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Comics Catch-Up 069: Silver Surfer (2014)
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Based on your suggestion, we finally read the entire 2014 volume of Silver Surfer, which has a kind of Doctor Who vibe to it. Spoiler: It's great.
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Introduction and Zencaster Promotion
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Comics Catch-Up Segment
00:00:28
Speaker
Oh, my bread is carnage. I think it's a puzzle. Whoa. This is Comics Catch-Up. Hey, twerp. You better not be mine.
00:00:39
Speaker
Come on.
00:00:52
Speaker
where we read comics suggested by you, the listeners of War Rocket Ajax, that we have missed. Oh, hey, I haven't seen you in a bit.
00:01:04
Speaker
It's like you were light years away. Let's catch up.
2014 Silver Surfer Discussion Begins
00:01:08
Speaker
This is Comics Catch Up, the show where Matt Wilson, that's me, Chris Sims, who's also here.
00:01:16
Speaker
What up? We read the comics that we did. Probably maybe started when they first started coming out, but did not finish. That's certainly the case with the comic for this month's edition.
00:01:31
Speaker
It is the 2014 Silver Surfer volume, written by Dan Slott with art by Mike Allred. Mike and Laura Allred.
00:01:44
Speaker
And it's also the first of two volumes of this take on Silver Surfer. So, I don't think we're going to be doing a ranking on this catch-up, because we're going to do the 2016 Silver Surfer volume next time.
00:02:01
Speaker
And I think we're probably going to be pretty good to rank all of this together. Yeah, probably so. The reason there are two is that Secret Wars 2015 happened. Right.
00:02:11
Speaker
And this volume actually ends with a Secret Wars tie-in. Hell yes, it does. pretty great, actually, but we'll get to it in a bit. This is a very interesting take on Silver Surfer.
00:02:23
Speaker
It is kind of Silver Surfer as Doctor Who. It's exactly Silver Surfer as Doctor Who. like Did you catch the the like dedication to Russell T. Davies and one of these issues?
00:02:36
Speaker
Oh, really? I did not catch that. it's in I don't think it's in number one, but the credits page for number two or three is literally like, has a dedication to to Russell T. Davies, which is kind of wild.
Characters and Plot Introduction
00:02:56
Speaker
but Yeah. yeah it's It's Silver Surfer with a Doctor Who companion, who is named Dawn Greenwood, who is a really fascinating character. she Her family has a bed and breakfast in Massachusetts, and she loves it there.
00:03:17
Speaker
And so she never leaves. Like, she stays there and works there with her dad all the time. Yeah. ah She has a twin sister named Eve.
00:03:28
Speaker
And I gotta say, love that the twins are named Dawn and Eve. Dawn and Eve, and they always wear the same clothes. They always wear the same clothes. One of them is bee-themed, and one of them is ladybug-themed.
00:03:41
Speaker
Right, so so Eve is always wearing stripes, yellow and black stripes. Yeah, and Dawn is always wearing polka dots, which I love. Red with black polka dots, yeah. Yeah, but like she explains it in one issue, and but it's very much like, we are cartoon characters and these are our cartoon character outfits.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yes, there's a there's a panel in issue one, or a page in issue one, where eve so Eve's deal is that she's like Dawn's total opposite, even though they look exactly the same.
00:04:11
Speaker
So Dawn stays at the Greenwood Inn all the time, never leaves. Eve travels constantly. And so she's always sending Dawn her photos from her various trips.
00:04:28
Speaker
And ah There's one ah page in issue one where it's all her different photos from all her different trips. And she's wearing all these different outfits that are her yellow and black stripes.
00:04:43
Speaker
And it's great. it's It's fantastic. And Dawn does a little bit of that too, where her outfits change, but they're always the black and red, or the red with black polka dots.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, there's ah there's a bit where she's attacked by like space ladybugs, and Silver Surfer just takes the dots off, and she's like, hey, what the fuck? And we get like a little montage of her like insisting that every time she has a new outfit, the Surfer puts the dots on it.
00:05:15
Speaker
it's really It's really cute. I liked it a lot. So, um let's just go through this arc by arc. I think the first arc of this book is...
00:05:26
Speaker
So good. Like, such a great start to this kind of series. This kind of space adventure take on Silver Surfer.
00:05:37
Speaker
Where um he is called by ah the, i guess, caretakers of this huge city in space, the Impericon.
00:05:52
Speaker
and He's told that the city is in danger, and and thus he he's going to have to like become a mercenary for them, essentially, yeah or become their hero.
Dan Slott's Career and Critique
00:06:08
Speaker
yeah And what they want to do is take down ah the the evil queen, what they think of as the evil you know space queen who's this – one of these cosmic Marvel entities.
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, she's the she's Queen of Nevers, which sounds like an evil name, and I love it. Yes. Hey, Matt. Yep. Can I say something that's going to maybe sound mean, and I don't mean it mean?
00:06:36
Speaker
To me? no not to you. Okay. No, Matt, you know I have nothing but love for you. my My best friend, my my business partner and life partner.
00:06:49
Speaker
like My partner in business and life. That's right. I always... But this this is mean. I always think of Dan Slott as a B-plus player.
00:07:03
Speaker
As a good hand. As a good hand. like he's not He's not like a Chuck Dixon. you know He's not a C-lister. But I always think of him as being like, yeah, Dan Slott, good hand.
00:07:17
Speaker
he'll He'll write you an entertaining book. And... I think maybe I feel that way because of one specific thing. Spider-Man? No, well, I'll get to it.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yes, okay but no. is I don't know if he still does it, but in in the the the heydays of Twitter... Dan Slott had a real bad habit of like getting up in people's like of term searching and like getting up in people's mentions.
00:07:46
Speaker
Searching for his own name yeah and then replying to people who were talking about him, which you absolutely should not do. Don't do that. Don't do either part of that. yeah It's not good.
00:07:57
Speaker
Slott would do that. And I remember one time in particular, someone talked about like mentioned like him not being an a-listster or something And term-searched them.
00:08:11
Speaker
That's a mean thing to say. Yeah, and he term-searched them and he replied to them with, well, I have have been in like the top-selling books every month for the past ten years. And I remember thinking when I saw that, I was like, yeah, but to be entirely fair, you're on Amazing Spider-Man.
00:08:30
Speaker
Like, there's only so low sales on Amazing Spider-Man are gonna go. Right. You know? like and It's one of the perennials, like Batman.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, like, there's only, like, you know, Ed Brubaker tells the story about how he followed Larry Hama on on Batman, and, like, Hama's run was, and is, kind of widely regarded as one of the worst runs of all time on the character.
00:08:59
Speaker
it's not It's not Larry's best work. or It gave us Orca. And like his role you know he came on and immediately, like super high praise, like everybody was really into it.
00:09:12
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, sales didn't change. At all.
00:09:18
Speaker
and And so it's like, yeah, I thought of that. And then, like, you take a moment, or I take a moment, and I remember that I'm like, well, shit, actually.
00:09:33
Speaker
like, Dan Slott's someone who I kind of love everything he's ever done. As far as, like, actual writing, like, actual comics, they're all pretty fucking good. Like, She-Hulk.
00:09:47
Speaker
She-Hulk. Yeah. Spider-Man and Human Torch. I love most, if not all, of his run on Spider-Man that was fucking ten years long. And he was part of the brain trust, too, that made Spider-Man really good. Yeah.
