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Sean Cahill - Consciousness & UFOs
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Sean Cahill is an investigative filmmaker and retired U.S. Navy Chief Master-at-Arms. He served on various vessels and duty stations abroad; most notably he was part of the bridge crew onboard the USS Princeton during the infamous Tic-Tac UAP incident with the USS Nimitz in 2004.
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Transcript
Introduction and Approach to Consciousness
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. Here we are again, Katie. How are you? Here we are. I'm doing good. How are you?
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm good. This is really strange because we recorded an interview with Rosco like, however, not that many hours ago, and it feels like a bit strange to be back all of a sudden. But I'm really glad that we're here live as well. Got a great guest. We have got a great guest. Good to see so many people as well in the live chat. Thank you so much for being here. As always, please keep the chat cool, calm and collected. I really appreciate that. You guys are normally very good at that. So thank you.
00:01:09
Speaker
Also, if you do have any questions throughout the interview, please pop them in capital letters. That gives me a better chance of seeing them. And I will try my best to ask them, but it depends on the relevancy and the way the conversation is flowing and all that good stuff. So thank you, guys. And let's get to it, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, please welcome a good friend, someone that I really look up to, and I can't wait for this conversation, guys. Put your hands together for Sean Cahill. Sean, how are you? I'm doing well, Vin. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Happy to have you here. Happy to be here. All right.
00:01:49
Speaker
So Sean, yeah, you know, when I spoke to you about setting up this interview, I wanted to come at it this time from a slightly different perspective and sort of talk a bit more about the consciousness and the kind of meditation aspect and its relationship to
Consciousness and Out-of-Body Experiences
00:02:02
Speaker
the phenomena. So I guess my first question is what does consciousness mean to you and especially when it does relate to the phenomena? I'm actually happy to say that I take it from a kind of selfish viewpoint because I've lived this whole life as Sean.
00:02:18
Speaker
I've had very few moments of not being Sean, so for me, consciousness is my Sean-ness. And so, for me, when I eventually found meditation studies and Buddhism and things that branch out from the ancient esoteric practices,
00:02:41
Speaker
The self was something I was familiar with because my shyness was something that I had been, I felt like that I had been working with and fighting my whole life, if that makes sense. So I think that that's the simplest way that I can sum up consciousness without going right to the Buddhist teachings and things like that.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, no, I make sense. And I think that a lot of people have that experience, especially when they're beginning this journey, right? They're looking into meditation for the first time, self consciousness for the first time. And I'm really curious to hear how that started for you, right? Everyone kind of has a different entry point. So what was yours? You know, I was interested in
00:03:31
Speaker
To be honest, again, this is not really flattering. I was interested in superpowers when I was young. I wanted all the superpowers. I liked the idea that we were more than this, and I wanted to be that. But it really wasn't until I had a heart attack back in 2012, and when they were placing the stent in my heart, I had an OBE.
Dreams, Fears, and Meditation Techniques
00:03:57
Speaker
And that really changed my perspective on things. I had gone up to the ceiling of this two-story room where they did the stent procedure, and I had watched the medical team place their feet on the armrest. And when my vein collapsed and removed the catheter,
00:04:15
Speaker
and then go to reinsert in the femoral artery. And they put their foot up on the armrest because they need to brace themselves for steady pressures. Yeah, it gives me the heebie-jeebies still. Oh, was that obvious? I watched all that from the ceiling looking down. And I wasn't freaking out. I wasn't thinking, oh, wow, there I am, or I'm out of my body. It was just very calm and casual, just kind of taking it in.
00:04:41
Speaker
But then when the procedure was over and they woke me up, I mentioned to them that I had gone up there and watched them extract the catheter. And they were quite surprised that I was able to describe it with such accuracy because I had been definitely unconscious. And so that took a while to really sink in. I would think about it now and again, think about it. And I didn't know what to do with the info until I started having
00:05:10
Speaker
this recurring lucid dream of my family and I on the highway and deciding to go across the Coronado Bridge. And as we got on the on-ramp, there was a problem with the truck in front of us. We ended up in a car accident and ended up going over the side of the bridge. And each time it felt it was this is where the dream was always the same and where I woke up. The car is going over the bridge. It's terrifying.
00:05:40
Speaker
but then suddenly I'm in like a yellow, like a cherry picker, like the guys work on the top of trees and power lines with, and it just tipped forward. And I was the only one there, the family wasn't there. It tipped forward and I was falling down towards what I assumed was the bay, but it was like a water tornado or a water spout. And I fell in the top of it and I fell and I kept falling. And in this dream, I finally realized, you know, I'm lucid and I'm terrified.
00:06:10
Speaker
But I finally realized, okay, hold on, I should have hit the water by now. What's going on? And that's where something else happens. And so that I never quite remembered. So these things were pretty powerful, the OBE and the lucid dream specifically, because I was quite lucid. I mean, it got to the point where I was just kind of falling down the
00:06:35
Speaker
thing you know bored wondering if it will be different this time and I couldn't figure out how to break out or anything like that back then so those that coupled with the next step was tinnitus now if not for the tinnitus I might just to put up might have just put up with the weirdness
00:06:55
Speaker
But the tinnitus was making me a jerk, even more of a natural jerk than I already was back then. And I was a pretty organic jerk, honestly. I had really hair triggers. But to remedy the tinnitus, I started using binaural beats.
Therapy, Boundaries, and Intuition
00:07:17
Speaker
And I didn't really know what they were for. I didn't know anything about Monroe or anything like that.
00:07:22
Speaker
And I remember that the first night that I really, that I felt what I would later understand is, I guess what people refer to as Hemi Sync or other things like that. I had decided to put some brown, I use an app that does not pay me to endorse them called White Noise. And I put some pink noise in the background this time specifically and actually in a gamma.
00:07:50
Speaker
frequency and I didn't know anything about frequencies either. So that's actually a pretty high one and a good one to start with. But I started humming with it and it was strange. The only way to describe it is kind of non-visual, non-verbal, but I felt like a bell went off in one ear, one went off up here and one went off here and you could just feel them connect. And when that resonance first happens, it's pretty profound.
