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Ep. 66 Am I Doing Enough? Understanding Your Baby & Toddler with Ayelet Marinovich @Learnwithless
545 Plays12 days ago
Are you constantly wondering if you're doing enough as a parent? Do you feel pressure to “get it right” when it comes to your baby or toddler’s development? In this episode, I’m joined by Ayelet Marinovich, pediatric speech-language pathologist, parent educator, and founder of Learn With Less®. She’s the author of Understanding Your Baby and Understanding Your Toddler, two incredible resources that remind parents: you don’t need fancy toys or complicated activities—your everyday interactions are already powerful learning moments.
We talk about:
🧠 Why you don’t need more stuff to help your child learn
✨ How to feel confident that you’re doing “enough”
👶 The surprising ways babies and toddlers learn best
📚 Simple, evidence-based ways to support early development
🎵 Why everyday routines (yes, even diaper changes!) are packed with learning opportunities
If you’ve ever doubted yourself as a parent, this episode is your reminder: you are enough. 💛
📖 Resources Mentioned:
- Ayelet’s books: Understanding Your Baby & Understanding Your Toddler
- Follow Ayelet on Instagram: [@LearnWithLess]
- Big City Readers Baby Course SALE
🎧 Listen now & share with a parent who needs this reassurance today! #ParentingConfidence #EarlyLearning #LearnWithLess #BigCityReaders
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
Thank you.
Introduction to Ayelet Marinovich and Learn With Less
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back to the Play on Words podcast. I am so excited and a little bit nervous today to have um Ayelet Marinovich here from Learn With Less to talk about do kids really need toys to learn and thrive?
00:00:37
Speaker
If you don't know Ayelet, she is a child development guru, parent, play-based learning specialist at speech therapist too, right? at ah So many things. I'll let you introduce yourself, but this is an episode I already know is going to be so great. So welcome to the show. so ah Thank you so much for having me, Beth. It's great to be here.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yay. Okay. So tell us a little bit about you and Learn With Less and for the people who might not know you. Sure.
Ayelet's Journey and Learn With Less Foundation
00:01:04
Speaker
So again, I'm Ayelet. I have been a speech and language therapist since, gosh, 2009, 10. And when became mom in 2014,
00:01:12
Speaker
ah and i when i became a mom in two thousand and fourteen I was far from my own sort of where I grew up, which was here in California, but my partner and I had moved to London.
00:01:29
Speaker
ah And so I was pregnant and had my first child there across the pond and was really, of course, looking for number one, community and number two, you know, just sort of a way to,
00:01:47
Speaker
utilize the knowledge that I have in my professional arena and connect that with creating connection points with other new families. And so i started leading caregiver and baby classes with my own child, just in my community out of our home and loved it, loved it so much because it was an opportunity to connect, to ah bring people together,
00:02:16
Speaker
And again, to share information that at least I knew, right? Obviously, the overwhelm of early parenthood is is intense. And this was a place that I could feel confident and feel at least a little bit less vulnerable ah and and really sort of share that information with other new parents and caregivers who I knew were feeling the same way.
00:02:44
Speaker
And so, yeah, I just started leading these these groups and really facilitating these groups and and utilizing that knowledge and just expanding on the kinds of questions that I was getting And asking myself of like, what do what can I do to support and connect with this teeny tiny human in my world?
00:03:09
Speaker
And ah yeah, that's, that's how it came to be. wow And so now are you still leading them? or are you mostly training and coaching other people to lead them?
Licensing Curriculum and Expanding Impact
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, primarily i license and ah support other educator and therapist types to utilize the curriculum that I developed to use that in their own communities, which is amazing because it expands, of course, the impact that I can have exponentially and really allows me to feel ah like I'm putting something into the world that is healing and helpful.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, it and it is. i even like the the song on your podcast. Is that in, do you sing that in the class? Like, ah hello, everybody. I get it stuck in my head when I'm listening.
00:04:02
Speaker
know I'm just singing it in my own house, like I'm making dinner. um So, okay. So you're, ah do you, do you miss then teaching the in-person conversation?
00:04:15
Speaker
or the the actual caregiver in me classes now. That's like my growing pain too, is that like, you know, it's, you want to have a bigger reach, but you kind of have to give a little...
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah. And I do from time to time often offer them virtually. Okay. I mean, it's funny, right? Because the when I started the licensing program, it was so February 2020.
00:04:39
Speaker
so So there was, of course, a big switch into, okay, right. I now need to ensure that other folks also are able to lead these virtually, which I had actually been doing since 2017 myself.
