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Lockdown Drills, School Boards and Transfers, and Asking the Right Questions: Part 2 of my Interview with the Principal
494 Plays23 days ago
In this part two episode with Principal Jon Arens, we continue exploring crucial topics that every parent and educator should know. We dive into lockdown drills, school transfers, and more, including:
- Lockdown drills and the tough realities of school safety.
- Transferring schools: What qualifies as a good reason to consider moving your child.
- School tours: Why security questions matter more than curriculum questions.
- The messenger matters: How the delivery of a message can be more impactful than the content itself.
- Bringing up concerns: Effective strategies for approaching teachers and administrators, ensuring that safety promotes risk-taking and learning.
- Who’s in charge of curriculum? The importance of having a designated expert managing curriculum decisions and how long to wait before assessing its effectiveness.
- Simple questions, big insights: How to ask the right questions to know if something isn’t working at school, and why involving multiple people on an email helps get answers.
- What do you do to support your teachers?
- Why are principals never at school?
- Does seating 'good' kids with 'bad' kids improve behavior?
- What’s being done to update outdated curriculum?
We also answer important questions like:Jon also gives parents actionable advice, from where to ask difficult questions to understanding the critical role of kindergarten teachers in shaping our society. Plus, why school board meetings are a must-watch for informed parents!
Check out bigcityreaders.com for more resources on these topics. Books:
Recommended
Transcript
Professional Development vs Curriculum Focus
00:00:04
Speaker
Whenever people ask about a school tour question, like ask more about like professional development, not what reading curriculum they use. like Yeah, like do you give your teachers time to do professional development.
Safety as a Primary Concern in Schools
00:00:15
Speaker
Safety has to drive everything. And if safety drives everything, you're doing right by kids. And if kids are safe, then they are more willing to take risks and learn more. And like it is the ultimate thing that drives everything. Kids only take risks. They only raise their hand if they feel safe.
Episode Introduction with Principal Insights
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey you guys, it's Beth. Welcome back. I am so pumped to share this episode with you because I've had tons of parents, other experts, therapists, speech pathologists, you name it. We have had them on the show and this episode is the first of its kind. It is with a principle.
00:00:52
Speaker
So I'm so excited to share his perspective as a both a parent and a former teacher and a principal because it is such a serious role and position. And this episode is just jam-packed answering all of your questions, whether you're a parent or a teacher, on school policies and curriculum change and supporting your teacher and what the principal role looks like and how to have classroom management and school management and everything in between. It's such a good episode that we had to break it into two parts because we talked for so long and honestly, I would follow this principle to building their own school if he ever decides to do that. And I did say that in the episode, but this is a great, great episode. I hope that you get as much out of it as I did. Enjoy.
Challenges in Curriculum Implementation
00:01:46
Speaker
I feel like this happens in my DMs a lot where people are like, Hey, my school is using this curriculum or we're in this district. And I'm like, it's not really regulated. Like it could be one teacher across the hall. could be It of course depends on the administration, but I'm like, I did a professional development at a school where these two, like at the end of it, I like stayed after for Two hours because these teachers had so many questions. They were like, okay, so they bought us this book and this book and these teachers were like, I don't know how to use it. And I like was like helping them like put Post-its on each of the pages. And the other first grade teacher was like, wait, you're using that book. I'm using something else. And they were both first grade teachers. And so I was like, how do I explain this to parents that it's like, even though it is regulated, it's not really regulated, like kind of,
00:02:36
Speaker
like teachers are implementing and
Strategies for Parents on Curriculum Concerns
00:02:38
Speaker
adding things on their own. And it's not like, okay, don't worry, this whole school is trained in this whole process. Like, do you have anything to say on like how that works?
00:02:48
Speaker
I do think that like getting into the weeds of curriculum for a parent and even for like most school boards is getting in the weeds. And every district is supposed to have you know someone in charge of curriculum. That that is like their main job. you know I have that license, that curriculum license. It's not a huge part of my practice, but I do have that license. And it is a job. It is a very specific job. It's no different than like being the business director of a school and managing the businesses.
