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30-Dog Rescue...The Follow Up
25 Plays11 days ago
CONTENT WARNING: We discuss the conditions and treatment of dogs in breeding situations and puppy mills.
Dog rescuer extraordinaire Stefanie Klatt returns to the show to grade us on our homework. Ok, there’s no grading involved, but she does teach us about the legislative and systemic factors impacting animal rescue.
But first, we talk about the Puppy Bowl! We are super excited that they included senior dogs this time, and we shout out the best names (hi RuPaw and Lobster Roll).
Then we get into the homework. We talk about the licensing requirements for rescues/shelters versus breeders. We learn about why it’s important to do your research before buying a dog from a pet store or a breeder, as well as the legislative changes that would help better ensure quality of life for these animals. We also learn the number one state for puppy mills.
We discuss the stories we have around dog ownership and how some of these stories need to be questioned, for example, seeing certain pets or breeds as status symbols.
We dip our toes into the No Kill shelter debate, as well as the beef between (some) shelters and rescue orgs.
Then we talk accessibility and the LOIS scale.
And even though this is some heavy material, we still have stories about the cute buddies who are the reason for these episodes—dogs!
Links:
Highway 50 Freedom Ride - https://hwy50freedomride.org/
Colorado Pet Animal Care and Facilities Act - https://ag.colorado.gov/animal-welfare/pet-animal-care-and-facilities-act
No Kill Colorado - https://www.nokillcolorado.org/
Bailing out Benji - https://bailingoutbenji.com/
Goldie’s Act (content warning - videos on the site show neglected dogs) - https://www.goldiesact.org/
Pet Finder - https://www.petfinder.com/
Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Unique Interests
00:00:00
Speaker
You know that thing you love that your friends and family don't want to hear about anymore? Tell it to us, Patty and Charlotte. We want to learn all about your weird and wild obsessions or your perfectly normal hobbies that you've taken just a little too far.
00:00:15
Speaker
We want to dabble in your curious interests. Can we interest you in today's episode?
The Puppy Bowl Phenomenon
00:00:38
Speaker
Hi, Patty. Hi, Charlotte. I was trying to say it first because you you you always say it first. hi
00:00:47
Speaker
And hi, Stephanie. Hello. Thank you for coming back. Happy to be here.
00:00:57
Speaker
All right. We're talking all things puppies, which I or dogs, I should say, which I just feel is so timely given that it was just the Super Bowl and The puppy bowl was a huge hit.
00:01:10
Speaker
It's awesome. It was so much fun. Every year it's great. It gets better and better. I watched a little bit of it, not on the day, but after. And then I was looking at the the names of the dogs and I sent a link to to both of you because the names are out of control, cute and clever.
00:01:34
Speaker
trying to remember going for that adaptability and i read that um their adoption rate is a hundred percent from the puppy ball so you figure it like there 150 dogs this year so that's pretty cool it's awesome yeah and i was thinking the same thing you weren't about the names that was as they were coming on the screen. i was like, this is exactly what we were talking about. These guys cute names. but I know. I'm looking them up now. um But I feel like I would pay big money to go to the puppy bowl versus the super bowl.
00:02:13
Speaker
i mean, probably not super bowl money, but a good amount. Are there people spectating? Well, it looked like it from the video I saw, but and maybe I was looking at a different video because I was looking at one where they just kind of like had all the dogs going in. I mean, I think it was, but it was like the extended video.
00:02:38
Speaker
So maybe I was watching like the whole live stream of it versus and like an edited version. Can you spectate at the puppy?
00:02:50
Speaker
and I know they have like their handlers there and everything, you know, like the people that are with the rescues watching to make sure everything stays.
00:03:02
Speaker
Everyone's good. Yeah. I'm always so impressed how they manage all that energy. know. And that there's no like fighting or anything. Yes, exactly.
Challenges of Puppy Care
00:03:18
Speaker
It's always like so cute. oh my God, this Brule dog. Yes. I think it was like Ru-Paw was one of the the great names that I saw.
00:03:31
Speaker
my gosh. Lobster roll was my favorite. It's just a great one. Oh my God.
00:03:42
Speaker
It helps with the adaptability. Yeah. I know. There were so many, I was like, Oh, I want that one. Pickles that was hanging out in the, was all shy and scared. I was like, that's the one I would take.
00:03:56
Speaker
would mean Make pickles feel so comfortable that then it would be like thriving and out in the world. Oh my gosh. m Yeah, so that was very fun timing for us.
00:04:12
Speaker
And the fact that they had senior dogs this year was like really cute. Yes. I mean, senior dogs are adorable and so sweet.
00:04:25
Speaker
And I have one snoring next to me right now. Aww. They are the best. And they need a little, you know, extra attention, media attention to make sure that people are like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll take one, one small one and one old one.
00:04:49
Speaker
I feel like if you, if you want to not have to run around all the time, a senior dog's great. you want to give extra attention. Having puppy. yeah Having a puppy is like having a kid.
00:05:02
Speaker
It's like having a child. You have to watch them constantly. What are they into? is it quiet? Where are they? you have to go outside with them all. No, that's too much.
