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The Katy Perry Episode
364 Plays7 months ago
DJ John Michael returns for our first "three-way" episode! On this episode of POP THEORY, the boys discuss all things Katy Perry's return with her new single "Woman's World." Did the song live up to our expectations? Are we excited for the album? What are our thoughts on Dr. Luke's involvement? All is revealed in this VERY juicy episode.
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Transcript
Introduction & Special Episode Collaboration
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Pop Theory, everybody. Today we're joined. I'm so excited, you guys. This is our first three-way episode. Speak for yourself. It may be a woman's world, but right now it's a gay man's world with a three-way lesson here. Jeff and I are joined with DJ John Michael from Peloton.
00:00:23
Speaker
If I'm gonna be honest, it still feels like a woman's world. Yes, it is very much a woman's world, very much a woman's world. You guys were experiencing quite the chaos in this woman's world right now. I don't even know how to even get started. Where do we even begin? Go ahead, Jeff, you go.
Katy Perry Parody Video: Authentic or Satire?
00:00:46
Speaker
Did y'all see her video she put out stating that this was...
00:00:51
Speaker
a parody, essentially, to explain herself. Maybe we start there. Okay. Yeah, we could do that. A parody, if you will. A parody. A parody. So this was sent to me by one of the gays that I work with.
00:01:07
Speaker
And in all capital letters, it just said, oh my God, look at her trying to walk this back as satire. And I was like, wait a minute, hang on. And I watched the video and I said, this was recorded on set. I said, this music video would have been recorded in easily three months ago, if not more. Yeah.
00:01:25
Speaker
I said, so this would have had to been filmed, so this would have to be true. I said, because all the dancers are behind her, she's on the set, she's in the costume, it's the whole look. I was like, so I do believe this, actually. I was like, I don't think that this is something, she did not recreate this entire thing for an Instagram video. Right, right, right. That would be amazing, if so. It would be, it would be, right. I feel like the label would laugh at her.
00:01:47
Speaker
She would be like, look at the power of AI and all of this. Yeah, yeah. But the fact that she predicted that too, she's like, I'm going to do this just in case, because I know I'm going to get flack for this. But my thing is, if you knew that was the case, where was some of that thought interjected?
00:02:08
Speaker
Wait, but do people not think that this is part of the plan? And this is what has been confusing me since I've watched the music video, is I'm like, I feel like we have lost our ability to detect satire. Because when I see this video and I'm like, okay, I said, this feels very in line with Chained to the Rhythm with Last Friday Night with California Girls. Like, I mean, you're talking about the woman who shoots whipped cream out of her tits. Like, what do we like? And all of a sudden, they're just like, this is not a feminist anthem. I'm like,
00:02:37
Speaker
I don't think it's supposed to be. I think you're actually just all missing the joke. Yeah. Yeah. And I see that for sure. Yeah. I see that for sure. For me, OK. For the listeners out there, in case you are wondering what the hell we're talking about, if you live under a rock, we're talking about Katy Perry's Woman's World that just came out.
00:03:01
Speaker
I will say this. So she debuted the image of Women's World, the single cover on my birthday. I was with Jeff, actually. And I was like, oh my God. And she posted a snippet of the song. And so I will say the visual for the first visual for the project, her and those robotic legs, the little bikini. Love. So Kuntie.
00:03:23
Speaker
But it was giving off a new style of a new type of version of Katy Perry that we really hadn't seen before. At least in my opinion, like it was just straight up like sexy pop star. We're not trying to be quirky here. That's how I received it. Got it. Got it. So I feel like maybe that's where this is maybe getting some misguided or or people just don't get it because
00:03:50
Speaker
Because people, we are so attached to visuals and themes, much like how Dua Lipa started the radical optimism era with the psychedelic kaleidoscope things and then switched it to the beach theme, people were so confused and like, what? And I'm like, clearly you haven't been through a Madonna album cycle.
00:04:11
Speaker
Radical confusion. But yeah, that's a really good point though. But I think I feel like the part where she looks like the most like the pop star to me is when she's dressed in like the workout, not the workout, the working gear, where it's like a slutty version of like the construction worker because I'm like, oh, this is sort of like the Fifth Harmony work video.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's like Rosie the Riveter. Right. Because so I think the other thing that I kind of feel like people are missing too is that when I listen to the lyrics, they should be banal if they're satirical. And they are here because as somebody who works in the fitness world or the fitness-influency world,
00:04:55
Speaker
All of the things that she's saying are the ridiculous platitudes that I see all the time. People wear them in t-shirts, influencers prop them up on Etsy. I see all of these things, so it felt immediately when I was looking and listening to this like, oh, this is clearly a take on the girl boss type nonsense that we see all the time. And I see it so much every single day. And it's always like a glitter mug with, you know,
00:05:20
Speaker
uh you know the the best let the best of you be the rest of you you know like or something like some sort of crazy platitude so i'm like oh she's nailed it she's absolutely nailed it yeah hashtag girl boss i mean right right i think zach was talking about this a few weeks ago or whenever this song came out if it was last week i can't even remember now it feels like time is an illusion but it's brat summer for me everything else i don't know so yeah it but
00:05:47
Speaker
What's interesting is that it's kind of like, has she ever been that serious of an artist? Are we expecting a political statement from her? Or is she just California girls spraying whipped cream out of her tits? That's what we know and love her for. So why are we expecting her to be like,
00:06:05
Speaker
I don't even know. But like, chain to the rhythm is a deeply satirical take on American society. Yeah. And just society in general, maybe not even American, but just society in general. And I'm like, she's always been that girl, though. So I'm like, I don't see why this would be any different. Now, look, as far as the song goes, it's fine. I think it will be good in a live show. I think that it'll have a lot of costumes and crazy, whatever. That's fine. But again, is it my favorite lead single? Not by a long shot. But it's fine. Again, it's like, you know,
00:06:35
Speaker
stupid love on Teemu. But, you know. Oh my God, that's a great way of describing it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It really is stupid love on Teemu. Right. It's very generic. Yeah. And it's totally, totally fine. And I can't say too much, but I will say that I was able to hear some of the tracks and I really think that the album is excellent and I really hope that people give it a shot. Yeah. Well, I really, really, I have to be honest, like I really do like the production is excellent from what I've heard. Like it really like. Yeah.
