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Episode 695 - The Price Is Raw
1.3k Plays2 months ago
We're ranking the rawest moments in comics once again this episode, including when Dr. Doom turned into an action figure and Batman got broken.
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Transcript
Secret Wars and Crossover Legacy
00:00:00
Speaker
This week's episode of War Rocket Ajax is brought to you by Big Bad Toy Store. Go to tinyurl.com slash all caps bbtswra and that will be your referral link to Big Bad Toy Store from us, War Rocket Ajax. It's how you can get a bunch of great toys and let them know that War Rocket Ajax sent you. You'll hear more about Big Bag Toy Store a little later in the show.
00:00:29
Speaker
Gladys, I'm bored. What plaything can you offer me today?
00:00:39
Speaker
He's got one Rocket Ajax to bring back his body.
00:00:54
Speaker
Hello everybody, and welcome to War Rocket
Hosts Introductions and Animal Imagery
00:00:56
Speaker
Ajax. This is the internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast. We are your hosts. My name is Chris Simms. With me, as always, is Matt Wilson. And Matt, if you were a cartoon animal, I think you'd be an owl. I think I would, yes.
00:01:12
Speaker
So I'm supposed to say what cartoon animal I think you would be? Yes. This is a very fun intro question with no potential for her feeling for hurt feelings of any kind. I think you would be a tiger. A tiger? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Because I feel like a lot of cartoon tigers are very jovial.
00:01:41
Speaker
Okay. Your Tiggers, your Tony the Tigers, and so on and so on. I am a very jovial person. Yeah. So that's what that's what I thought of. That's interesting. I would not have picked ah any any cat for myself. Big cat, big feline. do You
Character Depictions in Comics
00:01:58
Speaker
think you would be a cartoon dog? I think I would probably be a cartoon dog or a bear. See,
00:02:08
Speaker
I was thinking bear, but I didn't know how that would fly. I don't want to say anything. It's so potentially insulting. See, Matt, Matt, I'm guessing that what you're thinking, you're like, I don't want to say Chris is a big fat bear. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's look, I appreciate that because that is taking my feelings into consideration. There's nothing wrong with being a big fat bear.
00:02:31
Speaker
And in fact, I see a picture of a big fat bear and I'm like, that's what I want to be. That's the vibe. A lot of cartoon bears are also like charming as well. And and often smarter than average. That's true. Like Yogi is, he's a charmer.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah. I'm, I'm not, I'm not going to start wearing a pork pie hat or nothing. I'm not in a ska band. You're not going to wear just a tie. Exactly. A hat and a tie. And those are the clothes. I will, and weirdly enough, like a collar for the tie, but no shirt. Just the collar. Just the collar. Yeah. I see. Okay. We've,
00:03:23
Speaker
talked about this before, or at least I've talked about what animal I would be, and my answer is owl. But I want to take the judgment part out of it that is usually attributed to owls.
Frankenstein and New Comic Buzz
00:03:37
Speaker
Okay, so you don't you don't think that the judgment part is accurate of you being an owl? If we're talking about goals,
00:03:52
Speaker
I don't want to be seen as judgmental. No. Okay. We are professional critics, but okay. I, you know what I mean. I mean judgment. I don't mean judgmental of work. I mean judgmental of people. So what owl attributes would you rather wisdom? I assume wisdom, uh, the ability to turn my head in an almost 180 degree rotation. Uh-huh. Yeah.
00:04:22
Speaker
Night vision? it In my head, you are an owl who wears glasses. and Yeah. To answer how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? That motherfucker does not actually answer that question. He bites it. He bites it. Yeah. those are the Those are the good owl qualities. Hey, it's Raw this week on the show. You know what that means, Chris? It is. You know what that means.
00:04:53
Speaker
That means that you currently have your most visited Wikipedia page of the year open. That's right. Of the past 18 months.
Diving into WWE and Spider-Man Celebrations
00:05:03
Speaker
That's right. It is Wikipedia's list of wwe WWE Raw special episodes. And here's something that's surprising, Chris. ahho Well, maybe it's not surprising because they know what Labor Day is.
00:05:22
Speaker
w WWE has never done an episode of Raw called Labor Day Raw. Yeah. Yeah. Huh? Interesting. No, that's not surprising at all of that. Yeah. But on Labor Day of 2009, September 7th, 2009, they did The Prices Raw guest hosted by Bob Barker. o So this Raw episode is The Prices Raw. The guest hosts?
00:05:48
Speaker
era of Raw is among the worst that program ever was. However, Bob Barker was like one of the one of the highlights. like Bob Barker was there putting in work, really giving it his all.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah, Bob Barker is here to have a good time. And yeah he did, as far as I could tell. But this is that was definitely when I was not watching. And everything I've seen from the guest host era of Raw is absolute off awful garbage. it was It was bad. It was rough. Yeah. But Bob Barker, one of the only good ones, the price is raw. That's tonight's episode.
00:06:34
Speaker
of War Rocket Ajax, the price is raw. And we're going to be ranking some of the rawest moments in comics history. But we before we get to that, Chris, we do have some business to take care of here at the top. Our first bit of business is thanking our supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. Now these are the people who have gone all the way down to 695 Gimmick Street. Of course, you know what's there, because we know what's at 694 Gimmick Street. The stadium.
00:07:00
Speaker
the ballpark, yeah, where the Gimmick Street Good Hats play. right So, 695 Gimmick Street is, of course, the parking structure. Sure, sure. And ah people roll merch carts out there and sell Gimmick Street Good Hat merchandise out there. Yeah, I mean, like the obviously, like the main team store is in... Inside the ballpark, yeah. don't like But yeah, you know if you you can honestly, that whole area of downtown Gimmick Street,
00:07:29
Speaker
area of Gimmick Street that runs through downtown. On game days, they they love the good hats. Oh, yeah. Matt, I'm gonna ask you this right now. We make t-shirts every year. Could we make Gimmick Street good hats hats? I know they would have to be more expensive. We could make hats. Yeah, we can make hats. if We should make Gimmick Street good hats hats. Someone?
00:07:57
Speaker
We'll have to design a logo for the Giving Street Good Hats. which is the Which is the good hat. Which would have to be the good hat in some fashion. If we had a logo, we could make hats. I will check and see if Tea Public has hats, because I don't remember. But well but we we could make hats for sure. Well, dear listener, maybe maybe that's what we do.
00:08:23
Speaker
Maybe that's what we do. You decide. And while you're deciding, and if you're like, Hey, what are you talking about with these t-shirts? Then sounds to me like you need to take a trip over to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax, where you can chip in as little as a dollar a month to help support the show, help keep the show going, get some rewards in return, help me personally, because I do not currently have a day job and Most importantly, subheading to the previous, paid those gimmicks they keep sending them out called bills. That's right. I've discovered that only just now does Tea Public have hats. They just started selling hats. So the the the time is now. As John Cena said, the time is now. The time is now. Here are our newest supporters on Patreon, Chris.
00:09:25
Speaker
Dave Harvey. ah Thank you, Dave. If you'd like to be like Dave and help us out here on the show, and it is wake up, wake up the first of the month. So a good time to jump on board. You can head over as Chris said, to patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax and kick in as little as $1 per month to make sure that we do this show every single week, that we do movie fighters and snack situation, that we do every story ever specials monthly, and that we do comics catch up. And as Patreon you get every single one of those shows that I just named Totally ad free you get a completely ad free feed of everything that we make here at Klydus Media With the exception of the bonus content, which you have to be at the $5 level to get um There's a ton of bonus bonus content over there on the patreon that you can at that level
00:10:19
Speaker
Get the whole backlog of and listen to read the writing that's there. See the spreadsheet of every. Survivors like game that Chris has ever played. A spreadsheet survivors, which is we exclusively updated hot and fresh updates. There you go. Uh, if that's exclusive to our Patreon. So if any of that sounds cool to you, join at that level.