00:04:54
Speaker
And for a variety of reasons, there has always been a need for, you know, virtual ah connection and always will be. And ah yeah, so so I do. I do still from time to time, especially when I'm getting that itch.
00:05:10
Speaker
Oh, good. Yeah, that's kind of how I do too. I was just talking with someone yesterday and they were like, so you don't get to be with kids anymore. i was like, no, I still do. i do like a once a month meetup or, you know, but it's, it is like, I, so it's it's so hard because you're like I want to reach every kid and family. i think we align a lot on that. Like that is my, my big focus is community for families in,
00:05:33
Speaker
whether they're in school or in the baby stage. But it just it does. Originally, i started because it was I saw so many people having struggles with like parents knowing how to advocate for their child in an IEP meeting or like things like that.
00:05:49
Speaker
I was like, there needs to be a bridge between school and home of like how to find your community, ask the right resources. And then it expanded um to people who don't need IEPs, but just, yeah
Everyday Objects vs. Expensive Toys
00:06:02
Speaker
it's such a need. It's a community is such ah an important part of ah being a parent.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yes. Especially in these uncertain times. yeah I know every post I do, I'm like, does this matter? The world is on fire. I don't know. um You are a big advocate of use what you have. I mean, your literal company is called learn with less. right And i I think it's, I once posted something many years ago and I still think about it because I kind of got in trouble.
00:06:34
Speaker
But I posted but something that was like a popular toy subscription company had sent me like this little toy that was a box and it had tissues in it. And do you pull them out. And I was like, so cute.
00:06:47
Speaker
and And I made a post that was like, and also this box of tissues does the exact same thing. There's no need to buy this. And literally have one sitting right behind me.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yes. And the reason I got in trouble is because a toy store owner was like, I'm so mad at you. But I was like, I'm sorry. there There's enough for people that want to buy toys and and people to know that they don't need to. So can you talk a little bit about like maybe what role toys actually play in child development? Yeah.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, first of all, i i like to say this whole the the baby industry ah is sort of a the emperor has no toys situation.
00:07:33
Speaker
Right. um to i i I am not anti-toy. My children have always had toys either that I have bought or that other family members or people in our community have have given them. But my my kids also have always known that the wooden spoon and the paper towel roll are equally as, number one, entertaining, and number two, entertaining.
00:08:00
Speaker
ah an an equally valid developmental tool, right? It's not the power of any tool or toy is not inherently on the the box that says this is an educational toy, ah right? Anyone can put that.
00:08:17
Speaker
I can slap a tag on on a you know cupcake liner any day and say educational toy. yes it's it's the It's the actual interaction that makes the difference.
00:08:33
Speaker
I think ah it really comes down also to what what is what is the power of connection, right?
The Four Pillars: Play, Talk, Sing, Move
00:08:42
Speaker
And at Learn With Less, we have four pillars that sort of we wanna define around ah creating more connection, more opportunities for interaction, more vocabulary, more modeling, more reciprocity.
00:08:59
Speaker
So those are, as as I define them here at Learn With Less, play, talk, sing, and move. And I'm happy to sort of go into that ah yeah if you'd like. so Please.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah. So around play, we want to define that with attention to the following principles, right? Sort of open-ended play, meaning we want to encourage caregivers to really engage in the exploration of the environment and everyday objects. And being playful can simply mean exploring, experimenting, exploring,
00:09:34
Speaker
offering varied environments and varying objects. And most importantly, we we want to actually help the adults in the room see that being playful is a different way of looking at what we as grownups come to define as play, right? Many adults in the room come to into the idea of like playing with their child as following set of rules, like we hit the ball, we run, we score, or as a procedural exercise. We open the book, we read the page, we turn the page, repeat.
00:10:05
Speaker
So encouraging caregivers to play with no specific end goal in mind can actually really require them to reframe their entire thinking. reframe he me their entire thinking ah Now, of course, i I think a lot of your audience are educators or therapists as well. So in a therapeutic context, you're going to want to weave whatever skill you're working on into the play, of course. So whether it's turn taking or eye gaze or joint attention or imitation or first words or gesture use.
00:10:38
Speaker
we want to encourage ah We want to create an environment where that caregiver is encouraged to be flexible and accepting of what is happening, what might happen next, and what their child is doing.
00:10:50
Speaker
And then, of course, finally within that play, we want to ensure safety with a variety of materials. Okay. Yeah. so so Okay, I'm imagining. Yeah.