00:05:13
Speaker
I always tell my husband all the time. I'm like, next time I say I want to foster a puppy, tell me, you don't. I do not have time for that in my life. Yeah, I was hardd so hard. I was so lucky that I was still working from home when I got had the puppy puppy age because I had to go out every two hours and I was living in an apartment building. And so I would have to go down the hall and down the elevator and outside every two hours. And I still wouldn't catch him all the time. And that went on all night too. You know, as it's out in the middle of the night, like 2.30 and just like, oh, you think it's fun to just
00:05:53
Speaker
see what garbage has been left on the curb and you're going to eat it. Cool. Like I would like to go to bed now. It was, it was awful. Like my sister did have kids. I didn't have children, kids, like, you know, babies. And I was like, at least you can put your kid in a diaper. So like, you don't have to clean up an entire thing every time they urinate in your house, you know, like every time they have an accident, it was so much were yes and at least newborns can't move unless you move they can't go from one end of the room to the other to go pick up something and put it in their mouth yes they also don't have like little shark teeth i couldn't believe i was like i i had horrible scrapes and scratches and pokes and
00:06:47
Speaker
you know, punctures that, and I was just bleeding all the time. Like, I was just like, this will get better somehow. You did, thank God. But you're bleeding and tired.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, why am I doing this? I'm, I'm exhausted. I'm being abused. I'm just having a clean all the time. then there's some cute and fluffy.
00:07:13
Speaker
I always say if they weren't so cute, they'd probably be dead because... There's such little, they're cooping eating zombies is what we call them.
00:07:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:26
Speaker
Um, speaking of eating zombies. So last night I had decided that I wanted some ice cream, but I was too lazy and I had just like cooked a meal. And so I had so many dishes in my sink and I was like, i don't want any more dishes. So I'm just going to bring the container of ice cream. It was not as big as I'm making it, but out to the living room. And then, um,
00:07:47
Speaker
my 16 year old nephew who stays with me, he came out and I needed to ask him a question. So I run into the kitchen and I'm asking him a question. I come into the living room and Bosco's entire house is in the carton of ice cream. And he's just like, she's going to be back any minute now. So I pull him out and his whole beard is just like ice cream. He's like the happiest thing ever. And so Davine, my nephew's like,
00:08:14
Speaker
well, what happens if he eats too much of that? I'm like, well, if it were chocolate, he could die. But because it's vanilla, he will probably just have horrible diarrhea that I'm gonna have to do with.
00:08:28
Speaker
But he was happy. oh And he's got all of that fur, right? Like, so just covered in curly fur. So I'm sure that the ice cream was was just way worse than ah different dog.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah. I was like, I'll wipe it off now, but I also realized that I'm probably going to have to cut some of these things out later because they're just going to be like matted dried milk. So my place smells great.
00:08:58
Speaker
Want to come visit?
00:09:02
Speaker
Bosco is cute enough to to come visit though. what We'll post some photos. Yeah. So homework, man, depressing, right?
Volunteering and Highway 50 Freedom Ride
00:09:13
Speaker
I mean, some some of it was was depressing, but some of it, i you know, was pretty interesting. And was like, don't volunteer. Don't don't check the volunteer button because was very tempted when I was looking at the Highway 50 information.
00:09:34
Speaker
the What is it? Highway 50 Freedom Ride? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was like, just hold off. You have to wait like at least several weeks before you can like do a thing that you want to do because otherwise I sign up for everything.
00:09:51
Speaker
It's a real problem. Like what they're suggesting for gun laws, right? Like, no, there has to be a cooling off period before you can, before you can donate, before you can yeah sign up for
Breeding Practices and Regulations
00:10:05
Speaker
a rescue. Yeah.
00:10:07
Speaker
But are you talking about the no kill stuff, Patty? Yeah, yeah. And well, that and then puppy mills and some of those statistics. Yeah, so we can remind our listeners what the the homework was. it was to look into Highway 50 Freedom Ride. They've got Facebook page and website, and then there's you know pieces and on the news about them. And then PACFA, P-A-C-F-A, which is Licensing and Inspection Department,
00:10:46
Speaker
like in Colorado. so that's like licensing for facilities for all kinds of pets in Colorado and the the regulations.
00:10:56
Speaker
And then looking up ah information about no kill shelters. And you had mentioned no kill Colorado as one of the sites to look at.
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah. And then the restrictions or regulations that are in place for breeders versus for rescues and shelters. That was a part I had um a question about. if we Can we start with that one? Yeah, let's do it.
00:11:23
Speaker
um So I was reading the PECFA regulations, and it looks like that that it does relate to breeders, but that not every element of those regulations relates. So is that kind of what you were talking about, Stephanie, with the differences between like what shelters have to follow and what breeders have to follow?
00:11:46
Speaker
Right. Exactly. That breeders who have, i think it's over certain amount of dogs that they have on their site are regulated, but a lot of the breeders, like anyone could just breed their dog and sell puppies online. There's no real restrictions legally or anything like that.
