Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep. 212 – Sunday School Bathroom Matinee w/ AJ Tartol of SeeYouSpaceCowboy
333 Plays1 month ago
This week we’re joined by musician AJ Tartol! AJ plays drums and does backing vocals for SeeYouSpaceCowboy, and is a vocalist for BuriedButStillBreathing. AJ grew up in church and started playing in the worship band at a very early age. However, as he hit his teen years, he started to drift away from Christianity. We had a great time talking to AJ, and can’t recommend SeeYouSpaceCowboy enough! You can follow him on Instagram (@ajplaysthedrums), and check out his novella Chasm available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble!
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, i've I've never seen the Harry Potter movies in my life. It's one of those things that's been on my list for as long as long as I can remember and it just it's just so daunting taking on however many movies it is in the series as a catch up. you know Your level of purity is unbelievable. I mean, you're glowing right now.
00:00:21
Speaker
but Think about what ah what ah what a catch you're going to be for your for your future wife someday. yeah Yeah, just wait till you hear about the ah the Christian guitar hero, you know? Are you guys familiar with that one? Is that a real thing? but Yeah, oh yeah. It's called guitar praise. No way. Yeah, oh yeah. God, Christianity really understands capitalism.
00:01:03
Speaker
Hey, everybody. We are back with another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And today we are joined by AJ Tardle from a wonderful band called CU Space Cowboy. What's up, man? How are we doing today, guys? Oh, you know, just another day on the Internet.
Discovering CU Space Cowboy
00:01:26
Speaker
ay Dude, i um ah get out a full disclosure, I'm ah um um recent to ah to see Space Cowboy. My friend sent me, when you guys' newest album came out, he sent it to me and was like, hey, have you have you checked these guys out yet? And I was like, I have not. i've I heard the band name plenty of times, because it's one that sticks with you. And um as soon as he sent it to me, i like ah I powered through the whole album and was like, damn, this is, it's fun, man. It reminded me a lot of like, um like a new, it has like that like old like screamo vibe, but more technical and just, I don't know, a newer spin on it. Like, ah I don't know. It just, it it brought me back, but also felt like new and fresh. So I was like really, really excited to to add you guys to my Spotify list of
00:02:24
Speaker
things to revisit frequently.
Musical Backgrounds and Influences
00:02:26
Speaker
That is, I'm glad that you like to do it. It's interesting. I feel like my band is one of those where depending on what song you're sent first, you could either love it right away or absolutely hate it right away, you know, or or let it grow on you, you know. um But that's awesome. Yeah. As far as like what you said about the sound goes, it's funny because like everybody Everybody in my band kind of came from different worlds. Like two of two of us came from, like you said, like the screamo screamo world, like orchid and Jerome's dream, all of that kind of stuff. Some of us came from like beat down and like, you know, flat build hat kind of, you know, backpack, mosh, hardcore. backpa I The Jansport bag, the vitamin water, you know. Nothing like two-stepping holding onto those little strings, you know? That's that's it. I think the first Warped Tour that I ever went to, you know, I i jumped in the pit, that was my my move, and the strap ripped off somehow, you know?
00:03:33
Speaker
dude I was going to, I had to sit out the rest of the day. well yeah you thought but what What could you do? Your identity was lost at that point. Absolutely gone. Everything that was in there, I had to had to keep it safe for bringing home. you know Dude, nothing goes quite well like ah with a ah a string backpack in that sense. like A newly acquired freshman 15, underneath you're one size too small from first to last shirt.
Early Music Influences and Memories
00:04:00
Speaker
yeah like just just bubbling out the top like like ah biscuit dough and you're in there just kind of flailing around. You're all knees and elbows, you know? Exactly. I remember that Warped Tour. I didn't have any ah official band merch and I made my own. I think I just like with the Sharpie wrote my favorite bands across just like a blank white shirt. It looked so ugly, so ridiculous. Do you remember what band?
00:04:29
Speaker
It was like covered in every band I had ever heard of. So it was was Christian bands, all the stuff we're about to talk about. And then I think it said like 303 right across, like right across the front there. So three oh a little something, a little something for everybody.
00:04:46
Speaker
Dude, that's I love that like when that early when you're like early entry into the the quote unquote scene right is like you're coming from coming from one world entering into another and like you don't realize that some of the bands that you like are gonna get you ridiculed at some point ah when you start talking about music you're like yeah I like this band and this band it's but and they're all like It's like the ones that you you would know, but they don't necessarily all, they don't fit into the same genre by any means, which is fine. Like you get old, like you can like everything across a broad genre, but what you don't know about the scene is that like when you encounter people where some of what you like is so far outside of like what, what those certain people like, you are going to get made fun of.
00:05:39
Speaker
Oh my god, you like that. I can't believe you like that shit. Oh, yeah. I think that I think the first time I was ever called gay was not for being gay, but was for being yeah a Pierce Seveille fan. ah yeah ah you know and And now all that stuff is becoming cool again, such as it just depends on your era, you know?
00:05:58
Speaker
It is. stomach cool yeah i like ah For me, it was like, I've always, we talk about the first things that we like bought musically. And it was like, my my mom gave me one of those, it was like some sort of Christian magazine. I don't remember what it was, like a magazine where you would order albums from it. ah So I just like circled a bunch that I want. And it was like, what? Ranger Rick.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah i and it was like this is this is so what I was talking about is like was who I was I got made fun of because it's like I you know I picked Norma Jean, Emery, Dogwood, Dead Poetic and ah I think maybe Anne Berlin right like totally all totally different genres of music but it was just you're entering into this world and you're you're just grabbing everything you can and I didn't realize that like it wasn't cool to like some of those bands till I started hanging out with like metal kids uh yeah and then I'm like
00:06:58
Speaker
like I was denigrating like Emory god they hated that shit so much you know and uh then I was like you know you kind of shoved that down for a bit you're like I gotta be cool like I was a homeschooled kid who made real like friends who were cool and in bands and I was like I can't I need to I need to start liking cooler shit so then you're like that first uh, CD case you get is filled with 95% burned CDs that you maybe listen to once, but you just need to have them in there. So that way when, when cool kids flip through it, they know you like cool shit. It's I have, I've never related to something more because yeah, I was, I was like, you know, we came as Romans asking Alexander, just like all of the, all the scene stuff. But then I met a group of like blink one 82 fans through church.
00:07:51
Speaker
And then, you know, suddenly, you know, all that was announced. I listened to Rancid and Black Flag and Blink-182 all of a sudden. And, you know, I had to push, I had to push the scene phase, you know, below me, but, you know, we're, we're back in it now. I like the only ones more gatekeeper-y than metal kids. I feel like that's really rough among punk people. Yeah.
Christian Music and Band Experiences
00:08:16
Speaker
I guess, yeah, I'd say like actual metal heads and then like battle jacket punk fans, you know, that that genre of punk fan for sure. They're the coolest. yeah I love that you met Blink-182 kids at church, like, because Blink-182 is a tough sell for church moms. Very, very much. so There's all very much deeper lore to it that involve, you know,
00:08:42
Speaker
trying to get with girls, you know, all of them were there, not for church, but for girls. But I saw, yeah, I saw an anti flat, anti flat shirt at church and I was like, what does that mean? And you know, it it all went downhill from there. So where, what area did you grow up in? Uh, always been like in the same area. So like, uh, North County, San Diego, uh, Carlsbad and Oceanside to be like specific about it.
00:09:11
Speaker
ah And the church that I spent most of the time at growing up ah was just like non-denominational mega church. And here's here's where it's fun. The ah the singer of the band Switchfoot, his dad was the the head pastor of the church that I grew up at. So it was like a celebrity rock and roll kind of church.
00:09:33
Speaker
It was very cool. yeah i I actually didn't realize that the singer of Switchfoot, I didn't know he was a pastor's kid. I probably should have known that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would i would see them around and just like you know start shaking, fanboying out. Oh my God, Switchfoot. Yeah. They were all going to go into the ministry and then decided that he was meant to live for so much more.
00:09:58
Speaker
Oh God, my my approaching the singer of Switchfoot Story when I was like nine years old, didn't didn't go as I'd hoped. I saw him, you know, getting getting coffee, ready to go into the service. I go up to him with the CD and I'm just like, I'm i'm such a big fan, will you sign my CD? He gives me he gives me a nine-year-old, this whole speech about time and place. He's like, this is like a place for family and for And for the Lord, and it's not a place for blah, blah, blah. So no, I won't sign it. And I was just like, Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Really, really, really cool of him. That's amazing. but Yeah. We're five minutes in. I've thrown switch foot under the bus. Oh man.
00:10:36
Speaker
yeah Well, that was a while ago. Maybe he's changed since then. It is done so funny, dude. I love the idea of because yeah I remember when like when I was in like. ah Like I knew that the Emory dudes were all at like a ah church in like South Carolina or some shit. And you were like, o oh, like you when you learned of like these bands that had like their hometown and they were still involved in Christianity.
00:11:05
Speaker
And they would go to the church you're like that. So the idea of like knowing. where you can, where you could legitimately like run into these people that you thought were like, they were your heroes, you idolized any, like when, especially getting into music, like, yeah and I think it's just funny coming from like, you know, growing up, you know, your only, my only access was like mainstream stuff. And then like, those people, everything celebrity feels untouchable, it still does, like, ah and then, you know, you could go to like New York and run into like Conan on the street or some shit, but like,
00:11:39
Speaker
yeah like Knowing that like you can go to a place and that these people that you see on TV or you listen to in your headphones are like consistently there and live in this area and you're like, I could meet them. It's something like wild.
00:11:52
Speaker
and yeah the idea of like Switchfoot was huge. like that was They were like one of the real like like crossover mainstream like bands that were Christian, I think. I call them proto-skillet.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah. I don't even think Skillet had that crossover. Like, Life House, I think, I feel like they had Christian roots. Skillet's huge now, dude. Just like, headlining, like, military spouse, middle of the country fest, you know, at the state fairgrounds? Yeah. There's not, there's not a lot of, uh, there's not a lot of bands, I don't, that like, cater to the alt-right market. So I think whenever you do, you're just like, instantly in.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, I was, we, uh, my band, just a little side topic on the topic of skillet though. Uh, I missed a skillet encounter a couple of months ago. We were staying at a hotel somewhere. Our guitar player, Timmy was sleeping in our van, woke up to this giant tour bus park in front of him. Guy gets out drinking coffee and starts, you know, making small talk. Oh, are you guys on tour too? It was, it was the dude from skillet. I forget his name.
