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Understanding Your Child’s Behavior: Brain-Based Parenting and Teaching Regulation Strategies with @CourtneyEnglish.OT
471 Plays4 days ago
In this episode of Play On Words, from Big City Readers, Miss Beth chats with pediatric occupational therapist Courtney English about the real reasons behind your child's behavior—from sensory needs to nervous system regulation—and what you can do to support them (and yourself!). They break down common parenting challenges like meltdowns at dinner, unexpected outburst biting and hitting and why your kid might be rolling on the rug or have trouble sitting still in school, while giving practical tips for emotional regulation and learning.
Key topics include:
- What is Sensory Processing? Understanding how your child's brain processes sensory input and how it impacts their behavior.
- When Your Kid Pushes Out of Nowhere: Why it happens and how to respond calmly.
- Minute 16: Should you tell kids to sit still in school? How to recognize when it's a sensory need versus a behavior issue.
- Regulating a Whole Classroom: What to do when your classroom is calm and how this helps everyone learn better.
- Is Deeply Feeling or Highly Sensitive Real? Exploring what it means for a child to be highly sensitive and how to support their emotional needs.
- Helping Your Nervous System Calm Down: How to teach yourself and your child to recognize non-threatening situations and reduce stress responses.
- Why Your Kid Throws Fits at Dinner: What after-school restraint collapse is and how it explains end-of-day meltdowns.
- Proactive Regulation: How to prevent meltdowns before they happen by supporting your child's sensory and emotional needs.
- Heavy Work: Why physical activities like pushing, pulling, or carrying heavy things can help kids (and adults!) regulate their emotions.
- Lizard Brain: Understanding your child’s 'survival mode' reactions and how to help them feel safe and calm.
- What Your Brain Likes: Learning how your child’s brain prefers to process information and how to use that knowledge for better behavior and learning.
- Minute 38: "Fire together, wire together"—how learning to write letters affects brain development and behavior.
- Does Letter Writing Matter? Why teaching your child to form letters properly is key to their regulation and emotional control.
- Foundational Skills Matter: (Minute 47) Why early motor skills are the foundation for better learning, behavior, and emotional regulation.
- Boomer Mom Text: (Minute 50) A fun moment where Miss Beth reads a classic 'boomer mom' text, sparking a conversation about generational differences in parenting.
- How to Stop People-Pleasing as an Adult: Courtney and Miss Beth discuss the roots of people-pleasing behavior in children, how it affects us as adults, and strategies to break the cycle for good.
- Heavy Work Freebie
Join Beth Gaskill and Courtney English for an honest, practical conversation packed with science-backed insights that will help you better understand your child’s behavior, meet their emotional needs, and stop the cycle of people-pleasing—for both you and your kids!
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Transcript
Shifting Focus to Positivity
00:00:04
Speaker
Well, what's wrong? It's like, well, okay, wait, live what what could be wrong? What could I say? yeah so Your brain will look. So I like to say, what's right? What's right? I like that. That's what I do to my own brain. Hey, what went right today? So when you're saying like, you know, stop, you're pretty much telling the child that their core need is not valid and you're not taking into consideration that if core needs aren't met, like it's like saying, oh, you have glasses.
00:00:32
Speaker
and you need your glasses to read, but you can't have your glasses to read because your vision tool isn't needed.
Introduction of Courtney English and Her Role
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast. We are diving in with Courtney English, an OT and a friend of mine. and Courtney, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. so We just had our own little podcast before we started recording, so I'm just continuing on.
00:01:03
Speaker
Exactly. I feel like every person that I have on the podcast is like, I can't remember if I was saying this before we started recording or not. yeah So, you know, okay. So you are an occupational therapist among many things.
What is Occupational Therapy?
00:01:17
Speaker
Can you quickly explain, well, first of all, like introduce yourself and what is an occupational therapist and what do they do in the context of early childhood education and bonus points. I'll give you extra credit if you can add how it connects to literacy.
00:01:33
Speaker
Ooh. Okay. I think I can do the bonus points. Oh, yay. Extra credit today. I'm always been an extra credit girl since. I was just going to ask if you were like, that is cool. I was like, if I didn't get it A plus I was devastated. So I know it was bad. I don't know if that's a bad or a good thing, but anyways, nothing is bad. and Nothing is good. That's right. That's right. I love that. So pediatric occupational therapist. So I'm an OT that works with children and early childhood development, we focus really on helping children obviously with their developmental skills. And we focus on motor skills, five motor skills, visual motor skills, which you do a lot with um because that has to do with reading. And um sensory regulation is a big one. That's kind of like the groundwork of it. It's like the bottom of the pyramid at the foundation of everything and just being able to function throughout the day. So if any of those skills, any of like social, emotional skills, motor skills,
00:02:33
Speaker
sensory regulation, any of those things impact your daily functioning and everyday tasks and routines and your development and learning and academics were the ones that you come to for that. And PT does more specifically with physical, right? Cause PT, OT and speech, we kind of are like ah a triangle, a trifecta of like, um, interdisciplinary teams that work together to help children with their development in the pediatric setting. But, um, OT is really focused on like sensory regulation and the fine motor, motor, social, emotional,
00:03:03
Speaker
But again, it's overlapping. So sorry, it's kind of a drawn out because I could go on and on about it. I love it. But I would say OTs, we are like the masters in sensory regulation, sensory processing, nervous system regulation, all of that. Okay, love it. And how?
Motor Development and Literacy Connection
00:03:20
Speaker
Oh, the bonus point. oh that's our title So you know, what's so interesting is a part of the milestones and they recently took it out the CDC is like crawling a lot of like the motor development.
00:03:31
Speaker
that occurs is directly tied to reading skills like ocular motor skills. So like when you're crawling, you're scanning your environment left and right, and you're developing those ocular motor skills. And even when your hands are on the ground and you're crawling, it's building the arches in your hand for writing. And so everything that OTs work on in development, all of those skills, those foundational like prerequisite skills are tied to reading and writing. It's like in the literature and research, which is so interesting.
00:04:01
Speaker
It's so interesting. I remember and several years ago, I was on the phone with a parent and she was describing like the diagnosis, not diagnosis, but like the learning difficulties that she was, I was kind of helping her navigate what to present when she went to get an assessment. You know, because it is kind of like scary, even like you're like, what do I bring up? What matters? What doesn't? So we were talking about her seven year old before the assessment. And then I was like, wait, did he crawl? And she was like,
00:04:31
Speaker
No. And I like can't explain to you like why or what it was. This was like probably six years ago, but I remember what she was describing about his writing and his reading made me ask that question. And she was like, um you just walked. So it's just remember that one I know it's like one of my biggest, like in most asked questions is when parents, you know, tell me that there's something going on. And I'm like, Oh, like, how was their motor development? Was it slow? Was it a little bit like behind track and Or like, did they skip crawling? And a lot of kids do skip crawling and you see that there's like reflex integration challenges um with reflex integration or just um sensory processing because they didn't get that experience. That's natural and typical for children to go through that progression, you know?
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I, I feel like though, okay, if I'm a parent listening to this podcast and I'm like, I just have a
Understanding Sensory Processing
00:05:24
Speaker
toddler. What is even sensory processing? I feel like that's such a buzzword that we almost throw around and and expect that people know what it means. yes And I don't think that even professionals do like, I think some, yeah, it's so detailed. Yeah. So we break it down. Yes, I will. So sensory processing to put it.
00:05:44
Speaker
in its simplest form is the ability to take in sensations from our environment and also internally what we feel inside of our body. So like the the light that's, I have a like a light on my computer. I'm taking in that light. I'm also taking in through um my vestibular sense in my inner ear where my head is at in space so that my body knows like what muscles to engage to keep me upright. I have to have good body awareness to know where my body is at in space. I'm taking that in internally.
00:06:13
Speaker
i' I'm taking it internally. If I'm hot, if I'm cold, I'm sensing whether I need to take a drink of water or I need to take off my sweater or I need to put on a sweater, all of those things. um I'm taking in the sound and processing, like, what does that sound mean? Someone dropped something in the other room. I'm taking that in and saying, oh, is that something I need to pay attention to or can I just let that go? So it's in three steps. It's you take in the sensory input. This all happens automatically, a lower conscious level of awareness. This is this is your brain working. the automat the autonomic nervous system doing this, all this work on the back end without us having to actively, cognitively, consciously think of it. So we take in the sensory information. It goes up through our nerves to our spinal cord, to our brain where it starts to triage it, right? It's like step two is figuring out what this means. It categorizes the sensation that localizes it. Where is it coming from? And then it tries to determine, oh, do I need to pay attention to this? Is this something that's going to be a threat to me?