00:03:16
Speaker
um It requires knowledge about like what is current and implementation. I mean, like the biggest part of being a curriculum person is knowing how to actually get it out of the box and then like tracking and seeing if something's working and not working and then like if it's not working, like how long do you give it? you know like That, I think, is really hard.
00:03:35
Speaker
And it's similar to like you know a business person going through and trying to do like a referendum for a school. you know if they If the referendum fails, is that business person going to like hang around? Probably not. you know if If curriculum doesn't work or there's like a big issue with curriculum, why would the curriculum person hang around and try to do that again? you know like I think that some of that does drive movement in that job, but that is a job. And it is something that I think is just I'm in this field and I would not feel comfortable waiting into like curriculum stuff at my own kids school. i I just wouldn't, you know, like I have to trust the people that are paid to navigate that and track that. And by all means, you can like share concerns, but I mean, there is a whole infrastructure at most districts for navigating curriculum.
Complexity of Curriculum Decisions
00:04:26
Speaker
Okay, so then what would you say this really leads into a big question people asked when I did the question box ask the principal, how would you say a parent should bring up a concern like if they're a parent that's like, listen, we listened to sold a story, we've been taking big city readers classes, I feel like I know reading curriculum and I know that when they send home use this strategy to look at the picture and take a guess and then help them memorize these 10 sight words. This is what we're doing in kindergarten. And that parent's like, wait a minute, I know these are red flags. How do I bring that up? I think asking how you can support at home
00:05:02
Speaker
is one of those questions that kind of leads to the same place without being as argumentative. So like, how do I implement this at home? If there's nothing behind it, it's going to be very hard for the, for someone to answer, how do you implement this at home? Or like, what should I be looking for? What should I be monitoring? How, how do I know if something's not working? Like if you ask simple questions like that, that are tied to like,
00:05:27
Speaker
What would happen in a good curriculum. You don't have to ask the question of like why are you using this curriculum.
Budget Constraints and Curriculum Changes
00:05:33
Speaker
You can just ask the questions about what makes a good curriculum curriculum and let the answers to what they need to do. If you know what good curriculum looks like and you know the elements of monitoring good curriculum and if it's working which, again, is lots of stuff that like comes from the world of special ed, progress reports, things like that. like If you know the elements that are required that aren't there, if you just ask about like how do I do this at home or like how do I know when my kids can be ready for this? Can you like give me a progress report on this specific thing? If it doesn't come,
00:06:08
Speaker
it might not exist. And if there's not any way to do something and you knew it already, but you asked of it, like that can get to the same place. I think that there's a lot of like leverage lost in asking the exact question. Do you know what I mean? Like i think yeah I think if you ask the exact question, the odds you get the answer you want are low. I think if you ask the question around what you know to be the problem and you just ask for like help and guidance, either like reading it or navigating or or what should I be looking for? I mean, these are not abrasive questions.
Constructive Conversations with Teachers
00:06:45
Speaker
These are tough questions, but like if they're tough and they're not answerable, eventually the accumulation of them will lead to change. And that is how that works.
00:06:55
Speaker
so i'm yeah That might be like a personal philosophy about how to solve problems, but I mean, I don't think it's a bad philosophy. I think that just being angry about something usually solves nothing. But if you're curious about something or you want some more information or, you know, like about something really specific and you put that in writing.
00:07:15
Speaker
You have the right people on the email. Don't put one person on an email if you want an answer. Those are things that you learn not in education, but you know like if you want an answer, put two people on an email and you can get answers and you can start conversation about things like that. But curricular changes do take a long time to take hold. i mean like It's part of a budget. It has to get allocated. It can't get switched over. you know like I always The big proponent of school is doing curriculum audits. What resources do we have? Which ones have we used? Which ones haven't we used? There's usually a process for disposing of old curriculum because it was purchased with tax dollars. you know like Going through like a curricular audit is a good thing. Going through curricular pilots is a good thing. you know Go to board meetings. i mean like I'm a dork, so I watch school board meetings that I'm not involved in. Thank you.
