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220 - Captain America (1990) w/ Mike Snoonian
41 Plays5 days ago
“It's bad medicine... and nobody said the medicine was going to taste any good. But can we afford not to take it? I don't think so. If we don't take this medicine now, we'll all die. Slowly... but we'll die.”
Another year, another Valentine’s Day and longtime listeners know that means some quality time with our eternal Valentine’s date, the great Mike Snoonian! And this year, to celebrate the release of Captain America: Brave New World, we’re talking about the first attempt to bring the star spangled super-soldier to the big screen! Along the way, we also discuss Tucker’s vitriol for the artwork of Mark Bagley, Jack’s one bad day (hour, really), a relitigation of our stances on the MCU and Halloween franchises, the current state of media consumption and the death of the mid-budget movie, and Jackie Brown and its place in Quentin Tarantino’s oeuvre! Don’t miss it!
Gee whiz, do we ever love Mike Snoonian! Make sure you check out him and his work at the following places:
- @mikechumpchange on Letterboxd.
- @mikesnoonian on Bluesky.
- Catch Mike on The Pod and the Pendulum and follow them on Bluesky, Instagram, and Patreon.
Don’t call us your brothers! (That’s our sisters’ job!) You can, however, follow us at these social media platforms:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Letterboxd, and YouTube.
- Email us your thoughts or requests to disenfranchpod@gmail.com
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky and Letterboxd.
- Check out Stephen’s first novel - Check In, Check Out - on Amazon, now available in paperback or ebook: https://amzn.to/44idk8y
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram.
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including bi-weekly episodes of What Are We Watching? at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
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Transcript
Introduction to the Disenfranchised Podcast
00:00:21
Speaker
A franchise right below will make us rich beyond our wildest dreams. Happy Valentine's Day, disenfranchised nation. This is the disenfranchised podcast, that podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full-fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, and love is in
Valentine's Special with Mike Snooty
00:00:46
Speaker
the air. It's all around us everywhere we look, especially with my co-host, Tucker. How are you doing, Tucker?
00:00:52
Speaker
Hi, Steven. How's it going? Happy Valentine's Day. And also with you. um This episode releases the 13th. Valentine's Day is tomorrow. And so we are joined by our perennial Valentine's guest. Look, we've been doing the show for five years now. And there are very few things that have like remained constant over the course of five years.
00:01:16
Speaker
But one of them is that when Valentine's Day rolls around, you better believe we're putting Mike Snooty in on the schedule. From the pot and the pendulum, it's the great Mike Snooty. And Mike, welcome back.
00:01:28
Speaker
Oh, it's a pleasure to be back, Steven. So if people are like getting down to this on Valentine's Day, they could be just going to pound town right now. I hope so. this
Exploring 'Captain America' (1990) as a Romantic Film
00:01:40
Speaker
I hope so. ma I hope that our entire listenership is boning to us who talking about this movie, because honestly,
00:01:49
Speaker
There is no room norm no more room i'm so tired no romantic film in the history of creation ah than the film we're talking about today that we're talking about because of the release of Captain America Brave New World in theaters tomorrow.
00:02:06
Speaker
Captain America, 1990, directed by Albert Pyeon, and starring Matt Salinger, Ronnie Cox, Scott Paulin, Ned Beatty, Darren McGavin, Bill Mumey. Yes, that Bill Mumey. Just showing up in here, Melinda Dillon in this thing, fronts ah Francesca Neri. Like, what a cast. And dare I say it, gentlemen? What a picture.
00:02:52
Speaker
It got a theatrical release. Didn't need one. It didn't get one in the States. It got one overseas. The only thing i I checked on the IMDB was like, is this supposed to be in four by three? Did they zoom this in?
00:03:05
Speaker
But it's not. It's shot and won by five. Like it's it's it's a wide boy, which you wouldn't be able to tell of of with all the close shots. It shot like a television film. Yeah, it would be amazing. It's real good, though, tomorrow when everyone's headed to the theater for the new Captain America.
Release and Reception of 'Captain America' (1990)
00:03:23
Speaker
You have some like very disgruntled projectionists. Just say fuck it and throw this on instead. And then just lock the projection room, like barricade himself in and just see how long it would take theatergoers to catch on. I reckon not long. I think about 10 minutes in, someone's going to be going, wait, where's Harrison Ford? I thought Anthony Mackie was in this like. Yeah, dude.
00:03:54
Speaker
I mean, that could be the most epic way to quit it ever. I think of Ehrlich or Harrison Ford. People would make that. They both play the president. Yeah. I mean, they there's there's a similar look going on with both ah both of them, for sure. Speaking.
00:04:13
Speaker
Speaking of, I'm sorry, Steven, but this is important.
Comparisons and Narrative Techniques
00:04:16
Speaker
How crazy is it that this plot so closely mirrors the plot of the return of Captain Invincible? How is that? Remember the that president's a kid and he meets the superhero and then later they and and it's the president and like. Like, OK, so Captain Invincible became an alcoholic and Steve Rogers got frozen in ice. What's the fucking difference?
00:04:43
Speaker
I think that you just said the difference. I mean, that's the difference. But outside of that pretty big. I mean, I would say so. I mean, this is also not an Australian film. It's also not a musical. but I'm just saying Captain Invincible came before this. A year before this.
00:05:02
Speaker
Well, I think it's probably one of those things where it's just, you know, you know, two people with similar ideas. I could not believe that, though. When I knew at the beginning when the kid took the picture, I was like, that kid, especially because in the beginning, he's like, I'm going to be president, ma'am. Right. And you're like, oh, odd thing to include. Chekhov's rogue comment. Yeah.
00:05:26
Speaker
If he doesn't say it at the beginning, how are we gonna know it's the same guy when he does become president? But it is sad that his friend that becomes a journalist dies. And like, when he gives him the Captain Midnight thing at the end, he's like, yeah, homeboy didn't make it. and He's like, oh shit, I was sadder than they were, honestly.
00:05:45
Speaker
It was honestly, it was a um it was a reunion between ah Ned Beatty and Ronnie Cox from Deliverance, one of the great movies of the greatest decade in film ever, Deliverance. They're always directed by one John Borman. Who directed Exorcist 2, The Heretic. It's full circle. We brought it
Character Performances and Humor
00:06:05
Speaker
back.
00:06:06
Speaker
Listen, listen to the pod in the pendulum episode where Mike and I struggle with Devon, who is really doing a lot of heavy lifting on that episode. Um, in terms of like stumping for that movie, uh, where, where Mike and I struggled to make it through Exorcist to the heretic. He really did. Oh, I love how I liked him.
00:06:45
Speaker
And here's the thing, I i feel like Ned Beatty and Darren McGavin especially know exactly, and honestly, Ronnie Cox, too. All of those guys know exactly what movie they're in, and they're giving just the exact right performance for this movie. Like, I think their performances are part of why this movie stands out so much, honestly. You know what the glue is? Actually, you're close, but the glue in this movie is the car bit.
00:07:11
Speaker
where steve raptures it's like oh wait you guys i feel sick hold up pull over i feel sick yes and then he pulls the old loop-de-loop on him the old switcheroo yep every time and it's like five times and every time i'm like he's gonna I love that's a running gag throughout. yeah He's so he's Captain America and that's his go to bid on something like crazy. It's just like, oh, I want to be sick. Pull over. The only thing that would make it better is if after like the third time he does it, he looks at the camp directly into the camera and goes, that's right, kids. It's a running gag and drives off. Just nice. Perfect. Just like Kermit the Frog in the Muppet movie and like, oh, it's a running and gag. We love it.
00:07:56
Speaker
um So, Mike, we we kind of corralled you into
Mike's First Viewing Experience of 'Captain America' (1990)
00:07:59
Speaker
this one. Last year, I looked at the calendar and realized there was going to be a Captain America movie coming out on ah Valentine's Day. So, I kind of, I kind of strong-armed you into this one. Do you have any kind of special affinity for Captain America, the character? ah Had you seen this movie prior to this watch? Like, what's what's kind of your history with Captain America?
00:08:18
Speaker
I had definitely not watched this movie prior to last night. like I knew of its existence and knew that it was weird to me because at one point Canon Films held the rights to three of the most iconic superheroes ever.
Canon Films' Superhero Endeavors
00:08:40
Speaker
And they squandered all of them squandered all they did. They did manage to put Superman for a quest for peace into theaters. And that was only the second most tragic thing to ever happen to Christopher Reeves. Then they had
00:08:57
Speaker
Spider-Man, the rights to Spider-Man. Right. James Cameron was going to direct the Spider-Man movie. James Cameron, which I can't imagine, though, it would have had the budget it would have needed. I mean, it wouldn't. You think James Cameron, Spider-Man, and you get excited and then you're like, but by canon films and you're like. But by canon films, yeah. It would probably look like those 1970s made for television films that I grew up on, that I remember watching. It would have been Cameron coming off of like Terminator.
00:09:26
Speaker
either Terminator Piranha to like because that was his first move, the one he completely disowns and like, oh, we don't count it because Cameron doesn't count it accounts. Terminator is 84. And I feel like it was post. It was definitely post Terminator. OK, but I mean, he comes out of the corpsman school. So like those guys know how to work on a budget. But Cameron is kind of one of those guys. It's like, I give me the money I need. Well, I also feel like Spider-Man is not something you can do on a budget.
00:09:55
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, it's, you know, you need some, you got to sink some dough in there. And then you had Captain America. yeah Based on what I've heard from his treatment and his ideas for it, he was kind of a guy who just like he knew who Spider-Man was and he had his ideas of a movie he wanted to make, but he didn't really care about staying close to the source material. He really just wanted to use the name to make something cool that he wanted to make. Oh, like this movie.
00:10:25
Speaker
What? No, they don this is I mean, this is is not super true. Like it's not adhering to the comic comics in the way that like Sam Raimi, Spider-Man or even Joe Johnson's Captain America did.
00:10:40
Speaker
Now, the fact that he's fighting against Red Skull instead of some no-name like crime boss says a lot, I think. But it's it's it's not Red Skull. It's like, what if Red Skull was Italian instead of a Nazi? But for some reason, we're not saying Nazi. What if Red Skull, even though they show the symbols, what if Red Skull was Jigsaw?
00:11:03
Speaker
Not Jigsaw from the Saw movies, but Jigsaw from Punisher. yeah That's that's yes more accurate. I was about to say, wait a minute. and then yes Thank you for clarifying. but i mean this This movie is so close to the comics that it predicts something from the MCU, that his sweetheart's daughter is named Sharon.
00:11:23
Speaker
because you got Sharon Carter in the MCU, Peggy Carter's daughter that he also has a weird thing with for a minute. Mm hmm. Just like he has with Sharon and this and it's like, no, calm down. That's never going to be comfortable.
Ethical and Dramatic Elements of 'Captain America' (1990)
00:11:35
Speaker
Like that was your gal back in the day. Just because that's like, that's that's weird. That would be like a girl in high school. Yeah, that would be like if I dated a girl in high school and then started dating her daughter now. Yeah, don't do that. That's weird. Don't talk or don't do maybe.
00:11:53
Speaker
But we could do that very well back. No, I'm married, sir. That's true. I don't think you're a standing man, but I don't know. And I don't think you are also a very understanding man in that relationship. Let's be clear. ah truly um but I But I yeah, like the legality, it's it's a moral, it's a moral thing for me. I'm a big believer in the half your age plus seven rule. Big believer in that.
00:12:23
Speaker
So basically, that would be tough for him to date anybody, though, because technically he is like 70 something years old in this movie. So it's going to be kind of hard for him to find. Well, I kind of thought before they killed his sweetheart, which was very disturbing them zipping her up. That was fucked up like i yeah that in this movie. I was like, that's fucked up. And oh, Sharon's coming in like, what the fuck? And they're just zipping her up. And it's like, holy shit.
00:12:53
Speaker
This movie just got real. Felt like Martin Lawrence and bad boys, too. I'm all like, shit just got real. And the camera's spinning around me. You know, around and around. Steven's and Steven, I answer the phone and Steven looks at me and I'm just like, shit just got real. And I'm like, are you spinning around in a circle right now? He's like, I don't know, maybe. I'm like, no, that's the camera, man.
00:13:19
Speaker
but all good I swear there's a camera down there. There's a camera. As far as like the comic. Adherent skull look I did read I think it was like the Rob Lee field Drawn like Captain America
Comic Book Art Styles and Preferences
00:13:33
Speaker
comics like back when like Captain America Fantastic Four and others got shifted into this other grocery bars by Yeah, I think it was like a Fantastic Four story where like Franklin Reed dreams up a new it's almost like that
00:13:50
Speaker
That Twilight Zone episode where you can like that got kid can think of like New World to send people to. I read. Oh, there's a sequel to that. It's really good. There is. Yeah, in the in the early 2000s version with Forest Whitaker, there's a sequel. It's really good. Yeah.
00:14:08
Speaker
um I read like the ultimate when it first came out for a few. year old Me too. yeah I read like the the first hundred or so episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man. Like that was definitely my jam. I think that's still one of the best comic book runs of all time.
