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Understanding Health Education a conversation with Marin Bargan
14 Plays11 days ago
How do medical professionals explain complex health issues to ordinary people.
Marin Bargan is the founder of DigitalPulse.health, where he leads a team of digital experts who help medical and health care experts in the UK to elevate their digital presence, so that patients can easily access and engage with quality care.
In this episode of the Abeceder health and well-being podcast Fit For My Age, Marin explains to host Michael Millward why he established DigitalPulse.health, and the communication techniques that help patients better understand their treatment options.
Their conversation covers
· Using technology to create empathy with patients.
· Understanding patient needs and making digital interactions personal
· The role of AI in digital health care
· The future of health education
Since the recording Dezign41 has rebranded to DigitalPulse.health a name that better describes what company does.
Find out more about Michael Millward and Marin Bargan at Abeceder.co.uk.
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Fit For My Age is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform, that really does make creating content so easy.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to Fit for My Age, the health and wellbeing podcast from Abysida. I'm your host, Michael Millward, the managing director of Abysida.
Introducing Marin Bargan
00:00:18
Speaker
Today, my guest is Marin Bargan. Marin runs a company which creates health education websites. So we're going to be learning about health education.
Zencastr Promotion
00:00:30
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, Fit for My Age is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that makes every stage of the podcast production process, including distribution to all the major platforms, so easy.
00:00:48
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, I highly recommend it. Use the link in the description. It has a built-in discount. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:09
Speaker
Very importantly on Fit For My Age, we do not tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
Marin's Background and Business
00:01:16
Speaker
to Today my guest is Marin Bagan.
00:01:20
Speaker
Marin is originally from Moldova, so is my first guest from Moldova, but now lives in London where he runs a web design company that focuses on health education.
00:01:32
Speaker
I've never been to Moldova, But if I do get to go, i will make all my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where I get trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:01:48
Speaker
You can as well if you use the link in the description, which has a built-in discount on membership subscriptions. Now that I have paid the rent, it is time to make an episode of Fit for My Age and say, hello, Maren.
00:02:02
Speaker
Hello, Michael. co How are you today? I'm very good, how are you? I am extremely well, thank you very much. And I am wondering, are you in London at the moment or are you in Moldova?
00:02:13
Speaker
I am in London at the moment. I just got back about a month ago, so I still do a few trips a year just to visit my family and and keep those ties with Moldova, but i am I am based in London, yes.
Focus on Healthcare Design
00:02:27
Speaker
Oh, it goes back to seas, Mum. LAUGHTER
00:02:32
Speaker
Please, can we start by you telling me a little bit about the organization that you run and how you ended up living in London? Yes, thank you for inviting me here, Michael. It's ah it's a pleasure being here. So i am Aaron. currently live in London. I come from a startup background. So essentially all my work experience is from London itself. But previously, I've spent a few years helping e-commerce ventures grow. So very specifically startups. when
00:03:02
Speaker
COVID hit, I have decided to channel my expertise into founding and you know my own digital agency, which is called Design 41. you know We decided to focus entirely on the healthcare sector.
00:03:16
Speaker
And nowadays, we are working ah very closely with private clinics, as well as independent doctors across the UK. And we help them meet all their digital needs and ah create a stronger online presence from their side, but also facilitating digitally anything that is related to to the patient care side. So design 41, I think we need to explain the spelling of design. Yes, that is indeed something that needs to be explained. when COVID hit, I was essentially in in Shanghai. I was living in China at that time. And, you know, I made up my mind of making that change towards towards the digital. And i was looking for a name for a very long time. And at that time, we we decided to focus on on different industries, not specifically only healthcare. It's only a bit after that we decided to specialize in the healthcare industry specifically.
00:04:11
Speaker
And I was really struggling to to choose a name. And I was living in this really great building that resembles the Natural History Museum in London. um You know, it's got great architectures, this historical building in in in the centre of Shanghai. And that essentially was, the address was 41. So this is where Design 41 is coming from.
