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EPISODE 119: MAGIC IS TERRIFYING!
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EPISODE 119: MAGIC IS TERRIFYING!
ABRACADABRA! POOF! A new episode appears… all about the terrifying aspects of MAGIC! Listen in!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
WIZARD OF GORE and MAGIC should leave you mystified!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
QUEER EYE FOR THE HORROR GUY
How can these films be made just a bit… gayer? Listen in to find out!
–
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Transcript
Introduction and Show Details
00:00:00
Speaker
Frage the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frage13.com.
Meet Maddie the Magician
00:00:09
Speaker
Are you ready for mystery? Yes! Are you ready for magic? Yes!
00:00:15
Speaker
Then welcome to Maddie, the middle-aged magician's mysterious and macabre marvels. Yeah! Now I place into this hat a rabbit. Yes, folks, a beautiful white rabbit. Now you, sir. You right there. Step right up. Is there indeed a rabbit in this hat? Yes. Now reach in, sir. That's it. Reach in. Reach in to pull out the first of three marvels.
00:00:44
Speaker
It's it's it's depression Now reach in again more is to be found. Oh, oh it's it's yes, sir.
Magic and Fear: Episode 119
00:00:56
Speaker
It's an unforeseen home repair Now one more middle-aged Marvel awaits you oh, oh it's it's Yes, it's your inability to have a restful night due to back pain
00:01:14
Speaker
Wow, what magic indeed. It's episode 119. Magic is terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom. I'm Marjorie Greene and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Say goodbye, we honor thee from life to death.
00:01:40
Speaker
in real life. Doubters, the Doomsters, the Gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies. Where are you going to go? Where are you going to run? Where are you going to hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now! Let's go!
The Art of Magic: History and Modern Views
00:02:06
Speaker
What are you waiting for, huh?
00:02:11
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning.
00:02:20
Speaker
Well, George, I still don't know how they pull a rabbit out of a hat. But in this case, David Copperville makes 13 people disappear on stage and reappear at the back of the room. Well, because a man was injured after he disappeared, we now know exactly how this trick works. And here's a hint, George. It's not magic. Welcome to another episode of Frygate, a 13th horror podcast. My name is Maddie.
00:02:42
Speaker
And I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time with us at Friday, the 13th Horror Podcast, this is the podcast that talks about horror, horror in real life and in the movies from an LGBTQIA plus perspective. This is our 119th episode, Andrew. Can you believe that? Isn't that crazy? 119. I know.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's wild. I just wish other people appreciated as much as we did. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. But yeah, this is a great little episode. We are talking all about how magic is terrifying. So magicians and the history of magic, different types of magic, and two movies that definitely
00:03:23
Speaker
We would not have watched if not for this podcast. The nail on the head like that magic from what year is this at 1978 was not right yet 1978 and then Wizard of Gore from 1970 Wizard of Gore is.
00:03:39
Speaker
Uh, you know, if, uh, how, how the Oscars missed it, I don't know, but thank God Friday, the 13th is here to give it the accolades at it. Listen, can I just, can I give a peek behind the curtain just for a second? So originally we really wanted to do Lord of illusions, but because HBO max holds the rights to Lords of illusion, Maddie can't get it in Europe. So exactly.
00:04:03
Speaker
I want to say to streamers like Max and streamers like Netflix and all these places. So fucking dumb. Hey, hey, guys, if you just made them available to rent, we could still rent them and give you money. So I would rent it. Like I would rent it. I rent everything. I don't fucking care anymore. It's three ninety nine. Like, well, that's what I mean. Like, why do these streamers hold these exclusive rights? And I don't let you just outright just rent it
00:04:31
Speaker
I mean, it's it makes absolutely no sense. You know, we should do an episode about the industry somehow. We'll figure that it will be a very frustrating episode. We'll be very angry. But Andrew, for this episode, a good episode plan. We've got some good content planned for these fine folks that are listening right now. And Andrew, I want to start off with this, actually, before we go to the certified terrifying corner. So I went and had my annual physical done. Do you do this every year?
00:04:58
Speaker
Not every year, but like every other year. Okay. Andrew, you're getting old brother. It's time for you to do it every year now. Okay. Now listen, I wouldn't have had mine done and I'm like mostly good. Like there's some things that we're going to have to work on and I have to go back for a follow up next week. Right.
00:05:12
Speaker
But I went in and my blood pressure, he took it and he was like, whoa, that's not great. And I was like, God, is it dangerous? He's like, no, it's not dangerous, but we should have a look at this. And so he was like, you can get a monitor at home or the gold standard is getting the 24 hour monitor done. And we have it here, you book in for it, you do it. And I was like, okay.
00:05:36
Speaker
and it was terrifying because my blood pressure, it just freaks me out. It's freaked me out since I was a kid. It makes me absolutely bonkers, crazy thinking about it. So have you ever had this done before? Well, I suffer from what the doctors anecdotally call white coat syndrome to where even when I'm in a physician's office, my blood pressure will spike. So I have had to,
00:06:02
Speaker
have the the cuff to where they like leave the room and they like to leave you in there for like 10 minutes. Sure. I have had that. So the extreme version of this is you go and you get a cuff that's fit onto you for a full 24 hours. And so I went to the doctor had it done was done done last week.
00:06:23
Speaker
And I'm wearing this fucking thing on my arm, right? And it literally takes your blood pressure every 30 minutes for an entire day. So think about how many times. Don't like that. It's like 70 times it takes your blood pressure. And so Andrew, when I tell you it drives you insane, it drives you fucking insane.
00:06:44
Speaker
And so like, and it's got like a tube running up my arm and down my back to this device. It's on my belt. And like, you're supposed to have like kind of like a normal day, but like try having a normal day with this thing on. You know what I mean? Seriously. So like I'm at home with it. I was working from home that day. And so I did have a very normal working from home day. Like I worked at my desk. I made dinner. I made lunch. I, you know, like went to go get my mail, like that kind of, I didn't do anything super strenuous, but you know, like it was a normal ish day.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so I'm wearing this thing. You have to wear it when you go to sleep. It wakes you up over. I woke up like eight times that night. And so like I'm freaking out that the whole time I'm thinking my blood pressure from this thing has got to be fucking sky high because I am so fucking anxious and I'm so tension. Oh, yeah. I'm so fucking worried about this. I'm like, fuck, I'm just like, oh, that the whole day I was just like, oh, this fucking sucks. I was just so angry
Current Events: Conflicts and Hypnotism
00:07:34
Speaker
about having it in the first place. Right.
00:07:36
Speaker
So I go in, I go in yesterday, actually, and I take it in and I get in an office. I'm like, the girl, the girl is so nice. And I'm like, Jackie, get this fucking thing off me. I want this fucking thing. Get it off me. She's like, whoa, okay, fine. So she takes it off. She plugs in and she's like, okay, let's see what we got here. That thing prints off and it's amazing. It prints off all of the readings. It has a little graph thing. And it took like seconds to do this, right? She's like, your blood pressure is normal.
00:08:03
Speaker
Can you fucking believe that? And I, you probably have the same thing that I do. Like when you're, it's like high syndrome. Yeah. When you're in like high stress, where you're worried about it, your pressure automatically goes up. Oh yeah. So I mean, like, and I, I was so worried that they were going to say, you're going to the ER, you're going to be on medication for the rest of your life, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I had already talked to my brother cause he, he takes, he takes BP pills and I was talking to this person and that person. I was just like already planning an entirely new life.
00:08:31
Speaker
And I don't have high blood pressure. And I'm very, very happy about this. And now I'm like, wow, I just need to work on the stress, I guess. Isn't that the magic of it all? Yeah, you know what? Yeah. Right. But I'll tell you what, though, folks, it's a good call. Like if you are somebody who was actually afraid of that like I was, too, because when I tell you I was deathly afraid of having that measurement ever taken, I really mean that.
00:08:57
Speaker
go talk to your doctor about it because it will probably make you feel better like it did for me, truly. So I'm just putting that out there. Get your physical done. It's worth it. Andrew, in our certified terrifying corner today, the way we start off every episode, besides stories about my medical mishaps,
00:09:17
Speaker
Um, we have just one thing today and it's this, um, and what's been described as a communications mishap, Israel and the Israeli defense forces killed. Uh, well, they, they struck three different cars of aid workers from world central kitchen, um, which is a nonprofit global organization from chef Jose Andres. Um, chef, chef Andres is an amazing chef. He's an amazing person. He does a lot of great work around the world. And in addition to being an amazing, incredible chef.
00:09:47
Speaker
And this organization began in Haiti. Remember when the earthquakes happened? It was absolutely terrible in Haiti. So it began there. And it was just like him going in and making food for people. That's literally all that this was. And then he saw that there was an opportunity there to go into other places like that.
00:10:08
Speaker
where people needed to eat good food that also tastes good, as good as it can taste in that situation. But people deserve the dignity of good food. And so he's been in Ukraine, he's been in this place, he's been in that place, and now, of course, he's in Gaza.
00:10:26
Speaker
And Israel, their missiles hit three of their cars, and they're calling it a communications mishap. They didn't know what they were doing, something like that, whatever. They killed, I forget how many people, but like six or seven of these amazing people that work for this organization.
00:10:42
Speaker
And you know, like, look, I believe in Israel's right to defend itself in this war between Israel and Hamas, not between Israel and Palestine, between Israel and Hamas. But Israel needs to get a fucking clue. This is ridiculous. And it's not just this. There have been so many civilians killed. The collateral damage is so far beyond like the ratio of what it should have ever been in the first place.
00:11:12
Speaker
And Netanyahu is a monster. He's a monster, and he's making Israel the pariah of the world. That man needs to go. I desperately hope that Israel will hold an election soon, get rid of that buffoon, and start to finally bring this to a close, because it's not doing anyone any good anymore, and it's just ridiculous.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if it's... Unfortunately, I think the damage is done. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's gonna take a lot of whatever, a lot of big swings to really make this any sort of quote-unquote right because
00:11:54
Speaker
It's so wrong at this point that I I don't know. It's it's unfortunately it's gone. I can tell you from like American sentiment from what I from and this is only from what I see. So, you know, take that for what it is. But it's gone from tragedy to comedy now where everyone's just like, well, it's just another day in the Middle East. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's unfortunate and I don't want it to be that way, but that's
00:12:21
Speaker
Unfortunately, the way Americans, and probably a lot of Europeans too, the way that we deal with tragedy is to just kind of back pocket it. We deal with it upfront, and then eventually we back pocket it and move on to the next thing when that thing is still going on. And I think the other side effect of this is that all Netanyahu's actions have done, and the way that he's executed this war, all that's done is make anti-Semitism even worse.
00:12:48
Speaker
And I'm not saying that he's the reason for anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is bigotry. It's because of the person doing it. It is their fault. But none of this is helping it. Like, none of this is helping it. And it's just, it's a shame.
00:13:04
Speaker
You know i don't know it's it's a it's a really fucked up thing you know for so many reasons i know you know personally for me i feel pretty extricated from a lot of the people that i think i used to feel politically aligned to be honest and it's been a it's been weird and weird for everybody and it's been tragic for for too many people.
00:13:23
Speaker
And, you know, I still find myself aligned very, very closely to Bernie Sanders, who believes that Israel has a right to defend itself, but also believes that Netanyahu is a fucking idiot and needs to get out of there and that the war needs to stop because it's doing nobody any good anymore.
00:13:40
Speaker
And it's just going to get worse. There was a story about how Israel hit an Iranian office in Syria killing some generals. And now they're waiting for Iran to strike Israel. And it's like, my God, how is that going to make things blow up? It's just, fuck, it's insane. God.
00:14:01
Speaker
Welcome back to 20 years ago, everybody. I know, seriously. God almighty. So anyways, that's it for the certified terrifying corner. We'll leave it there and on to the show, where once again, we are talking about magic and how it is terrifying. Now, Andrew, there is a magician named Roger Lapine. He's got a website out there that you can go Google. Some good information about magic. And one thing that he had on there that I thought was interesting were the eight types of magic. Would you like to hear them?
00:14:31
Speaker
Yes, I would love to. So Roger says that the eight types of magic are levitation, making something float or appear to fly without aid. The next one, my personal favorite, penetration, pushing an object through another object. I'm very used to this one. Prediction. This is predicting a future event or a thought.