Open-Ended Play with Simple Objects
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm imagining. I always try to go to like the – I try to work on remembering that like not everyone – is as has all of the information. So I try to go, okay, if I'm like the furthest point out, I'm imagining that my parent, I'm like, so how do i play with my kid? Say I'm sitting in my living room, and we have I'm drinking my coffee, and he likes the plastic lid that I took off from the coffee shop we stopped at this morning.
00:11:28
Speaker
Like, how do we play with that? What is it? And I think a lot of parents also think like play means I have to like be silly, which I think maybe we can correct that. And maybe, so me I think people want like a specific goal. So if they're like, okay, so what do, how do I pick what topic I want to do with this lid? And, you know, then they just get stuck they're like, I don't know. Do I be like, ah, the lid is on my head.
00:11:51
Speaker
Ah, you know, kind of. Right. Well, actually, yeah. I mean, my default is always everything is a hat, right? um Okay, so that is a good move. It's a great method. Yeah. I i really, i mean, it's really about following the child's lead, right? So if if your child is interested in that plastic lid, then yeah, what are they doing with it?
00:12:14
Speaker
all you All you need to do is talk about what they're what they're doing. What are they doing? How are they engaging with it? Ooh, it's light. Yeah. Yep. You can pick it up. I wonder if there's something heavy over here or, um you know, just, just speak about what they are doing with it or how it feels or what it looks like.
00:12:35
Speaker
ah Engage with that. Of course, we can always expand, right? Take, take what they are doing and add more language. Yeah. yeah I can imagine, you know, easily like pushing a finger down and sort of popping it up, right?
00:12:51
Speaker
ah and there's so There's so much that we can either lead with and an and model or simply just follow what our child is doing and how they are interested in it.
00:13:04
Speaker
I love it. Okay. That's, that's easy. And okay. Do you have a timeframe around that? So I think like, I think people get, i know, i know we would say like, no, just follow their lead, but right so many people are like, okay, then like how long do I sit? And like, should I introduce something else now? I think, I think we've gotten very um far from like, I think we've like overanalyzed things so much as a society that people feel like they're not doing anything right. And it's like, no, you're worrying about it is the only problem.
00:13:32
Speaker
Right. i I think parenting is such a practice of of being able to sit with, ah and ah which is, of course, something i will be the first thing person to say that I absolutely still struggle with that. My kids are 8 and 11 now. Yeah.
00:13:52
Speaker
um But, you know, I think so it's paying attention to what's happening in the environment. It's looking at is is the child still engaged?
00:14:03
Speaker
Great. Continue to reinforce that engagement. Are they finding that they're done? Great. We're all done with this. We can move on to the next thing.
00:14:13
Speaker
ah But I think, yeah, like you said, there's... It's very hard, I think, for families to trust themselves. And so much about of what this is all about, what I try to achieve, I guess, at Learn With Less is fostering confidence and ah competence, right? Helping families feel confident and competent that they can be with and ah facilitate and engage in in play.
Creating a Language-Rich Environment
00:14:47
Speaker
And the means to do that are often through these four pillars of play and talk and sing and move, which are, again, just an open-ended opportunity to enjoy your child for a few minutes. Because I think another thing is, like you said, people think that play is okay. I have to be silly.
00:15:08
Speaker
i have to do pretend play. I'm not good at that. I don't want to do that. Or I don't even have more than 10 minutes of you know, a day to dedicate to sitting and totally being present. But I think the example you gave Beth is so good, right? Because it's literally, okay, I've sat down with this maybe lukewarm cup of coffee.
00:15:29
Speaker
I'm finally getting a few minutes to sit with it and my child. And so much can happen within those in-between times. And a lot of what I talk about at Learn With Less too is is utilizing those everyday routines and tiny rituals of the day.
00:15:47
Speaker
That's your gold, right? We don't need to necessarily dedicate 20 minutes a day to sitting with our child. We are literally doing it during a diaper change, when you're putting your child's shoes on or sweater on, when you are going out to get the mail.
00:16:05
Speaker
All of those little things are the opportunities. Yeah, those tiny moments. And those are like often the times we're like rushing through to get to the next part.
00:16:15
Speaker
But that's when everything's happening. Also, when you were just talking, I thought, okay, I went from being like, how are people, people are gonna like, what do I do? Okay, so say they want to play with this lid. And can we give them play? And then when you rename the pillars again, play, talk, sing and move, I then like got to okay, so maybe you're like, then like, pushing the lid, and then you're going to chase it.
