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Comics Catch-Up 068: The Shadow (1987)
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We read the entirety of the Andy Helfer/Bill Sienkiewicz/Kyle Baker run on The Shadow from the late 80s, and there's never been a more cocaine-paced comic. Is that good? Listen and learn!
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Introduction to Comics Catch-Up and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:28
Speaker
This is Comics Catch-Up. Hey, twerp, you better not be mine. Come on, come on.
00:00:51
Speaker
where we read comics suggested by you, the listeners of War Rocket Ajax, that we have missed. Oh, hey! It's been a minute.
00:01:03
Speaker
Why don't we catch up? With some comics, that is. That's right, this is Comics Catch-Up. It is the ah War Rocket Ajax spinoff podcast, where we, your hosts, catch up on some comics that we might have missed.
00:01:17
Speaker
My
The 1987 Shadow Series Overview
00:01:18
Speaker
name is Chris Sims. With me is Matt Wilson. Matt! um Are you ready to catch up? I am indeed. And the book that we are specifically catching up on, we had to skip the March catch-up because of illness.
00:01:38
Speaker
ah But the March catch-up was intended to be half of the 1987 Shadow series published by DC Comics.
00:01:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Entirely written by Andy Helfer, but with ah art by mostly Bill Sienkiewicz and Kyle Baker.
00:02:02
Speaker
Well, does anyone else draw it? Because Sienkiewicz does the first six, I think, and then it's Baker for the rest of the way. i I thought seven might have been by somebody different, but yeah.
00:02:15
Speaker
There is one issue with different art by Marshall Rogers. all Also an all-timer. Yeah. ah But the rest of it is all by Sienkiewicz and Baker. yeah um So we we we're just going to do the whole series on this episode instead of splitting it into halves. There were 19 issues of this series, even though it seemed like there were plans for more.
00:02:45
Speaker
oh yeah. it's It literally says at the end of number 19, next. next ah Next story arc part one. I went looking to see if there was some like follow-up series or something to this.
00:03:04
Speaker
ah hu No, it just ended. yeah they just yeah They just decided that's that's it. That's all. yeah the Right, the last issue ends with next, Nuts and Bolts part one.
00:03:18
Speaker
Well, we never got Nuts and Bolts part one. I mean, here's what's weird. They did publish an Andy Helfer, Kyle Baker, Justice Incorporated two-issue prestige format mini that has nothing to do with this. But it was but it was promoted like when you saw him in the pages of The Shadow.
00:03:44
Speaker
And then and then It is unrelated to these events. Yeah. So, we're going to be talking about these 19 issues on this episode.
Art and Storytelling Critique of The Shadow
00:03:56
Speaker
And... As I understand it, as I have gotten from the like letter pages in these issues, from...
00:04:08
Speaker
from I don't know, reputation, because you knew about this book, for sure. i did. I had never read it, but I was – I mean, it's it's hard to not notice, at the very least, those Kyle Baker covers.
00:04:23
Speaker
For sure, yeah. they
00:04:26
Speaker
I'll say this from from Jump Street. The reason to revisit this book is the art. Yeah. Without question.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. The Sienkiewicz art is great. The Kyle Baker art is great. Yeah, Baker, legitimately some of the best covers of his career and some of the like coolest images of the shadow.
00:04:55
Speaker
The cover number nine is like iconic. The interior art ain't half bad either. Yeah. it's, it's artistically a stunning book that is beautifully drawn throughout.
00:05:16
Speaker
Like, I can't say anything bad about the art in any of these issues. The story on the other hand is, is, is something totally different.
00:05:32
Speaker
Um, But as as far as I can tell, this is a book that was well regarded as it was coming out, for sure. And probably has a reputation as being, if nothing else, influential.
00:05:51
Speaker
It definitely – like, this started in, what, 87? 87, yeah. And it definitely feels like a proto-Vertigo book. Yes.
00:06:02
Speaker
In every way. Well, the the point I was going to make about it, about its method of storytelling,
00:06:11
Speaker
is that it does what so many mature readers' DC books of this era do.
00:06:22
Speaker
For good and ill. And it tells its story in... a very indirect and convoluted way that is both cool, but also frustrating as a reader.
00:06:45
Speaker
Like it's a lot, I mean, it's a lot of people's complaints about Grant altogether, but like you would go back and read Doom Patrol and it is, it is an,
00:06:58
Speaker
indirectly told story in in many regards. I think Doom Patrol is better than this. But this is also a comic that really seems intent on not telling its story to you in an A to B to C kind of fashion on purpose.
00:07:21
Speaker
To make it more, i don't know, elevated or or whatever you want to call it. I mean, that's that's one way to put it. ah The way that I would put it is, there's a lot of shit in here that didn't need to be.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yes, I agree with that too. yeah There's just just a weird amount of comics that doesn't need to be here.
00:07:45
Speaker
And a weird repetitiveness to it. And too many people in the cast...
00:07:54
Speaker
I mean, I think that is – as I was reading this, I definitely had – I questioned several times whether some of my criticisms of it are problems with this comic itself or problems with The Shadow.
00:08:14
Speaker
i don't – that's an interesting question, Matt. Yeah. Because the reason we read this, the reason we chose this as a book – to to read was because we read the ah Batman Shadow crossover book a while back, which was good, right?
00:08:37
Speaker
um And that got you to wondering whether this book was you know worth revisiting, like a good one to go back to.
00:08:53
Speaker
and
00:08:56
Speaker
Am I wrong in thinking that that Batman Shadow book... That was Scott Snyder, right? ah ah it was ah It was Snyder and Tynan, right? ah correct Yes. and
Character Complexity and Plot Challenges
00:09:09
Speaker
Or Steve Orlando. Steve Orlando.
00:09:12
Speaker
And Riley Rossmo did the art. And, you know, that book was good. but but it was a very like It was a very streamlined version of The Shadow, I feel like. yeah i mean like here's Here's the problem with reading...
00:09:26
Speaker
the Andy Helfer, Bill Sienkiewicz, Kyle Baker shadow as a piece. It spins directly out of the events of the four-issue Howard Chaikin shadow miniseries from 1986.
00:09:45
Speaker
So a lot of stuff is set up there. That you can read like a big text piece on the inside front cover of the Shadow No. 1 and kind of be caught up on.
00:10:00
Speaker
But it means that like from Jump Street, it's honest to God like reading X-Men.
