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The Real Drug Is Fergie
244 Plays8 months ago
On this episode I am joined by the ICONIC Joe Santini where we go down a deep dive of some of his favorite artists. We talk about everyone from Taylor Swift and Beyoncé to Lorde and Bad Bunny. But there's one special artist in mind who stole the show completely: Stacy "Fergie" Ferguson. You are not going to want to miss this episode and the presentation that Joe gives for one of Fergie's most iconic singles.
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Importance
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh my God, how are you? I'm doing so good. Thank you for having me. I'm just honored. I am honored to have you. Thank you for offering your services, offering your face, offering your voice to this very important podcast. To me, this is the most important podcast there is. There really is. I mean, it's this and then there's nothing else. All other podcasts found dead.
00:00:25
Speaker
To me it's like pop theory, this American life, the daily, and then whatever the hell people listen to. Whatever the hell they listen to. None of
Guest's Experience: Gay Surf Retreat
00:00:34
Speaker
my business. None of your business. How was your day today? What did you do today? Oh, I had a really chill day. I basically had one meeting that I had to go downtown for. I just hosted a gay surf week.
00:00:48
Speaker
which was a lovely little retreat for queer aspiring surfers. And so I was meeting with the founder of that retreat to sort of just like debrief the week. And so it was a lovely little meeting. It looked so much like so much fun. Like it was like I'm not here to like plug it by any means, but it was
00:01:11
Speaker
For me, I started surfing about a decade ago, and I fell in love with the sport and the spiritual element of it, but it is not a queer-friendly thing half the time. Surfing, it's really obnoxiously
00:01:27
Speaker
hetero and masculine and tense and like the lineup which is sort of like how you wait for a wave can be like a very unforgiving space and so yeah which is so weird because you look at surfing and you're like that's gay as shit like it looks like it's so gay it's so gay you're like dancing on water and so
00:01:47
Speaker
to be in a space where like we were, there was like 22 of us in this Bay in Costa Rica. And I was like, there's more gay people in this water than there are straight people. And like, how many times in history has that happened in like a surfing space?
Queer-Friendly Environments in Sports
00:02:01
Speaker
So it was very emotional. It was the best week ever. And I can't do it again.
00:02:04
Speaker
Oh my god, that's so cool. I am completely foreign to surfing, sports in general, like my world, we don't mix. It's always been something that's very intimidating to me. So, I mean, it's completely foreign to me, but it looked like such a blast. The place that you guys were staying at looks stunning.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, like truly like a beautiful little all inclusive surf and wellness camp. Yeah. My question to you based on that is do you think you've never meshed with sports because you're just like naturally it's not your thing or because those spaces have not been like safe for you to practice? I think both. I think both. I think this naturally just never gravitated to me. I have a very vivid memory of being like three or four years old
00:02:51
Speaker
And just playing in my mom and dad's house, my name, my business. And then my dad and his friends watching football and they would get so loud and rambunctious. And I remember being really scared because they would yell at the TV, you know, being, being the macho man that they were.
00:03:08
Speaker
they would yell at the TV and then me being my little like three year old like gay self just being absolutely terrified. So I think that that's probably what started my like disdain for sports because I like equated sports to men seemingly angry at the TV. Yeah, but then yeah, like I probably you know, or I'd not probably like going into life. Sports just always felt very hyper masculine. You know,
00:03:34
Speaker
all of the language that kind of surrounds, you know, players, like if they're not performing well, you know, it's very misogynistic, very homophobic.
Locker Room Culture & Perceptions
00:03:41
Speaker
So yeah, have you always been really athletic?
00:03:45
Speaker
No, absolutely not. I was very much an academic in the sense that a lot of the gifted kids are because we're like, oh, God, I have to be good at something so that when this inevitable, horrifying truth comes out at me, people still like me. So I was not athletic. I was truly a nerd in my speech and debate and all that stuff. But I grew up with siblings, like two brothers.
00:04:10
Speaker
you know, spent most of my summers outside and like always sort of athletic in a sense, but like the competitive like organization of sports, I was like, I can't even be in a locker room. I'm too scared of like these people. So locker room culture is so wild. I could write a book on it. And you know, it's so funny is because my other job is I host month long retreats in an international community. And so many people are like,
00:04:38
Speaker
They imagine the United States as very locker room culture. And I bring this up because we'll be in Japan and there's these naked onsens where they divide by gender. And Americans are the only ones who have any sort of
00:04:54
Speaker
Oh, I don't want to be naked in front of strangers and be weird about that. The international people are like, wait, but you guys are like always naked in like high school and TV and movies and stuff. And it is funny that like in media, the locker room culture that is depicted is like absolutely not the case for like the majority of Americans. And we're so inward and weird about our bodies and like nobody's ever naked in front of one another. And so
00:05:19
Speaker
Well, it's so strange because like locker room culture for me, it's again, I could write it into this could be its own podcast.
Guest Invitations & Pop Music Discussion
00:05:27
Speaker
I think you should do it. I think I should. I want it because in my experience, like it's very my locker room experience. It's very much that. But then there's a there's like a flip side of it where it's very like homoerotic and very much like lots of closeted men by curious men.
00:05:47
Speaker
openly gay men too but it's it's very strong within like the bi-curious like closeted questioning community. Yeah because it's probably their only acceptable in their brain outlet for it. Yeah yeah and so the experiences that I've had experiences that I've witnessed all the things it's so fascinating to me and it can be it can be really hot and exciting it can be
00:06:14
Speaker
fucking creepy as hell. And also and then everything in between all the awkwardness, all the weirdness and all like the other like, what was that, you know, like, I'll never forget there was this one time I was in a steam room and this guy was just like that he had the tiniest little towel barely covering himself. And he was like doing all of these stretches. What he was doing wasn't like sexual by any means, but just the setting and the way he would make eye contact with people and it was just like,
00:06:43
Speaker
So strange and then like I remember it was me and One other guy and then this guy and then he left and then me and the other guy just like looked at each other We're just like what was that? It was wild it was why oh my goodness, okay, we'll win yeah
00:07:00
Speaker
I'll hold my story. I have a weird locker room story, but I'm going to save it for when we do the locker room episode. The locker room episodes, yes. Oh my gosh. That's probably going to be the title up right there, the locker room episode. The locker room episode. The locker room episode. Okay, so here's my question for you. I had reached out on Instagram being like, hey, I'm looking for people to be guests on my podcast.
00:07:23
Speaker
and you reached out. So my question to you is what is your relationship with pop music? Like what is your, yeah, like where did it start? Thank you so much for one having this podcast and then two asking that question. My relationship with pop music, which I imagine is the case for a lot of gay men, started very young sort of like prepubescent and I started hearing these
00:07:47
Speaker
things on the radio that for some reason electrified me more than seemingly anybody else. Like I think some of my earliest memories is like maybe like 18s or like anything on like Radio Disney that was just like silly bubblegum pop and I just remember being like
00:08:07
Speaker
Oh, I really like this. And then probably very quickly figuring out like, Oh, this is bad that I like this. Like there's something like, cause I'm getting signals from like classmates or my siblings or my parents where I'm like, Oh, it's actually not good that I love in sync this much. Or like, it's not great that I really want the Avril Lavigne CD more than like incubus or whatever.
00:08:31
Speaker
Right, yeah. So it started sort of confusing and I actually remember I would stay up so late in like elementary school, sometimes like three in the morning to watch the VH1 top 20 countdown. That to me is like
00:08:48
Speaker
That's some of my most like, pivotable, pivotable, is that? Pivotable. Pivotable. Memory as like an elementary schooler is like before school I would wake up early on my own accord to be like, let's see where pink ended up in the lineup. Because I thought it was so interesting, which if I'm like to pull back and sort of be like an anthropologist about this. Yeah.
00:09:13
Speaker
pop music to me has always been about like what do we as a society and culture like propagate and what do we tear down and like what themes and genres and like specifically artists like what do we tolerate or hype up and then like sort of um
00:09:31
Speaker
like embellish and then what do we not like? Like it's fascinating to me that pop music really is the best way to sort of look at like where society is at any given point of time, specifically probably Western society. And so I'll try to, you know, wrap this up in a sec. But to me, that's like once I got over like the shame involved in like liking this music and I was like, wait,
00:09:56
Speaker
This is just what I naturally want to listen to anyway. And it's fascinating because I can kind of see like how the macro environments affect what is being played on the radio and then vice versa. I just think it is a fascinating, fascinating genre that is oftentimes relegated to being like, this is what annoying girls listen to when in actuality, like, no, this is the status of music industry as a whole. And pop music is just popular music. So why do we?
