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Queer Pop, Fame & Lady Gaga
282 Plays5 months ago
DJ John Michael returns to the pod to discuss several moments in pop music in recent weeks.
First we take a dive into “Die With A Smile” the brand new duet between Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars.
After, we have a great discussion on queer artists in pop music, specifically highlighting the talented ZEE MACHINE and the release party for his EP “Can I Be Honest...?”
From there we discuss fame and personal boundaries as it was highlighted by Chappell Roan.
We also may or may not give some controversial takes on some of the biggest hits the world has ever seen!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Preview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Pop Theory, everybody. Welcome back. DJ John Michael for I can't even I've lost track. I don't even know. I don't know. It's ah it's a thing. We're in a situation ship at this point. We really are. Yeah, we are. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for for coming on today and just being your amazing self because we've got a there's a lot to cover. There is strangely. There's a strangely i a lot to cover.
Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars Collaboration
00:00:23
Speaker
And I feel like the very first thing that we need to cover is Gaga has finally made her musical return.
00:00:30
Speaker
with none other than Bruno Mars. The collaboration that I don't think anybody was expecting to work. Right. Yeah. Because you would never think those two voices just sonically would work well together.
00:00:44
Speaker
And I think it's a credit to, wait, who is it that produced it? Was it Andrew Watt? Andrew Watt, yeah. Andrew, I think it's a credit seriously to him. Yeah. Because i i as soon as it started, I was like, all right. I said, you know what? this guy Obviously, he's been doing this for a minute, but I feel like he's going to be one to watch the things that he's doing because he just did a similar type of song with Billy Joel, I think.
Andrew Watt's Production Influence
00:01:06
Speaker
it's Leave the light on or something. Oh, yeah. Yep.
00:01:08
Speaker
he was doing that one. And that's a great song. And now hearing that song and now this song and I'm like, Oh, okay, I'm starting to understand your sound a little bit more. huh And I feel like I feel like Andrew Watt could don't quote me on this. I want to say what he was one of the producers for Miley's plastic hearts album.
00:01:26
Speaker
I believe you're right. and and I have to say that that Miley album is probably my favorite Miley album. I feel like that was most authentically her. I thought it was the perfect blend of pop and rock and everything that she kind of loves, kind of swirled into one. I'm looking at his discography now. it's pretty It's pretty hefty. You were right. It's Miley. Yeah, Miley. He did like almost the entire album. Yeah. So yeah, he's great.
Review of 'Die With a Smile'
00:01:53
Speaker
And I have to say the first thing that I thought of when I heard um Die With a Smile was how, just as you said, beautiful their voices blended together. The harm and the the way that they harmonize and compliment one another was truly mind blowing.
00:02:09
Speaker
So I didn't actually, when it came out on midnight, I did i was not, I fell asleep on my couch at like 11 o'clock that night. yeah And the next day I went to work, I was just doing things I wasn't, I didn't really listen to it until later on Friday night. And I watched the video at the same time. I was like, we have it, might as well start with the visuals. Exactly. When it opens the music video, he looks so good.
00:02:33
Speaker
sir Oh my God. I was like, come on. I was like, bone structure. Yes. Like the whole look. So, and then I, I mean, sonically, like, I don't even know what to say. Like I was almost like, it took me like three listens. And then on the third listen, I was like, Oh no, I'm crying. Now I'm crying. Like on the third listen, like it's actually like, it's crazy. Then I caught a TikTok um where, no, a YouTube reaction where this musician was going down and breaking down.
Fan Reactions and Song Length
00:03:01
Speaker
with like music theory, what makes the song so excellent. I have to send that to you too. It's excellent. Yeah. But it really like it's four minutes and 13 seconds.
00:03:11
Speaker
Can we please give it just a little celebration round of applause for that? Like, thank you Gaga and Bruno Mars for providing a song that is longer than two minutes. It gives us a bridge. Like, I don't even like like, it felt like such a treat to receive something like that because we just don't get that anymore.
00:03:33
Speaker
at all. And that's actually the thing that I thought was so interesting is watching the reaction videos or even just like digging through the comments as people were posting about this. Everybody kept saying that exact same thing. And I saw so many people praising the length of the song, as well as saying like,
00:03:50
Speaker
This is music. like We are getting two like iconic, legendary like performers collaborating on music. yeah And they said this song was not made for TikTok, which I think is so funny, because even when you put out really good music, TikTok still finds a way. And they were everybody was doing the Lady God damn thing. Doing the waving. The woman on a washing machine kind of thing. Exactly. which you know and And I have to say, like You sent me that that video earlier today about ah TikTok, and I forget his name. hes That interviewer, oh my gosh. Oh, I'm drawing a blank. Is he from the Breakfast Club? No, no, no. But he does he does all the Hot 97, like the... um Yeah. And he does some Apple music stuff too, right? Yeah, that's that's where I actually know
TikTok's Impact on Music Discovery
00:04:40
Speaker
him from. Yeah, yeah. And so, but he's talking about how there is someone at one record label, and then his son is like the head of the... Ebro. Ebro. Ebro. Thank you.
00:04:51
Speaker
And and that they are you know basically just like two people now from the same family and kind of run you know two major record labels. right And was saying that basically like everything, because record labels rely so much on TikTok now, but the video was, and you could probably speak to this a little bit better than I can, but the video was basically saying that like,
00:05:14
Speaker
the way that you things find music and whatnot on TikTok is through like bots and things of that nature. So it's not even like, it's not like even like humans necessarily are going to these songs. And so essentially what they were trying to say was like, people are saying, Oh, this song's hot on TikTok because basically record labels want, you know, all the metrics of like, what is trending, what is quote, quote, popular right now. But what he was saying was like, is it hot? Is it a good song? Right? Because these bots picked it up. And then every because that's been my thing all along with tik tok and that with like the sped up version of it all. And like the way that like the quality a lot of times people like to make the quality of the music sound like it's like coming through like rattled speakers, you know, I'm like, people don't like this because it's good. It's become more of this like it's like um almost like a meme diversion of music. Right. And you know, what and it's it's really interesting how integrated it is now. And I actually saw this when I was DJing on Saturday night in Philadelphia, because
00:06:15
Speaker
It's the first time that I think I've really like i've played Charli XCX the last time I was down in Philly the last month. but I mean, the Brat album's been out for how long now? Two months? Since June, June 7th, I believe. June 7th? Okay, so now we're August. So yeah, so that's about right. So I really had like one chance to really play like a lot of the Brat album there.
