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23- Grassroots Marketing... The Follow Up
0 Playsin 7 hours
We start the episode with Charlotte and Patti's first catchup in a while. Patti tells us about the new role she accidentally volunteered for. Charlotte tells us the lengths she’ll go for free eggnog.
Our follow-up to the grassroots marketing episode begins at 14:30.
We talk about our interview with Alaina Shearer, podcast host, brand strategist, founder of the agency, Good Now, and former Congressional candidate (and that’s not even close to her whole bio!) and what we learned from talking with her.
Then, our homework:
Watch a vision boarding TED talk - we chose Draw Your Future, Patti Dobrowolski - and create a vision/symbol of what we stand for.
We record our process of drawing Can We Interest You In...?'s present state and our desired future state for the podcast. To see what we’ve drawn, check out our posts on Instagram and Blue Sky.
We cover a lot of ground, including:
The gamification of hobbies
Pure enthusiasm! as a vision for the podcast, rather than growth for growth’s sake
Saving democracy
Some solid options for a new name for Instagram
Safety pins versus paper clips as political symbols and/or merch
Should our new mascot be a cooler version of Clippy, ye olde Microsoft “helper”?
Our internal reactions to the visioning process
Did you try drawing your vision too? Let us know how it turned out!
Links from the episode:
Draw Your Future, Patti Dobrowolski, TEDxRainier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zESeeaFDVSw
YouTube birding documentary; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-wAqplQAo
The Atlantic article on the birding documentary, Listers: https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/2025/10/listers-documentary-ebird-hobbies/684620/?gift=pLCL5Im1s3meqYpH0lMpRqeFE5rqMjvIOScqwB7U2Wg&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
The poem, “Lost,” by David Wagoner - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse?volume=118&issue=4&page=35
For more info on Jim Hamilton’s “Falling” comic book: https://www.instagram.com/p/DHZVx7tvkXR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Logo design: Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
Bluesky: @CanWeInterestYouIn.bsky.social
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: CanWeInterestYouIn.com
Recommended
Transcript
Unusual Hobbies and Coaching Adventures
00:00:00
Speaker
You know that thing you love that your friends and family don't want to hear about anymore? Tell it to us, Patty and Charlotte. We want to learn all about your weird and wild obsessions or your perfectly normal hobbies that you've taken just a little too far.
00:00:15
Speaker
We want to dabble in your curious interests. Can we interest you in today's episode?
00:00:35
Speaker
Hey, Charlotte. Hey, Patty. How are you? I'm pretty good. How about you? it's been a while since we have like a little catch up. I was just gonna say it's just the two of us.
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah. Well, how have you been? Pretty good. um I actually just started. i had my first team practice yesterday. I'm the one of the coaches for third and fourth grade volleyball at the YMCA.
00:01:06
Speaker
Oh, my God. Yes. Now, unintentionally signed up. um And when I've told other people here in St. Louis, they're like, oh, you said you you checked. Yes. On the question, like, would you be willing to help? And I was like, yeah, but even worse, I was signing up my niece under my sister's name. So she got signed up to be the coach. Yeah.
00:01:33
Speaker
And then I had to like reach out and be like, um, so it's not going to be her for sure. But if you if you need somebody, i can do it.
00:01:44
Speaker
ah Do you have you played volleyball? Are you not not since eighth grade? Well, I guess I did play a summer. Did you play summer with us that one year where we did the summer league down at Montrose Avenue?
00:01:58
Speaker
was it um Was it like beach volleyball? Beach volleyball, yeah. I do believe I did do one summer of beach volleyball a long time Not that that was a bad time, but beach volleyball just seems so hard.
00:02:18
Speaker
At least yeah indoors, it's you know You're not in the sun. You're not. Or the sand. It's really hard to move in the sand. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's it's easier. But it is really funny because I'm like, oh, I have no qualifications for this whatsoever. But thankfully, my co-coach is a mother um of one of the other players. And she played for like eight years and more recently, like junior college, she said. So she feels like she knows what she's doing.
00:02:52
Speaker
So it's perfect. I'm just just tell you what to do. Yeah, I'm just the cheerleader. I'm like, okay, I'll learn everybody's names and I'll like be the positive reinforcement. Yeah, you bring some snacks. And chase balls.
00:03:04
Speaker
Set things up. ah yeah Which it was actually adorable. Layla brought snacks. like She was so excited because she's the one who's going to be playing. And she was so excited. She packed a bag the night before and included snacks for me, herself, and her friend who's also on the team like oh and and a first aid kit.
00:03:26
Speaker
She's wow so adorable. Yeah. Yeah. Very impressive. I know. Yeah. She's like, I brought some things that I thought might help you too as the coach. I'm like, oh my God, I love it. So yeah. Yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
um How about for you? um Things are pretty good. i Actually, I recently had um my middle niece, Elise, over to our house to watch a movie because we're trying to do something individual with each kid. na Yeah. And so she came over and we watched the the third Harry Potter movie, am which I fell asleep during.
