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The Irony of Ivy with Ebrima Sanneh
112 Plays1 year ago
This week, on another illuminating episode of Apocalypse Duds, journalist and budding politico, Ebrima Sanneh. Your Dynamic Duo chew the political fat with the young buck, we see the sausage being made, we talk political clothing styles, experiences gleaned from travel, embracing identity, what it’s like buying your first suit, Ralph Lauren (duh),and loads more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Reflection
00:01:22
Speaker
Good afternoon. I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And you are listening to Apocalypse Duds. We are on the heels of
00:01:38
Speaker
or I guess we are at the something of, we just released our first video podcast ever. We have received limited feedback about this event and we are wrestling with whether or not it is worthwhile to continue because of course we have to keep up our appearances for the video. So it's very costly, you see. And we have a staff and we have makeup and we have, you know,
00:02:08
Speaker
blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I am very firmly in the no video camp because I don't know. That's just me. I don't want to watch people talk. I will listen to people talk. I don't want to watch. But we would appreciate any feedback that our listeners have. Tell us if you like it, if you don't like it. Do we truly have?
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, maybe we don't. Yeah, yeah. Do we have faces for radio is the key question. But thanks for joining along with the experiment. Nonetheless, Connor, how was Baltimore today?
Listener Feedback and Personal Anecdotes
00:02:57
Speaker
Well, I biked. I biked from my girlfriend's house to, uh, yeah, to my house and, uh,
00:03:08
Speaker
It was hot. It was kind of unpleasant. I like had my rucksack full, pretty full. And it was like cutting into my shoulders, which was exciting. I mean, it's like not meant to be a cycling bag. Yeah, but still not a comfortable situation.
00:03:34
Speaker
yeah well oh yeah no no no and it's not designed for comfort it's not aesthetics or everything rights we we we live and die by our aesthetic you gotta suffer for fashion you know yeah some sometimes sometimes you got to that is what they say yeah we are recording this on a Saturday which we don't usually do because
00:04:03
Speaker
We try to take the weekend off, but you know, we also suffer for the politics. That's mostly kidding. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Mostly kidding.
Family Photos and Personal Style
00:04:16
Speaker
And then we, we posted some pictures of my grandfather in various outfits. And we were wondering if you had any,
00:04:32
Speaker
family photos, fashionable family photos. Yeah, we're basically going to open up. We have gotten some submissions already. Yeah, we've gotten submissions. Just think about this as our old fits, which I think is probably the best name for it, to broadly open this up. But we've been enjoying, you know, enjoying seeing everyone's like,
00:04:57
Speaker
old stylized whatever children any type of like old photo of yourself where you thought you looked cool um you did look cool given the time didn't read it out there but uh yeah we're gonna expand it to
00:05:15
Speaker
you know, to family photos. Like, I'm sure I have to find some, but I'll find some of my grandpa. And like, my dad was a rocker in the 70s. So I'll find some of him killing it too. And Connor can do likewise because it's yours is a boss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. I haven't seen that many pictures of my mom as a young person.
00:05:40
Speaker
Well, yeah, this is, uh, this is now an opportunity. They're certainly out there. They're certainly out there. But yeah, like we talk a lot about evolution, uh, of interest in clothing or style or wherever you want to fucking call it, uh, all the time. That's pretty much the point of the show. And, um, you know, a lot of this shit, whether consciously or not was impactful.
00:06:10
Speaker
for a lot of us. So if that's if that's the case, please DM or email photos of cool ass looking family
Political Discussion and Age Debate
00:06:19
Speaker
members. And I think we can we can shout out Sam from our episode last week for this idea, because her parents will be on this podcast at some point. Shout out Cindy. Shout out. I can't remember her dad's name. I'm sorry, Mike, I believe. But yeah, let's see your shit. It's OK.
00:06:40
Speaker
It's okay. Let's see your shit. Also, this week in current events, Mitch McConnell had another glitch between him and Feinstein at this point.
00:06:56
Speaker
I don't know, dude, it's just reminding me of this Marc Maron bit that's about how all of these essentially dinosaur people are making laws for all of us that they're never gonna live to see implemented. And I was like, this is the saddest fucking most dystopian ship I can remember in politics.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah. Just one of those like really weird instances where you're just like, what the fuck? What the fuck? Like I'm not, I'm not trying to be ageist. I'm not trying to be ableist, but like if you can't remember or you freeze when you're making a public statement, like you probably should have a stroke, right? It's not consciously. Right. Right. Exactly. Like get medical help. He's not causing a dramatic effect.
00:07:50
Speaker
No, get better. Someone said it's elder abuse. It kind of fucking is. I just don't understand why these people are... To the extent that you can abuse hooding. Right, right, right. McConnell is this, as the Mark Mirren bit was talking about,
00:08:12
Speaker
this evangelical that just wishes for the end times as, quote unquote, prophesied in revelations. And so many people don't believe that shit. I don't know, I don't know if I'm seeing some Christian or what her beliefs are, but like, give these fucking people the help that they need and they should not be fucking making laws for this country when they don't know what they are. Sorry. Like, no one should be. I don't care.
00:08:41
Speaker
You heard it here first. I don't know what the answer is. I'm not smart enough to know what the answer is. There should be an age limit. There should be an age limit, period. There are absolutes to the human mind, and we are seeing them in effect.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, I saw something, I think it was a tweet earlier and I'm gonna paraphrase, but it was something like, if you live past the projected life expectancy or the average life expectancy in the US, you should not be in politics making laws. And I kind of stand by that. Like if the average age is 70, like we don't need people that are above that, like, you know, telling us what we're gonna be doing in 20 years, like fuck off.
00:09:25
Speaker
Anyway, this leads us into our interview that's coming up after this chitchatter that Connor and I do. It was a really fun one. Hey, Brian, is it on? Yeah, it's gonna really make you think, I think. Yeah, it does. He talked about, you know,
00:09:54
Speaker
just general kind of subconscious stuff that leaks into your into your brain and like is an influence that you kind of discover years later talked about getting getting an internship and working in politics for a short time now he's a journalist and based in DC
00:10:17
Speaker
has a great StreetSaw blog. And yeah, just an interesting character. It was a fun chat. And maybe we'll have him on to be our new DC correspondence in which we go over what the politicians are wearing while they're trying to end the world. I don't know. Seems in a repertoire.
00:10:44
Speaker
Their apocalypse duds, yes, because this joke is apparently not understood. Or the playlist of words is not understood, whatever it is. Yeah, they're very literal duds that they're wearing as they drive us to the apocalypse. Anyway, we hope you enjoyed the episode. If you would like to make a contribution to our- On that extraordinarily cheery note.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yes, that's that's what we're known for is cheer. But if you'd like to make a contribution and enjoy what you hear, Connors Venmo is at Connor Dash Fowler. His PayPal is Connor Fowler at gmail.com. And once again, thanks for listening and enjoy the episode.