00:12:10
Speaker
Unless you are specifically operating full functioning breeding facility that breeds multiple dogs. And I think, I can't remember the exact number of dogs that you would be breeding, then PASPA can get involved with that. But yeah, a lot of people, you know, they just get couple of dogs and breed them and breed them and breed them. And there's no regulation on how many times you can breed that dog. you know, how many, how many litters that puppy or that dog can have, things like that.
00:12:43
Speaker
And that's how you get dogs that are just bred over and over again to the point where they're sick or have issues with mammary gland tumors and, um, or they're, have prolapsed uteruses and things like that from having so many puppies.
00:13:03
Speaker
And that's the real sad, dangerous part that there isn't any really restrictions or laws around that I'm aware of anyways. Do people get around it by, okay, so because what I wrote down was that the breeders have to follow PACFA if there's more than 24 transfers per year or more than 15 dogs housed at a time in a central facility. but it sounds like then they might say, well, we're just breeding this dog over and over and over again. And so there might only be like the dog's puppies and that dog at any given time.
00:13:45
Speaker
And so it's less than 15. here Exactly. More than 24 transfers. But I imagine like the government's not going around looking to regulate somebody doing that. Exactly. Or to check on it. Cause I'm sure that so many, like,
00:14:01
Speaker
Is that also where the USDA, the U S department of agriculture is the one that's enforcing that, or does Colorado have their own department that's giving out license?
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah. So PASFA is the one that does all the licensing and they're like, I think they're like a subsidiary of the department of ag. They're kind of their own separate department, but related under them, i believe.
00:14:29
Speaker
And so, Yeah, they're the ones that do the licensing, but you know, anyone you can see on your next door or Facebook town, you know, things that there's people that have puppies available, you know, and no one's checking in on those things. Nobody's making sure that they're living in great conditions or that they're making sure that they're getting their vaccines. Or a big thing is, you know, they passed the law several years ago for rescues and shelters that they have to, if they're going to adopt a puppy out, it has to be fixed first. So it has to be spayed or neutered, which I think is good.
00:15:07
Speaker
it is good. However, some animals need, ah so like especially big dogs, when they get fixed within the first three months of life that really affects their bone density and the way that they are able to grow into those bodies. So, cause they're not getting the hormones and the things like that, that help with that growth period.
00:15:32
Speaker
So there are some medical reasons why not to spay and neuter a dog super early in life. And so that makes it complicated. So rescues and shelters are required to do this, but breeders are not required to do that. And so if you have,
00:15:50
Speaker
people who are breeding dogs, selling puppies then, and not really caring where those puppies go. They go to somebody who then might breed that dog for more puppies to sell puppies. You know what i mean? So it's like, you're just perpetuating constant breeding of dogs that you don't know who's getting these dogs, what their intentions are, if they're dumping them, if they're just, you know, sending them to the shelter and and, And the other thing is is that a lot of most shelters, rescues, once they adopt a dog out, they get their if someone needs to return their dog, they take their dogs back. yeah they always That was one thing. If somebody needed to return one of our dogs, we always would take it back.
00:16:36
Speaker
Breeders don't typically do that. They would say, now it's the shelter's problem. Take the dog to the shelter, and now the shelter has to deal with this dog. So there's a lot of things around that that make it kind of complicated.
00:16:50
Speaker
what's, what are your recommendations for like legislation that you think is needed on a broader scale? Well, I definitely think that we shouldn't allow just selling of dogs on sites like Facebook or Craigslist or next door. Like, I don't think it's okay that anyone can, this is a life, you know what I mean? And we have such a huge overpopulation of animals.
00:17:16
Speaker
I just don't think that that should be legal for anyone to be able to sell a dog to anyone on the internet. I think it does need to be regulated. So it does need to be done by a certified breeder, someone who is beholden to these laws, to regular inspections and making sure that the animals are healthy, that they live in a safe environment, that they have been vaccinated and that they have been spayed or neutered and making sure that all everyone is held to these same standards. If you're going to
00:17:51
Speaker
be responsible for placing a dog in a home or selling a dog, then you need to be, there needs to be some regulation on that. And I think that alone would make a big difference to make sure of that people aren't just breeding dogs in their home and selling them to whoever and not knowing where that dog's going or what kind of conditions that dog's going into. and Or people are, I know a lot of people who say, well, went to this person that was breeding dogs and I went and it was horrific what I saw. and so I had to buy the dog from them because I just couldn't leave the dog in that state.
00:18:28
Speaker
And it's like, I understand that because I would be the same, but also you're keeping the cycle going. you know, you're buying the dog from the person who is then going to use that money to continue to breed dogs in these horrific conditions.
00:18:44
Speaker
So what needs to be done is you need to be able to turn that person in and say, this person is breeding dogs in a safe, harmful, they're not healthy, you know, environment and, and the law needs to be able to step in and you make sure that that doesn't continue.
00:19:00
Speaker
So I think that's a big thing that needs to be done. I did read that there is congressional animal protection caucus. So one of the calls to action that I saw on a website was, you know, ask your U S rep to join this.