00:08:20
Speaker
And at that exact same moment, like half a tree across from us. We were at Balboa Park at a corgi meetup. We had brought our dog up to Balboa Park. And like this giant tree just like cracked in half and fell onto the street. Didn't injure anyone. Like missed a jogger, missed a car that had just gone by. But at that moment that I felt all of that, that thing happened.
00:08:48
Speaker
And so those were big benchmarks for me to finally go, okay, what is this? What is all this? And how do you get there? And I wasn't in a position to do a lot of drugs. So I had to meditate.
00:09:07
Speaker
I mean, it sounds a lot like my experience, to be honest. I had an accidental OBE while using binaural beats as well, was not an experienced meditator, and it scared the hell out of me. And I think you've touched on this before, that at some point it becomes a bit of a, what do I do with this?
00:09:29
Speaker
you know, and where do I go? Especially if you're not, I wasn't a particularly religious person before, you know, so trying to figure out the path forward with that can be challenging. You mentioned though, in a previous interview that you eventually found ways to kind of cope with that over, almost overstimulation and then kind of use it. Could you speak a little bit about that and maybe for folks in the audience who are dealing with that right now?
00:09:57
Speaker
It wasn't easy at first. It was really, really hard and I thought I was losing my marbles. I got a therapist and I walked right in and told her everything. And that helped, but it didn't help in the ways that I needed. I needed to find some way to, I needed a volume dial or a tuning dial of some kind.
00:10:21
Speaker
And for me, I think it became finding out what was the difference between my fear and my intuition. And that took a long time. It took a long time and that
00:10:37
Speaker
I think for each of us involves our own just personal psychology, just regular old run of the mill life that we've led, you know, and whatever makes our inherent fears. You know, we can talk about, um, genetic, you know, markers for, or excuse me, fear, how it, how it's passed down through generate generational fear. Right.
00:11:00
Speaker
I had to get out of my own way. I had to really look at my own nonsense, my own BS. Where am I the trigger for other people? Where am I the toxic person? How am I the rainy day? And I'm not perfect. My wife will be the first person to tell you, but I'm not quite the same guy that I was 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. For me, it's been very cognitive.
00:11:24
Speaker
Nobody else did anything that made it better. Nobody told me anything that suddenly opened my eyes. I mean, a lot of the interactions I've had in the last few years have opened my eyes, but if anything, the last five years have given me too much information to the point where I have no idea what the hell is really going on at the end of the day.
00:11:48
Speaker
I know this is crazy for people who have anxiety and I've had anxiety my whole life. Yeah, harsh anxiety, panic attacks, emergency room visits, losing my business at work on other people, unfortunately. Two things happen. I just decided I don't care what happens and I'm not in charge of you anymore. And I'm not in charge of what happens to you. I'm only in charge of me.
Materialism vs Spirituality and UAP Studies
00:12:18
Speaker
And I started living in that space where it was like, I'm going to tick a lot of people off while I set these boundaries and while I figure out who I am. And that's another one because boundaries down a lot of people build their boundaries with one hand and hold a fist up.
00:12:33
Speaker
with the other, you know, they're just putting bricks down and saying, don't you come near here? And it's like, no, the boundaries are so people can come, come right up to them. They can, they can punch on them and beat on them and scream at them. And you get to sit over here calmly and say, no, thank you. Instead of kicking and screaming back. That was a huge help. But the, I hate to say that the, I had to put faith in my own intuition.
00:12:59
Speaker
that was the thing that really took me over the edge past the fear, was trusting myself and saying that these little physical triggers or little physical markers that I have are my body talking to me about something that it can't put into words. And I'm the one that has to put it into words for my body. And that kind of brings us to another point is I don't, like, this isn't me. I do feel like I reside
00:13:27
Speaker
not quite in this body, but I reside here with this body. We have a, I feel like the body and I have a union. I can take really good care of it and it'll last for a really long time. I can take really bad care of it and it'll still really last for a really long time, but it's gonna let me know the whole time that it doesn't wanna do it that way. Right. That's a good way to put it.
00:13:56
Speaker
And it recently told me, I've had enough. And I thought we already had this conversation. So. Yeah. I think it comes down to where do you fall? Are you a materialist? Or do you fall more into onto the spirit side? Like, I hate to say the polarity gets more narrow as time goes by in my life. And I'm able just to see the choices folks have made. I'm trying not to judge them for him anymore.
00:14:25
Speaker
because I really, in the last few years, I really felt like the universe has just taken me back to school and I've been humbled. But what do you do when you feel that way? You know, I mean, where do you go to build? I mean, you know, do you...
00:14:43
Speaker
So right now I'm just keeping the house clean, looking for a job, doing my thing, being good to my wife and kids, but there's nothing spectacular going on. I have to say that balance has taken a little bit of the adventure out of life because I'm like, okay, now I'm here for the ride. Yeah. So many of those points resonated with me about how different I was 10 years ago and how much I'm still learning and working on building myself as a person.
00:15:14
Speaker
Like you said, then taking it back to basics in a way, family, the things that really matter. And yeah, it's amazing how many things that really hit home then. So I appreciate that. So my next question, as this meditation journey has developed and you've probably gone deeper and done different types of meditation, maybe have you ever felt like you've had an experience where there was some alternative intelligence involved with you during a meditation?
00:15:44
Speaker
Yes. And it still happens on occasion in the same way. And I always find it fascinating that I think a lot of people that meditate understand a place that we might call the void, a dark, warm, safe place where your whole memory kind of comes and goes there. You can spend time very lucid, very conscious there. But as you're meditating, sometimes that drifts.
00:16:15
Speaker
But in the early times that I would find myself there, I would get this sense of faces, very large faces, kind of swooping into that place and going, what is this? Just kind of the idea that they were furrowing their brow, just getting a good look and then kind of going, oh, OK.
00:16:37
Speaker
and then going back out. And it was the strangest thing. It was right after hypnagogia would, if you've learned to body asleep, mind awake, if you've learned how to do that yoga nidra or the Monroe technique or other techniques, hypnagogia is a stage of falling asleep where there's a lot of, pardon me, it looks like fog is setting in. A gray fog is drifting through a blackness and sometimes it forms into shapes and other things. For me, it's mostly just a fog.