00:10:26
Speaker
like want to minimize it.
Taylor Swift's Impact on Pop Music
00:10:29
Speaker
Totally. And I think that's so fascinating. I love that you touched on the way that it like kind of I love how you said propagates like in society and just like how it is just kind of it's both like shining a light on what society is but it's also shining a light on what society could be a lot of times. Totally. And
00:10:48
Speaker
I think it truly is very fascinating because I think it's the most interesting type of music in my personal opinion. I agree. And really quick, before I move on to that, I have to say this is turning into a VH1 top 20 stand podcast because my friend Jill, very pivotal for her, my friend Jeff, very pivotal for him, for you, for my friend Jesse, like everyone.
00:11:12
Speaker
I feel like a like an outlier because I I watched VH one but I was more of an MTV kind of girl. Yeah, yeah. And so and actually now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know if I even got VH one at my mom's house at my dad's house we did.
00:11:29
Speaker
But I was at my mom's house the majority of the time. So I was a TRL. I'd be like, mom, we have to forget grocery shopping. I have to be home to watch TRL. Jay Lo's If You Had My Love music video is premiering, and I have to see it. And I think that's what it was for me, is the music video, the visual element, which complements the music, obviously, so specifically. I had to bear witness to it.
00:11:53
Speaker
And it was a time before like YouTube was around. So it was like, this is how I can gain access to this. You had to gain access. And, and like you said before YouTube, you had to make sure that you, if you weren't home, you either like had a recording of some sort, DVR didn't even come out. Wait, how old are you?
00:12:14
Speaker
I'm 30. I just turned 30. Oh my god, 30. Oh my gosh. Congratulations. How does that feel? It feels fine. I mean, I think like, you know, for gay men, maybe I'm speaking too broadly in generalizations here, but like we get the extra decade. So I'm like, oh, it feels like I'm 20 now. You're finally 20.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm finally 20. But yeah, it feels great. 30 is a space where I think a lot of people sort of reflect back and they say like, oh, it's where you're more sure of yourself, you know who you are, you know what you don't like, you know what you need a little bit better, but still with the energetic youth that you don't lose. So yeah, I'm loving it.
00:12:56
Speaker
I love that. No, but your 30s are amazing. Like turning 30 was a really fun time for me. I'm actually going to be 39 in just a couple of weeks. Oh my God, you look great. Thank you. Thanks. See, you're turning almost 29. I'm turning almost 29 and it's going to be amazing. Yeah.
00:13:15
Speaker
the precursor to YouTube. So you'd like like DVR didn't even come out until I don't even remember when like what or mid 2000s or something like that. Yeah, I think I was like in middle school or something. Yeah. So it was like TiVo. So like only some households had it. Right. You and you were rich if you had TiVo like and I was and I we were not that.
00:13:35
Speaker
And so like we had to make sure we were home and then I had dozens of VHS tapes of recorded music videos just from TRL or whatever was going on on MTV. I think I had like recorded like Madonna thons and I was just like every music video. I think that's why like
00:13:54
Speaker
It felt like kind of like a job. I was like a fourth grader that was like, oh shit, I gotta get up at four because I gotta see who's in the top spot. It was like I had to go to work basically. Which is funny because I couldn't like record it and for some reason it wasn't like everything after the morning was like reality TV shows. So the music videos were relegated to like an early AM slot. And so just wild that I was like getting my ass up to go to the basement to like
00:14:22
Speaker
see where 50 Cent is in the lineup. Right, because that was important. It was very important. 50 Cent is one of my sexual awakenings. The Candy Shop music video, specifically watching it on VH1, I was like, oh. Because there's all these like. I do like candy.
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, I get it. Yeah. There's a lollipop there that I'm curious about. You're very curious about. And we we stand a lollipop. Because I remember it was like it was all the women in like their like lingerie and it was just like all these like big breasted, beautiful women. And I was just like,
00:14:57
Speaker
sick. I love that. I love that. There's this one part. I can't even tell you how old I was maybe like nine. There's this one part in the music video where like a girl whips his shirt off and like suddenly he's pretty much as naked as all the other women in the music video. And I was like, wait a damn second. You're like, wait a minute. You're a big breasted woman as well.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I've always said that 50 Cent is a big-breasted woman. 50 Cent is a big-breasted woman that is very much a rule of culture, as you will as the last couple of reasons. Yeah. Rule of culture number 50. Number 52. 50. 50. 50. 50. Curtis Jackson is a big-breasted woman. Big-breasted woman. Wow. He sure is. OK, so this leads me to one of my favorite questions. Whenever I'm getting to know someone, I love to ask people this question.
00:15:47
Speaker
And so in my world, in my head, we are still living in the age of CDs. OK. Yes. And you are stranded on a deserted island. You are the only survivor. You're in a plane crash.
00:15:59
Speaker
And this is a magical island. It gives you a CD player. Help is going to be on the way. You don't know what's going to come. But this magical CD player is going to keep you sane until help arrives. And you can select five of your favorite artists, DJs, bands, whomever. Their entire discography is going to land on this magical CD. What five artists would you choose?
00:16:26
Speaker
Okay, the answer that will always be the answer for me is Lord's Pure Heroin changed my brain. I think I'm just like, the way that people speak about Lana Del Rey, where they were like, I was 13 when ultra-violence came out or something, and it just fundamentally changed them, that was me with Pure Heroin.
00:16:51
Speaker
where I still will listen to that album. And I think even in Solar Power, which is her third album, she references, she says there's some line where she's like, the songs you love at 16 you won't love anymore or something. And I was like,
00:17:06
Speaker
Hold up, bitch. Because I'm still... Speak for yourself. I'm like, that shit you wrote when you were like 14, I'm 30 years old and I'm still like on a train being like... Right? It's harder than ever. Yeah. I pretty much like if I'm on like a road trip or on a train, specifically trains, I will instinctually put on Pure Hairwood. Why specifically trains? What is that? Did you go on a trip somewhere where you listened to that album?
00:17:32
Speaker
I actually, oh my God, it clicked in my brain just now. I studied abroad in the Czech Republic where I was on, you get around by like, what are those called? They're like above ground trains.
00:17:49
Speaker
Okay, subways, not subways, but like... Not subways, oh my god, I feel like an idiot, almost like carts. Yes, yes, I know what you're talking about. I've never been out of the country, so I have no idea. I know, it's terrible. I genuinely feel embarrassed that I can't even think of this word. Anyway, I broke my smartphone over there and I was like a poor college student, and so I bought a little burner phone that could hold 13 songs, basically. And I put Lord's Pure Heroin on it, and so I think I just created a...
00:18:18
Speaker
where I was like, oh, if I'm on public transport, gotta listen to music, and the only 13 songs, it was Lorde's entire Pure Heroin soundtrack, and then one other song which will lead into the next album. But yeah, I think that's why Pure Heroin is just it for me. I love it. I think 400 Lux, which is I think the second song on that, there's something, if you wear headphones, it's sort of like,
00:18:47
Speaker
does that spatial audio where there's like this horns that blur through and I just I still get goosebumps when I listen to it still do oh that's so good okay and so this magical seedy that you get so you get to put all of Lord's discography on this all of them all of them yeah so this is your favorite artists so okay love it yeah okay so you've got Lord you've got four more people
00:19:10
Speaker
Okay, and then so the segue to the Lord Story is the one other song that I had on this phone was Taylor Swift's State of Grace from the Red Album. And I wouldn't even consider myself a Swifty back then. We're now full-blown Swifty insanity.
00:19:33
Speaker
Phone background. There's Taylor Swift. Hi, Taylor. Oh my gosh. I was hiding Bad Bunny because I was going to talk about Bad Bunny. Another spoiler. Something about Taylor Swift, specifically the Red Album.