00:13:03
Speaker
And and john yeah, there you go. There he is. Timmy's just like, Oh my God, you're in skillet. Our drummer is such a big fan of you. Let me, let me go and wake him up. And by the time I ran out, you know, I don't know what I was going to go up and talk to him about, you know, but it would have been like your switch foot encounter. Yeah. You know, our guitarist said that he was a nice guy. Nice to talk to. He was not up on the lower of all the the crazy shit that he says now, but you know,
00:13:30
Speaker
After, after that, I made everybody in the van listen to what's the album comatose all the way through, you know, it's still, dude, it's still pretty good. Yeah. yeah that It's like those first three songs all hit just like I remember them hitting back in the day. The thing to do would have been to like, go up to him and be like, John, uh, my question for you, the bathroom in your tour bus is, is it gender neutral?
00:13:59
Speaker
yeah Just, you know, filming, filming with my camera a little bit hidden, but still obvious, you know, that body cam interview man by the time i by the time I ran out, by the time I ran out, he, they'd already driven away. They, I think that maybe he looked up our band was like, Oh, hell no. Want another to do with that. freak not See him at night. Cause I mean, like, it would just look like a, uh, like a disembodied face floating, like amongst that jet black hair and beard yeah yeah naturally jet black. Yeah, of course naturally. Yeah, of course. When you pray as much as he does, God blesses you with jet black ungrade hair in your fifties. That's the way that it works. Yeah. And a couple of intro commercials on Sirius XM lithium. High octane.
00:14:51
Speaker
i went Is that the like butt rock one? Yeah. ah that High octane is funny to me because um so I work in a school. ah So over the summer, I got a part-time job to bring in some extra cash at the venue that ah maybe you guys have played it. Worcester Palladium. Oh yeah, absolutely. yeah So I picked up a part-time job there thinking I'd get to like see some cool shows and stuff. None of that worked out. I played a lot of festivals that I was not excited to work. But um ah but the one show I did work that I i i was excited about was Bare Tooth. um And um at the where I would be positioned was like the gate to go back like so like people could go backstage or whatever. Because this is an outdoor festival. They close off the parking lot behind it. They open. it's like
00:15:42
Speaker
really well done their outdoor shows are phenomenal and ah so I'm like I'm at the entrance ah like the back entrance from the street and like the street that you pretty much park your vans and tour buses along and I could hear some of the guys from Paretooth talking to one of the other bands and they were just like, yeah, it's like just being real self aware of what they're doing, right? Like he's like, we know, we know the fan base. um You know, we know, like, and he he mentioned high octane is like, like a big part of the fan base and and engaging that um and attributing a lot of their success to that, which is um
00:16:25
Speaker
Which is funny. I just find like the way he was talking about it in a way that was like, it wasn't derogatory, but it was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We know, we know what this is. Uh, and it's working. So we, where we're, go we're, we're going to keep, we're going to keep leaning into it because it's what is going to, I mean, that's what got them an arena show in their hometown. They're playing a fucking arena show in the next couple of months, which is insane. That's great. It's, it's awesome. The fans like that are arena level now, you know? i know It's, I feel like so many people say like, where are like the band, i feel I feel like, yeah, that's something that I saw recently where people were like, who are like the the new My Chemical Romance and the new Fall Out Boys. And I feel like it's it's just that in disguise, you know? Just kind of the the emo octane stuff. And I think it's awesome. yeah i mean even where I'd love to get peed on by Ronnie Radke at the T-Mobile Arena.
00:17:21
Speaker
but Oh my God. Is it Roddy or is it Randy? I think it's Rodney. It's Rodney. It's kind of blended in. Rodney? Wow, I danced around it. Rodney and Randy. You almost had it, dude. But even where we're at, like like the amount of um shit I saw like well like knocked loose, right? like They do the Slipknot tour. And Slipknot is, it I mean, that's the most mainstream version of like heavy music that you'll get, I think, right now over the past like decade.
00:17:53
Speaker
um So they got on that tour and then they fucking did Jimmy Kimmel Live.
Arena Shows and Upbringing
00:17:57
Speaker
And you're just like, what is this world we're living in where these kinds of bands are, you know, bare tooth doing arena shows, knocked loose doing Jimmy Kimmel Live. It's really cool. Yeah. We, we played our first arena show a few at the beginning of this last tour, the ah Devil Wears Prada tour did the motionless and white hometown arena show. Oh, wow. man Definitely, definitely one of the,
00:18:23
Speaker
coolest shows I've ever played. ah it was It was on Halloween, so naturally we all dressed up for our first arena show. And nothing nothing together, I was a Teletubby playing drums. And it starts on the first one that walks on stage, so I just ran out there, teeny tiny bit stone, and just you know jumped up and down, waved at the people. And you know and then we rocked it. It was a a beautiful time. We had a Bud Lightyear in the mix,
00:18:51
Speaker
You were furthering the conspiracy theory that Teletubbies is like gay messaging. I wasn't allowed to watch Teletubbies. I wasn't allowed to watch Spongebob growing up because that allegedly promoted homosexual themes and worked out great. I think they protected you.
00:19:16
Speaker
And I'll watch SpongeBob now, you know, and that's like the thing everybody's like, you've never seen SpongeBob. So now I've seen like the best episodes over and over again through a million hosts. And yeah, I don't, I don't know what the gay themes are. I was paying real close attention to him, but you know. All I could think of is that one time SpongeBob said imagination and punk, like his hands made an arc and a rainbow came out of them. And that's maybe the gayest thing I ever saw in SpongeBob. I don't know. That's pretty gay. Yeah.
00:19:44
Speaker
See, yeah I was, I wasn't allowed to watch Captain Planet and I don't know if it was rainbow related or if it was just because they wanted to like save trees. Definitely that. It was liberal propaganda. Yeah. I've never even heard of that. So I'm guessing it's for the same reason. Whoa, you never, Captain Planet. It's, uh, dude, all these different characters very also, uh, perhaps one of the problems with it was zero. How, yes. How diverse the, the animated cast was. I mean, you had.
00:20:15
Speaker
Uh, you had an Asian person, a black person, white person, like you had people all over the racial spectrum and they were all, they all had these rings and they would like power up to, you know, fight against people deforesting and shit like that. And it was the most liberal thing on television for children at the time. And that's why none of us were allowed to watch it and why you've probably never heard of it.
00:20:39
Speaker
ah Yeah, what what year around was that that that came out? I wonder if I'd like recognize the art or any of it from it. that is like questions It's the sort of crap that you would buy like ah an $80 sweatshirt with Captain Planet on it at like American Apparel now.
00:20:56
Speaker
Okay, 1990 yeah, it started in 90 and they had five seasons Okay, ah but he was cut he was blue and he wore a crop top basically with underwear So like had like a black top green hairdo. I think right. It's like yeah, like it's a mullet Yeah, he had a full-ass mullet a green mullet. Yeah, there's something subliminal happening there. Yeah, I wouldn't trust this guy yeah
00:21:25
Speaker
So what was, ah so it was a non-denominational megachurch. I mean, like how intense was the messaging towards kids? How intense was that? Say it one more time. How intense was like the the, you know, messaging that they gave to you guys as kids? To be honest, it it wasn't wasn't very intense at all, especially compared to a lot of other episodes from this show that I've listened to.
00:21:53
Speaker
It was very just, you know, borderline prosperity messages. You know, we were, we were in like a rich town, like a minute away from the ocean. So it's just a lot of, a lot of, you know, yuppie moms, you know, pulling up with Starbucks and every hand, you know, just, it felt more like a social gathering than any sort of related place. They had to placate the donor class. Yeah. And I remember one time they had like a social justice, like guest speaker come and talk and A lot of people from the congregation were upset about it because he was just talking about racial injustices and the government and this and that. And I remember a lot of friends never went back, never went back to that church after that.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yo, that's nuts. I feel like every church has to have a guest speaker that doesn't go over well. Normally not in that direction, but to- We had an ex-cop that hated porn. That was ours. Oh, that's a good man. Which all that means is he has a porn addiction that hasn't come to light yet. Oh, that's always what that means. You can't trust anybody who calls porn skin books.
00:23:03
Speaker
get Oh, you no, that means he's the freakiest shit of all time. yeah I mean, if if his goal is to make everybody in the congregation so flaccid that they never want to look at porn again, that's actually a pretty good way to go. Every time you go to do it, you're just picturing this guy's face. Yeah, no, that'll do it for a lot of people. You went to Hellraiser in theaters. He was hard the whole time.
00:23:27
Speaker
ah calling it skin books too he's like I don't know what year this was Casey but I guess he was he not aware of internet porn yet he thinks it's also in magazines yeah this was like early 2000s so I don't know if he had seen a computer yet not one without um Angel eyes on it what was the covenant eyes covenant eyes I think that's what it was I think so yeah net nanny there was a horn blocker Yeah, I had one of those. We had a we had a Christian religious cable box growing up, I guess, for lack of a better term, where it's called, what was it called? vi a i Well, it was called mine was called Sky Angel. And I want to say this is probably like, you know, 1015 years ago at this point, probably closer to 15 years ago. And I think it was just like a box that, you know, HDMI cable connected to the Wi Fi. And it was like, you know, the
00:24:27
Speaker
TBN, right? That's what the the big network was called. Yeah. TBN, all of their kid stations. Some, you know, mostly, I guess secular, if you want to call animal planet and Discovery Channel secular, you know, they were on there. But they they certainly didn't let you watch the, if it was with Discovery Channel does come the occasional, ah yeah, evolutionary dropping.
00:24:53
Speaker
but They drop into some ah some culture in some secluded area and the ladies don't wear tops. I imagine they didn't allow that. No, now not not Discovery Channel with without parental you know supervision. I think it was because of evolution is what we were trying to avoid. you know yeah Sometimes it would mention that. That's more likely, yeah.
00:25:16
Speaker
I had friends that had something called Vid Angel, and it was a like a DVD player that would censor it would censor swearing in like skip sexual content. We had one of those two. I forget what it was called. It wasn't Vid Angel. It was a clear play is what it was called. Can you imagine inventing like if you were if you invented a like a faith based product of some sort, how It's got to be impossible to think up like a unique yeah URL. I mean, they're all taken. It's like clear angel lives, vid, angel, you know. yeah There's just none. And it's just like, somebody has to go through. That's a crazy job is just watching every movie of all time and just noting every, every, and I think ours went as crazy as like taking off, like, oh my God, you know?