00:10:12
Speaker
like There's a bunch of characters. I don't know who any of them are. their relationships aren't really established all that well. Like, we don't open on the shadow. We open in Shadow No. 1 on Twitch.
00:10:31
Speaker
Twitch. Twitchkowitz. Twitchkowitz. And, like, it's weird. Like, that then there's a ah lady in an iron lung doing phone sex.
00:10:44
Speaker
That first issue is bonkers. Like, it very much – like, that's what i'm I mean when I say it's like a proto-Vertigo book, because it is – The first issue, I think, is the most aggressively, like,
00:11:00
Speaker
telling you that it's not going to give you – it's never going to give it to you straight. I think it gets much more easy to read and digestible and understandable by the end.
00:11:13
Speaker
Weirdly enough, why I like the second half of this comic a lot more than the first half. I think that is true in that like I had a decent idea of who all the characters were at that point.
00:11:27
Speaker
Because I had read 10 issues. But like the the the the wrestler nurse who's introduced at the very beginning of issue one, new. she's new right and And instead of the shadow, we see her beating up some biker dude at the first the at the first moment of this issue after Twischkvitz injects him with some weird drug.
00:11:56
Speaker
and then And then she eventually ends up joining the crew, right? Yeah. And then ah Lamont Cranston shows up and dies, I think? But that's a second Lamont Cranston?
00:12:06
Speaker
That's a different... That's ah actually a third Lamont Cranston? Now, I think that's a carryover from the Chaikin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this shadow is... He's still using the Lamont Cranston identity, but...
00:12:26
Speaker
There's this other Lamont Cranston here. ah And like it's it fully establishes repeatedly and multiple times that this shadow is Ying Ko, and his two sons are here all the time in their flying car. Yeah, I didn't know about i didn't know about ah the shadow's two sons in their flying car.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. But see, here's the thing. and And this is what I didn't quite understand, because I'm not mega familiar with... The Shadow, like the radio show, like the old Shadow stories, that much.
00:13:05
Speaker
So part of it is like, how much... because i well i do Here's one thing I do know about the radio show. The radio show had a big ensemble cast.
00:13:18
Speaker
And the Shadow had his like massive network of agents that worked for him. To help him with his war on crime. like Harry Vincent and Margot Lane have always been part of it.
00:13:32
Speaker
In this book, they're old. Just like they were in Shadow Batman. Right. Because this book takes place in 1987 and 1988.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yes. And the Shadow was thought to have been dead, but is back now and has not aged.
00:13:58
Speaker
due to things. The shadow is complicated. and due to Due to being from from
Plot Twists and Narrative Criticism
00:14:07
Speaker
like you know a magical city.
00:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, well, he's not from there, though. He just lived there for a while. i mean, it's definitely his connection to it that I think gives him, I don't know, apparent immortality or whatever.
00:14:24
Speaker
Um, what is it called again? Shambhala. Shambhala. I wanted, I always want to call it Shangri-La, but I know that's wrong. It's Shambhala. No, it's, it's, it's Shambhala. Like, uh, like Damballa, the, uh, the God that gives, uh, your murder doll his murder powers.
00:14:43
Speaker
Yes. Damballa, give me the power. I beg of you. Um, and it's like that three dog night song about the, all the halls of Shambhala. Uh,
00:14:55
Speaker
So i like i've I went and looked up like the big list of his agents, and there are a lot of them. There were a lot of them in the radio show.
00:15:07
Speaker
But these are all different characters, other than Harry and Margo.
00:15:15
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's him having like a bunch of different agents working for him. is very representative of the shadow, but these are different agents that he had in earlier shadow stuff.
00:15:33
Speaker
It seems like. Right. And I think it's fine. Like, I think it's fine for the shadow to have a network of operatives. And I think it's cool if he has like, you know, a, a core group that he relies on for stuff.
00:15:51
Speaker
In the same way that I think it's cool for like Batman to have Oracle and Alfred and... i was about to say Harold, but I actually don't think it's cool for Alfred to have Harold. um You mean Batman. Batman to have Harold. Yeah, for Batman to have Harold. Sorry.
00:16:04
Speaker
ah But, like, they're the main characters of the book, and I get why that is, because the shadow is, as presented to us, pretty one-dimensional.
00:16:19
Speaker
But also, then don't write him like that.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, like, ah my top criticism of this book is that the Shadow sucks.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, the Shadow's kind of a sucky guy. Like, he treats his network of agents really poorly. Yeah.
00:16:50
Speaker
He's constantly like giving them weird tests and ways that they have to prove themselves to him. They all call him Master, which feels bad.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, that that is a that is a weird holdover from the forty s Yeah. yeah. Yeah. And he's like he's always just like ordering them around and yelling at them when he thinks that they don't like aren't living up to his standard or whatever. And like he's not a good or likable guy.
00:17:26
Speaker
and and and anytime he does anything, anytime he gets involved in anything, it's always the same thing. Where he just pops up, he shoots his guns, and laughs.
00:17:39
Speaker
yeah And like I know that's what the Shadow does, but like that's not a character I could really get behind. Everything in here is the Shadow in the Royal Rumble. like He makes his entrance, he does his finisher to pop the crowd, and then he leaves.
00:18:05
Speaker
And it's like, you gotta do something. Yeah. Yeah. So, like...
00:18:16
Speaker
Let me see if I can remember who all of the different agents are. Because there's Twitchkvitz, who's like the kind of like medicine doctor guy. Yeah, he's an ex... I don't think he was a drug dealer, but he was like a drug chemist. Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, something like that. yeah Eventually – okay. To jump to the end, this book gets a lot better in the last few issues when the Shadow dies.
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah. And even prior to that, the Shadow's barely in it in some issues. Yeah. But once the Shadow dies, like we see the agents all kind of like come into their own and – and work together to achieve the Shadow's mission, mission but they're not constantly being yelled at.
00:19:09
Speaker
And, um, they do a little bit of, uh, Raid of the Supermen with the Shadow. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's exactly what I thought as well. Yeah. And, um, one of them is Twitchkavits, who, um...
00:19:27
Speaker
becomes, what's called? The Inoculator? The Inoculator. Yeah, he's he's one of the Shadow Replacements as the Inoculator. Which is pretty good. like i kind of like that stuff.