00:07:10
Speaker
or is this safe and I can engage? And then the third step is creating a motor response or a response to that, whether I'm gonna pay attention to that, get up and take action, go see what that sound was, or I'm just gonna stay here. So it's very complex and that's the simplest form, but really what it is is our body's ability to take in the world, the sensory world, make sense of it and keep us alive and functioning by the responses that our body decides what to do automatically.
00:07:39
Speaker
So how I love that. Does that make sense? It makes sense to me and i this is i think where i'm I think this is where I shine. I think I'm pretty good at translating things into um metaphors and analogies for people. yeah so I'm wondering where I'm like, yeah, that's so good. I follow that. And I'm like, so do you mean? Okay. One parents might say, okay, why do I need to
Why Parents Should Learn About Sensory Processing
00:08:11
Speaker
do these things with my child? If it's, if it's like automatic, that our body is learning them.
00:08:16
Speaker
For two, people might say, okay, this is where helicopter parents come in because you know the parents that are with their baby and they're doing a lot of rocking stuff and they're like, well, I'm trying to stimulate their vestibular nervous system to make sure that they can learn everything.
00:08:33
Speaker
um Or three, I'm now also thinking about people, I talk about the nervous system when I talk about schools and like behavior charts. And I talk about how that subliminal fear that is happening for your child about their watching their environment to see like, am I going to get in trouble right now? Am I going to have to move my name on a color clip chart? That disrupts their ability to focus on what's happening in the classroom. So true. So I'm thinking like, I think that is what I was trying to think like, how can I connect this for parents? They're like, well, how do I know if my child's nervous system is disrupted? And sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. Yes. So like,
00:09:16
Speaker
breaking it in down into two different parts. There's like sensory regulation, which occurs in the brain and the nervous system. And then there's this general nervous system regulation. Like the example that you just told me made me think more about like nervous system regulations that we have in the autonomic nervous system that does all the automatic things. Right. I like to call it like the lower brain. So I think of it as like a red dot at the bottom of the brain. And then I like to call the lizard brain.
00:09:43
Speaker
Have you heard that? Maybe. I think so. Yeah. I've heard that. I just don't know exactly how they were saying it, but I actually don't know. Maybe. correct Um, but it's, it's, yeah, it's like the lower part of the brain. It's like our primal part of the brain. It controls all things automatic. And then we have the top part of our brain, which I like to call like the green, like a green dot, I think of like a green dot and a red dot, like a red, dot lower at the bottom of the brain. And the green dot is how it's our prefrontal cortex. So.
00:10:09
Speaker
It's how we rationally think about things. It's our logic centers of the brain. It's how we learn. It's how we function. And so if our nervous system or sensory system is dysregulated, whether it's because of a demand being placed on us by a teacher because we have a behavioral chart or maybe there's something sensory that's overwhelming me, right? Neither of those things from two different parts, it can cause the red dot of the brain to shut down access to that higher level logic thinking. And so if we don't know what sensory sensations or stimulation is overwhelming to our child or if they need more of it, if they need less of it. And if we don't know how how their nervous system responds, then we won't be able to help them open the gates for them to be able to access those logical centers, those higher level thinking centers when they really need to, whether it's to self-regulate, whether it's to learn and taking the information and remember it.
00:11:05
Speaker
And so I think that's super important for parents to know and for teachers and educators to know too, is that a lot of kids, we have such high expectations for them, but we might be trying to teach them something when their logic centers of the brain are really not online and
Sensory Regulation's Impact on Learning
00:11:19
Speaker
they're offline. And so it's important to know that sensory regulation controls a lot of those those higher level centers in the brain that need to be active and online when we're at school and when we're learning, when we're learning how to read and write and all of those things.
00:11:34
Speaker
Well, this makes me feel better for, um, how insane I sometimes feel about all of the things that I do to regulate because a lot of the things, okay. Like, for example, people are like, can you go through your morning routine? And I'm like, no, I fear you'll think I'm insane, but I, I've heard it ah you have okay wait and you wake up earlier than me. What time do you wake up? Like sometimes five 30, sometimes six. So sometimes 30 sometimes I thought you said you'd get up at four.
00:12:04
Speaker
No, that's Alina. Gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. Alina, well, okay then. Nevermind then. Yes. so I'm not that early. I'm like the same as you, I think. Oh, okay. Good. So I do a lot of things. One, I like go outside right away because I want... No phone, right? No screen. No phone. Yes. No phone. ah Sunlight on my eyes. If it's not sunny, I turn on a red light while I like journal or read.
00:12:29
Speaker
Yes. And then, um, I sometimes do shaking. I, I've, I've heard about like, just like shake all of your energy through your body for five minutes. This is okay. Thank you. This makes me feel insane. when that my I love the red light cause it helps like with your circadian rhythm, right? It's like shifting you. Cause when we wake up our sympathetic nervous system wakes us up, which is our fight or flight response. Cause it has to, cause we have to wake up, right? And sometimes that shift from.
00:12:54
Speaker
sympathetic to parasympathetic rest and digest to be calm and organized and focused for the day. That can be a tough transition for people and especially for kids who have, you know, immature nervous systems that are developing every day. So. Yes. Interesting. It's so interesting. I try to tell this to my friends. I'm like, I basically treat myself like a child. I like experiment with what would help kids on myself. And I'm like, wow, I'm functioning as a better adult today. But I think that like that movement in the morning, especially for kids that are
00:13:28
Speaker
possibly you've heard sensory seeking, or like, maybe they don't have a diagnosis of needing something. But I can see when kids have big outbursts, um I'm thinking of one of my friends, six, seven year olds, he really, really seeks conflict in with his siblings. And I when I watch it, I'm like,
00:13:50
Speaker
He does not just want to upset. He's like seeking something. And I'm like, i like the response and just like the loud, like, yes, because I know that he's so loving, but he like, loved like all of a sudden he'll just push or hit or say, I hate you. And I'm like, I think he needs to jump on trampoline for 20 minutes immediately when he wakes up. Well, yeah, because he might have a higher threshold for those inputs that he's looking for, right? Like pushing proprioceptive input.
00:14:18
Speaker
I might have, and this is where the thresholds come into with a sensory profile, which pretty much just means that the child has a higher threshold and that has to be met for them to feel calm and focused in their bodies. So maybe that's the only way he's ever known how to feel that satisfying sensation to meet his proprioceptive needs is to do that, right? yeah So that's it's routine for him. So how do we regulate it?
Helping Children Meet Sensory Needs
00:14:44
Speaker
So you offer different types of proprioceptive input based on his interests and what he enjoys doing for him to explore that sensation. And then you can say, you know, like when you push someone, you still get that same feeling that feels good to your body, but it's not safe. You can do, you know, whatever other activity that you've determined is helpful. And the child has really engaged in and enjoyed doing and saying, this is safe for you to do so that now you're like,
00:15:10
Speaker
showing like, I get it, I like you're trying to help them feel seen, right? I get it when you push like your body feels good, because you like that input, you like that pressure that it gets. And you like the big reactions, because you like to hear more sounds, you like more light, you like when things are fast, you like, you know, all these things that they that they like, so that they feel validated. And but then you're showing them how to regulate in a functional and more purposeful, safe way.
00:15:36
Speaker
I love it. I have a friend who, she's an early intervention Liz and she always talks about this and she's like, we don't want to say stop the behavior. We're saying yeah this is what you do different. Like, because if you just, if we look at behaviors too in the classroom, this is so little, I won't go down this rant about teachers needing more training in this stuff, but because we all know it, but It's really unfair to kids and it's unfair to teachers that they have so many different kids with different needs and they don't have the resources. But yeah we say if a kid is rolling around on the carpet, say like basic training would say your job as the teacher is to get through this lesson. So here is the behavior clip chart.
