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206 - Of Unknown Origin (1983) (Straight Up 005)
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“Keep it up. Just keep it up. I’ve got friends in Jersey.”
We’re closing out our fifth annual Spooky-thon with a Straight Up, our quarterly foray into the favorite films of our own Tucker! This time, we’re covering a 1983 psychological horror film and, while we do, we disagree on this movie’s ending, our personal histories with actors Peter Weller and Maury Chaykin, and reminisce about sports drinks from the ‘90s!
We never said anything about rubber gloves. Or did we? Better check our social media and make sure:
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- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd.
- Check out Stephen’s first novel - Check In, Check Out - on Amazon, now available in paperback or ebook: https://amzn.to/44idk8y
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
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- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including bi-weekly episodes of What Are We Watching? at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
- Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website, buy/rent it through Amazon Prime, or watch it free with ads on Tubi!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Themes
00:00:53
Speaker
are she scurries? Hi friends, this is the disenfranchised podcast, a podcast all about those franchises of one, those films have fancied themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film, except for when it's not. And this is one of those times after recently completing our our recent episode of straight up on
00:01:20
Speaker
Damn, 30 seconds, okay. Fuck a duck, Stephen. Fuck a duck. No, thank you. What do I look like, Leah Thompson? Oh. Hey. We are back with another episode of Straight Up, a horror themed edition, as this one does end right at the end of Spookython. And what is Straight Up, you say? Well, perhaps I'd better hand that off to my co-host.
Exploring 'Of Unknown Origin' and Filmmaking
00:01:48
Speaker
Tucker. Tucker, explain to us the premise of your show. Straight up is straight up when ah there's five Thursdays in a month. And as you know, if you've heard this podcast before, ah we drop our episodes on Thursdays. So when there's an extra Thursday in the month. ah I get to just kind of go off format and talk about a movie that I love that I think is maybe under seen. Not necessarily underappreciated because some of them are stinkers that I just happen to love. But I'd say under seen because they I think they would scratch a certain itch for some people who maybe have not been exposed to them.
00:02:26
Speaker
yeah I just want to share these these little gems, these diamonds in the rough that I found over my years of combing the sail bins at mom and pop video stores, all the way to finding the lowest rated thing on 2B to watch.
00:02:44
Speaker
I try to find all the good stuff where you don't normally find it. And I found some rad shit. And that's what I want to do. oh and That's what straight up's all about. Sharing shit with people that I think is rad. I think the shit is rad and you're rad and all the people are rad. That's what straight up's about. It's about the people, Steven. It's about the people. Oh, and I'm Steven Foxworthy. Hi. But you never asked that again, Steven. No, I'll probably ask it again. Are you kidding me? I was fine.
00:03:13
Speaker
Are you trying to get kicked off the show? Because it's not going to happen. No, no, I need to cough. Oh, OK. I don't know how to cough. All right. Well, then, hey, we're in Tucker because I I did impose one restriction on you this time, which was that we needed the straight up for this month to be a horror film. And you are an acknowledged horror fan. You do like horror films.
00:03:39
Speaker
ah So what horror film, for those who decided to click on this without reading the episode title or description, ah what film have you selected for us tonight? Well, if you ask the director and by that, I mean, if you listen to the commentary on The Shout Blu-ray, he insists several times adamantly that it's not a horror film, but nah, dude, it straight up is. It is. We watched 1983s of Unknown Origin starring Peter Weller in his first leading role.
00:04:10
Speaker
Yes, 1983s of Unknown Origin, directed by the man who gave us Cobra, George P. Cosmatos. And Tombstone. And Tombstone. Come on. But we've got covered Tombstone. we've he said opbrah He was kind of a fixer after this, like he got hired on to movies that were maybe falling apart.
00:04:32
Speaker
I needed somebody to bring him back together and put him out. And I would say from the movies that I've seen that he's done that with First Blood Part II, Cobra, Tombstone, he's ah he's pretty good at it. Yeah, I will say Tombstone, the superior Wyatt Earp film from 1993. Sure. For sure. And not just because one has Kurt Russell and the other has Kevin Costner um in general.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah. Just in general. um But he also directed a future episode of this podcast Leviathan from 1989. Oh yeah. We're going to cover that at some point too. Oh, I can't wait. I saw that when I was a kid, but I haven't seen it since. I remember really enjoying it. It had like kind of a TV movie vibe. Okay. Well, you know what? there's another There's another straight up for next October. Maybe you slayed it in there. No, it's already on the schedule, man. it's You said it's on the screen you said it's already on the list. like it Yeah, there's there is one I go off format. There is one already scheduled for next October. But yeah, also not for nothing. The son of the director of this film ah directed stripp directed Mandy, dude. Everybody loves Mandy. That's a that's a big deal. People love that movie. She came and she gave without taking. Yeah. But you sent her away, Tucker. Yeah, well, you know,
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, I can think of one person who does not like Mandy. And that is a friend of the show, Mike Snudian, from the pod in the pendulum. Really? He is interesting. He is an avowed, unabashed, out loud and proud Mandy hater. OK. Does not like that movie. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. I saw it and thought it was really fucking weird.
00:06:19
Speaker
Look, I did not like it as much as most people who liked it, but I didn't like it. Jimmy fucking loves it. People love it. Like people who love it love it.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, and I get why and like I feel like if it had come out 15, 20 years ago, I'd be a much bigger fan of it. That makes sense like my sensibilities have changed and like kind of if it's not grandfathered in some shit, it's just a bit too much for me. I don't know. um I don't care. if It sounds like I'm becoming a pussy. Maybe I am like, I don't know, like whatever. I don't care. I'll own it. Yeah, you'll own it. um One thing I will say is that um I love Andrea Riceboro, and she's really good in that movie. Dude, yeah. Dude, yeah, I think everybody's really good in that movie. Yeah. ah But speaking of this movie, 1983's Of Unknown Origin, ah based on the novel The Visitor by Chauncey G. Parker III, and starring, as you mentioned, Peter Weller, the great Peter Weller, robocop, Mr. Robert Copp himself as Mr. Buckaroo Banzai. Buckaroo Banzai.
00:07:27
Speaker
ah Jennifer Dale, Lawrence Dane, Kenneth Walsh, the great Maury Chaikin. Fucking love that dude. ah Lewis Legrand, Shannon Tweed, and many others. Tucker, what a cast. I'll let you say it this time. Golly, Steven, what a picture. I love this movie. You really, really like it. I like it so much. And not for the reasons that I think the people who really get into this like it. I like this movie because I really like
00:08:01
Speaker
the way that it moves along, like the cinematography and the editing and the pacing all work together so well for me that it's, it's like one of those rides where you can just sit back and like relax and take it all in because they just kind of pull you along the whole thing. Like there's no point in this movie where I'm like, Oh, I need to pick up my phone or like, Oh, I should probably go pee or something.
00:08:28
Speaker
I'm locked in the whole time, even on scenes that you would think would be boring, like the office stuff, just the way it's shot. I love the themes of like the reflections. There's so many, so many shots or reflections, whether it's through a door or a mirror. There's so ah I just love how this movie looks. And I love the way it moves. And of course, I love Peter Weller.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I also love the macro lens or the micro lens they use for the rat. It makes it look so weird and like so much scarier. ah All those close to the rat. and Yeah. So, I mean, basically Moby Dick with a rat. Yeah. I mean, when you get right down to it, it's Moby Dick with a rat. Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
um for I will just say, this is the first time I have ever seen this movie. I had honestly, don't think ever heard of this movie until um until you suggested we put on it. And honestly, this was kind of a last minute addendum. This was within the past month that you you selected this one.
00:09:25
Speaker
Um, one thing I will say because I think it was the Cobra episode. Maybe didn't we talk about in the Cobra? I think we briefly talked about it. Maybe mentioned it, but this, this didn't get added to the list or straight up until like a month ago. Yeah, because you were like, there's a Halloween straight up. And I'm like, all right, give me two minutes and I'll find something. I just like got down on my knees and like looked at all my blue rays. I got to the O's and I was like, whoop, there it is.
00:09:54
Speaker
And yeah, there there then there it is. You held it. There it actually is. Hey, I love that cover, too, the family portrait and the cat with the rat scratch down it. Yes, I love also the juxtaposition of the opening credits of this film um because you don't you don't get that again until probably the third act. Like it goes hard with that music in the opening and you just see the windows of the brownstone. Also love that faded.
00:10:23
Speaker
golly, Duke. If I ever made a movie, it would probably look a lot like this movie because I love how much it looks. I believe that. Or how good it looks. um But I love that music during the credits and then just whoop. Oh, here we are. We're waking up. There's a tweet. They're in there. Introducing. when Introducing our first ever film. Yeah.
00:10:48
Speaker
Shannon Tweed right off the gate. um I think it's worth asking, ah how did you how did you come to this movie? Where did you discover this one? Obviously, I discovered it from you. But but how did you get to this one? How did how did we get here, Tucker?
