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How Many Words Should My Toddler Know? Speech, Reading + Milestones With Katie & Carly of @WeeTalkers
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Today on the Play On Words Podcast from Big City Readers we are talking about supporting your toddler's language development and how it connects to learning to read with speech-language pathologists Katie and Carly of Wee Talkers.
We dive deep into the world of toddler speech development, reading foundations, and milestones—and what it really means when kids hit (or don’t hit) those milestones on time.
Katie and Carly share personal stories of their own children—some early readers, some needing extra help—and we have an honest conversation about why learning to read early isn’t necessarily a sign of future success. If your toddler isn’t rattling off the ABCs yet, that’s OK!
What we cover:
- How many words should my toddler know? We break down the speech milestones and when to worry (or not).
- Phonics vs. Phonological Awareness: What do these terms actually mean, and why are they key to building reading skills?
- Understanding vs. knowing words: Does your child really understand what they’re saying?
- Should you teach your child to read at home? Or let them learn in school?
- Reading intervention: The truth behind why some kids need it, and how you can support your child if they do.
- The Covid baby effect: How pandemic-born toddlers are showing delayed milestones—and how to catch up.
- How to help your child right now: Actionable steps to boost speech and reading at home, no matter where they are on the learning spectrum.
- Language and anxious toddlers (and parents): How to navigate anxiety in kids struggling with communication.
Whether your child is a late talker or already showing early signs of reading, this episode is packed with tips, insights, and a little bit of humor to help you navigate it all.
Links:
- Wee Talkers Instagram: @weetalkers
- Big City Readers Instagram: @bigcityreaders
- Phonological awareness checklist
- Language milestone checklist
Recommended
Transcript
Struggle vs. Natural Learning
00:00:02
Speaker
I think that it is better to, quote, struggle with something and learn how to do it rather than it just come naturally to you. Because, like, so many kids aren't taught and then they struggle later and then it's trickier. In kindergarten and first grade, like, when I was in the schools and would go get kids for speech, it was like, you wanted to go to speech. Those kids were stoked to go to speech. And all their friends were like, take me, take me.
00:00:29
Speaker
We tell families this all the time, you can do all the right things. And sometimes kids just need a little extra support. Yay. Oh my gosh.
Meet Carly and Katie: Speech Pathologists
00:00:38
Speaker
Okay, Carly, Katie, joining us from two different countries. I'm so happy to dive into the wonderful world of how language and literacy connect. How are you guys?
00:00:50
Speaker
Good. Thanks for having us. We're so excited to chat with you. You guys just said before we were talking that the only thing about having two people on your team is navigating who talks first. And I'm seeing it now. Yeah, we botched it right there. I promise we'll do better.
00:01:07
Speaker
it needs to be like the one oh actually jumping right into it tip probably wait time yes um okay so can you tell us a little bit about how okay so you guys are both speech language pathologists how maybe each of you got into your field or why I feel like the why is like what is so interesting.
WeTalkers: Parent Coaching for Speech
00:01:32
Speaker
I love to hear from people that are on this, why you wanted to do this and maybe like where you're hoping to take we talkers. Yeah.
00:01:42
Speaker
So I grew up with parents that were teachers for a very long time. I think I was in fourth grade when I realized that not every parent has a summer off. So that was like the best part. um But I really wanted to be a teacher growing up because I saw how happy they were in their work. And my mom was like, actually, you want to be the speech therapist. And I was like 16 at the time and was like, you know, parents don't know anything when you're 16. So I like begrudgingly went.
00:02:09
Speaker
and observed the school speech therapist loved it, didn't tell my mom that. But then when it was time to start college, like declared my major as speech and hearing science, love loved the the marriage of like creativity and science. um And that's kind of how I landed here. And I always say that I'm really lucky that I actually love it because I kind of am loyal and stick to things. And so it kind of happened to work out that I really do I love this gig, so.
Foundations of Reading and Language
00:02:40
Speaker
Well, and you are loyal. You just said that you are the an Enneagram six.
00:02:44
Speaker
but yeah i yeah like that reeverver that is That's what you want. That's funny that you say that because I actually forgot until just now, like I actually did want to be a speech pathologist, but I really, yeah, but I like didn't like science enough. Yeah, there's a little bit of science, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did it and I went down a different route.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah. And Carly. Mine was kind of similar in that I was um interested in like the medical field, teaching a little bit, wasn't quite sure, and also job shadowed an SLP and loved it. And yeah, I just am so fascinated that babies go from you know cooing, crying, all the way up to speaking full sentences you know by three or four years in. So that's just incredible.
00:03:32
Speaker
to watch and I was so fascinated by my language development classes and yeah, here we are. And for WeTalkers, I think our goal is just, you know, when we're working with families one-on-one for therapy, there's so much of it that we're teaching parents. A big goal and a big focus is parent coaching because speech therapy sessions last maybe an hour a week if you're lucky. Some kids can't even get in, you know, it's not very frequent. Whereas if we teach the parents strategies to use at home,
00:04:02
Speaker
They can use it all throughout their day. And that's where we see the best outcomes happen. And so with WeTalkers, we were like, we just can reach so many more families. And we want to get this information out so it's more common knowledge. And we want to have resources to support families so they're not waiting on a wait list, wondering what should we be doing. And so that's kind of how WeTalkers was born.