00:17:07
Speaker
And it either resolves in unconsciousness or lucidity afterward. And there's other things. There's a vibrational sensation and some other movement that you might sense. But right after that hypnagogia, for a long time, I would be back in what felt like I moved from that void place over to a side instance, just like I had been channeled over into a little waiting room of some kind.
00:17:38
Speaker
and that something would come and, um, and regard me there and look at me and kind of not handle me, but just check me out. And as time went by, I, that changed the experience changed. And then that stopped every once in a while. That still happens. Usually just when I'm daydreaming, um, when I was in the hospital recently from my heart, um, I think I just said that on air. Okay.
00:18:06
Speaker
I was in the hospital recently. I had a second heart attack. I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna talk about that today, but I'm not gonna act all weird about it. But I had for about a week that I was there, cause I picked up a staph infection when I was in the hospital as well. Every time I closed my eyes, it was just constant visuals of that, of people, it seemed to people stopping and being like, why are you looking at like stopping? As if I were like,
00:18:35
Speaker
a strange person sitting on the ground on the street and you walk by and you're like reading my sign or something. That's what it seemed like. Like they were, I was interrupting them for the life of me. I don't know what it was, but it stopped when I left the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Wow. Well, and we're, we're so happy that you're doing well now and everything's all right. Everything's great. Yeah. It was a, it was a, it was a blip. Basically I had a stent that failed.
00:19:03
Speaker
They replaced the stent, but I was in for a longer period of time because of the staph infection, but everything worked out. Gotcha. Well, we're so glad to hear that. And something you said actually triggered a memory in me. And a friend of mine had kind of challenged me to try the hemi-sync tapes. And one of the things I experienced, I only did them a few times because frankly, it was too intense for me. And one of the things I experienced that you kind of touched on was that feeling of being kind of channeled to another place at one point.
00:19:33
Speaker
for me at one point it was I heard a tone and I don't even know if the tone was in the in the tape or if it was something you know separate and it kind of I felt like pulled to another location and once I got there the the experience was different time wasn't linear it was choppy it was
00:19:52
Speaker
And like you said, someone came to regard you, similar thing. And I had never had an experience like that. And it completely shifted my view of non-human intelligence, of what's possible when it comes to meditation. And something that we know now when you're speaking about kind of the materialist versus other paradigms is that meditation can literally
00:20:17
Speaker
rewire your brain, right? You know, nothing but our intentional thought can influence matter. So you would think that the materialist paradigm there would already evaporate. But I'm really interested, given sort of the anecdotal evidence we have that the phenomenon can either manipulate matter or our perception of matter.
Collective Intent and Consciousness Experiments
00:20:39
Speaker
If you believe that, you know, in order to move the UAP conversation forward, we really need to dive deeper into some of this meditation research.
00:20:47
Speaker
I would completely agree with that. I think there are two sides to the UAP coin that we all have to kind of acknowledge. And that is, there is what we call a nuts and bolts side. There is a technological expression of aspects of these things we're talking about. But one is not always the other. And I think where we need to get to is that
00:21:18
Speaker
For the folks that haven't had an experience in their life, a personal, actual experience, not just taking something on faith because of a book or another person's anecdote, but once you've had that taste that, hey, I'm not here. I reside somewhere else. Excuse me. And I'm having this experience here now as me.
00:21:47
Speaker
And then you start thinking about, okay, what happens when I go to sleep at night? Where am I? Am I still me when I'm asleep? Is there a relevancy to that me? And how come the weird stuff really happens when I'm mostly happens when I'm asleep? And so that alone is just, it's not conclusive. It doesn't say where we are, what's going on. It just says that something's happening. Once we accept that,
00:22:12
Speaker
then I think it's pretty simple to say, well, okay, well, if I'm here and I'm physical and I'm natural and I made a matter and elements and fall under these laws, well, then so does everything else that's here. So if something wants to come here from somewhere else, it's gonna be made of stuff from here. You know, I feel like we're getting so simple, it sounds, it starts sounding complicated. But there is another place
00:22:42
Speaker
So the place I am has technology and matter. So I assume there's some kind of analog for that in another place. So once you marry those two concepts, I don't think it's that mind boggling that there is something here that might not be exactly what it presents as.
00:23:07
Speaker
I'm personally ready to find out we are the only indigenous life in this universe because I can't see any anywhere. And the mental gymnastics for the galactic war that's going on and the, I don't know, you know, all the things that people bring up of why, you know, everybody's hiding. And I'm like, well, we're not hiding, we're radiating like crazy.
00:23:35
Speaker
And everybody says, well, if we keep doing that, they're going to come get us. And I don't see them. But if you talk to somebody else, they're like, oh, they're here. They already got us. And I don't mean to be facetious, but I was a trained professional crime scene investigator and forensic investigator, and I was a problem solver.
00:23:56
Speaker
And so coming to this, coming to ufology with that acumen, not as a believer, I'm also a believer because I'm going through it, but I don't believe what I'm going through. And I don't take it at face value for what I'm seeing and experiencing. And I'm not to the bottom of the story yet.
00:24:16
Speaker
So once we marry those two things, I don't think any of it, I think all of it makes sense. Of course the government's been studying it. Of course they're reticent to talk about it. It's really weird. And when you get down to like, if one person can bend a spoon, what can 50 do? What can 100 do? What can a country, a planet do? And that weirds a lot of people out. That's it for them. The spoon thing has been one way to find out whether you're still my friend or not.
00:24:47
Speaker
is to bring the spoon out and talk about it, because some people just, nope, nope, all done, you know.
00:24:55
Speaker
So I don't like to talk about it, but about 10 years ago, I got bored one night and I watched a YouTube video and I snapped a spoon in half and I kept it for about 10 years. And I mean, it was just no effort. It was just like it was butter, you know, and I never told anyone because you're right. It's like that litmus test of are you able to believe that things are weirder than we give them credit for, you know?
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. And what are you going to do once you believe it? That's the thing. For me, it was bury it for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. See, now I'm going to go every time I'm holding a spoon now, I'm just going to look around and be like, let's have a little go. For the record, I haven't been able to do it since. So until I went to the Monroe Institute, I used to carry a very heavy gauge spoon around in my shaving kit.