00:11:03
Speaker
Well, do you straight up, Mimby, when um Netflix used to be a DVD mailing service? I do, in fact, Mimby that. Well, I was on my desktop computer sometime around 2005 or six. That tracks. And I sorted films ah starring Peter Weller on the net Netflix website. Oh, are you a fan of his?
00:11:31
Speaker
I've yeah, for a long time, actually. Yes.
Journey of a Cinephile
00:11:35
Speaker
What's we're going to I want to put a pin in Peter Weller. I want to come back to Peter Weller. Keep going. OK. And I saw this cover, a little little thumbnail, pixel thumbnail like this big. And I was like, oh, what's that? And like, there wasn't a description or anything. So I was like, put that on my list, on my queue, as they called it in those. Yes, the queue.
00:12:00
Speaker
And it came in my mailbox and I watched it and I've loved it pretty much ever since. And when Shout Factory put out this Blu-ray, I was very excited because there is a commentary on it and there are new interviews with the screenwriter and one of the producers.
00:12:24
Speaker
Um, and it does say a 2k scan from the inter positive, which I don't know what that is, but sometimes it sucks. This scan, sometimes it looks pretty. All right. It never looks great. Sometimes it looks pretty. All right. And sometimes it just looks like trash.
00:12:44
Speaker
So I'm hoping one day when like arrow or shout or somebody vinegar syndrome, if, if the universe really hates us puts this out in 4k, I'm hoping they get the original negative or some better source, right? and Whatever an inner positive is.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, that is I'm not complaining. It looks it looks better than the DVD that I saw most of the time. There are a few times where I'm like, oh, I'll bet the DVD look better than that, actually. But 90 percent of the time, it looks better than the DVD did. All right. And that's something I'm not so much complaining. I'm more saying when they do a 4K. Let's maybe find a different just maybe find a different source. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well.
00:13:36
Speaker
but um It's still available though. It's in print. Go buy it. If you like this movie, you can rent it on all the rental places streaming. I was going to say you can rent it for like three bucks on YouTube. Like that's how I saw it and had some, had some money in my Google wallet and was just like, Hey, why not? There it is. So through some, through, through three of my hard earned dollars down on that. And you know what?
00:13:59
Speaker
I watched it. This is a movie I watched. Warner Brothers, thanks you. Hopefully Peter Weller's residual check thanks you. Yeah, I i can I just tell you one of my favorite old school logos is that Warner brother is that Warner Brothers logo with just the three lines that make up the W lines and a dot. That's it. Fantastic.
00:14:20
Speaker
So fucking perfect. I love it. I watched the conversation, Francis Ford Coppola's conversation last weekend, and that's got that logo in it, too. And I just I fucking love that 70s 80s Warner Brothers logo, man. So good. such a That is probably my number one favorite logo of of ah of a film company, for sure. I'm partial to the Columbia logo myself, but I get what you mean. Yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker
I mean, I get it, man. there's the And there's some good logos out there. There's some iconic logos, but that's that's the one for me. And Warner Brothers has some really good ones too, but that's it. That's the one. For me, that's the one. Best combination of music and loco goes to Universal in the 90s though. I'm just going to say it. Yeah, you're probably right.
00:15:08
Speaker
You're probably right. ah Let me ask you a question, Tucker. And this this is a very serious question that I just kind of want to know the answer to. but who have We've talked about Peter Weller on this podcast a few times. Yeah. When did you first experience Peter Weller? And what was what has been when did when did you know you were a fan? Was it right away? did it Was it something you had to build toward?
00:15:33
Speaker
Like, give give me your give me your Weller history, because we first talked about him in the Buckaroo Banzai episode, we mentioned him ad infinitum in the Robocop remake episode. Like, what's your Weller history, man? Well, er,
00:15:49
Speaker
um I think I was was so dumb. I don't know why I fucking laughed at that. What the hell? Well, you're taking a drink. That's why I took the shot. If you hadn't been taking a drink, I wouldn't have even said it. I'm just trying to enjoy my old fashioned over here and you're just making it very difficult. No. My secret so is that instead of a sugar cube, I use maple syrup and I also add a little bit of Mezcal. So it gives it like a smoky flavor. Wow. Or as Roger Miller calls it, maple circle.
00:16:20
Speaker
Cheers. Yeah, yeah. um So Peter Weller, I first kind of knew. So I was a film fan when I was a teenager, probably from the time I was 14. I started getting into horror movies and and such and and kind of becoming a cinephile, a very focused ah genre focused cinephile. But I did I did go outside that box sometimes. But the first time that I really got into the behind the scenes stuff, like knowing who the actors and the directors and everyone was, and like getting movies just because a particular director directed it, or there was a specific cinematographer or something, was when I worked at Hollywood Video. I worked at Hollywood Video at 106th and Meridian in Carmel, across from the Meijer that's out there. ah Well, I mean, kind of caddy cornered to it.
00:17:21
Speaker
But anyway, there was this dude that worked there whose name was Joe. And we kind of bonded over some of the modern films that we enjoyed, like Clerks and stuff like that. In fact, we used to watch Clerks at work at night. And like if a customer would come in, we'd just pause it. Sure. And then like as soon as they left, we'd just turn it back on. And also, depending on how cool the person looked,
00:17:48
Speaker
Like if we thought the person could handle it, we'd just leave it on. There you go. And we were never wrong. That's a handy skill to have to be able to read someone that immediately. we were We were never wrong, but he got me into like really paying attention to the people behind the scenes in the film. And that's when I kind of started recognizing a lot of people that I was already a fan of, they kind of became people to me, which sounds weird, but like, uh,
00:18:17
Speaker
I mean, and they weren't just on some level, right? Yeah. Yeah. And ah I don't know. That's why I kind of became aware that I wanted to um watch films that were directed by the people who directed other films I liked. And I wanted to watch films who had specific actors in them. And so um that's kind of when I found out who he was. And I can't really.
00:18:43
Speaker
couldn't really tell you what films that it was that got me hip to him, but it was definitely Buckaroo Bonsai that made me become a fan, which was, as I said in the Buckaroo Bonsai episode, I came across way too fucking late in my life because it's a film I definitely would have enjoyed as a child as well. um So yeah, that's kind of how I became a Peter Weller fan. And then You know, he just started showing up in stuff. I'm going to have to go to his IMDB to sort of because I've got sick person brain right now to anyone who doesn't who can't figure out from the way I'm talking. I am. I'm very ill. So at this point, let's see at this point, I would have seen the writer, producer, OK, actor.
00:19:41
Speaker
I definitely would. Oh, I definitely would have seen Naked Lunch at that point. um That's a wild one. Well, I was in a wild shit and also like I got in on the Criterion Collection early. That's true. The Criterion version of Fear and Loathing is what got me hip to Criterion at all. I was like, what the fuck is this?
00:20:04
Speaker
Mm hmm. And well for me, it was what the fuck is this and why does it cost so much? Yes. And then when Naked Lunch came out, I was like, this just looks really weird. And so and back then you just if you just had to buy something, you know, or rent from the video store, but you had to find a video store that actually had old movies.
00:20:23
Speaker
and More than just the classics, quote unquote. right So it was a lot harder. You couldn't just like get on your streaming service or rent it somewhere streaming. It was a lot harder to really indulge yourself in entire filmography. Think about your 2020 watch of all those movies, Steven. How many of those would you have watched if streaming did not exist?
00:20:47
Speaker
Very few not even a third of them. I'm going to I'm going to tell you one thing right now. The movie Rampage, ah William Friedkin's Rampage, a movie I watched during 2020, is impossible to watch legally. That movie is literally, and pop I mean, I could probably buy a a VHS tape of it. But even that is out of print and costs insane amounts of money. Like that movie is impossible to watch legally.
00:21:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that was that was also an issue back then, too. There was a lot of stuff out of print. Like if you weren't if you weren't a cult classic or like a well beloved film of the past, you weren't getting multiple video releases. Your movie came out, came out on video. That's it.
00:21:35
Speaker
And that's why there was such an insane bootleg market that kind of thrived at like fan conventions, like Comic Cons and like Gen Con, Dragon Con, like all those conventions had, there was a huge bootleg market at those. That's how the Star Wars Holiday Special got so well circulated. Like some movies just did not exist. And so they had to be bootlegged for anyone to be able to watch them at all.
00:22:00
Speaker
Well, then you had stuff like ah TV movies that were very hard to get on physical media. Also, most of the time in the early days, direct to video meant rental only. Correct. So unless you're buying it used from a video store, you're not going to find it. You're not going to find it at Target, you know.
00:22:21
Speaker
And you'd get a lot of that stuff at the horror conventions and stuff, too, back in the day. My first copy of 1989's Dr. Caligari. ah Well, actually, not my first copy. My first digital copy was a DVD that I bought that was a VHS scan of a VHS I already admittedly had. But, you know, VHS, it deteriorates over time. So I wanted something that would be preserved that I could actually see after watching it 100 times, you know. A future a future episode of Straight Up, I'm sure.