00:10:03
Speaker
In, what, 2008? Whenever that was? Yeah. But, like like, also... I like that Spider-Man comic that came out. I liked... He wrote a run on Batman Adventures that is actually, like, fucking extremely good.
00:10:15
Speaker
and And is, like, nobody it because it was Batman Adventures. So, like, I read it. There was like thing there was a Thing miniseries that he wrote. that It was an ongoing. It was an ongoing. It was an ongoing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that shit was really good, too.
00:10:30
Speaker
and It in it. And I feel like Dan Slott, for someone that I always kind of think of as being like a good hand, no!
00:10:43
Speaker
No, he's kind of a superstar. well Yeah, maybe maybe an underrated great. He did not do very much for his reputation on Twitter. I'll say that.
00:10:54
Speaker
No. No, like absolutely not. like I feel like that is the the cardinal sin of comics writers, his name searching. Yeah, I feel like he turned a lot of people against him with his Twitter behavior, which is really too bad. Yeah, which I don't recall him like saying anything like egregiously terrible.
00:11:18
Speaker
But it was more like, well, yeah, dude, you are writing Amazing Spider-Man, and you are in the top ten writers, so like what the fuck are you doing? like Yeah, it's a lot of like just like, chill out, man. like yeah don't Don't do that. yeah you're You're harming your reputation by like finding people on Twitter to argue with.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, but it's not like, but I feel like it was just for some reason he felt the need to defend himself. It wasn't like, you know,
00:11:47
Speaker
He wasn't like Ethan VanSkyver, you know? Well, he wasn't like Nick Spencer. wasn't like Nick Spencer, who, unfortunately, like... I mean, I i have a lot of sympathy for nick Spencer, because like people were calling him a Nazi for no reason.
00:12:02
Speaker
I mean, people were calling him a Nazi for a comic story, which which is ludicrous. Which was about Nazis being bad guys. Yeah, which is
Doctor Who Comparisons and Human Connection
00:12:10
Speaker
ludicrous. But also, like, he, unfortunately, kind of tanked...
00:12:16
Speaker
tanked his prospects by arguing of people on Twitter. ah like He happened to write a badly timed story. yeah Look, like a lot of us, Nick Spencer thought we were going to be living in a very different world, and the rise of American fascism was not his fault.
00:12:33
Speaker
Absolutely not, yeah. But like it was a badly timed story that was also maybe not told as well as it could have been. But like oh we're getting off the point. Yeah. What I'm saying is,
00:12:46
Speaker
For some reason, I have it in my head that Dan Slott – my mental image of Dan Slott is not as good as Dan Slott actually is. yeah Which is actually extremely fucking good.
00:12:58
Speaker
I was fascinated. i Part of why we got recommended this book to to catch up on was that we read ah Secret Defenders, the arguing Secret Defenders.
00:13:12
Speaker
And that book – shockingly, has a lot of concepts and characters from this book, including The Queen of Nevers.
00:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. I think that was that was just Defenders, not Secret Defenders. Was it just Defenders? Okay. Chad Bowers and I wanted to bring back Secret Defenders, and that didn't happen.
00:13:35
Speaker
Why did I think it was Secret Defenders? Okay, just Defenders. Because it doesn't feel like a Defenders book? Yeah, I guess so. um But yeah, like The Queen of Nevers is in... Al Ewing's defenders. And we were like, I think even when we read that, we were like, what a great idea.
00:13:49
Speaker
And then come to find out the Queen of Nevers is from this. And but what ends up happening with her is come to find out that Zed the Incredulous, who is the, or the Incredulous said who is the guy from the Empiricon, like the the overseer of the Empiricon,
00:14:12
Speaker
stole her heart to operate the Impericon. Literally. Like, literally stole her heart from her chest. And has has taken away all her power so that things that could never be... Like, in the Impericon, all of these possibilities can exist.
00:14:34
Speaker
Because the Queen of Nevers' whole deal is that she holds the things that never happened. right like the The possibilities that that didn't come to be. and She's Eternity's girlfriend?
00:14:46
Speaker
Or wife? Because Eternity is all that is, and the Queen of Nevers is all that could be? Right. And so she's she's Eternity's partner, let's say. And so she's the victim here.
00:15:00
Speaker
And Silver Surfer realizes this, and he's like, oh, all right, then we're just going to get your heart back. And fuck the Empiricon. Yeah. I'll go destroy that place.
00:15:13
Speaker
And it's a very Doctor Who style story where there's kind of like a twist on who the bad guy is. Like who you think is the bad guy to start with is actually the good guy and the sort of weirdly ethically gray people are the bad guys.
00:15:33
Speaker
And um ah it It probably should have been obvious when all the other heroes who didn't succeed in killing the Queen of Nevers are like now in prison.
00:15:47
Speaker
No, that's that's all of their hostages. That's all of their hostages. They all died. That's right. yeah They all died. and They have a ah um ah motivation...
00:15:58
Speaker
ah like it it's It's like the motivation scanner, which ah goes and kidnaps someone important to you, so you'll do so you'll go fight you'll go fight and probably die against this cosmic being, um which is a pretty good idea.
00:16:12
Speaker
And the most Doctor Who thing that happens is that it just picks a random person from Earth, and Silver Surfer goes, I would fight for anyone who was in danger.
00:16:26
Speaker
Which is very Silver Surfer and also very Doctor Who. There's a whole thing where Silver Surfer is like... Because he's told, oh, we kidnapped somebody very close to you, and we have to threaten them so that you'll do this for us. Which, again, that's a sure sign that you're working for bad people.
00:16:42
Speaker
But like... It just... Yeah, just picks Dawn out of the ether, but like... He's like... Damn it, is it Elysium Masters? Is it Shalabal? Yeah. It's pretty funny.
00:16:54
Speaker
But it... it So i think it picks Dawn... based on their future connection, which will grow throughout this series.
00:17:05
Speaker
See, that's that's the thing. I don't know if it does that, or if if it does, in fact, just pick someone at random, and and that's why they have this connection. which you know it's like it's ah It's a very fun like little time-bendy type of story.
00:17:22
Speaker
yeah um Now, we have compared it a lot to Doctor Who already, ah Because it is, again, very intentionally Doctor Who-y. But it's interesting to call it a Doctor Who-style story, because it's not boring and the main character does stuff.
00:17:41
Speaker
And it doesn't just kind of like talk about how people know that he did stuff at some point in the past. Well, i you're talking about the worst Doctor Who episodes, but yeah.
00:17:54
Speaker
Well, it's it's also it also doesn't look bad. that Yes, Doctor Who does often look bad. it doesn't like it Mike Allred draws it, so it doesn't look like um super cheap and British.
00:18:07
Speaker
I realize I'm making enemies right now, and I'm sorry. I'm right. I tried. I tried, folks. there are some There are very good episodes of Doctor Who. and i the russell t davies The first Russell T. Davies era of Doctor Who, I actually really like.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah.
Earth Asleep and Nightmare Plot
00:18:27
Speaker
The Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant period. Yeah, david the David Tennant stuff i do was was the certainly the most watchable with a oh Martha.
00:18:40
Speaker
With Martha, and also with... ah Billie? Or is that the actress's name? Billie Piper is the actress. Rose. rose tyler Rose. But that stuff, like, the Rose Tyler stuff, like, the ending of that is the dumbest shit in the world. I'm sorry. yeah You're always going to run into, like, a ah really dumb thing.
00:19:01
Speaker
in Doctor Who, which is just part of the formula. When she gets when she gets eight a second, when they make a second Doctor, but like he's actually human so she can have her Consolation Prize love interest, that's so fucking dumb, dude. like i like There's literally nothing in Dragon Ball that fucking dumb.
