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The Tortured Listeners Department
325 Plays10 months ago
This week the boys discuss their initial thoughts on Taylor Swift’s highly anticipated project: The Tortured Poets Department. Stay tuned as POP THEORY recaps the good, the bad, the ugly- and all in between!
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Transcript
Introduction & Taylor Swift Album Release
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Pop Theory. It is Zach Rickel, a.k.a. a functioning gay, one of your hosts and Jeff Beach, your other host, your other host. Today's kind of a really big day. It's a big day for culture. It's a big day for the Swifties. It's a big day for it's a big day for America. It's a big day for
00:00:26
Speaker
people who may lack a little bit of personality. Right. Oh, I'm just kidding. But you know what? I mean, you know, yeah, Taylor Swift released a new album today. Not only that, not only did she release a new album, she gave us a surprise. 2 a.m. Very a la Midnight's. Here's the Deluxe.
00:00:53
Speaker
version with 31 songs. Thirty one songs like it's absolutely insane. I.
00:01:03
Speaker
was, so, you know, the album leaked online. I think it was Wednesday. And I may or may not have participated in that listen. And, you know, I have to say that first batch of tracks did not captivate me very much. And then, so then I felt really overwhelmed when I woke up this morning and saw that there was an additional 16 tracks. Is it 16 or 15? 15, additional 15 tracks.
00:01:32
Speaker
Wow. Like Homegirl had a lot of time on her hands, apparently. I was so overwhelmed. I was I've already been burnt out from Taylor Swift as an artist for a while now after midnight. So for me to see that my immediate thought was we do not need 31 songs. And when I saw that it was two hours and some change, I'm like, OK, like it
00:02:02
Speaker
I hate starting it off this way already, but it was like, as soon as I hit play, I'm like, this feels like a chore. Like I have to get through two hours and some change. It was work. It was act, it was not, I would say it was not like an easy listening experience.
Taylor Swift's Pop Stardom & Album Sales
00:02:19
Speaker
It was work to get through all 31 tracks and it's glory.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah. And let's scale back for a second because Taylor Swift, we've kind of addressed this already on the podcast several times, but Taylor Swift experienced something exceptionally rare with her celebrity and her pop stardom when she released Midnight's back in, gosh, what was that? Was that 2022?
00:02:48
Speaker
uh October 2022 she kind of reclaimed like that superstar mania status that she had when 1989 dropped when 1989 dropped that was like peak at that time that was like peak Taylor Swift untouchable right
00:03:05
Speaker
And then she went through the reputation of it all and then, you know, was kind of not that she was flopping, but she just, you know, wasn't there wasn't this mania surrounding her. And for whatever reason, this mania started happening again when midnight hit. And then it went in to even more.
00:03:23
Speaker
of a frenzy when she announced her era's tour. And ever since then, Taylor Swift has been this like unstoppable commercial force. You know that if she's going to drop music, you know that it's going to be an event. You are going to expect astronomical, unheard of first week sales. No one can touch this. And I have to say, so at work the other day, we were kind of talking about the out that like lead up to the album and we were all starting to take guesses on like how many albums she's going to sell in the first week.
00:03:53
Speaker
because insiders are starting to say that there's going to be, it's going to be like unheard of numbers kind of, at least for this era. And so, yeah. And so we were all kind of taking bets. And I said, and my number is, I'm saying 2.7 million. That's what I'm throwing out there right now.
00:04:10
Speaker
And one of my coworkers, who's not very much in the know as far as the music world or how it all works, he was like, that doesn't seem very high.
Fanbase & Cultural Impact
00:04:20
Speaker
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. In today's day and age, if you sell 200,000 copies of an album, you're doing good. It is unheard of. I think you can only count on maybe within 20 different artists or people who've sold a million records or more.
00:04:39
Speaker
in their first week. And the majority of those people is Taylor Swift, like the majority of those albums, I should say is Taylor Swift. This mania is wild right now.
00:04:49
Speaker
So that all said, sorry, I was like, scale back. And I just, you know, I'm I'm personally fascinated by the mania of it all. I'm fascinated at what Taylor Swift has done. She's essentially kind of created her own world that I would maybe potentially liken to Star Wars. You know how there's like this like fandom and
00:05:11
Speaker
folklore and whatnot surrounding Star Wars and all of the and the universe that it has created. Marvel Cinematic Universe is another good example. Taylor Swift is kind of created that. She has. She's created this universe for her fans that they eat it up. She can do no wrong and she and they are going to eat this up. This is like kind of the first time I've ever really seen this. I've never seen it. I mean, I've heard about the Beatles being this big and we've talked about that, like
00:05:40
Speaker
I mean, you would think sliced bread was just invented. Right. I can't even believe I've never in my lifetime seen a pop star gain this much notoriety. And not since the Beatles have I heard of. And, you know, we have some big people like MJ, like there's some really big people that had huge, you know, monumental careers, but nothing I have ever seen like this woman and her fandom.
00:06:08
Speaker
It's crazy. She's also I feel like she's also changed the game in terms of like the relationship with the fans.
00:06:15
Speaker
that's what I'm talking about. It's specifically the relationship with the fans that again, with how referential she is to herself and her work throughout her career. And just the from the like the letters that she like will kind of emphasize on certain song titles or within her lyric books to create special new messages or whatever, like there's a song, something about Amy, I forgot the
00:06:39
Speaker
title of this. There's the song. Thank you. L me or something. Thank you. L me. Thank you, Amy. I think because it's the oh, it's an AI AI. I thought it was L me. Thank you. It makes more sense. There's a lot of names.
Criticism & Personal Opinions
00:06:54
Speaker
There's a lot of names on this. She loves. She she said I love names on this album. But thank you, Amy. The K is capitalized. The I is capitalized and the M is capitalized. So people people are thinking about Kim Kardashian, which I don't know why.
00:07:07
Speaker
They're talking about a bronze statue or something too, so that makes sense.
00:07:11
Speaker
And I am just kind of, yeah, she has created this world for her fans where, again, from like math, like people are like pointing together like days and dates and times and timestamps and all of these things. And it's the crazy, like someone took the Tortured Poets Department logo that she created, which I love the logo, by the way. I love that logo that was created for this album.