00:16:37
Speaker
And then you get it. And then you are popping the thing and you're going pop, pop, pop, pop goes the top. And, you you know, just little, those little moments. So maybe, maybe walk us through, maybe let's keep this as the example and through the rest of the pillars.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah. So, okay. So we've started with play. All right. So then talk. So like you said, pop, pop, pop, pop goes the top. That's both talk and sing, right? Because you're saying vocabulary and you're making it into some rhyming scheme You're giving it ah ah a rhythm or a melody.
00:17:11
Speaker
So around talk, right, we want to we want to remember that caregivers, ah just by having discussions with their potentially pre-verbal baby or toddler, just by making those observations ah alongside their child, they're creating a language-rich environment, right?
00:17:29
Speaker
So repetition with variation is that gold standard, right? Yeah. So helping them see the value in all those everyday experiences like we were talking about around the diaper change or popping the the lid of the coffee topper.
00:17:44
Speaker
ah And these are all these are opportunities for repetition because maybe you do go get a cup of coffee every morning. Right. Right. And tiny variations that you can make with a change of pace, with a change of attention, with the addition of a choice-making ah opportunity, with a little song like pop, pop, pop goes the top and so on. Like that's that's it.
00:18:08
Speaker
And ah so we also want to help caregivers remember that the drill and kill kind of, what's this? What's this? Labeling kind of thing that many parents sort of get stuck in because they want their child to show them how much they know.
00:18:23
Speaker
is just one of the many reasons we communicate, right? Labeling is just one way we can talk about things. But so is asking questions, making requests, greeting, right?
00:18:35
Speaker
like You could hold up that lid and say, hello, and then move the the little topper that goes in and out, and that can be its mouth. Suddenly, you have a puppet. Oh, my goodness, how cute, right?
00:18:48
Speaker
um And so, so many other parts of... Joint attentional acts and socially interactive acts and behavioral regulation acts are are all talk, right?
00:19:01
Speaker
Creating that language rich environment. And and we all communicate using a variety of means and modes, right? Not just with words. All those precursors to language, all those additional ways like eye gaze and facial expressions and gestures and moving closer to an object, right?
00:19:19
Speaker
So maybe your child is pre-verbal and they're not going to say something, but you might move that funny little top that's become a puppet closer to their face and they might move towards it too.
00:19:31
Speaker
And then all of a sudden when they're not expecting it, hello, hello. Right? it's There's so much that we can infuse with these silly little objects that often end up in our recycling containers that are opportunities for engagement.
00:19:48
Speaker
um And modeling you know our own curiosity, talking about our own feelings, imitating their vocalizations and verbalizations and movements are all supporting various areas of communication, right?
00:20:01
Speaker
And caregivers are the primary language models, right? They are the ones modeling what they want their child to then imitate. So not only do we want to help them model a wonderful variation of vocabulary and that formation of sentences, et cetera, but we also want them to model positive behavior, a positive communication styles. And we want them to talk to their children, around their children in the ways that, you know, they want them eventually to do the same.
00:20:30
Speaker
to them. yeah So that is how I sort of define talk. And then we have sing, right? Often this is the one people have the most trouble sort of just gathering the resources and just doing.
00:20:44
Speaker
right But I want to really encourage people to remember that this pillar of sing doesn't necessarily mean singing a specific song with specific vocabulary.
00:20:56
Speaker
ah singing every day or in every way with their child, right? There's so many ways to be musical, just like pop, pop, pop, pop. ah But because music is so powerful, just giving giving ah caregivers ways to feel at ease trying things out ah and giving children ways to trying things to try things out by modeling our own imperfection, right? And using music to add a silly element to a simple routine, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
This one being a wonderful example. Another one might be the diaper change, right? Stinky diaper. It's time for a new one. Or ah my personal favorite that came out of a moment of brilliance.
00:21:44
Speaker
ah Is there poo-poo in there? Is there a poo-poo in there? Was it only air or is there poo-poo in there? That's my... that's my Oh my gosh. I love that. So like, this is, I think parents and caregivers need this permission to like, just being silly actually is helpful.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah. Right. When you have the capacity. Right. Yes. Yes. So I just thought of when you said like using talk and sing to um model like Both communication and like stuff that you want them to do. you You know, like the little tiny Tim, the froggy. I had a little froggy. His name is Tiny Tim.