00:25:49
Speaker
And I just, every once in a while, I'd just be somewhere and I'd grab it and I'd just unconsciously walk around with it and then look at it and be like, oh, that's still a spoon. Were you ever able to bend it? Have you gotten there yet? So not until I, so at, um, I guess, uh, we'll talk about Monroe, the Monroe Institute. Um, last year in May I got invited, um,
00:26:17
Speaker
via, Lou gave me a call, hooked me up with a couple of folks. He got invited to go, couldn't go. I don't think the person that organized it is advertising himself at the moment, but a doctor from, oh geez, Purdue? Shucks, I can't remember his college now, but I guess that's fine if I'm not gonna say who he was.
00:26:38
Speaker
But he put it together. He got a bunch of us on the phone and zooming and stuff. Colonel John Alexander, Chris Bledsoe. Geez, I should have pulled the list out. Randall Nickerson, folks we'd recognize from Twitter, Sean Eisborne-Hargan, XO Academia,
00:27:03
Speaker
Um, Joe McMonigle came down, made an appearance and talked to us. Um, why somebody's going to kill me for not mentioning them for sure. Um, but we had a lot of folks there and almost across the board, we were experiencers. There were a few people who had never seen it, never seen anything, had anything weird.
00:27:27
Speaker
anything like that. But there were people that were some people that were placed high in government in some countries were friendly with that wanted to get a good look at what this was all about, what these what folks like us were going through. And we were a very
00:27:44
Speaker
wide ranging group of, of, of experiencers. We had, um, a famous television medium. Um, a few other people, we had some, um, some folks that are expert at collecting, um, technical data with cameras and radar, you know, uh, science related folks. Um, sorry, we, we started out talking about this because we're talking about bending the spoon. So another person that was there, um, Oh God, I'm horrible with names.
00:28:16
Speaker
Oh, Sean, what's your last name? He's a telekinesis. He did telekinesis for a long time. He was well known for that on YouTube. He does so much more. His website is Mind Possible, and I'll remember his last name in a minute.
00:28:35
Speaker
But Sean and a couple of other folks were there, held a class on telekinesis, spoon bending. We intentionally, the 20 or so of us, tried to move a soccer ball together. No results. Sean McNamara. Sean McNamara. Yeah, Sean McNamara is a fantastic guy. He just recently wrote a really good book on cultivating
00:29:00
Speaker
psilocybin. He lives in Colorado where it's legal. So it's a fantastic book. But that's a whole nother show and a whole nother topic. So we had they taught us two techniques for spoon bending in general for one was subtle and one was more energetic. And in between the two,
00:29:21
Speaker
The first technique that we did, I had zero results, and I could already tell I was getting frustrated. I was feeling feelings of envy. I could tell that I wanted to feel special. I look out for those things, and I'm like, okay, well, you can't play if you're going to be that way. I was disenchanted.
00:29:42
Speaker
But then she brought out some pendulums. And pendulums were something that I had studied along with Tarot and other things early on as subconscious access modalities, wanting to understand them. And I'd had success and understood how a pendulum worked and was able to tell my nonsense from the intuitive side of it.
00:30:04
Speaker
So she said, we all had a fork and a spoon. She said, ask the fork if it'll bend for you, maybe just this once. And the fork said, nope. And with the pendulum. And so again, downtrodden. And knowing, the worst part is sitting there knowing I'm doing it wrong, because I'm letting my emotions in. And I know I'm going to fail, because I'm disappointed.
00:30:26
Speaker
you know, that kind of thing. I'm letting it get to me. And I asked the spoon, will you just this once, you know, and I literally like my interior attitude was literally like really like those. And the spoon said, sure, just this once. I mean, that was the message I got back. And I was like, okay. Oh, okay. All right. So we got it. We went about it. And she was saying, you know, build up your intent. And I decided, um,
00:30:55
Speaker
In fact, I should grab the spoon. Is that okay? Special guest appearance from the spoon. I threw it away like a year ago. I was like, this is stupid. Why am I holding onto this? I'm going to go and get one tonight and just be like,
00:31:14
Speaker
Oh wow. So I wasn't happy just bending it in half. Cause I knew I could, I knew I was strong enough to do it. And I had already, I had snapped off the tine of one of the, on the fork. And I didn't believe that. Like you said, you snapped yours. I was like, I just broke it. I'm just way stronger than I think. See I'm weak. So that wasn't a problem. So I, I, I pinched the bowl of the spoon and I pinched the end. And I was like, I'm going to, I want to twist it.
00:31:44
Speaker
And if it really does, and we had just watched a video that Yuri Geller had sent specifically to us. He was gonna zoom with us, but something happened where he had a scheduling difficulty. So he just had somebody turn his camera around and film the video. But he's just, I mean, he's in a shop with thousands and thousands of bent spoons. And I mean, unless you really think he's surrounded by hundreds of pounds of gallium or whatever, he's got something going on.
00:32:14
Speaker
I was like, I have to do this in a subtle way. It has to go molten like it looks like it goes for him or I'm never gonna believe it. So sum it up, get all the intent. And we called it a gorilla technique. You're gonna jump up in the air. And when you're in the air, you're gonna shout, you're gonna tell it, you're gonna be banned. You're gonna, you know, you are telling it. You are a gorilla and you are powerful and you're gonna use all of your monkey mind to do it. And I landed in this.
00:32:44
Speaker
I don't know what to say about that. This is not a, this is a high quality piece of cutlery. And it did, it bent. It did something I haven't been able to do again, no matter how hard I try. It doesn't tell me that I'm psychic or have telekinesis or any of that. It tells me that human intent has influence over matter. That's all it tells me. And I can accept that.
00:33:13
Speaker
Not to take anything away from you being able to do that, but being in a place where other people were building their own intent, could in some way you have gathered extra energy from other people? Perhaps. Yeah. I mean, I would imagine that's possible. It's frightening if you look at it from a certain way. And then again, it makes a lot of sense when you think about how often we all gather in a place surrounding an individual in front of a microphone or on a stage.
