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Review - Longlegs with Jonathan Wymer
28 Plays9 months ago
Review time! Join Jonathan and I as we discuss the highly anticipated film, Longlegs! We go over the incredible acting, atmosphere and cinematography as well as the viral marketing campaign that led up to the release! Is it perfect? Of course not, but we think it's pretty good. Listen to our thought and theories now!
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Transcript
Introduction and Breaking News
00:00:01
Speaker
um We interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to bring you some breaking news. There's been reports all over the area of something crazy going on, something big. People's homes, their minds even, are being taken over by something called... What is it they're calling it? They're calling it Bad Movie of Age!
Anticipation for 'Long Legs'
00:00:22
Speaker
What up, nerds? It's Jacob Babb with Bad Movie Debate, and we are here to do a a very special review episode. we're not goingnna I don't think we're going to be debating this one so much, because I think we both pretty much agree it's a pretty dope movie. There's some concerns, you know but but we'll get into that a little bit later, of course. but um With me, I have my boy Jonathan from the Pumpkinhead episode. What's going on? What's up, people? Um, we were both, uh, very excited for, uh, this movie, Long Legs. That's what we're going to be kind of reviewing, co-co-reviewing, um, and stuff. And like, I don't know about you, man, but I had like so many people at work, like asking me when I was going to go see it and stuff. And I was like, I can't see it till Sunday. So if you see it before me, don't fucking talk to me about it. Like, I don't want to know a goddamn thing. that I don't want to go in blind. And I had a.
00:01:12
Speaker
I had a couple buddies who were texting me and messaging me about it because they saw it Friday and they were like, you saw it, right? like It's so good, right? like What do you think? And I was like, shut up. I'll tell you on Sunday. like i'll I'll message you back about it on Sunday. like i I want to go in and as blind as I possibly can. Oh, yeah. did you ever they like You were super hyped and had... You saw an opening night like as soon as possible, right? Yeah, I mean the bit. Yeah, exactly. Like I saw it first show time that was at my theater, which was like a 7 p.m. showing Thursday
Experiencing the Opening Night
00:01:40
Speaker
night. I like going to like opening nights because generally like it's all full and it was like a sold out. It's like but maybe there's a couple seats, but it was like there was like two of the showings later in the evening that were totally sold out. But it was like making their first to avoid spoilers and stuff, because in it even though it's like four days later where we're recording this and they're still surprisingly, the audience is holding back so much. Oh, yeah. People are being really good.
00:02:04
Speaker
ah Yeah, I was really, I was really surprised that somebody didn't like, you know, just like I haven't like it like a picture of Nick Cage because that was a big part of the marketing, you know, was like not seeing his face until do you see the movie and stuff? I'm surprised nobody like just took a shitty picture on their phone and like blasted it and it just like made the rounds on all the social media and stuff. I haven't seen it at all. I mean, not that I was looking for it, but you would expect something like this with that being of such a big part of the marketing that like that would come out. But I think people are like, really enjoyed like really enjoyed this movie, and they're like, yeah, no, it it really does work better when you don't know what the fuck this guy looks like, and then you see him, and you're like, the fuck is
Innovative Marketing Strategies
00:02:43
Speaker
wrong with it? like
00:02:45
Speaker
i would say um I guess the first thing to talk about is the best part of the movie in my opinion, which was Nick Cage. Like it just yeah everything about him is his acting and like the way his character looks. So we'll just jump right into the Nick Cage talk. um I mean, there's the lead up to it, though, that I didn't really answer your question super well. You're talking about how hyped I was about it. like Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My bad. Go ahead. No, you're good. I totally went over it because there's so much to unpack with this movie. And that's what I loved about it because during the early stages where it was just like, I knew nothing about it until the poster was released. I said, this is the next film coming in early. What the heck is this? This looks like, all right, neon. You're like, all right, neon. Let's do this.
00:03:27
Speaker
And Neon's been coming up so much and like they've been, you know, just kind of killing it. They're like the new A24, basically. Oh yeah, they quite a quick sidebar. All the Neon ah ah trailers I've seen that were in front friend of this movie and like other movies I've seen, they all look amazing. oh Every single woman Neon movie that's coming out soon looks incredible and I can't wait to see it, but continue. 100% and that was the thing that got me so hyped about this one was the marketing of it from neon because the trailer was amazing that that first trailer the teaser was pretty um intriguing but then the full trailer even at that point was still like incredibly mysterious and like trying to figure out a lot of different things before seeing the movie but then you just kind of go into it.
00:04:07
Speaker
And then the marketing alongside of that that they did, like, I know they did like the billboard stuff where it was a phone number and you could call it and you could hear a lot. When you fucking sent me that shit, I was like, what the fuck, dude? Oh, I'm going to tell you. So I was up in Maine and we were getting breakfast. Austin and I, that was our like quick trip, little honeymoon. And, um, We were like up in May to getting breakfast at like this really weird, very like Stephen King kind of place. It was like a breakfast place that closed at 11. It was closing at 11 that day. It was usually open a little later, but for some reason it was closing earlier. But um and it like it was very Stephen King. He was in a shitty strip mall. Everything in the strip mall was closed except for the breakfast place. And like everybody there was a local except for us. And um they ah like the it was a family run. Like the dad was cooking everything. His daughter and his wife were like
00:04:58
Speaker
running the front of house and like serving and stuff and then every single person that came in except for us they knew by name and like they were like usual and they're like yep and they all got the usual their usual and like it was it was wild and you send me fucking are you send like all of us like hey you should call this phone number and I was like hell no what the fuck is this like like I don't trust you on this and you're like just do it and so I finally did And it's literally the note the number, it's literally just Nick Cage like breathing heavily and then like saying some really fucking creepy shit. Like like after like 30 seconds it was like, the text sent you right back and it was like, Jonathan, what the fuck is this? And you're like, it's a long lens. And I was like, okay, well that's cool, but also that was creepy as hell. like So I agreed, the marketing was insane.
00:05:45
Speaker
for this movie. But like, yeah, that phone number specifically. So yeah, they had the 12, the billboards with the phone number, and then the ah heart monitor thing. Yeah. With, uh, how do you say her name? Is it maker and there mic ah Mica? Mica, Mica Monroe. She's incredible. We'll get to her too. But like that heart monitor thing, that was wild. That was a really good little teaser kind of thing and stuff. yeah And then there was the birthday murders.net, the website where I did read quite a bit of it, but not all of it. And so I honestly feel like, you know, as we get to talking about the whole movie, I feel like people who go to see it a second time should probably go through the website because I think even today, like when we're recording this, which is July 15th, like they're releasing more information on that website. It's just continually updating. So it almost feels like an ARG attached to the movie.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, because i had i didn't I didn't know about the website or the phone number until you sent it to me, just because like i I like to look know as little as possible and stuff, but this is the kind of like, I don't really, like I have a whole like sidebar episode about how much I fucking hate trailers and stuff, because they ruin most things these days. yeah um So I only saw the teaser, and then I saw the ah heart rate monitor playing, because I thought that was a cool like marketing bit. And then you sent the phone number. so the website is is it just like a uh is it like a like a true crime website like basically of like yeah murders and stuff is that that's basically what if that's so cool i'm gonna need to check that out but because also i didn't i didn't know anything about like the the 14th and stuff and then like
00:07:19
Speaker
Lo and behold, I'm coming out of the movie theater yesterday and I was like, wait a minute. And I was like, oh my God, today's the fourth day. I was like, oh my God, there's a murder. I was like, there's either, there was either a murder a little girl was murdered either six days ago or it's going to be murdered six days from now. right like well Oh, like that tripped me up for sure. day As I was leaving when I realized that, I was like, holy fuck, it's the 14th. This is why. That's awesome. But yeah, the marketing is insane. I'll definitely need to, what was that website again? It's the birthdaymurders.net. The birthdaymurders.net. That's really cool that they have like a true crime like, like they like, like a
00:07:58
Speaker
like resource like page about murders as if you were like where you would hear from it like i had no idea like my friend told me about it and then he's just huge into that scene like the horror film scene more than i am and so then he just like told me he said yeah check out this website i'm like what the heck hole is this Like yeah, that's
Unique Themes in 'Long Legs'
00:08:16
Speaker
that's insane. Yeah, so yeah this movie is just absolutely incredible So yeah, I was hyped for it just through word of mouth For sure just like hearing people like who had seen it and like I have a co-worker she like watched all the trailers and stuff but she I guess she never came across the website or the phone number and everything and ah You know, she was super hyped for it and she saw it yesterday too So I have to ask her when I see her tomorrow at work like well, what'd you think? Yeah but
00:08:43
Speaker
Because I think one of the things that we were most excited for is um just about this movie before like before we get back to the occasion getting into like the pros and cons of the movie itself and stuff. I think we were mostly excited for at least one of the things I was super excited for and she agreed. and know um I was excited for a horror movie that didn't seem to be about grief as like the main like background and stuff. And like my opinion of that was like, those movies can be really good. You know, the Babadook is like really good. You know, like a postpartum depression kind of a thing, but like grief in there because of the husband and everything. And then Hereditary is obviously like super grief heavy and stuff like that. like Those two movies were amazing, but we did not need the next six years of horror movies to be about grief. know exactly like Everybody in like and I'm not and like I'm saying a 24 to a lot of like the stuff a 24 was pushing out Like there's you know, there's like obviously some other stuff yeah wasn't grief latent and then stuff but like but they were also putting grief forward kind of stuff like everybody was like everybody was doing it and it was like
00:09:47
Speaker
man like i i get it like it's a strong emotion or yeah very emotional um really some of my favorite ones are and stuff but like let's do something a little different and long legs i feel like is the first one i've seen in a while that wasn't specifically about grief as like the the reason why there's some supernatural or like fucked up weird thing going on um and everything like that like uh it just felt I don't know, man. It just felt like, I i mean, I think it's ah it's very Silence of the Lambs, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a much darker and like more fucked up way, which is wild because Silence of the Lambs is pretty fucked up. yeah exactly ah But this one was much, the tone of this one was much more
00:10:31
Speaker
Horror than thriller. Yeah. and so And that added an extra little something for me, ah because I, you know, I love horror movies, I love thriller movies, but like, this like crime horror versus crime thriller, I thought was like, having the needle a little bit more that way, I thought was really, really dope. but Yeah, for sure. No, and I definitely that was the thing is like leading into the movie, like there were definitely like certain expectations put into place but ah simultaneously because of the style, the style of what was released in terms of like the trailer, any of the other like marketing aspects, it it definitely had
Spoilers and Nick Cage's Character
00:11:11
Speaker
It was intriguing because it looked so incredibly different at the same time And I mean, I think obviously the primary thing that lends to that is the cinematography But then yeah, I mean there's so many deep elements to talk about this I don't know if you have a I forget if you're if we have a spoiler free section versus non-spoilers I feel like it's impossible to talk about it without being completely like I don't think we can be spoiler free like I don't think that's I'm usually not you in anything I do on this show so I'm gonna go ahead and say but spoilers ahead for once we super get into it and stuff um yeah definitely definitely can do spoilers cuz like cuz when I texted you right out right as I got out you were like
00:11:55
Speaker
You're like, I definitely like it, but I have some concerns with certain like elements of it and stuff. And I feel like we can't talk about those fully without spoiling some stuff. You know what I mean? 100%. Yeah. But where here's your final warning. Spoilers ahead. If you haven't seen it, go see it, because you need to see it, because it's fucking amazing. Yeah. well See it before you hear this, because it's better to not know anything before you go in. For instance, and here we go, segue all the way back to what Nick Cage looks like. i'm sorry i won't tell your camera just like did the whole focus poll it did a poll it's a shitty little webcam and it like try to like keep focus so if i do any weird movements it does weird for sure um sorry but uh hey it's okay it's good cinematography man you know from it