00:19:18
Speaker
It, It's so generic though, like what they're trying to do, you know, even trying just reading their mission. It's like, the goal is to build broad coalitions in support of common sense, humane animal welfare laws. And it's like, okay, but who's enforcing that? Because also looking at it, and I'm going to use puppy mills. I know breeders are, can be different than puppy mills, but Puppy mills are really where the big problems are, at least the known ones. And so in 2021, there were 10,000 puppy mills in America.
00:20:03
Speaker
And 2.6 million puppies were sold each year from puppy mills. So that's a huge amount.
00:20:14
Speaker
coming out and being sold, which then means that's a big moneymaker. And of course, they also said of those 10,000 puppy mills, 3,000 of them, I think, or less were actually federally licensed. So to your point, Stephanie, so many that are just working um and not licensed because who's going to do that work to find them, enforce it?
00:20:45
Speaker
And then they also said that even when people, so the USDA says that they go and inspect them once a year. Okay. But A, they know you're coming. And do you really go check on them every year?
00:21:00
Speaker
Maybe, maybe not. That's not the only thing they're doing. They're checking zoos, they're checking circuses. So they have like a lot on their plate. So just like any government agency that is supposed to do a lot of things. It's like things fall through the cracks. um And so they said that basically the the standards that they have are so minimal
Puppy Mills and Legislative Efforts
00:21:21
Speaker
anyways. It's like, so, okay, cool. Have the dogs be alive. And if they're not, then they're not.
00:21:29
Speaker
That's what I was just going to say. in The standards for what is healthy living for an animal is so low. No requirement to get exercise or have human interaction on a regular basis. No requirement on, ah no limit on the number of, the highest number of dogs that they can have.
00:21:48
Speaker
They are allowed to be kept in stacked cages with wire flooring. So there little paws on the wire. And the requirements for the size is that it only has to be six inches larger than their body, not including their tails.
00:22:05
Speaker
So it's like, okay, cool. That's how minimal the standards are. And then if they break one of these requirements or like, you know, have a, what is that even called? Like a infraction of some sort.
00:22:23
Speaker
They often don't shut them down, find them. It's kind of just like a slap on the wrist and that's it. And then the,
00:22:34
Speaker
Number one of the number one, maybe number one um states that has the highest number of puppy mills, Missouri.
00:22:46
Speaker
okay And so because the state standards are even lower than the federal standards and they can like have their own additional kind of laws or whatever, bad breeders tend to flock to states with either really lacks laws or really poor enforcement. And when I was trying to find information about this topic, everything kept bringing me back to Missouri, partially because it's where I'm located. So, it you know, thinks you want local stuff, but I think also partially because it's awful and I couldn't find anything that was like, what are, what are the requirements? What are the requirements?
00:23:29
Speaker
I think this is maybe your mission. It's gotta be, gotta be your, oh God, I'm not the right person for the job, but there, there've gotta be some groups locally that are doing some, doing something I'm sure. but Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah. If you're interested a little bit more, I don't know if you came across this website while you were looking at things, there's an organization called bailing out Benji and they,
00:23:59
Speaker
are fully dedicated to ending puppy mulls. And so I know they work in Iowa a lot, but they may do some in Missouri as well.
00:24:12
Speaker
So that's something that you are interested in getting a lot more information and how you can help their good organization to look up. Great. I will check that out. I also ran across I love that they have cute names because again, it helps, but Goldies Act, and this was a federal bill that was introduced after a golden retriever in Iowa that the federal agents had come or USDA had come inspected. They knew that this was a problem.
00:24:44
Speaker
They did nothing about it and the dog died. So this act is to hold the USDA accountable for doing its job. Like that's what it says, which again, it's like, well what is its job?
00:24:58
Speaker
What do you do? And it hasn't yet passed. It's just a bummer. Wow. and And for them to do their jobs. Yeah. Holding them accountable, which I mean, is really a problem all around that they're just beyond. um yes But quickly, just going back to the money thing. So this I listened to a podcast, which it is now defunct, and I would not recommend it necessarily, but it's called Fairy Tail Rescue. So I was like, oh, fairy godmother, you know. um And they're based in California.
00:25:41
Speaker
And they did some research and said, okay, so you think about 2.6 million puppies sold each year. and then a million dogs killed in shelters each year.
00:25:54
Speaker
So the supply demand doesn't totally add up. Like we don't really need that many new dogs. And that if they could just put some additional restrictions on it, then there wouldn't be this issue of shelters.
00:26:12
Speaker
And that's, those those are dogs that were not adopted out. So there's still plenty of dogs that aren't killed in shelters.
00:26:23
Speaker
And so it just, it really does come back to the business of breeding dogs. Yep. And I, there's an organization here in Colorado, think it's called Harley's Hope, but they, I went to an event that they did and and they deal specifically with puppy mill dogs.
00:26:43
Speaker
And they said, and I don't know if this is true, but I trust them to know that it is true. She said that if we were to eliminate puppy mills in this country, we would cut down the amount of dogs killed in shelters by 75%. And I'm like, 75%. That's insane. That's almost all, you know? And probably the only reason that it's not 100% is because 25% of those, it's because they have some kind of illness that's beyond...