00:07:41
Speaker
They took it flipped it upside down, which then like spelled out the word or I actually don't know how to say the word, but it's C-A-I-L, but it's, I guess, an Italian, Kyle Cale, and which then they looked up the translation to that, which was reputation or something like that. It was Bush did 9-11.
00:08:03
Speaker
Which, oh my God, I won't name this person. They will go nameless, but someone sent me the Twin Towers getting attacked and they captioned it saying Taylor Swift surprise dropping the second half of this album. I know. I was like, you're going to hell. You're going to hell. You 100% are. You were getting canceled. If you don't like this album, you're getting canceled.
00:08:27
Speaker
Right. Right. I don't know. See, so I don't know. There's a lot of criticism right now online that the album is very same from the last four from her recent stuff over the last four years. Yeah.
00:08:42
Speaker
I haven't I haven't I mean I've seen that with like my friends and like people who have similar music taste. I've I'm seeing that people that aren't fans of hers but I every city I've been talking to they're excited about they're eating it up. They're eating it up which
00:08:59
Speaker
I knew they would even before I pressed listen on the first song. I knew they were going to, but can I say something? The sound for this album, and I talked about this I believe on the last episode, I said mark my words. This is exactly how I was going to picture it to sound with Jack Antonoff. I literally could have called it. And not only is it what I predicted, but I would say worse.
00:09:25
Speaker
Oh, worse. Yeah. Talk about that. Speak on that. Okay. You know what? I might be a hater.
00:09:34
Speaker
You're not a hater. You don't think I'm a hater. I feel like I'm becoming a hater. I really do. Because here's the thing, you know, I'm I'm famous for on my Instagram about saying to people, like, let people enjoy things. Right. Let people enjoy things. And I'm a firm believer in that. We are not saying to people that they can't. If you want if you want to listen to this album and you want to love on this album, that is all for you. I think that there's ways about going about like you don't have to like everything. Right. I think there's a difference between like there are people who will go out of their way to like just shit on everything.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, especially for her, especially on her, especially for her, but other people too, like Beyonce is another polarizing figure where a lot of people will just go out of their way to like, but again, if you have, if you have a lot of fame, if you're selling out concerts, like if you're that kind of star, you're going to get 100%, you're going to get a lot of hate. And a lot of it is, you know, I think
00:10:24
Speaker
misguided and misdirected. There's nothing wrong with stating hey like this album isn't for me and maybe even saying like I don't think it's good and here's why. There's nothing wrong with that. We've gotten into this culture where we feel like we can't be honest about these types of things at least with how we feel and I think it's just because people there's like a
00:10:46
Speaker
communication gap. I feel like with social media, it because we are required to phrase things in a certain amount of characters or a certain length of time, we have lost kind of context and tone with a lot of things. So, you know, that's why I love that we have this podcast because we can kind of really dive in about our feelings and how and whatnot. So that said, shit on it, girl. Yeah, I, I have a lot of thoughts and opinions on this album.
00:11:16
Speaker
I've only given it a listen all the way through once. I have gone back and listened to a handful of the songs again. I'm trying. You're doing more work than I have. But let me tell you, it's been a chore to listen to this album. It really has been a hard experience. Number one, with the oversaturation, I
00:11:38
Speaker
I can see why having a two hour long album would excite the fan base. And she I think she did it for the fans. Sure. But as a whole, where you're already oversaturated, it was not necessary to have 31 songs. In my opinion, it's too much for for the roller coaster ride that you've been on. Like, sure. Maybe take a break and then come back with 31 songs or something. Sure. You know. Yeah. I felt like it was inappropriate.
00:12:08
Speaker
to release that many songs.
00:12:11
Speaker
I love that word choice inappropriate. I do. I just don't feel it. It didn't feel it doesn't feel right. It just feels like, again, just like here, here's it all. Here's it all here. Here it is. You know, like she just she gives, gives, gives. And part of me loves that about her. But again, if you have Christmas every day, it's not special. And it was just too much. So right off the bat, I'm already and I've talked about this the last probably like 15 episodes. I'm exhausted with her. I'm exhausted by the talking about her.
00:12:40
Speaker
Um, there's like a four year curse with me and her. It's like every four years, I either hate her or love her and what she's putting out. And I don't know what it is, but it like, like clockwork, it just happens. Like I hated the reputation era. I hated the lover era. Lover is her worst album. Um, in my opinion, hated, I hated it in hindsight. I like some of the songs and reputation now, but it's still a cringy era.
00:13:04
Speaker
Um, so I fell off, but I loved 1989 though. So it was like, I love that. And then when folklore came out, I was like, Oh, I love this. And I, I love, this is why it's really important that I say this. I love folklore and evermore. Those are some of my favorite albums. I think it's some of the best work she's put out and it feels true and authentic to the person that she was becoming at that time. So.
00:13:26
Speaker
I love that. And I really enjoyed my nights. I thought my nights was cute. Wasn't my favorite album in the world. No. Did I really enjoy it? Yes. I enjoyed a good majority of the songs, I would say. Yeah. And it hit at the right time. You know, after after that, one could say hits different. Yes. I don't like that song. But it's, you know, with the 1989 rerelease and everything and just the oversaturation, I didn't like any of the songs on there. Famously, I talked about that.
00:13:54
Speaker
And so I had a feeling I knew what this was going to sound like because, you know, she's she looks up to Alana Del Rey. She works with Jack Antonoff. And I just kind of knew that this was going to be a moody, like cigarettes after sex, ex Alana Del Rey, like vibe, but not done, not done in an interesting way. And the girls did amazing lyricists. There's some really good lyrical highlights on this album, which
00:14:22
Speaker
predicted that I knew there was going to be because she's you know, she's a great lyricist. However, here, can I and I don't even know where to start with my critique, but I think one of my biggest critiques is, you know, with folklore and evermore, there's some there's really beautiful lyric moment lyrical moments. And even on Midnight's, you know, what I loved about Midnight's was she
00:14:45
Speaker
had self-awareness. She was like, I know I'm kind of ridiculous sometimes. I know I'm the girl that's in and out of relationships. And it was almost like she was finally taking ownership over the fact that like, hey, I'm the problem. It's me. Like I know sometimes that I'm the problem. Like I'm in on the joke. And it made me fall in love with her. And I loved I really loved that era for her. And it was exciting because I'm like, oh, like she's finally kind of in on the joke. This feels like a complete regression from that. It feels like it feels like she went through a breakup.
