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201 - Hellboy (2019) w/ Cat Scully
69 Plays1 month ago
“Okay, I’d appreciate a prophecy with more relatable stakes.”
This week, we’re joined by a LONG overdue returning guest, our friend, author and Hellboy enthusiast Cat Scully to talk about the ill-fated (and maybe unfairly maligned) Neil Marshall reboot of the Mike Mignola-created franchise! Along the way, we make some time to chat about our personal Hellboy histories, why Ian McShane always hits, and how David Harbour fares in a role made iconic by the great Ron Perlman!
Watch Hellboy (2019) star David Harbour take a stab at another iconic pop culture figure in the SNL short, Grouch: https://youtu.be/kqpak5lFxvs?si=KzuE-rhJ9TGTtyd1
Our guest Cat Scully ALWAYS has something going on! Check out everything she does on the following platforms:
- @catmscully on Bluesky, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and Xitter.
- @CatScullyArt on Facebook.
- Visit Cat’s website at https://catherinescully.com!
- Pre-order Cat’s upcoming novel Below the Grand Hotel on Amazon!
- Check out Cat’s first novel, Jennifer Strange, and the children’s book she illustrated, The Mayor of Halloween is Missing!
- Play Romancelvania, the game Cat worked on, NOW on Steam!
Our therapists say we rely on jokes as a way to normalize. Follow us on following social media to see it in action:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube.
- Email us your thoughts or requests to [email protected]
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd.
- Check out Stephen’s first novel - Check In, Check Out - on Amazon, now available in paperback or ebook: https://amzn.to/44idk8y
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:21
Speaker
A franchise right below will make us rich beyond our wildest dreams. Hell yeah, it is happening. This is the disenfranchised podcast, the podcast from hell, boy. yeah And we are, if you forgot that podcast, all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves, full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, and joining me, as always, he may be a Capricorn and fucking crazy. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker. Hi, Steven. How's it going? Not bad. How are you?
00:00:59
Speaker
I'm doing OK. It's it's the daytime. So I don't know if anyone's noticed these last like three or four episodes. We've basically been. Well, there was one we recorded really late and we we'd be recording these during the day. So it's a little bit of a different Tookie. Like you have different two keys. And the thing is, we're not we're never doing it at the the the normal time recently. We're either doing it early when I'm completely sober or real late when I've already had too much.
00:01:26
Speaker
Like, but see, when we do it right at eight, nine o'clock, that's what I'm getting there. So it's perfect timing. It is. You're kind of cresting the hill. Yes. Yes. Well, we did that. We did that 11 o'clock one. um What is that? I don't know. What is that? Chad, is that you? I don't know. and something Something like dragging around. I don't know. Sander, possibly. I don't hear anything. Let's try. Oh, man.
00:01:59
Speaker
Oh, okay. I mean, it's gone. Whatever it was. I'm using it for a second to try and like, see if it would help reset any sound issues, but let me know if it continues. Do you hear anything still? No.
00:02:14
Speaker
now Yeah, because I can always like mute it until I talk or something. If it comes back. Yeah, it felt like something like someone was like dragging like a heavy metal piece of machinery across across a concrete floor or something. I mean, it might have happened here. I am in a building that's full of artists. There's three floors of studios where I'm at right now.
Guest Introduction: Kat Scully
00:02:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:36
Speaker
and so there's a lot of other artists some of them make really big pieces some of them um like do murals and sculptures so sometimes there are odd sounds in my background because i'm in a working studio with other working artists since the saturday so a lot of them come in on saturday so there may be like doors closing and stuff like that but yeah i'm in an old like uh mill that got turned into art studios oh that's awesome the old mill oh you guys know where it stays in maine never been seen state in maine get out of here you guys ah so uh so yeah i am sober but i did put what i like to call on tuck mugs an undisclosed amount of irish cream in my coffee
00:03:19
Speaker
Ooh. Undisclosed means this much. OK. Oh, OK. I may or may not have I may or may not have put an undisclosed amount of dark rum in my Diet Coke before I sat down to record. So how would you know they're both so dark? How would you know? So dark. It just how could you possibly know? You can't. Yeah. You can't be expected to know. No, and nor should you, because it's undisclosed and it's undisclosed for a reason. Yeah. Yep.
00:03:46
Speaker
because we don't things that happen for a reason happen for a reason. Unfortunately, I do need to mention that after his four week blood oath was ended, ah Brett has returned to the depths from whence he came, AKA work. um And so he will not be joining us on this episode. Maybe one day we'll we'll spill a vial of something sacred and he will make his return. But until then, we are joined by a returning guest,
00:04:14
Speaker
someone that we have been anxious to have on ever since our last visit.
Exploring the Hellboy Franchise
00:04:18
Speaker
The schedules haven't worked out, but the stars have aligned in the sky. It's the perfect time. Some may say it's the apocalypse. I say it's the dawn of a new beginning because joining us today, the author of Jennifer Strange, ah the illustrator of The Mayor of Halloween is missing.
00:04:35
Speaker
It is Halloween, not Halloween Town, right? Yes, Mayor of Halloween is missing, I got it right. And author of the upcoming Below the Grand Hotel, much teased, finally named. Oh my word, she's got a copy. Love it, love it. Please welcome back to the program for the first time in far too long, Cat Scully. Cat, welcome back.
00:04:55
Speaker
Thank you so much. I've been dying to come back. It is great to be here, especially talking about Hellboy. Like if anyone has known me for a long time, they know how much I love Hellboy. So This is just a great property to come back and talk with you all with, and I'm glad all of it aligns so we could do this together today. Absolutely. You mentioned, I think, after the last time you were on that you wanted to do Hellboy, and there's a new Hellboy movie coming out. It's releasing in the UK right now this week. I don't know when it's releasing in the United States, probably never, because that's how these things work. Wait, that's not a fan film? I thought that was a fan film. No, that's a legitimate film, sir. Yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's cool, you guys. It's got your boy from the Fresh Prince, the the butler from the Fresh Prince is in it. Jeffrey. Jeffrey. His hands hurt his wealth, you know. Right, that's not his his actual given name, his Christian name. That's his that's his character name. um So we are talking, ah as you requested, Kat, about the 2019 Neil Marshall film, Hellboy, starring David Harbour, Mila Jovovich, the great Mila Jovovich, speaking of the great the great Ian McShane, sa Sasha Lane, excuse me, Daniel Dae Kim, Steven Graham,
00:06:13
Speaker
Sophie O'Conato, Alistair Petrie, Brian Gleason, and many others. Dare I say it? What a cast. What a picture. And oh, and Thomas Hayden Church. I forgot Thomas Hayden Church. How dare I? Yeah, i i I like he popped in at the beginning and then I forgot he was in it. And then he popped in at the end and I was like, that's nice. Oh, here he is again. I liked his character. He was delightfully silly.
00:06:41
Speaker
Who do you think would win in a fight between Lobster Johnson and Captain America? oh oh That was just a random thought that popped into my head while I was watching this movie today. Gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm not really too clear on what Lobster Guy's powers are, it's except the little glowy thing when he burns you with it.
00:07:04
Speaker
Oh, I mean, he's also let me just check my notes here a certified badass. So yeah, that's very ambiguous. In what way is he a badass? Let's just say Bruce Campbell at one point played him and was going to play him and the Hellboy three gave her the tutorial was going to do so I automatically go okay, Bruce Campbell is gonna win, but I'm a huge Evil Dead fan. So right I'm like, I love Captain America and all that, but loves or jobs lobster lobster john's open figure it out like he would figure out the way around it i think so my votes for him all right right i i don't think i don't know that i have a vote but yeah i think that they would become friends instead it would be like in most comic books when two heroes meet of course they have to fight first and then after a big old fight they're like wait what are we doing we're on the same team wait i thought you were a nazi i thought you were a nazi let's go fight all these nazis why did you say that name
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, like I am I had like Officer Johnson beats Captain America and it's it's that respect now now they're buddies. Yeah. And then they fight the undead hordes of Nazis. There you go. Exactly. I want you to pitch this as a dark horse Marvel crossover that you will write and illustrate please and thank you.
00:08:17
Speaker
1000%. I'm gonna make a note right now to tell my agent Jolene. i Please write. I just told her I want to write IP. So this is ah definitely going on the list. yes Oh, no one is more excited than me.
00:08:33
Speaker
So Kat, you are ah you were you were showing us your bona fides before we started recording. You've got like just a plethora of Hellboy merch. What is your history with the character? What is your history with this particular film? Why did you want to come on and talk about this movie with us today? Give us give us the goss. Okay, so my ah origin story with Hellboy is that around Like when this movie came out, I was a very impressional spooky goth teenager in northern Atlanta and my parents.
00:09:06
Speaker
would not let me watch the Hellboy movie. And I saw it, and I immediately went, that's the film for me. But I was also, at that time, obsessed with Van Helsing. So I just went, I need another i need another thing that's like that. And I saw Hellboy. And I convinced my boyfriend at the time, my high school boyfriend, to go rent the two movies I really wanted to see, which were Hellboy and Dog Soldiers, and watch them at his house.
00:09:31
Speaker
so I could see both of these films because it was also obsessed with werewolves. And that movie, like that, the back to back of those changed my life. They're the reason I became a horror writer. um I saw them and went, I want to write like this. I want to, ah this is what I want to do. I want to tell stories like this. I don't know how. And I was like 17 times, like, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I want to be like an illustrator that does stuff like this. I found out about Mike Vignola from this movie. um My parents were like,
00:10:00
Speaker
comics are for boys kind of like, why would you read comics? I have that kind of upbringing. um And so I didn't get exposed to Hellboy through the comics. I got sneaky movies at my boyfriend's house. Like that's how I would be exposed to nerd dumb and films are more accessible. um Because I didn't have to hide them under the bed like my queen of the dam CD.
00:10:23
Speaker
i'm all um So it was easier to run a film and return it. And when I saw them, I went, oh my God, this is, this is for me, this whole, this is the kind of stuff I want to write where it's kind of fantasy, it's kind of horror, it's noir, it's detective. I was a big fan of Who Framed Roger Rabbit going up. It was my favorite film to watch with my dad. It was already a big noir fan, especially if it's absurd or comic in some way or dark, gothic kind of themes.
00:10:52
Speaker
and So when I heard that there was a Hellboy movie coming out, directed by Neil Marshall, that my friend Chris Golden was involved with, I was like, this is going to be like the best Hellboy ever. And I was already a huge fan of like Hellboy in general. And part of what connected me with Hellboy so much was also the Guillermo del Toro versions. So Guillermo is one of those creators that I first latched onto because I'm a writer and an illustrator.
00:11:21
Speaker
And his process with his journals where he had all these drawings and like writing around them was my process too. And so I've like, I was showing my props here that I've collected like all of Guillermo del Toro's books, like about his Cabinet of Curiosities, which is his writing process on like all of his first films, Pan's Labyrinth, on Hellboy. And it goes through his whole process. I even got this, i this is rare, but the Hellboy II art of the movie, I have this.
00:11:51
Speaker
I have a bunch of the Hellboy comics on my shelf here and I even got the Hellboy 2019 art of the movie because I've worked in video games, I've done a lot of concept art for monsters and things like that and this, the art style that they went for was very video game. It was very, like for all the Hell creatures at the end so I was curious like what was their process and how'd they do that. And I even have, when the movie came out I was so hyped I got a little Nimue
00:12:19
Speaker
And I got that from my desk, and I got a little Hellboy. And I sit in my art studio with all of my Evil Dead and Doctor Strange figures. So Hellboy, as you've probably guessed by now, means a lot to me. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, like you, was introduced to Hellboy through the Hirma del Toro films.
00:12:42
Speaker
um i saw the first one i I saw the first one in theaters. I didn't get to see the second one until just a few years ago, actually. i kind of I kind of slept on that one and was kicking myself for having done so because I think the second one is amazing, like a damn near perfect film. um But I slept on this one until earlier today when we're getting ready to to record this episode.
00:13:06
Speaker
and um Yeah, i this this one made me wish I had more of a background with the comics. like Watching this movie, I was like, I really need to read these comics. like I really need to know like the stories behind this movie. I want to dig into those. I want to know who these characters are, kind of in their fully-flesh, fully-formed persona. So that was kind of my my big takeaway here. I've not been into the comics, which is as a comic book guy is weird for me.