00:14:53
Speaker
Restoration, restoring an item that was previously damaged. Transformation, changing one item into another. Transposition, moving one object from one place to another. Appearance, making an object appear. And vanishing, making an object disappear.
00:15:16
Speaker
And like, you know, I read that it's it's a simple list, but I read through it and I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. That's basically every kind of magic I've ever seen before, you know. Yeah, I I am aligned with seven out of the eight. I think that which one I think seven out of the eight are entertainment and fun and like, like, let's have fun with that.
00:15:39
Speaker
Unfortunately, I think prediction is just a big old grift. And do you think so? Yeah, there's no I don't think there's such a thing. I'm just I mean, you get about what about. OK, magicians aside, what about what about psychics, though?
00:15:53
Speaker
I don't think it's real. I don't. I mean, we've had, we've had a psychic on the, on the, on the podcast before. Um, you know, we've had interactions with people with psychic abilities. I think even you and me have a little bit of like psychic ability, but we do.
00:16:10
Speaker
I don't think that that is something magical. I think that that is just a brain function that some people have just a little bit more tapped into their brain. I think it's something natural, truly. That's what I know. I don't think it's magic and I don't think that you can...
00:16:30
Speaker
I feel really bad for people that rely on prediction and those kind of things to live their life because that's really sad.
00:16:45
Speaker
And it gives you no, um, it gives you like no guarantee on your own life. Like you don't control it. Like you're, you're asking someone else to control it. Totally. And like, I think in like context of, of like, you know, modern day magic or, or even I don't even, I don't even mean modern day. I mean magic in general. And we're talking about like magic that magicians do. Yeah. Like magic. I think when it comes to me, we'll do another magic is terrifying.
00:17:10
Speaker
Different kind of magic. When it comes to predictions in that context, I think it's more like the magician themselves places either the individual or the group, whoever's attending the show. I put that in quotes. They put them in such a context where
00:17:29
Speaker
everything that he would that he or she would ask them would be predictable. You know what I mean? So it's like the magician will ask, you know, a certain question or they'll ask him to think about a certain thing. And the answer could only be, you know, one of three things. So, you know, sort of business that that's that's what I think he means here, basically. Yeah.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, I get it. I just I just wanted to call out kind of like the grifting culture of magicians because they're all grifters. Yeah, everyone. I mean, that's that's I think that's literally it is like it's all sleight of hand. It's all illusion. But what I'm saying is like when it's used for entertainment purposes and people like want to go see a show. Oh, sure. I think that that's great. I think that like you you you honed in on a skill and you did it and you're now using it for entertainment purposes. When people are starting to use it for like
00:18:20
Speaker
health and wellness. Listen, if people believe that a magician giving them a prediction is a real thing, you're dumb. If you want to go to a psychic, I think that's something very different, but like a magician, no, honey, David Copperfield didn't give me anything to live by.
00:18:38
Speaker
I will say when I was thinking about this topic, I thought back to when we were kids. When I say kids, I would say, I don't know, early 90s. The 90s. The 90s. Magicians were much cooler back then. We were in a renaissance of
00:18:58
Speaker
Like David Copperfield, David Blaine, you know, even to a certain extent, Siegfried and Roy, like David Blaine was really fun. When David Blaine hit the scene with like he was on whatever channel. I can't remember what channels he was on, but like Street Magic. Yeah, those those like like magic specials, they were fucking amazing. Like we were we would all sit in our living rooms and our jaws were like fucking on the floor.
00:19:23
Speaker
watching this dude do insane things. It was incredible. Yeah. So I guess like my question is, is like, why is it not cool anymore? Because like we see like in a lot of movies and the only one that I can think of off the top of my head is Pitch Perfect, where they make fun of like up up close magic. Like that one character is always trying to do up close magic and it's like made fun of. And like in a lot of movies where this is like a nerdy thing now. And I just don't know when it when it like when it like course corrected.
00:19:52
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's a good question, a good observation. You know, I don't know. I don't know. One thought that I have right off the bat is, like, cringe culture, you know what I mean? And, like, I don't mean, like, the things that are cringe have their own culture. I mean, how it's so popular now to call literally anything that's earnest cringe.
00:20:16
Speaker
Which I think like you know for you and me when we were growing up and you know for I would say the good lot of our friends Like we didn't do that. You know what I mean? Like we don't we weren't like everything like literally for young people now Everything you have to be you have to be perfect
00:20:34
Speaker
And literally, if you are earnest or if you're honest about anything at all, or if you put your heart into something and you want to succeed, that's cringe now. Everything is cringe. And so I sort of wonder if that has something to do with it almost, if that makes sense. No, it makes sense.
00:20:55
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know when it stopped being cool to have like something that you're good at and things and things that you work at. No, it's the truth. I mean, like I'll be honest, like even like with work, the way that I have to get people to be like, you need to have a goal like.
00:21:15
Speaker
have a goal that you wanna succeed at. This is a good thing for you. I think even that is cringe culture now. And it's like, my dudes, how do you ever expect to get ahead? And how do you ever expect to get ahead in magic unless you real about a boo? You know what I mean? Like, come on.
Magic's Ancient Roots: Dedi and the Egyptian Court
00:21:32
Speaker
All right, it looks like you have some historic magic. I do. So Andrew, I was wondering today, when I was looking for what I would talk about on the show, I was like, well, wait a minute.
00:21:43
Speaker
Who was like the first magician? Like who actually like started doing this? And it turns out that we know who the first magician was. The first magician was Daddy. Daddy, the magician. And so I've got a little article that I'll read here. It's not too long. It's from magic tricks for kids at dot org, which is which listen, there's there's a lot of different articles about their body, right? You know, that there's you could go here, you go there.
00:22:08
Speaker
Not all of them were very good, but I can tell you magictricksforkids.org. They had the Pulitzer Prize in an article. Listen, I know that you have that website bookmarked and you can visit it. Andrew, I can't start my day unless I'm going to magictricksforkids.org. It's where I have to start my day every day. And listen to the good people at magictricksforkids.org that will honestly probably hear about this because that's how the internet works. Your website's actually really cool and thank you for this. We appreciate it.
00:22:38
Speaker
So there is a good deal about the history of magic on there, which I actually thought was really cool, especially for kids who are in the magic. And they have an article called The Magic of Dedi the Magician. So here it is. The history of magic would not be complete without at least a brief mention of the ancient Egyptian magician called Dedi.
00:22:59
Speaker
Dedi allegedly performed before the pharaoh Khufu, known today as Chiaps, the builder of the Great Pyramid at Giza. In 1823, English-born Henry Westcar discovered an ancient papyrus under circumstances that are rather unclear. After Westcar died, German Egyptologist Carl Lepsius obtained the papyrus from Westcar's niece. It was determined that the Westcar papyrus was written in
00:23:28
Speaker
Herak? Herak? I can't remember how to say that. Anyways, a classical Middle-style Egyptian script commonly used by early scholars and later religious writers and written in iron gall ink with a reed brush onto papyrus. The title of the papyrus reads, The Tale of King Cheops' Court, from the German translation De Marken des Papyrus Weskar. It has been established that the Weskar papyrus dates from the 18th to the 16th century BC.
00:23:58
Speaker
during the fourth Egyptian dynasty. The papyrus is said to contain 12 stories or fables, but was in very poor condition when last seen. Fragmented and frayed, it was extremely delicate and fragile. Be that as it may, it gave some valuable insight into the lifestyle during the fourth Egyptian dynasty.
00:24:20
Speaker
The Egyptian pharaoh had heard rumors of a sorcerer named Dedi of Died-Sneffern who could make prophecies and perform other wonders. It was alleged that Dedi was 110 years old and that he could eat 500 loaves of bread and a shoulder of beef
00:24:38
Speaker
drink 100 jars of beer each day, and resurrect decapitated creatures. Frankly, that's not... Talk about high blood pressure. Right. It sounds like my college career. It was also said that a lion was trained to follow Dedi with its leash trailing on the ground. Once, when Dedi was presented before the king, Khufu suggested that a jailed prisoner be brought forward and executed by having his head severed, and then Dedi would reattach it.
00:25:06
Speaker
However, Dettie convinced the pharaoh that this would not be necessary, as it was never allowed to do something like that on the noble flock. Instead, he used goose. When Dettie decapitated the goose, placing the head at the eastern end of the audience hall, and the body at the western end,
00:25:26
Speaker
When Dettie uttered a secret spell, the head of the goose stood up and started to move, as did the body. The goose ended up cackling and waddling out of the hall. Dettie performed the same upon a waterfowl, possibly a pelican, and then he had a bull calf beheaded for him to restore intact. Apparently, even in those days, magicians never did the same trick twice in exactly the same way, a cardinal principle in conjuring.
00:25:54
Speaker
Throughout Egyptian history have come many tales of magicians of the Nile, and many stories refer to magic tricks that have a similarity to what Dedi performed. It is well known that temple priests use various magical effects to bewilder and hold power and influence over the pharaoh subjects. They made use of the basic principles of physics, mechanics, and pneumatics to appear as magic.
00:26:20
Speaker
Typical was the use of sound chambers to make graven images speak and fire or water to appear from the mouths of idols. The priests and the deceptionists who were the first charlatans became the forerunners of later fraudulent occultists. Dettie's legend lived on and a potent legend it became
00:26:38
Speaker
handed down by word of mouth. It was not till a thousand years later, after his royal command performance for Khufu, that the story of Dedi's powers was put into words and written down for Egyptologists and historians to consider. It was an anonymous scribe who penned the tale well over four and a half thousand years ago, which makes Dedi's cut and restored goose illusion something well over five thousand years old.
00:27:03
Speaker
It is said to be the first written account of a conjurer's trick, according to many experts. The Papyrus was edited and translated completely by 1890 by German Egyptologist Adolf Ehrmann. How was Dettie's trick done? Or more importantly, was it ever done? Often, when someone relates an account of something he has seen, particularly a magic trick, when he forgets the details, he exaggerates or he invents. And so the story is often taken out of proportion and relaying it.
00:27:32
Speaker
Is the story of Dettie's miracle performance before Chiapp's figment of the imagination? Many magicians believe that it's a fairly true account of what really happened so long ago, and may indeed have been underwritten rather than exaggerated. Today's magicians can easily make you believe that they have cut off a bird's head and restored it again.
00:27:52
Speaker
They can show you illusions in which an assistant's limb or head is severed and magically replaced. The decapitation of a bird is rarely seen these days due to ascetic reasons. Nevertheless, we give credit to the scribe who recounted the story of the magician Dettie's performance at the royal court.
00:28:10
Speaker
One theory is that the beheading of the bull calf may have been possibly accomplished with some sort of guillotine Similar to the apparatus magicians use today. So there's a little history of the first magician Andrew Denny cool What a guy we knew he wants to reattach heads good friend You know and like look they'd make a good point here like maybe he was doing stuff that magicians do today anyway and like back in the day and
00:28:37
Speaker
like that's what the Egyptian magicians had to do or they wouldn't have had power in the court. Yeah. Yeah. Things, you know, go poof basically. So like it kind of makes sense. Now, you know, did the goose fucking dance across the hall with its head cut off? I cackling out.
00:28:52
Speaker
I sincerely doubt that, but Dettie must have done something that day because like all myths, there's some kernel of truth to it. So it is pretty cool to think about, like back 5,000 years, there was a magician fucking thinking right now, like, huh, how am I going to make this fucking king super fucking impressed? It's just wild to think about.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah, no. And reading the end of your little article here where they talk about Penn and Teller, you should hit on that part. Sure, sure, sure. So recently on the Penn and Teller show, Foulas in an updated version, English magician Allie Cook performed a dual decapitation of a duck and a chicken.
00:29:33
Speaker
When restored, the chicken's head was on the duck and the duck's head was on the chicken. It was quite a stunning magic trick, similar to that which Daddy surely must have impressed those at Chiazza's court and which has been unfortunately and which has been fortunately written down in the history of magic. Is that real? Thank you, Daddy. You know, I haven't watched that show, but apparently it is. Listen, Andrew, this is magic tricks for kids dot org. Yeah, I know.