00:04:24
Speaker
I love it. That's kind of something that we have in common. and I realized that too, right with tutoring. So big city readers started as a tutoring company before it kind of evolved
Speech Pathology vs. General Teaching
00:04:34
Speaker
into early childhood classes for parents. And I remember people being like, my baby needs a class. And I was like, well, no, your baby doesn't need a class. You don't even need a class. But if you want to learn about like the steps and this journey of like what's happening and how a language transforms into learning to read,
00:04:54
Speaker
ah That's what these classes are for. And um I realized that you know like people wanted tutoring like three times a week. And I was like, well, I can tell you what to do. And you can do it in 10 minutes. You don't need to pay someone every day or like that many times. And of course, like some people you know don't want to do it. But that's my big goal, which probably is similar to is like to equip parents to realize like you can do this. And you probably already are doing these things that your child needs.
00:05:21
Speaker
For sure. And I think something that kind of happens for both of us is that like with reading and language, because it's so intertwined, there's so much happening under the surface that parents, if they don't know to look for it, they're not seeing it until they're talking or learning to read. But I think when parents understand and are educated about the value of those like beginning skills, the things that are less obvious, then it has such a great impact as they grow and develop.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think that we probably, when I say we, um like learning to read and a speech-language pathologist overlap more than possibly like learning to read with a general classroom teacher. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. And and I think I didn't realize that when I went to school to be a teacher, I didn't really think that much about learning to read because you go even in in undergrad, you get like, you know, a class in reading, and then you're, you're able to teach or you're certified to teach like preschool through third grade, like a preschooler learning how to hold a pencil is so different than a third grader reading Charlotte's web and understanding how to make inferences like, yes, in one class in college, you're supposed to learn all those skills or an elementary degree, which will be kindergarten through ninth grade was mine and like
00:06:45
Speaker
like, an eighth grader reading strategies are so different than kindergarten. It's just, I didn't realize it when I was in school. And so then, you know, the more and more like speech pathologists I talk to, I'm like, ah this is like you understand reading a lot more than I was like trained in in school. um Of course, then I went to to actually get certified in in reading and specializing in reading. And that's when I learned a lot more about it. But it is so, so, so, so closely related to language. um yeah and And it starts from babbling, which is just crazy.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it is really wild to think about all the like, and I'm so thankful right that everybody kind of specializes in different things and we can teach each other because there's no way we were meant to know everything about all the subjects. So it's nice to be able to chat with people who know what you're wondering about.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah. and And you guys both have a kindergartner right now. So current kindergartner are about to be kindergartner current current current kinders. Oh, my gosh. So you are right in that learning to read stage. So fun to watch. It's so fun to watch. And I think it's really cool, too, because
Building a Love for Reading
00:07:56
Speaker
ah my older kids play piano and they have a saint of a music teacher and they always bring a book while the other ones like playing. And she asked me the other day because they really love to read like, oh, were they really early readers?
00:08:09
Speaker
and i was like oh no they weren't actually they were like on time ish readers but what we what i feel like did make the difference is that we fostered at an early age this love for books and this love for learning and we worked on things like rhyming or you know playing around with language that really helped their reading skills. But it's not like they weren't reading when they were two you know or something impressive. like That's really cool when kids you know have that interest and their and they're into it. But for most children, um you know learning to read early, and i I'm guessing you would agree with this, isn't the goal, right? It's to build that strong foundation.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yes. And I explain this to parents a lot because when people are like, why does my toddler need this? And that's what in our classes, and I probably, uh, the things that you teach are very similar. Like that the foundation is phonological awareness and so much of that. So, so for people listening that might be new to this phonics is probably a word that you've heard. and phonics is connecting the sound to the letter, but we often jump right to phonics and we haven't really worked on the phonological awareness part, which is playing with the sounds. ah The big example I always give is if like you know the letters, you know that the word shoe is four letters, a S-H-O-E, but if you know the sounds,
00:09:35
Speaker
ooh, it's two sounds or two phonemes. And I think that the big thing in reading is that like a lot of this phonological awareness is missed and we just go to phonics where I think that's why that's what I want to like dive in with you guys because like that language piece that hearing and that producing language is such a big foundation that needs to be You know, really solid before we just teach kids how to read. So that probably sounds like you built that foundation, which is why they're reading now. But they weren't early readers, that but they had the strong foundation. So it happened fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty neat to watch. Yeah. Carly, what about you? How's your kindergarten reading looking?
00:10:20
Speaker
You know, it's funny because I have an eight-year-old as well and their reading journeys were totally different and I didn't expect that. My older one had a little bit harder time picking it up and I had done all these early things like this is the area that my education is in so it was like a little bit worrisome but I just realized she needed more of that really explicit instruction than my younger one ended up needing. And I think it was just a really good lesson for me too. And we tell families this all the time, you can do all the right things and sometimes kids just need a little extra support. But what my older one's teachers would always tell me is like, wow, her background knowledge and her vocabulary and just the language skills that she had really assisted her in her reading because
00:11:09
Speaker
It just, it made sense once she was able to decode it. And I think that that is really important. Like in our younger years is like, we want to really build up so they have a strong vocabulary. Cause if they're able to sound out those words, but they don't know what it is, it's like, they're not going to have that comprehension piece, right? So there's so many facets to it. But yeah, my little one I just remember before.