00:13:31
Speaker
I had a couple friends in college that were into Hellboy comics and and got a lot of those. So I was vaguely familiar with some of that from them. I was flabbergasted by the fact that Lobster Johnson was not a giant lobster man, because that seemed very much like something that would fit in that world. Yeah. um so but um But no, i want to like that that's kind of the thing that this has particularly sprung out of is I really, really, really want to get into those comics.
00:14:00
Speaker
um Tucker, what about you? What's your history with the Hellboys? Well, ah in the in the mid to late 90s when Hellboy was enjoying his kind of his premiere, his very celebrated premiere in comic books.
00:14:16
Speaker
Uh, I did read some of that. I had some friends who were into it. I had one friend who especially was a big fan of the art style and would imitate that art style and draw a Hellboy quite a bit. So I did. I read a few of the comics. I didn't read a lot of them because honestly, I couldn't, I couldn't get into him. And I think it was, uh, it's my fault. And this is the fact that as a character, I've never really been.
00:14:42
Speaker
I've never really enjoyed Hellboy that much. and I think it's because I want either too much or something different from it. ah Because all the things all the all the things you put into the stew to make Hellboy are all things that I'm way into. But for some reason, the stew that comes out of it is not something that I've ever enjoyed. Now this movie did win me over by the end.
00:15:06
Speaker
ah But the the first two films, while I can look at them objectively and say these are fantastic films, these are well made, they're well written, I just cannot get into them. I could never get into the comic, and this movie was really, really hard for me to get into. But I actually want to watch it again, because like I said, I was not having a good time until about the third act. And then as the third act was happening, I was like, oh, oh, it's this kind of movie. OK, OK.
00:15:34
Speaker
And so I kind of want to go back and watch it again because I think I would enjoy it more knowing, you know, if I knew then what I know now. I would have watched it differently. Oh, kitty cat.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah, he's disgruntled. oh Feed me. You never feed me. It's within an hour of lunchtime and Ergo is time for him to make noise. so No, but to to sum it up, to sum it up i've always I've always been the demographic, but for some reason, I've always been unimpressed.
00:16:09
Speaker
Fair enough. But you said this one did make some steps to winning you over. It did. It won me over. Like Ian McShane got me through the first two acts. And then in the third act, when I started appreciating what everybody else was doing, I was all the way, all the way into it to the point too where, like I said, I think, but I have to watch it again because I think I'm going to have a really good time with it if I watch it again.
00:16:32
Speaker
And see, the I'm kind of almost exactly the opposite. The first act is where I'm like really locked in on what this is. And I'm having just an absolute, just the best time. And I'm like, holy shit, is this movie gonna slap? Is this movie gonna fucking rule? And by the time I get to the end, I'm like, okay. I just, I don't know, I feel like there's a lot going on here. And I don't know that the pieces meld as well as I want them to. ah they They still feel like there are three separate stories that are kind of being told slightly layered on top of one another rather than one cohesive story. but that's i we can We can talk about that more later. I want this this version of Hellboy. I would like a prestige series, like an HBO series of
00:17:14
Speaker
I was thinking that right at the end when they're doing kickstart my heart and as they're like fighting their way through everything, I'm like, this would make a really good TV show. If this were like two to three episodes of a TV show, I'd been locked in entirely. Because this Hellboy is the kind of Hellboy you could have.
00:17:31
Speaker
on a 13 to 22 episode season of 45 minute episodes, 90 percent of them just being monster of the week episodes while slowly pulling the season plot along in each episode. That's the kind of series this needs to be. Give me some monster of the week with this specific Hellboy. Yeah, this would be a good like HBO Max like series, either a limited series or an ongoing series. I am absolutely with you on that.
00:17:59
Speaker
um Man, this yeah, there's a lot to talk about with this movie.
Comparing Hellboy Films
00:18:04
Speaker
um I do want to get into the development of it a little bit because this movie started as the third Hero Del Toro Hellboy movie um after the success of Deadpool when people realized, oh, you can make an R-rated superhero movie and people will see it.
00:18:22
Speaker
um Del Toro reached out to Mike Mignola and reached out to Ron Perlman and they had a sit down and were kind of like, hey, let's brainstorm a third movie. Let's kind of do what, you know, let's, let's keep it going. ah But at that point, I think Mignola had already been contacted by the studio who wanted to do a ah hard reboot.
00:18:43
Speaker
um I read a lot of conflicting reports about the development of that third movie. Some were saying that it got, like there were multiple scripts written for it and that one of those scripts was turned into this movie. Some said the development process, there was a rift between del Toro and Mignola that kind of led to the disillusion of the thing. Some said this was already in the works and it may be some combination of the three of those things that led to this movie. ah But at the end of the day,
00:19:11
Speaker
There was some kind of rift between ah deltona Del Toro and Mignola, and so they decided to strip a lot of the Del Toro-y stuff out of what they had and just went ahead with a ah reboot a hard reboot of the franchise with David Harbour.
00:19:28
Speaker
hot off the success of Stranger Things in the lead. So that's kind of what we end up with here. um And i think it's I think it's better than the critical reception and and box office numbers would would have you believe.
00:19:44
Speaker
but um I don't know that, it's it's hard to take it on its own merits for me at least. And I don't know how you guys feel about this, but it's hard for me to take it on its own merits without comparing it to what came before, ah the del Toro films in particular. Cause those meant so much to me. Kat, I know Tucker said he didn't really care for those, but you are a big fan of the del Toro films. Like, I don't know what, what what are your thoughts on that?
00:20:08
Speaker
I am an enormous fan of the first two, but I also know and respect that Garvel did his own thing with them. They're not the Hellboy comics. I know that basically they collaborated and then Del Toro tried to put a lot of himself into the Hellboy films. And I think it's- Especially the second one I'd say. Especially the second one. And I was even reading like in this copy of Cabinet of Curiosities by Guillermo del Toro. He was talking about how he kind of likened Hellboy to his father, who had been through a war and that like parts about him being kind of a lovesick teenager or like how he saw Hellboy and his take on it and how he related that character to himself and allowed him to express his own kind of story. And I think he put a lot of heart into it. And I think that heart came through in that character and that and his love of monsters really came through with
00:21:04
Speaker
Um, the new movie, what I do know about it is that there was a lot of that creative differences between what Hellboy is, what Mike Mignola wrote, that world, his tone. And I think Guillermo del Toro dips into that. But it's a Guillermo del Toro world. And we love visiting his world. And he even writes in the Cabinet of Curiosities that he views each film as a room in his house, in his bleak house.
00:21:32
Speaker
and you're going from room to room, and so they're all connected. So you're visiting Guillermo del Toro's house if you're watching one of his films and you get that sense of storytelling, of world, of, it's a beautiful thing to watch. um And the character development is very similar between his films. But is it a Hellboy story, like in the comic sense? Not really. It's, it's,
00:21:56
Speaker
one of those things I think that's been hard to translate to film because things have happened in production, because things have happened with writing. Being friends with Chris Golden, I've been friends with him, I think, maybe eight to 10 years at this point, and I've talked to him a lot about Hellboy, and I've met Mike Mignola once, mostly what I said to him once, thank you so much for having Hellboy. ah But I know that There has been a mistranslation. And with this particular film, with the 2019 one, I know Neil Marshall was going through a divorce. He was going through a lot of personal um fallout at the time. And that took him away from said a lot, from what I've heard. And it made it not quite the film they had originally planned. And I know Chris Golden wrote a lot of the Hellboy 2019 with David Harbour. And then it got rewritten.
00:22:49
Speaker
um And the i what I watched the film with him when it came out and he said the one scene that had stayed in that he wrote like where the writing was close to what he originally did for it was the ah scene with Merlin in the cave with Excalibur. That was Chris Golden. like okay But there was a lot that happened with this film that to me It felt like it's not unlike what happened with, say, Multiverse of Madness with St. Ramey, where St. Ramey's handed, here's some pieces of this film, put it together. And then there's executives coming in and saying, write it this way, no, do it that way. And then new writers are brought in. And then by the end, when we see this movie, it's almost a hodgepodge of things. Some of them were good, and they were seeds of something good. But when they had to cut it all together at the end, they're just trying to piecemeal this thing that could have been great.
00:23:43
Speaker
and make a final film and push it out and say, okay, here it is. And you could see bits with Baba Yaga. You could see bits with Merlin Excalibur, bits with the Wild Hunt, bits like with ah the Blood Queen, with Mila that were great, but they somehow don't all glue together. And you can almost see where I'm presuming there's executives coming in going, no, do this, do this, do this. And it's kind of killing the creative process.
00:24:11
Speaker
versus with the Guillermo del Toro process. It felt like it was really his artistic vision that carried through, and it had a seamless like narrative that was clearly him the whole time versus how Hodge Podge of Things put together. It became a final film.
00:24:26
Speaker
So there was a whole lot about the 2019 version that could have been great. Like David Harbour put his heart into it. Mila put her heart into it. Like you could tell Ian McShane really delivered. Like everyone was giving their best and you could tell. But it still got cut together in a way that was just like, this is all choppy. This is too much. Like this needs to be a clear narrative run through.
00:24:52
Speaker
And it was also pretty and gross to look at, which I enjoyed on the Hellboy one. I'm like, this feels like a really, like horror video game, a Hellboy video game i I want to play. Or in a TV show, like you mentioned, that would be great. A Monster of the Week with Hellboy would be closer to the comics, because he's, you know, going through issues of, I have to solve this, I have to solve that. It's a detective solving supernatural mysteries. like Well, and that's that's the thing about movies like um like this in Van Helsing, um, the one with Hugh Jackman is that they introduced this world and there's so much cool stuff. You got your little detective agency and you got your gadget guy and you got this guy and that guy and this other helper. And then you do one thing with it.
00:25:40
Speaker
And it's always like some world ending thing. Like, give me some lower stakes in a TV series. I need to explore that world more. It's the same. I was thinking of Van Helsing the entire time I was watching this movie. I was like, this is the same kind of like they're setting up this whole thing that I really want to see more of, but I'm never going to get to see more of after two hours. Same here. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say same here. I completely agree with you. I thought of Van Helsing the whole time I watched this movie. Like, please be ah like, if nothing else, be another Van Helsing.
00:26:08
Speaker
But it didn't have the humor of Van Helsing. That's part of what made it like so good. like Van Helsing's so good is it's funny, like inadvertently funny. Yeah. At one point, Hellboy says, I'm i'm sorry, I'm going to need some more relatable steaks. And I was like, I feel that. like i yeah That's kind of what we're talking about. is like And I don't know, the world is so fun that you can in a TV show, you could like have you know, Alice and Dymo and Abe Sapien and all these, you know, different members of the the BRPD coming in, like for an episode or two arc per season, like you don't need the whole crew every time. And so it feels like more manageable and help was just kind of your central figure. Because I feel like every time one of these comes out, it's like, well, we've got to have different characters in the b BPRD. So we're not doing what those films did. So we're not doing what this next guy is going to do.
00:27:02
Speaker
Like we got to kind of do our own thing with it. And so, but we got to make it feel different from what we did before. And it's kind of a whole thing, but there's so many characters that flesh out that world that, I don't know, I think a TV show would do a lot better of kind of piecing those together. And then you could save like the big world ending stakes for like the last episode of the season or for the last couple episodes of a season, rather than just, you know, every movie has to end with an apocalypse.
00:27:27
Speaker
os Yeah, I feel like they could have done what they did with Ash versus Evil Dead where they had like the overall big world-ending stakes with the Deadites and everything that they do finally get to at the end of like the third season. Right. They could have done they could do that with Hellboy and maybe in the future we will see a Hellboy TV show and that will be awesome. i and we' There's so many things being done in TV now that are great. Like I could see that at being a good pitch, but would a studio fund it? I don't know.
Hellboy 2019: Plot and Character Discussion
00:27:59
Speaker
That's always ah that's always the thing. I'm sure there are people that want to do this, like would be like, hell yeah, I want to work on a Hellboy TV show, but it's about can you get it funded, you know?
00:28:09
Speaker
Right. And I mean, the fact that the movies have had kind of a mixed return on investment, I'm sure doesn't help that a lot. Because people are like, Oh, well, you know, these movies only performed so well. You know, maybe a TV shows what they need to kind of, you know, juice up some, some interest and then, you know, do a movie after a couple seasons. Who knows? Yeah. And I'm hoping like we have the Kirk and Van coming out, which we haven't talked about yet. But I'm super excited for that, because it looks like a folk horror film that happens to have Hellboy in it.