00:27:15
Speaker
you know, it's the humane thing to do to recognize them. Yeah. Pretty close. Yeah. What are the reasons that people are buying from puppy mills is usually like, I want a particular breed. I want a dog who looks just like this. i' want a dog who's hypoallergenic.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah. I think a lot of it is that like designer dogs, which I have one. And I always say it's just a fancy mutt that I paid way too much for. I think a lot of it is that. And then also this idea that, oh, i it reminds me of adoption of children. You know, it's like, no, i want a kid that i know all the damage that has been done to it. I'm starting with a blank slate. I'm not inheriting unknown factors.
00:28:08
Speaker
Which is so not the case most of the time. I know a lot of dogs who have been with the owner since they were brand new and still have behavioral issues and things that come up, you know, so you can never guarantee just because you got a dog from the time it was six ah ah weeks old, that that dog is not going to have any behavioral issues or health issues. And a lot of times those dogs, you know, the mother has been bred so often they do have a lot of health issues.
00:28:42
Speaker
And the other thing that puppy mills, they often sell their dogs to pet stores. So that's another thing that is a huge issue. And I know here in Colorado, I believe a lot of cities have outlawed pet stores that they actually have to, that they're no longer allowed. yeah.
00:29:05
Speaker
a lot of the puppy mills, they sell those dogs to pet stores. And so when people buy go to the pet store and say, oh, look at a brand new golden doodle or whatever, you know. So that's where a lot of them go to, unfortunately.
00:29:20
Speaker
So it's not even buying directly from the puppy mill. It's, you know, we have this, you go from this gross puppy mill to this beautiful store where all these dogs are there. and And so people don't feel so bad about buying the dog from the lovely pet store. And they see, you know, they don't realize where that dog came from initially or what the mother looks like. Yes.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yes. That's what I was going to say. If you figure like, I know in humans, if your mother was, while carrying you, was depressed or in distress or whatever, like that impacts the child. So it's like, you think that you're you're getting this fresh puppy that didn't have any issues. Well, look at where it was born and kept for those first weeks. And and also just like with a child, they're gonna have qualities you never anticipated or things are gonna happen
Ethical Issues in Dog Breeding
00:30:15
Speaker
before. Like Stephanie, you were talking about your puppy where they developed a ah trauma response and that's just going to happen. That's part of life Like you can't have somebody go through life with nothing that affects them in a way that feels negative. And yeah, I don't know. The the aesthetic part too, I think is, is huge. Like we've got the dog shows and, um,
00:30:44
Speaker
and then like certain dog breeds that are really like become very popular and wasn't there a while where there was like one particular dog breed where they were getting stolen a lot because they were worth so much money i don't know if it's like a french bulldog or something was just gonna say french bulldog yeah yeah and we've even had within the rescue community which is often reminds me the wrong way but I think there was, there was a case a few years ago where this lady was arrested because she like 50 French bulldogs, something like that. It may not have been that quite that many, but she had so many in her house and, um, they were all, you know, confiscated and brought to a rescue.
00:31:33
Speaker
And the rescue was adopting these dogs out for like a thousand dollars because they knew they could get that much money for those dogs. And I'm like, that's so unethical to me. These dogs just need good homes. They don't, you know, going to up your price just because of the breed you're perpetuating that, that this dog is worth more than any other dog that you have, you know? so yeah, that's like,
00:32:00
Speaker
Yes, exactly. it's It's that mentality. And when you continue that mentality that this dog is worth more because of the way it looks, that's a terrible way to do things.
00:32:11
Speaker
Is it true? i learned once upon a time that French Bulldogs can't even be born vaginally. Like they all have to be born cesarean because their heads are the way that they've been bred are too big to actually fit through their mama.
00:32:29
Speaker
I've heard that. I don't know if that is true, but I have heard that, yes. I'll fact check it. Fact check it. I think that is so interesting. Like the, what you're saying is kind of like about looking at what are the root causes of the issues and then not perpetuating those stories, like the story that certain types of dogs are better than others, certain like breeds and certain ways of getting dogs.
Changing Pet Adoption Narratives
00:33:03
Speaker
Cause I think there might be some people who are like, i don't want to,
00:33:06
Speaker
get a dog at a shelter, like for that, the reasons that were mentioned before, but that we're just not looking enough at changing those narratives versus like just putting patches on things like, like legislation's important, but it maybe needs to come along with changing the story of how we have pets and dogs and I mean, this is not even getting into should we have pets. That's a whole other thing that's too big to change right now.
00:33:41
Speaker
so Yeah, that's such a good point. The change needs to start within each of us. And I do feel like there are some even social media accounts that have helped with that where they like, featured quote unquote ugly dogs that people just like absolutely fall in love with, you know, like their crazy tongues are sticking out and they like have one eyeball and which kind of helps make ugly quote unquote dogs cool. But yeah, that it's an almost an internal known or unknown bias about that. that ah It's just like everything else. it It represents something to us. And why do we want a certain car or a certain bag, or, you know, what are those things that matter to you as a status symbol or a preference? And again, it's a living thing. So shouldn't we think about it differently than an accessory?