00:07:05
Speaker
I did then the like the weird Dr. Luke thing shows up online and then that whole like angle and I'm like, I
00:07:12
Speaker
I could go down a whole rabbit hole with this too, but I think that we're all aligned on this as well. Well, we just might. I think maybe we're about to open that hole because, well, yeah. Well, to your point about the album, she didn't get the covers out. She did tease a couple of snippets online. She did an Instagram live where she teased Gimme Gimme Gimme. I'm his, he's mine. The one that samples Gypsy Woman.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yes. And then and then she teased Nirvana. Nirvana was my favorite of the three. But they all sound fun, very in line with Katy Perry, very like what the streets have been talking about, about, you know, it being in this very dancy album. And then on the Zane Lowe show, she teased lifetimes, and
00:07:58
Speaker
gorgeous. That's my favorite. Those are my two favorites. Okay. Yeah. So like, lifetimes was like, it's very much like walking on air 2.0. Yes. And I'm thrilled for that. I mean, I'm excited. I'm, I'm excited to hear the album. Yeah. But to your point, I think this is where the majority of the hatred, at least that I've seen in my algorithm
00:08:20
Speaker
that it's
Dr. Luke's Complex Role in Music Industry
00:08:21
Speaker
coming from is the Dr. Luke of it all. And I completely understand, I understand, especially with an album or a song called Woman's World, and everything that Dr. Luke has had, you know, been accused of, with especially with Kesha,
00:08:38
Speaker
But the thing that I am getting very frustrated with is the amount of people who are going online and getting on the keyboards, pointing at people and saying, you're supporting a rapist, you're supporting a rapist who completely fail to understand the hand that Dr. Luke has in the music industry and the songs that he is involved in. OK, so let's let's pause there and I'm going to put a pin in it because this is where I started taking notes.
00:09:05
Speaker
Now, as somebody who works in a gay bar and has for the last 24 years, there is not, if everybody was supposed, was going to reject all of Dr. Luke's music, gay bars would not survive. That is first of all. There is no way, because a short list, a very, very short list of artists that he has worked with, Kelly Osborn, Kelly Clarkson, the Backstreet Boys, the Veronikas, Pink, Paris Hilton, Calise, Lil Mama, Leona Lewis, the Sugar Babes, Miranda Cosgrove,
00:09:31
Speaker
Katy Perry, Vanessa Hudgens, Britney Spears, Ciara, Kesha, Miley Cyrus, Pitbull, Adam Lambert, Kelly Rowland, Jessie J, Rihanna, Marina, Nicki Minaj, One Direction, Becky G, Shakira, Jason Derulo, Maroon 5. I could go on. It's a very long list. Yeah. So now the allegations appear in 2014. Since 2014, it's been Pitbull, Shakira, Becky G, Nicki Minaj, Jason Derulo, Usher, Ciara, Azalea Banks, Koye LeRae, Saweetie, Fergie,
00:10:02
Speaker
So why does Katy Perry get the cross to bear? Because no one has had this energy for any of these other artists.
00:10:10
Speaker
Right. And so the thing that I keep seeing people say is that, to your point, is like, oh, you shouldn't support any artist or any songs that he produced past 2014, because that's when the allegations came out. My thing is, while I kind of understand that logic, people keep saying that as if streaming his music prior doesn't still go into his pocket. Right.
00:10:37
Speaker
And I would argue that the songs that he has produced prior to 2014 is the music that is getting streamed way more than anything he's put out since then. Those are like smash. I mean, he's got some smash hits. I was shocked looking at his discography. I didn't realize, I didn't have a grasp on how many hits he produced. I mean, we're talking since you've been gone, Teenage Dream, Katy Perry, one of my favorite songs of all time. I think one of the best produced pop songs ever. So it's like price tag Domino.
00:11:07
Speaker
Okay, for some people. Party. No, I'm not saying that they're the most amazing, but they're hits is what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely. They're massive hits. Party in the USA, we just celebrated the 40th of July. You know what else? You know what else? The most important one of them all, ladies sovereign.
00:11:24
Speaker
loving or hate me. Yeah, you better work. And you know what, I actually I wrote that on my list. And then I was like, no one's gonna know what this is. Oh, let me take this off. Jeff and I when Jeff and I first became friends, we had a whole moment of with that song in his car. And we were just like, I was like, Jeff, I forgot about this song. Right. I forgot about that little lesbian. Right. Right. I was up with her. What's going on? She turned into JoJo Siwa.
00:11:49
Speaker
Oh my god. Evil Jojo Siwa. She's evil Jojo Siwa. She's evil Jojo Siwa. That is amazing. You know what? The Pokemon of it all makes sense. It really does. The evolution. Yeah. Also, when you were listing this off, too, it was very much giving, like, Aaliyah, Ulysses, Winnie Houston. I was at the list.
00:12:10
Speaker
Or Wendy Williams' beef, which is explaining Azalea Banks' beef with everybody. RZA and SZA. Alan Musk. Alan Musk. My favorite drag queen. That is a huge list of artists and songs. And I do want to say too, with that list, post-2014, even we're talking recently, we're talking Pink Friday too. He was on. I think two songs. Do people talk about that? Lotto's Big Energy.
00:12:38
Speaker
big energy. Yeah. And the big energy remix. And that's the thing is that is that people, you know, I again, I understand people's points, right? Like we, you know, as a consumer, you have the power to listen to whatever you want. And if you don't want to put money into someone's pockets, for whatever reason, it is that you feel you have the absolute power to do that. And that's fine. And in fact, I support that, right? Right.
