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207 - Push (2009) w/ DeVaughn Taylor
0 Playsin 14 hours
“You already know the ending to this story. You can only draw it so many ways.”
Happy November, dear listeners! We’re kicking off the month of thanks by welcoming back our friend DeVaughn Taylor, returning to the pod to talk about one of his favorite cinematic subgenres - the unconventional superhero film! And, along the way, we discuss our favorite abilities from this movie, various points of comparison, our dream-casting Cassie’s mom, and, as a treat, DeVaughn explains anime to Tucker and Stephen!
The only thoughts in DeVaughn’s head are his own. Don’t believe us? Follow him on the following platforms and see for yourself:
- Check out DeVaughn on the Specter Cinema Club and The Pod & the Pendulum!
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Banter
00:00:22
Speaker
A franchise right alone will make us rich beyond our wildest dream
00:00:31
Speaker
this is the disenfranchise podcast that podcast all about those franchises of one
00:00:40
Speaker
their face after the first film. I am your host, Stephen Voxworthy. Just asking that you please push it! And joining me, as always, rich beyond our wildest dreams. is my co-host, the man who may or may not die in front of an elevator. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker. Hi, Stephen. How's it going? Was that supposed to be Salt-N-Pepa there at the beginning? It was supposed to be, yeah. I'm very bad at most things, so it probably didn't come across. I just wanted to confirm. I didn't say it was bad. You didn't say it was good either. No, I'm pretty neutral on it. I thought it was all right. I just wanted to confirm for anyone who was like, was that what I thought it was? Apparently,
Guest Introduction: Devon Taylor
00:01:18
Speaker
yes. That was the intention behind the choice, which means that our third guest has already figured it out and is on his way uh he is the father of disco we call him daddy disco sometimes from the specter cinema club please welcome back to the podcast mr devon taylor devon how we doing there you go there There it it is. You did the beat already. That was going to be my little intro. Oh, I love it. You did the beat for me. I'm doing fantastic. I can put them together in post if you want. I can put them together. It's not a big deal. Yeah, just drop it right here. Okay. There it is. One minute, 35 seconds. At least I'm not bleeping out. Damn it. Did it to yourself. Oh my. I can't believe I've done this. Did it to yourself. I did it. I figured since I was already at a point where I was going to have to edit something, I might as well drop one just for funsies. I mean, you may as well, since you're already here. I'm already here. So what am I going to do?
Discussion on 'Push' and Alternative Superheroes
00:02:23
Speaker
And this is an episode like two years in the making, because once upon a time, Devon, you were like, hey, I really want to cover this movie. And I was like, you're on the schedule. And then I went to the hospital and like cleared our guest deck. We brought it up the last time you were here when we talked about Hancock. It's one of your favorite subgenres of film. Devon, what movie are we talking about today? We are talking about 2009's Push, not to be confused with on Wikipedia. 2009 film directed by Lee Daniels, previously titled Push, which was apparently the name of Precious before Precious was the novel by Sapphire right this movie not based on the novel push by Sapphire no no not not at all and yeah like because yeah this is uh like I had two films on my brain when I learned of your podcast disenfranchised uh and this was one of them uh and the other one, I'm pretty sure is still yet to be covered, Jumper. So when that is covered, I reserve my spot for that. I am putting you on the list now. It's not scheduled, but when it is, it's going to be you. These were my two movies that I was like, if I get to go on Disenfranchised, I want to either talk Push or Jumper. So Jumper, that's going to come later. But I am very happy to be talking this movie today. First of all, if, I mean, it was a foregone conclusion. It took us longer than we expected it to, and that's on me. But no, it was always going to happen. And now it's happened twice. Hell yeah. I think we've actually got a couple more scheduled episodes with you on the books so alternative superheroes that's my corner over here it is i think we have you down for a traditional superhero as well but we can we can discuss that off yes um but yes so you're absolutely uh when when we step back from that ledge, my friend, we will absolutely give you a call.
Dakota Fanning and the Cast of 'Push'
00:04:27
Speaker
But yes, we are covering the 2009, 2009, 2009, 2009, good Lord, it's early, film Push, directed by Paul McGeegan, written by Dave Borla, and starring Chris Evans, Dakota Fanning, Camilla Bell, Jimon Honsu, Joel Gretsch, Ming-Na Wen, Cliff Curtis, Nate Mooney, Corey Stoll, Scott, Michael Campbell, Neil Jackson, Maggie Siff, many, many, many others. What a cast. What a picture. Gentlemen, we did it. We're here. We're talking push. We did it, you guys. We did it. We're all here. The pushing is happening at long last. We're going to talk about it. That's rad. Yeah, what a cast in general. It is such a very fascinating ensemble, and especially at the time it came out, this was a lot of people kind of on their bubble of bursting out. Funny enough, I think Dakota Fanning is the biggest star at the time of this movie. She has been the longest working actress up to this point in the movie, which is super crazy because Dakota Fanning, I learned not too long ago dakota fanning is only two months older than me and just because of like how long she's been in the industry i was always convinced that she was like much older than me for some reason and i was like no when i was a kid she was also a kid still making these movies uh so kind of crazy that she's only 30 and she has had such a storied history in the industry. And again, like her at the time of only being like 12 or 13, being the biggest star of this movie is kind of hilarious. It is absolutely wild. I remember when this came out, I saw the trailers for it and I was like, okay, it's Johnny Storm and Dakota Fanning. Like I didn't really even register who Chris Evans was at that point. It was just Johnny Storm and Dakota Fanning. Like Dakota Fanning was the name I knew. I don't think I knew Jaiman Honsu was in the movie, but I did, of course, know him from Gladiator and several other films as well. If I may say about Chris Evans movie and this may can this will definitely contain spoilers for uh deadpool and wolverine um i would have taken this dude over johnny storm honestly just for the deeper reference like how rad would that have been it's kind of a shame disney didn't own the rights to this otherwise it probably would have been that would be that would be hilarious like it'd be happening and so many people in the audience be like wait what is he doing with his hands right now yeah exactly because this is a movie that almost fully does not exist like this movie i remember the trailer for it and i i mean i know it's a thing that happened but you if if i think we like go out on the street and pull like 20 people maybe two of them will know that this movie was a thing. It's one of those movies that I was like trying to remember the first time I saw this and I don't know like Push has just kind of always been there in my life. I don't know when it was put in front of my eyes but I just have always known known it. So I'm like, I don't know if I actually saw this in theaters or not. But yeah, I think you're right to assess. Most people do not know about this movie. Yeah, it's definitely a forgotten relic. I watched it for the first time this morning in preparation for this podcast. Wait, this was your first time? This is my first time. This movie pushed my push virginity. Just like pushed it right away. In 2024. First time pushing. I love this. In the year of our Lord. Right. 2024. It's not my first time seeing it if I may explore my past with
Impact of Viewing Experiences
00:08:21
Speaker
this film. By all means, explore away. This is my second time. Second time seeing this film. Like Steven and most people, I had no idea what the fuck this was. To the point to where when he kept saying, oh, Devon's going to come on, we're going to talk about Push. I'm like, what the fuck is a motherfucking Push? What is this? And then when I looked it up, I was like, oh, that movie see that movie uh i used to i used to date this girl who was really into this movie probably around 2016 or so she we watched it together and boy watching it this you still have her number you want to send that to me i can text her if you'd like like no she married married though, dude. She married. She married. Now, not then, hopefully. Obviously. Anyway, watching it this time made me realize how much experiencing art with someone who's very enthusiastic about it makes the experience better. Because I had a good time with this movie the first time I saw it. And this time, whatever. It was just kind of meh. And so it kind of made me think about, wow, you know, when you like somebody and they like something, it helps you like it too sometimes. I hope I am somewhere out there. Somebody is, oh yeah, I dated this one guy that was really into push. I hope I'm that somebody for love that oh that's so funny devon i'm positive you are i i have to imagine you are that person oh man that's so funny i love the way you put that um yeah i you know in this this movie again it like kind of it sits in this alternate universe and and already what how i had mentioned Jumper, I was looking up clips for this on YouTube because I was trying to post something on Twitter.
The Niche of Alternative Superhero Films
00:10:11
Speaker
And in the comments section, there were other people that go, yeah, I put this in the same film universe as Jumper. And I'm like, oh, well, apparently. So there is something to be said about these late 2000s early 2010s again like kind of they're they're super ability movies but they're not superheroes quote unquote you know like nobody's wearing a costume boys fighting crimes in this um and so i've always kind of gravitated to those and i feel like we don't get as many of those anymore just now because every superhero movie needs to be connected to a comic in some way or have the identifying IP. So like we really don't get these movies anymore. And it's disappointing. I do have a few scripts that I'm working on right now. So I'm hoping to bring back the alternative superhero genre, specifically of the late 2000s, early 2010s vibe. So, yeah, because we just don't really get these type of movies anymore. No.
