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18- Can Margot Interest You In...Protest?
18 Plays8 days ago
Let's get into some good trouble!!
Charlotte and her friend Margot Holmes show up to record at the library dressed for the occasion to talk about...Protest. How timely, but when isn't it, really?
After working with a population of "troubled" teens in a residential setting, Margot learned about the systemic racism at play at the policy and organizational level in her grad school experiences. Seeing how these things were so deeply connected led Margot to HAVE to speak out.
Some topics covered include: the importance of tension and joy in protest, Black Lives Matter (BLM), Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Heather Cox Richardson, different types of protesting based on your time, energy, and skills, TABOR Amendment, Acts of Beauty and Defiance, Project 2025, capitalism, boycotting, building community.
And of course- the homework!
- Charlotte to find a way to protest with her writing
- Patti to get signed up with Indivisible and find a way to be an buddy/ally
Check out Instagram and Bluesky to see photos of the great t-shirts, Margot's sign, and beautiful guide dog Jennifer.
How are you protesting? Share with us on social, leave a comment. This is an exception to Charlotte's pet peeve, we're not baiting you...I swear!
Logo design: Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: CanWeInterestYouIn.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
You know that thing you love that your friends and family don't want to hear about anymore? Tell it to us, Patty and Charlotte. We want to learn all about your weird and wild obsessions or your perfectly normal hobbies that you've taken just a little too far.
00:00:15
Speaker
We want to dabble in your curious interests. Can we interest you in today's episode?
Introduction to Margot Holmes and Guide Dog
00:00:34
Speaker
Hey, Patty. Hey, Charlotte. I want to introduce you to my friend Margot Holmes, who is here ah with us, along with Jennifer, who is her service dog, seeing eye dog. My guide dog. Guide dog. That's the term.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah. And Jennifer's so cute. I love that she looked up when you said her name, but looked straight at Margot. Yes. Mm-hmm. It's like, do you have any treats for me? Because that's really why I'm here today.
Charlotte and the Power of Slogans
00:01:08
Speaker
Let me get a little closer. She heard the word treat.
00:01:14
Speaker
yeah um Later, later. Sorry I mentioned you. You shouldn't have said anything. It's very nice to meet you, Patty. You too, Margot. I've heard so much about you over the years.
00:01:26
Speaker
you too. So it's nice to virtually meet. Yeah, yeah. Wait, so Charlotte, i went I want you to tell me about your shirt. Oh, yes.
00:01:38
Speaker
So I'm wearing a shirt that says, ban the fascists, save the books, and it has a book and like a rainbow on it. Oh, it's so cool.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yes, thank you. And when we came into the library today to record, one of the people working at the library had a shirt that said the same thing, but with like a little cartoon book on it, which was...
Margot's Protest Fashion
00:02:01
Speaker
we were very excited to be in the shirts. It's commonality, right? In the face of all the crazy stuff that's currently happening in our world, it's nice to know that you have some commonality with folks. Especially the library.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah. Margot's also wearing a shirt that says something. I love doing the John Lewis getting into good trouble quote.
00:02:31
Speaker
ah today because I feel like this that's what this is today. is We're getting into good trouble.
Margot's Journey into Activism
00:02:36
Speaker
Tell us what your interest is. so My interest is protest and how we can do all the things to say the things that we're wanting to say today that we feel like we don't have a voice saying. o Perfect timing.
00:02:53
Speaker
yeah um I think it's gotten progressively more so. I got interested in in it in 2020, 2019, you know, with George Floyd and coming into graduate school and learning about systemic racism and the ways that the work that I had done up until then was impacted by all of those things.
00:03:20
Speaker
So I worked residential for 10 years. I'm a therapist now, but I worked residential with teenagers for 15 years probably before. What does residential mean? So it means that you're, ah when kids get into trouble and they're in ah trouble enough over enough period of time that it is to determined that they are out of control of their parents,
00:03:45
Speaker
ability to parent them, um often they will go to residential treatment to to ideally get some therapy around anger management, drug and alcohol treatment, managing difficulty with authority, those types of things.
00:04:02
Speaker
okay And so usually they're involved in the criminal justice system and they they come to us because they're ordered to do so, they're mandated. So it's kind of like an alternative to jail, perhaps, or exactly um or like hoping to get them away from the path that might lead them there.
00:04:24
Speaker
Exactly right. Yeah. More than not, it's on the back end. So they've had some problems. they've led to It's led to incarceration, which has led to residential treatment but being the best option for them so that they can get some help and rehabilitate.
00:04:40
Speaker
Okay. And so it's called residential because they live there. Okay. For whatever amount of time. And then you were helping them as a therapist or what was your role?
00:04:51
Speaker
So in that time, I was not a therapist yet. I was, you know, I had an English lit degree and I put that to work by way of um learning how to be a mental health professional.
00:05:06
Speaker
Right. So I'm on the floor with 17, 15, 13 to year old kids first, and then fifteen to eighteen over over the period of time that I worked in the field. But um yeah, just helping them and and going to grad school after my impressions of what that was 15 years.
00:05:30
Speaker
totally turned everything on its head because I realized that so much of that system is is fish in a barrel, right? You've got kids living in a in two or three different communities and in Denver and the surrounding area who seem to always be the kids that get put into residential treatment. Imagine that, right?
00:05:52
Speaker
And it really changed the It made me realize, like, I i felt compelled to protest and help change that because of the work that I did over those years of time.
00:06:06
Speaker
Where would those kids' lives have been had they not been put in residential treatment and taken away?
Involvement with Disability Community and Colorado People's Action
00:06:12
Speaker
in some cases taken away from parents who were, you know, also caught up in that system because they were, a cra you know, fish in a barrel as well, because you live in a certain area, there exponentially more police officers. Yeah. Your likelihood of getting caught up is going to be bigger.
00:06:33
Speaker
Right. And if you look a certain way or you're hanging out in certain areas, then that's increased too. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So that's what brought me into sort of learning...
00:06:46
Speaker
and all the different ways of protest. And people laugh because I lost vision in 2014. So I've not been a member of the disability community for a very long time, but that was not what brought me into it.
00:07:01
Speaker
I realized years later when I was doing organizing with Colorado People's Action that the disability community has a huge history with protest and making huge change policy changes stick in our legislation.
00:07:20
Speaker
So um that's kind of my ask for today is, yeah, I invite everybody to come on out and protest on whatever it is that you think matters to you.
00:07:32
Speaker
Because if we don't say it, closed mouths don't get fed. Right, and the longer you don't say it, the conditions get worse to the point where you then cannot say it.
00:07:45
Speaker
um So you said that was when you kind of learn about learned about all the different ways of protest. So two questions there. Did you have somebody that was kind of your mentor or how did you learn about this? And then what are the different ways of protest?
Understanding Policy with Mentor Keith Singer
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah. So I had a really, really good second year supervisor with my master's in social work at DU. His name was Keith Singer, and he worked at Family Tree House of Hope, which was a women's shelter that works with women and children experiencing homelessness.