00:13:02
Speaker
But my issue is that people will go on the internet and tell others what to do and then turn a blind eye for themselves. In fact, I got in a fight with one of my followers the other day saying just that. I was like, are you aware that Dr. Luke has produced these songs? Do you listen to these artists to do these things? And they said, that's not my position to look into. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
00:13:27
Speaker
I was like, wait a minute. Why do you have opinion on it? Right. Right. Yeah. I was like, you're telling me right now that I'm doing this. Yeah. I'm telling you that you are doing the same if you're doing this and you're refusing to listen. And and then so and this is just songs that he's produced and write and or co-written. We're not even talking about the artists that he has signed to his label or a cat and Becky G.
00:13:54
Speaker
Kim Petras. But like everything, her entire discography is him. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Or his prescription songs, music publishing company, which does not get talked about at all. And when I was looking at that list,
00:14:12
Speaker
Ethel Kane was the first person on there. And Ethel Kane is the artist that I kept people seeing bring up that like with the whole feminism movement of it all, that people were like, Katy Perry is making music for people who don't know who Ethel Kane is. And I'm like, Ethel Kane is signed to Dr. Luke's music publishing company.
00:14:30
Speaker
Trust me, when I tell you as someone who does music publishing clearances every day for a job, prescription songs is so involved in almost like 90% of pop music these days. Some of their writers are involved somewhere along the way. Which means that.
00:14:48
Speaker
But what people also need to realize about the industry is that this music industry is built on the backs of terrible men. And it's been like this for decades. Exactly. That's exactly right. And that's exactly like the point Zach and I were talking about last week is the entertainment industry in general has horrible human beings in it. It is not an industry where rainbows and butterflies and sunshine, like, has it ever been portrayed that way? So are we surprised? But to your point earlier,
00:15:17
Speaker
It does feel strange that Katy Perry, like people love to hate her. It doesn't matter what she puts out. It could have been the best song in the entire world. I don't care. Like it could have been Teenage Dream Part Two, the remix, the re-up, Reloaded. You know, like it could have been. But it doesn't matter because people are still going to hate her. Like after Prism, they were just like, no, we're done. Fuck you. And it's I can't explain why, but it's super frustrating because you really don't have a reason. And if Dr. Luke is the reason to your point, Zach,
00:15:47
Speaker
You can't cherry pick. Either be about it 100% or don't be about it at all. But not even that. If we're going to be even more honest, it's also like, stop hanging this type of shit on women. It doesn't matter if it's Katy Perry. Why are we looking for women to be responsible for this man? Stop it. Exactly. That makes me angry. And it's always us gay guys that are always in the comments that are like, well, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, stop it. You're doing it now.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And here's the thing. We don't know why she worked with him. We really don't. And we can draw conclusions. There is a very, very insightful thread about all of the allegations with the Kesha thing on Twitter that I sent to Jeff. I was like, this is actually worth the read. It helped give me a little bit more perspective in the whole situation. Because while I was familiar with the case, there were some details in there that I was like that I did not know very well.
00:16:43
Speaker
But at the end of the day, we don't know why Katy Perry worked with him.
00:16:49
Speaker
a go out and venture given her position in the music industry, which is really interesting because she has not had a hit in quite some time. She's still one of the most talked about musicians in the music industry. But I will venture to say that it probably had something to do with her record label being like, if you don't work with this man, you probably won't have an album to put out. And there it is. Because this is the hit maker that gave you all of your hits back in the day.
00:17:15
Speaker
I think that's exactly right. If people think that that's not a thing and if people think that contracts are not a thing, you are crazy. Yeah. And people online are like saying like, well, she's not obligated to Dr. Luke, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm not saying that she's obligated to Dr. Luke.
00:17:29
Speaker
Trust me when I tell you, you have no idea what's in Katy Perry's contract. Trust me. There is no one on the internet, an armchair warrior, who knows anything about Katy Perry's ironclad contract with her record label. Trust me. Right. Yeah. And the last time she worked with him was Prism, correct? Was that the last time? Correct. And that makes total sense because that was her last slew of hits. And after that, people were like,
00:17:55
Speaker
you know, stop crying on your webcam and on your YouTube videos with your top blonde hair. Like we're tired of seeing. Right. Yeah. After after Cher's label, if people don't think that this happened and that record labels don't have ridiculous demands after Cher's record label dropped her in the 90s before like Believe happened or anything like that. Warner UK signed her on the with the stipulation that she would go for vocal lessons to control her vibrato.
00:18:26
Speaker
So she had to do that in order to put out that it's a man's world album.
00:18:31
Speaker
Right, so if you think that these labels do not demand random ass things of these women, you are sadly mistaken. It happens all the time. Oh gosh, yeah. I would wonder if these contracts also get updated without the artist's consent too. No, because usually they would have, no, their team of lawyers would have to deal with the record labels team of lawyers and go back and forth. So there would be interested parties from both sides battling it out to get
00:18:57
Speaker
Because that's what happens after. So let's say Katy Perry and six songwriters go into a room. They don't sit there and figure out who did the most. They leave after their session and then lawyers from all parties get in and they're just like, well, what did you do? What did you do? You wrote the verse, you wrote the top line, you wrote this. And then they figure out how much percentage each person added to the project.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, in the deposition and the thread that I was reading, Katy Perry stated that she is not contractually obligated to Dr. Luke himself. But again, that does not mean that her label is not sitting there saying, like, we're not putting out another album unless you give us hits. Right. Cher. I'll go back to another Cher reference. After Believe came out, and I think it was either after, don't quote me if I'm wrong, it was either After Believe or it was something somewhere around that time.