00:08:06
Speaker
I would encourage you to do it. not you know I watch like the public works meetings of our town too because I'm like super passionate about like how bad the parks are. so like like There is some civic duty in being aware of that conversation. so like When you do have an issue, you can like ask the right questions. Your school board is not going to know questions about curriculum stuff. It's going to be your learning coaches, your principals, the curriculum director, you know, the data person. A lot of bigger districts have data people whose whole job it is to analyze the effectiveness of curriculum. The teachers might not be giving the resources that they need to do it, and but they also might be like too nice to say anything about it. I mean, like I said, most teachers are really nice people that like just don't want to make a fuss about stuff. And then there are teachers that do want to make a fuss about stuff and then they usually become principals. And that's how that works. So like that is ah
00:08:56
Speaker
The life cycle so you know I do encourage parents a lot to like remind like themselves before going into a conversation with teachers like that to be prepared to say like how can I advocate for you like because sometimes yeah and it's not their parents job, but like not being like This I know all about this, but one being curious, because a lot of people will be like, well, I saw sight words. I'm like, well, listen, sight words do exist. Like read what I've actually said. It's like, it's about how we're teaching them. We only memorize irregular part, you know, it's, and that is how it's stored in the same place in the brain as when we're decoding.
Factors Influencing School Choice: Ideology vs Curriculum
00:09:32
Speaker
And so it's like, we don't want to ignore those words. So I'm like, okay, don't, like, don't go in like guns blazing and be like, wait, wait, wait, what? Like be like, Oh,
00:09:41
Speaker
Hey, can you explain this to me? Because you don't get it. And then then if there is a moment of like that teacher seeming too nice, being like, I'm on your team and I want to advocate for you. Is there something more I can like help the parents in the classroom get? Are there more books you need? yeah Is this a problem for your grade level that I can like reach out to the principal about? Like teachers do appreciate things like that. I would definitely caution against being like, I gotcha. Gotcha. Like, yeah you know, like that.
00:10:08
Speaker
Because that not that well for anyone yeah that does come out in those types of conversations. Like people know when you're asking a loaded question about curriculum, especially in this age, it's like such a curriculum work used to be like the most boring work ever. And now it's like the number one thing that gets fought about at every level of schools across the country. So, well i'm always like poor curriculum people.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, when people ask me about a curriculum, I'm like, I don't know enough about that curriculum to have an opinion on it. Like, I'm like, I was sure you get that i would weeks to look at it. Yeah. And I, and you know what, like curriculum is not unlike, like a pediatrician, you know, like people who are in administration, like they ask around about like, is this pediatrician good? Is this curriculum good? You know, like before they make a decision, they usually ask for like references and it, you know, if you've ever watched Parks meeting they always have like you know the parks proposal like we built a park here and here and here or here you can go look at it I mean that's really how like the curriculum stuff works, too um I would be lying to you if I told you that like curriculum Decisions weren't influenced by like the the actual network of the person who was making the decision they will reach out to the people that are
00:11:19
Speaker
You know, we, we all have our own administrative networks and things like that. So that that people that we trust or places we've been this work. I've brought stuff from places that I was and pitched it because I was like, this worked at this other school and I have a reason to believe based on like, this this, this and this that it would work here and this is why and.
00:11:38
Speaker
It's not something that I ever really had to do in my professional career until I was an administrator was like pitching you like the purchase of something which I like that I don't have to do that, but it is part of the deal and I do think that like.
00:11:52
Speaker
there is just so much curriculum. And like I said, some some states are start like Wisconsin has gone through the process of like figuring out which of the scientifically based reading programs are approved and they gave them it took forever. And I knew it was going to take forever. And they finally like, you know, got to the point where they could like release some names to schools and then schools could demo it. I mean, like that was like hugely valuable work because it took that conversation and that potentially like that back and forth away from the school level.