00:19:48
Speaker
was listening it to it in college, fell in love with it where I was like, oh, this girl who I thought was annoying, actually, like there's some real prowess and talent and like lyricism here, which has, you know, since only grown infinitely. And so, yeah, I guess, I mean, not I guess, Taylor Swift is absolutely for me, one of the top five. And then if it was an album, maybe red.
00:20:11
Speaker
OK, I love that. Wow. I'm actually with you on because like Taylor Taylor's red album. That was my first time where I was like, I think it was We're Never Ever Getting Back Together was a single. Right. And then I remember hearing that and I was like, wait one goddamn minute. I was like, just like you. I was like this annoying girl. I was like, do I actually like this song?
00:20:36
Speaker
And then I remember she had released, I think it was I Knew You Were Trouble, and I liked that as well. But then I loved 22. When I heard 22, I was like, I don't just like this. I was like, I fucking love. Oh, so you're like, you love the bops. You love like the upbeat elevated. Oh, yeah.
00:20:58
Speaker
I am that dance pop gay that I always make fun of on my Instagram account. I am 100 percent that. So, yeah, no, that and like that song for me, I was like, OK, really like this.
00:21:11
Speaker
And then when she went on to the 1989 Arrow, I remember when she released Shake It Off, I was like, I can't get into this. I was like, for whatever reason, I was like, for whatever reason, it's too cheesy. And I love cheesy music. I love it. I unabashedly love it. But I was like, this is too, I was like, it was just too much, too on the nose, I think is what it was. Yeah, definitely. But then she released Out of the Woods.
00:21:36
Speaker
And then that's where I was like, hold the fucking phone. I was like, what is this? Oh, yes. And that's still, I think to this day, out of the woods is my favorite Taylor Swift song.
00:21:50
Speaker
I, one, love that you brought up Out of the Woods, because Out of the Woods, to me, feels like a litmus test for media literacy. Wow. And what I mean by that is there are some people who really understand lyrics, and then there are some people who just like, they like beats production and maybe enjoy a little bit more of a passive experience. And I'm not saying one is better than the other.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, out of the woods to me is an example of like, if you are just passively listening to out of the woods, you're like, all right, this song is kind of repetitive. And like, it's just kind of like the same chorus over again. And like, maybe it's not so nuanced. But if you're actually like, listening to it, and you're like, oh,
00:22:33
Speaker
That repetition serves this story of like a girl who is very anxious and it's the only question you can ask yourself in that state when you're like, I'm with someone who I don't know is
00:22:48
Speaker
maybe with me for the right reasons or vice versa. And the only thing I can ask myself is like, are we over it? Like, are we there yet? Are we out of the woods? Is this over? Which is great because then the follow up to that is like, is it over now? Is it over now? And like, to me, it's like lyrically, it actually makes perfect sense because it's just anxiety.
00:23:08
Speaker
which is what your brain sounds like. You are blowing my mind right now. And where were you in my life 10, 11 years ago? Because I would say the same thing. I was because people would very much criticize it for that and say like the chorus is too repetitive or whatever, whatever. And I was like, it's like a metaphor like when you're lost in the woods and you're and you're like,
00:23:27
Speaker
trying to get out your like survival. Yeah. Are we out of the wizard? That's exactly what you just said. You're repeating this thing over and over again in your head. Kind of similar to like, in a way to like, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? You know, and I oh my god, I love that you just said that. That's Yeah. I love that so much.
00:23:47
Speaker
I do think the whole Taylor Swift divide, maybe media literacy was a little elitist, but I think some people who just genuinely can't comprehend why she's as famous or big as she is, sometimes it's just because people don't listen to lyrics and that's fine. One of my best friends, we have a shared playlist on Spotify.
00:24:11
Speaker
And we like all the same music. And then when we talk about it, I'm like, oh, and what she's saying there is so heartbreaking. And he's like, wait, I didn't, I didn't pick up any of that. I just love how in the bridge it like drops like a tone and stuff. And I'm like, we can all.
00:24:25
Speaker
Like we can like music for different reasons and maybe you don't need to like criticize a celebrity's fame because you're not listening in the way they intend to or something. Right, yeah, for sure. And everyone's, now that we have the internet and social media and everything's so accessible, everyone's a critic. Everyone knows everything now. And Taylor Swift is definitely that girl that everyone feels like they can have an opinion about.
00:24:54
Speaker
Because it's kind of hard not to at the same time.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, and it's really interesting right now where she's going in this direction where, because famously, I will say, I have not fully listened to the Tortured Poets department yet. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a task. Well, especially if you love an upbeat bop, there's none. Well, so the story with this goes is that I may or may not have been sent to this album in advance.
00:25:26
Speaker
May or may not. Off the record. Off the record cannot confirm nor deny. But it was just the first 16 tracks.
00:25:35
Speaker
So the first 60. Yeah. So it wasn't like it wasn't the bonus anthology version. And I so I was skimming through it and I remember like hearing Fortnite and I was like, OK, this is like, you know, this is definitely not what I'm typically gravitate to. But I was like, this is cute, whatever. And then, you know, I started getting into the first I think I listened to the first four or five songs. Then I was just like, OK, this is
00:26:01
Speaker
a little mellow from for what I'm hoping for right now. I also have to say I was very much still and still am on a cowboy Carter high. And so yeah, I was like, this ain't Texas. And so then I started skimming to the album that I heard, you know, I can do it with a broken heart. And I was like, Oh,
00:26:22
Speaker
okay here we go and then and then that was it though i think that's the like as far as i know that's the only like kind of more uptempo song and the album out of 31 songs yeah well and if i can give you one nugget okay give me because i i feel i feel almost like
00:26:39
Speaker
I need to be a missionary for this song. There's a song towards the very end of the double album. So if people are listening to it chronologically, your brain's probably turned off by the very end. I feel like I need to shout from the rooftops that The Bolter is an incredible, fun song. I think it's the second or third to last. And let me just do a quick little pitch for The Bolter. Give it to me.
00:27:07
Speaker
Lyrically, it's beautiful storytelling. We're like the very beginning of a song. She says like, there was a girl who was six years old and she almost drowned in ice and she didn't. And now that girl has grown up and she feels so alive.
00:27:23
Speaker
And the only way she can feel alive like that moment when she was six and survived, you know, falling through the ice is when she's running away from men. Like a wild synopsis for a song. But to me, it is such a beautiful song because it's Taylor Swift kind of doing the opposite of what Taylor Swift does a lot of the times, which is like
00:27:44
Speaker
a lot of her songs are about like being single is like pining or we're looking for love or like we're not being in love so maybe that something's wrong with me and this song is the opposite where it's like actually being single can be fucking fun and it can be a thrill ride and sometimes leaving men is like just as exciting as the romance or the honeymoon phase to begin with and for me who
00:28:07
Speaker
I have a weird job where I move around the world a lot and I don't have the space for a lot of like romantic intimacy. I was like, I feel so seen by this song because the song is called The Bolter because this woman's just running away.
Taylor Swift's Tour & Future Speculations
00:28:20
Speaker
I was just gonna say that, just clicked with me. I was like, The Bolter, got it, she's running away. Yeah, she's Bolter. I think in the song she says like her best mates laugh, they nickname her The Bolter because she's just like, she gets in a relationship and as soon as it gets serious, she's like, see ya.
00:28:35
Speaker
And it's a beautiful song and it's kind of more upbeat, so that's your homework to listen to that. Okay, that is my homework. My coworker, Hannah, is a gigantic Swifty. And she and I are constantly talking about her. And what's funny is that I always say I'm not a Swifty.
00:28:53
Speaker
But I know so much about Taylor and I do admire so much of her work that I was like, I was like, I'm not as swifty in the sense of like, you know, she can like poop in a bucket and I'll be like, yes, queen. But like, I will stick up for her nine times out of 10 and be like, no, she's actually fantastic. She is absolutely fascinating. Like her, hate her. Like she is. She is that girl.
00:29:16
Speaker
I wish people like you were like, you're allowed to be moderate or neutral about her. We live in a world where you got to be divisive and you got to choose a side and it's like, you can actually just like be like, you go girl, I ain't going to your concert though.
