We talk with Caleb Avraham, social worker turned lawyer, about his passion—woodworking! How does a kid who grew up in the city of Chicago get into woodworking? It all started with…a toilet.

First, we start with check-ins:

Charlotte enters a pitch slam.
Patti goes to a Savannah Bananas game.
Caleb’s other love is mountain climbing.

Then, Caleb shares the inciting incident that kicked off his love affair with woodworking over nine years ago.

We talk all about woodworking, including:

-How does one learn how to woodwork? (Hint: it’s YouTube. It’s always YouTube)
-Woodworking vs wood turning (see Episode 8 - Can Marielle Interest You in Wood Turning [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-can-marielle-interest-you-in-wood-turning/id1786276784?i=1000700106250]?) vs carpentry
-The artistic side of woodworking; coming up with the design, symbolic meanings, the function of the piece
-Purple wood!
-How woodworking provides a creative and physical outlet for Caleb’s career as a lawyer
-How woodworking cultivates mindfulness (especially if you don’t want to cut a finger off) and can be a workout and sauna visit in one
-What’s the best compliment a woodworker can get?

Homework: Make a box!

Bonus: How is making a box like making an omelette like trying a DUI case?

Check out our Instagram or Blue Sky for images of Caleb's pieces (links below).

Links/References:
Jonathan Katz-Moses YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXBNF-A7QlYT3tT-B9N4ElA
Paul Sellers YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Paul.Sellers/videos
Rockler: https://www.rockler.com/

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

43- Can Caleb Interest You In...Woodworking?

Patti and Charlotte debrief their excellent homework assignment, given to them by Tyler Hurula, Senior Editor of South Broadway Press, the Denver based publisher of “weird, gorgeous, and revolutionary poetry.”

They kick off the episode with a new check-in question—what’s been interesting you recently?
-Patti discusses her foray into Reiki.
-Charlotte waxes poetic (hehe) about Busch Light Apple.

At 17:28 they get into the homework--to read South Broadway Press’s Pushcart Prize nominated poems (link below).

Patti gives context on the Pushcart Prize.

They then discuss each of the nominated poems:

Because Every Girl Has a Pomegranate Poem in Her, by Monica Fuglei (19:54)
One Foot in the New Year, by Leo Rose Rodriguez (21:50)
Geranium, Aspen Everett (24:00)
they say the rice won’t grow without blood, by Sreeja Naskar (26:00)
Scribe, by T. Lydia McKinney (28:44)
I Do Not Care if You Are Across the Country, by Wheeler Light (33:07)

Charlotte and Patti talk about the process of reading these poems and ways to enrich the experience.
Poetry Unbound podcast and their poetry anthologies get a big shout out from Charlotte.
Then, they talk Accessibility and the LOIS.
Finally, Charlotte and Patti give themselves a(nother) poetry assignment.

Links/References:
Tyler Hurula: https://www.tylerhurula.com/
South Broadway Press: https://southbroadwaypress.org/
South Broadway Press Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/southbroadwaypress/
South Broadway Press Pushcart Nominees: https://southbroadwaypress.org/2025/10/07/2026-pushcart-prize-nominations/
Busch Light Apple Locator: https://www.busch.com/locator
Pushcart Prize: https://www.pushcartprize.org/
Poetry Unbound: https://onbeing.org/series/poetry-unbound/
The Haiku Year, by Jim Hamilton and Charlotte Hamilton: https://www.lulu.com/shop/jim-hamilton-and-charlotte-hamilton/the-haiku-year-a-correspondence/paperback/product-1zk5j92k.html?srsltid=AfmBOoraiZR4wTv_Vjigu2ADXScmnzcWArevu2NfrE6zohbf4fFFMowC&page=1&pageSize=4

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

42- Poetry and South Broadway Press...The Follow-Up

Tyler Hurula joins Patti and Charlotte to talk all things poetry! Tyler is the Senior Editor of South Broadway Press and “The Pinkest Poet in Denver, Colorado.”

First, check-ins! We talk pink hair, squirrels, and Andrea Gibson.

At 11:43 we get into Tyler’s interest, poetry and Tyler's role as Senior Editor of South Broadway Press.