00:29:59
Speaker
This is a very serious news outlet. You understand? No. When I was researching this, I also was reminded of a very famous YouTube clip that was going around right around like 2011, 2012 of a Serbian magician who accidentally killed his wife during a during
00:30:19
Speaker
I'm sorry, that's so funny. It was like, you know, like sawing a woman in half like that. And he like accidentally like it went wrong and he accidentally decapitated his wife. Andrew, just as a Croatian, that is funny to hear that a Serbian did that. Well, and it's never in this. And like I said, like this circulated in like the, you know, think of the Internet 15 years
Hypnotism: Risks and Applications
00:30:40
Speaker
ago. Yeah, of course. And it circulated in places like E-bombs world, which I remember that. Yeah, sure. So like it's never been substantiated if it's real or not.
00:30:49
Speaker
And from what I was looking at, I guarantee you a Croatian started that story. It's very about another thing that was brought to mind when we were thinking about this is do you remember the specials that happened in the late nineties called breaking the magician's code. Magic's biggest secrets finally revealed. It was a guy in a mask, right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. I remember this was like.
00:31:12
Speaker
It was on Fox, I remember, and I remember thinking, this is blowing my mind. Yeah, sure, right. And I was looking into it, and I finally know who the guy in the mask was, and it was this magician called Val Valentino. Whenever I think of magic, I always think of David Copperfield, and then I always think of these damn specials, because
00:31:36
Speaker
When we were kids, there was these specials where fucking David Copperfield would make the Statue of Liberty disappear. It was incredible. I mean, it was amazing shit back then. It really was. But another form of magic that I want to talk about and which I have a little bit of personal experience with is hypnotism. Ooh.
00:31:56
Speaker
So hypnotism is a part of magic. I'll talk a little bit about the science in a little bit here, but I do want to give a personal annotation is that my grandmother, who is 80 years old now, when back when I was a kid, she had a very serious smoking problem. She had at least a pack a day, like type of smoking.
00:32:20
Speaker
And she tried everything that was available back in the mid 90s. We didn't really have things like the patches and the gum quite yet. It was more like cold turkey or you did something else.
00:32:35
Speaker
And she decided to go see a hypnotist and the hypnotist hypnotized her into thinking whenever she thinks about having a cigarette, she will see a like a mouthful of ashes. Oh, my God. And what an image. And that fixed. I don't want to say fixed that stopped her from smoking. She didn't smoke from that day on. She didn't smoke a day in her life and never has to this day, which is so insane.
00:33:04
Speaker
That's incredible. Yeah. I'm terrified of hypnotists because I already know that my brain would probably be susceptible because there is something about brains that certain people are more susceptible to hypnotism and suggestion. So not going to catch me getting hypnotized unless it's for weight loss. But
00:33:29
Speaker
Um, but I want to talk about some of the most, uh, famous, uh, violence that has happened to hypnotism. Tell us. Um, the first one is about a woman named Sharon Tabarn. Uh, this takes place in September of 1993. She was 24 years old at the time. She went to see a hypnotist, Andrew Vincent, at a pub in Leyland, Lancaster, Lancaster Shire.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah, land cashier Lancashire. Sure. England to wake her from her trance. Vincent told her that she when she was told when she was being awakened, essentially, she was told that she would feel a 10000 volt electric shock in her seat. She awoke with a shock and left the pub on the way home to barn complain that she felt dizzy. Hours later, she choked on her vomit and died in bed.
00:34:21
Speaker
Tabarn was a healthy woman and was only two weeks, two weeks shy of her 25th birthday. She had been drinking that night, but not the amount that would cause her to choke on her own vomit. Tabarn's death was ruled an accident. However, Tabarn's mother blamed the hypnosis show. Her lawyer argued that the hypnosis somehow relaxed Tabarn's gag reflex, which led to her chocolates.
00:34:46
Speaker
Tabarn's mother also said that her daughter was terrified of getting electrocuted and that it could have contributed to her death. She actually called for a public ban on Hypnosis shows, but it was discussed by British ministers, but nothing ever came of it. Oh, it's crazy. Oh, my God.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, another one in spring of 2011, this one is, this one's crazy. Uh, I don't know how to even take this, but this one's really nuts. Um, in spring of 2011, North port high school in North port, Florida, our favorite place.
00:35:21
Speaker
had a disturbing number of active students die in a short time. First was Marcus Freeman, the school's 16-year-old quarterback who died in a car accident on March 15th. According to his girlfriend, he got a strange look on his face and then he drove right off the road. Then there was Wesley McKinley, 16, who was found hanged to death outside of his home on April 8th of 2011.
00:35:43
Speaker
And then the final victim, 17-year-old Brittany Palumbo, was found hanging in her bedroom closet in May of 2011. Oh my god, awful. The day after Wesley's death, George Kinney, the school's principal, told police that these three students were some of the 75 students and staff that he had previously hypnotized. Oh my lord.
00:36:07
Speaker
He had taught Marcus how to hypnotize himself so that he could focus better during football. To help Wesley get into Juilliard's School of Arts, Kenny had hypnotized the young guitar player the day before he hanged himself. Kenny had also hypnotized Brittany to help her with her test anxiety. When her marks didn't improve after five months, she killed herself. Oh my god, awful.
00:36:29
Speaker
After being put on administrative leave, Kenny resigned in June of 2012, and he was given a year's probation for practicing therapeutic hypnosis without a license. The school board settled with the families of the students giving each family $200,000. But this just shows that what we think of... I don't know what you... What do you think of when you think of hypnosis?
00:36:52
Speaker
I mean, I don't know. I think about the stuff with the no smoking, I do think that that is legit and valid. I've met a couple of therapists who actually swear by it, and there's a science to it, so that makes total sense to me.
00:37:11
Speaker
I just think that I would never want to do it unless it was literally somebody who has a license in something else medical because they could probably do something very wrong to you. The brain is very susceptible. We're susceptible to everything. We like to think that we aren't, but you are susceptible to influence. It's called advertising. Come on.
00:37:38
Speaker
You are constantly influenced all day long every day. So it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that somebody who knew what they were doing and has done it before and practiced, that they could influence you to do something that could be anything. So yeah, I think that's pretty scary, to be honest. You would have to really trust the person doing it. And I don't know. It's freaky.
00:38:03
Speaker
Well, I think like in my mind, when I think of hypnosis, I think of like people quacking like a duck on stage for like laughs at like a corporate retreat or something. I actually didn't even think about like.
00:38:19
Speaker
this side of it. Like the influence or the restorative or the manipulation of hypnosis. So that's something to think about. So how does hypnosis work? This is from Time Magazine. You can read the full article on Time Magazine's website. I kind of took snippets from this because it was pretty lengthy like any Time Magazine article.
00:38:43
Speaker
Hypnosis has a surprising, robust scientific framework. Clinical research has shown that it can help relieve pain and anxiety and aid smoking cessation, weight loss, and sleep. It can help children and adolescents better regulate their feelings and behaviors. Some people even use self-hypnosis to manage stress, cope with life's challenges, and improve their physical and emotional health.
00:39:07
Speaker
It's been used in various forms for centuries, but it wasn't until 1843 when the Scottish surgeon, Dr. James Braid, popularized the term hypnosis. Braid's central discovery, the concentration can guide the brain toward a more suggestible state, was and remains controversial, but physicians have continued to test and teach the technique over centuries with great success. Interesting.
00:39:35
Speaker
Today, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and other healthcare professionals certified in hypnotherapy will first screen a potential client for their ability to be hypnotized using validated suggestibility scale. Not everyone is as subjectable as other people. The hypnotherapist will talk with them about what sort of sensory experiences make them feel safe, like a lakeshore retreat or a beach vacation. I think of the psychic that we had on the show that did some things.
00:40:05
Speaker
similar. Then the hypnotherapist will conjure that imagery focusing for an example on the salt spray of the ocean, seagulls calling overhead, and the sun-kissed skin to help the person go deeper into the calming visualization. If done right, the patient's physical surroundings will melt away.
00:40:28
Speaker
Such scene-setting techniques can create the ideal stage for positive transformation, says Birmingham University psychology professor Steven J. Lin. During hypnosis, people are more open to the suggestions of the hypnotherapist, whereas whether those ask a patient to detach themselves from past painful experience or visualize a solution to their problem.
00:40:55
Speaker
So going further, brain imaging studies have helped illuminate what happens inside the hypnotized brain. Through much still remains a mystery, however. During hypnosis, activity in a brain region that helps people switch between tasks quiets down, Spiegel says. This same region seems to disconnect from another area responsible for self-reflection and daydreaming, which may be why hypnotized people aren't worried about who they are or what they're doing.
00:41:25
Speaker
researchers also found that hypnosis can calm brain regions that help control autotomic functions like heart rate, blood flow, and breathing. Yeah, sure. One of the most modern, interesting applications, this blew my mind. I did not know that this was real.
00:41:43
Speaker
One of the most modern things that they do with hypnosis is in operating rooms, says Lorenzo Cohen, director of the integrative medicine program at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. If you don't know what that is, that's one of the top cancer centers in America.
00:42:03
Speaker
For some localized breast cancer surgeries, namely lumpectomies, the center lets patients choose between general anesthesia or localized anesthetic and hypnotherapy. Those who choose the second option remain fully awake during their surgery, but a hypnotherapist first helps them enter a state of deep relaxation.
00:42:34
Speaker
hypnocidation, says Cohen. More than 30 clinical trials have affirmed the use of hypnocidation, and they continue to use it to this day. And they actually say that people who received hypnocidation experienced less preoperative anxiety, required less pain medications,
00:42:56
Speaker
And during surgery, they reported less post-operative pain intensity, nausea, fatigue, and discomfort than the people that chose general anesthesia. And so that's for a lumpback to me, they said. Yeah, yeah. Which I mean is not, that's not like a little surgery. No, not at all. I mean, it's funny, my surgery was almost a year ago to the day, right? And I'm just like thinking like how,
00:43:24
Speaker
There's no way I could have been awake for it. Like no fucking way. That's crazy. Well, that's like, and I forget where I just saw this, but have you ever heard of, and this is going a little bit beyond magic, but maybe it's like the magic of medicine. But have you heard of like these brain surgeries where if the person is an artist, let's say, let's say a violin player,
00:43:49
Speaker
They will have them play violin during their brain surgery so that they know that if they're like touching an area that would impede their function as a artist. What? So they're awake during their brain surgery. Come on. That's crazy. That's insane.
00:44:09
Speaker
But the human body and brains specifically, we still know so little about. It's true. It's just insane to me. But yeah, that's kind of like hypnotherapy and like where we're taking it today. I did not know that hypnosis went this far into medicine.
00:44:31
Speaker
But I guess it's something that we're actively looking into and is still using today, which is insane. I have not heard any of this. I think that's really cool. I did not think hypnosis could be used during surgery. I mean, look, general anesthesia, it's a lot on your body. So if this is the development of a new option, hey, fucking cool. That's amazing.
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. I think that will do it for horror in real life. We went through a lot. There's everybody. So it was Andrew. It was a very magical segment. Yes. Oh, wow. I just love doing little puns like we didn't even talk about like Houdini and how he died because of a trick and like all this stuff.
00:45:19
Speaker
I mean, well, there's so much out there. I mean, I'd love to hear from listeners on social. Like, you know, like, let us know, like, do you, are you into magic? Like, do you go to magic shows? Like, are, do you do magic tricks yourselves? Like, let us know about that because I, I mean, I think magic is cool still. You know, I, like, I remember, um, the night I was, Andrew, you, you would have been with me. We went to that little magic place on, um, on, what do you call it? On Clark street, you know, yeah.
00:45:46
Speaker
The laundromat place. Yeah. I can't remember what that, but it's like the magic cafe or something like that. Um, like if you're ever in Andersonville in Chicago, like go to this place, it is like, it looks like a laundromat on the outside, right? And you even walk in and they have laundry machines going. But if you know the secret code, they let you in and it's like you go into a fucking palace. This place is insane inside. I think that kind of stuff is still really cool.
00:46:10
Speaker
I think it's so cool. And like, I mean, we, we didn't like go into a show, like we just had at the bar, but like the guy was doing like, I think he was just doing card tricks for us. And it was fucking cool. It was so, so neat. So I still think that stuff is very far away from the cringe. I love it. Me too. I like being surprised and I miss magic specials on TV. So putting them back. Thank you. All right. Well that will do it for horror in real life. We'll be right back with everyone's favorite segment.