00:10:46
Speaker
You can get line stepping privileges for our segment segments, which currently include every story ever and Thursday Night Raw over there at the $10 level. And then there are physical rewards above that. The good hats hat would probably be a Patreon exclusive first before it would go on T public. So keep that in mind as well.
00:11:16
Speaker
If you're unable to help us monetarily, you can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use, whatever that may be. Or you could also spread the word about the show. Let your friends know about the show. Tell them to join our Patreon and kick in some cash. That would help us out as well. So go do that if you can. Spread the word about the show. Help us out. With that, Chris,
Gaming Frustrations and Revelations
00:11:45
Speaker
It's time for some checks and recs, what do you say? Let's do it.
00:11:51
Speaker
Chris, what would you like to check in with this week? Matt, I want to follow up on a recommendation that I made last week because I talked a little bit about ah playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla and I've been playing it and it's kind of the only thing I've been doing lately So I did kinda wanna dig into it a little bit. Have you played this one? Chris, I have not played an Assassin's Creed game right you in like a decade. We talked about this when I was playing Odyssey. Right. Yes, yes. There's still too much game in it. who I will say that. There's a lot of game in there. And... the The result of that is that I just go fuck around in this game a bunch and kind of do things out of order. Like I had a mission where they were like, hey, this is going to be really tough. You better go take your boys and go in there and and fight those guys. And I was like, cool, I have already previously murdered them.
00:13:03
Speaker
So this is maybe going to be a little bit easier than you think, but all right. I think Valhalla might be an interesting one for you to play. Okay. Because Odyssey was quite interesting to me in that there were like, like, it's, it's just an open world action game.
00:13:25
Speaker
at that point, right? Like with incomprehensible damage numbers and everything's got stats and it's entirely too much. and And you are not like, you're a mercenary, but you're not like really an assassin. Like the DLC that made me quit the game is like when a guy shows up and he's got a hidden blade. And it's like, all right, you did not put that in the base game, huh?
00:13:54
Speaker
You just, like, you kind of, like, slipped your mind. Like, you can still, like, do assassinations and stuff in the classic Assassin's Creed style, and you have a pet eagle, and and all that, but very just open-worldy action-y. Assassin's Creed Valhalla brings some stuff back from, like, the Ezio days.
00:14:21
Speaker
like when you're in an unfamiliar city that you like your faction doesn't control like guards if they see you will attack you so there's a lot of like blend in with the people walking around and and that sort of thing which was kind of interesting to go back to after spending i think a hundred and eighty hours just doing like run around and kill people stuff. And you do get a hidden blade. Not immediately, but fairly early on. One of the things I did appreciate is that when Avor gets it, she's like, yeah, A, I'm not cutting off my finger. And B, this thing's cool. Why would I hide it? And where's it on the outside of her arm? Which I think is very fun. I don't know how much of the sort of
00:15:19
Speaker
like classic Assassin's Creed gameplay there was in like Syndicate or Unity or the ones that that I missed out on but it's definitely back from Odyssey in this to the point of also getting like you assassinate someone, there's a hilarious Mortal Kombat finisher cam that follows the tip of the blade going into their guts, and then you get to like, go into the mine palace and have a little conversation with them. ah You do not say, Ricky Escott's in Pache, but it's close. It's close. It's interesting to see all that stuff come back.
00:16:03
Speaker
in a way that I i was like, oh yeah, right, like Like this game, this Assassin's Creed game, it's like an Assassin's Creed, you know? Interesting. ah Matt, what have you been up to this week while I have been ah in 10th century England trying to murder people with an axe? Well, as listeners may be able to pick up, I am slightly sick So if I sound at any point out of breath or stuffy, that is why. i Sick as hell. that's You know it, baby. ah No, I'm a little bit sick. I took a COVID test. It's not COVID. I've got some kind of sinus garbage. And so you know I'm taking a good Advil, Colton sinus. o Not a sponsor, but it could be. um
00:16:57
Speaker
Oh yeah, let's, let's, hey, pharmaceuticals? Holler at your boys. Yes, for sure. Uh, but, uh, that, that's, that's kind of where I've been the past couple of days is just like getting through the haze of whatever this sinus infection kind of thing is. But also, uh, Chris, it sounds like you've been going through the PlayStation Plus catalog for stuff to play. I have also been doing that and,
00:17:26
Speaker
I know a lot of like game critics and people who are analysts of games, people we like, including Jacob Geller, have talked a lot about the 2012 game Hotline Miami, which I never played. So I looked on the PlayStation Plus catalog and I saw it found Hotline Miami. And Chris, I will tell you that I had the moment that you have had with some games that I like, where I was playing it, and I just hit a wall of it being, like, a little too hard, and I was like, fuck this, actually. And stopped. I will not be finishing Hotline Miami. There is a definite, like... There's a thing in there that you don't really expect from an action game.
00:18:25
Speaker
Which is that like, you have to memorize the, like it's like playing Celeste, but you're murdering. Yeah, it's it's almost a puzzle game more than a action game in some ways. Yeah. And it's not that I dislike that. I just have to keep trying and retrying the level so many times that I feel like I'm wasting my time. ah So I will probably almost certainly not be playing any anymore Hotline Miami. I'll find another game on the catalog to play. um But so I just wanted to let you know that I had one of those one of those experiences.
00:19:10
Speaker
ah but yeah I love that for you.
00:19:15
Speaker
I love that the whole of the human experience is now open to you. That's right. ah it's Time for some recommendations. What do you have to recommend, k Chris?
Unexpected Roles and Fantastic Four
00:19:22
Speaker
Matt, I would like to recommend something that was a previous recommendation of yours. Because I, the movie theater hater, finally sat down and watched Furiosa. Oh, yes. ah Which I was not prepared A, I was not prepared for how far we would be into that movie before I saw Anya Taylor-Joy. Because the different actors played Furiosa for like the first half hour or so. Yeah. Yeah, as ah as a kid. Yeah. A half hour seat like seems generous. It felt like 45 minutes. It may be. it's It's a good chunk of the start of the movie, yeah. Yeah, I don't even know if you would put Anya Taylor-Joy's name on the poster if if her name wasn't on it.
00:20:14
Speaker
I wasn't prepared for that. I also wasn't prepared for Chris Hemsworth's entire deal. Well what's interesting is Arna Taylor Joy as Furiosa maybe says 10 lines of dialogue. Maybe. She has more dialogue than Max does in Fury Road.
00:20:39
Speaker
But she does not have as much dialogue as Furiosa does in Fury Road, that's for sure. Yeah, she she does not speak very much as Furiosa. Although when she does, she sounds like Charlize Theron. It's uncanny. Yes. But Chris Hemsworth just talks and talks and talks and talks through that. but He's a dang chatterbox with the thickest Australian accent. It's great. and a bizarrely truly weird prosthetic nose Yeah, they didn't want you to remember that Chris Hemsworth's like really good-looking They wanted you to think he was like pretty good-looking Yeah, it's it's a wild choice to to to cast one of the most handsome people alive And then ugly him up a little bit
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think what works about it is, like, unfortunately for all of us, Chris Hemsworth is also, like, funny and charming. and he has like really good comedic timing. It really sucks that he's so good at so many things. and It sucks! ah like I remember watching Ghostbusters and being like, fuck this. yeah Not for any reason other than like, oh no, he's funny. like o Leave some for the rest of us, dude. Yeah, come on, man.
00:22:05
Speaker
ah I mean, obviously, you know, you and I are also incredibly handsome and truly hilarious. Yeah, I mean, we're doing fine, but like... i would I mean, I would say we're like slightly less handsome than Chris Hemsworth. And slightly more funny? Sure. I don't know. I'll leave that up to... Honestly, I don't know about that one, bud. Yeah, I don't know either. its I'll leave that one up to the pundits. Yeah. the the The nose, the voice, the fact that, spoiler warning,
00:22:33
Speaker
His nipples get ripped off at one point and it's like not even the point of the scene. It's just like a thing that happens.