00:12:43
Speaker
but um but ah I think the first thing I want to say about Nick Cage is, ah in my wildest dreams, I don't think I ever would have imagined that that's what he would look like. i like Obviously, they were super big on like not showing what he looks like until you see him. They have the whole thing with Mecha Monroe, like not seeing him until then, like the heart rate, and like everything we were talking about. and um i just i never thought that's what he was gonna end up looking like and like it makes sense why he looks like that you know what i mean because of the whole doll thing yeah yeah i mean it's like like he looks kind of like a porcelain doll and stuff like like yeah yeah and like it makes sense but i was like that is really fucking scary i really like the way he looks right now i don't want to look at him like he doesn't look any gauge
00:13:35
Speaker
No, like I think the the makeup department did a phenomenal job because it was like, at certain other moments ah in the film, you can't like his, the makeup job um kind of shifts depending on, I guess like the time period. Yeah. Because then yeah, you can see like these pretty intense degradations like in the later half. oh yeah real time of the movie versus like the ah flashbacks and stuff yeah yeah yeah because it starts because um i guess the opening scene is uh
00:14:10
Speaker
So I guess what, that'd be like 20 years before, because we're in the 90s. Yeah, I guess 20s. The current time is the 90s, because you got Bill Clinton on the wall, an FBI thing. I was like, this is older, but I can't tell if they're doing like a purposeful, you don't really know what time period is thing. And I was like, she's using payphones a lot. often like Everything and then as soon as they got into like her FBI like hey like the guy above her her like Leading person at the FBI and I saw Bill Clinton big on the wall. I was like, that's the 90s Okay, so we're in the 90s. That's where we are. I remind myself. It's like oh, no one's got a cell phone. Okay yeah exactly like everything but That's why I was like, okay, I was like the cars are all older and stuff um so like I guess like
00:14:58
Speaker
in the flashbacks in the seventies, I guess it would be since, uh, the whole thing with the first little girl at the beginning is like 20 is like 20 years before, give or take or something like that. Yeah, for sure. Like seventies, eighties, maybe late. I was thinking late seventies, like for sure. eight seventies at least um for sure but he uh because you only see it you see him at the end you see him more because you kind of get some more explanation of what happened uh i happened there and everything but um yeah he it's i don't know how to say it it's like because he looks terrible and horrifying the entire time yeah but he looks
00:15:34
Speaker
better in the flashbacks. And then by the time you get to the, you know, in the interrogation room and stuff, he looks horrible. He looks, he is fucking scary, dude. Just like yeah his horrible white hair. And it's just like literally white as a sheet, like fucking face and everything. It's just and those like obviously fake high cheekbones and stuff but like it's like they're obviously fake high cheekbones but i think it's the point is it's supposed to be like
00:16:06
Speaker
It's like he got surgery. Like, you know what I mean? He got like some obstructive surgery to bring them up to make him look more like a fucking doll and everything. All the different features were like so accentuated. Everything was so exaggerated in a way that it was like, he's supposed to look like some kind of a doll of some sort. And like, yeah, that's how I took that. And like I, and then they brought in all the doll stuff, like with the murders and everything. And I was like, cool. I didn't know there was going to be dolls in this. I don't fuck with dolls. like yeah yeah that shit the so do you think that's what they were going for with his look was like a doll kind of a thing because like that it made sense in terms of like what else was going on in the movie I was like yeah but he's the one that makes the dolls you know so like why was also like I don't know but like what do what do you think about his like what do you think his look was like that just besides obviously making something creepy as fuck like yeah yeah yeah like i said there was a sort of intent you know
00:17:01
Speaker
Oh yeah, 100% like his look it was interesting because there were different elements that kind of give um sort of a hint at the backstory of his character because there's not a lot like the the killer of long legs is so incredibly mysterious throughout the movie like from beginning to end but there's elements that you can kind of sort of pick up on and I think it's also like at the time period in which the killing started and I think we were talking about sort of into the late 70s early 80s like the whole like heavy metal like Satan is good like rock and roll like satanic panic shit type of happening and then that clearly fueled into whatever the lifestyle of the killer long legs which he had a name and I can't remember the name I was, I was wondering, like, I was going to ask, like, I can't remember what his name was. Yeah. I think it's very briefly. Like once they finally, it's like Paul, it's like Paul or something, Paul, something they like, which is honestly super scary to me. It's just scared. And like, I can't remember who, but somebody was telling me that it's like, yeah, this guy could be your neighbor. Like it was supposed to, like, that was kind of the intent of it. Like, or like there was someone that was saying that, um, yeah, that is like, it's like, yeah, it's just a, besides the way he looks.
00:18:15
Speaker
totally normal name like yeah much a lot dude besides the fact that he's just fucking creepy looking you know feels like he just kind of came out of like the 80s heavy metal scene and like it was just like maybe it was in a couple of bands that were like off and like black Sabbath or something because he had like his own like electric guitar in the background and then in the space he lived in, in this sort of basement apartment, and he basically had like, all of this different memorabilia of like, what seemed to be like 70s and 80s rock stars, 80s and stuff. And then like, obviously a splash of like satanic stuff. Because like, ah but there was definitely one that I was like, that's slash from Guns N' Roses. Like, yeah, yeah.
00:18:56
Speaker
Like that's a hundred percent. So like, and his hair is straight up hair metal the hair. Like exactly. Yeah. as but right Like the only part of his, like, his, uh, like costume and like makeup and stuff that like looked normal was his hair. Like his hair looked good. Like, you know, it was just like a like wavy hair metal kind of hair. Like that looked good, but the rest of the fucking terrifying.
Cinematography and Performances
00:19:19
Speaker
Um, exactly. Yeah. but uh he and just Nick Cage man he just played this like that opening that opening scene when he first again spoilers so it's about to get real spoolery right now i'm this is it it's your last chance last chance this is plot spoiler
00:19:38
Speaker
when he first meets Lee at the very beginning when she's a little girl um you know major spoiler literally one of the most major spoilers so if you heard that you're mad you should just leave uh you should just come but like watch the movie then come back and listen to this but we warned you um I loved that opening scene so much. And like, I'm gonna tie it back to like nick's Nick Cage's performance for sure. But like, I just really have to mention I loved because all the flashbacks are like four, three aspect ratio, which is always super fun as like a way to like,
00:20:12
Speaker
implement like hey we're in a different time period like i love like a visual cue like that to be like like in the editing and like the format of like the shot and everything is like i was like okay so we're starting back but everything is it's a like the dead of winter so it's like snow all over the ground and a white house and the trees are all dead I know like you're rolling up and it's like, oh, this is a black and white shot. We're starting with a black and white for three. Like it looks black and white until you get to the house. And then you're like, wait, now there's a little color. And then it cuts to Lee as a little girl inside and you're like, wait, no, it is color. And it's like, that's like a weird, like,
00:20:49
Speaker
Kubrick ask like kind of messing with you. Like what's happening right now? Like yeah, wait, this isn't black and white. Oh, okay. That's fine Anyway, but he's completely like he looks like he's in black and white because he's wearing all white and like his eyes are like almost completely black and everything like once you finally see them but like that shot of him where you just barely kind of see his mouth as he's talking to lee as a little girl as a nine-year-old and stuff is so fucking scary because it's just you're just trying to imagine like the rest of his face and he's saying this creepiest shit talking about her birthday is coming up and everything and like he's got a present for her and stuff yeah like you know a nine-year-old girl and just like doesn't really seem anything wrong with it and stuff and then like at the very end of that scene he like
00:21:36
Speaker
dips down real quick and you like kind of see a flash of his face before it like cuts to like yeah and then it' scored like and more you prize is like crazy and stuff like that i was like just that i was like i i was like i'm hooked was like all right i already like this movie was like unless it goes downhill from here like this movie is dope as fuck. And there's even more to like the cinematography aspect, like the four to three aspect ratio works on a number of levels. Like one, I like it because it's almost directly the perspective of Lee as a little girl. And then the the angles on um long legs almost like not only look like height level of what a kid would see, but it's almost their memory too of what they would remember because
00:22:23
Speaker
the thing that's sort of accentuated like we talked about earlier was like the high cheekbones and then there's a little bit of ah lipstick used for sure. And so there was like that would probably be the focal point of Lee's character in that moment, you know, first seeing this stranger just show up in the yard. right Because you know, we don't find out, you know, you find out like, Completely later. I mean, I'm gonna say that's obviously like a huge spoiler and stuff but like in my opinion is it's pretty obvious in my opinion that like That is Lee, you know, like as a little girl like it seems pretty apparent From like when she gets the like letter in her house that long legs leaves for it's like
00:23:06
Speaker
It's like, okay, that was definitely her. You know what I mean? And that's pretty early on and stuff. So yeah I don't think they're necessarily trying to hide that when you actually start watching the movie and stuff. Like we're going to go to the end and I will eventually get to the end and like that stuff I did not really see coming and stuff. Like I was like, Oh, okay, great. Like that's. not really what I thought was gonna happen but um yeah yeah and everything but I do I do love that uh I completely agree with you I think that's 100% correct like it's um because like she doesn't remember anything about him and like she like barely remembers that somebody visited her around her ninth birthday that was weird and stuff and like like she has like
00:23:45
Speaker
pull that memory and she like finally she like goes and visits her mom and that's when she finds the like shitty Polaroid that she took when she was a kid like she doesn't yeah you know what I mean which a reason why she might not remember it we'll get into later like may have to do with like the dolls and stuff like which is a whole I'm like not 100% sure on and I want to get your opinion like I didn't not like it I think I just don't fully understand maybe exactly what was happening there. Yeah. But I have a very basic idea, but I feel like you have a more in-depth opinion. um But we'll get into that later because I want to, we're obviously dropping a little plot here, but I do want to talk about like actors and stuff and like the two leads and stuff. And like. Oh, yeah. Kim Munro was absolutely incredible. I thought she was amazing. And like, I thought she was awesome. Have you seen um The Guest? I haven't seen The Guest. No. that and stevens
00:24:41
Speaker
No, I haven't seen that I didn't realize until like I was about to go into it that it was the same girl Uh and stuff because her hair is completely different like she's blonde in like Other movies that like she usually like blonde because she's ah it follows too and she's blonde in that Yeah, and she's uh, and she's younger, you know, so she looks a little different and stuff. I was like, oh fuck I didn't realize it was it was her from it follows and the guest but really really really good and she's really good in that but she is insanely good than this. Like I really love the way she played just like a I don't know and it kind of goes like again we'll get more into the dolls and stuff but like I thought it was cool the way I was like she's very flat like this person is very flat you know like maybe it's like one of those like
00:25:24
Speaker
subtle, like she, this character maybe is like autistic or something like, and like they're just hyper focused on like their work and stuff. And they went into the FBI because she like, you know, stays up all night analyzing stuff and everything. She doesn't drink and stuff. She's very like neutral, like monotone and stuff like that. I think that may have something to do with the dolls and everything. I think the way she played that was very, was still very compelling. She was a very, on the surface level, boring person with a very interesting job and assignment to do. But I was still very compelled and wanted to watch her figure stuff out and like figure out and like, I didn't want her to get popped in the head or like killed by long legs. You know what I mean? Like I was interested in characters succeeding and stuff. And I think that goes all to her, like her acting of the character and everything.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I definitely think, you know, she had her work cut out for her as an actor because there's an element in which a movie like this really depends on red herrings.