00:04:33
Speaker
I think coming back to the UK, um it's probably lost a little bit of that meaning. It was probably very relevant for the years that I was there. But it's something that we are They're still working on, so there may be some surprises in regards to that name. Yeah, but you spell it with a Z instead of an S, don't you? Yes, that's also because part of the struggle was, you know, choosing that name and and finding a name that essentially nobody has taken yet. And, you know, with an S, he was obviously taken by. by that time. So I had to compromise.
00:05:05
Speaker
As years have passed, and you know, we decided to specialize specifically in the healthcare industry, I i realized that it is more important to to have a name that is very suggestive and something that people find it very easy to to understand what we are about. So we are currently working on improving that specific that specific aspect of the company. Yes.
00:05:26
Speaker
When you first started though, and it seems such a long time ago, COVID and the lockdown and not so long ago, and people are still suffering. But when you started, you were looking at different industries to specialize in because it's a crowded marketplace and people look for specific expertise. But why did you choose the healthcare industry?
Motivation for Healthcare Focus
00:05:52
Speaker
Yes, it's a it's a very good ah question. And like mentioned, I feel that The industry is certainly very crowded. We have ah trialed a few different industries for a few years. I think at the end of the day, came to the question of why. And um I used to struggle with that question as to, you know, surely you are creating something that is digitally pleasing and it looks nice. But at the end of the day, the question is, why are you doing that, right? So that brought me a little bit back to my my origin. So my mom is a doctor and, um you know, growing up, I,
00:06:27
Speaker
I feel like I've grown up being surrounded by patients from a really early, early age. And, you know, that exposure gave me a real appreciation for healthcare and all the amazing work that the healthcare professionals do. And as you can imagine as well, there was a strong pressure from my family side to become a doctor, which unfortunately did not happen. And you know growing up, i I developed a very keen eye for digital design, and I was fascinated by colors and shapes and how to make it you know how to bring it together. And then later on, I combined that with all the startup experience where it's more
00:07:05
Speaker
brain work in terms of you know how do we make that work and how to make people, whether it's buy things or you know subscribe to what we do. And I decided to combine essentially those those together.
00:07:16
Speaker
And this is where later on I said, well, I could probably merge all those things together and still in a way, you know focus on the on the health tech, so healthcare care mixed with technology. And um in a way that would probably answer a little bit my family's prayers for being somehow related to the the the the healthcare industry. yes Right. So you're not a doctor, but you're a designer of of medical education. That's right. So at the moment, I feel i am working with clinics and doctors on on a daily basis. So although I don't see patients and I don't necessarily work closely with them, but I essentially all the work that I do is directly for the patients more than than anybody else. And, you know, I feel that sometimes even in the work that we do, we have to go out and carry out patient interviews, to understand their journey. So I still feel connected to to that in a way. But I think more than that, there is also there's also a satisfaction beyond that in the fact that the work that you do at the end of the day helps somebody out there and you are contributing to something.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yes. It sounds to me as if what you've done is taken sort of experience from your earliest years all the way through your childhood, adolescence, and then also taken your natural inclination towards design and then your experience in startups.
00:08:39
Speaker
And so you've naturally almost fallen into, well, I can use all of my experience in this type of environment, in this type of organization.
00:08:51
Speaker
But I'm wondering, you know, when yeah everything seems to fit into place in that sort of way, yes I'm sure it probably doesn't. You know, what were some of the challenges and some of the things you didn't expect would happen when you set up a business and decide to focus on medical education?
Challenges in Patient-Oriented Design
00:09:11
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I think, you know, looking from from afar, that looks like an interesting journey. But um like any other young professional out there, there are a lot of challenges that we, you know, we try to fix on the go, really. um I think when we started um with the healthcare care industry specifically, the there were a lot of challenges that I didn't i didn't necessarily expect. So,
00:09:36
Speaker
the massive challenge that i had from my side was really just to learn in terms of you know everything and how healthcare care connects with technology in this case because i came from a background where i've built digital products and i've done digital design and you know all that part of the business but now it was really just having patients and having clinics in front of you and it was really about How do you write the content? How do you create patient-oriented design? And also other challenges like, for example, um you know how do we address patient empathy?