00:22:46
Speaker
Very weird choices with like Chris Hemsworth as Dementus specifically. ah Some weird stuff. I did think it was like, ah I really, really liked it.
00:23:00
Speaker
Uh, I think I, I gave it like five stars on letterbox. It did feel to me like there was more or maybe just more obvious CG in this one than there was in Fury Road, which I wonder if that was like a budgetary thing. I think it had to be. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is like weird to me because Like Fury Road was successful. Yeah, I'm not sure. i i i I think this one had like some equally impressive practical effects and stunt work. But there were definitely more CG effects and you can only suspect that they it was a budgetary thing. but was not Maybe it has nothing to do with Fury Road. Maybe it has everything to do with
00:23:55
Speaker
Warner Entertainment as it currently is. I mean, you know, the output CM Punk in it. He's but David Zaflav's favorite. David Zaflav loves one Bill Phil and never forget that. Never, never ever. I will never forget it. I do or will I? I thought it was like really nice to kind of get more like, there's not more explained in that world than there is in in Fury Road.
00:24:25
Speaker
But there is like more of it that I think is like interesting. There's one moment in the movie that I really, really loved. And I don't, I'm wondering if you picked up on it because here's the thing. The movie does explain it after the fact, but I love the fact that it doesn't explain it while it's happening. And it's the part where Furiosa and the guy that becomes like her mentor. ah The guy who's not Mad Max but looks just like Mad Max. The guy who's basically Mad Max, yeah. yeah Jack. yeah mad Mad Jacks. Mad Jacks. They go to the bullet farm ah to talk to the people who run the bullet farm. But then they quickly realize that Dementus has taken over the bullet farm and it becomes like a standoff.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah. And nobody says that. It's just all told through action. That ruled. I loved that part. There's some really good action and like really good set pieces. And like, even though, even though you've seen Mad Max Fury Road and you know that Furiosa does not have her ah left arm in that movie,
00:25:54
Speaker
that That movie does like a Dark Knight level job. you wrote like Remember how there is that scene in The Dark Knight where they're in the courtroom and the guy reaches into his jacket when Harvey's got him on the stand? yeah And you're like, right on, two-face, I know how this goes. ah But Harvey just knocks him out. ah hu And doesn't become two-face then, and it's a different time that he becomes two-face. They do that like three times with Furiosa and her arm.
00:26:18
Speaker
hu And then it becomes Evil Dead. Well, actually, Army of Darkness, the scene of Furiosa making her first prosthetic arm, which is like which is like a oh like steam shovel clamp. It had to be George Miller riffing on Army of Darkness because it's shot the same way.
00:26:40
Speaker
I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt it. I popped when Chum Bucket, the sidekick character from the Mad Max video game, which is actually quite good, uh, showed up very briefly. Uh, so yeah, Furiosa was a a good time. I kind of watched it again and I just watched it like last week. So maybe I'll do like a double feature. There is also like one, like one shot of Mad Max.
00:27:10
Speaker
with the V8 interceptor yes in the position that he's in at the beginning of Fury Road, like watch it like watching some shit go down and clearly going, nah, I'm out of fucking business. What I find especially interesting about that shot of Mad Max watching everything is that Furiosa is like 20 years younger, 15 years younger than she was in Fury Road.
00:27:40
Speaker
Max is the same age. Yeah. Max is just always Max. Yeah, man. George Miller said, fuck a timeline. If you're trying to make a Mad Max timeline, fuck you. That's what George Miller said. For sure. I feel like I liked it ah about as much as you did. So thank you for recommending it.
00:28:08
Speaker
Sure. And I'm glad that I finally got to watch it on ah David Zaslav's home box office cinema maximum. Just Maxwell now. Oh, right. just Sorry. David Zaslav's Maxwell. but Matt, what is your recommendation for
AEW All In and Secret Wars Excitement
00:28:24
Speaker
the people? Well, speaking of Maxwell and David Zaslav, not Maxwell, the streaming service, Maxwell, Jacob Friedman. I'm recommending AEW All In, the pay-per-view from London, England.
00:28:38
Speaker
from Wembley Stadium. There's a lot to like about that pay-per-view. I expected to be very emotional at the end because I had a feeling and was anticipating that Brian Danielson was going to win the title. um Sorry if that's a spoiler for you, but I feel like it was obviously the ending that the show had to have. I was not WrestleMania 30 emotional, but when his family got in the ring, I did like get a little full, you know? Cause like, I think he's my like favorite wrestler of all time. Really? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like he was the guy when I got back into it, he was the guy the fans got behind. WrestleMania 30 like was the first time
00:29:36
Speaker
Not the first time ever I got really emotional about wrestling, but like the end of WrestleMania 30 was me realizing like, Oh, I still love this. Like I had been watching it for a while just for fun. Yeah. Cause like we talked about it and I could read funny recaps of it and stuff, but it was Daniel Bryan at the time winning at WrestleMania 30 that made me go, Oh right. I love pro wrestling.
00:30:07
Speaker
You know? Yeah. WrestleMania 30, arguably the second best WrestleMania. yeah I'd say so. Yeah. After of course, WrestleMania X seven. Yes. The one that I watched two weeks ago on your birthday. um my That match was great. I, I, I really loved the way it was built up. Also like Brian Danielson, here's what I like about Brian Danielson as a wrestler. He always wants to Give things to his opponents, right? It's notable that he's the guy that kofi beat For kofi mania Yes, I think that's so appropriate to who brian danielson is and so For him to be the one to beat swerve That feels Better than a lot of other people beating swerve Yeah, you know and and
00:31:05
Speaker
ah The way that match was was built, the way it was all based around working a body part, um I just i love that match a lot. But my the the thing that I would say really sold all in, and it's the second match on the show, which is unbelievable, it definitely should have been later in the show than where it was put, is the Tony Storm Mariah May match. Honestly, a on a card with some really, really great matches and kind of like Like, a thing that I very much appreciate about AEW is that you watch that show and there's kind of like, here's every kind of wrestling. Yeah, very much so, yeah. Here's, here's a funny comedy guy and here's a match where someone's going to upend a bag full of broken glass. And the crowd's gonna chant, cry me a river. Uh-huh. Like, and here's a, you know, here's a really just like,
00:32:05
Speaker
you know, were great ass, technical ass wrestling match in the main event. But like that Tony storm Mariah May match like kinda had it all. Yeah. I mean, what I find incredible about it is that Tony storms entire women's title run. This last run has been all about her being old Hollywood and being a movie star and she would make new films that she would debut on Dynamite and stuff like that. And then her big blow off match where she loses the title to Mariah May is like cinema. Yes. That match was cinema. Yes, very much so. I loved it. I liked it. Examples of like wrestling being physical storytelling. Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
that I've seen in ah in a hot minute. It was so much better than the Burt Baker Mercedes match, not to throw shade on them. I mean you know i think it was better than the the Jack Perry versus Darby Allen match. Yeah, it was. like um I mean, two very different kinds of wrestling, but yeah but ah they should have just swapped the the two women's title matches on the card, I feel like. but like um I wonder if they wanted ah if if they didn't want to have three bloody matches at the bottom of the card. I think it has more to do with title changes. no I noticed that the two matches before Danielson Swerve were matches where the champion retained.
00:33:55
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I see what they're doing. Okay. I see what they're doing. That makes sense. They could do the title change in the main event. But nonetheless, I think, I think it that's overthinking things that you should put the better match for later in the show. Um,
00:34:14
Speaker
So at all in had, you know, some matches were better than others, but um I think overall a very, very good pay-per-view. ah But I wanted to point out those two highlights in particular. Yeah. And boy, on Dynamite this week, it's like they hit the reset button on the whole company. um But we don't have to talk about that, Chris. Instead, it's time to talk about some comics. Let's do it. The winner of the Texture Choice Award for this week,
00:34:40
Speaker
Chris, I believe is Amazing Spider-Man number 950, which is also number 56. Comics, baby. Yeah, comics. Gotta love them. It is fascinating to me, Chris, how the, like, meta story, the overarching story, the story that sort of... The Zeb Wells run on Amazing Spider-Man keeps coming back to.