00:29:32
Speaker
My friends last summer, we had the opportunity to go. My friend's friend's sister worked for the stadium. I think it's the Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia. And we had the opportunity to get tickets like box seats for like a discounted price, but they were still like $300. And I was like, that is just enough money for me where I was like,
00:29:56
Speaker
I was like, this is a moment right now. I was like, this is a historical tour that is happening. But I was like, I am just not enough of a fan for me to be like, I can justify that. You know, because I was because I was like, it is a three and a half hour show. I was like, I'm going to be there for the pop sections. I was like, can't wait for reputation. But I was like, speak now. I was like, I don't know. You know, so ultimately, ultimately we ended up not going. And but I did go. I did see Aeros tour in theaters. So we got that. Yeah, right. That.
00:30:25
Speaker
What I say about the Aeros tour, it was I went twice, I lucked out. Oh my gosh. I'll try to keep this as short as possible because I can't talk about it as long as possible. I want you to speak. I want you to speak now. Speak now. And speak as long as you'd like.
00:30:43
Speaker
I went back to back nights in Denver the first night I did the whole like, you know, got the Ticketmaster pre verified like in the queue for hours and hours. It was hands down like, and me not being hyperbolic top 10 nights of my life. I love that. It just truly was where I was like,
00:31:03
Speaker
Being in a space with 70,000 people who want to be there just as much as you, there was something energetically about it where I was like, oh, this is religion, this is church, this is special. It was so incredible that as soon as it ended, I had a group of friends that were going the second night and I was like, I will do anything to go again.
00:31:27
Speaker
And so I was on Ticketmaster the next day trying to buy tickets and I'd like put one in my cart. I was like spending way too much money. I was like, I don't have this money, but I'm just, I'm going to go. Like you said, it was a moment. You're like, do I need all 10 toes? Like, you know, which one is going? Yeah. I was like, what do I need to sell? Plasma, sperm, all of the above.
00:31:47
Speaker
And every time I would like put it in my cart hit pay and as it was loading, I'd be like, Joe, you just made the wrong choice. And then every time it would be like ticket not available anymore. And so I was like, you know, maybe that's like a sign. And so I was like, you know, I'm just going to drive my friends to the concert so they can like pregame drop them off. I'll pick them up in a few hours and I'll just rest. And as I was driving to the concert,
00:32:08
Speaker
my best friend from high school, my straight, loving best friend, he calls me and he's like, dude, can you be at the stadium? My stepmom has an extra ticket that she didn't know about. And I was like, oh, I'm like five minutes away. No way. It was, I was in the car with everybody and it was playing over my speakers and so everyone in the car was just like,
00:32:30
Speaker
Oh my god. That was basically Taylor Swift, aka God being like, here you go. Yeah, I do. I do feel special. But here's what I'll say about it. Seeing it. I the sounds pompous that my friend's stepmom does very well for herself. So the extra ticket was club level.
00:32:48
Speaker
OK, so what does that mean? So what does that mean with the as far as like the crowd? Like, are you on the floor? It doesn't mean the floor. It means you're like in that like section above, typically in a stadium, the like 100 section where you're in like the booth, say with like the food and the alcohol provided. Yeah. Yeah. And the second night was fine. Like the first night was religion. And then the second night I was like, oh, I just saw this three hours, 24 hours ago. And now I'm with like people who are like,
00:33:16
Speaker
whereas I'm like screaming and crying. So I was like, oh, you know, the first night was special, the second night unnecessary for me, despite, you know, being the biggest Swifty that I know.
00:33:29
Speaker
But you know what? I'm so glad that you got to experience that because this is truly a tour like this is her blonde ambition tour. You know, this is her totally. This is her fame monster ball tour like this is a her historical tour that all of her fans are going to remember for the rest of their lives. She's literally giving you guys everything that you could have ever wanted because I remember leading up to the tour. I remember thinking I did think to myself, I was like, OK, she's released.
00:33:55
Speaker
Two, I was like, she released Fearless and, or not Fearless, sorry. She released Folklore and Evermore during the pandemic. She released Lover before the pandemic, which she did not before. Yeah, just before. Just before. And then I was like, she released two re-recordings at the time with like enough material to
00:34:16
Speaker
basically count as two albums. So I was like, how the hell is she going to do this tour? And she's midnights and midnights. Yeah. So I'm just like, how the hell and she did it exactly what everyone would have could ever dream is like, I'm just going to do all of all of it. And y'all just going to enjoy it.
00:34:34
Speaker
It's one of those things where it's like when you see it, you're like, how do you, like, I don't know, how do you not understand that this woman's like sole priority in life is like to create art and give it out? Like you're watching someone so wholeheartedly in their element. It's like a beautiful human reminder to be like, fucking stay in your lane and go for it. And if you do, like the right people will come around because it's just unreal.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's truly remarkable. And her work ethic is like, you know, I mean, that's why she's there. I mean, she and she's so dedicated to her art, as you just said, like, she's so the fact that she's now directing her own videos, the fact that she, I mean, she's obviously always written her own music and to anyone who thinks otherwise can suck it, like, you know, everything and she's explored genres. She's I mean, I am fascinated. I will say I would love for her to explore a new genre now.
00:35:32
Speaker
I think she will. I think this tortured poets department, I agree with the sentiment that this was the purge, where she's like, let's get this all out now so we don't have to revisit it. And I think whatever's next is either going to be a return to something more country,
00:35:50
Speaker
Uh-huh. Or I'm hoping for, like, pop dance bops. Like, because she's there. She could do it. Yeah. So what I would love from Taylor, I have two things. Well, one, being the dance pop guy, I would love a straight up dance album. Like, I would love to hear that because especially with her writing, this is what you came for, with Calvin Harris for Vienna. Like, I'm like, she's capable of creating really great dance pop songs, right?
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah, she's good with hooks, too. Like the hooks are usually good. Yeah. But what I was trying to campaign for for the last several years, but maybe I didn't have a strong enough following to like get this into the universe enough. But I so obviously this year is the 10 year anniversary of 1989. And I was like, how sick would it be if she released a follow up, a sister album to 1989 and called it 1999?
00:36:45
Speaker
and it was all like Y2K era inspired pop. Would that not be incredible? Yes, because it can, ah, like more of like a, what's it called, a like butterfly pop? Is that what they call it? Like the Natasha bedding field of it all?
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Floury fun. Yeah. Like I'm thinking I'm almost thinking like teen pop explosion like Backstreet Boys Millennium. Britney Spears baby one more time. Give us you know do these like but make it fresh and new. Like I was like it's totally time that could totally happen. But I just feel but I do feel like she's in this stage right now where
00:37:28
Speaker
She's released so much content over the last few years and now leading up to this 31 track album. I'm like, if she were to do that, it would be too much. And I guess she like give us two years. Give us two years. I'm a huge Swifty. And when she like released that double album, I was like, I have to go to bed. Like I my brain can't handle this. I can't handle it. But but now the streets are saying that she's going to announce a reputation. Taylor's. I'm fine with the you know, the re recordings like
00:37:57
Speaker
I, my gut assumption is she wants to get those over with. Yeah. Like, cause you know, the re-recordings at the beginning, there was like more vault tracks. She said like, I'll do music videos. And like, she was like doing press for like Fearless and all that stuff. And now like 1989, her biggest album, she was just like,
00:38:13
Speaker
run it out like she said enough it was it was done in a week so i i have a feeling like we'll be lucky if we get like music videos for reputation or um her debut but i think she's just trying to get it over with i have to agree yeah i have to say out of all the re-recordings i think i'm most excited about reputation just with all the lore surrounding that album and the alleged like album that she was working on prior to it
00:38:36
Speaker
And I think that that's probably her most experimental album. I agree. So I'm very curious to hear what the vault tracks are on that. And I was never a huge reputation listener because I'm leaning on more of the sad girl bops.
Bad Bunny & Cultural Influence
00:38:55
Speaker
I want to be moody and sort of like home. And your feelings, yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
And then when you watch Reputation Live in the stadium, you're like, oh, fuck. It's the highlight of the show. You get it. It's just, it's power. Yeah, it's totally power. It's totally power. Okay, so we've got... So we've got Lauren Taylor Swift. Who is your next person?