00:14:24
Speaker
Except for that ugly art. Am I right, guys? hu I like that guys i i like like the only one I had to look I grew up on his art because when I started getting into comics, he was drawn ASM back in the day. And I I always hated it. I've always hated the way he draws faces. Oh, wow. They're all so generic and like awful looking. All his bodies, the way he draws the human anatomy is just I feel that way about Chris Bakalow, honestly. I like the way he draws Spidey though. I like Begley Spidey. It's too cartoonish. I don't mind. I was into it. Skinny, he's too, especially ultimate, even for a child. He's quite a little teenager. Skinny, I was... I was so glad when Magneto ended the world with that flood and they switched to like the other art like them even and you know, I don't like manga. You don't like manga, anime, any of that shit outside of a few exceptions. And they started drawing it like a manga almost. And I was like, thank fuck. At least I don't have to look at Mark Begley's bullshit anymore. His venom is the worst. The worst. So lazy. His art's so lazy.
00:15:41
Speaker
Oh, give me give me Romita, even early Romita Junior. Well, I definitely love. I prefer Romita Junior's Spider-Man art, but I did love Begley's art on Ultimate, but I think John Romita Junior is like to me, just like I loved ah Jim Apparel's art for Batman in the 90s. Like that was my Batman artist of choice. See, I'm ah i'm a Neil Adams guy, but I like Jim too. Yeah.
00:16:08
Speaker
um But as far as like this movie adhering to Captain America, like my understanding is like Captain America is a symbol that he's out there in the world. Like people know who he is. And he's like a very public figure. And here he goes on one mission. He can't stop the Nazi at the beginning. Like, by the way, like great security, like definitely phenomenal.
00:16:37
Speaker
vetting process that they're doing here. Oh, yes. Where he's like, hey, great job. I'll hit learn. Everyone's like, what? What? Who let this guy in? That very sinister man turned out to be sinister.
Views on the MCU Post-Endgame
00:16:51
Speaker
He gets his head he gets his ass handed to him on his in his first mission by the Red Skull. Like Red Skull is it's like if you have me against like three kindergarten kids, like I could beat the snot out of three kindergarten kids challenge accepted. I will do that. um He just like wails on him. And then no one like it's he's not a public figure. No one knows who he is. And then even at the end of the film, when they have that news broadcast, it's like strange message from the president saying, thank you, Captain America, wherever you are. Right. And it's like, isn't he supposed to be this
00:17:33
Speaker
you know, public symbol of the it will I maybe we can talk about what that means now, right? You know, if you're doing captive, you're creating Captain America from scratch in 2024. Gosh, we thought we needed him 15 years ago. Boy, right.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, Captain America, we need you more now than ever. Maybe, maybe we need Falcon, man. Maybe we need to see this good Captain America movie and see what's up. Maybe. Maybe we need to see Harrison Ford turn into a Red Hulk and. I liked that show. rock um Like that show, like the Falcon and Winter Soldier.
00:18:10
Speaker
That's even though I liked Civil War, and I liked Winter Soldier, that's more of the tone I wanted other Captain America movies to be like spy thrillers. Yeah, I really liked that show. I know most people were like, Yeah, that show was okay. But I really fucking dubbed that show. I was way into that show. I wish they liked about that show was the thing everyone else hated, which was the the the ah Wyatt Russell as Captain America. I thought that was fantastic. That was really cool well and a really great perspective on American foreign policy as it was at the time and kind of is now again. Yeah. um Like and I'm excited. Go ahead.
00:18:48
Speaker
No, I was just going to say, like, I loved that angle and everyone else was kind of like, this sucks. And I was like, you guys suck. That's awesome. that was Fantastic. And that character, as I'm very interested, I want to see Thunderbolts mainly just for that character, because he's a very complicated character. I like he's not a bad guy, but he's not fucking Steve Rogers. That's the whole point. That's the point. And I'm very, very interested to see what they do with that character.
00:19:15
Speaker
Very, very interested. Probably more than any other character in the MCU. I want to see what happens to that motherfucker. Yeah, this is where I say like I pretty much have zero interest in anything in the MCU.
00:19:28
Speaker
that's totally fair. You know, what I'm kind of right there with you. I'm not like endgame was such a good jump off point that I was kind of like, you know what, I've committed to this thing for like the last 11 years. I'm okay. And I don't feel like I need to see anymore. But there are some things about it that interest me more than others. Some of them I get around to eventually some of them I just watch the spoilers on the internet and be like, Oh, that's what happened. Okay, cool. um But yeah, I'm not I'm not as excited about it as I once was, but I will never not watch something MCU because it's
00:20:05
Speaker
I look at it the same way I look at the comics like I'm there's gonna be a shitty issue here and there but I'm gonna keep reading the comic because I want to know what happens to the characters I want to know what happens next like especially now that there's so many things happen happening I want to see you know how this goes with that what's gonna cross over just like with the comics like I know there's gonna be some duds And I've sat through, I'd sat through Secret Invasion. So I've, I get it. It can be really bad. Like I would say most of the time it's not.
The MCU's Narrative Complexity
00:20:40
Speaker
Majority of the time it's at least good. But every once in a while it's bad, but I'm going to stick with it just like I've watched every fucking Halloween movie. Even though basically everything between two and the Rob Zombie remakes kind of sucked. Well, H2O was good.
00:20:59
Speaker
And resurrection is bad good. Four is okay. Four is terrific. for Four is a like, oh man, I'm so glad Michael Myers is back. Terrific though. It does have that kid from days and confused in it though, so I'm always into that. It's Sasha Jenkins, his eyebrows. It has a handsome it has a group of year olds tormenting an orphan by yelling, Jay meets an orphan. I do like six better than four though. I love six. I love six.
00:21:28
Speaker
i just kind of I think between the producers and the theatrical, there's one terrific movie. I would say prefer the producer's cut. I do, too. um And I agree with you. I think if if you kind of squish those two together, taking the best parts from both, you'd have a really damn good Halloween movie. But I like both versions, but producers cuts my favorite. But six, I think, is my favorite main first original timeline sequel yeah i could see that because it's the first one since two where michael feels like michael at least for like a good chunk of the movie in terms of like being the shape again like i can totally understand that and i don't know i feel like with the mcu there's just so much work to do
00:22:18
Speaker
Like I forgot until you mentioned it that secret invasion existed and it feels like one of those things are like if you want to go see one of these movies now, you have to watch. It's almost like with ah it's the same issue with comic books where everything is so interconnected. It's like rather than just tell one character's story in their book,
00:22:44
Speaker
It's almost like you have to read all of these crossovers that go through multiple books and it's like, I don't want to do that. Number one, comic books are expensive now. I mean, it is, I think they're like at least six bucks for a print comic. Jeez Louise. Yeah, for certain issues, yeah. It's almost cheaper, good point.
00:23:06
Speaker
It's almost cheaper at this point to just get the online like streaming access to the actual like publisher and just stream them off of there. I feel like that would hurt my eyes. Are there direct editions anymore? Can I get it delivered to my house? I'm sure there are.
00:23:20
Speaker
i'm not I did it when I was a kid. You can go, I would go to the comic store and just like load up back in the day. Like I would just. Oh yeah. You'd have, you'd have ah a, you'd have a poll box for sure. Yeah. tucker Tucker and I had one at the same comic bookstore and didn't even know it. I think Brett too. Honestly times. Yeah.
00:23:40
Speaker
as he was a little helper. I was. I feel like now it's just too much work with the Marvel you to keep up with everything. Agreed. To know. Look, I don't want to have to watch 10 hours of backstory before I get into like a two hour and change movie.
00:24:00
Speaker
which is still itself going to be a commercial for the next one that's the thing is like none of this is it you can't end any of it ever and that's why I felt like if I don't get off at endgame I'm never getting off right I I kind of disagree I think there are a lot of the films have stingers that you know hint to other things. But there are, I would say, at least a third of everything Marvel puts out, even though it's a part of the universe as a whole, is like a bottle episode. I would consider things like Agatha all along, that's a bottle episode.
00:24:36
Speaker
It's not though because at the end you get the tease for Vision Quest and the other twin. But that story completes is what I'm saying. The way that you're presenting it is that like these stories just don't end. They just go into something else. But there are things that have a definitive end.
00:24:56
Speaker
It's not like a season of television where cliffhangers onto something. It's like this story is here. We've had this many episodes to tell this story. And we're going to tell you that it's going to lead into this. But this.
00:25:08
Speaker
This is done. this so This has happened. I think like the Doctor Strange and the multiverse movie, like the second Doctor Strange film is a good example where that becomes a Scarlet Witch movie just as much. And I think that, can you enjoy it without having seen Scarlet? Was it WandaVision?
00:25:33
Speaker
sure, but like I think you can actually need to have watched that show, which is a terrific show like it is. I would recommend watching it, but I feel like I needed to have seen that in order to really grasp what was going on. Definitely. I would argue that you're correct in certain situations. If if okay multiverse of madness is someone's first MCU movie, I don't know how it would be, but welcome, I guess. I mean, sick and rainy is how it would be. Yeah, but um you can follow what's going on. like You don't have to have seen WandaVision, but I think where you're hitting the nail on the head is if you've seen everything but WandaVision.
Evan Peters' Impact in the Marvel Series
00:26:17
Speaker
Like you saw her, you saw Scarlet Witch in everything but Wandavision when she goes cuckoo banana pants and leads to how she is in multiverse of man. If you go from like Age of Ultron to multiverse of madness, you'd be like, wait, what happened? What happened to Wanda, man? What's going on? What's going on?
00:26:38
Speaker
And that' sure and it it kind of speaks to to what you're saying that you do have to watch all of it. Like you can't you can't pick and choose. You can't watch this and then skip that because then you're going to be lost. like Yeah. Which is why, honestly, it kind of makes sense to just dip out if you're not committed to the whole thing. Yo, speaking of Agatha Long, though, what about um Evan Peters return? I found that quite enjoyable. I don't know if you guys saw that. Didn't see it. Evan, was Evan Peters, but you saw WandaVision.
00:27:12
Speaker
You know, Evan Peters was Johnny Boner or whatever his name is. Yeah, Boner. He comes back in Agatha all along and he's fucking traumatized. Like, he's completely insane. I would imagine so. And it's fucked up. It's fucked up. No one plays fucked up better than Evan Peters. Really? That kid is great at playing fucked up. He's good. I like him.
00:27:36
Speaker
He's a good actor. He's a very good guy. I've gotten us so off track and I apologize. Captain America was so rad. How would you say Evan Peters compares to Matt Salinger? I mean, where is he on the scale? Salinger's a better cap. I don't want to see Evan Peters as Captain America is what I'd say. True, but I also don't want to see Matt Salinger play any other characters. I mean, honestly. That's also true.
00:28:01
Speaker
ah Tucker, had you seen this movie prior? and And what's your relationship with the good captain? Look, I had no idea what this movie was. You heard me last week. I thought it was the 1979 version with Homeboy from Space Mutiny. Beef McLarge huge, yeah. Yeah, I thought I thought that's this one, but it wasn't. And it took me a couple seconds to realize it wasn't and to realize that it was really, really good. ah No, I've always been aware of Captain America. My my comics comics renaissance during my ah middle school and high school days, I was getting direct editions of Amazing Spider-Man and What If to my door. And when they ended that run of What If, they just sent me Avengers throughout my through the rest of it.
Discovering 'Captain America' (1990) and Its Broadcast History
00:28:45
Speaker
But I like I I am aware of Captain America. I'm familiar with him. And I have been since my comic days.
00:28:58
Speaker
um But I didn't know that this movie existed at all and gosh, I'm upset that I didn't Because this is this is the epitome of a Tucker film. All the time I could have been watching this movie, and no one told me. And you know who was watching this movie the whole time, Tucker? You were, you dingus. It was me. I watched this movie ah like so many times as a kid. I remember watching it at home. I remember watching it at my grandmother's. like i don't think And it's not when we recorded off of the television. It was just one that like was on TV a lot when I was growing up.
00:29:34
Speaker
So I kind of this being on TV, it was it was absolutely was starting in about 92. It was on TV a lot. And I've and watched it what a lot. I feel like it was on the like one of the cable channels, like maybe like a TBS TNT kind of thing maybe. Sounds like more of a USA thing. Or your USA. I remember it being on on Sunday afternoons though is usually when I would catch it. Like my parents would take a nap in the afternoons after church, after after Sunday, church and Sunday dinner, they'd take a nap and I would just get to watch TV.
00:30:09
Speaker
And usually I would end up watching just a really stupid, silly movie on one of the channels, because they that was when you would get to watch stupid, silly movies. It was on Sunday Afternoons. And I remember watching this one a lot. This one was in the regular rotation on the stations that I would tune into. Nice.
00:30:32
Speaker
So I grew up with this one. This was probably my first introduction to Captain America. There are parts of this movie I was telling you before we recorded, Mike, that I remember vividly, like Captain America and the president meeting in the castle and like.