00:28:38
Speaker
And that's the way Chris Golden, who worked on the writing, who's been very hush-hush about it, has described it. He's like, we wrote it as a horror film. The Hellboy is it. And I am super stoked for that, because maybe it will like renew some interest and get people excited about, I want to see more of this world, which would you know make a great TV show.
00:28:59
Speaker
i'm I'm excited to see it when it does come out. I am kind of bummed that there hasn't been a US release date yet. I'm kind of hoping that it actually does get released in the US at something other than like VOD or direct to streaming. Because I would love to see that on a big screen. Like it looks like a true indie, which I'm actually very excited about. um Yeah, i i I like the character of Hellboy. I'm interested in like it's ah it's a period piece. That's kind of cool. like i I kind of dig that and i I'm interested in seeing that and I want to read some, hopefully read some comics before we get to that point.
00:29:39
Speaker
you That said, let's talk about the plot of this beast. um This is the plot in 60 seconds, the part of the show where we recount the plot of the film we're discussing, in this case, the 2019 Hellboy film um in 60 seconds or less. now i as as As my form of penance, I did not ask Kat prior to the recording if she would be willing to perform the plot in 60. She has opted out, as is her right, and we respect it. So as my penance for not, for just like springing that on her last minute, I will take the mantle of the plot in 60 seconds upon myself, upon these broad and heavy shoulders. ah Tucker, you have placed one minute on the clock. And so I will start.
00:30:28
Speaker
Now, there's ah there's a boy, he's from hell. ah But first, it was the Dark Ages, we should call that for a fucking reason. Arthur ah like destroys Nimue, cuts her up into pieces. like Turns her out all over the realm. um There's a pig dude who's trying to get revenge on Hellboy, so he wants to go find her. Baba Yaga's like, go find her, and then you can kill Hellboy. So Hellboy gets ah told to go to this secret like boys' club in England. They're going to hunt a giant, but it turns out they're hunting him. But there's actually giants. 30 seconds. 30 seconds.
00:31:01
Speaker
So he kills the Giants and yeah gets kidnapped by this girl named Alice, then the BPRD show up, and they find out, oh, it's actually Nimue the whole time. And so Alice is a psychic. This Dymo dude like can is is a wear jaguar. um Fuck, Nimue gets sewn back together, and and i can wrap it up b all the minions of hell come out. Hellboy turns into a big monster man, ah chops her head off, and throws it into hell, and the good guys win. And that's time. but Yeah, baby there's a lot going on in this movie. You did it. Nice job. At some point, he promises Baba Yaga his eye because it's even you piss yellow likes. You did the classic plot in 60 seconds trope of explaining like the first 10 minutes of the movie really well. And that's my favorite part of the movie, though, is the first 10 minutes. Like I fucking love the first like 45 minutes of this movie. I'm like, and yes, this is fun. I'm having a good time.
00:31:59
Speaker
And the it like the more I watch, the more I'm just kind of like, oh, um this is still going on. Baba Yaga still around? I don't think I've ever experienced this in the way that I have. It's exactly opposite of you. It's like I when I got to the third act, I was looking back in my mind at those scenes I didn't like. And I was like, maybe I do like those now. Kind of like in a way that ah you guys seen Martin, you know, George O'Mearls Martin. Man, first time you watch that movie, that movie sucks.
00:32:27
Speaker
Uh, no pun intended, but until the last 10 seconds and you're like, Oh, Oh, I get it now. Now this movie is good. And then you watch it again and you're like, Oh yeah, that's good. That is good. Oh, I get that now. That's why that's good. And I could, I, as I was watching the third act, I was retroactively thinking of other scenes in the movie that I didn't like before. And I was like, Oh, I now I see why that was good. Like now I like that. Yeah.
00:32:56
Speaker
Unfortunately, Steven, that didn't happen for you, unfortunately. No, it didn't. I like literally after the shows the the cold open with Nimue and Arthur, I'm like, holy shit, that was awesome. Like, I loved that. That was great.
00:33:10
Speaker
And then the next scene is Hellboy fighting a vampire and ah in like a wrestling, pro wrestling match, like an underground Mexican ma wrestling match. I'm like, this fucking rules. Like, is this movie? ah And then he's like, oh, well, we need you to go on a hunt for giants. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? This is amazing. And then after the giant scene, I'm just like, ah there's like kind of a little deflation for me. And I'm like, oh, I was having a lot of fun when Hellboy was like murdering giants. That was that was a good time. um this This stuff in the kitchen,
00:33:40
Speaker
not as fun for me. Oh, the character development. You didn't like that. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. When it slows down and actually tries to say something, you're just not into it. Got it. I guess I won.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. We had a similar experience. I mean, the very beginning of the movie, I had the same reaction. So like, this is great. This is great. This is great. And then I got to the giant scene. I had the same dip of like, oh,
00:34:08
Speaker
I don't know what it was exactly about the giant scene, but it was just like a letdown after that. But then there were so many cool special effects that held my interest with those. like I loved everything with Alice and the protoplasm of summoning spirits and um a lot of the fight scenes were fun. I loved the luchador.
00:34:28
Speaker
like, wrestling scene so much. I thought that was great. I'm like, oh, we're gonna see Hellboy with some monsters now. Like, lots of different monsters. This is great. This is like the comics. Cool. Um, but yeah, same experience as you. It just started to ah dip for me. But i i I felt like they were trying to do these ends I couldn't quite follow, like,
00:34:51
Speaker
Alice in the Changeling, like how Hellboy rescued her as a baby from fairies. And then this is a disgruntled fairy that looks like a pig who's upset he didn't get to be human. Now he's come back for revenge. And I'm like, this kind of it's a Hellboy plot. But it's like, they skimmed it and went, Yeah, that sounds Hellboy. You know, but then then don't be deeper.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, the the the thing you were talking about earlier about how this feels like a hodgepodge, and I used this analogy when we talked about another movie where a woman gets cut into pieces and sewn back together, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, a couple weeks ago. it Yeah. will It feels like um like you can tell there were a number of writers working on this project, ah and it feels like everyone kind of had to leave their mark, and so it feels very,
00:35:45
Speaker
uneven, like the the tone is inconsistent, and it feels too busy. There's too much going on, because there are too many things that too many people are too precious about, and just unwilling to let those things go. And I think when that stuff happens, like this, this is, this is two to three episodes, great episodes of television.
00:36:04
Speaker
crammed into one two-hour movie. And if we'd given some of these subplots a little more time to breathe, a little more room to actually develop, I think I would have had a lot more fun. And I think maybe that's why I enjoyed the first act is because everything is romping along and you're getting just the right beats that you need. And then it feels like we're into another movie and that movie is I mean, I understand that movies got to have hills and valleys, but it's not keeping the same tone and the same momentum moving forward. It just kind of like slams to a halt a little bit and then starts to slowly crawl itself back up to that rhythm that we had and then does the same thing again, like slams to a halt and has to crawl its way back to to that rhythm. So it just, like, there just fits and starts with this thing, I thought. Interesting take, Steven.
00:36:53
Speaker
I mean, that's just, that's that is one man's opinion. And a valid one at that. I like to think so. Yeah, well spoken, sir. Good job. Oh, I have my moments. Few and far between, but moments they may be. Let's be patting you on the back right now. Oh, yay. Thank you for that. Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
um But one thing I did enjoy was seeing some different characters and some different relationship interplay um with those characters. Like obviously Hellboy is back. You can't do a Hellboy movie without Hellboy. Professor Broom is back. um But then you get... um Ben Daimo, who's a character I was not familiar with. Alice Monaghan, a character I was not familiar with. um You get some new interesting villains. Like there was a tear there in the mid to late 2010s where we were all about Baba Yaga just as a culture. You've got the John Wick movies that call them Baba Yaga. You've got David Desmalchian in Man in the Wasp.
00:37:51
Speaker
um Who is doing Colin? Ghost the Baba Yaga and then this movie where you literally see the Baba Yaga which one a Serious man, I love a serious man Yeah, remember at the beginning that scene that has nothing to do with the rest of the movie with the golem Yeah, no No, because remember that it's the two people and the guy brings the other guy home and she's like, no, that guy's been dead for a while. It's the Baba Yaga. I need to watch the beginning of a serious man. I know. I thought there was a golem in there, too. Am I misremembering that? I could be misremembering that. It's been a long time since I've seen a serious man, so I need to rewatch it.
00:38:36
Speaker
It's, he says it's his favorite Coen Brothers movie and then he doesn't even know what this guy. I've seen it one time and I thought it was amazing. What do you want from me? I'm sorry, I don't memorize all my favorite movies, Tucker. No, no, Steven, that actually makes me feel guilty for owning it when it's your favorite Coen Brothers movie. Makes me want to give my Blu-ray to you so that you can watch it more. I'm waiting for the 4K. Yeah.
00:39:02
Speaker
I guess. I want the 4K steelbook of A Serious Man. That's all I want. Now look, Criterion is only now just putting out a 4K of No Country for Old Men. So good luck, Steven. We'll see how long that takes you. Yeah, it might be a while. Because nobody but me and you give a fuck about that movie. Hey, I'm a patient man. Michael Stollbarg is a serious man. I'm a patient man.
00:39:25
Speaker
<unk> He's in the series. He's in the Fargo series too. Oh, I i do like Michael Stilbarg. That's an after all show up for him. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. No, I'll show up for Stilbarg. He's great. i've I've never seen him give a bad performance. Even, even his like two minute scene in multiverse of madness. I'm like, right on Michael Stilbarg. Love you, man. Wish you could be in more of this movie. Sorry, your agent couldn't cut you a big, couldn't get you a bigger check. Yeah.
00:39:54
Speaker
I forget who he was in Multiverse of Madness. He's like when Miss West, the doctor from the first movie, he's the guy sitting next to him at the wedding. Yeah, yes, that's right. That's right. Oh, man.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's one of those characters that's like a big deal in the comics and you get, you're like, Oh, Michael Stillbark, he'll come back in the sequels. And then you see the second movie. You're like, Oh no, this is all he's going to do the rest of this entire, this entire franchise. He's, he's done now. Okay. We're, we're good. We're good now. He's done. yeah Yeah. That's kind of one of those, like, well, I'm out of the franchise. Bye everybody. Kind of, kind of rolls. Dipping out of this one now.
00:40:33
Speaker
When it comes to the MCU, though, do you do you ever really know if anybody's out, out? Like, would anybody have guessed that Tim Blake Nelson would be coming back this late in the game? No. Good yeah question. I mean, is everyone, anyone really gone? They're probably going to come back. It's comic book logic. How does it say if it's based on comics, nobody's dead in the comics? I guess it depends on on how bad their career needs. It needs a boost at any given moment, really.
00:41:01
Speaker
ah Robert Dunn and Junior. Yeah. Don't get me started on that shit again. I'm mad. I'm mad again. Yeah, we got we got Tucker all worked up a couple of weeks ago on that shit.
00:41:13
Speaker
Oh, that's that that's when I was also like, oh, no, we are. We are all of an accord. Ah, just it hurts because it's so dumb. It hurts my brain. Yeah. That's all. There's pain. No, you're not wrong. In fact, you're absolutely right. It's it's it's the children who are wrong. Yeah. um The children, the children. Damn wiener kids.
00:41:40
Speaker
um No, I there and yeah, there are elements of this movie. I like I love the all the various um the new characters that we meet. I love the were jaguar. Like that was fun. Like he keeps stabbing himself with something and I'm like, is he a werewolf? And I really wanted him to be a werewolf.
00:41:58
Speaker
I thought he was just to and like Hulk out and be a big monster or something. And that was a character that I started out just really not liking, but as time went on, just the way that, uh, he just kind of evolved as a character in that short bit of time that we had with him, I thought was some really impressive, uh, acting. And I think whoever wrote that part of the story did a good job writing that character's arc.