00:08:28
Speaker
And so I worked there for um No, it wasn't my second year, was my first year, excuse me, um first year of my of my ah grad school. and it was...
00:08:43
Speaker
it was a really interesting thing because I came in and he's like, you have about 10 years on me as far as experience in this field. So I'm feeling intimidated about what I can show you. And I was like, well, ah you know, it's all the work and I'm learning how to do it all in a different way now than I was doing it before.
00:09:03
Speaker
So it's fine. And he's like, no, I think we really need to like step it up a little bit and get you some experience with like the, inner workings of how how the business itself, not the business, but the organization runs, right? How do we from a policy level, from a you know organizational level, how do we serve women and children experiencing homelessness?
00:09:30
Speaker
So I was sitting in on housing meetings that were going on with with the commissioners of Aurora and Arapaho County. I was listening to them talk about the problems of homelessness and the problems of ah economic drivers and things that were happening that that were making it difficult.
Macro and Micro-Level Protest Understanding
00:09:53
Speaker
So he basically zoomed me out to the policy you to the macro level, and I was just like, Once again, my mind was blown and I'm like,
00:10:06
Speaker
Because I was at the ultra granular, like doing restraints and running across, you know, the entire campus of Devereaux, Colorado, chasing kids so that they didn't get lost in the community without, you know we're supposed to be making sure they're safe. I went from that level yeah to now we're at a policy level. We're meeting, you know, housing commissioners and, know,
00:10:33
Speaker
community boards and things like that to try to figure out how do we get people resources that they need. From that, eventually I ended up also joining Colorado People's Action and with that supervisor because we just were both trying to figure out a good place to kind of draw you know work on all the things that I was learning in school about systemic racism and the way that that plays out in Colorado.
00:11:09
Speaker
Hmm. I was going to say like your, your time doing at the like micro level is so incredibly valuable because I'm sure so many of the people at the macro level that are making these decisions or having these conversations, it's like, maybe it's been a long time since they've been there, or maybe they've never been there. So it's like, you're making decisions for people that you don't even know, or in situation about situations that you don't understand. and and things like that.
00:11:39
Speaker
Absolutely.
Navigating Protests with Visual Impairment
00:11:41
Speaker
And from that, I think, you know, yeah, so this is where then it got into, okay, I can go to these protests, right? I can go and fight for policy because the first thing that we notice is that they're there are these big crowds of people that are heading down to the Capitol and they're in these big groups of people. And that feels a little uncomfortable in some ways. I'm not going to lie. I'm ahm visually impaired. And in some ways that is a way different animal than it would have been when I was chasing kids across the lawn Devereaux trying to make sure that
00:12:21
Speaker
that they weren't leaving campus, right? I could i can do things in it in a lot of different ways, but you know dodging and weaving protest riot, pepper balls, you all the stuff that goes along with protesting when it gets rough is not something I'm going to be really good at, right? And Jennifer doesn't like it at all. I'll be honest. She's she's not into it.
00:12:50
Speaker
So see what I had to do was kind of figure out what are other ways. And that's where Colorado people's action. Yes, they were involved in some of that, but they were also going down to policy days on the Hill. They were down, they were up at the Capitol, like talking about legislation that they want, that we had agreed upon passing. We were also doing sort of vetting you different council people and I chose Arapahoe County even though I live in Denver because I work in Arapahoe County and Arapahoe County is the most diverse county in Colorado so it has the capacity to impact systemic racism in Colorado if we were able to get
00:13:45
Speaker
the things done that we were trying to get done. So it's finding the right people. I met endorsed Jason Crow. I met and endorsed some of the big folks that are that are in.
00:13:59
Speaker
Brittany Patterson is another one that we worked with. Can you tell us who they are for anybody who's not in Colorado or... known So Jason Crow is our, one of our representatives in Washington for he's the house.
00:14:15
Speaker
I think he's either in the house representative. He's in Congress. Yeah. He's a house representative. And I think Brittany Pedersen is too. She used to be my representative. And then I moved to Gabe Evans district and I call him a lot and I harass him.
00:14:27
Speaker
Good for you. I leave him rude messages. i haven't done in a little while, but I got to get back. Whole generations of, of him need to be harassed. um on a regular basis. Yeah, this is a very side note, but apparently his wife writes these like romance novels that are kind of racist a little.
00:14:48
Speaker
And where he's like the, you know, the the main love interest is loosely based on him. At least one of them. I read like a review of it.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and he, you, I do believe, it's my understanding that he is actually descended from Evans that pillaged the village at Sand Creek.
00:15:14
Speaker
oh i Oh, wow. So, fun, fun. yeah Hence why we were changing Mount Evans to Mount Blue Sky.
Protest Methods and Accessibility
00:15:26
Speaker
I do believe he's descendant. Goodness. He also bought to bring back Stapleton instead of changing it because Stapleton was also a KKK member.
00:15:38
Speaker
See, this is part, this is what happens and maybe you could speak to this too. Like calling him feels absolutely hopeless and absolutely like just calling out into like a valley. Yeah, a piss.
00:15:55
Speaker
So sometimes I think with protesting, it may or may not feel like that. I think that when when you actually get out into a protest, like a physical protest, it feels good because you have all the people around you and you realize you're not alone in the things you've been thinking. And then even with like this t-shirt and I saw the, you know, the person at the library and we had the same shirt. It was like, yay, somebody else cares.
00:16:19
Speaker
i I had somebody, i i have coffee with my dad every weekend, every Saturday. This is one of my other, i see this as protest. I do. I see this as protest. My dad came into having these coffees with me when I started grad school. We've been doing it since my daughter was born. She's now 18 and going to college.
00:16:40
Speaker
But the two years I was in grad school, my dad's love was immense for me because he sat and listened to me you for four hours about how wrong everything was and systemic, or I didn't know and all these things. And my dad was like, what is, what are you talking about?
00:17:04
Speaker
Systemic racism. Are you sure? And I would bring in statistics and took me about three years to get my dad finally,
00:17:17
Speaker
like getting it. He, because he was very, pretty moderate, still probably would call himself a pretty moderate Republican, but he's like, well, I didn't know that all that was happening or that was, this is not about racism.
00:17:33
Speaker
And you'd be surprised, like even my, even the, the guy that I said was my, my great, uh, mentor in all of this, he would, I came to him and I'm like, this is rooted in racism. And he's like, well, I think that's a little heavy handed. And I'm like, it's not, it's not because this was before it really became very blatant.
00:17:57
Speaker
Right. And became very apparent that that's what is happening right now is, you know, and we've gone from that to fascism. So now it's not even about racism anymore. It's about, you know, we're going to pick off little by little ah pretty much everybody but rich people.
00:18:14
Speaker
Well, and using the words like, oh, sorry, Charlotte, go ahead. I was just saying very rich, like billionaire and above. I mean, you know, if you're rich, you're you're still pretty well off. But you're going to be all right.
00:18:26
Speaker
You're going to all right. But like who's benefiting really safe if you have a billion or more.