00:26:09
Speaker
but There was a profanity and a vulgarity filter and you could put it on high medium or low, you know it said it yeah hi maybe you know that and we we With a couple of dams, but goddamn is unacceptable o and it was like a little just And that's what it would do. Yeah, it would cut out the the god and then you just get the damn no way Dude, okay. Let's, let's think here. What do you, okay. There's a person watching these movies to note, like notate when all of the curse words and sex scenes and stuff are right. What does this person look like? I feel like I should do some research and I'll send you guys some pictures with my results later tonight. Cause it's gotta be good.
00:27:00
Speaker
I know that the person is at least a hundred pounds overweight. ah You know, the first image that came to my mind is who's the guy that restores the toys in Toy Story 2? Oh yeah, the old man. It was an owl. That's who I think of. He's doing that shit. He's sitting in his office playing three movies at once. What was that Toy Story 3? No, that was Toy Story 2. What was the lady that was like the the bad head Minister or whatever in that Harry Potter movie and she like everything's in your um bridge. That's who I'm going with and see oh it's ah one another Yeah, i've I've never seen the Harry Potter movies in my life It's one of those things that's been on my list for as long as long as I can remember and it just it's so so daunting taking on however many movies it is in the Series as they catch up, you know, your level of purity is unbelievable. I mean you're glowing right now. I
00:27:59
Speaker
but Think about what ah what ah what a catch you're going to be for your for your future wife someday. yeah Yeah, just wait till you hear about the ah the Christian Guitar Hero, you know? Are you guys familiar with that one? Is that a real thing? but Yeah, oh yeah. It's called Guitar Praise, and it was a PC game. No way. Yeah, oh yeah.
00:28:19
Speaker
God, Christianity really understands capitalism. It's incredible. It had good tracks on it, you know. A lot of Chris Tomlin, I bet. it's Yeah, I'm trying to see if I can find the... Even on hard mode, you're like, why are these chords so easy to play? Exactly.
00:28:39
Speaker
Uh, and the funniest thing too is I'm terrible at those games. Like I sat down to actually play rock band and just broke everybody in the room's brain. Cause I could not play rock band drums to save my life. They're just like, you're weird. How are you not figuring this out? i I was not like a gamer ever. Like I think the only video games that I had access to growing up was like a game boy advanced with like a Hot Wheels game on it. And that was, that was as far as it went.
00:29:07
Speaker
Uh, big, big reason for that is I was the, I'm the oldest of four kids total. So when my parents met the Lord, everything was getting tested out on me, you know? And then it's that generational thing where each, each younger sibling got it a little bit easier, a little bit easier. And it's like, Oh, now, now the whole family's watching Harry Potter and I still haven't seen the damn thing. great So did your parents find the Lord in your youth? I was.
00:29:38
Speaker
like two or three years old and I met a pastor they met a pastor at a supermarket whoa Wow ah Street evangelism worked once that's wild Casey and I always talk about how intrigued we are by like these like these conversion stories for ah ah young adults like I my most of my life I was like, Oh, i I need to try to convert people, right? And it never worked on anybody ever. So like, what was going on with people in their early 20s and certain periods, the time periods and periods of their life where you go like where it worked, like to meet someone in a grocery store and be like, you know what, we should rethink all of this is maybe he caught your parents shoplifting.
00:30:24
Speaker
See, it's funny because a lot of it is situational and I feel like on like a grander scale as well because my folks had just moved to California from Chicago, had no friends, no connections, anybody out here and then, you know, they meet this nice pastor man. And, you know, next thing, next thing, you know, guitar praise. He invites him to church. It's a fine line. Was that the mega church, the Switchfoot dad church?
00:30:54
Speaker
No, that was like a slightly smaller scale church, probably like a 200 people max in attendance every Sunday. Maybe less than that, I could be remembering it wrong, but ah grew to the mega church with just a couple of moves around town. Interesting. well What made your parents leave that church to go to the other one? To be honest, I think that they just didn't like driving over 30 minutes.
00:31:25
Speaker
Maybe they come after shoplifting. no and It could be. the drive like That's what's so funny when you, ah so I live in Massachusetts. when I lived in Virginia for a minute and we we Casey and I met when we when we went to Liberty University together.
00:31:45
Speaker
um an incredibly saturated church market, incredible. like ah But when i where I came from, there was like, if you were non-denominational, you could find a Catholic church in every town, obviously, it's Massachusetts. These aren't real. yeah that's not the it's It's the quote unquote, one true faith, but according to, you know,
00:32:06
Speaker
evangelical Christians, it's the the one false faith that and Mormonism really like Catholics, Mormon, Catholics are definitely above Mormons. But I would say when it comes to like, they they ignore most high churches, they're just like, Yeah, I don't, I don't even know, like, they don't know enough about them to give a shit. But most of the evangelicals I knew, grew up Catholic, like that were my parents age, and they all converted to, like, non denominational evangelical type Christianity. But like So Catholic Church, there's um there's one in every town there and it's you know a 200 year old building probably, but like non-denominational stuff, it was all about the drive. You go, like the one I went to, it was probably like a 15 minute drive at most, but when we first moved to the area and we were doing the church shopping, we'd go 30 minutes, we'd go here
Cultural and Church Discussions
00:32:56
Speaker
and there.
00:32:56
Speaker
um And then this this one started near me, ah so my parents checked that one out just because of proximity. And that's that's a ah normal reason that anyone would would consider switching, but I moved to Boston for a bit, and I was still going to evangelical church at the time, and ah the pastor, that church was my old youth pastor, and it was like, he started a church there, because it's like, ah he would always talk about how Boston is like basically qualified as a quote unquote unreached people group. And I'm like, i've I've walked. But really, do we need to reach everybody? I agree to leave some people out.
00:33:39
Speaker
i i walk You can walk through Boston and find a church every every other block. you know it's a So their idea of what that means is hilarious. And you so you go from like Virginia where I met people who are like, I feel really called to be a pastor and in Lynchburg, Virginia. I'm like, do you? like That's wild. That's like the easiest way out of all time. like that's like It's just a guaranteed income because if a new church starts, people are gonna leave their church to go to a new church that's going to tell them the exact same thing. But it's not even proximity related. I don't get it. I don't get how you can oversaturate a market so much and still be financially successful. that It's so insane to me. I didn't even realize there were that yeah there were that many people in town, first of all. And yeah, there's like so many megas. The one that my family currently goes to, they've since moved on from the switch but one and it's like a chain of churches, you know?
00:34:35
Speaker
kind of like a tone down. I'm trying to think of the the other big mega church chains, I guess, but yeah, there's like five of them within like a 40 mile stretch in our town. And I'm just like, who's who's going to this? I love that you called it a chain because they call it a campus. Yeah, yeah exactly. Campus equals franchise. so Yeah. And yeah, as far as the the Catholic thing goes as well, my parents were, I guess, raised non-practicing Catholic. like in that they were just, you know, raised by old Italians. ah So, you know, Catholic, Catholic on paper, but, you know, never went to church. I mean, I've been baptized twice, you know, that's a fun thing once as a baby and once as a, as a proper youth, but
00:35:20
Speaker
ah When you made the choice, when you were how old were you when you got baptized the second time? ah Nine, I want to say. And you were you think you were cognitively capable of making that choice to follow Christ? yeah that' not I wouldn't say that. That's not what I would say. I heard rumblings that ah they were going to get me a new drum set as an baptism guest whenever I was ready.
00:35:46
Speaker
ah you know and I just kind of pushed for that as quick as I could. I went to all the meetings. I scheduled a date without them. I'm like, you guys better get that drum set going, please. Did the Lord answer that? Baptism is a Sunday, you know, and we're in San Diego. So they'd take you into the ocean and just dunk you in the water, come out all covered in sand, you know, and it's quite the ceremony. I think my biggest fear about baptism was my t-shirt sticking to my little chubby, uh,
00:36:16
Speaker
Man movies. Yeah, in front of the whole church. Your puffy nips. I feel like nine was like young enough where I was like, I was a fat little kid as well. But I don't think that, I don't think that it had set in because I was, did you say that you were homeschooled as well? Sam, what you were a fool a little bit, right? No, I was homeschooled. I did some Christian school. I was homeschooled. Casey was, ah ah he went to a K through 12 Christian school.
00:36:45
Speaker
and Okay. Gotcha. I was, I was totally self homeschooled. Just no, no charters, no Bible schools, just, just at home, me and me and my, my younger siblings. well Were they all homeschooled too? All of you? Like, yeah. Like up and my little sister who, my little sister just turned 16 and yet all fully homeschooled the whole, whole time. They didn't do like co-ops and all that. We'd have like.
00:37:14
Speaker
little park dates, you know, so I could actually socialize and learn how to talk to other people. ah You know, just be like a mom's group and the the kids would go and do their thing. And I would do a lot of volunteering at church. Like I've been drumming in the worship band, I think, since I was seven or eight or something like that. man um I got my first drum kit when I was three shortly after my parents converted. And since I was homeschooled, all I you know could really do was just sit at home and practice it you know it was just that bible man that veggie tales you know kind of day you know um and when my little brother was born you know he took a little a little break from school just so my mom could recover and so he could settle into all that and i remember that's when i got really good was when the attention was off of me and all i all i had to do was yeah just get good
00:38:11
Speaker
the As a five year old last beat my my anger out.
Drumming Journey and Challenges
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember, I remember the first time I played like with a double kick pedal. I found the attachment, like the second half of the pedal in this like church closet and in between services would go set it up on the electronic drum set and try to keep up with like demon hunter songs. I was like a very young kid and I was terrible, but you know.
00:38:38
Speaker
That's cool, man. Even at at that young age, you had like access to like cool. How'd you find that kind of music? Was it just through people in the church? like How'd you gravitate towards um so that? The Christian cable box, we'll circle back to that. It had yeah Discovery Channel, Fox News, of course, TBS. Then there was a station called TVU. There was like a radio side to it as well called Radio U. I think it's I think it might still be around. I think they're out of Cleveland and it was just like Christian MTV where they would just play music videos and have like the the heavy hour, you know, the pop punk hour, the, you know, editor's favorite hours. And I would just watch music videos. And I know you mentioned Emory right when we started recording. That was the first band with like prominent screaming that I ever heard was that walls music video. Yeah. Um,
00:39:34
Speaker
And I remember hearing it for the first time. I didn't know what to think of it. Mom told me to turn it off, obviously. Uh, and I just kept going back to it as that. And you guys remember show bread, obviously. Oh my God. Yeah. I got to see a really, I got the only time I ever saw them. Uh, there was a festival that would go on in Pennsylvania called purple door. Uh, that hasn't existed for a very, very, very long time, but.