00:11:31
Speaker
she'd go to preschool we'd have to kind of wait to go in the door and we were constantly playing those phonological awareness games like I'm thinking of a sound and let's name as many words that we can that start with the sound or playing rhyming games and just like you said Beth I'm not sure it was before we were recording but how ten minutes a day of just doing these little things if you know what to do can be super beneficial so I think teaching that explicit stuff to her early really helped her just take off in kindergarten. And yeah, she's doing well with it. so Now, okay, here's a question that I didn't tell you I was going to ask. Actually, I didn't tell you any of the questions I was going to ask. um Did you guys teach your kids to read at home or let them learn to read in school?
00:12:16
Speaker
So I let my kids learn to read in school. So we did tons of reading, tons of like, actually my oldest wanted to write before he was super interested in like learning to read. And I feel like normally it's kind of the other way around, yeah but like he wanted to like make lists or like, you know, play something that required some form of written language. So he was really into writing, which kind of, you know, obviously is correlated with reading. And so he, we waited till kindergarten for him and we let the teachers kind of be the first to teach that. um My second saw him reading. And so she, we did a little bit more at home because she wanted to like kind of keep up yeah um and was just, you know, wouldn't take like
00:13:04
Speaker
a blanket answer as truth, like she wanted to know what the word said on the page, like not just a summary. um So, and then my third, he's in kinder right now. um And truth be told, he was in reading intervention. And in the beginning of the year, I was like, Oh, no, like everything that I've preached like the don't force it don't like you don't have to work on this early like it's enough to play it's enough to like play with language I was like oh no do I have to like recant everything I said but in in my heart of hearts I knew like
00:13:40
Speaker
It's just because it hasn't clicked for him yet. And like he needed, like Carly was saying with one of hers, like just a little bit more explicit instruction. He had a quarter of small group instruction. It was all he needed. And now he's doing fantastic, but he just needed like that little, and you know, in a public school system, there's a bunch of kids in his class. It's yeah not very, you know, tailored to what they need. And so I was actually super thankful that he got that small group intervention and that like kind of individualized attention to meet him where he was at. um But their language skills, like Carly was saying, like their their background knowledge and their language skills and their ability to manipulate language is just like phenomenal to watch. And so um I would just tell parents like not to be afraid of whatever their journey looks like. you know it's It's going to look different for every kid.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yes. Um, when's his birthday? April. So she's like within the window, but like younger side. Yeah. Cause there's this book. Um, and I, I, this is like something that has stuck with me for so long. And I remember when I was a reading specialist at an elementary school, I would look at the birthdays of the kids in kindergarten. Yeah. That I was, or were getting referred to me.
00:14:54
Speaker
And they were all birthdays after February. And this book yardstick says that the difference between five and five and a half and five and a half to six is basically two separate years. wow And um like the first half of being five is so different. So I always would tell people that like, you know, they might just need a little bit more time or a little bit more instruction. They're basically a year younger than some of their peers.
00:15:21
Speaker
yeah So I wonder if that was part of it. But also I like to remind people that it's better and I tell this to the big kids that I work with. I think that it is better to quote struggle with something and learn how to do it rather than it just come naturally to you. Because like so many kids aren't hi And then they struggle later and then it's trickier. So if they like need more explicit instruction earlier, they usually do much better because they have like that problem solving ability and they like know how to tackle it later when they're in second, third, fourth grade.
00:15:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I think for him, if I would have pushed it younger, he would have struggled more because he wouldn't have been ready. And then he would have had a negative association
Impact of COVID on Language Development
00:16:04
Speaker
with it. And then that doesn't set him up for any kind of success. So like, I think it actually worked out pretty well. And then also side note, he was like preschool COVID times. oh So like, I think there were 17 kids in his class that were in reading intervention because like,
00:16:20
Speaker
A lot of kids didn't have like you know much, if any, um early early education exposure. so yeah she My daughter's kindergarten teacher said that as well, that it's been kind of a ah tricky year like because these are like the babies from COVID. Gosh, the COVID babies are already in kindergarten.
00:16:42
Speaker
Well, they were like my... They were like the COVID toddlers. She was in 18 months. Yeah, my daughter was 18 months when it started. Okay, so that's a question. Are you seeing more... Okay, I remember in COVID times, like the beginning, that everyone was worried about language and the masks and being able to be around people and how these babies were developing. Are you seeing any sort of backlash of that or did you?
00:17:11
Speaker
What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that it affected those babies? Well, during that time, you know we were saying a lot, and i mean we least stand by this, that babies and toddlers are learning communication skills from their parents and primary caregivers. So they should have been exposed you know without masks with their primary caregivers. However, if they were in daycare and the daycare providers were all wearing masks, we could see how there could be impact from that.
00:17:40
Speaker
So everyone was different in terms of like what the requirements were, what their situation was with their child. But anecdotally, we definitely, we haven't talked about this as much recently, but we were hearing more and more people. They also couldn't get access to services, like speaking therapy services. So it's one of those things where It's unfortunate that we all had to go through that for so many reasons, and kids are also really resilient. So if you're noticing anything that you're concerned about, it's definitely not too late right to to get support and um and get help with that.
00:18:19
Speaker
I think it's like also just behaviorally like just expectations and societal norms that they sort of missed out on like going to eat at a restaurant and like sitting and like waiting for your food like they didn't have as many opportunities to practice that at a young age and so I think anecdotally teachers have said like oh this is a rough year Um, because they didn't like go to preschool and learn how to sit at circle time or like, you know, they just didn't, they didn't have as many opportunities. So I do think that they, they missed out on some practice on like just how to do life a little bit, but language wise, if they were getting good language models at home, it shouldn't have made too much of an impact, but we know that not everybody had that as their circumstance. so and Obviously, like parents were really stressed out as well. so you know A lot of families might not have had the capacity to you know maybe read as they normally would have played because people were stressed. It's tricky.