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah, we got to build up to that one. That's another one where Brett demands an 11 on the weirdness scale that almost beat out. Hey. Twenty two minutes. Nice. It's it's extra fun when you do it to yourself. i I mean, it's it's significant to what I'm saying. So I have to. What am I going to do? Right. I mean, I could just say, oh, my God. Again, son of a beast, Stephen.
00:23:19
Speaker
Honestly, I think it's a little more fun to watch you get all riled up when I say it. That that is the most fun. The best is when Brett says it. That's the best. Yeah. That was a fun episode to edit. I'll tell you what. Yeah. Dr. Caligari will be here soon.
00:23:38
Speaker
Hopefully sometime in the next two years. I was going to say, we've got a good chunk of those straight ups schedule. In fact, we're, the next opening is, oh no, that's not even an opening anymore. Cause it's that the next opening is April 2026. Nice. Fantastic. That's great. That is great. Why were we talking about? Oh, you were saying, yeah. Anyway. Yeah.
00:24:07
Speaker
to market and the watching it and having to go to the library and get on the waiting list. Yeah. Oh God. To get a 10 year old VHS that you could barely see. I'm talking, I'm looking at you day of the dead. Oh my God. I'm looking at you. I waited three months for that to come to my library on a VHS that barely fucking played.
Film Analysis and Thematic Elements
00:24:30
Speaker
Oh man. Though there was a charm to those days. I tell you what, it was, it felt like a kind of a victory when you found a really good movie. Because like I said, you either had to buy it blind, which is what started this whole conversation. Finally, coming for full circle. You had to buy it blind or you had to rent it or somebody had to be like, oh, yo, that's good. And still you're like, well, I like it though. Yeah. Do I, do I trust this person's taste enough to actually go out and and commit time and money to this thing?
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's crapshoot back then. There's a lot of my lot of my early DVD collection full of shit that I just did not like because I bought it blind. There you go. And again, there was some diamonds in the rough, though, for sure. I'm like stuff like this, though, in a Netflix DVD delivery sense. Right. Stuff like ah Roman Coppola's CQ to name another. And I bought blindly because I was like, this is weird. Never heard of this. Buying it.
00:25:26
Speaker
And Jason Schwartzman in it. So that's probably what sold me. I was like, well, Jason Schwartzman. Okay. You do like Jason Schwartzman though. I do. And around that time I was way into Rushmore. So I was like, those, those Coppolas do love casting their family and shit.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, oh well that was right off the heels of Slackers as well, which ah not Richard Linklater's Slacker, that's a completely different film. I'm talking about the the gross out college sex comedy Slackers starring Devin Sawa, ah ah What's Her Nuts from that 70s show, ah Big Pete from The Adventures of Pete. I was gonna say, that's the one with Big Pete, yeah. And Jason Schwartzman as the most unhinged character in cinematic history.
00:26:07
Speaker
This movie is not good. It is not good. Some of the jokes are really good. This movie is not good. But Jason Schwartzman deserves multiple Oscars for that performance. Multiple. They need to create specific Oscars for that performance. OK, good to know. For most like cool Ethan and Slackers, it's Robert De Niro from fucking the one with the The native people, the Leo's in it. He does that weird face the whole time. Killer's the flower mood. Yeah. My favorite movie of last year. He does that face the whole time, though, is almost distracting. Almost didn't bug me. I mean, it worked for the performance. I'm not saying it was bad acting at all, but he stretched the imagination, but it just maybe was a little much sometimes for me. Fair enough. Anyway.
00:27:01
Speaker
Anyway, straight anyway let's hey Steven, do you think I'm thinking maybe are you thinking what I'm thinking about doing the plot right now? Is that what you're thinking? That we should not and keep talking about other stuff. If that's what you want to do. No, was that what you were thinking? Because no, I was thinking of doing the plot right now. Oh, okay. Well, in that case, let me didn't know I'm not thinking what you're thinking. But let me go ahead and get you're thinking it now.
00:27:27
Speaker
I mean, you inceptioned that thought into my head. As I suggested it to you. I will say two famous fans of this film, John Waters, the great filmmaker and... And Stephen King, dude. And Stephen King. Yeah. That tracks both of those tracks. Yeah, both really love this movie.
00:27:48
Speaker
um Well, let's do the plot in 60 seconds, the part of the show where we, at the behest of the Coin of Justice, do recount the plot of this film in 60 seconds or less. I've got the coin at the ready, Tucker. Go ahead and call it. I'm calling it heads. And it is heads, you son of a bitch.
00:28:09
Speaker
I would have been fine either way. I'm not bothered either way. Yeah, I had a feeling. This is your fucking movie and I got a call. But since, you know, technically I won the coin toss, I choose who does it. I'm still going to choose you because you seem so put out by it. I mean, I always have to do it, so I'm always put out by it. OK. Coin hates me. I don't know what I've done to offend the coin, but I've got 60 seconds on the official egg timer of the disenfranchised podcast.
00:28:38
Speaker
ah When you start talking I'll hit the button, dude um Bart Hughes lives in New York. He's a mild-mannered investment banker. um He's a Clark Kent, you might say. ah His family goes on vacation, and then he realizes there's a fucking rat in the house. And so he goes on this fucking tirade to try to kill the rat in ah in Captain Ahab-esque fashion. um he's He's calling, like, the repairman. He's calling exterminators. He's thirty seconds throwing shit. he's like ah
00:29:11
Speaker
jamming a copy of Moby Dick against the ceiling and just a bit of, uh, heavy handed over the top. And, you know, basically eventually gets to the point where he makes them the most bizarre weapon of all time. He gets like fucking bad dreams about his family getting murdered by this fucking rat. The cat dies for some reason. ten seconds And, uh, eventually he destroys his house, kills the rat.
00:29:38
Speaker
His family comes home immediately after, and he explains the damage by saying he had a party. Time. That's that's a lie that it took me a long time to warm up to.
00:29:50
Speaker
A long time. i did Yeah, kind of. i Tucker, I'm just going to be really honest with you. You didn't like this movie. I didn't like the ending of this movie. OK, all right. i and there's There's a lot I did not enjoy about this movie. um My partner is not a fan of animal violence, so the idea that this movie centers around someone trying to kill a rat. You saw the blurb, though. It says it. Even before the Humane Society made them do it, they were like, we wouldn't dream.
00:30:16
Speaker
Oh, I know. Harming and we would. How dare you? Basically, they say in that blurb. I know. And you can. I mean, the and I think that's kind of the beauty of the way the film is shot is it's shot in such all the shots of the router in such extreme close up. I love how it's shot. Yeah. That you you cannot. and there's There's no even like hint of the idea that harm would come to this animal because everything's done in such close up. And sometimes he's she's really cute.
00:30:46
Speaker
Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's kind of a cute rat. But then you see how big it is when it jumps on his back and you're like, yeah, that motherfucker is not cute anymore. Actually, I take it all back. And in those shots, it's not. This dude is three feet long, like 36 inch rat. Very not real. Like very obviously fake rat in those shots. But yeah, like.
00:31:10
Speaker
the idea that everything, like nothing works on this creature, but then you get to the end and I want him, I want there to be more of a loss for this guy. Like, I want there to be kind of an Ahab-esque reckoning for this character. I don't like the fact that it seems like he gets off scot-free at the end. Well, I mean, they do, they do build up through the entire film how much time he spent personally restoring.
00:31:35
Speaker
that house. So I think that might be kind of kind of what they tried to do with that because he destroys that fucking place. He at the end of it, it's flooding as he goes outside to meet his family. There are gallons of water flooding his house. Right. And I mean, I guess it is the 80s. So materialism is kind of at its height. This is a yuppie movie. It's very much a straight up yuppie movie. Yeah. Like all the main characters in this movie are fucking yuppies. Yeah, dude.
00:32:02
Speaker
And Maury Chaikin plays like the the the dirtiest, grimiest yuppie of them all. And I fucking love Tucker. I'm going to put a pin in it, but I'm going to come back to Maury Chaikin because I plus please love Maury Chaikin. I cannot get enough of that guy. That man is amazing. um Fucking my cousin Vinny. I'm sorry. Yes.
00:32:24
Speaker
I'm not fucking my cousin Vinny, I don't have a cousin Vinny, but the fucking film, my cousin Vinny, is amazing. du yeah um good everybody loves that movie how can you know It's a cable classic. It is, 100%.
00:32:36
Speaker
um but he um like usually I mean, because so but but the the fact that it's loss of material wealth. like And there's a moment where I think there's this film is going to have like actual human stakes. like Before I realized that the dream sequence where the kid is making cereal and bringing that poison into his cereal, where I'm like, holy shit, is this movie going to actually have stakes? And then, no, it's a dream.
00:33:00
Speaker
and i'm just i got pissed me off, not because I wanted that child to die, but because like then the movie would have had like some kind of, there would have been a consequence like a tangible human consequence of this obsession that is that is so driven him and conquered him beyond just like material loss. And that I think that's the part of it and I think if this movie had been made five to six years later,
00:33:30
Speaker
We would have gotten that. But because this is like the height of the Reagan era, like this is ah Reagan is elected in 80. So this is like coming up the end of Reagan's first term. Yeah. Like this is I mean, this is the height of Reagan era like materialism. And the fact that that's the main loss of the film, I think fucking sucks. Great double feature with American Psycho, by the way. Oh, for sure.