00:15:14
Speaker
And she's 16 years old again. And I know that's the critique with her is like, you know, she's allowed to make music about breakups or whatever. But it's it just feels like it was done like the lyrics are mature, but the album as a whole and like the songs, you know, and this narrative around the breakup and everything feel immature to me. And it feels like she's gone back to not being self-aware and in on the joke.
00:15:40
Speaker
And there is some cringe-worthy moments on this album and I want to get into them. So really quick too, I want to tell our listeners, this album came out not even 12 hours ago. This came out, we are recording Friday, April 19th.
00:15:57
Speaker
And so, again, being that this is a long ass album, I have not even fully listened to the entire thing yet. I like we are we are going on our first listens, first critiques. I wouldn't even say critiques. These are like our first reactions to the album. So take it with the grain of salt. It's going to take some time for us to absorb it. We are scientists, though. So we know what we're talking about. Just saying.
00:16:25
Speaker
I mean, I mean, I use I can tell that this is not going to be this is not going to hold a lot of real listen factor for me, but that's a big part of it. Right. And then but the biggest sin, the biggest sin you can commit as a musician, I think more than anything is a boring project or album. And I think for me, that is the number one issue with this above all else is
00:16:53
Speaker
It's boring. And, and just, just to back it up real quick. I love slow music. Lana Del Rey is one of my favorite artists and I just stated, right? I love folklore. I love evermore. Slow does not equate to boring. And that's really important to know.
00:17:08
Speaker
And I want to also say I completely agree with you. I think a lot of I make fun of myself a lot for being a quote unquote dance pop gay because that's obviously the music that I gravitate to. But I also love my fair share of ballads and slow songs and mid tempo songs. Jeff doesn't even know what I listen to. He doesn't even know. But I but I truly do. I love them. And I completely agree that being a slow song or mid tempo songs does not mean that it has to be boring.
Themes & Artistic Comparisons
00:17:34
Speaker
Just saying, and a lot of people go the boring route. So this is boring in that not only is it, excuse me, this is boring in that. Not only is it repetitive, right? But it all sounds the same. It doesn't sound different than midnights or folklore or lover kind of put together. And so like, I think you mentioned to me right when we were talking about it earlier that
00:17:59
Speaker
the structure of the songs like the melodies and things like that for the most part are the same and you know the way she kind of uses her lyrics are the same and it's just a lot of the same you know and it really is and it's boring I mean I'm just gonna say it like a first reaction the album is a snooze fest
00:18:20
Speaker
Yeah, and so I have to say there was a thread that DJ John Michael sent me right before we started recording that I was able to like read through really quick where the person who wrote this thread was basically saying like Taylor went into this album to create an album to help her heal from a breakup
00:18:42
Speaker
And not one, but two. So apparently there's again, this is me not necessarily listening to the album in full yet and also not knowing deep into the Taylor lore of it all because people forget that before Mr. Kelsey, she was briefly dated or had briefly dated Matt Healy from the 1975. So apparently this album did they date or was it like it was just kind of they were seeing each other? Well, well, apparently this album addresses both relationships.
00:19:15
Speaker
The person of this thread said that she went into this to heal from those processes. But specifically in relation to Joe Alwyn, that was what Taylor had written several albums about basically being like, this is the love of my life, right? From reputation through lover, even through midnights, right? Now people are kind of in hindsight looking back and being like, oh, maybe there was some trouble in Paradise because of the song and the set and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:34
Speaker
And so, you know,
00:19:43
Speaker
But, you know, she the point of this whole thread was this person was saying like this, I don't think that they that she set out to make another album of the year, she set out to make a an album to help her heal from this process. I also want to know really quick, while it's on my mind, I'm with you on the fact that like it is exhausting the amount of tracks. And that's from someone who says like, I want Oppenheimer length albums.
00:20:09
Speaker
We just got 27 tracks on Cowboy Carter, you know, it's like. Right. But that all said, I have to say, like, this is an obnoxious amount of songs. And I think in most part because they all sound so similar and the structure is also similar. Yeah. But two, I have to applaud her in a way, I think, because of how many leaks there are. And I mean, we see a lot with we've seen it with Beyonce. We've seen it a little bit with Taylor. We see it a lot with Ariana Grande. We see it a lot with other artists. There's a lot of leaks.
00:20:39
Speaker
that comes unused songs from album sessions.
00:20:42
Speaker
demo versions, alternate versions, things like that. Her doing this basically kind of prevents the leak of unreleased songs. So I kind of have to say it's kind of a smart business move on her part. And that's one thing that Taylor Swift is before anything is a smart business woman. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, I think I think, yeah, for me, the boringness of it, the repetitiveness, and then it feels like a regression in her art.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, because for me, when I say it's boring, the melancholy-ness of it all, again, with the equation of it being melancholy, mid-tempo to ballad, and then the similar same structures. And when I say from the way the song is structured to the way that she sings her lyrics and the way that she structures her chords,
00:21:36
Speaker
when it all sounds so similarly. And I'm like, oh, she did this with the 1989 vault tracks. She did this with folklore and the Midnight's bonus tracks, the Midnight's bonus tracks. I mean, she's been doing it for a while now. And that's fine to have your own sound, but holy smokes with with again, to your point of how much we've gotten from her. This is now that this is a double album, we've gotten what, like six
00:22:02
Speaker
Studio albums in total with like the new music and bonus tracks within the last four years. That's a lot of music and and also like She maybe this is a bad way of putting it But she is kind of shoved on our throats in society because she's everywhere and you can't escape her So it's just like again the oversaturation. It's it's everywhere. You cannot escape Taylor Swift and
00:22:25
Speaker
We both talked about our respect for her. I really enjoyed the last three albums, you know, and yeah, her career as a whole. I enjoy a lot of her music, but it is just it's just what I what I thought. It came at a bad time. A lot of us are already exhausted. And you put us to sleep with this album. Yeah, you put us to sleep. It's it's completely boring. And then the uptempo songs are cringe, in my opinion.