00:19:41
Speaker
ah Because he uses like syringes and and medicines instead of guns and bullets. Yeah. ah It's... Look.
00:19:56
Speaker
I like Batman. I like the X-Men. So when I say this, I need you to know how much it has to be.
00:20:11
Speaker
The Shadow's complicated, and the Shadow's too complicated. We've referred to him by three different names and haven't mentioned the fourth one.
00:20:23
Speaker
That's true. And there will be like stories in this book where he will be referred to by various names without any explanation. And like I know why this lady is calling him Kent Allard, and why he is sometimes called Yinko, and why he is sometimes called The Shadow.
00:20:44
Speaker
But the amount The amount you have to know about The Shadow to read this book, is it's a high barrier of entry.
00:20:55
Speaker
It's a high barrier of entry, because very little is explained to you. And there's also like not a page. I know that it's because it says mature readers on the cover, and they're I'm sure they're like, oh, they'll figure it out.
00:21:08
Speaker
Andy Helfer, I'm sure, and the editors, who are Mike Gold and Mike Carlin... I'm sure their thought was, this is a mature reader's book. We don't need to give them a page where we just put every character on a big two-page spread and say what their names are and what they do.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you know this man this was a didnt help glossy cover, Baxter paper book that was almost certainly only sold in comic book stores. Yeah.
00:21:35
Speaker
But like, okay, so there's Twitchkvitz. There's Harry and Margot, who we see a bunch There's the lady in the iron lung who whose name I don't even know. I think she's Lorelei.
00:21:50
Speaker
Lorelei. Okay, she doesn't really appear that much. um She also has a chimp named Cody. ah she has ah She has a helper chimp.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah. um There's Elton, who... i i've never quite really and I never quite really understood his role among the agents, but he is easily the most put-upon and harmed member of the agents group just by being a part of it.
00:22:22
Speaker
Because at one point we see that he's a teacher and he loses his job because he works for the Shadow. Well... but...
00:22:34
Speaker
e But all also some other shit goes down. Some other shit goes down, but like essentially like there's this thing where – well, okay, there's this whole story about – it's a one-issue story.
00:22:46
Speaker
I think it's the one issue that's not drawn by either – Yeah, it's the Marshall Rogers issue. Weirdly enough, my favorite of the run, maybe – it's the but It's the most contained story of all of them, for sure.
00:23:01
Speaker
There's ah there's a an issue where they all where they go to Washington, D.C., and there's this kid who gets – this kid named Harold. Harold Sims. Uh-huh.
00:23:12
Speaker
Who's fat.
00:23:15
Speaker
Fuck this. Who – um
00:23:20
Speaker
Decides that he has to kill the president?
Supporting Characters and Pacing Issues
00:23:22
Speaker
Yes. He's going to kill Ronald Reagan so that there will be a war, so that he can be a war hero. ah very Very weird kid logic ah assassination plot.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah. He does not end up killing the president, but he does shoot a Secret Service agent. And ah then the Shadow has to kill him. Again.
00:23:49
Speaker
Not a good guy. Yeah, no, that that child fully dies. That shadow gets murked. The shadow shoots him in the head.
00:24:03
Speaker
Does he? I thought oh technically the kid fall he falls and is yes impaled on a model of the Washington Monument. That's what happens, yeah.
00:24:14
Speaker
ah The shadow doesn't actually kill him, but he's like standing there with his guns out. yeah As if he would have to do it. yeah i mean mean and At that point, this kid has like shot multiple people in the face.
00:24:26
Speaker
like yeah Yeah, that's right. The Shadow says at the end that he was merely an observer of this. But that kid was in Elton's class on a class trip. And so that's that is ultimately why Elton loses his job.
00:24:39
Speaker
But like... I don't know. I feel really bad for Elton. like He just keeps getting fucked over... By trying to do the right thing.
00:24:52
Speaker
And that's like the core of his character. Yeah. And there's a part after the Shadow dies, and Harry, who's 78 years old, tries to be the new Shadow.
00:25:06
Speaker
And it doesn't work. yeah Yeah. he's the first of He's the first in the reign of the Shadows. Yeah. And then... After all that goes down, Elton's like, yeah, but we can still carry on his mission.
00:25:18
Speaker
And you definitely expect him to be like, so I'll be the shadow. And i don't like I don't know if that was like the initial plan, because it felt to me like that was the obvious choice of where it was going.
00:25:36
Speaker
But then he's like, but none of us are leaders. We're all followers. We need somebody we can follow. So it can't be me. Yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
So we just need to find somebody new that we can follow and beat the shadow. And I'm like, okay, is this a
00:25:57
Speaker
is this a, you know, 1988 DC comics? We are going to introduce the new shadow and he's going to be a a black guy who was a teacher in the inner city. in New York, because that's you know that's interesting, that's compelling, even for a single story arc.
00:26:13
Speaker
And then that just kind of like doesn't happen. so And it also like it feels like an obvious choice that also just didn't happen.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah. i Instead, what they do is they find another old guy, the Avenger, and decide And try to convince him to be the new Shadow.
00:26:40
Speaker
and And ultimately he's like, no. No, I don't want to do it. Yeah. ah The Avenger from ah from Justice Incorporated, who is also not like other... like he He is definitely like...
00:26:59
Speaker
the the The Shadow is, in the modern day, not that famous. And the Avengers, like, the D-list version of the Shadow in that regard. Right. Like, you might have heard of Doc Savage, and the Avengers, like, eighteenth down on that list of characters, right? But he's the other Condé Nast character that they that you get when you license the Shadow, I guess.
00:27:25
Speaker
So... Right. Yeah, the but he's, like... For one thing, he's not... like His whole deal is that he's gray.
00:27:37
Speaker
like He's he's ah like gray skin, white hair, and then he can disguise and also doesn't feel pain and and i guess can change his face to look like other people.
00:27:51
Speaker
Too many fucking gimmicks, honestly. lot of gimmicks on that guy. Give me that shade-changer gimmick. Like...
00:28:03
Speaker
But when he shows up, he's like he's like kind of a friendly old man. Yeah. he's Well, he first shows up as like ah this huge threat. Like, he's he's going to go after Twitchkiewicz, because Twitchkiewicz – the inoculator kills some dirty cops.
00:28:26
Speaker
But what it becomes – the story becomes that he's a cop killer, right? isn't So the Avenger is sent to take him out because he's killing cops.