00:10:10
Speaker
Because this is something that I guess, um nor the doctors nor the designers, they really learn when studying, right? So this is generally something that you learn on on the ground. And like I said, you would have essentially some of the skills and then you learn new ones on the ground and then you try to improve and provide better better service. But I guess it's also related to that wheel of constantly delivering something better and learning from one experience, taking everything from there improving on the next one. And, you know, I couldn yeah i quickly realized that, you know, connecting the
00:10:47
Speaker
connecting and also understanding the work that you do with the patients. It's it very important that whole journey. It sounds like you're a technology person and like lots of the technology people that I've met, there is a sort of understanding that if only we used more technology, everything in life would be an awful lot better.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yes. But then... from what you're saying, it's almost, again, sort of, well, not everything in life is better just because you can technologicalize it.
00:11:18
Speaker
I probably might have invented a new word there, technologicalize, but not everything is better just because you can apply some technology to it. When this, when you talk about patient empathy, what you, I suppose, you're really talking about is bedside manner.
00:11:36
Speaker
And that's one of the things that is really interesting because it's, it's like, how do we get the messages across? Because Fit For My Age was started because I believed that we weren't getting enough information early enough into how we live and the impacts about the decisions that we make will have the impact the decisions we make will have on our health, both physical and mental and our general wellbeing. And you're the person
00:12:08
Speaker
I say pointing the finger at you, who whose job it is to help us improve our health, maintain our good health by communicating health education messages to us in a way that connects with us. So the bedside manner coming out of the screen, the empathy with the patient, you know, how do you do it?
00:12:34
Speaker
How do you take something which, you know, When you get rushed into hospital and there's emergency and you're panicking and all of a sudden there's a nurse there who's just touching your hand and going like, you're all right now, mate.
00:12:47
Speaker
How do you replicate that on a screen? Yes, absolutely. I absolutely love that question. And in fact, I attended one of the Google events about a month ago that was centered around the cancer topic in um children specifically. And um one of the moms was on stage. And in fact, that was exactly the conclusion of the whole you know conversation it was the fact that technology is there.
00:13:12
Speaker
But at the end of the day, just looking for someone, a human really, who who is there to encourage you and support you on that journey. Right. So I believe that from from our side, when we are creating, whether it's design, whether it's content, whether it's specific digital solutions, we are trying to understand that that patient journey. um Nevertheless, this is not necessarily an easy an easy task to do really mainly because every single patient is going through a very different journey. So for example, somebody who is having, you know, someone who's suffering of cancer is having a very different experience to someone who is suffering of tinnitus, for example. So in this case, it's, you're not learning to just create one experience for all patients out there in a way
00:13:55
Speaker
you always have to start from scratch to then create for a very specific kind of um healthcare care problem or healthcare condition essentially. So each time you are essentially learning about what that health condition is, you know, how bad is it? What is that patient living? What are the feelings there, right? So it's it's ah it's a very complex one, I would say, but essentially the, you know, the approach that we we've taken is We're trying to really put ourselves in the patient's shoes and we believe that this is really the the way to understand the challenges in you know creating a safe and also relatable environment. I believe that when you go to a specific platform or any websites really, the moment you identify yourself with that content. And that can also include the images, but also the way even the text is being, you know, is talking to you. i feel that that is very important. And the moment you don't feel that that is addressing the problem, although he's talking about the problem that you have,
00:14:52
Speaker
But if that's not talking to you, then essentially you you leaving that that website or platform disappointed. And I find that is ah it's a very tricky one, but it's also a very interesting one because I find that many agencies, they you know that's the problem when you focus on different industries.
00:15:09
Speaker
yeah The moment that you suddenly jump into a healthcare care project. So because there's so many of these challenges, you may not necessarily understand, okay, but what does this project exactly
Role of AI in Content Creation
00:15:19
Speaker
entails? And why is this project different from any other projects out there? So for example, a project that is addressing a, um you know, a taxi company's needs, for example, will be very, very different. And this this is why I find it very exciting, and very interesting, because then It opens this gate for a lot of learning where essentially every single project, it opens that that gate for what can I learn from this project and how can I do better for the next one? Yeah. So if you're trying to build that rapport with the patient or the person who is worried that they may have a condition or the person who is related to or just loves someone who has told them, oh, we've got this condition,
00:16:03
Speaker
How do you use AI to help create that? Can you use AI to help create that empathy? Or is this one of those situations where the content really does need to come from a human being?