00:39:22
Speaker
Other person on the phone background, Bad Bunny. Benito. Benito. Oh my God, look at him just looking so cute. You know what's absolutely insane is so many people see my phone background and they go, you've met Taylor? And I'm like, do I look like Puerto Rican superstar Bad Bunny? Because I don't think so. Puerto Rican.
00:39:48
Speaker
Bad Bunny, I'm new to the Bad Bunny hype, and I mean that by it's been about two years, and I was working in Ecuador. When you're in Spanish speaking countries, reggaeton is obviously like, it's everywhere, it's their pop music, and it's fun, but I'm not a native Spanish speaker.
00:40:10
Speaker
I don't understand a lot of it. So you're kind of passively listening, which for me, as I've explained, I'm a lyrics girl. I pay attention to the lyrics. And you're like, I like the beat. I like the beat. Yeah. I'm like, oh, OK. I don't know what this is. And then something clicked. I think everybody has experienced that with one artist or another, where you know you should have liked them for a long time. And you're like, ah, whatever. And then all of a sudden, I think it was,
00:40:37
Speaker
I think I couldn't sleep one night. And so I was just in Ecuador like scrolling on like his Wikipedia because I'm like, all right, what is Bad Bunny? Like, let's figure this out. And then I watched like three music videos and then like four hours had gone by and it was like five in the morning and I was like, I get it. I understand it. And he is now the most important person in my life.
00:40:56
Speaker
And there's something about him. This is what I tell my friends. I think he walks the walk in terms of his queer allyship. He is- Absolutely.
00:41:11
Speaker
He's just such an ally. He's so fun. He's like an ally for a community that like, you know, is I think Latinos typically struggle with like the hypermasculinization of those communities a lot more often. I think Puerto Rico is like a huge
00:41:28
Speaker
like hyper-masculine culture where like a lot of the progressive LGBT issues are a little bit behind in a lot of these spaces. And so to have like the biggest, like truly like the most listened to person on Spotify, like year after year after year, be like such an advocate. So fun. Here's a song called Yo Pero Sola, which is like,
00:41:49
Speaker
basically saying like let her dance by herself like if she says no stay away from her and that's the music video where he's in like full drag yeah and it's like this is like this is the biggest superstar on the planet and like a genre that is kind of maybe not the most gay friendly and he's just like fucking going for it and so
00:42:09
Speaker
who knows like there's a lot of speculation on his sexuality if he's firmly straight at the end of the day i don't care like he's just uh you can tell he's like a good human who like yeah just makes fun lovey wonderful music and he's experimental and like a little weird so yeah i love no and i love that like i love his grimy performance i think it wasn't this year i think it was last year was so fun i love that when he kissed the dude
00:42:34
Speaker
That was the VMAs and I loved that too. Yeah VMAs that was so I love I love a same-sex kiss. We love a same-sex kiss Famously famously and but no his Grammys performance it was just very like colorful and very vibrant and very just like in a very much representative of like Puerto Rican musical culture and things like that and I was just like
00:42:56
Speaker
I was, I love Latin music. Like I'm actually a huge, it really is. And I was like, I'm a huge Gloria Estefan fan. And so like, and I just, whenever I listened to her music or, you know, watching like the JLo Shakira
00:43:12
Speaker
halftime show like it's so vibrant and energetic and fun and celebratory. And I was like, so I love your appreciation for Bad Bunny. Like, yeah, because and his ally chef. I mean, it's amazing. I'm I'm rooting for a collaboration with Gaga because I know how much he loves Gaga.
00:43:33
Speaker
And when she introduced him on SNL, would that not be amazing? It would be, yeah, just life-changing. I can't even wax poetic on it, just truly life-changing. Life-changing. I'm ready for it. Make it happen. Make it happen. Gaga, come on. Bobby Campbell, if you're listening, he's just one of my Instagram posts. That's her manager. Bobby? Bobby?
00:43:55
Speaker
Bobby, this is to you. This is to you make lead single Bad Bunny Bad Bunny, even though we've already heard a snippet of the of the lead single remix. We have. Have you watched the chromatica ball film? Oh, no, not yet. Okay, I don't have HBO. Oh, my God. I'll give you my but wait, I saw I saw the very end where is that the snippet? There's a snippet. So if you have to turn it up, so it's really quiet. But there is an eight second snippet of a new song.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds very synth pop very it sounds like a continuation from chromatica. So we'll see. We'll see. I mean, who knows. Sometimes lead singles are like the transition where they're like, remember what you're used to. Here's the direction we're moving into. So exactly. It's new. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited. I mean, whatever she is now she's my Taylor Swift where like she could shit in a bucket and I'll be like, yes, queen. Oh my God. Give me more.
00:44:46
Speaker
And so, yeah. And so, yeah, I love that. OK, so we've got we've got Lord. We got Taylor Swift. We've got Bad Boonie. Who's the next person?
Beyoncé's Career & Cultural Themes
00:44:57
Speaker
The next person.
00:44:58
Speaker
Beyonce. Beyonce. Beyonce. Beyonce. Beyonce. Have you seen the video? Oh yeah, wait. Related to that, the meme where the girl keeps switching sides, basically. Have you seen that where they're like, Beyonce or Dua Lipa? And she's like, oh, Dua Lipa. Dua Lipa or blah, blah, blah. I, this whole weekend, kept saying, oh, Selena Gomez, because of what she's been through, and she's still singing.
00:45:24
Speaker
For some reason that to me was like the funniest two sentences I've heard in a very long time. So funny. Oh my god. Anyways, every time I log on Twitter that video like shows up. I know it's all it's always on Twitter until I want to show someone and then I'm like shit Where's the book market? Of course. Yeah, oh Selena Gomez because of what she's been through
00:45:48
Speaker
Anyway, Beyonce. Beyonce is someone I was a casual listener for a long time and each album that she releases makes me retroactively understand her more. I wonder if there's like a commentary about this where like
00:46:06
Speaker
Like when Taylor releases an album, even if I don't get it entirely, I've just like eat it up and I'm like, oh, I get what she's trying to do. Whereas Beyonce, it's kind of the opposite where like when Beyonce releases an album, I go, oh, I get what she did, which is like maybe like bias and how we treat black artists versus white artists, who knows? But like for me, I always like enjoyed Beyonce pretty casually. And then it's these last three albums with like,
00:46:33
Speaker
lemonade renaissance cowboy carter where i'm like oh this is this is generational talent this is an artist who like understands their importance it is not wasting a second it like it makes me emotional thinking about like what she did with cowboy carter in this like you know probable renaissance trilogy
00:46:55
Speaker
to me feels like the greatest musical undertaking in such a long time and the way I've interpreted which you know it's it's it's less about like how I've individually interpreted and just sort of like the discourse around it where I'm like there here's a woman who like
00:47:12
Speaker
is taking big experimental risks and taking her time to center the Black experience and genres that were created by those artists and then they got relegated to the side. And so with house music and then country music and then the probable maybe rock album that people are talking about, fingers crossed.
00:47:33
Speaker
And to me, I think that sort of maybe thesis really comes apparent in the Ape Shit music video with her and Jay-Z, where they're in the Louvre and they're basically supplementing Black performers in front of all of these historic artworks where there's not Black people in it. That music video ends with Jay-Z and Beyoncé in front of the Mona Lisa.
00:47:59
Speaker
And I'm like, I think this is their arc for both of their careers. Is they're like, we understand we're important and we need to make sure you understand we're important. And it's not like an ego thing. It's like a true music history thing. And I'm just like, I'm in awe of Beyonce. And so like, this is like in the last few years where I'm like,
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah, she's she's top five now. We're like, yeah, previously not wasn't. Yeah. And what I love about Beyonce is that like, you know, it's very, it's very clear in her discography that like once she released her self titled album, that was where she took the turn where she was like, I no longer care about being
00:48:41
Speaker
this chart chaser, right? I'm not gonna turn out the hits necessarily in the way that you want me to. I'm going to create music that is important to me. I'm going to create albums. I'm going to create visuals. I'm going to be this performer. I'm going to be this artist and be a voice for a community of people who are oftentimes, you know, silenced and
00:49:04
Speaker
let the work speak for itself. I love that she doesn't give interviews, even though as much as I would love it, as much as I would love to sit down with Beyonce and be like, talk to me about your creative process. Like I love that she's just like, I'm going to let my music and my art speak for itself. And I love that she is
00:49:23
Speaker
Making music that sometimes yeah, sometimes right away. It's not going to necessarily click I remember that I'm now Renaissance is one of my favorite albums of hers cowboy Carter easily one of my favorite albums of hers Cowboy Carter is interesting for me because I'm not typically a country music fan. It's not it's not a genre I typically gravitate too much in the same way of like sports like I just feel like not only is country a
00:49:46
Speaker
oftentimes seen as very racist, but it's also seen as very homophobic at times, and it's just never been a genre for me. But this album, I feel guilty if I seek out a track on the album. I have to, like, when I start it, I have to listen to it the entire way through. But I love that she's creating music that isn't always going to necessarily be that poppy, catchy. Because, you know, I make fun of myself being the dance pop gay, but, like, I love a lot of experimental pop music.