Challenges for Original Superhero Films
00:11:14
Speaker
Well, I think I think Hollywood has resigned itself to established IP because, like you said, there was a time there when superhero movies were really hitting their strides in 2008, 2008, like 2008 and 2014 in between those years, basically where it was hitting its stride. And the, the film companies thought, Oh, well we can do that. We'll just make up our own. But then they're like, Oh, the IP. Oh, that doesn't work. That actually doesn't work. We, we need an established IP and they tried it for a while. We got Hancock. We got Push. We got Jumper. There you go. I'm sure there's a few others. We also got Heroes. Now, Devon, what are your thoughts and feelings on the television show, NBC television show Heroes? Because I was an avid fan. So I actually never watched Heroes. I know. Well, I never. I know a lot about the lore i've watched uh some like youtube recap videos and things like that so like i know the lore and everything and uh i found it funny that this movie even has a line in it where he's like uh the the dad's like help the girl with the blue flower you can save us all and i was like wow they really ripped that straight from heroes. I was getting so many Heroes vibes from this movie. Like, I'm sitting there going, this could be set in the same world as Heroes. The rules are a little more defined. It's surprisingly more convoluted. Like, I didn't think that was possible. You know, and I think that's the reason. I think the reason I never started Heroes is because I know it had, it's kind of, it was a writer strike show. So like that first season is perfect television, but outside of that, I would say first season and a half and then they did like a, and it all falls apart. And then they did like a re-imagining not too, or not re-imagining, but like a long set reboot, like not too long ago as well. So I think that completely. Yeah. So I think that's the only reason I've never given it a try because I know it didn't get like its full complete treatment and everything. So yeah. So I, I never dove in, but I, but I know the vibes and again, like, I think that's something that interests me, um, in a superhero movie or like, you know, super ability movies, you you know, know not not like like because in my mind like i i don't know if you guys already covered chronicle on here as well but chronicle is uh also again my shit 100 i like that one i love that movie so much and that one has like multiple misused sequel scripts and stuff so that would be a fun episode as well um but schedule steven i'll throw i'm throwing devon on the list put put it on devon's episodes that these ones um but that there's something that's always interesting me about like the idea of like when you have super abilities in a movie and your first instinct isn't to oh i should probably go help people and fight crime because yes we want to say that that's going to be our first thought but it's not it's like if we have super abilities we're going to do like how nick does in this and he's going to try to you know cheat at craps like you know like that's what people are going to do with super abilities not just instantly go well i better put on a costume and start helping
Realistic Use of Superpowers
00:14:25
Speaker
people. Like that's not that realistic, you know? No, I don't think that there's really anything wrong with that in that context, because I think the first thing that I would think if I got some really rad superpowers, I would be like, I really need to help people, but I need to have the time to commit to that. So I need to rob a fucking bank. Okay. I was about to say you're a much better person than me, but that, that makes sense. You have to have funding. It's like, you've read Spider-Man. You see how this motherfucker struggles. Like I'm going to get some funding and it may be cheating at gambling. It may be, you know, finding some, um, harmless way to give myself a whole bunch of money, like robbing a bank, because, you know, they're all insured, like all the bank robbers say when they convince themselves to do it. Thickenless crime, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, get that taken care of first and then, you know, build a cool costume and then go do the thing. I mean, except in this movie, they don't even have the cool costumes, though. No. I would at least want an outfit, like a uniform, even if it was just like the same pair of pants and jacket every time I was out, just so people can recognize me, you know? That's what the costume's for, is for recognition, so you know you're around. That's why I wear a silly mustache in the summer is so i'm very recognizable around the campground so you know i'm there everyone recognizes um uh nick push in this movie by his jeans and his uh converse sneakers like of course we we that's nick push right there also the fact that he's one white man in hong kong that helps too it is it amazes me that this movie is set in hong kong and yet all of our protagonists are somehow white people um with with a couple of exceptions but all of our primary uh protagonists are white people like we just find all the white people in in hong kong and make them the stars of our movie i mean and shot shot on on location too. Like they are in Hong Kong doing this. Yeah. You know, there's some sort of, yeah. And I don't, I guess the, I guess it's like a way to kind of fill out the world of this to like make it feel more lived in because I think it's easy to like watch certain things and be like, Oh, this is contained to America or this is contained to this area. So I don't know. I think it might have been just a shortcut to be like, no, see, like there's psychics all over the world. Like, you know, this is a thing, you know, again, like it's their shortcut to the world building. Because again, like this movie is like, you know, very much predicated on your guys's intro intro like they were playing in sequels and oh you know like you could tell with the world building they thought they were going to get more so like more absolutely yeah so so so i i'd say that the setting uh aids in that to where they are trying to build this foundation out for this ongoing you know story in this you know like ever expanding world they they were very much trying yeah very very much so i mean the end kind of gives us this notion that like neck okay this was the initial heist this is like the first act and because it literally ends with them just getting the macguffin that they're going to use later on and like plan the next heist and so we're like wait we just this was all this was all build
Unresolved Franchise Potential of 'Push'
00:17:51
Speaker
up like literally that was my like last note on this because again I've seen this movie so many times and then like I guess I've never like looked at it more critically and I got to the end of this movie and I go oh wow so nothing nothing was was actually actually accomplished in this movie. Like it was all building towards the sequel that they never got. Like literally nothing, like they accomplished nothing in this movie. Right. And in that way, it presages so many other failed franchise starters. And they're like, oh, we'll get to that in the sequel. Oh, that really cool thing you actually want to see. We'll do that in the sequel. Instead of pouring every cool idea you have into the first movie and making it as good as possible, you're just like holding off and saving stuff for the next movie, but you're not guaranteed that next movie. That next movie may never come. Like the sequel to Push. And I kind of wonder if they would have called it Push 2 or like used like another like uh like push to shadow or move push it to the limit that's what it should have been that's what it should have been i mean i i'd assume they might have maybe went with um one of the other abilities right so like the next one could the next one could have been watch move yeah scream shadow oh they could get rid of that power and i'd be all right the way it looked maybe it's just the guy who does it it's the guy who does it he um he's really annoying really so are either of you guys anime fans uh because i think that's another scratch that this movie uh this movie itches or another itch that this movie scratches for me because I love the power system of this
Anime Influence on 'Push'
00:19:30
Speaker
all. I think they set it up very nicely. I like that the exposition is just over the opening credits that are just like, here, let's get it out of the way. Let's just do this real quick. We're just going to list like five of these, like 10 of these abilities and then we'll show you what they are later. Yeah. So I really like the power system of these various psionic abilities in this movie. I don't dislike any genre of film as a rule, but anime tends to be one that I like a lot less than other genres. And so I think some of that aesthetic is lost on me, specifically with those screamy guys. I'm like, oh yeah, that's way too anime for me. I'm out. And I like the way that they look. I love the thing their eyes did. I thought that looked really fun and really cool. But the power set seemed really, I don't know, did not seem as well defined. It seemed a little more chaotic than some of the others. Cause it only affected the people they wanted it to affect, even though they're literally making a sound, but their friends are okay. The friends are like, this is fine. Well, I think that, I think the screamers are immune to the scream themselves. I'd assume, but it is a weird, it's an odd thing and and again because like so most animes like especially like shows as well it's like they either start with like an interesting story and then or and then they'll be like okay and then we expand the power system over time uh but most series they hook you in with that that is like the thing to like kind of draw people in with an anime. And then they're like, oh, yeah. And then we'll get deeper into the story a little bit later. Like really like Hunter x Hunter is the only like exception to that where they literally don't bring in the power system until like 60 episodes in. It's kind of odd. But like most other shows, they're just like, hey, look, these are these abilities and what can do what they can do. And then like, where can we find the story within that? So it's like this movie does that a lot where it's like we get like so many, again, like variations on the different abilities and things and people in this world. But it's like, I don't know jack shit about the division really or what they're trying to do I don't you know like we're jumping in when there's already been history amongst certain characters and everything like right like you know like like you know like obviously we see like this like cold open with like Nick's dad being killed by the division but like then we find out later like oh he's had other run-ins with the division so it's like wait a sec so this story's already in progress or something so it's like this movie uh definitely predicates heavily on being like hey uh this world of various psychic abilities what can we do with that and and again like i think that is just like has what has always kind of kept me on the hook is me trying to think of like, well, what are, what are some other psychic abilities in this world that could like be a thing? And like, you know, how do certain people, you know, so this movie very much is, you know, hinging itself, its success on like, if people find these abilities and this power system interesting or not. I think that it's interesting, but I think that the one thing that does work about this is that all of the powers are, they're kind of too complicated to the point to where if you think about them too much, it
Criticism and Fast Pacing of 'Push'
00:23:01
Speaker
all falls apart. But the way this movie is paced, you don't really have time to think about it too much. No
00:23:08
Speaker
and i think that works in the advantage of this film because there are some really fun moments that come out of that nonsensical power system
00:23:20
Speaker