00:22:23
Speaker
I always do at the burp, like he had a bubble in his throat and he, you know, and we do a big burp and then I always go, and what should he say? Excuse me. you know, like in those moments, because it's like, well, yeah, it can be fun to do Tiny Tim. And there's a lot of language benefits and literacy benefits and all of the things in that. But also like, it's just, you can add in manners and there's, there's so, um there's so much. And I think that, that people often also get
00:22:54
Speaker
get in on that question thing, you know, when we're like, what does a duck say? What does a cow say? I like to remind grownups that um like, try to think about yourself in conversations. Like, are you just asking questions? Like, that's not a good conversation if you're just asking a dozen questions someone. Like, that's going to get really boring for the other person. Right. You have to leave that space for the dialogue. And yeah,
00:23:19
Speaker
yeah And so I think that's a good reminder. Yeah. And sometimes just pausing at the end, like towards the end of a sentence or ah a poem or a chant or a melody of a song is such an effective thing. Right. And that's actually there's a name for that. It's called the closed procedure. Right. Where you're like, and what what do we do next? We.
00:23:44
Speaker
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00:23:55
Speaker
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00:24:14
Speaker
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00:24:26
Speaker
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00:24:39
Speaker
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00:24:52
Speaker
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00:25:10
Speaker
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00:25:24
Speaker
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00:25:38
Speaker
buckle our seatbelt or whatever it is. and And so when you have that sort of repetition and routine, you you allow them to know, number one, what's coming next. And number two, ah offer an opportunity for them to either verbally or gesturally take the next step and fill in that gap.
00:26:00
Speaker
Oh, I love it That is... That's great. I also love to do that when um i'm trying to I'm talking about teaching rhyming. And so, of course, I'm sure you know Little Blue Truck. I could read it in my sleep, but you know my examples always go horn went beep engine purred. The friendliest sound you ever heard.
00:26:20
Speaker
Mm hmm. And I always am ah coaching parents and teachers and caregivers that even if they're not going to know the rhyme yet, or even if they don't just leave a little bit of time.
00:26:32
Speaker
And then if they're not doing it, then just fill it in. But giving that amount of time is going to help them start to realize, oh, those two words are rhyming words. Oh, there's a word that goes there. Oh, there's yeah I need to. That's that's not just one sentence. Like those are separate words.
00:26:46
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, I'm just, I'm imagining this whole thing and and visually I'm seeing myself cupping my hand against my ear, right? Friendliest sound you ever put the hand against the ear. And that's a gestural opportunity for someone, for a child who's maybe nonverbal, pre-verbal to give that gesture of pervert.
00:27:13
Speaker
I love that. Okay, amazing. So then move. Wait, is move next? yeah Yeah, move is next.
Movement's Role in Child Development
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah. Great. Tell us about move. So number one, movement is life, right? Their child learns about everything by learning how...
00:27:31
Speaker
their body moves, where it is in space by sort of solving that problem of how to balance and lift and figuring out elements of force and in gravity and of becoming the scientists that they are through movement, right? So we want to help caregivers remember that even with a tiny baby or a child with motor challenges, they can consider various movement planes, right? Whether it's during tummy time or during a dance party or a lullaby, whether it's to stimulate or to regulate, and exploration cannot be contained, right? It is learning. So we might have some movement in and out of the location where the session started.
00:28:12
Speaker
We might be sitting up or laying down on the floor. We might be mouthing something or exploring how one surface is different from the next, right? movement is also connected to gesture, right? So pushing, pulling, raising a hand, ah waving, all of those things.
00:28:31
Speaker
But even in that example earlier that you were giving of like pushing that that coffee lid on um on the floor, for instance, is say with a little toddler, you can you can have them flick it with their finger or with their whole hand or their the tops of their fingers or with a foot, right? There's so many ways to ah integrate movement. And we know that ah early gestural ah communication is also linked to this this movement as well.
00:29:07
Speaker
So yeah, it's all it's all connected. to And I want to also just name out loud that all of these things, play, talk, sing, move. There's overlap with all of them, of course. was just going to say that.
00:29:20
Speaker
So it's not like ah you you you can, you know, check one off the list and be done with it. It's it's a it's an ebb and flow. You're always playing. All of this is play.
00:29:33
Speaker
But how can you infuse more playfulness, more language, more ah melody or rhythm or and more movement into your everyday moments with your child? And that awesome.
00:29:48
Speaker
Those four things are how we support cognition, communication, motor and sensory development, and social and emotional development.
00:29:59
Speaker
That is how it happens. And it's sort of this developmental matrix that I like to talk about of like play is like there are ways that you can play that support cognition. There are ways that you can play that support communication. There are ways that you can play that support communication.