00:42:29
Speaker
No, he's not in the comics, is he? is or is Or is he in the comics? Is he a character from the comics? I'm trying to remember who he is. I think that he is. I can't remember when he appears. Yes, he is a character from the comics. I've got the the hero fandom wiki up right now, um trying to see like if they've got like first appearance or anything. ah But no, apparently,
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, apparently he was a part of the comic. I see a picture of him drawn by Mike Mignola, several pictures of him drawn by Mike Mignola here. It doesn't look like he was a Jaguar man, though. It looks like he was something else much more like sinister and like evil looking. Honestly, it looks really fucking cool is what it looks like. It's this big and like red monster thing that's kind of hairy, kind of scaly.
00:43:22
Speaker
um Yeah, and then he he's and then he's just a jaguar in the movie. Kind of makes me wish we'd gotten that. Speaking of his wear jaguari, who um another time I was thinking of Van Helsing when I was watching this movie was when he transformed. Because it looks just like all the transformations in Van Helsing. Exactly, exactly the same.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yes, exactly the same. I was also thinking the same thing. I'm so glad that you said that because the Jaguar, I was like, this is like Hugh Jackman. Jackman's werewolf transformation was very sexy at some point. yeah that's the one difference so Interesting angles in that one. I'll tell you what. I mean, this one, it's it's sexy when it comes down from it.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, and he's like, oh, I came back and say like, no, and is and it all just fall. All the hair just falls off him like so gracefully. good I will never unsee that. Oh, that's such a great movie. I'm so glad i had I found that on 4K for five bucks.
00:44:29
Speaker
Best five bucks I ever spent. Oh, I bet. And housing for sure. Good. Fantastic. Because it was that's a movie that was made right when digital was starting to kind of take over. Right. um As far as filmmakers using digital instead of actual film. And so it's that real. It's got that real glossy look of the early 2000s when they first started using digital. And it looks great in UHD. Fantastic. Looks good, you guys. I'm saying buy it.
00:44:57
Speaker
Okay. Notice, maybe spend $10 on it, maybe. I would. I got a deal, but it's worth more than five bucks for sure. Van Helsing's worth it. do It's my cheeseburger movie. I don't know if you all have those movies where are like, they're so bad, but they're so good. Van Helsing's my cheeseburger movie. Hell yeah. That's most of the movies I watch. It is like Tucker's diet is pretty much cheeseburgers.
00:45:21
Speaker
I love it. You have a cheeseburger diet. That's great. Whereas my actual diet is mostly cheeseburgers. So there's that. and There you go. but ah Um, so apparently Ed's grind screen, S-K-R-I-E-N, sorry, Ed, if I'm butchering your name and I probably am. Um, he was originally cast as Dymo, but, um, found out in doing his research that the character was, uh, a Japanese American character in the comic books. And so he's like, you know what? An Asian actor should be playing this role. I'm out. And, uh, so the role went to Daniel Dae Kim from Lost and other things. Yeah. And, um.
00:46:00
Speaker
That was, I think that was a good move and good good for him. And then Dick him and screen met later on and actually became friends as a result of that decision. So yeah. I love that so much. That's great. Like he recognized and stepped back and now we have that great performance. So I liked him as a character. I think he was great. I wish we had more of him, honestly. He was one of those pieces of the movie that I felt like they were trying to do something good and I want more of him.
00:46:29
Speaker
And his like relationship with Hellboy, I think it was great. Especially because Abe Sapien wasn't in the picture yet. It was good to have him. Right. I mean, Abe Sapien is barely in this picture. um Just the quick hand at the end. um that That one of many teases for the sequel that would never come. And I think they knew opening weekend that sequel would never come. um I want to see the sequel. I want to see the TV show. Do the sequel as a TV show. That I would watch.
00:47:00
Speaker
that I would watch. Oh, yes. They actually wanted Doug Jones to come back for that cameo, but he was too busy. Just just Doug, just Doug Jones. Indianapolis, Indiana's own Doug Jones, um who who played the character in, he's great, who played the character in the Del Toro films. He was busy on Star Trek Discovery, which is a great show that he is on. um I like Star Trek.
00:47:27
Speaker
You may be surprised he's a very silly person. I'm actually not surprised by that at all, actually. Very, very silly man. And he was great in What We Do in the Shadows, too. I love that they brought him in for a little bit. And then he's been a regular. And that's been so wonderful to see, because he's gotten speaking roles, which is so great. Because he was usually the pale man in Hands Elaborate with the hands. And he got a little bit of speaking lines and helped us focus.
00:47:54
Speaker
um But yeah, he did Abe Sapien's voice in Hellboy 2. In the first one, it was Niles from Frasier. That it was, it was Niles from Frasier. In Hellboy 2. It was uncredited for that movie because he didn't want to overshadow Doug Jones's performance. And then Hellboy 2. Which was great. They were just like, hey, Doug, you could do that, right? And he's like, yeah, I could do the Niles voice. And so he did it. He's like, I could have done it in the first one, too. Why did you tell us that?
00:48:25
Speaker
Why'd you tell us that? We could have saved so much money. We had to buy Niles from Frasier. We didn't even get Frasier from Frasier. The Niles from Frasier move feels like a producer going, I don't know, we could get one more big name in this movie. That would be great. you know And instead, because he wasn't in the credits, everyone's like, is that fucking Niles? Like sitting in the theaters going, wait, that sounds like fucking, is that fucking Niles?
00:48:52
Speaker
Yes, yes, that is fucking Niles. Is that that guy from Wet Hot American Summer up there? Really? Oh yeah. Yeah, Wet Hot American Summer. I still need to see that movie. Like, I think I have to see Wet Hot American Summer. You will love it. Watch the whole franchise. Two films and a TV series. That's the way to do it. Okay, the whole thing. I'm in. It's two TV series, isn't it? No, it's two films and a TV series.
00:49:21
Speaker
I thought it was the film and then the TV series and then a second TV series. Boy, let me tell you what. I'm going to look it up. but Take me to school, please. OK, so I could be wrong, but OK. Oh, ah you are correct, Steven. It is one movie and two television series. Now savor this, Steven. Do your little dance. Take it in because you know this does not happen often where I am wrong. So I'm letting you have this.
00:49:51
Speaker
know I'm taking it. i yeah oh i'm i'm Inside I'm doing cartwheels. I'm on testing it. I have downstairs neighbors, otherwise I'd probably physically be doing cartwheels, but yeah. Once again, let me say it one more time for anybody in the back that didn't hear me. Steven was right, and I was wrong.
00:50:08
Speaker
o You did it, Steven. You did it. All right. That great episode, everybody. Let's shut her down. There we go. That's it. go Put out on top, right? Yeah. Last episode ever of Disenfranchised. We're all done. We're done. That's it. Kat, thank you for being a guest on the last ever episode of this show. Oh, you're welcome. I will never be wrong again. We all know that's not true.
00:50:40
Speaker
Oh, God, we're having too much fun. um um i I love what McShane is doing in this. i He was apparently very good friends with John Hurt.
00:50:53
Speaker
And they worked on a a film together, the Hercule feature episode of this podcast Hercules together, which makes you make Shane said he really loved because I got to like hang out and like, have like long leisurely launches because both of them were barely in that movie.
00:51:07
Speaker
um But I like, of course, John Hurt, who played Broome in the the first two films. I like, he's doing a bit of a different thing, although it feels very similar to what he's doing in American Gods as well. Like ah kind of that similar mentor role, who's a little bit of an asshole. um He talks, in his very first scene, he talks about shaving, but he's got a beard in this movie. He's like, yeah, my dad told me to shave every day, and he's got a beard. And I'm like, well, then why don't, that's not a five o'clock shadow, sir. What are we doing here?
00:51:36
Speaker
Well, did you guys notice that so Ian McShane starts out the movie as the narrator, but he's speaking in in an American accent when he's there. And then in the very next scene, his character comes around and he's speaking in his native accent, right?
00:51:57
Speaker
And i that was very, that kind of, I was like, did you not think that we were going to know that was also Ian McShane? What's your game here? What's happening? I almost wonder if he hadn't, if they didn't want him to dub over everything he'd already done. And then while he was in the studio doing that, he ADR'd the narration as well. And then they just decided to scrap the Americanized ADR.
00:52:22
Speaker
I don't know. It was. and And you could tell he did a great job with the narration, but there are some points you could tell is the first time he'd ever read it. Like there were some names where he' you're he's like, hold on. You can like almost hear him adjusting his glasses. yeah
00:52:40
Speaker
I love that. He did great. I mean, he knocked it out of the park. There were just a few moments where you're like, yeah, he's trying to he's sounding out the next word as he's saying this one. like I could tell. He is one of those actors who just like gives everything a shot of instant gravitas just by showing up and saying like five words. like If you just need someone who communicates gravitas just by virtue of their presence, he's one of those guys for sure.
00:53:05
Speaker
Oh, come on, you guys. Do you see Deadwood? He is Deadwood. There's no Deadwood without Ian McShane. Because what else are we going to do? Rely on Timothy Oliphant's personality? No, which is great. But he's everything is reactive to Ian McShane in that show. So everyone that's in that show does a great job reacting to him. It's his show. You don't have Deadwood without Ian McShane.
00:53:28
Speaker
And to be clear, now I love Timothy Oliphant, but I like him. he's He's so much better in comedies than he is in dramas. It's not even funny. I love him. Like his work in Santa Clarita Diet, maybe some of the best work he's ever done. He is so good. at me He made me cry a few times in Deadwood. That's fair. And I think Justified is very good, a show I've i've only watched like three episodes of.
00:53:51
Speaker
Uh, me too. And I was just like, I don't care. I want to care, but I don't. ah The reason I want to care is Walton Doggins. I want to, I want to see more Walton Doggins. And Tim and the Oliphant in the same show. Those two together. Yes, please. Yeah. yeah but I just couldn't get into it i into it. I imagine if I give it a season or two, I'll probably be like better off, but I just, I need to actually like sit and give it the time, you know? Yeah.
00:54:16
Speaker
Also, Ian McShane with his standout performance in Hot Rod, the thing that he gets noticed for the most out of all the movies that this man has been in, the performances this man has given. And he's known for the silly dick and fart joke movie. Future episode of this podcast, Hot Rod. Yes, it's such a good movie, too. And he's great at it, too. We will cover it very soon within the next few months. Yeah.
00:54:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely loved him and John Wick. Like, oh, what a good performance John Wick. Oh, those are some of my favorites. I'm a big Keanu Reeves fan. of Like The Matrix is one of my top five favorite movies. So I i just I loved it. And my upcoming novel below the Grand to Hotel took a lot inspiration from the John Wick Hotel.
00:55:06
Speaker
So yeah, I i love Ian McShane. And I loved him in the American Gods too. like I was a really big fan of like Brian Fuller and Hannibal. And so obviously loved the first seasons of American Gods that he did. And Ian McShane's just an incredible Odin. like He was just made for that part. So I thought he made a really great Professor Broom.
00:55:30
Speaker
What was the other movie, Steven, that we watched recently for the podcast that Ian McShane was in? That's a great question. You made me, right? We were talking about him just a few episodes ago. We were. Less than 10 episodes ago, I feel like. I don't remember what that would have been off the top of my head. You keep talking. I'll find out. Neither. Yeah, I don't know what that was. No, he's great in everything, though. I feel like...
00:55:55
Speaker
Uh, whenever he comes around, like he's at least going to, when he's in something, the parts that Ian McShane is in and something is going to be good. Even if it's not a good project is what I'm saying. Right. Oh, for sure. Inclined to agree. For sure. Still looking. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Steven's having a look there.
00:56:18
Speaker
Oh, that the cat knows that knows what it is. The cat knows. It's like I know you can listen to me. Understand my cat noises. Feed me. Why have you never fed me? Not once. Not once have you fed me. See, you call the police on you. Here they go. Yes. Oh, I guess I guess that's my penance, really, when you when it comes right down to it. Yeah, I suppose so. I feel like minutes before lunch.
00:56:47
Speaker
Haha, that's what you get, Kat. I feel like I should have looked this up because I also feel like I'm about to figure out what it is like in probably about five seconds. I hope it wasn't fixed.
00:57:06
Speaker
Is he infest? No, no. Is he infest? No. You know, who isn't this, though? Anthony Keetus as a boy. That's true. Baby Anthony Keetus is in that movie. He's Sylvester Stallone's ah um son. Some of the relationships he's had and as ah as an adult would have been more appropriate when he was that age, you might say. Thanks.