00:35:10
Speaker
is the tombstone story. I love that. I love it too, but you would never, I would never have expected it. No, probably not. And this is the thing that we've talked about before. I love it when someone just decides, hey, my run is going to be about this guy. Yeah. I loved it when Carl Kiesel and Carrie Nord tried to get Mr. Hyde over.
00:35:39
Speaker
as Daredevil's arch enemy? I mean, they didn't, but they tried. They didn't, but those stories were good. Yeah. I will say, I do think Zed Wells has done a much better job of getting Tombstone over as like a major Spider-Man villain. Definitely. Well, I mean, to he made Tombstone the new kingpin. Yeah.
00:35:59
Speaker
Twice! This issue in particular I think calls back a lot to the start of of Zebwell's tombstone stuff and Like we even get like a mirror of the scene that I think you and I first really flipped out about and really loved of Peter in the car talking to Tombstone. Like we get, like we go back to that, which makes sense because unfortunately for you and me and other, I would say, right thinking people, this is the start of Zebulz's last arc on the book. Yeah, which is too bad. Yeah, which is too bad, which i I found out because after I was done reading it, I looked at the letters page and it was a
00:36:43
Speaker
like one letter, which in this case was from the editor, being like, hey, this is going to be his last story. Which, you know, he's been on that book for two or three years now of of a book that comes out twice a month. So yeah, like in that time, I think he's done a lot of really, really good stuff. So I do not ah begrudge him for moving on. I do hope that is what he is happening.
00:37:12
Speaker
because I think that this has been one of my favorite runs on Spider-Man in a while. Yeah, same. ah You know, some people don't like it and those people are wrong and they hate Paul and whatever. I mean, I mean, I like, I don't like Paul, but he's also nothing like he's just, you know, in this book for like, he's in this issue for like a page and it's fine.
00:37:38
Speaker
I mean, if if Zeb Wells has a a flaw as a Spider-Man writer, I guess it's that I do not give a shit one way or the other about Paul. Yeah. So this issue, given that it's an an anniversary issue, has three different stories in it. Yes. And what I like about the first story and the second story is that the first story has a thing that happens where Peter gives a card to Randy Robertson. And he says, Peter and Randy are outside of ah of the apartment and Tombstone rolls up and wants Peter to get in the car. And so Peter's like, okay, Randy takes this card. Let my friend know where I am. ah And Tombstone's like, oh, is that card, that card have Spider-Man's number on it? And Peter kind of like doesn't answer the question.
00:38:35
Speaker
It's like, is it a problem if it does? Yeah. And then it comes come to find out that that card had She-Hulk's number on it. Yeah. And then the backup story is about how Peter got She-Hulk's card.
00:38:55
Speaker
it
00:38:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's the the total or for explanation of how Peter God see Alex number, which I would not have questioned. Yeah. Uh, but the, the backup story is also very fun, but it's also like, it is also a story that you can't tell, uh, and still have the main story work because it's a, it's a surprise when, uh, she shows up, but yeah, the, the stuff with the stuff with tombstone in this, I don't know, man, it's really good.
00:39:28
Speaker
really good no like it The shit, like that there's a little bit of prologue where Tombstone is with the kingpin and they're watching a a lion ah ah devour,
00:39:41
Speaker
or or I don't guess it's devouring a cub, but it's like killing a cub in its mouth um to show its dominance. And Tombstone and kingpin have a conversation about that.
00:39:55
Speaker
And TwoSet and Kingpin have a conversation and somehow Kingpin doesn't just go, you know the Lion King? What's happening here is the Lion King. Yeah. ah But like, essentially Kingpin says, like, hey, if I have to if I had to kill my own, I would. And by the end of this issue, that's what tombstone is like facing. Yeah.
00:40:22
Speaker
and And he's got that lion look in his eyes and it's, man, it's good. Yeah. I like tombstone, but like this run has really made me love tombstone as like, as a character, like not to mention like, I really like all the white rabbit stuff. Yeah. And, uh, what's, what's the guy's name, Kamal? Who's the, uh, white rabbit's driver. right yeah It's been really great for like taking characters that I've known for 25, 30 years and being like, hey, now you now you get them. Yeah, for sure. ah For all that. ah Chris, you wanted to talk a little bit about Ultimate X-Men number six. So this is Ultimate X-Men. Did you know it was also Ultimate Runaways? I think it was getting there.
00:41:15
Speaker
the last issue I read, which I have not read this one yet. Right. Like when, uh, Nico and, uh, the character who's not Molly show up, like you're like, Oh, okay. So they're bringing those characters in and that makes sense. Cause you know, Nico is, uh, is, uh, in runaways, Japanese American. And in this book, just Japanese. Uh, and so we're getting this version of the X-Men that are all ah teenage Japanese girls. ah But when Mori shows up, who's Molly from Runaways, you're like, huh, okay. And then when Nico's like, yeah, my parents are actually part of this weird organization.
00:41:56
Speaker
ah
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah, like this this cult that's ah that's giving you a lot of problems. so Yeah, my parents are part of that. I love this book. It's great. this it's like It's such a different tone from Marvel Comics in general. Yeah, it's like Ultimate Spider-Man is just like a Spider-Man comic where some stuff is different. And the Ultimates is just like an Avengers comic where some stuff is different. This comic is like
00:42:32
Speaker
It doesn't not feel like the X-Men. It's not just what if the X-Men was today, and it's not even just what if the X-Men was a different aesthetic. It's very much a, hey, here's some stuff that thematically you like about the X-Men done in a very different way that could probably appeal to a completely different audience than any of the takes on X-Men that we've ever done in the mainline d c or mainline Marvel Universe. like Yeah, I mean, it's it's, hey, have you read a lot of manga, but not a lot of mainstream American comics? Here's your entryway. Here's the book that maybe we're gonna use to get you. Yeah, and I mean, it goes without saying, Peach Minwako's art is incredible. like
00:43:30
Speaker
the character designs. i I love that there is ah so much cool stuff. I didn't get until like the cast page of this issue that the bad guy was the shadow king, ah which I think is is really fun. I love this book. This has been legitimately one of the big surprises and one of my favorite comics of the year.
00:43:54
Speaker
One last book we're gonna talk about is Fantastic Four, number 24, which we talked about the previous issue and how it was kind of like a funny story narrated by Johnny Storm where it promises that an alien is gonna choke him at the beginning and then it does at the end. This continues that story, but from Reed Richards' perspective,
00:44:21
Speaker
And it's a much more serious look at the same story. And it is revealed that the one alien that they found alive from this race of aliens that kept showing up in tiny, tiny little spaceships, smaller than microscopic little spaceships. All of those aliens were dead. This one was alive. And it's, it's revealed to be like a kind of mastermind alien. And I definitely was thinking through a lot of this issue.
00:44:50
Speaker
Is this gonna turn out to be like some kind of alien version of Dr. Doom? What she actually turns out to be is a an alien billionaire. She's an alien capitalist. An alien capitalist who ruined her planet. Yeah. Man, that's good shit. Like, that is a great way to tell a very relevant story in a super comics-y way.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yes, I was a little bit... thrown off because over the course of this issue, I was like, okay, so first issue is narrated by Johnny. Second issue is narrated by Reed. I assumed that we were going to get two more parts of this story. And one would be Ben and one would be Susan. But I mean, I guess we still could. I doubt we're going to. I do like the contrast of having the dumbest guy on the team and the smartest guy on the team.
00:45:52
Speaker
hu provide the two perspectives that we get also this story this weird little story of an alien capitalist trying to uh live forever that then kind of turns into superman it kind of yes it kind of turns into superman yeah in a way that i love Because like the whole thing at the end where Reed's like, yeah, look, that planet was probably a lot like Earth. you know There were probably a bunch of people who hated the space capitalist and and wanted her dead out of just revenge. But there were probably some other people who had some different ideas.