00:18:34
Speaker
And to use words like racism made your dad uncomfortable and your mentor uncomfortable. I'm assuming that they're both white. It makes white people very uncomfortable, you know, and it's always like, you know, there was always like, yeah it's don't use the race card and blah, blah, blah. And to use the word fascism makes people very uncomfortable too.
00:18:55
Speaker
And it's just so interesting that it's like, yes, they make us uncomfortable for a reason, but that doesn't make it not so, you know? And so I agree with you that, especially with your dad doing that work in a way that also, yeah, every week, like to to kind of um enlighten him, you know, as you were learning about it too, but in a way that's also not,
00:19:23
Speaker
calling him an idiot for not understanding or bad, you know, like, because even if not for your father, of course, but for other people, you know, like I have a friend who is MAGA and he said, one of the things that has been the biggest Further divide for him is when other friends say, how could you be such an idiot? You must be an idiot to think this, this, this, and this. And it's like, well, when you lead with that, I'm not going to listen to anything else you say, you know, like. I'm going to go running into the arms of the other people who absolutely believe what I believe. It pushes, it absolutely pushes.
00:20:04
Speaker
right It does. um And it don't get me wrong. We started with me going home from these coffees like. Yeah.
00:20:15
Speaker
And because I didn't know how to do it either. It takes because I think and I think when we talk about protest, when we talk about people that are coming to the protest for certain reasons. Right. Like we they want to get in trouble. They want to you know, pick a fight with police.
00:20:33
Speaker
No, but a lot of people don't know how to do it in a way that isn't that. Right. And it took me a while because I was thinking when I went to my first BLM, I was like, OK, let's go. Let's do this. Like and you can say the things and still pop a beach ball.
00:20:55
Speaker
Like, have fun, like, to be nice, be kind to people. Like, one of the best things I've seen recently is there was a group of older horn players, like, there was a tuba, there was a, ah like a trumpet and a trombone, and they they just were standing around, and then counter-protesters showed up, and they started yelling and doing their thing, and they just started playing horns. Yeah.
00:21:23
Speaker
Really good. Like, you know, the saints come marching in and eventually they started dancing and everybody was good. Like it was less mean and less hateful and more talking.
00:21:39
Speaker
Right. And I think that feels safer to everybody. Nobody wants to feel unsafe. I do think that there is a tension that has to occur, though, because we can all sit on the front lawn of the Capitol and protest and sing Kumaya, and nobody's going to care.
00:21:57
Speaker
There does have to be a buildup of tension to some extent. Like, hey, um I'm sitting in front of Gabe Edden's office with 50 people.
00:22:08
Speaker
And you know what? I'm sure the building's probably probably supposed to close soon. It's 530. Look at that. Coffee, anyone? Like, this is a that's tension. It's not aggressive, but it's tension.
00:22:26
Speaker
Mm-hmm. disrupting the regular flow of things, like to draw attention to something. yeah He doesn't go to his office here. He just stays in DC, but yeah if he did, okay And yeah. But somebody is in his office. Yeah, we did. we I did go to a protest that was in front of his office one time. And it was it was good because they were letting people up like kind of two at a time to go talk to his staffers, not him.
00:22:54
Speaker
And then people were along the sidewalks. and And I think that that that does create some disruption because it's like, oh, Do you want to pretend that everybody's supporting you and that you are representing us and what we want? How about we show the public that that is inaccurate? You're not representing many, many of the people in your district.
00:23:17
Speaker
You don't care about their rights. Yeah. Yeah. And I think about it and I'm like, yes, And I would want to argue that, like, does he get to determine how his constituents come to him? Or are we going to come two by two, but we're going to come in with it? but um Maybe it'll be five because maybe you can't make it two.
00:23:43
Speaker
you You don't get to decide that. You don't get to control it that way because this is. You are a servant of the people and the people want to talk to you in the way they want to talk to you.
00:23:55
Speaker
And unless there's police presence, like, are you really going to come and stop us? Is there a way for you to do that if we're being peaceful about it? We're not hurting anyone. We're just, yeah, you said two, we're going to break five. All right.
00:24:11
Speaker
Just because, right? And it's controlling the narrative is part of the way that this stuff just stays what it is. And we just allow, we're frogs in a pod, right? That's if they control how the narrative runs, then we we don't make progress. So you're saying push it little bit, a little bit, right?
00:24:32
Speaker
If you have a police line and all of a sudden everybody sits down Yeah, I'm blocking a street. I'm not hurting anybody. I'm not hurting anybody.
00:24:45
Speaker
You can come and arrest me if you want to. And if you do, you know, I'm going to put the 20-somethings at the front of that because you know I still can't see the pepper balls coming. And eventually they are ordered to do it.
00:25:00
Speaker
The police are ordered to disperse the group in whatever way they need to do that.
Historical Disability Protests
00:25:06
Speaker
Ideally, they're going to do it in a way that's going to be peaceful and they're just going to start arresting people and eventually everybody dissipates.
00:25:14
Speaker
But they might not. They might decide to do tear gas and you know pepper balls and bean bags. It's hard to know what's going to be the thing. And that's where not everybody does that.
00:25:27
Speaker
If I'm in Gabe Evans' office, I'm not going to get pepper balled. Yeah. Even if I'm one of five that was supposed to be one of you know two, no, they're gonna call security and they're gonna walk me out because I'm the the fourth person and they're only supposed to be two. And so I didn't do what I was supposed to do. So security is gonna walk me out.
00:25:52
Speaker
That's tension, right? Small tension. And one of the things that I think is, interesting is that, again, many years later, after starting with BLM and all of that, I learned about the history of disability um protesting for ADA and and the rights of people with disabilities with work and school and accommodations in a different way.
00:26:26
Speaker
Like I knew about the accommodations part of it. I knew about the act because I've had to use it for the majority of the time since 2014, since I lost vision, but I didn't know where it came from. i didn't realize there's such a huge history of real protest um here in Colorado too.
00:26:44
Speaker
so When ada legislation was coming to a vote in in Washington in what was it, 1990 was ADA.
00:26:58
Speaker
and ADA is American Disabilities Act, yeah? Correct, yep. And it helps with finding getting accommodations so that people with disabilities can do the same work as everybody else, because it's not about...
00:27:11
Speaker
most peopleility yeah most people's work, it's not about whether you can walk, you know, I'm a therapist. I being able to see isn't, is not the most important thing. Being able to listen and hear and talk.
00:27:26
Speaker
Those are important things, right?
Impact of Protests and Personal Stories
00:27:28
Speaker
Whether or not I can drive a car should not prevent me from being able to do that work. And the ADA has made it possible for me to do that.
00:27:38
Speaker
yeah Um, But when I looked back at the history of people with disabilities, one of the biggest things they did in protest was the Capitol crawl.
00:27:50
Speaker
They literally visual people in wheelchairs got out of their wheelchair chairs and crawled up the steps of the Capitol with their hands because they couldn't get, they could not access the Capitol. Oh wow.
00:28:03
Speaker
Because there was not a ramp for them to get to the Capitol. What a powerful visual right to make people think about.
00:28:14
Speaker
See it. Oh, okay. See it. And sure, that's the Capitol, but... And if American citizens don't have access because there's no ramp to the Capitol, there bathrooms that you can't use in the Capitol. There are, you know, it's...