00:34:39
Speaker
i think we've come a long way, you know, even in the past 13 years that I've been doing this, it it seems like there's a lot more awareness. And I think Even things like the puppy bowl, you know, really focuses on rescue adopting dogs. So I think we're getting there. i think a lot more people are aware than were 20 years ago about making sure to adopt.
00:35:06
Speaker
But I also think rescues often And I thought a lot about your situation where you talked, Patty, where you talked about how you wanted to adopt a dog, but you just found it extremely difficult. And i think rescues don't do themselves any favors. They don't do the dogs a lot of favors when they have such strict, I get why they have some strict regulations, but I think in a lot of ways, we just need to be more diligent in making sure that we're not turning somebody down that would be a great dog parent just because of their living situation or certain things you know that we have in our mind that automatically disqualifies them as a good pet parent.
00:35:54
Speaker
So think we need to do both. We need to both give a lot more, get the word out about adoption and why adoption is great, but also backing that up with being willing to adopt to people who may not have the cookie cutter life that we have pictured for the dogs, you know, because I've always known that people who live in apartments walk their dogs significantly more than people who have dogs in yards. So that's a good thing. You know, the dogs get out for walks a lot more than people who live in homes with yards because they think, oh, the dog just goes out in the yard and then walks around and snips around. They don't need to go for a walk.
00:36:36
Speaker
not true so think the only time that we ever really put a stipulation on part people in an apartment owning a dog was when we had dogs like pit bulls or dogs that can off like if you had to move to a different apartment you may not be able to find another apartment that's going to take that dog right because of its breed unfortunately so that was the only time where we were really like no to apartment you know you want to make sure you own your home so then if you do have to move you are able to find some place that would take the dog
00:37:09
Speaker
That was a good point about the walking too, because when we moved from an apartment to a house, I think Janine was just confused because she was getting like half the number of walks that she was getting before.
00:37:24
Speaker
yeah yeah She got a whole yard, but still. It's like, I love the yard and it's just the same all the time. Exactly.
00:37:39
Speaker
And I think she sees it as like her job, you know, like she goes out to her post where she can watch like where the the driveway is, make sure nobody comes, you know, keep the squirrels out. It's like, this is my work day.
00:37:52
Speaker
This is not the same as a walk. Did you have anything else, Charlotte? Well, what about the no-kill shelters? Okay.
00:38:03
Speaker
because Thank you. ah I'm wondering about that because it seems like it's a big debate. Like, I looked it up and it and there was just a lot of stuff on it.
00:38:14
Speaker
And I could see multiple sides being, you know, accurate. So, yeah. You want to tell us about that a little bit, Stephanie?
No-Kill Shelters Debate
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a very heated and controversial issue.
00:38:30
Speaker
Um, you know, what determines that a shelter is no kill, you know, most the time when you think no kill, i would say that you think this shelter does not euthanize for space, meaning that when they're full, they continue to find place to put the dogs so that they're not just euthanizing a dog because they don't have anywhere to put it.
00:38:55
Speaker
And I know that a lot of shelters that say they're no kill do it with kind of a caveat of like, we're no kill unless we get to this point and then we will euthanize for space if we have to.
00:39:09
Speaker
So it kind of, there's a gray space there. You know, there are several shelters in Colorado that are true no kill. So the only time that they actually do ever put a dog down is if it's a dangerous dog being determined to be dangerous. Like this dog is not going to be able to be placed in a home ever.
00:39:34
Speaker
or if the dog is to a point of health where they're just not going to be able to recover or be helped in any way. think problems that come up with that are a lot of people saying that then we're just warehousing dogs basically that these dogs are just living in kennels for long long periods of time and that's also not a healthy situation you know for the dog itself and so where where do we draw the la between were just storing dogs and warehouses and kennels
00:40:14
Speaker
not euthanizing them, but are they really living a life and hoping that someday maybe they'll be adopted as opposed to being realistic and saying this dog is probably not going to get adopted. So we're going to euthanize them in hopes to make room for another dog that is more adoptable.
00:40:34
Speaker
So it's a really complicated issue. And And like you, it's like, I don't know where I stand. And so I see both sides. So it is a hard one to really know what is the, you know, what's best.
00:40:48
Speaker
When I was reading about it, um i read about it on the Humane Society website. And I liked their perspective a lot. They gave the history around it. And Humane Society is not a no kill, but they said, there's no good, there's no bad. It's just that each shelter has to make their own decision.
00:41:08
Speaker
But they mentioned that the whole idea of no kill started really as a marketing movement, like a marketing campaign almost. There was a lot of, there was an overwhelming number of healthy animals that were being euthanized in shelters across the United States. So in the 80s and 90s, they came up with this idea of a no kill campaign. And they were asking for a commitment from communities that were helping, you know, shelters, rescues to take proper measures to save all healthy and treatable pets.
00:41:42
Speaker
So the definition of it is that you have to have at least a 90% placement rate for the animals in your care. As you said, Stephanie, it does not equal no euthanasia, severe illness or behavior issues.
00:41:56
Speaker
And The part that they said that is in conjunction, you know, has to be considered in conjunction with this is also whether or not you're an open versus limited admission.