00:40:00
Speaker
Uh, I got to see them play there and I, I never personally got into them too much, but I remember catching their set and being like this fucking rules. Like these, they are, they, those guys put on a great show. Yeah. And the first show that I played with CU space cowboy was so unnerving. It was that furnace fest that happens in Birmingham. No way. Yeah. Cause you joined them in, was it 2021? Yeah. Right. Unlike the tail ends of COVID.
00:40:31
Speaker
Um, right before we recorded the album before this most recent one, uh, was when I joined. And yeah, that was like the scariest day of my life, you know, cause I went from lockdown to suddenly I am playing a festival headline by a under row. Emory showbread did like their first show in however many years that day too. And I remember, yeah, I was so emotional that day just watching Emory and I kept telling myself, I'm going to go up and talk to him. I'm going to go up and talk to him. But.
00:40:59
Speaker
Just that eight-year-old fanboy would not let it happen. I was too nervous to go and talk to. And I know they're nice guys and I've listened to their podcasts all the time. So I, you know, I'm mad at myself that I didn't go up and make some kind of introduction, but I would have made a fool of myself for sure. How bad of a path would it have put you on if you would have just been like, look, man, it's really not the time or the place.
00:41:24
Speaker
Oh, God. I remember I changed your life. I don't think that I listened to switch with the same after that, you know, I did my best, but you know, that's on me out. I was I was too young to have been told off like that, you know, you sign the order for the nine year old and it doesn't it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, you're not like you don't know anything. You have no idea what a social faux pas even is yet. Yeah, especially as a as a home school kid, you know, he should have he should have seen right through that.
00:41:52
Speaker
Like, you easily at that point could have been wearing your veggie tails PJs to church and not even felt weird about it. Yeah, exactly. We had all circles. Yeah, right back around until, yeah, I was shirtless and jumping in the ocean as a little fat boy. I just wanted the drum set. I just wanted the autographs, you know? It's simpler times. It's cool that your parents got like, did you have an interest in drums or they're just like, hey, we think you'll like this. I think my mom said that when I was like,
00:42:22
Speaker
I would just be like hitting stuff on the floor and she said that it was in time. And I think that that thought just mixed with like a cheap $89 drum set at Toys R Us just kind of made that happen. Yeah. And it was a terrible kit. It was just like a Tom, a Tom, a hi-hat and a cymbal. I think it was like three pieces.
00:42:46
Speaker
So i was I was doing my best, but, you know, the baptism was, you know, that was the best thing that happened to me at the time. So like the Lord brought that to fruition then. You know, we'll look at it that way. i like And you turned your back on him. How dare you? know exactly Oh, God. Oh, God.
00:43:09
Speaker
forgot You took what you needed and you left. How do you feel about that? I mean, thanks to Demon Hunter for teaching me the double bass. Thanks to the singer Switchfoot for ruining my life. ah It stuck out to me that you said that you found a double bass kick in your church. i didn't I've never attended a church where a double bass pedal was a thing. So what was going on there? So this was the like the fourth and fifth grade room where I was doing
00:43:44
Speaker
You know, I was drumming pretty much every service for years. And I was probably like sixth or seventh grade at the time, maybe a little bit before. ah And I think somebody just donated this electronic drum kit to the church with all pieces included, and they packed a double bass pedal away. And when I found it, oh my God, yeah.
00:44:07
Speaker
That's wild. Even playing drums for your church at that young is impressive. ah i i i wanted to I wanted to play drums so bad. I started to. I took lessons. And it was when I met like my the metal kids that I became friends with where I was like, you know I was listening to a lot of like newfound glory, sticks and stones. like and I would try to, I was big, at the again, here's the variation, right? It was like, I also was listening to I remember trying to drum along to like project 86 songs to burn your bridges by and I couldn't I was bad I was a bad news I'm bad at all things music and I but I was like I didn't know that until I met people who were like decent at it like I won't even say they were like you know blowing anyone away but when I met
00:44:59
Speaker
when I met these people when I was like 16, I was probably like 16, 17. And I and then I would go to their band practice. And then I watched them play ago. That was the last time I touched a drum kit. I was like, I've been doing this for like, four years. And I am, I'm, I'm obviously horrible at this. That was defeating to just have to admit that this wasn't going to happen for me. But for you to be playing at like sixth, seventh grade for your church. That's pretty sick, dude. You obviously had a knack for it. I remember, yeah, like seven or eight. Uh, we were still going to like the smaller church, the the guy they met at the grocery store and every church service would have like no drums or it would have like a guy hitting the cajon or the bongos or something. And jimbay yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that move. It's a great move. Uh,
00:45:54
Speaker
And my mom was like a huge advocate for me back then. And she she knew that I wanted to play with people and nobody in like our little homeschooled circle was a musician in any capacity. So she just like bugged this like 60 year old guy with a ponytail lead in worship. She's like, can my son try out? Can my son try that try out? He's only seven years old, but he would be amazing. ah And he he yeah, he gave me a shot. He burned me a little mix CD with all of their normal songs. And I'm sure saying that I aced it is Not technically true anymore, you know in the moment and and according to my parents I i killed it, but I'm sure that it was decent enough to Carry through but yeah, they would always joke that there are drummers and it was in like a kid seat in the car You know, this is crazy world that' i mean right That's the but thing about church though is uh, you know, we all it's like I
00:46:49
Speaker
what you know We can all talk about where things went south, but it also did give us the like the opportunities like that. like The amount of people who found opportunity to engage musically ah in front of a crowd.
00:47:03
Speaker
um is i mean and Church has probably given us some of the best musicians on the planet. Oh, yeah. ah So many people that will never go past it. you know like Just watch a mega church show. like There's so much production that goes into it. Everybody's on this.
00:47:19
Speaker
The metronome, you know, everybody's they got backing tracks now. It's crazy. The venue or the church that might my family goes to now, there's four different venues that you can choose from genre wise for worship. so there's the There's like the rock room where it's like, you know, a little bit upbeat. They'll play, what's the song? Like a real heavy version of how he loves, you know?
00:47:43
Speaker
Always good. Yeah. um do they But do they use the sloppy wet kiss or do they change it to ah do they change the words? I think that they they kept it nitty gritty. They kept the sloppy wet kiss. Wow. That's impressive. Good for that. you know But that's the rock and roll room. you know that's just That's just how it goes down in there. ah Then there would be like a, I'm trying to think of the best way to put it, but it was like bluesy, bluegrass kind of room.
00:48:12
Speaker
Or just be like one guy with ah a guitar or a fiddle of some sort, just, you know, singing his heart out. Uh, just like the classic Hillsong contemporary room. And then, uh, there was a non worship room where you could just talk to, uh, talk to fellow churchgoers and then they'd, they'd put the sermon on a projector room for probably like a thousand people per service. It was crazy. I would want to go to the rockability room with, uh, everybody's got like,
00:48:41
Speaker
Pompadour, there's a lot of ah white snake owners in the crowd. yeah Classic, you know, maybe some rat rods. That's where it's at. And every room would have like a different kind of vibe with their snacks. So that was the fun part of church at later times in life, was just going and, you know, hitting the church buffet, you know, through the four venues. Oh my God. Use Funyuns for sure.
00:49:08
Speaker
I think you might have just made Casey hard talking about church food. but yeah oh yeah and like In the later years of going to church when I kindly kind of finally decided that I wasn't into it anymore, I would just go into the church kitchen, get a six-pack of Costco muffins. I'd lock myself in the handicapped bathroom and just watch movies on my laptop. I'm not kidding at all. i want I watched Pulp Fiction for the first time in a handicapped church bag.
00:49:42
Speaker
Eating muffins. Sitting on the toilet eating Costco muffins. The size of a baseball mitt. Exactly.
00:49:54
Speaker
ah
00:49:58
Speaker
That sounds fun. oh I would like get through all the Oscar nominations, you know, I'd i'd go through the list. um My friends would let me like torrent movies at their house, and then I'd put them on my iPod disguised as like a different name like, you know, third day live in concert 2012. And it was just the movie 12 years a slave. Yeah, it was it was a good times.
00:50:27
Speaker
That's hilarious, dude. I'm dying right now. so What is the like the trajectory of your spiritual engagement through that time period? It's hard to kind of keep track of the ages, but I'd say up through probably seventh to eighth grade, I was pretty into it.
00:50:50
Speaker
and I remember in seventh grade as well, ah my church would do something called the 30-hour famine. Yes, I did those too. I loved them and I always wanted to do more. I did. It turned me into like an insomniac with a ah vague eating disorder.
00:51:07
Speaker
ah but you know that's Whatever, because we would just stay up all night just chugging water and apple juice. and I remember I watched Indiana Jones at the 30 Hour Famine and my mom was not not pleased with the church for that. It was PG. I wanted to do a 30 Hour Famine because the girl I had a crush on was also doing it. Full disclosure. it was like yeah Not that like what are you think it's going to happen. You're like the idea isn't even like I wasn't even hoping for holding hands at that point. i'll ah get My only M.O. like kissing off the table. I knew that wasn't going anywhere. Holding hands would have been like at that. But my M.O. was just hearing that like being able to like find our way into a ah private space and talking and and her saying that she likes me. That was really.
00:52:02
Speaker
but like that I was driven by that. I would love to write a fanfiction about you at the 30 hour famine. You and this girl sneak off to pray and then you share some animals, like sale animal crackers in the church nursery. But then you kind of feel guilty afterwards. So you guys go and help each other throw up so that you keep your word. And then you get married at a very young age and you grow to hate each other.
00:52:32
Speaker
That could have happened. ah ah Instead what happened was ah i we would have tag time and that was an acronym that just dropped out a word completely. Our tag time was Time Alone With God.
00:52:46
Speaker
And i I strategically placed myself in an area where we could have ah eyesight of each other. yeah by I was desperately trying to lock eyes. she Was she in on the game or was she totally unaware that she was avoiding your eyesight? It never worked.
00:53:09
Speaker
Uh, no, never hit it off. Uh, she actually, it was very clear that she like from not too long ago, like she was there because it was like, you should do this. Like she was, she didn't have the buy-in to Christianity that I did at that time. So it was, uh, and that was a struggle for me. I was, uh, I was at war with myself over that. Cause I knew that she wasn't all in and I knew how important it was to find someone who was all in. his kind I get it.
00:53:38
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, that famine period was the last time I remember being like on fire about it because you, i don' I'm not sure if it was different per church or per organization, but you would go door to door and ask the neighbors, oh, will you sponsor me to starve myself and give me a dollar an hour? And it all goes to the all goes to the Sudan or whatever it was at the time.