00:19:44
Speaker
Cher went to a songwriting camp because she wanted to, I guess, write music and see what that was like. She came back with an album of maybe 12 songs that she had written. I'm sure, Zach, maybe you know what I'm going to talk about. Not commercial. Yes. The record label refused to put it out and told her it was not commercial, so she named the album Not Commercial and sold it herself through her website. I remember that. Believe me, you are beholden to these labels when it comes to the major label system.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah, which is wild. Right. I mean, we see it all the time. We see it all the time with these labels who withhold music. Right.
Similarities Among Pop Stars: Rita Ora & Bebe Rexha
00:20:20
Speaker
And that's what we see a lot of artists leak their own music. Right. And and because labels for whatever reason refuse to put it out or they don't want more.
00:20:30
Speaker
I love her so much. I love her. There's a tweet that I sent Zach a few days ago, and it was like, you guys, if this gets 100,000 tweets, it's from like 20, what, 15 or something. She's like, I'll release some of the music. And then later, it only got like 3,000 retweets or something. And she goes, hey, guys, my account was hacked. Someone's starting to release my music. I would never do that. I'll release it when I'm ready. Oh my god.
00:20:58
Speaker
So good. I love her. I do love her. I know. I know. I actually just listened to Praising You, her version of Cat Boy's Sons Praise You. The other day, I forgot that that was released. And so I was like, yeah. I was so obsessed with Let You Love Me. Yeah. I love that song so much. Jeff, what's your favorite read it or a song? I love that for you.
00:21:20
Speaker
I'd like to be excluded from this narrative. I feel like Rita, Ellora, and B.B. Rex are a little interchangeable for me. They're the same person. No, no, I have a conspiracy theory. It's like Ava Max, B.B. Rex, Rita. Aren't they all Albanian?
00:21:38
Speaker
Oh is it? Rita Ora? I think she is. Rita Ora is Albanian and so is Bibi. I don't know if... Oh no, no, no. Ava Max is Albanian. Ava Max is Albanian. And Bibi is Rex. Bibi is Rex. Bibi is Rex. Bibi is Rex. That's the new album title. Bibi is Rex. I don't know if Rita is. I don't know if Rita is. I feel like she might be. She could be.
00:21:59
Speaker
Look at us pretending like we don't live in the age of internet. Right, seriously. I refuse to Google. Maybe she is. Yeah, who knows? There's like an Albanian, it's like a lab. They just like come out. They go through the nasty Destiny's Child music video. They do, yeah. They go through that conveyor belt. Yeah, she was born in Kosovo.
00:22:25
Speaker
OK, there it is. Yep. Now that you're saying this, I do remember I want to say it was Bebe a few years ago, was trying to get all of the girls together in a pop song. She said that she was right when Ava Max was coming out with Sweet Sweet the Psycho. And because we leave it to now.
00:22:41
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yeah. Four of them? That seems really weird. Industry plants. Seriously. Seriously. Industry plants. See? Industry plants. We got some plants behind you. Right. See? See? Oh, my God. That's so funny. Yeah. But this Katy Perry thing is wild. It's the onslaught that I'm seeing online. And to everyone's point, people acting like they know the situation as if they're like,
00:23:07
Speaker
living next door to her. I'm like, what has happened to the world? Right. It's also like the Nickelback Effect where people are like, oh, you know, we should all just jump on the bandwagon to hate this person for really no reason, because
00:23:23
Speaker
Let me remind you how you remind me is one of the greatest songs of all time. Okay. So it's like people, people won't even like stop to think. They'll just be like, Oh, other people hate this person. I'm going to hate her too. Like, why not? And to your point, why aren't we hating? It's like when, you know,
00:23:40
Speaker
Like when someone, like when a guy cheats on his girlfriend, right? And then the girlfriend gets mad at the girl, it's like, no, you don't get mad at the girl. The girl doesn't matter. You get mad at your boyfriend. Like why is that hatred not being directed towards the other person? Because again, anybody who's going to say this, if you are still streaming this, if you are still streaming Dannity Kane,
00:24:02
Speaker
because I know the gays like to talk, but you should not be streaming Dannity Kane if you are not streaming Dr. Luke. I mean, if you're not streaming, you know, sexual offenders, right, Diddy. So it's like, where are the lines drawn? Because it's like, for years it was the Michael Jackson thing. Now, people don't seem to be bothered as much. His music is on show. Yeah, there's a musical. Right, right. And it's sold out all the time. And it's just like, so. And too, it's also like,
00:24:32
Speaker
It's the consumer, we did not design the way that streaming services pay artists and songwriters and producers. So why is it our fault now that the way that we consume music as a society, why is that the user's fault? Because back in the day, you could buy an MP3, buy a CD, you buy it one time, sure. But then every time you played it, that was
00:24:55
Speaker
that was whatever. And so, but now with every stream, every time you play Teenage Dream, for example, like that money is gonna go into Dr. Luke's pocket. Why? Yeah, it is. And- If we didn't have like the tally numbers on Spotify of how many streams things had or how many listeners, monthly listeners an artist had, we would have a radically different landscape for music right now.
00:25:22
Speaker
We would, we absolutely would. And I have to bring up this too, going back to the Ethel Kane of it all. This is the other part that I get- God, we talk about her a lot lately. We are talking about Ms. Kane. We are paying her bills. We really are. But I have to say this is the other part of it. So when I had people bringing up Ethel Kane and being like, this is the figure of feminism, yada, yada, yada, I was getting into this Twitter battle with some of these twinks.
00:25:48
Speaker
And was just and was just simply trying to point out that Ethel is also signed to prescription songs. And they were like, well, in this article, Ethel said that she didn't know. And in this article said that she's no longer with Dr. Luke's music publishing company. And guess what? I read that article. And that's not true. But guess what? There was no statement in that.
00:26:09
Speaker
But even if that was true, her being the songwriter, she has the opportunity to take her songwriting rights and move them to anywhere else that she chooses. It happens all the time in the music industry. You do not have to keep your songs registered with prescription. Interesting. Very interesting. Because when we deal with stuff, if music rights change, we have to be notified to make sure that we're still legally able to play it in our classes.