00:06:35
Speaker
And yeah this time around was the first time I decided to play Apple. And as soon as I played it, I was like, I wonder if, and as soon as it happened, so many people on the dance floor doing the TikTok dance, on the dance floor of this nightclub. And I'm like, oh my God. I was like, I don't know if I'm happy about this or if I'm mad about this or how I feel. i said Because in some ways, you know people there are some people that are just vibing and dancing like you know regular, but then yeah People are doing like the full on choreo and I'm like, all right. I said, well, that's, that's very, very interesting. I mean, why I played hot to go like in the last half hour.
00:07:08
Speaker
And of course I saw people doing that, but that was what I wanted them to do. But yeah, it was weird. People holding each other's eyes out, yeah. Yeah, and doing the whole, yeah. Which was fun. And I took a video and I actually posted that on TikTok too. I love that, yeah. But yeah, it's definitely a different world now when it comes to this. And I see the problem that the record labels have pushed themselves into because what I also thought was interesting about what Ibro was saying was that so Lucian Grange, who owns UMG, his son is now the head of Capitol Records.
00:07:38
Speaker
who just went through a massive round of layoffs. okay So it's like, okay, so you guys basically just like restructured so you could put your kid as the head, I guess, I don't know. um Just kind of crazy. but yeah And it's, you know, when I deal with all of the record labels, that's one of the biggest metrics that I hear about. And I mean, and for what we do, as far as Peloton goes, like TikTok doesn't, I don't want to say it doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter in regards to what we do as a ah streaming platform. So it's like, if this is, you know, trending on TikTok,
00:08:07
Speaker
people on our team know about it. People in the coaches, they're aware, everybody's on TikTok. yeah But it's, that seems to be the leading metric. Like, oh, it has this many impressions, this many creations that's been, you the audio has been used this many times. And I'm like,
00:08:21
Speaker
Okay, like that's cool, but you know, it's that's the one thing that I think is good about Peloton is that I have direct feedback all the time in my DMs. If people like something, I read about it immediately. yeah know So yeah it's it's it's a very strange time for the music industry for sure, because again, I think what Ibro was saying goes back to what we keep saying or what I keep bringing up about songs like Despacito, where it's like, as this happens in the streaming era and these massive songs become Massive essentially, you know, are they really like the best song that you've ever heard or is it just
00:08:56
Speaker
a bot farm or a streaming farm because those things do exist, right yeah making it happen. Absolutely. Which I wanted to tell you, by the way, I did hear Despacito. I want to say i wanted to say it was in Chicago when we were there. It wasn't it wasn't at Market Days. it was I want to say when we were like walking to we are walking through Wrigleyville and we are kind of we were walking we were making our way to Boys Town, but we were kind of doing like a roundabout way of getting there because we were trying to find like a quick bite to eat before we went out.
00:09:24
Speaker
And um we heard it out there. And I remember singing to myself, I was like, oh, finally heard it. Finally heard it. All these years later, all these years, that almost 10 years later, like, oh, my God. i Yeah, it's it it is a strange time. And it is interesting, too, with with TikTok, because, you know, obviously there's so many songs and sounds getting picked up that, like, I would argue just at the end of the day are not good. People aren't going and and sitting down and being like, I'm going to listen to this.
00:09:53
Speaker
crackly, loud ass, broken ass version of whatever song it is. But then there is the other side to where it does pick up songs that are really great that maybe you otherwise wouldn't get recognized or, or for sure getting, you know, giving songs a new breath of life, whether it was a past hit, whether it's like maybe a deep cut from someone. And that's the cool thing that I like about TikTok.
00:10:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah, no, because there's been quite a number of artists that I've found on TikTok that I've that have translated into like they've either made it into my sets or they're at least on my Spotify and it's yeah, no, I'm totally here for it. There's an artist that I think you would like her name is Madeline.
00:10:32
Speaker
Okay. I don't know if you, uh, I, she came on my Tik TOK one day because she has, she was, it was like one of those things where they try to hook you. And she was like, you know, my record label said that I would never be successful with this a pop song that's written in French. And it was just like this really great pop song called dopamine. Um, and it was in French and I was like, Oh, this is kind of an earworm. I love this. And I posted about it a few times, but it's really, really excellent. And she's put out other songs. Um,
00:10:56
Speaker
was the last one I think I heard. I'm just here for the beat. You would love that. Okay. You would absolutely, you will eat this up. I will send it to you. Madeline. Okay, please. Madeline, Madeline. Yeah, it's excellent. But I found her on TikTok. And there's been quite a few of those that I found where I'm like, this is cool. I like when it's the indie artists that have a chance to break through. Yes. Because to me, that's the algorithm working
Spotlight on Indie Artist Z Machine
00:11:15
Speaker
perfectly not being Yeah, rigged by a major record label, yeah you know, which speaking of independent music artists, I want to bring this up really quick. And this is a kind of perfect because you're the one that introduced me to him. Z machine just had his EP release show in l LA. And it looked magical. Yes, it did. I Bonnie McKee was there. Bonnie. I was so excited. Z machine. Congratulations. He being in at your show and just like her looking like just like she was just having the best time. Yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
But like truly, it was so cool to see this bar filled with people, fans of his music, everyone's singing along, everyone's singing the radio, like just there. I feel it in my bones is the machines going to have some sort of moment. Maybe not this year, but like sometime in the future.