00:33:57
Speaker
And without the, you know, I'd love to see a cut of this movie without any shots of the rat until the third act. Correct. I would would make it an even better double feature with American Psycho, because is this guy fucking nuts? Yeah. Is this paired with all of like the reflections and everything that they do in ah like almost every shot, there's a reflection or you're looking through a window with the reflection on it.
00:34:22
Speaker
ah yeah But the rat stuff looks so cool though. I love the rat POV stuff. Like early on you get the rat POV stuff and that is cool. Where you've got like that camera running through running through the sewer pipes and shit. like that That looks awesome. It's like a slasher movie. That's that's yeah why I think if if it weren't done so well it would be a better movie without the rat stuff if it were left ambiguous but because it's done so well and because it's written by a guy who cut his teeth writing a slasher right like it makes complete fucking sense and like George I don't know what you're talking about dude there's so much about this movie that it's a horror movie I know you directed it
00:35:02
Speaker
I don't mean to ah R.I.P., he dead, so like i'm I'm talking to him in space or wherever he is, but... You got your Ouija board out, your seance in it up. But like look, that's it's dude, it's a horror movie, I'm sorry, it is.
00:35:16
Speaker
No, I wouldn't even say horror adjacent. It's a straight up monster movie. It is. It's a slasher movie and a monster movie. And i mean it's it's very reminiscent of something like Jaws, where there's this kind of central animalistic antagonist that the whole movie is about. And it's kind of ruining everything like it's Jaws meets Moby Dick, honestly, with a rat.
00:35:42
Speaker
And it's ah the director ah says several times in the commentary that Jaws was a huge influence on him, especially when when revealing and how much to show.
00:35:53
Speaker
of the antagonist at certain times. As you noticed in the film, and evident like at first, like you'll just see a shadow of him and then like maybe you'll see a close up of a foot and like you see more and more of him as the film goes on. And then by the end, he's jumping on the motherfucker. Right. And even then it's very obscure. You never really like get a still shot on this motherfucker like the full thing. Right.
00:36:15
Speaker
And that's why I love it. It's so ambiguous, which makes it so much scarier, I think, in the wider shots because you see him close up, but you don't really have much of an idea how big he is. And even in those quick times, you see him on Peter Weller's back. There's not there's not enough time. Like your imagination is filling in so many blanks and making it so much scarier than it actually is. I like to do that. You do. I really do. You really do. Yeah. I'm a big fan of my imagination.
00:36:45
Speaker
That's why I like people say the books better than the movie. Of course, it's better than every book is going to be better than the movie because your your imagination is tailored to you. You're going to make the best version of that in your head for you. Exactly. Exactly. And then that's kind of always what it is. But by the same token, like there's there's the that rule of film, which is show don't tell.
00:37:09
Speaker
And at some point, even ah but but again, yeah I think that's where this that's that is a success of this film, is at the end of the day, for all of the like for all the like hints at it and the the the size of it and the the terrors that it does, it's a rat. It's an animal. And the fact that we see it shows us that it is there's nothing special about it outside of its size.
00:37:34
Speaker
It's a rat. Yes, but they feed your imagination this whole movie, not just with the small little visual cues, right but with the research that whole dinner scene where he's talking about all this horrific shit that rats have done and survived. And he's like the fucking plague wiped out a third of the earth, like not bombs, not guns, fucking rats.
00:37:56
Speaker
Which, by the way, a great dinner party conversation that is instigated there. Well, they're eating their mini hens or whatever the fuck they're eating, rich people. Cornish game hens. Yeah, there you go. Cornish game hens. Yeah. And just the reactions of everyone at that table are so perfect. Yeah. Fucking Maury Chakin just eating in that movie, both physically and literally.
00:38:17
Speaker
Like, but at the fiurly i'm drunk pat up at the time of the filming of this film, all everything that he says in this movie was considered to be fact. Now there are some things that have been proven false specifically that rats have no known origin.
00:38:36
Speaker
Right at the time, like the when they were writing this movie, they looked in the dictionary and on rat in the description, it said of unknown origin. And they were like, that's spooky. We don't know where those motherfuckers come from. It's 1980. And we don't know where these motherfuckers come from. Let's make that the title of the movie. Like they come what came over on a boat from Iceland or whatever. But like where they come from before that, like who knows?
00:39:00
Speaker
Who knows? Like, of course, now, like we've figured that kind of stuff out with like computers and shit because computers are rad. But yeah, I love how they build that up because it when you see so little of the rat in action, um having all of that in your head the entire time just builds up the threat.
00:39:25
Speaker
and and just the unease. Every time he sits down in that house, I'm like, motherfucker, get up on the counter or something. like Right, right. Have you seen this motherfucker? You are telling me that he's gonna kill you. Have you seen a movie before? Have you seen movies? He said the hammock of that motherfucker gets the ceiling? Damn.
00:39:47
Speaker
Damn. This time it's personal. This time it is personal. Didn't start out that way. Nope. But once once he accidentally, mind you, dumped her babies down that grate.
00:40:02
Speaker
That's when it became personal. Absolutely. And she did it like she scared him and that's why he dropped him. Like he wasn't trying to. I mean, he probably would have tried to get rid of them yeah in some way or another. But what happened to them was not something that he intentionally did. Right. Again, I i feel like it wouldn't have gone any better.
00:40:23
Speaker
But there's that that thing of an animal when they're young is, ah is attacked or threatened or they feel that they're being placed in a threatening situation. They will attack like that's why they say don't mess with bear cubs. Like if you see a bear cubs, just back off. Because the mom's number are baby animals. Right.
00:40:43
Speaker
do not fuck with them if they're wild. No, no, do not fuck with wild baby animals. That is the official stance of the disenfranchised podcast. We stand by fuck with wild baby animals. We stand by it. We do. um But no, that's that's 100% like it. It's and and And that, yeah, you're right. And then it becomes this kind of targeted attack. And it's that that classic man versus nature conflict that you have that kind of builds throughout the movie. But again, I wish it went somewhere.
00:41:20
Speaker
I wish there were better better better stakes for this movie. I will admit that the loss of his job, the loss of his house. Well, and
00:41:30
Speaker
I think it's pretty ambiguous whether he actually loses his job or not, but I love that his boss is surprisingly cool. Like his boss is like, yeah, he's obviously going through some shit. We can give him a little bit more time on this. No big deal. And so a secretary comes to tell him and he's like, I don't, I don't care. I'm, I have to do this right now. Fuck off, please. Kindly fuck off.
00:41:59
Speaker
Leave us alone, he says, yells from the house. Yeah, God, what a what a fucking weirdo. I love that scene to where he's completely snapped and he puts his weapon together and his his his neighbor, superintendent friend, Cletus, he comes down and he just stands there like watches and puts us together and then he walks up to him.
00:42:21
Speaker
And Cletus just kind of turns and goes up the stairs. He's like, OK, yep, nope, OK, you're OK. I'm just going to leave. No big deal. You guys like holds it up and like, hey, see what I made? And Cletus is like, fuck this. I'm out. i I am so far out of here. I love that character, too. I like. Yeah, I don't know that actor like that's an actor I'm not super familiar with. Lewis Del Grande or Del Grande. Probably a character actor. I mean, it.
00:42:51
Speaker
Oh, oh, he's... You know who he is? Who he is. he's He is the guy from Scanners. Oh, really? The guy who gets his head blown up. That is him, yeah. That's the guy, yeah. I just put that together looking at his IMDb page. Yeah, that's the guy. But yeah, that's the that's the guy. um But he did didn't really do anything like super big.
00:43:20
Speaker
Uh, outside of that, really, uh, sadly, he's in happy birthday to me, uh, of unknown origin. Uh, does a lot of TV movies. He's in Cadillac girls, dude. Yeah. Um, you know, various episodes of various shows. Um, but, uh, it looks like he might still be around. Hard to say his IMDB page doesn't have a death date, so he might, might still be around, but hasn't really done anything since 2016.
00:43:50
Speaker
no i like him as this character though yeah dude he's fun he he adds a kind of a juxtaposition to um While not demeaning different social classes, that's what I like about it is that he and Peter Weller definitely speak to each other like their peers. And he's very blue collar and Peter Weller's very white collar. Right. I appreciate their their little bit of a relationship they have there because it is inferred when he first shows up that they do know each other a bit, at least. Right. Like he helps him out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they say he owns the the place right next door. So
00:44:28
Speaker
But but Weller, he's not Weller's first call and would not be Weller's first call on a normal day. And that's part of the issue. But I think his willingness to kind of what's the word indulge his um kind of obsession with this rat, I think is what brings them together ultimately. Yeah. And then Cleat ends up noping out at the end.