Guest Introduction and Influences on Style
00:11:33
Speaker
Good afternoon. I'm Connor Fowler and I'm Matt Smith.
00:11:38
Speaker
and welcome to Apocalypse Duds. Today we have a very exciting show for you today. We have Ibrima Sana in the studio, in the virtual studio, a reporter at American Banker, former Senate staffer, all around good guy, perhaps one of the youngest guests we've had on this show, very accomplished man. So thanks for being here and thanks for bearing with us as we have gotten to the recording part of this.
00:12:06
Speaker
Of course. Thanks for having me. I know I'm young, but I didn't realize that I may hold the record. Wait, no, I'm not. How old are you? Wow, you were a baby. I'm 25.
00:12:18
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that's, I mean, I feel like- That's pretty, that's all longer, yeah. Yeah, yeah, like we have Laura and Nick and all. That is a different perspective. How old is Nick? 25, 26, I think? Yeah, 25, 26. Like, I think all of you guys are around the same age. So like, yeah, it's just, you know, Connor and I are both fucking old assholes. So, you know, when someone is 15 or more years old,
00:12:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But how are you doing today? Yeah, well, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on Pod. I'm a big fan, long-time listener. Thank you. You know, I'm doing well. I'm out here. I'm living now currently outside of DC. So, yeah. Where do you live? It's pretty hot. I live in Silver Spring. Oh, sure. Sure. I know it well. Oh, nice. Nice.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny because you guys are getting the heat wave that the South has had for the past couple of weeks and it's beautiful and in the low 80s here today. So I'm not hating life because it's so goddamn hot.
00:13:26
Speaker
Yeah. I was very sweaty. I'm so sorry that you... Sorry you guys are hating my food. This is so goddamn hot. Yeah. Yeah. This is why the camera... One of the reasons that the cameras are off is because I am like a rat. Nothing against rats. Nothing against rats. But, you know, I'm not up to my normal standards of presentation. What a monstrous person.
00:13:52
Speaker
Hey, man. Well, I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah, this is really a privilege. Awesome. Hell yeah. We're stoked to have you. I mean, it sounds like you've had a pretty wild trajectory in your life. I think from Connor's conversation with you,
00:14:12
Speaker
In the run-up to the show, you mentioned living a few different places growing up. Could you tell us where and if anything, in particular, had a profound impact on your love of clothing? Yeah, so I think I would start by framing it by saying, I'm someone who's relatively new to the, quote unquote, men's wear scene. I think I'm someone who's always been
00:14:39
Speaker
So I think this is it's a way of it's my kind of most recent iteration of expressing those those kinds of themes outwardly and I think so but you know clothing has always been something subconsciously there for me. So I grew up in
00:14:55
Speaker
Providence, Rhode Island. I was born in Providence. My mom is actually American, but my dad is from Gambia. And so my mom was in the Peace Corps and actually met my father. He was living there. They basically came back together and I was on New England. So yeah, I would say, you know, obviously New England has its own stamp. You know, I think I'm going to keep going through the list because there's a lot and then I'll kind of
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah, totally, totally. I moved after I grew up in Providence in the city. I moved to the suburbs when I was still a young child to a little town called Warwick. It's actually a city. It's, you know, basically, if you fly into Providence, you'll fly into TF Green. You're actually landing in, so that's pretty much mine. You know, that was a typical suburb. So, yeah, I was a suburban kid for a while. After
00:15:49
Speaker
middle school I had my parents actually moved my dad to dock and I moved to Sacramento so I spent high school in kind of like a suburb of Sacramento and what's known as the foothills and so then after high school I graduated went to one of the few schools I got into which was UC Santa Cruz and I spent some time there I spent about two years in Santa Cruz if you've ever been there it's kind of a
00:16:14
Speaker
beach town for a lot of Californians and yeah it's kind of like a kind of has a reputation of being like a classic like hippie spot right
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, so that has its own flavor. I was only there for two years, but there's a big skate scene, there's a big art scene, just hippie scene. Then after I was in Santa Cruz, I went to LA, I transferred to UCLA, spent the rest of school there. Between those times, I actually did an internship in DC, so I got to live on East Coast again.
00:16:45
Speaker
I studied abroad in Italy as well. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then after Yeah, after all of that, I was still I was back in LA for the remainder of college, finishing up my senior year. And that's right when the pandemic hit. So I was I ended up moving back home, my folks actually with them. And then I ended up getting a job.
00:17:09
Speaker
politics, which eventually brought me back to new to DC, but I'm into this area in the mid Atlantic, but I'm, you know, it feels familiar. Yeah. And yeah, in between there, I've traveled and I think all of those places have had an impact on my style. I think, you know, in Rhode Island,
00:17:28
Speaker
You know, Rhode Island is known for being it's New England, but it has its own small kind of identity. It's it's it's very well known for being small and being people being proud of how nice should tighten it everything. So can I ask a question? Yeah, no, go ahead. Please stop me. Sorry. Yeah, my mic was my mic was off. Your parents live in Arkansas after living all over the place. Why did they choose Arkansas?
00:17:54
Speaker
Like I said, my dad's a doctor, so he jobs at her. I see. Ah. That tracks. That tracks. I didn't know if there was like, I don't know, like a farm or something. I don't know. I'm sure there's stuff going on in Arkansas. No, I mean, we have friends and family, but they live in the city. And Little Rock is kind of cool, right? Yeah, every place has its blue
00:18:22
Speaker
oases and I think it's a particularly yeah it that's the place I'd like to live but but you know there's a lot of nice places if you like I noticed something recently that I've always lived in right so I've kind of that's sort of just my comfort zone but I you know Arkansas has definitely pushed me because even being in
00:18:42
Speaker
the most populated and urban part of the state. It's, you know, it's a Southern city. It's the Deep South has a whole list of kind of culture shocks, but also things that I've been surprised by, you know? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Very effective. You must be very effective in politics. That's my assessment. That's my assessment of things so far. I'm people call me diplomatic. That's probably true. Yeah, I would have said diplomatic, pragmatic, one of these words. But yeah, judicious.