00:04:04
Speaker
And then even though i was very into it, but I was very tired. It was a Friday. And then the next morning we took her to her soccer game. And I had just so I was wondering, like, all of the coaches, all of the coaches for the and this she's what, seven yeah um for their soccer teams are like dads they're these like dude dads and it was making me think of like when we were kids and they you know they seem so old and now i'm like no they're like young coolish dads or youngish and i was asking charlie though because he's one of the coaches how come there's no women or moms coaching and he he he had no idea why
00:04:50
Speaker
But I guess, yeah, they're all playing volleyball. They're all coaching volleyball. Right. So wait, did Charlie get signed up because he volunteered? Yeah, he volunteered on purpose. Okay.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, on purpose. Good distinction. No, so that that is interesting that it it's the dads that volunteered apparently for that. Yeah. If i could play soccer or knew any of the rules, I would volunteer. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah. and honestly I just, I don't know how to teach people to do things, you know, like I'm like, how does anybody learn anything? How do I learn anything? It's just, it feels very overwhelming.
00:05:32
Speaker
so And depending on the age group, you have to either just cheer them on or start teaching them basic skills and sportsmanship and all that.
00:05:44
Speaker
This seems like a lot. The soft skills. Yeah. You're going to be a good sport and a good loser.
00:05:53
Speaker
At one point, one of the girls was like, are we winning? We're not even playing. like We are ah are in practice. And I was like, oh i don't know. I i wasn't keeping score. There's no scoring.
00:06:08
Speaker
And I just, it brought back memories too. I remember in seventh grade, my friend Kelly and I were so giggly. One of the practices, we could not stop laughing that our coach just made us keep running laps until we stopped laughing. And so like we'd stop laughing and then we'd just start again and we'd be like oh no, we have to go run. Like I just couldn't, could not stop.
00:06:30
Speaker
ah Coach was killing your joy with running. Yes, exactly. You will not enjoy this. This is not to be enjoyed.
Running Events and Uncommon Challenges
00:06:41
Speaker
Speaking of which, I am excited that I signed up for this Turkey Trek thing, which is a 10K in November. But it's like a 10K where optionally, after running three miles up a hill, you can chug eggnog and that and then keep going and then jump some hay bales and then keep going and then eat a piece of pumpkin pie.
00:07:09
Speaker
oh my God. And I am pretty excited about almost all of those things. Not not the hay bales, but the eggnog and the pumpkin pie. I'm into it.
00:07:21
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm just imagining all the puke everywhere. Like that is going to be so gross. Well, luckily you run up the hill first and then you chug the, actually, maybe that's not a good sequence of events.
00:07:35
Speaker
ah um Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Your your stomach's constitution. Yeah. It's optional though. So if you do do it, you get entered for ah like a drawing for free shoes. Yeah.
00:07:51
Speaker
sneakers o and you like eggnog so you also get the eggnog you get five ounces of eggnog yeah oh my god wait is this on thanksgiving no it's it's like the weekend before the 22nd okay that's very good because you you could be like out of commission then for the rest of thanksgiving not wanting to eat anything else Yeah. that Well, maybe.
00:08:17
Speaker
and But I recently ran 15K hot chocolate run. Yeah. It's the only way I can get myself to exercise is to sign up for these runs. So that, ah it actually went very well. But then afterwards, I was wrecked, like as a human being.
00:08:37
Speaker
And I just laid on the couch. But then we went to Old Spaghetti Factory for dinner. Because I was able to. Carbo loaded after. Yes, yes, exactly.
00:08:49
Speaker
So if I could do that, I think the 10K will be okay. Oh, for sure. yeah no, that that's amazing. good Good on you for like doing all these runs. And this is definitely the time of year that I prefer to be outside running if and back when I did that kind of stuff, like where it's not nearly as hot and it's just like cool and you can wait maybe even wear a layer.
00:09:14
Speaker
But um I do remember doing a um a 5K that was in honor of fallen police many, many, many years ago. And at one of the water stops, it was only a 5K, one of the water stops, they had beer.
00:09:33
Speaker
And so you could drink beer instead of, or in addition to water. And I was like, oh, that sounds great. And remember I did it with Chris and we drank the beer and then I had horrible cramps for the rest of the, like, you know, only...
00:09:47
Speaker
one and a half miles after that. But it was just like, so now, you know, it feels such like such a great idea in my head and my body just never like, you know, it was like, no, we do not agree with this decision.
00:10:00
Speaker
Okay.
Guest Excitement and Podcast Growth
00:10:01
Speaker
Okay. This is making me think that there are maybe some consequences that I have not fully thought through and that maybe I should bring eggnog to the gym.
00:10:11
Speaker
When I'm running yeah as part of training. ah just Nothing new on race day.
00:10:21
Speaker
you know At the gym, they're like, there's that girl who brings a bottle of eggnog. Instead of water. but ah disgusting. You've got like eggnog mustache.
00:10:38
Speaker
So is the eggnog going to be spiked or not spiked? You know, Steph was asking the same thing. Like she thought I was saying it was going to be spiked. I can only assume it's not going to be spiked because they didn't check my ID when I signed up or anything.
00:10:54
Speaker
So no. So that's, that's, Disgusting, right? Like that's really disgusting. There is a line. Yeah. And I cannot bring spiked eggnog to the gym.
00:11:07
Speaker
And I mean, I i could. Okay. But it would be creating a safety issue that I don't think I want to do.