00:44:54
Speaker
As he should, he starts that fire. He really does because Peter Wallace, like, hey, rats or something. No, he doesn't even say rats. He's just telling him what's happening in his house. And homeboys like, you sure i've got a rat and like, you got to get that motherfucker because they start breeding and like he fills his head with all these ideas. And that's what he stokes. That fire starts an obsession. And then at the end, he's like, what have I done about what have I wrought?
00:45:19
Speaker
That's 100% what it is. What have I wrought? And you done you done messed up, A.A. Ron, is ultimately what it comes down to. um Let's let's do it. Let's talk Morrie Chacon. Let's do it. I'm into it. One of my favorite character actors. I love that guy plays a character named Dan Errol in this film, a a coworker.
00:45:44
Speaker
of Bart of Peter Wellers and Kenneth Walsh in this movie and basically just kind of exists to talk shit. Yeah. And but he is. God, he's one of the greats like he's one of those like I see him and I'm immediately interested and I think it took me a while.
00:46:04
Speaker
to like clock him and recognize him because he is so, he plays such a wide variety of characters. Like he can play like these really scuzzy people like he plays kind of a bumpkin in um My Cousin Vinny.
00:46:22
Speaker
But and he's ah he's a gangster in Twins. And I think I remember talking about my love for Morichakin in the Twins episode. He plays a a ah union general or major in Dances with Wolves, like who's going insane. um Like he's just got these roles where he plays someone really Interesting, if not memorable, he's in double double future episode of this podcast, Devil in a Blue Dress. Future episode of this podcast, Cutthroat Island. When I see this movie, I specifically, though I've seen some other films that he's in, um the thing he stood out the most in that I've seen since ah know of unknown origin is the pilot episode of the sci-fi original series, Eureka. He was the original sheriff. Before Sheriff Carter took over.
00:47:15
Speaker
Oh, I would have probably actually watched Eureka had he stuck around. That's a good show, Steven. That's what I've heard. That's so good. But Maury Chaikin, though, is the man. He's in fucking Mouse Hunt. yeah um The Mask of Zorro, he's the prison warden in The Mask of Zorro. Maybe the first thing I ever would have seen him in.
00:47:37
Speaker
Both of those movies are really good, I think. A lot of people don't like the second one, but I think both of Zora movies are real, real fucking good. I haven't seen the second one in so long. Honestly, I haven't seen either of them in so long. but yeah um Entrapment, the the Catherine Zeta Jones, Sean Connery. Sean Connery. Sean Connery. And then in the early aughts, he takes on the role of Nero Wolf in the TV show and Nero Wolf mystery. Just 27 episodes is Nero Wolf, who's this great character who just like solves mysteries while like sitting at a table eating shit and like has people like read him like the specifics and then he just solves the mystery like right in front of them like fucking great like again he can play these highbrow and lowbrow characters with this kind of effortless ease now of course he is rip gone but not forgotten
00:48:28
Speaker
Um, but yeah, and no more taken one of the grades I fucking love and was so excited to see his name in the credits. And then really bummed when he had like almost nothing to do with this movie. and Yeah. He was a side character in the side plot. Right. So just not, not given a whole lot to do, but he he has, he has a better career later in life. So he serves his purpose in this film. I will tell you that. And he does so very well. Yes, he do.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah, who is big old cigars.
00:49:03
Speaker
Yes. This movie was shot in Montreal, Steven. It was. You're right. Not Toronto, not Toronto. For some reason, I thought it was Toronto. And I'm actually I didn't do it this time, but last time I listened to the commentary, I went on Google Maps and did a street view and it's still there. I believe it.
00:49:24
Speaker
yeah It's such a cool facade, like the the facade of the building, it's so unlike anything you would expect to see in a metropolitan area. And in that respect, it kind of stands out like a sore thumb.
00:49:37
Speaker
I like that about it though. I do too. I think it really works well for the film and you get the impression that this is something, this is like a house he sought out. um I think you said it was like a a mental institution at the time, is that correct? It was ah it was a rehab center. that That was what it was, yes. When they location scouted it, it was a drug rehab center. So they weren't able to use the interior, but they actually had like a 70,000 square foot um set that they built, not only of the apartment, but all the stuff that the rat went through. Like the actual shots of the rat are all micro lens, but all the POV rat stuff.
00:50:20
Speaker
like going through the the studs in the wall and the little tunnels and everything everything that's like in the wall is all just whatever the opposite of miniatures is they built it big enough so like a whole camera rig could get through it and then pretended it was from the POV of the rat. I mean that makes sense. Yeah so you had like It's, it's weird knowing that and seeing the movie and you squint and try to like, be like, that's big, but it doesn't look big. Like they did a really good job of shooting this. So I believe that it's like a pinhole camera or something, you know? Right. And that would make more sense in that, in that time, but no, it, it works really well. I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
And no, I love all that POV shit. I think that works so well. And again, that's very reminiscent of Jaws. It's where I'm kind of like, this is Moby Dick meets Jaws with a rat. Like it it kind of all clicked for me in that moment. And then he's slamming Moby Dick against the ceiling. And I was like.
00:51:21
Speaker
Is that a little too on the nose? Is that a little too like right there? Maybe based ah based on ah both the director and Peter Weller's reaction in the commentary ah to that part. That was perfect. Purposely, purposefully that on the nose. OK. Kind of as a silly joke. I mean, sure. It it. You got the old man on the sea on TV as well.
00:51:45
Speaker
Right. But again, you see things like that, and you almost want there to be an ending. And again, I keep coming back to this, but an ending that severe, where that that is reminiscent of that beyond just, Oh, you know, it fucked up my house.
00:52:01
Speaker
I will admit that the ending is um it's very well, you haven't seen idle hands. Never mind, Stephen. Forget I said that. It's the one the one at one episode, one movie we've covered for this podcast that I have not watched. Oh, so good. But because I was in a hospital bed when that episode was recorded. and The build up. The ending of this movie does not justify the build up. I will admit that as much as I love this movie,
00:52:32
Speaker
It just kind of fizzles out at the end. And that, I think, is what kept it from being rated higher for me. And I'll get to my rating later in the episode, but like that's what kept it from it it really squelched and squashed a lot of my what would have been enjoyment of this movie for me. And it it left me feeling kind of kind of empty at the end. I was just kind of like, so what the fuck? What? Guess he had a party.
00:53:04
Speaker
Cause that's it. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Cool. I guess good for you. I think for me, um, I recognize that the ending is a little milk toast, I guess, if you will. yeah Um, but I'm immediately just flat for me. I don't know. I'm immediately distracted by that negative aspect when he comes out the door and his family's there.
00:53:30
Speaker
Uh, and just once again, my imagination goes wild as the credits are rolling. Like how ah he said he had a party, but you know, that's not the last he had to say on that subject. Like he had to give, he had to tell him what happened. I would love to hear that. Right.
00:53:48
Speaker
It's it's the ah the Kevin. What did you do to my room at the end of home alone? Yes. Right. Yes, indeed. It's the the notion that, oh, he don't have to explain that he's going to have to account for himself. Got some straight up explaining to do. That's it. Lucy got some explaining to do. Lucille, girl, girl, you got some explaining to do. There's some explaining. Shawty done. You got to be the one to do it, I'm afraid.
00:54:16
Speaker
yeah Uh, no, I, I will admit that the ending is definitely lackluster, but for me, it does not. It doesn't, I get to where it kind of ruins all the goodwill that this film has sowed for you, Steven. I totally understand that because that happens. That's happened for me on other films for sure. But with this film, um, there's so much more that I like about it that it's barely an issue for me, but I do, I definitely know what you're talking about and that is valid and I straight up respect it. Yeah.
00:54:48
Speaker
I'm looking at his ah ah his IMDb page right now. Morey Chaikin died on his birthday. Died on his 61st birthday. Yeah, well, it'd be like that sometimes. The only other person I can think of that that happened to is Shakespeare.
00:55:03
Speaker
I'm sure it's happened to other people. I'm sure it has too, but that's the only one I can think of, Tucker. Gotcha. Copy that. Copy that. Gotcha. Sorry.
00:55:14
Speaker
Oh, no, my head's cold. I couldn't, I couldn't figure out if I was having the chills or it was a hot flash. I'm still not sure, but we'll figure it out. Whatever. Just take a shot. Oh, that's not a bad idea. I got my long Undie pants shirt on and I'm wearing my long Undie pants because I can handle, like when I'm sick, I can handle hot flashes, but the chills. Fuck you. Like I'm, I'm, I'm never more uncomfortable than I am when I have the chills when I'm sick.
00:55:44
Speaker
I'm such a wimp I can't handle either, so I'm like constantly taking things off and putting things back on. it's it's It's awful. Oh my god. I need simultaneously more and less blankets.
00:56:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's me what I'm saying. That was me last night. It was either no blankets or I'm freezing my dick off. Yep, ah again, again, your poor dick just falling off constantly, coughing it off, freezing it off. King missile, anybody? Just can't keep that damn thing on, can you? I can't. I'm sorry. I am going to have a shot of whiskey, though.
