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Joe Murgia (UFO Joe) - Wilson/Davis Memo, UFOs & More
632 Plays1 year ago
Joe Murgia, aka UFO Joe, is a freelance Director of Photography and Camera Operator. He also runs the website UFOJoe.net, where he posts important UFO news. He also has a YouTube channel where he interviews guests and covers many aspects of the UFO subject.
Joe Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheUfoJoe
Joe YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ufojoe1
Joe Website: https://www.ufojoe.net/
Joe Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ufojoe11/
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Joe Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheUfoJoe
Joe YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ufojoe1
Joe Website: https://www.ufojoe.net/
Joe Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ufojoe11/
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
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Transcript
Introduction to the Anomalous Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon.
The History and Mystery of UFOs
00:00:20
Speaker
One realizes very quickly we've been seeing this technology for decades.
00:00:31
Speaker
I had access to all those programs.
00:00:52
Speaker
There's no windows, no real wings or control surfaces, no obvious sense of propulsion, and yet this object is witnessed not by people.
Welcoming Joe Magia and His Background
00:01:14
Speaker
What's up, guys? Welcome back to the channel. Thank you so much for being here live. I really do appreciate everyone being here. Quick, before we bring on my guest, just to let you know, as always, if you have any questions throughout the interview, just pop them in capital letters because obviously I'm more likely to see them. Keep the chat nice and cordial, please. You always do so. Again, I appreciate that.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, let's get into it. So yeah, I've been looking forward to speaking to my guests today for some time. We've interacted many times on Twitter, but this is the first time that we've actually spoken. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. So without further ado, please welcome Joe Magia.
00:01:56
Speaker
Great, I'm great. Thanks for having me. I'm really glad to be here. Thank you so much for doing this, man. Like I said, we've not spoken face to face before, but we have interacted a lot on Twitter and then, you know, everything that you post on Twitter covers the whole gambit when it comes to the phenomena, which I find
00:02:11
Speaker
really impressive because it's not easy to cover all those aspects of it. So kudos to you. Thank you. Before we get into the meat and potatoes of what we're going to talk about, if you could just give us a background about how you first got started in the subject because that would just be great to lay it out there if you don't mind.
00:02:31
Speaker
When I was younger, I watched a show called In Search Of, which was Leonard Nimoy, and it covered all of these topics, and I loved it. And I remember also going to the movies to see a Bigfoot movie. It was called Legend of Boggy Creek. I think it was like 75, 73, something like that. I was really young, and I went with my sisters, who don't even remember, had an impact on me. It was a docu-drama. So it was written and scripted, but they treated it like a documentary.
00:02:59
Speaker
But it wasn't. And then in 77, I saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the movie theater. And I loved it. I think I saw it by myself, too. I was 12 years old. I had the T-shirt. I had a great picture of me playing drums with the Close Encounters of the Third Kind T-shirt on, which I cannot find right now.
Joe's Journey into Ufology and the Occult
00:03:19
Speaker
And then
00:03:20
Speaker
So, but I didn't at the time, I didn't realize you can study ufology. I'm 12 years old. I'm like, so I just went about my life and I didn't really get interested again until probably in the late eighties, maybe starting into some occult stuff and actual out of, out of body stuff, out of body projections, books, and then 96.
00:03:44
Speaker
my first ex-wife, I have two, I was pursuing her. And she mentioned the book. She goes, my aunt had this experience with this being. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, yeah, he wrote about it. It's a book called Communion by Whitley Strieber. I'm like, all right. So in my head, I'm like, I'm going to buy that book. I'm going to read it. And now I have something in common with her that I can talk to her about. So I had ulterior motives, but I also had an interest.
00:04:07
Speaker
So I started reading communion. This was 96. And I'm like, this is really scary. I don't really want to read this. I had no idea what it was about. And I put it down that night. I woke up on my couch. I fell asleep on the couch and I couldn't move. I was paralyzed. Some people will say it's sleep paralysis. I thought the aliens had frozen me and were coming to get me. I was so scared. I worked my way out of it. I struggled. And the next day I'm like, you know what? I'm going to take that as a sign that I need to finish communion. And I did.
00:04:36
Speaker
And I loved it. And I read transformation and breakthrough. And I just went down a rabbit hole. All of these different books related to UFOs and metaphysics, channeling books, everything. And I just read everything and I believed everything. I had no filter. I had no discernment. So that's basically how I got started.
00:04:56
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah. You mentioned really streamer there. I was lucky enough to meet him at the weekend and see him talk for the first time, but he, and he talks about, you know, what happened to him, but there was something about hearing it directly from him that really hits home about it. You know, cause obviously I read the books in the movie, read everything over the years, but yeah, it was really, really, uh, really moving actually in a way. So yeah, that's really,
00:05:20
Speaker
There are people are very there are people who are skeptical of his story. And I'm like, there are people there are people that spend time at his cabin who had their own experiences. They've gone on the record, not all of them. So it's like it's not just him. So there is really something going on. And he's open about saying, I don't know if it's positive or not.
00:05:38
Speaker
He's gone back and forth over the years. He tries to call them the visitors because he does not know what they are, which I think is the right way to go. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Now, let's jump into kind of what we're going to get into.
The Wilson Davis Notes and Congressional Interest
00:05:51
Speaker
And I wanted to start because I mentioned before we came on air that I'd not really covered the Wilson Davis notes at all on this channel. I kind of was waiting for the right moment. So obviously when we agreed to do this, I thought, well, I've got to ask Joe about it.
00:06:06
Speaker
if you don't mind just laying out the kind of basic outline of of what happened you know the meet the alleged meeting let's say and then you can get into kind of yeah the nuances from your from your angle if that's okay okay um april 97 i'm listening to art belle staying up till six a.m in the morning every night not sleeping and then steven greer is on saying oh yeah i briefed a joint chiefs fella at the pentagon and i'm like
00:06:32
Speaker
Really? Steven Greer briefed a joint chiefs fellow, like joint chiefs guy. And I'm like, that's really huge. And if it happened and Greer, I don't think he was as controversial back then. So I kept that in the back of my mind. And then.
00:06:48
Speaker
Over the years, one of the people who was there with him was Will Miller. So he was his, the CSEDI military advisor. He was there with Edgar Mitchell and two other people. And in, so that was 97 that briefing happened. Admiral Wilson, we later found out. And 2007, I had met Will Miller because he did an interview in Tampa. He lived in Florida in the Tampa area.
00:07:12
Speaker
I met him, I went to his house in 2007 with the goal of talking to him about the Joint Chiefs of Staff fella. I wanted him to say, oh, Steven's just making that up. I just wanted some sort of feedback or, oh yeah, it happened. But I had a friend with me who wasn't into UFOs, so I did not bring it up and I always regretted that.
00:07:32
Speaker
Great guy, Will Miller. Great guy. So fast forward 2019, Juliano Morankovitch and me and a couple of other people were in a Facebook group. He goes, guys, this is a blockbuster. Check this out. I'm looking at it. And it's like notes from Eric Davis interviewing Admiral Wilson. I'm looking like, oh my God, this is the joint chiefs guy that Greer talked about in 97. And I had.
00:07:57
Speaker
I had become friends with Eric Davis not too long before that. Maybe like within the year, I'd become friends with him and becoming pretty close friends with him. So I wrote to him right away. I'm like, what's the deal with this, Eric? And he's like, no comment.