00:12:23
Speaker
Because it it really isn't like something that your teacher is necessarily going to have like an immediate answer on. And it does take a long time to like get it going. These are government contracts. These are things that get budgeted for and planned out. And it is it's not a fast process. No. Yeah. like just got to like that yeah yeah You got to temper your expectations for like advocating for curriculum change, as I would say.
School Tours: Asking Meaningful Questions
00:12:49
Speaker
And even like changing schools because of curriculum, again, that's like That's a big step. It's a big step. And i don't I don't know that I would do that unless I had like a really big problem with some sort of like you know equity issue. like They've refused to teach about the Holocaust, or they've refused to teach about like the Civil Rights Movement, or like they some something that I was just like, oh my gosh, like this is bad. like Or you know if you if you really need like religious ed in your child's curriculum,
00:13:18
Speaker
then that would be an example of something that would and instruct your decision on a school. But I do think that like that is kind of like where I would put it. Like something that you're like morally like against or like you have like an ideological problem with. Those are the types of like curriculum levels that I would be comfortable being like okay well that you know that's that's a reason. and but if it's like things are always changing so whenever people ask about a school tour question i'm like ask more about like professional development not what reading curriculum they use like yeah like do you give your teachers time to do professional development you know does it doesn't happen the week before school or two weeks before school you know like the yeah and and the answers are honestly going to be like all the same so like there is something to be said about like the
00:14:04
Speaker
somewhat uselessness of that question. but There's a lot of useless questions I think that people ask on a school tour. I give to school tours constantly. Oh my gosh, I want to come to one. I just like interacting with the families and figuring out like, it usually takes, you know, 20 minutes to figure out like, what is the thing that they are most interested in in school? It's not going to come in the first five minutes that you're talking to a person. No one tells you why they're actually there until like 20 minutes into a tour. And it's not going to happen sitting down either. It's going to happen walking.
00:14:35
Speaker
yes I think the biggest one that I get, which is a pretty interesting question, is do the little kids eat lunch in the lunch room or do they eat in the classroom? I love that question. Which I think is interesting because a lot of 3K, like my my son eats lunch in the classroom, a lot of 4K units do eat lunch in the classroom because they remove that transition element.
00:14:58
Speaker
I don't mind the transition element. I think it's good for kids to transition. It's learning. Lunch is learning. It's just learning in a different space and without like a curriculum. you know it's It's social learning. so i mean It is a class, and if they move to a different place for a class, that's a good thing. It shows them that there's like a different application and place for that class.
Benefits of Social Learning Experiences
00:15:20
Speaker
I'm a big proponent of little kids eating in a lunch room. I just say, I believe that it's a good thing. I think that it exposes kids to like the big kids that shows them, you know, like what's there? What is this school? I understand the staffing element of it and like opening milks. I've opened so many milks. I have opinions about how milks are created to not be allowed to open them. Tons of opinions about that. Like that's, there's lots of,
00:15:46
Speaker
things like that that make little kid lunch hard. But I do think that there is huge value in, you know, moving a kid out of a classroom for lunch. You know, I'm happy that people are asking these like more social emotional questions. Because I feel like people ask like, okay, sometimes people will like hire me to go on a tour with them. And I, and I i would love to get paid to do that. I would be excellent at that.
00:16:11
Speaker
I know. Please share me the business model that you have for that, because I would be either the best person or the worst person that could possibly go on a tour. I don't know. Well, it started because one of my friends, we actually worked together. Oh my gosh, we like have such a good history. of So we worked together as our first jobs out of college at the same school. She taught kindergarten. I was the reading interventionist. And then we ended up becoming such good friends. like I dated her brother-in-law. So like we would long distance go visit these brothers that lived in Ohio and we like just became best friends. She ended up um working for big city readers and like all the things. So we really align on a lot of stuff. So she was doing school tours and she was going to bring her husband and then she was like, oh, will you watch the baby like for an hour when we go? And she goes, wait a minute. Actually, I'm gonna leave a baby with my husband. Will you go with me? And her husband was like, what? and he And he goes, actually, yeah, Beth is going to ask way better questions than me.