Legacy, Identity & Genre Exploration
00:22:54
Speaker
Okay, so okay, admittedly not listening to the full entire project yet. The only song I would count as uptempo is I can do it with a broken heart. I don't know if there's another uptempo song. Yeah, I guess like, I guess like so long London kind of starts that way where you're like, Oh,
00:23:12
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. There's a couple songs. The beat is like, I like the beat. I like the beat. The beat is good. I like the beat. I like the beat. There, there is a couple songs that reminded me of the Archer, the way that the Archer is structured. You know how this whole album reminds me of love or even though no one's saying that there's something about, there's something about it.
00:23:28
Speaker
there there's the way that the archer is structured and how it is that kind of like this quote unquote uptempo dance be ish in a way but it's very minimalist and stripped back and it feels like it's building and built and it does the song builds and builds and builds but it never you don't climax you don't climax and I got I miss climaxing
00:23:48
Speaker
I may have climaxed right before we started recording, but I just have to say I miss climaxing in songs. It's not often that we hear a true explosion with a song anymore. It's rare.
00:24:07
Speaker
you know, again, I'm not saying that this a lot of people when I posted the memes right before we started recording, a lot of people were like, Well, this album, you know, wasn't meant to be like, it's not to make the day the gays dance or whatever. And I'm not saying that it has to. Yeah. But and that is what I mean, that is what you gravitate towards. But I know you and like you are, you know, you try to be objective and you get people the benefit of the doubt and like,
00:24:30
Speaker
You know, you appreciate music for just being good, right? It doesn't always have to be a dance track. A lot of comments that we're seeing out there are like, well, you probably didn't like folklore evermore. And I just wanted to be like, that's not it because I personally love those albums. So the counter argument there is just kind of like it doesn't work. You know, those albums aren't boring. There's some like I think of evermore. Evermore is one of my favorite albums of hers.
00:24:53
Speaker
You love Evermore, yeah. I love Evermore. Jeff turned me on. Ivy, great example. I was just going to say, you turned me on to Ivy. Ivy's a great example of, I think it's her best song ever, maybe. Oh, wow. I really do. Because not only is it her at her best in terms of storytelling, in terms of the lyrics, which she really shines more than anything.
00:25:11
Speaker
It's the melodies, the harmonies, the energy, the way the songs make you feel. And Cowboy Like Me is a great one too. There's something about it that it's so stripped back, but it does it for me. So listening to this album as a whole, there are only two songs that I like, that I downloaded, that I will enjoy.
00:25:35
Speaker
Two out of 31 songs. I was just kind of like woof like that's worse than I imagined. You know, I yeah, I do want to give a shout out to the two songs that I like. Okay. Yeah. Let's give those songs a shot because I want to I want to celebrate. I want to be some pot. I want to bring some positivity. So they they really they really did their work to make themselves shine.
00:25:56
Speaker
Number 19, the Albatross. I really like this. It feels like something that could be on Evermore and I think that's why I like it. I also just love a reference to birds. That's fun. Who doesn't like a bird reference? I'm like a bird, Nelly Furtado. Which we love, Nelly Furtado on this podcast. This is actually a Nelly Furtado stan podcast. I cannot wait to talk about the 20th anniversary of Loose in a few years because it's about to go off.
00:26:22
Speaker
It's that album is everything. I'm about to get loose. I mean, I'm loose. Like we don't get we don't get albums like that anymore.
00:26:30
Speaker
We don't. We don't. Where is your Timbaland collab, Taylor? Where is your loose, Taylor? Come on, Taylor, get loose. Um, so that one I really enjoy. I think the melody is absolutely beautiful and I just, I just like it a lot. Now 26, the lyrics on this one made me feel something. I really, I really like this. I feel like this is another one where she feels, it feels a bit self-aware.
00:26:54
Speaker
The prophecy. The prophecy. It's also just kind of it's a beautiful storytelling. It kind of reminds me of Ivy in that way. I think the storytelling is really beautiful. And I think there is a lot of I do. I do want to highlight the album that there is a lot of great lyrical moments.
00:27:10
Speaker
But it feels like and maybe, yeah, maybe she's healing and and and again, I think she knows that no matter what she puts out there, the fans are going to eat it up. So she can create an album like this where it really feels like she just did it for the lyrics. Yeah, there was no other part of the song that really mattered other than the lyrics. And I think that was the mental state that she had going into it because I can't explain it other than that.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think I mean, I think the title of the album says that all the tortured poets department and she's been all about typewriters or as you say, the toilet paper, the toilet paper department is the TV TV, the toilet paper department. I mean, she's she said, you know what she did? She listened to Madonna's Madam X, looked at that album rollout and said, I want to be her. That's what she did. She took the typewriter.
00:27:59
Speaker
She's the queen of romanticizing things. She's like, you know what? I wish I would have had a typewriter. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think she would wish that she would grow up in a different time? She talks about it. She talks about it. Did you not hear it? You might have not heard the song. So there is a song.
00:28:16
Speaker
where she talks about this very thing. I sent you a snippet of it. It's called I Hate It Here. So it is track number 23. She talks about sitting around with her friends, talking about what time zone would you want to live in? We don't belong here. Again, cringe lyrics, like what are you 16 years old? I wish I grew up in the 50s. So she then says this is maybe the cringiest moment on the album for me. Give it to me.
00:28:42
Speaker
She says she's talking about the time zone she wants to live in. She said, I'd say the 1830s, but without all the racists and getting married off for the highest bid. Oh, my God. And the way she says it, she's like, I'd say the 1830s, but with and then it's like the second part's like, but without all the racists, like she just adds it in there. And I'm like, you did that because you knew you were going to get eight up if you didn't do that. But I think it's going to backfire and be like, girl, who are you? Who are you doing that for?
00:29:11
Speaker
She's doing it because she has this unspeakable desire to just be liked, which she's talked about. She talked about in her documentary years ago. But she wants everyone to love her. And she wants to love her lover, Taylor. But I just, yeah, yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
When I heard that, I was like, what is this? Is this a parody? I was like, this is so funny. For me, this album, I had a hard time getting into it was there was no song that was like, there were no earworms from what I heard. No hooks.
00:29:56
Speaker
No hooks. I mean, with with Midnight's, I mean, when we all heard antihero, we were instantly you're like, it's a phenomenal song, phenomenal song. And I'm not saying that every song has to be a gigantic earworm, but Taylor Swift is a great songwriter. And even some of her more. I mean, I'll go to folklore. Exile, I think, is an incredible song. That song is a beautifully written song.