00:33:43
Speaker
right and they're the same people over and over again so that's a that's pretty heavy yeah like i said i wasn't taking anything away from you i'm truly no no no no i just thinking about you know this being putting myself in that place and i i automatically imagined other people in almost in a line doing something similar with this buildup of something around us all i don't know yeah no i like a lot of folks who have
00:34:09
Speaker
experience this stuff my Well, there's two ways to go a lot of folks dive in Believe everything and then you end up like we've all seen that video the guy running down the beach at the lady You know and they're trying to put up their chi walls and I mean, yeah, we can't help but laugh I mean, I believe in chi or prana, you know energy But I don't think I can stop a linebacker But you know not at all. I can't I can't stop it
00:34:38
Speaker
But again, what if we knew what we were doing?
Intuition in Science and Societal Change
00:34:42
Speaker
We're wishing right now, but I've sat around a lot and I still can't figure out what's the first thing I should do now that I know this. Other than try to share the story pragmatically, get other people to chill out, don't go too woo. You get inspired, you get inspired. We're all in different parts on our journey and sometimes inspiration takes us on wild goose chases and sometimes it leads to brilliance.
00:35:11
Speaker
there's something to this that matters and the fact that none of our institutions teach it none of our institutions teach any kind of like the word intuition is still something that that's not a real that's not real you know we've all got it but don't trust it oh you trust yours well I don't trust mine
00:35:30
Speaker
Nah, I think we've all had enough synchronicities. A lot of us have. The people who are having this conversation have had enough synchronicities and then went and did a little bit of research and have had enough conversations to say there's enough going on here we should organize and we should apply science and pragmatism to this. You know, of course we need an emotional side, but we need
00:35:53
Speaker
It's like we're back to that point where we need to remarry physics and philosophy and science and religion back into one thing, which is the study of reality again. Not just into these balkanized groups of, no, my God's better than yours.
00:36:09
Speaker
my theory is better than yours and my lack of evidence is way better than your lack of evidence. Well, I mean, that's a perfect segue into what I was going to ask you about is I just finished reading Unbelievable. It's a book that kind of covers the, the history of the Duke's parapsychology program that started up, I believe in the 50s. And, you know, one of the things I was struck by in it was,
00:36:37
Speaker
how ubiquitous this type of research was early on, right? You know, you had Duke doing it, you had Harvard doing it, you had the University of Virginia getting their hands into the matter. And that's obviously taken a bit of a step back in recent years. And, you know, speaking of, you know, psychic telekinesis, ESP, whatever you want to call it, there is
00:37:02
Speaker
a pretty hefty body of academic evidence supporting it. Now you can argue about the methods and conclusions, but what's really interesting is it was actually done in a very methodical statistical way. There were even actually the anthropologist Margaret Mead was a big proponent of this research and pointing out how sound the methodology was. And so my question is, how do you think
00:37:29
Speaker
we address the fact of what you said that our institutions aren't teaching this. How do we go back and rebuild this body of knowledge in a way that it doesn't get shelved for another 20 years? How do you have a revolution in society without the revolution? How do you have a large body of people who are otherwise
00:37:57
Speaker
okay with the status quo and frightened into being relatively docile to give up everything they have. I'm not a, I don't like labels, so I'll throw out a few that I don't feel, I'm not a prepper, I'm not a constitutionalist, I'm not a sovereign person kind of guy, but I'm aware of facts. I know that our educational system was developed
00:38:27
Speaker
by those in power who wanted good workers. I understand that. And I think if you had been anyone looking at the world at that time, you might have even said, you know what? That's a good thing for us right now. That's what we need. I don't know if you know you're in the Industrial Revolution when it's happening. But they were in the middle of it, and they were like, yeah, that's what we need. We need progress was the word. But we've somehow gotten rid of that word, progress.
00:38:54
Speaker
You know, we took that awesome jump in materialism, successful materialism, and we did great things with it, and we did some horrible things with it. But we didn't, we chose not to highlight the other aspects of us. I can't help but see a little bit of a purposefulness in that.
00:39:20
Speaker
the 60s and 70s, even though the free love movement and the hippies obviously didn't win and apparently didn't learn anything since now they're still voting like their parents did. But we didn't fix anything just by having everybody say how it should be.
00:39:43
Speaker
You know, and nothing, I shouldn't say nothing changed. There's people who have built lives on aspects of social change that did occur. And I don't want to, they dedicated, people lost their lives for those. I don't want to say nothing changed. A lot of things changed. But we're not at a place yet where
00:40:05
Speaker
a human being, any human being on this earth, on this planet has the same rights as any other given human being or has the same expectation of safety or respect or anything like that. Why not? Well, I think honestly, this will turn so many people up, but we forgot to love each other. We forgot to take care of our neighbors. And we just kept looking for ways to progress and succeed.
00:40:32
Speaker
But we didn't bring our heart, we didn't bring our minds along with us. And it's sad, because you can look at, you can see it. And you can see the amount of people that don't know what's going on, that only take their worldview from their electronics, essentially from their television, their phone, their computer.
00:40:53
Speaker
And even those that will go a little bit further and pick up a book here and there, and I don't mean to be condescending like that and say it that way, but not a lot of people are reading anymore or going beyond what's given to them. Even at that point, you're still not getting the whole story. But we lose most folks at that point because they get angry. Their rage gets there and they go, oh my God, we've really been manipulated in and stepped on and held back.
00:41:23
Speaker
And nobody wants to listen to the person yelling in the elevator. So they don't get heard. And I think we all kind of know that. So it's like, who will be the person to stand up to finally strike that chord with all of us? What will be the event that has us say no more? I thought we've had 20 of those just in the last five years.
00:41:48
Speaker
Um, you and me both looking back at the way the George Floyd event unfolded. Yeah. I'm so scarred over at this point. Um, you know, my, my wife's a, my wife is a speech therapist. She works in the schools and we constantly talk about how there have now at this point, the idea of there have been more shootings and days in the year. Yeah.