00:30:48
Speaker
exchanging the the medallion and him going, oh, I've been waiting for this moment for for all my life. And going, oh, gee whiz. like I remember that so well. I remember the bit at the end where Red Skull bites it with the shield. like I remember all of that. it's Like the beginning of this movie, though, no memory of it whatsoever. I was just like, wow, these people are speaking a lot of Italian. I had no idea. um Did not remember that at all. But like the final showdown etched in my memory.
00:31:17
Speaker
I almost wonder if they like would cut it for TV and not even show that beginning. Cause it's 90, if they would cut it for length and be like, if there's anything they can go, it's the opening scene where they're like speaking in Italian. It kind of makes the ending make no sense though. Cause that's the whole, like with the recording, that's the thing that ends up making him like, sure like zone out for long enough for him to throw the shield, I guess.
00:31:47
Speaker
but i mean you're talking about like ah the executives at tbs or usa they're not right you know they're not cutting war in peace here you know what i mean they're like what we need to fill two hours and we need to sell count chocula during the ad breaks correct
00:32:07
Speaker
But yeah, no, I remember this. vi And then when I got older, I became a big Captain America fan. Like Captain America is one of my top five favorite superheroes. Easy. And that honestly is largely because of the Johnny Raber, ah John Cassidy run after 911. Like that run is unimpeachable. I love that run. It is the it is the run that made me a cap fan. okay um And so I be i became a cap fan in late 2020 2001 and I remain one to this day. um Like and that is that is my Captain America.
00:32:42
Speaker
is So when when you watch this movie as a kid, were you did you have like at least like a passing familiarity with like the Avengers and Hulk and Iron Man or were those like completely Steven's a DC boy.
Steven's Comic Book Background and Influences
00:33:01
Speaker
I'm a DC boy. um My, my, my Marvel knowledge came much, much later, ah mostly through the X-Men and then the X-Men were like outlawed by my Christian elementary school and by my- Because minorities, right?
00:33:15
Speaker
because Because mutation and evolution. Because racism, right? We believe in, no, because we believe that God created everything, therefore evolution is a hoax and we don't believe it. Did you Ben Affleck, Jay and Silent Bob strikes back them fictional characters? I did not, I tried. You should have. I tried. My my buddy Justin was such a big comic book fan. Shout out to Justin Knapp.
00:33:41
Speaker
Um, love that guy. Um, he has his own Wikipedia page, was the first, wiki first man to get a million edits on Wikipedia. Shout out Justin Knapp, my, my elementary school friends. Wasn't he also the original, one of Tom Hanks's original neighbors in the burbs? He was one of the Knapp's? Uh, no.
00:34:02
Speaker
he He did audition to play Babe Ruth in, like, young Babe Ruth in the movie The Babe starring John Goodman, though. Destined for fame, dude. That's your weakness. Destined for greatness. That's my guy. He actually created a straw, like a case, and presented it to the principal of our elementary school as to why we should be allowed to, like, read X-Men comics. And he was shot down. But no, he even put... Even though he was right. Even though he was right. He left a record show.
00:34:31
Speaker
I am stunned an elementary school administrator to want to shut down the musings of one of their students. That is the most shocking takeaway from this whole episode. Reminding everyone that Mike is a ah is a a school a school counselor and so sees this kind of stuff on the regular. I'm sure.
00:35:00
Speaker
yeah
00:35:03
Speaker
Oh, I almost wanted to call you a school psychiatrist. And I'm like, is that accurate? Counselor seems more accurate. It's a kind of a school psychologist. That's what my wife does. It's all testing. Gotcha. OK, it's all in the family. m My poor kid.
00:35:19
Speaker
raised by mental health professionals she's the damage we can do it just let's put it put it that way I mean at least you understand that at least you're you're raising her to understand why therapy is important so she'll know why she needs to go later in life. Exactly. So when she's like, yeah, i I tried to convince her tonight that like my wife's father when he was alive used to wear boat ties all the time, but he would wear them with a muscle shirts.
Humor and Parenting Anecdotes
00:35:53
Speaker
And my wife, like as soon as it left my mouth, she was like, he did not. And I'm like, can you just play along for like 30 seconds? Can we just commit to a bit for a little bit around here? What's the harm?
00:36:08
Speaker
Can we just create an atmosphere where she's allowed to just wonder if something is true for the rest of her life? She knows how foolish I am. i mean Lies are hilarious, though. Definitely. Lies are hilarious. I was going to say, I'm not a parent. so i you guys um I'm going to i'm gonna have to trust you guys on this one.
00:36:26
Speaker
I'm on the opposite end of the specter on that spectrum on that one. That's fair. But I respect i game, respect game is what I'm saying. When you do it, it's the opposite end of the spectrum as in as in. Excuse me, I have trust issues ah because when my parents told me that they had been lying to me about Santa Claus being real, I never believed another word out of their mouth. Really, really?
00:36:53
Speaker
and it's given me trust issues my entire life. so Interesting. like I'm not i am in no way saying that lies are not funny because they are sometimes. Because you just said they were. Lies are hilarious. Rewind it 20 seconds, listener. You'll hear him say it himself. Lies are hilarious, but I just we have i can't get down that way.
00:37:16
Speaker
And we have kids that are interviewing this week for like this like trade school. And it's like, it's very competitive again. And so they have to interview. And I've offered like this lunch group of eighth graders. I'm like, I'm like, when they ask you, why do you want to go here? What's your answer? And they say what program I want to get an automotive or culinary or coding. I'm like, no, the answer is hot chicks. I want to go. hunts Hot chicks. And they all looked at me.
00:37:45
Speaker
And I'm like, look, I will pay one of you like $100 to say that in an interview. Like, please. And one of them was like, okay, in. And I had to chase him down and be like, I am not going to pay you $100 to- I've thought about this and this might be a bad idea. but That sounds like the kind of shit I would have done when I was teaching, honestly. I could see the call from the admin. Can you come in for this parent meeting? They want to know why you- Why the child said hot chicks. Hot chicks.
Speculating Captain America's Motives
00:38:20
Speaker
400. So this is my last year working in public education. So we're letting it all out. I mean, in America, I feel like I'm going to have fun. You should have fun. Do you think Captain America wanted to become cap because of the hot chicks? Was that like part of what Lord him? I I have to imagine that in some some version of the character that is accurate. Yeah.
00:38:47
Speaker
Like, somewhere out there is a Captain America who's like, I'm doing it for the babes. yeah Honestly, that might be the Wyatt Russell version of the character. That would be great. I feel for... Is it Sharon? Is it the blonde woman, Sharon? Yeah, the daughter. Yeah. I feel for Sharon's dad, who... Right, Jack. ...who's just living life. Like, Jack is just living life raising his kid.
00:39:13
Speaker
And thinking his wife loves him, it isn't harboring. Yeah, look, if she hadn't died, I'm pretty sure. I mean, the way they were kind of acting around each other, he was going to be out fixing that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He's not fixing those. You know, your ex-boyfriend was Captain America. Hi. like there And the answer is you don't. You don't. because and And she basically says that. He's still 25 years old. Yeah. Oh, hey. In wants to smush.
00:39:48
Speaker
i was kind of so She says Jack is a good man. He's a good father. And she trails off. And what is unsaid is he doesn't wreck my guts like you did. Like, really, that's what's there. And still could. And still could. Because you are youthful and full of of young and dumb and full of cum. Is that what they say? That's what they say. That's a saying I've heard. I don't know if that's what I've ever uttered, but it's what I've heard.
00:40:18
Speaker
I was going to say, I've heard the boomers say it for sure. First time. And but poor Jack is just like in the burka lounger, just like I want to watch my program. Just living his fucking life. just straight And he's been like for 50 years, he's been married to this bit, right? And they've had a great life. They've got a daughter. They had a wonderful home together. And all of a sudden, this motherfucker here.
00:40:43
Speaker
He comes walking through the front door and then he brings a bunch of Italian fascists like soldiers in. Like, come on, dude. and He ends up shot and his wife dead. Like, that's what Jack's reward is. Right. And then at the end of this movie, he's like, great. And now this dude who broke up my marriage is going to mock my daughter. He's going to impregnate my daughter like that is.
00:41:08
Speaker
this is fantastic this and it was going so well for him before that what there's the before captain america and after captain america and they're just so drastically different this man's life is just so drastically different after that in the span of like an hour his life falls apart in an hour If there was a sequel like Jack is your big bad of like part of the. Yes. Revenge of Jack. No, I just want you know, I just want a short one with everything that he went through in this film. I want to follow follow him to the hospital. He's in the hospital. Nobody's there with him. His family is not there to comfort him. Not even his fucking daughter, because his daughter hang in on Captain America's man is just like,
00:41:57
Speaker
just breathing and not saying anything and looking straight ahead for like 45 minutes and that's the whole movie and you're we don't even ah you need to be care enough to give this man dialogue that's that's where we're at with this guy you don't you just look at him and you have to imagine what he's thinking just cuz he's just he's so dead inside now dude like it and literally and more physically guys and just There should be a like ah scene where Captain America like pulls him
Costume Decisions and Action Movie Influences
00:42:26
Speaker
aside. He's like, just so you know, like you know I believe in wholesome values and you know your daughter and I are going to wait till marriage. you know We're going to do that. at But then he's like, but at the same time, butt stuff is on the table. So that's what we're going to do. We're doing this Catholic style. Let's go. be Yeah.
00:42:47
Speaker
or Or I want to see him lean in and go, by the way, I just wanted you to know I've been inside your wife and your daughter. Or he could shake the bed for them. They're not Mormons. I like the thing with the Mormons where they're like, oh, oops. Straight up oops. They're not from Utah. They're from Redondo Beach. Believe me, people in Redondo Beach be fucking. Is it in there again? ah How did that happen? Just bouncing around on this bed?
00:43:15
Speaker
Did they have to pay Marvel a by-the-minute like rights fee for how long Salinger wears the Captain America suit? Because I can't think of any other reason why he spends this whole like second act in like jeans and a white button down. right right That is what everybody wants.
00:43:40
Speaker
They want, you know, preppy Steve Rogers. I actually prefer him in the context of this movie in that. oh I don't want to say that is not a great costume. It's great when I see it, but it it's not fantastic. And I wouldn't want to see it in the whole movie. And I also think it's really um that the filmmakers didn't weren't really trying to make a superhero movie like they did what they had to do to make it a superhero movie.
00:44:07
Speaker
But I don't think it was their goal to make this a comic book movie. They just wanted to make it a regular ass movie with some comic characters in it. And I think having him out of the costume makes it. Sorry, Steven. You know what I'm saying? Having him out of the costume for most of that time makes it feel more grounded and not like some fantastical superhero thing. And that's also why Red Skull is all covered up anyway. Sorry, Steven, go.
00:44:33
Speaker
It's an 80s action movie. like This was released in 1990. In a lot of ways, this is an 80s action film that just happens to have some Captain America in it. and if The comic book elements, and this speaks to, again, where we are in terms of like comic book movies being made, the comic book elements kind of feel a little shoehorned in in service. ah and again this was scheduled to be a canon movie. The only thing that keeps it from being a canon movie is that Menachem Golan had but basically been fired from canon at that point. And this was part of his severance package that he got to like take this with him. So it canon movie and all but name really. And so it it feels like a 80s late 80s canon action movie. And there's a superhero in it sometimes. Yeah.
00:45:21
Speaker
Well, they do. It's they they it it's filmed pre Burton's Batman as well, which is what changes kind of the landscape in a lot of ways, 100 percent. And it's funny, you watch Burton's Batman now and you're like, this is pretty campy. Like, it's kind of funny to think like this was considered a dark and gritty film back in 1989. And it's pretty campy when you watch it now in terms of its like tone and its delivery, especially compared to what we have now. But this would have been, you know, with Captain America, like there's no blueprint for that kind of exactly, super, you know, like what Nolan does with
00:46:05
Speaker
The Dark Knight, which is like I want to make a Michael Mann film just also with a superhero. Exactly. You're not getting that in 1988, 1989. And this is I want to make a Chuck Norris action movie, but with a superhero, like really is kind of what this comes down to and what this ends up looking like is and and Albert Pyeon is a the director of this film is a canon guy. Like he's worked with canon before Menachem Golan calls him in because he's a reliable hand.
00:46:33
Speaker
and so he he makes this movie he makes a lot of changes to the script he changes the look of the red skull because he didn't think people are going to want to look at that crackly face for the entire 90 minutes and i like his squishy face it looks very squishy
Directorial Choices and Genre Evolution
00:46:48
Speaker
i liked both versions the red skull version and the the jigsaw looking version I think yes i like the original, the the early one in the movie, like that feels really like kind of gross and disturbing. And that's the one punes like we can't do this for 90 minutes. Well, that's another one where it doesn't work for 90 minutes. It loses its power, right you know, and. you
00:47:11
Speaker
in a movie like this, and you were saying, Stephen, that it's a lot like an 80s action movie, but I would also argue that it has a lot of influence from 70s action films and thrillers, especially the internationality of it all and driving around in little foreign cars and little foreign car car chases and a fucking Fiat looking like Mr. Incredible in that bitch like. I was going to say in he's dressed like a little Italian gentleman like like a guy on vacation in Italy for like a month. Yes. um It's kind of like that. Sure. An adventure action 70s 80s adventure action thriller that just happens to be about a comic book character.