00:16:21
Speaker
And you tell kids, this is how you sit on the rug. You're crisscross applesauce and you are silent. And you are within two inches of 30 other six-year-olds, who some you want to talk to and some you don't want to talk to. And if you don't do this, then you will go publicly, move your name and be ashamed And then you'll get in trouble with both me and the parents. And so one, like things that are happening, our kids nervous system is activated because they're like, well, I don't want to get in trouble. But two, we're putting them in these situations where it's not really helpful to them. Like if we just say, stop doing that.
00:16:58
Speaker
doing went What with what's happening? Can you like say what's happening? And in if we don't do, okay, pushing feels good. You can't push people. Here's what you can do. If we don't do that. And the alternative is you don't push like what's happening in a child's brain and body. So first of all, it's, I like how you said that, you know, it's, it's so controversial because it's, they're trying to take, you know, the easiest, most efficient route, which is not very,
00:17:28
Speaker
it's It's a top down approach. It's not a bottom up approach, right? So I always say like, just to remember that nervous system does drive behavior. All of our behaviors are driven by the state of our nervous system. So if we're in fight or flight, if we're in freeze, shut down, if our sensory system is dysregulated, meaning that we have higher thresholds or lower thresholds and we're either getting too much, like too much sound, I can't tolerate a lot of sound or my body, my proprioceptive,
00:17:54
Speaker
ah system needs more input to my muscles and joints and tendons in my body. So really, to explain it, simply like how are you asking like how you would intervene in that situation? Like I guess I'm asking how would intervene but like also can you tell like why? Why would it be bad to just say stop doing that? Like what is it? is it or yeah what yeah So when you're saying like, you know, stop your, you're pretty much telling the child that their core need that they have like their core need of receiving that input is not valid and you're not taking into consideration that that's like an automatic core need. And if core needs aren't met, like it's kind of like if you're hungry or if you're thirsty, if you're tired, how are you going to be able to be engaged in focus? You can't, it's the same thing. it's It's like saying, oh, you have glasses and you need your glasses to read, but you can't have your glasses to read because
00:18:49
Speaker
you're saying like the sensory tool isn't needed. It's like, oh, your glasses aren't needed. Your vision tool isn't needed. Your sensory tool is not needed. And it is important but because it's invisible and we don't see it and it's hard to objectify it. That's why we often see it being overlooked or just it's easier to tag it as a behavioral problem, right? Because it's ah we see a behavior, but it's a sign from the nervous system that the body needs more to focus. And it's just because we all have different brains, right?
00:19:18
Speaker
And some children need more to focus. Some children get really dysregulated by a lot of different sounds and don't know how to filter it out because their nervous systems are wired differently, which doesn't mean anything bad. Usually kids who have a hard time filtering things out are, you know, they're extremely intelligent because they take in so much information and they have so much more information, but they have a hard time organizing it because there's so much, right? They're taking in like 50% more.
00:19:45
Speaker
then maybe their peer and they seem disorganized, they have it in their brain, but they have a hard time organizing it. And then we see this body dysregulation as a result. So, I mean, i've I actually was just at a school yesterday giving, you know, ah in service for teachers to understand this concept so that they can know like when the whole classroom's dysregulated, how can they shift them into a lower arousal state with keeping the nervous system in mind and being um Kind to the brain Wow, that's amazing that the school brought you in
00:20:21
Speaker
So this, when you said like kids, it is fun.
Traits of Highly Sensitive Children
00:20:25
Speaker
When kids take in more, I feel like I relate to that as a child, but I wasn't, I wasn't like silly. I was just sort of became anxious because I know that I felt like I was like, as an adult, I can say it this, but I couldn't name it as a kid, but I felt like I was like missing a layer of skin. Like I felt people's energy. And now I like know and I know how to regulate, I put in earplugs if it's too noisy. I have to pretend I'm on a call at the store because I pick up people's energies or like sounds. and And it doesn't make me go, whoa, whoa, like if there's like too much sound. But I know that it builds up and then it makes me
00:21:07
Speaker
irritable later or distracted later and I'm like a very regulated adult and I'm like thinking first of all kids ah and like we the adult has to know that that's what's happening first in order to ask them and right like change it for their child brain.
00:21:28
Speaker
There's steps, yeah. Have you ever heard of the term ah a highly sensitive person? is it sound like you were kind of like It sounded similar to that in what you were describing of like kids taking in more. Is that related at all? or Yes, it's highly sensitive kids. you know Their nervous systems, are more so they take in a lot more and can be more either they could be more sensitive or they could just need more. But typically, I feel like highly sensitive um children or individuals just can get overstimulated very easily.
00:21:57
Speaker
So we kind of look into that as like, you know, as a part of their temperament too, right? Like are they easygoing? Are they slow, you know, slow to engage or are they highly highly sensitive too? So there's, you know, so many different approaches that have kind of categorized it, but yeah, I would say you're right. but that be sensitive It's, you know, I think, well, I think like Dr. Becky, like rebranded highly sensitive person as deeply feeling kid. Yes.
00:22:25
Speaker
And I like that too. I think he can say, you know, whatever makes the person feel like it resonates with them, I think. Yeah, great which I think it it is it was a good rebrand, but I remember once talking to someone and I can spot a highly sensitive child 20 states away. Yeah. But I think there's not a lot of like information around it. And I remember talking to someone about it and they're like, well, that's not a real thing. And then I was like, no, it is. It's a personality trait known as sensory processing sensitivity or SPS. And
00:23:00
Speaker
I think like 20% of people have it and it's like an increased emotional sensitivity. You have like stronger reactions to internal and external stimuli like pain or like light or hunger or noise. Like being hot or like I'm like, I'm, you know, getting sweaty and getting really frustrated when your heart rate increases because maybe you're anxious about something and that like heartbeat makes you feel like something's wrong.
00:23:25
Speaker
that's yes That's because I was an M, I think, I believe, like kind of like a highly sensitive person because I overly respond to those internal sensations of like, when I'm really hungry, or when I'm, you know, nervous and anxious, and my heart starts beating a little bit faster, because I'm shifting this empathetic mode, I really sense that in it. And it takes a lot for you to realize that that's not a threat. And to tell your nervous system like that's not a threat, I'm going to do things to activate my parasympathetic nervous system, my calming system to calm me down because I know I i have like that. I can turn on my logic centers and be aware of that. But kids, I mean, they're little. How do they do that? We really have to be there to co-regulate with them for those things. I know. So I guess the first step is helping parents understand that because I think that a lot of people think like there's just either like anxiety or like behavioral problems. and No, yeah.
00:24:17
Speaker
yeah And I learned, like as an adult, as a self-diagnosed, highly sensitive person, i I don't have anxiety, actually. I just yeah feel the world. yeah And it's i'm I'm not like, where anxiety is like, oh no, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if? And it's like, it's not that. It just, it feels because...
00:24:34
Speaker
yeah like you wouldnt You would probably say like in our conversations, I'm more like, nope, it's fine. Nope, this is what we're doing. like yeah Don't worry about that. this is how and i'm like so I just realized it at like age 34 that I don't have anxiety. I just take in a lot of information and I have a lot of information and I know that I need a lot of alone time to regulate that information.
00:24:56
Speaker
So if we have kids like us like that we're working with, how do we we're like two functioning adults that get up at 5am that are like, this is how I regulate my nervous system and I know that I need to work alone. and what you know yeah So how do we put that into say a family who has four kids and they're six-year-old and this podcast is the first they're ever hearing like, oh, maybe That's why my six-year-old throws food at dinner after just being perfectly happy and having a perfect day, and then it's like, what happened? we're having and the you know The dad goes, we're having such a good day. Why did you have to ruin everything? And then like like let's let's talk about that. Yes. So um one of the things that I talk about in my courses and my guides is proactive regulation, because you could all benefit from proactive regulation.
Incorporating Regulating Activities
00:25:43
Speaker
which pretty much means that you build in regulating activities to your routines. So, um, especially if you have a lot of people in your family, it's easier just to build something into your routine than to be like, okay, we're going to like do a timeout. We're going to do like a sensory react activity, which sometimes you can do that if you're home and you have like unstructured playtime or whatever, and you can add those things in, but usually families are very busy and on the go. So.