00:28:43
Speaker
But when he finally gets to where Twitchikovich is and and meets the rest of the Shadow's agents, he he understands what they're doing and turns out to be a friendly older guy.
00:28:57
Speaker
And they're like, why don't you lead us? And he's just like, nah. Yeah.
00:29:04
Speaker
He just says he can't. He's like, yeah, you know, i used to do that, and I don't want to do it anymore because I'm old. Yeah. And, alright. Okay. Then what was the point of this?
00:29:17
Speaker
I mean, I think at the point of it was Andy Helfer wanted to do Reign of the Supermen with Shadow. Six years before
00:29:27
Speaker
Reign the Yeah, this is right before Reign the Superman, but it's it is exactly that idea. definitely ah it definitely echoes through the ages. oh Because because you get you get – the first one is Harry, who like puts on a shadow costume and tries to be the shadow.
00:29:50
Speaker
The second one is Twitchkovich as the inoculator. Then you get the old – D-list version of the Shadow, who's the Avenger, and then eventually get the Shadow himself, who becomes the Cyborg Shadow.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, the Shadow ah and Shuang Khan, the Shadow's archenemy, both become cyborgs. And get robot bodies. And honestly, that is the most excited...
00:30:16
Speaker
I was during the whole series, and then it ended. Yeah, I feel like this book has a reputation of being like, they did something so kill silly that it killed the book.
00:30:26
Speaker
You know? And I can't imagine that's the case, because it wasn't any sillier than it had been for the previous year, at least. Yeah.
00:30:37
Speaker
Like, in the issues before that, the Shadow's Two Sons... on their way to Shambhala, instead go to a town called Malice, which is also in the like some remote valley in China. and Right. Which is literally like next door to a missile base.
00:31:00
Speaker
Next door to a missile base. And it's run by this like weird cartoon judge who sentences everybody to death. And they meet a bunch of kids who live in an arcade.
00:31:18
Speaker
That's what happens. That's what happens on page.
00:31:22
Speaker
Like, it was silly already, man.
00:31:28
Speaker
Like, page one, panel panel one there's ah a huge, burly nurse who was a wrestler. Like, it wasn't taking itself that seriously, man.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah. Would you like to tell everyone how you described this book? In text messages to me? i don't even remember what I said.
00:31:52
Speaker
Matt, you referred to it as being the most cocaine-paced book I've ever read. It is a very cocaine comic, yeah. Yeah. And... yeah not Not in the, oh man, how'd you guys come up with that one? Were you on drugs sort of way?
00:32:07
Speaker
But in the, whoa, slow down. Slow the fuck down. Slow the fuck down. i don't know what's happening. um you're You're going really fast, but you keep saying the same thing over and over. Yeah, you're going super fast, but nothing makes sense.
00:32:25
Speaker
This book is drawn... On a six to eight panel grid. um Every page. That's so much.
00:32:37
Speaker
I mean, there are some splash pages, and there are some two-page spreads. But almost every page is six to eight panels, yeah.
00:32:51
Speaker
I thought I had read ten issues of this. And I hadn't finished with the Sienkiewicz stuff, which is one to six. Yeah. It's like... And i I've read a lot of Kyle Baker books.
00:33:10
Speaker
Kyle Baker loves to do an eight-panel grid, or a six-panel grid. But not when it's like this much text and this much stuff that is not being explained.
00:33:23
Speaker
Like... It's a hard book to read.
Story Arcs and Series Conclusion
00:33:29
Speaker
Just like in pure, like, again, I'm not dumb. i ah I, if there's one thing I'm good at, it's reading comics. ah But it is, it's a tough one to get through.
00:33:43
Speaker
It's dense in a way. We did not finish naming all of the the shadow core, by the way. No, i I continually forget her name, even though she's probably the... Mavis, yes.
00:33:58
Speaker
Mavis is the like tech expert who is kind of the main character of the series, if we're being real. She feels like she's the viewpoint character, except that she's only in like a quarter of it.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like we see more of her and we're with her more than anybody. Yeah. um And then another key character, not a member of the agents, but a key character, is um the cop who's either... His loyalties constantly change. like it sounds like It seems like he's so trying to take down the Shadow, and then other times it seems like he's kind of riding the Shadow's coattails.
00:34:42
Speaker
He's doing both. He's like definitely... benefiting from the Shadow's crime fighting, but also the Shadow's of vigilante, and he wants to bring him down. But he just kind of, in doing so, he is the in the closest proximity whenever the Shadow takes somebody out.
00:34:59
Speaker
Joe Cardona is his name. Matt Cardona. Matt Cardona. The cop, Matt Cardona. um Don't forget about ah Percy Jennifer.
00:35:12
Speaker
Oh, sure. Percy Jennifer. And then there's the private eye whose name you said we needed to spend 15 minutes talking about. Yeah, we might need spend 15 minutes talking about how there's character in this book named Dick Magnet. He's essentially the Slam Bradley of this.
00:35:32
Speaker
um He's a private eye that keeps getting hired by different people to find people that they're looking for. um He becomes a key part. there's There's a long-ass story.
00:35:45
Speaker
It's like most of the issues that Kyle Baker draws. it's It's how many parts? um God. Seven Deadly Fins.
00:35:59
Speaker
Very long.
00:36:02
Speaker
it There's only six parts, but it feels like it goes on for a long, time. feels like it's fucking the long Halloween. So that story is about the Shadow having a grudge against a crime family.
00:36:15
Speaker
called the Fens, who, ah like I don't know, they do different crimes. There's seven brothers. Each of them does a different kind of crime.
00:36:29
Speaker
yeah More than anything else, it reminded me of, like I thought it was going to go in in the direction of like the Manucci stuff from from oh Punisher, it doesn't.
00:36:42
Speaker
yeah but it doesn't even though their mother does show up and is gross. that Yes, that's the most that it's like Punisher at any point. yeah um But there's there's this bit about how they own like a hot dog factory, and they like put corpses in the hot dog mix, and so they're making people eat human flesh.
00:37:05
Speaker
ah But they accidentally put a guy in there who has like a diamond tooth, And so somebody finds a diamond in a hot dog, and then they have to make it a whole thing out of it where it's like a prize.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, like, oh, we meant to put diamonds in the hot dogs. Yeah. And that's just one of the brothers. There are so many. And they discover what's going on at that hot dog factory at least twice.