really cool. As soon as you're like, but wait a minute, they move on to something else and you're distracted. And it's, it's the thing I like about certain kinds of world building where they kind of just, they, they give time. you like a brief, like, Hey, this is a thing that exists in this world and they don't explain it too deep. And then they just kind of throw it at you. And then you kind of have to acclimate. Oh, I guess in this world, people scream until other shit blows up. I guess that's just the thing that happens in this world. I guess everybody that can see the future is a really good artist. Like that one dude in heroes, like everyone draws what they see. Like it's, it's that kind of world building that I think really kept me engaged. It is one of my people at long time listeners know that I'm a sucker for good world building. And I think that's one of the things this movie does best is building out its world. The execution isn't always enough, but I like the, I like the description. I like the, the groundwork that it does. And ultimately I like, I love that we get one of each. We get to see what every one of those little things that she mentions at the beginning does at some point in the movie. Like, the movie's just ticking off those little boxes as we go. As to the Division, I don't know. You see one shadowy government organization, you've seen them all, really. And literally just called the Division. Like, we kind of come up with, like, a cool thing, like, in Jumper. Their thing is called the Paladins. Ooh, what's that mean? That's interesting. You know, but the division, like, come on. Like they could have given us a little something something there. They could have even been like division and then a number. Right. Like that would even be, oh, it's straight up division six. They're going to fuck fuck us us up. up yeah yeah that would a number does go a long way absolutely better than just division correct yeah and it's i was at the the the one from the mummy the prodigium like it's just we're just gonna come up with just some really obscure word that hasn't been used yet and assign it to our shadowy organization. Just call them the stupid, but I love it though. I know. Same. Just call them the defenestrators and they just go throwing people out of windows. It's their main superpowers to throw people through windows. I mean, we, we almost get it. We almost get Chris Evans just walking off the side of a building in this movie. That almost happens. Damn. I know. We get that close. So close. And yet so far. Damn. Yeah, we have, we've talked a lot about this movie, but we've not really talked about this movie. And I think it's time, 25 minutes into the episode, I think it's time for us to dig into the plot of this film. And we don't have a lot of time, so what the hell? Let's just do it in 60 seconds. For those who are just tuning into our push episode, first of all, why? But second of all, thank you. Welcome. It's for Devon. We know. Don't you know that you just accidentally drop into a podcast episode 25 minutes in sometimes? Don't you hate that happens i you know what there's just so much at the beginning that so much chuffa you have to get through i just start 25 minutes in right and usually it's a 30 minute podcast 25 minutes at that point everyone's kind of hit its stride like we we know where we're going like the rhythms there yeah it's established at that point so it's usually a good time Yeah, yeah. You're in here first. 25 minutes is the perfect time to hop in on a podcast. There it is. Especially this podcast. Because that's when we're doing the plot. In 60 seconds. This is the part of the show where we recount the plot of the film we're watching and talking about in 60 seconds or less. Normally that role falls to one of the hosts, but our guest has graciously offered to cover the plot of this film in 60 seconds or less. Tucker has a minute on the clock. He will give you the 30 and 10 second warnings, Devon, and the time will start whenever you do. All right, all right, because Garrett usually handles this on our show. I usually don't get to do it myself. So we'll see how I fare
Plot Summary and Psychic Abilities in 'Push'
00:27:31
Speaker
here. You did really well on Hancock, as I recall. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Here we go. So little kid Nick Push, he sees his dad murdered by the division. We get introduced. There's bad people searching for these people with abilities. What kind of abilities? They are various psychic abilities as a ominous little girl will tell us off screen. Listing a bunch of them off and we will kind of see them later in the movie used in various ways. The Division. They want these people with powers but they also want to kill them. It's uncertain what they really want. And Nick has been trying to avoid this entire life, but catches back up with him as he goes on this journey and heist to reunite with his ex-girlfriend, to figure out the murders of his dad, to do all these other things, but actually do none of them. And yeah, they have a good time doing it. We're pushing real good. I think that's about it, honestly. We had a good time doing it. That's my favorite. The real push was the friends we made along the way. And they did. This movie is about friendship also. Found family friendship in this, for real. And karate. No, psychic powers is what I meant. Friendship and psychic powers. Right. Speaking of friendship and karate, the guy who plays the cloaking guy, the guy that cloaks them, he's a McPoyle. He's a McPoyle. Oh, as soon as I saw him, I'm like, oh, you're the non-Jimmy Simpson McPoyle. Yes. Literally. Like, there's Jimmy Simpson, and then there's you. Nate Mooney is the actor's name, Leslie. They brought Sean Whalen in these last couple seasons, too. I was about to... Like a cousin. This dude was giving such strong Sean Whalen Whalen vibes. vibes. I Like, I love love Sean Sean Whalen. Whalen. Sean Whalen's one He's one of of my my favorite, favorite snap like, snap your your fingers fingers and and point point guys. guys. Friend Friend of of the the show, show, Sean Sean Whalen. Or I should say friend of Tucker, Sean Whalen. Pinky was given big Sean Whalen vibes. Absolutely. They could definitely be in the same family. Yes. I would believe that they were both McPoyles. Also McPoyles, director Guillermo del Toro. That's one of my favorite little fun facts. That's true. He's Pappy. Pappy McPoyle. Every one of the McPoyles sprang from his loins fully formed. Lest we forget. And of course that came to be because Charlie Day got cast in Crimson, not Crimson Peak, Pacific Rim. One of those Hiramu del Toro movies. He's made a lot of movies. He's not made even more, but he's made a lot. That is so true. Oh, GDP, we love you. Oh, we do. Yeah, and again, this cast is, and again, like kind of the way that everything is spread out. So what, what are your guys's favorite of the ability people here? We got, we got watchers, we got pushers, we got bleeders, we got wipers, we got sniffs, unfortunately named like, that's not great. Sniffs or sniffers, yeah. We have stitches. I thought that was a very interesting one, this as well. That one guy that was the sniffer for the division, he looks so much like a Skarsgård, but he's not. No. Oh, I always call Corey Stoll, we have have mark strong at home yes like that's cory stole for me unfortunately like he is very much the walmart brand of of mark strong here's the thing though i think cory stole is a better actor than mark really i do oh i'm a court stole stan maybe it's maybe it's just because i saw him in the first season of House of Cards and was like, that's my guy. But no, I like Corey Stoll quite a bit. I get where you're coming from, but yeah. Steven, you had told me you particularly enjoyed his performance in Quantumania, I believe. That is not something I said. I don't think I enjoyed anyone's performance in Quantumania. You have to let go in that movie. You just have to let go and enjoy the ride. Because honestly, it's the best Star Wars movie I've seen since the original trilogy. And that is sacrilege, sir. And that is blasphemy, heresy, and sacrilege all rolled into one just smoking gun. That's okay, because I don't really care about the Star War that much. I don't have much invested in it. It shows. But no. He shouldn't even be in Quantumania. What the fuck is going on in that movie is a mess from top to bottom. Gotta let go. Just let go. You'll feel yourself floating and enjoying Quantumania. But you know what Corey Stoll is good in is the original Ant-Man film. He's very good in that. He's pretty good. Yeah. I don't know. I like Corey Stoll. What can I say? He's a rad dude. When he shows up and shit, I'm like, all right, Corey Stoll, right on. That's me with Cliff Curtis in this as well. Cliff Curtis is also a, like, when I see him pop up and stuff, I'm like, ooh. And we did a Patreon episode talking about Dr. Sleep. And he's in Dr. Sleep. And Dr. Sleep has people with these, you know, they call it the shine in that or whatever. But, you know, it's got push abilities and i was like wait a sec i was like is this the character is he actually is this a prequel for his character and push maybe first of all named hook waters i was gonna say his name is wow what a name and if i'm gonna be really honest that might be my favorite of the ability in this. Just the ability to like make anyone see whatever you want them to see. Like he's handing people just random slips of paper and they're seeing him as money. Yeah. Zoom in on his wallet where he just has pieces of paper that say 500 on it. I was like, that's pretty fun. That's amazing. Like that, that is, that is, that is a primo power. I like that one quite a bit. Yes. But so when they take it back to the register and then someone else opens the register, does it still look like that money? See, I've taken one step and I've already destroyed the whole thing. It doesn't last. It doesn't last. So how does he keep doing it then? He has to get out of there before they notice. I mean, yeah, he's a criminal on the run. Like that's how he gets away with it. And he can also make himself look like someone else for a brief period of time as well. So that's that's another thing. Like, I feel like all these powers are too OP. Like the world would have collapsed in on itself at like two minutes of everybody having all those OP powers. We'd all be fucking dead. I know because it's it's interesting because it's like we see a good amount of people with abilities in this movie and they mention that it's like a worldwide thing. And like at one point he's like, I got 20 of the best washers in the world right now. So it's like, okay, so what is the percentage of people that have these abilities in this world? Like in the opening crawl, she like literally just says, yeah, some people are special and just leaves it at that um an undetermined amount of people are special just leaves it at that um but then we see in this movie like okay the division has a good amount of agents with powers so it's like you know yeah what is the percentage of people with these abilities um undetermined right i think um my favorite is the ill-named sniffs, the sniffers. I think that's a very interesting ability, like how they can kind of, you know, things that you have touched and come in contact with, and they kind of like get this like brief like flashback. They're kind of like reverse psychics in a way yeah but like tactilely um this uh this uh this movie uh and again corner of alternative superhero genres um i don't know if you guys um ever read the charlie bone books as a as a kid um charlie bone was like the like rip off of uh like it was like very much in response to harry potter it's like a it's an academy of people with abilities that like descended from this medieval knight or something um and there's a there's a character in that in that series uh that can like do what they do with like but it's like specifically with clothing items. But these sniffs, they can do it with like any item. So I think, I think that's a really, a really fun ability in this. So I'd say that's probably my favorite of, of the group here. Tucker, you got a favorite? I don't know. Like I said, for me, as much as I did enjoy some things in this movie, like it was, there were some times where I had to just go with the flow because if I thought about how OP all the powers were, it would just make it all crumble for me. So I don't know, I guess. Because like, I think of it this way, way like like the the watchers are cool yeah but then like so they see a future but they're immediately able to change it in infinite amount of ways so how is that even their vision of the future anyway and i actually like that i like i like the approach of like yeah you can see the future but the future can change with certain like you know like she even says at the very beginning like you know the biggest away is by the smallest of things like i've always found that interesting in like time traveling movies i don't like the future being set in stone um so and i think that lends well to like the the heist in the uh in the third act of like you know and like you know so many times where they're like oh you gotta make decisions but don't think about it you know make decisions that the watchers can't track uh do things that don't make sense or whatever i don't know it's uh it's kind of silly but also like i don't know i dig. I think it's a different take on versus like, how would this movie play out if the future was set in stone and we had watchers that can see the future? And then they're just like, okay, so like, this is what the end of the movie is going to be like. And then you're going to watch the whole movie and then they have to jump through hoops to make the end, you know, like i i like uh the the take on that the future is like not set in stone not a 12 monkeys fan are you uh never seen oh okay oh sorry for ruining 12 monkeys for you then i guess oh maybe i i'll probably i'll probably forget but i can i can watch 12 monkeys and they a series too.