00:19:10
Speaker
But I really have lived in so many different areas that I don't, it's not that I'm just kind of trying to be super, like I'm also known for being pretty blunt. You know, each place truly has its own flavor, but
00:19:24
Speaker
Ultimately, you realize that everywhere. Well, you think you can only I think I guess you can only get that from seeing other places, right? Somebody lives in Baltimore. They never leave Baltimore. It's like it's all that there is. Right. And that is a pretty limiting, I don't know, factor.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah, and that's that's I mean, that kind of loops me back to what I was saying about just kind of individual influences. I think each part. Yeah, every time I moved, I had this shock where I was like, wow, people dress completely different here. People live completely. And yeah, this is like one of the first conversations that you and I ever had.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt you again, but I was amazed by your knowledge of these regional things about dressing. Anyway, it's a compliment, of course. Thanks. But you know what? There's benefits and cons. I think you get a lot of knowledge about a foot deep and a mile wide, but you don't really get
00:20:23
Speaker
to stay in one place and feel like you so it's kind of you know it's a trade-off but yeah I would like to just dive into kind of like what the specific each place kind of left the mark on me um I think you know in Rhode Island specifically I have a lot of memories of things subconsciously being preppy and um sort of just like having that new flavor to them without consciously knowing that those were regional so like so like what's the new what's the New England flavor
00:20:51
Speaker
Well, you know, if you're prepared, I mean, so Rhode Island is is a coastal place known as the ocean state. I mean, look at the flag. It's it's got an anchor on as these kind of cards very not. So I would say there's like a consciousness of being near the ocean.
00:21:08
Speaker
the water is a big theme and just going to the beach you know having that leisure when you have leader time you go to the beach you um yeah so i i think that's the the kind of biggest tent pool uh there's there's a lot of immigrant groups there there's a lot of italian portuguese there's also a big
00:21:27
Speaker
kind of old WASP community of just like Mayflower descendants. There's immigrants more recently, there's Dominicans in Providence, we Caribbean, African, Cape Verdean. So there's like a lot of different cultures there, but it's also is predominantly white, you know, and I'm just talking about Renee. So I think a lot of the culture comes from the groups that I make. I don't know, I just, this is sort of like just jet diving, right? But I feel like there's a lot of, I can narrow it down by identity. Dive, please.
00:21:56
Speaker
So like think about brands like Black Dog, which is like a restaurant and tavern in Martha's Vineyard. And it's, you know, they, I don't know if you've ever seen the brand, but it's, it's just a Black Dog, various types of merchants. That was super New England. Like I didn't, I don't really see that elsewhere. But I don't know. I don't know if I've seen it. I've probably seen it and not like taken it in. It's like life is good. It's like life is good. Yeah.
00:22:22
Speaker
It's like life is good and Vineyard Vines had a baby or a love child, let's say, and took took the essence of both things and made it made it into one. Definitely. Obviously, like the L.L. Beans and Lanzan. I don't know if you guys know. So Vera Bradley, that it's like a super preppy. That's big down south, too. So I feel like but Abercrombie, I always assumed Vera Bradley was a Southern brand, actually.
00:22:50
Speaker
That's a good question. I don't know. I don't either. It's everyone. So definitely like the Abercrombie's, the Aeropostals, American Eagle. Polo has always been there. I was also big into skating. So skate brands, skate shoes.
00:23:07
Speaker
But I was also growing up in the mid 2000, mid to late 2000. So it was, you know, we were wearing kind of weird neo prep stuff like the puka shell necklaces, however you say that. Sure. You know, the fight ends like the like the baseball necklaces that players used to wear. That was really big. Yeah. And then braided rope bracelets, stuff like that. So kind of weird grab bag of stuff.
00:23:37
Speaker
I saw some DC shoes in the wild. I have not seen a pair of DC shoes. I didn't even know when the last time I saw them was, but this dude was walking down the street, just wearing them. Yeah, man. I can see it coming back.
00:23:53
Speaker
You see all the, you know, a lot of the Gen Z. He was not a young. He was in this. I'm sorry. He was not young. He was like an older dude. He was like in his 40s or 50s. Yeah. He definitely has a long way. Yeah. Or somewhere.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think the skating style really got amplified when I moved to Sacramento because, you know, California has such a big skate culture, but it's to the point where people don't, you know, it's like skating to California is like prep to New England. Like it's just there. You don't really talk about it. You know what I mean? Like everyone in Sacramento wears Vans.
00:24:30
Speaker
everybody, just the classic, you know, kid style. That's a funny thing, but I think that's good. I mean, I've only like, limitedly been to California, but, you know, skating is prep in California. I think this nail on head kind of.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's sort of just like the underlying fabric of what people, so like, you know, Chino's graphic tees, mall brands, like Crooks and Castles, Diamond Supply Co, Snapbacks. This was the time where SoundCloud rap was really big and everyone was wearing Roshi runs. So I'm just kind of throwing out like all these kinds of things. Yeah, the rise and fall, the rise and fall of the Roshi run.
00:25:09
Speaker
So I never, this was, you know, a lot before I actually got into actual style. A lot of that continued when I was in Santa Cruz. You know, no, no, it's all style. Yeah. I'll say it's before I got into men's wear. This was much, much more. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Like.
00:25:27
Speaker
I think one of the biggest goals of what we are trying to do with our stupid little podcast is like, there's building blocks for everyone. And like, these are your building blocks, like whether you, you know, as you said, like consciously knew it or not, like, this is all important because it culminates in where you are at this point in this weird, funny little journey that all of us nerds are on.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Matt, you're going to make me cry. I will say, sorry, Connor. I got to throw you under the bus with this one. Connor told me yesterday that I'd become his barometer for things to buy because if it's something I hate, it's something he's going to love. And I have never felt like I failed more as a human being and friend than when I read that statement. I haven't really had no response.
00:26:23
Speaker
human being, human being and friend. Sorry. It just is what it is, generational. Yeah. And I think that looking back on what you wore, I think it tells you a lot about where you lived. You can reflect on how the culture was there based on what you remember when. I think that just now talking about it, I'm realizing the difference between the two sort of... Oh, yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
tension within me that I'm still kind of trying to resolve. But I kind of want to try to connect this to where I sort of touched menswear first time, which is throughout all of these, I was skating, I was into streetwear during college, still into a lot of the skate brands. I started getting into vintage, a little more 90s type stuff. I did in fact wear the colored camo cargo. I don't know if you remember the episode. Oh yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I think when I really started getting into menswear was, uh, when I had to do an internship in
Journey in Menswear and Style Evolution
00:27:29
Speaker
politics. So I interned for this guy named Jimmy Panetta, who's a representative on the center. And basically I, I started doing an internship. I ended up going to some of the California demo conventions and that all requires more formal stuff. And that's kind of how I started. So I wasn't really by choice.
00:27:45
Speaker
No, dude, me too. That's exactly what happened to me. I was very opposed to it. I really did not like tailoring. I kind of thought it was whack, unless you were doing it in a certain way, like Nirvana, like Kurt Cobain, like Sex Pistols. Interesting. Is it politics for you as well? Was that also kind of a three? Yeah, I started interning for Steny. And I was like, man, I can't wear fucking bands to this shit anymore.