Topics we cover:

-The Inciting Incident(s) - how Andrea Gibson (there can never be enough talk of Andrea Gibson, true fact), the pandemic, and the “Poems That Don’t Suck” community played a role in Tyler’s love of poetry.

-Finding poetry community, both locally and online, which Tyler says can be literally life-saving

-First drafts and being brave enough to write something that sucks

-Editing, and the evolution a poem can go through (it’s both a sprint AND a marathon)

-South Broadway Press, the Denver, Colorado, based publisher of poetry that is “weird, gorgeous, and revolutionary”

-Trends in poetry (including Button Poetry, poets reading at inaugurations)

-Poetry therapy and the use of poetry in supporting mental health

Then Tyler gives us our homework, to read the South Broadway Press Pushcart Prize nominated poems (link below if you want to read along).

And finally, we talk about “Too Pretty for Plain Coffee,” Tyler’s book of poetry, and Tyler’s favorite coffee order.

Links/References:
Tyler Hurula: https://www.tylerhurula.com/
South Broadway Press: https://southbroadwaypress.org/
South Broadway Press Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/southbroadwaypress/
Homework link: https://southbroadwaypress.org/2025/10/07/2026-pushcart-prize-nominations/
“When I Get My Shit Together,” Mieka Pauley song: https://youtu.be/yOcH0tv9EdQ?si=vutab1vQBKGWZejl
“Love Letter From the Afterlife,” Andrea Gibson poem/performance: https://andreagibson.org/events
“Poems That Don’t Suck” Workshops, Megan Falley: https://www.meganfalley.com/workshops
Beyond the Veil Press: https://beyondtheveilpress.com/
Button Poetry YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ButtonPoetry
Too Pretty for Plain Coffee, Tyler Hurula: https://www.wayfarerbookstore.com/product/too-pretty-for-plain-coffee-by-tyler-hurula/206

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

41- Can Tyler Interest You In...Poetry and South Broadway Press?

Let the Can We Interest You In…? book club commence! Charlotte and Patti have read A Family Affair, the debut novel of Marissa Joy Leotaud (multi-talented recurring guest of the pod), and they give their verdict in this follow-up episode.

Spoiler alert: they loved it!

And, there will be some mild plot spoilers in this episode.

First, Patti and Charlotte begin the episode in media res (like, in the middle of a conversation), for that reality show vibe.

Then, they catch each other up on the recent goings-on of summer.

Patti does a mini Can We Interest You In…? about 90-Day Fiance.

Charlotte recounts a supremely bad COVID-era Zoom date.

At 29:30 they get into the discussion of the novel, A Family Affair.

Topics and themes discussed include:

-Characterization and emotional complexity of all the characters, particularly the three main characters, Joyce, Michael, and Ava

-Mother/daughter relationships

-Marriage and all the miscommunication

-Family secrets

-Sex! - how the scenes propel the story, gender stereotypes, power and control

-Is it possible to be truly “caught up in the moment”?

-The Climax

Then we talk accessibility and the Level of Integration Scale (LOIS)

Links:

A Family Affair: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0GHPYLT23/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

Marissa Joy Fiction Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marissajoyfiction?utm_source=qr

TikTok:

https://www.tiktok.com/@marissajoyfiction?_r=1&_t=ZT-96v4ne1cuXF

Substack:

https://open.substack.com/pub/marissajoyy

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

40- Can We Interest You In...A Book Club?

Our resident expert on all things underground metal, Steve Klatt, comes back to debrief our homework. As the former head of the Colorado chapter of the New York Death Militia, he brings unique insight that helps him answer all our many (many!) questions.

But first, we check in on how we’re *really* doing.

Then, at 10:55 we talk about our homework.

The Homework: 
-Patti rocked out at a Havok show at Fubar Lounge, in St. Louis. We learn about the new persona she invented for herself and whether she joined the mosh pit or not.

-Charlotte comes close to greatness (or disaster) at Metal Karaoke at Black Sky Brewing in Denver. She also tells us what metal subgenre she is based on multiple personality tests.

Steve gives us the underground metal insider tips, like:

The band uniforms
Mosh pit etiquette
Subgeners of mosh pits: pogo pit, violent circles, “crowd killing”
Head banging protocol
The darker side of metal

We talk accessibility - is the metalhead community still mostly white men?