00:26:08
Speaker
Proactive regulation is when you insert regulating activities to your routines. There are three systems of the of the sensory system that are main regulators that can have a high influence on helping the nervous system and sensory system be more balanced. And that is proprioceptive input, which is also known as heavy work. So anything- Oh, I love heavy work. Yes, yes. So anything active that a child is pushing, pulling, and carrying,
00:26:37
Speaker
Um, and it really helps when it's functional and there's an end goal and it's purposeful because if you're just like, just push this around, and it's not, it doesn't really engage that higher level of the brain and we're trying to connect, right? We're trying to connect that logic center to that.
00:26:53
Speaker
you know, lower part of the brain, or you said maybe it's called the lizard part of the brain. Now I have to look this up after to see. I actually did just i did just look it up if you want to know what it is. I do, yes. This is from Psychology Today. It says, the part of the brain that is ah very primal, many people call the lizard brain because the limbic system is about all a lizard has for brain function. It's in charge of fight, flight, feeding, fear, freezing up,
00:27:22
Speaker
and fornication. um That's all autonomic. So yes, it is the lizard part of the brain. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Okay. So now we know. Yes. Now we know the lizard part of the brain. So is heavy work. Why now I'm, I'm sorry, this is actually, you're just becoming a ah therapist to me, but why sometimes I have so much to do. And when I, especially when I had my storefront, I would feel, I guess I would feel overwhelmed with how much I had to do. You know, I was running the company. I had 12 teachers teaching my method. I had enrollment to do. I had sales. I had
00:27:55
Speaker
all this But I loved to be in the back and put together a bookshelf and that was like the dumbest thing for me to do as the CEO of the company But it just feels so good to be like I finished a task Because everything else was like ongoing, but I could start and complete the bookshelf. Yes, and that's a lot less um Brain energy I like to call it is like, you know the fuel for your brain that keeps all the other parts of the brain functioning like executive functioning all those higher level you took doing the bookshelf and it's repetitive, right? Our brain likes things that are repetitive, rhythmic, predictable. We like things that we've already already done and we know how to do because it's easier to execute. So you actually took time for your brain to be in a safe state to do a repetitive activity that engaged your proprioceptive system through heavy work to start and complete a task that you know that you could be successful in. You knew there wasn't going to be anything where you'd really have to problem solve around it.
00:28:53
Speaker
um And so yes, that is why it can be really like almost like a mindfulness activity in itself, right? Because you are just focusing on doing that one task and you're taking away all of the other, moldts like the multitasking um where you have to do a lot of problem solving and shifting your brain a lot. That didn't take a lot of that brain energy out of you. but That's so interesting. Okay. So we can give kids heavy work. Yes. And you can build it into your routines by having them be the helper and participate in like, you know,
00:29:24
Speaker
whatever it may be, like maybe with Daniella, sometimes she would come over to me and I'm like trying to switch out the laundry and she's like, mommy. And you know, she wants me to play with her. And I'm like, Oh, like I'll just have her pull out the laundry into the laundry basket and put it into the dryer. And we did it together. And I'm giving her that sense of proprioception in her body while she's engaging with me, we're getting the connection. Um, we're building connection and we're doing a functional task together.
00:29:49
Speaker
And again, she's stimulating that sense. So that's a way that you could build in regulation into the day, but often we're moving so fast and we're like, let me just do this and get it done. But we really need to like lean into those, you know, those moments. Another thing I had her do would like, I give her the tower in the kitchen and I'm like, Oh, you can like, why don't you sort out the silverware that can be, you know, you're lifting and you're sorting and it's easy, right? You're matching at her age. I knew that that's something that she could do.
00:30:15
Speaker
That's another really great example. I actually have a whole 10 page heavy work handout. Um, that's free. So ifwhile let's link it in the yeah, let's link it. Yeah. Just, and it goes by age two. So like, you know, one, two, three, four, and then it's like six and above or something like that. Yeah. you have So 34, I think you're doing good. Yoga yoga is like a mix of like vestibular and proprioceptive because your head position is changing, you know,
00:30:43
Speaker
Um, he might be downward. Yeah. So it's, it's good to mix sensations too. Sometimes yoga though feels maybe this is just my body telling me what I need, but like, I do like yoga, but sometimes I'm like, I need to move more. I need to be faster. I need to be like throwing the big balls down at the gym. I need to be like dead 200. Like I, is that just maybe because you have a higher threshold for that proprioceptive input and movement, the stimulus input.
00:31:11
Speaker
Does that, it's hard for you to slow your body down because you seek that, you know, I really seek that. Oh my gosh. I really see that. And is that, you know what, it is good to do that though, to be able to be in that present moment. Cause it really helps with, you know, your nervous system being comfortable with being in a parasympathetic state where you're not. Cause when you're in fight or flight or sympathetic, you might be in sympathetic when you're exercising because your heart rates increased, your blood pressures increase, all those things are increased.
00:31:40
Speaker
because it has to, the nervous system has to shift into sympathetic so that you can exercise, which is healthy. It's healthy stress, right? Yeah. So, um, but sometimes, so and this used to be me too, before I had my daughter is I always one of those really high intense workouts. And I was like, I'm not doing anything if I'm not doing it, but now I'm trying to find peace and, and even just like walking, would you do walking too? So you are doing it. It just, it's probably harder for you to stay still.
00:32:04
Speaker
during the yoga because you have a lot of things on your mind. And so your brain's moving fast. It's not matching with your body. So it's probably not regulating to you. Yeah, I do walk though. You know what? I walk like an hour in the morning. So maybe that's, yeah, that's your, that's your thing, but also find the right activity. And I do like yoga, like after I do a workout, but I do, does it have anything to do with, you know, like when some kids like go from being like,
00:32:29
Speaker
like just talking and they're like, Oh, they like kind of like like, grind their teeth and squeeze their hands. Is that like, yeah, sort of part of it? Like when they're like, I need more right now. Yeah, maybe because sometimes what happens is children, I feel like internalize a lot of their sensory and needs and dysregulation um because they know that there's a demand in the environment that they have to meet. That's why we see this like post-school, what is it? Collapse syndrome. Yes. This post-school meltdown is because all day we're around people that aren't as familiar and safe to us, right? They're safe. They're our teachers and they're our friends, but like at home, it's like
Managing Sensory Overload in School
00:33:05
Speaker
our ultimate safe place. So at school,
00:33:07
Speaker
I have to kind of keep it together. And so I'm kind of internalizing this dysregulation so that when I get home, I kind of kind of lose it because yeah I didn't have a chance to, I like call it emptying my regulation bucket to keep it balanced because it's been, things have been going into it all day. I had a new demand. I had a fight with my friend. I didn't get to eat all my lunch. All these things are filling up the bucket. You get home and the bucket spills over because you didn't have time to to empty out your bucket at school.
00:33:35
Speaker
Maybe you got in the car and all you, maybe you just needed to take your shoes off and, you know, have no music or whatever that is, you know, ah sensory strategies don't always have to be giving kids things that could be removing things. Right. Like if we're overwhelmed at the end of the day, you might feel this sometimes I'm like, I can feel my necklace. Like it's choking me all of a sudden, yeah all of a sudden I noticed that my necklace is really tight on me. And it's because now my sensory system can't tolerate that touch.
00:33:59
Speaker
anymore because I'm overwhelmed and overstimulated and maybe I didn't take a break or do anything to regulate my nervous system throughout the day. It's kind of like the same thing. Maybe you just get in the car and you're taking away, like take off your shoes, we're we're not going to have any sound, or maybe you just want your favorite song that you always listen to and it's predictable and it's calming to you. you know So it's really just fine tuning the schedule and the routines to to help children feel kind of safe and for their brains to not feel like they have any more demands at that point.