Plot Twists and Misleading Elements
00:26:31
Speaker
And it felt like there were quite a few in this, in this movie. I definitely went down some wrong rabbit holes while I was in it. Whoops. Nope. That's not right. And like, it was like, okay. Maybe not wrongly though because there are like moments very early on And then as the movie progresses you go like oh, wait a minute. What the hell happened to that other thing? Yeah, I had an idea in my head of like oh shit This is what's happening and then like it got to the end and I was like that's fucking stupid Like now there's no way I was like I was like now that was dumb like whatever idea I had I
00:27:06
Speaker
don't remember exactly what that idea was, but I remember like, like, cause then I was like focusing on what actually happened. So it like left my mind, but I was like, yeah, no, they got me with that. But it was, but I was like, damn, I was hook line and sinker. I was like, yup, this is, this is where this is going. and i I didn't hate, hate it. I liked how that actually happened. You know what I mean? Like versus what I thought was going to happen. I was like, this is actually better like than what it seemed like was going to happen and stuff. so I do think they did a really good job with that. And obviously a lot of that comes to the acting and stuff. Everybody else was really good too, but like, obviously they were the two leads and like they were the best. Um, yeah, for sure it was mostly about them. Cause her, um, her, uh, like, I don't know if he's like the captain of the FBI and captain supervisor. Yeah. Layer Underwood. Yeah. Agent Carter. Um, he, good Lord, he was super good, especially it super great.
00:28:01
Speaker
Like, especially at the end, like when shit like really starts going, you're like, like, i would Oh, no, like, Oh, no, I'm very well because like, he's like really disarming and that really like, both seemingly like as an actor, but also like his role specifically as that character seemed to work. Oh, seemed to work really well to like, yeah be disarming because of Micah Monroe's character of, shoot, what's her name? Lee Harker. Lee Harker, yeah, sorry. That she seems just to be ruled by fear, like the entire time. And sort of like, not, and that was my question too, is like, is there, like, I question it too. It's like, is she a little bit on the spectrum or yeah is this like something else? Because then they introduce, you know, very early on as she's, and when we're in real time with her,
00:28:51
Speaker
that they're currently working on what appears to be a different case and she's matched up with a different partner. Yes, my buddy was saying that, shout out Kyle, he's ah he's been on the show a few times. um He was saying that he really loved the first 15 minutes of it because like with like the opening scene as we've already discussed and then like they're starting on a different thing and then she's just like knows that this is the house and like And the guy and like her partner is like, OK, I'll go knock on it. And she's and that he just gets popped immediately. And then she like takes him down and stuff. And then they run like, oh, is she psychic? Kind of a thing. And they have that kind of supernatural like yeah ESP kind of angle on it. Early on, I was like, OK, so this is a little, there is some uki-spooky dumb shit going on here. There is some supernatural element to this. They're already like getting us ready for that.
00:29:47
Speaker
Which I thought was cool because by the end of it, it doesn't really, that's kind of a red herring. That's kind of one of those red herrings. Cause it's like, it does it's like, like she go they go to the house. She just says, Oh, this is the house. And while he's across the street and he goes, are you sure? And then, yeah, that's it. And she's like, we need to call this in. And he's like, I'll go knock on the door, pop. And just immediately off the head and everything. And like the how I love, I love just the set design of that house in that moment too, where everything was just covered in the plastic sheets and stuff and everything. Cause it's like, okay. So this dude like.
00:30:21
Speaker
Just gonna, does he just murder wherever he wants in here? Like, what, like, what is this guy? And I was like, Oh fuck, they already found long legs and stuff. Completely different dude and clothes. They run her for psychic powers, like to see if she's psychic. She got 50 50 on it, which is better than most people. And they're like, okay, so she might be psychic. And then they don't really, she's super intuitive, you know, and everything like as, as yeah on and she like makes a lot of good connections, but it's like, well, one of the connections she makes, she learns how to read the cipher because long legs. right basically shows her how to read the cipher by leaving that thing in her house and everything like is making a lot of good decisions and everything but she doesn't her like quote unquote late in psychic abilities don't ever really play that much more into it
00:31:06
Speaker
Like, yeah, they they don't, they kind of like, it doesn't even evolve into something else. Like, I mean, just on a matter of plot, it felt very strange that beginning sequence in which like, our partner goes there, he gets shot. They go, she goes upstairs and gets this arrest. This guy, who was just a supposed killer that we know nothing about. some other guy who had been doing some murders completely unrelated don't even get his name like yeah and then that's it she get gone arrest arrest him and then it's cut to she's doing the the test to see if she's psychic or or and that it's in that and then it goes to okay here's your first long legs like thing to start working on like pretty much yeah it's like the only thing that that
00:31:49
Speaker
They literally establish she might be psychic and that's just the the only use for that is to get her into the long legs case. Yeah. And then it's like she, if she's psychic, we don't know, we don't care anymore. And then she's just working like a normal, brain which I like. Like I was like, I was one of the things that I was like, Oh, okay. So like her, like psychic abilities are going to come into this in some kind of way and help her figure it out. No, not, not really. But like, it it was like a complete and total red herring in a way that like makes sense. Cause I'm just now remembering that it doesn't come up.
00:32:24
Speaker
when you're watching it, you're like, yeah, it doesn't really, you don't really realize it. At least I didn't like that that was never really mentioned again. But like, I love that works so well. yeah And then I do want to say about her acting again, you said like, she's obviously like, fear driven, like she's just kind of low key terrified the entire time. Yeah, I loved, loved, loved, loved, loved the character choice. And I don't know if it was the director or if it was her like a comedy collaboration thing of ah every time she pulls her gun out, she is basically hyperventilating. Oh, yeah. you' always The rooms like she's going through the rooms and like checking the doors and like doing all the like the training that you're supposed to do when you're like,
00:33:08
Speaker
trying to find somebody and stuff but she is like full blown like like breathing so loud like which would give you away like yo that was my number one issue with it was like she's breathing so loud Like she's gonna give herself away, but it's one of those but she's doing all the right other mo movements and stuff and I'm like I like that because it does feed into like the like she this person is quite scared a lot like you can tell the character is in some sort of constant state of fear and stuff and it's like, you know, we to figure out why and everything. She knew long legs. She'd met long legs as a kid, blah, blah, blah. Oh yeah. yeah you like For some reason didn't think she was good enough. So it seems like to, um, but yeah, it's just like, also I'm just not like Blair Underwood. That's Blair Underwood. Like Blair Underwood was it? Yeah. i read his name so nonchalantly and i was like wait that like the blair underwood is which is crazy dude because like he was like a 90s like idol right like wasn't he like super big on tv in the 90s wasn't that like sure yeah that's so weird that's so funny to me that it's like yeah this is definitely set in the 90s because blair underwood is here but also he's
00:34:28
Speaker
old now. Like Nicholas Cage is like, he's a 90s rock star for the film industry. So it's just like, like it's you know but weird it's so weird. All those little, again, that's very like Kubrick-esque in the shining, you know, we're like like, oh, we're in the middle of the hotel having this meeting, but there's a giant bright window with the sun coming in. It's like, well, that doesn't make sense architecturally. Like why would that, that can't happen. Like it's like a lot of little like nut nuggets of like, of like, why am I feeling weird right now? Kind of stuff. And I feel like yeah I feel like that like really those little things kind of add to it. Wow, that's just crazy fucking player Underwood is is it is so good. Yeah. So ah I don't know. i So let's talk. Let's get into.
00:35:12
Speaker
overall plot at this point. um okay what What's something that, again, we we'd already kind of said, you had some issues, you said with some story stuff and some directorial like decisions and stuff. What exactly, again, spoilers, once again, if you don't want hear if you don't want to hear anymore. Please come back and listen to this after you have seen the movie. Exactly, yeah. But ah most people I know that will listen to this has already seen the movie, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it's fine. Okay, perfect. what do you So feel free to say whatever you need to do ah say whatever to to illustrate what you're going for here. ah what was or What were your like story and director decision like issues or like like concerns or or whatever?
00:36:03
Speaker
yeah i think it's like it's it's really about Like the setup of the plot is like so interesting because, you know, as it progresses, she gets in the long legs case, um, her and the, ah and, and Blair Underwood as her supervisor and another FBI agent, they basically, you know, go to the homes of these other crime scenes that are supposedly connected murders to everything that's been going on. Because it's like, the only reason that they're connected is because there's a letter from long legs, but there's no DNA.
00:36:35
Speaker
Except for the people that were supposed to be in the house and yeah, your father is the one that killed everybody for whatever reason. So they're like, so he's making them kill people, but he's not there at the time. Yeah, I mean, that's like one of the bigger elements that more so doesn't have to do. It's not so much plot is like what you were kind of hinting toward to is a directorial decision is like, what kind of sandbox are we playing in? Like, because are you deciding that because this is where a lot of people were making comparisons to Silence of the Lambs, which obviously there's a lot of the tropes, I think where it's like tropes and the ninety s in being and stuff and like a and setting long female like lead FBI agent. yeah Like, yeah, yeah it's hard hot to make the comparison for sure. 100%. And you know, it's a serial killer tracking it down. And there's this
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then they, it's almost like, you know, because in the Silence of the Lambs, for those who don't know, like, you know, the, there's sort of a personal connection that develops between the female lead FBI agent and and the serial killer, um, played by Anthony Hopkins that they grow into a relationship of understanding. yeah And so instead of this is sort of the flip side where they already know each other, but they did, it's also re it's like a reconnection. Yeah, exactly. But it's like alongside some of the red herrings that sort of, um, you know, red herrings are great. And I understand why they have to be there, um, in order to keep the mystery alive throughout the entire thing. Every time you see it be the right decision, like it can't, every lead can't be the correct lead. That's super boring and like a crime based story. Cause obviously this is a crime focused story, obviously. So yeah, a hundred percent.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, and so there's that element of like blending the true crime aspect and then involving like, you know, dead leads or something like that. And then when it happens, it's ah it's a little bit jarring to go, okay, all right, so that's not having to do with anything. And then there's the aspect in which like Longlegs is sort of goading Lee, so Micah's, yeah, Lee Harker's character, Lee Harker. And so he's he's like leaving all these breadcrumbs who and to sort of lead up to them reconnecting or rekindling the paths in some sort of sadistic, sort of weird, creepy way.
00:39:01
Speaker
Between them and then like as that search slash hunt is going on you might this might have gone over my head or you might have to like Remind me of that different plot elements, but then at a certain point It's the whole seven aspect where the killer just sort of turns himself in and then I go like yeah Why like the micro the question why get coming up for me like in the movie, right?
Character Analysis and Motivations
00:39:27
Speaker
So you're like so so I get so just to boil it down Make sure I'm gonna answer your question the best of my ability. I need to understand the question fully um So what you're saying is you're questioning why he turned himself in or like basically allowed himself to get caught based on um
00:39:47
Speaker
what uh like because they don't like they barely found out about him you know what i mean and like he was just standing at the bus stop with a couple suitcases and stuff and it's like if he really wanted to get the hell out of there he could have found a much easier way to do it he could have like he's a fucking serial killer he could have fucking killed somebody and taken their car he could have i'm sure he could figure out how to get a car from somebody and steal it and stuff and at the end there's a car that he was driving the car he was driving in the first place Yes, he knows where that is and I'm sure it still works. You know what I mean? So why is he sitting there waiting? Like is that is that what you're getting at? It's like why did he let himself get caught in this moment?
