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Understanding Healthy Intimate Relationships a conversation with John Kenny – the Relationship Guy
9 Plays3 days ago
How to Attract and Create the Relationships that You Want and Need
John Kenny is known as the Relationship Guy, and the author of The People Programme.
He coaches people on how to find and create the positive intimate relationships that they want to have
In this episode of the Abeceder health and well-being podcast Fit For My Age, John Kenny discusses with host Michael Millward
- How human nature is to be in an intimate relationship
- Being in a relationship to fit in or fulfil the expectations of other people
- The influence of other friends and families in relationship building
- Working out what you want and need from a relationship
- Honesty and dishonesty in relationships
- Emotional intelligence
- Compromise and compliance in relationships
- The difference between, Doing it for me, doing it for you and doing it for us
- Changes in relationships
Find out more about Michael Millward and John Kenny at Abeceder.co.uk.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Guest Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to Fit For My Age, the health and wellbeing podcast from Abysida. I am your host, Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abysida.
00:00:18
Speaker
Today, my guest is John Kenny, the relationship guy.
Creating Podcasts with Zencastr
00:00:23
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, Fit For My Age is made on Zencastr.
00:00:30
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making podcasts so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code.
00:00:43
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:00:58
Speaker
Very importantly on Fit For My Age, we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
John Kenny's Journey to Relationship Coaching
00:01:05
Speaker
Today, my guest, who I met on matchmaker.fm, is John Kenny, which is an apt place to meet John Kenny, because John Kenny is the relationship guy.
00:01:17
Speaker
He's a relationship coach, the founder of Interpersonal Relationship Coaching. Essentially, John helps people create healthy, intimate relationships.
00:01:28
Speaker
John is based in London, the capital of the United Kingdom, and it's an expensive place to visit. Probably an expensive place for a first date as well. But whenever I visit London, I always make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where you can access trade prices on flights, hotels and holidays.
00:01:48
Speaker
You'll find a link and a membership discount code in the description. Now that I've paid the rent, it is time to make this episode of Fit for My Age. Hello John.
00:01:59
Speaker
Hi Michael, nice to be here with you. Thank you very much for joining me today, i really do appreciate it. Please could we start by you giving us a little short history of your career to date and I'm sure you never had a conversation with a careers teacher and had a discussion about becoming an intimate relationship coach, so how did that bit happen?
00:02:18
Speaker
I had no idea what I wanted to do actually as I was growing up. I i was an international athlete up until I was about 24, 25 That was my main aim to continue to do that. And then when that didn't happen, did a few bits and pieces and ended up trying to be a therapist, worked for the dna NHS and in private practice.
00:02:37
Speaker
In 2012, I trained to be a coach. And then in 2016, I have the NHS and shifted just into a coaching practice.
00:02:47
Speaker
And I decided to focus on relationships for two reasons, really.
Reasons for Focusing on Relationships
00:02:52
Speaker
Firstly, changing my own personal relationship experiences made such ah an impact on my overall sense of wellbeing that I wanted to help people to change how they experience relationships.
00:03:08
Speaker
Secondly, my time as a therapist and then in the early days of my coaching, relationships were probably 90% involved in why people were coming to therapy or coming to coaching in the first place.
00:03:20
Speaker
That's when relationships just sort of became my focus when I decided to to go out on my own as a coach. I suppose as human beings, we are all social.
Importance of Social Connections
00:03:30
Speaker
We're a social species.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yes. But do we have to be in a relationship? We have to be in a type of relationship with someone else. Like you said, we are social. We are connected. We are designed to connect. Our brain wants to connect.
00:03:43
Speaker
There are occasions when that's not the case, but we evolved as as a species that lived in groups. So if we're not in a connected space with people, then it can have a detrimental impact on lots of areas of our lives, emotionally, physically, mentally. I can see what you mean, that...
00:04:02
Speaker
As a human being, we are hardwired to interact with other people and have relationships with other people and make connections with other the people.