00:28:36
Speaker
Does anybody think about it who isn't in a wheelchair? Well, probably not, but they are now. Right. And and it didn't take a police line and it didn't take thousands of people. It took like 50 people getting out of the wheelchairs and literally crawling up the steps.
00:28:55
Speaker
Wow. And we did it here too. We did with buses. We did not have except wheelchair accessible buses for the longest time. And so a bunch of people in wheelchairs would wait for that bus to stop and they would block the bus
00:29:16
Speaker
and block them in so that they couldn't go because if you can't take me too, then this is not, public this is not accessible for me. Right.
00:29:27
Speaker
Right. Just because I can't, you know, I can't, if I can't drive a car, who needs public transportation more than the person who can't drive the car. Right.
00:29:39
Speaker
And so who are the buses for? Right. And if it's public transportation, for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking about how and it's, it's about like,
00:29:53
Speaker
not complying even in like the simplest way i to make it less easy to go about the status quo.
00:30:05
Speaker
yeah Just impossible to, once you start to see that it's not working.
00:30:12
Speaker
And it makes, again, when you think about, um, ah Michael Brown protests where they were they were blocking off the ah highways and stopping people for a minute, right? And is that
00:30:35
Speaker
Is it aggressive? Yeah, it is because police don't love that very much. They don't like it. And the police departments don't want to be held hostage. Right. Bottom line is though, how that's tension.
00:30:47
Speaker
Right. And maybe it only happens for an hour in Ferguson. It happened for like hours and hours. They were there overnight. They were there like sitting on the highway.
00:30:59
Speaker
Protesters were. it,
00:31:03
Speaker
How does that help people?
00:31:07
Speaker
i don't know. i think it it at least puts visual awareness of what's happening, how many people are upset by things, how how much they're willing to put out there to make change.
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, and I remember when the riots were happening, um especially in Minneapolis after George Floyd's death, and people were so angry that people were rioting.
00:31:43
Speaker
and someone at the time said, you know, during the civil rights, it came up that, you know, yes, there was rioting, because if you don't listen to people for long enough, it's just like a child.
00:31:56
Speaker
If you don't listen to them or don't, you know, it escalates. And so, yes, there will be. you Are you going to pay attention to us now? Oh, OK.
00:32:07
Speaker
You know, and especially in a capitalist society. Oh, you care about us messing with. property over people, right? You care about this building more than you care about the the flesh and blood people who are sitting in this building or who are, that happened, what? and It was the last summer in ah Columbia, at Columbia University with the the Gaza protests.
00:32:36
Speaker
They took over a building that was also taken over in the 60s, right? And because of that, they have now been targeted by our lovely fascist president who wants to just shut things down. Right. You shut down education, then you
Community-Based Actions as Protest
00:32:54
Speaker
shut down. And it it's all really it's kind of scary because it does when we think about.
00:33:03
Speaker
there is a very clear way. I don't know, do either one of you know who Heather Cox Richardson is? yeah She's fantastic. And yeah the way she is sort of ushering in an awareness of, here's the checklist guys of all the things that lead to dictatorship and fascism and whatever else for autocracy essentially.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, and not just in our minds, but in history, like where it has happened. and And for anybody who doesn't know who she is, she's a historian who puts out a lot of, think, a substack and just information about our current moment in time and then how it relates to history. So check her out if you if you don't know her.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yep. And, I mean, we've checked them all off. We've done banning books. We've done education at our higher education is coming down.
00:34:02
Speaker
we have seen, ah you know, our police system, a shadow police system building. We see messing with our whole economic system and allowing for for, because if we have enough people who are struggling, they don't have time to protest.
00:34:24
Speaker
Right. If you're, working two jobs because you now can't survive with one, then you don't have time to fight the government that you have ruling you.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah. If you're emotionally exhausted because there's chaos all around, ah then you don't maybe even have the energy to think of anything or to think that there could be a different way of of living or being.
00:34:54
Speaker
I'm wondering about the different types of protests. Cause I think I've, one thing that i have heard and think about is that, you know, you want to find what's right for you and your certain set of skills and maybe
Encouragement to Find Personal Protest Methods
00:35:08
Speaker
like who you are. And then like, yeah, if you have two jobs and you don't have the time or the energy to, to do certain types of protests, like, are there other things you can do?
00:35:17
Speaker
Like, what are your thoughts about that? A hundred percent. There's always, there is always room. um best thing I think people can do is find an organization that you feel like is really speaks to the things that you are most concerned about.
00:35:33
Speaker
And then within that, find, they will, believe me, they will call you in. They will offer you many, many, many options on things you can do, whether it's driving someone somewhere. It can be like dropping people off at the you know, polls, souls to the polls type things.
00:35:51
Speaker
um If it is registering people to vote, if it is doing a call center, I did that all the way through um the election.
00:36:02
Speaker
election was it? I can't remember now. um The one with Warnock and Ossoff when they were first coming into office, I don't remember which election it was now. um But I was calling Georgia. i was calling from Colorado to Georgia. I was calling Georgia residents, making sure that they knew where to go and whether they were registered to vote, no matter what, what which direction they were going in.
00:36:28
Speaker
Just excited that you guys are doing your duty as as as a person in in Georgia, because it's going to matter, right? I think right now,
00:36:40
Speaker
there's a lot of things that we can do with making phone calls. I love that you're making phone calls to government. I love that you're, you're calling, especially here locally, but I also think calling about gerrymandering, calling about like, how do we uphold what's already law, right? How do we I know that I have a friend who's a lawyer.
00:37:03
Speaker
She's busy. She doesn't have time for a lot of things. She is working on you know getting the word out there to people who are have having immigration difficulties or who have loved ones who are having immigration and difficulties, making sure that there are little cards that and people can just hand out as these things are happening so that they have resources to contact who will help.
00:37:32
Speaker
So that's one way. And she has, she cannot go to protest. She has multiple things that are going on with her that are physical health problems that make it hard for her to get out and do that kind of work.
00:37:45
Speaker
But she can put together really pretty business cards that have cool things on them that will help people. And since she's a lawyer, she can she knows the legislation. She knows that she's pulling together coalitions of um lawyers who are helping with it.
00:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Just focusing on ah couple of areas or just one area that is of value and important to you and your skills.
00:38:16
Speaker
Because it's so hard because, you know, right now it's like there's so many different areas where there's flooding going on. And ah so it feels like, you and you know, I want to do everything and that's impossible. impossible Right. Which is one of the strategies, right. Is to be like a that it's like, you can't focus on this for too long because there's this next thing and this next thing and this next thing, but then also like, let's just get people exhausted or unable to organize or focus.
00:38:50
Speaker
And yeah, Absolutely. Right. Because which one, which one of the things on the list of fascist takeover is most important? Oh, they're all really important.
00:39:02
Speaker
Really, really important.