00:26:34
Speaker
because they sent me two articles saying that Ethel, one didn't know about the Dr. Luke thing of it all, which I want to get to in a second, but then two said that they no longer worked with Dr. Luke. The article that I found said that Ethel is still in contract with
00:26:51
Speaker
Dr. Luke and has a contract to fulfill with him before she's out of it. And so I'm just kind of like, that is what I see. And I'm, and the point I'm trying to bring up is that people are making shit up now. And this is like, this transpires into a much deeper, darker, scarier shit, like stuff that actually kind of matters at the end of the day, not saying that like,
00:27:11
Speaker
the other allegations don't matter. I'm just saying that like, we are going into election year, right and misinformation and people just make up shit and run with it. And that's the scary part of it all. And I was just like getting so frustrated about that.
00:27:24
Speaker
but if we're looking just based on Spotify alone, this song, Woman's World, on Spotify has just about seven million streams. Seven million streams, it's been out since when? Since July 11th, so that's pretty damn good.
00:27:42
Speaker
If you think that this is going to deter somewhere like I don't like this man is making this industry so much money. And if you think that the industry is going to erase him, it's not going to happen. I'm saying you have absolutely the right to not support him and not stream any of his music. My other favorite example that I like to bring up is when Gaga got all the blowback for Do What You Want with R. Kelly and then was like, oh, well, I'm uploading the Christina version. But you know who's still on the songwriting credits of the Christina version?
00:28:10
Speaker
R. Kelly. Do you know who gets money every time that song is streamed with Christina Aguilera? R. Kelly. Do you know who gets commissary? R. Kelly. R. Kelly. So he can buy a bag of chips? Do you know who's not sure what day it is anymore? R. Kelly. R. Kelly.
00:28:27
Speaker
You know, but again, like that's accountability and great, but like Gaga, that's not what that is. So, but nobody goes after her continually for this. So it's like this pick and choose battle where we just have decided that this is the woman we're gonna hate. It feels very Madonna. It feels very like what I've seen happen to her over the years.
00:28:44
Speaker
Or we could talk about Britney didn't remove Outrageous from streaming. And that's one of the gay's favorite Britney songs. And what's crazy too is that like when I started doing the research about Dr. Luke, the crazy cross section of like where he has worked on so many albums that most of those songs are my favorites. And I had no idea. I could not believe that he has writing credit on Nicki Minaj's Trini Dem Girls.
00:29:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm, yeah. I was like, out of all songs, that one? Really? Well, here's another point that people do not talk about that Doja Cat brought up is that Dr. Luke, because of whatever deals he has made with these artists or the songwriters that he works with or the producers that he works with, sometimes his name gets put on something that he didn't even work on. Doja Cat brought that up. I believe that. She said that his name is on some of my songs we never worked on together.
00:29:39
Speaker
But she just, well, one, obviously she's on his label, but two, she works, is probably working with other songwriters or producers that are also signed with him or that he works with. And therefore if she works with them or any artist works with them, his name is then automatically put on.
00:29:56
Speaker
And we again, we don't talk about this enough. I mean, I'll use an example of this happening that is completely unrelated. Michelle Branch brought this up when she did the second Santana song with the wreckers. I think that was I'm feeling you. She didn't want to do the song. She said, I don't want to do the song. And John Shanks, the producer said, please do the song. We'll give you a rank writing credit for it. So she was like, fine, I'll do it. She got the writing credit for it. She was like, I didn't write that song.
00:30:22
Speaker
Damn. So when Bad Bunny's album came out, I think it's, I don't want to get the name, Un Verano, Un Verano Centi, I think is the name of the album. Yeah. OK, Spanish speaker. Look at me do a lingo.
00:30:37
Speaker
He decided as a good friend that he was going to give one of his friends one percent publishing on every song on the album. He is not a songwriter. He is not a musician. It's just one of his friends that lives, I guess, back home or whatever. I don't remember the exact specifics, but this person, but to help, I guess, or whatever, gave this person one percent publishing.
00:30:58
Speaker
We had to track down this person in a Latin American country and find him and explain to him that in order for us to play it, we need to set you up accounts. You've got to be paid as a songwriter and all this other stuff for somebody who didn't really speak English well and whatever. These things happen. These things happen. So like I said, it's the Wild West in the music industry and people need to realize that.
00:31:22
Speaker
It's crazy. Dr. Luke is on my favorite Britney album, co-executive produced the entire female femme fatale album. Oh, such a good album. It's my favorite Britney album. Not talked about enough. No, it's my favorite. It's top three for me. Yeah. I know Black God is usually the one.
00:31:39
Speaker
Also, Dr. Luke helped produce some Sabi songs. Let's give it up for Sabi. Let's give it the icon that is Sabi. Steaming like a pot full of vegetables. Name another artist. Name another artist. I'll wait. Name another legend that talks about cruciferous vegetables.
00:31:58
Speaker
I don't know any. Right. Right. It's it's and that's the thing is that, again, one of Britney Spears most known songs is Till the World Ends. Right. Circus. Circus. That's also was meant for Kesha. Correct. Just Till the World Ends was, I believe, co-written by Kesha. Yeah. Co-written. OK.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, but still, I mean, it was like it's that entire album because it against me. Hold it against me. Right. Because he's an executive producer. Gasoline. I would assume that he probably gets some sort of percentage or royalty from every stream, even on the songs that he doesn't produce. Right. No, he's he's much more massive than I realized. Right. Right. And I think I think that's kind of the point is like if you're your average music listener, like you don't you don't know. But if you don't know,
00:32:44
Speaker
Why are you hating Katy Perry? It all comes back. It's full circle. It's cyclical. Stop hating Katy Perry. Let her shoot whipped cream out of her tits. That's all we care about. I don't need her to make a bunch of amazing political statements. She can just do her thing and be fun. And I think people hate her too because they hate the girls that are like, I'm a pop star.