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah, because they's like there's some there's ways that you can sort of explain it in a way. And I've actually heard a couple of people sort of explain it in a way. Right, because you are right. It's definitely seven, because obviously like Kevin Spacey's character, who has no name in that movie, um so you have to say Kevin Spacey's character or like the guy, like he allows himself to get caught because that's a part of the plan and stuff. yeah And like it seems like maybe this is a part of the plan for long legs but also it's not as like clearly defined. So I'm curious what what ah what are other people saying because they may have an answer that like I agree with because I really don't know my best thing is like okay we're going from Silence of the Lamb to like a little bit of a seven thing and now at the very end we're having our own weird twist and like now this is what makes it long legs and like we're like paying homage less like we're referencing and like taking certain elements from stuff that already works really well
00:41:16
Speaker
that That was my thought and stuff and everything. But what are what are other people thinking about that? Because i will I was very much too like, wow, he's just sitting there whistling at the bus stop. like Two suitcases in his hands and like he just and they start coming up and he just puts them down and puts his hands up. like He clearly isn't worried about getting caught. You know what I mean? So yeah what what are other what are other the other things that you've been you've been seeing? Because I'm curious. Well, a lot of people sort of been doing the comparison to his character, not only in the work that Nicolas Cage sort of put in to sort of not in a method sort of way by any means, but basically to just sort of become the character. Amazing. obviously, even the facial aspects and things like that people were sort of comparing his performance to Heath Ledger's Joker. And so in that they're also comparing some of the character motivations. And so when we're struggling throughout the entire movie, even I mean, this is not really spoiler, but it's an opinion too, but
00:42:13
Speaker
Even at the end, I'm still like, what is the Motivate? I don't understand. Like, and I get it, like, there's the serial killer aspects. People will explain it away in reference to Heath Lester's Joker character in the sense that it's just all about chaos. And it's the, it's the effect that basically Longlegs is a killer that's like so self-absorbed in this sort of satanic, ritualistic killing. that there's really no sense or purpose rhyme or reason it's just like this is what he's doing and he's so fully right brainwashed in the sense you know because then that'll lead into what happens after he becomes captive you know and that's where you kind of also wonder it's like oh this is
00:42:55
Speaker
Shocking and we're going another now. It's gonna have to take another turn, right? And want and you know something else is gonna have to be revealed here about the Because like it's just like he gets caught and that's pretty much the end of him like it's uh, it's that one more scene and A couple flashbacks and but he's pretty much done with the story and we still got a good like 20 30 minutes left You know what? I mean like so I get what I get what you mean by that for sure and like I guess my part of my explanation for it would be more along the lines of like I, because I don't disagree with it, but there is a question of why and like the motivation and stuff. I would say my just off the top of my head right now. um
00:43:38
Speaker
um I love D and&D. ah So ah the alignment chart in D and&D. I feel like his motivation could be as simple as he is a lawful evil character. he has He follows a certain set of rules and laws and things that he needs to do and he needs to do these things for a what what could be considered a lawful reason. Like he has a plan. He is but he more or less is being told by the devil by Satan, that this is what he needs to do. So he is following the law and rules of Satan per what he thinks is happening. And it's ah it's purely evil stuff. He's killing little girls and stuff. yeah He's doing it it in a very ritualistic way to appease Satan and everything. And like, as much as I want more than that,
00:44:27
Speaker
i don't i think part of the point is we're not gonna get more than that i think he might just be a lawful evil character you know obviously like a little chaotic but i i was gonna say chaotic evil at first but chaotic evil is just across the as all over the board you know what i mean it's like oh yeah it's literally like the embodiment of just pure insanity and like doing evil stuff he has a rhyme and a reason to what he's doing in his own head. That makes sense. Just because it doesn't make sense to us, like rational, like non-Satan worshiping people, like non-evil people and stuff. It makes sense to him. Exactly. So I think that I i think that's the best i could say about it like that's how i take it is he allows himself to get caught because it was time for him to get caught per the rule of like how satan wanted to do it it was time for him to retire and go to hell and stuff it's like stuff like so interesting you like giving that perspective too because it's actually and i know we'll get into this a little bit is it's actually making me understand a little bit more about the dolls
00:45:36
Speaker
Okay. I'm glad that me saying something made you understand the dolls more because I was like, these are fucking creepy and it works. It's working for me. But like the little brain thing, the little brain ball. And then like when, um, we'll get to it in a second, but like, I guess that's super lynching, by the way, super, that's I was like, oh Now we're doing a little lynch too. like yeah like Let's do it. let's Okay, we can get into some lynch. That's fine. We got a little bit of Kubrick going on behind the scenes. We got fucking Seven, David Fincher going on. Now we're going to splash some Kubrick or i got some fucking lynch in here. yeah All right. That's probably why I like this movie so much because there's all my favorite directors and like favorite like
Supernatural and Ritualistic Themes
00:46:26
Speaker
Movies in this like specific genre and like sub-genre even are all from like they like reference or like do stuff similar to them and stuff, but um I Don't know. I I would say my best my best guess is He's just a lawful evil character. He mo rules and laws according to Satan And that's what it is. And that's why he's, but he's evil. So he's like, he's doing what he's supposed to do and what is right in his evil fucked up view and stuff. And getting caught was a part of, was a seven esque plan of like getting caught so he could reunite with ah Lee again and talk to her one more time. Yeah. before he, spoiler alert, smashes his fucking face on the fucking table and kills himself right in front of her. and Following that major spoiler is just like insane. like That's obviously a major spoiler in the movie, but it's also apparent for us to be able to kind of break this down to even just like remotely get around anything logically about the movie. It's like when that happens and this is going to back to like your perspective about his character and the whole aspect of like, you know, what's his purpose and motivation and all this kind of stuff. And then it goes back to like sort of the the character design, like of what he's sort of done to himself to kind of make himself more like a porcelain doll almost. yeah And so the dolls are like this major factor and we can get more into that But him and this may help as we get into the doll conversation But right does this this is where the movie kind of breaks because it is a moment that puts the audience and the characters into a new world because you have theer the The killer is caught and now we're trying to understand the why a little bit more. Yeah as he's talking
00:48:09
Speaker
what you are expecting is sort of some rhyme or reason or expectation. But in reality, all he's just putting out is like, you know, I miss you. This meant so much to me. It's all these, these deep and sort of convoluted emotions. And then he goes right into just like his like insanity where he kind of just like goes down that rabbit trail and he just can't find his way back. And then at the end, it's just hail Satan. Boom. <unk> exactly I think that's I think that's a part of it too is is he is he like I feel like I don't know like this is super weird like thing but like I just feel like when he smashes his faces and stuff it's like he was like letting I don't know he kind of just off the top of my head kind of a weird thing but it feels right in the moment so I'll get your opinion um so it's like he makes himself look like a doll
00:49:06
Speaker
He uses dolls to do his murder stuff. And again, we'll get into the actual making of the dolls, like the little brain ball and stuff here in a minute. um but
00:49:16
Speaker
It's like, did he make himself a doll because he is a tool of Satan and stuff. And like he would, when he would do certain things, was he letting like in his mind, you know, cause it's not really, I don't know. it's There is some supernatural elements going on in the movie and stuff, which again, with the dolls and like the super lynching part, like there's something ethereal and extra worldly going on. and without a doubt, in my opinion. like There's no way there's not. you know um and There's one specific shot that tells me there's something going on, which we'll get to in a second. There's really one like half a second shot that I'm like, the paranormal or like supernatural or something weird is definitely happening because of it. um like He's a conduit of Satan, it seems like, and he's like like a doll. like you know like Oh, dolls get possessed by ghosts and stuff. like You have Annabelle and stuff based on a true story and stuff. He's like, so I'm going to look more like a doll so I can be like
00:50:07
Speaker
like controlled by Satan and be like his little puppet and stuff. Yeah. I think it's interesting what you say. It's like he goes down that rabbit hole of like insanity at the end and like smashes his face in and stuff. I feel like like, you know, that could be, you know, Satan, you know, always like pull tricks on people when he like makes deals with them and stuff and everything. And he's like, he like lets him, he like taps into him again real quick. And it's like, okay, tell her all this. And uh, uh, long leg is like, yeah, hell yeah. Like this is great. All right. Now what? And he's like, And now I'll see you, I'll see you down here. And he's like, like, this is a conversation having his mind. He's like, wait, what, what do you mean? I'll see you down. He's like, smash, smash, smash. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, all right. Like, I feel like it could have been like Satan's like, okay, you've done what I wanted you to do to make this whole fucked up situation happen. So you are taken off of the board. Like, that's off the dome. Just a thought right now. I just had because of like, why does he look like a doll besides the fact that he makes dolls? And it's like, does he see him? Yeah. as a doll or a puppet of Satan because he is lawfully, evilly following this path that Satan has laid out before him. I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of... Yeah, I'm just trying to find the motivation for why and stuff to like back up.
00:51:20
Speaker
like So I feel like I'm still trying to answer your question of like, why is he like this? Like, why not? Yeah, and stuff. But so there's references on the birthday on the birthday party murders website, actually, that actually have excerpts from a book called The Golden Bow, which is like dealing particularly in magic, um black magic, but also primarily like with ritualistic magic. And it's all like about the focus of sort of manifesting certain things. Yeah, yeah elements of being and self and yeah, and that it ties into things like sort of like ventriloquism and things like that. So it's Oh, for sure. Yeah. So I think there's elements like obviously, you wouldn't be able to necessarily get that connection without going to the website versus like, what do we just see on the movie? And like, you're saying like, smashing his face is like,
00:52:09
Speaker
something that then ties into um the other element that sort of added in fairly early in a way where at first it doesn't like even the trailers and then the first half half of the movie, you think it's a demonic spirit, at least I did like this, like, Yeah, it definitely felt like he calls himself Longlegs because that's like one of the like people who work, like are one of like the like kind of like a hereditary thing, like a paymon kind of thing. like yeah yeah like Yeah. It definitely felt like that going into the movie with what we knew so far with the trailer and stuff. I completely agree. Longlegs is like a paymon and that's why he calls himself that because he is
00:52:51
Speaker
the the physical representation in the, like, on our plane of existence, like, long legs, the, like, general of Satan or whatever, and stuff like that. So I can agree with that. That's definitely what it felt like. And like, maybe that's thought but that's what he thought he was, and like, maybe that... is what he was going for like maybe he like dubbed himself the name long legs as like a new general of satan because like magic like real world magic like with a k not like card trick magic with the c like little sleight of hand like stuff yeah magic with the k um like so like wicca druidry like
00:53:27
Speaker
anything like that um is it all boils down to um like perception plus ritual equals reality. So if you perceive the world to be a certain way and you do certain rituals, you can um kind of like the matrix, like you can change the world around you if you adhere to those things. So like he was definitely doing some kind of magic. And like, again, it's like, well, whether it's real or not, We don't really know. I think it is because of this certain shot that we're going to talk about in a second that relates to walls so we can finally have that conversation. Cause I'm still a little, like, I know it's a part of the ritual, but like how yeah like and stuff, like maybe there isn't a definitive answer, but I want to hear your thoughts on it. But, um, so like, he's, he's definitely doing some kind of a really ritualistic thing that he, somehow he got the perception that Satan is real and I need to work for him.