00:19:19
Speaker
yeah you know A blur. A blur, yeah, exactly. Okay, so I want to talk about two things. One is, um I think it would be really helpful to give like quick milestones of like ages, of like language milestones, you know, like what to expect by six months, ah one year, 18 months. um And then two, I people are always asking,
00:19:46
Speaker
like my child was in speech therapy as a toddler or is in speech therapy, they have a language delay, they have a processing delay, like, is that going to affect their reading? And I really want to dive into that because I know that you guys love looking at the language literacy connection so much.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So for milestones, um, it's hard to go over like every single little thing. So we just want to let, you know, if you're a big one yeah if you're listening and you're, if we don't touch on the age of your child or we don't go as in depth as we'd like to just go to our Instagram bio, or we can put it in the show notes, maybe Beth. Yeah. And and download our milestones checklist because we break it down in a lot more detail. And I'll just go over, I guess, number of words ah at each stage, but we just want to have the caveat that that's just one component we look at. I'm not going to talk about all the receptive language milestones, their understanding. So I'll just give like a brief overview, if that's okay. Yeah, I love that. And then I think it would be i like maybe after that, we can touch on receptive language because I think I think that's a little confusing for some parents too. Yes. It is trickier to notice. And I think that's why a lot of families come to us to ask, well, how many words? Because that's visible. Something you can count. Something you can count. Yeah. I think that that is why like people obsess over, sorry to sidetrack for a second, but obsess over sight words because it feels like something that's so, yeah, you can track it. They know 10 sight words. They're like, oh, I'm doing a good job. But it's like a little harder to be like,
00:21:18
Speaker
I don't know how many sounds can they decode. So I think people, yeah, do like the thing that they can count. Yeah, measure. Yeah. Yeah. Language milestones are very similar to that in that. Yeah, some of it is more.
00:21:31
Speaker
It's hard to quantify easily. Um, so, so yeah, we'll just start with age one is where we usually see first words. We usually see one or two words around then, and it doesn't have to be a full word to count. So if they say bah for ball or ma for mom, that totally counts. And if they're doing it clearly and consistently, yeah, we look for like consistent, independent, and within context, like it's not just like a random sound where you hear them over looking out the window and they're like ma.
00:22:01
Speaker
It's like, it has to be like within the context. Yeah. Yeah. Even, sorry, I'm already interrupting, but I think that that is so, I like, I want people to hear that, that you said at one, we're looking for one to two words. I saw a mom the other day in one of my classes who was like, yeah, and you know, she's, she's only saying a couple of words. She's 11 months. And I was like, that's great. That's great. Yeah. yeah and Yeah. Yes. And so, and this mom might be really reassured if she sees this milestone checklist, like there's so many other little skills skills on there that can add to link it but we can track. Yeah. And then, um, around 18 months. So there's ranges for everything, right? Just like we were talking about with the reading, it's not like an exact age. They need to be able to like decode these phonemes or whatever. It's there's a range. And so for 18 months, we look for like at least 10 words and the average is 50.
00:22:55
Speaker
And then by 24 months, we look for at least 50, average is like 200 to 300. And do people count the words? No, I think that we see a lot of families whose children aren't picking them up as quickly. And so they're tracking. So we're seeing families who are 24 months and maybe the child saying 10 words. so It's easier to track at that point, but there's a big language burst from 18 to 24 months and it's hard to keep up because it's going to feel like a new word every single day. But if you had no clue, like if you were if your kid was 24 months and you're like, I have zero clue if I have 200 words, what we would recommend is like think of a category like
00:23:38
Speaker
animals or like household items or people and like think of how many words they can say in that category and then like multiply that by a few categories and you at least have like a ballpark idea of what they have. That's great. That is a great tip. I was talking to someone recently who was like, am I supposed to count if they can do 200 words? I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Only if you're curious or concerned is the kind of art. I think people should track to like 18 months, like just, and it doesn't have to be anything formal, like use your notes app or jot it down on a piece of paper on the fridge or something. And just to kind of get a sense. And then like another thing too, like Katie was saying with the categories, it's really helpful for speaking in sentences. You need words from a variety of categories. So sometimes we see little ones and it's like they have 300 words and they're literally all nouns. And so they're not able to communicate effectively in terms of like pragmatic language, the way we use language to interact with others.
00:24:33
Speaker
might be missing. And so that's another thing too of like, we really want to steer away from just focusing on the words because we have to look at like the function of the communication and the function of the words they're using. So if they're just like naming things like bomb, cow, mom, and not being like I want the ball. Yeah. Yeah. Or like describing or like requesting or saying protesting. No, no ball. Like we want them to be able to to communicate an idea, not just like performatively label things. Oh, I see. Okay. And that is like, sorry, what age was that?