00:19:25
Speaker
So ah the second arc is also very interesting. You keep cutting me off before people hate me even more. The second arc is also very interesting. It um is a nightmare story where so Surfer and Dawn return to Earth. They go to the inn.
00:19:44
Speaker
Dawn's family's inn. But as it turns out, everybody on Earth is asleep.
00:19:50
Speaker
And... It's up to Doctor Strange, who's actually in his astral form, and Hulk, who is okay because Bruce Banner is asleep inside, but Hulk is awake.
00:20:06
Speaker
So they're kind of awake, but not really. um But they have to find somebody who's awake to... end this nightmarish dream state that everyone on Earth is in And so even Silver Surfer falls asleep and re-experiences his nightmare being trapped on Earth.
00:20:27
Speaker
And weirdly enough, Nightmare is asleep too. So it's not even really Nightmare doing something malicious. It's just a really bad situation that happens every once in a while where everybody falls asleep and goes into a nightmare state.
00:20:45
Speaker
yeah there was ah There was a prophecy of some kind that Doctor Strange knows about. Yeah. And so Dawn, who is the only person who's still awake...
00:20:57
Speaker
on Earth, has to find Nightmare and wake him up and end it. Which, again, that's ah that that feels like a Doctor Who plot. Where the bad guy is not necessarily malicious, and there's a puzzle that has to be solved.
00:21:14
Speaker
It certainly does feel like a ah plot that only requires you to get extras and have them pretend to be asleep.
00:21:23
Speaker
And also, it's mostly in one location. It's mostly in one location, and you get somebody and dress him up as Nightmare, and he just lays on a sofa for a while. And conveniently, everyone's Nightmare also takes place in that same location.
00:21:40
Speaker
that's the that's These issues should be dedicated to Russell T. Davies.
Planet Prime and Its Consequences
00:21:44
Speaker
by yes what did Did the doctor being trapped on Earth or the the silver surfer being trapped on Earth happen first?
00:21:55
Speaker
That's a good question. i would i would I think silver surfer being trapped on Earth happened first. because i would be like what but i mean it's after so it's like late sixty s probably.
00:22:05
Speaker
yeah it damn it could have happened around the same time I don't remember which doctor is the one that gets trapped on Earth. in Great question. Great question for someone who's not me.
00:22:20
Speaker
Great question for... You know what? why don't Why didn't everybody who's writing an angry email or a Blue Sky post right now ah instead direct the answer to that question to Matt Wilson?
00:22:31
Speaker
It was the third doctor.
00:22:34
Speaker
Ah, yes. Nigel Farrington. Is that a real guy? i just picked a name at random. No, John Pertwee was that doctor. okay he's He's the one who had the son who was the who was Alfred.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean Pertwee. Yeah. ah Let's see, the third doctor was... He had a car? He had a car, yeah. He started in 1970.
00:22:59
Speaker
So I'm going to say Silver Surfer probably happened first. Probably so. Anyway. Anyway, it's good it's a good story. it's good I'm going to try and stop talking shit now. It's not going to happen, but I'm going to try. The next arc is my favorite arc of the whole series.
00:23:19
Speaker
Because of just the concepts in it. Because Silver Surfer learns about all of Dawn's human needs of having to go to the bathroom and eat food.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. and feel like this is the first time in a Marvel comic that someone has talked about shitting.
00:23:44
Speaker
Right, because she's like, ah first she's like, I gotta pee. And then Silver Surfer's like, okay, I'll take you somewhere with the with a bathroom. And then later she's like, oh, I gotta do more of pee.
00:23:57
Speaker
Also, there's something going on with her tonsils, and so... And she's like, I gotta go back to Earth and get my tonsils removed. And Silver Surfer's just like, no, no, no, here you go.
00:24:09
Speaker
And he just removes them. Painlessly. But Dawn is like, when you get your tonsils taken out, you get ice cream. I demand ice cream. So they go to this planet called Planet Prime.
00:24:22
Speaker
Because Silver Surfer's like, I'll use my cosmic senses to find you the greatest ice cream in the galaxy. I really like that bit, yeah. yeah And so... They find it on Planet Prime.
00:24:34
Speaker
And... Oh, before this, we've been seeing that Surfer's been paying for everything with, like... Gold. Rigelian gold. Which is wild that he doesn't... It's not just gold, which is an element.
00:24:50
Speaker
It is specifically Rigelian gold. Yeah, this is gold from Rigel. um So, they go to this to Planet Prime... And he pays for the ice cream with Rhygelian Gold.
00:25:03
Speaker
And what we learned about Planet Prime is that everyone on this planet does one thing, and they practice it so much, and they train so hard that they become the best person at doing that one thing.
00:25:20
Speaker
Which is why they have the best ice cream. Which is why they have the best ice cream. They also have the best, like, economist. And so when Silver Surfer pays with this gold, they're like, that's ruining our economy. I think she's Banker One.
00:25:38
Speaker
She's Banker One, yeah. And she's like, by paying with this gold, you've devalued our other money and thus are destroying our economy. So we've got to send the best cop after you.
00:25:51
Speaker
And that's Warrior One, the ultimate soldier. Which is weird because he didn't quit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the best thing a cop could do. Yeah. If he was the best cop, well, you know what? He becomes the best cop later in the story.
00:26:08
Speaker
That's right, because he he he is taken out of his job. He is removed from his job. Yeah. Apparently they don't have ah qualified immunity on that planet. So it is... Making a lot of enemies today, Matt.
00:26:21
Speaker
But you know what? We're right, and we should say it Dawn actually comes up with a solution, which is a very Doctor Who thing, where the companion actually is the one who often solves the problem.
00:26:33
Speaker
um She realizes that if you remove someone's badge, they don't have their job anymore. Yeah, because she sees ah the... the the but He's actually ah not a cop, because they do mention ah guy's like, oh man, did you really call Constable One over this?
00:26:50
Speaker
That's true, yeah. And she's like, no, this is a matter of planetary importance. I called Warrior One, who's their super soldier. Right, yeah. They find out, like, ah Dawn...
00:27:02
Speaker
finds out that ah people on this planet, there are other people, but they're like, the twos and threes are like the backups. like if Right. you know it's like They're like the second and third chairs in an orchestra.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah. The understudies. And so Warrior one shows up, or Warrior I's fighting Silver Surfer, and then Warrior II shows up, and Dawn's like, hey, can't you do something to stop this? And she goes, nah, I can't do anything. I'm Warrior Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
so Pretty good. Yeah. But she finds out about the whole badge element. Like nobody's ever taken their badge off before. So she's just like, hey, Surfer, just take off Warrior One's badge.
00:27:44
Speaker
And he does that. And immediately Warrior Two becomes Warrior One. And that ends the whole conflict. Yeah, except that Warrior she's like, okay, so do you just go back to being in Warrior one now? And he's like, no, this is permanent.
00:28:01
Speaker
i I no longer have a station in our society. i am now Warrior Zero. Which is pretty, it's good. It's a good bit. I like that story a whole lot. i the the The idea of Planet Prime, where everybody has a job that they've been training for their whole life, and that thus they're the best at it.
00:28:22
Speaker
That is a concept I deeply like. Like, it's such a good idea.
00:28:31
Speaker
And so, like, why didn't I think of that? You know? Yeah, it's very good. The next arc is interesting. It's Dawn and Surfer go to what they think to be the edge of the universe. What
Galactus and Silver Surfer's Redemption
00:28:47
Speaker
seems to them to be the edge of the universe.