00:46:42
Speaker
and Fantastic Four, the most Marvel Marvel comic being like, yeah, the opposite of Revenge of Superman. That was beautiful. Yes. That was beautiful comic books. Surely that has to like, it's a dying planet, two parents, a baby and a rocket. Ryan North had to know that that was a Superman bit. I think definitely. um This is right. This is Ryan North and Carlos Gomez again.
00:47:15
Speaker
One last thing, to beat this alien, Reid gets in her tiny spaceship with her, make sure that it's going nowhere at the speed of light. So they, because they're going the speed of light, time is going faster outside of the ship. And so they keep going until the universe ends. And then a God hand at the beginning of the ninth cosmos, sends Reed back. Again, again, that is the shibboleth for if you're reading a Marvel comic by someone who gets it. Reed being told he's at the beginning of the ninth cosmos popped me hard. Yes. That was that that ruled that ruled. I'm so happy that Al Ewing cosmology of the Marvel universe is like expanding into other writers work.
00:48:14
Speaker
Look, never look down on any project because even the mobile game tie-in and can shape the nature of the cosmos. Absolutely. All right, Chris, speaking of shaping the nature of the cosmos, we have raw moments to rank. So let's get to it. Let's do it. When I was looking around for companies that could sponsor the show, I went to places that I like, ah services that I enjoy, and Big Bad Toy Store is absolutely one of those, with the absolute best selection of action figures, collectibles, and other toys that you can use to make your own
00:49:00
Speaker
roster of champions, like the one I have on my desk, ah where I've got animated series Batman, Goku, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Joker from Persona, Guts, Your Forger, and Osagiyo Jimbo. That's a thing you can do right at Big Bad Toy Store. When I was talking to them about sponsoring the show, we talked about the the toys that I like, ah the SH Fig Warts that you can get there, the other Japanese action figures. We talked about Marvel Legends. We talked about DC Directs and the McFarlane toy stuff.
00:49:28
Speaker
But I said, hey, what's a cool thing that you guys have that no one else does? And they told me about Operation Monster Force, an original line from Fresh Monkey Fiction and Big Bad Toy Store. And it was described to me as, what if G.I. Joe had Dracula in it? That got my attention. ah It is a line of toys that is following a storyline that is told via comics that come with the packaging of the figures.
00:49:57
Speaker
where ah the Forgotten King, who is a mummy in a suit, has resurrected and is raising an army of evil undead soldiers, and wouldn't you know it, they had to go wake up Dracula to stop him. They sent me these, and I could not wait to bust open this Dracula figure. Please, if you do nothing else,
00:50:24
Speaker
use our URL, go to BigBadToyStore, look up Operation Monster Force Dracula, and tell me that is not a Dracula. The second wave is actually coming out very soon, adding more ah takes on classic monsters to the mythos, but you can go get Dracula, the Forgotten King, and a bunch of other figures in the Operation Monster Force line right now. The yeah URL that Chris mentioned is tinyurl.com slash BBTSWRA,
00:50:58
Speaker
the last part in all caps, BBTSWRA in all caps. Big Bad Toy Store has $4 flat rate shipping on everything. If you don't want to just buy stuff piecemeal,
00:51:10
Speaker
You want to get a big collection of stuff to buy so you just pay shipping one time. You can add stuff instead of just hitting buy now. You can add stuff to your pile of loot. You can build up that pile of loot for 90 days, put it on hold for 90 days.
00:51:28
Speaker
And then when that 90 days is up or when you're ready to order, hit buy, they all ship together. You pay $4 flat shipping on all of that stuff. I don't know why other places don't do something like this. Big Bad Toy Store does it. They also have collector and standard grade packaging options depending on whether you want to keep your toys in box or pop them out and just put them on the shelf. Go to tinyurl.com.
00:51:57
Speaker
slash, all caps, BBTS, WRA, order tons of cool stuff, tons of awesome toys, and let them know that we're Rockin' Ajax at ya. there was no training or triing of me and my bra lived like a man but i'm animal bro Chris, our first raw submission here on The Price is Raw, oh is from Patrick O'Duffy.
00:52:23
Speaker
Ah, the boss dog. Boss dog, Patrick O'Duffy, who asks, you know what was raw? That time Hellboy told the embodiment of cosmic evil to go fuck itself and tore his own goddamn horns off rather than become a Satan. Yeah, legit. It it is fucking dope as hell. And keeping to our game show theme for this episode, Hellboy has given two choices.
00:52:48
Speaker
Right. To, uh, die or take his right hand and open the pit. Right. And he says, Oh yeah, screw you. I choose door number three. perfect Perfect. How did Hellboy know? How did he know? That that was going to fit the theme so well. Yeah. That this was going to be the prices raw. Here's the, here's the problem.
00:53:11
Speaker
with this, um that Patrick and I mean, also Mike Mignola have like, that like, we can't talk about this one, which is the show. Because it's all there already. Like it's it's self evidently raw. There's no real debate. It's just yeah, Hellboy like Hellboy having like snapping off his horns and filing them down.
00:53:38
Speaker
is maybe the best character design choice since Spider-Man having a full face mask. It's so good. Yeah. I don't like there's, because not only is it like a good visual and not only is it like an unusual visual for the character, it's also like it sets that up that like sometimes hair grew his horns grow out.
00:54:02
Speaker
And he snaps him off again. It is a pre-made visual shorthand for a thing you don't even know is gonna happen yet when you first see that guy. It's pretty great, yeah. It rules. It rules. For listeners who don't know what Hellboy story this is from, um go read it immediately. It's Wake the Devil. Yeah, which is an early one. Which is an early one, but not the first one, notably. No. No, it is not.
00:54:32
Speaker
because you you don't really get Hellboy's deal until a good little while into help get Hellboy. Hellboy's deal for like 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't get the whole story of what that dude's deal is for a while. But you get, you know, you get bits and pieces over time. ah but But certainly like,
00:55:03
Speaker
him growing out the horns and being told like, this is your purpose. This is your destiny to wake the devil in your heart and and and open this door to hell. Do it. And for Hellboy to be like, fuck you and rip his horns off is, uh, truly incredible. Hard to agree. Yeah. Wake the devil's good. Honestly, like,
00:55:29
Speaker
There's not a whole lot of Hellboy that I would be like, yeah, that you can that's a pass. They're all smash. They're all they're all smash, yeah. Hellboy, all smash.
00:55:45
Speaker
This is one of the best ones, though. This is one of the best ones. What's wild is, I would say that this isn't like the rawest thing Hellboy has ever done, even though it is literally like shit-talking cosmic ontological forces. Yes. And literally saying, screw you. And denying his nefarious purpose, right? Yeah, there is very few things that are as inherently raw as ah denying one's destiny.
00:56:19
Speaker
true, especially if that first destiny is ah horrific and horrible ah to to bring hell on earth. Thank thank goodness that Hellboy denies his destiny. did you Did you mention the part where Hellboy says, if you don't like it, kill me if you can? Oh, that's also raw as fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the last thing he says in that panel, which is badass as shit.
00:56:49
Speaker
And they don't. He just, like he goes back to regular earth immediately after that. Yeah. He goes back to work. He goes back to his job. Yeah. Man. Hellboy good. Hellboy good. Hellboy real good. Hellboy real good. Matt, where on our raw list would you, would you put this one? Given your druthers. I think this could go at,
00:57:21
Speaker
number 10 or 11. Uh, let's see. At number 10 we have Meg, uh, no, that's number nine. At number 10 we have Storm stabbing Kalisto in a knife fight. That's pretty raw as fuck. Yeah. Pretty raw. That's not denying your destiny. That's reminding someone who you are. Which is maybe rawr than denying your destiny. Yeah. Number 11, we have Wonder Woman blinding herself with Medusa snake venom. So she can't see Medusa. Yeah.