00:54:21
Speaker
this is the ritual he wants me to do so i can work for him so this is why i'm doing it it's lawful evil and everything like that so that's really interesting that on the website there is a specific book that talks about ritualistic magic because it's literally all about manifestation it's like well Like, you perceive the world this way, you want something, you perceive the world this way, you do a ritual to it, you will that will help push you towards the goal that you want. His goal is yeah obviously inherently evil and bad, not good, he's killing fucking people. And manifest an idea. Exactly, physically manifesting it by thinking about it and perceiving things in that way and thinking about it in that way, but and also physically doing something to make it happen.
00:54:59
Speaker
You know, most people burn candles and say a little spell and like do stuff like that, burn some incense. Like that's, you know, what most people do. He murdered young girls and replaced them with dolls and stuff with little weird brain balls and stuff like that. Technically, yeah, but like, I mean, technically, I don't think, I don't think he actually kills anyone. Like, and then that's the whole aspect of the investigation is they were just like, yeah you know, they're questioning back and forth is like, so wait a minute. Like he's not the killer, right but he's, because they were talking earlier on about how, you know, the killings that are happening are with usually in this sort of like, um, the nuclear family and the father is actually the one who's sort of just like, he's the one doing the killing. apps Yeah. He, but they make a bunch of family murders happen, which is usually predominantly like, like family annihilators, uh, like are predominantly.
00:55:47
Speaker
the father of the family takes out everybody in the house himself and stuff like that um that happens all the time yeah and they were just sort of questioning like so how is this working and because that was probably there was a major reason because he probably was basically at none of the crime scenes up until the point where he was able to give the letter so that's when you get into the whole aspect of learning about the dolls because That's introduced on this, on a level that I think is meant to give you an understanding of the dolls when you don't know quite yet that they are dolls. Right. Because there's this like, what is almost like seemingly like a creature, there's flashbacks to Lee Harker's past that have to do with her family home life that involves this like,
00:56:35
Speaker
what we find out later is just a doll. But the way the perception of it through her memory is that there's a spirit, a demonic spirit attached to the doll yeah because it looked like through the trailer, I was like, this looks like either like grandma is just completely bad shit crazy. Yeah. Or something's been brought back from the dead. And it's like in a black veil, like for a Yeah, the thing you sent me on Instagram right before we started recording, like waiting for me waiting for my friend to it's really like that demonic looking thing and stuff. and yeah But like, that's that is in the doll, but it's also somehow tied to the girls and stuff like a little girl specifically and stuff like, I don't i still don't really fully understand that but i i would say just to wrap up like his motivation and stuff is a lawful evil magic ritual for satan and because he could just have the if he was just wanting to be a serial killer and it didn't have anything to do with any kind of like supernatural element and stuff he can just make all the the e somehow could just make all these paranormal or these uh
00:57:40
Speaker
family annihilations happen, but he leaves a letter because he wants people to know that they're related, and that there is a purpose and stuff, and that you can find out what's happening if you pay attention enough and stuff. and like he like He literally goes into Lee's house and leaves a very specific thing that's like, here's how you read all the ciphers and stuff. like He wants her to figure it out. and yeah like that's ah like the It's like a closing of the rich day like like her finding it and figuring out what's happening and stuff and like him like killing himself like in the interrogation room was like the end of the ritual for whatever reason yeah it definitely it all comes to fruition at that point so so now we'll get let's get into the dolls and the reason that i know that there is supernatural definitely a hundred percent supernatural elements into this movie is when lee goes to confront her mom
00:58:32
Speaker
yeahre like Okay, we have to some questions like we're gonna ask her and stuff and then she gets looks outside and she sees her mom Pop the the other female um ah and and a preface in car oh go ahead yeah A preface to what you're saying for listeners too is also the aspect that they when they figure they figure out on a very direct level that lee harker has a connection to the long legs killer yes via um the only sort of quote unquote surviving victim of long legs who's in an insane asylum oh yes that's right yes yes yes that's the element that ties into the detective the fbi agents having an understanding that lee harker has a connection to um basically
00:59:18
Speaker
There's a trail that they follow. It's another element of the case in which they know that there's potentially one surviving victim and they've been committed. So they go to visit this person and it's a girl. And apparently she had seen long legs as a little girl as well. And he was a Kiernan Shipka. I'm just now realizing as I look through the, I have the IMDB opens fucking Kiernan Shipka. I had, I had no idea. I was like, she seems familiar, but like, which soak, which in my opinion is one of those things. It's like great performance, great, great hair, makeup, and costume and stuff. Cause I was like, I know her, but I don't know what, who that is. And I'm just like, that's until the end. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That was great. Um, but anyway, yeah, they basically go there and she talks to them and they talk about long legs basically. Um, and you know, basically she was borderline becoming a puppet for long legs as well for these killings.
01:00:15
Speaker
and then somehow survived and was able to go and to hold it. But then they go there because supposedly Long-Wigs visited her while she was there and signed his name as Lee Harker. They were like, what the hell? like like yeah like She's like, do you require IDs? And he's like, and I love that. That was like one of the only like like funny moments and it was, ah She, uh, Lee asked the like director of the place, like, Oh, do you require IDs for people to come visit people and stuff? And he's like, that's a really good idea. And then like, and like her and like, uh, agent Carter player underwood, they kind of like just look at each other like, what the fuck? Like, why?
01:00:59
Speaker
It's one of those, it's like one of those making fun of the whole ass, like the era, you know, not on cell phones, no one can really call each other. And then it's just like, Oh, you want to go see a patient inside the same area? Really, really fucking creepy dude wants to come see this girl who was the only living survivor that we know of right now from long legs and stuff. And you could totally be him. Sure. Just sign right here. We are yeah, that's a weird name. Anyway, like go ahead go talk to her price Go talk to her unsupervised like, you know, like exactly so I do think that is like a quick like of like comedic like commentary on like How shit was not run very well and no security was super lax across the board Back in the day something think people could just do get away with shit like this oh Yeah, but I thought that was hilarious. But yes her talking to her is
01:01:48
Speaker
super, super awesome and stuff, because then also um we find out that um she, her character's name, Kiernan Shipia's character, listen, the asylum is Carrie. She, because they like, they know that something is coming up on the 14th and stuff, like a kill, like they're like, oh, like a kill should be coming soon based on like the pattern of the upside down triangle and everything. And then they find the go to her childhood home where the barn is, and they find the doll of her. And the guy dissects it. And he's like, Oh, also this brain, like, you know, like he says, like the guy, the doctor, like, he's like, Oh, yeah, this is weird. And he like puts it up to it. And it like makes a bunch of weird noises and stuff. And then he's like, could have sworn it was saying like, my ex wife's name or something the other day. But how do working long hours like a really off the cuff like super quick comment about he's like yeah I was definitely hearing specific stuff related to me when listening to this but I'm probably just overworked and tired right now ha anyway it's like okay hold on what I was like I was like no follow-up questions about that you're not gonna be like what do you mean like it like you know i mean yeah completely blow past it but then agent ah Carter says like well I want you to pop it he's like we can tell there's nothing inside of it and he's like well why I want you to pop it up and see what happened Carrie jumps out the window
01:03:10
Speaker
but on the day yeah because that brain of her doll is severed. yeah well So she jumps she gets up to the roof of the asylum and jumps off, even though she was doing decently well, apparently. like She was like you know she's still in the institution asylum, whatever. It was like mostly okay, but then she gets visited by long legs and then they cut the brain ball open. And she jumps off the building on the day that they thought something was going to happen. So he finishes that job by doing that. Yeah. And that's after long legs kills himself, I think. Yes. Right. yeah I believe so. Yeah. I think that he tells her like right then and there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Um, but, um, so then she goes, the, uh, So here she sees her mom in like a nun outfit kill the other FBI agent who also looks like a porcelain doll because she has very high cheekbones and stuff and like and everything like she like ah the actress like kind of looks like a porcelain doll in herself which I thought was like also kind of like are you is this on purpose like kind of a thing like I don't know like
01:04:21
Speaker
I was wondering why they went back because this is just probably me forgetting they decided at some point that they needed to go that she needed to go that Lee Harker Lee had to go back and talk to her mom again to talk to her mom because It's it's a I believe, I could be wrong, um but I believe it's she finds the picture and she shows of long legs. This is the guy, this is the guy. And Agent Carter is like, okay, well, you need to go talk to your mom about this visitor because they cause he's like, your mom reported a creepy visitor coming.
01:04:57
Speaker
Oh, in the night, like like at one time when you were a kid, when you were around your ninth birthday and stuff, like you should probably go talk to her about that if you're like, because she because Lee's like, she finds the Polaroid she took yeah in her like childhood home and like that, ah that like trunk. And um he's like, you want me to put a all points bulletin, like an APB for this guy, like you're that positive. And she's like, I'm a hundred percent positive. Like this is, there's no way it's not like, look at this fucking, like, like, of course it's him. Like, yeah and then he's like, okay, you need to go back and talk to your mom again. And then that's why.
01:05:31
Speaker
And then it's after, but then she goes and talks to long legs and kills himself. And then her and the other FBI agent roll up and she's like, the FBI agent and who drove her is like, um, her name is agent Browning is like, do you want me to go with you? And she's like, no, just hang back. Like you'll probably be easier if I can just get her to come out being like, Hey, we just need to take you down to ask questions about stuff. Um, I think that's what it is because the first time she goes there is asking about a visitor too. So I don't know why the second time if it's if that's the same time. She has like an inkling like at something like she like some of the things are flashing back since like Long Legs goes into Lee Harker's house and leaves the letter and then it's the book of Revelation and she remembers her like hyper religious mom going back home.
01:06:20
Speaker
put linking together the stranger who visited her as a kid, vaguely remembering that with the Bible verse, and then now this long legs killer just coming into her house and leaving a note that's very pointing back to her past. Yeah, I think it was... Yeah, no, I think I am wrong. I think that's the first time she goes. This is because of the picture. I think. Exactly. No, because she finds the picture. Yeah, that's what she goes. After, once she sees the photo evidence, she says, oh, this did happen. But then they find him. Yeah, very easily at the bus stop and then he kills himself and he's like you need to go talk to your mom right now and stuff like kind of That's okay. So it's a combination of of like all of that um but uh So she goes she kills her and she like goes out back and she's like, oh what the fuck mom like because it's like she almost goes downstairs because downstairs is open which she couldn't get to and Yes, we have to talk about that one because that bothers me a lot. Oh yeah. That bothers me a lot. Yeah. Because like the first time she goes to the house where as an audience introduced to the house, the mom is basically a hoarder. She lives up by herself and and she's clearly not okay. Like she's she's some kind of not okay and stuff. She's still in home watching like a 90s version of the 700 Club just like dialed in to like worship mode. Yeah, and that's whatever it is. And it's obviously contentious point in their mother-daughter relationship. right And that's apparent how they kind of act with each other in the same room. And then but going back there, we're given this sort of like mystery room where she it's near it's attached to the kitchen. There's a room and the door is locked and there's multiple locks on it. I don't know how to get in there. Oh, great. And then there's a set of keys. Oh, maybe.
01:08:04
Speaker
and then And then she leaves. And then when she comes back after getting the photograph evidence and all of that, there's the point with the mother where she kind of just divulges the entire story. Exactly what happened to Lee as a kid with long legs first showing up, presenting the doll and kind of basically, um, what do you call it? Like just manipulating the mother and to just yeah fully believing his whole Well, yeah, but she go she starts to go down there, but then she hears the gunshot. And so she goes to the window and she sees her mom dressed in a nun outfit. And she's like, what the fuck? So she just abandons it. She doesn't go downstairs. She never goes downstairs. she goes and so I have a question. She does go downstairs.