00:47:49
Speaker
right and yeah And that's why, again, and you're right, Mike, we don't have the language like the language for this. The most popular superhero movie up to this point was the Christopher Reeve Superman. like that That's been the biggest one. And then Burton kind of changes the landscape the year before they finally release this one internationally, and like four years before they release it in the United States.
00:48:10
Speaker
Like it it's Burton changes the game and Nolan will do it later. And here's the thing, Nolan and ah Marvel do it the same year and Marvel's way ends up being the template for moving forward. Iron Man ends up being that template rather than the Dark Knight where it is no one's trying to make everything very grounded and real.
00:48:28
Speaker
Um, Marvel just goes, fuck it. We're just going to keep these things as true to the comic books as possible. Reality and believability be damned. And that ends up working. It was smart for them to start on a...
00:48:43
Speaker
relatively grounded character, though, to ease everybody into because now, like, if you look at Iron Man and your suspension of of disbelief in that and then like the most recent MCU thing where they're in space doing magic and shit, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wait a minute. How did we get here? How did we get here?
00:49:02
Speaker
And that's the that's the magic of of what Feige did is he kind of eases everyone into the into the waters. And then ah slow it like like the frog in the pot, like just the frog swimming around. ah You slowly ramp up that heat so you don't even know what's happening to you until you're boiled alive. yeah And Marvel the comic book movies are the only kind of movies that get made. Oh, I think what you just said there.
00:49:27
Speaker
I think we're a little bit past that now but there was a stretch of time when Marvel was was at its peak where it felt like instead of making a rom-com we'll make Thor Love and Thunder like we'll make a Thor movie with romance in it instead of making a Grounded like spy film or an action thriller will make Captain America America winter soldier Like what Marvel was doing was like we'll kind of sort of play in these genre tropes a little bit ah under the umbrella of like superhero films and that's what
00:50:04
Speaker
the theaters are being overloaded with. And there is definitely a place for those movies. Like I am not saying I'm not one of like, I'm not a huge Marvel movie fan. I'm also not against those movies being out like rising tides lift all boats. Right. ah There was a while though, where you would not get What I miss, which are the 20 to $30 million dollars made for adult dramas, psychological thrillers, erotic thrillers, slice of life movies, like coming of age movies, like things like state in Maine. I've never watched state in Maine. Tucker loves state in Maine. I love state in Maine.
00:50:51
Speaker
But I'm thinking like my daughter introduced introduced me to perks of being a wildflower. It's like one of her favorite. Wallflower? music Yeah, yeah. Wallflower, yes. And I'm like, what a delight. That's a really good movie. there's There needs to be more stuff like this right now. Right. um I've been going back and watching like a lot of films from the 70s and also like just like the 90s when I first became like a huge film
Nostalgia and Film Variety
00:51:19
Speaker
nerd. And I'm like, I miss this period in like American cinema where it felt like there were big blockbuster and event movies. But like underneath that swell, there was a lot of phenomenal like Greg. I'm going to mispronounce it but like Greg Arkai, who did
00:51:37
Speaker
the Doom generation and nowhere. Correcting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Thank you. and Who made this like phenomenal, like coming of age queer cinema that was also like incredibly fucked up and narratively all over the place. And you're like, there was an audience for it like it would find a home. Exactly. I miss a time like that. And I feel like that is a little bit of what was missing.
00:52:08
Speaker
although I do feel like the pendulum has swung a little bit more and, you know, like all things, like nothing lasts forever. forever right Like, you know, nothing is, you know, everything has its its peak and then it will fall and then maybe we'll get like another phase where, no, like Marvel is great again and there will be like a stretch of films that everybody wants to see.
00:52:33
Speaker
right but nothing ever really truly dies either which is why i would say the kind of movies that you're describing those exist but most of the time they're not coming out on in theaters, they're either just coming exclusively to streaming services, or I think your six to 10 episode TV season is kind of the new movie in a way. I don't love that. I don't either, but when it works, it's really fantastic to see. Sure. Sure. I forgot where I was going with that.
00:53:11
Speaker
Like TV is almost never allowed to end. If you have like a good first season. The kind of films that you're talking about, that stuff still exists. There's still weird stuff that's really good and stuff that's like breaking the mold. It's just not the stuff that's sometimes coming to theaters. Like one of the best things I've seen in the last 10 years, and it sucks because I can't even think of what the name of it is, was a rotoscope animated series on Amazon Prime that was two six episode seasons.
00:53:43
Speaker
That was so weird and so like nothing I'd ever seen before and not in an it insists upon itself kind of way but in a really organic kind of way that Was it's one of the most fantastic things that I've seen and it's rated high, but nobody's fucking watched it It's like that kind of is like it's out the undone. That's an issue though in Salazar films Okay, when films don't go to theaters Because there's just so much content coming out. There's too much in streaming. There's yeah, there is. You're exactly right. There's too much. It's a it's impossible to keep up with. And it's also with the algorithm, it's impossible to discover things sometimes because you're not that joy of discovery is not there where
00:54:30
Speaker
say 20, 30 years ago, there was a culture that said, OK, like, even if it's only in a handful of theaters in a small amount of cities, just getting your film in a theater, I think, was automatically going to kind of raise the profile of that film. And you see that with horror still. um What IFC and Shutter and Neon have been able to do is like you get these titles like late night with the devil. It's a wonderful knife, Arcadia, that gets even a limited where evil arcs that get this limited theatrical run. And in some cases, you get massive hits like the substance ends up being a massive hit and is going to win some Oscars. Oh, wait for sure. Yeah. theyre If that was just a straight to streaming film,
00:55:24
Speaker
You just kind of forget about it. Like it just has a moment. Like maybe it gets some great profiles for a weekend and it hits some of your favorite letterboxers reviews, but then it kind of goes away. Right. Yeah.
00:55:40
Speaker
It all feels very disposable these days, too, because even when I do see something that's like super profound, it doesn't hit me the same way it would have when I wasn't just constantly braided with so much content all the time. Like I'm always watching something like i I don't like it, but I'm always looking at a fucking screen for some reason or another. Like I've never turned off.
00:56:04
Speaker
So, like, it's not as exciting as it was when you'd be out doing stuff and you'd be like, oh, shit, i'm I'm going to stop by the video store and I have a limited time to pick something out. And that's what I have to take home and watch. And I'm stuck with it for two days. You know, yep it's it's also just it all feels so disposable. And that's it's a shame. I'm trying to try to figure out how to make it not feel like that anymore.
00:56:31
Speaker
right I miss the thrill of the hunt. I miss when yeah i miss hearing about a band and like driving to record stores and finding that seven-inch record, like finding that band demo. And after like five places not having it,
00:56:53
Speaker
being able to get my hands on it. like That is something that is like thrilling and exciting that is lost when it just pops up in your daily playlist or someone mentions them to you and you just, with a few clicks on your phone, it's like, great, their whole discography is right in front of me. And the stakes were higher.
00:57:16
Speaker
Yeah, back then, like you had to figure out you had to like even when you bought something blind like that. That's one thing I will concede I as much as I hate the way that streaming services pay their artists. I think music streaming is fantastic, because I don't have to buy a record blind anymore.
00:57:35
Speaker
sure There's been so many CDs and records that I bought that I'm like, oh, I'm probably gonna like this and I buy it and I fucking hate it. And that's like $15 in 1997 money. You guys, that's a lot for something I'm never gonna listen to again. Like with music streaming, like that's the reason I have so much vinyl now is because before music streaming, I was afraid to buy blindly unless it was like a goodwill. And you can't find good records at goodwill anymore. so You can know streaming has saved me because if there's something I think I might like I can listen to it and be like Oh, yeah, I could listen to this over and over again. I should buy it on vinyl Yeah, I don't remember how you got me on that rant but
00:58:18
Speaker
Well, I mean, the thrill of the hunt. And, you know, in some ways, I do get that. I mean, I so i can still get that, though, just by because for me, I'm constantly i'm I guess I'm less of a hunter and more of a gatherer. So when like my friends are coming in and talking about like when when all the When the hosts of the Pod and the Pendulum are all chatting about like a ah good horror movie, or something to watch or something that they is like when you and Ari went to Telluride this year, and were given all your festival recommendations, I was, I was taking notes and I didn't get to see them until much later.
00:58:54
Speaker
And that top 10, after that top 10 episode, I had a my watch list like grew exponentially. And I was seeking out and watching stuff that my partner and I watched Red Rooms and were fucking blown away by it. Like we got to have those. And for me, those are the fun discoveries. And I love when my friends bring me that stuff, like, and I, and I get to say like, which of, and and basically helped me suss out what, what of this is worthwhile?
00:59:20
Speaker
What if this is worth checking out? And when when someone comes to me with a personalized recommendation and says, I think you would really dig this, then I get to like click on and go, okay, I was curious. I had questions. Those have been resolved. Let me check this out and let me engage with this piece now.
00:59:38
Speaker
And and i I find that i so many more of my watch experiences are ah are more beneficial when in in that mold. So it's i'm again, less of a hunter, more of a gatherer, but but bring me your recommendations. What are the movies you think I would like? And i I'll check them out eventually. Maybe not right away, but I'll get there.
00:59:59
Speaker
yeah As Tucker can attest, maybe not immediately, but I'll get there. He'll get there. He always gets there. Well, and on that note too, I do miss that. And like Tucker, you just hit it because things caught so much now. It is a lot riskier to just blind by or just take a chance on something. We watched last night, we did Family Movie Night was Jackie Brown.
01:00:21
Speaker
Because that was our my wife and I is like first date like 21 years ago. Oh, I love to like a midnight screening of that, ah which if you don't know my wife, getting her to go out at midnight was like, it's Jackie Brown feet. Right. But you get me out of bed for Jackie Brown and you can wake me up out of bed and say we're going to see Jackie Brown and be like, OK.
01:00:44
Speaker
Absolutely. Robert Forrester has a line in that where he's like, I'm going to a movie. Like, what are you going to see? Don't know, but whatever is playing soon and looks good. And I kind of miss that, that kind of like, like what you mentioned, Tucker, like going to the video store and going through like the cover art, the poster art and being like, this looks fucking great. Like I never would have watched the subspecies movies, if that box art didn't look fucking amazing. And now, like, I don't want to live in a world where I haven't watched subspecies to fucking 400 times. That's fair. You know, it's very fair. Yes. That's amazing. I love that so much.
01:01:28
Speaker
Have we talked about this movie for more than four minutes? That's kind of the thing about this podcast. It's like we talk about movies, but also we goof around a bit. you you know And honestly, I love i love these these conversations are some of my favorites in these episodes. We're talking about the 1990 Matt Salinger Albert Pyeon um Captain America film. And yet we're having a state having a conversation about the state of modern movie going and in mind modern film watching. And i I love that we're able to get there from here.
01:02:01
Speaker
I think what was to be a very tangential podcast where we just go on a lot of tangents. Now it feels like probably in the last eight to 10 months that we moved more towards just using the film as a springboard to talk about the things we really want to talk about. Right. There we go. We keep in context. We always it always, you know.
01:02:24
Speaker
like This movie is the reason why J.D. Salinger became a recluse, right? but Why? So disappointed. I don't know. though Did he see the movie? It's badass. I used the word badass to describe it. I don't use the word badass.
01:02:41
Speaker
it's and It's definitely, I would call this an enjoyable rump because it feels like I think you had said, Steven, everybody is trying very hard, but like Ronnie Cox, like he knows what he's doing. he you know He knows exactly the kind of movie that he's in here. Let me just say, Ronnie Cox said of the script for this movie in an interview with Retro Junk that this movie remains to this day the finest script I have ever read.
01:03:10
Speaker
how those guys messed that film up, I will never know. Wow. I don't know, man. That is, and again, Ronnie Cox is an actor. Like, he's been in a lot of stuff, and this was the best script he'd ever read.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, like to have a Gavin. Yeah, it's not often you get the dad from a Christmas story and the dad from Happy Gilmore. Right. He's just and he's just get there. Great. And then when he gets caught at the end, he's like, oh, oh, hey, you still love it so much. like I hate the whole work. Hilarious.
01:03:50
Speaker
The Night Stalker himself just fucking killing it. That's crazy. What? come your on what oh how Hey, Mr. President, how's it going? Like, oh my God, just. And again, he knows exactly what movie he's in. He knows exactly how to pitch it. Like he's doing exactly what he should be doing.
01:04:12
Speaker
And it's fucking amazing. Yeah, he's he is like the grown ups in this movie are so great. Like I love and Ned Beatty to like, he chomping on his pencil just looking all like stressed and studious and um to to to kind of loop back around to a point that you made earlier, ah Mike, about like Captain America, how he's this kind of iconic symbol of the 40s. And that's that's definitely what the MCU does with him, for sure. like We get a whole movie establishing him in the 40s before we even bring him to the present day, which is smart. um this movie is able to spend like This movie doesn't have the time to really dig into that as much as it probably should.