00:12:06
Speaker
I don't know if it'll be like Chappel Rohn-esque, but like I just feel it in my bones. I think that there's a possibility. I really do. I think that he's got like, and I think that it's yet to be fully, fully realized. Although I think he's super talented, obviously what he's doing right now. But I feel like there's like an Andy Bell, like erasure type. Like there's that moment. Like he's just got that. The voice is so good. Yeah. And it's so strong. I mean, and obviously super talented on guitar too and all that. So it's like, yeah I don't know. And i I don't know who else is doing that, honestly, in like the pop space. i Well, and I said to him, too, I was like something that I just truly get mystified by you and your work is that you're the pop songs that he produces and comes out with. I was like, this is quality pop music. It's not just some sort of and this is no disrespect to anyone. And that you know, but there is so much pop music that is a kind of churned out there that is very
00:13:05
Speaker
for lack, I mean, for whatever reason, just it's not it doesn't seem mindful, right? It seems like it's very thrown together to get put out there. Because because, you know, we do live in this algorithmic time where we artists are basically being forced to churn out song after song after song after song. Yeah. And with Z machine,
00:13:26
Speaker
his music, everything just sounds that the melodies are solid. The lyrics are solid. The song lengths are solid. Like we yeah get like it's just from start to finish. And I mean, singing a Mandarin on right on a heartbreak. Like I just I am truly blown away at his talent.
00:13:49
Speaker
And also, like, I just don't stand male singers very much for whatever reason. And someone asked me the other day, like I was doing like one of those Instagrams, like, just I'm bored, ask me these questions. And someone was like, who's your favorite indie pop girl? And in the answer that I gave, I was like, I was like, oh, probably Robin. But then after I sent that message, and I was like, no, honestly, like my favorite indie pop girl is, well, Zmachine. Like, Zmachine is just, again, time after time after time,
00:14:18
Speaker
putting out quality music. And I'm just constantly impressed with everything. So anyway, it was such a wonderful thing to see that yeah EP release party just be so successful. And I'm so happy for him. 100%. Yeah. And I really like, I'm telling you, there's there's there's a good group of them. I like ah him and Bentley. I think we're both doing great things. Bentley Robles. And I really like to see, it's interesting now seeing a younger sort of queer generation. I mean, Chappel Rhone also falls into this, you know,
00:14:48
Speaker
of pop stars, like just grinding, hustling, and making it actually all happen for themselves. And I love it. And it's it's really, really cool because they are they're using the digital age in a way that other people have not had the opportunity to because it's just so like natural to them. And it's I feel like that that this is the right way to do it. Because I feel like what I see now, like when we talk about the major labels or the you know where where the music industry is having a problem, it's a music industry that's so old that it's trying to catch up. And now you have this new crop of pop stars that are coming up that are like, okay, we don't need you to do that. We'll do it on ourselves. We'll take care of our own brand image. We know what we want to sound like. We know what we want to look like. And we got it from here. And they know how to use
00:15:37
Speaker
these tools, whereas it's, you know, the other one's like, hello, fellow kids, you know, like that sort of yeah that kind of feel to it. So it's like, I love this for them and watching them, all the things they can create like that in this in this ah ah to make it work for them, I think is fantastic.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's really amazing to see. And it's, you know, and i I feel like we've always been kind of at the forefront of using the internet and technology because before it was really safe to be out in public. And you can argue that that's still not fully the case, right? even know And especially in, you know, smaller areas, but you know, we've been able to utilize the internet and create a space for ourselves when there weren't spaces. And so it only feels natural that queer artists are leveraging that to their advantage and creating you know their own music and followings and things. I mean, yeah i look back to the Z machine. I mean, you introduced me to his song, Habit, back in 2022. I think so. Was that 2022? Jeez. I think. And what is time?
00:16:41
Speaker
but But and that that led me down a deep dive of Z Machine's music. And he had only in this like kind of this new era of his musical ah career had only been putting out like a handful of songs at that point. Right. And but but, you know, being able to follow that career now and seeing everything that he's been able to put out and then, you know, leading me to then his tech talk. And when he teased the radio,
00:17:08
Speaker
And that I remember it was that song specifically where I was like, wait the fuck, hold on. Like I was like, this is magical. And really was able to, and i I think that he probably wasn't planning on even finishing that song. I don't know, I'd have to ask him, but like he threw that out there, like a demo of the chorus as just to see ah how people would react and people were like, um when is this coming out? Right, right. And so I just think that's really cool that people are able to to do that now. There's another girl that I actually went down a rabbit hole yesterday. She's a songwriter. Her name is Jex, J-E-X. I saw her on TikTok. She came up in my feed and it said something like, you know, wrote this should I finish it? And it was her sitting at a at a keyboard playing what
00:17:55
Speaker
She described, and I think I would also describe as like Avicii type sounding EDM, but it was like this like extreme, like hooky, hook, hook, hook, hook, hook. And it just like builds and builds and ascends and just goes further up the piano. It was the way she wrote it and sang it was so fantastic. And I was like, oh, I said, the DJs are going to be all over this. Some DJ named, I think Alexander Martin picked it up and did like a big festival sounding style. And I've been following her on TikTok to see like What are the updates? And now I see that it's gotten closer. She's going to put it out. I think it's going to be like a whole thing. And I'm like, I love this because that's incredible. This is what I'm realizing now. And what I feel like a lot of the major labels aren't really understanding is that in a digital world, what I see if I zoom out is the human species. I'm not going to try to get too existential, but the human species, this is almost like a way of like a backlash from all the digital.
00:18:53
Speaker
you need to find a community and you need to build a community from the ground up. And I think that's what chapel did. I think that's what Z machine is doing. I think that's what I see in this instance with this girl Jex. I see like all of this stuff. That's how I feel like you should be using TikTok for your music, not this other way around where it's like, this is the type of artist you've always been. And now you have to change and do all of this stuff that is completely out of your comfort zone. Whereas I think it's for the new generation,
00:19:21
Speaker
They already know how to use it. They know what people are reacting to. Everybody's chronically online and they're using it for their advantage to push their stuff out. You know what I'm saying? Like I hope I'm making sense. Oh, absolutely. yeah It's just this. And what I feel like is that the the major labels are trying to reverse engineer that and it's not working well. And so I think that this is for people like Z and all these other people, I think it's just, it's fantastic and I love watching it.