00:11:18
Speaker
Oh, man. I can't wait to hear if you know what you end up doing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to see. We're going to see how thrown up there It's a couple weeks Yeah. I mean, no, more than couple. I just learned the other day that couple literally means two. I always thought it was the same as a few. but So it's only a few weeks away is what I should say.
00:11:40
Speaker
I feel like I had learned that few means three, but that was when I was in school, and I don't know if that's accurate. so So several is what I should say.
00:11:51
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds right. Okay. It's like four or five. Yeah, that's really annoying. ah Just like the other day also when I was at the dog park, someone was like, are you doing? And I was like, good. And then I was like, shoot, good is not grammatically appropriate. And then I was like, but what is that doesn't make you sound like a total D-bag? Wait, you can't say good?
00:12:16
Speaker
How are you doing? Good. Aren't you supposed to say? I'm doing well, thank you. Yes, well. Like you can't do, you do good, you don't, you aren't good.
00:12:28
Speaker
I don't know. What are the responses that make you sound like a total D-bag? Well. how you doing? Well. Does anybody say that? sounds like a well comma. Well.
00:12:40
Speaker
Well, well. My back's, my sciatica's acting up again, and I don't know why I have to talk like that. That's how I talk when I'm at the dog's bar. Yeah.
00:12:52
Speaker
You know anybody to know who you are. Right. Your persona. But maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe you can say good. I say good all the time, i think. Okay. And you know grammar.
00:13:06
Speaker
i was like, I don't even know what to like. I don't know what to Google. Like, can you say good when people ask how you are do think we should do more of like i'm actually pretty gassy or you know i like whatever the truth is there's a podcast um and she wrote a book as well it was like terrible thanks for asking like someone who's like yeah like if you ask i'm gonna tell you i'm terrible okay so a quick search says that um
00:13:44
Speaker
Good is the most common answer and seen as polite and cheerful. um However, well is considered more grammatically correct.
00:13:55
Speaker
Good is widely used and understood to mean you are cheerful and have a positive disposition.
00:14:03
Speaker
See? That's a little overkill. and The assumption's there. but We do say that, like, in the beginning of these podcasts. with Like, how are you doing?
00:14:15
Speaker
I'm good. Yeah. But I think, yeah, let's let's start changing it up. How are we doing? Let's be honest. I'm hungover. I'm not. But, you know, like.
00:14:27
Speaker
Available. I'm melancholy. Whatever it is. We had our first guest who's somebody we had never met before, which is. i know. An exciting milestone for a podcast.
00:14:39
Speaker
It really was. It was very exciting to both get the, that you know, email reach out, which I did have to Google her because i was like, are we being catfished via podcast?
00:14:52
Speaker
um You know, just to make sure she was legit. But yeah, that was really exciting. And she was delightful. Right. She was. And to to Google her and be like, oh, she did run for Congress.
00:15:04
Speaker
Wow. That's pretty amazing. Very impressive. And in like and a realm that I know nothing about, you know, as I mentioned in the episode and one that we could really benefit from.
00:15:19
Speaker
I do think it was very helpful for us. Yeah, I do keep going back to how she said, stick with the the platform that you feel most comfortable with and where your your people are, because.
00:15:34
Speaker
There is this sense that I know a lot of podcasts that I listen to are pushing themselves onto video because they're like, oh, well, video is the new place. And so we have to do things on video and YouTube and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not saying that's not a good idea.
00:15:48
Speaker
It's not something I engage with at all because I do want to be listening while I'm walking around doing other things. I'm not trying to watch things. But that made me think like, oh, is that something we'll eventually have to do? you know Or TikTok, have no interest in.
00:16:06
Speaker
It's overwhelming. And I feel like it's so easy to do TikTok poorly. and there's so much content out there that it's like, you don't need to be adding more.
00:16:19
Speaker
That's not good. So I really did like feeling that professional advice that it's okay not to try to get everywhere.
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I really like that advice. And it made me think also, because we've talked about starting A newsletter to accompany the podcast and that that's an area that I feel like is something that I'm interested in, like the written word and all that kind of thing. And that maybe our listeners would appreciate because I know some of them.
00:16:58
Speaker
my mom as one of them, one of our, you know, major fans, ah doesn't get the notifications that an episode is out. So if she got it to her email, she'd be like on it, you know?
00:17:14
Speaker
so so that made me think like podcasts is really your area of expertise. And I'm getting to know you know, that whole genre but if we do the newsletter then that would be i could have some knowledge there and and get into depth on that a little more marries so nicely with so many of your interests in the writing that you already do.
00:17:44
Speaker
it just makes perfect sense. Yeah. And of course, I'll keep on learning how to do this whole podcasting thing. um I googled like how to do podcasting. i That's not the wording I didn't mean to do, like how to do podcasting good. But yeah.
00:18:04
Speaker
But yeah, there's a lot of things that I would never know to do And maybe we should think about doing those things. So also, if anybody has suggestions for us, please let us know.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yes. And this is a good time for us to say, and please tell your friends and family about the show and ask them to listen. And give us a ah rating on your podcast app of choice if you'd like.
00:18:34
Speaker
And if it's high rate. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All you one star raiders, you can stop listening right now. Should we talk about what the homework was?
00:18:48
Speaker
And as a note, Patty and I are actually going to do the homework in this episode.