Organizing Community Events for Awareness
00:39:04
Speaker
um I do like the fact that also people are really watching for the next phases of project 2025. Like if we can get ahead of it, cause we've been behind it years,
00:39:19
Speaker
been golf It's been up for since the 70s, apparently, is when it started originally, Project 2025. So sort of been watching it grow ever since then, or someone has. i certainly wasn't until it was brought up initially right before this right before Trump was elected the second time.
00:39:41
Speaker
um I loved the fact that we've We, and we, Democrats or liberals or whatever, like liberal media was bringing it up with every single newscast that they were doing.
00:39:54
Speaker
And it was coming up and it was before the election. So how do we get ahead of whatever the next project 2025 is?
00:40:05
Speaker
Like, how do we find it? How do we find these very far right Republican think tank websites and figure out what they're doing? What is the Heritage Center doing? people who are really good at being able to research on the internet, have at, like, that's a great way to help, right?
00:40:24
Speaker
But even as small as having a barbecue in your own neighborhood, talking about something that matters to you. For years and years, I've been thinking about, like, how I can bring awareness of Tabor, the Tabor amendment and how it's impacting Colorado or how it will impact Colorado as a result of the legislation that just went through for the big, beautiful bill.
00:40:54
Speaker
Just call it that. Anyway, um how it's going exponentially impact Colorado because of our lack of reserve in state tax money um because of the taxpayer bill of rights it is a legislation that went through in the 70s 80s 80s maybe it was night i don't know i have to look it up but um that to me i was like we're gonna have taber day i'm gonna have a taber day barbecue in my neighborhood yeah which holds feet tall and we're gonna we're gonna have food and we're gonna have a conversation because i live
00:41:37
Speaker
in a fairly Republican area, surprisingly enough. I live in an old like redlined area of color of Denver that you know was for military folks.
Generational Views on Labor and Protest
00:41:50
Speaker
And so those houses are still pretty frequently owned by family members of the original people who got the you know GI Bill and built one of these houses, right?
00:42:03
Speaker
So I could effectively have some kind of neighborhood, you know, block party type thing. And it's Tabor Day where we talk about the Tabor Amendment and how it's going to screw us over. you going to make are you going to make it fun?
00:42:20
Speaker
I know it's a barbecue. Beach balls and food. You'd be surprised. How many people will come for beach balls and food? Oh, definitely.
00:42:33
Speaker
But face painting, I don't know, we'll have something, but like, that's why we have other people who are good at setting up parties and doing that part of it. Right. Like I can cook some food and I'm usually the the one that brings the boom. I'm not usually the one that brings the joy and the happy.
00:42:52
Speaker
Gotta know your part. Gotta know your part. Right.
00:42:57
Speaker
but And this reminds me of the the class that I think I've spoken of before, which, um, know, it's over now, but it was acts of beauty and defiance. And that is an act of beauty and defiance bringing community together and having fun and talking about something that matters.
00:43:15
Speaker
And one of the things that the person, Laura Hartley, who did the class talks about a lot, and i mean lots of people talk about this, but is internalized capitalism.
00:43:26
Speaker
And I feel like that's like a very micro level to protest Like yeah by recognizing it in ourselves and how we absorb those messages and then actively just questioning the messages and how does that affect how we behave in everyday life?
00:43:47
Speaker
Like how do we absorb the messages of capitalism? Like my body and my time are like, ah endlessly replenishable resources and I can exhaust them and it's totally fine much like what we do to our planet yeah so yeah yeah that's speaking to me right now I think it speaks to many of us who've worked in let's just say like health care type settings or certain types of
00:44:19
Speaker
work settings, especially, and just generally. And I think we're really seeing a lot of, you know, millennial down to Gen Z,
00:44:34
Speaker
they're struggling because they're like, this is crazy. i am not spending 90 hours a week doing whatever that job is.
00:44:45
Speaker
I have, I want to have a life. And i think that's a good point. And I think it's a, I think it's a middle ground point. I think it is a middle ground point for people Democrats, Republicans, liberal, conservative, I think it it is a talking point.
00:45:04
Speaker
And I think even my dad would say, probably, at this point, like, he's 85. He's not working anymore. But he is saying to me, like, I worked as hard as I could, as hard as I was willing to in that moment when I was...
00:45:22
Speaker
working because I wanted to raise my kids and I wanted to be home with them at five o'clock or six. And I wanted to i was not willing to work in, in, in a different way. So I think even all the way up to, you know, the last generation or the baby boomers, like that's, ah so it speaks to them.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, a huge problem right now where everything is a resource to be extracted from or plundered or sucked rather than maybe this thing, whatever it is, like a small business or whatever doesn't need to be the size of the world. Maybe it doesn't need to constantly expand
Building Community Ties as Protest
00:46:17
Speaker
and grow. it can just be what it is.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah. good And I think, I think Gen Z is all over that. yes I think they are all about doing that. way I don't even remember what was it. What's it called? Somebody in here. I know.
00:46:32
Speaker
Quiet quitting. Huh? That's just having boundaries. I think quiet quitting or, ah there's like a, like retiring by the age of 30 by way of using resources. Like there's a whole, I've,
00:46:48
Speaker
I can't remember what it's, there's a thing for it though. But it's, it's all about like, not like doing everything you can to not play into that, to not to be able to have what you need without having to expand it. And that's whether buying a bigger house, getting a better car, whatever it is, right? We do this with all the things. I think you're right about that.
00:47:17
Speaker
Yeah. So I don't know, even just on that level of protest that sometimes that's all that feels doable, depending on the day. And sometimes even that doesn't feel doable. Sometimes I'm like, I got to buy this thing because I want it.
00:47:32
Speaker
Yeah. And that should be a thing. That's I don't think that's part of it. Yeah. that but The buying is not so much. So sometimes sometimes it's just like, Yeah, kid i think it's working. It's this whole idea that i have to work at least 40 hours a week. And then it's like, I have to work 50. If I want to go on that vacation next year, i have to work 60. If I want to have kids someday, i have to work like that is how I think Gen Z is thinking about things right now is
00:48:04
Speaker
And they're looking at protest and doing anything to change government or to that. That is like not even a thing. What are you talking about? I don't have ah my time is my time.
00:48:16
Speaker
Right. And it's like, OK, it is until we don't have the ability to do anything anymore. I think there's a lot of Gen Z who are protesting, though, i think in all sorts of different ways. But I'm like basing this off of Instagram.
00:48:29
Speaker
because I don't have that. And I think that brings the boycotting, right? This brings yeah like, because that's the other thing that my my good friend who can't be out on the streets or do that kind of thing, she absolutely has been boycotting different organizations, Target, and some of the other, I don't know which other ones, but Amazon.
00:48:53
Speaker
Huh? Amazon. Amazon. There you go I can't see it. That's something I can't. i would love to, but I can't because I need it. Um, cause I can't drive places to go pick up things. Right.
00:49:04
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So, so some people pick up, you know, where other people, Can I have to pick up each other's slack? Yeah. And maybe it again, it's, you know, that your neighbor can't drive. Maybe you take them to a few stores once a week. Is that protesting?