00:34:28
Speaker
Okay, so that's funny. When you just started getting in the car, my brother-in-laws say that this is a, my last name is Gaskill and they're like, this is a gas girl. They call us the gas girls. Um, this is a gas girl trait that like, as soon as we leave an event, we get in the car and we like do, so and like, and we, we all three do it. Like we kind of like, it's like our like bodies like regulate and like, we kind of like, it's like a chill and it's like a,
00:34:56
Speaker
and like you kind of like have to like squeeze the person and you're like there's no words it's not even like if it was good or if it was bad it's just like so is that it was like really hard yeah that's that definitely is related i would say well that's embarrassing my money we know i love that why are we all like that because i think that a lot of people will relate to that and i've had moments too where i've been like you know you get done doing something and you're like oh you know you just like shake or you just like or you like go eat like a really crunchy snack, or you like suck down a coke diet coke or something, you know, like, you're trying to do whatever you do, but it's intense, she snack thing I've never thought of. But like, sometimes when I stay up really late, like working, like last night, I had, we were working late. And it was like,
00:35:44
Speaker
230 in the morning, and I needed to have peanut butter pretzels before I went to bed. Like I was not hungry, but I needed to. Yes, it's the crunch. Because if you think about it, again, proprioceptive input to your mouth is chewing. So chewing and crunching on a crunchy snack or you know, like sucking down a smoothie through a straw that's thick, that really takes a lot of contraction of your, you know, the muscles in your mouth and And you're getting that oral input that is purpose of the input to your mouth. And there's a lot of emotions tied into that too, right? Because we call it emotional eating and I call it sensory eating because it is kind of sensory eating too. Like you can't forget about the sensory system because they, they're actually tied right to each other.
00:36:29
Speaker
Um, as a part of the limbic system, here's a little science fact, because you know, like I'm very like science. I was like, um, is that the first relay center for sensory processing is the thalamus is a part of like the limbic system. So it's like, as soon as you process the sensory input, it, it run, you know, it runs through and there are signals activated in the limbic system to kind of like tie, how do I feel about this? Like, is this is something that my sensory system didn't like. So I might feel it kind of angry or sad when I'm feeling this, you know, so.
00:36:57
Speaker
We're making all these associations and our emotion center and our Olympic center while we're processing sensory input. And that's why sometimes when people have like traumatizing events, we have these big emotions and we're we're confused. We're like, how can we walk past this thing? And this child gets this visual cue and they automatically have this nervous system response of like your heart starts racing. And it's like, oh, because they have like, you know, either trauma or they had like a, they made a brain association.
00:37:25
Speaker
about it. And now that's like imprinted in their nervous system. We always say like, what wires, um, together fires together. yeah So if something's wired, you know, have you heard of that before? Oh yeah. I say it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just interesting to say that I kind of got off on a tangent. No, I love this whole, this podcast, I'm actually changing the name of the ah whole podcast from play on words. It's just a tangent. Um, hot takes only. Um,
00:37:52
Speaker
Fire together and wire together. This is actually what I wanted to ask you next. It's connected to this. So I often talk about in writing that kids' hands are not ready to write every letter yet. like So if we hand a three-year-old ah a pencil or a crayon and we like to have them start writing letters, I have this graphic that I often share about like strokes, pre-writing strokes. And usually they can't write all of the strokes, like certain like diagonal lines. And people don't understand this. They're like,
00:38:20
Speaker
Well, why could they write a vertical line and not diagonal? It's like, that's a different set of muscles. Yeah. And visual motor skills too, right? Like yeah scanning and and crossing midline, all of those things. Oh, all crossing midline. diagonal Yeah. This stuff is like what we do with babies and like those little like songs and stuff. You know, it's like, that's what we're getting them ready for. It's not like it's just silly and cute, but no, I ah usually continue that.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yes. I usually will say the neurons that fire together, wire together about writing because I want to remind parents and teachers that if they push something that their child isn't ready for, what they're doing is like we're introducing writing and we're introducing that this is hard. Our hands aren't ready. Our brain's not ready. And so we're wiring, like writing is hard together. Yes. Yes. I can't do this. I'm And maybe they don't have the skills yet to do it. And so they and then they make that association of I can't do this. yeah So now we have this emotion tied to it. And now we have this fear of failure ah tied to it. yeah And that causes dysregulation and that shifts us into sympathetic and that causes us, yes you know, challenges access accessing that logical part of our brain. Okay. The whole gamut. yeah is that Is that the phrase?
00:39:35
Speaker
Oh, hey, it's me interrupting myself to tell you if you're liking what you're listening to, then you're probably going to love my big city readers on demand courses. If you've ever wondered why is that word spelled with a G and not a J? Well, it's not just random. There's a reason for that. And you'll learn that in my spelling rules for second graders course. If you've ever wondered what letters to teach in what order to your preschooler. Yeah, I teach you that in my preschool course too.
00:40:00
Speaker
If you've ever wondered what your kindergartners should be able to write or draw or if your toddler scribbles matter and how to guide them to the next step. Yep. You guessed it. All of my on demand courses teach you exactly how to do this. I am sort of obsessed with talking about the learning to read and write journey because I feel like there's so much misinformation about it. So I've dedicated my life to making sure that there's more clear cut fun information.
00:40:27
Speaker
And you can help your child and yourself by getting one of these courses. They are jam-packed into 15-minute on-demand lessons. And you're going to feel all confident. Your child's going to feel confident. And be warned, this is no exaggeration. At least 20 parents have told me that at parent-teacher conferences, their teacher has said, oh, are you a reading specialist with the kind of questions they ask? So you're going to learn a lot. Your child's going to learn a lot. You're both going to feel confident. I promise you.
00:40:57
Speaker
Um, this is really all I think about ever. Oh, I sound kind of boring when I say it like that. But anyway, check out the big city readers on demand courses. Let me know if you need any help deciding what the right course for your child is. And also like, let me know how the lessons are going if you're already doing them. Okay, back to the episode.
00:41:14
Speaker
I was like, she but she finished it for me because I was trying to find the word. No, I never, oh, my friend always is like, you say the wrong term. And I was like, well, that's why you're my fact checker. ah You didn't say we'd be fact checking. So ah I've been using that line a lot. That's a good laugh.
00:41:37
Speaker
so so i um Okay, so I have a friend who was talking to me about her seven year old and she really is having a lot of emotional outbursts and they started going to therapy.
00:41:54
Speaker
And she said, but she was describing things and then she was also, i I did like, we did a reading lesson together. And I said, okay, so I noticed that she's writing her letters from the bottom and not the top. And um I know, and I was saying to my friend, I was like, I know it seems like that doesn't really matter if she's getting the job done.
00:42:14
Speaker
but it's really connected to a lot of things that kids are doing. So if there we see this, we see them write their name and whatever we see the name, they did it. So a lot of people think, great, they did it. And then they're like, Oh my gosh, this reading teacher is picking a part that they need to write their letters from the top. But I was explaining to my friend that I was like,
00:42:37
Speaker
There's these moments throughout the day, right? So if your child is writing their letters from the bottom, we don't see it, but in those split seconds, they are processing, thinking about how do I write this letter? They're, they're, okay, what am I going to do here? Then they also have to think about how to spell the word. They also have to think about then their creative process gets interrupted. They can't remember the sentence they wanted to write. They add to that frustration. And she was like, well, actually, our therapist just said that the emotional outbursts we're seeing are connected to her writing, and now we're going to see an OT.
00:43:06
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, buts okay. So yeah do you, and it is, it's does that make sense to you or like, yeah how can you explain that for us? Well, I think that also, you know, OTZ work on executive functioning skills. And I think that we know executive functioning skills are tied to sensory processing because in order for us to be able to, again, access that higher level thinking, our nervous system and our sensory system has to be regulated.
00:43:35
Speaker
And so maybe um by front loading regulation to her and having her understand how her brain is thinking and how what's happening within her body physically when she's experiencing these like big emotions because she's becoming frustrated that she'll be able to regulate better because first again, we've talked about, very we started talking about the steps and I think we got, oh, I forgot it again. It's no, it's okay. No, it's okay. I forgot to until we started talking about this. But the first step is like knowing your triggers and noticing dysregulation patterns. And so if I'm noticing that I'm always becoming extremely emotional and frustrated during this task, maybe there is an executive functioning challenge that the child has.
00:44:17
Speaker
Or maybe it's a regulation thing where it's like, I have a hard time tuning out things and focusing because the skill is hard. So maybe we need to like build the skill underneath it. Maybe we need to add in some regulation and maybe there's a strategy that we can use to help us with executive functioning. And that like, maybe there's a sequence that you do it um because there's so many things happening at once. And OGs are really notorious for breaking down things into tasks. We do like task analysis and we break tasks down into tiny like steps that you probably wouldn't even think of.