Vision Boards and Future Planning
00:18:53
Speaker
So she gave us a lot of good advice throughout and then left us with the advice to focus on one platform and get really good at it. But then also she mentioned ah ted Talk about a vision board.
00:19:08
Speaker
So... We Googled that information and then decided on the one that we would watch. And i was partially biased because it was ah patty with an eye just like me.
00:19:25
Speaker
um And it's Draw Your Future, the TED Talk Rainier. And it's Patty Dabrowski. Dabrowski.
00:19:36
Speaker
Dabrowalski? Dabrowalski. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get that extra one. Patty Dabrowalski. Yeah. And I was partial to that one because a lot of the comments said, I did this and then my dreams came true.
00:19:52
Speaker
And so I want to know if that's like the the power of this type of vision board. Yeah, and it is amazing because it's, as you were mentioning before we started recording, it's 10 minutes and 30-something seconds. Like, it's not a long, drawn-out, oh my gosh, okay, there's so much that I need to learn and so many steps. It's really pretty simple. And it's also like 13 years old, I think, which just also shows the wisdom is there.
00:20:31
Speaker
But yeah, you're right. It's like, I'm admitted to the law school of my dreams. I have a close circle of best friends.
00:20:41
Speaker
I guess nobody nobody's going to go on there and be like, my life's the same as it used
00:20:50
Speaker
be. The basic concept is you draw your current state. And then you draw your desired new reality and you make that part look really cool and pretty and colorful.
00:21:03
Speaker
And then there's three bold steps to get from your current state to the new reality, which are see it, believe it, and act on it.
00:21:15
Speaker
And think part of the, the major part of the concept is like not only the drawing it out, which she says adds to it it like your brain emits serotonin and um oxytocin when you draw things and you dream.
00:21:32
Speaker
But also then having a symbol of your future reality that you want and having it somewhere where you can see it regularly. And that part resonates with me because i have so many dreams that I've forgotten about because i didn't have them available for me to see constantly.
00:21:55
Speaker
And I really enjoy that it's the things that you want is what you're drawing as opposed to here, don't do this, don't do that, don't do that. It kind of reminds me of, had you gotten into The Secret at all back when that was a thing?
00:22:11
Speaker
I know about it. and Wait, that's the one where you... Okay, I don't remember the details. you kind of put it out into the universe and it becomes true. And it's like, like attracts like, and positive attracts positive and all of those things. But i remember one of the premises was you should never say, like oh I hope that there's no traffic because you're already saying traffic into the universe. And so instead it's like,
00:22:44
Speaker
The roads will be free and clear, you know, so it's kind of focusing on what you do want versus getting away from what you don't want. But as predicted and as I've run into in a couple of our episodes with homework, I have a lot of resistance to trying to imagine what could be something and even reflecting on what is so but i but i i did try to start so i'm glad that we're going to be doing some of it together yes yes i think that'll that'll help we can build our shared desired new reality but i'm curious like in what ways does the resistance show up like are you like do it for a minute and then you're like
00:23:36
Speaker
I gotta coach a volleyball game. Yeah. Let me do that instead. Yeah. Finding. Yeah, exactly. Like, um, postponing, procrastinating, finding other things to do instead, or kind of keeping it really surface, you know, like even the drawing that I had done for my current reality, i was like, well, I could, I could draw myself at my desk at work.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah. but That's accurate. And then were there other things? I do have to say, like, I loved that she said you didn't have to be a good artist. And um I'm not.
00:24:16
Speaker
But really like the fluff of my dog that is the pile at my feet. I it's really cute. That is very much like him. I think that's a good picture. Very cute.
00:24:35
Speaker
Predictably, i have like the opposite type of tendency. Yeah. Where so often I'm hanging out with people or hanging out with Adam, I'm like, let's talk about our dreams.
00:24:49
Speaker
like should we Should we talk about the future? but What are your resolutions? God.
00:24:58
Speaker
That's so fun. Kind of like a little overboard. You get the expense of the present moment.
00:25:06
Speaker
But that's the fun of it, right? They say the best part of a vacation is the planning and anticipating it versus the doing it. And so, yeah, why not just think about and plan for the future, even if it's not going to come true?
00:25:25
Speaker
Well, and mean And I'm not saying I didn't mean it. Yeah. Like, let's let's talk about that.
00:25:33
Speaker
What's that thought about? Never going to happen, you loser. yeah i totally didn't mean it like that, but like that there's fun in um daydreaming. Like it doesn't have to be a realistic daydream even so. But whereas this exercise, yes, is intended to be your goal that you are going to achieve.
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah. Or like my niece, Elise said, when Adam said something about live your best life, she said, i only have one life.
00:26:06
Speaker
So maybe we can achieve all our dreams, or at least try in this life. Very very deep. very deep And what a great outlook.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yes. I love for that. That is really deep. And like, yes, what a great way to approach it. and only have one. Yep. Kids.
00:26:30
Speaker
She, you know, yeah, she's going to be like the next Liz Lemon, but she can have it all. Whereas Liz Lemon just thought, she you know, hoped she could have it all.