00:25:10
Speaker
Well, around 24 months, I guess, is usually when we see them combining two words. That's and you know leading up to that, just just making a note. like Are they saying some verbs? Do they have some pronouns in here and like that kind of thing? and um Yeah. That's up to age two. and Then by three, i mean there's combining three words at least if you know if not more, and we see like an average of like a thousand words. and yeah People aren't usually counting by then if it's typical language, but again, we work with families who are needing extra support, so it might be lower. and The thing is, all we can do in terms of like helping support them is meet them where they're at. like There's no jumping ahead when it comes to communication, so that's why these milestones are important even if your child's delayed and you're like, these ages don't match mine. It's like,
00:25:56
Speaker
while we're looking at the skills around where they are, what can we kind of work on next? And then we go to that next step. Same with reading, like maybe you'd expect a two-year-old to be, you know, reading fluently. And it's like, well, if they're not, we can't just say, okay, or not, not a two-year-old, sorry. I was like, people are going to be triggered by that sentence. Sorry, I did not mean to. We're expecting their five-year-old to read a simple sentence, but it doesn't really matter if they're not able to you know say the letter sounds first.
00:26:27
Speaker
For example, so and it's important to kind of understand where are they? Where can we support them? And then if they need that support, you know, that's why we're here at Ms. Beth and yeah. Yes. I think that's a good reminder, like stage, not
Early Reading and Vocabulary Enhancement
00:26:40
Speaker
age, like kind of like look at both because maybe they're maybe they're acting like an 18 month old, but they're three. So we're not going to be like, okay, pushing the three year old skills, but being like, okay, what can we make sure that they're confident in and then build from there? Yeah. And building off those strengths and yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's good. So, okay. I am thinking about, I'm like, how do I ask this question? Okay. People often are like obsessing over that phrase, the million word gap, you know about this phrase? Yeah. Um, like essentially like the people are like, there's a million word gap for kids that are or aren't read to at home. And I think like people obsess over it. And I'm like, if you're a parent that's obsessing over it, you're not the parent that needs to worry about it. If you're aware of that, I think you're good. Yeah.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, so I think like it's just like a reminder like how important it is to read to your kids like from the very beginning Which I think people feel kind of funny like reading to a newborn. Do you guys do that? What what are your thoughts on this?
00:27:43
Speaker
who Yeah, I mean we definitely we definitely read to babies since the day they're born. I think that if you're just navigating like postpartum and like trying you have a colicky baby or something like it's gonna look different than if you have like a blissful experience.
00:27:59
Speaker
ah So you have to like take your experience with a grain of salt but I think that the more that babies can hear your voice and your cadence and a variety of words like when you read a book you're likely using vocabulary words that you didn't experience that day. So if you're reading about a zoo and you didn't go to the zoo then your baby is hearing you know all different animals that you didn't like physically see that day. But if you didn't read the books, then they wouldn't necessarily have as much of a robust vocabulary model because you know they didn't physically experience those things. So I think that you know reading to your baby is like, one, a very great connection activity because it's like a low lift. You don't have to try too hard to read.
00:28:50
Speaker
And it kind of lets you zone out a little bit. I don't know. I think sometimes when you feel stressed and like overwhelmed and like, I just don't know if I'm doing enough. Like when you can just, as a baby reading the words on the page, I know we say you don't have to read all the words on the page as they get older. But if you need to read all the words on the page to a baby.
00:29:07
Speaker
It's like such a great connection activity, but it's not requiring a ton from you Because you don't have to like think on your feet or like make decisions It's like just read the words and it's really calming to your baby and really coming to your nervous system So definitely like as infants it's important and then as they grow into Toddlers reading starts to look a lot different because you're not reading all the words on the page and you're following their lead and You're showing interest what they show interest in and you're letting them move about but with like, you know an infant They're sitting on your lap or you're doing tummy time. Like it it looks really different, right? Yeah these two toddlers Yeah I like that. Okay, so
00:29:51
Speaker
The big question. Well, I want to talk more about receptive language too, but how is language and reading connected? And if my child has a delay, a language delay, is it going to affect their reading? It's like the million dollar question. Is that the phrase? Million dollar question. This is what parents ask all the time. What are your thoughts? You want me to go? Doesn't matter.
00:30:19
Speaker
For those listening, they are fighting right now about who's going to get to answer this first.
00:30:27
Speaker
Oh, hey, it's me interrupting myself to tell you if you're liking what you're listening to, then you're probably going to love my big city readers on demand courses. If you've ever wondered why is that word spelled with a G and not a J, well, it's not just random. There's a reason for that. And you'll learn that in my spelling rules for second graders course. If you've ever wondered what letters to teach in what order to your preschooler, yeah, I teach you that in my preschool course too.
00:30:53
Speaker
If you've ever wondered what your kindergartners should be able to write or draw or if your toddler scribbles matter and how to guide them to the next step. Yep. You guessed it. All of my on demand courses teach you exactly how to do this. I am sort of obsessed with talking about the learning to read and write journey because I feel like there's so much misinformation about it. So I've dedicated my life to making sure that there's more clear cut fun information.
00:31:19
Speaker
And you can help your child and yourself by getting one of these courses. They are jam-packed into 15-minute on-demand lessons. And you're going to feel confident. Your child's going to feel confident. And be warned, this is no exaggeration. At least 20 parents have told me that at parent-teacher conferences, their teacher has said, oh, are you a reading specialist with the kind of questions they ask? So you're going to learn a lot. Your child's going to learn a lot. You're both going to feel confident. I promise you.
00:31:49
Speaker
This is really all I think about ever. Oh, I sound kind of boring when I say it like that. But anyway, check out the big city readers on demand courses. Let me know if you need any help deciding what the right course for your child is. And also like, let me know how the lessons are going if you're already doing them. Okay, back to the episode.