00:44:45
Speaker
that happen, whether it's in your brain or motor wise. And then we, we help modify or, or support that skill so that the whole task can be done. So I think that it's super important. And I think, that i mean I feel like OT should be in like a pediatrician office. I feel like OTs need to be in more places than we are because it's such a unique thing to break those things on and to really get down to the root of what's causing you know, either a challenge or frustration or dysregulation or whatever. But yes, I do think that that's wonderful for her to say no to just because she probably needs some sensory regulation, maybe some support and executive functioning, and then emotional regulation and knowing how. um This is what I work with with kids too, is like knowing how my body feels physically when I'm experiencing emotions, when I know how I can maybe, if I'm feeling really hot and sweaty,
00:45:39
Speaker
Maybe I just need to take a break, take a sip of water, and take a breath because those things help cool my body down. When I'm physically feeling something, we always feel something physical before we actually think about how we feel about it, right? Before we get to cognitively assess or understand what that means to us emotionally, we're usually feeling something physically first. But we're we're not really as aware of that, you know? Yeah. Wow. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah, everything you say makes sense.
00:46:08
Speaker
You were so funny.
00:46:12
Speaker
by you
00:46:16
Speaker
and see
00:46:19
Speaker
Okay, so I don't even know where to go from here. I have some segments that I've been adding to the podcast because I want to have some regulation on it. I could go to that, but were there any loose ends that we didn't finish talking about? Oh, um, other so I think you're right about like, you know, the prewriting skills, like having the prewriting strokes, because in order for children to form letters, they need to form lines. They need to form shapes so that they know how to form letters. Cause those are way more complex and just how like the visual system develops in visual motor and how everything ties in, right? Crossing the line, all of those things. We have to be able to have, again, the prerequisite skill. And i I hear you talk about this in a lot of your posts about like, we're kind of missing those foundational skills.
00:47:06
Speaker
And we're expecting the child to have this advanced skill when I don't have the prerequisite skill. So I think that's important. Oh, we talked about like hand positioning for writing and I have two tips if you want to hear that. So, um, sometimes kids or whoever, like, whether it's like a first grader or if it's younger, they'll, you know, either hold their pencil, like, or marker like this, or might yes, this, or they'll like kind of do like a pronate where they're like, um, like this.
00:47:35
Speaker
And so, and sometimes they'll do four fingers, which is fine if it's functional, but if they're not able to manipulate it, right. We want to separate the hand because the hand is actually made to be separated. If you like put your finger and you squoze your finger and you let go of your ring and small finger, you would notice you have like no grip strength because these two fingers are meant for stabilizing and these are meant for moving. These are like your bi-motor. So we want to separate the hand. So what you can do is just tuck something into your stabilizers and then place the,
00:48:04
Speaker
pen there so that it's easier. Like you're, you have some kind of feedback in your hand. I have a video about this. I'm going to link. Okay. Yes. And then also you probably know this too, but writing on a vertical surface is good because of, I used to be a hand therapist before I did pediatrics. And so because I'm just going to get a little science for fun, because our, the muscles that make us make a fist and extend our fingers cross our wrist. When we move, when we position our wrist, we can ah It creates tension on our tendons so that it puts us into a functional position. So like when we bring our wrist back, it automatically brings us look at into this position too. So for writing vertically, we're already putting us ah at a mechanical advantage for like better handwriting. And I would always tell parents like just try vertical surface and you might see better motor control. And then the child may be able to obtain the skill because you're putting them in a and mechanical advantage for them to to start, you know, creating those connections in the brain for how to do those motor patterns when writing. Courtney, that is interesting. I used to do this with um a little girl that I tutored and she like hated writing and so I would tape the piece of paper to the window and have her write there because I was like, yes she doesn't have the hand strength. I know that it's in her hand strength. She was like in second grade and I was like, she didn't want the tiny things like play with blocks.
00:49:24
Speaker
But, um, but I also used to teach a live toddler class and it was like very like sensory, you know, it was like a different theme every week. And I would flip the table over and put Saran wrap all around the legs and let them paint like upward. Um, yeah so it wasn't like sitting at the table. so Important. Yes. That makes me because if you think about it. like Sometimes if the table's like either too high or too low, like your wrist isn't extended. It has to be somewhat extended. Otherwise, you're like yes they're trying to use the wrong muscles for motor planning. So that doesn't make any sense, right? It doesn't. Okay, I have a question for you. i once i my mom My mom once sent me this meme on Facebook.
00:50:03
Speaker
or She like saw it on Facebook, such like a boomer mom sentence, right? She sent this to like my whole family group text, which by the way, like do you have 50 family group texts where it's like, why why is somebody starting a new one? like why this is like yeah This is one that didn't have John in it because we were planning his birthday, and this is one with the husbands in it, and it's like, please, send me an email.
00:50:25
Speaker
Yes. Well, because you don't want to send the wrong texts to the wrong group. Oh, well, you know what? I have a huge family and I like my parents didn't like they didn't invite me to family vacation because they sent it in the wrong group. Oh my gosh.
00:50:40
Speaker
but You know, like that's the risky run with having like kids like yeah like I don't I'm pretty easygoing because I this is why I probably don't take a lot of things personally because I'm like, I think my family wanted me there. I'm like pretty sure that wasn't on purpose where I have like a lot of friends who are like, are you mad at me? And like, no, I will tell you if I am mad at you, don't ask. Yes. Wait, I love that. Because that's me. And when you posted that today on your story about like, if you're putting that energy out, like,
00:51:07
Speaker
what do you expect, right? And I'm like, Oh yeah, like don't like make people think they're mad at you. They're not. Well, because it's sort of even like talking to kids too. If you say like, what's wrong, your kid is going to go, well well, what is wrong? Like, and we're not, I'm not saying that, that's yeah but like people always say like, Oh, what's wrong? And, and then your brain, your brain wants to answer the question. So it's like, well, okay. Or even like, I once saw this, I led, uh, I took to camp, I did this,
00:51:34
Speaker
I used to do a lot of camp stuff, but I am took these adults with special needs to camp as an adult. And um I remember this, you know, in like high school in college, there's always like a come to Jesus night where like everyone's like crying and I don't know, it wasn't particularly religious, but there's always like something and like some moment like that emotional. And I remember the girls, that the women that I was leading, like were like 22 and they were like crying too. And I was like,
00:52:05
Speaker
what what Jen I was like Jen what is it and she was like my grandma died when I was a baby and it was like she saw other people crying and she was looking for them what could I cry about we're like a neurotypical teens and early 20s people were like having like other connections but like so I think about that and how like if we say like well what's wrong it's like well okay wait like what what could be wrong what could I say yeah so your brain will look So I like to say what's right. What's right? That's right. I like that. That's what I do to my own friends. Hey, what went right today? Again, you need to write a book about all this because it's very valuable. I'm serious. Thank you. Okay, maybe I will. I remember the one thing I was talking to my husband about, I was like, just like Beth said, force meets force is resistance.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yes. Right? is that Am I saying that right? Yeah. Forces. Oh, we're talking with resistance. Resistance, yes. And so I was like, oh, yeah. Just like that. And he was like, what? And I was like, oh, like you weren't there. You wouldn't get it. But it was like me like processing. And I was just like, yeah. um She's got a lot of good you know theories and whatnot. I have a very complicated brain. But it's so valuable. Thank you.
00:53:27
Speaker
It's like a curse. analytically, your perspective is so different. And it's like things that we should know, but we don't know. And the way that it's explained, it's like, Oh, light bulb. Like, yes, that is it. And it's, it's very helpful. Oh, thank you. Wow. Yes. You just told me that every day and I'll start, maybe I'll start writing. but ah let's have Yeah.
00:53:50
Speaker
Let's have a meeting every morning. 15 minutes is the part of your routine routine. Okay. But what I was going to say though, is my mom sent this thing and oh yes coming back to OT and then I'll rapid fire our last questions. But my mom sent this thing that I guess like 1% of the population, again, this is something she saw on Facebook, but 1% of the population can do. Oh, okay. So you hold three fingers up and you know how like you would hold number three, but like, then can you put your pinky over your thumb to hold up three? Oh, you can't do it.