01:08:47
Speaker
when we'll get to in a second. So what happens is this bothers me. This bothers me a lot. Let's go downstairs because this is what happened. She does go downstairs. I remember this now. She looks this way. She ends up downstairs because, um, so she goes out in the back and her mom's there with the shotgun and in front of her is Lee's doll. Yeah. She's like kind of talking to her mom and like that's when she like kind of divulges some stuff like all that stuff and then she shoots the doll and it blows the head up and blows the brain ball out and like breaks the brain ball and there's a very quick shot of Lee where a like ethereal black mist comes out behind her head and then she like gets really loopy and faints.
01:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, that is the moment that I'm like, okay, there is something super like mate like so his ritual is real like this is a real thing that's happening and stuff and um And then um, she wakes up in Uh, mom likes his bed, which is in the basement and that was that and that's the whole uh, the man downstairs stuff He's the man downstairs. He talks about the man downstairs as as ah Satan when he first meets her and we finally get that like full conversation of when he first meets her. He's talking about the man downstairs to the mom. He's obviously talking about Satan, but then he becomes the man downstairs in their house at the same time.
01:10:21
Speaker
Because as yeah facts of um when he's like, okay, I'm not going to kill your daughter if you do this for me, kind of thing. And so she goes rep representing a nun from the local church being like, oh, you've won a prize from the church. Here's a doll that looks exactly like your daughter and stuff. And then the doll makes it every and it all makes the night grow crazy and the dad kills everybody. And then she cleans and then she like takes in, like she plants the doll and leaves the long legs. No, like that's what the mom does. to keep Lee alive and stuff. But there's a scene when he's making the doll for Carrie that like super Silence of the Lands-esque scene where it's in the basement the and the doll is like you see the doll looking in the mirror and then he's like in its face and like he goes to put the blanket over it. We see that scene again but this time we see it long enough to where the mom comes downstairs in her nun outfit to like collect the doll and stuff. And then Lee goes up and then Lee wakes up there and goes up
01:11:20
Speaker
out and like it doesnt I don't think it explicitly shows that but I think that's what the intention is is like well if the mom's coming downstairs to get the doll like it's and like he is upstairs like a asleep as a kid or like whatever like and stuff like he was living in her basement the entire time making the doll yeah and the mom has the one going out and delivering the dolls and everything like that and the brain ball was actually somehow directly tied to the intended target and of the girls and stuff. Exactly. like Yeah. And so that that has to do with like, what we were talking about earlier, I think a lot with the manifestation stuff, because one element of this movie we should definitely talk about that pops in a few times, a couple times much stronger than others. But there's imagery that apparently is in one of Oz Good-Perkin's previous films, The Black Coat's Daughter. um I haven't seen it, but friends have told me about it. because And it's the imagery of the Baphomet, which is the yeah physical sort of representation of the demonic being of Satan. oh for sure And so the Baphomet specifically is like this sort of like characteristic of the spiritual sort of supernatural representation of Satan that manifests in ah in a realm versus like latching onto someone, which we could
01:12:39
Speaker
theorize that it latches on to long legs or Paul like that who was this guy and then who was already kind of prone to whatever like attachment from Satan and all of that and then that latched on to him and then this whole aspect in which these little balls that it's talked about from the mother, I think, where she talks about, you know, the doll making process where he does put that sort of metal ball inside the heads of the dolls is she mentions it's sort of voiceover where she says he basically put his essence into it. Right. And it's not so much long legs essence because he's not even there when the dolls are in the house and those are the houses the murders take place in. It's almost like you're ritual it's a ritual manifestation of this, like,
01:13:25
Speaker
physical thing that has latched to it, this demonic spirit that is then put into
Demonic Dolls and Influence
01:13:31
Speaker
it all. Cause like when we see the, when she talks about the, um, the Carrie's family farm incident, the Camara family farm incident and stuff, like we see the little girl takes the doll out and she like moves it, like un, unveils the like doll from a thing. And being the doll, we see that entity. like sitting on the couch and like inside. They're just like, oh, what a nice lovely little doll. But it's like, so yeah, it's like, they're not allowing a doll, they're allowing it in because it's in disguise as like a doll, a life-sized doll of whatever the little girl target is. And then yeah and then obviously like there's some kind of like,
01:14:15
Speaker
There's some kind of a weird connection to that. um like the The daughters have some kind of a like subconscious like attraction to the doll and like wanting to be with the doll and like play with the doll and stuff because when we get to Agent Carter, when he comes over, or because Lee comes to her birthday party, which like It was so crazy to me that I didn't even like put that together. She was like, oh, do you want to come to my birthday party? And the mom's like, we'll ask her. And she's like, yeah, I'll be there like whatever. And it's like, wait, fuck. He's got a little girl and her birthday is coming up. And it's like about around the date. And the 14th. I was like, what the fuck? How did I not catch that? I was so mad at myself when they said him. Because he's like, oh, Lee, like, thanks for coming over and stuff. We're about to open this present that the church gave us. And her mom's there with the doll and stuff and everything.
01:15:05
Speaker
and like the daughter is just like sitting next to the doll and just like playing with its hair and like so obsessed with it. And then Agent Carter is like, he's like, time to cut the cake. And she's like, Oh, okay, we're gonna go cut the cake. And then we'll be right back. And he goes, I'll be right back. Like he's like, he goes, and hearing kills are inside and like, Lee is like trying to get the little girl to come and she like, like pulls her away from the doll and then the little girl like breaks free from her and goes right back to sitting next to the doll even though you can hear the mom being murdered in the next room. Yeah that was definitely the element that bothered me that I was like what's wrong with you? yeah It's like Lee what are you doing and just pop pop your mom don't like go stop that murder bro like what are you doing?
01:15:49
Speaker
pop like Blair underwood pop them on seems like she was uh don't worry she does pop Blair underwood but the mom gets killed first it seems like she's at that point like her childhood fear of long legs and stuff. It's like she's hyper focused on saving the daughter. You know what I mean? like yeah Which i think I think does make sense narratively. like I think it makes sense that she would like be focused on saving the daughter and stuff. Because obviously she doesn't really have much love for moms at this point. like You know what I mean? like Because her mom is sitting there letting it happen and stuff. and like
01:16:25
Speaker
like but that's we're also kind of Like if we bounce back to like when she has Lee's doll and the mom shoots it, it's like, what is that? Like, and to me, it's like, like the parent, the mother is so far gone that there's maybe a part of her that still wants to protect her daughter. And she sees shooting this doll is the only yeah potential to do that. Let's say something about like long legs is free now or something. And it's like, so like, So it's kind of confusing to me now, though, because it's like, so if Longlegs is free and she can shoot this doll and that will release Lee, yeah, like potentiality of like killing herself or something like, and like, like, uh, uh, what's your name? Carrie did, like, because he's still around and still has like a presence that can make these things to work. So he's gone. They get rid of that one.
01:17:22
Speaker
Why does the mom go through with the final Carter family? Like, like, why does she, why does she keep doing it at that point? Like, yeah, I that i mean, that is like a major it's almost like a big third act question. Yeah. Cause you can write yourself into a corner and then not figure out the best way out. yeah because and That is something weird. Well, cause for me, my only like explanation for that would be like, so Is it like long legs dies? She frees Lee by shooting the doll and breaking the brain ball. And then does she just have to do the one more and then it's over and like the ritual is officially over because it's like, oh, long or is she supposed to carry on the mantle?
01:18:18
Speaker
And this is somehow if she doesn't, Lee will still die somehow. You know what I mean? Because because we know we now know the supernatural is real in some aspect and stuff. We've seen the demon, yeah we've confirmed that the demon's real, the smoke coming out of her head and stuff. Like there's obviously something like, is it like, okay, now she is in charge. Now, now like the mantle has been moved from long legs to the mom. and stuff because she obviously knows how to get in and out without leaving a trace and everything like Longleg served his purpose he's kind of old and they're on to him and stuff like but now if we maybe we can muddy up like you know satan's master plans like muddy up the waters by having it happen again and continue happening but Longlegs is dead so who's his accomplice and stuff and like like it could be like a creating more chaos kind of a thing after the fact
01:19:04
Speaker
And like that's where we could say that, okay, there's like Lee Harker's doll and Lee Harker and the mom and she shoots the doll. Right. And clearly it shoots the brain aspect. Yes. And that whole dark spirit bakes out of the doll. Yeah. And then it also leaves Lee because that doll is a reparation of her, which is sort of like a voodoo ask type of magic. Definitely voodoo magic kind of in there. Yeah. And then with that, the spirit potentially at that point only had one of their hosts to go to. Right. And it was the mom. Like I remember there's like, okay, so when that one door that leads to the basement finally is open and unlocked and Lee goes to it and then she hears the gunshot, she opens the door, but she doesn't go down and she, run but as she turns and runs away, you see the Baphomet spirit.
01:19:55
Speaker
right there in the door. Oh, fuck, really? I missed that. Yeah. Like my friend didn't see it there and I mentioned it. I was just literally just like, did you see it like in the doorway? Like it was standing right in the doorway. And I was like, it freaked me out because those things, yeah it's like hereditary. When you see the mom in the very left frame, like climbing the wall. Oh, yeah. That's shit like that's terrifying. so um but so yeah when it comes to like that ending part it's like maybe the spirit had basically nowhere else to go so it fully manifested in the mom but my question is at what point did Blair Underwood's character um his family what at what point did they receive the doll did she did the mom bring the doll over there i think the mom i think the well when i got from it was the mom
01:20:44
Speaker
brings the doll over and then she says she has to stay to make sure everything goes according to plan. And she's always covered in blood. So I think it's like the same day she brings the doll over is the same day that the dad, like it's like a, it's that fast kind of a thing. Okay. Cause I felt, this is my theory. This is a weird, interesting theory. So Lee Harker from the beginning, like we've already kind of met her. She's already kind of strange and she seems like traumatized by something. Yeah. And just a little scared Lee Harker is traumatized. No. I would never be able to tell after all she's experienced. yeah So we get that sense of her personality, but I feel like it's amplified the first time she meets player Underwood's character's daughter. Yeah. And she goes into her bedroom. yes And I'm like, she's acting even ruder than normal. oh yeah or phrase like When he's like, Oh, Hey, you you got to come meet my, my kid and my and my wife. Cause you drove me home. Cause I was drunk. Like you have to, you have to like, that's like, she straight up is like, is that an order? And he's like, yes. And she's like, my theory okay yeah my theory is that the doll was already there and Lee sensed it. Like his presence, because his essence, his presence is like put onto the doll. And I felt like the mom had already delivered the doll to that house.
01:22:02
Speaker
But it was a present. now Oh, maybe it was like, yeah, it was like, ah oh, you've won this. And they're like, well, her birthday is coming up. And so we'll wait. She'll open it on that day. And the mom is like, oh, well, I'll come back on her birthday. And like, I'll be here and stuff. Because she always takes the in in like the montage of it. She always takes the box back. Obviously, the doll yeah there, but she always takes the she's always leaving the house covered in blood with the box and stuff. So may or may. No, yeah, it's Yeah, that's the that's see that's the weird stuff is like when you're messing with time And you go back and these elements happen. It's like, well, wait a minute that that's always my thing is like where where's everyone at?