00:33:08
Speaker
Like that's just what she is. She's just fun. Like she's just entertainment. She's good, good vibes, good time. And they don't like that for some reason or they're threatened by that and her success because she had so many hits for that really kind of like, I guess short period of time and then just like fell off.
00:33:26
Speaker
And not just like, not just hits, but like massive, massive songs, singles.
Artist Pressures from Record Labels
00:33:32
Speaker
But also it's like, do you, even if somebody like the, the, the ecosystem is made such that even if there was a huge rallying outcry and people were like, never work with Dr. Luke again, never going to be a thing. Do you realize that people just change their names and have aliases? Like Prince did that throughout his entire career. He wrote, he wrote the bangles manic Monday and the, his credited, I think under the name is Alex, nevermind.
00:33:55
Speaker
I love that. Right. I love that. Right. Come on Nils Shorgens or whatever. Nils Shorberg. Yeah. Come on Nils Shorberg, whatever your name is. But that's what I mean. Like Stuart Price has the Thin White Duke. Like that's an alias for him. Like there are people that do this all the time. So it's like, there are ways around this if it were to ever be a thing. But if you think that you're going to divorce Dr. Luke from the current music industry, you would have to have
00:34:20
Speaker
the outcry, at least, of what you're giving to Katy Perry. Go channel it into canceling a terrible man because she didn't do anything wrong. Right. In the words of Chappell, good luck, babe. Right.
00:34:33
Speaker
And I think that we are all trying to say, we are not trying to defend Dr. Luke by any means. At all. Not at all. No, he seems like an asshole. Right. Yeah, totally. Absolute asshole. But we are trying to say that the people that are just doing the absolute most on the internet trying to act like everyone else is the problem. No, this is a huge problem that the music industry needs to figure the fuck out. And it's not our place to figure out for them.
00:35:01
Speaker
Right. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's really. But they're not going to, it's motivated by money. They're not going to figure this out. Right. Unfortunately. Yeah. Unfortunately. I say, I say direct your rage towards Ethel Kane. How about that? No shade. No shade. Right. To Miss Kane. Yeah. You know, couldn't, I know my friend Andrew likes her. I have not listened to her music.
00:35:25
Speaker
I know one song, I think. OK. Yeah. Do you like it? OK, well. Yeah, yeah, because somebody mashed it up. There was like a big mashup going around on TikTok with one of her songs and Robins dancing on my own. And I was like, oh, this actually is good. I like this. I like the original. I'm like, that's kind of cute. I like the Robin version. Right, right, right. Yeah. We're going to go back in the studio, but. Yeah, interesting. I should give it a shot, you know? Right. I feel like you've got to give everybody a shot. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Sometimes they don't. Right.
00:35:53
Speaker
And it also, even now, as things extend and Broadway musicals are happening, his music is touching into Broadway musicals. His music was in the Britney musical. His music is in Ann Juliet on Broadway. The idea that you're going to somehow roll this back by attacking Katy Perry is absolutely ludicrous.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, he's worked predominantly with Max Martin for the majority of his huge hits. Correct. And I would argue that maybe Dr. Luke, just in terms of massive success and just how intricately tied to the music industry is, is probably the closest thing to Max Martin.
00:36:28
Speaker
100% because of that. Like he just, that's fair with everything that we've all said from the production and writing credits to the amount of people that work under him or used to work under him. I mean, circuit, right? Who produced songs on the bra album, but that's circuit said that he no longer works with Max Martin, but did for a very long time. In fact, that's how we were introduced to circuit to the world. He did the remix of below by Kesha.
00:36:55
Speaker
And so, and who knows? I mean, people in interviews, because that's the thing, Ethel Kane in her interview said that she wasn't aware of Dr. Luke or whatever. I mean, I gotta be honest, it's really difficult to imagine that.
00:37:10
Speaker
as a struggling musician in 2020, not know one of the biggest legal cases in America. That's been going on for a decade that many of your favorites have said something about publicly. I mean, her name does sound like someone that was maybe homeschooled, like Little House on the Prairie. So she could maybe have not had any running water internet. Not, oh god. That's the only...
00:37:37
Speaker
thing that could be possible. Because how do you escape that conversation? She's little Nell in the woods. She's Jodie Foster. Right. And that's the thing is that you can't have logical conversations with people on the internet anymore. You can't have a good discourse. And that's what I was trying to say is that they were like,
00:37:56
Speaker
She was saying that she was malnourished and needed to sign something. So she signed. And I was like, I respect, I respect the hustle and the struggle. I get it. We've, we've all experienced hardship. And I said in that conversation, I was like, I've been homeless for eight weeks. I was like, I've been without a car for 10 years. I trust me. I'm sorry. But I also didn't resort to working with a known
00:38:22
Speaker
alleged abuser either. Right. Right. Like not to like tell anyone what to do with their lives. But at the same time, I just I just long story short, I call bullshit on that narrative. Right. Yeah. But again, the other thing again, like when I had said at the top of this was how people seem to be not able to discern satire anymore. Reading even just the wiki, which I pulled up here, even just the wiki with some of the tidbits taken out of what the review said.
00:38:48
Speaker
It is wild to me that these supposed music journalists are not able to understand or have done at least any type of research into who this woman is to have gotten to this point because it's like, what did one say?
00:39:05
Speaker
Alexa Camp of Slant magazine criticized the lyrics as stacked with toothless pseudo inspirational declarations. Yes, that's the point. And then according to Justin Kurtow of Vulture, the song is stuck in vague feminist empowerment, which may have worked in 2014, but full short in 2024. That's not what's happening here. It's satire like I can't and it's one after the next and I'm like, I'm seeing that a lot. Right.