Personal Choice vs. Societal Expectations in Relationships
00:04:11
Speaker
At the same time, as the majority of people may be in some sort of intimate relationship or one-to-one type relationship, and if you if you don't want to, you don't have to. No, definitely not. It's all choice.
00:04:23
Speaker
know it's It's what's best for you in the long run. And if you are more content, more fulfilled, happier, living a life that doesn't involve ah a close intimate relationship, then no, that's the way to live your life.
00:04:37
Speaker
But like I said, on the whole, that's not what we're wired to do and wired to be. I can see that. I course to see that like some people don't want to, and I don't want anybody listening to feel as if they're excluded from the discussion.
00:04:51
Speaker
Do you work with more men or what or with more women? Majority, I would say probably women. I think women are have a tendency to be able to be more open to looking at their situation and wanting to do something about that. And I think there might be something to do with women having a tendency to be more relational than men as well.
00:05:11
Speaker
But over the last few years since I've been looking at helping people to achieve these healthy relationship spaces, I do get more and more men coming towards me looking for some help.
00:05:22
Speaker
Because part of me sort thinks that there's almost like an expectation of people that they will go to school, they'll start work, they'll find that significant other. They'll settle down.
00:05:34
Speaker
There'll be children. the normal thing in inverted commas to do is is this. Do people end up in relationships but because they want to fit in with other people who are having a relationship?
00:05:48
Speaker
I'm thinking a bit, you see, as with my ah HR professionals hat on. If we looked at a department within ah within an organization and one um woman became pregnant, we'd sit there and go like, well, now we're going to have a series of people in that that department becoming pregnant because it it becomes the thing to do. And within groups of friends, they're almost sort you don't want to be the last one who's single.
00:06:11
Speaker
You don't to be last one to find someone. This whole thing about it being the normal thing to do and people ending up in relationships that aren't exactly... the ideal relationships for them because they've wanted to fit in.
00:06:25
Speaker
Do you see that happening? I do. i do. Yes, it is. It is like like ah like you said, in that becomes as norm the that this is what's expected of you. This is what, this is what people have done in the past. And there is pressure sometimes, especially in the West is,
00:06:43
Speaker
A client recently that I finished working with and found himself in that kind of position. Actually, he was with somebody. He wanted to get engaged, but he was looking at a long engagement and just to make sure that they were completely compatible.
00:06:56
Speaker
But once they got engaged, everybody sort took over. And he found himself married within a year, had a child within two years. And he was like, well, what have I done? This is not what my plan was, but got caught in all the expectancy of now we're engaged. we need to arrange the wedding and everything else. And four or five years down the line, was like, I don't actually really want to be here and found it really difficult to reconcile that he he was in this position and wasn't happy at all.
00:07:23
Speaker
And it happens more often than we might think it happens. I've spoken to several people who have ended up having extramarital relationships for that reason too, kind of settled in their words for so for a relationship, for a situation that they really felt they had to rather than they really wanted to and eventually of rather than being able to kind of resolve this within the relationship they're in or within themselves have sought other relationships outside of that to try and sort of reconcile that or make there must be something else out there type of thing that maybe haven't given the relationship the opportunity it deserves to to to make it work.
00:08:02
Speaker
But it has been ah a theme that has come up upon on on a fair few occasions with clients in the past. It sounds as if one of the issues that youre having to deal with is people not being emotionally satisfied within ah relationship relationship.
Defining What You Want in a Relationship
00:08:18
Speaker
not actually working out what it was that they wanted from that relationship to begin with, what they would be looking for or what they might need in five years time and just fitting in.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah. And there's no thought of that longevity to, is this really what I want long-term? And most of the clients actually come to me now, if they're in this in the single space, one of the things I generally get them to do, and sometimes it's if they're in the relationship as well, depending on what the issues are,
00:08:46
Speaker
is to get them to think about what they want and what they need in a relationship and and to to focus on that because it generally isn't something that people come to to me, especially with an idea of what that is in the first place.