00:50:14
Speaker
And this album specifically is one of those albums where you're going to have some strange stuff. You're going to have some stuff that isn't going to necessarily grab you right away, but it's going to build and grow. And the more you listen to it, you hear the layers, you hear the textures, you understand the lyrics more, you discover it. There's so much to unpack on this album. You could probably dedicate an entire podcast series to the album and still find things that you're still discovering. You absolutely can. Yeah, with Cowboy Carter.
Emerging Artists & Cultural Impact
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah. It was one of those things where when I first heard Renaissance, I was like, oh, interesting. I don't know if this is entirely for me. Obviously, you spend one summer as a gay man, you love Renaissance by the end of it. Exactly. But even with Cowboy Carter, I was driving to go see the eclipse right when Cowboy Carter came out. Yeah. And so I listened to it. And then as soon as it ended, I was like, and now I'm going to listen to Renaissance.
00:51:10
Speaker
Because it almost feels like it leads into it. And a lot of people think maybe one was supposed to be act one or the other. And then I listened to Renaissance the whole way through on the Strive. And I was also like, my God, this is so good. And retroactively, I was just like, exactly what you said, the layers and the textures to the music. And even the choices of like,
00:51:30
Speaker
featuring those black country singers in Blackbird. I'm a huge Tanner Adele fan. She has had that EP, Buckle Bunny, that is so good. Was that influenced by a certain someone that we both know?
00:51:46
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Our lovely, lovely friend, Devin Way. Hey, Devin. Hey. Devin showed me Buckle Bunny and then together we listened to the EP. And I was in the car with Devin when I think I heard Bake It. There's a song called Bake It on the EP. And if you listen to the song, it's like it's fun. It's dancy and pop. But we were so taken aback because we were like,
00:52:07
Speaker
Oh, this is the type of artist Tanner Adele is like she's fun, lyrically, like immaculate storytelling and then also like experimental. We were listening to the song called bake it another one of your homework assignments, and my friend Devin starts crying, because it was just so like
00:52:24
Speaker
Oh, my God, there's there's people making music for us. Yeah, absolutely. Is that the one? Was there like a drum break, like a dance break that happens in that song? What song? Yes, it feels very pussycat dolls. Yes. Yes, that was it. So he had. So shout out to Devin because I got out to Devin. He introduced me to Tanner Adele maybe three or four weeks prior to Cowboy Carter coming out.
00:52:48
Speaker
I forgot. He was like, I'm going to text my friend to have him blast this out. Yeah. And so he sent me this. He was like, Zach, I need to know your, he's like, you have taste. Let me know. And I was really honest with him. I was like, I'll be honest. I was like, country's not typically my thing. I listened to the EP and I was like, I like some of it. I was like, for me, I would like to see exploration more in these particular areas. So it didn't come.
00:53:13
Speaker
Completely captivate me and the way that I think that he had hoped Well, and she's firmly kind of a country artist. Yeah, but I will say bake it was one of them that stuck out to me Incredibly there's one a song of that strawberry something or strawberry crush. Yeah, it's like very sapphic Yeah, and I was like what is this what she's thinking about and then but I remember just like
00:53:37
Speaker
I thought that was really interesting that I remember messaging him then after Cowboy Carter was released and I was like, Oh my God, Tanner. I was like, your girl's on cowboy Carter. No granted. We're on like a three or four hour time difference. And I wake up at like four 30 in the morning every single day. And so I'm like waiting all day long. And then finally I get a message from him. Yeah. And then I finally get a message from him. He's like, Oh my God. And so that was really fun moment. And I think for me, the reason why her EP didn't stick out to me because I
00:54:04
Speaker
very tirelessly keep talking about how sick of short songs I am. And I think- Short. And a lot of the songs are short. And I don't think that's necessarily blame any artists right now. I do think that that is a record label issue based on streaming and TikTok. Yeah. So it's not her fault. Tanner, we love you. We stan. And yeah. Yeah. I mean, just, yeah. Cannot wait to see her live. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure she's going to put on a great show.
00:54:34
Speaker
I think I think we're going to try to go there. There's some. Well, I think when we when we first listened to the EP, we looked at our schedule and there was minimal days. And now I think because of Cowboy Carter music festival season, I think there's a lot more. So I need to circle back. But Tanner, I'm coming for you. We're coming for you, baby. Oh, my God. OK, so we've got.
00:54:53
Speaker
Lord, Taylor Swift, Benito, Bed Bunny. Benito. I call him Benito. Benito. And then Beyonce. Beyonce. Yeah. Or as my nephew would have said, be one say.
00:55:07
Speaker
So cute. So cute. Very cute. Yeah. Number five, and I'm changing it right now in the moment. Oh my god. OK, you heard it here first, folks. Because I was going to say an artist who I will reference later with the visual element. But I've just, I am so head over heels in love with Chappel Rowan. Yes. I've seen her perform twice. This feels insane to say, but when
00:55:37
Speaker
What's the thumbs down? Oh, I don't know. What is that? Oh my god. Oh my god. Zach's bias. Zach famously hates Chapel Roan. Yeah. Oh my gosh. No, love her. Seemingly, she would be like into that. She'd be like, oh, quirky, cool. Yeah. She'd be like, yeah, fuck me up, Daddy. She's so jizzy. Draggy.
00:55:57
Speaker
I think the Rise and Fall of the Midwest Princess, that album, like you said, that is someone who made a fucking album. It tells such an incredibly beautiful story. She has her fun, dancey pop. She has her ballads. She is showing off
00:56:14
Speaker
this vocal it's like I've heard people reference like Appalachian pop because it's very yeah I love that it's an artist we're like if you know a little bit of the Chaperone backstory like she went to LA got signed with a record deal
00:56:30
Speaker
And I think they didn't know what to do with her, because she's weird, she's queer, she's pretty much a drag artist. And then they dropped her, she left, and then was like, actually I'm gonna go back and give it one last shot, all at the ripe age of 20 or whatever.
00:56:47
Speaker
So just like sonically, visually, and then these live performances, she's got it. And when people say, I'm not claiming this, but some people say it's giving like Gaga year one. And I kind of agree. She's really tapping into something that everybody's hungry for. I think she just performed at a music festival and she had more people in the audience than the headliner.
00:57:16
Speaker
It was like her then the killers and there was more people at Chapel Road than the killers. No. And so like it's a fun time to like watch her. So it is and good luck, babe. Her latest single. Excellent. Excellent. Good. So good. It gets stuck in my head all the time. Yes. She so I was lucky enough to see her recently here in Grand Rapids. My friend Joey invited me.
00:57:40
Speaker
and it was me, him, our friends, Hailey and Sam and Abby, and we had the best time. The show was at this tiny little venue called The Intersection, but it was like, everyone was dressed up. It is very reminiscent of early Gaga. Very reminiscent. Okay. Well, the fact that you said it, then I believe it a little bit more. You know what? Just believe it. Believe it. When you saw her, did she do her cover of Bad Romance?
00:58:09
Speaker
She did her cover, which was exceptional. Instead of openers having just local drag performers, it's so fun and actually very politically poignant. She's got it. She's fun. She's so fun. I love things that hurt. Yeah. Because if I'm thinking about an album that I will consume daily and just putting stuff on, I'm definitely putting on her.