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think that you know it's so hard when they're two years old. I'm not sure what age families are asking you this, Beth, but a lot can happen in a year or two or three. So I would hate for a family with a toddler with a child with a language delay.
00:32:27
Speaker
already be thinking and kind of stressing about reading. I think it's important to stay in the moment and it's i mean that can send you really into a spiral. I think that we don't really talk about that much on our Instagram or blog or anything because a speech and language delay can have a lifelong effect if they have a language delay or a disorder. It's going to impact the communication, reading,
00:32:55
Speaker
functioning in daily life, potentially, it just depends on the severity of it and the needs of the child. But at the same time, I think it's too soon to go down that road. What do we know about learning to read? We know that kids with stronger phonological awareness skills, a stronger vocabulary, ability to manipulate in language are going to have an easier time. You can't really work on those skills until the basics are covered. So focus on the basics in terms of helping your child learn new words, helping them start to speak in sentences, helping with building up their receptive language skills, you know, introduce reading at a young age, keep it fun and light and build up that enjoyment, but don't get too caught up in the future would be my answer.
00:33:42
Speaker
That's good. I feel like it's kind of like saying if you know you have an anxious toddler and you're like, oh my gosh, they're going to like start school and have like all these problems and like you can totally spiral on. And when they start college, like I'm going to be going to their dorm room all the time. Like, you know, you can go all the places.
00:33:58
Speaker
But I think really what it is is information. And it's knowing what to possibly be aware of in the future and be proactive in supporting them that way. So like, we're all going to have things, adults and kids, right, that are strengths and struggles. And that's normal. But I think that if we can say, okay, this is the problem right now, they're not communicating their wants, needs, thoughts and ideas, how can we help them right now?
00:34:24
Speaker
I know that language and reading are so closely related. And so when they enter those preschool kindergarten years, I'm gonna be aware of that. And I'm gonna know that that that might be harder for them. And I'm gonna be proactive about getting them that help when they're in that situation if they need it. So I feel like it's everything in parenting. It's like, you know, there's the fires and then there's like the things on the horizon that you just kind of like are aware of, but they're not like,
00:34:53
Speaker
the issue right now,
Speech Delays and Self-Esteem
00:34:54
Speaker
you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's a great reminder. So, okay. Now, a lot of people ask, we talked about like the kind of like big picture milestones to look for, but a lot of people asked about like At what point do I need to see a speech therapist for my child that, like I know we talked about, I think that we've we covered like the baby stage, but for older kids, like they're not saying certain sounds and it's starting to affect how they're writing those words. What would you say about that?
00:35:33
Speaker
There's a few areas that we would feel the need to support in. One would be what you're talking about, articulation, the way they pronounce the words. Actually, my fourth grade son just came home with a note from a friend the other day who has, um this friend has some some speech and language delays, and articulation is one of them. And my son's name is Henry, and he wrote his name H-E-N-W-Y, Henry, we because that's the way that he says it.
00:35:58
Speaker
And we do see that sometimes in school and sometimes where they write and sound out the way that they say it. For kids who are a little bit more aware, a lot of times they'll be like, no, I know I say it like a W, but it's an R and I'm going to write an R, but a lot of kids don't. so we do see it affect their writing for sure. Also just like language wise, if they're having a hard time producing like complex ideas, so like what they say is really basic, their grammar is like kind of basic, then when they go to write paragraphs in third and fourth grade, their paragraphs are going to be short, their paragraphs aren't going to include a lot of details and
00:36:37
Speaker
So like language, I mean it impacts everything in school, but like even just their understanding of the direction, you know, all the the direction on the paper. what to include. like If they don't have a strong receptive language, it's hard. It's really hard. Yeah. so okay and Sticking with like the school age thing, do you see like a connection between speech delay of of any sort and like the impact on self-esteem or um you know social isolation possibly or or how that's connected? Do you see that?
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think every kid is different. Some just don't let anything stop them. It's just that personality. But I definitely think that it can have an impact on social relationships and their confidence once they become more aware. So yeah, for sure.
00:37:31
Speaker
I was going to say, like in kindergarten and first grade, like when I was in the schools and we'd go get kids for speech, it was like, you wanted to go to speech. Those kids were stoked to go to speech. And all their friends were like, take me, take me. And then when they get to third, fourth, fifth, they don't want to go as much. like It's harder because they're like, I don't want to be different. um Whereas like when they're little, they're like, attention. Yes. you know And so we always tell families, if you have concerns in those early years of school, I think parents are very hesitant to get that help when they're little, but it's so much easier to get the help when they're little and it is cool. like It is legitimately cool to go with a speech teacher when you're little. Oh, I want it. I still want it. I'm like, ah you can you come pick me up?
00:38:18
Speaker
yeah ah Do you have any tips that you share with parents who like so maybe they have a child in elementary school who's like feeling like I don't like it. I don't want to do it like how they can help prep their child for going to their sessions or how they can help build their self-esteem back up around this. I know i think like even in in reading, people will say, like oh, I've tried saying, you know like well, you just need help with reading. you're You're good at math. And I kind of like try to say, oh, let's not. I know. like I think people think that that's the right thing to say, and it's like, oh, that's not really addressing the problem. I'll say something like, um actually, like i kind of if it's a child that's old enough to understand, I like really am clear and direct with them. And I'm like, this is not your fault. There is like like
00:39:08
Speaker
This learning to read thing is really tricky for a lot of people, including me, your parent. I don't understand all of the rules about this. This teacher only gets to work with a couple of kids and you get to be one of them right now. You probably won't get to be one of them for a long time. Um, but I can't wait to learn about like what you're learning because you're learning something that I didn't even learn. Like that's what I would say about reading. So I'm wondering if you have any like tips on how to like help build that self esteem back up.