00:28:14
Speaker
It's funny you say that because I think things have sort of I know. And it's like, oh, it's it's spoiler alert. We are going to get to this later in the interview. But oh, man, we could riff on this shit for a fucking hour. So I think we plan to. So when you first get your.
00:28:33
Speaker
you know, internship, it's like, okay, you go get a suit, right? So I went and got this kind of, I remember it was like a Ryan Seacrest collection Macy's suit. And it was super skinny, didn't even fit 42 long. Like I just, I don't know why I picked it, but you know, I spent like a couple of hundred dollars on it. And then I got home and it didn't fit. And I think that's like sort of like where I started my journey and damn, how do I avoid
00:29:04
Speaker
You know, when you just make a mistake and you're like, I don't ever want to do that again. I think that's. It's like, yeah, it's a little humiliation. My mom was like, because I remember reading GQ, you know, I would just sit in the office and read GQ because they didn't have any work. And there would be fits that I would try out, you know, like there's a guy wearing Samba's with this suit. This is like 2008, 2007. And my mom would just be like, what are you wearing? Where are you going?
00:29:25
Speaker
Like I had to wear it because of my...
00:29:33
Speaker
And it's like, Jesus Christ, like, ah, but you had to strive.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, you have to strive. And there's, and it's kind of interesting to me why, you know, I always, I always try to ask myself, why did I think a dark, like, especially a black shoe, why did I just assume I did? And I think that led me down this path of, okay, how did I miss, you know, it's like, how did I miss that? I feel like I was a good dresser in other senses, but somehow classic menswear is an unspoken kind of rule book that I wanted to know more about.
00:30:04
Speaker
And so I think that's where we're all on this, just trying to learn where we fit in the legacy of rules and address, but, you know, learning the rules so that you can break it in a way that fits your footprint, let's say. Very good. Very good. Legacy of rules. Very good. I wonder what Matt asked to say about this because probably pretty good what it is.
00:30:27
Speaker
would be my guess. Yeah like Connor and I you know we're talking in the run-up to this as we were brainstorming about shit and he told me or relayed I guess what she said about the black suit and I just feel like that is one of those things like if you've never never really had experience with tailored clothing you're not really interested in it and you get foisted
00:30:51
Speaker
into a situation where you have to like know some shit about it every motherfucker on the planet is just like that doesn't know anything it's like oh black suit makes total fucking sense and it's like yeah if you remember they saw it as war dogs
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, like if you're a fucking mobster, if you're a member of the hives or the strokes in the, you know, like, yeah, like it makes sense. But, you know, for most, for most people, none of us knew that, like, this is the dumbest fucking purchase I've ever made in my life. But it was advised. It was advised by GQ. They say you could get a blue or a gray suit. Right.
00:31:32
Speaker
but then you should have a black suit because you need one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still out on that, that whole thing. But like, yeah, if you, if you don't know what you're doing and like some idiot salesperson, no offense to the salesperson, they're, they're just uninformed and they're working a crappy job at Macy's. They're like, Oh yeah, my dad fucking suits.
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah like well that and then they're also like I know nothing about this really but my dad told me I had to have a black student in 1987 and so I recommend this is the first suit you buy and you're like okay sure and then you feel you know down the road like a moron when you actually start learning about it but
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's classic, it's like you just totally, totally. The less you know about the more confident you feel. Oh, yeah. You know, I saw the president's all where it's like the Mandela effect. The presidents are wearing black suits, right? And it just kind of right in your head that way. Yeah, they all wore black suits. Like I think, you know, and you look at it and that's just ignorance, too. Right. Because their suits are Navy, but the color doesn't come through on the television. So it looks black.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah, and that's or they're charcoal, which also. Right. Yeah, exactly. Like that's that's one reason why midnight blue suits were super popular during black and white TV because they read they read a better color than black, which read green on the screen. So, you know, like it's just there's all you see that there's all of these black and white. Yeah.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, and like there's all these crazy nuances that like, if you're not, you know, maybe it's the easiest time to ever learn the shit in 2023. But like, this was, you know, this was your experience was pre blogosphere. Like, Connor and I's experience was pre pre blogosphere, where like, people were actually talking about the shit. But, you know,
00:33:23
Speaker
like what normal person is going to just pick up a GQ because oh yeah this looks interesting at the grocery store if you're not like actually into tailored clothing. Well and there's something to say too I think about you know some people have different uses for um I think this you can extend this metaphor of of being a novice in in dressing in a
00:33:45
Speaker
in a corporate setting or in a political setting of as kind of being it reflects your actual level of expertise just in the professional world too because I think oh for sure you even go but but what's crazy is that you you'll go into I sometimes you know I still I'm a reporter so sometimes I do go into meetings or to do interviews and I often will still see a lot of people wearing
00:34:09
Speaker
Just really bad combination. Unspeakable order. DC is an atrocity. It can be really a place where people dress well, but it is also a place where people can dress. And that's either for intentional or unintentional, all with their own accompanying... All at their own peril. Yeah. But yeah, I'm curious what questions you guys have about kind of politics and style, because for me, it's like,
00:34:37
Speaker
I'm swimming in this water, so I just wanna like. Right. Well, it's kind of an on the ground account of like the atrocities and the triumphs that you see on, it sounds like basically a daily basis. Yeah, so I don't work in the Capitol anymore, but when I did, so the main thing is that it's not even that hard to explain Hill style, which is, you know, I'm gonna take Capitol Hill as the.
00:35:05
Speaker
I love it. Hashtag hill style. That's that's fucking great. Hill 169 or whatever. Yep. I'm officially a Kool-Aid drinker. So I but you know, the hill style is it kind of boils down, especially men's wear boils down to basically a navy slim fit, slim lapel, polyester or or light blue.
00:35:29
Speaker
suit with kind of these beige or light brown leather shoe or belt. And yeah, that's pretty much maybe a red tie and white shirt. I think those are kind of like that. That's sort of like the most stereotypical outfit you see. Women's wear is much more interesting. I can't really speak for that because I don't have expertise on that. But let's just stick to men's wear. And you know, that's the tip.
00:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you follow Derek at DieWorkWhere on Twitter, a former guest to the host and friend of the show, this is the shit that he roasts all day, every day on Twitter. And it's some of the most hilarious shit I've ever seen in my life. But, you know, like hearing it versus seeing it like from a third party, like this is this is just genuinely hilarious that like it can be boiled down in such a astute way.