00:08:59
Speaker
They just know they want to be in a relationship, but they haven't really considered what the fundamental things that they want in somebody is. They have generally have a good list of what they don't want based on their previous experiences, but it isn't necessarily something that they've thought about what they do want.
00:09:14
Speaker
And And so I get them to really focus on that and hone down what it is they really want from a relationship and why they want it. Listening to you there made me think you'd been dating this person and everybody thinks that everything's ideal, but you've not been honest enough with yourself to work out what it is that you want from a relationship to actually then just make a decision about whether the other person who might have a shared interest with you or just be from the same town as you is the right person for you.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah, again, it's not something that's widely ah spoken about. I mean, like you see, you go to school, then they'll talk to you about your career and what do you want for your career. But no one sort of takes you to one side and says, okay, so if you're considering having a relationship when you leave school, what kind of relationship would you like?
00:10:03
Speaker
Because maybe we're not emotionally or cognizantly aware enough to be able to pinpoint that at that point anyway, but it would be a ah nice space. I think it would be a good and positive space to get people to think about it a little bit more before they end up getting into a relationship, like you say, just so they know they've got themselves into the kind of relationship they want to be in working out what the partnership is going to be i suppose is part of the equation as well friend who told his wife that you know if you give me a happy home i will make sure that the hope there's never a bill unpaid so what he was meaning was like
00:10:41
Speaker
I'm going to work hard if I can come home and you've managed the house so that we both have a role to play in raising our family. And we know what we're doing.
00:10:54
Speaker
yeah We know what we're each is doing to create a family that is going to be constructive and positive. People don't have those sorts of conversations with their prospective partner. Do many people have those conversations with themselves?
00:11:07
Speaker
I would imagine not. I know I definitely didn't. this is a Very, very rarely do I come across someone who's self-aware enough at an early age to to know where they where they're going.
00:11:17
Speaker
In my case, that took a lot longer than some other people that I know. But that's an interesting point and it's in itself, isn't it? that It took a lot longer for you than it did for a lot of other people that you know.
00:11:30
Speaker
Everybody develops in their own way at their own pace. And just because somebody else has found their ideal partner when they were 16, 17, whatever, and you're still 30 and haven't found that person, doesn't mean to say that you should settle for second best.
00:11:47
Speaker
What it means is that you should work out what it is that you are looking for. Absolutely. What it is that is going to help you live your full and complete life. I've spent a lot of time looking at your website, johnkennycoaching.com.
Self-awareness and Emotional Intelligence in Relationships
00:12:02
Speaker
There's an awful lot of information there about working out what you need for yourself, but also what you are going to offer to someone else. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
That would be my next point, actually. It's it's not just about knowing what you want. It's what kind of space are you in and what you're ah able to give. I think that was my main stumbling block is I knew i wanted to be loved and I was desperate to be loved based on some of the experiences I'd had in childhood, which led me to believe I was quite unlovable.
00:12:33
Speaker
and And I was always looking to prove to myself. that I was lovable, but actually when I met people that were lovable or thought I was lovable and I could love, I wasn't able to offer that back to them because it wasn't something I was capable of giving.
00:12:48
Speaker
And it took me time to recognize that it wasn't just about what I need from somebody else. It's what I'm, you know, how open can I be within myself in order to offer something to them too?
00:13:01
Speaker
yeah And that was a massive stumbling block for me. Part of the way in which we still today bring up boys is like boys are strong. The emotional desert that we seem to be encouraging in boys is that you do have to be in touch with your emotions to be able be in touch with somebody else's emotions as well. Yeah, I think it's to have some emotional intelligence, I think is the word.
00:13:26
Speaker
yeah To have some emotional awareness. is to be able to understand for you to have a healthy relationship you need to be in touch with your own self and also to be able to try and have some empathy or at least some understanding around where someone else is coming from even if you don't really get it it's just to because you know what i can kind of put myself in your shoes and and i'll do my best to to to to help you through that but i might not be able to And it's not always our job either to provide the space where you help somebody to, don't want to use the word fix, but you don't have to fix other people.