Entertainment Reviews: Ripley and Roadhouse
00:46:38
Speaker
What you been watching bitch.
00:46:42
Speaker
let's all go to the lobby let's all go to the lobby let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat and we're back and it's time for maybe your favorite segment maybe you skipped this part i'm not really sure but it's what you've been watching bitch what you've been watching you magical little bitch
00:47:05
Speaker
And if this is your first time to the show, this is the portion of the show where we talk about what we've been watching or what we've been reading or what we've been listening to. But you know what? For title's sake, we just say what you've been watching, bitch. So Maddie, what you been watching, you little bitch? I am so excited to talk about this because it just came out. It is Ripley on Netflix. Have you watched any of this yet?
00:47:28
Speaker
I haven't even had it. It just came out yesterday, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Andrew, you, I think you're going to fucking love it. It is because you liked the talented Mr. Ripley. Yeah. Love, love that movie. So you're going to love this because I, I like you. I am a huge fan of the Anthony Mingela film, the talented Mr. Ripley with Matt Damon, et cetera, et cetera. Jude Law, all of them.
00:47:49
Speaker
incredible movie, wonderful adaptation of the Patricia Highsmith novel, which I have read, and which actually, because I binged this over the past day and a half, I ordered all of the books now. There's five books in the Ripley series from Patricia Highsmith. I didn't know that, actually. Yeah, she started writing them in 1955, and I can't remember. Well, no, she released them in 1955. That's when The Talented Mr. Ripley came out.
00:48:14
Speaker
And all five, the fifth one came out, like maybe in the 90s, I want to say. So it's a pretty long, long span. Those five books are referred to as the Ripley ad, kind of like the Iliad. But if you don't know the story, Thomas Ripley is basically a grifter.
00:48:33
Speaker
And he is in New York and he is approached by a man named Herbert Greenleaf to go to Italy and convince his son Richard, or also known as Dickey, to come home from Italy where he has basically just been a loaf. He's just been drinking and smoking and partying and having fun and hitting on women and all the rest of it.
00:48:57
Speaker
It's time for him to come back to America and settle down and get back into the family business, which is shipbuilding, right? And so Anthony Mingella did a great film adaptation. It was beautiful in color, very sexy, all the rest of it, right? Now, this new one is another adaptation. It's another interpretation of it. It's all in black and white. And Andrew Scott plays Tom Ripley. And I gotta tell you, it is fucking awesome.
00:49:25
Speaker
it is way, way darker than Anthony Mingela's, not just in like the actual, like, like the actual film itself is darker. Like the way that this plays out is darker, but there are a number of other differences that are very, very cool. The character of Marge, who's played by, um, Oh, what's her name? Uh, Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah. I was thinking goop right away.
00:49:47
Speaker
Marge is played by Gwyneth Paltrow in Mingela's film. She does a really great job of it, but her interpretation of Marge and the interpretation of Marge in this one, they are polar opposites. Polar opposites and way more like the book.
00:50:04
Speaker
So this one, I'm not going to give it away to you. I'm going to let you discover that on your own. And also the character of Dickey, you know, played by Jude Law, of course, in the Anthony Mingela film. And this one, oh, I forget his name. Oh, he's really, he's a really good English actor, but I can't remember his name right now.
00:50:19
Speaker
But it's once again, a very different version of Dickie. And so it's if you're a big fan of the Mingela film, and if you've read the books, I think that you're really going to enjoy this. It's something new. And Andrew Scott, fucking I gotta tell you what, this is the best thing he's ever done. He is he's so fucking good as Tom Ripley. When that show ended, I watched it last night, that show ended. I like I just went, Oh, just fucking
00:50:46
Speaker
Good. It was awesome. I loved it. Go watch it right away. Cool. Um, I just question, have you read all the books? I have not. I've only read the first one, which is why I was like, you know what? Let's read the rest of the now. And they're all, they're all kind of like short little crime novels and I'm going to Italy at the end of this month. So it's the perfect thing to bring along on my little trip. So I'm going to read some Ripley while I'm in Italy.
00:51:11
Speaker
Cool. My first one is Roadhouse, the new Amazon Prime movie adaptation remake, whatever, whatever you want to call it. Did this just come out? Yeah, it came out like a week ago. Oh, I want to see this for sure.
00:51:27
Speaker
So obviously this is a remake of the Patrick Swayze movie from the 80s, right? Yeah, 80s. Fucking love Patrick Swayze. Rest in peace, baby. I mean, I've seen Roadhouse before. It was not a Patrick Swayze staple for me, but I've definitely seen it. This is a remake starring Jake Gyllenhaal. OK. He plays an ex MMA fighter who is basically hired by a bar in the Florida Keys to like
00:51:57
Speaker
be a bouncer, essentially, because they've had a lot of crime with biker gangs and stuff, and so this woman hires him to just come down and help fix the problem, essentially. On the surface, this movie is really slick-looking, I will say that. It's filmed like a Michael Bay movie. It's very slick.
00:52:19
Speaker
It's so cheesy, though. Like, I don't know. Is it really? I don't know. I'm not going to say I didn't have fun watching it because it is like a like slick action movie where Jake Gyllenhaal is shirtless, like almost to 75 percent of the time, which is good. Yeah, which is, you know, fine. And it.
00:52:39
Speaker
It's just kind of like I don't you have to watch it like they they actually hired. I've Connor McGuire, which is a. Oh, I. I hate Connor McGuire. Oh, my God, I cannot. So he plays he plays one of the main villains in the movie. Oh, I don't know if I can watch it now.
00:52:56
Speaker
And so everyone in it is just so over the top. I don't know. Like you're either going to be really into this or you're going to like like we talked about earlier, cringe your way through it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't I don't want to say I'd recommend it. But if you're in the mood for like just like a stupid action movie, maybe give it a shot. I mean, a guy gets eaten by a crocodile for God's sakes. So right.
00:53:21
Speaker
You know, speaking of Jake Gyllenhaal, do you ever miss him from like his like non super muscular days? Donnie Darko, you mean? Yes. Like like like Donnie Darko, but also I mean like like like Brokeback Mountain. You know what I mean? Also, a little known movie called The Good Girl with. Oh, yeah. Right. Yes. Yeah, that's when I had a crush
Nuclear War Realities
00:53:43
Speaker
on him. I don't have as big of a crush anymore.
00:53:48
Speaker
If that makes any sense it does it does like i mean like donnie darko like that was like sexual awakening what that was like holy shit i am like i would do anything for you now he's just too muscular for me to be honest it's it's too much.
00:54:04
Speaker
Well, in this movie, he plays an ex-MMA fighter. Andrew, my next one for you is not a show, it's not a movie, it is a book. And it's called, listen to the title of this book, it's going to definitely inspire you and make you go, I don't know, sit in the garden or something. Nuclear War, a scenario. And it's literally a, it's a nonfiction book. It is a book that's all about
00:54:30
Speaker
Um, what would happen if a nuclear war actually began? This guy was just on the daily show. We just watched him on the daily show. Oh, it's not, it's not a guy. It's a woman. Oh, wait, this is a very similar book than that. There was, there was, I forget the name of the book, but another book just came out at the same time as this one almost. I forget who that guy is.
00:54:50
Speaker
This was written by Annie Jacobson, though. Annie Jacobson is a New York Times journalist. Very well respected. Has written a number of really cool books, including one on Area 51, which I have not yet read, but I'm going to. Nuclear War. I heard about this. Do you know about the Lex Friedman podcast? I think I talked about this last episode, actually.
00:55:10
Speaker
Um, I don't actually know Lex Friedman. He's just sort of like a big, like, like software tech nerd kind of thing. He went to MIT. Um, he's from Eastern Europe, but lives in America. Um, he's really cool guy. He has on a lot of guests on his show that I don't agree with, but he's really dedicated to like having a very balanced kind of show. And oftentimes like when he has people on his show.
00:55:32
Speaker
It will be very long episodes. And I mean like I mean like four hour episodes. I'm not joking. Oh, God. And and she was on the show and it wasn't quite four hours, but it was like three and a half hours. And I listened to all of it. And I was like, holy shit, I have to read this book. So I'm about halfway through now. And what Annie Jacobson did was she went and talked to everybody you could possibly talk to about nuclear weapons and what a nuclear war would look like if it actually happened.
00:56:02
Speaker
So you're talking about the top generals, people at the Pentagon, people around the world who know what the fuck they're talking about.
00:56:09
Speaker
And she takes you through in this book, literally, I'm not joking, second by second, what would happen. And it is, it's both incredible, and I got to tell you, fucking terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And the main point of the book here, which, you know, if you don't already know this, but I actually think a lot of people really, really don't, in fact, I think most people don't get it.
00:56:35
Speaker
Nuclear war is insane. And if nuclear war ever happens, it is literally the end of the world. There is no coming back from it. There won't be anybody that actually survives. Everyone will die, and the people that didn't die will wish they were dead. That is the reality of it. But it's the thing that I think that people actually don't get. I think most Americans don't get that. I think people think, well, if there's a war, we'll win.
00:57:03
Speaker
And if somebody shoots a nuclear missile at us, well, we'll just bomb them back and we'll be the people who are victorious. You won't be like you. You really won't be. And the things that this book goes through. Oh, my God, Andrew, it's it's wild. It's a it's a it's a thrilling book to read, if that makes any sense, because it kind of like keeps you going the whole time.
Rom-Coms and Unexplained Phenomena
00:57:22
Speaker
So like I said, I'm only halfway done. I'm very much looking forward to finishing it off this weekend. It is excellent. And once again, it is called Nuclear War, a scenario by Annie Jacobson.
00:57:33
Speaker
Hm. I don't want to read that, but I like that you don't read it. Don't read it. I'll read it for you. I'll read it for you. My next one to switch gears is Irish Wish on Netflix. Oh, yeah. We've heard about this over here. The Lindsay Lohan. I bet it was very authentically Irish. It has to be.
00:57:56
Speaker
Um, Lindsay Lohan, Netflix movie, uh, famously Lindsay Lohan has signed on with Netflix, I think for a four movie deal. So this would be the second out of the four. Um, the first one being falling for Christmas, which was, uh, really bad.
00:58:12
Speaker
God bless her. At least Irish Wish was a step up from that. Irish Wish and Irish Wish. What a dumb name. So essentially what this movie is about is Lindsay Lohan plays a publisher or a publishing assistant. She helps get things published, essentially. And she's working with an author who she's kind of worked with and she's helped write this book that's become really famous.
00:58:41
Speaker
and she's secretly in love with him but won't tell him and then the guy gets introduced to one of her friends and her friend falls in love with him and then they are getting married and they go to Ireland to have the marriage at a castle because he's from Ireland.
00:59:01
Speaker
And when she's in Ireland, she sits on she sits on like what essentially is like a rune, of course, and and and makes a wish that she was getting married to him. And then it's a it's a whole like sliding doors situation. You know what I mean? Like where you kind of see like what what would have happened if yes, out of circumstances would have taken place. It's not a great movie. Yeah, sure. And listen, Lindsay Lohan is doing her best here. She's trying to her journey. She's trying to regain some sort of
00:59:31
Speaker
Listen, I feel really bad for a lot of these, and it's now coming out through this Nickelodeon shit and everything, how bad it was in the early 2000s and the mid-2000s for a lot of these younger actors and actresses and the way they were manipulated and the way that they were treated.
00:59:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's and it really is awful stuff. And so I applaud Lindsay Lohan for coming back and like, you know, trying to trying to get some semblance of her career back. I just think she deserves better scripts than this. That's all. Yeah. You know, I mean, look, it's it's people watched it. I can guarantee you that. You know, I mean, fuck my my friend Emily fucking here on on Patty's day. She was like, well, I'm watching Irish Wish. I was like, oh, my God. Are you kidding me? She's like, yeah, some some some Patty's Day I'm having. I was like, oh, my God.
01:00:25
Speaker
Yeah, you know what? I will probably watch it just for the crack of it, just to watch it. It's essentially like a Lifetime or a Hallmark movie. You know what I mean? It's not anything deep. You know what I'll do? When my niece is here, my niece is visiting next week, the day that we get back from Galway will both be very tired and probably hungover. I will make her watch that with me. That will be good. That will be a good evening watch. My next one, Andrew, is on Netflix. It is called Files of the Unexplained. Have you seen this movie yet?