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't i didn't thought about that as a ah as a side gig. Oh, absolutely. That's great. Yeah, I got to flush that out. Also, I was gonna say this earlier, if you ever and I don't want to do this, but I like want to I would be a part of it. I don't want to be like in charge of it. But if you ever would start schools, I would totally work on building a school with you. I that is excellent to know. I have I that's very nice. Thank you. Well, I'm like I'm thinking of everyone listening to this if they're a teacher or a parent.
Promoting On-Demand Courses
00:17:39
Speaker
Oh, hey, it's me interrupting myself to tell you if you're liking what you're listening to, then you're probably going to love my big city readers on demand courses. If you've ever wondered why is that word spelled with a G and not a J? Well, it's not just random. There's a reason for that. And you'll learn that in my spelling rules for second graders course. If you've ever wondered what letters to teach in what order to your preschooler, yeah, I teach you that in my preschool course too.
00:18:05
Speaker
If you've ever wondered what your kindergartners should be able to write or draw or if your toddler scribbles matter and how to guide them to the next step. Yep. You guessed it. All of my on demand courses teach you exactly how to do this. I am sort of obsessed with talking about the learning to read and write journey because I feel like there's so much misinformation about it. So I've dedicated my life to making sure that there's more clear cut fun information.
00:18:31
Speaker
And you can help your child and yourself by getting one of these courses. They are jam-packed into 15-minute on-demand lessons. And you're going to feel confident. Your child's going to feel confident. And be warned, this is no exaggeration. At least 20 parents have told me that at parent-teacher conferences, their teacher has said, oh, are you a reading specialist with the kind of questions they ask? So you're going to learn a lot. Your child's going to learn
Principal's Hands-On Approach
00:18:58
Speaker
a lot. You're both going to feel confident. I promise you.
00:19:01
Speaker
Um, this is really all I think about ever. Wow, I sound kind of boring when I say it like that. But anyway, check out the big city readers on demand courses. Let me know if you need any help deciding what the right course for your child is. And also like, let me know how the lessons are going if you're already doing them. Okay, back to the episode.
00:19:19
Speaker
I'm sad that I know that this is probably true, but people are probably like, there are no principles like him. Like when you're like talking about moving the curriculum boxes, like I rarely see principles that are that hands on. I mean, I do see it sometimes, but not as often. I mean, part of it is just my impatience. It's not like coming from the most honorable place in the world. I'm just, I can be impatient with logistics, I would say. So if something's happening that I just need to happen, I will just do it.
00:19:50
Speaker
which is not always my job and occasionally is not the way that's supposed to happen but I just like I'm like a to-do list person. I like crossing things off the to-do list. And I'm like writing things that I've already done so I can't cross them off on my
Balancing Administrative and Hands-On Roles
00:20:05
Speaker
to-do list. so It's the same thing as kids needing to like move their hands, like to roll up rugs and stuff. Like it's like, Oh, I see what I did. Yeah. I, right now our house does not need a lot of projects and it's frustrating me, which is a really weird psychological problem to have. Um, yeah but I just like that kind of stuff. So.
00:20:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's me. You should, except for the getting it done thing is sort of a problem because, for example, I moved a picture hanging in my office and then there was like a tear on the wall. And so I was like, oh, I'm just going to fix it with some paint. But the white paint actually wasn't the same white. So now it's just a little splotch of different color white paint. Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
but done is better than perfect, right? That's correct. Okay. So I want to get you out of here. and I'm going to get that phone for a second. I want to get you out of here, but the last thing is I want to do a two minute. This is going to be such a stretch of willpower. Yeah. I want to see how, no, I mean, but I want to see if you can do how many questions you can answer in two minutes with only one sentence. Okay. And it's going to be really hard. Yes. This is, this is now what I'm designed for.
00:21:14
Speaker
Same. Me neither. I just added this segment to the podcast. It's good practice. why Well, it's i I could talk for years only about something that I care about. If I don't care about it, I literally will exit the conversation in my brain.
00:21:29
Speaker
you know like yeah okay so i did an ask Ask the principal box. and Okay. First question. Have you listened to the crack in the marble jar? No.