00:14:06
Speaker
But it's being emotionally intelligent and aware enough to go, okay, this person might be going through this and and and how can I put myself into a space which is helpful for them? And again, I found think most people find that quite difficult because there's a lot of self-dispy to take things personally. If someone's upset or got the hump about something,
00:14:23
Speaker
we automatically go defensive because we think it might be about us or in some people's cases they just don't know how to deal with somebody when they're not in a good space but it's just sort of taking that pressure off to go you know what they might not be in a good space but it isn't my job to necessarily fix that I'm probably 90% of the time not going to be the cause of that because I haven't done anything to be the cause of that and how can I put myself into a space there where I can be there for this person and support them and help them through whatever they're going through and and we can do this together Is it possible that people in a relationship will have discussions about the physical side of the relationship and almost be very comfortable about that, but don't have the conversations that you've just been describing about how to deal with each other's emotions, how to be supportive of each other's emotions in different types of circumstances? I think that's probably quite common, yeah, because sex is something that we do talk about um more commonly, I would say, than in the past emotions.
00:15:21
Speaker
And I think, like you said, again, with the emotional stuff in relationships, it needs to be encouraged. Communication needs to be encouraged in a healthy way. Again, it's, I mean, I don't know what you had when you were a kid, but my parents constantly blamed me for how they felt.
00:15:35
Speaker
So if they were in a bad space, you make me feel this and you make me feel that. So when I then came into relationships and people weren't in good spaces, I automatically took responsibility and felt blamed for it. So therefore, I was really unable to be in a space with anybody else because I was already going into myself to try and to protect myself from the stuff that I'd been through as a child. And again, there's and there's that's that's, again, something I think really needs to change is that you are responsible for how you feel. I might be doing something that you're not particularly keen on.
00:16:06
Speaker
And again, that's where the art of communication comes in, that if you're doing something I don't like, it's okay for me to say I don't really like that. But I can't blame you all the time for my feelings because I need to be have some autonomy over my own emotions. And if I'm not emotionally intelligent and capable of being in touch with who I am and what I'm feeling and why, I will have a tendency to blame everybody else and then struggle in that space. And if that person is the same, ah you'll find there's going to be ah a lot of closed off relationships or fraught relationships, destructive relationships, because it's going to be a highly emotional
00:16:44
Speaker
space or it's just going to be void of emotions because nobody really knows how to deal with them. What you're describing, I suppose, is where people have no emotional connection with themselves. They can't have an emotional connection with someone else and that there'll be no communication. Yeah, I think sometimes though you you do. ah There are some people that are overly empathic where they are completely out of touch with what's going on for them, but they buy into everybody else's feelings far too much.
00:17:10
Speaker
And so they'll have a great understanding of maybe what's going on for someone else. But as you just mentioned there, they won't have a clue what's going on for them, which then doesn't lead necessarily to healthy outcomes anyway, because they might be...
00:17:24
Speaker
overly empathizing with somebody else um and completely missing what's going on for them at the same time. Very unlikely that you'll have a healthy, balanced relationship if you don't take some time to understand yourself and know how you feel and why you feel that way.
00:17:39
Speaker
And then can articulate that if necessary with the person that you're having this relationship with, because that's not always necessary either. I like to think of it as, is it a me thing or a them thing or an us thing?
00:17:52
Speaker
If it's a me thing, then most of the time I will sit with it and try and figure it out for myself. If I need some help on that, I will look for it. But it might just be that there's something going on for me that I don't need to discuss or communicate.
00:18:04
Speaker
Just maybe the fact that I'm not in a great space at this time and I'm i'm trying to sort it out. Knowing where that issue comes from is is probably the first thing i would think of in being able to have a healthier kind of relationship with someone else if there's a problem.