00:28:50
Speaker
And so they just keep going. Like they just keep flying. Uh, and at first it seems like there's all this stuff there.
00:29:02
Speaker
like ah a kid stuck in a labyrinth and in the moon maze of Taro. And, uh, or is this flashbacks? These are flashbacks. These are flashbacks.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, to stuff they've been doing before this, but like essentially this thing at the edge of the universe, it's like a lighthouse in the middle of nowhere. And it's all a big illusion that, um, kidnaps Dawn and surfer saves her. And then he gives her a ring to like where he can always find her.
00:29:38
Speaker
That allows him to always find her. Because he thought she was lost. And that issue ends with Dawn going, does this mean we're going out? Which is pretty cute. yeah well Love a story about a cosmic anglerfish.
00:29:51
Speaker
the the The biggest difference, I think, between this and Doctor Who is that um it so set me up like that matt it's not entirely so well i'm going to say the thing that people are going to give bad a out it's not entirely sexless.
00:30:04
Speaker
i mean it doesn't exactly have sex but at least like silver surfer is a character with desire there's definitely a a full romantic aspect to it yeah yeah yeah I mean, look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Doctor Who being aromantic, which he kind of is.
00:30:31
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with that. But this is different from that. It is, is in in my experience of watching the show. The next story is kind of the big one, I think, of the series.
00:30:43
Speaker
it's It's the thing that drives the whole rest of the series. Dawn and Silver Surfer go to a planet called Planet New Haven, which is where all the survivors of all the planets that Galactus has devoured live.
00:31:05
Speaker
It's their refuge. It's where they've ah gone to all live together because Galactus has eaten all of their planets. And...
00:31:19
Speaker
Surfer and Dawn, how do they end up there? Surfer lets Dawn drive. That's right. um Also, we haven't talked about like how the board is alive in this.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah, and ah and in a in a very funny – Funny and also super fucking corny, but in a way that's like that I like, because you know what?
00:31:45
Speaker
This shit should be a little corny sometimes. Surfer says, to me, my board. Yeah. And Don assumes that ah the board's name is to me, or to me.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah. And she's like, yeah, that's his name. To me, my board.
00:32:02
Speaker
It's pretty funny. it's It's super corny in the way that like, but again, Slott has this thing that I love about his writing and it is, it's, I feel like it's one of the reasons that I think of him as someone who does get comics is that like, he will do like, yeah, what if the Green Goblin was red?
00:32:28
Speaker
be the Red Goblin. Yeah. like And it's not like, it's like, yeah, it's it' the first first thought, best thought. And I like that. And there to me, my board is very, very corny and cheesy, but like the fucking Silver Surfer is a Silver Surfer.
00:32:46
Speaker
Right. it's It's kind of in the spirit, I think, of old like Lee and Kirby comics. Yeah. Weirdly. Like, it's not a complicated idea, but it's not a bad idea, you know?
00:32:59
Speaker
Anyway, this story, um Surfer and Dawn – that's right. Surfer lets Dawn drive. They end up on this planet, New Haven. And it is through them arriving there, some some of the people there remember Silver Surfer from when he was Galactus' herald.
00:33:17
Speaker
And they're like, oh, you motherfucker. You're Galactus' herald. You're here to bring Galactus back here to finish us off. And Dawn's like, what are they talking about?
00:33:28
Speaker
because when he first shows up, he's he's ah he's ah powered down. like he's he's He's just Noren Rad. He he turns the silverness off.
00:33:40
Speaker
they they Dawn sometimes likes for him to de-silver and just look like Noren Rad, which I did not know he could do. I didn't know he could do that either. But I mean, like it's you know he's got the power cosmic. It does a lot of weird stuff.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's weird to me how much Norrin Rad just looks like Professor X. If he was not wearing that outfit, he would just be Professor X. It's because they both have a real on-point eyeliner.
00:34:10
Speaker
and And are, but you know, bald. And are bald guys, yeah. But, like, they look almost exactly the same. Yes, correct.
00:34:23
Speaker
Anyway, uh... Dawn hears about what Surfer used to do, which he has not told her about. Like, he has never mentioned Galactus before this to her.
00:34:34
Speaker
Which is also weird, because she's never heard of Galactus before. Seems like she should have, yeah. Seems like they they would teach that one in school. No, she does say early on, like there is a there is a reason for her to be this kind of viewpoint character.
00:34:51
Speaker
which is because he's like, yeah, I'm the silver surfer. Like I know the fantastic four. And she's like, oh yeah, I'm not really into superheroes. And he's like, what? And she's like, yeah, you know, there's people who aren't into sports. There's people aren't into politics.
00:35:05
Speaker
I'm not really into superheroes. And it's like, okay, that's, that's fun. That's a, that's a, that's fun. Also Galactus did eat, you know, try to eat the world.
00:35:17
Speaker
So yeah I do feel like they like, you know If you're not into politics, you know who George Washington was. i do think that there's probably – the idea of having Dawn be extremely sheltered and to have never left her childhood home is part of like the explanation of that.
00:35:40
Speaker
But she must have gone to school. Yeah. She went to school. like she's She's not from the woods. Right. it I mean, I guess she could have been homeschooled, but like it it it does strain credulity a little bit for her to not have heard Galactus.
00:35:54
Speaker
which it But that is kind of a necessity for her to have not heard of the Silver Surfer. But it is it's very weird to be like, yeah, do you remember, like, you're in your 20s, right? So like do you remember 13 years ago when the skies turned to fire?
00:36:13
Speaker
Right. like you Because that happened. And that was me who did that. that That didn't just happen in New York. No, that happened everywhere.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah. yeah ah So anyway, as the surfer fears, and the other people of New Haven fear, he does lead Galactus here.
00:36:37
Speaker
yeah Unintentionally. Like, without... into intending to Galactus comes to this planet and finds him.
00:36:48
Speaker
Well, the interesting thing about this is that we see that Galactus is like following the trail of cosmic energy, but when we look at the trail that he's following, it's all like weird and loopy and and wild. And so it's not – it's actually – this is never stated in the book.
00:37:03
Speaker
It's actually because of of Dawn. Right. Because of the way she was flying the board. Right. And that's never stated, and I think that's kind of a cool thing that it's like, oh, this is why this happened, but ultimately it is, you know, it it doesn't matter who was flying the board. it but It's because Surfer and the board the ones leaving the trail.
00:37:24
Speaker
yeah Galactus explains to Don... What he's done in the past, how Galactus came to Earth one time, and I guess she didn't know. You really don't remember when a giant purple man came to New York City.
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah. Don, I gotta say... So to stop Galactus, who has found this refugee planet, Surfer does that thing we've talked about, that it does rule.
00:37:53
Speaker
It does rule. it It actually does rule even harder in context. So i'm glad we I'm glad we got to that. He surfs a moon into Galactus, and it whips ass. Now, it does not kill or even hurt Galactus.
00:38:10
Speaker
It kind of just pisses Galactus off. And Galactus goes, oh, you're you're not my herald anymore, and you're not loyal to me, so I'm going to take your power cosmic away, which he does.
00:38:22
Speaker
And then he lands on the planet, and he's about to devour it, and then we get the next issue. Yeah, and this is, I think... Kind of the single weakest plot point of the story.
00:38:34
Speaker
i agree. Which is, Dawn is looking through a you know space telescope, space binoculars, and she's like, oh no, Galak just took his powers away, now he can't breathe in space, he's gonna die!