00:08:11
Speaker
And he's not, if anybody knows Eric, he never says no comment. He talks forever. He writes forever. It's the best private message messages you'll ever want to get because his memory is amazing. And he knows so many details. So that was what happened. And supposedly in 2002, he met with Admiral Wilson who wanted allegedly, apparently wanted to get this off of his chest. He talked to Oak Shannon who was a scientist at where is it? Los Alamos. Um,
00:08:38
Speaker
Shannon knew Eric Davis. He knew Admiral Wilson. Wilson said, can you vouch for me? Can you vouch for Davis? Is he somebody worthwhile? Can I talk to him about what happened in 97? And in 97, Wilson did allegedly find this alleged crash retrieval program. He went to where it was. He flew out there and they told him, sorry.
00:08:56
Speaker
We'll tell you what the program is about. It's a non-human crashed retrieval program. We have an intact craft, but we're not going to give you a tour. You're not on the bigot list. I'm sorry. You do not have a need to know. So Wilson was rejected. So then five years later, he's telling Eric Davis all of the details of what happened when he was rejected. Davis
00:09:17
Speaker
As the notes he gives copies to at least Edgar Mitchell and some other folks connected to NIDS. I'm not sure if it was specifically a NIDS issue and NIDS was started by Robert Bigelow to investigate paranormal phenomena, UFOs, life after death.
00:09:31
Speaker
So that leaked out in 2019 and then I wrote a blog about it and details have been coming out since then. I mean, recently we had Eric Davis and a private Facebook group say to Peter LaVenda who LaVenda said, well, some of the, some of the notes are not true. It's a mix of lies, lies and truth. Eric Davis jumped in because somebody posted that on this Facebook group and Davis said,
00:09:54
Speaker
One should not comment on the validity of, and I'm paraphrasing, the validity of a document unless one is in the no. In other words, if you're not in the no, don't say anything about it. And Eric knew I was working on a mega blog. I told him I was working all day and all night on something related to Wilson Davis. Not once did he say, wink, wink,
00:10:17
Speaker
don't waste your time. He would have told me, I'm confident he would have said something. He even gave me a quote for it about how it leaked from the Mitchell estate. And then he talked about how he had advice for somebody at his job, legal advice to not talk about it because in the Trump and Obama administration, they were coming down really hard on whistleblowers. And this was potentially classified information. And he just, you know, he was told just not comment and other people commented. Their comments were like put off, made a comment at a lecture saying,
00:10:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that interview that Eric gave Eric did of Admiral Wilson. And it's like, oh, he just admitted it. But then later on, he's like, oh, I couldn't hear properly. I misspoke. And, you know, there's there's been non denial denials. And then now we have Congressman Gallagher, who
00:11:05
Speaker
Gary Davis, Gary Nolan from Stanford, an immunologist said that he had briefed Gallagher on Wilson Davis. And then he entered those, Gallagher entered the Wilson Davis notes into the public record during the congressional hearing on UFOs in May, first time in 50 something years that we've had UFOs discussed. So it's official now, that doesn't mean they're real, but I have no doubt that that meeting took place.
00:11:32
Speaker
Nolan said that I was in a group with Eric Davis before I knew, I knew about the Wilson Davis documents before they even leaked. Um, and you know, it's basically saying, he's basically saying Eric Davis told him they're real without actually saying that and burning Eric Davis. Although I don't think Davis would get in trouble at this point. Um, so yeah, I think, tell me if I left anything out. I think that's where we stand. There are other people that have spoken out, um, you know, over the years and,
00:12:00
Speaker
There are people who still think it's fake. Yeah, I think we'll always have that. But we've got Melinda Leslie in here. Hello, Melinda. She says, Joe, will you be bringing up the Shannon help documents and how they support Wilson Davis? So, yeah, by all means, they came out in the last few weeks. So, yeah, what did you think about those two? I will admit I read.
00:12:20
Speaker
I read the Shannon notes. I have not Melinda. I am so behind on stuff. I haven't read the house notes yet. So I need to read that. Um, I don't know in the Shannon notes. I didn't see anything that confirmed Wilson Davis J from project unity interviewed Oak Shannon. And a big part of that interview interview is Oak Shannon said, um, yeah, Admiral Wilson called me and wanted me to, you know, vouch for Eric Davis and.
00:12:46
Speaker
Oak Shannon also said he was dealing with a heart attack, post heart attack symptoms at the time. That's in the notes. So that confirms that part of it. He cannot confirm whether or not they actually met, but I will tell you Vinny.
00:12:59
Speaker
I have really good sources on this. They met. He interviewed Admiral Wilson. That's not in question for me, most people either. But did Admiral Wilson really, was he really told that there's an intact craft by this program manager in this crash retrieval and reverse engineering program? And if he was told that, is that the truth? Well, now we have whistleblowers ready to come forward. Is that what they're gonna talk about? That's really what the focus is. Wilson Davis is kind of a,
00:13:25
Speaker
A secondary issue right now, if we have whistleblowers who work in that program, that's who we care about. I don't think we're going to hear from those people. And one reason is, I tweeted out today, we still don't know about JFK and his assassination. Those documents were supposed to be released so many times, and whoever's in charge of releasing them is not releasing them for some reason. And Congress has demanded it.
00:13:49
Speaker
They're not releasing them. Congress can say whatever they want. So what's going to happen now with Congress? I think Congress can speak to whistleblowers, but I don't think Congress can demand anybody to release their craft if they have one or really smoking gun documents or videos. So I think we're going to come to an impasse. I don't know how Congress is going to get around that. They may have to go to the Supreme Court, but in the past,
00:14:10
Speaker
The higher courts have ruled in favor of national security, so we might be screwed. And I don't want to be negative. I mean, I'm happy with everything that's going on, obviously, especially if whistleblowers are going to speak to Congress and to the new UFO office behind the scenes. But for us to have impact on the world, it has to be public.
00:14:29
Speaker
And I don't think people speaking, somebody saying, I worked in the craft retrieval program and I worked on an intact craft. I don't think that's enough for most people who are not interested in
Theories on UFO Origins and Influences
00:14:39
Speaker
this subject. I think they need to see it at least pictures and video. And then maybe, and I always joke on the hall, you know, down the hallway.
00:14:47
Speaker
down the aisle of Congress, they need to roll the intact craft in with the bodies right there. Like, here you go. For a lot of people, that's what they're gonna need. And then we're gonna blow their minds and say, by the way, there's a really good chance these are not extraterrestrial. They're interdimensional. That was created by an incredible intelligence that can super 3D print bodies and crafts. So yeah, that's where we are. Have a great day, everybody. And we can't help them also, so.
00:15:12
Speaker
Uh, Jonathan Davis says, uh, I'm told that the doc is not needed. The whistle blowers coming forward will be just as big. So I've heard, I've heard similar things as well behind the scenes, you know, but we just don't know, do we until it actually, uh, you know, manifests and happens. So we'll see for the members of Congress and for the members of arrow, the, the office, the UFO office, who cares about Wilson Davis at that point. I mean, you want the whistleblowers, although I would love for Adam Wilson be the first one up there saying.
00:15:41
Speaker
I was turned down from a program that I felt I should have had oversight on. There's no reason for somebody who's the Vice Director of Intelligence for the United States of America to not know about that program and not be read in. That would be my first start. Eric Davis being there.