00:57:49
Speaker
and turn to stone. That's pretty raw. That's pretty raw. Hellboy saying fucking kill me if you can and snapping his horns off because he doesn't want to be the devil. two Maybe a little more raw. I think it edges it out. It is the new number 11. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's badass. It's great. Yeah. What I really like is that all the like cosmic beings, uh, standing around and being like,
00:58:17
Speaker
Damn, he really did it. Damn, that's wild.
00:58:24
Speaker
ah Mike Viola showing up on the list a couple of times. And very likely to show up more. Because but as we said, this isn't even the rawest thing Hellboy does in Hellboy. Greg Pachnet has our next raw moment.
00:58:47
Speaker
which is from the Flash Rebirth number three.
00:58:53
Speaker
a
00:58:56
Speaker
Okay, I'm listening. ah the The line is, clark those were for Charity Clark, which I have to admit, I don't know immediately. Oh no, that's when they talk about, that's when they talk about, ah a Flash and Superman talk about racing.
00:59:17
Speaker
And Superman's like, like, yeah, we always tie it. And Flash goes, does it for charity, Clark? Oh, I see. So Flash indicating that he's actually faster? Yeah, like, like, yeah. Look, I do like that. And I will admit that that is, is, is pretty raw. I don't think Barry Allen has actually ever done anything raw in his entire existence as a comic book character.
00:59:47
Speaker
I don't think him saying those are for charity clerk is, is raw. I mean, it's like, it's like a, like kind of a, like a raw thing that like, like if I said it to you, if we had competed in something that we consistently tied at and I was like, yeah, I can beat Matt. And you were like, oh, we always tie. And I was like, those are for the listeners, Matt.
01:00:15
Speaker
I mean, I guess that's more of being a dick now that I really say it out loud with you and me. I mean, it I guess you could call it an own, but I don't think it's raw. um I'm looking at this comic now, and I don't even want to say who the artist is, if you know, you know. Uh-huh. I don't know if we said this at the time, but looking at it now, um the art in this comic sucks ass. ah I said it at the time.
01:00:44
Speaker
loudly and often. It's not good. In fact, um, I don't want to make the person who sent this in feel bad, but I do want to know what you thought was going to happen when you said in like a Jeff Johns Barry Allen moment to the Ajax boys. Like you've heard the show, right?
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah. Like this is either like, This is either like someone who's who's missed, like somehow missed it, or this is trolling. I mean, i can I can accept that Greg actually likes this moment and thinks it is good. It ain't going on the list. Yeah, it's not going on the list. I don't think it's bad. I think it's i think it's fine.
01:01:40
Speaker
It's fine. I don't think it fits the definition of raw and it does not help that the writer of this book is, you know, ah Jeff and the artists of this book.
01:01:55
Speaker
You could not have said that in a more just Jeff derogatory. And the artist of this book is An actual threat, objectionable human being. Yes. Who is also a bad artist. Jesus Christ, this fucking sucks. Yeah, man. That's like a thing I never got is like, like, he's not like, he's not good. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm looking at this and like, who thought this was
01:02:34
Speaker
Who thought this was good? I mean, Jeff. And a lot of people. Clearly Jeff. I would say primarily Jeff. Yeah. B.G. Capital G. Not what I like. Not what I like. No, man, it's not for me. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, Greg. great Hey, Greg. Greg is having a rough couple of weeks listening to the show. Sorry, Greg.
01:03:03
Speaker
Here is a submission from Ted Anderson. Ah, Ted, my real life friend. Who says, ah he's not sure if this fits our definition of raw, but what's what's a wants to hear us discuss it. It's from Marvel Superheroes Secret Wars, 1984. Which Ted says is a miniseries full of pretty raw ass moments. Which is true. That's true. Yeah. That's true.
01:03:34
Speaker
But the one that sticks out to Ted is from issue number 10, where Dr. Doom fights the Beyonder. Yeah. That's like, that's very much like Dr. Doom, I think is a trickier character to write than people are going to well like, like think. Yeah. Not you have to realize that the The, like, the pretense of honor is just that, right? It is a pretense. You also have to acknowledge the fact that, like, actually he does own in some ways, though. Like, you have to do the thing where he's like, yeah, like i like the purple man can't touch me.
01:04:36
Speaker
like i Like, I am not a good guy. I am the guy who invented time travel.
01:04:45
Speaker
Like, and I think this, like the cover of this is to me like one of the iconic Dr. Doom images. Yes, it's great, actually. Yeah.
01:04:58
Speaker
Even though like in in practice in the comic, he is becoming a Doctor Doom action figure.
01:05:08
Speaker
like he's fully just like what The image depicted on this cover is Doctor Doom halfway into becoming Doctor Doom, the Secret Wars action figure. Well, that's kind of what Secret Wars is, right? like it's every but Every version of every character is kind of the action figure version.
01:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, but he's like really the action figure version. Yeah at the end of this. Yeah like this he's He like he doesn't have his cape because that action figure didn't have a said It's good as hell man. Like when dr. Dooms like oh that guy's got awesome awesome, let me follow let me fight him and absorb his power, because when I built this armor, I did make sure to put in some stuff where if i I ever fought God, I would be able to absorb power and become God. Very similar to what I did when I stole the Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic, because that is a thing that has been established that I can do, so it also makes sense in the context of this miniseries. Yeah.
01:06:22
Speaker
Just look at it right there on the page. There is a three panel sequence where he just becomes the Dr. Doom action figure hilarious No,
01:06:34
Speaker
no this is I mean look I Don't know if it is as raw a moment as him like I mean you want to talk about own I'm talking to the purple man his own. Oh, that's that's the big. Oh, yeah Yeah, and I don't think it's as Raw as when he does it to the Silver Surfer, which is kind of like the the prototype of this scene, or or if not the prototype, like it's the the one that is being referenced in this. But I mean, it's still pretty good. still pretty good. Still pretty tight. Secret Wars also has... Secret Wars got some good Raw in it.
01:07:17
Speaker
it it yeah I think it is thought of now as a primitive story. Cause it's the first real crossover, right? yeah i i' be a first event Yeah. And I don't think it's inaccurate to call it that, but I also think it is people forget how like actually pretty good secret Wars is. Yeah. No, like.
01:07:50
Speaker
go read Secret Wars 84 and then go read Crisis and see which one is a story.
01:08:03
Speaker
Cause like Secret Wars is a story. Like there's a plot to Secret Wars. Like for all that, it's like literally a disembodied voice shows up and says, Hey, I want to play with all my action figures. So fight.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it literally, Secret Wars is all the toys being taken out of the toy box to smash them against each other, but it's it is a good version of that. Yes, and it it is. It's a story. it it It has a beginning, middle, end. There are sequences in it.
01:08:42
Speaker
that are memorable and fun, it doesn't break anybody's character. It actually has like one of my favorite Reed Richards moments ah where they're ah they're trapped under the mountain that the Hulk is holding up. And so Reed is like trying to build something and Iron Man takes off his glove and it's Rhodey. And ah like, Rhodey says to Reed, he's like, he's like, hey, our like Like, are you surprised that there's a black guy underneath all this armor? And Reed goes, huh? Oh yeah, I mean, I assumed there was somebody piloting it. I didn't think it was just a robot. And that's like, look, it's 1985. It's Jim Shooter. It's as subtle as a hammer to the knees. That's also like a really fun Reed Richards moment to be like, you know, Rhodey is like asking him a question about race and Reed is just like,
01:09:41
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I figured there was a person in there. I don't like, what are you talking about? That's a really good read Richards moment. Yeah. It, it makes you like read in a way that read is not often written. Read is often written as unlikable in many ways. But what I like about the Dr. Doom stuff, like what Ted really focuses on in his submission is the sort of purple prose of of Doom wondering or or or struggling with the the concept of death, you know? And that stuff is good. But what I really love is that you see Doom being like taken apart and dissected by the Beyonder. Like he is he is ripped apart piece by piece, like all of his armor is ripped off and
01:10:38
Speaker
like it's it says like as his vision blurs and the ebony warped closes around his consciousness he fights on reaching groping and then three pages later he's like hey what's up i'm giant now and the beyonders dead yeah and you have that classic thing of like Doom monologuing through it? Doom? Doom is the original, uh, posting through it, guy. He really is. Cause he's like, he's like, is this how Doom is to meet death? No! It's like, I'm like, fuck yeah, dude. No, I'm going to eat God. I'm always going to eat God and give me God power. Yeah. It's great.