00:30:17
Speaker
motor and sensory development, et cetera, et cetera. And then same goes for all of the other pieces. Yeah. I was just thinking, um we love the song zoom, zoom, zoom. and that seems to be, ah I'm like, Oh, in that song, you're doing all of things. Cause you're doing zoom, zoom, zoom. yes We're flying to the moon.
00:30:37
Speaker
And then, um, the, when you do blast off and you lift the baby in the air, it's like playful, it's movement. You're flying them around the room. Um, even the part, if you want to take a trip, climb aboard my rocket ship, like has talk in it and rhyming like so many, there's that like singing. If your baby wants you to sing zoom, zoom, zoom 10 times, guess what? You just did all of the components.
00:31:01
Speaker
Exactly. you need to do And maybe they're telling you that they want you to do Zoom, Zoom, Zoom by moving their hands in that way that is representative of that song, right?
00:31:14
Speaker
So it's really just, it's to me, it's really, you know... it's not about you getting to like show off all your cute therapy toys or getting to use your laminator as a provider.
00:31:26
Speaker
ah But like for every single material that you use as a provider or a therapist or educator, for instance, if you're bringing something into the home, or you're providing materials within a group, or you're ah using what's already there, try to think of the most basic version, right? Because in our use of everyday items, we're educating caregivers that they don't need what you have, what you bring in um They can use what they already have in their own homes, regardless of how much or how little they have.
00:32:00
Speaker
um Because our clients, right, caregivers are a diverse set of people and children who may or may not be accustomed to playing with a variety of materials. So I want to address this too, right?
00:32:12
Speaker
um Folks maybe started a speech therapy session or a developmental class already, ah maybe already having spent the morning in like a cardboard box or the kitchen cabinets or, or that caregiver may be completely opposed to their child using their, child their kitchen as a play space. And that's fine, right? That is their right.
00:32:34
Speaker
They're, they're not, um if they're not comfortable, you find another way, another material, another space. Because again, we're building family capacity, family confidence and family competence.
00:32:46
Speaker
Amazing. yeah So would you say if let's say a therapist or is listening to this and they're like, what the question is, what is the your favorite tool that you can find in someone's house?
00:33:00
Speaker
Ooh, the favorite. i That's a fun one. ah I think ah the salad spinner is one of my faves. Wow. I was not expecting that.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah. My kids still, if they see the salad spinner, like again, they are eight and 11 years old. They will take it out. They'll just push it down. Right. That, that topper, it's such a fun, it's a very regulating activity.
00:33:26
Speaker
um the sound of it the pushing of the topper is great. You can put things in, take them out, um tap it. Right. It goes round and round. There's so much vocabulary there.
00:33:39
Speaker
So much opportunity for a musical element. It is a movement activity, right? Fine motor. and Yeah. It's a great one. And of course, there are multiple levels of hats, right? The top is a hat.
00:33:54
Speaker
The bottom is a hat. The netting section is a hat. So, wow, lots of hats. of Okay. So do you, yeah, when in doubt it's a hat. um Do you have any practical shifts you can give to caregivers to help them shift their mindset from entertaining their child to supporting independent play?
Developing Independence through Play
00:34:16
Speaker
Right. I think ah one thing that we want to keep in mind is building attention, that is done through helping children see the creative aspects within what they have in front of them.
00:34:32
Speaker
And so when you are engaging with those everyday objects, whether it's the coffee lid or ah a diaper itself or whatever it is, um you are helping them them see the magic and the wonder ah in all of those things and see the value in those things.
00:34:53
Speaker
And so I think one of the things, I know that one of the things, this is what the research says, is that one way to ah support attention and independence in young children is actually through engagement. So it's a little bit counterintuitive.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah. Right? ah But that is literally ah what we can do. So the more little moments that you can spend in engagement um with your child, the the more actually that fosters their independence and their ability to see playful opportunities everywhere.
00:35:31
Speaker
That is in deep alignment with one thing that I i talk about. i I have a course at Big City Readers that is ah like learn to draw, like drawing to writing. So it's a progression. Like it starts with just drawing and then you're writing words. And some parents will say, okay I put it on and my child is, it's, you know, for four and five and six year olds.
00:35:52
Speaker
They're like, they're watching it, but they're not doing it. What should I do? And I always say, set up two spots, put it on and don't say anything. You just do the class.
00:36:04
Speaker
You sit and you draw with me and and you write with me and you don't need to invite them. They see that there's a spot for them if they want to come over there, but show them that you're doing it. If you're like watching TV and you say, okay, you do this or you know you're doing something, they want to be close to you. They want connection with you.