00:39:36
Speaker
if they are struggling. That's such a great way to talk to them. I mean, I think a lot of it starts with parents too, admitting the things that are hard for us or the things that we need extra support in or the things that we're learning. I think modeling that not everybody isn't excellent at everything and everybody can benefit from support in some arena. Yours happens to be reading and this is what this is what going to these classes or getting this extra support is going to give you. I mean, I think when they're older and you can kind of reason with them a little bit on like, you know, the impact of this hard work and like how this is going to help them in the long run. But I think also to just being really
00:40:18
Speaker
aware of the social ramification. So like as a speech therapist in the schools, kind of just picking times that, oh, hey, can you come to the drinking fountain with me in the hallway? like We're going to just take a quick walk and we'll be right back. like And we'll just like do your speech on our long walk in the hallway. No one's like really around. We're not like taking you to like a special room. I feel like you know kind of just trying to be respectful of what they feel embarrassed about you know and making it casual and Yeah, can be helpful. That's so good. but Gosh, I hope that SLPs are listening to that. I think that's such a good reminder for like the school aged kids, um because it can be like kind of stressful and embarrassing. I yeah hate being bad at anything. And I am bad at a lot of things. I'm not saying that I'm good at everything, but I hate it. I, I get mad at myself. And even as an adult, and I talked about this before, so maybe you've heard me say this, but I, at all times I'm trying to learn something new so that I don't get too far from beginner's mind.
00:41:24
Speaker
So like taking tennis lessons, playing pickleball, joining an adult swim team, writing stand-up comedy, performing comedy, like all these things because I want to analyze what's happening in my brain and like how scary it is for me because that's what kids are doing like almost every day. So I think that also is like a good reminder for parents or teachers or therapists that are working with kids like while also like remembering it's not personal. And they're not just giving you a hard time. It's just it is hard to not be good at something that it seems like comes easy to everybody else. Yeah, that's really valuable. And I think like when kids are really little, I mean, it is a good time to go to speech therapy, they get to play with toys, like they don't know that they're working because yeah they're
00:42:11
Speaker
It's like, you know if this speech yeah, it's play time. And if the speech therapist is good, like you're, they're meeting them where they're at and they're like knowing when to push and when to step back. And like, so when they're really little, it's, you don't have to, I mean, for most kids, you it's not pulling teeth to get them to go, but as they get older, it is a little trickier.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah. um Okay. One question. I know it's different for every state and country, um but do you have any advice for a parent that says, how do I know if my elementary school kid needs to see a speech therapist? like How do I go about doing that? Do I go through the school? How do I advocate for that? How do I even No. And maybe, maybe you have the older ages on the milestone checklist that we're going to link, but oh, no, I'm focusing on the earlier one. Sorry. Maybe, yeah maybe I'm throwing a curve ball at you, but do you have any advice for those parents that are like, I don't even know, like if my kid, like it's my first kid. I don't know what, how do I know? And how do I advocate?
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah, so if your child's in school, I think that you'll be pretty aware, like the teacher will become aware as well if they're having difficulty with their communication skills.
00:43:25
Speaker
so In the United States, there's laws around all this, like it's the responsibility of the school if a parent requests an assessment to complete the assessment in a certain amount of time. So you would just talk to your child's classroom teacher and they'll really be your teammate in that. And then there's a team at the school, speech language pathologists, maybe they need a psych assessment or something as well to look at like cognitive abilities. um And then, yeah, you just go from there. So I think with the age we work with younger, it's not always as in parent because they're just little and people are like, oh, it's fine if they're too and not talking and not realizing like how fast those skills build up. and But by the time you're to school age, I think your teacher will be
00:44:10
Speaker
noticing, right, Katie? Yeah, for sure. And I think there is sometimes a mismatch on like, you know, they're struggling, but like it's not impacting the school would say like, well, it's not impacting their ability to like make friends at school or like they're getting good grades so they don't need the help that happens a lot with like articulation, if they can't say like their R's or S's or something, but their papers are fine, and their grades are great, then the school sometimes doesn't provide that service because it's not impacting their education. But if you as a parent are like, okay, but it is affecting their self esteem, or like they really want to work on this, then getting some like private or clinic based therapy outside of school um is definitely an option if that's in your means. So
00:44:53
Speaker
Great. Okay. And one last question, jumping back to baby. ah This is the hottest topic in language. I feel like so many people ask or that don't have the understanding. I know that we all know this, but if I teach my baby sign language, am I delaying them from talking?
Sign Language and Bilingualism Myths
00:45:13
Speaker
Alternatively, a lot of people ask if we are speaking in two languages at home, is that going to delay their language development?
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, those are common questions and for both of those, it's a myth. um Speaking two languages to your child does not delay their language development. In fact, it's a huge gift that you're giving your child. we Yeah, we highly recommend it. We can link something. We have a lot of information about that as well. We can link if you'd like below if and anybody wants to read more about bilingualism. And as far as sign language, same thing. it It only enhances their communication. They're really learning that communication connection in terms of like, if I do this, then this happens, which is like so great for communication. It's like that.