00:58:36
Speaker
And I'm excited because I think her next one, she's working with Deya Nitro of Olivia Rodrigo, you know, production. So there's some good shit that's definitely on the way. We aren't ready. We aren't ready. We aren't ready, but we are. Like, and you know, she's awesome. I'm hungry. I'm hungry.
00:58:53
Speaker
Mama, I am hungry. She gives me also, are you familiar with Annie Lennox from the Erythmics? Yes. She gives me a lot of Annie Lennox vibes. Oh, that's a good comparison. Yeah. Like, because Annie was... French. Annie was just very like theatrical in a very like...
00:59:14
Speaker
androgynous way did kind of a lot of drag themes throughout her visuals as well early in her or like in the arrhythmics and then when she you know went solo and so and just like the melodies like musically yeah i hear i think that's a great comparison i love her yeah so ah
00:59:33
Speaker
Excellent choices, sir. Thank you. I mean, they're kind of basic. And I was telling someone not that long ago where sometimes I almost feel embarrassed that Lorde is the top of the pyramid for me. Why? Because it's not that I'm embarrassed because I love her art, but she's not prolific. She's not pumping them out. Taylor Swift releases pretty much her entire discography in a night in terms of quantity. Yeah, exactly.
00:59:58
Speaker
Um, but there's just, there's something about her. We're like, I've never seen her live either, which is a big bummer, but I'm coming for you. Ella, Ella, Ella, we're, we're going to come for you. I love how much you pay attention to lyrics. Cause I'm definitely one of those people who it's hit or miss with me. Sometimes I pay attention to the lyrics and to other times I, it takes months for me to be like, Oh,
01:00:22
Speaker
Oh, that's what they're saying, you know?
Pop Music & Personal Connections
01:00:25
Speaker
I absorb it. You do. I was like, you have a very deep connection with lyricism. You wrote a book of poems, right? Yeah, I just released a poetry collection and I've said that my poetry is more inspired by pop music than it is by other poets. Oh, interesting.
01:00:44
Speaker
Like if you read some of my poetry, there's a lyrical element to a lot of them. Like a lot of the pieces that aren't prose or like fit more in like a more traditional poem format. Like they feel lyrical as if they could be a verse. And I think that's because my brain digests lyrics immediately. And then that becomes like my my like prototype for wordsmithing. So yeah. I love how long have you been doing poetry?
01:01:14
Speaker
So my, it's hard to say because my, the poetry collection I just released, which is called the degradation of a very good gay, it was me taking my journals from 20 to 29 and synthesizing it. So some of them were poems already, but they were like,
01:01:32
Speaker
you know, moody, bad, half-hearted, never thought they would ever see the light of day. And then the other poems I had wrote about things that were in those journals where I was like, oh, it seemed like I thought about this a lot. So let me write a new poem based on that. So what I was doing was I was like cataloging the queer experience for me in my 20s. And so
01:01:51
Speaker
Wow. Oh my gosh. I need to get my hands on a copy of this. This is amazing. I'll send one to you. Oh my gosh. No, I want to support you. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, links in my bio. Okay. I love that. That's so cool. Because yeah, because you're an artist. What other mediums do you dabble in?
01:02:08
Speaker
Well, mostly like writing. Mostly writing. And I was so fortunate at the beginning of this year to develop that poetry collection in an art residency. That's okay, because I remember you telling me that you are in this art residency, because that's because you were in LA for a little bit for that, right?
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I was in Orange County and so I would bop up to LA all the time. Okay. It was so much fun. Yeah. And yeah, it was just an incredible experience to like have time and space and money to create. And then what I created was obviously a lot of word based art, but the book itself is supposed to mirror what my journals look like, which I have them literally everywhere.
01:02:47
Speaker
I love which like if you open up my journal, there's like there's things taped into them and there's like rips and stuff. And so that's the book. I had to like teach myself Photoshop and like Illustrator because I wanted it to feel like you're reading a diary that you really shouldn't be. Yeah. So it looks just like that. So yeah, it's fun. It's like a fun book to you can like knock it out in like probably like 60 minutes.
01:03:13
Speaker
Hey, let's celebrate that. Oh my God. A short read. A short read. A tight album. No skips. No skips. Oh my God. I can't wait to read it. That sounds amazing. I love that. That's so cool. Thank you. Yeah. The response has been really amazing. Some people, and actually this is maybe sort of connecting to the pop music of it all. Some people read it and they're like, that was cool. I guess what you were doing was fun. And then other people are like,
01:03:39
Speaker
Oh, like I've had one girl say she's showed some of the pieces to her mom so her mom can better understand. I've had a friend come out to me after reading it and it was like this helped them sort of put some pieces together. So I was like.
01:03:55
Speaker
This is, I guess, sort of what I want to tell all artists is like, just create shit because it may fall flat on some people's ears and that's fine. And art has no responsibility to do that. Or it may be like a fundamental sort of shift for another person. So just please put stuff out. And even if your initial response isn't what you hoped for, like solar power, maybe.
01:04:18
Speaker
Maybe it will age well, so who knows? That's right, and sometimes you can be way ahead of the curve, you know? Sometimes people just aren't ready for it. Okay, Joe, we've come to the section of this podcast where we like to talk about a song that we feel is not talked about enough. Do you have a song that is not talked about enough?
01:04:42
Speaker
I have the song. The song. The song. And let me get my visual medium. I'm taking off the headphones so I can't hear what you say, but I have to set it up first. Okay, okay. Okay.
01:04:56
Speaker
You can describe what I'm doing. OK, Joe is he is getting up. He is grabbing. Oh, my God. This is a poster board. Oh, my God. The song. Are you kidding me? So this are you fucking kidding me right now? This is a full on presentation. OK, no, wait. Now my video is really, really pixelated right now. So, OK, it's pixelated and I'm sure it's reversed. So I can point it out. OK.
01:05:23
Speaker
This is a trifold poster that I have just had in my possession, so that tells you everything you need to know about me. I am obsessed with this. Fergie's London Bridge, the song of our generation. Oh my God! And I stand by this with my whole chest. And speak on that. Tell me why.
01:05:44
Speaker
Thank you. Fergie's 2006 hit single London Bridge is quite possibly the best debut song that any pop artist has ever released. And Fergie, despite being sort of a new age meme where we look back on her with like a lot of like, you know, levity, Fergie's
01:06:08
Speaker
album The Duchess has I think it's tied with like Katy Perry maybe with like the most you know hit singles from a single album we're talking glamorous, fergalicious, clumsy, big girls don't cry and then of course London Bridge like Fergie is
01:06:28
Speaker
that girl and I will not accept slander because what she did after departing the Black Eyed Peas truly set a path for pop music that many artists have followed and she does not get enough credit and I love her.
01:06:45
Speaker
Wow. This is I okay. You just set a new precedent for the guests on this podcast because visual mediums for both visual mediums for podcasts. And I wish I love because I will be putting this on social media. This is incredible. So wait. So did you what did you make this for originally?
01:07:08
Speaker
I had a birthday party, I think it was like two years ago, where I was like, remember tri-poster fairs and how like, it was fun to create them, but you usually had to do it on like some science topic that maybe didn't show up. Or like a country that you were assigned. And so I went with my friends and I was like, guys, for my birthday, meet at a bar with a tri-poster board and it can be on whatever you want it to be. And so I had like a big group of people who all created a tri-poster on whatever they wanted, and this was mine.
01:07:37
Speaker
which like didn't do very well in the rankings because there's just too much information on here actually like those people just like kind of walked past it and i was like oh yikes oh my god i mean there is but i love that you have the lyrics on there lyrical prowess you have like what does it say iconic
01:07:55
Speaker
What's the other word? Iconic history. Iconic history. This is ranking, you know, even like Milth Money, A Little Party, Never Killed Nobody. People forget Fergie's on Kanye West's All of the Lights. All of the Lights, yep. This talks very briefly about the national anthem down here, which is 2018. Fergie sang a lesser-known song titled National Anthem at the NBA All-Star Game.
01:08:21
Speaker
Never has an artist received so much widespread media coverage for her iconic rendition. Iconic. Iconic. Cruising children's books. Shout out to Heartthrob Anderson.