00:57:27
Speaker
Oh, man. Oh, damn I did not say that. Did I? I thought I just thought it. I think we might have just been talking about him ah tangentially because I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a lot of episodes of this podcast that we a lot of movies that we will cover on this podcast um that he's in, but nothing that we've talked about recently that he was in.
00:57:50
Speaker
Well, see, that's where you got it wrong there, Steven, is that you're going through episodes, of the podcast, instead of going through his filmography and letting it jump out at you and be like, oh, you covered this, remember? But I also don't see anything. And I'm like down one to 82. So yeah, I'm also going through his filmography and I'm seeing things like um things that we will cover, ah for example, where am I at?
00:58:19
Speaker
Hercules, which I said, Jack the Giant Slayer. Sorcerer's Apprentice, where he is an uncredited narrator. Case 39. And Jay Barichel is awesome. Yes. Your your best friend, Jay Barichel. The Golden Compass, The Seeker, The Dark is Rising, um Hot Rod, like just a shit ton of movies that he's been in that we're going to cover on this podcast eventually.
00:58:47
Speaker
That's very exciting. So you have some look forward to it. And he was on that show, Kings, that I really enjoyed that kind of retelling of the book of First Samuel as a TV show. That I thought was that was shit kind of cool. I i really do. I'm that's really weird. Yeah. Yeah. I i love it, which is that was one of the things that I locked in on early in this movie. Like you've got the religious angle. You've got like the Van Helsing like Van Helsing.
00:59:17
Speaker
you know that's the jesus-y shit that's the double feature from now on Van Helsing Hellboy 2019 you don't watch one without the other from that's honestly thatre the last combo act of this movie takes place in uh st peters basilica in london or st peters cathedral rather in London. I don't think it was actually filmed there, obviously, um which is I think that's where the coronations happen, which is that joke at the end where she's like, so you're the king of England now.
00:59:50
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah dude is he the king of England? Is that is a joke just because it's at St. Peter's? Like, is that it? No, they mentioned it earlier, ah something that was really odd because I didn't understand it. They said something. I think it was the the were leopard guy before we were all friends with them. He was saying something about like he like Hellboy was going to be the king of England. And I was like, I don't really understand that piece of dialogue. But then when they brought it back at the end, I was like, oh, because that was kind of part of the prophecy, but like on a bigger scale.
01:00:20
Speaker
I don't know, it made enough sense to where I was like, OK, I'll allow it. It was the the head of the wild hunt. It was a dude with the deer head on him. He was like, I will not see the throne of England occupied by something, something. Yeah, there you go. The guy from sex education, the principal from sex education. Yes.
01:00:42
Speaker
I turned to my partner, I'm like, is that the principal from sex education? She's like, what? I'm like, nevermind, I think that's the principal from sex education. He was the guy to deliver that line. I will not see a demon sit in the throne of England. Which is just the kind of thing you can see his character from sex education saying, just, you know. And I, yeah, I love the wild hunt stuff. Like I wanted to see like,
01:01:07
Speaker
Because i like that was ah the thing I loved about the Marvel special project, Werewolf by Night, because it's a bunch of these disparate and various monster hunters just trying to hunt down man thing.
01:01:20
Speaker
the giant sized man thing. And um that was the thing I really dug about that. And I was like, is that what this movie is going to be? And then like, it's over in like, 20 seconds. They're like, Oh, good place for an ambush. I agree stab. I'm like, I mean, I saw that coming a mile away, but I was hoping like, it'd be another 20 minutes before they did it. But no, too much other movie to do, I guess. Yeah.
01:01:44
Speaker
It's like they had these slices they went through very quickly. right And they were trying to pull it from other comics like Hellboy and the Wild Hunt. They were trying to pull it in. um But yeah, they were just trying to get a lot of those storylines and like show this world of Hellboy, I think. But because of that, we got these like just bits. And I think maybe that's why the giant scene, that's where it started up for me is I'm like, that went over too quickly.
01:02:07
Speaker
like it was resolved too quickly and right okay now we're on to the next thing and i'm like all right it got tied in but wait i didn't get to emotionally like feel anything before we're on to the next thing i'm just like oh wait he almost got killed now we're now we're over here now we're over there The movie dips, like it gives you that kind of, the audience that time to breathe, but the characters don't really get that. Like, and if you're invested in the characters, you should get that time to kind of exhale as well. And then we're just, but no, we're onto the next thing. There's plot that has to be taken care of. Even if it's just like, ah well, we know he rested on the way to the next thing. Like, but I don't even know that we get that because it's like, oh, he's kidnapped by the BPRD. He has to rush to the Osiris Club. And then we're just like, okay, like calm down.
01:02:55
Speaker
Like I almost wish the Wild Hunt section had been taken out of the movie and made its own separate thing. um Like maybe as a prequel to this or like a... like a short film that they cut specifically for the DVD or something. Because it it almost feels like it just kind of mercs up the front part of this movie. Like, you could have made this thing a cool 90, left that part out. And I don't think you would have lost, other than the, you know, kick ass fight scene with the Giants, you wouldn't have lost a lot from the movie as a whole, I think.
01:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I get, like, narratively, they're trying to have Hellboy fight some monsters while Nimue is growing in power, so that he can see what he's doing, what his job is. ah So I get the point of that, trying to show that in the film. But I agree with you that that felt like its own separate movie to me. It felt like a separate, like, that would be an episode of the TV show. Like, that is the self-contained kind of thing. And that I think that's why we're all sensing that set that, like, I wish this was a TV show. It's like, this was an episode.
01:03:57
Speaker
This was an episode that was strung together so that Hellboy would be but doing something while Nimue is gathering her body parts, going back to full strength and trying to open hell.
01:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. Unlike in Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, where we didn't really get that at all. It's just she was together and every once in a while she'd suck somebody's soul just her so we remember she was there. Right. ah It's almost the same kind of villain in both of those movies. It's like maybe Tim Burton.
01:04:31
Speaker
or whoever wrote Beetlejuice Beetlejuice didn't realize that they almost kind of ripped that off from this Hellboy movie. It's almost like the same villain. But in, like I said, like you were saying in this one, like we get some stuff.
01:04:45
Speaker
you know to sort of fill that time without taking her character completely out of it just to come back in the end like they did in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Like she does appear and she has ah scenes of dialogue with the pig guy and like you you get a sense that there's something going on you know she's gonna betray him obviously so the back and forths between them are always fun just to hear how she words things because he's stupid too stupid to catch all the monkey's paws she's throwing in of all her shit And every single sentence she says to him is in fact like, oh, you'll get what's coming to you. And he's like, all right, great. You'll get your due for sure. Yeah. Right. He's like, yeah, that's fair. I was like, we love that for me.
01:05:24
Speaker
ah Voiced by Stephen Graham, who I, as an actor, I really love, Gangza New York, um The Irishman. I think the first thing I saw him in was Snatch, Guy Ritchie's Snatch, where he plays Tommy the tit.
01:05:40
Speaker
um God, I love, Stephen Graham's a great actor. And the whole time I'm going, I know that voice. Where do I know that voice from? Like at first I was like, Idris Elba? And I'm like, no, he's too big for this movie. And in 2019, Idris Elba is not doing a voice in a movie like this. So, and then I caught the credits and it was Stephen Graham. And I was like, I love Stephen Graham. That guy's awesome.
David Harbour's Role in Hellboy
01:06:01
Speaker
I want to see Stephen Graham do more work. I want i just want him to be working all the time.
01:06:08
Speaker
He's the best. Can we can we eat? too How do we collectively feel about David Harbor in this movie?
01:06:17
Speaker
Oh, let's have a conversation. Okay, okay. Now, not judging judging by your immediate reactions, let me go first. Okay, all right. Because I thought he was fantastic. I thought i' this film kind of made, I'm starting to realize that David Harper is actually a really good actor that can do a lot of different things. And like I didn't, it it took me a while to notice that. And like the first time I noticed it,
01:06:45
Speaker
was like I seen stranger things and I saw the the black widow and all that stuff and he's fun and both of those and he does play very distinct characters and that's cool but when he hosted Saturday saturday Night Live a couple years ago he did a pre-taped sketch that was a parody of Joker but he was Oscar the Grouch
01:07:11
Speaker
And it's one of the most it was it's one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. And he sells it like I'm not. It's a Leslie Nielsen kind of thing. He's not being funny because he's being silly. He's being funny because he's really taking it seriously. You know what I mean? Amazing. Yeah. Oh, it's so it's called Rauch. It's called Rauch. Oh, my gosh. I got to watch this later. I'm going to put it in the show notes and I'm actually going to go ahead and link to it in the in the chat here.
01:07:42
Speaker
Yeah, dudes, it's so good. And like when I saw that, I was like, oh, man, this guy, I think I think this guy's got something like and I'm really happy for him because he's got to be making so much money but money because everything that he does is high profile, big franchise like the man is in all of the big IPs. You know, he's making that money, but I can't wait until his career slows down a little bit. And he actually does some real acting because, damn,
01:08:10
Speaker
Damn, he's going to be good in indie movies in about 10 years. Can't wait for that. I mean, yeah did he did the 2021 Soderbergh movie, No Sudden Move. And he's really good in that one. The one with Brendan Fraser and Don Cheadle and Benicio del Toro. It's great. I forgot about that. That came out and I completely forgot about it. And now I'm mad that I forgot, but I'm happy that you reminded me and now I have to see it.
01:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's he's he's actually very good in that. And it's it's an actual serious role. um And he's he gets to share the screen with some really awesome people too. so um i mean like and You're right. he's He's done a lot of big stuff and he continues to do a lot of big stuff. um He's in the TV movie, Frankenstein's Monsters, Monster Frankenstein, um which I need to see because I just love that title so much.
01:09:01
Speaker
um But I mean, even he was even before he was working on Stranger Things, which he he blew up, he was doing a lot of kind of smaller things in like Black Mass, that weird Johnny Depp movie. ah He was in that. um He's on the TV show, The Newsroom, that Aaron Sorkin show for about 10 episodes on there. um So I mean, he's he's done some work. ah He's in the first Denzel Washington Equalizer movie. um Why did he always make that face on the poster?
01:09:29
Speaker
Denzel, why does he always make, if it's an equalizer movie, he always does this. I mean, that's just, that's equalizer face. I've never seen the movie, but does his character make that face a lot? Cause I've never seen him make that face in any other role or film. But yeah on every equalizer poster, he's like, I have to imagine that's the character. Okay.
01:09:52
Speaker
And he's in a movie directed by the director of Bright, a movie we discussed in this podcast a couple months ago. End of Watch with Jake Gyllenhaal and Michael Pena. He's in that one, too. Oh, that's a good movie. Oh, and remember Tucker when he was in the Green Hornet, when we recovered the Green Hornet and he was in that? Yeah, I liked that movie. You meant to be that? You did. I meant to be that. I liked that movie. So, I mean, yeah, David Harbour, like, I like him as an actor. I really like him as an actor.
01:10:20
Speaker
it's It's a different take on the character, and it's not necessarily that I don't enjoy it. It's just so hard for me. And again, going back to kind of what I was saying at the beginning of the episode, it's hard for me to disengage this movie from the Del Toro movies and to see this as its own thing. Tonally, it's very much its own thing. Visually, it's very much its own thing.
01:10:46
Speaker
But like i am I find such a link between Hellboy and Ron Perlman in my brain that it's tough for me to see literally anyone else playing that part. And I don't think Harper does a bad job here. Honestly, he might be my favorite part of this movie. Just like as a whole, he's probably my favorite part of this film. I like what he does. It's just very different from what I'm used to. And it took me a while to get on the wavelength he was on.
01:11:12
Speaker
When I think that's everybody involved in this movie, kind of when it came out and died, I think they realized that they were fighting a losing battle, no matter how good this movie was. Because Ron Perlman is hellboy to so many people and it it hadn't even beed i but had it been 10 years.
01:11:32
Speaker
Since the second one? Really? Okay. I'm just saying it hadn't been long enough for us to like want somebody else in the roles. I get that. um I don't share that sentiment, but I get it. Did anyone really connect with Andrew Garfield? That was like five years.
01:11:48
Speaker
But did anyone really connect with Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man? Of course you did. If anyone's going to, it's going to be you. I just love Andrew Garfield. He's fantastic. And I love Tobey Maguire too, but Andrew Garfield is just such, he's the kind of caliber actor that like, sorry, Tobey, but you're out of your league, bud. Like, this is Andrew Garfield. Okay. Oh. Have you seen him in the arms of Tammy Faye?