Maintaining Enthusiasm and Community Building
00:26:41
Speaker
Well, okay. So then current state, if we were to draw our current... podcast state what would it be i feel like it would be us chatting with people right and enjoying it and you know like 12 followers on instagram and um Which is totally fine because that's that's great and we're going to step up the Instagram and the blue sky game, I assume, and some point once we hire a social media person.
00:27:29
Speaker
and And about like what, 30 listeners per episode. We've got wow like two listens from Russia.
00:27:42
Speaker
One listen from the Philippines. Yes. We had one from Argentina this past. We did? Yeah, which I was like, o And another country that I had never heard of. It's like Oman, O-M-A-N, I believe.
00:27:57
Speaker
And then we also had somebody in New Zealand. So those tro those bots are getting around. But if any of those listeners are real people, please come.
00:28:08
Speaker
get in touch reach out yeah i love new zealand i've never been to argentina but i would love to go yeah yeah i've never been to either one so yeah we've got okay probably like close to 500 listens for the past almost year right okay and then we've been really good about being consistent with our schedule you know putting out every two weeks And then for the desired new reality, I wonder if or anything else with the current status library home. Yeah, right.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah. Although Charlotte's in her home set up now. whoop i just set, yeah, set things up to be professional in my office.
00:28:56
Speaker
So Janine is here listening. Janine's my dog for anybody who doesn't know that. yeah i'm just I just realized I'm writing. I should be drawing.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yes, draw. I'm drawing. Okay. I do often feel like one of the anxieties ah about the current setup is running out of people. And I, largely because you do most of that heavy lifting of supplying guests.
00:29:28
Speaker
So that's one of the things that I'm like, Oh my gosh, how are we going keep that up long term? Yeah, luckily I have no shame and asking or very little shame in asking people to be on.
00:29:44
Speaker
The other day we were in Albuquerque at an anniversary party. was talking to this lady who's in her seventies and very, very into pickleball.
00:29:55
Speaker
And I mentioned the podcast and she was like, Oh, that's not for me, but I just met her. So missed out on that, but ah'll keep asking people. Yeah. And I think there's no there's no limit to the number of random interesting things that people are into.
00:30:19
Speaker
It's so true. And there's always going to be new stuff. And so that's something that could happen. But then we just evolve with the times.
00:30:30
Speaker
And all right. Anything else with the present state?
00:30:35
Speaker
I don't think so. Ooh, one thing is we both have jobs that we kind of fit things around. So maybe there's like a desk here too.
00:30:49
Speaker
yeah I'll put like my other laptop. All right, and then the desired new reality. think part of this would be like the mission for the podcast if we have one or like a vision.
00:31:06
Speaker
Right. So I read this article that's in The Atlantic, and it's about this bird watching documentary. Mm-hmm. where i have not watched it yet, but I do want to watch it. These two guys just decide to start bird watching and they use this app called eBird and they they follow, I think it's like a whole year where they're trying to to see as many species as possible.
00:31:36
Speaker
And they're really into it But then kind of along the way, it starts becoming more about the app and how people a lot of people start doing it for the app. And it's one of those, any app um nowadays, where you get badges for and doing a certain amount or you have like leaderboards and that kind of thing.
00:32:00
Speaker
And yeah. And so it becomes more about The person who wrote the article, we'll have to link to it because it's an interesting article, talks about it like those, what is it? Some sort of a wasp that lays eggs inside a caterpillar and then the eggs turn into larva and they eat the caterpillar From the inside out, but they leave the internal organs going for as long as possible to keep the host alive.
00:32:32
Speaker
And so it's almost like the app is controlling the person. And it looks like they love bird watching, but they're actually puppet of the app. I mean, maybe not puppet, but... What in an amazing metaphor is that, would you call that?
00:32:50
Speaker
Or yeah visual or whatever. Oh, ah my... Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it makes it seem so sinister. Yeah, which is. it's It's like something that was straightforward enjoyment of nature.
00:33:11
Speaker
It turns into... something that's like you're being led by something that you're not in control of even i mean i guess you could get rid of it entirely but if you're in the app it's i don't know how to say this uh yeah essentially it's it's you're the host for the app and we are we're like that with all you know with lots of stuff on the phone Yes.
00:33:40
Speaker
Well, even i listened to an interview about a book that somebody had just published that's all about gambling and like, but online sports gambling and how it's becoming more and more popular everywhere. So all that to say, there are so many things that are built into an app or gambling, you know, which also has an app that's intended not just to do the one thing, but to get you hooked, right? Or even the scroll nature of Instagram. It's like, okay, let's just, how do you keep people to just keep scrolling?
00:34:19
Speaker
Whereas if you have to, it takes the behavior that they know are addicting, and adds that in. So gamifying, having a leaderboard, badges that you need to get, or, oh, here, let's give you live updates to the score within the app where you just placed a bet so that you'll continue to check your bet and then make new bets and adjust bets and, you know, like all of that where you're just then totally hooked.
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah. And so part of what I'm thinking is it seeing like a vision for a reality is because originally I had thought like, like one of the titles for the podcast that I had thought about was pure enthusiasm because we are basically interested in people's just pure enthusiasm for things.
00:35:10
Speaker
And so I would love it if we were able to continue to promote people just being into stuff and and sharing like their enthusiasm for stuff with other people, which is what we're doing, and and getting to try it out and it not mattering if you're an expert or the best. It's it's about how much do you love it?