01:04:55
Speaker
But I think what it does, and I think Ned Beatty's character speaks to this, is he becomes kind of an urban legend. He becomes kind of a conspiracy. And so it's only these crazy guys like Ned Beatty's character, like Sam, who's like, no, but you don't understand, there's this guy out there called the Red Skull, and he fought this guy called Captain America. And he went down in and like, who's like putting it all together and like, making the Charlie Day, like,
01:05:21
Speaker
Why, like, yarn ah connection board in his, in his office, like, chomping on his pencils. Like, making a meal out of his pencils. Like, oh, I'm not getting enough fiber chomp, chomp, chomp pencil. Like, that's, I think that's what this movie is trying to do with it. And it, I don't think it works for like a broader context, but I think it works for this movie in particular, particularly because you've gotten Ed Beatty's character in here. I think that sells it personally. Agreed. Hard agree.
01:05:54
Speaker
Does the secret service not exist in this movie? No, not at all. Look, and when he calls, he's like, I know I wouldn't believe it either, but you gotta to believe me. Like, there's passcodes, right? Like, he would be able to call and be like, say a series of words and maybe numbers and letters, and they'd be all like, hello, Mr. President, I'll patch you right in, motherfucker. Click.
01:06:15
Speaker
Right. I don't think they call the president a motherfucker. But other than that, I think you're right. Depends on how down they are. I I do. like And I got to say it was refreshing to have like a president that was like, look, it's going to be medicine. No one wants to take their medicine. She's got to take it now. Otherwise, like there's going to be a lot of pain later. It's like, oh, like what a refreshing message. Like someone it was almost like Again, finally, there's grown up in the room. But like, if like Joe Biden's like cognitive had it cognitively, cognitively declined so much before assuming the presidency, that kind of plain speak that he could have done, like that would have been like Ronnie Cox's president, you know, except what we got as a guy, they had to hide away.
01:07:07
Speaker
For four years and they I'm not sure the shit out of people too in this movie like he is in there, dude He was no president right cross. Yeah did yeah shoot in Nazis like remember when presidents wanted to shoot Nazis you go y'all remember Air Force one with Harrison Ford Get off my plane. Yeah, dude. That's the press. That's that's my president, you guys. That's my he's also going to be your president and Captain America Brave New World, too. That's yeah, but it's General Ross and he was except when he's punching people, he's going to be punching people as the Red Hulk. But it makes me sad that that other guy died, though, because I really liked him. William Hurt. He William Hurt. We love the big hurt. Yeah, the big hurts. Great. Do you think Harrison Ford knows that he's like a Hulk character like?
01:07:58
Speaker
deep Like, honest to God, like, when he goes to the premiere and watches, if he watches the movie, like, if Harrison Ford, like, even watches the movie, could you blame, like, 80-something-year-old Harrison Ford to be like, I'm not, no, the check cleared. I'm not fucking going to this. Are you kidding me? I'm good, thank you. Did he say, I only have so many hours left on this planet? I am certainly not.
01:08:27
Speaker
But do you think he's like when the red hole shows up, he's going to be like, what the fuck is that? Harrison, that that's your character. He's like, I win. I don't remember sitting in a makeup chair like what the fuck? As as funny as that is in the interviews that I've heard, he seems very enthusiastic about this film. Like he had a fun time with it and like he's into it and he like he's like, I want to do another one like right away.
01:08:54
Speaker
Which is, again... character and least so too because harrison ford like does not get excited about notoriously grumpy in the best gospel way Which tells me one thing about about this movie. He got paid a whole fucking lot of money for it. Because that's about the only way to get that man excited anymore.
01:09:13
Speaker
he had to build another you know just to put the money in That's it. As far as I know, the only thing Harrison Ford really gets excited about is like Vore erotica. That, as far as I know, is the only thing that really floats Harrison Ford's boat. That's what I've heard. That's if you if he was like, look, can we get like somehow like the Vore subculture represented in like Dial of Destiny? Like in there like, no, we can't do that. and No, not again. Sorry.
01:09:46
Speaker
It's got to be Nazi to get it. Well, contractually, the only villains, Indiana Jones, are are able to take down our Nazis. And let me just see here. We have and we have Hindu deities and we have that crossed out five times circled and aligned through it. Apparently, we can't do that anymore. So it's got to be Nazi. Sorry. I'm just going to say Crystal Skull so much better than Dial of Destiny.
01:10:10
Speaker
Yes, and it's not an equal need. Old man, sad, Indiana Jones. Can I just want to die? Like, I don't want that. Can I tell you that I liked all of those movies with the exception of Raiders pretty much equally? ah I mean, when you say with the exception of Raiders,
01:10:31
Speaker
I think Raiders is the best. Yeah. Correct. Yes. OK. Not sure to say that piece of trash, including no, including that's not that hot of a take. Golly, give me some credit. ah But I thought Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and I thought Dial of Destiny were.
01:10:47
Speaker
Good. Like they they're not great. They're not fantastic. But I had a good time. I recognized their faults. But then again, you're talking to a guy who kind of like high key actually dug the flash. So that's true. You did enjoy Andy Muchetti's The Flash. I've seen it four times by. What is wrong with you? Wasn't force. No one forced me is what I'm saying. That's why I'm asking and what is wrong with you. I know I'm wrong.
01:11:18
Speaker
I'm just saying, just know who you're talking to when you consider my opinions. Sometimes I feel like I need to take Tucker's recommendations with a grain of salt, but I think he knows my taste well enough to know when something will will like when I will enjoy something versus this is something that I like that I'm going to subject you to. I i would never on i would never purposefully um Have you watched something or suggest something to you that I thought that you would dislike? I would suggest something to you that I think that you would respect, but maybe not enjoy something you would appreciate. You know what I mean? There's some movies where like I'm like, yeah, I didn't. That's that's not for me, but I get it. Like, that's really rad. Like, I would suggest something like that to you. But I'd never suggest something where like, oh, he's going to hate it. Fuck this guy. Watch this because I like it.
01:12:14
Speaker
ah
01:12:17
Speaker
i am kai recommendations are tough because I feel like if you give someone a recommendation and they reject it, like they're rejecting a part of you.
01:12:28
Speaker
Sometimes. Yeah, it's hard to not take that personal sometimes, especially if it's like a deeply felt recommendation. I don't know if the would the flash be a deeply felt recommendation or would that be? I don't know who I would reject that to. I don't know who I would. There's no one that's close to me that I would recommend the flash to because I realize it's not. good I know it's not good, but damn it, if I don't have fun for like three hours,
01:12:56
Speaker
having just a fucking blast. And that I can't explain it. I know it's bad, but your boy's having fun, so I'm watching it again. And to be honest, I will watch a movie that's not great, that I'm having fun watching. yeah Maybe sometimes before watching a movie that is really great, that I'm not having as much fun watching. sure I do respect the classics. you know i do have I am a snooty,
01:13:22
Speaker
filmgoers. I like snooty movies, too. I've seen French films, okay? I own silent films, you guys. Come on. But also, I like some old bullshit, too. Which might explain your love for Captain America 1990, a movie that I think is fun. It's fun. This is fun. No, that's what I'm saying, too.
01:13:46
Speaker
ah Like this movie is a lot of, and it feels compared to the modern superhero landscape, it feels like a breath of fresh air. Cause I don't have to watch 20 movies to know what's going on here. I can just pop this in and it's going to tell me everything I need to know. And it may not be comic accurate, sit down, shut up nerd.
01:14:04
Speaker
But I'm going to have fun with it. I'm going to love the fact that like this is a movie where a ah a guy in a comic-accurate Captain America suit punches the shit out of some technically not Nazis Italian businessmen. like like some neo-fascists who are masquerading as mobsters or something. but The villains don't make sense in this movie. And i I was trying to figure out why they decided to make them all Italian as opposed to German, and I can find nothing. Because of where they shot, probably. They're probably more Italian actors than that. Probably. I think modern Yugoslavia, or what was formerly known as Yugoslavia. Well, I think that's a little much in Italy than it is Germany.
01:14:45
Speaker
and they Yeah, i looking that up, filming, blah, blah, blah, blah, plan to shoot on location in Italy, move to cheaper Yugoslavia. Which feels like we're not going to move, honestly. Like that that guy knew how to pinch some pennies, but yeah. Yeah.
01:15:03
Speaker
same with rogerda carman but like yeah it is So i I couldn't tell you either like why the villains I do think another running gag and this is just how incompetent the villains are like to keep the game of cat and mouse is very, very fun and like Captain America riding away on a bike and yeah yeah falling in the water and they're like, where did he go? The ocean is so big. He could be running there. My favorite is at the end when the president like kicks in the print like the door of the like thousand year old Italian castle, closes it quietly and then runs into a corner and then like four people walk in. They can see he's physically not there, but they still try to open the door with the king.
01:15:49
Speaker
Like I'm just like, come on, guys. I don't know if it's that or when Cap and Sharon are in like the basement of the old diner and they just hide underneath the stairs where you can visibly see them. yeah And then they like sneak down stairs. Yeah. Like all you need to do is literally turn your head to the left, and it's like, oh, there you are. It's like the worst game of hide and go seek ever. It's pretty great. it's the Those elements are hilarious. Again, that this movie is fun. We're having a good time, even if it even if these villains are cartoonishly incompetent, even if the the actor playing the villain, the actor, by the way, from Ohio, ah sounds more like Bela Lugosi than he does like an Italian gentleman.
01:16:44
Speaker
um That accent is suspicious. um the The kid, the the the guy that plays Red Skull as a kid, he's he's Italian, which is probably why he speaks it so effortlessly. The kid on the tape.
01:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, the kid on the tape. That guy. Do you think he went method and had them really shoot his mother? You know, just for the film, like he was an early young method actor. he' Like a like a Victor Fleming move where, you know, you drag the kid aside and say, we just shot your dog outside and the kid starts crying. He's like, great, that's all I needed. Bring in the dog like and shit like that.
01:17:26
Speaker
yeah Oh, God, this this is really so good on set, firing real guns and punching people in the face to get that emotion. I do love Billy. I guess he is one of the one of the crankiest, most irascible filmmakers ever to ever to do the job. He made that we talked about him.
01:17:47
Speaker
Yes, with Benicio Del Toro, Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah. One of one of the many movies where Tommy Lee Jones plays a marshal trying to chase down a fugitive from justice. They could have made that US Marshals 2 or the Fugitive 3 or US Marshals Return of the Fugitive Part 3. And Harrison Ford makes the cameo. Rules of engagement.
Quest for Rare Films and Directorial Dedication
01:18:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:12
Speaker
yeah OK, that movie was very racist. Yes, it was. Billy, what were you what were you thinking? I mean, I knew he was there are a lot of movies in his film. ah Have you gotten to The Guardian yet? Oh, I have not. Might be the worst film he's ever made. Honestly. Good luck finding a rampage. That movie does not exist anymore. It is impossible to watch legally in this country. I'm convinced like it's against the law to watch it.
01:18:43
Speaker
No, I mean, you can't find it on physical media. like like They were gonna come arrest you if you'd like, if you watch it, I would call the police and they would come and get you. And your phone would be watching that fucking movie or whatever. No, it's not streaming anywhere. The last time it was released was on VHS.
01:19:03
Speaker
Go on sale for like 50 bucks. So it's impossible to find. So good luck finding. ground What if it's on you? It's not a team it's not like a make of the arcade game. No, I wish we would. I think that rampage came out the same year as this movie. That was with The Rock Boy. A few years earlier with 80s in our previous episode on The Rock's rampage. um No, this was 1987. It's a Michael Bean movie. And it's it.
01:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, it it has problems, but yeah, not that I've seen it. I don't think it's on YouTube, but I just found ah you're probably finding it a library.
01:19:45
Speaker
I just found the arrow Blu-ray of cruising used for like 15 bucks. I scoop that up. I'm going to just make sure nobody is home when I'm watching that because definitely not. Yeah. My daughter walked in when I was watching the Doom generation and she's like she walked in during one of those scenes and she's like, yeah, the fuck are you watching? Valid question. And here's the thing. Cruising is like there's a.
01:20:13
Speaker
He filming is that because because Billy Friedkin is such a stickler for realism. He legitimately filmed that movie in actual like leather bars and SM clubs in San Francisco because he is that kind of madman. Yeah, that guy. Yeah. So I'll wait till like nobody is home for a couple hours before that's smart. But Crimson is a fucking great movie. And I think you're going to have time.
01:20:41
Speaker
a sorcerer was turned down last night for family movie night. Oh, my daughter was sacked. Well, yeah I think it was it's a bit. She's like, this seems like a bit much for me. So she was like, I don't think I'm going to be able to follow this. So I'm like, fair enough. Well, that's fair. Throw something else on. What did you watch instead?
01:21:00
Speaker
Jackie Brown. Oh, yeah. So what what we had this coming back to that. She really dug. Yeah, but she really dug. You guys like this is fucking great. I think she was so mad when they don't explicitly get together at the end. And I'm like, but that's the beauty. You can write your own head. I love them. they're Exactly. You.