01:12:14
Speaker
Damn, he's good in that movie. You need to see the eyes of Tammy Faye. That is a fantastic movie. You're gonna love it. Everybody's gonna love it. Let's all go watch it right now after we watch Grouch.
01:12:25
Speaker
And well, you've got to watch No Sudden Moves, so. I put it, it's on Mac, so I just put it on my list. My watch list. ah Cat, David Harbor thoughts. i have ah I have a lot, so I'm a huge Stranger Things fan. I was such a big fan. I auditioned to be an extra, and Stranger Things 3, I got it. So I was a background character in two scenes. I was in the mall in season three when the lights go out in the mall in the first episode.
01:12:57
Speaker
um And then I was also in the mall protest scene and I got to be by the car that David Harper drives, like the police chief. It's a lot smaller in person. I don't know how David fit in there because he's a big guy, but he was on set that day. I didn't get to see him, but so was Kerry Ells.
01:13:16
Speaker
Uh, so I'm a really big Stranger Things fan. It was filmed in my hometown of Atlanta. It was like right downtown for me. And I loved that experience. It was so great. And so I'm just, I'm on David Harbor's side. Like whenever he does, I like want to follow his career with great interest.
01:13:32
Speaker
um But he I also loved him in Violet Night. like Can we talk about him as Santa for a second? Because he made a really great Viking Santa. I loved that movie. It was a romp. He was having a fun time. I enjoyed watching him have a fun time ah kill all of those house invaders. So it was really fun. I need to see that one later.
01:13:57
Speaker
oh you got it this holiday season you gotta to watch that movie and then there's a like new weird santa holiday movie coming out with the rock this year so that would be a great double features those two um but back to david harbor and hellboy I felt like when I was watching him, my first impression was like, oh, this guy gets why Ron Perlman was so memorable. He almost like, I felt like he studied the character, he saw the humor, he saw that kind of disgruntled teenager vibe that Ron Perlman had, and he tried to do it in his own way. He tried to be funny, he tried to really show his relationship with his dad, how complicated that was, how complicated his feelings were about being,
01:14:41
Speaker
from Helen also like ah a human figuring out oh I am also part human that's why I want to protect him so much and like you could see him go through all these really big emotions he is trying so hard that whole film and you could tell he like wanted to pay a lot of respect around broman and his performance but man the way it was cut the way it was done I felt bad for him because he clearly wanted to do this so bad. Like he clearly liked the character, he liked the story, he like really researched it. I could feel that and what he did in his performance. And I'm like, dude, you did great. I'm sorry. He really flunked. And I feel the same way about Mila. Like she poured everything into it. she And she even said, I think in an interview, like,
01:15:27
Speaker
I have nothing to be ashamed of with this at all. I know it's a flop or whatever, but I've been part of a lot of flops and I did a great job. And I'm like, damn right you did. You did an amazing job as a blood queen. Hell yes. Like, so I feel that way about everyone's performance of this. Like, you could tell like, Sasha Lane.
01:15:45
Speaker
ah Twisters came out this year and she was in it and she was like flying the drone. that I was like, I remember you from Hellboy. I loved you in Hellboy. I'm so happy you're at Twisters. You're great. I loved Sasha. So it was nice to see her in another like big blockbuster movie of the summer. um But yeah, and I'm trying to remember who plays the medium.
01:16:06
Speaker
um she was wonderful. the The Victorian medium who was blind, what was her character's name? Yeah, she was wonderful. I loved her. She was so elegant and graceful and just gorgeous. And yeah, like, everyone was trying so hard to make this a good movie. And David especially, David was like, I know this is my comic character. I will give it my best shot, I will do my best Hellboy. And it felt like he was trying to do his best Ron Perlman in some moments. So, and he was funny. Like I'm a Capricorn and you're fucking crazy. He was great. That was so funny. I laughed out loud in the theater. ah I think David's naturally funny, but it's in a different way than where I'm Perlman is. And it's a they were given different, you know, storylines to hold up. They were given like different things to do.
01:17:01
Speaker
right And we got those moments, I think, with Ron Perlman, where we have that on that um time as of as an audience to react and breathe to something that just emotionally happened, and it allows us to deepen the character relation, like, to really connect with the Ron Perlman Hellboy. And with um David Harbour, we're just going from moment to moment to moment, and there's not really a time to breathe and, like, sit in whatever feeling Hellboy is feeling.
01:17:26
Speaker
you know, that he's trying to deliver on screen. So I think that's part of why it it wasn't as connective. I think, yeah, I think the editing, a lot of the editing in this movie did not do it any favors. I think one of the weakest points of this film was was the editing. um It was it could be a little incoherent in spots. It could be distracting, which is the worst kind of editing is distracting editing. No, don't distract me. Don't remind me. I'm watching a movie because you suck at editing.
01:17:57
Speaker
Right. And like the one time we really sit with Hellboy's feelings for a moment is when Broom dies. And that I like teared up. I really did in the theater. I just I felt it with him. But everything else, he's just going moment to moment like quippy, quippy, quippy the whole time. And I know he's going through a lot of feelings because you see him up like feeling them in a big way. But we don't get any we don't spend any time on it as an audience.
01:18:24
Speaker
Yeah, and we need to like we absolutely need to in order for us to be able to have that relationship with the character. Um, you know, Tucker joked earlier that, um, I kind of checked out during the character development, but there's not enough of it really to, to really flesh out these characters. Like we get, I think bare minimum. And I think in some ways the movie is kind of relying on the previous versions of the movie to kind of transfer some of that goodwill and some of that character development into some of these characters. Um.
01:18:58
Speaker
whether that's intentional, it probably is not intentional, but it feels like it's allowing the movie to do, or the the previous adaptations to do some of that heavy lifting for them to get us connected with these characters. And unfortunately, they're not doing enough to make us care about the about these iterations of these characters, which is a bummer.
01:19:19
Speaker
Yeah, it is a bummer. And I don't blame David for it. ah Like at all, he really did the best he could. I don't blame any actor in this movie. They all really gave it their best. They all really cared. And you could tell that they wanted this to be good. And yeah, like, what can we say apart from that? They tried. They tried so hard. And i yeah I don't really have a bad thing to say about any of the performances either. Like it's like these are these are actors getting a paycheck and they're doing really good work and i would say
01:19:50
Speaker
probably you know, doing a better job than we would see in probably most Marvel adaptations, to be honest with you. um You know, not to to throw any undue shade at Marvel movies, but come on, most people in those movies are just collecting paychecks. Like these guys are collecting paychecks and actually working for them. So like, I don't know, I feel like everyone, and it's it's people that we don't often see work at this level from, like it's, like Mila Jovovich, like when's the last time she did a big blockbuster that wasn't directed by someone named Paul Tom, or Paul W.S. Anderson?
01:20:22
Speaker
um Yeah. Like, we we don't get to see her act at this level anymore in in this kind of a movie, in in in the way that we used to when she was ah doing stuff like The Fifth Element. And I mean, ah yes, it's directed by Paul W.S. Anderson, but, you know, those first couple of Resident Evil movies where she's kind of performing at that high action level. Like, and to you remember that movie? Oh, sorry. Do you remember that movie where she's face blind? Did y'all see that?
01:20:52
Speaker
i don't think What movie was that? Milla Jovavich. Someone say her last name, Jovavich? Jovavich, you got there. You got there. Okay. and Yeah, Jovavich. There's a movie where she's face blind. Are there two L's in her name? Yes. And two V's as well.
01:21:16
Speaker
Again, I bring the podcast- Is it Zoolander? I fucking love her in Zoolander. She's amazing in Zoolander. Not in Zoolander 2 so much, but in the first Zoolander, she's amazing. Oh, she's so great. I loved her in that movie. She's so funny.
01:21:34
Speaker
She kept calling, what was the designer? It was like Kathy Ireland or? Kithy Lee Gifford or whatever, she kept calling her, ah like calling the main female character after whatever designer she was wearing. She's like, no, it's Jacqueline Smith and it's from K-Mart. And she's like, oh, it's so funny. I found it. It's called Faces in the Crowd. It's from ah straight up 2011. It's directed by Julian Magnatt. And she plays this gal who is has face blindness.
01:22:09
Speaker
and um she gets that face face blindness through trauma after surviving a serial killer's attack and you guys it's real good put on your list no no need to like put it up high priority just throw it on there you'll get to it it's good though well looking at this cast list it feels pretty obvious who the killer is but
01:22:31
Speaker
Right? and maybe someone When they do that, it's like this one's clearly the villain. I was watching I was watching a show recently that had three high profile actors in it. And two of them are in like every episode. I'm like, Oh, well, that one other one's got to be the killer. And I was right. So Yeah. I was just like, you know, if if we're going by what's the rules of law and order, and why wouldn't we be the most famous person in the episodes gotta be the killer? Like, oh, is it is it New York character actor number seven? Or is it like Robin fucking Williams? Gee, I wonder. I who it is. Who could it be? Hmm. Hmm. I love that. I love that for us as the audience.
01:23:16
Speaker
Phenomenal I've yeah when they when when they do that is like do do they think we don't know and I think they don't think we know and That that are I would love to see them play into those expectations like hey, here's a really famous person They probably did it right. Nope. It's this guy you've never seen before in his breakout role I would kind of love that if they did that's called murder. She wrote Oh, yeah, that's right. Does Jessica Fletcher ever team up with Columbo? Because that seems like something that should have happened. No, unfortunately, no. I know she teamed up with Magnum. Yes, there was the Magnum PI episodes. That's for sure. I always wanted her to team up with with the straight up ah
01:24:01
Speaker
both Matlock and diagnosis murder. Let's get all three of them in there. Because you get me some Angela Lansbury, Dick Van Dyke, and Andy Griffith in the same show. I'd never get up from the chair. The geriatric mystery club? Yes, yes, please. Please, yes. That would have been, that would have rolled. That would have rolled.
01:24:26
Speaker
Only diagnosis murder and and Matlock ah did cross over quite a few times. Right. um But Andy Griffith is dead. ah Dick Van Dyke is still alive and Angela Lansbury is dead. Yes. So we're we're down to I mean, it's just it's just Dick Van Dyke now.
01:24:45
Speaker
He's still a pistol man. Sharp as attack. She watched that special. They had a special. No, I did not watch the special. um ah Straight up. Dick Van Dyke's damn near 100 TV special. That's not what it was. I'm that's I'm I'm paraphrasing, of course. I wish that is what they called it. That would be great. I so wish they'd called it that. Dick Dick Van Dyke's damn near. ah
Final Thoughts on Hellboy 2019
01:25:10
Speaker
Yes. Here are all the people he's worked with that he's survived. And it's like Carl Reiner and Mary Tyler Moore and Andy Griffith. and Well, he's like 98 and like on the red carpet to go to his own special. This 98 year old man is like dancing around being a silly boy.
01:25:26
Speaker
He still can and can speak articulately in complete sentences and sound smart and young, and he's just so old. Dick Van Dyke is, I think, one of our our greatest living treasures. When he goes, I don't know what's gonna happen to the world, honestly. And this this spoken by a man who's never seen the movie Mary Poppins. Really? That's upsetting. Really? No, he's that's his favorite movie.
01:25:54
Speaker
It is my favorite movie of all time. Oh, I love that. That's Tucker's favorite movie of all time. Show your tattoo, Tucker. Oh, speaking of, I got a new tattoo and it's right by Mary. See, there's Mary. There's Mary. Wow. And then I got a number 13 right there because of that Rugburn song. Oh, I love that. Yeah, there we go. I have movie tattoos, too. I love that. That's great. Nice. i don't yeah i have But I will.
01:26:23
Speaker
I got Jaw on one leg and then Evil Dead on the other. I've got ah Mary Poppins, I've got Brick, and I've got the Truman Show. Oh, good picks. Brick is so good. It's just a Truman Show. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. I just saw Brick for the first time not that long ago.
01:26:43
Speaker
Yeah. On Tucker's recommendation. He loved it. It's a good movie. I liked it a lot. It's such a good movie. Oh my God. That's where Ryan Johnson, he got me. That's, I will forever watch everything that he does because of Brick. Because it should are shouldn't work. It shouldn't work. Like none of that should work. But somehow that man, he did it. And he did it for the good of all mankind.