00:39:29
Speaker
It's so bizarre to me that I'm like, how are you, because it was so, as soon as the video started, I'm like, oh, this is so clear to me that this is a joke. I just don't. Especially with the anvil of it all. Right. And then going into the modern world. But like even how they're dancing in the thing is like so. She puts a gas can in her ass. Right. Like a Tesla. Well, not a Tesla, but you know, like a car. Right. Whatever those things are called. No, Jeff, this is serious. That's a serious thing. I put gas in my ass all the time.
00:39:58
Speaker
Like she inflates herself. Like also, again, this is the woman that for the fifth time shoots whipped cream out of her tits. So thank you. And I would just like to go on record that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And that's what if I could, I would. Right. And we love that. Yes. I love I love that so much. I love the campiness that she brings to music.
00:40:20
Speaker
And I think that's like really special. I think that's like a thing that she does well. But I also don't feel like anybody, anybody else is really doing it like that. No. Yeah. Right. And again, like I was saying to people at my job, I was like, is it my favorite thing? No, but it's not Bon Appetit. So I'm happy. Oh.
00:40:42
Speaker
Zach loves that song. I know, I know. I love Bon Appétit! Oh my god, I get off my show! Okay, all right. We agree, we agree. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well now I feel like... Jeff is my safe space. Now I feel like Kitty Perry. I'm starving. Not Bon Appétit for me. No, I'm hungry. No, no, no. That one was the other one I did. Harley's in Hawaii. No thanks.
00:41:03
Speaker
Oh, people love that one. I know. I think Carly's it's cute. It's fine, but I don't. Never really over, though. Love is going to love just is going to devour cute. Like, right. Never really over is like girl. Yes. Well, yeah. Well, when we've got gorgeous coming, we've got gorgeous coming. Yes. So you guys. Wow. We just covered a lot of ground. And I hope you don't hate us.
00:41:27
Speaker
I really want to stress one more time, we are not defending Dr. Luke and the allegations. No, it's a terrible industry. It is a horrible industry, but that's the point we were trying to make is that if you are going to be this social media warrior,
00:41:44
Speaker
You need to not just recognize it in this one instance, you need to recognize it everywhere, regardless of when the music was made before or after the allegations. Any time you stream any one of those songs, it is money in his pocket. Point blank. A wise woman once said, I'm not your bitch. Don't hang your shit on me. And I've never heard wiser words. Ever. Ever.
00:42:11
Speaker
Ever, ever. Gonna get tattooed on me. Ever. Well, boys, this comes to the point in the show where we need to reveal a song that we don't talk about enough. Do you have one? I do. I do. I feel like my, maybe I should go first because I feel like this will be a short discussion. Please, go for it. Because I might be one of the only ones that feels this way. Okay. Justice for this groove by Victoria Beckham.
00:42:39
Speaker
Oh my gosh, say more. So I was doing a little research into this song and I will say one of the shady things that I found out is that the record, so she had left Virgin after the Was It Not Such an Innocent Girl album that came out in 2001. Didn't Do Amazing, which we get. And then I think Virgin dropped her and she went to a UK label called Telstar Records who
00:43:02
Speaker
Apparently, as I was reading it, went out of business because they gave Victoria such a large advance that they did not make back. So. Wow. Right. I was like, oh. I was like, OK. So I am very much the only person who likes this song. But this was a double A side with Let Your Head Go, which was also a bop. But the video for this, her hair has never looked better ever, ever since. I've never seen it. Oh, my god. I will send it to you. It's on YouTube. Some f slur uploaded it. Of course.
00:43:31
Speaker
I love it. I think it's a great pop song. It also samples, I think it's the 80s song by The System, Don't Disturb This Groove, which I love. It's a very, very classic 80s song. So it's just done very well. I mean, it's completely about like phone sex and it's her just being slutty. And I love that. But I don't know. Right. But like, I feel like there are girls that are still maybe putting out pop that are somewhat on the same level as Victoria and are still successful.
00:43:58
Speaker
So she should still have a chance, I think. She should. I think she should. You're not wrong. Right. Yep. Stop the fashion industry immediately. Right. And make another pop album. I mean, I'm ready. There was a whole album that was scrapped that she recorded with Damon Dash, who I also in my research read that when he was trying to make this album with her, he went on on the record saying, if we can make Victoria hot, we can make anyone hot.
00:44:24
Speaker
Probably why during the Return of the Spice Girls tour, instead of a solo song, she literally was just like, I'm just gonna do a catwalk. Right, right. But we were robbed. I was robbed.
Victoria Beckham's Solo Career: Hidden Gems
00:44:35
Speaker
I felt like at least not such an innocent girl, something. Because it's very, that song is so adjacent to Holler, I feel, and that whole album. Oh, I love that song. Me too, me too. I love that every time, what is it, like Rosh Hashanah comes up, it's like, I wanna make you Holler.
00:44:53
Speaker
Stop. I never thought that. It's my favorite thing I could think about. I just want like some bread. Yes. Big shout out to our Jewish listeners out there. Big shout out to the Jewish listeners. We love it. We love you all. Mahayim. Jeff, what is your song that we don't hear about enough? Oh, man. So I actually didn't come prepared today for a song. So I'm going to talk about an album. OK? OK. I'm going to talk about an album. I mean, it's kind of being talked about. I am a big fan. An artist that I'm really watching out for is Miss Romina Wolf.
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah, Remy. Yes. Yes. I mean, if you've listened to this podcast, you know, I love like soul funk, psychedelic pop. That is like my jam. I love that so much. Have you heard radical illusion? Oh, no, radical optimism. Radical delusion. Can I interest you?
00:45:44
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, there's some songs I like on radical optimism, but it wasn't a complete flop for me, and I gotta give my boy Kevin Parker some props.
Romina Wolf's Psychedelic Pop Journey
00:45:51
Speaker
Right, but now, anytime anybody says psychedelic now, I'm like, what? Radical optimism? Right, right, right. This is actually psychedelic, I would say. Right. Dua Lipa's the new Pink Floyd? Right. Right. That's what people are saying. Dua Lipa's the new Pink Floyd. Right. Jeff, the way that you just said, my boy Kevin Parker, you never sounded straighter. I just wanted to say.