00:16:18
Speaker
That's a very, very good, interesting, you know very interesting question. Sorry. um I do feel that the AI has has certainly you know helped us with a lot of processes and even in terms of content, mainly because it's very easy to generate. But interestingly,
00:16:35
Speaker
As content is becoming much easier to create these days, I do feel that having that content person who is focusing on every single sentence is actually becoming more important than it was even before before COVID or before the AI era. And that is mainly because, um you know, you generally do need someone who understands what is happening, how do they write for patients. My personal experience with the AI, i find that um while it can learn to create that empathy for you, it still does not feel us as close to the way a human would approach as of now, right? AI is, again, it's progressing really fast. And, you know, again, even the humans, they we also have our own challenges. We're obviously not perfect. And i i learned this a little bit from from a
00:17:26
Speaker
you know personal experience. So my brother was diagnosed with cancer a while back and you know previously i would i would sit down with the team and you know we would do all the planning and we would talk about how we're going to approach a specific problem and we go through case studies and all of that. And I really understood that problem very differently when my brother was diagnosed with cancer because I you know i found myself going through all the information page by page on like 10, 20 different websites, trying to understand what is happening, who's the right healthcare professionals, what's their approach. And this is really when I understood how important this whole approach and the way we we do things, how important that is. And you know i i learned that it's not just about generic content. It's also about addressing that
00:18:12
Speaker
very specific individual ah challenges that each individual is facing, right? So I i find that it's quite quite fascinating. And I guess that that's also something that's evolving all the time. But as of now, internally, we always still rely on a specialized content person who's going to create that step by step specifically for for each clinical doctor. sounds like the big challenge is a big gap between what someone who's expert in a subject like a doctor or a medical professional of some kind knows about a particular condition and what they think the patient will be interested in.
00:18:55
Speaker
and actually then what the patient really wants to know. And like I said, suppose every patient is an individual. We must never forget that. And every patient will have different needs when it comes to what they want to know and how deeply they want to go into a a topic. So I suppose you've got to try and accommodate every type of potential patient.
AI Enhancing Patient Interaction
00:19:24
Speaker
That's right. I mean, in in some regards, we are also using AI more as a solution. So for example, we are currently working with an audio vestibular clinic. So they do a lot of menace disease, they do tinnitus. everything around the you know the year subject really. And um one solution that we've just developed last week was essentially to take everything and all the knowledge and all the materials and the brochures that they created across years. We would then create this tool through AI that was feeding all that information. The patient would come there as a first stop and then they would search through all the information. That's very interactive in between the patient and the AI.
00:20:09
Speaker
And once they get to the point where there is nothing else where the AI can can support, then essentially they can go ahead and then book their consultation with the clinic. So this is, for example, a an example where they can use AI, but at the same time, we also on the other end, we have, you know, someone who's at the reception who's always ready to either book an appointment or help them with any further information. So at the moment, I feel like it's,
00:20:33
Speaker
they start merging in between a bit of AI and a little bit of the the humanized touch. And it's certainly moving a lot towards the AI, but um it's it's an interesting journey to you know to keep an eye on and see how this is this is going to develop.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost like that challenge between talking to a computer who will give you the information and talking to a human being who's going to give you the empathy.
00:21:01
Speaker
so That's right. big challenge for organiz for medical practitioners of all sorts and the need to get people the information that they need rather than waiting for someone to call them back or waiting on a phone line for someone to answer a phone.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I think, and again, I may be a bit biased because I work in the digital space. I'm also ah young, so I obviously find it much easier to find that information, navigate. I think one aspect that we need to to bear in mind is really when you've got patients that are over 60 years old or they're not necessarily digitally very savvy. So the question is, how do we create those solutions?
00:21:48
Speaker
where they still find it easy to access and they still find that information. like you said, when you try to call a clinic and you've been, you know, on the line for 30 minutes and nobody's still picking up the phone. Yeah.