00:18:19
Speaker
Because it might be something that I don't need to air or disgust and I can just work through it or it might be something that I do need to bring to the table in order to resolve. The cause of the of the issue from what you're saying could be the other person in the relationship or it could be past experiences yeah going all the way back to childhood or it could be trying to fulfill someone else's expectations of how you will live your life has landed you in a situation which is actually not healthy for either of the people in the relationship because it's it's not a relationship built on that mutual trust and respect.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. You're trying to fulfill a social norm. Or I've known people, for example, who've told me that in in order to progress their career, it is better for them to be married than single. No, it's interesting, isn't it? That there's like, if you look at high profile kind of positions and stuff in society,
00:19:16
Speaker
most people you'll find are in relationships. yeah And people I think that are single are looked at slightly differently because because they're not. Yes. There's all sorts of things that put pressure on a relationship, put pressure on people to join a relationship, look for a relationship.
00:19:32
Speaker
But everything that you're saying, you need to think about yourself and what it is that you're going to offer to someone as well as what you need from that other person. And if you can't match...
00:19:44
Speaker
what you offer with what you need, then that is not the great relationship for you to be in But until you've understood what it is that you want, you can't then work out what you can offer.
00:19:58
Speaker
And it that seems to be the order that you need to do this. is And then suppose relationships are all about compromise. Yeah, if you like that word. Most of the time I find people don't like that word because compromise generally feels like you're giving something up.
00:20:13
Speaker
I suspect that is the reality. I mean, one of my first serious relationships was, ah you should wear this coat. We should go shopping. We'll buy you these clothes. And I think, I don't like those. And I know I'm not going to look good in those.
00:20:25
Speaker
And yeah so we're not going to do that. Thank you very much. That was a slight element of that warning sign that actually this isn't going to work because to make that relationship work, I'm just going to have to comply. Yeah.
00:20:38
Speaker
There's that should, we the should word. You should do. with that That's where that expectancy comes in. So if you you hear someone say should, or you say should to yourself, There's generally an expectancy there that you you you don't want to be doing.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yes. But it's just also struck me that when we talk about compromise, COM, and comply, COM, there is balance somewhere between what we're willing to compromise on. yeah And that's the thing that we're we're doing because we we want to positively make the relationship work.
00:21:09
Speaker
But when it gets to the point where we're thinking, i am complying, that is the red flag. And that's where we have to say, stop. We're at my line in the sand. And that's not going to happen.
00:21:19
Speaker
Now, I like to work with my clients in a... more I'm doing this because it makes us happy space rather than I'm compromising something for myself to help the relationship space.
00:21:32
Speaker
We're in sort of some kind of disagreement about what we're going to do or something in the relationship. And it's ah a seven out of 10 importance for me, but it's a nine out of 10 importance for you. Then we do necessarily, you know, it's more than likely we're going to do what you prefer because it's more important to you. And I'm happy to do that because it is more important to you. And therefore you,
00:21:51
Speaker
there'll be happier relationship because I want you to be happy and I want us to be happy and and therefore it's it's okay for on this ah this for this instance for me too to, for for us to do what's what's more preferable for you.
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, but you're using that phrase us rather than you I'm doing this for us. Yes. Which is the compromise that you're making in order because we are a partnership. Exactly. Because we want to do this together.
00:22:19
Speaker
We're doing it for us. Yes. But when you start to say, but do I'm doing it for you, that's... that's Even the even the the expression feels like I'm resenting the fact that I'm doing it.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Yeah. And as as long as you can keep on saying, I'm doing this for us, that makes me feel very positive. Yes, definitely. It's for the benefit of our relationship. So therefore, I'm happy to do that.
00:22:46
Speaker
And again, I think you need to be... at least um not fussed about doing, you need to be content in doing something. ah if you're going to If you're going to use the word compromise, if you're going to compromise something in a relationship,
00:23:00
Speaker
it needs to feel like you're okay with it. You need to be okay with it. and And if you're not, it's probably quite, it's more important to you than maybe you realize, or you might feel like you're complying. Again, that might be an ex-relationship issue coming up. It might be a childhood issue coming up because you feel like you're giving something up of yourself or you're acquiescing to something you don't really want to.