00:30:20
Speaker
that the ending or the latter half of that song gets stuck in my head all the time. Right. Beautiful song. Love that song.
Creative Stagnation & Future Speculations
00:30:28
Speaker
This album. I did not hear. I did not did not get that. You're warm. I did not get that. There's no musicality. It's just lyrics. It's lyrics that then had music put to them. And that's. And yeah, exactly. You know, I told you this for me. It is like.
00:30:49
Speaker
She's obviously been hanging out with Lana Del Rey more as a Lana Del Rey stan and historian. It feels like the annoying younger sister looking up to the older sister who wants to be them very badly. That's what it feels like. And it's not working. How do you think Lana feels right now?
00:31:10
Speaker
I would be pissed. I'd be pissed. Not only is Jack Antonoff who works with both of them, but you know Taylor somewhere was like, I really like the way this sounds. You know what I mean? You know there was a conversation had where she was like, I love the way this sounded on Norman fucking Rockwell when you worked with her. Let's add some of that. I even hear a little bit of some of the instruments from Norman fucking Rockwell.
00:31:33
Speaker
because that album is very nautical, even the theme of her on the boat. There's some elements. I don't even know how to describe a nautical instrument, but there's certain little sounds and whistles and things that I heard a little bit. Interesting. I feel strongly that there was a conversation had
00:31:53
Speaker
where Taylor was like, I really like this album, this Lana Del Rey album. I know that she looks up to her as a lyricist. She had her on her album, Snow on the Beach, and obviously embarrassing her at the Grammys, which I was... That's when I had enough. You had enough. That was the turning point, yep. If I was Lana Del Rey, I would be pissed because I'm sorry, Taylor Swift. I like you. I don't want to sound like a hater, but you will never be that girl. Just be you.
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah, just be you. It's interesting. Now that you say that, Jeff, I find it fascinating that, you know, she's clearly doing and I kept making the joke that she's doing Lana Del Rey cosplay today. But, you know, she's definitely taking a sound that I'm not going to say that Lana Del Rey originated it, but she is known for right. She's this dreamy, poppy type of sound.
00:32:44
Speaker
That and, you know, I'm not seeing the criticisms that, you know, so how am I trying to see? No, I wasn't going to go there. I was going to say, you know, Lady Gaga, when she was doing like a dance pop sound and getting criticized left and right for, quote unquote, sounding like and being like Madonna.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah, she gets those comparisons to this day. So why so why does Taylor Swift and I'm not saying that Taylor Swift has I think all artists and you and I've said this can genre experiment and genre shift all they want. But why when it when it comes down to this this point where it's like you are sounding like Lana now and this album is produced. Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
But she's trying. She's trying. She's trying. That's what I'm saying. Like where where is that criticism? That's the thing that kind of frustrates me with the Swifties. I love that you love Taylor Swift. I love that you love her. I love that you support her. I think that you have all the autonomy in the world to do so. But it's frustrating when like Taylor Swift fans get so blind to they think that like Taylor is the originator of things or that or the soul songwriter.
00:33:57
Speaker
soul songwriter or they're completely unaware of other artists that maybe have done things before Taylor that maybe Taylor herself was influenced from they're like like Robin a lot of times like I would say like the B of um I can do it with a broken heart was very Robin inspired um and a lot of Taylor Swift fans would be like who's Robin you know and I'm just kind of like
00:34:20
Speaker
Please, like I love your girl, but like educate yourself a little bit like it's it. That to me is is one of the most cringe worthy and embarrassing things. Yeah. To be to be honest, so I think that's relevant with most fan bases, not just hers. True. But I think that she's just such a huge star that you see it more and it's more ignorance.
Influence on Pop Culture & Music Industry
00:34:38
Speaker
But yeah.
00:34:39
Speaker
I will say I agree with you. I hope number one, I hope that we start hearing conversation about that. Maybe that will be a critique. You know, number two, I think with like the difference between Lady Gaga to is that, you know, number one, Taylor's more solidified in her career versus when Lady Gaga was getting those comments kind of early on in her career. True. So I think I think that's definitely
00:35:04
Speaker
a part of it. But I think if you're like a singer songwriter girl, like if you write your own lyrics, you just don't receive the same kind of critiques that like the Beyonce's, the Lady Gaga's do, the Kylie Minogue's do. You just don't because people are misogynistic and they don't respect that those women who don't write their own songs are still fucking incredible artists.
00:35:25
Speaker
And I think that's like a big part of it. You know, I think she gets away with a lot because she writes her own songs and she's an amazing lyricist and she's applauded, you know, critically acclaimed as one of the best lyricists of her generation. So, you know, of course, people aren't going to be like, wow, you sound a lot like Lana Del Rey, like because. Yeah, you do. And it's very clear that you are inspired by her because the other thing about Lana is
00:35:52
Speaker
She's always been in a lane of her own. Like when she when she was putting out that kind of Baroque pop, I mean, that was not cool at the time. She's like, this is me. And she's always been like a genuine like, even though there might have been like a character like the Lizzie Grant kind of character talk about my Marvel.
00:36:07
Speaker
universe. Lizzie Grant, the sparkled jump rope queen for all my hardcore, a lot of fans out there that will know that reference. But I think that she's always had this character. She's always had a vision. Again, she's an artist. And so and that's evolved over time in a really beautiful way. And now she's really become kind of kind of, you know, come into her own. Yeah. But with Taylor, it does it to me, it's just that image of like the annoying little sister who just wants to emulate people and
00:36:35
Speaker
It's like, girl, just, just stay in your lane. I mean, I'm not saying you can't experiment, but like stay in your lane. Like don't try to be a carbon copy of someone else.
00:36:45
Speaker
And that's it. It's not that she can't experience it 100% because there's a difference between being inspired by and genre shifting and trying to do all these different things and trying to copy what someone's doing. And that's kind of how some of the vibe that I'm getting from this is that it's trying a little too hard to sound like and be like Lana Del Rey versus being inspired by and making it your own.