00:38:49
Speaker
And then ah the other guy's like, or or did he? Or is the Silver Surfer just like pretending, like like playing Space Possum on him?
00:39:00
Speaker
And it's like, okay, but how did Galactus fuck that one up? Yeah, that's what I don't get. like but They say he's just the Surfer's just playing dead, but like how did the Surfer prevent Galactus from taking his power cosmic away?
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah. Great question. Not explained. Not explained.
00:39:22
Speaker
ah But yeah, he was he was just playing possum the whole time. He comes back down and starts fighting Galactus. He starts talking to Galactus about how like i ah I had to become your Herald because you were going to destroy my world. The only way to so to save it was to become your Herald.
00:39:42
Speaker
So everybody on New Haven starts saying, hey, I'll be your Herald. yeah but Spare my world and i will and I'll be your Herald. i at you Look, you know I love that shit.
00:39:55
Speaker
You know I love that shit. When everybody comes together and they all say the same thing. And, and you know, but is this is New York. You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us. You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us.
00:40:07
Speaker
Which, as I've said before, if you don't like that scene in the Spider-Man 2002, guess what? You don't like superhero stories. Yep. ah Finally, Galactus chooses Dawn to be his new Herald. Yeah, because she's the only one from a world he hasn't destroyed. it She's the only one from Earth.
00:40:27
Speaker
but Even though I'm pretty sure Galactus has had Heralds from Earth.
00:40:33
Speaker
Hmm. Temporarily. Temporarily, for sure. Squirrel Girl. Temporarily. Maybe that hadn't happened yet. but Yeah, look, I know Golden Oldie was a what-if.
00:40:47
Speaker
we We know that. His other his like longer time heralds are definitely from other planets, right? I do like when Silver Surfer shows up and they're like, oh shit, it's one of Galactus' heralds.
00:41:01
Speaker
and they're like, oh damn, who is it? Fire Lord? Terax? Morg? And I'm like, damn, Airwalker ain't getting no love. Airwalker getting left out. Oh, the Destroyer was Galactus' is herald for like one issue.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, man.
00:41:20
Speaker
I guess i guess he it's that he hasn't had a... They've only been short-term employments. ah Nova... Freelance Heralds. Frankie Ray
Paradise Planet and Universe Creation
00:41:32
Speaker
was from god was a Herald.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, Frankie Ray. Yeah.
00:41:38
Speaker
Johnny Storm was his Herald for a minute, too. Yeah. And he was Franklin Richards' Herald. Yeah, so... Some other heralds from Earth, for sure. Anyway, ah he starts like transforming Dawn into his herald, and Surfer starts like begging Galactus to stop, and he's begging for Dawn to renounce her pledge.
00:42:02
Speaker
And that ends with Surfer telling Dawn that he loves her. ah Which is pretty pretty big pretty Pretty big drama.
00:42:14
Speaker
And then a bunch of – that gives all the people of New Haven time to to like get into their spaceships and start firing at Galactus or threatening to fire at Galactus.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah. And basically, ah they they end up going like, fine, eat the fucking planet. We're leaving. yeah And Surfer's like, okay, I will be your herald and find you a new place to live.
00:42:40
Speaker
Right, so that's what ends up happening. Galactus devours the planet, but everybody leaves. Which leads to the next issue, which is one of those like wild playing with the form kind of comics.
00:42:59
Speaker
This is number 12, I think. Or 11. This... This issue made me very curious, because it does say on the cover that it's like an extra-sized issue. And I did enjoy it, and I did think it was a good comic.
00:43:14
Speaker
However, I feel like if I had paid an extra price for it, I would be maybe a little miffed. Because every page is like half a page. Every page is half a page, and half the pages are repeated.
00:43:29
Speaker
True, even though that is the gimmick of the book. but Yeah, but it's ah it's a it's a movie, a strip. it's It's a Jean Girard strip. It's a Jean Girard strip, where Surfer is trying to find all the survivors of New Haven and New Planet, and the same things keep happening.
00:43:50
Speaker
So, they always get attacked by the same, like... Space soldiers every time. Who speak space French.
00:44:01
Speaker
Yes. they Because it does, in fact, turn out that they're in the Giraud system. They go to a planet that they think is going to be a planet that they can live on, but then people start getting sick. like Children, in particular, start getting sick.
00:44:19
Speaker
And they realize that they have to leave. And so Surfer's like, okay, that's fine. I'll find you another planet. And the same, that same cycle just happens over and over and over again, where they go try to find another planet. They go to the planet, the planet makes kids sick. And so they leave and it's just that same cycle. And the ships are running out of fuel and surfers getting tired.
00:44:47
Speaker
And, um, they don't, they don't quite know how they're going to get out of this. Um, This like doctor character proposes killing the people who get sick on the new planet.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah. He's the leader of the of New Haven, and he's also ah the doctor, and he makes a deal with the Space French guys, where he's like, there are three billion people in our armada.
00:45:19
Speaker
yeah We can't stay on this planet because it affects 1,200 them. So attack our medical ship, and we will just go to that planet.
00:45:30
Speaker
And that that won't be a problem anymore. And this is never found out by the... like Again, I really like this bit. It's never found out by the surfer.
00:45:41
Speaker
yeah It's just that like when the issue was done, that dude kind of has to live with the knowledge that he was willing to do that, and he feels horrible about it.
00:45:53
Speaker
Yeah. so Ultimately, the solution lies with Dawn, who continues to be like, I don't know if I am okay with being in ah in any kind of relationship with the Surfer, knowing what he is responsible for.
00:46:10
Speaker
And so Surfer says, fine. I will um i think I can fold space to get us out of this loop that we're in.
00:46:23
Speaker
But to do that, I have to take back the ring I gave you, because like I cannot spare even one atom of myself. And so he like sends himself into the void, allowing the Queen of Nevers to create a new possibility.
00:46:42
Speaker
And Surfer ah creates like a big lake ring portal, wormhole kind of thing, to take the armada through. to take them to a new planet where they're all okay.
00:46:55
Speaker
So they go to this new paradise planet, and he goes, okay, Don, um I can just take you home now, if you want to just go home.
00:47:05
Speaker
And the issue ends with Don having to make the choice of what to do. Issue 12 shows that they stayed on this paradise planet for a long time.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah. and And again, this feels like a A very Doctor Who-y premise. And also kind of feels like a like an interesting Star Trek premise.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, kind of. But also like very Doctor Who-ish in the way it plays out. ah In a way that I actually like really like. Well, it's this kind of like big sci-fi idea.
00:47:42
Speaker
yeah way that it's The way that it reminds me of Star Trek, which I think you're right about. is that it's this very big sci-fi idea of like a paradise planet that ultimately ends up being a sentient planet that will do anything to keep the people there happy.
00:47:58
Speaker
Yes. Because they they mention the the reason that everybody can live on this planet, even though there three billion people from three billion different species, is that the planet itself is adaptive. So it adapts to their needs.
00:48:13
Speaker
And what you find out over the course of this story, because it's very much a I don't even remember how long we've been here. Have we been trapped here? And the planet's like, no, all of you are the last survivors of your planet.
00:48:26
Speaker
You all have severe depression. yeah like i like this is I'm helping, actually, and and giving you a comfortable and safe environment to heal these feelings.
00:48:39
Speaker
And some of the people, like a small number of people, are like, well, fuck that, actually. We don't want this illusion. And the planet's like, okay, then go, I guess.