00:15:57
Speaker
I'm not sure if that's important because he interviewed Admiral Wilson, but Eric Davis may have other information. I would love to see him speak. And then the whistleblowers, if they've worked in that program, that's huge. The document at that point, we're like, all right, it's a document. We have the people right in front of us. Yeah, that's a fair point. Melinda's just raised this as well, which is asking about the AP10 reference in the Shannon notes and the security clearance form from Los Alamos, asking for the skiff at BDM, both back up Wilson's comments regarding them. Yeah, and that's John Alexander.
00:16:27
Speaker
That was an important early group and BDM is a defense contractor where they met in their vault for their meetings. So yeah, for me, it's like, it's, I don't want to use the word boring. It's not boring, but for me, it's like, I'm so beyond proving that it happened. It's like, for me, I don't even want to debate it with people anymore. I'm not saying Melinda's debating it. Melinda's providing information to back it up for people who are skeptical, which is important, but there are people who still have mentioned it being a movie script or, um,
00:16:56
Speaker
disinformation. It's maybe the whole intact craft stories in disinformation. I don't think so. But the whole meeting is a done deal. It happens. I'm trying to think of the other theory. Oh, yeah. I won't mention the name I have in the past saying that Admiral Wilson, it was an imposter. Eric Davis was fooled by an Admiral Wilson imposter. I'm like, are you kidding me? You think Eric Davis, who's Mr. Meticulous, was fooled by an Admiral Wilson imposter? And
00:17:25
Speaker
Paul, Paul, I forget Paul's last name. He's in the UK. He made a picture of the fake Admiral Wilson, Paul Reddington. And it's like, it's so great. I said, yep. He was fooled by the fake imposter. It's like, he just couldn't tell what Admiral Wilson looked like. I'm like, give me a break. That to me, I was like, whoever's saying that. I think they have ulterior motives, but just an opinion.
00:17:48
Speaker
Hey, that's fair enough. We've all got them. Absolutely. Good to see Red Panda Koala here. Shout out to, that was an awesome episode with Jesse on American Alchemy. He's got a question for you. He says, Joe, what do your insiders say about occult influence, I think that's influence, history and significance in the UFO topic. Back in, I think it was 96. I went, I took my first wife, her mom and her aunt across the state in Florida to see Richard Holgan speak.
00:18:16
Speaker
a free lecture at Brevard Community College right in the shadows of Cape Canaveral Florida where we launched rockets and the space shuttle and he talked about the NASA occult connection for five hours. It was a free lecture. I was wide awake even though I drove there and I had to drive back that night
00:18:37
Speaker
my ex, my mother-in-law and her aunt, they were all asleep by like three hours in. And I was like, this is amazing. He's connecting all of this stuff to the occult, to Nazis, to Hitler. They were launching rockets at certain dates and angles with certain stars and certain hyperdimensional physics numbers in 19.5, which Hölgen was known for. It's like, obviously they were doing that. Somebody was telling them when to launch as an homage to
00:19:05
Speaker
serious to Osiris, the belt of Osiris Orion on Hitler's birthday. There's a connection there. And plus we have the paperclips, paperclip scientists who came over after the war, who worked in NASA, NASA, Wernher von Braun.
00:19:19
Speaker
So there's definitely a cult slash Nazi influence. And it's interesting that in the Jesse Michaels, Lou interview, Lou brings up the cult connection with NASA and it's such a big connection that people will find out. I hopefully in the near future, it's a big part of somebody wanting, and I'm jumping ahead, somebody wanting to communicate with interdimensional beings, allegedly. That's why I don't think extraterrestrial is the issue here. Maybe ETs are here too, but
00:19:48
Speaker
The problem we need to deal with is related to interdimensional beings mentioned in the Bible, in the Quran, all holy books. People may be humans trying to communicate with them and then maybe humans, we can get down, we can get into the interdimensional problem. Basically, the one story that's come out since the early 1900s and it's controversial is there are certain beings, I think they're parasites. I stole that idea from Paul Eno, a researcher,
00:20:18
Speaker
they feed off of negativity from human emotion, which sounds ridiculous. And I've had people say, really? They're feeding off of our emotions. How does that work? I don't know. I've heard it. The first time I heard it was I went to these lectures in the mid-90s in Florida, like, 97, where somebody at that, it was a workshop. And every week, I would go. And this one person said, oh, yeah, these beings feed off your negative emotions. I'm like, what the hell is that? What are you talking about? And then I did some research recently. And Rudolf Steiner mentions it.
00:20:49
Speaker
I'm trying to think who mentions his Carlos Castaneda, who people say was writing fiction, but he did mention it in his books. Tom DeLong mentioned it. He goes, love is like a nuclear missile to the heart of the UFO. They feed off negative emotions. And then, interesting, one of the books that Lou recommends, Chains of the Sea, and which I was told behind the scenes is even more accurate about our current situation and our future than people realize.
00:21:15
Speaker
talks about these beings. They call them, I think they call them others, various others that feed off of humans. Different beings get different things from us. And then they also feed off of other animals. And I know it's fiction, but like I said, the person who told me that said there are a lot of details in that book that really hit home as far as accuracy.
00:21:35
Speaker
I won't say who that person is, but they're, they're a well-known name in our, in our community. So if, and this is the theory and we can talk also controversial David Ike, he's talked about it too. If they're, if they're feeding off of negativity, is that why the world is filled with negativity? Have there been humans that have done something to try to communicate with these beings in exchange, they help shape the world where it is. You talk about the elite, it's massive conspiracy. I know what it sounds like.
00:22:04
Speaker
I don't say I believe it, but it's definitely something I'm in and that's not new to me. I, I've been into this for such a long time since 96 and it came up early back then and I dismissed it. It's so out there and it's so conspiratorial. Even when I hear it now, Vinny, I'm listening to Ike's new book and I'm like, this is so conspiratorial. I'll reject this for now and I'll focus on the stuff I agree with, or, or at least may.
00:22:28
Speaker
you know, I may share the same opinion. So, and I know I'm rambling now, but there's so much going on in the past three weeks or so. It's like, I've changed my focus and I know people, I've lost followers because of it because people think I'm sharing somebody Ike who's sharing, who's spreading hate. And I've never gotten that from him. I've attended his lectures 96. I saw him with 20 people in Florida with my first wife and we loved it. Somebody had told me earlier in the day, Hey, there's this guy, David Ike, he's going to speak about the new world order. And I'm like,
00:22:57
Speaker
What is the new world order? I have no idea what that is. He goes, just go, just go. So it was 20 bucks or 15 bucks, 20 people there. And he spoke and I was like, this is really good stuff. And at the very end, somebody in the back, the guy goes, I'm having these abduction type experiences, but they're reptilian beans. And Ike, I remember he's like, I'm starting to get those reports. I'm looking into it. So that was a very big, the early start for him. Um, I've seen him lecture for nine hours.
00:23:25
Speaker
amazing, not bored one. So all of that stuff together. And then we could talk cyclical cataclysms, or we can go off on so many different tangents. So I'm really enjoying, I actually enjoy all this stuff. I don't, I don't think of it as negative, like people are like,
00:23:41
Speaker
you're focusing on the negative and these negative emotions and these beings. I'm like, no, I love it. I love it. It's like I'm not I'm in a good mood all the time. I'm just up till three in the morning finding new stuff. And I'm so tired, but I'm enjoying it. So yeah, the one thing I found similar, I listen and watch all sorts of things that, you know, someone might look at that and go, what on earth are you watching that for? And it's like, well, I'm absorbing everything just so that I'm not sort of focusing on one narrow, you know, echo chamber.