00:46:04
Speaker
foundational thing that really needs to click and then they'll get to if I see a sound, you know, things happened. And so we recommend it. And at the same time, it's not necessary. If you're, you don't need to feel like the pressure like I have to do baby sign language, like you know, obviously so many humans around the world learn to speak and communicate and everything just fine. And their parents never taught them sign language. It can help alleviate some of that frustration um when little ones, if they have like a little bit of power over their environment. And then for toddlers who are delayed, we also do recommend it um because that motor skill is easier than the fine motor. The more gross motor movement is easier than the five motor movement of speech. So it's an easier skill to learn.
00:46:48
Speaker
who I love it. So question on that because this is just something that I've noticed come up. You said, I know that you said baby sign language and that but sign language is different in every language. um So, which is like another, like, cause it's another language. It's not, right it's not universal. So, but there's like, I heard like a lot of things about, you know, people are like, well, don't call it baby sign language cause it's, uh, it's own language.
00:47:19
Speaker
However, if it's modified for the signs are modified for babies' hands to be able to do them. Well, it's not really American Sign Language. What do you say about that?
00:47:31
Speaker
It's a hot topic that way yeah hot topic. But I think for us, like a speech therapist, like the point of teaching kids that are hearing like they're hearing their parents are hearing those kids are likely going to be like spoken word communicators, then we're trying to teach them the power of language and we're going to meet them where they're at. So if that's a sign language, then that's what we're going to try. But I think that there is definitely like, you know, ASL ASL is its own language and should totally be respected as such, but that's, we're not teaching kids ASL. Like we're, we're using parts of, of their language to help babies and toddlers communicate. Kind of like babbling, like how you could be like, yeah, mom, mom, mom. And like not being like, it's, you don't need them to say mom. That's the modified. Yeah. I mean, like kind of like,
00:48:23
Speaker
accepting, you know, cracker is like, you know, your elbow, your hand cracker, but if they like tap up on their forearm or something, it's not like, Oh, well, that wasn't precise ASL. So I'm not going to honor the fact that you want a cracker, you know, it's, but I i think people have very strong opinions on it. So that's kind of our, our stance. Um, just like staying in our lane. Like we do not tend to, you know, teach ASL or we're just helping babies and toddlers use the means that they can to communicate what they want and need.
Parental Instincts and Positive Reinforcement
00:48:53
Speaker
Yeah, and if a family's interested in ASL, then we're totally not the people to teach that. We would absolutely recommend learning from a deaf educator or for sure a deaf interpreter that's involved in the American Sign Language community. and
00:49:07
Speaker
Yes. That is what I always say to them. Like I am not the ASL instructor. I'm going to teach you how this connects. And and I have found that even signing with older kids and doing modified signs, that that helps in some ways understanding like concept of word as well. Right. is it so It's like if you like are singing twinkle, twinkle little star and you're signing star,
00:49:32
Speaker
And then you stop saying star, but you sign star in the song. It's like, oh, they understood that one word was gone. And that that was yeah the cue. We use it for two word combinations all the time. Like, like ah more cracker. Well, now the kid can see there's two parts, they can visually see it, they can auditorily hear that it's two parts. And it is like gold for teaching two word combinations. I totally agree. Well, that also is like so gold because like that's, that's just like one of the preschool skills that I often will teach parents. It's like, can you count on your fingers how many words you're saying? So if you go more cracker than like their understanding, oh, those were two signs, that's two words I said, they need to understand that there's two words that you're saying before they can then read those two words. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, so much overlap in reading and language. It's pretty wild. I love it. Oh my gosh. You guys are amazing. Is there anything else that you think that the world needs to know from you? This is your big world platform. Yes, everyone in the world listens to this podcast. Yes.
00:50:39
Speaker
ah No pressure. I would just say you know in this time, raising kids with so much information, like honestly, you're doing an absolutely amazing job and you're killing it. i think I think that there's so much noise out there, so just tune in with what resonates with you and and leave the rest. What would you say, Katie?
00:51:04
Speaker
i mean I totally agree. I think that parents need to hear more and more that they're and parents and educators and you know anyone who's dealing with kids just need to hear that like they're doing a good job and we're all going to be okay.
00:51:19
Speaker
yeah that went up Yeah, keep showing up. That's a good reminder. I always like to say like in this age, there's just too much information. You would never take in that many people into your house and be like, tell me about my kid. Tell me what to do with my kid. That would be crazy to have 20 experts sitting in your living room and be like, actually try this, actually try this. And then you'd be like, wait, let me try this all tonight before bedtime. like Yeah. No. and And you didn't ask that expert. They just like popped up in your feed. and You're like, Oh, now you have an opinion on my kid. I didn't even search you out. And I think that's tough. I'm sure you can relate Beth as a person who puts out parent education. It's like,
00:51:56
Speaker
It's tough because when we started, it's like, well, no one's talking about this. We need to be an advocate for like our profession. We need people to be aware of this. And now that's like, there's so many voices. So we struggle. Like we never want to add to the noise, but like we want to be there too. And so, is I think you guys do such a good job that I never feel like you're like that. Like, don't do this. Do that. like Same. We love your posts and content are so encouraging. So we appreciate people like you in this space.
00:52:26
Speaker
Ditto. Oh my gosh, you guys are the best. Thank you so much for being here and we will link your milestones and anything else in the show notes too. Sounds good. Thanks for having us, Beth. Yeah, you're welcome.
00:52:37
Speaker
ah