00:54:18
Speaker
But but like what is that and the population can hold all I can't either can hold all three fingers up with their pinky over the thumb. Oh, these. Yeah, but you're being to be like curled over. Oh, oh, I know why. Why? Because some people. Yes. So this is my hand therapy. So this tendon is called FTP flexor digitorum profundus. This one that flexes this.
00:54:48
Speaker
And it's, it's a second joint in each finger is called FDS. It's superficialis. Some people don't have it in the pinky, right? Look, I can't see how I can isolate this. Yeah. Um, and these ones and the top doesn't bend, but I can't do it here because I probably don't have an FDS tendon and that's kind of normal sometimes. we it's like i and like this Like that tendon.
00:55:11
Speaker
No, it's the second one. So the second one in this finger, some people just have an FDP and they don't have an FDS. Isn't that interesting? That's your anatomy. You figured it out. Okay. Cause like, okay. So then in the comments, this video went viral. I mean, like there's like millions of views and hundreds of thousands of comments. If any if any hand therapists, CHT sought to be like, Oh, it's because they don't have an FDS.
00:55:32
Speaker
Well, so i I posted it and I'm like, then my family could do it. Like one of my brother-in-laws could do it. And then like everybody was like, I can do it. And I'm like, you guys are lying because I've never met anybody that can do this in real life. So yeah. Like now you have to start asking people if they can do it. Yeah. I'm like, I have to look it up now. Like fifth finger FDS and like going back into it.
00:55:54
Speaker
You know what, you should stitch the video, um ah my video on Instagram and explain that because it's like viral. So people would probably love, you know, you know, people love to like pile on a viral video. Oh, yeah, it says that there's anomalies and there's interconnection. So some of these ah FDS tendons may be interconnected with the fourth finger. So the fifth finger may not get that transfer of force.
00:56:16
Speaker
Isn't that interesting? It's very interesting. Everything you say is very interesting. okay so science sorry No, I love it. Never say sorry for science. Oh my gosh, should I make a short that says that? Yes, please do. I have to write that down before I forget. Yeah, write it down. but Never say sorry for science.
00:56:39
Speaker
Seriously, um, better trademark that segments. segments Okay. One, what are you reading right now? What am I reading right now? Yeah. Like you're reading anything for fun. Oh, no, just journal articles. Oh, Courtney, this is something that I used to do too. And now it's really good for your brain to, to get lost in a story. So I now make myself read fiction. You should start by just listening on Audible.
00:57:06
Speaker
Maybe, yeah, like in my car. Maybe for like 10 minutes a day. It'll be really good for you. I know, but then I might do it all day and I have to, you know, research. I'm a researcher. 10 minutes, same. And i actually, will you just start sending me what you're reading every day? Yeah, yes, I will. Well, that segment sucked. yeah yeah
00:57:30
Speaker
It's just honest. Okay, so as Millennials wait your millennial, right? Mm-hmm We grew up during a time when learning to read Often looked different from like what we're talking about today. Yeah, have you Notice this come to fruition in your life or in your child's life Have you have you started to see that and I explained this basically with the um do you watch new girl?
00:57:57
Speaker
and watch it before. Yeah. Okay. So Nick Miller has this like famous line where he says, I don't think I know how to read. I just memorized a bunch of words. And that's basically like the premise of what, of everything that I talk about. And so I asked people that when they're like, what do you do? I'm like, do you watch New Girl? What Nick Miller said is accurate for a lot of the way that we learned that millennials learned how to read. It's hopefully different than what's going to start to be like the norm. Anyway, do you have any thought on that? I think you're so like, that is so true because
00:58:29
Speaker
I even, I was talking to my husband about this when we were on a walk the other day a couple of days ago or maybe last week, but it's like the reading comprehension section of all of my, um, all of my testing was always so poor because it was like, and I, I never, the way that I read was different or the way that I, you know what I'm saying? Like I would read it and then I wouldn't remember it. I would remember chunks. Like it was like phrases and it wasn't really like, I wasn't really making meaning of it because it was a chunk in the chunk meant something different to me.
00:58:59
Speaker
That always makes me think, am I a Gestalt cognitive processor? Because i that's why I like science they like to memorize the chunks and memorize those things. you know Because then it makes me wonder, oh, does that mean that my brain is wired differently and I read differently because of how my brain's wired? Or is it because of how I was taught? Because there's that too. But I do think that reading, I haven't enjoyed it like other people do, and maybe because like I have a hard time like keeping up with the story, maybe because it's the way that I learned how to read or maybe it's because of my interest in the book. I don't know. But with my daughter, I noticed she will memorize like the book, like she won't even be looking at it and she'll like look at me and just repeat like the line in the book because she memorizes it or like she'll look at the book and see a picture and like she'll like, it's like I don't know that she's not reading the word, but I know that she knows the picture of it or she like, you know,
00:59:55
Speaker
yeah So it's like she's starting to group. Um, photos with words, but is she able to like break it down? And I think that that's hard. That's more like analytical. Yeah. But also she's still little, right? Is she four? She is. She's three. chabo yeah that's That's fine. but From, from the reading perspective, I say that that's, that's fine. yeah but Okay. Interesting. And then, um, last thought, last question. What is something surprising that you keep in your car?
01:00:27
Speaker
surprising that I keep I didn't tell you any of the questions I was gonna ask you didn't I like to surprise everybody. Okay, well, thank you. This is fun because it's really making me think so. I mean, my car, I don't really have anything surprising. But what I always bring with me and keep one in my car and one in my bag and one everywhere is one of these things. Because like I have to have one of these to focus when I'm talking. Because Again, like your brain likes that repetitive, predictable input to to your hands of that.
01:01:02
Speaker
your brain can access the higher level thinking and or be organized and how you speak and be able to recall things. And so this is one of the things that I always keep with me. Um, now my husband and daughter want to steal them. So I just keep ordering more. Can you send us the link because I'm like, will I be smarter if I am holding one of those? Like, I mean, you already sound very smart, but it might help your brain feel more organized. Like this whole time I had this pattern, I'd pull it and make a little thing.
01:01:30
Speaker
around my finger and then I crush it. That's my sequence. Like this. I like it. Does it ever get exhausting to think so much? Do you ever like wish that you were just like, can I be a chill person and not analyze everything? I do. I do. And I think it bothers my husband sometimes too. He's like, it didn't have to be that complex. I'm like, but this is why she did this. My daughter is because of these factors and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, Oh, wow. Okay.
01:01:57
Speaker
I know. yeah It is kind of exhausting. Maybe that's what where the reading just for fun would be good for me. That's what it might help. It might help, right? um try I try really hard. Sometimes I'm really trying in my personal life to not be like, if a friend says, oh, this makes me sound like such a weirdo.
01:02:15
Speaker
Oh, in therapy I was talking about this and I go, yes, we've talked about that before. Remember, you do this because of this and it's because of this wound that is in your attachment style. And and yeah and actually a good exercise would be to do this. I'm like, why can't I just be like, cool, let's get margaritas. Yeah. Wait, I wonder if it's just like maybe like the neurodivergency. Yeah.
01:02:37
Speaker
Like for me, I think that too, because it's like, Oh, well I have to go through all the analytics. Oh my God. Yes. You're right. Because I do. Yeah. We need the confirmation. We need to clarify. Yes. And kids do too. Everyone feels secure with clear.
01:02:55
Speaker
Well, I was going to say boundaries. Expectations. Expectations. Expectations and directions and communication. Yes. i I heard someone say the other day, don't say, did you hear me to a kid? Say, tell me what you heard. Ooh, another one. You need to have just like a ah like a list of like, don't say what's wrong, say what's good or what's right. And then what's the one you just said?
01:03:19
Speaker
um
01:03:22
Speaker
What did I just say? Well, my team used to, my teachers used to just record me talking because they would go, hold on, hold on. you I know that no one's going to remember what you just said. And I'm like, oh, thank you. And then they would like, luckily recorded luck it's recorded. What did I just say? Oh, I don't even know. Oh, instead of saying, um, yeah what did I just say? Say, tell me what you heard. What you heard. Yes.