00:24:11
Speaker
And yeah, most of it probably is crazy, but at least, you know, if anything ever comes up in the future, you can be like, Oh, I heard that here. And maybe then start putting little puzzle pieces together. Maybe it's a waste of time, but that's just the
Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Secrecy
00:24:24
Speaker
way it is. I'm afraid. So one important thing I know with Ike, people accuse him of, and I'm not going to use certain words. I don't want to get your channel in trouble because certain things will give you a strike and he's been accused of spreading hate.
00:24:38
Speaker
If I actually thought he was spreading hate, I would not mention his work. I would find other sources of information to get that information to people. A lot of his stuff is only him saying it, but there are other places I can find certain information, so I would not share it. I do not believe what people claim he is.
00:24:57
Speaker
just know that if i did i would not share it i'm not that i'm not the kind of person that says screw you all right maybe he's full of hate but i'm gonna share that information nope that's not me i just don't agree that he's that if you read his books attend his lectures you'll see that so just wanted to say that no fair enough absolutely one thing i wanted to talk to you about is your relationship with george nap and jeremy corbell and sort of if you could sort of go back to sort of how that sort of started and then sort of moving into their work and and everything right up to sort of up to now as it were
00:25:27
Speaker
I was probably fall of 2017. I wrote Nap a DM. He had followed me on Twitter and we started conversing back and forth and that's how that relationship started. And then I don't remember when it was, but he had me and Danny Silva on Coast to Coast.
00:25:48
Speaker
a few times and then Ryan post disclosure UFO Jesus was on the last time we were on and then Korbel I would interact with on Twitter and then the same thing we started private you know messaging and then back and forth some phone calls and then recently I saw that Korbel and Napper speaking at the Star Trek convention and I had already met Korbel at I I got invited to the Skinwalker Ranch premiere here and then I attended the the Lazar premiere in Los Angeles
00:26:18
Speaker
So I saw him and nap here. And then I saw him and nap at UFO mega con a few years ago. So I had seen him in person, but then now that I consider them friends, I said, Hey, you're going to be in for the convention. You want to get together for lunch and Corbell's just said, just come down to the conference. So I did. So I hung out with them in the hotel room beforehand. And then afterwards we went and got some food. And during that conference, that lecture about UFOs, one on one, which Jeremy said, you're going to be bored. It's UFOs one on one. I'm like, I don't care. I mean, I love this stuff. It's fine.
00:26:48
Speaker
Most of the questions were about Lazar and then Corbell says, oh, by the way, we were supposed to go on coast to coast tonight. But for the first time since I've been investigating UFOs, there was some suppression efforts that went on and we're not doing it. It's a big, big detail that people need to look over and Corbell has not expanded on it.
00:27:07
Speaker
I think it was related to 2000, 2019 and his witnesses, but I don't know for sure. So hopefully we'll hear more about that. Um, you hear from Lou over the years, there's been a group allegedly from somebody that Lou was close to who worked in UFOs that would come in and grab UFO data. They would engage in intimidation. Um, that goes on. I've heard intimidation stories too, from other people that are not even public. So I don't know. Hopefully it's not,
00:27:35
Speaker
I mean, we talk about whistleblowers needing protection and who knows? I don't, if, if is, you know, my most out there theory that I talks about, if that's true, the people who have the secret are going to do whatever they can to keep it. I don't know how far they would go, but if I'm a whistleblower, I'm saying you need to make sure 100% I am safe 24 seven, my family,
00:28:01
Speaker
total protection. I made a joke that it's kind of like the UFO version of a witness protection program, but it kind of is. This is the biggest story in the history of the planet. If we think it is what we think it is, you know, especially if it starts getting into some of the conspiracy stuff with humans being involved. So you need protection. So I don't, I, if I'm one of those whistleblowers, I would be concerned right now. And I don't want to,
00:28:22
Speaker
I don't want to put it out there because people are saying, well, UFO Twitter is keeping those people from coming forward. No, I don't think so. I think it's very, I think it's a very common sense thing to make sure they have protection. And I'm sure they, they show, I'm sure that I'm not saying anything that they don't already know. So let's see where that goes because I don't, I'm not, I'm a little skeptical that it's going to come out because.
00:28:44
Speaker
I don't know how far Congress can go, how much power Congress has to force information to come out, and how much will they have to keep pushing at it, because they're going to need to do that.
00:28:56
Speaker
Absolutely. And one thing that I'm not convinced about is we've seen multiple iterations of a UFO office over the last couple of years. It just keeps changing, restaffing. And how are they ever going to get any work done if they're just forever changing and that? So maybe it's going to take another new office to be formulated, which supposedly is happening. And then a bit of time, a time for them to actually do some work. Maybe then things will start moving. I don't know. I just everything seems to be moving quickly again. And I'm just
00:29:26
Speaker
trying to look at it you know taking a step back and not expecting it all to come out really really quick yeah that's a good attitude you know and if we get surprises along the way great i mean i'm not saying i mean i did did not think we were going to have hearings this year because i was told a source said that there was nothing in the works but it happened so i was like yeah i was wrong person who told me it was wrong i was happy i mean obviously it's not exactly what we wanted you know the hearings it was a start but
00:29:53
Speaker
For me, I want the whole OSAP stuff to be discussed because that goes down the interdimensional being route and hitchhikers and all that stuff. And why are they here? And George Knapp spoke about, and Knapp and Kelleher spoke about these beings possibly creating fear artificially because they get something from it. So that's brought up in Hunt for the Skinwalker.
00:30:14
Speaker
And now we have skin workers at the Pentagon talking about hitchhikers, which I'd never heard before. And that goes into poltergeist cases, too. There are other books out there before skinwalkers at the Pentagon came out that talk about that same thing, hitchhiker phenomenon. So I think that's important, too. And I do have theories on that, but it's just a theory. So.
00:30:32
Speaker
No, that's fair enough. It's good to have theories, good to speculate, as long as you don't put it across as factual. Yeah, very rare that I'll say I know for a fact I'm like, this is an opinion, please do not box me in here. And sometimes I think out loud. And I'll put my thoughts on Twitter too soon. But I'd rather do that and say, Oh, yeah, I was wrong about that.
00:30:52
Speaker
You know, I'm just thinking out loud so you guys can see that. No, that's it. I appreciate that answer. You did mention in that last bit about Corbell and the 2019 case. And when we add that to sort of Nimitz, Theodore Roosevelt and that, and then we get into that whole conversation of, is it anomalous or is it black tech, you know, advanced drones? Where do you sit in that whole picture of that conversation?
00:31:20
Speaker
Well, in the past week, I've given more thought to the human tech on 2019, but I don't think it was testing of tech. If it's human tech that, that basically all of those ships dealt with these drone like objects that appeared where they weren't able to track them coming in. They weren't able to track them going out. So they don't know who's operating.