00:49:23
Speaker
Maybe it's helping and it's bringing things back to community because I think also that's another piece that has come in recently, very recently. This is the newest, uh,
00:49:35
Speaker
I think addition to that protest movement is we're gonna protest by way of building community where we are. What do people need in our community? what Do we have a community dinner that just brings everybody in in that on that block in that neighborhood together?
00:49:56
Speaker
Everybody brings a dish and we all eat a big meal together. Like, do we figure out Who are the who are the the people who have children who are old enough to mow lawns or shovel snow or you know drop off groceries to
Community Support as Silent Protest
00:50:15
Speaker
people? like Who are those folks?
00:50:18
Speaker
Can they help the elderly that are living in their communities? Because we're going to have nursing homes closed. We're going to have people living in their, like, without what they need.
00:50:32
Speaker
They're not going to have what they need And who's going to need to provide that? Well, who used to provide that? Your family used to provide that. Okay. Well, what if your family's not available to provide that?
00:50:44
Speaker
It's your neighbors. Right. Yes. And we just, we, I feel like our field took that away, Charlotte. Like, are you a social worker, Patty? I'm not. No. Okay.
00:50:56
Speaker
Okay. So I feel like we... brought in social services at a time where it was absolutely necessary and nobody could help each other because it was so bad at the time of the depression.
00:51:10
Speaker
So it was a governmental thing. but I think it stopped people from really thinking about what do my neighbors need? Or I'm noticing, I'm hearing something It's going on. Kids are upset. Something's happening over at my that other house. I don't really know what it is.
00:51:29
Speaker
I'm going to call social services to check that out. I'm not just going to go knock on the door and be like, hey, what's going Right? like Yeah, that's a good point.
00:51:41
Speaker
I had not thought about that. And so can we help people? Can we just notice what's going on? Because it was also very small, right? It was very tight-knit communities.
00:51:55
Speaker
Right. And so they were, and they still do this in Appalachia. They do. um Places that don't have a lot to ah get from social services, right?
00:52:07
Speaker
They help each other out. They bring a cups of sugar and, you know, beef, and they trade with each other, and they help each other out. But we in the city tend not to do that. we were like, oh, I just heard that thud or I just heard, and you know, I can hear my neighbor crying in the apartment next door, but I'm not sure what's going on. and it feels intrusive to go and ask.
00:52:32
Speaker
And it might be, they might slam the door in your face, but we don't even try anymore.
00:52:41
Speaker
Is that protest? It's creating the world that you want to see on a micro level. So I think that's a form of protest is like, how do I want things to be?
00:52:56
Speaker
and then try to create It's like the literal embodiment of, uh, be the change you want to see in the world. And you're also building then that, um,
00:53:10
Speaker
that it's okay if you feel this way or you voted for that person or whatever, that we're all working towards something and also learning about each other. So, you know, like they say one of the best ways to get over, um hold on, my Siri keeps trying to listen to me.
00:53:29
Speaker
They say the best way to- Stop listening, Siri. Get over- a private conversation. Get over- get over homophobia is to meet someone queer, right? So like, oh, okay, so I'm going to meet a Democrat and, you know, listen to a few of the things that they say and then realize like, oh, wait, okay, we both want to be able to get to the grocery store and back or whatever it is.
00:54:01
Speaker
Or you're crying in your apartment and I'm a human being and you're a human being. And when did it ever become okay for us to just be like, meh, somebody else got it.
00:54:13
Speaker
And yes, you're going to get the door slammed in your face sometimes. People don't always want you in their business.
Critique of Performative Charity
00:54:20
Speaker
I think, again, as a disabled person, I have developed a skill in being able to to ask for help and to be able to suss out when other people need help too.
00:54:33
Speaker
And ask when it's appropriate to ask and ask in a way that isn't that... way of sort of, oh, let me be a charity to you, like you poor thing.
00:54:51
Speaker
It's not that. And it's not patting myself on the back when I give help. And it's thanking people, but allowing them to help is a way that is how we develop intimacy and closeness with people.
00:55:04
Speaker
It doesn't happen without that. can I take a very brief tangent to say it makes me so mad when people post about the good deeds that they did and then they like take a picture with the person that they helped and then like to get like a million you know like have ever ever seen those where it's like like it's just the ones that like go viral because like this person did this good deal I'm like but then then you chose to take a picture of it and then talk about it and then talk about what a good person you are for doing it. And so it really wasn't about them. It was about your likes on Instagram.
00:55:38
Speaker
Oh my God. And like did you ask them permission to post their photo? And I feel like on a larger scale, there are agencies that do this.
00:55:53
Speaker
That also, that is their whole shtick. We created that from macro to micro. where it's like, we help, we're so great. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Whether it's, whether it's community mental health or it's, you know that church down the street, that's like, we have this, you know, weekly dinner and we take pictures and we put our arms around that person who's houseless and, and we're not really answering the question or trying to solve the problem of why it is that they don't have a place to call home or call their house. Like,
00:56:28
Speaker
shelter over their head We're not talking about that. We're just serving them dinner once a week. And that's like, we feel really good about it. It's really great. And they come back every single week because they, we're not helping them change the problem.
Exposing Diverse Experiences through Protest
00:56:43
Speaker
Yeah. Like a very important thing to do and maybe looking at the roots of that issue and ah Right. And making it more about, you know, cause churches do great things. They are wonderful and they do help people. But I think sometimes there's like, well, let let's say the example of like greenwashing, that kind of thing.
00:57:06
Speaker
Um, talk more about that. What's that? Oh, it's like when companies are like, we are so environmentally friendly cause we do these things, but it's sort of fake and it maybe doesn't, they don't, maybe don't talk about the ways that they, uh,
00:57:21
Speaker
mess with the environment or pollute the environment. um So like, you know, if somebody like Amazon is like, we do these things and our packaging is, is like environmentally friendly and ah we ignore the ways that we like ruin small businesses and, you know, all these other things that kind of devastate the ah world in different ways or also in environmental ways.
00:57:49
Speaker
Well, and they, they,
00:57:53
Speaker
contribute to that autocratic part of things, right? So they if we are consolidating all of these little mom and pops businesses into Amazon, who's just selling stuff from what, you know, like I just imagine, and I know it's awful, but I i do use them. lots and Lots of people do, and sometimes I do too. So we can't take that responsibility either of like, I can never buy from from these places because Sometimes you can't.
00:58:24
Speaker
Sometimes you have to, and that's totally fine. That's not gonna change the system. That's like know the same thing as, oh, I did this one one thing and I don't need to think about the root of the problem.
Maintaining Connections Across Beliefs
00:58:38
Speaker
Right, and I think i think the more, i also think the more that folks like are doing these things in churches, they're having this big community dinner, you are hearing, you are exposed.
00:58:52
Speaker
to why these things are, or what's happening that brought this person to this situation. right And again, it's like you said, it's exposure to things you're not familiar with.
00:59:04
Speaker
And so it's bringing those two factions together and kind of asking people to think about it. And I think that's protest 100%. Yeah.
00:59:18
Speaker
As a another side note, I'm sorry. like I'm all over the place, but ah kind of related back to what you're talking about, actually what you were just saying about, um, talking to people with disparate views and what you're saying, Patty, about Democrats and Republicans talking.