00:54:00
Speaker
god I didn't do that part. I don't remember what I did. I do want, I want to look into that. Cause it was an organization that churches would partner with. And I do want to look into how much they skimmed off the top at this point. I'm glad you brought this up. Yeah. And then it kind of has me, you know, wanting to start a new business, you know, people would just throw their money at me and just be like, yeah, of course, of course. And I guess it sounds bad when I say it out loud, but yeah, just create like a ring of children to go and do the same thing. And then, you know,
00:54:29
Speaker
Give them some off the top, they get a cut. It sounds bad when I say it out loud. It felt good in my head, but... It's like it's like ah the white woman's Tupperware for young Christian boys. I love it. I'm ah um ah i'm on board, dude. Yeah, there you go. We'll invest. We will invest. 30 Hour Famine is like the anti-pot, which is also the best part of church. So it's an inversion. There would be a... there would be a There would be a potluck at the end, and you know, obviously I looked forward to that part. And everybody could bring their own thing, but I was raised... So you brought food roll-ups? So I was raised vegetarian, so I would just have my mom bring me Mexican food of some sort, you know? Because I didn't want to eat, you know, stranger's chili at the time, I was terrified. Stranger's chili is the most mysterious of foods.
00:55:23
Speaker
the mysterious vat of brown after you've been starving yourself. It's not what you want, you know? I'm surprised by the vegetarian angle now, man. You keep throwing curveballs at us because that feels like some liberal bullshit to me. Yeah, it technicalally it technically was. That was like a mom in college read a book decision.
00:55:44
Speaker
um And yeah, I don't know. She, even after, you know, going full-blooded, you know, conservative, ah still remains a vegetarian, ah but her doctor told her that she needs to eat red meat, so she'll eat a steak a week, but still says she's a vegetarian, you know? That's hilarious, I love it. I love the flexible morals of Christians, it always plays out that way.
00:56:07
Speaker
Always, but I'm a virgin because I've only done it in the ass, you know, I i heard somebody that I went to church with. Yeah. He was just like, well, if it's only like halfway in, it doesn't count as sex, because sex is full penetration. And I'm just like, okay, you know, that adds up in my book, you know, perfect. It doesn't count if you, it's like Mormon soaking, but only go in, like you just get the headed. And then if you flex and just feel it.
00:56:37
Speaker
You know, pulse in there. It's not sex. It's just biology happening in the same place at the same time. It's something undiscovered, you know? It's beautiful. The poop hole loophole is what we talked about. yeah Liberty. Tell me about it. I feel like my pants acted as just ah ah like a thin denim condom all through all college.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah, it was just like, uh, you know, just, just rubbing holes in our pants. Like try not to, uh, not to go. They actually named uncrustables after Casey's jeans.
00:57:20
Speaker
oh oh man oh my god duda but a Backseat dry hump after CC's pizza buffet.
00:57:39
Speaker
and you had that massive ass truck to do it dude yeah you could literally in your truck go full missionary position and not even touch the doors it was sick it's very romantic
00:57:53
Speaker
o ah All right, so you have your 30 hour famine. That was like the last time that you really felt connected. And yeah what was was the shift out like? what did it What was it like for you to stop feeling like there was a connection to this? So when I was doing the famine and going door to door, I remember I went to this neighbor's house and she like yelled at me. She was like, that's so unhealthy to do. Why would your church be like harming kids and making them starve themselves? And I remember I just looked her square in the eyes and said something like, well,
00:58:24
Speaker
It's God's will and we're helping his children and he will keep me safe. Good day. And just walk away. ah so that ah That's the last time I remember being that into it. And then I think like eighth grade is, yeah, when I met the the dude in the anti flag shirt and joined like my first real band, you know, that wasn't the band that played, but came before that was just me and a dude on guitar. And we just covered disciple. We covered Daughtry and that was the set. yeah Amazing.
00:58:53
Speaker
Which Disciples songs do you remember? It was, uh, it was like a later one. Dear, Dear X from like that album with the grenades on it. Do you remember that one? Yeah, I think so. You'd remember the chorus if you heard it for sure. It's one of those. Yeah. I had the, I liked their self-titled one with like, the wait is over. That was my favorite. That was the first one that I heard. And then I remember that Scar's Remain music video was like the sickest shit I'd ever seen at the time. Yeah.
00:59:23
Speaker
And even watching that, me and Chris watched that when we started, you know, talking about thousand foot crutch. Um, and yeah, that's a great track. He was reminding me of so many, uh, so many deep cuts that I'd forgotten about and, and vice versa. Um, so yeah, it was, yeah, around eighth grade, I did that, but while I was playing in like this. Blink anti-flag cover band, whatever you want to call it. Um,
00:59:50
Speaker
I was also like volunteering still at the church and I would go and be like a camp counselor for like a week at the summer camp to like fifth and sixth graders. And I remember like the first time seeing how it all worked from the inside and how little effort like all of the pastors were actually putting into like these kids just kind of got my head turning and I was just like, hey, I never noticed. Why, why do we watch like funny YouTube videos for like 20 minutes of the church service, you know? And that's how I would go. Like it would be yeah worship.
01:00:20
Speaker
20 minutes of YouTube videos, plus like an improv stand-up set from a youth pastor, and then, you know, somehow tie that into tie that into God. Dude, yeah youth pastors loved improv sets. Everything was like a Christian version of what they did on like, Who's Liza anyway. Yeah. What were like the other the other main things that kind of swayed me? ah While I was like volunteering, I was still listening to like a lot of Christian rock, and I remember one of the pastors there was just like, like, if you listen to that, it just keeps bringing like darkness into your soul. And like, I don't care if they say that it's for God, it's, it's all darkness, you know, it's like, flipknot's gonna be next. I'm like, thinks that disciple and skillet are gonna bring evil into my life. So that just started like jelling myth me weird. And just as I grew up, and yeah, I feel like watching all of the movies in the church bathrooms, you know, kind of
01:01:16
Speaker
and i hadn't had I hadn't had much life experience at that point. So kind of like seeing things and being like, what's this about? Like I had no idea what weed was until I watched Pineapple Express. And I was like, what is this movie even about? I have no idea what's going on. Your parents are like, why does he take an hour and 20 minute shit every Sunday? it Every Sunday. And eventually they caught on to my handicap bathroom kind of technique. So I would like leave the church property and just like go and sit on a curb somewhere and just watch movies because I'm like, I don't want to go there. And I'd go back just to play drums and then go back out and resume whatever movie I was watching at the time. um Did anyone ever catch on to that? where they Did they get to a point where they're like, dude, you what do you you're not here. like You can't keep doing drums if you're not here? Or did you kind of keep it on the deal? I always had an answer. I told them that I was going to like the the adult auditorium. I'm like, I feel like I'm learning more there and I'm growing more there.
01:02:15
Speaker
And at that point it was kind of just becoming a game. And I was actively avoiding just being there, um but was still keeping up with the volunteer work just to keep the parents happy.
Independence and Musical Horizons
01:02:25
Speaker
And cause at that point it was all that I really, all that I really knew and the only outlet I had to play drums with people. So yeah, meeting this new group of friends that introduced me to all this music was huge. ah Finally branching out and getting like a little bit of freedom when I turned 16 and got my first car was like a big thing as well.
01:02:45
Speaker
Um, yeah, kind of that and the combination of seeing how little effort went into all of this stuff for kids just kind of, kind of swayed me. Um, and obviously the thing or switch foot, uh, we're gonna, I'm gonna blame him as number one mental moment. He, he, uses he needs to know, he needs to know that he is single-handedly responsible for your, uh, your demise and Christianity. yeah It is fascinating that like the idea like it's it's interesting that that suddenly noticing how little like these these leadership figures care about what's going on in the in the like youth group and stuff is a fundamental moment. Because I feel like that's something... it's It's interesting how as you get older and you start to... like the the
01:03:42
Speaker
The chasm between you and the adults in the room, quote unquote, gets smaller and smaller. like You have these little like moments of ah of like you know clear vision where you can all of a sudden see, like wait what does this person do? like How are they actually like contributing here? i mean we've We've talked about him like a bunch of times, but there is this guy that was like a ministry youth pastor or whatever that was in our town that wasn't actually like connected to any of the churches. And somehow he just kind of survived off of like skimming donations from churches in the area and stuff. He was kind of involved with all of them, but didn't really do anything. And he was kind of a weird guy, single, been around a long time and just
01:04:31
Speaker
Anytime he did anything, like they would have him come speak at our school, like, cause we had chapel like once a week. And, uh, anytime he was supposed to speak, he'd show up like 10, 15 minutes late and he always looked like disheveled and stuff. And like, I remember at one point, I remember at one point, like my dad making a comment that, you know, he was kind of a loser. And I, I just, all of a sudden I was like, like you are like,
01:05:01
Speaker
My dad was on to you if you were doing that kind of stuff, you know, back in the day and like, uh, yeah, it was just all of a sudden you're like, this guy is an authority figure. He's like, he's like telling us what's wrong with us. And yet like, he is kind of a loser. Like he doesn't do anything. He doesn't put anything into this. Like he clearly didn't prepare for any of this. And like, I don't know. It's just.
01:05:24
Speaker
It's interesting how those types of moments kind of shape your perception of like the adults in the room and and the significance of like what they're telling you. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like so many of their sermons, if we want to call it that, were just made up on the spot, pulled out of their ass. You know, they saw like something on YouTube and just kind of, you know, went on with that vibe and made it their own kind of thing.
01:05:51
Speaker
And just being there for so many hours before and after services and being around staff, ah just seeing how everything really did work. I'm like, all these people are just coming to work like everybody else. They're miserable to be here. You know, like this guy is spending, you know, four hours of a Thursday night, like playing kid songs with me, you know, it can't be awesome.
01:06:13
Speaker
um And then even once I hit, I'd say freshman year in high school is when like people there started to notice, I started volunteering less. I would just walk to a Starbucks down the street, not even go on the property and just did my own thing. And the youth pastor's like, Oh, do you want to like hang out and get lunch? And I feel like we really need to talk and I want to know where you're at. And I'm like, yeah, sure. And I was like, I'll be honest, I'll, I'll have a conversation with him. And he just never showed up to pick me up.
01:06:43
Speaker
Are you kidding me? That's wild. three spiritual dates and terrible um Dude, it's funny because my experience, but the thing that frustrated me so much in my world was like I was so like all fucking in and the youth pastor, oh like it was always the kids who were like on the fringe that he cared about. It was always like, you know, the ones that he thought might not stay in it, that he spent all of his time like, oh, let me like try to pursue these people so that way they, they stay in it. And I used to get really mad because I'm like, I mean, I had validation issues. I needed people I needed. I needed authority figures to validate who I was. And that was a girl.
01:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. ah And I was also in when it comes to pick me stuff would would have been like any anything where people like picked their teammates. I was the last person picked for everything. No one fucking wanted to really have me on their team kind of thing. And I so that was part of why i like went so hard into it i think like in hindsight and looking back at like myself and my psychology was like i went so fucking hard into it because that was the only world i knew and it was like i thought by going that hard into it i'd get the validation i needed from the people in my life that i thought and that i sought approval from and
01:08:04
Speaker
to have those people only chase after the ones that were fucking lost causes, essentially, like we knew like another lunch or a breakfast or an outing wasn't going to make the difference for them. um That drove me fucking insane and. ah All I wanted was for like a youth pastor or pastor someone who is a quote-unquote spiritual authority to to and ask me to do anything and validate my pursuit of knowledge within evangelical Christianity. so like and To hear your story where this guy tried, likew like you were that person, you were the fringe person who was on their way out. and
01:08:43
Speaker
He goes, like, tries to set up these things to supposedly pursue you and then it's like, doesn't show up. That's crazy to me. Like, what else? What is your fucking job? Did he apologize? I think he entirely forgot about it the first time and apologized for forgetting about it when I, like, reminded him. I was like, where were you? You know, the other day we were supposed to go geocaching. Man, it turned bright red, didn't know what to say.
01:09:13
Speaker
um and then after the second time I was just like yeah I'm over this and I feel like by the time they all did kind of realize I was on my way out I mean I was so in it for so long and had been playing music with all of these people for so long I feel like they'd you know just assumed that they didn't have to worry about that or that I wasn't you know with that my family was very involved in the church and was involved in, did you guys do Awana's? Do you know what that is? Yeah. Oh, yeah. you yeah and I didn't do it myself, but I did volunteer to to help out. Yeah. Awana made me terrified of sports and anything to do with the ball.
01:09:50
Speaker
oh And i I stick with that. I was always a music kid. I was never like a sports kid at all. But at Awana, we would have a thing where it was a leaders versus student dodgeball. That's literally child abuse. i don't They called it the wrong thing.
01:10:06
Speaker
I would go home with like my entire face red and like the dodgeball imprinted on it, like little patterns. They would they hated you kids. My younger brother was like hiding under the bleachers, just like shaking and just like, tell me when it's over. And I'm just like, oh my God, this is crazy. Then they bring out the dodgeball cannon and just boom, boom, boom. Start launching them. It's like a catapult.
01:10:33
Speaker
I only had to get through that much, and once I got the verses down, I could eat, you know, Rice Krispies, I could watch Bible Man, then it was the it was a good time, you know? Wherever the food was at, that's where I was at. Dude, side note, we a while back had Bible Man's daughter on. That's a new show? Oh, no, no, no. His actual daughter. Yeah, we had his daughter as a guest. That was so a lot of fun. What was that guy's name again? Willie something, or was that just on the show?
01:11:01
Speaker
What? I can't remember what his name is. Oh, he actually like talking to his, he seems like he was a pretty cool guy. Like he really ate all of that. There you go. Okay. He did like all that. Like they made the costumes and everything. Like that was his thing. He he did it all.
01:11:22
Speaker
That was one of the things we're like telling people that did not grow up Christian whatsoever about. They're just like, that's not real. That's not real. That's Power Rangers. I don't know what you're talking about. It's very real. You can only get it on VHS. Our VHS is not real. this is One of my friends insisting that it's a spoof and I'm just like, I promise.
01:11:44
Speaker
This is real. I own the entire box set. It's funny because it like it it does actually watch like a spoof now. like it has the It has the production quality of a porn parody.
01:11:57
Speaker
yeah oh yeah What's that one actor, David A.R. White, that does all the pure flicks, Christian drama movies? Have you seen any of his movies? I think we've seen it before. Same kind of thing, yeah.
01:12:11
Speaker
Where the whole time you're just waiting for it to be porn and it's, it's not. You're like, where's the payoff? yeah it's not I wasn't looking for salvation. That was. Yeah. My favorite like compatriot podcast is called boys Bible study. And a lot of it is just them reviewing like Christian movies. And I had no idea until we started talking to those guys, but there are.
01:12:40
Speaker
hundreds and hundreds of Christian movies, a lot of them like self produced or like small scale fun, you know, crowdfunded and stuff. I mean, starting in the like 60s and 70s and stuff all the way through now and they're like most of them are on YouTube and you can just watch them.
01:12:57
Speaker
And there's like one family that makes a movie every six months. And they just like, you can tell their homeschooled family that has like seven kids and their kids are in them. And like, it's the worst. It's, it's terrible. Uh, but highly entertaining too. If you're into like the hate watch kind of stuff, not big foot packs the blue or something like that. Yeah, it's, yeah I remember I watched one where Michael W. Smith was an actor in it.
01:13:26
Speaker
Um, and I, me and Chris were talking about it, trying to piece the the plot back together. Uh, but it was about like a ah white pastor that moved to a small town and becomes like the pastor of this black church and tries to, you know, it's, it's not great fraught with racial undertones. Yeah. And I might be off on the p plot, but I'm pretty sure that that's what it was. It seems like something Christians might throw out there. Uh, yeah, exactly. That was like a 2000.
01:13:56
Speaker
five or six movie. And I feel like that is the the worst of them, you know, cause they, they're like, Oh, what's a, what's a big name? And there are none. So, you know, they get Michael W. Smith, his, his debut on screen. Steve Curtis Chapman was busy at driving school for the listeners. Uh, the, the aforementioned Chris, I don't think we mentioned who he was, but Chris connect, Chris Oberholtzer, he was a guest on the podcast. He's in an amazing band called Tan and handsome.
01:14:25
Speaker
and Chris connected us in AJ. That's why his name's come up a couple of times. um Yeah, well, we'll be real. Thousand thousand foot crutch connected us. um Yeah. Because this all came up because I had a mohawk one day and we got talking about the Lord.
01:14:44
Speaker
One of the things that has not come up ah in your story of exiting Christianity, which is actually peculiar to me as someone who's talked with so many people who have left Christianity who are gay, that hasn't come up.
Personal Journey and Coming Out
01:15:00
Speaker
Your sexuality has not come up in leaving Christianity, and I'm ah fascinated by that.
01:15:06
Speaker
um Is there, was at what point has that caught was, has that been a contentious thing with your family or, and when did you like, when did you come out to your family? Yeah. Or even come out to yourself. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll get into all that since I was so, so sheltered my whole life, you know, filters on the computer, all of that. Like I had a light definition on what being gay was, but it was never really talked about.
01:15:35
Speaker
viewed as a sin. And then I remember in like the Obama versus McCain era when it was a, what was the big proposition? Prop 8. It wasn't California. Yeah. That was, that was a California guy. Yeah. Um, that's when it became like more of a talking point and just like, I guess homeschool curriculum and just understanding the world current events. And I remember thinking in my head, I was just like, no, there's no way that I'm that. There's no way that I'm that. And at the time I remember I,
01:16:06
Speaker
thought that I had like crushes at girls and girls at church and I would just kind of like walk up to them and hand them like a lollipop and then walk away without saying a word you know that was the extent of that was the first sign that you were actually gay you know yeah I didn't know it yet but in retrospect it makes too much sense but um and I don't know I was just so caught up in that echo chamber so just sure that what that was with this was a sin And I remember listening to a podcast later on in life, I was probably 17 ish right around there. Um, and it was, uh, we kind of did the podcast with a guy from this band called mix tapes, who was like a pop punk band from like 10 years ago, uh, never really did much, but that was like the first time of hearing like people being passionate on the other side after watching so much Fox news and.
01:17:01
Speaker
reading so many just Christian magazines, seeing it from one point of view. And then they're just on there like doing Southern accents and just making fun of homophobic people. And I was like, homophobic, what is that? So that kind of like opened my mind a lot, just hearing the opposing side, dealing with all of that. um And I just finally became a little bit more open with myself about, you know, how i I was like, okay, I think that this is me. I hope that I grow out of it at the time was my thought process.
01:17:31
Speaker
um Came out to my friend group at the time, that anti-flag shirt group of friends. That all went over pretty well. um And then at that time, I was playing in like a pop punk band. They wanted to go on tour. um Tour was booked. My parents were not budging on letting me go. I'm like, I'm going to be like 18 by the time that they go. Wasn't happening, wasn't happening. So on like 18th birthday, typed them out a very well worded note, came out.
01:18:01
Speaker
Told them how I was feeling about church. Told them that I was moving out, which was a- Whoa. That's a heavy blow for your parents, I imagine. It was a ripping off the Band-Aid technique, I guess, is a way to put it, where I- Yeah. Yeah, instead of doing anything gradually, it was just all of it at once. And I got the police called on me. I was woken up in my new place the next day, just police at the door. And she was trying to go the, I stole family property route.
01:18:30
Speaker
um with my drum set and my laptop at the time. um That's a heavy handed response. Yeah, cops went away. You know, me and my mom had just like a long crying session in the car and everything came out. I was being begged to come home and I was just like, no, you know, I need to I need to figure my shit out for a while. And then went on my first tour, played or won the Battle of the Bands and played my local Warped Tour.
01:19:01
Speaker
And that's when everything really started creeping up. I'm like, Oh, this is kind of what I want to do. And for the first time being like exclusively surrounded by people that accepted me and all of that, which felt just so foreign at the time. I'm just like, Oh my God, like you guys are such sinners. You accept cake. Oh, wait, I am gay. It's just like going through so many mental, and trying to figure out what the fuck was going on with my head. Um, and as of now, me and my parents are on much better terms.
01:19:30
Speaker
um I did eventually move back in once I started touring full time because, you know, making limited money doing music and living in California don't go hand in hand, especially no shit not in recent years, you know, to move back in with them.
Art, Blasphemy, and Catharsis
01:19:48
Speaker
Mostly smooth things over and they came and saw some my band play for the first time ever on this last tour Which was a ah big step. That's huge man. Good for you. That's awesome. Thank you Have they seen your ah respite for a tragic tale music video because I did and it's filthy I Think okay. I think that name that was the less filthy music video. The filthy one is lubricant like kerosene Oh, I guess I didn't watch that one too Yeah, there's there's one that's you know, iffy and then one that's yeah, oh, is that an orgy in a church? I just told her I was like, just just don't watch it. You'll thank me later. It's violent. It's a little sexy. You know, one thing that I've come to love, um the older I get is like,
01:20:38
Speaker
uh tasteful blasphemy like this this shitty blasphemy where it's just like like that middle school like try hard approach like that like new atheist kind of horseshit where you're like grow up dude like you just are mad still like Um, but there's a, there's a way to do blasphemy that I think is like, it's like dialectic in a sense. Like i I have a huge appreciation for it. I think it's like holding a mirror to the insanity and some of the horseshit that we came up with. And I think you, I know it's perceived as incredibly disrespectful by a lot of parties, but I think for the people making it, it's like cathartic and.