01:03:45
Speaker
I love that. okay okay i'm goingnna start all about It's all about change. I feel like it's like rewiring and changing the way that we communicate with each other, right? And like how we understand instead of making it, it's almost like always negative instead of being like, well, what did you hear? Instead of being like, did you understand me? It's like, Oh, well I heard this. Maybe I missed 50% of what you said, but I still heard 50%. Can you fill in the rest so that I understand it? This is so true and actually like so relevant to parenting and kids because I think that we think, like parents say, you need to behave when you're here. What the heck does behave mean? Have you ever outlined what behave means? And what if my idea, me, a four year old,
01:04:26
Speaker
is different than your idea of behavior. You're just giving me this vague word and telling me to know what it means. and It's like your expectations of behavior are different than my group's expectations of behavior are different than my gym teacher's expectation. What do you mean, and behave? And now I'm just going to go to school with this big question mark of they told me to behave and I actually don't even know what that means. and No. i Again, increasing that anxiety, right? but The anxiety. like Yes. And being like,
01:04:53
Speaker
Okay, I don't know, are the demands the same? Are they different? Now I have to remember what the demands are in each one instead of just knowing what works for me and how to advocate for myself. that i Teaching kids to you advocate for themselves, huge. I would say that's a big thing to remember for parents. like You don't can't protect your kids from everything, but you can teach them how to regulate and advocate.
01:05:12
Speaker
Oh, regulate and navigate. Oh, I gotta write that one down too. I know. um But um actually I saw the behave one in action because my nephew, my sister was talking with him about like, okay, I want you to behave when we're here, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, and and if I'm bad, though the bees will get me from the behave.
01:05:36
Speaker
Oh, beehive. Beehive. And I love that. Maybe this is my neurodivergence because I'm always analyzing like why they're saying the things that they do. like And I was like, oh, he thought you meant beehive and he didn't know what the word was. So cute. I know. And i have another another example of this is I had a friend and I hadn't seen her daughter in like a year and she was like,
01:05:58
Speaker
Sarah, do you remember Miss Beth? And she was like, no. And then, like, you know, like later, I was like, no, no. I was like, I was like, Sarah, do you remember my name? And she goes, no shower. And everybody laughed. And I was like, I go to my friend, I go, do you have any other friends named Beth? And she's like, no. And I go, she doesn't know that word, Beth. She thought you said bath or she thought I said bath. And she can. And she stored it as shower. Isn't that funny? Yeah, that is funny.
01:06:25
Speaker
So like, so interesting. It's like, we're so busy making assumptions of things that we're like, what did you hear? Is that you know, like that whole concept yeah it blows my mind. and And with the whole behavior thing too is like, now it's like, okay, I have to behave, but maybe I behave by looking to my like,
01:06:46
Speaker
you know authoritative figure to see if like I'm making them happy so now are we just only looking to people please or are we only looking to like get you know recognition from or like you know acceptance from an older person and now I don't even know how to behave without that on my own or you know behave or how to like regulate or how to function because I'm just used to checking in with other people and to make sure that they're happy. oh a hundred Actually, I think that's me. but just well i used to be I just figured it out. you just that's funny know People in my life are surprised when I say I used to be like that, that know me like now. they're like I could never imagine you like that.
01:07:21
Speaker
Really? No, never. Well, that's good. I mean, I guess that's like a good reminder that we can change because I really, I used to be like anxious, seeming like worried, people pleasing. And now I'm like to my haters.
01:07:40
Speaker
But back to the behavior thing in the classroom is I think also like a good reminder, this episode is so long, but is a good reminder that like, no, I'm like, I will come on every day. I will never say sorry for science.
01:07:55
Speaker
um but But in the classroom, I think It's so easy to go, if we look at like that bath shower analogy, like let's say that was like an eight year old and you just were the teacher and you, the child had never heard another child's name before. And this child that says, is your name shower? And then everybody laughs. And then that kid who said shower also like laughs. And then the teacher say it says, well, that's not very nice. That's not their name. Instead of like having the understanding to go like, oh, they were trying to remember their name and now
01:08:28
Speaker
they are like, okay, wait, should I lean in? Cause all my peers are laughing. Should I laugh with them? Am I, am I being made fun of on my own? Should I yeah actually also like, I'm getting this feedback from people should, should I be silly? Like, and we're just like, stop doing that. And it's like, we, there's so much going on in a child's brain that we aren't like we're, we're looking at the wrong way, I think. No, we are. I feel like we're taking it from like an old school, like parenting teaching approach. That's really not, it doesn't consider how the brain works and develops at all, I don't think, you know? Cause we know so much more now than we used to, obviously, but you know, it's just like, it's like, how can we support children raising kids to kind of understand how their brain works and the advocate be like, Oh no, I didn't mean that. Or I heard it wrong, you know? And, or us just instead of just um expecting or assuming, like really looking again, right at the root cause or like the root meaning or purpose behind, you know,
01:09:28
Speaker
all the things that they do, like their behaviors or how they react and seeing um what's actually going on. But it takes a lot more time. We move too fast. Sometimes we can't slow down to figure it out. I feel like right in the classroom. Oh, I agree. I think like in teaching and parenting and anything, like the first place to look is at yourself. And like once for me, especially when I am really analyzing myself, then I can understand what kids are going through or why why things are going the way that they are in the classroom. And it's like, yeah it starts with regulating yourself and knowing like, what triggers
Understanding Others and Relational Connections
01:10:06
Speaker
you? Okay, so what could possibly trigger someone else? Or what could, yes what could have happened in this situation? So it's that relational connection of like, Oh, I understand. So I can, I can know what works for me and maybe we could try this thing and then modify it because you're different. But yes,
Starting a School: Motivation and Energy
01:10:21
Speaker
100%. Should we start a school or?
01:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, can we actually possibly I feel like I might have. possibly possibly see i'm I am fast. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, we actually think I actually weirdly I think that I can do anything that I decide what I want to do. And but I need that energy. and Well, I don't always know what I want to do. And that holds me back.
01:10:45
Speaker
hu
Living Honestly and Taking Risks
01:10:46
Speaker
you know but But do I want to build a school? So I do feel like I have all the right people around. And I feel like I've asked like 10 people on my podcast if they want to start a school with me. And I'm like, well, maybe I have the team.
01:10:58
Speaker
And recently I started being like, okay, if I had one year left to live, what would I do? And the biggest thing is I would be more honest and I would take more risks. And like, anyway, I don't know where that thing can put the risk. Yeah. I love that. But I don't even know how I would answer that. What would I do? I don't even know. I would stop worrying. Yeah. And I would stop taking things so seriously. And now start acting like that. Yeah.
01:11:28
Speaker
Okay. Because this is the truth. And then I was talking to somebody and they were like, well, but we don't really have one year left. Well, you don't actually don't have that. Like you really have no idea of that. So like, okay, true. What's the big deal? Like, okay, so so you do something, you you share something on the internet and people make fun of you. Cool. Moving on. Like, yeah, you try to launch a product and it flops. Cool. Moving on. Like, yes.
01:11:52
Speaker
Do
Motivational Energy and Podcast Dynamics
01:11:53
Speaker
it big. Yes. I don't know why I just started going into like a motivational speaker role. I know. I feel very motivated now. Great. Yes, I love it. Oh my gosh. Ready to go. We'll start. I know. Let's go.
01:12:08
Speaker
um This was amazing. Will you come back on sometime soon? Yes, I would love to. We have a lot more to talk about. We have so much more to talk about. I've always been like, I would love to have a co-host and then like actually all of my friends that come on the podcast are like, I'll come on anytime. So I'm like, I'll just rotate my co-host. Yeah,
Guest's Social Media Plans and Motivation
01:12:25
Speaker
let's do it. Okay, great. Well, you are the best. Tell people where they can find you and I'll plug it in the show notes too. Oh yes. So um on Instagram at CourtneyEnglish.OT. Okay.
01:12:38
Speaker
That's my main, my main place of main hang out mine yes, my main hang out. Yeah. And you'll start sharing. I was going to like, put, like, put you into a hole of like something ah you're going to do 30 days of sharing yes ah how to stop people pleasing as an adult.
01:12:56
Speaker
Yes, I should do that in my stories, actually. Let's think of something that we can both do because I want to do that. I'm unmotivated on on Instagram. So maybe if I have like, I'm going to share in something for 30 days, then yeah. Okay, we'll brainstorm. Yes, we'll brainstorm. Well, you're the best. we getting back to You are too. ah Thanks for having me. This was fun.