00:31:43
Speaker
If it's human tech, it's such advanced that it can just basically be stealth until the time where they're just right there and then hit a switch, there they are. Or it's non-human tech and it's child's play for them to, you know, basically pop in and out. I don't know which. I always leaned, I leaned non-human for a while. Now I'm probably leaning, I probably would lean human, but anomalous, definitely anomalous. And then you ask why, why would that go on? And my theory would be,
00:32:13
Speaker
whatever that is, is basically trying to send a message. I would think it's not US tech. I don't think it was testing. Maybe it was a non-governmental group saying, look, this is our technology. This is what we can do. You can't stop it. So you better do what we're saying. And I've never said that publicly before because
00:32:31
Speaker
I know it's not more conspiratorial, but I would I think there's another group out there, a human group that's not connected to a government that has some of this technology, which gets me into my my Kit Green interview, which I know people are waiting for. There's a holdup because at the end he talks about a non-government group. He thinks that's responsible for some of this. He actually also talks about Calaris, where he thinks it was a human group. And I thought about it. I'm like, you know what, you might be right, because
00:32:59
Speaker
Kalaris does not match any other UFO cases. Like all of a sudden, whatever non-human intelligence is gonna just start shooting beams at people and killing them. I mean, maybe it was, maybe it wasn't non-human, it just doesn't fit. So you get into, if it wasn't, who was that group? And I don't think it was, he says, I don't think it was the United States government. And he throws the N word in there, Nazis. He brought it up. You hear stories about them relocating in Argentina.
00:33:27
Speaker
Did they have a breakthrough at some point? They're known for occult, you know, all the occult that Hitler was interested in. Did they have a breakthrough with these interdimensional beings? Did they develop technology that way? I don't know. Um, this is stuff that Lou brought up the NASA occult connection. So anybody who interviews him again, assuming Jesse hasn't asked him about it, somebody needs to ask him and he'll ask and he'll answer. I'm sure if it's not classified, obviously he may pass because I've asked him stuff where he, I don't think it was classified.
00:33:56
Speaker
you have classified and you have sensitive information. A lot of these guys will not talk about sensitive information, which bothers me. Um, I was told sensitive information that I could not share publicly. And it was like, well, it's like, if it's not classified, let me share it. And like, no, it's too embarrassing for the U S government. That's ridiculous. You know, so that's their time. I understand. I mean, but it frustrates me classified. Okay. Sensitive. No, let me share it. So yeah. Um,
00:34:24
Speaker
there are questions that Lou can be asked about a lot of stuff. And we haven't, you and I, we haven't even talked yet about the reincarnation stuff. All that stuff plays into this if the theory is right. And I think I have not a strong opinion, but I have a nice, I'm trying to think of the word. My opinion is that all of this stuff plays in together, whether it's interdimensional, black technology, maybe, maybe Nazi technology, interdimensional, um,
00:34:52
Speaker
and the reincarnation stuff, which we can maybe get into later on, which for me, I have no doubt. The evidence for reincarnation is very strong. Whether it's connected to this whole conspiracy, I don't know. And I know for a lot of people, that's way too much. So far out of the box, there are some people who are nuts and bolts people who don't want it. I'd say 90% of what I said today is nonsense to them.
Reincarnation and its Connection to UFOs
00:35:14
Speaker
And then you have people that are somewhere above here, and then you go into reincarnation. They're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:35:21
Speaker
But the evidence, if you look at Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker, the evidence for reincarnation is really strong. There's been psychology today, and I think Scientific American had articles based on Ian Stevenson's work. The guy studied 3,000 children cases of reincarnation, alleged reincarnation. Leslie Kane wrote about it in her book, her life after death book. So I think it's a part of this whole story, but it's a lot for people to accept.
00:35:48
Speaker
I'm still going there on Twitter. I'll go here on any show. People ask me about it, but and I have asked people behind the scenes and I will continue to hold on. Give me a second mini scratching.
00:36:03
Speaker
Guys, I have been seeing your questions. I think I've got them all lined up. Keep them coming. But please pop them in capital letters. It just stands out because I've got my notes and obviously all sorts going on. So I will continue to ask sources. I will not hold back. I will say, hey, this is my theory. Am I off on the wrong track? Am I wasting my time? Some of them, I've already had feedback on some stuff. Oh, I don't. Yeah, I don't think so. But I'm like, all right, I don't agree with you. But that's fine. I know they have different views behind the scenes. All the players, they don't agree on stuff.
00:36:33
Speaker
I definitely would like to get some of their opinions and I will continue to do that. But I'll continue to share stuff. And like I say on Twitter, if something I share offends you, I'm sorry, you can unfollow. I totally understand. But this is where I feel like I need to go. And it's something I got into early on and I made a complete circle. So here I am. No, that's I think it's a great thing, you know.
00:36:54
Speaker
I like to think I've got an open mind. Sometimes it's difficult when you hear one part of the subject. You're like, you know, that just sounds too crazy. But then if you don't know, then we don't know. So, you know, I think it's brave that you're willing to go out onto those those extremes and that. And I'll always listen to those kind of things. And we'll definitely get into the reincarnation stuff in a bit. But a follow on question here from number two, please ask Joe his takes on Timothy Taylor and Kit Green.
00:37:21
Speaker
Tim Taylor, I don't know a lot about Tim Taylor. I know he has his ritual that he goes through that Diana Pasalka spoke about. And he may be getting information from, although I've heard people skeptical that his information is helpful. And he's developed amazing technology based on his protocols of how to communicate with whatever he's communicating with.
00:37:52
Speaker
Kit Green, I'm sorry, I don't know a ton about Timothy Taylor, but Kit Green, and somebody wants to add in and ask me a specific question about something, feel free. Kit Green, I wrote to Kit Green in 2019, I said,
00:38:06
Speaker
I really don't know, I'm really open. I don't know what UFOs represent. And I went through, basically somebody, I forgot to tell you, somebody shared with me an audio recording, which had been floating around, but I didn't have it. And it was of Kit Green talking with his favorite medical intuitive who was doing sessions on an experiencer. Basically she's like, this is what I'm picking up on the experiencer. What happened? What's going on with these ETs in the area and his health issues. She's more known for her medical information.
00:38:36
Speaker
So I did the whole transcript and I wrote to kick green. I'm like, hey, I got this transcript I know you probably didn't want this out, but I have it. I'm putting it on my blog I go. Can I also interview you and he goes? Yeah, you can Yeah, he let me interview him in 2019 December. I have not put it out yet. It's almost done I'm just I'm just hung up on the on the human tech aspect trying to figure out where I want to go because I usually add stuff to the Transcripts. I'll add links in my own thoughts. Yeah, that part is hanging me up. So I
00:39:05
Speaker
he let me interview him. It was probably like a couple of hours, a really smart guy. And at the time I had an opinion when he was speaking about black technology, I'm like, ah, this is Kit just being skeptical and just being the, you know, giving the devil's advocate and he's just not wanting to talk about non-human technology or non-human intelligence. But three years later, I don't think that's what was going on. I mean, I mean, yeah, he works in a medical practice. He has to be careful what he says. Um, but
00:39:36
Speaker
he shared a story about his parents having a UFO sighting in Wisconsin in the early 30s of a classic flying saucer coming out of the water with multiple witnesses. It was in Wisconsin. So obviously that's not black tech, I would say. I don't think he thinks it's extraterrestrial either. So I would really be, we don't go down the interdimensional route in that interview. I wish I had been where I am now back then, because I would have asked him about it.
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, he's a really interesting guy. He was back in the early days of the remote viewing program. He's right there. Um, he was on the UFO desk and in my interview, I said, he goes, the UFO desk was, you know, we did remote viewing and some UFO cases, three cases. I had three classified documents on UFOs, um, bent waters because of the nuke angle. Yeah. I think Clarice, and then I forget what the other one was.