00:36:19
Speaker
Well, I think that it's interesting because the same forces that led me to think a Black suit was flying are the same forces that lead people to think a Navy suit is also flying. Right, right. It's kind of this like, go long to get along, Emperor has no clothes situation.
00:36:35
Speaker
People who empowered make poor decisions about style, so therefore the underlings. I don't know how else to explain it besides that, but there are good dressers. There are certainly good dressers. I think the emperor's close point is a good one, right? Because I was going to ask sort of rhetorically.
00:36:55
Speaker
how does it happen that we have people in the seats of power who seemingly like, I don't know, Tress in the Dark, that's like trite, whatever it is, it's bad. And they have huge staffs of people who say nothing, apparently. Well, think about it, right? There's a lot of rhetoric that comes across me. So like, it's not just the quality of clothing you're wearing, because there's plenty of, you know,
00:37:24
Speaker
That's why Bernie Sanders wears holes. To boil it down, long story short, I think in politics, you don't want to look like an investment banker. You also don't want to look like a sloppy juror. You want to look somewhere in between. And I think it's like being too corporate is bad for some politicians and being too informal is equally bad for others in that situation. And what chamber?
00:37:45
Speaker
So you mentioned Ralph a couple of times already and we are huge fans of Uncle Ralph on this program. What was your first exposure to Ralph Lauren and what was your first purchase?
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, so I think Ralph, I can't tell you my first exposure because I think it's just a vibe. Right, right. Well, you mentioned it was ubiquitous. So yeah, first exposure probably doesn't really matter. But like, I guess the first time you really like sought out Ralph Lauren.
00:38:22
Speaker
The first time that I actually bought a piece was when I, so I got a job, I started working at like 14 or if you're pretty young, I worked at a toy store. One of the first paychecks I got, I went straight to the TJ Maxx across the, you know, strip mall parking lot and got like a polo, it's like a USA polo crew neck, has like an embroidered USA, but it's all black. Yeah!
00:38:43
Speaker
I think it was Cotton, and it was really nice blue label, kind of like a reverse weave type of thing. So I think, like I said, I think Ralph was just, to me, like a staple of quality. And I don't know exactly, I can't tell you exactly where that come from. A big part of it was probably growing to camp and meeting people from New York specifically. Right. Polar. So, and, you know, I just had friends from like the Bronx or people from New York who would, who would
00:39:10
Speaker
tell me about the lowlife culture, talking about how people used to go. And those are the ones who kind of gave me the lore of, I had a friend named Harold at camp who used to just give me the lore about how that stuff started in the 90s. I mean, you guys can, you know that. So I think that that was one of those forces. That was around 2010 to 2014. So a time where New York was all different
00:39:37
Speaker
kind of style. I think people were wearing a lot of true religions and polo boots and rubbies, that kind of stuff. So it was it was a weird
00:39:46
Speaker
in between time where I think polo had this resurgence. And so I happened to be there to soak and yeah. Yeah. The low life story, I will go on record as saying it can never be talked about enough because like that, that shit is one of my favorite actual, like historical things about American fashion. And yeah, we, we touched on that quite a bit, but yeah, I'm like, it's, it's fucking cool that you're like,
00:40:13
Speaker
you know second or third hand from these these kids that like you connected with a camp and they they were from this and then you yeah just like this whole situation is fucking rad.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think also it can't be overstated the impact of just availability. Polo is just in every thrift store and every secondhand shop. It is. So it's quality and it's around. And so I think that's, yeah, it's accessible and it's good quality. So that's what really ultimately led me to stick with it. Yeah. Do you think... I have never bought it at retail.
00:40:52
Speaker
Most people have never bought it at retail. Yeah, it's like, it's like, yeah, it's to the point. Do you think that that like, do you think that the polo kind of like experience did that have some sort of like impact on your on your getting into like more Ivy like tailored shit later on subconsciously or not?
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, my real, so like I said, I think when I started doing political stuff, my real journey into men's were started. But I've had, I think these things, you know, I was a history major. It's like if I had to, not to get too tangled, but just a chart, the like arc of my style emergence.
00:41:36
Speaker
was like, it's just very uneven, right? There's these moments where you kind of leap forward because something impacted. And I think I had a couple of milestones like that, like specifically working in the Senate, I had a coworker who was just really into menswear. And so we would kind of make it a thing where every day we would try to outdo each other almost and try to, you know, try to be the best dressers in the office. I personally think I prevailed, but that's up to
00:42:05
Speaker
to interpret. Anyway, the guy was a great, in all seriousness, he was a great mentor to me, just, you know, both in the professional sense, but just telling me sort of, Oh, yeah, you can't wear a tie like that. You can't wear a, you know, I don't know, just there's lots of rules, right? Like, you can't wear tan shoes with a navy suit. That was something I learned from him. I think
00:42:26
Speaker
learning the importance of different natural fiber, a fuller cut sometimes being more flattering. Like those are all things that I really started to soak up. And this is just maybe two or three years ago. So I make no, you know, I don't kind of harbor any illusion that I'm a total novice when it comes to the hardcore menswear. But the minute you jump in, I feel like you just want to keep learning. And it just feels like a cheat code. You feel like you're in this sort of like cool kids club, you know?
00:43:05
Speaker
You know, it has been for, I think I joined my first forum in like 2006. So we're talking like 17 years of my life being like impacted or influenced or like, you know, whatever about this by this hobby that a bunch of, you know, us random people seem to inhabit. Like, I'm not as much in the tailored world anymore. But like, it's so fucking cool to me. And like, even though you're a novice, like you said, like, once you get into it, you just want to learn everything.
00:43:09
Speaker
Wherever you go.
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, so it will are like, for the most part, eager to help. I mean, I think that that too, like it's it's mostly a very polite community. Yeah, it isn't super hostile. Like I have been on many online things that are. And so at least this iteration of Internet men's, where it's like very, I don't know, like friendly has been my experience with it.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think having connected with particular groups in men's wear, particularly how far those market has been really because I and connecting, of course, with your two kinds. You're too kind.
00:44:17
Speaker
But really, I think just being able to talk to people who, like you said, aren't judgmental. They meet you where you're at. You don't have to know every weave and a pattern. The technical knowledge comes. What's important is the appreciation. Yeah. And I feel like with most subcultures, you can kind of pick out the bullshit. You can pick out the people that aren't going to care in six months or whatever.