What subgenre of metal are we? We take a personality test.

And finally, the Level of Integration Scale. How metal do Charlotte and Patti plan to get, now that the homework is done?

Links/references:
https://uquiz.com/quiz/zcN6Da/what-subgenre-of-metal-are-you

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

39- Underground Metal: The Follow-Up

Content Warning: mention of sexual assault, references to violent images and band names

Our guest, Steve Klatt, takes us deep into the world of Underground Metal, including metal clubs, ALL the sub genres, the high school drama of metalheads, and more.

We kick things off with a check-in and learn more about Steve. 
At 10:00 we get into Steve’s interest, underground metal--defined as metal music from bands that don’t have a major record deal.

The Inciting Incident: how Steve went from loving hip hop as a teenager to becoming obsessed with metal. 

As the former president of a metal club - CODM, Colorado chapter of the New York Death Militia, he gives us the inside scoop on the drama of the metal world.
We learn what a metal club is, plus the three main missions of the CODM/NYDM.
He tells us about the controversy that ultimately led to his decision to leave the club.

We get into the favorite pastimes of metalheads:
Debating sub genres
Dumping on bands they hate (and we learn the band Steve loves to dump on!)

Also:
What even defines metal as a genre? (It's not what you think...unless you know a lot more than Charlotte and Patti about metal)
That time Steve played in a metal band at the Iowa county fair.
And…our very metal homework!

Links/references:
The Charismatic Voice: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCharismaticVoice
Black Sky Brewing (Denver): https://blackskydenver.com/


Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

38- Can Steve Interest You In...Underground Metal?

Marissa Joy Leotaud, of Can We Interest You In Erotica? fame, returns to tell us about her dramatic, fun, and sexy debut novel, A Family Affair. [https://www.amazon.com/Family-Affair-Marissa-Joy-Leotaud/dp/B0GHPYLT23] She tells us about how the novel started with a teenage pregnancy, how it was nurtured through writing classes and The Book Project, through The Lighthouse Writing Center in Denver, and how it all came together.

We hear about developments in Marissa’s life since she quit her job to pursue a creative life, and get some big surprises! We talk about the power of having overwhelming delusional faith in yourself and your dreams.

In our conversation, we talk all about writing, including:
The writing process (writing over the course of ten years, editing a million times, all of it)
The ego death of navigating the traditional publishing world
The healing journey of self-publishing and the path to publication day
Her family’s response to the book
Other upcoming creative projects

For Patti and Charlotte’ s homework, we’re going to (of course!) read A Family Affair and have our own mini book club. Join us if you’d like, and send us your reactions!

Buy the A Family Affair: https://www.amazon.com/Family-Affair-Marissa-Joy-Leotaud/dp/B0GHPYLT23

Follow Marissa:
Instagram: @marissajoyfiction
TikTok: @marissajoyfiction
Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/marissajoyy

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

37- Can Marissa Interest You In A Family Affair?

In this episode, Charlotte and Patti debrief the homework given to them by Laura Hartley, founder of the Scintilla Centre, coach for changemakers, and all around brilliant thinker.

First, we jump into our check-ins, and get updates on Charlotte’s journey to find an agent for her novel.

Then, the question: would you want to know when and how you were going to die?

Patti tells us about pool time with her (human) family, plus, her growing family of mini non-human animals.

Charlotte updates us on her half marathon experience and the absolute miracle she witnessed.

At about 25 mins, we get into the homework.

The Homework:
1. Notice every time you use the word “should.” Consider: What’s the story there? Is it true, does it benefit me, does it benefit others? What would happen if the story wasn’t true?
2. Notice your body at the same time. What does the “should” feel like? What comes up when you consider what would happen if the story wasn’t true?
3. Challenge your imagination. Ask yourself: Why not? What if? Let yourself dream.

Here are a few of the (American) cultural stories we interrogate:

If you’re passionate about something, you should try to be the best at it, you should try to monetize it.
Not everyone gets or deserves to have their basic needs met.
Bigger is better.

More is better.

Success has a static definition (money, numbers, etc)

We also discuss:

How the idea that anything could be possible can feel overwhelming, and consider whether that prevents us from dreaming up better ways of living.

Seeding ideas, rather than trying to “solve” everything.