00:56:27
Speaker
Good. I hope you do. I want you to. That's why I told you to do it. Because you know what? A lot of people drink. What's that called? When they're sick, they drink a hot toddy. Hot toddy. I fucking love a hot toddy. And that has whiskey in it. It does. And I'm sure whiskey is probably the healthiest part of it. So that's why I'm just going directly to the whiskey. It's whiskey, water, lemon juice and honey.
00:56:47
Speaker
Like hot water. And it's fantastic. And it's fucking great. Honestly, I was cold during a podcast a couple of weeks ago and I just fucking made me one of those. I wasn't sick or anything. I just was cold. And so I made a hot toddy and holy shit. um Yes, that was great. I loved it.
00:57:05
Speaker
So if something makes you feel better when you're sick, imagine how good you'll feel when you're not sick and you drink. I don't know why we save certain foods for when we're sick, like hot toddies and chicken noodle. They're great. fucking ga I can't do Gatorade anymore. that The sodium is too high, but yeah. I can't drink Gatorade without ah like coming to mind, like being sick.
00:57:31
Speaker
Powerade, fine. Do you remember All Sport, Steven? All Sport, the game got too easy. All Sport was a carbonated sports drink. I remember, drink I remember. Came in a glass bottle, and actually so did Gatorade in those days. Yeah. Glass bottle's the Gatorade. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I remember. I absolutely remember, man. Much more recyclable than plastic glasses. Yep.
00:57:56
Speaker
And not made from fossil fuels. So there's that here is that. I remember when I was a kid, um, we would get, uh, the glass bottles of Pepsi and like the six packs. And every time we would go to the grocery store, we would bring a rack of those back and just put them on a little roller. Bring back a rack.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah. And they would, it wasn't even a recycling program. Those went directly back to the local, the regional bottler. They cleaned them and put more fucking Pepsi in them and sent them on their way. And guess what? There wasn't a bunch of plastic in the ocean back then either. Just say it. Just say it. Now there were other forms of pollution that were running rampant in those days, but. Correct. As far as plastic goes. Yeah. As far as plastic goes, it wasn't so bad.
00:58:47
Speaker
ah But anyway, of unknown origin, Steven, I'm sorry that the hand and ending kind of ruins
Film Conclusion and Viewer Impact
00:58:52
Speaker
it for you. thats That's sad news, but I'm glad you enjoyed the parts that you did. I did. And I mean, i I I'm I'm kind of middling on this movie spoilers for my Ray King later. um But I can I can see why people enjoy it. um Obviously, that I had some other reasons to to not enjoy it as well, which I spoke on briefly earlier. um But yeah, and so it's sexist. I yes, ah but also it was the 80s and everyone was. Yeah, and it's it's not. so
00:59:24
Speaker
Not for nothing, but yes. It's not sexist in a way to where you'll be like, holy fuck, that's sexist. It's more like, oh, damn, that's kind of sexist. Kind of. Well, sign of the times, I guess. Yeah, I mean. yeah
00:59:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, man. Dude, yeah, that's how it was in those days. I loved I want to share a little bit of trivia that I learned about this film from the commentary. Is it the reason that his secretary takes off her shoes when she comes into the house? I read this on my, yeah. Because she could not stand to have the fucking heels on anymore. Yeah. She said, I'm yeah i'm making this part of it and you're not going to say anything. This is how we're doing it. And every foot fetishist in the world went, yeah. Okay. Yes. We are on board. 100%.
01:00:22
Speaker
Yes, please please. I love I love the pan up to him sitting on those steps to in the scully cap. And he's got the he's just all dressed in black. and He's got like the the cleats on. Just an unhinged man. Yeah, unmoored from reality. Like and and again, like it had it built to something. Yeah, I don't know. I'm there needed to be one fatality in this movie. Just give me one.
01:00:51
Speaker
Could have been cleat, could have been the secretary, could have been the kid. I mean, I understand, but, but like, give me like a fatality. Give me some fucking stakes, man. I mean, you've got, you've got the cat and as sad as that is and upset, as upsetting as it is. It's very upsetting. Though it's made less upsetting to me because of how kind of awful and unrealistic the dead cat looks.
01:01:21
Speaker
But my imagination up to that point, I love the way that shot, too, because they don't show anything. Right. They don't show anything. They show you right up to the meeting and the aftermath, which I thought was brilliant. He's pouring milk and it gets me every fucking time. I'm like, oh, i'm oh, shit. It's so yeah fucking gross.
01:01:41
Speaker
But I love the shots leading up to that, those close ups of like the cat in the profile. And it's just so beautifully shot. And it is almost like, it is almost like a kind of thing. Like where you've got, they do that several times around the cat in the background. Like, yeah.
01:02:01
Speaker
They do that a lot with the rat, not just with the cat. um Basically anytime that you see him like crawling on something, it's almost like a split shot. right And I wonder if sometimes it's meant to look like a split shot and if other times it's meant to liken the scene with the cat, it's supposed to be a perspective shot.
01:02:19
Speaker
right
01:02:23
Speaker
Ambiguous cinematography, I'm a big fan of it, big fan. Again, there there are things there are a lot of things that are really that that make this film very dynamic and a very interesting. But then again, i I can't I just can't get past the ending. I'm sorry. I hate to get it eating that drum. I know I know I will stop. But yeah, it it really does just kind of deflate the whole experience for me, I'm afraid. and Yeah, that's too bad. It is. It is. I wanted to love this movie as much as you did. If it's if it's any consolation to you, Stephen, according to the director, of this film, the main point of this film was to break this man down psychologically, turn him into like a primal being sort of man versus beast sort of thing. Right. And I don't know if they were approaching it.
01:03:15
Speaker
I don't know if they were approaching it in a way to where they needed to be that kind of stakes, but I understand your desire for that. Right. think But I but I don't think in that regard, then I don't think the film is overall successful in in getting to that point, because again, the stakes are so.
01:03:34
Speaker
Well, and and for me, the the fantasies that he has about the the birthday party and them coming home, To me, that shows me how bad that can be. Again, it puts it in my imagination. It doesn't have to actually happen. like Just thinking about what's going to happen. like I don't want to actually see that happen. so like For me, i'm glad I'm glad everybody comes out alive except the cat, RIP.
01:04:01
Speaker
Right. But then at no point does that alter his behavior. Like you would you would expect that, oh, I've had these terrible dreams about what this obsession is going to do to me. At no point does he stop. And so you I want to see him carry that through to its tragic conclusion.
01:04:18
Speaker
Well, no, I think the film is pointing us in that direction. And the fact that it doesn't give us that that climax, it doesn't give us that, for for lack of a better word, kind of orgasmic moment, like where we reach that moment where everything kind of comes to a head. And you you witness him doing the horrible thing that he's been fearing he's going to do the whole time. It I don't know, it's kind of blue ball, kind of blue balls for me.
01:04:44
Speaker
I understand that perspective, but I see it a little differently. I see it as a a movie of of deadlines. like he has to Because of these dreams that he's having of what could happen to his kid and wife if they get home while this rat is still in the house, I feel like that motivates him even more.
01:05:02
Speaker
to get this done. It drives him. He's he's got his work deadline and then he's got I got to kill his motherfucking rat before my kid gets home and something happens to him deadline. He only hits one of them. And honestly, I think it might be the wrong one. oh Well, yeah, well, I don't know, man, I do think that he kind of gave up on the exterminator a little too quick. I mean, you could have just like went to the place and given them the check and said, sorry, right. Take care of this motherfucker because holy shit.
01:05:32
Speaker
or, you know, leave it outside the apartment or like leave it in an envelope, like under the mat outside or something. But Steven, then you wouldn't have a movie. Then the movie couldn't happen. It'd be a half hour long. What's that? It's a really ah a really good episode of television is what that is.
01:05:53
Speaker
Yeah. Hmm. I think this is um the perfect film for Peter Weller to have his first starring role in because everything that's outside of the basically everything that's in the house is just him. He's got to do some very castaway kind of acting. He's just acting with himself and 90 percent of this movie. Right.
01:06:19
Speaker
And he's really good at it. Like that's what, that's what makes this character so empathetic because he's, he's not a bad person. He's not a good person. He's kind of, he's, he's all right. I guess i mean he kind of just anchor he can't be a good person. Yeah, he's kind of a shithead, but he's not like a terrible fucking person, but still like he's not a character that I identify with in any way. No. But it's when you get those when you get those scenes with him by himself and he's talking to himself, that's when you can empathize because you're like, if I were in that such such a situation and it were just me, I would probably be having full dialogues with myself about this shit. right And just all that stuff that he does by himself is just so realistic and relatable that the fact that the character isn't that great of a person, ah he's still relatable. And I think that's that's difficult to pull off in any situation.
01:07:10
Speaker
We definitely this movie definitely give us a good look at his range as an actor, ah which is nice. and And I texted you this last night as I was watching the movie, like in another universe, this feels like a Robocop origin story, like a man driven to obsession by a rat. Something bad happens to him and he gets reconstructed as a fucking robot. He would be the X Terminator. There it is.