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, we watched the first episode last night, actually. Yeah, me too. Now, listen, I was stoned when I watched it. So I don't remember all of it, Andrew. But I can tell you it was fun. I want to go back and watch it so I can actually remember the shit. But like the way that I that I would explain it to people, and this is kind of what I got from it. Tell me if you if you feel the same way.
01:01:12
Speaker
It feels sort of like a poor man's, what is it called? Unsolved mysteries. Unsolved mysteries. Does that make sense to you kind of? Absolutely. So this is the way I took it, is that Netflix has their unsolved mysteries, which is almost 95% true crime.
01:01:34
Speaker
And this, I feel like they're taking like all of the weird stuff that we used to get in Unsolved Mysteries and bringing it into its own show. So that makes sense. Like the hauntings, the aliens, the poltergeist, like that's what's going to be on this show. I think I think I think for me, maybe being stoned and I wasn't like crazy, but I was definitely like, you know, I was I was feeling good. Like I think it was just a little bit too all over the place for me, if that makes sense. Like the first episode was like it was there was a lot fucking going on.
01:02:03
Speaker
There's a lot of witnesses. Yeah. That's, that's what I mean. It was just, there were so many different people talking and I was like, you know what? I can't really focus on this right now because I am lit. So like maybe I'll come back to it later. Um, and which I will because like you obviously I love this kind of shit we all do. Um, so I'm, I'm glad that it's there. I'm looking forward to maybe even tonight finishing off the rest of it because it was a lot of fun to watch. So anyways, files of the unexplained on Netflix. I'm sure all of our listeners will love it.
01:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, my next one was a kind of like check off in my horror horror background because I had never seen it. This is Vamp from the 1980s. It's currently on AMC plus, which I believe also encapsulates shutter. So people should go and see it.
01:02:50
Speaker
Um, this is about a couple of guys who are in trying to get into a frat and what they are assigned to do is to go into the city and get a prostitute and have a prostitute come back to the fraternity and do like a little strip show. And you know, you know, do, do that. It's like going to the city and they, they go to this strip club to like go solicit a sex worker. Um,
01:03:19
Speaker
And then they, you know, come to find out there's something a little bit more crazy going on at the sex club that they didn't know going into it. If you can judge by the title, you probably know. But this this is famously starring Grace Jones as one of the head vampires. She's sexy. She's deadly.
01:03:41
Speaker
This movie is just like a ton of fun. Like if you if you think of any like 80s movie, it's it's kind of that same vibe. And like the characters are really fun. There's some good twists and turns. This is definitely one that was in my blank space as far as like horror of the 80s that I haven't seen. And so I just like kind of went back and watched it. And I'm really glad that I did.
Historical Series: Manhunt and Civil War
01:04:03
Speaker
And if you haven't seen it, go and check out Vamp.
01:04:06
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome too with Grace Jones. Very cool. My final one is from Apple TV Plus. It is called Manhunt. And I am not referring to what you used to use when Grindr didn't exist, Andrew. Not that. Manhunt.
01:04:21
Speaker
Manhunt is a TV sex chat. Right, right. It's a TV series on Apple TV+. It is all about the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. And this is, it's primarily about, as the title suggests, the manhunt for John Wilkes Booth who killed him at Ford's Theatre. Great show. It's an interesting show. If you think about the Civil War era and the Civil War in general, we don't have a lot of
01:04:51
Speaker
of movies or shows that aren't directly in the war, or they're not gone with the wind, or like Cold Mountain, or something like that. Or like Glory, or whatever. Exactly, right. So it's stuff that's just... This is a very different show when it comes to the Civil War era.
01:05:09
Speaker
And what I mean by that is it's very modern. And the writing, I can't quite put my finger on if I like the writing or if I don't like the writing. Because I can't tell if the writing feels authentic to the era or if it doesn't feel authentic to the era. I just don't know what to make of it. That being said, I still like it quite a bit. I do think that there are some parts that feel a little bit awkward.
01:05:39
Speaker
But in general, I'm enjoying it. I mean, look, in the show, Lincoln is obviously dead, but Lincoln was played by Hamish Linklater, who I think is a very good actor. I do think that maybe he might have been miscast as Lincoln in this. I think he does okay, but once again, it's all a pretty different interpretation of that entire just issue.
01:06:01
Speaker
So, I don't know, it's something very new, but I think that maybe he could have been played by somebody different. Also, Patton Oswalt is in the show. And Patton Oswalt sort of always takes me out if I see him, because he's just, he's fucking, he's Patton Oswalt. It's like he can't do anything else. But he's okay. Tobias Menzies plays Edwin Stanton, who was the Secretary of War during the Civil War. He's quite good in this. And then Anthony Boyle, who's actually a Northern Irish actor, who's been in just a
01:06:30
Speaker
fuck ton of stuff lately. Um, he plays John Wilkes Booth and lovey Simone plays, um, plays an enslaved woman named Mary Sims. Um, so it's, it's, it's a really interesting show. Um, I think that the show does a good job beyond like the main plot of also like giving you some good history about just the stuff that happened then. Like, you know, I was watching one of the episodes today, for example, and I had forgotten the part of the history where, you know, during the restoration period,
01:06:59
Speaker
Black people who were no longer slaves, of course, were given land grants, and they were given the 40 acres and a mule kind of thing, right? What I actually forgot is that the government took the fucking land away. They did it, and then Andrew Johnson, who was a raging anti-just fucking bigot from hell,
01:07:18
Speaker
he made sure that the lamb that got given to the slaves was taken away from them so they would have nothing. Isn't that just awful? And what this show has done for me is it's given me a good bit of history, but it's also made me just so angry about America yet again.
01:07:36
Speaker
in the sense that if I could go back in time and just tell Abraham Lincoln, please just absolutely eradicate the South. Just go through, just burn everything down. Please do it. Just trust me on this. Just fucking trust me.
01:07:54
Speaker
I wish I could do that because Jesus Christ, it was awful. My God, it was awful. What happened? Um, so I don't know. I'm a bit like half and half on the show, but I do think it's interesting enough to watch. Um, so manhunt Apple TV plus, there you go. You know what I think when I think of Patton Oswalt is that we were written up right next beside him on the AV club and that one article. I forgot about that.
01:08:17
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, I like Patton Oswalt, but I think you know what I mean. If he's put into a serious movie, you're kind of like, wait, what? Does he belong there? Does that make sense? Yeah, no, no, no. I'm reminded of when he released his podcast and then there was an episode about us and I was like, oh, sweet Patton Oswalt.
01:08:38
Speaker
My last one is currently streaming on Peacock. This is Lisa Frankenstein, famously written by Diablo Cody, known for Juno and Jennifer's Body, amongst other things, but those are the two biggest things.
01:08:55
Speaker
I don't know who the director is. I didn't look that up. But this is about a girl in the 80s. She's kind of a loner. Her mom was actually murdered. And this is about her and her dad in a new relationship. And she now has a stepsister and a stepmom, played by Carla Cugino, which we just saw in the fall. I love her. So Usher.
01:09:19
Speaker
And it's just like her kind of like being a loner and in a new school and doesn't really know she's kind of like a I don't want to say a goth because it wasn't really like got like think of Heather's like how she was at the beginning of Heather sure it's kind of like that depiction and it's her just trying to figure out and then one night she accidentally gets drugged at a at a high school party
01:09:39
Speaker
and she stumbles into a graveyard and during a storm the graveyard gets hit by lightning and what do you know, a boy comes out of the grave and then she has to figure out what to do with them. That's essentially the plot.
01:09:55
Speaker
OK, I really, really liked this movie. I know a lot of people suffer from not really getting Diablo Cody's writing style because she does do a lot of like under the breath type things or you got like that. Like, think about when we watch Jennifer's Body. How many times have you watched Jennifer's Body and you've picked up on other like little pieces of dialogue that you didn't hear the first time? Like it's it's that kind of writing. So I think that is so good.
01:10:24
Speaker
I think that that sometimes can rub people the wrong way. Honestly, for me, it's what I prefer because I think that she understands like how people speak when they're like younger. I don't know if that makes any sense. But maybe it's total sense to me. Like people talk in inside jokes. People talk in like popular culture. Like that's just like how it is. And I think that she does a really good job of kind of putting that into a cultural experience of a movie.
01:10:51
Speaker
And this takes place in that's her style in it. And I think it makes sense. Yeah. So I really liked it. Um, it was surprisingly, uh, pretty gory, which I was not expecting, but, um, I, I really liked it. Um, I thought it was smart. I think that the two leads are good. Um, I'm not always hip on that sprouse guy, but he does a good job. Was it Dylan or Cole?
01:11:16
Speaker
Which one was on Riverdale? Dylan, right? Dylan, I think. Yeah, that's the one that was on Riverdale. So I think that he's a little bit much sometimes, but he's good in this because he doesn't have too many lines because he's mostly just like, oh, you know, he's Frank. Yeah, I think both of the Sprouse brothers are definitely too much, but I still think that they're cute.
01:11:37
Speaker
So yeah, that's Lisa Frankenstein. You can either rent it or if you have peacock, you can stream it for free. So once again, this is not a paid endorsement for it. Exactly. Folks, that does it for what you've been watching. Bitch, Andrew brought us a roadhouse on Amazon Prime, Irish Wish on Netflix, Vamp on AMC plus and Lisa Frankenstein on peacock.
01:11:58
Speaker
And Maddie brought us Ripley on Netflix, Nuclear War, a scenario which you can read now, Files of the Unexplained on Netflix, and Manhunt on Apple TV+. So stay tuned and we'll be right back with our first film of the episode, Wizard of Gore. Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. The announcement that I am about to make has been made only twice before in motion picture history.
01:12:26
Speaker
Each time it has preceded the showing of scenes from motion pictures which have become regarded as the most unusual of their type ever filmed. Now we make this announcement for the third time. The same production team that made the classic movie Blood Feast, and later a film called The Gruesome Twosome, which some regard as the wildest movie ever filmed,
01:12:54
Speaker
have a new movie geared to the 1970s. We are about to show you a few scenes of this movie, which is called The Wizard of Gore. For those of you who appreciate this type of cinematic art, you will see the most startling scenes of their type ever filmed. But for those of you with heart conditions, or who are with young and impressionable children,
01:13:21
Speaker
We ask that you turn around in your seats or leave this auditorium for the next two minutes. Thank you.
01:13:31
Speaker
He's certainly not the Lord of Illusions, but he is the Wizard of Gore. Maddie talked to us all about Wizard of Gore. Is it magic or wholesale slaughter? A TV talk show hostess and her boyfriend investigate a shady magician who has the ability to hypnotize and control the thoughts of people in order to stage gory, onstage illusions using his powers of mind bending.
01:13:59
Speaker
A Wizard of Gore was directed by Herschel Gordon-Lewis, written by Alan Cahn, produced by Mayflower Pictures. Montauk the Magnificent was played by Ray Sager, Sherry played by Judy Clare, Jack played by Wayne Rattay, Greg played by Phil Lawrenceon, Steve by Jim Rao, Detective Kramer by Don Alexander, and Detective Harlan by John Elliott. The film is rated R, it's 95 minutes long from America.
01:14:29
Speaker
released on October 23rd of 1970 way back in the day and filmed in Chicago, but also in Rockford, Illinois also. And the budget was $60,000. And it does not surprise me that we do not know how much this film gross, but I'm going to guess not very much. So this was a first time watch for both of us, of course. So Andrew, what did you think of it?
01:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, so in looking at movies that were available to us, this one rose to the top and I had never seen it before. Of course, though, then I did see that it was labeled as an American splatter film and it was directed by Herschel Gordon Lewis. So I kind of already knew what we were getting ourselves into. Yeah, sure.
01:15:16
Speaker
Um, I watched this via the full moon, um, channel on Amazon prime, which, which is kind of cool. Um, you can watch all the puppet master movies there and all that good stuff. Um, I think that I was a little bit more, um, how do I put this? I think I was a little bit more primed to enjoy this movie, maybe more than Maddie. Yeah.
01:15:41
Speaker
I've seen a lot of these kind of like splatter midnight movie type like films. Sure.
Movie Review: Hypnotic Horror
01:15:50
Speaker
This for me was what would play at the music box 24 hour movie marathon. Yeah. Sure. Like at like 1 a.m. You know what I mean? Like this is what would play.