00:44:45
Speaker
You know, not that that's a bad thing. Anybody that's exposed to this shit, I think, is better than not. But the people that actually give a fuck are those people that are like, yeah, I don't mind helping out. We're all just in this funny circle together.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's not hard to be positive and it's not hard to pick out the people that actually give a shit. It's refreshing though because I think we need more of it. Oh yeah, totally. So you talked in our call about preppy irony. I wanted to talk about that or I guess the amount of irony that infuse in your preppy dressing because that's like big for me as well.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah, so this gets to, this is complex. I mean, I don't, I think the philosophy around what you wear is something that you can play every time, but we may not write it, vocalize it. And so it can be, I don't want to just, I want to be specific. I think in my case, there's something ironic I think about, you know, how the, this, the sort of distance between how people might perceive you
00:45:57
Speaker
when you're dressed a certain way and how they would perceive you when you're dressed. And I think, you know, so we talk about everyone's, everyone's read the book, Black Ivy, right? I think that's kind of what cracked open a lot of this, you know, philosophy for me, which is that you can reclaim things as a person, specifically as a black man. I think you can reclaim a lot of dignity. I think you can reclaim a lot of style.
00:46:24
Speaker
And I think people treat you better when you dress a certain way. And I think that's for better or worse, right? Like I would love for everyone to be able to dress slobbily or to not have to worry about their appearance, you know, in relationship. But I think it's also important to remember that
00:46:44
Speaker
Ultimately, you know, you can affect the world around you, the way the world around you treats you, I think by dressing this way. So to me, the irony of Ivy is that it's this really historic and gate-capped set of rules. And it's definitely, I mean, in many ways it's existed in literally gate-capped spaces, like exclusive
00:47:09
Speaker
private venues. But the irony is that it's the most accessible style and it's the most widely appropriated style in America. So to touch back on my identity a little bit, on the one hand, I was raised by my mom's family primarily. They're kind of what you would call just wasps or Anglo or German-American who are
00:47:34
Speaker
descended from the Mayflower and just basically as American as it gets. But on the other hand, so in some ways Ivy style or preppy style kind of makes sense when you look at one side of my family, but then when you look at the other, I think my dad didn't complete elementary school. He was an immigrant. I'm a first generation American on that side. So, you know, it's kind of like,
00:47:59
Speaker
that aspiration, I think that Ralph Lauren always is credited with popularized. That's sort of what I like to tap into this idea that, you know, both this idea that I'm kind of doing something that's not, that is natural for me, that is part of my identity, as far as being an American and being someone who grew up around preppy clothes
Clothing and Identity
00:48:21
Speaker
or
00:48:21
Speaker
grew up around my grandpa wearing an LL Bean flannel and LL Bean shearling mocks or whatever. That kind of stuff is just like, that was in my house. Bean boots were always it. How was we thrown? So in a way it's really the most natural style for me, but it's also
00:48:40
Speaker
that's not what people think. I'm sure that I have this long history, right? So it's like, and that's kind of a central frustration of my life too, is feeling like, although, you know, I have this one side of me that's very much as American as it gets, like I said, people, you know, you can't force people to perceive you a certain way. You can only influence how, you know, the assumptions that they make. And I think
00:49:09
Speaker
Prepping this to me can be an ironic way. Being subversive, using tools that are highly conformed, if that makes sense. Can you say that again? Can you say that again? With the tools that can highly conformity...
00:49:26
Speaker
So I think you're, I think in many ways just wearing like, let's, okay, let's think about the most preppy thing you can think of, right? Just like a menswear, like uniform, like wearing some flannel, gray, blazers, navy blazer with gold buttons, red rep, striped tie, you know, striped white and blue.
00:49:50
Speaker
vertical striped Oxford cloth button, penny loafers or white sock. Like just wearing that I think as a person of color can be kind of, that's something you don't picture necessarily historically as being donned by people of color and so I think just wearing you know basically like this old British influenced style can in one way be subversive but it's also
00:50:14
Speaker
You're kind of, I think wearing Ivy style is a way for everyone in America to kind of acknowledge that, number one, we all belong here, regardless of our bad, regardless of where our parents are from, if we've been here for nine generations or we've been here for only one. But I think it's also this acknowledgement that everyone should be able to access
00:50:37
Speaker
a look or a outward appearance that exudes dignity. And I think having that combination of accessible and dignified is sort of like the concoction for me that both characterizes Black Eye and even also. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. It's an active resistance in a way.
00:50:55
Speaker
it is it is but but it's also like it's also one of those things that like you for example is baked into your dna as an american and for many many people it is but it's you know like everything i'm sorry yeah go for it no no you're it
00:51:18
Speaker
So, well, just to give you an example, I think I have a lot of friends. So I have one of my best friends is Chilean or Chilean. He's from Chile and he is white. Like he's pretty similar complexion to Connor actually. He has red hair.
00:51:36
Speaker
And he, you know, so, but he is outwardly presents his way whether or not, right. I mean, he's actually part Brazilian, so there's a whole conversation to be had there. But me and him, I'll have a lot of conversations about, you know, particular pieces, like I'll pull out a kind of just
00:51:54
Speaker
classic polo shirt, right? And let's say it's a solid navy blue polo shirt with a red course. You know, that's the kind of thing that me and him will kind of just differ. I like pieces like that. I like classic kind of like super almost vanilla polo pieces that are just like really stable because I think to me
00:52:16
Speaker
just wearing something really plain like that still, it still complements me because in some ways I go against that and not being like a traditional, you know, I'm not, I don't present as somebody who maybe would be attending an Ivy League university in the 1950s, right? Okay.
00:52:40
Speaker
But on the other hand, it's like, you know, he'll often say, well, I couldn't wear that. I would look like a frat boy. And it's like, I think that to me, right, is like what the function of Black Ivy is in conjunction with Preppy Style, is that Preppy Style or Ivy, I'm using them interchangeably. I think our, everybody has to kind of fit them into their own identity. And so while I might, you know, be very, let's say even conformist and just wearing kind of like
00:53:09
Speaker
rep stripe ties and wearing nice navy blazers. That's by far the thing I have the most of. Someone else who feels like they already kind of exude this essentially that they're in some sort of in-group in America, someone who's white, someone who doesn't get profiled necessarily based
00:53:31
Speaker
solely on their race. I think those kinds of people are less prone to wearing something that sort of is associated with this long tradition because they feel like they want to balance out their in-group status with pushing back on that. So maybe trying to add some flair and adding some camo for example. I don't really wear camo. I think part of the reason I don't wear camo is that camo to me is like
00:53:54
Speaker
something that I really heavily associate with hip-hop and yeah, there was a time where I unironically wore a camo, but it just doesn't hit the same, you know what I mean? If my wife wears camo, it looks sick on him. To me, it's not like you can't pull it off. Anybody can pull these things off, but it just, you know, that's just how I choose to really contrast my perceptions about the clothes I wear with the perceptions probably that I,
00:54:21
Speaker
get the perceptions of myself. Yeah. Right. Right. Which neither Connor nor myself like really have these problems. And that's that is in and of itself a problem. But it's a it's a it's a challenge, you know?