00:48:51
Speaker
And then a lot of them stay. yeah Yeah, a lot of them stay because they're like, yeah, actually, that's that is correct. We have not been doing so good. yeah Which is, a but I think that's the i think that's the the kind of Doctor Who, or at least maybe a modern Star Trek would make that choice. Well, that the point I was going to make about it being kind of like Star Trek is that it's this huge sci-fi idea about an adaptive planet that is doing whatever it can to make the people on it happy.
00:49:21
Speaker
um Even to the point of kind of, yeah, building an illusion. But ultimately, it's in service of a relationship. Because the ultimate end of this is that Dawn and Surfer reconcile.
00:49:37
Speaker
And they even kiss on the last page. yeah Yeah. They kiss, but not on the planet, because but they're going to kiss on the planet, and then they don't.
00:49:49
Speaker
And they're like, i didn't... like I forget if it's if it's Dawn of the Surfer, who's like, I didn't want to kiss you because a planet thought I should.
00:50:01
Speaker
They both do. They both are like, no, this isn't right. ah They both kind of realize it at the same time. But then they but then they they do. They do. it's very romantic.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's nice. it's it's I like that. Of like, this big, cosmic, sprawling sci-fi idea being in service of like a pretty small romantic story. Yeah.
00:50:27
Speaker
ah
00:50:30
Speaker
That's the good stuff, honestly. yeah And then we get into the last arc, which is the Secret Wars tie-in arc, which brings back everything.
00:50:41
Speaker
It brings back ah Planet Prime. It brings back what used to be Empiricon. It brings back the Queen of Nevers. um But the universe starts collapsing in on itself because...
00:50:57
Speaker
Eternity has become Doctor Doom. Because Doctor Doom now controls everything. yeah Because he is now God. And ah they are the Surfer and Dawn are brought to kind of face down Eternity by Glory and the Maker of Miracles, who's also in that Defenders series.
00:51:19
Speaker
Uh-huh. ah Who is like, okay, um so Doctor Doom destroyed the universe, and um I need you two to make me a new one.
00:51:32
Speaker
Yeah, man. And Silver Surfer goes, how are we supposed to do that? And then I got hype. Did you get hype?
00:51:43
Speaker
About what specifically? About the fucking Shaper of Worlds showing up? The Shaper of Worlds, yeah. That's pretty good. He doesn't do a whole lot, but... He shapes some fucking worlds, dude!
00:51:55
Speaker
He helps them shape some worlds, yeah. He does help them shape worlds. ah So... This leads to Surfer and Dawn kind of splitting duties.
00:52:10
Speaker
Where Surfer's going to make the remake the rest of the universe. And Dawn's going to remake Earth. And so the first thing Dawn does is remake her home, obviously, in Massachusetts. Which she does pretty easily. She remakes all her family.
00:52:27
Speaker
Nails that. Then she starts remaking the rest of the world, and it's all like two-dimensional. Because she's never seen that. She only knows it from like the postcards and stuff that her sister has sent her.
00:52:43
Speaker
Which is great, honestly. like What a good idea. ah But that next issue ends with the Shaper of Worlds going, like this is all wrong. The shape of every world is wrong. Because at the same time, Surfer gets tempted by the idea of making the rest of the universe better.
00:53:03
Speaker
So he's like, what if there wasn't a Galactus? So he decides – he makes Galactus and then destroys Galactus. And he tries to bring back all the planets that Galactus devoured.
00:53:21
Speaker
And he's making the universe wrong and by doing that. Yeah. Because the universe has a Galactus. Right. and Much like the universe has ah Galactus' is hot mom.
00:53:34
Speaker
Exactly. But, like, I like the theory – like, Because of the story about all the refugees finding a new planet, by remaking all of their home planets, they now exist in two places.
00:53:52
Speaker
Which can't be. um That rules. yes Anyway, um what we discover is this all ended up was a huge plot ah by Glorian and his assistant,
00:54:08
Speaker
who we will learn, as the Incredulous said, to sort of build the universe in their own image. And ah it's a big like power move.
00:54:21
Speaker
Like,
Silver Surfer Series Reflection
00:54:22
Speaker
Glorion is going to kill his boss, the Shaper of Worlds, and be in charge of this universe. And they have to call in the Queen of Nevers to give them a choice between the old universe, which is...
00:54:38
Speaker
Not in great shape, but makes sense. And Glorian's new universe, which is all wrong. And they take they take eternity.
00:54:52
Speaker
And that ends the series. And it's really good. Yeah, man. It's really good. it gives It gives them kind of a new jumping off point for post-Secret Wars. Yeah.
00:55:07
Speaker
where like some of the continuity can be reset, but Dawn and Silver Surfer are still together. like that The ultimate goal of this story was to make it so that Secret Wars can happen and a bunch of stuff can change, but Dawn can still be around for the next volume.
00:55:30
Speaker
Yes. And we're going read that next. And then we'll rank the whole thing. ra the whole thing Because, like I said, i don't see it getting worse in the 2016. Yeah, and it does feel like a pretty cohesive story. Yeah. um That one is 14 issues.
00:55:55
Speaker
So um we'll we'll we'll talk about that next time and then rank the entirety of Silver Surfer 2014 and 2016, I imagine.
00:56:07
Speaker
This was a time in Marvel Comics where this happened a lot. Yeah, man. There are those two basically
00:56:17
Speaker
connected volumes of Squirrel Girl.
00:56:21
Speaker
I could probably come up with other books that also did that. Yeah. um i mean like it's It's part of the the deal with, you know...
00:56:32
Speaker
Secret Wars being about the universe ending, all the books ended. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like ah Thor did that. Yeah, Thor did that.
00:56:44
Speaker
There were other books that did that. But like there were other books that didn't end. Like Amazing Spider-Man didn't end.
00:56:51
Speaker
No, but Amazing Spider-Man also had like... like Dan Slott's run on Amazing Spider-Man also had like 15 number ones. That's true. Not that many, but a lot. it it had It had a lot.
00:57:06
Speaker
Too many. He did like at least three volumes of Amazing Spider-Man plus Superior Spider-Man plus like um no man a lot of number ones.
00:57:16
Speaker
lot of number ones, yeah.
00:57:19
Speaker
um But yeah, this ah this gives us a good opportunity to split these two things up. ah And...
00:57:30
Speaker
I loved it. I loved this. These 15 issues. yeah ive really like It is unsurprisingly a great comic. i I really thought it was...
00:57:43
Speaker
absolutely incredible. like Everyone who told us we should read this was absolutely correct. yeah it is all it It is very silly of us to have not read it before.
00:57:53
Speaker
I read like the first couple issues and it just fell off of it like I so often do. Yeah, like we do with everything. modern Here's the thing. is like if you If we miss one issue of a comic, that's that's almost always it. like Because i and if we don't do a show one week,
00:58:13
Speaker
I am probably working like instead of reading comics. like I'm probably doing anything else. oh Which is weird, because fucking love comics. yeah But then the next time i go look, I'm like, oh, well, shit, I've got to read three issues to catch up with this.
00:58:31
Speaker
Hence the name of the show. I feel like it's easier this way sometimes, to just read the whole series in one Yeah. Uh, cause it's, man, it's so hard to keep up month to month, especially when we're doing reviews for the show. That's, that's the big part of it.
00:58:47
Speaker
Honestly, like I'm trying to read a bunch of different stuff every week. Cause we don't want to talk about the same comics every show. That's a big part of why it's so hard to keep up with like ongoing books now.