01:15:58
Speaker
So I still got a lot of enjoyment out of it. I think that all the practical effects are pretty good for 1970, especially considering the $60,000 budget. I think that the acting, listen, it's not great. It's not. But I think that everyone's doing what they can. I think that our main girl, Sherry, does her job just fine. I think that Jack is a big old jackass.
01:16:28
Speaker
And I think that Montag, you know, when he there's there's many points in this movie where the actor looks directly into the camera, but not on purpose. So it kind of takes you out of it for a minute. But when I'm looking at this and I'm interested to
01:16:45
Speaker
When I'm looking at this from a story perspective, when I think of the plot of what is happening, it's actually pretty interesting, the way that you could hypnotize a crowd into not understanding that you're actually killing people on stage. I think that that's interesting. What I think this suffers from is it being, I think that this deserves to be an episode of American Horror Story. This doesn't need to be an hour and a half.
01:17:14
Speaker
There's it's a little too repetitive when we see I think four or five different magic shows throughout the movie, which all start the same. So you're watching the same thing over and over again. So it gets a little bit repetitive. But did I still enjoy watching it? Yeah, I still did. And
01:17:34
Speaker
I don't know if I'd return to it anytime soon, but I still liked kind of like the thought of it. And I did see that there's a remake. I've never heard anything about it. A remake from 2007, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And it's got somebody famous in it, too. Like Crispin Glover, I think. Really? Or something. So maybe I'll give that a shot. But it does have Crispin Glover and it also has Kit Pardew is in it, too. Oh, you used to love him. Love Kit Pardew.
01:18:02
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so like overall, I think that this just kind of maybe suffers from lack of budget and the timeframe that it was made in. Um, but what did you think? Um, oh, and also, uh, Brad Duroff is in the remake. No way. Should we have changed the remake? Maybe we should have watched that one.
01:18:21
Speaker
I mean, look, I mean, look, I think you hit it on the head right from the beginning, right? And our listeners who have been with us for a while, they know the kind of films that you and I both get into. This is just not my kind of film. And while I appreciate it and I can definitely have fun with it, if I'm sitting down to watch it critically for the show, that's a different story, you know?
01:18:41
Speaker
I don't want people to think I never have fun watching these. Of course I do. It's fun to watch, but I also have a podcast where we talk about movies. I've got to pick at it. It's a film from 1970.
01:18:57
Speaker
which does not sound that long ago when you say it, but it's a long time ago. That is almost 60 years ago now. So, I mean, like, this movie is basically 60 years old, and for a 60-year-old film, it actually does pretty good at what it's trying to do. I do think that one of the interesting things that I thought of during this was during the television bit, when Montag was finally on the TV for the show,
01:19:25
Speaker
and everyone's watching it around the world or whatever. You mean when he's on Housewives Coffee Break? Yeah, thank you. I was thinking, wow, that's kind of similar stuff to Halloween 3. I wonder if they got a little bit of those ideas from that in terms of the hypnotism and people watching it and that kind of thing.
01:19:44
Speaker
But I mean, look, it's it's a bit of a silly movie. Like the the acting is spectacularly bad. I mean, it's it's really, really not good. But it is also of a certain era, you know, where people just said their lines in, I don't know, very particular ways. And like, look, the movie, I don't I don't know who these people are, to be honest with you. I know Ray, I think Ray Sager was it was in quite a few things with with Herschel Gordon Lewis. But I think the rest of them really weren't.
01:20:12
Speaker
And so it seemed to me kind of like I wonder if these were like college acting students or something you know what I mean? People who were just like looking for a project to do. So I mean look you're not going to walk away from the Wizard of Gore with any big insights on life or comparisons to you know really important works of art or anything.
01:20:33
Speaker
Um, but I think, you know, if you watch this, I think this is a good background movie or Andrew, like you said, if you're going to the, the, the, the, the, what is it called at the music box? The music box of horror. Yeah. If you're going to like one of those, like horror movie marathon kind of things, this at one in the morning would not bother me. It would actually kind of be pretty fucking funny to be honest. Um, and like, look, it is, it is for, for a movie from 1970.
01:21:00
Speaker
with a very low budget. It does get pretty gory in a way that does make you cringe, especially when he's in the eyeballs and shit. Even though it is very clearly fake and you know this, duh, you're not an idiot. But even still, it still makes you cringe a little bit looking at it because it's fucking eyes. Anything with eyes, I just have to kind of shudder and shy away from.
01:21:26
Speaker
For instance, when the first girl, you think she's going to get sawed in half by a hacksaw, and then he brings out the electric saw, and he's like, what were you expecting a simple hacksaw? And I was like, actually, I was, but kind of. Yes, actually. And when he starts to saw her in half, and you cut to her face, and clearly in just an accident, but a piece of intestine comes up and hits her right in the mouth, and you're just like, oh, god. Right, right, right.
01:21:53
Speaker
And so I think, too, for a minute, like you sort of have to cop on to what's actually going on. I don't know if that happened for you or not. I mean, and I watched it in like the sober light of day. You know, it was in the morning. And for a minute, I was like, wait a minute. What's actually going on right now?
01:22:10
Speaker
Like, yeah, it takes a second. No one knows what's happening. And then you finally get it. Oh, he clearly does have some very good illusion power over people. Or does he? Or does he? And you know, I think that's it. It's like, you know, like, you know, I always look at the letterbox reviews. A lot of people, you know, sort of say the same thing. Like, no, this isn't like some like blockbuster movie, but like it has a good premise. I think that's what it has going for it more than anything else. Like the story is not bad.
01:22:38
Speaker
But like you said, Andrew, I really, really agree with you. I think this could have been a short film or just like a Tales from the Crypt episode, basically. Yeah, yeah. So one thing that never came to fruition in this movie that I thought was going to do something, and I don't know if you did, but the bit with the mausoleum,
01:23:00
Speaker
So every time that he kills someone, he goes back and steals their body and takes them to a specific mausoleum. But then nothing really ever happens with that. That part really creeped me out because I was like, why would he go through all the trouble of implicating himself in yet another crime and going to get these bodies?
01:23:23
Speaker
and taking them to this mausoleum if something I thought maybe they were gonna rise to be zombies or I don't something but like yeah I didn't really get that part did you did you have any other like intuition on what they were trying to say with that I wish I did Andrew but no I really don't
01:23:40
Speaker
because they make such a big deal about like the one woman rising from her cup her let's let's just be honest her like paper coffin because of the size of it like bend yeah and he continues I mean he kills the one
01:23:56
Speaker
Coroner guy to get the other body and he continues to take these people to this mausoleum and they continue to show kind of like the The saying that's on the mausoleum. I didn't write it down But I thought there was gonna be something more with that. It never comes true to fruition, but I think that's just part of it It's like this is just this is a movie that just isn't it like it's fun and
01:24:18
Speaker
It's gory, it's funny in some ways, and it's a little bit silly and stupid, but it's not... And I'm using this word in a critical way. It's not a good movie. It's not made well. And I think that the plot holes, like the one that you just talked about, which is a pretty big one, it's just something that you have to accept with this movie, I guess.
01:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, there was another part. I don't know if you notice this, but the first victim, you know, after she gets up and walks away like from like nothing happened, she goes to a restaurant and yes, I do. And she sits down at the table and then the waiter or the waitress finds her dead there. But if you look at the.
01:25:00
Speaker
If you look at the movie, which obviously this has been restored somewhat, so you can see things a little bit more clearly. But she's clearly laying on a sheet of plastic that's like protecting the carpet or it's probably where they were. They filmed probably whatever restaurant in Rockford, Illinois, where they were. Yeah. I think the line you make things sound as exciting as a shoelace factory was funny. Yeah.
01:25:24
Speaker
There was one part where me and Michael both looked at each other and were like, wait, did he just say that? There's a part where they're recovering from the trauma that they had because they saw a dead body on their way home from the magic show, Sherry and Jack.
01:25:42
Speaker
And she has blood on her hand that she accidentally got from the dead body because they fake their way into being pressed to go to see the dead body. And he's wiping off the blood and he's like, okay, all right, let's just go home. We'll have a half gin, half vermouth. We sprinkle the vermouth on the female toes and we drink the gin. And I was like, wait, what? What? What the fuck does that even mean?
01:26:06
Speaker
I also like the conversation that they have where essentially Jack is like, I don't want to go to another magic show. Like Sherry, like seriously, don't want to go. And she's like, well, I go to all these sports things for you. I go to the baseball games. I go to the back of all games. Yeah.
01:26:25
Speaker
And he's like, well, I didn't hear you complain when we went to the collegiate wrestling. And she was like, well, it's nice to see a body in shape every once in a while. You know what, girl? True. Absolutely true.
01:26:39
Speaker
Um, I don't know. Like there were parts of this that I really liked. And then there's just like the parts that just drone on a little bit too long. Like there's, and then there's parts in the script where they recount things that happened in the movie that weren't correct. Like there was a part where the one of the policemen says like,
01:26:58
Speaker
Oh, they found her in a booth and I was like, no, she was clearly on the ground next to a table. She was right there. And like there's another part where he's like, yeah, I followed her out of the parking garage. And I was like, no, no, you didn't. No, you didn't. You got in a car behind her in the in like the valet parking like. So there's like little parts in that where I was like, did they feel like did they have a script that they were following and then they were just trying to find places to film?
01:27:26
Speaker
you know what i mean they filmed it very very fast so i'm looking at the at the wikipedia page for this right now and they said the principal photography took place in 1969 and lasted two weeks that's so that is i mean like i've never produced a movie before but i produce plays and i can tell you like
01:27:45
Speaker
You can't do anything in two weeks. That is a very short amount of time. So I would imagine with with a very small budget and a fairly large cast, too, there were a lot of moving pieces here. Two weeks was just fucking nothing. So shit was getting messed up all over the place, I'm sure. Yeah, I just found it weird that like they didn't adjust the script for like what they filmed. They don't. I mean, honestly, they probably just forgot. I would I would imagine.
01:28:11
Speaker
Um, I, I did like a lot of the, I think the gore stuff is pretty good for the time. I like a lot of liver, you know what I mean? Probably a lot of liver and like maybe a chicken breast was in there too. Kind of thing. I did. I did appreciate that the opening act was him chopping off his own head in the guillotine. You know what they needed? They needed Dettie the magician to make things right.
01:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I want to go to Chicken Unlimited, the restaurant that they meet at, because that was a real place. I want to go to any chicken restaurants. I am into that all the time.
01:28:47
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, let's talk about the ending a little bit because what a whopper of an ending this is. So let me, I'm just going to put it into context and then you can react. Okay. What I understood is that Montag was going to be on the housewives coffee break.
01:29:10
Speaker
And in that he hypnotized not only the studio audience but everyone watching the television and they were going to make the people walk into fire.
01:29:22
Speaker
However, Jack wasn't looking or wasn't paying attention, and so he's not hypnotized, and so he pushes Montag into the fire. Then when they go home to celebrate, it turns out Jack is not Jack. Jack is Montag.
01:29:41
Speaker
And he takes off his face and he's like, ha ha ha, I tricked you again. And then he starts to tear Sherry apart with his hands where she starts to maniacally laugh. And you're like, what the fuck is going on? And then she looks straight into the screen and says, oh, you think you're the only one that's been playing with hypnotism?
01:30:03
Speaker
Oh no, I'm the master sorceress of hypnotism. And this, all of this has not been real. And then we flash to the beginning of the movie when they are sitting in the audience and she basically leans over to Jack and she goes, you know what I think? I think he's a phony. And that's the end of the movie. And it says the end or the beginning. And then it starts to spin around like it's a Batman episode.
01:30:31
Speaker
Yeah. So what do you make of that? Um, you know, Andrew, I just take it as it is at face value and, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I just, I don't think, I don't think there's much to get from it.
01:30:47
Speaker
Well, she says you've been living in, in one long dream. So was, are we two, are we to expect that it wasn't real? Sherry has hypnotized Montag from the very beginning to think that this is all happening, right? Is that, or, or maybe she's hypnotized the whole time to think that she's that, I mean, like it was 1970. They were all on acid.
01:31:16
Speaker
Yeah. Huh. Okay. All right. You just, you just threw me a little bit of a loop because I had thought, I thought I put it together in my brain and then you said that about Sherry and I was like, Oh shit. I don't know. That's kind of what I thought it was. I was like, Oh, well maybe they got hypnotized differently and we just didn't realize it. And maybe this is like a never ending cycle of Montauk's madness.