00:23:20
Speaker
And again, so that's if you if you know yourself pretty well, you can figure that out. So if you're not feeling overly comfortable with something, you can generally think like, OK, why am i not really comfortable with this? And you can figure that out for yourself and see where that's coming from. And and again, is it if it's important enough, then it needs to be addressed within the relationship. And if it's just something that you're being triggered by, then on the whole, you can generally work that out for yourself. And then you don't need to bring it to the relationship and and you can move forward in a more harmonious way anyway.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, got to retrieve that harmony. And I suppose once you're into the relationship, this either becomes easier as you get older and more into a long-term relationship or it becomes more difficult. And if it becomes more difficult, then you have to have that conversation with your partner about why it's becoming more difficult for Yeah, remember we all change through life, don't we? Life changes us and we change through life. and And sometimes we might be with someone meet someone and be with them in our 20s and then by the time we get to our 40s we're completely different people you've run out of things to say to each other yeah if we've run out of things to tell or if we've we've just grown in different areas you know grown in areas that are different and we've got different interests and and we're different people or i've grown you've not grown or vice versa then again communication is the first thing to be able to do is to talk that through and and sometimes you can come to some kind of
00:24:43
Speaker
agreement that maybe you you're not the same people anymore and then maybe you've thought there might be someone else out there better for you or you might be better off on your own for a while and and you can come to some kind of amicable agreement about going separate ways or you might be able to go okay well you know there's a lot for us to work on here so let's crack on and see how we're going to bring this relationship back together or are we going to maybe live a little bit independently from each other in this relationship but still be able to make this relationship work in ah in a way that we're both happy with so We are constantly evolving as people and that's why communication is so important in the relationship because if we notice that things are different, we need to be able to talk that through with a person that we're spending so much of our time with.
Impact of Outside Opinions on Relationships
00:25:28
Speaker
Yes. The big sort of thing for me from this is that it doesn't matter what other people outside the relationship think. It's about you. To a certain degree, when you're looking for a new relationship and you're in a new relationship with someone, it it very much can matter what other people think, especially if you're the kind of person that has difficult relationships time after time, that if you've got a trusted group of friends or a trusted friend or family,
00:25:56
Speaker
that have got your best interests at heart and they don't take to your partner or they're worried about certain things that are happening in your relationship, then that that then their their opinion will matter because we can be a little bit blinded to certain things when we're in relationships. And if we have got a pattern of relating anyway, we could overlook certain things because they feel normal.
00:26:17
Speaker
Whereas someone from outside of that space might be able to go, you know what, John, that that doesn't feel too healthy to me. Have you seen what's going on here? and And then it's good to listen to people that have more of an outside view of what's going on.
00:26:30
Speaker
And that also may be the case in a longer term relationship. If you trust that person, they might be able to see things that you can't see. But yeah, I think outside influences can have a positive and negative effect. I think it depends where that outside influence is coming from.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yes, its it is an immensely complex subject, isn't it? Can be. Yeah, only so much that we can cover and in one episode. But John, it's been really very interesting. Thank you very much. Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you.
00:26:59
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida. And in this episode of Fit For My Age, I have been having a conversation with John Kenny, the relationship guy.
00:27:10
Speaker
There's link to John's website in the description, along with a link to abbasida.co.uk, where you will find more information about both of us. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to John.
00:27:25
Speaker
If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like John, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made.
00:27:37
Speaker
There's link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. If you are listening to Fit For My Age on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:27:51
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
Podcast Conclusion and Call to Action
00:28:07
Speaker
At Fit for My Age, our aim is proactive positive aging. Knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health. That is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test.
00:28:21
Speaker
York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, vitamin D and B12, liver function, iron, inflammation and a full blood count.
00:28:35
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UKAS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:28:53
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:29:07
Speaker
All of those discounts mean that that description is well worth reading. If you have liked this episode of Fit For My Age, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:29:20
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
00:29:32
Speaker
Until the next episode of Fit For My Age, thank you for listening and goodbye.