00:42:14
Speaker
That's got to be the last straw, please. Could it be the last straw? Children should have been the last straw, but can just the blatant idiocy of these numbers be the last straw? And the fact that this just isn't happening anywhere else. It's not. And the idea that we can't, as what I would call an American family still come to the table,
00:42:39
Speaker
and go, can we do it for the kids? Anyway, that's politics. That's not the consciousness stuff we want to talk about. That's another day. Yeah. No, but I feel you, buddy. I really do. It can be tough. Vinny, I only can imagine what it looks like as an outsider looking in
00:43:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's hard to comprehend how these things keep happening and nothing is getting done because you get so many people. I won't go on about it, but all we see is people defending the Constitution and the right to bear arms and things like that. That's what's coming across the pond a lot more than just stop to stop. Find another way. You know, anyway, yeah, that is another conversation for another time, but I appreciate it being brought up and
00:43:35
Speaker
So let's shift the conversation slightly, Sean, because something we heard about a few months ago that was flying around Twitter and other places was a supposed meeting you had with one lady Gaga. And I just wondered if you could expand on that and give us the story. Are you guys best friends now?
00:43:53
Speaker
No. I did avoid becoming her enemy. But I have to be honest with you, I did not get to meet her. Everybody else that was there did. But Lou and I had been asked by Gary Nolan to, and Lou, Chris Mellon, and I had been asked by Gary Nolan to speak at a
00:44:17
Speaker
the Parker Foundation dinner that he was at with Sean Parker. They have an oncology foundation that is cancer research. Very, very illustrious list of people who donate to the, who are part of the Parker Foundation and who donate to it.
00:44:38
Speaker
Um, the people that I was sitting with that evening were Sean Parker and his wife, um, Lou Jacques Vallee, um, Steve Jobs son. I can't remember his name anymore after a year and a half. Um, and let's see, uh, there were a couple of Nobel prize winners at the table. Lady Gaga was at the table behind us. My wife was at the table behind me. She was at, uh, her chair was right behind me. So I could reach back and grab her, but, um,
00:45:07
Speaker
That night, Gary outed himself for the first time as having worked on these programs. And so the first people that he got to tell were some of his colleagues in oncology and in academia as it should be.
UAP Experiences and Media Influence
00:45:22
Speaker
And they got to hear from the horse's mouth what Gary had been working on these programs and that he had knowledge about them and understanding. And then we talked about our parts. When we were done, Lou said to me, hey, Sean, come here.
00:45:37
Speaker
And I made a beeline right for him. He was with this little Italian lady. And I didn't look at her. I just told him, no, man, I gotta go use the bathroom. And he's like, no, come here for a second. And I'm like, no. And I walked right at him and went around him.
00:45:55
Speaker
and went about four or five doors down where there was nobody. And then I nervously threw up in the bushes on the side of a building. Because the whole thing just had me nervous. This was not my scene. That was way more opulent than I was used to. Everybody's looking at me and asking me all these big questions. I got back and he's like, hey man, what was that? And I go, what do you, I didn't feel good. I had to go use the bathroom. He goes, well, you just blew off Lady Gaga. And I'm like,
00:46:24
Speaker
Like the one person I wanted to meet. So yeah, I never, I never, I didn't, didn't meet her. I guess she was, she was in, still in, um, had the hair and the general look of the, um, geez, what movie was it? Like Versace or something like that. Some fashion movie. Um, I don't know who it was, but she had just done that. And so she still, she didn't look like Gaga. And, um, so I didn't recognize her, but yeah, that's, that's that story.
00:46:52
Speaker
Wow. But she was into UAP apparently, right? Well, I don't, yeah, she had a lot of, apparently she wanted to ask me some questions about my experience. She'd been talking, she's very interested in it. Without giving, without talking about anyone's specific personal stories, I did talk to so many people that night, well-placed folks in both
00:47:14
Speaker
government, society, entertainment, et cetera, who are all experiencers. And I have not been a fan of that word over the years, but I haven't come up with a better one to we're having an experience. Right. So I haven't found a better one to replace it with. So I just have to give in. But weirdos.
00:47:32
Speaker
The amount of really well-educated, lucid, cogent people who have had daylight interaction with whatever the phenomenon is, is a little ridiculous when you get down to it, because it really makes you wonder about some of the stories we hear about government and politicians who may or may not have had abduction experiences, for lack of a better word.
00:47:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's remarkable when you actually start lifting the stigma. Apologies.
00:48:04
Speaker
how many people do share details about this. I mean, one of the things that really struck me when you were speaking on a recent interview also was how often we kind of forget about them or just kind of set them aside. Maybe it's a psychological coping mechanism, I don't know. But you mentioned that you had had kind of a series of different experiences from the metal basketballs that were, I guess,
00:48:30
Speaker
20 feet or so to the green orbs to the black triangles and and that you would experience at least on one occasion kind of just forgetting about it. Do you think that's something that is intentional with the phenomenon? Do you think it's just a product of our our psychology and how we cope with it? What are your thoughts on that? I think
00:48:51
Speaker
even though I'm not a fan of duality and want to get away from it, it's useful. There's two sides to this coin as well. If we want to think of it benevolently, I'm still frightened of the phenomenon. And what I mean by that is if I go sit outside and I will myself to imagine what it would be like if a craft came down and somebody got off and came up and talked, I end up frightened, excited, but frightened.
00:49:21
Speaker
Now, that doesn't mean that you couldn't tranquilize me to the point where I could still have a conversation and be a useful person to communicate with. But I know I'm frightened. And I also know that if I did see all of that today, I'd be a blabber-mouthed idiot when I was done if I remembered everything. I really would be. And I think given all we've been through in the last X amount of years and the fact that we're still here, I think I'd risk losing my family.
00:49:52
Speaker
I've kept it together, even though it's been weird. And it's been pretty weird at times. This, this was not an easy thing to bring home and have people go, you did that. Give that to you, but you did it. Um, but then again, you've got Colonel John Alexander saying,
00:50:11
Speaker
recently on a podcast that his team had utilized neuro-linguistic programming to place the idea that an abduction had occurred in a subject's mind. So we know that manipulation is possible. And if the manipulation causes you to question your memory, now the origin of that memory is a question.
00:50:39
Speaker
So a lot of people, again, with that duality, fall one of two ways. They fall over into the world. The aliens are protecting me from something that might hurt me otherwise. And you've got the folks that are falling over on the other side that go, no, it's all brainwashing from the government. And as with most of these things, somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies. It bothers me that we can,
00:51:08
Speaker
If you've, if you've taken an interest in psychology and group dynamics and things like that, if you've ever seen the, um, there's a very famous video that's shown of people playing basketball.