00:37:09
Speaker
much like how Beyonce took country music and was inspired by country music and made it her own with Cowboy Carter. I don't know. When I got done listening with this album, I said, anyways, back to Cowboy Carter. Back to Cowboy Carter, which I finally was able to revisit today. For the listeners out there, I started to get a little bit deep. I experienced a couple losses in the last couple of weeks and one was a little bit more recent. I did take a few days to
00:37:37
Speaker
Uh, uh, take a break from cowboy Carter because, you know, just thematically and musically, this album gets a little, uh, Heavy, especially at the beginning. And so I just didn't, you know, I wanted to take some time and needed some serotonin. Uh, but I did go back to, uh, cowboy Carter today and let's celebrate that. Hey, let's celebrate. You know what I did. I revisited Renaissance speak. And I even sent you, I'm like, I have a new found appreciation for all up in your mind.
00:38:04
Speaker
So what are you appreciating? What ignited that?
00:38:08
Speaker
It is so I've realized like it really is so catchy and it was never a favorite of mine on the album. I like again with Renaissance. It's my favorite album of hers. It's a perfect album. There's not there's not a track I don't like. So it's not like I didn't listen or like it, but it wasn't a treasure gem. And I'm like, oh, this is actually it's hitting me in a way now, like years later, I'm like, and it is so catchy. And maybe it's because I just got off listening to this snooze fest of a an album not to be a hater.
00:38:38
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I was really enjoying listening to Renaissance again. I'm like, it got me excited too. I'm like, and I was hearing so many of the elements of the songs and I'm like, I wonder what was like.
00:38:50
Speaker
you know, with her like Virgo brain, she's like, OK, this is going to work really well with the in kind of, you know, combination with the cowboy Carter to sound and like, especially the dance songs at the end of the album, like the Riverdance and, you know, like the more uptempo stuff, the desert desert equal to whatever. So I don't know, just maybe like listen to it differently. And I love that. Yeah, I love it. It's a great song.
00:39:17
Speaker
I love rediscovering songs that, you know, that like maybe at first didn't grab you or gravitate to. And then later on there, you're like, actually, this is this is really great. Yeah. You know, you know what else I did, too? I re listened to some of Midnight's a little bit. I know I had a lot of time in my hands today, didn't I? Apparently. I list, but I was like, you know what else is crazy, too, is when when I had my headphones on and I hit play and lavender haze was in my ears.
00:39:46
Speaker
I got chills. I got full body chills. It really set the tone and the precedent for the album. I was like, oh, wow, like I'm ready to hear this. I fucking love that song. It's a great song. And so that was just completely missing from this project. Nothing like that and nothing to set the tone. It was like we're five songs deep. They all sound the same. I'm like, did the album start yet? Right.
00:40:09
Speaker
What is happening? So that was another thing I wanted to know, too. I was like, oh, wow, like the midnight's really midnight's was exciting, you know.
00:40:16
Speaker
It was exciting because I think, I think, too, you know, with Midnight's, you know, you had Taylor kind of come out back to back with, you know, the folklore ever more of it all, which saw her go into a more folksy style, acoustic style, show off her lyrics, show off the lyrics, show off her musicality a little bit more.
00:40:40
Speaker
And really was kind of another pivot from being a pop superstar type of thing. And so Midnight's was kind of a return back to being a pop star in a more synth style sound.
00:40:55
Speaker
And it married it married those two, though. It married those two in a beautiful way. It felt like she evolved like beyond just like 1989 pop. It was 100 percent. And it was it was really kind of like, you know, it's kind of a magical moment for her. Yeah. And I think that, you know, and I think that she now that she has this album out,
00:41:17
Speaker
Um, we'll obviously probably hear, you know, this will probably be an era for a little bit, you know, probably get a couple singles out of it, maybe a couple of music videos. Um, but I don't have the strength. I'm sorry. I don't know if I have the strength either, but you know, I will say I'm looking forward to the fortnight video that comes out tonight. Um, the video does look good. As you said, it's giving poor things.
00:41:39
Speaker
Yeah, the video looks great. Yeah, the video looks great. And that's it. I have to say Gothic. Taylor Swift gives great music videos. She gives great. I'm not saying every music video is a perfect video, but I would I would say like nine times out of 10 Taylor Swift delivers. And overall, like overall, she gives like really good kind of like eras. I completely agree. Even if you don't always like it, it's like it's you know, it's going to be an era.
00:42:03
Speaker
It's going to be an era, and I do love the excitement, regardless of how I feel about the final product. I love that it's a conversation starter. I love that it's an era. I love that it's a celebration. I know people are going to be like, he hates the album and stuff like that. It's not even that I hate the album. It's not that it's even bad. It's just not my taste.
00:42:28
Speaker
OK, it's not bad, but it's boring. And that is the number one sin for me personally. You know, like a boring album is just not it's not it's not it. And, you know, I find out what the genre was, by the way. Finally, it's called shoegaze, shoegaze. What is shoegaze?
00:42:44
Speaker
It's that sound. It's that sound I was telling. It's like this dream pop kind of sound. I don't know how to describe. Oh, it's called shoegaze. It's called shoegaze. And that's exactly kind of, you know, what I knew this would sound like. You know, someone would call me a shoegae with my boots. I like shoegaze, too. Like I like some of it. You know, Lover was my favorite song on Lover. That's a very shoegazy song. Hmm. OK.
00:43:06
Speaker
And, but this was just like so boring. It was so boring. I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah. You said it for, I mean, number one saying God did say thou shall not be boring. And. Thou shall not bug. Thou shall not bug. Thou shall not bore. Thou shall not bore.
00:43:22
Speaker
Thou shall not bore. Oh, my gosh, I love that. Yeah, you know, and I will also be really transparent. Like I did not listen to the full album yet. I will give it a full listen at some point this weekend. I like you. It feels like a chore. And so it takes a lot of mental stamina to get in the place where you can listen to it in full. It's a lot of hours.
00:43:45
Speaker
It's a lot of, a lot of hours plus two, like I'll also be really real. Like I have not had, or I've not experienced heartbreak in a very long time. I've experienced a lot of unrequited love, but I've never, or not never, but I've not experienced heartbreak in a very long time. So an a two hour album about, you know, a breakup, not to like minimize it, but like to me, that's just very much like,
00:44:12
Speaker
The lyrics aren't going to grab you as maybe some other people like myself. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm just kind of like, I don't know. But I do love that she's loving names on this album. I love that there's a song called Cassandra. I have a friend named Cassandra. Shout out Cassandra. Oh, see, I see that bothered me. Can I tell you why?