Sequel Potential and Character Development
00:38:28
Speaker
There's a movie in it. I've not seen the series, but the movie rips. Terry Gilliam, Bruce Willis, fuck yes. Bradley Pittinson. David Morse in there as well. Some very talented individuals in that movie. Dude, yeah. But I guess my answer is that I don't really like any of the powers. Because if I think about them too much, they all just crumble apart. And like I was saying about Quantumania, I can... Crumble apart as in the powers don't make sense on how they work? Or on that they're just too much? I I think number one, they're too OP. And I think number two, that the more you think about them critically, the less they make sense. Most of them. I mean, with like, with like Chris Evans, he just like moves stuff. So like, whatever, like I get that. That's the most simple one. I think. Which right. is Which is,is, really funny that the movie's called Push. So you'd assume that Nick Push was a pusher himself, but he's not. He's a mover. I love that you're calling him Nick Push and that's like not even his name. I don't know what his last name is. According to IMDB, it is Gant. Nick Gant is Gant. Nah, it's Push. That's like my new favorite thing is making people's last name just the name of the movie. Robert De Niro's character in The Score is clearly The Score. I will no dissent. John's score. John's score. Yeah, of course. Yeah, but I love that the movie is about the pusher who is his, the gal, Kira, and she's a pusher, as well as Jaiman Honsu's character as well, which is pushing, pushing thoughts into people's minds. I love that just some of the names don't really make much sense because like, like like you the leaders, could, you could name a pusher something different when you're talking about like pushing a suggestion into somebody's mind. Like there's, there's another way you could go about that. Chris Nolan called them inceptors or right. Exactly. Oh, look at that. Push in the, in the Chris Nolan universe. I can get in on that. We're crossing over, boys. Another, I would say, better executed heist movie that came out, honestly, right around this time frame. Yeah, like the next year. Yeah, 2010. So, there you go. Like, there was something in the water around this time. Like, The Bleeders probably is the name that makes the least amount of sense, although we see, like, a glimpse of it when they're running through the fish market and all the fish are like exploding in the tanks you just see these like like almost like fireworks of blood inside the tanks right before they explode it's like bleeder is a that's a cool power but also not very convenient because it also just like makes a mess and causes chaos you know like it's like because we really only get to see one person actually die from getting their ears bled out but like that's because homie was like already like got his ass kicked or whatever like there's like a scene where they are like screaming at nick push for like five minutes straight and he's you know taking it or whatever so it's like okay like it so it really takes a long time for this to work so it's like it's an interesting power but also not very convenient well and then we get we get uh pop father at the end screaming and he just brings down a whole fucking building on top of himself like it so it's oh yeah they are the pop family that's hilarious as in they make people's heads go pop. That's so funny. Did I ever tell you guys the story of the time when I popped my eardrum by blowing my nose? No. Can we take a tangent here and just let me tell you this very personal story about the time I did that? I'm a liver with tinnitus, so I'm here for this. So when my daughter was very young, probably around four or five, it was the morning and I was getting her ready for preschool. And she was up in her little high chair eating her food and stuff. And I had a stuffy nose, much like I do today. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to blow my nose because that's a normal thing people do every day with no expectation of any harm coming to them because of it. So I straight up blew my nose. And all of a sudden, I feel a pop in my head. I lose all control of my body. My equilibrium does not exist. And I crumple to the floor like a sack of potatoes. When I get there, I just barf all over the floor. I can't move. Like, I can move a little bit, but, like, I'm so disoriented because I have no equilibrium, no balance, nothing. And I imagine one of two reactions from your daughter. Either she thinks it is the funniest thing in the world or she is mortified this bitch is laughing her ass off that's what i thought this is like getting drunk in like five seconds like that's what this experience sounds like oh it's it was the worst man and it took me a while to figure out what had happened but i think i popped my eardrum that'd do it and so every time they were doing that in this movie i'm like oh i know how much that sucks i'm sorry chris evans should be vomiting all over himself right now yes just puking and shitting and pissing and like not being able to move yeah i think one thing that keeps because usually when i see a lot of these psychic abilities, they're generally combined into one or two characters. Like telepathy covers like three or four of these different abilities. Telekinesis covers three or four more. And so usually I think it's, we want to divide them up amongst as many characters as possible so we can get a team together, A. But then B, by spreading them out, we have to find new and interesting ways for them to execute those powers and those abilities. So that's why I think they often come across as OP is because we're trying to find ways that maybe they haven't been used in a comic book or... And they all have like a built-in like weakness too. Like the shadows are like, oh, like we work on sniffs, but we don't work on watchers, you know, or like, you know,
00:44:51
Speaker
so like they all kind of have like theyre like kind of ah like little built-in flaws and and i think the the subgenre of the movie It's like what you'd expect, because I think a lot of people might see this and you're thinking like a more like high octane action movie.
Heist Film Elements in 'Push'
00:45:07
Speaker
And this isn't that like, I mean, yes, it does have some action scenes Right. in it that are very fun. um But at the same time, it's not the like kind of, you know, thing you think it is like they use again, like the abilities come into play for this heist, this mind heist that they have in the in the third act. I I went went on ah i went on a a Force 5 podcast and I brought this in for ah for a secret pick on my top five heist movies um because I like that you know they do form this whole thing around like what certain people's abilities can use. so ah ah Even though there are some very fun action scenes, which um is like 85 practical in this movie by the way um there if you um have the dvd or the blu-ray or the 4k which i watched in 4k looks great um and there's a work there's a lot of uh behind the scenes uh footage on the making of this movie and it's super fun like it like like so much of this they did practically and and i i like that with ah with Nick and ah the way that the the movers and the telekinesis. I think it is a ah slight difference because you know telekinesis is overused in movies now, I'd say, because like i'm liter because it's such an easy thing to do, obviously. like You don't really have to put much on it. you know But I like that in this. One, we do have like a visualization of like when they when they use it. um Every ability has its own sound design as well in this movie that I think is really cool. um that you So whether it's like a sound like when they do it or um when they're pushing ideas into people's mind, there's a high pitch ringing. I don't know if you noticed that little cool details like that, but like, I like how the, the movers can like deflect bullets and they kind of like use like mini force fields in addition to like actually just like levitating things. um So, you know, I think they'd come up with some um unique ways to take the stuff that we've seen before and use them in different ways but then also bring stuff in like like i thought the stitch was very interesting she could like heal you but also like distort you to like cause you pain i thought that was like a like i was like oh but that's something i wouldn't have like thought about in this it's like telekinesinesis for your insides. Yeah. Yeah. Dude. Yeah. I like, yeah. The, the, the various ways that they are all supposed to be like, they are all like psionic abilities. Like they all come from the, the, you know, the mind in a different way, I think is really fun. Yeah. And I think we learn in the, we'll probably learn in the sequel that the division is, are the ones that created it. And so now they're the ones that are trying to control it. Like that seems like a very linear kind of thing. Oh no. They said ah directly from Nazis. Oh, that's right. I forgot the casual drop in this, that there was like, it all started with the Nazis experimenting on psychic people for warfare. And it was like, Oh wait, what? ah but like I think we can probably draw a straight line from like the nazi scientists that came to america post-world war ii and to the creation of the division like i think that's a straight line oh yeah for yeah that sounds pretty sure pretty clear but yeah i mean this the director paul mcgeegan uh in terms of action movies had previously directed lucky number 11 in 2006, a movie I saw in
Director's Work and Near-Franchise Films
00:48:28
Speaker
theaters. I just watched that for the first time earlier this year. Yeah, what did you think? Because I was researching for a movie where we were breaking down ah Quentin Tarantino copycat movies. Oh, yeah
00:48:41
Speaker
and and ah my take from that movie is um it is the most egregious offender of thinking that tarantino dialogue is just somebody asking so i saying something other person saying wait say that again and then they say it again question again and then they say it again and it's like no that's not quippy dialogue that's not how you do it that's that's the whole entirety of lucky number slevin oh my goodness i didn't realize it was the same director yeah. yeah and then and you also get the the bruce willis connection in there of course quentin of course being uh or willis being a collaborator of quentin's at least in the 90s so yeah uh and then he would go on to direct future episode of this podcast, Victor Frankenstein. Oh, oh. So this is not our last Paul McGeegan film. British director, also directed, I'm guessing, a British independent film called Gangster No. 1 with patron saint of this podcast, Paul Bettany. I love Paul Bettanyany but yeah he has totally uh been in a lot of almost franchises thank goodness he locked in vision right he also directed go ahead sorry steven no i was gonna say the day he was told his career was over in hollywood he gets the call from joss whedon about hey you want to be the vision so i just you know, know i we we love love paul Paul. shout Shout out out priest priest. it's It's on the list. We haven't covered it yet, but it's on the list. One of these days, we're just going to do a Paul Bettany theme month. Just cram as many Paul Bettany movies into one month as we can. I'm sorry. I was going to say this director also directed Wicker Park with the official disenfranchised Playgirl centerfold Josh Hartnett. Yeah. That's on my list. I haven't seen that movie, but I still want to watch Wicker Park. Shortly after it came out, it's, of course, named after a neighborhood in the city I live, Chicago, Illinois. It certainly is a movie. That's a thing. It happened, and we all let it happen. Oh, what an interesting career this Paul McGeegan has had. Indeed. He's directed a lot of TV. Sherlock, four episodes of Sherlock, an episode of the NBC TV show Smash, an episode of Scandal, Luke Cage, Luke Cage, some three episodes of something called The Family. See, Kevin Feige, Push fan, hiring him for Luke Cage. Noted fan of Push, Kevin Feige. I mean, he does. I want to talk about the Chris Evans superhero arc, which is a thing I always want to talk about when we cover a Chris Evans