Appreciating Tarantino's Mature Storytelling
01:21:20
Speaker
Yes.
01:21:20
Speaker
across 110th Street. So Robert Forrest is so good in that movie. Yeah. And he does so much. Why did he was in that movie? He's just he doesn't say as much. He really I'm sorry. I don't mean to derail you. I just I really love that movie. I love it. So it's a phenomenal movie. It's the only one of Tarantino's films that I haven't. And I think I will never outgrow.
01:21:44
Speaker
Like as I get older, there are some films where like I liked them before and I still respect them. But that's just not for me anymore. And that's the majority of Quentin Tarantino's catalog. But Jackie Brown will never fall out of that. Such a weird movie to make for your third film, too, because his first two films were so. I don't know. And maybe it's it's ellen maybe it's the story that it's based on that brings a maturity to the material.
01:22:10
Speaker
But it's such a more like mature film, just in... It is. It's tone and the way it handles violence. and it's just it's I love that movie so much. I could talk for hours about Jackie Brown. It's really good. It's really good. I wonder if you go back and revisit like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which I also feel like is a more...
01:22:37
Speaker
Mature work work for him and I know you get the third act and you get the like Revisionist like what he wishes history. I think what we all wish history right at the end of that film But before that it is just like a two-hour hang And it is gorgeously shot and it's revolves around to I want to spend Time with these men. I want to see where this goes. Yeah, I I think the whole like 10 movie rule is bullshit. I think it's
01:23:07
Speaker
It's you know, I think it's kind of getting up your own ass a little bit and I'm not someone who's outgrown his movies. Quentin up his own ass? No. I would say that. I still like death proof too, but that's different. Oh, yeah. But if you wanted to end on that note, like that would be the perfect.
01:23:26
Speaker
nope to end on he could have made never made another film and even though like i still still great kill bill fantastic v you know all that stuff is great but it's just not i don't feel like it's for me anymore but like i said jackie brown it exists so much outside of what his his usual output is and that's not to say that he doesn't change as a director and as a storyteller but i think he does kind of have a path that he follows with Jackie Brown is so. And like I said, I think it's because it might be because it's an adaptation where all of his other stuff is stuff he's written. And this is from a book. So maybe that kind of brings a bit of that. So he has a lane. He definitely has a lane and he can change lanes, but like he has something he likes to do. They think you've seen that ever since Kill Bill, and he's kind of been in that
01:24:23
Speaker
Similarly, and I think Once Upon a Time is the first time he's really shifted out of that in a long while. um I adore that movie. Like to me, like it's ah it's really good, nearly three hours and it doesn't feel like it. Like it never feels like it's going on. It's so it never feels so weirdly cozy movie, too. It is like based just with the subject matter, you could like curl up in a blanket and watch that movie and just feel really great. Like the whole time, I think even the third act.
01:24:53
Speaker
I have found like blanket movies for me right now. Like I rewatched Neil Simon's The Odd Couple. Oh, yeah. We had a snow day. And I think it's one of the greatest depictions ah you you have like in here with Ronnie Cox and Ned Beattie, a friend male friendship that spans, you know, a lifetime.
Male Friendship in 'The Odd Couple'
01:25:14
Speaker
But I think the odd couple you have like ah ah one of the best depictions of male friendship and male love that's ever been brought to screen. Like I don't think it's been topped in a lot of ways. um And Matthau's breakdown at the end of the movie when he's like, you know, before you moved in, I was a wreck. I was
01:25:39
Speaker
you know, faking like I was doing really well. ah But now you've moved in and I'm miserable and I just want to die. Just like you've ruined me in three weeks. Like it's such a moment of honest male vulnerable vulnerability that was not seen on screen in that era. And it's just wickedly funny. Like the two of them are just incredibly funny together.
01:26:04
Speaker
Neil Simon is such a ah sharp writer. And when when you can hit his rhythms, there's nothing quite like it. v And, you know, you might say the same for Tolkien, the Stephen Tolkien, the writer of Captain America. It's not J.R.R. Tolkien writing in pseudonym. Correct. the issue Not this time. Not this time. this time It's Steven Tolkien spelled T-O-L-K-I-N. And he mostly wrote for television, ah TV shows like Brothers and Sisters, Switched at Birth, Perception. um he's Speaking of Neil Simon, ah like Simon was a writer on, um ah his father, Steven Tolkien's father was a writer on your show of shows, The Sid Caesar Show. Mm-hmm.
01:26:56
Speaker
Um, so, you know, um, but that's kind of how he got his start, got his in and, uh, is, yeah, he's just a guy who like, uh, right. But this is his first movie script that he writes is Captain
Script and Casting of 'Captain America'
01:27:09
Speaker
America. Good for him. It's a good one. The the best, the original, some would say be the original script apparently had a lot more characters, had a lot more going on. and Um, according to, uh, Wikipedia, they said that they were going to try to put, uh, the Falcon, um,
01:27:27
Speaker
one of the Zemos, Baron Zemo and Bucky on the original budget. I don't think Canon was originally trying to make this in the 80s with Jeff Bridges as Captain America and Peter Fonda as the red skull, which would have been interesting. I would have watched that.
01:27:47
Speaker
That could have been fun. But yeah, then um this was ah ah when Menachem Golan manachegolan left Canon, this movie went with him. At at various points in production, Michael Dudekoff was set to play ah Captain America. At one point, Steve James was from Delta Force was looked at to play ah Sam Wilson, ah the Falcon.
01:28:15
Speaker
um And yeah, and this was the movie that came out. Like they looked at apparently Dolph Lundgren, Arnold Schwarzenegger. I could see Dolph Lundgren in this role. I don't think it would have been as good, but he would have been OK. I think he wouldn't have ruined it. He was working on future episode of this podcast, The Punisher Punisher. Yeah. So he couldn't have done this one. We are going to watch one of these days. So excited. One of these days, I want to do just all three Punisher movies in a row. Oh, I'm into that. Yeah. I like all those movies for different reasons.
01:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, we might have to do it when, like, there's a new Punisher thing coming out that's not Daredevil, because obviously we're covering the Ben Affleck Daredevil with the lawn at the end of the month. Yes, director's cut, right? We need to confirm that it's director's cut. If I can find the director's cut to watch, then you can. You can. I promise you can. I'll make sure that you can, Steven. I would like to try to watch both versions if possible. A winter job. Can you believe that? Who works in the winter? Oh. Apparently Tucker. This year I do. Oh, it sucks.
01:29:16
Speaker
At one point, at one point, Matt Salinger was supposed to play pre Super Soldier Steve Rogers, and then Howie Long was supposed to play post Super Soldier Steve Rogers. See, that's what I was thinking when, like, when it was beginning, when I was still under the impression that the Space Mutiny guy was in this, I was like, oh, this guy, maybe he's Steve Rogers before. But I was like, but he's kind of buff. Are they trying to make him not look buff? Because he's kind of already buff. Like, he's pretty much there.
01:29:45
Speaker
Marvel insisted on one actor and they went with Salinger over Howie Long, probably because only one of those actors was in Revenge of the Nerds. Yeah, dude, but he was good in this though. I would say that was a good choice. Yes. Damn.
01:30:00
Speaker
He nailed it, especially the car bit. Like he had me convinced every time I'm like, Oh, is he actually getting sick? No, he fooled me every time. That's why it was so funny. I was like, Oh, I hope he's, I hope he's okay. And then he drives off and I'm like, Oh, got me again. And then at the end, she does it to him. She does it to him at the end. And he's like, wait, what? I'm like, dude, you've been pulling this trick the whole time and you can't see it coming. And that's what he says. So that's what that feels like.
01:30:33
Speaker
Just like Batman.
01:30:36
Speaker
Oh, we love you, Christian Bale. What a man. What a man. um But yeah, no, I had a lot of fun with this movie. Like parts of it it did hold up to my me to my recollection of it. Like I had as much fun watching it this time as I did when I was a kid.
Simple Fun of Older Superhero Movies
01:30:51
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's not a great film, like canonically, not it like one of the great pieces of cinema. But damn it, if I'm not having a good time watching this movie, they're part of it is nostalgia. I will I will concede. But I'm also just have like superhero movies aren't fun like this anymore. Like, there's always like, everyone's got world ending stakes, there's a fucking skybeam about to destroy a city. and Look, you know, and nobody making this movie gives a fuck about an Easter egg or even knows what it is. They're just making a movie. They're like, I don't, I'm not trying to fucking give nerds erections, man, I'm just trying to make a good movie.
01:31:26
Speaker
doors open for a sequel, but we're not spelling it out for you. Hey, guys, stick around for the next one. captain make yeah you So who knows? Exactly. And that's it. Like, we're ready to fight like you're fighting. You're still fighting. We're still fighting. That's the end of the movie. Let's make more.
01:31:42
Speaker
There's about a 15 second period of this movie where they're like, Oh yeah, I'm going to blow up all of Europe. Like 70 million people will die in that plot thread last 15 seconds. yeah i make subboards oh It's like the stakes get really high for a second.
01:32:01
Speaker
But only a second. Like again, this movie is all in all about like destroying things for a very brief amount of time. Jack's life is destroyed at an hour. The world is is in danger for about 15 seconds. Like just very brief spurts of danger in this movie. I will tell you there is there's one thing that you've made me think of this. There is one thing that I did not like about this movie. Now when you mention that mentioned that.
01:32:26
Speaker
And it's that the playing the tape didn't I wanted that to have more of an impact. I wanted like Red Skull is kind of even without trying and maybe trying not to be a complicated character in this. Like his origins are complicated. He's a victim.
01:32:45
Speaker
Red Skull's a fucking victim. And like, I kind of wanted that to pay off. When he played the tape, he'd be like, oh, fuck, I realize I sucked like my whole life, like, ah like straight up take me to jail or something. I wanted there to be some sort of.
01:32:59
Speaker
because they sort of built it up to be. Even when his daughter, like she kind of looked at it like, oh, that's fucked up. But then that never nothing ever came of that. She wasn't like, oh, Daddy, stop, you know, or anything. No, Daddy, Daddy, no. Like I wanted that to have a bigger emotional payoff because it is a disturbing thing, like what happened to that kid. And like every time they play that tape, it's like, that's fucked up.
01:33:23
Speaker
Every time. That's not this movie, though. That's not this movie. This movie is not going for emotion. And that was the only that was the old. That's what when you when I give you my rating, that's why it is what it is because of that one. It's that one. I still love this. The shit out of this movie, though. I'm going to watch it again soon, probably within the next two weeks.
01:33:44
Speaker
Yeah, because I want to watch it on. I watched half of it last night and then I watched it in pieces today because the boy was around and it was everything was crazy. And I really just want to sit down and take it all in. Because if I had much fun with this in pieces, boy, I think it's just going to blow my mind. All this one. thing Do you think it's worth like hunting down? Because there is a director's cut of
Nostalgia and Film Preferences
01:34:10
Speaker
this.
01:34:10
Speaker
Like I'd watch it I'd be interested for sure and my understanding is it takes like that first act which is set in the 40s and It intersperses it throughout the film in like flashbacks and there's a little bit to World building so I don't know like I'm not I'm not sure about it I'm interested is what I'm say I would watch it if someone were like this is where this is you can watch it I would do that. Mm-hmm pretty immediately. Shout Factory, I think, did release a collector's edition Blu-ray. So it may be on there.
01:34:50
Speaker
But I know there are always two of the Lord's work. Yeah, when i I remember I heard when um First Avenger was coming out, Albert Peon actually like did a road show with this with his director's cut of this movie and like sold out a couple of shows in like Las Vegas and and Houston, like just showing this movie in theaters. And I'm assuming having Q and A's after it. But yeah, like
01:35:17
Speaker
ah that is fascinating to me that is yeah this this movie has a cult following people like it I get it I'm part of it now thank you for making me watch this movie Steven I know I give you a lot of shit for all the god-awful movies that you make me watch i do Make you watch a lot of shit for this move for the show this show this makes up for it every time one of these hits like this It's like I don't even give a shit. Oh, I forgive me for this spirit last week. I would watch a hundred spirits for For one Captain America see you and I truly truly would right on special special movie you guys
01:35:59
Speaker
and And look, it's totally free to watch on YouTube. So go find it on YouTube. Literally the whole damn movie is on YouTube. Even though this is the first time I saw this, this felt very nostalgic for me just because of the way this film is presented. It's so of a certain time, especially since I'm not familiar with it.
01:36:18
Speaker
It kind of takes me back there a bit. And I'm not a nostalgic guy. I always say nostalgia is the opiate of the boring, which is really stupid. But I think it's kind of funny. So I say it anyway. But I don't know something like this. I don't feel guilty about because, like, it's not real nostalgia. Right. It's a I don't know, maybe mental illness. Who knows? It's something a little bit. Call me a little bit. Call me. Yeah.