00:44:31
Speaker
Yes, because Florence the Machine is on this album. I also hear some Florence and influence, but again, like God. And I really I do like killer. So I know I sound like a hater, but you will never be Florence in the machine like that. She's she is truly her own artist. And I and I love Florence in the machine. Yeah.
00:44:50
Speaker
But she has a song called Cassandra on her last album. Oh, interesting. And it's about the same person, you know, in history. Cassandra, this woman that that died, I think she was like stoned to death or something. I don't know. One of those like figures, you know, figureheads. So that's what the song's about. Sure. You know, there's a lot of like medieval, like influence, like storytelling on this on this album, which is fun.
00:45:15
Speaker
But I was just kind of like really that was clearly inspired by Florence's song, right? Yeah, and that's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay, but it's like it's just like uh like Get your own identity like yeah like juice and and I think this is this is what we talked about before like you and I both
00:45:41
Speaker
while we respect and love a lot of Taylor Swift's music, it's nothing special, I would say. It's nothing monumental. It hasn't broken any barriers. It hasn't done anything. So, you know, it appeals to like kind of, I don't know how to put this in a positive way, but it appeals to like the masses. 100%. I mean, she is truly a pop star in the sense of like, how can my music grab as many people as possible?
00:46:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's a lot of it's relatable to a lot of people. Yeah. But sometimes it lacks this kind of like identity that some of these other artists have, like Florence and the Machine, like Lana Del Rey, like Beyonce. And I think that's what bothers me the most about her sometimes is I'm like.
00:46:25
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah, because it's like the music, the output that she's putting out, especially and I will say to, you know, again, while I respect the hustle of her, like just churning out music left and right, you know, more isn't always more. Right. As much as I love a long song, as much as I love a long album, more doesn't always mean more. And I think that that's what we what you and I are kind of experiencing right now. Where is the quality over quantity? We are losing quality because of
00:46:54
Speaker
how much is being churned out. And the thing too, I mean, she is, she is keeping Jack Antonoff employed. She is keeping Aaron Dessner employed. Did I, did I send you that, that video of him from like the 2000s where he's dancing to rock with you by Ashanti?
00:47:10
Speaker
Oh, maybe. It's so funny. He's like a magician costume and he's like moving his hips and he's like singing along to Ashanti in the mirror. Oh, my God. It's wild. Wild. OK, I'll have to have to revisit that. That's funny. But like, you know, that's my thing. It's like a lot of people are kind of shitting on Jack Antonoff right now with this album.
00:47:31
Speaker
Here's my thing. I think Jack Antonoff is a great songwriter and great producer, but I do think- He's a genius. He is. I do think that Taylor and him together, I think they are experiencing a, because of how much they have created together and because of how same it is sounding, I do think it would be very wise to take a break from one another.
00:47:53
Speaker
I think absolutely. Or have his role on the next album be like secretary, secretary. I think I absolutely agree. I think not only does she need to take a break from Jack and and get, you know, in contact with like a new team behind her for a little bit, but I also think she needs to take a break in general. Yeah, I completely want to write music, you know, write it for yourself.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I don't know because it doesn't always need to be an album. And again, you know, we've talked about this like part of me is like, wow, that's so cool. She does so much for her fans. And I love that. But it cannot be Christmas every day. I can't.
00:48:35
Speaker
It just can't. It's too much. It's like it's like that one year that Lana Del Rey released two albums in the same year. I was like, I just was uninterested. You know, it is. Yeah, it's a lot. And it's like, you know, as I think that you said it best, you know, not every day is Christmas. And the whole thing about Christmas or Halloween, you know, is that it's one or Easter like it's a fun day. It happens once a year. And there's a lot of excitement and buzz around it. Right.
00:49:05
Speaker
It's not saying that art. I mean, artists obviously can do whatever the fuck they want, but you do run into this where it is. It is oversaturating. And for me, again, it's just the quality. We're losing the quality. I don't need. I don't need 31 songs that sound the same.
00:49:23
Speaker
No one needs that. Yeah. No one needs that. I know the fans are going to eat it up, but no one needs that. And it just, it just also proves that you do need breaks for creativity. You do need breaks to be able to reset and like really refresh and kind of get it together. If not, I think that, yeah, I mean, of course it's going to sound the same. She's been go, go, go for the last, you know, five years. Yeah. 100%. Why else would it not sound the same? You know, it's like take a break, regroup.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll just say this tortured poets department. It's the tortured listeners department for me. It's the tortured listeners department. I mean, really jokes on us at the end of the day, she's a billionaire now and we are who are we, you know, but yeah, no, I'm with you. I you know,
00:50:14
Speaker
We love you, Taylor. We don't want it. We do love you. We I mean, we don't really like you. We really like the words of Carly Rae Jopson. We really, really, really, really, really, really like you. I want to see her succeed. It's not that I don't. I don't. And I like a lot of her music and especially like.
00:50:30
Speaker
you know, from like folklore to midnight. So it was really on board for those eras. So yeah, it's just it's a curse with her. You know, I it's like a presidential election every four years. You know, it's just kind of that the Trump. So here's a question for you. How long of a break would you like from Taylor Swift if she were to like at this point? Well, I think she could take three or four years off and it would be fine. Wow. I don't think she needs, you know, three years would be great.
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think that I could I could definitely do a year and I think two years would be good. Three years might be like she's going to continue to do these re-releases, right? Isn't there? There's still some re-releases. So it's like we don't need that. I don't need another project on top of that. Not at all at the same time. Not all kind of close together. Right. It makes me wonder. It makes me wonder if she is going to release the reputation and self-titled re-recordings at the same time because
00:51:29
Speaker
Again, in the lore of Taylor Swift of it all, fans were like, oh, she's going to release Reputation next and then self-titled because then she's reclaiming her reputation and her name, quote unquote. I was like, cute, love that. But part of me is like, well, why wouldn't she just do that together then? I will say to
00:51:48
Speaker
You know, all of this to be said about, you know, being oversaturated. Now I can wait two years for the reputation of it all. But I am curious to hear what those songs, the vault tracks will sound like, because again, that was I would argue her most experimental album sound wise. And allegedly she had recorded a different album before reputation. But then the Kanye West snake of it all happened. So then she scrapped that album.