superhero movie, because I think it is absurd. Devon, you and I were talking about it briefly while we were waiting for Tucker to make coffee before the record. He gets his start in 2001 with Not Another Teen Movie where he plays Jake Weiler, the Freddie Prinze Jr. analog in that film. He does a few other movies and then in 2005 he's cast as Johnny Storm in the Tim Short or Tim Story, Tim Short, Tim Story Fantastic Four films. From there, he does three years after two years after that. He does see our previous episode TMNT where he plays Casey Jones in the animated Ninja Turtles movie. The same year he does that he's in Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer. He does Push two years after that. The Losers the year after that. See our previous episode on The Losers. Same year he does The Losers at Scott Pilgrim versus The World. And then the year after that, 2011, Captain America, The First Avenger. So that's like six superhero movies inside of just like six years, which is insane to me. Or at least comic at least right i didn't really call scott pilgrim superhero but definitely comic book movie yeah and then two years after that he does snow piercer which is also based on uh a graphic novel so i mean yeah so i wonder if this if this got a sequel would they i mean obviously the movie was predicated on him coming back, but then like, would Captain America and the Avengers, would it have derailed said sequel? Or would we have gotten like one of those sequels where we, where we recast Nick push as somebody else? Here's my, here's my thought. If, if we get a sequel to this, we get John Krasinski as Captain America. Like, that's the alternate timeline. I'm so glad I don't live in that timeline. So fucking glad I don't live in that timeline. Barf. Oh, man. That would be crazy. Yeah. Crazy, awful, unwatchable, disgusting. You know, and Chris Evans, like, he's... Don't hold hold back back to to how how you really feel Chris Evans isn't my favorite Chris but he's a I think he's the most consistent Chris he's very kind of I think you've always you know like even across all these various comic book stuff you know you know he's gonna buy in but also still bring like I'm not gonna say in every man because i mean he still looks like chris evans um but but at the same time he does kind of still bring this like kind of consistent relatability and and and that is ever present for captain america as well a very vanilla character but like he still brings enough flavor to it to like you know like you know make them interesting so right um yeah it chris evans and and i i guess he i don't know i guess he's just a big nerd like you know he really likes doing these things and then even the fact that he was willing to do uh you know make do his little cameo for you know deadpool wolverine i mean i guess he's very familiar with that back lot or you know so whatever but um but yeah so it it is interesting seeing like all these like early like almost franchise starters and it's just like all right we're gonna build something around Chris Evans somewhere and then it you know took the MCU to finally that to actually happen but I mean I would have loved to have seen Chris Evans in three push movies you know like in a push trilogy which is clearly what they're like this is act one and then you get act two which is probably them breaking in and ultimately failing and then the third act is when they figured like this whole thing probably could have been a season of television stretch it out develop these characters a little more that's what i think about all the time now like if there was like i mean obviously like you know looking at the you know we'll talk the box office later but like you know this wasn't going to be the draw but like if this was something that people knew about like i think this would make a wonderful leap to to tv um um you know because, you know, you're able to do most of these things like on a decent sized budget, you know, and things like
Appreciation for 'Push's' Lower Stakes
00:55:33
Speaker
that. I think this would very much be sustainable for TV. But like, it really did shock me at the end of this movie where I go, wow, they just did like one thing. Because the whole movie is like, is the girl the MacGuffin is the, the, the, the, the, the drug that's the MacGuffin. But then it's like, well, they're just trying to get one syringe. And we literally saw when they injected Kira, they got a bunch of it. So really it's not like that's the only one or anything. Nope. They're just like, oh, and because at the end they go, well, division will do anything to make sure it doesn't get into anybody's hands. So it's like, that's their leverage for this whole thing is like, they have like, hey, not that like, hey, we got your last vial. It's like, no, we got like, hey, we got it. You know, like, you know, like there's still the division still exists at the end of this movie. The scientists that know how to make the drugs still exist. Like literally everything is open at the end of this movie, except for Kira is going to kill Carver and they have one vial of drug. That's it. That's what they accomplished by the end of this movie. Correct. They obtained one drug. And a team of people who know how to use their abilities for good and or evil or both. Like, I want to see the prequel. I want to see her mom putting all of this together because it's very much kind of like a season three of Heroes kind of thing where you find out that everyone's parents were all like a part of like the original.
00:57:12
Speaker
and kind of had all they all had like their own abilities and were kind of like working machinations behind the scenes knew each other somehow like it has that kind of vibe because everyone's like oh i knew your mom oh your mom told me to be here on this day oh your mom said this would happen and so i'm like i want to see her mom Yeah. like assembling these people and telling them this shit yeah we we only see the back of cassie's mom's head in this movie but that was gonna that would have been the big sequel casting who's who plays cassie's mom uh in this uh i mean I guess the sequel would have come out in like 2011, 2012. I'm going to go with Jennifer Jason Leigh. I think she would have been a great Cassie's mom in the sequel. In the sequel that doesn't exist. I was going to say Michelle Pfeiffer. Or Michelle Pfeiffer of Ant-Man movies. Elizabeth Shue. Bring it back around. It's always the shoe. Always the shoe. Justice for Elizabeth Shue. Absolutely. Dude, yeah. Like, yeah, lots of options for sure. In reality, it probably would have been none of those. But, like, you get – yeah, I want to see that. Like, that's the story I want to see. But again, it's that, it's that franchise starter thing of, Oh, well we got to save it for the sequel. We got to save something for the sequel. No, you fucking don't just make a good movie. And then if we like it, think of another idea. I'll say one thing that I will give this movie in this regard is because again, like now thinking in current 2024 superhero movie fatigued brain part of what has also led to my fatigue is everything is such high stakes everything's the end of the world the universe you know like and then it's like well now none of it really matters like it's all all multiverse multiverse bullshit. It's all, everything is so big. So I do kind of everywhere. So I do kind of like that in this movie that the stakes are like in the dirt. Like, I mean, it's very like all they're trying to do is live mainly in this movie. I guess like that's really the pause. There's like, Hey, we just like want to not die and we need to accomplish certain things to make sure that happens so like i on one hand i kind of like that the stakes are super low but at the same time like again like i got to the end of the movie i was like wow i feel like we like just got going like all right like where to next you know exactly so it's such a bummer that you know they kind of really banked on getting more. And then it's just like, you know, so but again, that's why I always find myself returning to this movie because I'm just like, it's always the man. What if like what like what would it look like? What is the timeline where we have a full push trilogy? Like, what does that look like? I think the world would be a better place. And strangely enough, strangely enough for me, I agree with you, but that's what frustrates me about this movie is that it ultimately does lead to nothing and we're not going to get to see anything. And I really like, this is one of those movies where I really like the intent behind it. I like the ideas. I like the thought of this film. I like the potential of the ideas in this movie, but like Steven said, a couple of minutes ago, make this a mini series, make this a TV show. Like you're cramming too much in there. The editing suffers. The editing really suffers in a few places. The pacing suffers. The character development suffers. Like these are interesting ideas that I am interested in, but the way that this movie pulls it off more often than not, it just doesn't work for me. Yeah. And that's where I ended up landing too. Like there's, there's a lot here and maybe too much here for us to flesh out, like, you know, make a couple of companion comic book series. Like there there's a there's a chance to go like full-on franchise with which they which they did do with the release of this they did release a prequel comic so they again they were thinking you know more than this movie the whole time um and and it's interesting just like i guess also at the because like, even though 2009 is not that long ago, the landscape of this subgenre has changed so much in that time that like, now, we could make a push trilogy straight to streaming for, you know, 10 million for 10 million bucks a piece, versus in 2009, this movie was made for $38 million. Nobody is putting that behind an original idea anymore, unfortunately. But today, I think a trilogy straight to streaming would be in its wheelhouse. So it's very fascinating just at the time that this came out as such a fascinating time for for this uh genre absolutely i think this would be this would be a perfect uh perfect fit for an amazon series a 10 episode season uh at least two or three seasons of that because they've already kind of got their own they've got superhero shit but all their superhero shit on prime is very unique of course course, it's based on established IPs, but I mean, the boys, that's a lot bigger now than it was before the show happened. So the boys, the show kind of... There was two seasons of The Gifted on Fox, and I think that that is also kind of like the kind of level of this movie as well. I's like the gift is it's like it's a it was an X-Men show that was on Fox that nobody knew was an X-Men show because they like didn't really market it as such. And it's like a, you know, like, you know, a serial, a weekly serial kind of show. And it's like not connected to the MCU or whatever. Like, I don't know. There's a little X over the, is the, yeah, yeah. Not on the eye. That's how you, that's the only tie in. That's, that's literally it. We have, we have a character named Esma Frost. So. Esma Frost, yeah. Yeah. So that might be a white queen thing there. But, but yeah. So like, like it like it's very much kind of in that in that wheelhouse for sure um and i i would totally kind of see that um um happening but i guess again just for the time like they they really were trying to to kind of you know make it something And it just kind of, because like, not that the plot doesn't engage me when I'm watching, because I think as far as like the kind of twists and turns that they do, does keep me engaged and everything. And I think it is very, you know, it's fun. It's got its like kind of slick moments and the way that it's like filmed as well um so i mean i'm not gonna say that like the the plot is completely empty um but it just it it is just so obvious at the end of the movie like how much they were you know planning on more yeah i mean it i mean and this is this is early enough superhero like and this we kind of talked about about this timeframe for superheroes when you were on for Hancock as well, but like, this is the year after Iron Man.