01:22:46
Speaker
at a given time to see how elements are are they working together? are that it' thing that I'm also trying to think because in the montage it seems like she delivers the doll and like within four or five hours she's walking out of there with the box covered in blood especially you the first one especially for the first one I don't think she would have I don't think she would have come back you know what I mean like yeah to make sure it happened and like I would also How would she know? How would she know when it was going to be there? So I feel like for the first one, she had to do that. But then she knew that they would wait to open it because her birthday was coming up. And every yeah well I guess all their birthdays were coming up and stuff. Do you think that montage element with her covered in blood was just in her mind's eye, but that she wasn't literally in real time when the murder took place, she wasn't actually there.
01:23:37
Speaker
So she's part of it is part of it is I think she has to be there because she's the one that leaves the letter. There's no physical trace of anybody being there besides the family. And um because she's where and I feel like she's dressed up like as a nun to be disarming, you know, and be like you want something from the church, but also it keeps her hair. from falling out and leaving like like that kind of DNA. ever A trace. A trace, good stuff. Because like even though we're in the 90s, DNA is still a thing. They could like have that hair and stuff, but also they would never even get her or consider her. So even if they did find a hair, it wouldn't matter you know because they wouldn't have anything to reference because she's not, like, unbeknownst to them, like you like you're like as far as they think that she is not a criminal in any shape form or anything, she's basically an invalid who lives in her hoarder house.
01:24:26
Speaker
and stuff. So like she doesn't do shit. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. And her daughter's in the FBI. There's no way. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's easy to kind of like push that off in my mind and like in a way that I think makes sense. But um yeah i I would say that
01:24:42
Speaker
I feel like it's also another 7S kind of a thing where it's like, we know the FBI agent, Agent Carter, he won't let his daughter open that until them. But also, so because I was kind of thinking about it. like I was noticing it while watching it. So she Lee is obviously super uncomfortable going and meeting them, like being literally ordered to go inside and meet them. And they walk up and they're super fucking weird. The daughter's really weird. The mom's blue weird. He's semi normal, but like once they're in the house, they're all really weird. And like, at first I was like, is that just, are we seeing it?
01:25:26
Speaker
from her perspective and she's su like is it uncomfortable because we're seeing this from her perspective and this is how she is seeing the interaction that's happening where it's like they're being they're saying all the nice cordial normal things but they're standing weird and saying them with some kind of a weird inflection or tone because that's how she's perceiving it yeah i think it's because i i feel like i agree with you now like thinking about him i think it's because the doll is already there and so it's already starting to have its presence like affect them and it doesn't affect the dad agent carter when he's not there because he's like hey it's super late we're going to get a drink and she's like well i don't drink and it's super late and he's like cool so i'm gonna drink and you're gonna tell me what you found and they stay out super late and he's just hammering down like straight whiskies and stuff because he i feel like that's a very very
01:26:20
Speaker
ah Could be ive I think now I'm convinced I've been doing our conversation I've convinced myself with the help of your opinion on that that the doll being there He didn't want to go home because he knew shit was weird at home, but he didn't know this supernatural stuff was real because he straight up says at one point something about like super the supernatural and like all this fucking shit like being stupid and he like blows up at lee when she like when long legs like kills himself and he like me i feel like he i remember him making some kind of a reference to like like paranormal, like a Satan, like all this bullshit. Like, and so as he's like walking, angry, that like long legs, like killed himself and they can't like, you know, try him and like put him in prison for the rest of his life or like execute him and like everything he got, he got out by killing himself. But I feel like I remember him mentioning like something about like
90s Setting and Atmosphere
01:27:10
Speaker
all this like religious bullshit. So like he doesn't believe. So he's like, things are just weird at home. I don't want to go home. yeah he's He's a complete realist. And so having in that situation, he's just like, it doesn't really affect him. But when he's in the house, he's super weird when he introduces the family and the whole family is super weird. That's, i I think, I hope that's what it is. That's my new headcanon because I was like, I was like, oh, so this is how she perceives the family, like as like new for weird stuff and like she's a super weird person, maybe on the spectrum a bit and stuff. And so this is how she's perceiving it because she's super uncomfortable.
01:27:43
Speaker
And now it's in my, and again, my head can't, it's a combination of the two. She's super yeah because that's just how she is. That's how this this character lives and perceives the world. But also they are genuinely being fucking weird and creepy because this presence has been in their house for like the last few days and stuff. Cause I don't, he definitely didn't mention it, but also he isn't the kind of person to mention. Hey, we got a gift from the church, you know what I mean? Like, and stuff like for her birthday party, you know, like yeah he wouldn't mention work and stuff, but I think that totally tracks. Like, I don't think he would. Why would he? You know what I mean? Oh yeah. what one you don't You know, especially back in the nineties and stuff, like it was definitely like you don't talk about politics and religion and like sex at work, like and stuff like that. Like, you don't, look I don't think he would mention like your church members and we got a free present and stuff like, and. and Exactly.
01:28:31
Speaker
it wouldn't have meant anything until the end because we don't know that we don't find out until the end. That's how the mom gets the ah the dolls inside the house. That's how the dolls get inside the house and everything. and so Yeah, for sure. so I'm going to say the dolls make 100% more sense. They make so much more sense now. yeah I think you've nailed it on the head that that's what it is. It's like the It's like the, the vehicle, like to get the demon into the house to drive the dads insane and commit a family annihilator a situation. And ah her mom is just there to watch it go down, make sure it's good and clean up everything she needs to leave the note, take the box.
01:29:16
Speaker
and wait for the next mission and stuff like that of a thing. All to keep Lee alive because that's the deal she struck with with long legs who yeah may or may not just be straight up Satan himself because he's always talking about the man downstairs and then he becomes the man downstairs like is that part of it you know what I mean like is is he so far deep into into it that he is not even a person anymore so like hey i don't care if i get caught nothing matters anymore you know what i mean like is he already yeah like it's like is that part of why he think caught so i think it's just really like he's totally enamored and taking control by the the spirit and that's the baphomet too that's like that's Yeah, that's the classic image of like the two fingers up, the two fingers down of like the horned, ah like the horned creature, the horned goat. Yeah, the horned goat with on like a human, ah usually like female human body, like kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is like... Yeah.
01:30:14
Speaker
as above so below like kind of a thing and everything so like I think that definitely plays a huge part a huge part in it for sure because obviously it's like it's like the perfect horror movie for they said it in the 90s because it's like if this movie came out in the 90s the satanic panic would have gotten much worse it like ended in the like into late 90s is when they say it's when it kind of ended because there's a specific episode of a I can't remember the title of of ah the x-files remember the title of the episode, but there's like where there's like
01:30:49
Speaker
a it's like a high school and it's like the principal the vice principal and a couple of the teachers are doing satanic rituals to like oh yeah i know exactly which one you're talking about and that was and that came out and so if that was like the second or third season that would have come out like 1993 1994 and s scully specifically says because you know moulder he's like it's a satanic and that's happening like 100 i have no evidence to prove it yet but that's what's happening and scully's like That like the fbi we've run So many tests to disprove the satanic panic like that was like So it was already on the downtrend and stuff. So like if this came out like in 1994 like yeah yeah, and it took place and stuff this would have revved that shit right back up because this is a Purely satanic panic like the devil is real and people are scheming against to kill innocent people yeah for like seeming a reason and stuff um Which is why I love that it's set in the 90s and stuff like
01:31:44
Speaker
Yeah. everything It's like when you watch this movie, it's almost like as an audience member, you have to be, you have to be a molder and a Scully. Yes. And enjoy the movie. and tire Oh, a hundred yeah. Yeah. It's like, cause it's like, I know this isn't what Satanism actually is in the real world, but during satanic panic, this is what most people thought Satanism was. And this was shit out of people back then. I understand that Satanism are just secular secular lists. They just. they're they're atheists that think everybody should be able to do whatever they want without harming other people but they like to put a heavy metal twist on it and be like yeah Satan like that's all it is and stuff but in yeah in the in the 80s and 90s oh no no that shit was real as fuck and they were horrible that's the thing think about people like who have to market this movie or they're part of the creation of this movie. they oh yeah you know It's just like where the Conjuring movies you hear are like Omen movies, they do have priests come to set to bless the set. it's right There's a thing where it's like, okay, theoretically, if Neon decided, hey, part of our marketing thing, let's give out free dolls and take them to people's houses. It's like, you are the one.
01:32:54
Speaker
I would lose my goddamn mind. i said You wouldn't touch it. You'd be like, no way. That's the idea that could happen. I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't touch the box. I would like open it and see that it was a doll that looked like me or like Boston or something. And I would, I would call my buddy who has a shotgun. I'd be like, bring your shotgun here now. And he'd be like, why? And I'm like, just do it. And I would call the cops and be like I'm about to shoot this creepy doll in the head that just got here And they're gonna be like why I'm like just come here because somebody's gonna call that there's a shot in my neighborhood No, I would be like shoot this thing in the head. They just shoot it like fucking flamethrower The fuck just happened and I would explain and they'd be like, okay, you're kind of crazy Don't shoot guns in your yard anymore. and i like I won't unless this happens again, but also Here's the here's all take the evidence of this box, but I had to shoot it first take the but take it away and run tests on it, fingerprints and shit. Like, get it out of my mouth, dude. Oh my god, if they did that, because that's what happened with the... There was some handsome murders. Remember the clowns there? And like... Oh yeah. I didn't know that that was a viral marketing campaign for some shitty horror movie, well I don't know, I haven't seen the movie, but some indie horror movie ah about a clown.
Marketing Impact and Community Engagement
01:34:20
Speaker
That dude and but I had no idea that's what it was until like I heard it on like a podcast they were talking about like Clowns and like the horror aspect and like creepiness of like clowns and stuff and they like talking about that whole thing That's insane that like and then all of a sudden there's just people Just being like, I'm going to dress up like a clown and stand on the corner of a neighborhood with a knife. Like, oh, yeah, animal get the wrong person in a clown suit. and So if you wore a clown suit back then, when that was like at the height of that, somebody would have just shot you. yeah this does not work Just would have fucking popped you in the head and been like, how was I supposed to know? like You know, how was I supposed to? Like, that's insane. um But yeah.
01:35:03
Speaker
Outside of all the story and plot of the movie, atmosphere, cinematography, music, I think it was a very good blend. I think having talked about it with you, and and now I want to go back and read all of the ah birthday party, ah birthday party murders. 100% going and then go see the movie again. Yeah, exactly, dude. Dude, that's the thing. That's the thing about being in Chattanooga. like Apparently this didn't have as a super, super wide thing because I wanted to go see it like today or like on Thursday um instead of like trying to squeeze it in yesterday. Cause like Austin and I like had plans in the morning and then we were going to have some plans at night and stuff yeah and everything. And I was like, well, I was like, I got time to squeeze this movie and like, I have to see it. um But I had to squeeze it in then because it's not playing on, it plays tomorrow, but then like,
01:35:54
Speaker
and i There's no theater in Chattanooga playing it on Thursday. As of right now, I could double check because this was last week when I was checking, but like maybe they've gotten the slots and stuff. But like, if I could go see this again sometime on Thursday, I fucking would. I would see this movie. yeah you yeah We got to see it again. And I think honestly, I think I checked earlier today, it's like at 22 million. So it's already made so much money. Oh, they'll put it out. Yeah, they'll they'll leave it out. It'll pick up. Yeah. pick up ah For sure. It'll be great. the marketing will just keep expanding. Yeah. I got it. I got it. So, and that is the birthday murders.net is that website. So people can make sure. Yeah. I'll actually and ah double check that. Yeah. It's called. Yeah. The birthday murders.net. And it's all on there. And it even says right now.