00:36:20
Speaker
So if you're doing it and not pressuring them, they're probably going to be interested in what you're doing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. ah to Okay. So what would you say, what advice would you give to parents or caregivers who feel pressure to keep up with trends of toys and things, especially with social media and, you know, feeling like I get a lot of messages like, oh, this new reading curriculum came out. Do do I need it? And I'm like, you have taken big city readers classes.
00:36:50
Speaker
Those are the tools you need. that so that That new reading game is... not going to teach your child anything more than you know already. Yeah. Like you, you don't need a tool. You are the one that teaches your child. You, that tool is not magical.
00:37:04
Speaker
So yes yeah. Do you have any advice on people that are trying to keep up? Yeah. I mean, number one, ah don't be afraid to opt out, right? I've gotten much better at that over the years. Why is it so hard? is so hard because we live in a capitalist society that tells us that more, and more, more is always better, that you need to be more and do more and buy more to be the quote unquote best parent or therapist, for instance. Yeah.
00:37:33
Speaker
Yeah. That you can be. And the the the secret in that is that you do, you already have everything you need to support and connect with tiny humans in your life.
00:37:46
Speaker
And that is... That is the gold and it is, it's very hard to remember that, but ah if you need permission, here it is, right? You literally have everything you need. It's probably in your recycling container.
00:38:00
Speaker
It's in every single room in your home and it's everywhere that you go, right? um If you are taking a walk with your tiny human, there is grass, there are spider webs, there are cracks in the concrete.
00:38:15
Speaker
All of that is is the tool of of supporting early language, early early learning in general. Wow.
00:38:26
Speaker
I love it. um i Okay. What would you say to the parent or caregiver who is overwhelmed by
Toy Rotation and Meaningful Interaction
00:38:36
Speaker
clutter? Like where should they start in simplifying their play space?
00:38:40
Speaker
Ooh, yeah. That's a great question. Yeah. I have always been a fan of toy rotation, ah bringing, having just a few things out and available to a young child.
00:38:53
Speaker
You're probably going to get more interaction with those little things than if you have a multitude of options, right? This is this is the ultimate irony, right? Yeah.
00:39:05
Speaker
And of course it it continues as, as my child children get older, you, we always see that that thing that is in the box that's about to go to another family or ah goodwill or whatever it is. Yeah. That thing that they haven't seen a while is suddenly takes on meaning and excitement and wonder. ah And it's because they haven't seen it in a while or they forgot what joy it brought them.
00:39:34
Speaker
But so, yeah, having I mean, even if you have like ah closed bin of stuff or a closet full of stuff, ah bringing just a few things out at a time and see just observing your child and and ah showing them or looking at what what is exciting for them or interesting to them and If you want to do that on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, there's no right way.
00:40:03
Speaker
Again, that's a good reminder. Right way for any of this. So anyone who tells you that number one, they're a parenting expert or ah that this is the one be all end all solution. Right.
00:40:18
Speaker
has something to sell you, right? Yeah. So I think really just reminding folks that they literally already have all of the tools they need. They probably need less than what they have, depending on the family and community that we're talking about. But um yeah, just that permission to to learn with less is is it, right? Yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's a really good reminder. We, you don't, you have what it takes. You don't need these extra things. Yeah. yeah It's hard to remember though.
00:40:57
Speaker
It is. Well, one of, one of the things that I want to offer to your audience is what I call the learn with less infant and toddler development blueprint, which you can find at learnwithless.com slash
Blueprint for Infant and Toddler Development
00:41:10
Speaker
blueprint. Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
And it goes through everything that we sort of covered today around those four pillars of play, talk, sing, and move, and how they connect to early development and how you can support that.
00:41:23
Speaker
ah So that is a ah gift that I would be happy to share with your audience. i' Amazing. We will link that. reminder, right? So keep it to keep it top of mind that you really are.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah. you know I like to remember whenever I'm feeling overwhelmed by anything, not just in this world, that social media, when yeah back to the keeping up thing, you wouldn't have 200 people in your house talking to you and giving you advice.
00:41:51
Speaker
And so like scrolling and like watching videos from 200 people saying, you should do this, you should do this. So I always like to suggest picking like the three to five people that you're like, they really align with me right now. It doesn't have to be forever. You know, i I've said like, you can unfollow me if I'm like...
00:42:12
Speaker
causing you stress because you can't in this season do these things with your child. But pick three to five and and just focus on that and don't look at anything else.