'Push' in the Superhero Film Timeline
01:04:30
Speaker
Like this is the one year since like one of two years since 2008, where Marvel didn't have a movie out. Like the MCU just wasn't putting out a movie. But like you get Hancock the year before you get like push Push, you get Jumper, I think the year after, like this is kind of the last gasp for that kind of non-comic book superhero adjacent thing before Marvel kind of just completely overtakes the landscape. And so this is kind of our last chance at maybe starting something fairly original and, and maybe getting it off the ground. But I'm trying to think of one of those like original superhero projects that actually did get the sequel it was hoping for. And I'm kind of drawing a blank right now. Yeah. None, none that I can think of as like the originals, like, I'm not sure, but you know, know like like uh the the closest thing that we have right now happening i will say i am very excited for craven you want to know why because i think the sony venom movies and morbius are like they they they give me the vibe of like 2005 daredevil it exists in that like kind of sphere and. And I'm like, Hey, you know what? I'm, I'm digging this because it's just, it's off doing its own thing, not hurting anybody. Nobody asked for it, but also it's inoffensive as well. Um, you know, I, I think, I think, uh, I'm not going to say I'm a, uh, Morbius defender, but I'll say not as bad as people make it out to be honestly it's not that bad but it's there you know and i feel like that's what i'm gonna feel about craven i haven't seen venom 3 yet but i i like the venom movies for just they're there you know like you know they are just there and i sure are i'm very intrigued to see about Craven. They could put anything out with Tom Hardy as those two characters. And I'd watch it because I love his chemistry with himself. And those films, I really do. I'm going to call it right now, future episode of this podcast, Craven. Yeah. And how many how many guests can we have per episode? I mean, we've only done one so far, but I'm not beyond putting more than one guest per episode. Devon, there was something that you just mentioned that is a future episode of this podcast. What was it, Stephen? Daredevil? 2003 Daredevil? Yes. Director's cut, hopefully. Director's cut, baby. Absolutely director's cut. Come on, we have standards here on this podcast. I feel like we should have multiple guests on that episode. Okay. Oh, yeah. We've got, feels like a seminal episode for this podcast. One guest is in the room with us now. Of course, we do have the Daredevil TV show dropping next year. So I will say it now. That's the one that we were talking about earlier that we couldn't remember. Oh, I remember. I was just going to talk about it off mic. But yeah, I actually had just reviewed like next year's schedule not too long ago because I'm starting to slot things in for next year already because I am a madman with scheduling. And of course I had you down on the short list for that episode. Tucker, if you have another guest for that episode, by all means, let's, the more the merrier, let's just turn this thing into like a pod in the pendulum during the Saw era, like free for all. I'm sure people understand that reference. Devon got it. Well, that's enough. That's all we need, honestly. Because Devon was there for like the whole thing. So I just popped in on one episode and it was madness. But yeah, it was a good time. I will bet. Yeah. If you've listened to the Saw 6 episode of Pod and the Pendulum that I was on, you didn't hear the whole episode. I'll just say that, and we'll leave it there. That's a joke for me and Devon. Sawmania. It was a time. Whoa. That was the Sautumnal spirit was in the air there. What else do we have to say about Push? I i know devon you probably got some more thoughts what what else you got you know uh again i i kind of just um i like the mixture of things that we get in this um how we were kind of talking about like this isn't just like straight up action like i like that we do get like a variation of action scenes like we get like to see uh the various abilities like put to use we get a couple chase scenes we get some hand-to-hand scenes um again like a lot of this like very uh practically done like so it's like a lot of wire work and stuff and people getting drugged and flung around and stuff like uh the uh the behind the scenes for the um the scene where nick push goes into the restaurant uh where carver and victor and are there and he like has the floating guns and stuff and and victor's throwing them around uh uh victor one of my favorite undescript henchmen like his whole thing in this movie is he wears a suit and has a very serious face he has no personality whatsoever he just grimaces and i love him for some reason like he's like he's so it's so not interesting that i love him right he's so i love that scene you just project everything on him that one scene is really badass though like if that's the only scene we get with him it's a fucking good scene to get like and then the scene where he like takes out like fucking when they're in the third act when he like takes out like all the fucking uh when the yakuza uh screamers come in right uh bleeders come in and he and it's like literally him against like all of them and fucking like Jai Man Honsu has to like just like duck behind a trailer and Victor's just fucking just going crazy. I was like, man, this dude fucking like he's a just a really again like badass, undescript henchman. He is what Chris Evans could have been had he been training all this time instead of running. Like, it's kind of the vibe that I get. It's kind of the villain that's like a souped-up version of the hero. Like, that's what... And we get a few of those. Like, Jai Minhan Tsu is the souped-up version of Camilla Bell. The pop girl is the souped-up version of Cassie. And then, of course, Victor or Vincent, the V-guy, is the soup version of Chris Evans like a Nick push like it all kind of there's the correlation there I'm seeing here uh Neil Jackson who portrays Victor um uh known for uh he is one of the prominent villains in the Blade the series the F uh the Spike TV series. With sticky fingers? With sticky fingers. I liked that show. I really did. I was sad that they canceled it because I thought it was really well done. That's right, Wesley Snipes. There was more than one Blade. Well, no, it's the same Blade. He's playing the same character. It's just a different actor. It is canon. Well, I don't know if it's canon but well now the films are canon in the series well now that the well now that the mcu blade movie isn't happening let's just bring sticky fingers back for yes for the series let's just run it back for the series and when's the last time onyx has dropped an album he's not doing any music like come on get him get him as blade let's do it man oh marvel Marvel, what what are are we we doing, doing here? Like, seriously, what are we doing? Why get Mahershala Ali when you can have sticky fingers? Yes, why get the two-time Academy Award winner? Why do that? Why would you want that? Yeah, but you didn't see his Blade in the TV series. I liked him as Blade. I did. It truly did. I feel uh jiman hansu also is kind of a patron saint of your guys's show oh i love him because it's interesting he's been in a lot of non-franchise stars but he's also in like both dc and marvel he's like because he's just in everything and in the and in the fast and furious movies and furious seven uh you know like fast and furious movies i mean he's uh in a uh zach snyder's rebel moon franchise i mean he's in all the franchise of the quiet place franchise so now he is the franchise guy but before he was like kind of again one of those people that like was it always almost there yeah you know because he uh he had this uh he was in uh constantine as papa midnight see previous episode of our broadcast great episode uh because i love constantine but hey you guys might have to run it back uh because the constantine twos in is floating around it's supposed to happen i mean i i will believe it when I'm seated in the theater. Same as I did for Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, which did happen, but when I'm seated in the theater with a bucket of popcorn in my lap, I will believe it. True that, true that. But German Honsu, he just fucking rules. I think he is. Stargate, Deep Rising, almost previous episode of this podcast, Gladiator. We came out that close and then Ridley decided to roll up his sleeves. What else we got? God, he's been in somewhat Constantine Beauty Shop, future episode of this podcast, Beauty Shop. Aragon. The Legend of Tarzan. The 2016 one with Skarsgård. Absolutely. Seventh Son. Yeah. Was it Alexander? King Arthur. It's with Alexander. And funny enough, Legend of Tarzan, I compare it. It's literally Daredevil in the jungle with a ripped Alexander Skarsgård. They literally make tarzan into daredevil in that movie it's kind of crazy oh also uh the uh 2019 charlie's angels um another jiman hansu film look at that yeah jiman hansu patron disenfranchised uh saint it we're putting him on the mount rushmore right next to paul bettany he up there. Yeah. Oh, no, but we do love Jimon Honsu. And he's really good in this movie. And I want to see him play more villains, like fully formed villains, not like Korath the Pursuer in Guardians of the Galaxy, where he's just kind of like a henchman. Like, I like him kind of being the guy, the mastermind calling the shots. like Like he's very good at that and i want to see him get more he was also in the king's man fuck the king's man from 2021 we're not getting another yeah yo he was in the he was in the blood diamond y'all remember the blood diamond i saw that movie in theaters yeah but it's all about bling bling here it's all about about yeah bling bling. I hope Diamond Hounsou's bank account's looking nice. I can't imagine it wouldn't be. There's been enough stuff that it's at least hit a bit as long as it's getting residual. He was in Aragon also, which was supposed to be a trilogy. Yes, it was. Based on that book series written by that teenager. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and oh, no, Gran Turismo is based on a
Unique Podcast Content and Social Media
01:15:52
Speaker