00:37:32
Speaker
At least twice. um But they're all doing different crimes. They all have different businesses. And then, like, how do all of them meet their end? The Shadow just fucking shoots him.
00:37:45
Speaker
yeah He goes into a room that they're in, and he just shoots him. Yeah, and then the last one, who the Shadow doesn't shoot, because he shoots the wrong brother by mistake, um he hires terrorist?
00:38:00
Speaker
Who in turn hires six terrorists? or five ah homicidal maniacs from like Arkham Asylum. Yeah. And again, again, the Empire State Building.
00:38:15
Speaker
There is a story in this where a plane crashes into the Empire State Building talking about predicting things years before they happen. Yeah, man. Buckwild. Reading this book is like a fever dream.
00:38:29
Speaker
Cocaine paste. It's so cocaine paste. And it's also like,
00:38:36
Speaker
like if you if If the whole thing is like, hey, there's these seven brothers in the shadow and they do crimes and the shadow shot them. like Why is it so complicated to get there?
00:38:48
Speaker
Why are we going through all of this stuff to get there? but there's a whole the Dick Magnet is introduced in that story as a private eye that is hired by both the Finns and the Shadow's agents to find people.
00:39:02
Speaker
It is really like if Garth Ennis couldn't pace a comic.
00:39:08
Speaker
Like, very much so. Because, the like, what do you want out of the shadow, right? You want to see some dudes doing crimes, like, doing a murder, and then you get creepy laughter, and someone says the weed of crime bears bitter fruit and blows those dudes away.
00:39:24
Speaker
That's basically the Punisher. Right. It's the Punisher with the catchphrase. Right. And there are entertaining Punisher stories from this era. Right.
00:39:37
Speaker
I don't know why it has to be this complicated.
00:39:43
Speaker
It is a lot of stuff to get through to get to
00:39:52
Speaker
what is a pretty basic result. You know? Like, speaking of the Finn's mom, um she's gross in a different way than Manucci is gross.
00:40:08
Speaker
But um she also has got a big gorilla. She also has a helper gorilla. That's how they find her. Even though... like
00:40:19
Speaker
She's just their mom, and it does not seem like it would be difficult to just look up their name and be like, oh, this is where she lives. Correct. um But anyway, she's got a helper gorilla, and there's a bit where the Shadow fights the gorilla that's somewhat reminiscent of...
00:40:36
Speaker
ah the Punisher fighting various animals in Garth Ennis comics. it's It's this book's version of the Punisher fighting the Russian. Yeah, yeah. it's It's more like that than than the Punisher punching that polar bear, I guess. But here's here's the thing, though.
00:40:54
Speaker
here's And here's the problem with this book. While the Shadow is fighting a fucking gorilla, most of that sequence is...
00:41:05
Speaker
The Finn brother and his mom talking while that's happening in another room and him going, I gotta get out of here. And it's like, why don't you show us the shadow fight in the fucking gorilla?
00:41:19
Speaker
If...
00:41:23
Speaker
I'm not saying that there can't be good dialogue-heavy comics, because they can't there can be. love dialogue. Like, you know, Chris Claremont.
00:41:34
Speaker
Like, we brought up X-Men. Claremont X-Men is good. But there is so much fucking dialogue in this comic. And you could cut out half of it, probably.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. um Number 13, which has the shadow fighting a gorilla on the cover. And is the final act of of Seven Deadly Fins, a story that goes on so long, is on an eight-panel grid.
00:42:08
Speaker
Throughout. Throughout. Like, almost every page, except for there's a splash page at the end, and there's a couple pages where you get like a half splash, right? Because that's also the issue where the Shadow dies. One of those Arkham Asylum freaks blows some poison in his face, and he dies.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, man. ah That's also the issue where the Shadow dies, fighting a completely different dude. yeah none of it and you don't None of it is the parts you want to see.
00:42:39
Speaker
like There's a part where Twitch, we think, is dead because he got ah dosed by this poison doctor. And then um like they find his body, and the cops like, yeah, that guy's dead.
00:42:53
Speaker
And then all the guys find out that Twitch is dead. And then they take Twitch to the morgue, and they're like getting ready to do the autopsy, And he wakes up.
00:43:05
Speaker
Because it's like, oh, the guy actually ah just simulated his death because he actually liked him and didn't want to kill him. yeah You did not have to give us every step of the locating the body, taking him to the morgue, discussing how he died, and of then starting the autopsy.
00:43:22
Speaker
we didn't need all that. We don't see the shadow fighting a gorilla.
00:43:29
Speaker
We see it for ah five panels. Yeah. Cocaine pacing, man. Yeah. If it sounds like this book doesn't make any sense, it's because this book is like two dudes telling you about a comic they read.
00:43:48
Speaker
like There's a lot of like, oh yeah, i forgot about this guy in thisk in the comic. In the comic, yeah. I do think that the last story arc, which is called Body and Soul...
00:44:01
Speaker
is kind of sort of starting to find its groove.
00:44:06
Speaker
or Or at least find a pace that works a little better. Like, I like the stuff where Twitchquits becomes the inoculator.
00:44:18
Speaker
The stuff with the Shadows' Two Sons in China trying to get to Shambhala, but getting stuck in a town called Malice. And then... losing the shadow's body and his head coming off and all of that stuff.
00:44:32
Speaker
His head getting cut off posthumously by a by a helicopter blade. I mean, who wrote this? John Landis? Oof.
00:44:44
Speaker
Oof.
00:44:48
Speaker
Got him. You got him. Got him. Got him. ah Yeah, like, it's fun. it doesn't make any sense. it's I mean, it's a lot of just stuff happening. Like, it's like, these people want the Shadow's body.
00:45:02
Speaker
There's this lady who lives in a tube that really wants the Shadow's body because she's in love with him. She collects dead bodies of...
00:45:16
Speaker
we She is clearly set up to be a villain in a future arc that we never get, but she <unk> like she has Hitler and Jimmy Hoffa and the Lindbergh baby's baby's body. yeah And alsoally and Buddy Holly. And also she's – we see her in like a sensory deprivation chamber. Yeah.
00:45:41
Speaker
it's i don't know if i think it's like a cryogenic tank. Well, she's trying to be as close to dead as possible, so she can like find out what happens when she's dead. Yeah.
00:45:54
Speaker
But... She's only ever referred to as Madam. We don't know what her name is. She's in a rock band. Yeah. Named Drill.