00:19:45
Speaker
That's the goodness of TikTok for me. that Totally. um But then speaking of Chapel Roan,
Chapel Roan and the Nature of Fame
00:19:52
Speaker
she just put out two TikTok videos, speaking of TikTok of it all, put out two videos kind of talking about her recent experience with fan behavior.
00:20:01
Speaker
And you know, what's and yeah you go first, I was just gonna say it caused a lot of conversation um amongst I mean, I saw this on Twitter. And you know, just just a lot of conversation about like, kind of what is she talking about. And for those of that don't know what we're talking about, chapel went on tik tok and was essentially saying that kind of likening like,
00:20:22
Speaker
When she's recognized in public, she was she was doing a hypothetical thing where she was like, would you go up to a random lady in and the street and ask her to take a photo and then get mad at her if she said no? And kind of was going on and on and on about it, obviously referring to herself. And she was basically kind of talking about how, you know, she understands that this is allegedly like comes with the territory of being famous, but she was like, I'm not okay. She's like, whether or not this is like so comes with the territory, she's like, I'm not okay with like weird harassment behavior.
00:20:52
Speaker
Right. Well, I think also people have stalked members of her family and like found out where her our sister works or something or something like that. Yeah. So obviously the parasocial relationships is a problem in the digital age for sure now yeah in a way that I don't think I've ever seen before. Yeah. um I think it's weird when people say it comes with the territory. I think it yes, it does. There's things that are going to be unavoidable when it comes to fame and celebrity. But yeah. And what's
00:21:23
Speaker
It's easy to say that when you've never experienced it. And I will say, with my narrow point of view on this, because of the visibility of who I am at Peloton, and what I've experienced over the last 10 years, and I am nowhere near as famous as Chaperone. I am nowhere near. You're kind of there. I don't know, I don't know. You're kind of there. It's a specific ecosystem, I would say, overall. Totally, yeah. But whatever it is,
00:21:52
Speaker
Like I said, um <unk>s it's not on a Madonna level and I can't now experiencing what I have, I cannot fathom that type of fame, even what Chappell is going through right now and she's not at a Madonna level. I can't imagine what that would be like because i will I will just give one story. I will never forget the moment when I realized everything was going to change. I think it was like either 2015 or 2016. It was Pride weekend. Brian and I were out. We were on 23rd Street, which is where the old Peloton Studios were. i We started fighting, which is so extremely rare for us. And I don't know, it was just one of those things where like, it's pride, it's hot. Everybody has so much going on. It's chaos to get around the city.
00:22:29
Speaker
and we just started bickering and arguing and we're like on 23rd street like full-on arguing like not yelling screaming causing a scene but like seriously in it with each other and as this is going all of a sudden I hear John Michael and I turn my body just froze and I'm like mid yelling and I'm like and I turned around and it was like a family of people they all had peloton shirts on And I was like, gosh and they were like, Oh my God, we just wanted to say hi, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And like, they want to take photos and do the whole thing. And it was like such a crazy, like,
00:23:04
Speaker
distorted moment where I'm like, you clearly had to have seen that something was going on here. ah Right. You know, like we were clearly arguing. There was no way you could have gotten that close to us and not understood that we were fighting. at Right. yeah And it just that sort of made me realize like, oh, wow, this is that might be different now going forward. And that might be a thing. And so it's sort of it puts you in this weird position to alter how you act in public.
00:23:32
Speaker
Sure. you know And it's like you're not afraid of being caught out there, but it's in a world where everything is so like easy to you know ah twist around. It's a weird thing. So I can't imagine for someone who's literally skyrocketed, it seems.
00:23:48
Speaker
I, that's what we were talking about at work today. I was like, I was like chapel literally. ah So I saw her in April here in Grand Rapids. She played a tiny little venue called the intersection. I don't, I'm so bad at guesstimating crowd numbers. Like you could tell me, you could tell me there was 10,000 people there and you could tell me that there were 2000 people and I would believe you. right they're right right I would be like, absolutely. But no, the the intersection I believe can fit, I think up to like maybe 3000, 4000 people. So if it's a small venue. right And um we saw her there there. I mean, the place was packed. I mean, she clearly had a following and there was a buzz around her. I remember listening to her album back in September of last year. I didn't give it too much attention because I was completely enveloped with Kylie's attention at the time.
00:24:35
Speaker
um And I was like, nothing can take me away from Kylie. And um but so I was familiar with her, my friend Joey, who took me to the concert. We went for his birthday. like He was very into her. ah He was introduced to her through Las Culturistas. But so it was really cool to see. And we were like, oh, wow, this like you know she's really great. She's amazing. I did this amazing cover of Bad Romance.
00:24:57
Speaker
um bye I don't think anyone could have predicted this like sky. i It was shortly after that. I think it started kind of with the one, two punch of Coachella and then her tiny desk concert happening. Yep. And then from and then good luck babe. And then good luck babe. then She had just wrapped up the Olivia Rodrigo opening that I didn't realize until later. I didn't understand why that's I think that's a big piece.
00:25:21
Speaker
ah Yeah, so I think it was just like the stars aligning of those things happening. And then all of a sudden, just this huge, I mean, you look at there's infographs online, but like the skyrocketing of her album, right is we have not really seen anything. Again, we know I feel like we keep bringing up this comparison, but we have not seen anything like this since Gaga. and the And the rise this like super like, right straight up. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's funny, because she's not the one that I would compare her to the most.