00:21:41
Speaker
Oh, they says they said it's so valuable. I actually haven't either. So maybe we should have a book listening club. Yeah, I love book clubs. Got so much time for that. I'll put it on my list. Just pretend it's a project. That's true. Okay. How do you balance political and state pressures for versus what's best for kids? Well, what's best for kids is always the most important. Safety has to come first in any building decision. If you err on the side of what's best for kids, you're always going to be on the right side. I mean, like things move forward.
00:22:09
Speaker
like anything, any civil right, any anything like that.
Safety and Political Pressures in Schools
00:22:12
Speaker
There's occasionally pauses and speed bumps. But like if you're always error on the right side of your morality is like you can deal with that. There's plenty of school districts. I know that, for example, like in Louisiana, I think we sort of they were doing some big thing about like teaching the 10 commandments or something like that. and they And like some school districts were like, we're just not going to do this. And that they were like, OK.
00:22:39
Speaker
And then they just have to figure out a court, you know, like that, like, just do what is best for kids and do what um is safe for kids. And then, you know, there's, there's plenty of people that can decide the rest of it. And, you know, that's what I try to frame all my decisions on what's best for kids and what's safe for kids in private for kids to, you know, like, am I respecting the privacy of kids is another big one.
00:23:02
Speaker
agree. And you know what, the religion piece obviously is like so separate, but there is a lot in it of like, what actually is developmentally appropriate of what kids can understand about what you're saying about the podcast.
00:23:15
Speaker
so podcast It is. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, everyone's like, let us do whatever. I'm like, this is maybe a little much, but anyway. Okay. Next question. This one's funny. Why are you never at school?
00:23:27
Speaker
Well, I split time between buildings, so I do get this question like every day. A kid just asked me this like 10 minutes ago. um I think there's a lot of work that happens behind the scenes as a building level principle that you don't understand. I think that being really visible is important as a building level principle, but you have to like.
00:23:46
Speaker
Figure out what time of the day that you're like really gonna hit on that like are you gonna be there for carline? And pick up like all the time like that's gonna be your time to like interact with the kids Are you gonna always go to like a specific recess or like a specific lunch? You know I try to go to like at least one of the lunches every day You know I can't sit there the whole day, but like I try to get and and and do that I you know like popping into classrooms I understand like the trauma of an administrator coming into your classroom as a teacher. So like I try not to do that too much unless I have like a really you know good relationship with the teacher and they know that I can just like walk in and I'm not like taking notes on them or evaluating them. There's just a lot that goes into the job um that is really unseen. Being a building principal is one of the hardest jobs in America. um Yeah. It's really hard. i It's just really hard. this It's like being a CEO.
00:24:42
Speaker
And a politician yeah like showing up at different events for a quick amount of time. And customer service, and IT, and you know if a boiler goes out, you've got to handle that. you know like And a manager of the teachers. HR. It's a big job. I would try to give principals some grace. how As much as you can, I would try to, because it it is ah it is a hard job.
00:25:05
Speaker
My mom, historically, Boomer parents don't really understand entrepreneur roles. you know And they're like, oh, a teacher is a secure job. i'm like um but My mom always is like, you should go back to school and be a principal. And I'm like, mom, I would never. I mean, I love being a principal. I just, it it is. You have to want it. It's a hard job. It's a hard job. There's no part of me that wants it. I'm too, I would cry. I think I would cry every day. I don't think I've cried today. Oh, that's good. It's still early. Yeah.
00:25:35
Speaker
OK, next question. Really easy one to answer. How do you balance teaching safety without instilling fear in kids when we have to do lockdown drills?