00:59:01
Speaker
Um, so like in some ways I would rather do the catch up format for a lot of books where I can just sit down and enjoy it all in one go. um But I'm so glad we did this one.
00:59:13
Speaker
It's excellent.
Comics Artist Rankings Tangent
00:59:14
Speaker
If anything, I would say the first couple issues are maybe the are are the weakest. um And so that's another reason maybe why I didn't stick with it. I think it gets so much better as it goes.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah. and And we talked a lot about Dan Slott. And I feel like the reason we talked a lot about Dan Slott is because Mike Allred and Laura Allred are kind of inarguable.
00:59:39
Speaker
Like, we all know like There's a pull quote, and it's a pull quote from James Gunn, and it's like, can Mike Allred finally get his due as one of the best comics artists of all time?
00:59:51
Speaker
and I'm like what do you taught like, what do you mean finally? like that's That's common knowledge, right? mean, it's common knowledge for us. I guess. it's like Ask another ask like ah some other comics fan, and they're going to name...
01:00:09
Speaker
10 other artists before they ever get even close to Mike Allred. Yeah, I mean, I guess. I just feel like if you if if you are if you know any comics artist's name, surely you know Mike Allred.
01:00:25
Speaker
Like, they're going to name Jim Lee. oh well. They're going to name Alex Ross, George Perez, Neil Adams...
01:00:38
Speaker
I mean, I think Mike Allred's better than all those guys. That's who they're going to name, though. like yeah They might see like say, like, John Romita Sr.
01:00:49
Speaker
I would say Ditko, but a lot of people wouldn't say Ditko. I don't think, like, if anybody's going to start with Jim Lee, they ain't going to name Romita Sr. in Ditko. ah Real heads are going to Barry Windsor Smith.
01:01:06
Speaker
Well, Matt, realhead real real heads are going to start with Mike Parabak.
01:01:13
Speaker
They're going to like, guy was the best to ever do it. They're going to say Brian Boland. I mean, bright look, that's that's kind of, but yeah, Brian Boland's good. Brian Boland is good. I mean.
01:01:25
Speaker
i got that i got that Brian Boland Judge Dredd book that's got, like, all the pencils in it, like pencils and inks. Yeah. Whew. Clean. Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
Clean as a whistle. Art Adams. They're going to say Art Adams. i feel like you're naming so many people that if you know who Art Adams is, you would also name Mike Allred.
01:01:48
Speaker
I don't know that that's true. i think that's absolute. Matt, Art Adams hasn't done anything in ten years.
01:01:59
Speaker
Oh, I didn't even say Frank. I mean, obviously Frank. Yeah, I think people are going to sit say... Frank Miller, and they're going to talk about how much they love Frank Miller's art in Batman Year One.
01:02:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah um Todd.
01:02:17
Speaker
I can't, I don't.
01:02:22
Speaker
Okay, alright. I just feel like it, like, again, Todd, old heads know. But non-old heads also know Todd. Non-old heads do not know Todd.
01:02:35
Speaker
Yes, they do. well They don't, they don't because because when they buy a t-shirt from Target, it doesn't they they don't say, like oh, that's Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man. They just go, oh, Torment Part 1, that shit sounds good.
01:02:48
Speaker
I bet that's not about the fucking lizard.
01:02:54
Speaker
Old head, like, here's the problem. We're old, so you're thinking of all like the popular, you're thinking of like Wizard Magazine top ten artists. I absolutely am, that's true. Who, Mike Allred might be on there, because every now and then they like to slit Madman and Usagi Ojimbo into those reviews.
01:03:12
Speaker
They would have never put Stan Sakai on of those lists. It's weird, though. There aren't like superstar artists now, the way there used to be. I mean, there are for us. Like, Jorge Jimenez is awesome, but he's he's not at the like level of notoriety that you know Jim and Rob were, for sure.
01:03:32
Speaker
Well, I mean, no one in comics, even, like, Brian Bendis is not on the, like, Robert Kirkman is maybe on the level ah that but Todd and Rob were, but, like, no one's on that level anymore. Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:49
Speaker
ah Like, Stuart Eminen, maybe? yeah Again. Olivier Coypel?
01:04:00
Speaker
I mean, Dan Mora. Dan Mora should be in there. Oh, there's a lot of dudes who should be. i just feel like saying Mike Allred is underrated, i feel like is not accurate.
01:04:12
Speaker
I can see it. I can see it. i don't think Mike Allred... If you look up, like... the twenty like i lists of like the 25 top comics artists of all time. I don't think you're going to see Michael Redd on it.
01:04:29
Speaker
Let's see. Best comics artist. Here we go. top to From the Heritage Herald, top 10 best modern comics artists. Alright. Oh, this isn't actually a numbered list.
01:04:43
Speaker
Who do they got at... I don't even think this is in order. Okay. We'll just read them out. I mean, I do disagree with this list little bit. Jorge Jimenez is on here. I mean, that's good.
01:04:55
Speaker
That's good. Bruno Redondo. Okay. Who's also good. Everyone on here is good. ah Daniel Sampir. Good. Bilkis Evli.
01:05:06
Speaker
Also very good. That's a deep pull, honestly. Simone de Mayo. Good. Sana Taquera. All right. Sana Taquera's great.
01:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm good with that. Jorge Corona. ah Lucas Meyer, who I am very unfamiliar with. i'm not a special I'm not especially familiar with Jorge Corona.
01:05:32
Speaker
Yasmin Putri. There's a lot of artists on here who have done, like, Tom Taylor books. ah And Leonard Romero, who does... Leonard Romero and Liam Sharp, who are, like, pretty good.
01:05:47
Speaker
Liam Sharp is the one of those that does not is not like the others. Yeah. but i mean like i would But mean, I guess that is modern in that they're talking about people who kind of started within the past 10 years.
01:06:01
Speaker
Okay, CBR
01:06:05
Speaker
did a top 50 based on reader votes. You'd think Marcos Martin would be on the list, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. yeah He's probably the best artist working today.
01:06:16
Speaker
Paolo Rivera. CBR's reader-voted top 50 had Mike Allred at number 40.
01:06:25
Speaker
See, that's that's low. I mean, that is low, because number 39 is Mark Silvestri, and I think it is bananas to say that Mike Allred is not better than Mark Silvestri. Unassailably true.
01:06:37
Speaker
But see, I think that's what I'm saying. I think... Almost everyone would name the image guys. Okay, well, here's the... I'm going to give you their top 20. Because I do think these are actually fairly solid picks. Not my picks, but like the the top seven are exactly who you think they would be. Okay.
01:07:00
Speaker
Here's the top 20, alright? Art Adams.
01:07:06
Speaker
Dave Gibbons. I guessed that one. dave it's That's not true, but he drew Watchmen so far. I mean, it is kind of true, man. He's really good. He's really good, yeah.
01:07:16
Speaker
Again, like what like what you know but was the last Dave Gibbons book? but that's what i That's what I mean, yeah. Also, you draw a couple of kind of perfect ones and, you know. yeah You got your your place set, yeah. Todd.
01:07:34
Speaker
At number 17 is Jean Girard. Mibius? At number Darwin Cook. 15, Alan Davis.
01:07:50
Speaker
14, John Romita. Senior. Or junior. Okay. 13 is Frank Whiteley. 12 is Walt Simonson. I would put him much higher, actually. Yeah. 11 is Steve Ditko.
01:08:04
Speaker
Fascinating. I mean, don't think, would you rank him higher or lower?