01:36:47
Speaker
it's every And that's fine. No. My final thoughts on Captain America or any additional thoughts on Captain America? I i had a lot of fun with it. like it To both of your points, like it is very much of a time when you know like you could get a movie like this and it would find a little bit of a niche audience. Steven, to your point, like you have like a lot of fond memories of growing up watching and it's almost like with I saw the TV glow like there's the yeah scenes or they have the the I'm trying to get the name of the show. The Pinko Pake. Yes. When she goes when he goes back and watches it at the end and it's just streaming and it's like a completely yeah different show than what he remembers. Like it's kind of funny how that can work. But this definitely has that almost Saturday afternoon like matinee on your local UHF.
01:37:46
Speaker
Affiliate that's a hundred percent when it was yeah, and that was kind of a wonderful time I mean that was kind of a it's this is the kind of movie that if you're like scrolling through to be you're probably never Gonna like land on and go like oh, this is what I'm gonna watch right now, but like flipping through like ten stations this comes on you're like oh going to sit through it. Again, just is it faithful to the comics? No. Is it a bit ridiculous? Absolutely. um or Is it odd that there doesn't seem to be a score to it? Like it seems like it's just um temp-tracked in some places and that's it. But that female is so fun when it kicks in and starts going. I'm i'm getting amped.
01:38:36
Speaker
And then when he's leaving town, I'm like, is this, did someone like crib Angelo bottle of mente in here? Cause it sounds like twin pigs. What's going on? So it was something. It was absolutely the best I can say is this movie is definitely it's something else. I really enjoyed it. I am not sorry. I can't say I'm going to go back and like revisit this movie at term, but um it it was I will watch that. If you had to say you can only watch this or The Exorcist, The Heretic.
01:39:09
Speaker
I am choosing Captain America, 1990's Captain America. As you should. um Definitely, definitely a better movie and it's not even close. ah This is kind of a textbook definition of a hangover movie for me. Like if I'm like too hungover to like get off the couch, um I'm putting like something like Captain America where you can just kind of like snooze in and out and still feel okay. Like that's this movie for me. Like I could absolutely watch this as a hangover movie, 100%.
01:39:38
Speaker
Um, and yeah, it's, it's as fun as I remember it being like, are the, are the plastic ears goofy as hell? Yes. Do I carry even a little bit? No, I really don't. That's what it is. I didn't notice until like, not kidding the last 20 minutes. And I was like, wait a minute. What the fuck? Yeah. So I got lucky. I just wasn't paying attention, I guess to his ears.
01:40:03
Speaker
Well, that's when they were obvious costume. And the thing is, he's oh almost never in his costume. Right. And the but the costume is incredibly comic book. It is the because that's the way he wore them in the comics. They actually originally just had his actual ears. Why'd they put chafing Tucker? It chafed like a motherfucker. You better lotion that shit up.
01:40:29
Speaker
and It was so it was easier to just put the plastic ears on and the only reason it's visible at the end is because they're actually filming a natural light. Like that's it. That's the reason that's why the only reason I noticed it maybe right is because at that end.
01:40:44
Speaker
Like the editing is kind of ridiculous in this movie, but again, it it's it's of that time. It's of that like that kind of late 80s canon style action aesthetic that was so popular for like 10 minutes in the 80s. For a few years, canon movies were... hits.
Canon Films' Style and 'Captain America' Release
01:41:05
Speaker
Like we've talked about a few Canon movies on this podcast, we'll talk about others, but it's very much of that style and of that place. And there's there's a part of me that can't help is ridiculous and silly. And I'll be honest, stupid as this movie is at some points, I can't help but kind of love it. Like it it's it's is it is it great? No. But do I like it? Yeah, I do. I truly do.
01:41:30
Speaker
Um, Tucker any any last words before we move on to the box office? Tell me tell me about the box office, Steven. So this film was not released theatrically in the United States. ah So it it has no domestic box office numbers whatsoever. It was however released internationally in 1990 to coincide with the anniversary of Captain America. ah The 50th anniversary of Captain America damn to be to be clear. Yeah. yeah So um it didn't end up getting released in the United States until the 92. It was direct to video and direct to TV, which is how I started watching. Yeah.
01:42:10
Speaker
Yeah, so the um the the week it was officially got a US release on video was July 24 1992. So that's the box office I'm doing. Okay. um In the number one spot a movie I need to see because I've i ive have heard enough about it and I just need to knock it off my blind spot list. ah Is the Damon Wayans film Mo Money?
01:42:34
Speaker
Hey, okay. Yeah. Opening at number one that weekend. Yes, I need to. I think you'll appreciate it. I think I will too. Again, it's been on my list for a while. I just need to like buckle down and actually watch it. Number two, in its second weekend, down from number one the weekend before, a movie that I watched religiously as a child, Honey, I blew up the kid. The sequel to Honey, I Shrunk the Kid. That blew him up. You know that first movie was written by, not Brian Usna, Stuart Gordon. Stuart Gordon, yeah.
01:43:07
Speaker
and he had directed I gotta say in the age of school shootings honey I blew up the kid as a much different does but in the poster you know he's big though so I don't know right Any promotions for it? I mean, again, in the first one, the kids are tiny. In the second one, the kids are huge. And then the parents are tiny. In the third one, it's crazy. Correct. And that one goes straight to straight to video. And at Disney World, it's you, the audience that, well, not the audience. No, it used to be. I did that right when I went to Disney as a child. It was fun. Me too. So cool. And Muppets.
01:43:47
Speaker
Muppets, Muppet Vision 3D. Yeah. Soon to be RIP. The last thing that Jim Henson ever directed. Man, they had at Universal, they had this Hitchcock thing. It wasn't a ride, but like you walked through it and like you could get your picture taken like hanging off the Statue of Liberty and like. You mean Mount Rushmore? Yeah, whatever. And like. ah You get the Statue of Liberty too.
01:44:15
Speaker
With the Vertigo, right? Yeah. Oh, Vertigo. No, Sabotage. Same thing. Sabotage. Same not thing. But anyway, and they had like, you'd sit down and there's this little film with Anthony Perkins, and it was really rad. So much coolest. Early Universal, Before the Islands of Adventure, was all about the movies, you guys. King Kong was fun. They had an I Love Lucy exhibit, like a little museum and shit. It was crazy.
01:44:44
Speaker
no I love North by Northwest, but sabotage is one of my favorite Hitchcock. You did a like a Hitchcock run last year. didn't you that Two years ago, I did like 19 and I'm kind of on another one.
01:44:59
Speaker
This year like going through some and I haven't seen some time spots. It's fantastic nice Making sure I've got the name cuz there's sabotage and there's saboteur. Oh I want and I just have a habit of how many versions of the larger did he do? I am So so It is Saboteur. It is Saboteur. Yeah, I think Sabotage is the one where the little kid gets blown up on the bus, which is amazing. Holy shit. Yeah, that one is outstanding as well. um Saboteur is ah the one I'm thinking of where the climax takes place on the Statue of Liberty. And it's very much like an American him remaking the 39 Steps like it is very much him remaking that movie for
01:45:52
Speaker
American audiences like he was he would remake his films like he did two versions of The Man Who Knew Too Little. Right. The one with Peter Laurie and the one with Jimmy Stewart. Yeah. And the vlogger, right? Yeah. Did he? He came back. That was a silent one. He came. Yep.
01:46:09
Speaker
he I don't think he remade a lodger after that, though. I know it was. It could be. Maybe it was an episode. No, I'm I am not an expert to be speaking on this. I know he did The Trouble with Harry and then he came back from the dead to do Weekend at Bernie's, which is. There you go. There you go. That's how it went. Appreciate it.
01:46:33
Speaker
I love the story that Mel Brooks tells while making High Anxiety about meeting with Hitchcock, and Hitchcock giving him two great jokes, and he goes, and I couldn't use either one of them. Like, they were brilliant, and I couldn't use them. Why not? Because they didn't fit. Who didn't use them? Oh. They just didn't fit in the script. Like, he couldn't figure out a way. One of my favorite one is the joke that, my favorite joke that Hitchcock gives him is this guy is like, they're chasing this guy, and he jumps, hes he sees a ship.
01:47:00
Speaker
Um, and so he like jumps onto the ship and thinks he's safe, but the ship is pulling in instead of pulling out. And like, that's the joke is that he's just right in the same position. And it seems like a Mel Brooks joke, though. That seems like a very like I'm kind of disappointed in now for not coming up with that. pocket Yeah. Right. Use that one later and then like lean over to someone and go, Alfred Hitchcock, give me that joke. Like that's what a flex like. Come on, Mel. Um.
01:47:31
Speaker
Okay, where it was I? Oh, yeah. um In third place, a league of their own four weeks in theaters down from number two has made $66 million dollars so far. yeah In fourth place, the movie that gave us one of the best sequels ever directed by the great Bill Duke. May he live forever, even though I know he's passed away recently. ah Sister Act.
01:47:52
Speaker
oh yeah ah which as has been in theaters nine weeks, up from number five the week before, has already made a hundred million over $100 million. dollars Yo, when is Sister Act 3 coming out? It's a thing. like There's a poster. Oh, I'm sure. They filmed it. I want to see it because two was better than the original. Just saying. Back in the act.
01:48:15
Speaker
Yeah. You know why? Back in the habit. Because straight up. Or whatever the habit. No. Is that why? Fucking Bill Duke directed that motherfucker. Yeah, dude. Sister Act 2 is the shit. That's why I'm looking forward to Sister Act 3. How can they top Sister Act 2? I don't know, but I'm ready for them to.
01:48:34
Speaker
Because Bill Duke's not coming back to direct. Yeah, but his spirit is there, dude. He's with them. Oh, and you know what? I misspoke. He is. I don't think he is dead. No, he's still working. What? He's directing Sister Act 3. I don't think that's true. But what if he were? um that I mean, i'd I'd probably be more excited about it than honestly. You would watch it.
01:48:58
Speaker
I love Bill Duke. Bill Duke's the man. Love that guy. ah In fifth place, ah Boomerang, the Eddie Murphy film Boomerang. yeah Rounding out the top 10 we have at number six, Universal Soldier. At number seven, Unlawful Entry. At number eight, speaking to Tim Burton's Batman, Batman Returns. Hey, hey.
01:49:16
Speaker
at number nine, prelude to a kiss, and at number 10, strangers among us. Oh, sweet. That's cool. The ah Rotten Tomatoes gives this a six on the Tomatometer. Really? ah lack The critics and sense is lacking a script, budget, direction, or star capable of doing justice to its source material. how fuck This Captain America should have been left under the ice. That is rough. Calm down.
01:49:45
Speaker
ah There is no meta score for this movie because not enough critics have ah rated it on mass Metacritic. However, there is a letterbox ranking. Tucker, would you care to take a stab at this letterbox? Gosh, it could go either way. Let's say it. Oh, cheese, Louise, Papa cheese. Let's do three point seven. No, two point seven. Jeez, Louise. Sorry.
Mixed Reviews and Future Coverage Potential
01:50:10
Speaker
Two point seven and three point one. Let's run those odds.
01:50:14
Speaker
Tucker, I'm so sorry. It's a 1.9. Yeah, well, I mean, letterboxed does suck. So that makes sense. I should have put I didn't account for that. That's why I wasn't thinking fourth dimensionally, Steven. No, you weren't you you you. You tend to not do that. I thought I the boxed when I should have been thinking inside the boxed.
01:50:34
Speaker
Yeah. Mike, out of five stars, how are you rank rating the 1990 Captain America? I'm going to go right in the middle with this. I'm going to say it's a solid two and a half stars for me. Right on. It gets a three from me. i You know, the nostalgia of it definitely kind of puts it over that bubble for me. um Tucker, what about you? How are you rating this movie? It's a three and a half.
01:51:00
Speaker
3.5, that's fair. I had a lot of fun with it. um it like But the star and a half, like it's all because there was no no emotional payoff to that tape, man. like Both of them should have been like, oh, fuck. What have I done with my life? And like I don't know, man, something. They were just like, oh, that sucks. They just distract him. He's like, mama. And then he throws his shield at him, and it's over. Damn.
01:51:28
Speaker
It's good. It's still good. It's still really, really good. The way he throws the shield, you can tell he's not actually letting go of that thing either. He's just like raising his arm up and down with the shield and it kind of cracks me up and I kind of love it every time. It just kind of farts out at the end. That's the problem. It's a fantastic movie and then it just farts out. And that's where the one and a half star comes off for me, but still solid time. And I'm going to watch it again soon. Right on. Anyway, yeah.
01:51:58
Speaker
Mike, thank you so much for coming on. It is always a pleasure to have you on. Brett was not able to join us tonight, but he sends all of his Valentine's love your way. um Because you are our perennial Valentine. you will we We always keep this spot open for you, and you have never declined. And Mike, here's here's my promise to you. For the past five years, we have foisted movies upon you. For the most part, you've been fairly agreeable about them.
01:52:27
Speaker
um but ah the last couple years I know have been a little rougher ah this from this point forward on movie last year's was tough but this year was fun um you know so I'm trying cuz like In Boston, like there's the Brattle Cinema. It's our art house cinema. It's where I got to see Wages of Fear and Sorcerer, both for the first time on the big screen, like when they were first time watches. Every year they do Casablanca.