true story. I was like, that's a video game, right? No, that's not the video game one. It's also a video game. No, it's the video game. Is that movie based on the video game? Yeah. Well, it's based on the unbelievable, inspiring true story of a team of underdogs. I don't think it's based on the video game. No, it is. It's based on a player of the video game becoming a driver. Like, that's the plot of the movie. And it's a real thing that happened. It's a real thing that happened, Steve. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. Probably still not something to discover. So it is both a biopic and a video game film. Yeah. It's at the same time. Directed by Neil Blomkamp. Like you do. Oh, Neil. That's who you assigned to that task. We had such high hopes for you, Neil. What happened? Yeah, well. I mean, I guess Chappie happened. That's true. Well, Fant Forestic happened. That's what happened to him. Although, District 9, future episode of this podcast, we will cover it one day. And he also directed Chronicle. Bringing it back around. I like that movie a lot. Chronicle rules, except because you also mentioned uh a chronicle unfortunately written by a very vile piece of shit but also somebody who wrote a lot of movies that were intended to be franchises so kind of interesting how that person would come up a bunch and we'll'll cover Fan4Stick on the podcast next year as well. It's already on the schedule. Hooray. We're coming up on 10 years since Fan4Stick. That's crazy. It really is. That's wild. It's kind of insane. Yeah. What a great time to be the Disenfranchised podcast. Really? For real. Like, really? We've got some really great stuff on the horizon because Hollywood just keeps putting this shit out and we are just responding to it. So it's it's fun. It's a great time. It's a great time to be us. And yeah, we covered push that's a thing we did it happened pushing it happened at long last two years in the making finally finally brought it home it's one of i can finally tick uh this movie off my podcast bucket list i got to talk about push somewhere for an hour and a half i love it and we'll we'll make sure to get jumper on the schedule just as soon as we can as well. I just wish you would step back from that ledge, my friend. No, I'm going off the edge, off the edge, straight into the UK. Oh, crazy. That's wild. That's a, that's the edge of civilization right there. The UK. Devon, thank you so much for coming back and joining us. We are so glad we were able to get this scheduled as quickly as we were. Tell us about what's going on at Spectre Cinema Club, which you guys have coming up for November. Just anything else you want to plug, man. yes Yes, thank you so much i loved talking about this movie uh you can find me at all the usual places twitter instagram letterboxd at underscore daddy disco um you can uh hear me over on specter cinema club uh november we are covering uh college horror uh so we have a fun slate of on-campus thrillers and one that is also not on campus. So you can check us out over there. And then December, we'll be doing Nick Cage to close out 2024. So we're closing out strong over on Spectre Cinema Club. New episodes every Tuesday. Uh, and then you can, uh, hear me on a pot and pendulum sometimes with Mr. Chewy himself. Uh, and you can hear me, uh, we're doing a VHS beyond, uh, recording tomorrow. So you can hear me over there. Um, but, uh, yeah, thank you so much guys. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming back. And again, we've got, we've got plenty more scheduled for you. Uh hope, enough teasers on this episode that people will keep coming back. But yeah, and that you'll keep coming back, most importantly. It's a series. I got my specific disenfranchised corner. We've got your lane. We've decided. We've locked you in. And we've got a couple of guests that come on kind of whenever we cover a particular topic. So I'm glad that we've carved your niche out for you. That makes me very happy. We are the Disenfranchised Podcast. You can find us on most forms of social media at disenfranchpod. Wherever you get your podcasts, make sure you are finding us. And when you do, leave us a nice five-star rating and review, we will read new reviews on this very podcast and everyone will hear them, especially if those are on Apple podcasts and Spotify. You can drop us a line at disenfranchepod at gmail.com or head on over to our Patreon, patreon.com slash disenfranchepod to join for free, the official conversation of the disenfranchised podcast, or or for five dollars a month you can hear us talk about a wide range of topics including the episode where we rank the five ghostbusters movies and steven loses his fucking mind um for just five dollars i think you're overselling it i not really kind of but not really. But no, go, go check that out. Diss in five chai is our most recent episode. And, and yeah, check, check that out. Please do. Please. And thank you. You can find me, Stephen Foxworthy, your host on various forms of social media at chewy walrus. Some of them I use regularly. Some of them I don't. Figure it out. Our absent friend, Brett Wright, who is awash in Hong Kong, last seen getting into a van with Corey Stoll.
Box Office and Star Ratings Discussion
01:21:55
Speaker
We wish him a speedy return, but you can find him on Instagram occasionally at sus underscore warlock and on Letterboxd at the same handle. Tucker, where can we find you these days? Uh... Steven, we didn't do the box office and we didn't do our star ratings. I just gotta say it. I gotta say it. We did not do box office and I did not get to tell you what my star rating was on this movie and I demand that we rewind and do that. Yeah, we can fix it in the edit. Yeah, sure. I'll totally cut this out and make it right. I'll make you look real good, Steven. You never do. Why start now? It's cold. That's what happens when you let it sit there for an entire hour but it's only been an hour that's enough uh push the movie from 2009 comes out in february on february 6 2009 which is how you know the studios had high hopes for it because february is just when all the great movies come out uh usually great night movie. Hey, girl, you want to go see Push this weekend? Then maybe later we can, never mind. Opening number one, probably would have been the number one date movie of the era. He's Just Not That Into You. Opening at number one to 27.8 million. In second place in its second weekend, Liam Neeson's Taken. Oh. That would be a successful franchise starter. And that was a, yeah, that was definitely a word of mouth one too. So everybody was saying, go see Taken. Nobody was going around saying, go go see see Push push right taken just pushed push right out of the box office um in third place also opening this week um maybe one of my favorite movies of the year coralline yeah and uh which just had a very successful anniversary run uh which is uh super crazy It was... What big movie was it? There was a big movie that it beat out, and it was just like, wow, look how sad that movie is. Was it the Joker movie? I mean, look, Joker hit number one and then plummeted like a stone. Yeah, Coraline. We do stand Coraline. Absolutely. That movie is great. Probably one of mine too. Really do dig that movie. Tucker, Coraline thoughts? It's fine. What? I liked it. It's okay. This guy. In fourth place, we have a sequel that I did not expect that we would get. The sequel somebody was asking for. Probably Steve Martin. The Pink Panther 2. There was a sequel. yeah did two of those we did two right another movie that does not exist oh uh and then in fifth place in its fourth week down from number two the week before paul blart mall cop another one that weirdly got a sequel um people would not have expected it to but they really do kevin james remember when that movie and observant report came out at the in the same year and it was like whoa this is kind of crazy is observant i don't think observant report is out yet because it's not on this or or was it like a they they came out like within a year or two apart it was like kind of and and people kind of didn't see observ and report because they thought it was like another kind of paul blart it's like even though it really was not no not at all very different it's that like deep impact armageddon thing that mega mind despicable me thing like where you get those movies that come out just right next to each other and they have essentially the exact exact same premise, but ants in a bug's life. But that was intentional because Katzenberg was trying to like leech off at Disney. Yeah. In sixth place, the movie we talked about today, push opening at number six, rounding out the rest of the top 10. You've got slumdog millionaire at number seven in its 13th week has grossed about $77 million, followed by an eighth place, Gran Torino, which in just nine weeks has already grossed $120 million. Wow. You can't stop Clint Eastwood. Every time someone mentions that movie, I think of, I don't remember which movie it was, but there was a time on snl where they did a reoccurring sketch where it was like uh screen tests for people who didn't get the role in very famous movies and bill hater was clint eastwood and he had like his pants up to his chest yep and he's just like leaning back and he's like and whenever somebody says grantorino i think of that movie and that's basically him in that movie. Yeah, it is really. And then he sings the theme song at the end. Like he sings the theme for Gran Torino. He's a fantastic singer. Sure. I mean, he painted that wagon. Boy, howdy. He's a real good director too sometimes. In ninth place, we have The Uninvited. What if some people were uninvited? And at the bottom of the top ten, Hotel for Dogs. What if there was a Hotel for Dogs? Oh, The Uninvited is the American adaptation of Tale of Two Sisters. Oh, that's right. That's what that is. That's right. Because those were happening a bunch in the late 2000s as well. The J-horror, K-horror surge. American adaptations. And I bring up number 11 only because I think it might be a movie that you might enjoy. Devon Underworld 3, Rise of the Lycans. Yes. That feels like a very Devon franchise to me. You know, it's, it's so fascinating. Cause I kept, I, I haven't seen all of them. I've, I still haven't seen like the, the last two, but I have seen all of them. How have you not? So I, I, I was, I had a week where I was going to like rewatch them. The one I was like, I start from the beginning and like do them all. But I i've seen underworld one and two quite often and i love uh uh rise of the lichens what a great idea to be like hey let's do the prequel on the other race the the non-vampires in this movie i think that's so fun so i yes do love uh underworld rise of the lichens what are you going to suggest we cover it on pod and pendulum guess is the next question. And how hard do you think you're going to have to fight Mike to get that on? I think, I mean, I think because we haven't done a ton of action horror over there. So I could see him being on board for that. But I have some other franchises that are for my wheel picks. I have a couple more that are a little bit more important, but I do want to do the Underworld franchise over there at some point. Hell yeah. All right. And so Push opens, as we said, at number six on a budget of $38 million. It earns back $31.8 domestic. Not the return you want to kick off a franchise, as we've said many times. International box office gives us another 17.9, which gives us a grand worldwide gross of just short of 50 million, 49.7 million worldwide. Not a huge multiplier. Would have liked to have seen more. The tomatometer score is a 23%,