01:36:41
Speaker
It literally says was there was there a new drop? Is there a new drop? It's like tune back in monday july 15th, which is today. Oh fuck It's crazy i'm gonna go to it right now just because I kind of want to see it the birthday Yeah, dude It's crazy. I think they added something towards the bottom where they added a new case I want to say oh fuck this is this is oh man this is such a great website for so many reasons one it's creepy as fuck but also because it's um it is such a throwback to shitty true crime and like UFO conspiracy websites from like the early 90s when this movie takes place and stuff god yeah this website looks like shit yeah tune back in monday july 15th that's today I mean look at the navigation panel on the website So i I I'm a fan of true crime, you know itself I don't ever go to these websites that have like the Like actual crime scene photos and stuff like and like read about it I watch the documentaries like the Netflix true crime documentaries like HBO like I'll watch and like show them briefly and and stuff but like just lingering like on these like images knowing that all of this is fake i'm like i could read through this website and it would be totally yes like you know what it means that's totally fine god that is such a beautiful website for the time period that oh there's a contact page info at the birthday murders dot.net friend of a friend
01:38:17
Speaker
Oh my God, there's an address you can send stuff to. You can send something to a friend of a friend at 3525 Potts Road, Colfax. ah What's WA? Is that Washington?
01:38:29
Speaker
Is it for the contact? Yeah, it's the actual address. 99111. What is WA state? I'm stupid. I'm not good at... Yeah, it is Washington. Okay. I'm not that stupid. I'll cut it out. I'll cut it out. It was Washington. I guess this does... I guess they... but Do talk about it being like up north. But um yeah, there is an addressed and because friend of a friend is uh Isn't that one of the things he says to lee at the very beginning when he meets? He's like, yeah, they who are you? And he's like i'm a friend of a friend Exactly. It's like in my imagination. He's saying a friend of a friend He's like i'm a friend of satan and satan's a friend to all of us wait a minute what he's going for Let's stand by for one second here standing by have we not google map this yet? Oh my god. Yeah three. Have you got it?
01:39:16
Speaker
I'm pulling it up. I don't think it's real. You don't think it's real. Well, it takes you to if you do the whole address, it takes you to the website. It takes you back, but then there's a whole Reddit thing. Yeah. Cause I'm on Google maps right now and I see the city of Colfax in Washington, but I don't see this specific address apparently does not exist. Oh, wow. So. Oh my God, hold up. Okay, so on this Reddit page, God, the marketing for this movie is insane. um So there is apparently at the bottom of the website, if you go to the homepage, I guess, or maybe the victims, there is a password protected. Oh my God. So so go to the homepage and then scroll all the way down.
01:40:13
Speaker
Oh no, no, those they're past their password protected. Yeah. Like all this info that's in here is password protected. Download this stuff, download it. And people have found and people on Reddit have found the password. That's terrifying. And the password the password is nine all all one word, all lowercase nine circles, we des descend, which the nine circles of hell is like, that's a reference book that she, that Lee looked at. And so, and it's like, if you like, yeah, cause it's like, Oh my God, that's so creepy because I have it here. And it's like, if you try to click on the text files, it's like password and stuff. I am not going to open that.
01:40:58
Speaker
Cause that's super scary to me and scary but also I know that this is a real thing. Oh my gosh, dude. Well, this is what we have to do is we're going to have to do a follow-up episode to talk about it after a second viewing and going through all of the lore because I feel like that's what makes this so much better is diving more thats into the lore. That's scary, dude. That's so fucking scary to me. Yeah, there's four different links you can click on that download different ah folders.
01:41:31
Speaker
that seem to have text information like text, uh, uh, in them that are password protected. And apparently the password is, um, nine circles. We descend, which is once again, yes don't type it in, don't type it in. Oh wait, hold on, someone's deciphered it. browserer named files all that yeah The files are named with numbers and it basically translates with the alphabet. Here's what I deciphered in order of every file. Oh God. Yeah, the decoded message is terrifying. Yeah, I'm just not, I'm not going to read that. I'm not going to say that out loud and put that into the ether. If you want to figure it out, you can Google it. I'm not going to. That's scary. um Okay. so ah
01:42:19
Speaker
at this point i I don't think there's much more to say about this movie if you can't tell this movie is really good and interesting and there's a lot of good lore there's so much to talk about because it's that's usually it's a great movie if like if it's super cut down the middle was just like when it When it's like super divisive as if is it really great or some people are relating it to this year's barbarian Which was also a very divisive movie. Yeah, it's like what more can you pull out of it? What more can you like? There's obviously so much more story involved with it So does it merit a sequel or does it merit? let's continue with the ARG basically is what it is the alternate reality game of
01:42:59
Speaker
the birthday murders website. like yes It's pretty hefty. yeah so i like i I like that it's like if you really want to know more about this, you got to read the website like and stuff. like I really like that. and like But at the same time, like I think the movie itself is amazing. and stands alone like like hey if you're like man i got like oh i wish there was more about this and stuff there is like there don't worry bud there's a and
Final Thoughts and Ratings
01:43:30
Speaker
that you can go and research but if you're like that movie was great i don't need anything else out of this
01:43:36
Speaker
then you can just watch the movie and you could be happy with that, I would say. hundred percent so i i And talking to you more about it, like i I love it. i it's one of It's one of my favorite movies I've seen so far this year. I enjoyed it more somehow just talking about it with you oh yeah um because there were those little areas in the film like from my sort of filmmaking lens that brought about a certain criticism of certain plot elements or how directions in which the story went. right But I think ultimately, that's what sort of makes for an engaging no movie is something to kind of make you question stuff. Oh, no, for sure. Yeah.
01:44:16
Speaker
This is definitely a movie that I think requires some discussion and stuff, which i love which is, in my opinion, some of the best kind of movie and the best kind of horror specifically. and yeah yeah like I hate roller coaster ride movies where it's just like, oh, that was scary. Anyway, like I'm done. like ah like no This one, i like I've been thinking about this movie. like all All yesterday, I was like, man, like this movie, like I can't wait to talk to Jonathan about it and stuff. And like, you definitely cleared up some stuff for me. And, um, and I feel like we just like through, I think we both had some realizations, like yeah talking and stuff, which I feel like this would be absolutely requires is like, the more you talk about it, the more you're like, wait a minute. Well, what about? And then you're like, Oh, okay. And it's like, well, whether you're right or not right or wrong, doesn't really matter. It's like, no Yeah, it gets you more out of it like either way so I don't know I would say everybody this is a I'm gonna give it Let's see out of stars. We'll do the five star rating. I'm gonna give it a um
01:45:20
Speaker
hmm i'm gonna give it a 4.5 star out of five am i gonna give it a full five yeah yeah just because i can say four i can say four yeah i'm uh i'm gonna say 4.5 just for i mean everything we talked about and stuff we don't need to go over it again like Some stuff I maybe didn't understand, but I understand better now, which I think is good. And that's why I'm adding the extra 0.5. It's like, well, I didn't fully understand it, but now that I've talked about it, I do. So we're going to go up. But the four is purely just from atmosphere acting, overall tone and mood and everything was just so fucking interesting. And like cinematography, production design, the elements of the filmmaking. Yeah, we're great. Incredible. So 4.5 for me, you said four, solid four for you.
01:46:07
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think especially after talking about this uh this movie with you oh yeah i definitely there's me and Maybe maybe we'll uh both go down the rabbit hole this uh, really fucking weird website and be like hey actually it's five youre like this is the best movie that's ever been made because of this so ah supplemental fucking uh website that they just had to make um, well, hell yeah, man, um We talked a lot longer than I thought we were going to. We're definitely rocking an hour and a half, hour 45 right now after I cut out all the bullshit at the beginning and stuff. I'm like, hey man, it's all good. I got a nice long eight hour drive up to Virginia tomorrow. It's like, oh, that is what it is. Well, it's only six o'clock. You'll be fine. I'll be all right. Go to bed. Good night. Go to bed right now. You'll be fine. yeah thanks again man go see this movie um talk about it with your friends read this fucking weird website if you're brave enough to download the stuff and use the password that they found on reddit and start deciphering shit that's great let me know what you find i don't think i'm gonna do that because that's a little too real for me i don't love that So let me know if that's good. I might read some of the stuff, but I don't think I'm going to get into the download stuff and use the password to get into all that shit. Or if you find a link, maybe on Reddit they have already figured out more and stuff and I'll check on there. I bet you one of those links is a video link and it's a long legs playing a guitar guitar that was in the background just all this horrific terrible creepy text and like these horrible images of stuff of his master evil plant and there's just one in there of the time he tried to play sweet child of mine by guns and roses and stuff and recorded himself doing it and it's like It's like he's not bad, but he's definitely like doing it a little slower than it's supposed to be. Like that would be so funny if they just dropped one of those in there. That would, that would make this movie five stars, a hundred percent, like a hundred percent, a hundred percent would be five stars if that was dropped in with all this weird, creepy shit. I mean, hey, put it on the bonus features. Let's see those. I know he, I know he plays guitar. I know he plays guitar. Uh, we saw it and he has a slash poster. So he loves guns and roses. It could happen.
01:48:32
Speaker
Indicator totally do that because he think it would be funny too because he's insane um in a good way. I love him um to yeah Give him ah give him an
Upcoming Projects and Conclusion
01:48:40
Speaker
award for this movie, please um or the costume designers like make a hair and makeup something um Yeah, appreciate you so much man. um Is there anything you want to plug? Like you're going to work on a movie and stuff. Is there anything you want people to pay attention to? Like or anything like what's going on? like I'm starting to do this like like hot hot ones thing where it's like, what do you got to plug like kind of thing? Yeah, pro promote your stuff. Like, hey, yeah what do you want to what do you want talk about? What's up? I mean, me, I'm just working in private right now on my own writing, so there's nothing really to announce for my stuff. But I am working on an indie horror film, ironically enough, given the topic of our conversation. That does involve a bunch of serial killers and wild people.
01:49:21
Speaker
And so we're actually going out for pickups right now. We're actually doing all the kill scenes like so it's gonna murder and blood. You have a hard weekend ahead of you while you're up there like just shooting. It's gonna be awesome. Staying with family, just family, drinking, making a movie and just like having a good old time you know. Um, but no, yeah, the movie's called lesions. I think it's coming out next year, 2025. Um, it's directed by my buddy written and directed or co-written and directed by my buddy, um, Cody Wilson. ah Um, so I'm location managing on the movie. Um, just cause the town in which we're filming, which also has a lot of crazy satanic panic is a place I'm very familiar with. And it's central Virginia, which Virginia, Tennessee sort of the South just has a lot of like dark places to film.
01:50:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. The south is, yeah south the southeast is scary. that Hell yeah. All right, so keep an eye out for Lesions. Let me know ah more stuff about that so I can like post it and like let people know as more stuff comes out about that. Lesions 2025, boy Jonathan's working on it, going up to work on those kill scenes this week. That's dope as hell. um One last time. Thank you so much, man, for talking about this. My favorite movie so far this year. Yeah, let's go. I would say, like, I'm doing part two is great, but I think I like that this movie is just more fun. A little more funny. But all right, y'all. We'll be back with more Bad Movie Debate. Follow on Insta at Bad Movie Debate. All one word. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. All that shit. All right. Well, peace, y'all. All right.