00:51:19
Speaker
There's a bunch of movement. It's very, very dynamic. And in the middle of it, a person in a gorilla suit walks right through. Yep. You miss it. And most of us watch that the first time and we don't see the gorilla. The blue dress meme a couple of years ago on TikTok where we were all perceiving. It is not blue. It's gray. It's gray, right? Or pink? No, it's white and gold. White and gold. That's the one. You can sit there and change the color.
00:51:46
Speaker
Well, really? Yeah, you can't. And yeah, that should tell us a lot not enough to go I got it. I know who I know who's doing it. But it should tell us that we're easily manipulated. Yeah. Again, why am I so easily manipulated? And what can I do about it? Is there anything that I can do to counteract that? Yeah.
00:52:16
Speaker
I don't know. It's worrisome. I don't want what we call a bad state actor to have access to this kind of information. I don't want them to know that a series of lights and sounds and frequencies can completely change the mood and tone of a large group of human beings.
00:52:39
Speaker
I mean, we've all been frightened at some point of the idea of subliminal influencing and things like that. But the fact is, is it's on our televisions. It's a part of our advertising, whether it's what we have been taught to see as subliminal, the blatant backward masking, like the Beatles that everybody was freaked out about. They were just being artists. But nanosecond flashes of images can affect your impulse buying.
00:53:07
Speaker
And the way things are presented, songs are more moving when vowels are used in the rising choruses and things like that. Most folks don't know there's only like six chord progressions on the radio for the last 25 years. You've been buying the same songs over and over again. Again, what do we do with that? I turned my TV off. I watch,
00:53:35
Speaker
I use it for pure entertainment at this point. I got rid of a lot of my apps. I'm not talking about some bro stuff like delete your Facebook, go to the gym. But at the same time, are you using your tech or is your tech using you?
00:54:00
Speaker
Are you living to just keep paying Apple and Samsung? And, you know, is that why you're living to buy their products and to wear them and to support them? I mean, yeah, I'll try. Again, I have to stay away from the politics, but I can't help but say we have we have people that took a political candidate and made them made them an idol.
00:54:22
Speaker
You know, we never did that before. You know, we liked Ike, but not that much. It was like not love. Yeah. Yeah. So everything's become, I hate to, again, we're a broken record. Everything's become a product. Now you can label me a hippie and you don't have to listen to me anymore. But what happened? You know, there's a dichotomy right now that has no future to it.
00:54:50
Speaker
that is just chaotic. I don't know, it's a chaotic avalanche. Unless at some point, like Vin said, we just stop. We stop being jerks. Everybody just says, okay, what do you need from me? I haven't seen our leaders say, what do you need from me in a long time?
00:55:16
Speaker
So what do we do? You know, there's the three of us. We, I guess you and I've got San Diego County covered. Then I'll take care of Great Britain. Got to start somewhere though. You know, start in your household, start in your neighborhood. And that's, and that's true though. You do. And that your household is the best place you can start. If you can heal your home, if everybody went home and healed their home, we'd be, it'd be an amazing tomorrow. But,
00:55:46
Speaker
So many people are too hurt. So many people are going to wait at home and say, no, come heal me. Right. So that's true. You know, I was very conscious, no pun intended, about the way this interview would flow and the things we talk about as to not sort of delve too deeply into specific UFO news and current events. So I'll kind of flip the question and say, has there been anything that's
00:56:14
Speaker
you've been following or kept your interest in the past six months, for example, that has cropped up in the community or in, you know, in the community that you think is worth discussing, mentioning, or something that maybe piqued your interest. Well, I think we all kind of went as in the Navy, we'd say high and right on the, on the balloon issue. Oh yeah. I think folks are, they take the product that they're given and they make a conclusion.
00:56:43
Speaker
A lot of times you track it back a little bit. And what's the origin of that thing? Why is it happening?
00:56:50
Speaker
And while I've said I'm not a fan of people saying, why now are UAP? A year ago, people would say, why now? And I'd say, man, because we've been working our butts off. I mean, Vin knows. We worked together. Vin was part of what we called Skyfort East until we shut Skyfort down. Because we worked our butts off. We worked our butts off to get to say five words to some people on occasion and to get to say five more later on. So it wasn't just now. You might be seeing it now.
00:57:19
Speaker
But the balloon thing is pretty simple. Everything we've all been working on for the last X amount of years finally came to fruition with our defense apparatus, NORAD, et cetera, removing certain filters and certain guidelines on what was reported, how things were detected,
Humanity's Journey with UAP and Future Discoveries
00:57:38
Speaker
et cetera. And what immediately happened? There's a balloon here, there's a balloon there, there's a thing here, there's something stopped over here, what's going on?
00:57:44
Speaker
Now, the first things we got pictures of were a prosaic balloon, a large weather balloon type balloon with solar panels and some kind of collection apparatus underneath. And then after that, we got stories, anecdotal eyewitness testimony from plenty of good observers about shapes and speed and location.
00:58:14
Speaker
And then somebody started muddying the water. Somebody's anonymous person said, we think it's Chinese tech with anti-gravity. It's like, hold on a second. All we know right now is that we turn the lights on. And when the roaches scattered, the biggest slowest roaches were the ones that we got pictures of and that we saw and that we stepped on. Everything with capability got the hell out of the way. And or it's going to start showing up a lot more and getting reported a lot more.
00:58:45
Speaker
People keep defaulting to we wanna know, we need to know, we have a right to know. All of those things are all true, but the apparatus is not set up for you to know, not anywhere near immediately. So anything that was of interest, you're not gonna hear about it unless it has a political gain for the administration or the military to make it public. So if there was an octagonal five observable UAP in the Yukon or somewhere else,
00:59:13
Speaker
I don't think we're gonna get that info yet because we're still seeing portions of Congress and the Senate being educated for the very first time that this is even real. So to drop a big bomb like that on everybody immediately, I think people would, I don't know. We're gonna fight the whole time until the day that we are walking amongst whatever this is,
00:59:43
Speaker
without fear and with as much as complete understanding, people are gonna wonder every day until then if this is Project Bluebeam. Is this governmental manipulation? Is this China's version of Project Bluebeam? Is it the global conglomerate of carpet salesmen? I don't know, whoever you think runs the world, is it them?