01:07:40
Speaker
Pew pew pew. Dead or alive, you're getting in the rat trap. Like, yeah. And of course, his very next theatrically released film, Tucker, do you know this? You heard about this? um What is it? What is it? The Adventures of Buckaroo Bonsai across the eighth dimension. Yeah, I saw this movie and they were like, yeah, this guy can play very understated. This guy can play half Japanese. I mean, understated. Yes.
01:08:07
Speaker
He could play a jack of all trades. A modern day Renaissance man. If you will. Much like, much like Pudy Tang. Modern day Renaissance man. That's a good double feature right there. I tell you what, you're going to want to watch Pudy Tang first though. Pudy don't need words. Pudy don't even need music.
01:08:29
Speaker
Yeah. Have you seen this? Did I show you this? My birthday gift. You did. You showed us that on the Disson 5 Chised episode that we recorded for Patreon, patreon dot.com slash Disson 5 Chised. The great irony is that the thing you announced on that episode didn't actually happen. It is going to happen on the date of the release of this episode. Yeah. That's the great irony there. That is the great irony. Watch my Instagram.
01:08:58
Speaker
I'll probably post something. And also check out that episode, Dis and Five Chives, where we rank our favorite Ghostbusters ah films. I will tell you some surprise. I was thrown for a fucking loop. You guys fucking ambushed me. How fucking dare you? What are you talking about? I thought we had fun. Exactly what I'm talking about. We quoted it a lot. No, we did have fun, but you guys fucking ambushed me.
01:09:28
Speaker
No, I felt like I did a good job moderating. I was able to I was able to relate with with both, but I was able to stay right there in the middle so that you all didn't kill each other. There was no danger of that happening, but I was the calm little center of universe, Stephen. Hanging.
01:09:53
Speaker
That's me hey anyway. Anyway.
01:09:59
Speaker
of Unknown Origin. What else you gotta say, Tucker? um I think that's my piece on this movie. I really like this movie. I like everything about this movie, I think, ah even though I will admit I understand why the ending does not work for some.
01:10:18
Speaker
And why that ending not working kind of ruins the rest of the film. I get that, but that is not my specific, my personal perspective. And I happen to love every single thing about this movie. And, uh, it's, it's one I watch pretty often. I'd say maybe every three to six months.
01:10:44
Speaker
I'll watch it, which is I'm glad that I have the Blu-ray now so I can do that. I've only had this for about two years. So it has gotten some heavy rotation though in those two years. It's really good. um I think for a $3 rental, ah whether you think you're gonna agree with me or Steven, it's worth $3.
01:11:10
Speaker
It is it's good i will say stuff about it. Like it's worth seeing whether you end up liking it or not. It's an experience that I don't think that you will forget. It's a very unique film stands out for me, especially in that era of what was being done with horror and thrillers and action films and, um, monster movies and stuff like that. And creepy crawlies. And it's a nice little outlier, just a quiet little.
01:11:38
Speaker
Quiet little dude goes insane trying to defend his house movie. Plot simple as fuck. Who cares? Just watch Peter Weller go gradually more and more obsessed and insane. Yeah. Absolutely. A tour de force performance, if you will. It's it's a good first performance, for sure.
01:12:01
Speaker
I mean, he was in other stuff. This was just his first leading performance. sure um You know what I mean. You know, yeah. I'm just clarifying for the listeners. Just sure, sure, for sure, sure, sure, sure. Oh, I'm working on trying to do some. Some conversion here, but Google is not cooperating me. What are you converting? Canadian Canadian dollars from 1983 to American dollars from 1983.
01:12:30
Speaker
Oh, because they had that little pre-release in Canadian. Correct. And the the film's budget is listed on... on Wikipedia in Canadian dollars. Oh, boo. And you've got inflation and exchange rate change or fluctuations. So the box office is listed in Canadian dollars ah or the box office is listed in American dollars, but the budget is in Canadian. Yeah, dude. So I mean, if we can if we can assume the exchange rate is lower for Canadian than American,
01:13:10
Speaker
Then we can kind of give an idea. Canadian stuff is more expensive. Oh, is that. Historically, historically. Yeah. You ever looked at the back of a comic book? It's like US 199 Canada 350. Oh, yeah I mean, yeah. um Let me see here.
01:13:32
Speaker
and see all of them don't like Most of them have like the British Pound, or Yen, or like the Franks, or Marx, but they don't have the Canadian exchange rate in 1983. Most that you just mentioned replaced by the Euro. Correct. Correct. It was funny when I when i was an exchange student.
01:13:53
Speaker
In Germany, it was Marx. And then I was there like two years later as a resident of Germany. And it was euros. Right. Just that quickly. It all, all changed. It all changes. It all changes so quickly. Yeah, dude.
1983 Film Industry Insights
01:14:09
Speaker
Dude. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I mean, yeah, I could, I could do the exchange rate for today, but that doesn't really help me at all.
01:14:19
Speaker
oh Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on. so a canadian doing it In 83, one American dollar or one Canadian dollars worth 81 American cents.
01:14:31
Speaker
so That's about right. Hang on. let me Let me do some quick math here. and i like this I'm going to figure this out. The two years I was in Germany, the exchange rate stayed pretty steady steady at about 87 cents.
01:14:47
Speaker
All right, $0.87 to the one euro. So the budget of this film and American currency is $3.24 three point two four million dollars give or take. The movie releases on
01:15:04
Speaker
November 25th, 1983, just in time for my very first Thanksgiving as a human being on this planet. Hooray! It opens at number 17 at the box office. The lowest new opener of the week.
01:15:20
Speaker
um and it on a budget of 4 million Canadian or 3.25 American million um makes a domestic box office budget of 1.08 million so not not ah Not a good performer at the box office. The week it comes out, in its second weekend up from number three the week before, a little movie filmed in our home state of Indiana, Tucker, called A Christmas Story, is number one at the box office that weekend.
01:15:57
Speaker
ah Second place, brand new at the box office, the eventual Oscar winner for 1983. A little movie by James L. Brooks called Terms of Endearment. A movie I own but have not seen. wow In third place, a film by Lawrence Kasdan called The Big Chill.
01:16:20
Speaker
Oh, oh, okay. You just could casually drop the big chill there, Steven. Yeah. Just some movie called the big chill moving on. Like, I mean, I told you this was going to be a good box office. Like before, we wow it's a good box office.
01:16:35
Speaker
You didn't have a chance of unknown origin. You didn't have a chance. No, it's not your fault. I mean, Mr. Mom is at number 15. Hey, like two I I mean, good. ah In fourth place, ah James Bond in Never Say Never Again, the oft forgotten non-eon James Bond movie, Connery's last outing as the character. I was yawning for real and in response to just mentioning James Bond.
01:17:06
Speaker
Um, down from first place the week before in fifth place in its second week, Amityville 3D.
01:17:17
Speaker
Yes, that's what the cover looks like. You're doing it. You're doing the hand. Yeah. No, I mean, their hand. Yeah. Just like that. Sure. Biggy bat rounding out the top 10. You've got the Smurfs and the magic flute in sixth place. A movie that came out in. No. No.
01:17:35
Speaker
That is a children. I know how you feel about sexualization of children's characters, Tucker. I wouldn't be surprised. Hey, Alvin and Chipmunk's movie, like that's all I have to go by. So the Smurfs was probably like disgusting as well.
01:17:47
Speaker
That movie came out in 1976 in Belgium. It took that long for the American release. um That movie came out eight weeks prior. It was ah in seventh place. Tom Cruise and Leah Thompson, the aforementioned Leah Thompson and all the right moves. Yeah, well, you can see his wiener if you pause it just right. If you pause it just right. You can see his wang and you definitely see, you know, a decent amount of Leah Thompson as well.
01:18:16
Speaker
ah A decent amount of her wang as well. a a Big floppy Leah Thompson wang. Rather than that corkscrew wang that we get from getting Howard the Duck. Yeah, dude. Keep bringing that up, that's fun. Why don't I like that movie? I don't know, you should. I like that movie better than you do, and that's weird. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't. In eighth place, A Night in Heaven. In ninth place, The Right Stuff.
01:18:46
Speaker
And oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And in 10th place, Richard Pryor here and now the the comedy stand up film in its fifth week has already gained $15 million. dollars So understandable. There you go. ah In ah Unknown Origin loses out.
01:19:07
Speaker
to Deal of the Century, the the one of the worst William Friedkin movies, and it's fourth week. Mr. Mom in 15th place and Never Cry Wolf in 14th. David Cronenberg's The Dead Zone in 13th place after six weeks in the box office. Was Christopher Walken in that? He was, and he's very good in it. Yeah. That's a good movie. What's that series that? the Anthony Michael Hall.
01:19:37
Speaker
No, not the TV series, The Dark Zone. I'm talking about the the film franchise, the horror film franchise, Christopher Walken to the prophecy, the prophecy. Yes. I always get those two mixed up even though they're not really that simple. I mean, kind of. No, they're you could draw comparisons, but it would be a stretch.