00:42:06
Speaker
So human humane society is an open admission. They will never, anybody, any animal that comes across their threshold will not be turned away. Whereas if you are a limited and you can say, no we're not accepting that dog that has these behavior issues, it's a lot easier to get your 90% rate up to be defined a no kill. Whereas then the Humane Society, again, they said for each shelter and rescue, they have to make those decisions themselves. There's nothing good. There's nothing bad. You know, there's not one that's better.
00:42:40
Speaker
um But they feel like it's much more important for them to not turn away animals versus be able to define themselves as a no kill. And there's also no organization or governing body that determines no kill. So it's kind of like when you purchase organic or all natural foods, it's like anybody can throw that sticker So it appeals to the public, but what does it really um mean?
00:43:13
Speaker
And they said that the actual number of placed animals should be celebrated versus focusing on the, just the percentage. Yeah. and I think you can see it in, um, Los Angeles is a real, um, cause Los Angeles does tout themselves as a no kill shelter system.
Shelter and Rescue Dynamics
00:43:33
Speaker
And yet they are methanizing hundreds and hundreds of dogs, um, every day And so it is it's just, it's a lot of it is just like, we're going to put this label on us and make it sound real good.
00:43:49
Speaker
And yet what we're actually doing is not in reality. any of what people think no kill when they hear that term. They think, oh, it's a no kill shelter. i'm going to take my dog there because they won't kill my dog.
00:44:03
Speaker
And that's not that's not the case. So doing a lot more research would be important when deciding like if you are needing to turn in a dog. Very complicated. And I think also here in Colorado specifically, kind of how we touched on last time about Colorado being such a dog mecca and so many, you have so many rescues and so many shelters. And I think one thing that is frustrated me throughout my time working in dog rescue is just The collaboration between shelters and rescues.
00:44:36
Speaker
I feel like there's a lot of opportunity for shelters when they have dogs that are maybe having some behavioral issues or that they are really low on space, but they have you know too many dogs.
00:44:50
Speaker
to be able to reach out to these rescues and say, Hey, can we work with you guys? We have this dog that needs um a foster, needs a little extra help. You know, could we possibly trim? Just building those relationships. And it seems like a lot of shelters are not willing to do that, which is unfortunate, I think, because I think it could really benefit a lot of the animals, you know, that need that little extra attention or just to get them out of the shelter in the first place. So yeah, I think It's a very deep, complicated issue. And I think if you are needing to relinquish a dog, doing some research on where you want to take that dog.
00:45:33
Speaker
I always tell people, hey, do you know anybody that needs a dog? Or do you have anyone, where should I take this dog? and I will give him a few examples of of good,
00:45:45
Speaker
rescue or shelters in the area. and there's some good ones and there's some not good ones. So really doing your research, I think is important. Do you have a sense of why some shelters wouldn't try to partner with rescue organizations?
00:46:01
Speaker
Yes. So so you a few years ago, it was really interesting. The Denver Dunn Friends League actually invited a bunch of rescue organizations and other shelters to a meeting and were like, oh, this is interesting. This has never happened before that we were aware of. and and And they were, they were trying to see if we could join forces to tackle a lot of the issues because I think there is power in multiple organizations coming together for certain things.
00:46:36
Speaker
And um while it was a great idea, i think a lot of why the shelters and the rescues have issues with each other came forth. For instance, so a lot of times if we adopt out a dog and a dog gets returned to a shelter, the shelter can scan their chip and that chip will come back to the rescue. So it'll automatically say, this dog belongs to this rescue.
00:47:02
Speaker
Well, a lot of times those shelters will not contact the rescues and say, hey, we have your dog here. Do you want to come pick it up? They won't. They'll just put that dog out on the adoption floor and adopt the dog back out to whomever. And that creates a huge amount of bitterness and anger towards those shelters that would do that because rescues put a lot of time, a lot of money into the dogs that they rescue through vetting, spay and neuter, foster homes. I mean, we could have dog in a foster home for six months to a year and how much money have we spent on this dog, you know, getting them prepared to get it home. they get returned to a shelter, that dog, you know, that person is just going to turn around and adopt that dog out to whomever.
00:47:47
Speaker
Like those are our dogs. And so, and the, and the, um, shelters were just like, it's not our problem, not our problem. That's your dog. And it's like, and like, why should we contact you? It's like, that's our dog. We've put in hundreds of hours of pain and suffering and loving on that dog. You know, we love those dogs just as much as the adopter loves those dogs.
00:48:12
Speaker
And to not contact us and say, our dog is here. we would love to, you know, we would love to put that dog back with their foster where they're safe and comfortable and are known. But instead, they put him in a cage out on the adoption floor. So there's there's a lot of things like that that go on as to why they don't want to work together.
00:48:31
Speaker
So just for one example. Yeah, that seems like like a very simple kind of ask, actually, that would make things easier for
Volunteering and Supporting Rescues
00:48:42
Speaker
everybody. but Exactly. But I mean, maybe shelters have some sorts of ah barriers, but I don't i don't know. i mean, it just sounds like if you're... And some of them don't. Some of them do contest regularly. Some of them do. And especially if it's a dog that's problem or...