00:22:01
Speaker
What sort of things do you think will be we will see in the future when it comes to our health education? And so there will be more AI, but what what are you seeing coming as the next stages of of health education? What will
Future of Health Education
00:22:16
Speaker
we get? What will we see?
00:22:19
Speaker
it's It's a very good question. I personally believe that it is developing massively. a lot of them are still in the trial stages. um But as soon like any other solutions, really, as soon as one is successful, then a lot of it is being built on on that foundation. I believe that a lot of, you know, this is where the term of health tech is is very common nowadays. So where you're merging the healthcare and the technology together. And, um, One interesting thing, for example, Google is doing at the moment is they are encouraging clinics and doctors to publish their own content on their own channel on YouTube. So YouTube is owned by by Google. And something interesting they they've implemented recently, I'm not sure if it's live yet, it was just as one of the events this year, is if you have any...
00:23:10
Speaker
anything that is super urgent where you may need information but you can't get hold of a doctor or someone to confirm that they're going to implement all these conditions on youtube where it's already approved by youtube to say that this information has been medically reviewed and you can essentially start using that as you know as an urgent solution for now until a doctor is arriving for example um it's It's a really interesting space because even, for example, in the Harley Street area, which accounts for about 40% of the private healthcare in the UK, they have recently opened a ah hub that is called Hale House, and that is an entire space dedicated just to the health tech industry. So all the people there, all they do is just work around the health tech space, bringing solutions for patients and
00:23:57
Speaker
it's mind blowing to what extent that is developing. So you'd have, for example, dashboards that are very specifically designed to, you know, presenting your health assessments and which direction that is going and very clearly pointing out what is good and what's not so good.
Connecting with Marin and Design 41
00:24:12
Speaker
Right. And I find that interesting how, currently it's merging in between the AI and the human side where that is accelerating so so fast so it's it's certainly an interesting space to to keep an eye on certainly is if somebody is if sorry if someone is interested and wants to keep an eye on it where can they find out more information about Marin and your design 41 company what's the website address
00:24:42
Speaker
Yes, design41, that is And probably the best way is to connect on LinkedIn.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, sounds great. So design, spelt with a z, not an s, 41.com is the place really to find more information about Marin.com. Bargan and his company and we will put links in the description to his website, his LinkedIn profile as well. But for the moment, Marin, it's such a fascinating subject.
00:25:16
Speaker
The way in which we get the information, the information builds knowledge. Knowledge means we can make better decisions about our lives and it's just a a nice insight into how that information is being collated and presented in ways that will make more sense to more people. And I really do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. It's been very interesting.
00:25:40
Speaker
Well, thank you, Michael. I really appreciated and enjoyed this discussion. And um even me being in this space, um I'm really excited about the years ahead. And I believe, similar to how we had you know the internet coming coming out years ago, I believe that right now it's ah it's a great opportunity just to be out there and... you know, use all these tools and digitalize as much as possible. And specifically to the health tech industry, I believe that there's also a massive why behind that. And there's a reason why you're doing that and who that is helping. So right if ever you're thinking of, you know, making a move into this industry, I'll be happy to connect and and help in any ways as well.
00:26:22
Speaker
Thank you very much. Thank you. we will speak soon. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida. And in this episode of Fit for My Age, I have been having a conversation with Marin Bagan from Design 41, spelt with Z. You can find out more information about both of us at abusida.co.uk. There is a link in the description alongside links to all of Marin's websites as well.
00:26:51
Speaker
I must remember to thank the team at Matchmaker for introducing me to Marin. If you're a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Marin, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where great hosts and great guests are matched and great podcasts are hatched. There is a link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description.
00:27:12
Speaker
At Fit for My Age, our aim is proactive positive aging. Knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health. That is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test. York Tests provide an assessment of 39, yes 39 different health markers, including things like cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamin levels, organ functions,
00:27:36
Speaker
The list goes on. It also involves a full blood count. The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out, UKAS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory. You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:28:07
Speaker
That means that description is well worth reading. I'm sure you will have enjoyed this episode of Fit for My Age as much as Maren and I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:28:26
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of Fit For My Age, thank you for listening and goodbye.