00:40:32
Speaker
I think it was Tehran, 77 Iran case. So he goes, I said, are you frustrated that you spent such a, you spent such a small time amount of your small, such a small amount in your life has been spent on UFOs, but you're known as the UFO desk guy. And he's like, I said, is that frustrating? He goes, he says, it freaking really upsets me. He's like, he was upset. You know, not really upset with me, but yeah. Um, but he goes, but hey, it's not true. It's not, not untrue. I do do that. Um,
00:41:02
Speaker
He is the one, I believe, when Jim Semivan, the former CIA spy, he had his abduction, but he also had a hooded being. He says, walked through his wall, and it was the same night his friend died. And there might be a connection. So yeah, this was after his abduction. I don't know the year of it. He had this hooded being come in, stay there, and then walk right through the wall again.
00:41:27
Speaker
And he said that I think he didn't say who the person was, but he says a doctor who has a temper wanted me to communicate with that being. And I told him, I'm not interested in communicating with that. I'm pretty sure that was Kit Green who told him to go communicate because Kit does have a temper. Some of the emails we exchanged were on good terms right now. No problem. It was just something we had a disagreement on. But I think that was Kit Green. I think Kit Green realizes, I think
00:41:56
Speaker
If I were to interview Kid Green today and talk about interdimensional, he may be a lot more open. But I'm not sure. Like I said, he works in a medical practice and you have a reputation. You don't want to be known as the medical practice that has that crazy guy who talks about interdimensional beings. So he has to be careful, obviously. He still works. I think he's in his 70s. Still really sharp, though. Yeah.
00:42:17
Speaker
So, you know, you're talking about inter-dimensionals a lot more kind of higher than the ET hypotheses, but where does the kind of ultra-terrestrial fit in for you? You know, we recently saw Putoff's paper come out, so is that still kind of hovering in between for you? I think ultra-terrestrial is really inter-dimensional. Is it possible there's also something that was on this planet that was here, like the Atlantis theory? Yeah, it's possible, but
00:42:42
Speaker
When, when I hear keel talk about ultra terrestrial, it's to me, it's 100% interdimensional that has amazing abilities that can see the past future. Uh, he thinks, he thinks psychics and mediums are communicating with these beings, um, that were not mediums are not talking to the dead. And these beings will mess with us as, as Jim semi-van says, you know, he says, they're effing with us. They're effing with us. Um, those are the same inter-dimensionals. I think, um, they also heal people. People have gotten healed. So it's like.
00:43:12
Speaker
I think I personally think. And this is this is not a strong opinion. I think maybe some of those beings who are doing the healing are the same one, negative wise, but it's propaganda. Propaganda is a part of this. If you read Linda Moulton's how Linda Moulton, how people are like, oh, Linda Moulton, how I'm like, listen, I've criticized her, too. But in her book, Limpses of Other Realities, volume two, she talks about the writers who communicated with Ray Beaucher
00:43:40
Speaker
And I may be saying his name wrong. He's a reverend. And they were talking about how there was two DOD people that showed Ray their credentials. And they said, in these programs, there are people in these Black programs that try to communicate with these interdimensional beings. And they believe that they're using these beings. But meanwhile, Ray's like, these guys are like, no, these beings are using them for technology. And I forgot where I was going, Vinny. What was I just saying about before that?
00:44:11
Speaker
Uh, what kind of ultra terrestrial interdimensional crossovers, uh, Linda Montan, how Linda mountain house. So yeah. Um, I forgot what I say about that, but it's in her book and I will pull that out. It's also on Ray Bush's website. He has, he has all of his work for free on his website. If you just type in his name, B O E C H E Reverend Ray Bush. And he has all of that interaction that was from the book. It's also online. You can read about it. And.
00:44:41
Speaker
The person, one of my sources told me, read Boucher, read Valet, read Pasulka. Those are the three. I think those are all in an interdimensional realm. Like I said, and I had somebody also tell me that the aliens slash ETs are the ones we know the least amount about, really don't know. So I get, I don't get confused, but I get hung up on
00:45:07
Speaker
abductions, are they really, I think some abductions are these inter-dimensionals making it look like a physical abduction, whether it's technology, I don't know how they do it. Slide nine activities, slide nine abilities, um, being able to cognitively interface with us. But maybe there's also ETs that are doing it too, because I think it was John lamb lash who wrote in his image, he talks about how these beings are con slash these inter-dimensionals, all the same thing. And maybe there are different groups, but how they, they,
00:45:35
Speaker
They really love to engage in mimicry. They'll do something that already exists. And then they'll do it too, just to throw people off. Wait a second. Was that extraterrestrial? Was it physical? Was it non-physical? Is it interdimensional? Is it black technology? And basically we'll all debate it for the next 30 years because there's enough there for everybody to have the discussion and everybody to make their points. And meanwhile, we never come to a conclusion.
Public Perception and Skepticism in UFO Beliefs
00:46:01
Speaker
A friend of mine, my friend who I interviewed for my Twitter yesterday, who I stayed with in LA, he's the one that brought up. He's like, yeah, they'll give you enough just so the conversation goes around and around and around. And John Lamb Lash is like, that's what they do. They're not creative beings. They could just, they just mimic stuff and confuse. And I've used the word misdirection. Other people I've used misdirection, um, making it look extraterrestrial. So we're looking out there. Meanwhile, they're here. They're doing what they do. So.
00:46:30
Speaker
No, I've come across the rabies show a few times and I've kind of, I'll be like, that's a big rabbit hole. Uh, and I never got around to sort of jumping into it, but you know, maybe he's very, very, very Christian and I am not very Christian. Although like I grew up Catholic and then went to born again, Christian church. Um, but a lot of what he says, you know, I'm open to it. I was trying to interview him. I have not been able to contact him recently. Hopefully he's okay. So yeah, I know for a lot of people, a lot of this stuff, it's, um,
00:46:59
Speaker
Bill Bengtson, who does healing of mice with his technique, which I'm going to interview on November 1st, he talks about the boggle factor. So there's a certain level. Bigfoot people will get to the certain level, like, yeah, Bigfoot is real. And then you say, what about psychic Bigfoot? Nope, nope, nope, nope. So it's like that with everything. They talk about that in hunt for the skinwalker too, in the book, there's a level. So everybody has their comfort level. And once you go past that, people will turn off.
00:47:24
Speaker
I don't have that. I don't have that. It's like, obviously some stuff I'm like, that sounds ridiculous. I'll keep it over here for now. Um, especially some of the, I forget the guy's name. Randy Kramer talks about Mantis beings and reptilians fighting on Mars. That's like, all right. I don't think that's the case. Or there's supposedly a portal in, in Elsa, Gundo, California, where you can just transfer over to another planet. I'm like, all right. I hope that's true.
00:47:53
Speaker
I don't think it is. It's a little too far out for me and I'll keep that way over there just in the back of my mind. I think it's nonsense, but you never know.
00:48:01
Speaker
No, of course, of course. Before we get into the reincarnation again, I'd just like to touch upon briefly the recent James Fox documentary moment of contact that came out yesterday, I believe it was. Yeah, yesterday. Now, I was lucky enough to see an early edit of it, or I'm going back two or three months now, which I found, you know, really good, really well laid out case and then watch the final product. And, you know, for me,
00:48:27
Speaker
You'll get no complaints from me really on James Fox. I think it lays out the case. Well, do I think it progresses the case any further? Unfortunately not, but you know, let me, let me hear your thoughts on it. Cause I know you went to the premiere. Yeah, I went to the premiere in LA and I drove and when I got there, I picked up my friend and when I got to the movie, I was tired. So I was, I was falling asleep throughout the entire thing. Luckily I did not snore because I asked my friend, I'm like, did I snore? He's like, no, I'm like, good. Um, so I liked it, but.