00:25:51
Speaker
You know, like I there's definitely influences. I think I think every modern pop star has them. But I yeah, yeah. I see I I don't like in them stylistically like music wise. I think musically they are very different. i'm Visually. Visually. They've got some similarities. But just I'm just talking specifically about the the general public's interest. Oh, yeah. Going from like relatively unknown, pretty much just a conversation amongst the gays in the days yep to All of a sudden, everyone knows who Chapel Road is. and every I mean, going to festivals and seeing 80,000 people do the hot-to-go dance was insane. same i The first time I saw Lady Gaga just dance had just come out. I was like, oh, this is cute. I love it. It's produced by Red One. We love Red One. So cute, whatever. Shout out to Cat Deluna. Right. And we went I went to the Hammerstein Ballroom, which is not an enormous venue here in the city, and she was playing there.
00:26:51
Speaker
she had like i think three openers something crazy and was it hammer stein first yeah no hammer stein was first She barely had a full album at that point. It was fantastic. She had like, it was her, a keyboard, like Two dancers, nothing crazy. And that was it. Next time I saw her was at Terminal 5, another venue in the city. she had I think Semi-Precious Weapons opened for her, Justin Trantner. And Two Door Cinema Club, I think, was also an opener. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. And fantastic. And then she came on again slightly larger. She had a video wall, but still like a slightly larger piano and like three dancers. And then the next thing it was like,
00:27:31
Speaker
Monster ball. so And I was like, oh my God, what has happened? saying WILD. So in that way, I 1000% agree with you. I have not seen anything like this for somebody since her. yeah and and it's And what I think is nice too, though, is that what everybody's reaction that I've seen for the most part on TikTok has been in agreement with her.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah. You know, which I feel like is usually the opposite. People tend to want to be like, who does she think she is? Whatever. And I'm sure there's people that are doing that. But overwhelmingly, the TikToks that I'm seeing are people being like, no, you're absolutely right. Like, please don't do this to her. Yeah. I mean, ah truly, like, you know, i I think about it and, you know, to your point, you know, you experiencing the the little bit of like fame and recognition that you've experienced.
00:28:17
Speaker
I've had even less, but there are moments where that I have been recognized. In fact, at market days, I had two people very kindly come up to me and just say theyre like, hey Hey, I love your account, blah, blah, blah, blah. Very lovely. Shout out to Bo and Nate. If you guys are listening. I love that. um But, but I was thinking to myself too, like, what if I was having a bad night or what it very much those things where like, or like just moments where I'm like, I'm just trying to be by myself. I'm just trying to go from A to B. I mean, I think of that when I run into friends in the real world and thinking about how like, if you're going from A to B, you're running late, you have to do this, you have to do that, whatever. And then running into someone and being like, Oh, you have got to pretend that like everything's great and everything's whatever. Right. i
The Hidden Challenges of Celebrity Life
00:29:02
Speaker
I was leaving work a couple months ago, I had a family member that had passed away was it was one of those things where like, I knew that they were ill. And, you know, obviously, the end was inevitable, we just it kind of didn't know when, right? So so when I got the news, it was like, it it was kind of a shock. And so I, my supervisor let me leave. And so I was running out of work. So obviously not only am I trying to get out of this building that like dozens and dozens and dozens of people work in, but then I'm also running into a bunch of community members that also know me. And and one of my really good friends was walking in with her partner as I was leaving. And I was like, I'm so sorry. you got And I like dropped to the bomb. I was like, I'm really sorry. I just found out a family member passed away. and I've got to get out of here and just right right deal with that.
00:29:47
Speaker
And they were obviously really great, but like my long story short, I'm just thinking about like when you become a celebrity, people's like ability to recognize that that person as a human being is no longer existing. Well, you know what it is? I think it is. Yes, I agree with you. But I think that it's the thing that's weird is I think it depends on the type of celebrity too, because like,
00:30:10
Speaker
For her, I feel like she's everywhere. Yeah. So I think there's that instant, like, you know, people just feel like it when you are that instant and that all over the place, it feels like a commodity because they're on TikTok. They're on T-shirts. You're getting spot your ads. You're getting this. It's a record. It's a variant. It's whatever. Like there's so many things.
00:30:29
Speaker
all the time, that it's just omnipresent, that I feel like people tend to treat celebrities like commodities in that way. The one that I do, people will always come up to me and be like, you live in my house. And I'm like, that's weird. I don't know what what are we what a weird thing to say to somebody. And it's weird because like when you're on a screen in someone's house like that, like they just have this idea of you. And the other thing that's weird about fame and or celebrity is that People say it comes with the job, and there is truth to that, but no one tells you how to handle that. There is no one who can guide you on what to do. And people are like, oh, they have a PR team, and they have no. A PR team is what happens after something has happened. The PR team comes in to clean up the mess. They're not there guiding you. Yeah, well, media training. Media training, you're still a human being. You're still a human being.
00:31:18
Speaker
And again, back to the chapel of like, I don't think anyone could have predicted how quickly this would have happened. So just to really put this into people's brains, like April was only what, four months ago? Something like that? Like it is now August. We'll be getting into September soon. Like I can't imagine going from my life as it was back in April to now. Right.
00:31:44
Speaker
And like just thinking about that, like that's absolutely wild. and like how and And even if there was a between those spans of time to get a little bit of PR in there and a little bit of media training, that's still such a short amount of time. Well, and people don't realize too, like you know it's it's very easy to sit back and judge a piece of art or anything from afar, but it's like there is so much that leads up to these things.
00:32:10
Speaker
there are dancer auditions, band auditions, tryouts, rehearsals, like photo shoots, like everything. like I don't think people understand the amount of time it takes to make something like this happen.