00:25:46
Speaker
I mean, the good thing and the bad thing about lockdown drills is that they've become so normal that it's like almost part of these kids' lives and teachers' lives. And it's just like another thing that you have to do, like your blood-borne pathogens training. You know, like 10 years ago,
00:26:05
Speaker
it was much more traumatic. I think now it's a normal part and that's really sad to say, but kids are really good about it. And parents have lots of anxieties about it. I totally understand that. That's a good thing to ask questions about on a tour is like, you know, as a single entrance school, you know, like what's the check-in process? Like ask security questions on a tour. That's a great thing to ask. How hard is it to, you know, like get in this lobby? You know, like that is That's a good question. It's become a part of the educational world and um it makes me really sad that we have to prepare kids for it, but it is so important to prepare kids for it. And if you're going to like go to war and be an advocate for something in your school district, like go to war and be an advocate for like the security of your buildings and like making sure the entrances are secure and like th FOBs are work and like, you know,
00:27:02
Speaker
Things like that, that is something that I have no problem going to war over is that kind of stuff because that stuff is the stuff that can kind of change fast. Yeah. And you don't want it to change because something bad happened. Right. um Yeah. Kids are a lot better with it than parents are. And I think part of it is because as parents, a lot of us have gone through, you know, like,
00:27:25
Speaker
you know I was really young when Call of Mine happened. I remember that though. you know like I remember watching that. and i mean The best comparisons is way more than a sentence, but that question was tough. um I know. It would probably be like the 9-11 stuff. i mean you know TSA and like the process for going through an airport is this process that we all go through. The only reason it exists is because of 9-11.
00:27:49
Speaker
Right. Remember how easy it used to be? a Barely. Yeah. I used to love going to the airport. I mean, like there's, so I, yeah, I mean it directly correlates with my love for travel. So like, I don't, um, I think unfortunately in society, bad things happen that change processes. And this is something that has changed the process of going to school in our country. And there's so much time and energy spent on making sure schools are safe.
00:28:16
Speaker
That would be the thing that I would tell parents that having anxiety about it is there's so much time and energy and it's such a point of emphasis. It's the first thing I answer. Safety is the most important thing. Like I don't care about curriculum when it comes to like the safety of, you know, a kid is the most important
Effective Communication with Children
00:28:31
Speaker
thing. And um if that's the first answer that you get out of administrator, that means they're doing their job. So, I mean, that is, that is part of our job.
00:28:41
Speaker
I always tell kids, I'm like, do you know what my job is? And I like to teach me how to read. I'm like, no, my job is to keep you safe. And that means, I don't say this to them, but I say this to parents. And it's weirdly a controversial issue. But I mean, every child's emotional and physical safety is my job to protect. And that means like,
00:29:00
Speaker
from being represented in books in their classroom to making sure that like the bathroom structures are appropriate or they scheduled it so they're not wandering the halls alone. And you know so kids are always shocked by that. But that is what everyone's goal is. Yeah, safety has to drive everything. And if safety drives everything you're doing right by kids and if kids are safe, then they are more willing to take risks and learn more and like It is the ultimate thing that drives everything. Kids only take risks. They only raise their hand if they feel safe. If you walk into a classroom and no one's raising their hand, that's a red flag. you know like Think about it. Yeah, I was actually just talking with my dog Walker about this, because my dog has anxiety. And he was saying, because he was like, is she treat motivated? And I was like, sort of, like, yes, I could have a burger. But once she goes into fight or flight, because she has she's a rescue and she has some sort of anxiety,
00:29:56
Speaker
the burger isn't going to do anything. So sort of like similar to like behavior charts, it's like, Oh, you got on the purple zone. Like, it's like, if you're in fight or flight, that's not going to do anything. If your child is so stressed about something, you talking to them and teaching them this amazing lesson or reading them their favorite book, they are in fight or flight. It's not getting through to them. Yeah. And I always tell people like the message is not always as important as the messenger and you you have to sometimes outsource the the message coming from someone else. If it's a therapist or it's like another adult or like some, there is a lot of value in who is delivering the message and like the location, the messages being
Social-Emotional Learning and Peer Dynamics
00:30:35
Speaker
delivered. If you only ever have really difficult conversations with your kid in their bedroom, they're going to associate difficult conversations with your bedroom. If you have difficult conversations with someone while they're walking around or like on a walk or, you know, I like to do it like in the car, you know, like if I'm going to ask my kid like a tougher question, like,
00:30:53
Speaker
in the car, because they can kind of like focus in on it. And I don't care if they don't like you know being in the car. So like ah I would be mindful of like who's delivering the message. If your message is not being delivered, don't give up on the message. Just you know think about like where you're delivering it, what time of day you're delivering it, and is it critical that it comes from you?