00:46:05
Speaker
Yeah. Which is very funny. And she's got all these people working for her, and she's trying to get them to retrieve the Shadow's body. They cannot retrieve the Shadow's body, but they get a finger. And so they bring her back the finger.
00:46:17
Speaker
Yeah, they get the finger with the the fire opal ring on it. And and like I spent a while being like, is she from the radio show? Is she like an old Shadow character that I don't...
00:46:31
Speaker
know about, and then I eventually decided I don't care. Yeah, it's very easy to do that with a lot of this book.
Series Themes and Final Thoughts
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, but it is funny when the Shadow's head gets cut off by a helicopter blade. That is pretty funny. and then like when It's played for laughs. it's It's pretty good. Yeah, it's literally like the helicopter blade, the helicopter crashes, the blade cuts off the Shadow's head, and it cuts to his two sons.
00:46:57
Speaker
ah And they they're just going like, eww. And then they have to chase after it. Yeah. But that's like the the whole climax of like everybody running around trying to get the shadow's body is so weird because there's like groups and factions in that story that like never meet each other and never actually have like a motivation for having the shadow's body.
00:47:23
Speaker
Like at one point, there's just like a bunch of Chinese soldiers yeah carrying it around. Well, they they just think that it's valuable because other people want it.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, well one of the guys is like, oh shit, that's Yinko. That's the Shadow from Shabella. Oh, it's the people from Malice who think that. Who are like, oh, other people want this, so it must be valuable, so we should want it too.
00:47:48
Speaker
At one point, this Bellhop, who's a little person, who because ah Chang and Xientu, are those the names?
00:48:01
Speaker
I don't remember. Uh... The Shadow's sons, because they're bad tippers, because they got mugged, they got pickpocketed, he leads the drill ladies' men to steal the Shadow's body.
00:48:20
Speaker
And then there's a bunch of hijinks, and the brothers end up kidnapping the little person, Bellhop. And then at one point, he goes, Hey, um All I know about that body is it's valuable, so I'll i'll help you get it back for a cut.
00:48:37
Speaker
And they're like, cool. And then the body, they just kind of run across it and then sell him to the to the Chinese soldiers by telling them that he's a doll.
00:48:51
Speaker
That's yep how a pretty good amount of page real estate about this plot is. like resolves itself yeah the the thing i want to do with this comic is just snap in front of its face and be like focus yeah focus yeah focus because like it can't even focus on a villain it's like oh here's the villain of this story actually whoops no it's not
00:49:26
Speaker
it's It's these other guys. like The first story is called Shadows and Light.
00:49:34
Speaker
And it eventually gets to the idea of the shadow fighting a villain named The Light. But that doesn't happen until the last issue of the arc...
00:49:45
Speaker
And it disposes of that so quickly. Yeah, and also like the guy who is the actual villain is Shuang Khan. ah sure The Shadow's arch enemy.
00:49:59
Speaker
Who at first is like, yeah, Shadow, I've kind of given up on that. like Trying to conquer the world. like i'm um I run a company now and make electronics and I make a shitload of money and we're all over the place.
00:50:14
Speaker
And that's kind of a good bit for this immortal guy. and then like the next issue he's like, but I am going to brainwash the United Nations.
00:50:27
Speaker
Right. And it's like, okay? What about this other guy? What about the televangelist called The Light who glows? Right. The Light is a televangelist who can like like the shadow, he can tell people what to do when they do it.
00:50:43
Speaker
Right? um And like that's an interesting idea. i i would like to see that idea explored, but the book is so all over the place and the and like so like uncertain of where to focus. it It never really does any of that exploration.
00:51:10
Speaker
Yeah, there do not need to be this many cast members in this book.
00:51:15
Speaker
Really, no. There simply do not need to be 12 people in every issue. Am I right in thinking that the light is the other Lamont Cranston?
00:51:31
Speaker
That's a great guess. I think that's right. the Lamont Cranston's dead. And then the third Lamont Cranston's also dead. But the... Oh, that's right.
00:51:42
Speaker
Well... What ultimately ends up happening is that the shadow kills the light, then poses as the light.
00:51:54
Speaker
And dresses him up as the shadow. And dresses him up as the shadow and throws him off a building. So that people think that the shadow is dead. Why?
00:52:05
Speaker
i don't know. there's Yeah, because there's no reason for that. Because A, when the shadow does die... ah everybody's like huge like leader in the series there's a huge spike in crime and you know no one is afraid of the shadow anymore and so there's guys just going around doing murders all the time.
00:52:24
Speaker
um But also, like immediately, in that issue, someone's like, that's not the shadow!
00:52:32
Speaker
So why did he do that?
00:52:37
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. It's... No one's motivations are clear. The pacing is whack. The characters, nobody has time to develop except for Dick Magnet.
00:52:48
Speaker
The shadow sucks. The shadow kind of sucks, but not in a way that's like... There's a way to do that, I think, that would be interesting. To have a guy who is like... I mean, yeah, you know, Matt, you know the characters I like.
00:53:03
Speaker
To have a guy who's obsessed with his mission to fight crime, kind of alienating the people around him. And then have to grapple with that. Like, that you could do an interesting story about that. Sure.
00:53:14
Speaker
But they don't ever do that. No. They just make the Shadow a mean boss. Yeah. And, like, who wants to read about a mean boss?
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah. And read for a mean boss. I get that's kind of the Shadow's deal, is that he is supposed to be, like, ah creepy, mean weirdo who we root for because he's fighting people who are worse.
00:53:39
Speaker
But man, it doesn't... No one has the space to develop a character in this. Okay. I'm looking at a part of issue nine where he's he's talking to his agents about the Finn family.
00:53:57
Speaker
And he's like...
00:54:03
Speaker
And this is the this is the the room where the Finn family regularly met, ah and it was right below our offices. And one of one of the team members says, here, right below us? You knew all along? And he says, of course.
00:54:21
Speaker
And she goes, and you didn't tell us? We've been trying to track down these guys for weeks. And he goes, perhaps to point out the rather severe limitations of this group. Unlike our traditional quarry, the Finns have no FBI records.
00:54:33
Speaker
Therefore, Mavis, you and Leonard's computer access is virtually worthless. My little experiment has proved exactly how worthless. Now none of none of you could track down the Finns, despite the the fact that they were right under your noses.