00:48:57
Speaker
It was too many talking heads for me and being so tired, I need to watch it again. I love that they went to the alleged crash site and crash site. And I'm sorry if people haven't seen it, but the witness believes this was the crash site. So it was emotional and new interviews with people. And then another guy claiming he's going to shoot them if they don't get off his property. Things I wanted to see, I wanted to see them investigate the property, the land, see if they could find any materials, any radiation, anything like that.
00:49:26
Speaker
I mean, you know, I realized funding is limited and I'll have to go back and do that. And it's a first step for the movie. On Twitter, I said I was a little bored. I was because talking heads, you know, it's like there's only so many talking heads I can see. And I know James is limited and I love James Fox. I love his work. He's one of the best things in this field, you know. So I'm not down on him at all. And I know people probably don't like that. I'm not raving about the movie, but I think it's important, especially historical.
00:49:54
Speaker
whatever that is, I don't know if it was an extraterrestrial craft with a being that was in trouble and you know, like, oh my God, this little being, he needs help. I don't know if that's the case or if that was propaganda from the interdimensional thing because somebody said today in the movie, they brought it up. It smelled like sulfur. You look, there's so many cases like that related to sulfur. Somebody said in the Bible, the word brimstone is sulfur. It's like the smell of sulfur or the sulfur. You look at it, it's everywhere. So,
00:50:22
Speaker
And there's stuff from the Lord that's not positive. There's a lot of negativity there. So it might be connected to that interdimensional thing. What we talk about interdimensional force intelligence. So but that's a theory. So am I open to it being an extraterrestrial craft? I am. You know, it starts off. The movie starts off with supposedly Norad warned Brazil about this, that you have a craft coming in.
00:50:47
Speaker
So yeah, more, I don't know. We, even if we get video or pictures that he's trying to get, he said a lot of money has been offered for that, but they've rejected it. He said that in the Q and a, and he said it on interviews. How are we going to confirm it? That's even authentic. How do you, you know, it's like, it may look amazing. I'm like, there it is. It's got red eyes, the three claws, whatever it was.
00:51:07
Speaker
Um, how do we confirm that? How do you authenticate something like that? You know, yeah, absolutely. I mean, he was on an interview what two or three hours ago with max muskovich, which I watched. And yeah, he's like 99.9% convinced that videos and photos do exist. And, you know, his confidence is obviously very clear and very high. And yeah, he did say there's a big amount of money. So, you know,
00:51:32
Speaker
He was hesitant in parts of the interview as well about what he wanted to say. You could see he wanted to say more, but so I think it'll be interesting to see where that story goes, but hopefully we'll get more on that case. And it's not just his documentary end of right on onto the next thing. So great. Yeah, it's a great first step.
00:51:49
Speaker
Something that would be important if it wasn't just a being, but if it was the being and the military people who you could see and identify, that would be huge. Then you could talk to those folks and if they say, yeah, I was there, that's the being. We had the guy who died from being too close. That, for me, suggests something extraterrestrial that he had an interaction with.
00:52:13
Speaker
And I know people think it's a major stretch in me being cynical by saying it might not be ET. It might be some sort of, and let me just preface that John Alexander talked about Skinwalker Ranch and this intelligence having a precognitive sentient phenomenon. I mean, it's basically, it would be always one step ahead. It knew what was coming. John Keel says they know the past, present, and future. So I don't know who it was. I think, or here we go, the Linda Moulton Howe, the writers from the DOD told Bosch
00:52:43
Speaker
that don't even put it beyond these beings to actually put stuff in the past, knowing that in the future, it's going to be referred to, if they're trying to trick us, meaning ancient, maybe Sumerian, the stories about these beings coming down and might have been planted to be brought up now, you know, hundreds of years later, or in the case of Brazil, 96,
00:53:06
Speaker
so people can look back and say, oh yeah, it's extraterrestrial, all those poor little beings. So it's propaganda, misdirection, that needs to be part of the story when you hear it from several places. So yeah, I just want to keep my mind open to that possibility.
Exploring Reincarnation Evidence
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree completely. And for everyone watching or listening, please do go out and support James and his work. It is a great piece of work. It's a very compelling case. The witness testimony is great. So let's hope we hear more on that story. Right, Joe.
00:53:36
Speaker
Let's jump into the reincarnation and that kind of, this is a side of things that I've never really, I've read about in books, but I've never. Hold on. Is that a sign?
00:53:59
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. I've still got a lot of you guys questions lined up as well. They were coming in thick and fast at one point. I'll try and get to them all, but I can't make any promises. Sorry. No, no, it's all good. That's all good. So yeah, you know, reincarnation, afterlife, near-death experiences, are they all kind of in that same realm connected in some way? Like, where does one start with that kind of thing?
00:54:21
Speaker
So, um, trying to think of when I first read many lives, many masters by Brian Weiss. So he was a psychiatrist, I think who was, he was, he was regressing his patients who were having phobias and issues in their lives. And then he noticed some of them that were jumping back to previous lives, which he wasn't interested in, but he just went with it. And he noticed when they were talking about it, it would resolve their issues. I think there was one case he was able to verify.
00:54:49
Speaker
one person maybe that they claimed to have been because that's a big issue. It's like, how do you prove that this person was that person who they claim to be? That book wasn't about that. Then I read some other books, life between life, about what goes on in between lives and how you plan it. You come in here and you
00:55:08
Speaker
You're going to play a role and you agree to come here. So that's kind of very common in the new age field. And then at some point I read Ian Stevenson's work, he investigated 3000 children's cases where the kids anyway, they're like two to five years old. They're like, when they first start to speak and put sentences together, they're saying,
00:55:26
Speaker
You're not my father. You're not my mother. My real parents are so-and-so and they'll name them and they'll even name the town. Eventually the parents will give in, they'll take them to the town and they'll meet the family. This kid said he was reincarnated from, he was in his past life and they'll name all the family members. They'll have details. There's no way the child should have known or could have known. There was one great case where this kid, this girl said that
00:55:52
Speaker
This guy, an older guy was her husband in her previous life. And then she met him and he's told her that he had remarried. And she said, you told me you would never love anybody else. How could you remarry? And the guy was so devastated because I can't meet with her again. You can't bring her again. It's just too difficult. Stories like that. There's a lot of those stories. Um, so like over 3000 cases like that, he traveled all over the world.
00:56:18
Speaker
Jim Tucker, he died, but Jim Tucker took up his work. It was at the University of Virginia. Somebody, I forget if it was related to IBM, but somebody who had a lot of money left an endowment for them to do this research. So that's how they were able to do it. So that paid for salaries and he was able to travel around. He was always like, this doesn't prove reincarnation, but it's very consistent with what you would expect if reincarnation is real. This, this goes towards that. But then you add in biological cases. There are children.
00:56:46
Speaker
when they go to verify this other person who they claim to have been in the past life, as an example, this person, and in most of these kids who remember, they died in a violent death. The majority are violent deaths. Somehow those cases are remembered, these children remember it. And there's cases where the person, the previous personality was shot in the head. So here's the entry wound, here's the exit wound. They were able to get autopsies, not in every case.
00:57:14
Speaker
In the new kid, the new reincarnation, kids got a birthmark here and a birthmark here. Or in the previous life, the kid lost an arm. In the new life, he's got a stub of an arm. So somehow it transfers over. He has an entire book about the biological evidence.