01:08:14
Speaker
He's probably exactly where he should be. I just would imagine that CBR readers would like rank him lower. I don't feel like, Ditko did some of the best stuff in comics. I don't think he's one of the best artists.
01:08:32
Speaker
Just by what he created, I would say. Yeah, I mean, like, I would say arguably the best costume designer.
01:08:41
Speaker
Yeah. I would certainly put him above who is at number one. and But Dicko's at number 11. 10, John Buscema. That's wild. John Buscema is the 10th best comics artist of all time.
01:08:55
Speaker
On the one hand, I get it. On the other hand, that's that is wild. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're going to put you're going to put Bernie Wrights in at 33? And you're going to put John Buscema at 10?
01:09:08
Speaker
i think I think we're raking by influence there. You're going to put, I'm sorry, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez at number 46? And you're going to put John Buscema at 10? Sure, sure.
01:09:20
Speaker
Okay. Numbers are meaningless, I guess. it's This is more about who whose names people know than what who's actually good. like Because... je Like, JLGL should be in the top ten.
01:09:34
Speaker
ah yeah. JLGL should maybe be in, like, the top two. yeah Like, I'm not saying John Buscema's bad. He was, you know, Marvel art director for a long time. He's quite good.
01:09:47
Speaker
I'm saying number ten of everyone. ah Number nine, Frank. Yeah. Which is weird. Because that's very... That is a very...
01:09:58
Speaker
that that is a very Frank Miller disappeared in 1993 opinion. Yeah, that's surprisingly, well, it's surprisingly high and low. um Eight is kind of shocking. Bilsenkevich.
01:10:12
Speaker
Shocking because you think it would be higher that because you think it would be lower? i'm I'm surprised he made it into the top ten. Not because I don't like Bilsenkevich, but because he's so stylized that I i would like i wouldn't have put him there.
01:10:32
Speaker
I'm surprised other people did. He's got a very high-ranking reputation. Yeah. Everybody likes Electra... Everybody likes Electra Assassin.
01:10:43
Speaker
Yeah. At number seven, John Amita Jr. Beating the pants off his dad. I mean, as far as like comics drawn, number of comics drawn, unassailable.
01:10:57
Speaker
Now, number six to one... Are exactly who you would expect, and no one is no one is ranked correctly. Okay. Six, Neil Adams.
01:11:10
Speaker
You think he should be higher? I do not. So do you think that one's right? No, I think that one's wrong. think You think he should be lower? I don't think any of these people are ranked correctly.
01:11:23
Speaker
I do not think Neil Adams is the sixth best person to ever draw comic books. and i they I say that as someone who generally does like Neil Adams' art up to a certain point.
01:11:35
Speaker
Up to a point in time, for sure, yeah. Yeah. Number five, Alex Ross.
01:11:43
Speaker
People love him. Not the fifth best artist draw comics. Number four, Jim Lee. The fourth best artist of all time drew Wildcats?
01:12:00
Speaker
And design that new Riddler costume? My friend?
01:12:06
Speaker
ah Number three, we've got we've got look we've got boats out looking for him.
01:12:12
Speaker
we We heard we already might have come around. odd some stuff We heard he might have escaped the Bermuda Triangle. It's John Byrne. John Byrne did a lot of important comics.
01:12:24
Speaker
ah The more of his art I see, the more i think it's just pretty, just good. I, John Byrne did some really phenomenal art.
01:12:40
Speaker
Like,
01:12:43
Speaker
it like reading, reading his X-Men run in the essentials in black and white. He, he did do some incredible art. It's, it's weird how John Byrne got worse.
01:12:57
Speaker
I mean, well, he got older. Yeah, but like up to up to a certain age, you assume somebody's just going to improve and improve the older they get, right? But like look at the art in Spider-Man Chapter 1. Yeah, it's trash.
01:13:12
Speaker
It sucks. look I mean, yeah, like, Byrne did get bad after a while. old was John Byrne? How old was John Byrne in 1999 when Spider-Man Chapter 1 came out?
01:13:25
Speaker
I'll look it up. Yeah. you You can continue looking at the... John Byrne was born in 1950, so he was 50 years old when when Chapter 1 came out, which I feel like like Frank Quitely might be 50 now.
01:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that's an excuse. if if he He's 74 now. If he was doing so Spider-Man Chapter 1 now, I'd be like, okay. Frank Quitely's 57 right now. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
01:13:54
Speaker
Okay. All right. Who's after burn? Uh, number two is Jack Kirby also ranked incorrectly. Should be number one. Yeah. yeah i mean yeah Like, yeah. Right.
01:14:06
Speaker
Like, obviously. Yeah. and And then, uh, number one. And I, I'm not saying people don't believe this, but I was, I was looking at this, this list came out in 2022. Um,
01:14:25
Speaker
ah on yeah on November 4th, 2022, number one is George Perez, who died on May 6th, 2022. I don't think people are, like, don't believe that that he was the best comics artist of all time.
01:14:41
Speaker
I think there might have been a lot of people who had recently been thinking on and reflecting on George Perez. i mean Maybe if this vote happened today, it would be different. George Perez is great.
01:14:54
Speaker
I think George Perez probably belongs in the top five. I am a notorious George Perez hater. By which I mean, like, a hater in the in the mild sense of, like, I like George Perez's art just fine.
01:15:13
Speaker
You cannot deny that he drew a lot. He drew a lot, and he drew a lot of people in on a page. Yeah. like I don't think any artist was as good as George Perez at cramming characters and activity into a page.
01:15:30
Speaker
Boy, I gotta say, on this CBR list, there is ah exactly one woman. That... Is it Fiona Staples? It's Fiona Staples.
01:15:42
Speaker
Yep. Who, I think, may in fact be the 25th best comics artist of all time. Fiona Staple's great. But if she is, Ramona Freyden's the 20th.
01:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, you gotta get some others on there, man. Yeah, there's look, there's a lot. There's a lot out there. Like Jenny Fresson? Like... Come on, dude. fuck like Sarah Pacelli?
01:16:07
Speaker
You're telling me... Maggirera? ah joe majerera makes the list over, ah I don't know, Jill Thompson? Colleen Doran? Like, we can go back and look at who was doing stuff in the 90s.
01:16:22
Speaker
Like... Yeah. Anyway, none of those people are ranked correctly. ah But I do think if I was going to rank the top 50 comics artists, which, boy, that's some boco.
01:16:36
Speaker
That's some boco. We'll get Benito in here. We'll we'll we'll draft our lists. ah
Show Support and Farewell
01:16:42
Speaker
we'll We'll do a top 15. We'll each pick 10, and we'll do a top 15.
01:16:49
Speaker
ah i I would maybe put All Red at 40 if I went through everyone who had ever drawn comic books. Well, this catch-up turned into Boko here at the end, so that Boko was for everybody. Appreciate it.
01:17:08
Speaker
um We'll be back with the second half of the 2010 Silver Surfer series in June. If you would like to suggest a comic for us to read, you can email us at warrocketpodcast at gmail.com. You can also hit us up on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. We're on bluesky, warrocketajax.com, or you can join our Discord.
01:17:32
Speaker
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01:17:47
Speaker
Our website is warrocketajax.com. It has every episode of the show we've ever done. warrocketwiki.com is the fan-run information hub about this show, War Rocket Ajax. If you would like to support Comics Catch-Up and everything else that we do, the weekly War Rocket Ajax show, every story ever,
01:18:06
Speaker
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