01:52:57
Speaker
And I'm trying to convince my wife, like let's get out of school early. like when It's right before a vacation. like Let's go to the four o'clock showing because we're old. We'll get home at two. And I i know if I tell like my principal,
01:53:12
Speaker
like Hey, I want to leave 45 minutes early before the holiday because I want to take my wife to see Casablanca and then go to ah a nice chocolatier in Boston. Should we like get the fuck out of here and go? Right. So far, I'm getting I don't think I can do that from the lady. So Casablanca is technically not a franchise.
01:53:35
Speaker
It's, we've covered it actually. We did. Oh, that was my first episode as a full-time host. yeah caaloca Okay. Yeah. We have. i'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry to say, and they did try to make a sequel to it too. So you're, you're on the money. I will send you the list and I will let you pick anything again from this point forward, Mike, you've done, you've done your dues far more than some others.
01:53:57
Speaker
So shakes the clown and oh, yeah, I'm into that. Oh, fuck. There you go. They're my favorite movies of all time. One of my absolute love that movie. Anything that you can ask the question, would they have made more of these? Had it made money? I think that fits our format. So even if it's not on the list like shakes the clown, please.
01:54:20
Speaker
alcoholic clown universe. Are you kidding? And the cab, young Adam Sandler, Robin Williams, Bill Maher. Absolutely. I can't think of her name, but the woman who played Esther on Sanford and Son, who has like the greatest line in cinema history when it's like, well, two of them when she's when the camera goes off, he's going to fuck that little doggy. One of my favorite lines that and I've got the I've got the peanut butter pussy brown, creamy and easy to spread. I mean, just oh, man, it is. Have you seen? I have not. I see that you are in. This is one of those, like, I recommend this to anybody and okay and their reaction to it is like, how much of a friend are they going to be to me? Oh, God, same. Our friendship is on the line now. Damn, it's worth mentioning. We would still be.
01:55:18
Speaker
Mm hmm. I would say it's worth mentioning that this is the directorial debut of Bobcat Goldway. Bobcat Goldway. So you got to kind of know what you're getting into there. I've seen a Bobcat Goldway movie before. I'm not completely unfamiliar. i yeah fire Shakes is a little different, though. It's good. It's not. I mean, you know, the world's worst father. That's what I saw. So there you go. Yeah. World's greatest dad. World. That's the one. Yes. And then the one with the kid and the killer guy. What was that called?
01:55:47
Speaker
Uh, uh, something America, God bless America. God bless America. I like that one. I've seen most of his liking that one. So it's kind of fucked up. I've seen most of his films. Yeah. You were going to do you were Taffy. We're going to do a Bobcat Goldthwaite podcast. Oh, do it. I listen to it. We are just crazy busy. Right. It's what might fit the theme of the holiday, though, is like I think it's man bites dog. No, it's not man bites dog.
01:56:13
Speaker
um It's a Bobcat Goldweath movie where it's about a woman who he sucked her dog's dick in college on just a yes. And then like that is you know that is basically the premise of the film. like When that secret comes out, like she has to deal with the repercussions of it. and it's It's pretty brilliant. It's really fucking funny. Yes. don't know that i So one of those two, I'm partial to shakes, but sleeping dogs lie is, is, I mean.
01:56:53
Speaker
I don't know how and if there would be a cinematic universe for a dog. fullac movies but If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Bobcat. Please, please. Something got pulled off and it was the dog. everyones that it is Everybody's signing over that for sure. Oh, stop. and if And look, Mike, if they weren't, if they weren't boning yet, they certainly are now. Oh my God.
01:57:18
Speaker
Mike, what, ah again, it's always a pleasure to have you on. We are, again, the door's always open anytime. Come on in, like sit down, let's talk about some movies. um What's going on with the ah Pod and the Pendulum right now? and We've mentioned it a few times, obviously, but ah what ah you know what what other projects have you got going on? What's in good? No. just I gotta be honest, the we're just awful. Thank you for your honesty. We appreciate your transparency.
01:57:46
Speaker
the, i feel like we're on i I feel like we're in a good run right now with the pod and pendulum. I'm really proud of the work we're doing definitely over there. ah We're in the middle of covering all of the Exorcist films. Steven is one of our our frequent co-hosts, along with Brian Kuyper. We spent six hours on the first movie over the course of two episodes.
01:58:11
Speaker
We've just posted, the which you were on, Steven, The Exorcist 2, which is a movie that is so bad, it actually made me rethink the format. like Literally, today, I thought about it again as I was traveling snow. I'm like, will we run out of franchises I want to cover? And what do we do after that?
01:58:32
Speaker
right but we're in the middle of the and and so We're in the middle of covering the Exorcist films. We typically do like very deep historical dives into the film, talk ah and then all the context of where they exist in horror at the time, how it got made, and then we dive into the movie proper.
01:58:52
Speaker
with like a lot of humor and diversions. But if you ever wanted to know what an Exorcist toy line should look like, you should listen to our episode on Exorcist 2 The Heretic. Correct. Or if you want to learn more about Mike's sequel pitch for Robert Eggers 2024 Nosferatu, listen to ah part one of our Exorcist 1 episode. Really?
01:59:19
Speaker
Too fast, too far off to pitches a correct coming soon. That's the pitch. That's the pot on the pendulum. There's like two hundred and seventy five episodes. That's a lot of episodes. It is a lot of episodes. um And I don't know how much longer we can do it before my brain turns to mush. We at least have to get through this year, Mike. We got a lot planned for this year. We really do. We've taken on a lot this year. But yeah, you can find us everywhere.
01:59:48
Speaker
everywhere you get your shows. so Right on. And um as for us, we continue to be the disenfranchised podcast. This is the 220th episode of this
Podcast Planning and Creativity
02:00:00
Speaker
show. And we're we we also have a lot planned for the for the coming year. So it's buckle in because it's going to get fun. Honestly, the fifth season is almost completely full at this point. Yeah, let me know when that's over, because there's like things I have to do on the back end.
02:00:15
Speaker
Keep me informed on that. um Understood. I will. I mean, we you do you do have access to the document. I just don't tell you when I update it yeah um because I update it constantly. It's in a constant state of flux. I'm constantly just moving stuff around and scheduling. And yes, do I'm a madman on that spreadsheet. he's The maddest man. I do love spreadsheets. I get really excited about spreadsheets. yeah That's a bit scary. I know. ah Wonderful.
02:00:44
Speaker
it It does help keep us a little organized though, which is helpful for sure. i trust um It's worked so far, five years in, it's still going strong. lot of being but um You can find us again, anywhere you get your podcast. If you wouldn't mind leaving us a nice five star rating and review Spotify or Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, that's really helpful to help us find more listeners. ah Shoot us an email, disenfranchpod at gmail dot.com. Let us know if there are any ah Failed franchise starters you'd like to see us cover how excited are you to help us to see us cover shakes the clown? Let us know ah you can also let us know over on patreon dot.com slash disenfranch pod. We've got two tiers There's a completely free tier where we release main feed episodes that you can just comment on and engage in the conversation with us ah or we've got the five dollar tier which is full of
02:01:35
Speaker
It hasn't been updated in a while. Thanks for not canceling your subscriptions, guys. But it's it there is still a lot of content behind that paywall. You can get caught up in the meantime. Days, dude. And that's like I'm not talking about like taking breaks, but like continuously listening to all the content on our Patreon for days, not even including the main feed episodes. That's that's some days.
02:01:59
Speaker
What are we watching? We got Upsall Christianity Corner, Upsall Video Game Corner, Disson 5 Chised, Unenfranchised. We've got a couple commentary tracks that we did for Muppet Family Christmas. And Adam's Family Values. Adam's Family Values commentary as well. Like there's a ton of stuff up there for you to engage with. So go over there, have a good time, ah pay us five bucks if you want. If not, sign up for the free feed and talk to us because Tucker and I do respond.
02:02:28
Speaker
um on those on those episodes when we have stuff to say. And we are we are working on Patreon content. We are. Our schedules used to be a lot easier when it came to Patreon stuff. And then Tucker got another job and then Brett started working nights. I feel like we're going to get there.
02:02:49
Speaker
again We will. We'll get into sync again and then we'll be pumping shit out. like that I'm moving in a month, so there's that. We got a lot going on. We'll figure it out for sure. so don't don't give up on his shit yet I'll let you know when it's time to give up on us, patrons. We'll cancel the Patreon, then. yeah We'll just close it out. Make it all free. At five bucks a month, if you're just doing it to support the show, you're basically paying a dollar a month for like the main feed, which As you can see, like it's a lot that i mean it's I feel certain ways about podcasting and the way it's evolved over the past few years and that it's much harder now for smaller non-networked independent shows to find an audience. like Everything is on a network and it feels like there's like a lot of
02:03:43
Speaker
a lot of performers and celebrities that don't necessarily need this market have jumped into it and have crowded the space. So sound if you have an indie, and if you're two and a half hour, two hours in into listening to an episode that tangentially talks about 1990s Captain America, when you are a fan of the show, like you are a fan of the show, it will cost you like the price of a cup of coffee to make sure that you keep the lights on. And I don't think that is a lot to ask for. And even if it's not something, this is going to sound weird, to you guys. So ever since Dr. Demento went purely digital, I've paid for this subscription every month. It's $10 a month. You get an episode, a new episode every week and you have access to like every other Dr. Demento episode ever.
02:04:41
Speaker
And it's fantastic. Now there was a time there was a time where I listened to Dr. Demento every week when it dropped. I would listen to back episodes, all kinds of shit. I was very into it.
02:04:54
Speaker
I remember those days as well. probably the bad is Probably the last. Well, it comes and it goes. Like I was way into it when I was a teenager and then I was way into it when it went digital and then I kind of fell off and then I was way into it kind of during the pandemic and then I've fallen off. But I i don't think I've listened to it maybe once in the last three years.
02:05:17
Speaker
I still pay for it because like I just want to support it. If you're not listening to it, it's something that like I want to continue, whether I'm listening to it or not. So don't don't try to remember that you haven't canceled that subscription. Just forget about it. Just let it ride.
02:05:34
Speaker
We do try to sing for us upper when we can, but for the most part, you know we're we're still out here cranking out the main feed episodes that you love. Yes. And again, as Mike said, if I don't know why people listen. I don't know why we still have a listenership after three year or five years on this show, but I'm so glad we do. I'm so glad people have found something to enjoy in this show because we continue to enjoy making it. and like The fact that we still make it means that we still enjoy it. like We haven't gotten sick of it yet, and I'm so glad other people happened as well. That's true. Longest Patreon plug ever. Right. You can also find us on ah Blue Sky, YouTube, Letterboxd. I think that's all we're on these days because I'm getting off of the meta um at Disinfranch Pod. ah You can find me, Steven Foxworthy. I'm on ah
02:06:27
Speaker
Blue Sky and Letterbox. I think that's all I'm i'm plugging these days at Chewy Walrus. ah Brett, who is again not here, I think he was out fighting evil in Rome last time I checked, ah which may or may not be in the Yugoslavia. um he is He is also out but sends you all his Valentine's love as well. ah Most of it was for Mike, but at the rest of it is for you guys. um And you can follow him on Letterboxd at sus underscore warlock. Tucker, where can we find you on socials? I am still for the moment on Instagram. Don't know how long that's going to last, but I will always and forever be on the YouTubes. And in both of those places at the moment, you can find me at ice 909. That's I C E N I N E the number zero and the number nine. Also tuck mugs still exists in its original form at the moment.
02:07:18
Speaker
And we'll see. Tuck underscore mugs on the Instagram. Still accepting guest mugs. if it If it moves somewhere else or something happens to it, your guest mug will be preserved.
02:07:30
Speaker
So. ah Crystallized in Amber for all time. Yeah, i don't I don't. In fact, we may just we just may move all the posts from whatever the old the old platform to the new one. That's kind of what I'm thinking. Yeah, i got I want to I want to I want to talk with you about that, Stephen. Not tonight, because I got to know God, no, I got to get out of here. We all we got shut to say I know Mike Mike Mike's Mike was like, I want to be in bed by 10 and it's like 10 20. It's 10 20. And this is my time, Stephen. I got kids. This is my time. I need to drink. All right.
02:07:59
Speaker
In that, well, I've i've already had a drink. All right, gentlemen, and it's been a lot of fun. Yes, it has. So thank you so much to all of you for joining us for this, again, very special Valentine's episode. ah They're all Valentine's episodes with Mike Snudian around because we have nothing but love for the guy. He is the best and continues to be the best. Thank you again for joining us. Very sweet of you. You are you are always going to be our president, Mike. um And so to you, we say, hey, Mr. President,
02:08:29
Speaker
Thanks. Thanks. See you listeners. ah This has been our Captain America episode of the disenfranchised podcast for Tucker for the absent Brett Wright and for the amazing Mike Snunian. Until next time. um Stop calling me your brother. Oh, well, yeah, he was mad about that. He was really mad about that.
02:08:53
Speaker
I mean, I'd be mad too if a Nazi started calling me brother. And if his heart went out to me and all that, yeah, I'd be mad. If only they played that tape earlier. If only.