01:11:23
Speaker
it It's such a great, like, surprise outcome, you know, like, because you you really think Doom is done for here. Yeah. He's missing an arm and orbit a leg. On a very, like, storytelling level, like, we don't know what the Beyonders deal is, right?
01:11:49
Speaker
Like he's from beyond. You don't like, you don't see the Beyonder till secret wars two, which is not as good, but right ah you know what the Beyonder's deal is. Peter Parker does teach him how to shit. Peter Parker teaches him how to shit and he is in a Captain America body with, uh, with black hair. Yeah. Cause the Beyonder was like, that guy's got a rocking bod, which is true.
01:12:17
Speaker
I look hard to deny. So you you know that the Beyonder is powerful because the Beyonder kidnapped all your favorite Marvel Comics superheroes and took them to Battleworld and like made Battleworld and did all that stuff. But you don't really know what his deal is. You know what Dr. Doom's deal is. And now it's like, oh, so this unlimited power is no longer in the hands of like an unknowable Being it's in a dude that we know exactly what he's capable of like on a normal day. Yeah Like that's a really good ramp up and the fact that that's kind of the last act of Secret Wars is really good. It's really good Well, where's it go on the list? Uh, I don't I don't think it's as good as the purple band moment. I don't either I don't either I I think it's probably
01:13:17
Speaker
middle of the list. is it Is it as good as when Punisher kills Dr. Doom with a hammer? I mean, Clank Clank Clank Squish is pretty funny. It's pretty good, yeah. Yeah, it's probably better than that. Like I said, like when I think of of Dr. Doom images,
01:13:42
Speaker
It's not the iconic Dr. Doom image, but it is un-iconic Dr. Doom image. It's like in the top three for me is this one. Yeah. Uh, let's see. Is it better than Dr. Strange telling that guy that there is no heaven and it's all just hell? No. No. No. When Johnny Storm tells, ah when Dr. Strange tells Johnny Storm that God and the devil are the same thing and heaven and hell are also the same.
01:14:08
Speaker
Like, no, that is that is brought to the point of being theologically challenging.
01:14:17
Speaker
But I think it's right below that. Okay, so it makes it the new number 47 on the list. New number 47, yeah. Okay, very good. Ted, good submission. This next submission is from Isabel.
01:14:37
Speaker
the yeah starter of our discord the progenitor that's right the founder of the feast the founder of the feast ah and isabel's submission is uh is has this dialogue i am bane and i could kill you but death would only end your agony and silence your shame instead i will simply Break you. Cracked.
01:15:12
Speaker
Uh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. It's raw. My favorite part of that scene is, uh, when, honestly, what I think is the most raw part of that scene. Cause that, look, that was pretty raw, but right before that, Bane talks about, uh, uh, killing someone.
01:15:35
Speaker
And Batman's like, you would kill just for that? And Bane goes, I would kill to silence a voice that annoyed me. I would kill to dim the light in eyes that dared look at me. I kill for any reason. And that is what I would always ah post when people would ask me why I blocked them on Twitter.
01:16:03
Speaker
fight don't like I don't owe you answers. But no, that shit's pretty good, honestly. like in In case anyone needs it, anyone needs the specific number. um This is from Batman number 497. Yeah, it is. Yeah. ah's that's from That's from Nightfall, baby.
01:16:32
Speaker
which has Which gives it away on the cover. I mean, yeah, we all knew it was gonna happen. They sold that comic on you knowing it was gonna happen. But it does sort of kill the surprise of like, oh, I'm not gonna kill you, I'm gonna break you. I wish you would have said it that way. I'm gonna break you. I'm gonna break you. Get over here, boy. I'm gonna break you. I'm gonna break you. He's like my granddad.
01:17:06
Speaker
Go get a switch, I'm gonna break ya. Batman, you go, you go, you go cut a switch. Yeah, it is wild that that Kelly Jones and Jim Apparo do draw the same image. ah And you get to see that in two very different styles. You really, yeah, Kelly Jones does the cover and Bane is as wide as a truck. Yes. On that cover. And then, and then inside, yeah, the Jim Apparo art of it is ah far Far more proportional. Yeah. Bane's got some real hair on his body though. He really does. He is he is not doing that that wrestler body shaving thing. that said No, Judy Bagwell didn't didn't handle that. I don't believe that Judy Bagwell story. From the dark side of the ring. Didn't Buff Bagwell himself tell it?
01:18:06
Speaker
No, it was like, it was somebody else told who told that, was the one about Judy Bagwell shaving him. Oh, I guess so. I don't know. but Somebody else told that one. i I don't believe, I cannot believe that happened. I believe it entirely. Judy Bagwell is a mom who cared deeply about his, her son's career and would do anything to help it. Apparently.
01:18:37
Speaker
Apparently, she's a parent. I don't know, man. I don't know if I believe that one. Point being, Bain didn't even have... Judy Bain did not exist. Judy Bainwell. Judy Bainwell did not exist. What is Bain's real name? Like, we finally find out after all these years that it's Marcus Alexander Bainwell.
01:19:00
Speaker
That would be great. Oh, yeah. I'd pop for that. here's Here's my question, and and to me, this is a serious question. okay Is this more raw? Is this Bane moment more raw than Bane saying, here is your hero, your protector, take him and bury him? Because I think here is your hero, your protector, take him and bury him is raw as fuck. I mean, how is this not though? I mean, it is. It it is.
01:19:35
Speaker
Like, I'm not saying the other one's not raw, because it is, but like... It is raw to be like, hey, if I kill you, your pain ends. Yeah. But if I break you... Like, that's... that's a thing. I've said it before. Nightfall's good. That Nightfall is really good. Nightfall, up through Nightquest, is good as hell, actually. And Bane's a really good character.
01:20:06
Speaker
Uh, like Bane for all that he just looks like a luchador. Like, which I'm, which as you know, Matt, I don't think that's a bad thing, but I mean, he is a guy who just went to high spots and bought a mask and boots and a singlet. Like, like he's wearing boots with laces on them. You know, I do love that after he,
01:20:33
Speaker
says break you. He said he all he says is broken and done. Yeah. But like, the whole sequence is great. Like, uh, him, him telling Batman beg for mercy scream my name, uh, which little bit subtextual, uh, and Batman being like, fuck you, man. Which is what he would say if I was writing this, book I wouldn't let them have one fuck.
01:21:02
Speaker
I mean, you could have done, you could have done the, the, the wing things, but, uh, no, I would have had him say it, but what he says is go back to hell. Yeah. I think, I think, uh, I think the Zag notes are sometimes cowardly.
01:21:19
Speaker
DC, DC, DC Comics was still, still code approved. He could not say fuck you. But imagine if this book came out and it was like, yeah, the the climactic part of Nightfall is not code approved and Batman says, fuck. You sell twice as many copies. You would have like, they, it would have jumped off the shelves. It's not like this book needed any help selling well, but woo buddy.
01:21:50
Speaker
Chris, if i like much doug mon would be living in a mansion made of diamonds chris have I ever told you the story of i was when this was coming out, they were selling copies of this issue specifically on QVC or the home shopping network. I think you have told me the story, yeah? One or the other. at some For some reason,
01:22:18
Speaker
my brother and I were watching this, like selling copies of Batman for 97 on home shopping network or a QVC, one or the other. And this grown man calls in and you know, I'm 11 years old at the time. And so I, I'm,
01:22:46
Speaker
I'm shocked that you know adults our age are still reading comics. Little would I know. But this grown man who had to be around our age now calls in and is just talking about how it's so sad that they're c caught that they're killing superheroes. Why are they doing this? Because they killed Superman and now Batman's got his back broken and he is sobbing. He is sobbing on television.