00:46:10
Speaker
My boy is me and my boy. Yeah. Oh, there we go. Oh, the turn you got. Right. OK. Didn't mean to turn you on. So this this album is so fun. I don't know what I was expecting because I've seen her in concert. I followed her career for a little bit. She's always been like a little moment. Like it's a very like summer by the pool vibe for me. But, you know, she's released like a slew of singles, which I second I talked about this last episode. Don't love when artists do that. Like I kind of want
00:46:37
Speaker
one or two and then let me listen to the album as the project in full. I agree. Because she released like five or six songs. I mean, girl, I'm like, it's like half the album, you know, but it it really it really did surprise me. Like she took it in different directions and it's just so funky and so fun. And I really think she's just one to watch out for. And I'm just I'm so here for it. And such a fun artist. I would say it was one of the most fun concerts I've ever seen, like one of the most fun performers.
00:47:03
Speaker
Um, does not take her 12 too seriously, but the music is in my opinion, good. So stream big ideas because, you know, it's, it's a pretty good for clear skin. Absolutely. I do. I like her. We've talked to her a bunch of times at work and it's, it's, she's just, she's fantastic. I do. I like her a lot. She seems so fun. She really is so fun. Yeah.
00:47:25
Speaker
Oh my God, I need to check her out. My friend Joey was just playing her in the car the other day when my car broke down. But yeah, so I need to get in this bandwagon because maybe we have another Chapel Rhone on our hands. Look, I actually threw the gauntlet down as far as Peloton goes. And in my last class, I was like, everybody, I was like, if you are in this class or within the sound of my voice and you don't know who Chapel Rhone is and you have kids, they know who Chapel Rhone is.
00:47:50
Speaker
Take a listen. This is going to be the new supreme. I'm just saying it. I agree. I could not agree more. I'm just saying I'm calling it now.
00:47:58
Speaker
Well, I am going to bring this kind of full circle a little bit.
Bonnie McKee's 'Hot City': Album Highlights
00:48:03
Speaker
I want to talk about someone because we haven't had a chance to really talk about it yet. And maybe we can talk about it another time in deeper length. But another person that Katy Perry has worked with in the past is a songwriter named Bonnie McKee. And Bonnie McKee released her long anticipated album, Hot City.
00:48:23
Speaker
earlier, like late spring, I think it was back in May. And there is a song on the, the song's first of all, filled with a bunch of pop bangers. Bombastic is probably the best way that I can describe it. I think there's a song called Bombastic. It's a bombastic. But there's a song on the album that I've been loving called Show You Mine, which is kind of like this dance,
00:48:51
Speaker
borderline complexity inspired sounding record that has a really boisterous summer ready chorus. I would say the album is very summer. Every song gives me summer vibes. There's another song on the album called Snatched that I love. I love Don't Get Mad, Get Famous, which I famously have been saying that I want the Z machine version on streaming. So Bonnie, if you're listening, put it on. He was just actually...
00:49:20
Speaker
I finally just listened to his EP as I was driving home from Philly this weekend. Yeah. I mean, it's so good. She's a surefire, a sure hit, that one. Yeah. I have to say, Zmachine, I mean, Zmachine, I tell them all the time, I'm like, I'm such a fan of your music.
00:49:40
Speaker
truly the quality of the music that he puts out for being a completely self-funded independent artist blows my fucking mind. And if I can also say that I've always found at least in my career like a lot of and I don't want to don't anybody kill me but a lot of gay music artists sometimes
00:50:01
Speaker
fall within a very kind of, I'll say cheesy category. Yes, you can say it. Right. And I never really understood it because I'm like, if we're supposed to be the creative ones, I don't know what's going on here. But some of them are really like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to shade anybody. But it's like, we love cheese, but there's different qualities of cheese. Right, right. Get the fag off the track. I'm not listening to that.
00:50:29
Speaker
Not in my America. Right. Right. Right. Right. Oh, my God. Yeah. And so that's why he's he's one of those where I'm just like, oh, I'm like, the voice is great. And it's just like.
00:50:40
Speaker
is a little Adam Lambert-y, but even, I don't know, it's just those two on a track, that's what I would love. No, literally, and they met at Pride last year, or not last year. Right, because I feel like that's the Divas Live, where it's Celine Dion, Aretha Franklin. Go. Make it happen right now. OK, Adam Lambert, if you're listening, you need to collaborate with Z machine immediately. Right, especially because she's in her gayest era ever.
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, she's about to release After Hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Miss Amber Lambert. Oh, I was like, ooh, what female are we talking about? She? I call her Amber Lambert. I love him. I love him. Oh my god. You know, Justice for his trespassing album. 100%. Great album. Another album with that, I don't think, actually Dr. Luke is on it. Ghost Town, Max Martin.
00:51:32
Speaker
That, oh yeah, different albums, different albums. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, trespassing. But trespassing, yes, Dr. Luke. Max Martin, I think, was also on it, but then also a lot of the producers that worked with Dr. Luke at the time were also on trespassing. And I will say that both of those two, what do you call it, Ghost Town and Another Lonely Night, that's my favorite Adam Lambert song. Yes. It is so good. I love him, I just love his voice so much.
00:51:59
Speaker
All right. Well, we did it. Guys, we really did that. We had our first Eiffel Tower. We had our first Eiffel Tower. It felt great. Pure chaos. Pure chaos, let's say. Yes. And we need to have a Mariah episode for Jeff and I. We really do. I'm always down to have a Mariah episode. Because I mean, we're now at the rainbow's end.
00:52:21
Speaker
Right. Right. Right. I have some thoughts about that. Oh, that sounds serious. OK. OK. Well, on that note, before we get into it deeper, we will all talk to you later. Thanks, you guys. Bye. Bye.