01:08:32
Speaker
Like, oh my God, this is, and I love this because people would say, but London Bridge, it was a huge hit we talk about all the time, but to your point, we often kind of diminish it and diminish Fergie in general for being kind of like this, oh, she's kooky, weird, like it wasn't that serious, whatever. No, but like, this is a banger, still goes off. You put the song on at a club or at a party,
01:09:00
Speaker
And people are going to lose their goddamn minds. I truly think if I hear, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, in a five mile radius, like my ears pick up, my nipples get hard. I'm like, where's London Bridge? Where the fuck is it? And where's Fergie? Fergie's walking in the goddamn door. It is absolutely one of those songs. Yeah. And if you hear it in a bar, you're like, you're excited. Yeah. You're, ugh.
01:09:24
Speaker
acts of their choice. I'll read this paragraph because this is sort of the theme. In the year 2006, the universe was blessed with a sonic awakening unmatched only by the Big Bang. Stacy Fergie Ferguson, best known for volunteering her time with the Black Eyed Peas, emerged as a solo pop phenom with the best debut album in music history, The Duchess.
01:09:47
Speaker
The lead single London Bridge is widely praised as a straight up banger that gets the juices flowing for four minutes, one second. The world bopped to London Bridge from Vegas nightclubs to suburban Jamba juices and Fergie became a legend. I am obsessed with you. This is amazing. I am screaming right now that. Wow.
01:10:10
Speaker
And this is not to just keep pointing out things on the board. No, please. But in an interview, Fergie described the song as kind of like a punch in the face to let people know I'm coming out. I've been getting way too into myself nowadays, and I just want to have fun with as many men as possible. Relatable. Relatable, girl. Oh, my God.
01:10:33
Speaker
I mean, come on. Case closed. Case closed. This is the song of our generation. And to your point, I was even listening to Nonsense by Sabrina Carpenter where it is intentionally lyrically subdued because she's like, it's lyrically genius because of how sort of dumbed down it is where she's like, got me talking nonsense, even like Espresso where it's jokingly like,
01:11:02
Speaker
too bad your ex don't do it for you, walked in the room and brewed it for you. Like it's lyrically silly, but that's like, but she's owning it because she's like, I'm just here to have fun. And so when like, when we're talking about like,
01:11:17
Speaker
London, London, London is going down. It feels very similar and yet we allow Sabrina Carpenter to be silly and fun and bop-y. And then we're like, oh, Fergie's so dumb. But no, this is it. This is it. Oh, I need her to see this. I need Stacey Ferguson to see this masterpiece that you have created. Let me make a public plea on your podcast right now. Please.
01:11:47
Speaker
Stacy Fergie Ferguson. I, unironically, wholeheartedly love and appreciate you. And the gift you gave us with your debut album, The Duchess, specifically your lead single London Bridge, has fundamentally changed my life as well as the life of probably every human on the planet. And here's a poster board I had made for you. And
01:12:12
Speaker
Keep going and give us the triple duchess when you have a chance. Give us the triple duchess, Stacy. Let's go. Come on. Time's up. We're waiting. We're waiting for it. Well, you've inspired me because of this incredible presentation that you gave.
01:12:31
Speaker
on Fergie and London Bridge, I'm going to go ahead and give a little bit more of a deep cut from the deluxe version of the same album. There is a kind of a forgotten song that people kind of forget about, Labels or Love, that she did for the Sex and the City movie soundtrack that samples the Sex and the City theme song.
01:12:52
Speaker
And it was released as a single, did not get a music video. And the song didn't perform as well as the other songs on the album. In fact, I don't even know if it charted, which is a shame because it is a bop and a half. And I love the brilliant sample of the Sex and the City theme song.
01:13:11
Speaker
People just don't talk about it. They don't talk about it. People don't know it. I remember I had put that song on a playlist for a friend because we were we were ready for double duchess. We were like we were like the only two people in the world. But we were like here we were just like we're ready. We had a viewing party for the visual album that when it came. It was a visual album. I forget. It was a visual album. And we were like we are we are sat and we are watching this. We were like this is our
01:13:39
Speaker
That was our Barbenheimer, essentially. And we were just like loving it, loving it. And so I had to put this playlist together. And when that song came on, my friend was like, I completely, and he is probably like you, a giant Fergie fan. He was like, I completely forgot this song existed. And I was like, you're welcome.
01:13:59
Speaker
You're welcome. Labels or love. This is the joy of being a Fergie fan is there's a well to really keep mining through. There's always a song you haven't heard of. There's always a song you haven't
Fergie's Music & Joyful Moments
01:14:14
Speaker
heard of.
01:14:14
Speaker
I also, in that same discovery, there is an unreleased song. She did a song that was supposed to be for, I think, the Zoolander 2 soundtrack that sampled, or it was kind of like a cover remake of that. Relax, don't do it. When you want to go to it. Yeah, it was supposed to be, it was like this dance song, and it was supposed to be a collaboration with Akon, but for whatever reason, they never released it.
01:14:39
Speaker
But then it leaked online, thank God for leaks sometimes. Thank God for leaks sometimes when it's ethical. Sometimes when it's ethical and the gay gods know we are missing out on this bop. And so that was another song that I presented to him. I was like, you wouldn't know this because again, unreleased, but amazing. And I forget the name of that one. I don't know if it was called Relax or if it was something else, but
01:15:05
Speaker
Oh, as soon as this podcast is over, I'm doing Fergie deep dives. Deep dive, baby. I'm walking down the aisle or my coffin is descending into the earth to London Bridge. That is one of the two choices. You got it. Why not both? Porque de nos dos. I feel like walking down the aisle to London Bridge.
01:15:27
Speaker
I'm already picturing it. That would be absolutely amazing. And I need to be putting it on this. Would you do like an acoustic cover or would you just do the full-on one? No, I need the full-on one. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. And then that walk, because that's a catwalk. Yeah. I want to see you stomping down that aisle.
01:15:46
Speaker
And then your man is just like, ready, just ready to fucking go. Oh my God. Yeah, he's just like, I married the right person. I married the right person. The last thing I'll say on London Bridge is I won second place in a karaoke contest when I performed London Bridge. And I didn't know it was a karaoke contest. What? Because I've performed this song 100 times. And so I got a little choreo. I do a thing. I was at a dive bar in Golden, Colorado. I sang. I stopped. I was just going on. And then later in the night, they were like,
01:16:14
Speaker
And in second place, London Bridge. And I was like, oh, wow. I'm like a competitor. You're a competitor. You were basically on American Idol. That's what it felt like at a dive bar in Golden, Colorado. I was like, I'm going to Hollywood. Yeah, that tracks. Because there's a video of you and Devin dancing together. And I was like, these two are a good time. When I saw that video, I was like, my spirit elevated a little bit. And I was just like,
01:16:43
Speaker
We need to get you me and Devin need to like find a time to all be in the same physical space and then probably destroy the city is my guess.
Celebration of Sobriety & Friendship
01:16:53
Speaker
I think the city would get destroyed potentially the state. But I think that I think that just means it needs to happen, you know.
01:17:01
Speaker
Like Devin, I saw your 10 year sober post, which was absolutely beautiful. Thank you. If you have not read it, don't just stay for the memes. Read that beautiful, beautiful post by you. Wow. And Devin doesn't drink or do drugs. And so when I drink, but if I'm with him, I don't drink. And we still have more fun than anybody combined. So the three of us can like.
01:17:24
Speaker
Oh my gosh. You don't need it, y'all. You don't need it. You don't need it. We are going to skit. We don't need it. And we're going to twirl our little hearts out on our little buns out. Some of us bigger buns. The real drug, some big buns. The big buns. Check the gram. The real drug's Fergie. And it always has been. It always has been. And on that note, what an incredible episode. You did not. You came in. You said, I will be the most fun podcast guest. And you did not disappoint.
01:17:53
Speaker
absolute treat like this has been the best minute 28 seconds of my damn life. I love it. 20 minute 20 on our 27 minutes. Oh my god. And you know, oh my god, an hour and 27. I did not even do an intro. And that's okay. Sometimes, sometimes they'll get it. Sometimes they they'll get it. They everyone this is Joe Santini. And he is a super force power to be just
01:18:20
Speaker
praised and loved and adored. Like, right back at you. Wow. Well, until next time, everyone, thank you so much for listening and peace out. Bye.