01:23:15
Speaker
I'll never forget it for the rest of my life. How could you be so invested as to call and talk about this on QVC, but also not know how it worked? Well, i you know, it was 1993. Maybe, maybe it was not as clear at the time, because like, I do think people thought at the time that like, man, super Superman's dead. He is not coming back.
01:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't think anybody who cared thought that. Like, yeah, like, you know, average people like normal normies squares, think it. But if you're gonna have emotions about it, that guy had emotions, but never read the comics. Um, yeah, yeah. I really wish that that, uh,
01:24:10
Speaker
that the clip of that was on. God, I wish I had recorded it, but I just, I just watched it as it happened live and made a memory. Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't look, I have a lot of emotions about these things and I'm, I've been recorded having a lot of emotions broadcasting that I have a lot of emotions about these things. Sure. But I've also read them. I also know how it works. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:40
Speaker
ah All right, let's let let's let's write this i'm I'm I can put I I think it is probably right to put it above Here is your hero, which is it number 39? If Batman would have said fuck I Think this is top ten material But he doesn't he says go to hell I but I honestly I don't think it's as good as Batman versus Prometheus round two. Okay. I would put it below that. I would probably put it, I mean, I i might put it right above the other moment. Well, I think they're of a piece, right? I think they're very similar in impact and effect. Yeah. Cause I mean, like it, it bears repeating that like this had not happened before.
01:25:40
Speaker
You know? Yeah. No one had ever beaten Batman in a fight. Like, Superman didn't beat Batman in a fight. ah This certainly hadn't happened to Batman. Yeah. Like, it had happened to other characters. Not this exact thing, but like, similar, like, being beaten. Right? Especially in Marvel books. But like, it it was shocking to see this happen to Batman.
01:26:11
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I mean, this, this happened to Robin. and well but man um Robin. Yeah. Robin was murdered. Yeah. But I mean, like, look if you look at, I mean, maybe it's because Jim Caro drew both, but like, look at that last page. That to me feels like very reminiscent of, of Robin getting got. I mean, I think that's, on I think that's on purpose, right? I mean, it has to be.
01:26:38
Speaker
Yeah. i I would say plus like, I will simply break you. Like that's, that's iconic. Like that's, Oh yeah. I mean, okay. Is that stolen from Rocky four? Absolutely. Yes. Okay. I must break you. Kinda undeniable, I think. Yeah. But yeah.
01:27:08
Speaker
Uh, I above or below Jesse Custer fights Jodi. Uh, below. I think it goes right above the other nightfall movement. Okay. All right. I think they have to get together. We'll put that at the new number 39. Yeah.
01:27:31
Speaker
Maybe one more. We only do have time to do three of these tonight because we talked about QVC and Batman's Info. I mean, uh, talking is the show. Yeah. ah Look, I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to establish timeline. Uh, this submission is from Nick Whalen and it is from, uh, Frank, the part in Frankenstein, agent of shade, when his mobby pal got killed by an invisible man and Frankenstein got his immediate revenge.
01:28:03
Speaker
It's from Frankenstein, Asian of Shade, number seven. I have not read that. i I know I read some of this book when it was coming out.
01:28:16
Speaker
ah But essentially what happens is ah this mummy, Kalis, gets its head cut off by an invisible man. And then Frankenstein just chokes that invisible man right to death.
01:28:34
Speaker
Immediately. I mean, that sounds pretty good. I like, I have thought like, Hey, what if I read all the new 52 stuff again? Yeah. And really what I want to do is read Frankenstein agent of shade. Like that's the thing I actually want to read. That's the new 52 book that like, I think I'm the saddest went away. But like, it's also like,
01:29:03
Speaker
An incredibly hard sell. I mean, is it though? For audiences in 2011, yeah. Yeah, I guess. People wanted armor and high collars, not Frankenstein. Yeah, it's, yes. They want a hot new take on Frankenstein by a guy who sucks. Like, we talk all the time about how like, oh, why don't more people do, like, pick up on Grant Morrison's stuff and do something with it, right?
01:29:32
Speaker
But like at the same time, there's a reason. ah Marketability is the reason. Yeah, but like that shoulds that shit's good, though. It's good to us because we read it and like it and keep up with it. Yeah, but and we're the ones who are still going to be here tomorrow. That's true. That's true.
01:29:59
Speaker
But how many of us are there? That's the question. That's true. Look, there will be more to us, more of us if they they did more comics with Frankenstein in them. Good point. Good points all around. Uh, yeah, I don't think I got to number seven of Frankenstein Agent of Shade. yeah I don't, I don't think we can rank this one, but man, like I do, like that is, that might have to be a comics catch up just to satisfy my curiosity of was this book was this Is this book the the buried treasure, the hidden gem, that I both believe it to be and also honestly want it to be? Yeah, great question. Agent of Shade is is going on the catch-up list for sure. Yeah. of ah Again, of all the new 52 books, that's the one that I would most like to get back at.
01:31:00
Speaker
I feel like Demon Knights was probably pretty good. But I feel like Demon Knights is an even harder sell. Another follow-up on something Grant Morrison started? yeah yeah ah Yeah. Yeah. I do not think we have time to adequately discuss the next submission. So I'm going to call it here.
01:31:25
Speaker
Well, I want to know what it is. I want to know what it is. All right. Here's, this is a tease for the next time we do raw. The next submission is, uh, KG beast cutting off his own hand. Boy.
01:31:40
Speaker
Do you not want to talk about that right now? We do not have time, but it's going to go on the list. I'll tell you that much. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's folks. You got it.
01:31:55
Speaker
who Greg, you were like, hey, maybe they'll have some nice things to say about this Jeff Johns comic about Barry Allen. And that, you know, you you tried and I respect the trying, but that that didn't work. All these other people were just like, what about Batman fighting fucking freak maniacs?
01:32:18
Speaker
I'll tell you this, the next handful of raw submissions
01:32:27
Speaker
all bangers, all fucking top bangers. Oh, I'm very excited. I'm very excited. Matt, can we do this next week? We'll see. We'll see. All right. All right. But i like that the next one is going to be like raw greatest hits or something like that, because absolute bangers to come.
01:32:53
Speaker
ah So, come back and listen for that whenever we do Raw again. If you would like to make a Thursday Night Raw submission, you can do it at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail dot.com. That is also where you can send every story, every list, or ah listener questions, or let us ah know if you want to sponsor the show, or get in touch about anything else.
01:33:16
Speaker
You can also get in touch with us on Tumblr at warrocketpodcast.tumblr dot.com. We're on Blue Sky, warrocketajax.bsky.social. Our Patreon, you can message us there if you're on our Patreon, or you can join our Discord. You have to be invited to be a member of our Discord, but ask us nicely on any of those places I just mentioned, and we will get you an invitation to our Discord. And you can join and be part of that ah community.
01:33:46
Speaker
Um, which I think is entering year three of existing. Oh, wow. So, uh, it is still going strong over there. Lots of conversations still happening on our discord. So go join or ask us for an invitation to join and we'll get you one. That's right. Everybody. It's a lonely place of dying over at, uh, over at the Ajax discord. Not really. That's a joke. If you know the subtitle of Batman year three,
01:34:16
Speaker
ah Our website is warrockitajax.com. It has every episode of the show we've ever done. ah You can also go to warrockitwiki.com to see the good hat talked about earlier in the show, as well as many, many other things about this show, War Rocket Ajax. Lots of info over there. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you?
01:34:41
Speaker
People can find me by going to the-isb dot.com. That is my website. It has some links. It's also got a thing that I wrote that if you haven't read it yet, maybe you would like to. I'm working on a second thing, but it's going to require more research. Can you guess what it is? Not you, Matt. You already know what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can tell everybody it's good. Good. Good. But also you can find me here and on Apocalypse. That's the that's a big ones.
01:35:10
Speaker
Thank you for listening, everybody. Until next time, don't forget Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights, as are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. Cops aren't your friends. But we love you. We love you.