01:31:39
Speaker
Oh, don't like keeps going. It's like a sweater that keeps knitting and knitting and knitting. Or maybe we're giving it too much credit. I think that might be it, too. I think I think like I would imagine the audiences who saw it at the end, they were like, oh, wow.
01:31:54
Speaker
Um, I, you know, like, I don't know. I wasn't, Oh, wow. This morning when I watched it, but you know, like, okay, the creative ending at least. Okay. You know? Yeah. I mean, when they sat down and drink that champagne, I thought everything was all good. And then they threw us for a loop, which, you know, they lied to you, Andrew. They lied. And Andrew, tell me this. What would you rate the wizard of gore?
01:32:15
Speaker
So here at Friday, the 13th, we judge on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. I'm going to give Wizard of Gore. I'm struggling between a three point five and a four. I'm going to say three point five. And I said, I like the overall story, but the monotone of all the characters and the repetition of having to sit through magic show four to five times got a little tired. I really like the campiness and the midnight movie feeling, however.
01:32:43
Speaker
I really, I agree with Andrew on all of this and Andrew, I actually raised mine to 3.5. So we have the same rating for this one girl. Yes. Um, and my main takeaway was this, how did these people not win Oscars for this amazing acting? The end. All right. Well that will do it for wizard of gore. We'll be right back with our final movie of the episode magic.
01:33:12
Speaker
When your heart begins to pound, when your mind begins to go, keep telling yourself it's only a movie. You do magic too? Corky does magic. I only do tricks. There's never been a magician like him. How long you been like this kid? He never really
01:33:39
Speaker
You're one success, but you're afraid of it. I figured I'd stop by here and ask you folks about you. I'm not afraid. Where were you living? What city? How many kids? I'm not afraid. I never expected to find you. I've loved you all my damn life. I won't be here! I was afraid of success, like you said. I needed to get my hair on straight. And now you're fine? Sure. On account of pain.
01:34:00
Speaker
I've known her ever since high school. I never figured I'd have a chance with her. Big hands, don't big hands, don't please let me follow wherever you go. It's only to take her. Now everything's changed. She believes me. A man appears after 15 years. Says run away with me. Don't do it. Oh, please don't kill her.
01:34:37
Speaker
Magic, a terrifying love story. Hope you're ready to see Anthony Hopkins do something very different in this film from 1978 called Magic. Andrew, tell us all about it.
01:34:53
Speaker
A terrifying love story. A ventriloquist is at the mercy of his vicious dummy while he tries to renew a romance with his high school sweetheart. Directed by Richard Attenborough, written by William Goldman. Production and distribution were handled by 20th Century Fox. Corky slash Fats was played by Anthony Hopkins. Peggy played by Ann-Margret. Ben played by Burgess Meredith. Duke played by Ed Lautner.
01:35:21
Speaker
Merlin, played by E.J. Andre, Toddson, played by David Ogden Steers, Sadie, played by Lillian Randolph, and the taxi driver, played by Jerry Hauser. This is rated R, comes in at 107 minutes. It was made in L.A. and New York City, released on November 8th of 1978 with a budget of about $7 million and made $23 million, which, considering that I hadn't really heard that much about this movie, was kind of, that's kind of surprising to me.
01:35:50
Speaker
So Maddie, first time watch for me, but what about you? Same thing for me. And like, you know, like I said, at the very start of the episode, it's definitely one that I would have honestly, I'd never even heard of it, which is really interesting because the show, the movie has a lot going for it, right? I mean,
01:36:11
Speaker
OK, the director was Richard Attenborough. Originally, Norman Jewison, one of my favorite directors, was supposed to direct this. Jack Nicholson was supposed to star in it. Laurence Olivier was supposed to be in this.
01:36:28
Speaker
Lawrence fucking Olivier was supposed to play Ben Green, right? And Margaret is in this. Lillian Randolph is in it. If you don't know who Lillian Randolph is, she was the maid in It's a Wonderful Life among many, many other movies. She's an incredible actress.
01:36:47
Speaker
Burgess Meredith is in this. Burgess Meredith was the original music man, right? And of course, not to mention Anthony Hopkins. I mean, this is a big time fucking movie. I mean, it is Hollywood royalty all the way down and all the way up, right? So I do think it's kind of interesting that I've never, I mean, have you ever really heard of it?
01:37:10
Speaker
Um, I've heard it in horror circles, um, but I've never like, oh, right. Yeah. Not like it's not like a popular movie. You know what I mean? Right. Right. Exactly. I mean, even Steven Spielberg wanted to direct this and he wanted to cast Robert De Niro for the Anthony Hopkins role. No, he did. I mean, this is, this is all written down. It's, it's absolutely crazy. The shit that this script had going for it. And like, I think at first glance, what I was worried about with this movie,
01:37:39
Speaker
was that it was just going to be corny. I mean, it has a fucking ventriloquism dummy in it. I mean, if you think about it, we were talking earlier about how magic used to be really cool and now it's not. Ventriloquism dummies are never cool. They're freaky and I don't want them around me. You know what I mean? But this apparently harkens back to a time in America when people were like, oh, a ventriloquism dummy, I love it. You know what I mean?
01:38:09
Speaker
loving totally i mean like this is like i mean in the story it's like oh my god fucking what's his name corgi which also his name is fucking corgi um like corgi is going to be the biggest star in america with his fucking ventriloquist dummy named fats i mean it's right off the bat this seems like a very kooky premise
01:38:30
Speaker
But the movie somehow, and I don't really know how it does it. I think it's a cinematic feat, to be honest with you. This movie avoids corniness and sticks to what works, which is a story about clearly someone who is mentally disturbed, completely breaking down and the terrible after effects of it.
01:38:56
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, it's 1978. It's not right now. So yeah, there are still some pieces to this that feel awkward and clunky to our 2024 brains and eyes. But for the most part, I think this movie really works quite a bit. I think Anthony Hopkins was not a surprise. Fantastic as Corky.
01:39:16
Speaker
Although the one thing about Anthony Hopkins is this, is like, obviously he can play like the psychosis of it very well. That's not a problem for him. Yeah. For me, it's the dialect. It's the accent. And like, obviously for Hannibal Lecter, it works. Hannibal Lecter, you know, completely that what he could have any dialect almost, and it would work in the American context.
01:39:41
Speaker
With Corky, though, I think that Anthony Hopkins does mostly a good job of trying to be American. But there are times when it just doesn't work a little bit. And that is, that's the only thing for me that sort of took me out of the movie. Now, that being said, obviously, Anthony Hopkins is so fucking good and well good enough that I don't really care about it. But if I had to pick on anything, that would be it.
01:40:07
Speaker
The dummy itself, I think, works really well. And I think all the other characters do a great job. One of the best parts of the movie, actually, is when Ben Green, who is his agent, finds him at the lake retreat that Peggy and Duke own. He finds him and he walks in on him, but Anthony Hopkins' character doesn't know that he's there.
01:40:30
Speaker
And when he turns around, it's not even what Ben Green says, it's Ben Green's face. And he looks mortified at what he sees in front of him.
01:40:42
Speaker
Well, he finally understands exactly. But I mean, and it's something so simple. It's so simple. But the way he played that scene, Burgess Meredith, it was genius. It was almost chilling watching that part. So, yeah, I mean, look, I had a great time with this movie. I did not expect that I would. But yeah, I really loved it.
01:41:02
Speaker
Yeah, going back to your dialect, there's one line in the movie where I totally was like, ooh, I'm suffering a little bit from the Hannibal Lecter of it all because he says to Peggy, he goes, does he still look like James Dean? And I was like, I was expecting him to go, does he still look like James Dean? Like, you know, James Gama. Yeah.
01:41:22
Speaker
So I get where you're coming from with that because we're supposed to understand that he is from like the what are they what are they called? The Catskills, the Catskills. Yeah. Which is like a very like backwoods, like has an accent. It would be it would be like sort of like an Appalachian almost. Like, I mean, not not quite that like south or whatever, but like it would be very different than what than what he has. There would be an accent and none of these people have an accent. So.
01:41:52
Speaker
Um, yeah, I, I mostly agree with you. I didn't know what to expect going into this movie. Um, I didn't know if we were going to get the whole, you know, uh, fats is really alive or where it was going to go because we've seen so many of these ventriloquist dummy, like either episodes or movies or things of this nature where like, Oh, the, the, the dummy is actually real or, you know, or controlling him or like whatever.
01:42:21
Speaker
And so I was I was constantly on the lookout for like those things and they do play that up a little bit in this movie, especially with the killing of Duke. But for the most part, they play it pretty straight that no, this is just a guy that can't.
01:42:36
Speaker
Because of the losses he's experienced in his life, he can't separate what's real and what's not in regards to fats anymore. The only thing that I wanted a little bit more of is I wanted a little bit more of his backstory with fats because
01:42:56
Speaker
There's a part in the beginning where there's obviously his mentor is is passing away and He recounts his first night at amateur night and how he failed because that audience is just god-awful God if they cut to that laughing woman one more time. Oh my god Oh my god
01:43:14
Speaker
because we all know that person, and we all know that person. And then he recounts that he kind of failed, and then it does this weird cut to like a year later, and all of a sudden at the Stardust, it's like 23 weeks in a row, you know, corky and fats, and I was so taken aback that like, wait, when did this, did he make this dummy? Did this dummy come into his life somehow? Because the way that,
01:43:41
Speaker
The way that they introduce it is kind of like a heckler in the crowd, and then all of a sudden it's just introduced that he now has a ventriloquist dummy as part of his show, and everybody loves him now. And I was like, wait, but where did it come from? Because he wasn't trained in that from his mentor. He was trained in card tricks from his mentor. So it threw me off just a little bit at the beginning of the movie. It discombobulated me a little bit of the plot.
01:44:05
Speaker
But then once we kind of get into the whole Catskills, he's at the lake, that part of the movie, I was like 100 percent on board. Like that part of that from that part on, I was like, this is a great movie. Love this. It was just that beginning was a little weird to me. Like I didn't like you. Yeah, I would agree with you. I think that this movie would be a great candidate for a good reboot, not a remake, but like a reboot, like maybe like a little bit of a reinterpretation.
01:44:33
Speaker
And like this in a modern context with like modern, I don't know, just sort of modern everything could be really cool. And what you said there makes sense. Like a little bit more, like a backstory of fats could be fucking cool, I think. I think it made the story better.
01:44:50
Speaker
As I'm thinking about this, this could play into AI really well. Something with AI and this and that kind of a context. I don't know. Are you hearing this, writers? Are you hearing this? Yeah, maybe we should just write it. But anyway, listen, and those are my initial thoughts on the movie. I think that I was so happy to see Anne Margaret on my screen. So good.
01:45:14
Speaker
I was happy to see Burgess Meredith on my screen again. There's just a lot of people in this movie, like you mentioned, that were just like, whoa, this is a star-studded movie that nobody has seen. And then some of the trivia about this is it's just such interesting stuff. So here's a few things. Burgess Meredith replaced Sir Lawrence Olivier. Olivier was to play Ben Green, but had to drop out due to illness.
01:45:42
Speaker
Lawrence Olivier had not gotten sick. It would have been Lawrence fucking Olivier on the screen, right? Also, after the success of A Bridge Too Far, Joseph E. Levine wanted to work with William Goldman and Richard Attenborough again and bought the rights to Goldman's book with the intention of having Attenborough direct it. Attenborough accepted the assignment
01:46:03
Speaker
because he could use it to finance Gandhi. That's why he did this movie. Isn't that crazy how this just connects to so many things? And then also, Gene Wilder was the original choice for Corky. But director Richard Attenborough and writer William Goldman, they wanted him, but the producer, Joe Levine, refused on the grounds that he wanted no comedians in the movie to distract from the serious nature of the story. And I think he was right. I think that if it had been Gene Wilder,
01:46:34
Speaker
I don't think
01:46:51
Speaker
it makes sense though in comparison to Anthony Hopkins like you know what I mean like that was the other part of the movie where I was kind of taken out a little bit was because like Ann Margaret is like a stunning woman and like even you know and in this movie you know she's in like I would say not prime but like pretty prime he looks great yeah and the fact that she falls in love with
01:47:13
Speaker
not only Duke, because he's kind of a, you know, he's looking gross in this, but I kind of get it. Like I get that he was like the stud of high school that she fell in love with. And like, then this is what happened. Andrew, Andrew and I love our white trash boys too.