00:49:00
Speaker
have some behavioral issues, they're right on it. They're like, oh yeah, we'll just contact the rescue and get them back to them. But if it's a cute dog that just, you know, they think, oh, we can adopt this dog out right away, don't even bother.
00:49:12
Speaker
But it's like you've already checked the tag to see who the if there's an owner. so you've already done half of the work of like... Right, exactly.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. So there's there's some things Interesting. Yeah.
00:49:31
Speaker
um Well, I know that, you know, we've already touched on a lot of accessibility topics because we like to talk talk about the accessibility of of like the interests that we're talking about.
00:49:44
Speaker
But yeah, we've talked about just like, you know, the accessibility of fostering and adopting dogs. But even just like learning more about this whole area, i felt like was very interesting.
00:50:01
Speaker
easy in a way in that there's a lot of information out there, a little bit hard in that there's so much and like differing views to like really get a sense of what's going on. It's helpful to have somebody who's been in it for as long as you have, Stephanie, to kind of help us figure out like what to pay attention to and what resources to go to.
00:50:25
Speaker
I did also find, obviously I shared to adopt wasn't super accessible for me at the time, but volunteering is really accessible and getting information was both accessible and not. I did find the one shelter animals count is a website that started like it's a data analysis and housing data. It started in 2011, so that was useful just to get some information, but again, it's only as good as the information that is provided to it, so you're missing things or whatever.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, kind of a ah mid on accessibility. i will say in terms of ah volunteering, I was glad to see that there are options, like i when I was looking at the Highway 50 Rescue Drive, or I keep forgetting Freedom Ride. Freedom Ride.
00:51:20
Speaker
that, um and again, i have to remind myself, 30 days waiting period before offering to volunteer for me. but But like, I would love to foster at some point, but probably unlikely with my senior dog right now, but that there's ways to if you have like a car to to drive dogs, or if you don't, you can help with like, once they get there to help with like, welcoming or or getting
00:51:53
Speaker
things that they need or getting donations from people that there's other types of ways to provide support that don't necessarily involve like housing a dog for weeks at a time.
00:52:06
Speaker
I always say if you can't foster, volunteer. If you can't volunteer, donate. If you can't donate, then share on social media. Share. That's a really easy way find a rescue that you like and share their dogs. You know, it's super simple, you know, and and those dogs get seen by many more people. So. And it's how you got to involved. So look at that. Yeah, exactly. Really. one Exactly.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah. And there's so many ways to volunteer. I even, I was looking at one just yesterday, they wanted someone that would do the home checks. So you would just, you know, when someone's going to adopt a dog, you just go to this person's home, make sure everything looks okay.
00:52:48
Speaker
And say, oh, yep, everything was turned out okay. And just how they, you know, said that met the people and they were nice and they seemed great and they seemed to know what were doing. So that's an easy way. And then you you just do that and And that's it.
00:53:01
Speaker
Or just like I said, screening applications or doing helping with events, fundraising and such. There's lots, so many ways that you can get plugged in for short volunteer stints other than having to actually take a dog in.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. And even just getting more knowledgeable about the whole thing and including some of the areas that need significant change like puppy mills I think would be helpful because there's a lot of like I barely knew anything about it except just kind of what you hear and absorb but knowing more than can also you know let other people know like, Hey, maybe, maybe that pet store is not the best place to, to get a dog. Maybe like do some research here and be able to help get like a more accurate word out.
00:53:59
Speaker
Exactly. And I always tell people to like, they come to me like, I'm looking for this kind of dog and go to pet finder, petfinder.com. You can put in what kind of dog, what age, how close by your house,
00:54:13
Speaker
And all the dogs from all of the rescues around your area have posted their dogs there. So it's a really good way to find just the exact type of dog that you're looking for that will come from a rescue.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:54:28
Speaker
It is just like Tinder for dogs, really. Just swipe and swipe. You'll actually get the results you want. Yes. Well, yeah. So thank you so much. laugh i Yeah, really appreciate having you on and talking about all of this.
00:54:48
Speaker
Patty, any sort of, ah what is it, at our our lowest score, ah level of integration scale? I am similar to you, Charlotte. I kept being like, i can I can definitely foster. I can definitely foster. And then I was like, no, you can't. No, you can't. so But I do want to get involved.
00:55:06
Speaker
in ways that don't require fostering. So my likeliness of or level of integrating it into my life is out of 100, probably, I would say right now, 75 and growing.
00:55:20
Speaker
How about you, Charlotte? Yeah, probably right now, I would say right now is 65. In 30 days, we're going to see how much it goes up.
00:55:32
Speaker
Is the market gone up or down? I got hold back a little. but We'll share links in the show notes as well for sources as well as ways to get involved.
00:55:46
Speaker
And stay interesting. And stay interested. may Thanks for listening to today's episode. Please subscribe, comment, and like the podcast. Follow us on Blue Sky Social at CanWeInterestYouIn. Send us an email at CanWeInterestYouIn gmail.com. And join us next time.