01:21:22
Speaker
uh in a legitimate artistic critique of something by going like that extra mile to make it sort of offensive and i love that i'll never i'll ah the what i always one of the things i always think of is how to get like a tastefully blasphemous tattoo that uh won't get me like excommunicated from my family that i can also appreciate and not grow tired of that was like in like that angsty phase because that angsty phase is trash nobody likes anything you've ever done everyone who looks back on their angsty phase hates everything they've done oh yeah want you want to avoid that too yep and of course there's you know evidence of it all over the internet you know because i've been in too many too many bands
01:22:09
Speaker
Yeah.
Joining and Evolving with C Space Cowboy
01:22:10
Speaker
Well, how, how did you get it? Like, how did you get connected? Cause, uh, see you space cowboy. They, uh, you know, at least just look at the Wikipedia, like there, there's, there's a lot of, uh, turnover, uh, for various members. And, um, obviously I forget what, when they started, but you quickly, we say you joined in 2021. Like how, um, how, how will that come about? Yeah. So they.
01:22:36
Speaker
started about six years ago, six or seven, give or take somewhere around there. And it was just supposed to be like a local at the time, just like screamo hardcore band with like all of that kind of screamo influence. I think they wanted to be like a like a melodic metalcore band, but with like that screamo kind of tone to it. um That was the original idea. I think the first thing they put out is like a mildly unlistenable demo that just, you know, sounds like the blood brothers recorded on an iPhone.
01:23:11
Speaker
oh I got connected with them at a house show, actually, ah my old twinkle band, which was called King Bloom. We're just, yeah, playing a house show.
01:23:26
Speaker
ah I met Taylor Allen, who is the clean vocalist and the bassist for C Space Cowboy, also playing in a twinkle band there. And at the same show was Timmy, who I'd kind of seen, you know, around other shows that had never talked to. ah He's the guitarist of Space Cowboy, and he was doing like a solo, like piano set with his project Nuance. So we just all like met and became aware of each other around the time I was like 18, I think, pretty freshly 18.
01:23:56
Speaker
Um, me and Taylor figured out that we were neighbors. Uh, he helped me get a job at a pizzeria and we just kind of became, you know, local music friends. Um, was a founding member of CU space cowboy and quit after the first tour because, uh, their van and trailer got clipped off the back of their car in Portland. All of their shit got stolen. Do those stories hurt every time you hear them? It's just, it's so fucked up.
01:24:23
Speaker
So I guess, you know, the the TLDR version is without getting into all of the lore and making everybody remember everybody's name is, yeah, the band just grew way faster than they ever anticipated. Um, the first tour that they went on, uh, was all self-booked and I think they played like 40 shows or something fucked up. Like they were away from a two months in a, in a Toyota 4Runner or something like that. Just truly DIY.
01:24:51
Speaker
Uh, and it was terrible that tour ended with all of the shit getting stolen. Uh, some people left more people came on towards kept getting bigger and more frequent. So, you know, people couldn't make the commitment or weren't ready for it, which explains like a lot of the member changes was just nobody, nobody expected that within like two years of being a band, they'd have like the record label, you know, knocking at the door and doing all of that stuff. Um, so I was always just like at their shows as a fan.
01:25:21
Speaker
And if you look at like early videos of them playing record shops, skate shops, and shit like that, you'll see me mashing very terribly. Just, just there hanging out. Is there another way to mosh? I know people like to think they're great at it. It never looks, it's just a thing you do for fun. It's not like, it's not as cool as people try to make it out to be. and and Never, never, ever, you know, it's, it's entertaining to watch. And, you know, I'm sure my parents were just,
01:25:51
Speaker
speechless and for many reasons watching our us play for the first time, you know, ah because they had not, yeah, they have never been to that caliber of show ever. I feel like the last time we all went to a concert together was like Reliant K or something, something like that, you know, it's a very different world. Yeah. um And yeah, the band just kept growing and growing. And I was a fan early on and I'm just like, I kind of want to be in the band, you know, it was always like in the back of my mind, I was like, you know, if they ever need somebody, I'll make myself available. um Later on, after that, like, ah members of that band and me started like a side project called staining the Twilight Black, which has our lead singer's brother, who's also in space cowboy on lead vocals. And that just kind of sounded like misery signals, counterparts, the kind of hardcore stuff.
01:26:44
Speaker
um And at the time ah they had this guy Sal drumming in the band, who's one of my favorite people. He plays in that band, Koyo, who you might've heard of now. So it just was at the point where he was in New York and everybody else was on the West coast. And he went, did the Koyo thing. They needed a drummer to come and record this new album with them and come and do all this stuff. And they, they brought me on.
01:27:13
Speaker
That's so cool. bit i love like Yeah. That's one of the things that I, my understanding of for them was that like the trajectory from just being a local band to, to having these massive tours and getting some, like it was, it was a fast growth faster than most bands normally see. It is crazy to see. And I also, sorry if I confused anybody here, any listeners, cause I was just throwing out so much information because it is just so much lore. It's hard to find the key points.
01:27:43
Speaker
But yeah, it was it was crazy just from a fan's perspective where they were playing like local record stores. And the big one where I'd always see them was Program Skate and Sound in Fullerton, which is like a pretty legendary spot. And occasionally bands will do like bigger bands will do pop up shows there and stuff like that. I think New Found Glory just is like a a set there, just as like a close friends and family like exclusive show.
01:28:08
Speaker
And that's where I kind of came up seeing Space Cowboy play. And yeah, within a few years they were, yeah, with Knocked Loose, with all these other bands that would just also continue to get bigger and bigger. um And it was, yeah, something that I always wanted to do. And when it finally happened, I was just like, I was scared shitless. I was just like, oh my God. And especially like I said earlier, like after COVID where I'd just been sitting on my ass, just getting high and doing nothing constantly, you know, going from that to, oh,
01:28:38
Speaker
I'm going to go and record at the the Will Putney studio and I have two weeks to learn 13 songs that I've never heard before, you know, like it threw me through a loop, but you know, I'm glad that it happened because it kind of got me off of my ass, got me off of, you know, drugs and all this other nasty shit and And really, uh, yeah, changed, changed a lot in a good way. That's so sick. Awesome. So you guys just got off of a ah pretty good, pretty big tour. Uh, is there an idea of what's next or are you guys chilling for a minute? before yeah So chilling for a minute. Uh, the next one is also with the devil wears Prada and a couple of other bands in Europe. Um, yeah that one starts, I think February 3rd or 4th.
01:29:24
Speaker
and we're playing LDB festival in the spring which is like a big hardcore thing that happens in Louisville ah with a lot of amazing bands I think like Basement is headlining this year and like a bunch of others that I can't think of off the top of my head but uh and then announcing like another US tour within the next month or so I hope but it's also going to be one of the the biggest ones that we ever did and with the band that I grew up listening to and I'm very excited for that to all. Is it or Skillet? POD, Skillet, or Switchfoot? Which one? It's actually red. You remember them? Dang! Is it really good? No, no.
01:30:04
Speaker
i love go and nothing Dude, the even reason I bought it is because I feel like some Torp... like i Okay, so i we talked to the guys from... And they they don't have any Christian upbringing at all. I just adored this band, so when they came back, ah made sure I got them on the podcast ah from a second story window. Yeah. ah And one of the what they stated as like, they're the biggest challenge and why they didn't carry on and why they quit after the release of their conversations out they they basically broke up before that album got released. um And it was because the tour packages they got put on never really made sense. It was either like two metal or
01:30:47
Speaker
to something like they just didn't feel like they found where they fit. And they they did the whole like, say yes to everything. Because that's what felt like you had to do to be successful in that world. So um after like, just getting on all these tour pages that they thought would be the one thing that popped them off, it just the fan base at those shows was never really what they needed to really grow. So all I had to say, like, there was an era where Tor packages had to kind of make sense. And now, you know, holding absence is going on Tor with the plot and you and like, you can just kind of do anything now, it feels like.
01:31:26
Speaker
I feel like the whole tour package idea of like you have to all be this kind of a metalcore band in order for people to care is really I feel like some of those uh some of that gatekeeping bullshit is really falling apart and and having an alternative music. People just seem to be into music you know and it's often because my band can fit in on so many different kinds of tours you know whether it is like dedicated hardcore and metalcore tours or if it's with like the new metalcore stuff like Devil Wears Prada and Amity Affliction which both have been amazing tours and then even like the the pop rock stuff you know it's there's there's a place for us everywhere and it's it's awesome because I don't know we are I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn but we
01:32:14
Speaker
Our sound is kind of all over the place, you know, and that was something that we struggled with because we do change our sound, you know, slightly from album to album, from like grindy to metal chords, post hardcore to whatever you want to call, uh, who to grow the new one. Um,
Industry Critiques and Cover Songs
01:32:30
Speaker
it's cool. And yeah, I've, I've experienced exactly what you're talking about firsthand where you have people just, just like music and people just want to show. And I feel like.
01:32:38
Speaker
I feel like COVID weeded out so many of the haters and people just butted heads and picked it up bickered on the internet for so long. yeah Everybody's just over it now, which is... Yeah, thanks, Finn MacKinty. Oh, God. Oh, God. You did it all for the nickels.
01:32:55
Speaker
he He shouted out East Bay's cowboy at a very early time, so I guess thanks for that, but you know ah let that's all you'll get. yeah and then And then last week he decides that he's going to tell the world he actually hates music and only did his thing for the money.
01:33:10
Speaker
my I thought that that was like a hard times article or something like that. I had no idea that that was real. It was very weird. Listening to that interview was mind blowing because you're just like, whatever we don't have we don't need to get into all of it now. If you you know who Finn McKinney is. It is hilarious because he he I kind of stopped watching some of his videos because he was like so hard on Taylor Swift and like kind of accused her of being like a money grubber and stuff and it's like,
01:33:40
Speaker
Okay, well, that's like your whole thing. yeah yeah you just admitted that That is your move. o he just Yeah, exactly. oh yeah whatever that or Enjoy your next phase ah selling timeshares or whatever, Finn. yeah yeah god I don't know. Okay, so I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, we we should stop talking about him. It won't go anywhere good. It's okay.