01:27:10
Speaker
Yeah, he did. He did it for all of us, whether we appreciate it or not. That's right. That's right. What other thoughts do we have to share about the 2019 Hellboy film, Party People? I got to get ready for work soon. I'm having a lot of hot flashes, so none for me. OK. Cat closing thoughts? I think my closing thought is to give it another watch and then to also like keep your like Like, keep your ears open for any news that The Crooked Man's gonna be released in the U.S. because I would love to be able to support that film and watch it and, like, we could talk about our reactions about them, too, but I think, you know, 2019, Hellboy deserves some love.
01:27:59
Speaker
And it it is what it is. it What happened to it happened. It could have been this really, really great Hellboy adaptation, but I think like it still has a lot of its own merits. And it's still worth watching and checking out if people haven't already. And if they watch it, they're like, oh, I hated it the first time. I would recommend going back and giving it another look. like Give it another shot. That's what my closing thought is. Yeah, I would say definitely worth a watch.
01:28:27
Speaker
Um, you know, make your own decisions, but no, I would say definitely, definitely worth a watch, uh, for sure. Um, the Hellboy movie came out on Wednesday, April 10th, 2019. Uh, it opened third in its opening weekend, uh, to 12.04 million dollars on its way to $55 million dollars worldwide, 22 million domestic, another 32 international. So we're looking at 54, right around 54 million, and on a budget of 50 million. So no, that's a bomb. That's a big old bomb, people, sorry to say. um Opening at number one,
01:29:18
Speaker
Or I guess not opening, because it had opened the week before. that's In its second weekend, Shazam! Shazam! Yes. A movie I enjoy. um Oh, yeah. I had fun with that movie. I didn't bother to see the sequel because I was kind of like, how are you going to do this better than you did it the first time? It's a fun and forgettable for me. Like, yeah, I had fun, but I don't i don't give any kind of shit about it and I'm probably never going to watch it again. That's fair. That's fair.
01:29:47
Speaker
In second place, Little, ah which I think is the Tyler Perry film, Little. I thought it was the prequel to Big. No. Oh, damn. Similar. I mean, you got Regina Hall in there, though. Issa Rae. So, you know, Marsai Martin, like, you know, some some good people in there. ah Tyler Perry produced. Sorry. Tina Gordon is the director on that one. My apologies. Well, thank you for correcting that. I needed to. I felt I needed to. Yeah, dude. Dude, yeah. um Third place, Hellboy. ah Fourth place, ah Pet Sematary, the remake of Pet Sematary.
01:30:25
Speaker
Which that is okay. I will go on record and saying not as good as the original pet cemetery, but it was okay. I still like it. It was okay. I liked how thing how how everything was the same, but kind of exactly the opposite and which made it different.
01:30:42
Speaker
ah in fifth place, rounding out our top five, a director who we talked about on this episode, a director we've talked about twice. We've covered twice already this month. It was his last film before his new release that came out just a few weeks ago. It's Dumbo from Tim Burton. Oh, boy. Yep. Wow. but What could have been his his ah like his dying breath as a director?
01:31:09
Speaker
It could have been, and it almost was. Almost was. To hear him tell it, he almost retired from it. Wow. And would any of us have blamed him? I don't think we would have. No, no. The man hasn't made a good movie since Big Fish. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Wait, did Sweeney Todd come after Big Fish? Because I would say Sweeney Todd, because I like Sweeney Todd. Well, I like Sweeney Todd, too. How do you fuck up Sweeney Todd? It has its look. It's flawed, but I still like it. So how do you fuck that up?
01:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, dude. And maybe you're in systems like casting your wife and everything, I don't know. um Moving on, rounding out the top 10, we've got Captain Marvel at number six, ah Jordan Peele's Us at number seven. Opening at number eight is After. Opening at number nine, ah the Hugh Jackman ah film, Missing Link. That's the the stop motion one, where he is the the Sasquatch.
01:32:07
Speaker
oh And then yeah in 10th place, The Best of Enemies, which I think is that, that's that film with ah Sam Rockwell and Taraji P. Henson, where Sam Rockwell continues his streak of playing racists. And we're all kind of like, Sam Rockwell, why do you keep doing this? Please don't keep doing this.
01:32:24
Speaker
Yes, he won an Oscar for playing a... Yes, but he won an Oscar for playing a... Wait, he didn't win for three billboards. Yes, he did. Ugh, what a movie to win anything for. And so, well, Frances McDormand also won for that movie. Her second of three Oscars for that movie.
01:32:39
Speaker
Uh, I love everybody involved with that movie, but I just, I didn't get, I didn't get why people liked it. It was so bad. I never saw it. I liked that director. I liked, I liked Martin McDonough. I love everything else I've hit. I think that is the only movie of his that he's directed that I've not seen. I've seen all the others. Like I've seen Banshees of Inashiren. I've seen In Bruges. I've seen seven, I've seen seven psychopaths, but I haven't But three billboards, it's one of those movies that you feel like you're supposed to like it. And maybe that's why people do. But i I just couldn't figure out what was so good about it. Normally, like, even if I don't like, and you know this about me, Steven, who even if I don't like a movie, I can appreciate the things that other people obviously enjoy about it. I can see those things and be like, yeah, well, that's great, but it's just not for me. But I don't get it. I don't get it with three billboards. Doesn't make any sense to me. It's just a garbage fucking movie that won a bunch of Oscars for some reason.
01:33:34
Speaker
I don't know, man. But it do be like that sometimes. I don't know. It do be like that sometimes. I don't got it either. um The Tomatometer score on Hellboy is a 17% little rude. oh Oh, boo. Little rude. ah The critics consensus bereft of the imaginative flair that made earlier Hellboy is so enjoyable. This soulless reboot suggests Dante may have left a 10th circle out of his inferno.
01:34:01
Speaker
um Unfair, but I think that's really funny. ah not goingnna oh I get it. I get it now. so So movie critics are just failed creative writers and they're more interested in being clever and sounding smart than actually reviewing fucking movies. Got it. You're just now figuring that out? Yes. Yes. I'm just now figuring that out. Got it. Okay. Welcome. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I've arrived.
01:34:28
Speaker
About time, about damn time. ah The meta score is 31 based on generally unfavorable reviews from 44 critics. ah Tucker, you want to take a stab at that letterboxed score. Oh, man. This one's a hard one.
01:34:48
Speaker
Um, on letterboxed, if letterboxed is going to do what letterbox does, I'm going to say this sits between. Hmm, this is such a hard one. 2.4 and 2.8. So close. 2.0. Fuck a duck. Really letterboxed. 2.0 on the nugget, my friend. Nugget. I said nugget. All right, Kat, out of five stars, what are you giving the 2019 Neil Marshall Hellboy?
01:35:19
Speaker
I'm trying to remember when I gave it on letterboxed. I think I gave it like three stars and I was being generous because I bad. It's probably lower, but yeah. what you but We put you in at three, no problem. three Tucker, what about you?
01:35:43
Speaker
ah Well now this I really don't know what to rate it because like I said for the first two-thirds the film I Was not really enjoying it and then the third act came around and made me retroactively Enjoy the first two acts so I feel like to give a proper rating on this I need to watch it again, but we're here now and I don't have to do that. So um Based on the entire experience I had watching it this time. I'm gonna go 2.75 But I feel like it's at least gonna be a three the next time I see it at least And it's a two and a half for me That's fair. So that that's kind of where I land on it um But I like it like again, I Don't just don't dislike the movie. I had a good time watching it and I at the end of the day. It's fine. It's Look guys did today Yeah, dadada today. It's fine tonight. yeah um like it I There are things I really liked about it. There are things I really didn't like about it. ah So when all is said and done, yeah, it's it's fine. It's a two and a half. i've given I've given movies a lot of movies worse, including a couple of movies that we've watched recently. so Listen to our last week's episode.
01:36:58
Speaker
um But yeah, we're like this one, not as bad as like some movies like Battlefield or like Battlefield Earth, which we talked about last week. ah There's no way that can be as bad as everyone says it is. And then it was worse. Like this one, I was like, is this movie as bad as everyone says it is? And no, it's not. It's not that bad. Is it great? No, but it's not as bad as everyone says it is. Like there's greatness in it. yeah There's greatness in it. There's a lot of potential for greatness in it. Correct. Wow.
01:37:28
Speaker
But ah I mean, ultimately, is it a successful film? I'm gonna say no. um Would it have been more successful as a television show? I would say yes.
01:37:40
Speaker
Yeah. And that's kind of what I like. Yeah, agreed. With a few a few less cooks in the kitchen, maybe. Right. Or maybe everyone's contributing in a writer's room environment. I would say, yeah, like a writer's room instead of when somebody writes it and then it goes to somebody else to rewrite and it goes to somebody else to rewrite. That's not how you do that. That's that's not a good way to do that at all. No.
01:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, particularly, and I think that's a flaw in the the film writing process is that there are so many hands-on stuff and then, you know, script doctors and people that come in to do punch-up. And like, there's a couple of jokes in this movie that felt very 80-yard. Like, why is there hair on your tongue? Like, I didn't see David Harbour's lips moving. I don't think he said that on the day. I'm pretty sure he recorded that after the fact, and they just 80-yarded in as Baba Yaga's making out with his face, so. There were a few instances of that that I noticed as well. Yeah.
01:38:33
Speaker
So that's just that's just the line that I remember that felt ADR to me, but yeah. um That's it. That's our episode on Hellboy. Cat Scully.
01:38:45
Speaker
but god let's Let's not wait two years before we have you on again because I love having you on this podcast. Our listeners love having you on this podcast. You love having you on this podcast. We should just always be having Kat on this podcast. I know you're yeah yeah you'res like the busiest person in the world. I know you've been writing like crazy, you had a video game come out last year, like you've been insanely busy. Tell us what you've got going on, what you're working on, what you have worked on, where we can find you online. Kat, plug away.
Kat Scully's Upcoming Projects
01:39:19
Speaker
All right, so I have a novel coming out next year that is Gatsby meets Hellraiser.
01:39:26
Speaker
It's gonna be out with Clash Books next May, and it's about a pickpocket who picks the wrong pocket, loses her soul to a hotel run by demons. Now she's gotta use her thieving skills to steal her soul back before she becomes a full demon herself.
01:39:41
Speaker
And I am super excited for that release. I just got ARCs last night at Victoria Dalbe's launch party for Celine Shabe. And I have them and they're gold. And I asked them to do the Baz Luhrmann Gatsby intro style for the front cover, but add blood.
01:40:02
Speaker
Just ask the whole vibe. And yeah, they did it. This covers by Matthew Revert. He did an incredible job on it. And I think the final copy is going to have like raised embossed on some of the gold. So it's going to be really, really great. You can find out more about that. I'll be posting news on all of my social media channels.
01:40:26
Speaker
I'm at catherinscully.com. My social media is all the same between TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, it's cat, C-A-T-M, Scully, like Dana Scully, S-C-U-L-L-Y. That's all the same social media handle and Clash Books is publishing it so they will have everything on their website.
01:40:47
Speaker
But yeah, we're gearing up for a really big launch party. What I'm hoping is to do a 1920s Gatsby-style ball here in either Beverly or Salem, Massachusetts. And I have some guests that are coming. I'm going to announce soon. They're going to be part of the performance that night. And I have cocktails.
01:41:08
Speaker
for each of my demons, inspired by all the characters. And I have a local bartender that's gonna be, we're gonna do kind of a series of how to make each of the cocktails. And I cannot wait. This is going to be a really big launch. And so fucking it's be so cool. So that's what I've been busy with behind the scenes. But I'd love to come on the show more often because this is always such a blast to hang out with you all. And movies are so important to me. There's such a big influence on all the work that I write. And I would love to be back.
01:41:39
Speaker
Well, we would love to have you back. We actually wanted it, we weren't able to get the schedules to work out last year, but you were you had been, you've been teasing ah below the Grand Hotel pretty much since your first appearance, but you had also been teasing something that we wanted to get you down to talk about last year. We weren't able to work it out schedule-wise. The video game that you've been working on forever came out last year, Romantalania. Tell us a little bit about that, since you're going to get to plug that last year.