00:32:23
Speaker
let alone doing interviews and radio shows and whatever. And it's like, you know, like a pop star wakes up in the morning, they may have a five a.m. call in Australia, a seven a.m. call in London, a four o'clock call in in New York, you know, and it's just to do like a 15-minute radio interview. And then when they when they're done with that, they record liners for DSPs. Hey, Amazon Music, this is Chappell Rowan and you're listening to Hot To Go, you know, like all of that has to happen. And there is so much that goes into this. And so it's like,
00:32:52
Speaker
to do all of that for the thing that you love and then have people, I think, react to you that way, that's gotta feel super crazy. Like, you're excited that you have an audience, but you don't want them stalking your sister. Right, I don't think that anyone thinks, I mean, like, just, you know, I don't go home thinking to myself, oh, someone's gonna, like, recognize me from right whatever, right? So, like, i I can't imagine where all of a sudden you become so recognizable so that people will follow you, people are gonna stalk your family,
00:33:22
Speaker
Well, and this is the other thing too. And I was actually thinking about this as I was watching the chapel thing ah in regards to J.Lo because I feel like now when I hear stories about J.Lo or really any celebrity, my first thought in my mind is, what did you say?
00:33:40
Speaker
What did you say to them? How did you approach them? Did you walk up? Were you respectful? What were they doing? You know, because it's very easy to turn around and say, Oh, well, I met JLo and she was a bitch. Was she, was she with her children? Was she having dinner with her husband? Like, where was this happening? Like there's so much more.
00:33:57
Speaker
That's the type of context that I look for now because I've had weird experiences about it. So I'm like, I tend to side with people that I'm like, you have no idea what this is like. And the whole, you know, well, you signed up for this. That doesn't really hold water in the real world.
00:34:13
Speaker
No, it's not a real it's ah it's it's you can't you there's no way to predict someone stalking you stalking Right like when the laws don't even protect you in the country that you became famous in like yeah That it's still you're allowed to go that close with the paparazzi. You're allowed to follow people into grocery stores You're allowed to that. There's no laws to protect that You're just out here The law's not even on your side. Right. It's a weird thing. It is a weird thing. And one thing that like, you know, in my early days of, you know, standing pop stars and celebrities and things like that, like you kind of come in or view this world, you kind of think that that like, Oh, because they are famous, that they are automatically rich, right? They automatically have a bodyguard that they have all these things very much not true. Right. And it's very much a lot of times I'm not saying that
00:35:06
Speaker
you know, Chaperone's a quote unquote ordinary person and and doesn't have money. But I would argue that like, again, with the way that this rise just happened, you know, she has not had time to make sense. No, no, not at all. No, it's I can tell you there's way too much happening too fast for her right now. So quick. And so and just and just to kind of put it this all out there, too, like she just this kind of, interestingly enough, coincided with her interview magazine interview with Bowen Yang.
00:35:35
Speaker
And she kind of talks a little bit about this as well. She's kind of talking about processing all of this. And she it sounds like based on the interview had just had the moment and where one of her concerts, she addressed it to the crowd and was just like, I'm not doing well with this right now. Right. This is a lot happening right now. And I don't know, I just you know, my my heart goes out to her and I just hope people understand that, like,
00:36:03
Speaker
Like, yes, like she wouldn't be in her position without you, but that doesn't entitle you to just barge in on hers or anyone's right time. And, you know, I don't know. Because also wouldn't you want it to be like an enjoyable experience? I know this may be like your once in a lifetime moment, but like And I get, I really do understand people being excited. I totally get that because it's a weird thing when somebody comes up to you and they're just crying because they're so excited and you don't know what to do. And it's like, yeah um, but it's, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So like whenever I feel like whenever people come up to me, I'm just like, if they're like super hyper, like excited and like they freak out.
00:36:42
Speaker
I'm like, you know what? Everybody calm down. I was like, we're going to take a photo. I said, man, we want it to be a good photo because you're going to be really upset later if you look at this photo and you look crazy. I said, so let's get it together. I said, everybody just deep breaths, you know, whatever. Like it's it's a thing. So when we were at the early days in Peloton before it really
Fame, Security, and Personal Boundaries
00:37:00
Speaker
became like a thing, we didn't have security there. There wasn't a need for security. That was just as a cycle studio and people were coming in and out. Sure, we were taping it and there was a growing audience, but it really wasn't the thing at the moment.
00:37:10
Speaker
yeah We started having security the day somebody walked in off the street and walked up to one of the coaches and just kissed her right on the face. No word, no warning, no nothing. Just walked up and planted one right on her face. And it was like such a jarring moment that nobody could believe happened. that Oh my gosh. That was when we got security. It was like the day after. Wow. Yeah, good for you guys. Because again, you don't know how to deal with it. No.
00:37:34
Speaker
Because even in ah in a case like Peloton, you think, oh, this is gonna be a thing, maybe it'll be a thing, maybe it'll be big, maybe it'll be a celebrity, maybe but whatever. But you don't really know what that means until it happens. You have no idea what to expect at all. yeah yeah And I always say, fame does not change who you are, it reveals it.
00:37:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm, you know, so I feel like this is gonna be the test when you see chapel Yeah, and but not just with her but also the people around her without a doubt like that's the thing too is that suddenly I mean you hear this all the time where you you sell other celebrities will talk about how All of a sudden they hear from old family members that they never get from there suddenly interest from former lovers or former friends or whatever whatever and it has it is a story that we hear all too often yet we seem to kind of forget every single time every time yeah and that's why like when people do this to these girls like it's it's so wild to me because I'm like we all just collectively went through the free Britney movement yeah and like so yeah what did you learn right what did you learn from any of this like it's so crazy to me and it's like that this is just
00:38:41
Speaker
It's this sort of beast that needs to keep being fed is wild. But yeah I wish nothing but the best for her. She is so unbelievably talented. I cannot wait for more music. I cannot wait for her to just, yeah, yeah just do. Chapel, we love you. And whenever you feel ready, we would love the subway.
00:38:59
Speaker
Oh my god, whenever you're ready, please, please. Whenever you're ready. we We respect your boundaries. We absolutely love you. But whenever you feel ready, I feel ready. Right. As Charlie XCX says, what is it? You want to guess the password to my Google Drive. We have been guessing since, you know, whenever we heard this song. It's like my favorite part of that song. Google. Google Drive. ah Google Drive.
00:39:29
Speaker
I think I might say something stupid. right i just I love her so much. I do. Every interview, I'm like, you, this is you are. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got this. This has become a Charlie XCX stand podcast at this point. It's hard not to. It's hard. She truly is just she really is the real deal. And do you see the TikTok where they were tipping her?