00:42:23
Speaker
Right. decluvering Decluttering that digital landscape is also an important piece. Yes, it is. i i need to work on it it. is a daily practice. Yeah, for sure. I'm there with you.
00:42:34
Speaker
um Okay, so I have two questions for you that I like to ask my guests. um The first is um what are you currently reading? Ooh, what am I currently reading? ah What am I currently reading?
00:42:49
Speaker
i surprised you with this. Yeah, this is a good one. Currently reading. i surprised you with this because as we talked about before we started ah the podcast thing, like I was like, how do you keep up? You've been doing this for almost 10 years. And I forgot that I have segments and I, cause I haven't been, yeah been so irregular. I'm like, oh yeah, it's been a month since I've recorded an episode. I forgot.
00:43:14
Speaker
Yes. I'm reading a ah couple of books, which tends to happen at a time. One is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Beautiful book. I'm listening to it on audio and it's it's her actually reading it.
00:43:28
Speaker
love what it's the author. subtitle is Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teaching of Plants. It's a really beautiful, beautiful book. Oh, amazing. Yeah. um And then the other one is called The Trail Guide to the Torah of Nonviolence by Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, who's a wonderful um Jewish spiritual leader and anti-racist um guide.
00:43:55
Speaker
So yeah, um those are things on my reading list. I'm going to have to link those too. yeah um And OK, this one's kind of tricky. So I'll give you a minute if you need to think about it. but Everyone that listens to podcast seems to be of ah from the same-ish generation.
00:44:13
Speaker
So I started asking, what is one thing that you miss about elementary school? Like we had, like, it's so different now than it used to be And, you know, some people have said book covers.
00:44:26
Speaker
Some people have said, I know, right? Lisa Frank pens has been mentioned. yeah, Oh, Market Days, which seems to be only certain ah population in the U.S. had Market Days. want to know what that is. It's like when you would get it was like a fundraiser for the school like once a month and you could put an order for Market Days. And it was like very...
00:44:50
Speaker
novelty items, but like not good at all, like French toast sticks and these little tiny mini frozen pizzas. And it would raise money for the school, like a percentage of the orders from market days would go to the school.
00:45:01
Speaker
And but only about 60% of people that I've mentioned that to knew what it was. And they're like, Oh, yeah, um ah but the French toast sticks from it were so good. Oh, that's really funny. um Two things come to mind. One, and this is ironic because my eight-year-old is now begging to do this, which we will do, don't worry. ah Lemonade stands.
00:45:23
Speaker
Oh, cute. Number one. So bringing it back. Yes. ah And the other one, and maybe this is more, a little bit more middle school, but mixtapes.
00:45:36
Speaker
Oh, Yes. Oh, my gosh. I actually bought a used car a couple of years ago and there was ah mixed CD in the and I found it like a year later. I was like, this is someone's mixtape.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yes. So much love and intentionality goes into that. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes. I mean, you know, there's always a good playlist, of course, but the actual like sitting down. And again, i i was born in 1981. So cassette tapes were my jam, literally.
00:46:07
Speaker
But yeah, like sitting down, often like recording a song from the radio, literally going like exactly ah like pressing record at exactly the right time. Yeah, amazing.
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. I do remember that just like brought me back. I remember one I had one that was like written on it in pink um marker. And I like I remember like packing it to go to college. Like it was it meant so it was my favorite like thing ever.
00:46:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I still have one from from like summer camp that um like all my friends made together. Yeah. it's but Oh, I love that. Wow. Where'd you go to summer camp? I went to ah Camp Tawanga, which is near Yosemite. um Yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
but Fun place. Love it. yeah um Well, okay. Thank you so much for being on this episode. I can't wait to share it with everybody and link all of your um things that you mentioned. Where can people find you?
00:47:06
Speaker
Yeah. At learnwithless.com. At learnwithless on all the social prep platforms, like I hope. I mean, we we'll see by time this episode comes out. Yeah.
00:47:19
Speaker
I'm also on Blue Sky and all of the things. I forgot about Blue Sky. but as ah Meta implodes. Yes. Yeah, definitely. learnwithless, you can find me almost everywhere.
00:47:30
Speaker
ah Sharing information, ideas, um permission to to put it down and opt out and, uh, yeah, lots of ideas and fun. And I, I i love social media because it literally can be so social. And so if you're, you're on there and you, uh, you hear this and want to connect, please do. I'd love to chat with you in the DMS.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yay. Well, thank you so much. Thank you, Beth. Great. Yay.