01:42:05
Speaker
Oh, I would love to. So, Romanceylvania was a dream come true because I've been a big Bioshock fan for 10 years or more. I would play it every holiday season. And when I moved here to Boston from Atlanta, I was on a panel at Boscone, a local sci-fi fantasy convention here. It takes place down downtown.
01:42:27
Speaker
And I was approached after one of my panels, where I was speaking about art and animation, ah my friend Amanda Garner, who I'd known for years online, where both authors, both agents had asked me if I ever wanted to work in video games. And I came from Cartoon Network um like doing motion graphics for commercials there. So I was like, I think I could do a video game. I think I could learn Unreal. And she said, well, what's your favorite game? And I was like, Bioshock.
01:42:54
Speaker
And she's like, oh, my husband made BioShock, and we have a studio now. And Bill Garner was the lead level designer on Fort Frolic, Welcome to Rapture, and the Medical Pavilion, if you've played those games. And then he was also um one of the leads on BioShock Infinite.
01:43:14
Speaker
And then when Irrational folded, he opened his own studio, the Deep End Games. And they had a... ah Their first game that came out was Perception, which was a blind protagonist in a haunted house. And you could use your cane to kind of echolocate the ghosts in the house. And it's awesome. It was really great. And we worked on Romanceylvania, which was a Castlevania parody. Dracula laying and slaying his way to true love. There are, I think, like 18 datable monsters in that.
01:43:44
Speaker
And we were having a fun time. It's comedic, it's romance, and it's also um like a platformer, like Castlevania style, where you can go in and like fight monsters. And that was amazing to get to work with some of my video game heroes on a game that we released last year.
01:44:06
Speaker
It was such a wonderful experience, and I'd love to work on another game, truly. I think that would be great, but yeah, Romancilvania was such a great project. It was so much fun. And I highly recommend checking it out. It's on Steam. um There have been some hold-ups with getting it on like Switch and everything, because the war in Ukraine has affected game development and the process of getting things on Switch.
01:44:31
Speaker
So a lot of that has been delayed, like the physical copies and everything, but it's, it's on Steam. You can play it today. So I recommend going checking it out. I'll make sure to put that in the show notes as well. Cause I want to make sure that people are able to get ahold of and play that. Um, absolutely. So check it out. it Yeah, I'm seeing right here. There it is on Steam. I could probably play it on my computer. I might have to do things, but I could probably do it right on. Um, yeah.
01:44:59
Speaker
Hell yeah, i'm not ah and ah tucker Tucker and Brett will tell you. I'm not a big video game guy, but for you, Kat, I would make the exception. Oh, thank you so much. Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, we're going to have you on sooner than later. Let's powwow after this and and see if we can't figure out a couple more movies you might want to cover. cause Yes, please. We absolutely want to get you back as soon soon as possible. um See that, guys? where We want to get the good guests always back, always. Even if we don't mention it on the air, we're always trying to get the good guests back. so um And Kat, you're one of the best. You're one of my favorites for sure.
01:45:34
Speaker
so anytime Anytime doors always open. If there's like a movie that you want to talk about, just just, you know, slide into the DMS and be like, hey, this movie, I'll be like, yep, you got it.
Community Engagement and Podcast Closing
01:45:45
Speaker
it So yes, this has been our Hellboy episode of the disenfranchised podcast. You can find disenfranchised wherever you get your podcasts. Shoot us an email at disenfranchpod at gmail dot.com. Let us know how we're doing. Let us know what failed franchise starter you would like to see us cover, it' one that we have not covered yet. Or maybe there's one that you would like to see us cover again. Maybe you're like, I didn't like what you did with that one. Cover it again. And we might consider it.
01:46:13
Speaker
Maybe. We're not um we're not going it's not go to happen. I can't see that happening. But you know, dangerous things have happened. you can Certainly try. Like David Harbour playing Hellboy. that That's a thing that happened. That's a stranger thing that happened. Sure. It is literally a stranger thing that happened. Exactly. yeah I love that fun.
01:46:34
Speaker
um and You can find us on most forms of social media at DisinfranchPod. Really the only two that I update now are Instagram and Blue Sky, but we're on some others as well. You can just you know join the fan club and follow us there. um You can join our Patreon, patreon dot.com slash DisinfranchPod. Tucker has promised that he is going to release those What Are We Watching episodes that we recorded in, when was it Tucker May?
01:47:03
Speaker
I released them yesterday, dingus. Oh, yeah I mean, he released them yesterday. I am a dingus. You don't get notifications from the Patreon? I'm not a subscriber anymore. You're a patron. Oh, well, you're on the free tier, right? um Yeah. And they didn't get released on the free tier. They got released on the paid tier.
01:47:20
Speaker
Okay, you're right. Yeah. Oh gosh, that sucks for you, Steven. Yeah. I wish I could afford to pay myself five bucks again. I know I could. You could just log in and listen to it on the... Well, go listen to those long promised episodes of What Are We Watching from May that have finally been released. And Tucker is already planning an entire episode just of his shit for What Are We Watching for the next one. So that's gonna be like... The list grows every day.
01:47:46
Speaker
a five-hour long proposition that Brett and I are just going to be held hostage for. It's going to be great. Tell all your friends. Bring snacks, sleeping bag, bring it all. Absolutely. S'mores. Pit toilet. Yeah, you'll you'll need that for sure.
01:48:02
Speaker
um And that's at the $5 level, at the free level. um You will get every episode that comes out. This episode, you might be listening to it on Patreon right now. And if you are, ah just leave us a little ah little something something in the comments and let us know that you are because this is the official conversation of the disenfranchised podcast on patreon dot.com slash disenfranch.
01:48:26
Speaker
Pod, ah leave us also a five-star rating and review, please, and thank you on the Podcatcher of your choice. But most specifically, if you are listening on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify, that goes a long way to helping us find other people like you who might want to listen to people like us. Yeah, dude. I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy. You can find me on, ah was it Instagram, Blue Sky, and what's the third one? Letterboxed at Chewie Walrus.
01:48:55
Speaker
um ah While i my author, authorial notes are not as vast as cats, I did write a book with my partner earlier this year called Check In, Check Out. You can find that on Amazon. I still have your copy, Tucker, don't worry about it. Can't fucking find mine, Steven. I bought that, what, like three months ago? You can't sign it and send it to a motherfucker. It takes two seconds to do both of those things. now I mean, if you live close to a post office, I'm sure it does. I guarantee you, you live closer to a post office than I do, Steven.
01:49:25
Speaker
That may or may not be true, but getting there is probably not as easy. I can't just drop shit in a mailbox. I don't have a mailbox to drop shit in. Well, I never. That's all right. You never will. um Yeah, you will. You just give it to me at Christmas. I might. I might wrap it as at this point. You might as well. yeah Yeah. Hi, here's a thing you bought for yourself.
01:49:48
Speaker
um and Merry Christmas. ah ah Brett, our absent co-host, who has returned to the fifth circle of hell. I don't know which which one's the fifth one. I don't remember. I don't have the Inferno here with me. I think it's Liars.
01:50:03
Speaker
Oh, well, he's not in that one. He's in the one the people who who work too much. That's that's a circle he's in. um He I think what did he say? He's he lurks on Instagram at sus underscore warlock. And he's definitely will update his letterbox letterbox that sus underscore warlock as well. Tucker, what about you? Where can we find you on social medias these days?
01:50:24
Speaker
Well, if I may add to the discussion about the Patreon and and my ah the ru ramblings about what are we watching, ah what I do plan to do, since I do have this monstrous list, I want to make this something interactive with the people who listen to our show, specifically the people who pay us money on Patreon.
01:50:43
Speaker
hey people who pay us money on patreon straight up what i'm about to do is at some point before we record the episode of what are we watching where we go through the and my entire list i'm going to post that list which may seem counterproductive but no here's the deal i post the list on the patreon you leave your comments about things that you have seen and and your opinions and such and uh you know i i that will be a part of it of each each thing if if people talk about these things i will include it in that episode and now if you're saying damn uh that sounds like fun but i'm just not a subscriber to the patreon well
01:51:27
Speaker
You got, look, sometimes you got to suck it up and tough it out and do the best you can. And the best you can do is give me $5 every month for like the rest of your life. please and thank Anyway, you can find me, uh, you can find me at ice 909 on straight up Instagram but and YouTube.
01:51:49
Speaker
that's That's a natural B in that one.
01:51:54
Speaker
That's nine oh nine. I see. And I in the number zero and the number nine. Also, of course, tuck mugs is still a thing and will forever be a thing. It's tuck underscore mugs. um Now, I did say that my social media manager was going to have my new mug up that I sent to him um about a week ago. I said it would be up.
01:52:15
Speaker
by the time the last episode dropped, but it's it. I keep checking and he made a liar of you. Yeah. But but and and that's fine. You know, as a social media manager, I'm sure I'm not his only client. He's got a lot of people. It's a lot of posts for a lot of people who have a lot more followers than I do. So I get that. I get it. I get it. Sometimes you're a little man. I'm terrible. But ah it's fine. It's not a big deal. And also.
01:52:41
Speaker
Also, I would like to, Kat, if you're interested, I don't know if you're aware of Tuckmugs, but it is my little corner of the internet where I show off my mug and glassware collection, because I'm way into mugs, and I'm way into pint glasses, and I'm way into shot glasses, and I'm way into all kinds of glasses. If I can drink out of it or eat soup out of it,
01:53:02
Speaker
You're into it. So what I'm saying is we do guest mugs. Like actually a good portion of the posts I do are guest mugs. And a lot of times I like to ask people that have guests that have been on the show to be a guest mug. So if you are willing and if you have a really rad mug that you want to show off, um I would like to invite you to do that and we can discuss it afterwards if you're interested.
01:53:25
Speaker
I would be totally interested. I already have, like, ideas of what I would show. Like, that's such a cool idea. Yeah, I'm into it. Count me in. Fantastic. You hear that? We're getting a new guest mug, you guys. As soon as Steven, I mean, my social media manager posts the last one I sent him two weeks ago. His name is also Steven? Wow, you know a lot of Stevens. that's wo That's wild. No, I just you guys are just so much alike. Oh, is that it? Confused. Yeah. OK.
01:53:55
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Yeah, right on. So that's that's where you can find me on stuff. That's a place where stuff is. And hey, how about that new theme song, Steven? Wow. Yeah, it's like the old one, but like better. It's a bop. It is the old one. It's the old one. But I just it made it different. Right. It's it's the same, but different. I figured it needed a ah remix remake remaster for the 200th episode.
01:54:25
Speaker
And it got it. um You did that all on your own too. Like we did not ask you to do it. You're just like, I guess I got to do this. And we're like, do you? And you're like, yep. Well, yeah. Well, cause you remember like in January, I was like, we should redo the theme song. Like it needs to be the same, but and we need to redo it. And I remember I was going to pay Jimmy to do it.
01:54:44
Speaker
But then like he he started it it started taking him a lot longer than he thought it was going to to put this record together, which is going to come out probably in January, which it's a summer record. So I don't know how that's going to work. But um he's been spending a lot of time on that. So he hasn't had time. And then like two weeks ah ago, I think Brett brought it up in the group chat and I was like, oh, shit, I can I do that in two weeks? I think I can do that in two weeks. So I did it in a night. Yeah.
01:55:14
Speaker
And it's really because self self punishment is kind of your thing. Also, it's really it's really easy because I had already written that song and I had a complete idea of exactly what I wanted to do in my head. So I just had to execute it like it's the it was the quickest and easiest I've ever recorded anything because part of my writing process is recording like I'll come up with an idea and I'll start recording and the idea evolves while I'm recording. I'm writing it while I'm recording in layers and layers and layers. But with this, I.
01:55:44
Speaker
I had a clear idea. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. So it took like six hours. Hell no. Done. Yeah. Hell yeah. It was fun. Good times. I think that's all we got. Is that all we got? I think that's all we got. That's all we got. Yeah. All right. Well, in that case, thank you all for joining us. This has been the episode on the Hellboys.
01:56:07
Speaker
um For all of us here at Disenfranchised, me, your host, Stephen Foxworthy, my co-host Tucker, the absent Brett Wright, and our very special guest, the amazing Cat Scully. Until next time, ah keep on keeping them on in hell, boy. I don't, I didn't know anything about that. That's all right. That's all I got. You say so. All right.