00:54:46
Speaker
And like...
00:54:50
Speaker
How am I supposed to root for that guy? Yeah. Yeah. like but you But you knew where they were the whole time? And they've been doing stuff? And you didn't tell us? like we You could have told us and we could have like done something.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah, man. And also, like and also like it is... Two or three of the Finns are dead before we get a pa like a scene where someone has like a chart with here's who these guys and here's what they do.
00:55:26
Speaker
And I'm sorry, we need that up front. We need a scene where the shadow goes. All right, gang, here's your target. The fins they're criminals without an FBI record. Like they've been very good, but they're involved in all the crime in New York city.
00:55:40
Speaker
And we don't get that. Like we just get like, like, That's the issue or the story where it does actually open with a bunch of dudes doing crimes. And then the shadow shows up and goes, ha ha ha ha, the weed of crime bears better fruit and like kill some of them.
00:55:56
Speaker
And then, but we don't know why. and it's like, okay, cool. You can, you can do that. But I do need, if this is going to be a longer story than that,
00:56:09
Speaker
then i need you I need the next scene to be him like drawing an X through one of their pictures. You know? yeah like Again, if Garth Ennis couldn't pace, if Garth Ennis was a technically bad writer, it would be this book.
00:56:30
Speaker
Alright, I think we've talked about it enough. we've We've more or less covered every story arc in this book. yeah I did not enjoy it let's ra it Which sucks, because I was really hoping to.
00:56:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, again, i feel like this story this comic has a pretty good reputation.
Legacy and Reception of The Shadow
00:56:52
Speaker
it's i I'll say it.
00:56:55
Speaker
It's very reminiscent of reading Excalibur. A book from a similar time period, where you know people like it, and then you read it, and you go, this is what people like?
00:57:07
Speaker
It's wild to read this book because the inside front cover of almost every issue is like the Jeanette Conn column, the publishorial, where Jeanette Conn is fucking talking about, like yeah, we're going to be doing this thing called ah Death in the Family coming up. There's an ad for Death in the Family.
00:57:28
Speaker
This year, ah like in one of these, that's that is fucking wild that they're talking about their time like George Perez's Wonder Woman, you get like the checklist and the house ads. And so it's like... It's like house ads for shit like the Deadshot miniseries, and also like the New Guardians, and also the Will Payton Starman. They really want to just subscribe to that Will Payton Starman book.
00:57:51
Speaker
ah But yeah, it's so weird. like This should have been... In that rarefied air. I mean, a shadow comic drawn by Bill Sienkiewicz.
00:58:02
Speaker
And it certainly, like... There's parts of it that look good. It doesn't look as good as you want it to because it's... Everything is, like... Andy Helfer writes on a six-panel grid.
00:58:14
Speaker
You know? Yeah, I mean, I think it looks... As good as it possibly could. Yeah, but I mean, like you go into these Sienkiewicz issues wanting it to look like fucking Electra Assassin, you know? Well, I mean, you know it's not painted. it's like you know it It's not going to be – it's a monthly book, so it's got a it's got to be a little – he's got to draw it a little faster.
00:58:38
Speaker
But I think it looks great throughout. the The art is certainly as good as the art can be. When, like the characterization, it has no room to breathe. Because look these fucking covers, and then look at the interiors.
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it it definitely has very little room to breathe. That that is true. Also, do you like the cover of number eight featuring Jim Cornette?
00:59:04
Speaker
It really does look like him, doesn't it? Yeah. ah We didn't even talk about that guy. That's like ah guy who stabs people who thinks... the she he's part of the Shadows group of agents, but he's not.
00:59:20
Speaker
ah I did like this one letter that's in one of these. ah Dear Mike, has Bill ever been asked to do a James Bond movie poster? The cover to Shadow 6 was so Bond it was scary.
00:59:32
Speaker
By the way, if you expect me to continue to buy this comic when Kyle Baker takes over, you're fucked in the head.
00:59:40
Speaker
What the hell? and And they like spill, like they... like spill ink over where it says fucked. yeah There's also a Joe Casey letter in one of these issues.
00:59:53
Speaker
Yeah. and like if If you told me any writer was a fan of this comic, like if you were like, okay, there was a there was a writer, there was a comics writer who loved The Shadow, 1987, so much that he wrote in a letter, who would you guess?
01:00:11
Speaker
First guess would be Joe Casey. Yeah. what writer loves this cocaine paste, uh, weird kind of high concept, hyper violent comic. Yeah.
01:00:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
Let's find a spot to, to rank these, to rank this, this book that abruptly ends right as it was getting good. Yeah. I mean, like we can't, we can't judge the arc we don't have, you know?
01:00:41
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and Also, if it takes 19 issues to get good, maybe it's just not good. That's a fair point.
01:00:51
Speaker
I mean, it's not... I'd rather read Dark Dungeons...
01:01:00
Speaker
I'd have a hard time saying it was in any way as bad as Dark Dungeons. Dark Dungeons is ah very famous Jack Chick tract, for those that don't know.
01:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, which does tell a wrong but reasonably coherent story. Certainly a story you can follow, yeah. I mean, shit, Dark Dungeons above X-Men Mutant Genesis, and Mutant Genesis is better than this.
01:01:25
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:28
Speaker
Uh...
01:01:31
Speaker
like i'm I mean, I don't know. I'm down in like the 1300s. Yeah, i'm i'm I'm fine with that. like I think there is a reason to but recommend this comic, and it's the art.
01:01:44
Speaker
But there are also better books by both of these artists. I mean, is you mentioned it. Is this worse than Excalibur the Crosstime Caper?
01:01:57
Speaker
Probably. i mean... There was stuff I enjoyed in the cross-time caper. Excalibur annoyed me more, for sure. and This was a harder read.
01:02:12
Speaker
Okay, something we haven't mentioned. Okay, so Excalibur had like more than its share of like weird, pervy stuff.
01:02:22
Speaker
um We don't have to relitigate it. and had It had its share of weird, pervy stuff. This has its share of Whoa! Racism.
01:02:35
Speaker
You talking about ah about Percy Jennifer?
01:02:40
Speaker
the the the Is he the Jamaican cab driver? He's the Rostikab driver, yeah. Yeah, so there's a whole sequence of this where Percy Jennifer, the Rostikab driver, and a bunch of other Jamaican guys are chasing down various members of the Shadow's team of agents.