00:31:15
Speaker
Wow, that is amazing advice. I also want to say ah two things on this topic. We're crushing this question, by the way. we I know. you this is I'm going to give you your award for this. I apologize to your staff. like i'll give you tell I'll give them whatever they want um for keeping you this long. But it all comes back to write classroom management because it is not like hopefully good teachers that have the good resources and have the support from administration are using these lockdown drills as just an extension of classroom management. telling fear, hopefully, like it's like, Oh, remember, when I say this special word, no matter what you are doing, you put your eyes on me, you drop what you're doing, and you come over here. And hopefully, like little kid classrooms like preschool are practicing that not just in a lockdown drill, but then it's like, Oh, remember, there's that special word, we go silently to the closet, here's your lollipop, like yeah they've practiced it. So yeah, it's sad, but it's necessary. And every it's necessary for every school and every childcare setting is necessary. So
00:32:15
Speaker
Okay, let me end on a lighthearted question. So you can go to visit your lunch people. Okay, this one doesn't really have like a question. It just says seeding quote, good kids with quote, bad ones, because they will not talk slash goof off with them, but it stresses the quote, good kids out.
00:32:39
Speaker
This is a good one. I actually have like a super good example of how I've used this in my practice in high school. I don't think it's as effective for little kids. I do think that once kids are in middle school, who they sit by absolutely impacts their behavior. I think if you sit a kid who is really disruptive, like a middle schooler or a high schooler, next to the most serious person who can advocate for themselves in like a decent way,
00:33:10
Speaker
That does impact their behavior. I have literally seen it happen where the person was worried about that perceptive that can work in very specific situation. But for little kids, I don't love it. I think it puts a lot of.
00:33:25
Speaker
onus on the other kid to be the model. like why Why does this kid have to be part of like an experiment? I think that social emotional learning is challenging because there's only so much that an adult can do. So much of it is driven by peers. And at the end of the day, it is not the obligation of a student's peer to be participant or complicit in their learning about a social emotional
Episode Conclusion and Engagement Encouragement
00:33:45
Speaker
skill. So you can't tell a kid, like hey, like today, I know you like wanted to work on this, but you're actually going to be like the example for this kid.
00:33:54
Speaker
They're like, what? like I just want to do my work. So like I am not a fan of using like models. I know that one thing for like a group project or something like that, that's like more normal, I would say. But again, it's more for like older kids. I think that like that kind of specific grouping is more effective in like middle school and high school, where kids are more self-conscious about like their own peer perspectives. And that's not like a terrible thing because That happens in all work. you know like If you're on a group project at work and you get assigned to like the the manager that is the most neurotic, like yeah that's going to change how you're or you get assigned to the manager who's the most fun. That's going to absolutely change how you do stuff. So I think for older kids, it makes more sense. For little kids, I think that like it's a huge
00:34:44
Speaker
It's actually doing a disservice for the kid that you're trying to make the model um ah agree. I will say that in search situations like a lunch room. That's not necessarily i like if it's outside of the classroom. It's fine. I think if it's in the classroom, I think I have more problems with that. Yeah, I do think that in general.
00:35:03
Speaker
we need to be more aware of the quote good kid because it is as hard on them like to have that adult responsibility that we're giving them. So agree. Okay. I need to let you go. You have given me so much of your time. I appreciate it so much. Next time I'll book you after bedtime yes or in between. Um, but thank you so much. I know that everybody's going to be messaging saying that they want you to be their principal after this. So I consider cloning yourself. I think I tried to already with my kids, but it's not going great. So we'll just put on some more bluey. Yeah, that's right. Well, this is a very nice talking to and i hope talk to you again. Okay. Talk to you soon.