Focusing on mindset and energy or approach.

Talking to kids as an entry point to questioning our assumptions.

Ways that we learn to discount our own intuition, and how can we can relearn how to trust ourselves.

Example: Action St. Louis, a grassroots organization that arose to combat the failures of the government in addressing tornado damage in North City, St. Louis.

Can we work within the literal system of capitalism without internalizing the cultural stories of capitalism?

Which industrial complexes benefit from which stories?

“Shoulds” that we actually should follow. (Warning: we go down some weird paths.)

Level of Integration Scores (LOIS). Ways to continue engaging in this work.

And, accessibility!

Website: https://scintillacentre.com/
Newsletter: https://www.scintillacentre.com/#newslettersignup
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/laura.h.hartley/
Action St. Louis: https://actionstl.org/

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

36- Cultural Systems/Stories and How They Live In Us: The Follow-Up

Our guest is Laura Hartley, founder of the Scintilla Centre, which offers classes, salons, and coaching for changemakers. She absolutely blows our minds with her interest—the ways we live out the stories of our cultural systems (even those we don’t align with or agree with). These include systems like capitalism and patriarchy, and stories about urgency and scarcity. She says we often forget our own power to make choices that don’t replicate these systems and that we can, instead, plant the seeds for something more just and regenerative. Yes, yes, yes!

Laura tells us about her inciting incident, which started with her work in climate activism. We hear how people trying to change the world can (and often do) end up mimicking the same energy and patterns of the systems they’re working against.  We learn how changemaking starts with doing the work as individuals, rooted in our bodies. She teaches us how to “notice the water” of the cultural systems and stories we’re living in, and how to interrogate these stories.

Along the (fascinating!) way, we get into all sorts of topics, like:

Countercultural ideas versus straight-up conspiracy theories.

The concept of "right relationship."
Ways we’re taught to turn against ourselves, and who benefits when we do this.
Making changemaking something beautiful, both born of longing and yet, rooted in reality.
Even “healthy” concepts such as mindfulness, fitness, and spirituality get highjacked by the capitalist story of “growth at all costs.”

Do the homework along with us! (Preferably all the time, forever and ever) Here’s the homework:

1. Notice when you use the word “should.” Consider: What’s the story there? Is it true, does it benefit me, does it benefit others? What would happen if the story wasn’t true?
2. Notice your body at the same time. What does the “should” feel like? What arises when you interrogate the story?
3. Challenge your imagination. Ask yourself: Why not? What if? Let yourself dream.

Website: https://scintillacentre.com/
Newsletter: https://www.scintillacentre.com/#newslettersignup
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/laura.h.hartley/

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com

35- Can Laura Interest You In...Cultural Systems/Stories and How They Live in Us?

In the follow-up to our episode about money-saving hacks and nesting with Becca Russo we get into the nitty gritty of how to save money, how to nest, and how to save money while nesting!

Patti and Charlotte start with a check-in. Check-in topics include:
A deep dive into naps.
Charlotte’s half-marathon training tips (they involve donuts and the Nike Run Club App)
Patti’s progress on her 2026 goal of learning to do an underwater flip kick.
Our etiquette anxiety in different sports.
Dog behavior
Going to the No Kings protest with Margot (who was featured in our episode on protest!)

At 28:00 we report back on our homework.
Patti shares her adventures in couponing;
Charlotte has been making use of credit card rewards.
We talk about the Space Doula quiz and go in depth into Patti’s results.

We talk about our nesting challenges, including how to follow through when you’re not a born nester.
We talk strategies for reducing analysis paralysis.
How many episodes in a row can Charlotte mention the man who's always on her mind--Vincent D’Onofrio from Law and Order: Criminal Intent?
Patti helps Charlotte do a root cause analysis into the clothing piles that impact her nesting.
We give ourselves assignments after the assignment and set a time for co-nesting to make sure we’ll do it.
We talk Trusted Housesitter as a money-saving tool.
And then we wrap things up with a discussion of accessibility and the LOIS scale!

Links:
https://spacedoula.com/
https://www.trustedhousesitters.com/

Logo design by Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: canweinterestyouin.com [http://canweinterestyouin.com/]

34- Money-Saving Hacks and Nesting: The Follow-Up