01:03:01
Speaker
And it's not really clear why, but they keep chasing after them. yeah And then the eventual reveal gag is that one of them owes him like... It's like $86. $86 or something like that. Yeah, which I actually did.
01:03:21
Speaker
I'll be honest, Matt. I thought that was a good joke, and I thought that was kind of a fun bit, and I liked that Percy Jennifer joined the team after. yeah ah Because, you know, like he's kind of the modern-day version of the the Shadow's cabbie buddy from the movie.
01:03:39
Speaker
Right. like it's it's fun like it's It's fun for him to have a ah New York City cabbie who's like ah Jamaican Rastafarian guy. like that's That's fun. And i I did love the bit of them thinking some kind of Jamaican gang was after them. And no, it's just like you fucked up this guy's car a little bit and he...
01:04:01
Speaker
It was $86 in repairs. But if you peel it back a little bit, it's like,
01:04:10
Speaker
oh, he's a foreign cab driver. Oh, he won't let a small amount of money go. you you know what I mean? like And, you know, the dialogue. Yeah, the dialogue. like He says i and i all the time as like just like kind of like introductions to the things he's saying. and Doesn't that just mean like me?
01:04:37
Speaker
like Isn't that... yes Yes, that's what that means. So why is he saying like why is he saying it like Velma says jinkies? oh it's It's just something that
01:04:53
Speaker
not to you know i i don't want to assign things to Andy Helfer, but... I mean, is weird, especially when you know what Kyle Baker looks like. like if you If you happen to know Kyle Baker's a black dude with dreadlocks... But he's you know it's a thing he knows that Rastafarians say.
01:05:13
Speaker
You know?
01:05:15
Speaker
But some you can't avoid you're gonna have... avoid if you're gonna have ah Khan, the arch nemesis. Like, I mean, there's a way to do it that's not what he was in the radio show, but they just do it.
01:05:36
Speaker
I mean, it's the weird late 80s yellow peril villain. i mean, it's the Mandarin problem. Yeah. um But it's in here for sure.
01:05:49
Speaker
And there's a few more examples of it um that pop up throughout. Yeah. like i I do kind of like that he's a different type of character when he shows up, but the whole, like, you know, I couldn't take over the world, so instead I took it over with VCRs is very, like, you know, that's ah that's that's weird 80s anti-Japanese.
01:06:15
Speaker
like Yeah. Anti-foreign manufacturing of electronics. Yeah. let me There's a joke about that in Die Hard, which is also 88. So, yeah, i don't know, man. It's bad.
01:06:28
Speaker
Worse than, but worse than Excalibur. Yeah, I think so. Worse than, worse than Streets of Poison. I would say yes. Similar though.
01:06:40
Speaker
We're, we're, we're in the neighborhood now. We're we're like, yeah. NFL super pros, not good. But again, I would read it again before I read this again.
01:06:51
Speaker
Fair enough. Punisher is, where he Where he gets his face all fucked up and they inject him with a bunch of melon and turn him into a black eye for a few issues.
01:07:03
Speaker
This is probably better than that. i mean, I don't know. Again, that's only three issues and I would much rather read it.
01:07:11
Speaker
These are hard to read, man. They're tough to get through. i agree. i don't know how you got through them so quickly.
01:07:21
Speaker
I just powered through. i ah It was hard in the first half, and it got easier in the second. That's all I can say. ah i i don't know, man.
01:07:38
Speaker
It's got to be worse than the Sentry.
01:07:43
Speaker
Similarly tough read, but yeah.
01:07:49
Speaker
i I keep scrolling down and I keep saying things were like 100%. I would rather read that again. Okay. It's got to be worse than, or I'm sorry, it's got to be better than the three Street Fighter issues that Malibu had to apologize It's got to be better than that.
01:08:04
Speaker
Those are pretty atrocious. That's at 1411. Only three issues, though. You can knock that out in one sitting.
01:08:15
Speaker
It's probably really on par with the slug from Mark Groomwald and Paul Neary on Captain America. i would I would agree. it's like if that story was 19 issues.
01:08:34
Speaker
Better worse than the new 52 Secret Six?
01:08:40
Speaker
Worse. Worse.
01:08:44
Speaker
I think it goes right above Street Fighter. Okay, so this is the new number 1411. Yeah, i'm so I'm sorry. It was not an enjoyable read. like Some great art, but if you've looked at the covers, you've seen the best art.
01:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. All right. The Shadow numbers 1 through 19 have entered the list at number 1411. ah We will be back in May with another catch-up candidate.
01:09:15
Speaker
ah Hopefully, it'll be something that we like. Maybe we'll read that um
01:09:23
Speaker
that slot all-read Silver Surfer book. That sounds good. People really like it, and I remember reading some of it and liking what I read.
01:09:34
Speaker
so And it's got that part where the Silver Surfer surfs the moon into Galactus. That's pretty cool. ah Yeah, maybe we'll do that. How many issues is that?
01:09:45
Speaker
That's 14 issues. um So... Or were there two different books? I don't know. I'll research it further. We may break that up into two parts. We'll see.
01:09:57
Speaker
But nonetheless, ah thanks for listening, everybody. ah We will, as I said, return... It was two different books. There was 15-issue...
01:10:11
Speaker
2014 series, and then there was another 14 issues in 2016. So that's 30 total. So we'll have to break that up into a couple parts. Bye, everybody. Thanks for listening. If you want to support this show and support us and all the stuff that we make, go to patreon.com slash warrocketajax and kick in as little as a dollar a month to make sure that we keep doing this show every month that we do the weekly warrocketajax show that we do Every Story Ever specials, Movie Fighters and Snag Situation, all of those are made possible by your support over there on Patreon.
01:10:47
Speaker
And we've reached 420 patrons, yeah so we're going to do some edible boco very soon. Ediboco. Ediboco.
01:10:57
Speaker
ah If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? You can find myself by going to the-isb.com. That is ah my website, and it has links to all kinds of stuff that I do around the web.
01:11:18
Speaker
If you want to contact us, warrocket podcast at gmail dot com war rockcket ajax dot com on blue sky warrocketpodcast on Tumblr, or join our Discord, ah which you have to be invited to be a member of, but if you ask us nicely for an invitation, we will get you one.
01:11:37
Speaker
All right. Until next time, everybody. Good catching up.