00:35:36
Speaker
Can I understand why you love it? And building that part of, you know, hobbies and interests. huh That's such a good point. And also, like, you listen sometimes to podcasts that, like, I loved Once Upon a Time and a couple years in or whatever, they kind of lose even the joy for doing the podcast and you can feel it, you know, like it, it, ah it changes the content and it's not as enjoyable to listen to.
00:36:08
Speaker
So it's kind of like on both ends, both the guests we're bringing on, but then for us as well to continue to have that pure enthusiasm for the process and the, and the content.
00:36:22
Speaker
True. Yeah. So that it's like people and their love for this stuff, but then us and our like love for seeing people geek out on things.
00:36:34
Speaker
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. All right. I'm drawing pictures of us being like, yay. and And guests being like, woohoo.
00:36:46
Speaker
And I put pure enthusiasm. i put it in a cloud and I colored it blue. And it's got an one exclamation point for real, you know, just like this means business.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yes. where did My sister. ah Sorry, real quick. um My sister sees students. And so there was one student years ago that was telling her like a story and she was like, and so I texted back, but blah, blah, blah, period, period, period.
00:37:21
Speaker
and and I was like that's an ellipse like something totally like instead of so he or she's thinking it means like no done done done instead of like done done done
00:37:42
Speaker
Anyways. um Okay. Yes. What else? I think it would be fun. Like I i love the idea of there being like a community of listeners. So having a way like you were mentioning with the newsletter or something where those people can connect about their interests or just about their the through line that that might interest all of those people in us.
00:38:09
Speaker
And the content we're putting out. Yeah, I totally agree. Because I think that there's too many places right now to comment. And those places would all remain. But if we had one centralized location, then it's not like, oh, is it the Instagram? Or is it the Spotify comments?
00:38:29
Speaker
Or is it Blue Sky? We can have those for people who like those, but then have one central location where you know, that that's to that's the first place to go yeah I love your uncle Jim asked a question of Ivy in the comments and then Ivy could respond back you know so even that like where they were able to have a conversation about a topic yeah i think that would be great too
00:39:00
Speaker
I'm drawing people at it. Yes, me too. Okay. bunch What are you drawing? A bunch of people with talking lines at each other. Oh, that's good. i was drawing two people for now at a really chunky table having like a drink or something.
00:39:20
Speaker
And then I'll draw more. Another loftier goal, but, and then this, oh, we didn't set a timeline. Is this, this is like in a year or something?
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, let's do a year. Yeah. Okay. So another one is strengthening democracy. Yeah. yeah Yeah.
00:39:45
Speaker
A year from now. Let's do that. I'm going to draw. Oh, and so I told you after I was like listening to last week's episode to edit, it I was like, oh, my God, I kept referring to the thing that my mom is wearing as a safety pin, but it's actually paperclip.
00:40:06
Speaker
That's what they used. In World War II? Yes. Yes. Though. So that's what she's been wearing, um though. She was wearing safety pins.
00:40:17
Speaker
Maybe during the first Trump administration to show that you were safe person for largely like Muslim individuals that were feeling persecuted at that time.
00:40:32
Speaker
All that to say, sorry, got it wrong. I almost said it again. Paperclip. And I'm drawing a paperclip because as we were talking about with Elena, like the importance of having some kind of symbol that is for the movement.
00:40:49
Speaker
And that movement is to save democracy. But would a safety pin be good because it's, well, okay.
00:40:59
Speaker
So a safety pin is for safety, but a paperclip is to hold things together. Yeah. Well, and should I be drawing it? Because if I draw it in the one year thing, does that mean we still need it?
00:41:16
Speaker
Yes, to sustain democracy and keep it going ah after we've saved it. Right. And then it's just like a neat little pile and you just, oh, we only need a safety pin to keep it together.
00:41:29
Speaker
But can it be a safety pin that looks kind of like that Microsoft Word safety pin guy who used to offer? Paper clip. Yes. Clippy. Oh, yeah. Clip. Paper.
Balancing Success with Mission and Values
00:41:41
Speaker
Clippy. Okay. So we could call it like, can we interest you any? Or...
00:41:48
Speaker
her um Interesty. I don't know. it's We're workshopping. We're figuring it out. I do think it's so interesting that we're both calling it um paper clips so safety. but They're the same, right? One is dangerous and one's not. but
00:42:07
Speaker
And isn't it wild? Like, did your parents ever do the um cloth diapers when you were a kid where they were like, we're going to do cloth diapers because they would use safety pins. It's like on a wiggly baby and through cloth that's like unknown how deep it is. Okay. Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
That's true. Those big ass safety pins. Yeah. With ducks on them. I'd be into the paper clip because I do have an irrational fear of things that are sharp and knives, which are also sharp.
00:42:42
Speaker
Pointy and sharp things. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to draw a clippy. Okay. And I'm just going to put interesty. i I don't know why I cannot draw a paper clip. It looks like a like a cinnamon roll.
00:42:56
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, it does. Mine, too. Okay. I do love cinnamon rolls, though. Oh, my God. Maybe our symbol can be a cinnamon roll. um Okay.