00:59:35
Speaker
I have this client at a nursing home who we have a very good relationship. And, um, I think maybe nine months, well, maybe not Yeah. Maybe like nine months into like meeting for therapy.
00:59:50
Speaker
Um, He was like, are you a Democrat? Because he's a Republican. And I was like, yeah. yeah I mean, couldn't you tell by you know that time that I told you that my backpack was made out of plastic taken from the ocean? Or...
01:00:13
Speaker
Or, I mean, not every social worker is a Democrat, but like that that's maybe a sign. And he was like like, I thought maybe, but but I like you. It's amazing how that works, right?
01:00:25
Speaker
I know. And I was like, yes. And I like you. um yeah And that, it similarly with my dad, I swore, like the first year, I'm like, my dad has never, my dad voted for Buckley,
01:00:42
Speaker
um William F. Buckley. That's it. Yep. um in the first Trump presidency, so or second Trump presidency, tried that he he would not vote for- Trump or Bush?
01:00:59
Speaker
So no, Trump- Oh, the second Trump. Oh, so that's Trump. Second Trump would not vote for Biden.
01:01:08
Speaker
So i'm like, and and it was so hard. I mean, we've been having like 2020 the way So- so it's actually it was even, it wasn't, it was 2016 that I went into grad school. So it was all that time for all those years. And finally, my dad is tod starting to talk like me. He's like, this is crazy.
01:01:32
Speaker
We have consolidation of people. And it's like, all these things are happening. We have, ah and he's talking about it in that way. And I'm like, I'm kind of amazed that we've gotten here, but it matters to talk to people and it matters to talk to people who matter to you and who you matter to about these things. My kids want to throw me out the window because they're sick of hearing about it, but, and I'm kind of preaching to the choir. I'm hoping never know.
01:02:07
Speaker
Don't push them to the other side. They're probably also out there quoting you. You
Protest Strategies for Safety and Partnership
01:02:12
Speaker
know what I mean? Like I do think that there's some, of that too, that of course it's like, oh my gosh, mom again, like we get it, but you are teaching them what they are also going out and telling other people.
01:02:27
Speaker
no So I advise too, that if you are going down to protest somewhere downtown, this is my my ask is that you find if there is another disabled person in your group that you're going with, that you partner with that person because going down to physically put your body in potential danger yeah is a different game with people with disabilities.
01:03:05
Speaker
um I'll never forget watching the BLM protests. There was, I think it was in Los Angeles where one There was a guy who was in a wheelchair who was caught in the middle in between the the front line of the protest and the police line.
01:03:24
Speaker
And he was just getting nailed with everything under the sun and could not get up on the sidewalk because it was too high up. So he was not able to get his wheelchair onto the sidewalk.
01:03:37
Speaker
So it helps to have people with you um in any capacity. I know for me, the last one I was at, you were so nice. You came with me to the first part and then I went to the second part of that protest and we were marching, marching, marching. And a lot of the time, I'm not even sure where I'm marching. I know it's gonna go back to the Capitol eventually. That's sort of how I think about it, right? I'm not really totally sure where we are, but but we're gonna get back to the Capitol at some point, right?
01:04:10
Speaker
And as long as you keep moving, it's usually not, there's no danger there, right? It's when you're you're being stopped or you're by the police that that starts to be difficult. So we're marching, marching, marching, we stop and I'm like, okay, well, cool. And we're just doing our thing, doing our chance, whatever.
01:04:29
Speaker
All of a sudden I get, I get a tap on my shoulder and I get somebody, i don't know, some lady who comes up to me and says, you know what? I'm not sure how much you can see.
01:04:41
Speaker
but you are right up against the police line, just so you know. And they're about ready to go on to i twenty five And so i just I just wanted to let you know. And I was just like, thank you very much for telling me that.
01:04:57
Speaker
And I waited a few minutes. I'm like, it seems pretty mellow right now. And then it got into some of the more hairy protesting stuff. Like, who do you serve? Who do you protect? Like, it's direct...
01:05:09
Speaker
directly going up against police. And that's usually when the beanbags start coming out and water bottles get thrown and whatnot. And so I'm like, you know what? going to head left and go with a different group of people who are going over that way.
01:05:24
Speaker
and And worked out fine. If that lady hadn't told me that, I don't, I would not have known. Yeah. And so in some way, even if you don't go with somebody who has a disability, but you see someone who has a disability, that was a really nice thing for her to do.
01:05:43
Speaker
So just something to think about. That's great advice. Do you have any specific homework assignments for us? do I want I would love it if you guys would find to,
01:05:59
Speaker
For yourself, Charlotte, I'm thinking writing something, an op-ed, doing something, you know, like that's your shtick is writing. And so maybe you write a children's book about participating in protest.
01:06:14
Speaker
Maybe, you know, I don't know, something that you feel like is your thing. Or we could just go to another protest like we have. Both. sound good to make
01:06:28
Speaker
um but that you find a way to protest that speaks to you. Yeah. Any skills, Patty, that you feel like you would love to use in protest? Well, I think the idea of like, I've been meaning to, so Margot, I live in St. Louis and I haven't lived here for a very long time, um but I've been meaning to, and I've gone to a few protests since being here on my own and that's been fine.
01:06:58
Speaker
but i have been meaning to kind of find a group and um was thinking like Indivisible is a good one because they have so many different groups. So i I do think like finding a group and then also kind of seeing what they have available.
01:07:15
Speaker
I do like the idea of going to a protest and maybe being like a buddy for someone who's even just nervous about going for like alone or for their first time or whatever.
01:07:26
Speaker
yeah um being able to do that, I think. This is the first time since 2020 that I have seen a lot of older people going out to pro, I mean, there are some,
01:07:37
Speaker
my One of my neighbors is in his mid-80s, and he's going down to protest yeah the Capitol. So, yeah, find some folks that maybe maybe some folks you know that maybe haven't gone because they don't feel like they can, ask, right? yeah I'd love that. So not just protesting, but maybe finding a way...
01:08:03
Speaker
to involve other people. That's always been a hardship for me. I had a hard time with that at Colorado People's Action. That's hard. And I don't think we're good at it right away. I think it takes skills to bring people in.
01:08:16
Speaker
and so maybe doing the ask of other people a little bit too. It's really cute. my My parents are really into protesting right now. um I mean, always, but, and my mom especially, but So they have a handmade sign that they have out front that is always telling what they live in Chicago. So what the next protest is. And so update it And my mom's like, I think I need to change the colors. So people know that it's a new protest.
01:08:44
Speaker
They also went around their neighborhood and like with this plastic wrap that they bought to put like um them on light poles and stuff like that. But also, yeah.
01:08:55
Speaker
So they take L down, the public transportation, And they've made some friends while waiting on the L platform that were like going solo or whatever. And so now she like, they're in her text thread. So like, she'll be like, we're going to be leaving at this time if you want to come, you know, and I just love it. Yeah, it's like, she's just making protest friends, you know, it's like,
01:09:20
Speaker
all right, we're all in this together and kind of just growing it. And it's really, it's been really cool so to watch. And every time they go, I'm always like, thank you for doing this. Cause you know, sometimes they're going when I'm not.