00:39:53
Speaker
No, somebody like handed something was like in the crowd at her concert and love was like handing her something and she had like her glasses on it like a glass of wine. And she's like, what is that? What are you handing me? And she's like, she takes it. She's like, it's money. She's like, why are you giving me tips? She's like, I'll take tips. That's cute. I like that. guy It's so funny.
00:40:11
Speaker
I love that. Why are you giving me money? That weirdly makes me think of Madonna's MDNA tour performance of the mashup that she did of Love Spent and Like a Virgin. Oh, yeah. The piano version. Remember, she was begging for money and she would kind of call out the crowd. Sometimes be like, give me money and beg for being like, you're Madonna. You don't need money.
00:40:35
Speaker
When I saw her at at the Madame X show, when she was auctioning off like the the Polaroids that she was taking, I was like, Girl, do you know how much money I spent on these tickets? Literally. Madonna, we love you. We love you. ah We love you, but you're good. At one of the shows that I went to in Brooklyn, this man showed up with like a wad of cash. Like a stack. Like he knew this was going to happen. And showed up with like, I want to say a few thousand dollars in like bills and just went up there and like handed it to her. And they wow threw it all over the stage. It was wild. Yeah. Oh my gosh. She is. She is. ah Wow. Well.
00:41:11
Speaker
John Michael, this comes to the infamous ah segment of the show where we both need to discuss a song that we feel like is not talked about enough. Do you, sir, have a song that we don't talk about enough?
Underrated Music Appreciation
00:41:26
Speaker
Gwen Stefani, Sirius. Jeff is going to be furious. He's not here right now. Because it is one of the best songs that she's ever done.
00:41:36
Speaker
it really is It really is, and the fact that it we never got a visual, we never got a video, we never got an anything for it, when I am sorry, it is arguably better than some of the singles that came off loving to a music baby. it now So hear me, oh, now hold on.
00:41:53
Speaker
If I'm remembering correctly, Sirius did technically get a music video filmed. I believe you can actually find a like one minute snippet of it online, but they ended up canceling it and going with, I want to say, what was the last single from the album? I don't even remember. because it was Was it Crash? Was it Crash? Yes, I think it was. I think that they ended up going with Crash. I don't know why they canceled it. I i could be wrong. Someone will have to fact check this. Right.
00:42:22
Speaker
but... What an amazing song. It's so good. Everything about it, it's just, she sounds fantastic. It was, I don't know. It just, it sounds like summertime. It just feels like it's like a daydream. Like everything about that song and her little like rap moment in the in the second half of it. Love me got me serious and love me insane. That whole thing I live. Oh my gosh. It's so good. It's like pure bubblegum pop, but I i live for it. That. Love is serious.
00:42:51
Speaker
and no new ben and and and That whole little bit, ugh. You got me serious. It's so good. that That song by her, cool. And I think, ah no, the one, the other under-appreciated one from s Sweet Escape, 4 in the Morning.
00:43:04
Speaker
ah That song kills me. That and Sirius are probably my two favorite Gwen Stefani songs. I Live Four in the Morning is so gorgeous and she looks so beautiful in the music video. Those first two albums, but specifically Love Angel Music Baby, what a pop perfection album. I know Jeff wants to do like an anniversary episode. Oh, 100 percent.
00:43:29
Speaker
that is, with I know one of Jeff's favorite albums of all times, one of mine too. I mean, it's truly, you know what song from that album, this is not my song we don't talk about, but a song that I also feel like is not necessarily appreciated as much is the lead single, What You Waiting For. It's truly, at then its I don't, I don't hear it very much.
00:43:49
Speaker
No, it gets overshadowed by obviously Hollaback Girl and Rich Girl and the other singles from the album. But truly that if if someone were to be like, what's your favorite Gwen Stefani song? That would probably be my answer. Like I love what you wait. and for Oh, without a doubt. It was such a moment because literally nothing sounded like that at the time. Nothing. Shout out to Nelly Hooper, who did some of the stuff with Madonna on the Time Stories album. Like, wow, what a What a moment. Yeah, because arguably like I don't ever need to hear Hollaback Girl again. You know, unfortunately, I agree with you. It's just one of those songs like go I walk around the office at work and I talk about this and I'm like, give me a song you you want to throw away doesn't exist anymore. You never hear it anymore. Oh, it gets to like 4430 in the office and I start walking around and I'm like, close your laptops. Let's talk.
00:44:42
Speaker
Like we're done with work. It's tomorrow's problem. Let's go. Exactly. You know what song I think that I've always said or not always, but like for several years now, Billie Jean might be my song that I just don't need to hear. I feel that.
00:44:57
Speaker
I recognize how iconic it is. I recognize how big of a song it is in the world and how it has inspired so much. But it's one of those songs where I'm just kind of like, I just don't need to hear it anymore. Yeah, yeah. Because of how overplayed it has gotten.
00:45:14
Speaker
Well, and that's like, so on your Instagram, when you did your like pop, whatever, what are those things called the the filter where you like choose one song or the other? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And how, aside from the fact that ours were pretty much the same.
00:45:27
Speaker
um I said, and ive so so many people couldn't believe that I gave up Robin on my own, dancing on my own for other things, and I was like, if it was any other Beyonce song except Crazy in Love, right I would have absolutely, she probably would have won. exactly And even, it's an iconic song, it's amazing in the live show, it has one of my favorite runs that she does live in that, but do I listen to it ever? Not really.
00:45:54
Speaker
I because we don't need to know I heard it so much. We don't need to because we know it is going to be played at the club. We know it's going to be played in the class. We know it's going to be played in God knows where right we don't need to go out of our way to listen to those. And I think that's what makes people like you, myself, Jeff, you know, and and other people that we know who we are, because we know that we are going to go into a space and we'll be like, we will hear the song.