01:47:27
Speaker
Um, the, the fact that she like kinda is in, into Anthony Hopkins, I just, I don't, I don't get it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Cause it's, it's not that just that it's Anthony Hopkins. This is like Anthony Hopkins, like a nerdified.
01:47:43
Speaker
So like it's like his hair is like all like pumpkin pie hair. Like socially awkward, socially awkward. He dresses awful. I mean, there's there's nothing attractive about him. The only thing that that like people are drawn to with him is the fact that he does this voice. He does fats.
01:48:00
Speaker
And so like, you know, I think that that for us, you know, once again, ventriloquist dummies are not cool. And like, we don't like them. And like, I don't want to be around them. You know what I mean? But like, I don't know, maybe in 78, they were cool enough that people were like, Oh, yeah, that's really fucking cool, dude. Well done. And like, that is the charming thing about him. But I think it's difficult for me and you to go, Wait a minute,
01:48:25
Speaker
why kind of yeah yeah there's there's nothing else about him in this that would draw her to him nothing i did like the part where he shows up to the cabins and this is before we know that they were kind of like high school friends yeah and um she's running the the cabins and she's like we're kind of closed you know and he's like uh 50 a night and uh you know and whatever and she goes
01:48:48
Speaker
OK, I guess we're kind of open. I think that that was good. The part that really had me on edge was we talked a little bit about it earlier. But when Ben shows up in his cabin and they're having a discussion around like, hey, I think you should probably go see someone. You got a problem. Like now I understand why you didn't want the medical the medical exam to get out to get on the show.
01:49:15
Speaker
And he's like, no, no, no, I'm fine. I just didn't I didn't think it was like, I didn't think it was warranted. Like, I don't want to want to do that. It's upon principle. That's what he keeps saying. And then so Ben says like, OK, well, you know what? Let's let's do a little experiment. I want you to make fats shut up for five minutes.
01:49:36
Speaker
Oh, that scene, Andrew. And that five minutes where Anthony Hopkins is trying so hard to just be normal. And every about 30, like 15 to 30 seconds, he's like, all right, how much time left now? Yeah. How much time left now? How much time left now?
01:49:52
Speaker
I was on the edge of my seat. I was like, it was going to happen. It was incredible. And then and then when he finally relents and gives in and does fats again, it's like fats on like a motor mouth. It was it was so well done, so well done and so creepy and honestly so sad. It was it was like a sad part to watch, too.
01:50:12
Speaker
Do you know what? But do you put my notes that I thought was kind of funny about that moment? So I was like, well, now we know how long he lasts in bed because five minutes. Oh, Ann, Margaret, why are you into this guy? Oh, yeah, I know. And then we have the kind of like love triangle between Duke and Corky and Peggy.
01:50:37
Speaker
Um, where she wants to leave Duke, but she, but this is what's kind of like earnest about this character of Peggy is like, she understands that her marriage is over, but they've spent so much time together and they've had so many years of their lives together that she doesn't just want to like abandon him. Like, even if you have like ill will in your heart for your partner, she still is like, I still owe him an explanation. I still owe him something. And I thought that that was
01:51:06
Speaker
kind of evolved for 1970. Although the only thing for me there was like, well, he's also like abusive. He's really like, that's the only part there that didn't work. If Duke hadn't been abusive, I could see it. But like, he's pretty, I mean, like maybe he's not like super beating her or anything, but like he's damn near close to it. And that's, it was hard for me to sympathize with that.
01:51:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, I wasn't sympathizing with him. I was kind of more sympathizing with her. Oh, yeah. No, I get it. I get it. Yeah. And I like that. I like all the parts where like so like Anthony Hopkins kills Ben, but he kills him with fats. And there's a part where Peggy like kind of like catches him out in the forest, but they're from far enough away where she can't see what's going on. And he's like, oh, I'm just out for a walk.
01:51:59
Speaker
And then like after she goes in, she's like, okay, well, you know, come and see me for a drink later. And he's like, okay. And then you like, you're kind of like, and you think it's been like, like struggling to like, like crawl away or something.
01:52:15
Speaker
But no, it's actually it's actually Corky doing fats. And I was like, that's kind of genius. Like that took me into it. There are parts like that. And then, of course, when Duke is killed, where you I literally thought fast fats was alive. Like I was like, well, fats is alive. Like this is what's happening.
01:52:36
Speaker
And then it turns out that corky was behind him behind the curtain and was controlling him with the knife. I was like, you know, I was really glad when I saw that that was the case. Me too. I think if it had been all of a sudden supernatural, I would have been like, no, no, that just doesn't work.
01:52:54
Speaker
No, I really liked that they played it completely straight. Yeah. If they had gone in that direction, that's when it would have gone to the corny side and it wouldn't have worked anymore. The reason why this movie works is because once again, they stick to the psychology and that's what makes this scary.
01:53:12
Speaker
And then like his I felt I felt so bad for Corky at the end because he he has this breakdown where Fats is kind of trying to convince him to kill Peggy and he doesn't want to and he's like she's like she's the only one that ever has like seen me and she's the only one that like has ever like really cared about me and sad. It's really and he's crying and it's it's it's really emotional. Yeah. And that part like really got me. And then when he goes up, I thought he was going to kill Peggy.
01:53:42
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, they kind of do a quick cut of her, like looking at the, at the, um, whittled heart that he gives her. And they do a quick cut to him coming back to the cabin and he's, he's all sweaty and like has a bloody knife. And you're like, God damn it. He, you know, he killed the only person that he actually ever loved.
01:54:00
Speaker
And then, um, you know, he's talking to fats and fats all of a sudden is like, Hmm, I kind of got a little bit of a stomach ache and he's just like, Hmm, this doesn't feel very good. And then like it's revealed that Anthony Hopkins actually stabbed himself. I think we're dying.
01:54:17
Speaker
Yeah, that part is so sad, too, though. He's like, it's very sad. And when it when I forget who says it to who, but he's like, I hope you die before I do or hope I die before you do. And then the other one says, like, I think we're going to I think we're going to go together. And I was like, oh, that's God. He's awful. But then, like, this is the only flaw that I will give the movie.
01:54:41
Speaker
is that we go from this very emotional scene of like Corky and Fats dying together and we cut to Ann-Margret come in just strolling out with that wood heart. She's throwing it up in the air and she says,
01:54:56
Speaker
You know, Corky, I changed my mind. I'm ready to have the sex now. And she's like, you may not get this fucking opportunity tomorrow. And that's where the movie ends. And I was like, wait, what? Not a smart ending. That didn't make any sense.
01:55:12
Speaker
Like, doesn't it make more sense to end on the emotional tug of them dying together? And who cares about Peggy at the end of the day? A hundred percent. It makes sense to end there. That is that is the only downfall of this movie, really, in the end. Yeah. God, what a movie, though. Yeah, I would never have watched this without the show, of course, and without this topic. And I'm really glad that we did.
01:55:33
Speaker
Yeah, some standout ones I thought were funny was Anthony Hopkins telling Peggy, your breasts belong in the Louvre. And that's a museum in Paris. When Duke goes to give Ben CPR and he says, I'll give him the kiss of life. And I was like, Oh yeah, that's what we used to call it.
01:55:51
Speaker
True. And then there was a part actually calling back to your what you've been watching, bitch, where I thought that Duke was going to get talented Mr. Ripley in that boat. What?
01:56:05
Speaker
Um, but overall, yeah, I just, I enjoyed this movie quite a bit more than I was expecting. So if you have not seen magic, I believe it's on shutter slash AMC plus. I also, it's on, um, peacock right now. So another plug for fucking peacock. I don't know why I can't stop talking about it. You can also, I had to rent it. So like it's, it's rentable. I should also say for, um, for, uh, what is it called? Wizard of gore.
01:56:31
Speaker
I ended up not being able to rent the old one, but it's free on YouTube. So if you just search on YouTube, you can find the entire movie there. Cool. Well, Maddie, what do you give magic? I raised mine a little bit after this discussion. I gave it a five and a half and I said much better than I thought it would be. The film somehow avoids being corny for the most part and six to the psychosis of a mentally ill man that never got the help he needs.
01:56:57
Speaker
And I also gave it a five point five. So we are right on. We are right on course with each other today. This episode. And I said Hopkins is, of course, terrific. The way that Fats and Corky play off of each other is way beyond 1978. The only thing that suffers is a little bit of pacing just because the movie I think is a little too long. But well, folks, that does it for our second film of the episode. Stay tuned. We'll be right back to close out our episode with a game.
01:57:57
Speaker
And folks, that does it for another episode of Fry Gay the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we let you go, we have a game that we haven't played in a long time, Andrew, and it is called Queer Eye for the Horror Guy. Andrew, tell us what this game is. So this is where me and Maddie take both of our movies that we watched today and we infuse a little bit
01:58:17
Speaker
into it so you know take that for what it is. Maddie which movie do you choose to make gay? I choose Magic Andrew. Okay I will do Wizard of Gore then. In Wizard of Gore we have many instances where a man is hypnotized in the
01:58:36
Speaker
It's hypnotizing the crowd to basically get a woman to come up on stage. Because if you remember, if you watched the movie, they constantly are pushing women onto the stage. I think it would have been fun if it would have been a man putting a man on the stage.
01:58:53
Speaker
And we could have at least got a little bit of shirtless action. Also, I think that there is a part where there are two women on stage that are getting swords shoved down their throats where maybe they could have been a couple, a little cute little lesbian couple that were volunteering with each other. So that's how I make Wizard of Gore a little more gay. And like the illusion is like he's like sucking their dick on stage. You took it there, not me.
01:59:22
Speaker
But like, hello, you know, you know that was in your head somewhere. OK, so for magic 1978, we're going to make it gay and we're not going to make any of the humans gay. No, fats is going to be gay because he loves him a big old fat dick in that wooden mouth.
01:59:39
Speaker
And so he is a gay puppet. He's a gay ventriloquist dummy. And he is trying to force Anthony Hopkins's character, Corky, to be gay. And he never says it overtly.
01:59:56
Speaker
but that's why he's never allowed Corky once to have a girlfriend because he wants him to be gay. And when What's Her Face comes along, Peggy, when Peggy comes along, he is enraged and goes into a killing frenzy because he insists that Corky must only be with men and Corky just can't handle it because deep down in his heart, he only loves women and he only loves vagina. And that is how the movie goes.
02:00:24
Speaker
I like it. If I would have done that, I would have done the same thing, but I would have made it a love triangle between fats, corky and peggy. Oh, yeah. Good one.
02:00:34
Speaker
but that's Queer Eye for the horror guy. You know what, Andrew, they tune in for the content. You know what I mean? They tune in for the content. These things, you know, they write themselves, but that does it for episode 119 of Frage the 13th Horror Podcast. If you wanna support our show, there are a couple ways you can do that. I'll talk about the monetary one, and then Maddie will talk about the other one. Sure. If you feel like, you know,
02:01:00
Speaker
Man, I really enjoyed this last hour and a half of content. I think they deserve a dollar. You can do that by going over to Patreon and searching Frage the 13th Horror Podcast, or just simply going to frage13.com slash support, where you can click on the link to get to Patreon. You can give us up to $20 if you want, but I encourage just kind of that little dollar. Think of it as a tip at the end of the day. We're all used to tipping culture now, so give us a tip.
02:01:44
Speaker
If you've never left a review for us and you've been listening for a long time, I don't know what's wrong with you, but maybe you should. Reviews are surefire for any podcast out there, the best way to get other people to listen to. And we love to grow our little Friday, it's not even a little anymore, it's a big family, the big Friday, the 13th Horror Podcast family out there.
02:01:55
Speaker
Be on the patron today.
02:02:05
Speaker
we want it to be even bigger with even more cool people that don't know about us yet. So your reviews help people learn about us and help them discern, Hmm, should I press play on this episode or not? So trust me, your review goes a really long way. Yeah, just do it everybody. And you know, talking about magic today and talking all about the magic of life and mysteries and everything,
02:02:32
Speaker
At the end of the day, we just encourage you to... Get Slayed.