01:00:11
Speaker
And we can't help that. And I think it's a good place for us to be suspicious of that because we are finally at a place where the technology exists between drones, holograms, NLP, phones in your pocket, flash mob mentality. It's a scary time for people to try to pull the wool over our eyes. But that's a side to the fact that this phenomenon has been here present
01:00:40
Speaker
for all of our history. I'm completely confident in saying that. So again, what are we dealing with here? Well, we're dealing with humanity, which we're stuck with every day of the week, and their humanity's machinations and greed. But we're also stuck with humanity's compassion, intelligence, ingenuity, love, and ability to transcend. We're still here.
01:01:10
Speaker
I don't know how many asteroids have hit us. I don't know how many tidal waves or crustal displacements or other things that everybody worries about have happened before. We've gone down to around 100, they think, at some point in South Africa. 100 human beings, as we call them. And now we know that we're all hybrids. Every single one of us is a hybrid.
01:01:32
Speaker
There's no one here that's not a hybrid of different hominids, whether it's Neanderthal, Promagnan, Denisovan, you know, etc. So this the old world thinking that races exist in a fashion that's useful.
01:01:53
Speaker
the fact that the out of Africa theory, all of these are the theories about how exactly things went that paint a Eurocentric picture of the world. We're safe to get rid of them now.
01:02:06
Speaker
We're safe to get rid of that Eurocentrism. We're safe to embrace the fact that India has a longer, richer history than Europe did. We're able to look into China and see just how technologically incredible they were when the rest of us were dealing with the Black Plague and how Islam basically saved science. And started universities.
01:02:30
Speaker
Absolutely. And how all of these religions that we come and go with have been the aggressor, the oppressor, the victim, the savior at some point in the time that they've existed. At the end of all of it, what does it say? We're all the same. We're just different painted containers full of the same water, pointing at each other and going, you're different because I only see the blue. Well, I'm full of water just like you.
01:03:00
Speaker
You know, and that's, it gets preachy, but celebrating diversity, that's what celebrating diversity is. And it shouldn't frighten people to have more variety of different things that can interact with each other and communicate people and things that can communicate with each other. That tells us more about this environment. The more eyes we have on this, the closer we're going to get to actually understanding where we are.
01:03:31
Speaker
I think that's the key to everything. So whether if you're a materialist and you say, what is the nuts and bolts value of UAP and how can I use it to succeed and dominate from a nationalistic sense, or whether you look at it and say, wow, man, where are they coming from? Who are they? What do they think? What do they know? Why do they want to talk to us? Both of those sides exist. And we have to stop pretending that the other folks don't exist and that they don't have a right to exist.
01:04:01
Speaker
That's been the hardest part for me is, and that sounds harsh, but the idea that the dissenting opinion that you believe is wrong, does it have a right to keep being heard? There was a time when I was certainly wrong and I wanted the right to continue to be heard. What a fantastic answer.
01:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I want to be really mindful of your time because we're very lucky to have you. But I do want to ask, so we spoke just a little bit about the recent past. What are you looking forward to in this year? Do you think, is there anything coming up that is going to tickle your fancy or that we should be looking out for? I saw that smile. Yeah.
01:04:55
Speaker
I think a lot of good things in a historical way for the record are gonna occur this summer. That's the closest I can come with that one. A lot of people have been given the power and the safety to use their voice for the first time. Now, I think people should look forward probably to seeing a lot more pictures of UAP.
01:05:24
Speaker
And the reason that I say that is because I have under some, I have some good information that there are some private groups that have correctly determined a way to capture UAP on, on photo. Um, I'm not a hundred percent on board with it yet. I'm still waiting to get some equipment back and to verify it myself, but, um, I have a feeling we're about between the deep, the new deep fake.
01:05:53
Speaker
stuff being the new deepfake being very accessible and affordable the the the audio fakes now and the fact that we have a perfect storm here i don't like it a bit with the filters coming off at norad we're going to see all kinds of crap scattered across the radar now with the the ability to deepfake being at the 13 year old wallet level
01:06:21
Speaker
It's gonna be really, we're gonna really need audio visual experts to be telling us the real from the not real now. And it's kind of gotten to be too much all at once. So I think we need, as time goes by, we need to be careful. Don't jump to conclusions.
01:06:40
Speaker
Remember that there are people out there for whatever reason, whether they're actively hiding something that they know about the phenomenon or whether it's just a cognitive block or maybe they're just jerks, you know, and work for a lousy newspaper. I don't know. But the fact the fact is, is that not everybody out there is going to see the forest for the trees. They're going to cherry pick this thing. They're going to come at it emotionally. And we don't want any of that.
01:07:08
Speaker
We want pragmatic, scientific, observational, non-biased information on something that we don't fully understand. There you go. That's great.
01:07:23
Speaker
So we could have done this in person today. So I'm just saying that next time, so we could have just been hanging out at the bar. I would love it. And then he could have been in the studio. I mean, we got, what do you got, what do you got going on later today? I mean, it's, it's, it's my daughter's birthday. So I actually, happy birthday. That's exciting.
01:07:44
Speaker
Big 19. Oh, that's amazing. Amazing. Have fun with the family then. That's going to be great. Yes. Yes. Green barbecue tonight. Oh, that sounds good. That sounds really good. Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate every time we speak is fantastic. I appreciate you, what you've done and just being a friend means the world. So thank you so much. Same here. It's really a pleasure to get to talk about these things. You too, Katie. We don't, we don't get to share these things.
01:08:13
Speaker
in an environment like this where it's fully safe, where everybody is listening and where we have something to give back and we don't feel judged. So I really appreciate the ability to get to share these experiences. Thanks, guys. Fantastic. Thank you so much. And to everyone in the live chat, thank you so much for being here. I'm sorry if I didn't get around to all your questions. If you did donate, I saw a couple of pop up. Thank you so much for the support. I really appreciate it.
01:08:37
Speaker
Katie, thank you for being such a wonderful co-host as well. It's been great. We've had a real day of it. Two days for you, but time zones and all that. Yeah, guys. Yeah, me too. But guys, we have a premiere of our interview with Ross Coulthard coming up this Saturday. So check that out. But for now, guys, thank you once again, and we'll see you soon. Take care. Goodbye.