00:52:16
Speaker
and then recorded Reputation. And allegedly, that's where actually Karma, the song Karma originally came from, was that was the recording sessions for the album that was not released. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's really interesting. I did not know that. Yeah. So, yeah, so very curious to hear what that will all sound like and be like, but I don't need to hear it for another two years. Yeah. You know what? At the end of the day, stream folklore, stream Evermore, stream Cowboy Carter.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I. Yeah, that's all I got to say.
Shift to Coachella & Other Artists
00:52:55
Speaker
Well, I again, this is this is going to be our most polarizing episode yet. Yeah, I do want to say that this is all in good fun. It's all it's all in love. We love music. We love Taylor. So it's not for us. Obviously, if the fans like it, music is subjective. We just we're just bored and that's OK.
00:53:14
Speaker
it's okay we don't have you don't have to like everything you don't have to like everything exactly i don't i don't like i am sasha fierce you know there's some albums i don't like and we can we can be bored sometimes too right like yeah a lot of don't worry bores me sometimes you know it happens it happens you gotta have a flop or two you gotta have a flop the flop the flop uh hey jeff do you have a song that we don't talk about enough i do and it's gonna piss you off i can't wait i've got one too okay you go first
00:53:40
Speaker
So in the spirit of Coachella, and I just want to talk about Coachella really quickly. Coachella looks fun this year. Can I say something? It looks so fun. I take back everything I said. Yeah. Everything I said. I am gobsmacked. I am so I'm honestly pissed. Can I tell you why? Because I went last year and when I looked at the lineup this year, I was like, oh, thank God I went last year. Like I had Kali Uchis. I had like, you know, there was bigger names and like peoples and Daya came out.
00:54:08
Speaker
You know, there was some fun moments. Yeah. Last year was fucking doodoo.
00:54:14
Speaker
do-do compared to this. I was so mad. I had so much FOMO. Not only did Lana Del Rey eat that performance and look the best she's ever looked. She looks great. She looks healthy. I would take a bullet for her. I can't even believe how good she looks. Oh my god, it was just everything. I just wanted to be there so bad. And Billie Eilish came out, they did a beautiful song together. It was such a moment.
00:54:41
Speaker
She rode in on a fucking motorcycle. You know how hard that is to do, like 25 miles an hour? I was like, who's this man driving her? And who agreed to this? Not only that, the surprise guest, Nellie Furtado coming out with Dom Dolla, looking so good. I mean, so good. She said, let me give you some pink metallic moment. Olivia Rodrigo came out with no doubt. No doubt, it looked fun. Everything looked so fun. And I am just so upset that I was not there.
00:55:09
Speaker
I know that I'm not a huge Doja Cat fan musically, but her performances look incredible. The hair, the hairography of the hair and the mud. I couldn't. When I was watching that, I was like, holy shit. Yeah, I want not. I didn't even pay for my Coachella ticket, but I want my money back because I.
00:55:30
Speaker
I was so jealous and I take back everything I said. And it just goes to show to, you know, it goes to show the lineup doesn't always have to be great. I think it's not about having one big artist to go to. It's not about like, oh, Taylor, so sorry, we're all going to go to her. It really is about exploring all these different people and the surprises that come with that. So that's kind of what's cool about Coachella. And I feel like this year really highlighted that. And I'm just jealous of everyone there. But that being said, yeah,
00:55:59
Speaker
Sabrina Carpenter was there. OK. And this is this is one of these girlies like that. You know, it's like Renee Rapp. It's like her. It's what's the other one help? I don't know. Oh, like the chapel run of it all, like blowing up. OK. They're just kind of all in the same universe to me, like these Gen Z kind of, you know, oh, people. I just kind of I kind of group them together and just that like they're like, you know, this Gen Z pop that I don't necessarily gravitate towards. Sure.
00:56:28
Speaker
I will say I am absolutely loving Sabrina Carpenter's new espresso single. I think it is so fun. It's so cute. I love it. I'm like, okay, I'm really here for this. And it's going to be my song for the summer, I think. Jeff loves coffee. He loves his Starbucks. He calls it his starbies. He goes at least once a day. And I think that's why you love the song because you love coffee.
00:56:52
Speaker
Her voice is so sweet on it. I just really enjoy this song. I think it's cute. It's a cute song. It's really cute. I will try to give it a fair listen for you. I don't know if it's for you. I don't know if it's for you, but I really like it a lot. I'm here for it. It's a moment. So what's your song that we don't talk about?
00:57:11
Speaker
Well, since we just spent this entire hour talking about Taylor Swift and her protege, Jack Antonoff, I'm going to go with a Jack Antonoff produced song by Ms. Carly Rae Jopson called This Love Isn't Crazy that was originally recorded for Dedicated.
00:57:28
Speaker
did not make the original album but made Side B. It is a pop dance banger. It is so good. It came out during the pandemic. It came out, I think, the same day as Chromatica. And so- I don't know the song.
00:57:44
Speaker
It's really fun, really good. It's a very like the chorus is almost very 80s, emcemic type of sound. So but yeah, it's a wonderful song. It always shocks me the songs that Carly Rae Jopson puts out on her B side projects. That's something that she's been kind of doing before Taylor before Taylor, where she's been, you know, she will release an album and then
00:58:12
Speaker
Because fans love it so much, she puts out the songs that didn't necessarily make the cut. And they're better usually? Oftentimes they're better. Kylie Minogue.
00:58:22
Speaker
Yeah, or if not better, they're just on par. So like sometimes, but there are a lot of times where I'm just kind of like, interesting that you, and I'll use like the last album of hers. Like she released Beach House as the lead single from The Loneliest Time, but then left a song like Psychedelic Switch on The Loveliest Time, which was the side B portion. I'm like, Psychedelic Switch is that girl. And yet you hear you are
00:58:52
Speaker
releasing beach house, like, again, no shade. I just sometimes I just I'm like, who's making these decisions and why? But anyway, this love isn't crazy is a really great song. You should definitely check it out. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Well, happy release release week to the Taylor Swift fans of it all. Happy release week to the Swifties. We're happy for you. We're glad you had fun. Shout out. I had fun.
00:59:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm. We had, we had fun. Um, everybody, uh, stream, uh, cowboy Carter for clear skin and stream Norman fucking Rockwell. If you want to hear what influenced this entire project, there we go. I'm just kidding, but he's not until next time. Until next time. Bye. Bye.