01:19:55
Speaker
Right, it's a stretch that you're drawing the comparisons now, quite frankly. The Tomatometer score on this one is a 63%. No critics consensus on this one. That's wild. um So there you go. ah The Metascore is a 51 based on mixed or average reviews from four critics, just four critics. And Tucker, want to take a stab at that litter box score?
01:20:24
Speaker
The litter box, I'm going to start calling it litter box because that's pretty much what it is. I'm going to say ah the letterter the litter box score is between 2.8 and 3.3.
01:20:36
Speaker
ah You almost missed it. 3.2. Nice. I knew it would be never in right around three. Because this is it's I think it's a polarizing film. It's one that you either really like or you really are just turned off by.
Review and Future Plans
01:20:51
Speaker
So that makes it really ripe for meme reviews. yeah figure it would get kind of It's kind of kind of a quintessential gentlemen six in a lot of ways. Yeah. um Friend of the show. ah
01:21:07
Speaker
No, I'm not gonna say that, nevermind. Cut that out. But yeah, that is, that those are the letterbox rank. Tucker out of five stars, how do you rate 1983s of Unknown Origin?
01:21:23
Speaker
This has always been for me a three or a three and a half until I got this Blu-ray and listened to the commentary a couple of times. And usually with movies I already liked pretty well. Listening to the commentary makes me like them more because maybe there's some things I won't notice or maybe there's some parts where the movie is just a little bit smarter than me and I don't really get what it's trying to do.
01:21:47
Speaker
And when you have a good commentary with a director ah like the director of this film, who is in this commentary, he gives you the intention of pretty much every scene. And then you have Peter Weller kind of commenting on how they work together to create this character and like how to figure out where he was at and at every point in this film. And they shot it in sequence.
01:22:14
Speaker
ah Mainly because they could destroy the set and not have to put it back together. Right. But Peter Weller said that helped him and the director, George, but but how say George
01:22:28
Speaker
it's so easy to say. I don't know why. ah So the two of them ah kind of had a lot of fun figuring out where this guy was in each scene, like as far as mental stability.
01:22:40
Speaker
And ah I don't know listening to stuff like that kind of makes the film better for me, even when I watch it without the commentary, because I see some of the purpose and some of the intent and it it it makes me enjoy it a little bit more. So this is a solid four for me. And it's it's a two and a half for me. Like, again, I appreciate what I what I do about it and The rest of it kind of leaves me a little cold. So I mean, that gives us an aggregate score of about three point two five, which feels about right. Which ain't bad. Not bad. We've definitely scored some films worse. So because it's not a bad movie, even if you don't like it, it's not. ah It's a very well made movie, very good artistically shot, like beautiful. Like it's a piece of craftsmanship is what it is. It is something. Yeah, for sure. Yes.
01:23:34
Speaker
So there we go in some points. Right. Yes. Now we will come back, of course, to George Cosmatos in our Leviathan episode, future episode coming coming forth. And of course, we'll revisit. I'm I'm sure at some point we'll get Peter Wellard again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We can't say what you least expect him.
01:23:57
Speaker
He do. He's actually in Leviathan. So there we go. We'll cover. We'll cover him there. I have not seen. No, I have seen Leviathan. I have not. He's also in the made for TV version of the Poseidon adventure. ah Oh, boy. Or I mean, oh, boy.
01:24:18
Speaker
Oh, boy. Oh, boy. And that um we is a naked lunch. Hmm. No, no. I do it on straight up, which I like it. But it's it's pretty well known. I mean, it's a David k Cronenberg film. So yes, it absolutely must burrows book. So those two weirdos together like you get a collection of weirdos that you can't beat with a bat. You know, know so many. No, no, no, no.
01:24:45
Speaker
um But yeah, there we go ah That is our episode on that is our final episode of our fifth annual spooky fun And our fifth ever straight up so all the fives converging on this episode ah Join us next week. We have a guest scheduled a returning guest I am actually very much looking forward to recording that episode me too Girl saying, I don't know what this fucking movie is,
Episode Closing and Engagement
01:25:11
Speaker
though. You keep saying it, but I've never heard. of them What the fuck is this shit? We're watching ni you. I check it out. I don't know. say I remember seeing the ads for it. Fuck is this shit? fuck The fuck is this shit?
01:25:23
Speaker
um Uh-huh. So we're going to we're going to we're coming at you next week. We're going to have a good time. ah But until that guy from that other movies in it, though. Yes, he is. And that girl from that other movies also in it, too. From from. Yeah, don't say you have to beep it out. Oh, OK.
01:25:47
Speaker
anyway you were closing out the episodes i was trying was i believe i was trying we are the disenfranchised podcast feel free to follow us on social media um Make sure that you do that. We're at DisinfranchPod on socials. Write us an email at DisinfranchPod at gmail dot.com. Write us a five-star rating and review wherever you get your podcasts, especially if that is Spotify or, let or not letterboxed, Apple podcasts. That's going to help us find more people like you. ah Head on over to disenfranch or the Patreon for Disinfranchise, patreon.com slash DisinfranchPod.
01:26:26
Speaker
Listen to our ah Halloween spectacular episode on on our Ghostbusters ranking, our Dissonfive Chives ranking of the Ghostbusters films. And while you're out there doing it, um,
01:26:44
Speaker
You know, you you join the official conversation of the disenfranchised podcast. We drop every episode of the main feed on that feed for free so that you and I and Tucker can all talk with each other. It's a good. That's how you knew. That's how you knew I was sick. We got a comment yesterday and you replied before I did. i that's true That's how you know.
01:27:09
Speaker
I 100% did reply to that comment from from past and future guest Andrew greetings. um no Love that guy. That guy's a good guy. Yeah, um dude. Yeah.
01:27:20
Speaker
Yes, dude. But yeah, that do do that. ah You follow me on social media. I'm at Chewy Walrus on certain platforms. ah Some I use more than others. Figure it out. ah Brett, our co-host Brett Wright occasionally posts on Instagram, but mostly on Letterboxd. It's us underscore Warlock. What was he doing this week? Did I miss that?
01:27:40
Speaker
Uh, the Halloween costume. He posted his, uh, you know, you, you always say a thing that has to do with the movie about why he's not here. did you oh i miss didn't No, I completely didn't do that. What's he been doing this week, Steven? Well, he's, uh, I hear he's got a bit of a rodent infestation that he's trying to take care of. Yeah. Okay. There you go. So there you go. And, um, and Tucker, what about you?
01:28:07
Speaker
I've, uh, as always, I'm on it Instagram and YouTube. but Excuse me. At ice nine oh nine. That's I C e N I N E the number zero and the number nine.
01:28:21
Speaker
Also, there's a tuck mugs, that's tuck underscore mugs. i Somebody said they were gonna do a spooky mug. and to Today, the day this drops, there will be a okay i believe the social media manager intimated to me, the intention of posting all the ah spooky themed mugs that have appeared on tuck mugs over the years.
01:28:44
Speaker
Oh, I like that. That's a good idea. Yeah, I remember you said something about it last week and I couldn't maybe be what you said. the The social media manager you mean? Because the fever has burned those memories out of my brain. Correct. As it is want to do.
01:29:00
Speaker
as it do. It do be doing that sometimes. It do be like that sometimes. But TuckMugs is the shit Tuck underscore mugs. It's a whole thing. It's a whole Instagram page. Just a mugs. Yeah. And cool little stories about how they came to be and what's in them. And guest mugs. You got a guest mug. Send it to us. Send it. Go to Tuck underscore mugs. Check out the format. and mugs for Check it out. Pretty easy to follow.
01:29:26
Speaker
Look at a couple of posts, you'll get it. You'll get it. You can either send it to us as a DM on Instagrams or you can email us at the aforementioned email address. Disenfranchpod at gmail dot.com. That's it.
01:29:41
Speaker
That's it. That's absolutely it. That's the shortest tuck mugs plug ever. That's how you know he's sick. People is that's the tuck mugs plug you get. And that is the episode. I'm drunk. He's sick. We're ending it now. We're getting out while we can.
01:29:59
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining. Seriously, thank you for listening. I'm not sure why you do, particularly when we give you episodes like this. um I love this movie, Steven. And I had insightful things to say about it. I thought that I brought my case forward very eloquently. and I was well spoken. This is a very good episode. The last few minutes have been a mess. That's all I'm saying.
01:30:20
Speaker
um I'm running out of steam. That's all it is. That's you and I'm I'm running out of i'm sobriety. I'm turning into a puddle of sweat right now, Steven. I look I get it. So, hey, friends, thank you so much for joining us. Join us again next week. We're coming into November. We've got a couple of fun guests planned for November and and also a kind of ah a mini series within the month, like right in the middle of the month. We got a fun little mini series that we're doing. So it's going to be a good time.
01:30:48
Speaker
Uh, we hope to see you there and, um, yeah, I'm, this has been the disenfranchised podcast for my co-host Tucker and the absent Brett Wright. Until next time, man, fuck that rat. Leave us alone.