00:46:20
Speaker
right We will hear that song. right now And you could argue that that Bad Romance is one of those songs for sure. Without a doubt. Yeah, but for me, for me Bad Romance has such a special spot just because, I don't know, there was just it just came out at a certain moment in time and it truly yes changed the landscape of music as we knew it at that time period. See, and i feel I feel that way about Just Dance.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's like I just dance is a great song. It's a great pop song. It's iconic It's all the things but if I never heard it again, it's fine There's so much other Gaga that I reach for before I reach for that. Yeah, bad romance is definitely one of them Yeah, yeah I'm surprised. I mean we could dog talk about Gaga at a different time. But before you get to yours I'm surprised that we don't ever hear Monster more than we do. Like, that's just not a Gaga song that people i seem ever talk seem to talk about. And I'm like, it's so good. It's so good, especially at at Halloween time. We're almost into spooky season. So everyone get it get your playlist ripe and ready. for um All the Kim Petras. Literally, literally. Kim Petras. Oh my gosh, Natalia kills.
00:47:24
Speaker
i Live yeah, I live I sorry. Sorry, whatever. I want to she go by now Teddy some teddy something Maybe ted guy not tell Teddy Geiger. Yeah, not Teddy Geiger. I'm like, that's wrong. That's so wrong. As it was coming out, I was like, shut up, shut up. That's so funny. OK, but back to the song
Z Machine and Freddie Mercury Influences
00:47:43
Speaker
that we talked about. If we talked about him earlier, and i just want to I'm obsessed with c Z Machine, and I just i want to give him all the flowers, where they're due. He has a song on his new EP called Kill Shot that I think is absolutely spectacular. The song is like this.
00:48:01
Speaker
big oh gosh how do I even describe it like this big like electro rock glam disco inspired track that truly is like has this explosive chorus there's nothing really out there right now that sounds like it and but there's something about it and I can't put my finger on what it is and I think it's the end of the song reminds me of Kylie Minogue in a way I don't know what it is about it but It is just like this truly explosive song that I absolutely love. I feel like a lot of his music, especially that song too, reminds me of the album albums, maybe more than one, that Freddie Mercury put out in the 80s.
00:48:46
Speaker
He did some solo records. If you don't know the song, I was born to love you, you should look into that because I feel like it feels very much Z Machines music feels a lot like that to me. um Obviously, there's Freddie Mercury influences in Z, like for sure, like there has to be, like I see it. But that it like a lot of his 80s inspired stuff sounds like that type of error for Freddie to me because he was doing like straight up like gay pop in the 80s on his own.
00:49:15
Speaker
yeah And yeah I think he had two albums. i can't that One was living in um Living in Danger, Living in Mercury. I don't remember. And then the other one, I think, was A Great Pretender. But yeah, it um if you you have to listen to I Was Born to Love You. It was a big hit for him in the 80s. I completely forgot that he had some solo albums in the 80s. Yeah. And it's really, really good. It's really gay. It's like super gay. But yeah. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love that. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely that influence in Z machine's music. I think that i when when he had introduced me to Good Boy,
00:49:44
Speaker
um had a little like early preview listen to the song. Um, and no, not to brag, but, um, he played it for me. And like the, like the background vocal parts, I immediately said to him, I was like, this is giving me Freddie Mercury, like queen yeah in the best way. Like I was like, you just don't hear this in music right now. And I was like, this is like the big bombastic. I've been using that word a lot lately, but like big bombastic, like,
00:50:12
Speaker
pop that is missing from pop music right now. Right, right, right. No, 100%. And I was like, you're just going there. And I was like, and I love it. I love that he continues to do it.
DJ Set Dynamics and Musical Successes
00:50:21
Speaker
And so yeah, because let me tell you something. And when you talk about bombastic, like I would when I was DJing. So when I when I DJ in Philadelphia, I break my sets up into like moments like the first hour is like disco, new disco, like very, very poppy, whatever.
00:50:35
Speaker
Second hour is like tech house gets a little bit more serious, a little bit more darker. 12 midnight, we're at like peak hour. It's like hands in the air. Everybody's losing their mind from that to like one o'clock one to 130 is like classics. Whitney, it's not right, but it's okay. Deborah Cox, nobody's supposed to be here, that type of stuff.
00:50:52
Speaker
And then from 1.30 to 2 o'clock, just to bring everybody down, I just do straight up pop tracks. So like for that last half hour, it's like Robin dancing on my own and Jessie J. Bang Bang and like all of that other stuff. um And every time I start,
00:51:08
Speaker
Britney's You Drive Me Crazy, how it's with that piano. No, I have since that song has come out, I have never had a time where I have played that song and it has not shaken the entire room. That is the type of bombastic full tilt pop I want. I love that. That's so good. Yeah. what like i I love. was Is it the original? or that No, no, no, no. It has to be the stuff stop. It has to be the stop.
00:51:38
Speaker
One more note before we go, one song, so back in my like quote unquote DJing days, um but I was at a New Year's Eve party and someone was like, that put in your phone and DJing that way, like an actual DJing. But I put on it, this is probably the biggest shock to me, um but I just want to give her like the flowers here because I just thought it was such a cool moment is that I forget what was on the playlist, but I remember putting it on. And then the song Red Hot Kind of Love by k Christina Aguilera came on. And let me tell you what, I remember running to the bathroom really quick. And when I came back out, the dance floor was filled. And that was probably the biggest shock to me because I was like, this is a deep cut from an album that no one really knows. Right. Right. Those that don't know. Justice for Lotus. Justice for Lotus. And but Red Hot Kind of Love.
00:52:33
Speaker
What a banger yeah and just and just seeing everyone just like get down to that song was a really cool moment because I was like, oh, I was like, I was like, first of all, good for Christina, but also like good for me for taste. Hey, let's say that you can't fake the funk. You can't, you know, can't you sure can't. And that's it's it's if it's good, it's going to make the people move.
00:52:56
Speaker
It's going to make them funky. So well, stay funky, stay fresh. And until next time, thanks for coming on. Enjoy Lotus. Peace out.