00:54:37
Speaker
I think you've got your own challenges because you can't walk into a, like, I feel like I can truly just wear the most vanilla stuff and it looks subversive because it's contrasting my identity. Whereas I think a lot of people have to search a little bit more for, you know, things, you know, you can't just walk in. Like I'm also a size that's like very common in old men. Like I'm like 42 long, 36 waist. Like that's just very common. So yeah, for sure. Yeah.
00:55:06
Speaker
Do we wanna talk about at what people are wearing in? Oh yeah, that would be great. I would like to, yeah, it's a cool idea. It is a cool idea, yeah. So I guess we'll let you describe it, cause you would say better than us, but it's a street style Instagram, sort of among other things. Yeah, so my kind of street style page came about cause I,
00:55:34
Speaker
just had started taking a lot of street style photos on my camera.
00:55:39
Speaker
I've done some travel. Yeah, we had the same camera for a short while. That's right. We did. And I've taken photos both on sort of like a point and shoe and also my just my. So I'm not a photographer, but I feel like I enjoy capturing outfits. And so I thought I got to just put these somewhere or else I'm going to lose them. And my camera started posting them. And I think it's been a good way to just keep tabs on style I see around me, but also
00:56:06
Speaker
a way to directly connect with the style community on Instagram. It's been an interesting time. Yeah, and it's at what people are wearing it. Did I say it wrong? Or just doubling up? Just doubling up. Just in case. Yeah, just doubling up. Just doubling up. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. This is all edited too, right? I assume you guys don't know. Depends. It depends. If you need help, I can. But yeah. So we can discuss that, certainly.
00:56:36
Speaker
But yeah, being on Instagram really just connects you to a whole world of style. And it's amazing how similar it is. So I've been really, I felt really grateful that kind of, some people that I really admire, like Shane, it's been great getting to know people who really know. Yeah. Like for me, I was in New York when like kind of the, the heyday of hashtag men's where it happened. Like 20, I moved there in 2011 and I left in like 2014. So.
00:57:05
Speaker
you know that's that's when like tumblr was a huge thing and like instagram was just kind of like ramping up but this like second generation of like online community has i don't know it's it's like a beautiful thing to see and i'm a cynical motherfucker but like that's that's so true to me yeah it's definitely like the post pandemic wave and
00:57:28
Speaker
Like it was a way that a lot of us like kept in touch with human beings in our day-to-day life for so long, you know, while the pandemic's been happening and now like, I don't know, like there were friendships and bonds formed, like our fucking show started because of this, you know, this kind of thing. And like, I don't know, that is where I think in the earlier segment where Connor was getting like,
00:57:55
Speaker
at with you being on the younger side of things, it's good to get that perspective. Yeah. I'm definitely coming at it.
00:58:03
Speaker
from a younger person's perspective and as somebody who most people my age don't dress classically, let's say. So that's also kind of, that touches on what we said before about, I think in some ways just dressing up is- Totally, totally. I often have kind of debates with people about whether or not businessmen or people and tech CEOs, whether it's kind of like,
00:58:32
Speaker
You know, I guess the central question is if wearing a suit is a power move or if it if it kind of makes you look me and I think it depends on the suit, you know, I think it really depends if you know, like, for example, investment bankers, they don't wear, you know,
00:58:50
Speaker
sneakers and vests. They wear nice Italian suits and they still wear their ties. And so anyway, I think there's a lot to be said about how, you know, younger people are starting to pick up some of the more formal and wear at the same time that, you know, and that's moving on its own kind of track as opposed to like classic, you know, business wear. I think that's sort of static.
00:59:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, agreed. I mean, we were, you know, going to talk about horrible silent politics and sneaker bottom dress shoes. Number one, the like fleece Patagonia ish vest is probably my number one over the shoes. But like, what, why on earth do people that are like the faces of the nation dress so fucking bad, do you think?
00:59:41
Speaker
Well, I have a couple reasons. I think part of it is that there's a balance, like I said before about this. You want to not intimidate people with the clothes you wear, and you don't want to look corrupt, frankly. Right. Right. While I love Chuck Schumer- Great way to put it. While I love that Chuck Schumer always wears Hermes ties, it doesn't necessarily bode so well for him being kind of a man of people. So there's a lot of
01:00:06
Speaker
Although I like Chuck Schumer, old school. I think he's a good dresser too. But yeah, people dress badly because they don't care. And nobody is really holding, none of their colleagues are holding that to the standard because we've kind of just like, as a society, I think. So there's a lot of, you know, wearing suits with like, you know, new balances or something, which I'm not talking about 990, the dad shoes.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it was like six inch break on the non-cuffed trouser. Yeah. Yeah. The six inch worsted rumble at the bottom of most. Yeah. Yeah. Legs. But yeah, I mean, so there's, I think it's kind of like this, like it, and this is, this goes back to that debate I was just touching on, which is that I think a lot of people would actually argue trying too hard to look good is kind of a sign of being middle
01:01:02
Speaker
Right, right. These days, if you can afford to basically wear, to look like a slob, or not necessarily a slob, but look like somebody who basically doesn't care how others judge them for what they want. You know, that can signal to many, like kind of a power move, like in a lot of tech moguls will wear jeans and they'll wear, you know, all birds or something and like a fleece vest, right? And so a lot of politicians.
Political Style and Perception
01:01:31
Speaker
Right.
01:01:31
Speaker
They're not trying to, they really don't want to detract from any potential perception of their competency. You know, that could be somehow siphoned by trying to love Mindy or being the show horse. Many of them want to know him for being war court, even if they're really not. So it's kind of like this reverse psychology of trying to exude
01:01:55
Speaker
Not studied carelessness, but just carelessness. I'm too rich and powerful. I think that's a big part. On the other hand, they're old. A lot of them don't really care about style and they're just trying to be comfortable. There used to be a time where a lot of politicians
01:02:11
Speaker
you know, we're kind of like tastemakers in style. I think it's kind of right. Right. It's not the case anyway, but there are still honestly. Yeah, there's a few. There's a few. Honestly, don't you think it correlates with general approval of politicians? Interesting.
01:02:28
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, think about it. If you go back through the president so far, I mean, it seems sort of tied to approval of politicians. It's just sort of tanking. And so that's a fuck, right? Like, why do they even care? Why does it matter what they wear when no one is paying attention? That's a really interesting point. I've never heard someone make that. But I think Donald Trump is the least popular. I think Donald Trump is a sort of exception to that, where
01:02:58
Speaker
He's definitely not the worst dressed politician, but he has more supportive readings of all time. Yeah, yeah. But it's worse depending on who you ask, I guess. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. To be the richest, to be a rich person, and to be the most powerful person, and to look like that is just very sad.
01:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, but to get to his credit and frankly, and in full disclosure, I defer this thing from a Trump supporter, but I do. Yeah. I don't think you have to make that disclosure on this shit. He's about the, you know, he has good suits. He has nice suits. He wears decently nice ties, wears real shoes.
01:03:44
Speaker
But it's like, that's the bar, right? Yeah. The insanely rich person who is also the president wears decent shoes. Yeah. That's where we're at. Um, that's where we're at. But, but you know, there's, there's like, uh, there's some other notable honorable mentions. I think Trump is not in my top five to be clear. I think if I had to go to top five, I would say,
01:04:10
Speaker
Number one, Robert Mueller. He always wears these really nice Oxford button down collar shirts with kind of, you know, an Oxford clock button down. It's just sort of like the collar is just sort of its own thing. It's like flowing down your neck. It just looks great. Dude is killer.
01:04:30
Speaker
like I'm not a not a stan of any fucking person related to the government but like every time I've seen a picture of Robert Mohr I'm like that's a well-fitting jacket like that's a good collar roll that's a nice tie knot yeah like dude dude kills it
01:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think, and yeah, this is absolutely independent of the politicians. Yeah, totally. I would also throw Chuck Schumer, like I said, back in that list, he wears nice shoes. Wears always Hermes ties. Pretty nice. Right. Senator John Kennedy, who politically, I abhor, but he- Oh, he's from Louisiana, right?
01:05:09
Speaker
It's from Louisiana. I think he's a nice dancer. Yeah, he introduced himself to my sister. Interesting. Yes. Yeah, he's got that classics. Like, he has the classic like Southern Eye being looked down. And I know he's like 1000 fucking years old. But like dude still, yeah, sadly, I have to admit that that guy has style. Yeah.
01:05:31
Speaker
I would also, do you know Rosa Deloro? She's like a house member. Not off the top of my head. If you ever get a chance, just give it a Google search. You'll see what I mean. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't know the name. She just gives like Italian auntie vibes. Well, she has blue hair in this picture. She has blue hair in this picture. She has purple hair in this picture.
01:05:54
Speaker
Like you could see her in like Milan fashion. She's for Connecticut. You know, I'm throwing Bill Cassidy in there. He started the seersucker days in the Capitol. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm throwing him in there. He's I think it's from Louisiana too. So so Louisiana is doing well. Yeah. John Federman.
01:06:12
Speaker
Gotta shout John Fetterman out for the Carhartt hoodies. All right, all right. Dude, I'm into it. That dude seems cool. Honestly, this is what I mean. It's about subversion. You know, it's not always about- Yeah, like I love his fucking gym shorts and hoodie in five degree weather because that's a Northeastern and a made Atlantic thing. That is like commitment to the shit.
01:06:37
Speaker
That's right. And he's a Democrat who looks like a blue collar worker. I mean, how more subversive did you get? Yeah, for sure. Also, he's like nine feet tall. So, you know, kind of looks like a pro wrestler in some ways, like I'm into that.
01:06:53
Speaker
And there are no tall Democrats. None. No, no. Notoriously short party. Yeah. Worst list. I'm just going to run through it really quick. No explanation. Yes. Kirsten Sinema. Kirsten Sinema. Jim Jordan. Ron DeSantis. Jordan Peterson. I know he's not a politician. Yeah. He looks like the fucking Joker in like a shitty, like wannabe Batman movie. Have you seen his Twitter suit?
01:07:20
Speaker
Uh, I have, I have. And yeah, I wanted to burn out my eyeballs when I saw that photo. I'm looking it up. Yes. Yeah. Short, like dude, just looks like it's the first, it's the first search result. Jordan Peterson, Twitter suit. Yeah. He also has this like double breasted, like spool color blocked with, you know, each side of the jacket is a different color. It's, I mean, just, just give a quick Google search.
01:07:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, I see it, the Heaven and Hell suit. His suits, I don't know if this is ubiquitous, so bear with me, but there's a costume suit company that exists that makes all these fucking garish suits that basically look like Jim Carrey and the Riddler, but they sell them at Macy's and shit.
01:08:11
Speaker
And every single time I see a picture of that dude, I just imagine that he went and paid like $99 or whatever these terrible suit retail for. And I'm like, dude, you spent like 15 times the amount of money on that to look just as fucking. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a wild one, man. Well, he got owned by Slabo Zizek, who only wears T-shirts. So good. Talk about appearances.
01:08:41
Speaker
I can't believe Slavoj Zizek hasn't come up on this show before. Yeah, there's a first time for everything. Who's that? Yeah. Slavoj Zizek is a Marxist philosopher. Oh, yeah, I know. He's Eastern European. Slovenian extraction, I believe. Yeah, he just is great. He just is very funny and also correct, but mostly fun.
Concluding Thoughts and Acknowledgments
01:09:04
Speaker
Man, this was this was quite a fun and romping conversation. Romping.
01:09:10
Speaker
romping. Yeah, I don't know where the fuck I pulled that from. But we always give our guests a chance to shout out whatever they want to. So here's yours. Shout out my mom. Oh, yeah. Shout out Robert Mueller. Nice. Nice. You know what? Shout out Ralph Lauren, because I think, you know, wherever that man is, he's cooking.
01:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, I hope he's living his best life and at what are you wearing in? Is the street style Instagram so we got a we'll tag that when we post
01:09:49
Speaker
It's so that the streets now page so I'll just say this so you can click the streets out page The streets out page username is what people are wearing. So oh, I'm sorry. Yes What I fuck that up so many times trying to search because I never Remember people and I told myself I wasn't gonna do that and I did that anyway
01:10:09
Speaker
Let me say it one more time. So yeah, my username on Instagram is at what people are wearing it. Yes, which I saw you using an abbreviation, which I think is a good idea. But I do think the page is awesome. Yeah, it's I'm not sure actually if I could find the abbreviated
01:10:27
Speaker
the abbreviation handle I would actually I think if you could get it yeah I mean maybe there's something about just like saying what people are wearing in is so clear you know and like I find that telling people it is actually that's good well and it's cool and it's when it's like what people are wearing in Rhode Island what do you know what I mean it's like you're filling in the blank yeah wherever you go
01:10:49
Speaker
It's a great page, give it a follow. Everyone, thank you for listening to another episode of Apocalypse Studs. I'm Matt Smith at Rebels Rokes. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler. If you have questions, comments, concerns, apocalypsestuds at gmail.com or at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram. And once again, thanks for listening. Thanks, guys.