01:34:08
Speaker
Okay, so you get okay like yeah and you can you can have a couple you can You can pick a few things here if you want. The band comes to you and they say, look, AJ, we want to do something special just for you. ah We are going to cover whatever Christian rock song you want. We'll cover it. what What's in the lead? What you picking?
01:34:34
Speaker
in song is that what you're saying you can what band do you want to cover what song yeah yeah yeah what song you want it what what song that is a great question okay um i want to go for a good one so i'm gonna go you know we'll keep it in the family i'd love to see the band tan and handsome cover the song rock fist by thousand foot crutch oh dude they would make this happen And I want to be there so that we can, you know, both trade off on the versus and have a ah beautiful little moment with the fists in the air, you know? Oh, my God. I hope I look, I'm not I had no intention of trying to go in this direction, but I would love to see whatever tour you have coming up in the US next. I would love to a be able to see you guys and Tan and handsome on the same bill. That that would be awesome. I, you know, I
01:35:29
Speaker
i push every button that I need to do to make that happen or at least have them because we did a cool thing on our album release tour where we had like a different like local regional kind of thing so we'd have one band open the tour for three days another band would jump on for the next and I want to say Tann and Hanson was on that list because I'm a huge fan of them and a huge fan of Chris but it never it never came to fruition but Uh, you know, it'll, it'll happen eventually. I always, the guy that always will be like, Hey, can we have this band open? I found them on band camp or I found them, you know, they played after something on Spotify. I want them to open the show and I've made, I've made awesome friends that way. You know, I love that man. That's sick. I have like a foxing, foxing on their most recent tour was doing their like.
01:36:18
Speaker
They put it out to have like everyone based on their, they put out their tour dates and they're like, we want local bands to email us like a couple of songs and we're going to basically listen to all of this shit. And we're going to decide which local bands open for us, which is like such a huge undertaking when you think of like a full us tour. Uh, and I thought that was such a sick move. Well, that really, really is. Yeah, I did. I did see that happening as well.
01:36:46
Speaker
That new Foxing album was crazy and by the way. Yeah. Fucking unbelievable. I kind of fell off of them after dealer came out and don't really know what they did in the meantime, but yeah, that album blew me away. Their vocalist grew up evangelical Christian. Really? Okay. Yeah. Him and I had some back and forth. I was trying to make it work out and then they had tours and it didn't, and it's been this long back and forth. My hope is that someday it works out because I I'd love to hear his story.
01:37:14
Speaker
That's awesome. And that, that kind of adds up. I kind of, obviously the lyrics don't directly, you know, reflect that, but I don't know. I can, I can feel some of that. It's the dog whistle for people who grew up in that world. We hear it. Yeah, we we know. We can tell from across the street. Yep. That's awesome. So lastly, um, I noticed that you have a cross earring in your left ear. Is that to taunt God?
01:37:41
Speaker
You know, that'd be fun. I think it's just a gay thing. I don't know. I don't know how else to put it, you know? It's kind of a yes or yes sort of thing. You know, it's it's not in the gay side. ah So, you know, it's it's on the straight side and I'm taunting God. So I guess maybe I'm still at war. You know, who knows? I'm still on the spiritual journey. You know, I'm going to do the 30 hour famine next year and I'm going to You know, I mean, yeah, we're going to, we're going to go back. We start a cult after that. Who knows? You know, we all just sit in handicap stalls, watch movies, and then just eat muffins and reflect on them after. It'll be like a, like a, we, I don't know what the point of the church is at that point. It's just like a movie club, but some of my favorite movies. That's kind but that's kind kind of a nice heaven's gate sort of vibe to it. Yeah, exactly. I'll attend at least one meeting.
01:38:35
Speaker
It'll go from Hollywood to just movies made by me that are just, you know, we'll figure out what the cause is later. You'll bring vanity projects. It's kind of what you do in religion anyway. You go, here's the idea and we'll figure out like how to close the gaps later. Exactly. Uh, but yeah, aside from cowboy, uh, I do, I do vocals and another like metal core, hardcore band, uh, called buried, but still breathing.
Creative Projects and Influences
01:39:03
Speaker
We just put out like our first music in like five years since pandemic and since me joining this band and touring so much. ah And that was fun. A lot of songs about God, a lot of songs about the gays, a lot of songs about all of that. And that's just a fun outlet to be able to not be at the back of the stage. it was ah It was an adjustment period going from a drummer to a mic. Oh,
01:39:27
Speaker
I have a microphone now. I don't know what to do with my hands. What's going on? ah But it's ah it's a fun outlet. And they'll just play all the the hardcore shows locally. And we played a played an underground like wrestling ring. And the stage was just the ring. And I was just bouncing around. Oh, my god. That sounds so fun. Yeah. And that's like how I came up. And I never want to lose the connection to that San Diego kind of scene where I came from. So that that band has been a thing for six years and will probably never die.
01:39:57
Speaker
ah I wrote a book as well. Oh, no way. That's the thing that a lot of people, I'll still have people come up to me and they're like, when did you write a book? I'm like, like a year and a half ago. I post about it constantly. But it just is one of those things that slip through the cracks. But it's just like a ah fictional novel, ah novella, I guess, it's like 100 pages long, vaguely inspired from true events. And so many people read it and assume that it's like nonfiction and that it's like, you know,
01:40:26
Speaker
ah actually something that happened to me. But the book is just about a band on tour in Europe. Their fill in drummer is a recovering junkie. He's convinced that their bus driver is out to kill them and something is off about him. The rest of the band keeps telling him that he's crazy. Then weird shit starts to happen. ah Something that I always wanted to do was just somehow write and self publish a book. ah And yeah, that's on like Barnes and Noble and Amazon.
01:40:57
Speaker
and all of that stuff occasionally at the merch table at shows as well. ah Yeah, that was something. What's it called? ah It's called Chasm. Chasm. Okay. Yeah. Oh, man. That's awesome. That's really cool. I feel like there's not a lot of ah media, like film, books, whatever series around bands other than it made me immediately think of I think it was Green Room was like the horror kind of thing where you're like,
01:41:25
Speaker
ah revolving around punk music. like any i love I love stories that revolve around ah the music world that I'm connected to because it it feels often fringe and it doesn't get sucked into like mainstream media. And sometimes when it does, it's kind of... um What's the word that I'm looking for? It's just kind of...
01:41:48
Speaker
I really hate that I'm blanking on a word that feels like the I'm following. I know. it Yeah, it's just like meta. It's kind of just like, OK, we get what you're doing. It's kind of cliche. It's not overly accurate. It's just like, oh, cool. You have a spiked mohawk and you're a piece of shit like they don't like do it justice. And that's accurate things like green room where you're like, oh, it felt like they brought like ah this this idea of punk music into something more ah more relatable and realistic.
01:42:17
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, like hearing you talk about your your book. I love that. I love the idea of bringing that idea and um and into that story. I think that story sounds great. Thank you, dude. Yeah. Just a very few copies have been printed of that. I just designed it, printed it all myself and brought it on on tour. And then I found out that Amazon and Barnes and Noble will do the same thing and just take a commission.
01:42:44
Speaker
So anybody can read it and get it on their kindles and their e-readers and all of that stuff. But I remember I was, ah I was obsessed with like musicians writing books. Cause I know the singer of project 86 wrote a book that I read growing up. And that was like my first look at like tour stories and all of that stuff, which really had me wanting to do that at the time of reading it. I know the dude from show bread wrote a book as well or something.
01:43:08
Speaker
comics or books, I don't remember which one or both. They went pretty evangelical, didn't they? He he definitely did. he he Yeah. I think his book was about, um like hopped on like the anti, like, oh, the deconstruction train of like, why yeah deconstructing deconstruction or some dumb shit like that. Or you have the phone on Michael Gorman.
01:43:34
Speaker
the The my chemical romance guys is like mostly a comic book writer at this point. like Yeah, exactly. Just he just like make. little spooky appearances here and there, you know? He's just looking for the right fit for me. I don't know. Maybe like a kids in the way erotic horror fiction sort of thing. Oh, okay. Kids in the way that get one. That was that one where I mentioned that to Chris from Tan and Handsome and we watched that music video and he was like, oh my God, this still rocks. The self titled song? What's up? How often do you see a self titled song? It's true.
01:44:10
Speaker
and but The lyrics are, we are, we are, we are, kids in the way. yeah Almost like we are, we are, or we are, the youth of the nation. I had that same thought. I was yeah i figured somebody would say it before I did, you know? No, I'm not going to sit here and listen to you two trash, the greatest band alive or dead. Okay. POD alone. No, they're awesome. And they're also a San Diego band. So I have, I have no hate in my heart for POD.
01:44:42
Speaker
I got to see them for the first time this year. who was This is close to a religious experience if I've ever had. I think they're going on tour with Switchfoot, which is, you know, a a knockdown in my book, but and great band aside from that, you know. There's tension there, but you know what? You can channel that tension into your music. they Exactly, you know.
01:45:06
Speaker
<unk> I'll write a song about childhood heartbreak stemming from an autograph encounter, you know There's been worse there's the song life is good by stellar cart that's an example of oh michael e still you know yeah yeah and Oh Boy that's gonna be stuck in my head forever now
01:45:31
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, dude, AJ, this was a lot of fun, man. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad that I cannot believe that I had not heard of this podcast before Chris had told me about it because this is so incredibly up my alley. And I have, you know, laughed so much listening to the few episodes that I have. But yeah, thank you so much for having me, guys.
01:45:55
Speaker
I can't wait. I can't wait till your next US tour announcement. I'm really hoping you guys come through Massachusetts. I'll come out and hang out. I'll ill you check on that and I'll send you the dates for it. And yeah, I'll get you guys tickets to your respective cities because that would be awesome. I'm in Kansas. So if you stop for gas on the way to somewhere better, then maybe I'll buy a hot dog off the roller. Wait, you're you're you're Massachusetts. Where are you from, Casey? I'm in Kansas. Okay, I got you.
01:46:24
Speaker
I think I've only ever played Lawrence, Kansas. I'm not sure if that is anywhere close to you, but in Lawrence, Kansas. Yeah, exactly. Yup. It's a great place to pass a kidney stone. exactly Not as good as New Mexico. It was like the breaking bad hospital where it was just weaker like eating themselves and shitting all over the floor. It's beautiful. Oh my God.
01:46:52
Speaker
ah All right, well thanks everybody for listening and we will see you next time.