00:43:08
Speaker
I had a thought. um Oh, yes. so Okay. Okay. Merch. Oh, so like merch. I get it. I get it. I get it. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we're going to cut out how we got to that and just say merch.
00:43:25
Speaker
So now aren't you guys curious? How did they get to it? Because I've had people ask me about merch and that means like two people, but still, that's cool. Yeah.
00:43:37
Speaker
I am in my t-shirt phase, like where I'm buying t-shirts everywhere I go. And so, yeah, I feel that very much. Okay. Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
I'm going to draw your face on a t-shirt right now. Okay. Eating noodles. Oh, that's a good one. Chugging eggnog. Oh, God. I think part of it is I just don't even like eggnog. Judy loves it, but yeah. Oh, love it.
00:44:05
Speaker
So... This is good for you. Okay. A bowl of noodles. Here we go. And one's going to be coming out of your mouth. A noodle.
00:44:16
Speaker
What if we have a symbol for our future that gets really confusing and then we start headed towards a future that we weren't really planning, but it's because of our poor artwork?
00:44:28
Speaker
Well, no, our poor no, no, no. Because she said we don't have to be good drawers. So we just have to be, I'm going to put below this merch. So it's clear. we just have to know what it means. and Yes, exactly.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, like if somehow I became addicted to noodles, which actually I am. but Became? Yeah, I became a noodle. I'm going to draw an Instagram feed with lots of hearts on it, and it's ours and fun posts.
00:44:57
Speaker
And can you draw on the Instagram feed that somehow suddenly it gets bought by somebody who's not Mark Zuckerberg?
00:45:09
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Like Mark Ruffalo buys it. Okay. Mark Ruffalo's in
00:45:20
Speaker
As You Need It, Graham. We don't need it to be Instagram, so we'll call it As You Need Mark Ruffalo. or As You Want It. As You Want It, Graham.
00:45:31
Speaker
How about um What You Need Will Appear, Graham? Okay. Okay. What you need will appear, Graham.
00:45:42
Speaker
Be still and what you need will appear, Graham.
00:45:47
Speaker
By the way, that's a reference to a poem that I just learned about today. So we can also post that. is this part of your poetry? yeah I started ah the poetry therapy certification program.
00:46:01
Speaker
And so this was like a... um like a continuing education class that I did and one of the poems was called Lost and I think it's like David Wagoner or somebody um that we could post the information about it but it talks about the forest and if you are still the forest like knows where you are will find you which is like very good life advice but not if you're in a forest so don't
00:46:32
Speaker
and I mean, I guess you are supposed to stay still and somebody will find you. But not if they're looking for you. yeah Yeah. If they're not looking for you, maybe you should keep going. Right.
00:46:44
Speaker
Like that woman who crashed. Vulevich. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Way to go. How did you remember that?
00:46:54
Speaker
I don't know. But as soon as you said it, I started thinking about the stream and how you follow it downstream upstream. Down downstream. I think down.
00:47:07
Speaker
Wow. That was impressive. Well, I talk to my uncle relatively regularly, and Vesna Vulovich does come up from time to time. so I was about to be like, but that doesn't mean that you that you guys talk about that. And then I was like, well, probably actually. He does these like – oh, he did this short little thing that's like – a collection of cartoons that answer your questions about falling he did and sent to me. So it appears in these kinds of things.
00:47:40
Speaker
I was just telling someone about him because we had a book that's going to be published where their brothers and the one brother was doing the illustrations. And when they delivered the manuscript, it was in like a font that the illustrator had drawn. And someone was like, surely that's not like really they like drew the whole thing. I'm sure maybe they drew like a whole alphabet and then used that to create it. i was like,
00:48:06
Speaker
I know an author who did write his own, like, in his own font. I'm like, it's possible. It's so cool. Yeah. It's like unbelievable, but very cool.
00:48:18
Speaker
Such a labor.
00:48:23
Speaker
Oh, I'm going to draw us together. So we see maybe doing something, going to see like an interest, experiencing an interest together or like having an in-person time where we get to see each other, but then also um record or whatever.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah. An experiential in-person homework assignment and recording. That's interesting to think about because think that a lot of, i mean, wonder what the missions of other podcasts are. I'm sure like some of them, the and doesn't exist anymore, but how to save a planet, their missions in their title.
00:49:11
Speaker
h And then some, I mean, some, it might be purely to gain listeners. But I would guess that you can't sustain it very well if that's your only goal. So lot of times it's got to be looking more into a particular area, having fun, just getting to chat with interesting people.
00:49:35
Speaker
But I do feel like the whole like gaining listeners and growing bigger and bigger is often a part of that. And so I wonder, what are...
00:49:46
Speaker
What's part of the vision that's not solely based on numbers? Like we talked about creating community, highlighting enthusiasm and excitement and interest.
00:49:59
Speaker
Saving democracy. Saving democracy. Connecting people people who have similar interests or who do not have similar interests at all. Mm-hmm.
00:50:09
Speaker
getting people into things that they might never have known anything about, making more people think about accessibility and making hobbies and everything as accessible as possible.
00:50:24
Speaker
i mean, that's probably pretty good, right? Like in terms of covering a lot of ground. Yeah. How's it feeling to envision the future? Okay.