01:09:33
Speaker
And um yeah yeah. Like sit-ins are really hard. It's usually the middle of the day on any, you know, a Tuesday you're working, like people are working.
01:09:45
Speaker
And so if we can You know, if the young people can go back to being the ones that do the weekend protests, all of us who are working, right? And the older people just descend on people's offices to just sit in their offices all day.
01:10:02
Speaker
like what are you going to do? are you really, are you really going to arrest 12 gray-headed people? Are you really going to do that? No, I do not. grandmas and grandpas.
01:10:12
Speaker
You're not going to do that. But if they do, we're going take pictures and make sure everybody knows. That's right. Yeah. How are those optics? um Margot, have you ever been arrested for protesting?
01:10:24
Speaker
Oh, you're going love this. No, I have not. I have not been arrested. I have been walked out of a couple of places, but I have never actually been arrested. Walked out. and know, right?
01:10:37
Speaker
That's great. Yeah. That's a good thing. um Patty, does your mom bring the boom to the protest? Because feel like she could bring the boom. Like that Margot brings.
01:10:49
Speaker
The energy. the That fight. Yeah, no. she She brings the energy. She's a former teacher. So it's like, you know, we're going to follow the rules. We're going to be polite about this. But we are going to make ourselves heard.
01:11:06
Speaker
But I think that's another part of it. is like I know people say, like oh well, what good does a protest actually do? Or you know being two by two at the offices and things like that. it's just It's to be like, we are watching you. We know what you are doing. You are not getting away with this.
01:11:24
Speaker
We are paying attention. so And it shows the rest of the world like... Not everybody likes this. And whoever is, yeah I always think about it and with sit-ins. i always think about it in terms of like some guys coming into Gabe Evans office to talk about, you know, getting a land grant for something or whatever. Like he's got business in that office that he needs to do with those staffers.
01:11:50
Speaker
And it's just filled with people. We're passing around potluck and whatever. You got to wait. There are 50 people ahead of you. you got to wait. Sorry. It's a protest day.
01:12:02
Speaker
Gabe Evans isn't going to be able to help you today because he's too busy. And we're not offering you potluck because you didn't bring anything. No. I was just going to say every Friday, I think it is.
01:12:15
Speaker
And it is a lot of like gray hair people because it's the middle the day and good for them. Yeah, they're awesome. And those are some of the, I, again, I think it's safe.
01:12:28
Speaker
I think it can be kind. It doesn't have to be this, like you're out fighting the police, like you're worried about whoever's coming ready to, you know, get brawny with the police. Like that's not a thing that most people want, like most older people want to deal with. Right.
01:12:47
Speaker
And so can you sit in someone's office and hand out cookies and do your stitching and you're just there? and Well, and as my mom also says, she's only 75, but as she also says, because she has a lot of friends who, when she'll invite them, they'll be like, well, I'm afraid to get on some list and that there'll be some like repercussions. And she's like, i don't care.
01:13:08
Speaker
I'm old. What do you, like, put me on a list. I don't have that much time left. It's not like I'm going for my first big job or anything. Like, I... you' I'm self-sustaining, right? That's kind of, a I appreciate that.
01:13:21
Speaker
And I think, I have to be honest, I don't know for sure, but I would say to you that, you know, I've done some pretty heavy duty signs, pretty heavy duty protesting, like with, you know, talking very clearly. Well, let me show you the shirt I brought. Yeah.
01:13:41
Speaker
But saying some of the things that are a little bit more difficult for people, if they're not the ah soft things, um and I've not been put on a list. I've not been, you know, I have not. ored That you know of.
01:13:58
Speaker
Exactly. And maybe that's true. But at the end of the day, like This is the stuff we've got, again, that tension comes in many forms, right? This is one of the shirts that I wear to protest.
01:14:15
Speaker
The Holocaust manifested a veneer of civilization so thin that repetition was possible. ah school
01:14:26
Speaker
Wow. And you know where I found it? You're gonna love this.
01:14:32
Speaker
So where I found it was at the Goodwill, There were eight copies of this shirt. Somebody is has a good idea, right?
01:14:45
Speaker
That's brilliant. So if you're a really good t-shirt maker, yeah.
01:14:53
Speaker
I think that list is the whatever that list might be. when we say we do to some extent have to put ourselves in a little bit of, um, put ourselves out there and be willing to say it out loud. Like that part of that is true too. If I'm on a list, I'm on a list. If my face is out there and I can't get, you know, things are are going to go wrong for me
Inspiration to Engage in Activism
01:15:18
Speaker
for a minute. Well, then that's what I'm here fighting for right now is hopefully that doesn't make that kind of a change. And so,
01:15:27
Speaker
I would rather fight it today than not have the ability to fight it tomorrow. And I think that's what in whatever capacity we have space for. and you know, if you're a person who is white or like has more available finances or time, then you can have a little more ability to put yourself out there than somebody who is a person of color especially
01:15:58
Speaker
being targeted right now. yeah And sometimes even like then your presence is protective to the people around. hundred percent. So yeah, a hundred percent.
01:16:11
Speaker
So yeah. And that, that is, that's a tool that's actually used protest, right? You put, you put the white people on the sidelines and you insulate the the people of color in the group and we're protective.
01:16:25
Speaker
around the people of color so that they aren't getting snatched off the street by ICE and they're not, you know, it's, it's, that's not the purpose of it because it can be, it can be again, fish in a barrel happens all over the place. Yeah.
01:16:40
Speaker
Protests are often where people are vulnerable and that the fact that they're willing to come out and be vulnerable with us, part of our, you know, You're going to come get the blind lady. You're going to come through me to get to that.
01:16:54
Speaker
Come on. Cause that's going to look really bad on you. All right. right We got our orders. Yay.
01:17:06
Speaker
Yeah. And perfect timing really, you know, I mean, never a bad time to protest, but there's plenty of opportunity and need for it. So I think that's great.
01:17:18
Speaker
Yeah. Thanks for you guys for having me on. This has been a real pleasure. I appreciate you guys for doing you so much this work. Because this is protest too. Getting people out there.
01:17:29
Speaker
I was thinking that when we were talking to you know today is that if it inspires people or you know educates people, that's a form of protest too.
01:17:41
Speaker
But we are going to post about our form of ah protest in the work we're doing. And we we're going to become the people that was just complaining about. or We're going to post a picture and be like, yeah, look at us.
01:17:55
Speaker
That's good. We do this. We take pictures of protests because in some ways that helps us remember the work we've done too. And to show people we are out there. So come on.
01:18:10
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Margot. This was great. You bet. Thank you for having me. Stay interesting. And stay interested. Absolutely. Have a guys.
01:18:21
Speaker
Bye. Thanks for listening to today's episode. Please subscribe, comment, and like the podcast. Follow us on Blue Sky Social at CanWeInterestYouIn. Send us an email at CanWeInterestYouIn at gmail.com.
01:18:35
Speaker
And join us next time.