01:29:49
Speaker
does feel a little rude um the critics consensus the sci-fi thriller push is visually flashy but hyper kinetic convoluted i could i could see because obviously like you know roten tomato's aggregate score so so with the score being that low i don't think people obviously people are not saying it's a two out of ten movie but i can see a lot of people giving this like i could see a lot of people getting giving this like a five out of ten like like almost to afre they're just like oh like it's
01:30:21
Speaker
kind of almost there i could see a lot of people like you know kind of shro a shoulder shrug for a lot of critics i would say so i can understand why the score is that low i feel like there's just enough people that are like uh it's almost there but eh you know so and i think this is a very good time to point out and this is why i don't put a lot of stock in the Tomatometer, is Rotten Tomatoes is a binary. It is either fresh or not. Yeah, exactly. So, like, I don't put a lot of stock in the Tomatometer score. I'm more likely to go for the Metacritic score than I am the Rotten Tomatoes score, but that's me. Speaking of the Metacritic score, a 36 on Metacritic, generally unfavorable reviews from 21. That seems a bit unfair. Also seems a bit unfair. Tucker, you want to take a stab at the Letterboxd ranking for 2009's push. What do you think it is? Give us your spread. I normally do a four-point spread, but I'm going to narrow it down. And'm going to put this in between a, uh, 2.7 and a 3.0. Uh, it's a 2.8. So right on, right on the money. See, see, yeah. Right. Like I was saying, like I could see a lot of people just being like, it's almost there to being like something, um, you know, but, um, yeah. So I think think unfavorable unf but you know it's whatever yeah devon how do you rate uh push out of five stars so i mean if i'm being for real for real this is a 3.5 movie out of five um but again i think i've probably have watched this movie more than Honestly, I don't think anybody has thought about push as much as me. So this is a number one push fan right here. I'd say so. So so so in my heart, this is a four point five out of five for me. Like, I love this movie. I don't know something about it just always sucks me back in and wanting to go into this world again i just find it very fascinating so like it's a 4.5 but it's like you know this is this is more of a you know 3.5 a very shaggy kind of a hot mess of a movie okay that's i i i tend to say that same thing verbatim on most straight ups because a lot of our straight up episodes the movies aren't great but I love them for some reason or another I'll be like this is objectively like a 2.5 but it's a 5 for me so I totally understand that perspective for sure Tucker what are you giving this one out of 5? well Steven I wonder if you'd like to give your rating first so that I can transition smoothly back into my socials and get us back where we were. I thought you were just going to edit the whole thing around, but sure. Why would I do that? Why would our editor edit? Of course. You're right. If I had time and you paid me, I'd probably do that. Stephen, I got kids! You have access to the PayPal account.
Community Engagement and Episode Conclusion
01:33:30
Speaker
You can pull funds if you need to. Okay. We have that on recording. So no legal action can be taken against me. You hear that, HR? Yeah. He said I have all the money. It's all mine. All? No. I said you have access. Okay. It's going to be a three for me. Would probably have been a two, 2.5, but the world building kind of saves it for me a little bit. It's the thing I enjoy most about this movie other than the performances. So, yeah, it kind of just pushes it in the opposite way, as Devon bond was was saying earlier kind of just pushes it slightly over the edge for me for sure now for for me i'd like to start by saying usually when a film has potential but it doesn't live up to it i find that endearing stuff like book of shadows blair witch 2 stuff that. I really love that movie because of just how much potential some of those ideas have, even though the film does not really realize it as well as it should. But this movie kind of, it's the same deal, except it frustrates me instead of endears me to the film. So I think this is it, it, it hurts me in the heart to say it, but I think this is a 2.5 for me. I'm usually not the guy who lands the lowest on something because I tend to be somebody who can find the good things and the fun things and forget about the bad things. But this one for me, it's just, there's too much potential for me that was just wasted for one reason or another.
01:35:10
Speaker
ah just like was very frust very frustrating film for me very frustrating ah but you can find me on instagram and youtube at IceDiedOdyed. That's I-C-E-N-I-N-E, the number zero and the number nine. Also, we got TuckMugs, of course, Tuck underscore mugs. I don't know. I think if you become a devoted fan of TuckMugs, I decided this in my head earlier today, that you are a TuckMugger. And I think that's probably the best way to describe fans of TuckMugs, if those even exist. Devon, are you going to send us a guest mug? What's up with that? Send us a guest mug, dude. Am I going to get guest mugged? What? You're going to tuck mug me? I mean, see, now that you say it that way, it sounds even more perverse. No, are you familiar with Tuck Mugs? No. Well, let me tell you about Tuck Mugs. I have a page on Instagram called Tuck Mugs. Again, that's Tuck underscore Mugs. And it is a page on Instagram where I just post mugs in my collection. And I write a little blurb about maybe where that mug came from or maybe what it means to me some kind of story related to the mug and then I will also inform everyone what is inside of the mug at the time of the photograph and that's pretty much the format and we have guest mugs all the time. Oh, okay. All right. And I really like it when our guests are able to, you know, send us a guest mug. So no pressure. You're not legally bound to do so. It is. You have pushed the idea into my mind. You have put it in there. So at some point I'm going to be out in the world and a mug will speak to me and then I will grab it and then I will send it to you. There you go. And it can be a, it can be a mug you already have. You could be at a diner and you're like, this mug is cool that I'm drinking out of. Let me tell people that I just sat down here and looked at this mug and thought it was cool. Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. It's going to happen. At some point, you're going to just receive a mug in the mail and it will have found you. Not to devalue the invitation, but it's actually open to anyone. Anyone can submit a guest mug. Not just guests of this podcast. No. The guest and guest mug is not because they are guests of the show. It's because there's a mug that is guesting on the page. We've had several guests of this podcast submit mugs. Ian Toohey or Evan Toohey. Good old Jimmy I know him as Jimmy, and I forget his first name. I'm sorry. Well, I mean, his brother Ian did submit one. There we go. As well. That's why. He's not been a guest on the podcast. Ariel Powershaw, past and future guest, has submitted a mug. Andrew Greetings submitted a mug before he was even a guest on this podcast. J.P. Leck has submitted a mug as well. And of course, both Brett and I have submitted guest mugs as well. So it's all in the family. Anybody is free to do it. Just you can DM it to us on the Instagram or you can email it to disenfranchepod at gmail.com. Just if you're not familiar with the format, check out the page and look at a couple posts and you'll get it. You will. Just send us a photo and tell us about the mug and what's inside it. It's just that easy. Okay. It's just that easy. I'd also like to give a shout out to my previous coworker and good friend, Kyle. He revealed to me yesterday during a text message that our podcast is one of his main weekly podcasts that he listens to. He's devout to it, you might say. So that's very thrilling. That makes me happy. I just wanted to shout him out and say that that we appreciate that we appreciate the the listen and uh you know hey man if you ever have anything to say go to our patreon and uh put something in those comments yeah for sure and that is our episode on 2009's push devon once again thank you so much for being here. We were absolutely thrilled to have you back. As always. We will have you back again. It's in the books. It's on the cards. It's going to happen. I push my voice into your listeners' ear holes and I'm going to do it again. You will. I will. Whether they like it or not, but let's be honest, they all love it. I'm going to fucking do it again. This has been the Disenfranchised Podcast for my absent co-host, Brett Wright, my present co-host, Tucker, and our very special guest, Devon Taylor. I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy, saying, until next time... We all better do something quick, because I'm getting sick of drawing dead bodies.
01:41:00
Speaker
Thank