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah. It's like I have so many feelings that I can't totally even um pinpoint. But yeah, I even feel i notice myself kind of being a little guarded about it. Okay, well, that's enough.
00:50:57
Speaker
Don't. I don't know. How about for you? Don't get grandiose. like Yeah. Don't get greedy.
00:51:06
Speaker
No, that one I'm totally cool with. But that whole paperclip merch thing, that that's gone too far.
00:51:17
Speaker
How does it feel to you? Is this grandiose enough? i think I think it's grandiose enough. I guess I don't...
00:51:28
Speaker
The whole idea of getting like really big and having a ton of listeners and doing all sorts of things is that it, it creates, I don't know, like you have less control over your calendar. You have less control over a lot of things. So yeah,
00:51:49
Speaker
so It would be cool, but I don't know that it's the reason for doing this. Right. Right. It's not like the ultimate goal. I'm drawing a calendar.
00:52:01
Speaker
Yeah. Having more control over our schedules in general. that does come with like some financial security though.
00:52:11
Speaker
Yeah. i I feel what you're saying though, of not wanting the growth to be the goal. Mm-hmm.
00:52:24
Speaker
for those other reasons that you were alluding to earlier of like, oh my gosh, what if we draw something and it's not, you know, and it ends up getting us somewhere we don't want to be. It's the same way in like, oh, it's really big, but that's not keeping all of the elements of what we want the show itself to be and the content to be.
00:52:46
Speaker
And so even if right now it's only like 30 people that are listening, It's closer to what we want than if it were to blow up beyond our control and just become something else.
00:53:00
Speaker
Because it was interesting, even when Elena was asking, like, how do you feel when you. say, speak out on your podcast. And before I got the concept that she was saying, like, speak your truth and all of that, I was thinking more like, oh, it was really trippy when the first few episodes were actually live. And then we would record because I was like, crap, I've heard myself now. And oh, my God, people are listening to this, even if it's just our parents and some of some friends and whatever, but that it does kind of alter
00:53:34
Speaker
the way in which I feel, at least initially, was able to continue to show up authentically. And so just thinking about that growth would then be like, oh but how are these people going to feel or how is that going to go? And there are just so much more that you have to kind of take into consideration. It's totally weird to to hear yourself over and over and over again and then talk and still be hearing yourself while you're talking.
00:54:03
Speaker
It's really weird. But I would agree, at least not growth for growth's sake. Yeah. Growth is fine as a byproduct of maintaining the mission and values that we have, but not saying, got to get big because that's what you do.
00:54:23
Speaker
That's what we do in America. i mean, it is what we do. Oh, um one last thing is Over the course of like the past year, we've been on an ever-evolving journey of sound quality, i would say, for so many different factors. but
00:54:47
Speaker
We appreciate everybody who has listened in spite of varying levels. Sound quality issues, many of which have to do with the library and all of the equipment that gets stolen from the library.
00:55:04
Speaker
um library not being available and then you just randomly record on your laptop. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So to continue that journey and have a more consistent level of quality.
00:55:19
Speaker
is is on the list for me as well. That's such a great point. So Patty, did you do this? ah You said you drew your current state. Did you do this like then also for yourself?
00:55:32
Speaker
Future state? I only drew the current state.
00:55:38
Speaker
And then I was like, mm-hmm.
00:55:43
Speaker
I think I need to make dinner. Yeah, but I am thinking, I think it would be a really cool thing to do. are you ah Do you think you'll do it for your personal, what aspect of your personal life?
00:55:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think I might just do it for my whole life, just generally. ah Kind of the way that she does it in the the TED Talk, because have a lot of things written down, and those are like things on a whiteboard that are...
00:56:11
Speaker
projects and priorities, but i don't have any sort of future vision or plan that I've done this type of thing tons of times before. but like I said, who knows where those drawings are? Who knows where that stuff is? It's in some notebook somewhere.
00:56:29
Speaker
And so and might do it and and put it up somewhere where I can see it That's cool. Yeah. And just even when you said that, it reminded me, like I've done vision boards too. But what I did like that Elena even alluded to is this is not just cutting things out of a magazine or whatever, but that it's you drawing it yourself. So to, again, your point of what did you mention that the serotonin and those other benefits that you get from drawing?
00:56:59
Speaker
yeah Oxytocin. Oxytocin. And i what did I call it? No, serotonin and oxytocin. Oh, okay. So you're correct. I was just adding that it's also oxytocin.
00:57:10
Speaker
Okay. Did you draw one too? Okay.
00:57:15
Speaker
did it's not great maybe we can pick our best elements and then put them together yeah and going to take make a nice but then maybe we can make a symbol that comes from that drawing like something with the paper clip yes i love it cool so yeah we will post that so that people can see and Do this exercise for themselves as well.
00:57:42
Speaker
And we'd love to hear what you did and see what you drew if you want to share it. And then we want to see if those dreams come true a year from now.
00:57:55
Speaker
We want to know, is this right this for real? And we also want you guys to stay interesting. And stay interested. Bye. Bye.
00:58:06
Speaker
Thanks for listening to today's episode. Please subscribe, comment, and like the podcast. Follow us on Blue Sky Social at CanWeInterestYouIn. Send us an email at CanWeInterestYouIn at gmail.com.
00:58:17
Speaker
And join us next time.