00:57:31
Speaker
That's really impressive. Like I said, that's why you see psychology today and Scientific American looking at those willing to take an article on about it, because it's so impressive. It's like this surely looks like reincarnation and the reincarnation took place in the same area, not far away. They were reincarnating within a drive, you know, an hour or two. I'm not sure exactly when. And something else, there did not seem to be anything
00:57:56
Speaker
karma. Karma doesn't seem to be a thing. It just seems like some biological, physical process that takes place. And you always hear, well, we come back because we have to learn lessons. We're going to stay here until we learn our lessons. And I don't know if it ever
00:58:12
Speaker
I don't know if I ever questioned that until recently. I heard somebody bring it up. It might have been Ike or somebody else. Now I'm like, it makes no sense. Our memories are wiped. We have no knowledge except at the childhood level. And then we forget about it as we get older. What are we supposed to learn? What are we basing in on? We have nothing to base on anything. And we're like, oh, you can't have all of your memories from these past slides. You wouldn't be able to handle it. I don't know if that's the case. So the theory is,
00:58:35
Speaker
The theory is there's some sort of trap put in place by some non-human force to make us keep coming back here. Because these beings need us over and over for whatever reason, whether it's feeding off of our negativity, they just need us to keep recycling. And there's some sort of technology put in place. It's not a new idea. I think John Lear mentioned there was some sort of soul catching device on the moon. And I remember at the time I was like,
00:59:00
Speaker
He is crazy, right? So I'm not sure if I heard it, where else I heard it. But then Ike is talking about it. There's another guy talking about it. Farsight Institute, a remote viewing group, they talk about it. Their data is coming in. You can't verify this data, obviously. They talk about death traps, which is really unpleasant. It's basically electrical shock, just whatever they need to do to make you forget before you're sent back into the system. And you hear stories about near-death experiences. I was told.
00:59:30
Speaker
I was met by my relatives, you know, yeah, they're gonna tell me and now it's not time or reincarnation you hear people in their hypnosis saying they they my relatives met me and they told me where to go or being of light said you need to go here. Listen, if if reincarnation if life after death is real,
00:59:47
Speaker
Do we really need directions on where to go in the afterlife? Is it really that complicated Vinny? It's like, is it like this massive highway? Listen, you're going to get lost. So I'm here. I'm your mom. I'm going to show you which door to go through. It makes zero sense. So I'm like, it seems like a lie. It seems like misdirection, those beings. Joe McMonocle is a remote viewer. He had this.
01:00:09
Speaker
by location event where he saw his dad on this UFO. And he goes, you're not my dad. He goes, the guy wasn't acting anything like my dad. And he just popped out. It seems like whatever this is engages in misdirection because they want us to keep coming back here. And then people are like, but that whole energy sucking energy is so ridiculous. Right off the bat, they'll close their minds to the reincarnation trap idea.
01:00:35
Speaker
But people talking about, we have to come back here and learn the lessons. It just doesn't sit right with me. And I do think the reincarnation evidence is strong. Some people will say, well, there's some other transfer, ESP, somehow those kids are getting the information about this other lifetime. It's coming through some other way. But then you have the biological evidence. So for me, I do think, I don't believe, but I'm really strong that reincarnation is legit. The whole trap thing, I don't know. But it also, it does make sense to me.
01:01:04
Speaker
So that's kind of where I'm going there. And, and like I said, I did, I've asked about it privately and it wasn't basically, I did not get a response that said, you're way off target. Cause I said, am I diluting myself? Really good source. If I'm diluting myself, tell me, and I won't waste my time. And that's not, I did not get that response back. So it was about reincarnation as a trap. And what was the other question I asked where I, where I was told something. I wasn't told, yes, that's true. But basically.
01:01:50
Speaker
It's not impossible, but I don't think that's the case here, but I'm still a little cautious and I'm really curious to see what people are thinking. They're like, what is he talking about? Do you know what? The comments seem really positive. One thing that you mentioned there is about what doesn't make sense is life lessons. And if the memory is wiped and we come back, then how are we learning? But could the subconscious connection play into that, that we may be learning on a subconscious level and building up
01:01:58
Speaker
it's been looked
01:02:14
Speaker
Kind of as we're unaware and maybe for some reason I don't know I'm just throwing throwing ideas out there. It could be and um And it's not the first time and also there are other sources that say avoid the light the light is a trick I've heard I've had somebody privately Tell me the same thing another respected same person is respected in this community. So I Don't know How would you prove that as the question? I mean, yeah, unless there's some technology
01:02:42
Speaker
If we know, and basically a lot of this falls into a lot of, some of the researchers say on this planet, we're living in a simulation that plays into that. Um, how far the simulation goes out. When did the simulation start? I don't know. Another thing, how do you approve that? I've had, like I've had sources behind the scenes, at least one source, like, no, I don't believe in the simulation, but yeah, it's really hard to prove that. So with Ike, I.
01:03:09
Speaker
I love his positive take. Basically, he's like, no matter what they throw at you, no matter what negativity, he goes, remember, just remember who you are. And people don't realize this. He talks about being a powerful spiritual being. This is a physical experience. You're so much more powerful than you realize. People have no idea how powerful we are. We're taught to forget where consciousness is just not spoken about.
Paranormal Phenomena and Personal Experiences
01:03:32
Speaker
People who expand their consciousness with ayahuasca or mushrooms is frowned upon. He goes that they don't want
01:03:38
Speaker
Whoever's in control, whether it's non-human and humans, they do not want people to realize how powerful humans are. Because if they do, the whole system comes crashing down. And that's why the secrecy and desperation to keep the secret. Because if, let's say this is a parasitic intelligence that needs to survive, that's another thing. People talk about demons. No, if it's a parasite, and Lou does have experience in parasitology,
01:04:01
Speaker
whether that's a coincidence or not. I'm skeptical that it's a coincidence. That would be one of the guys I would bring in if that's part of his resume. Parasites need to survive.
01:04:14
Speaker
They don't probably do not look at it as evil. It's like, just give me what I need. I don't care. I survive on this if it's negative energy. So yeah, not demonic, although it would come across as demonic, uh, something I've never spoken about on a show. I I've had experience that would seem demonic. It was in the summer when I was probably like.
01:04:36
Speaker
probably like 12, 13, 14, something like that. And I was sleeping in my parents' room with my sister because they had the only air conditioning in the house and it was summer and it was hot in New York. And I heard an audible, evil laugh. I mean, it was loud. First time I've ever heard anything audible. I've had my own inner voice, but this was audible and it was evil and it was a laugh. And I was like, what the hell is that? So without going into details, my house was a house where that might,
01:05:05
Speaker
Be very it might be very attractive to some negative intelligence. I'll say that it's too personal to go into on here Trauma basically there's trauma in my house One thing I could share I might I've never shared this either when I was before I was born my sister was eight years old Mother driving with my other two sisters also car gets stuck on the railroad tracks kills my sister
01:05:30
Speaker
Yeah. It's like before I was born, her name was Josephine. I was born because of that. The priest who was on the train told my parents, he goes, he, he counseled them afterwards. Luckily he was there. Father Bruce, I think he goes, uh, you should have another child. This will help you get over the loss of her. Um, so that's me. That's how I was born. So it's like.
01:05:55
Speaker
So there was trauma that started there and then later on more trauma. So maybe if, if beings focus, if beings feed off of negativity and traumas like situation, maybe that attracted them. My sister had an experience too, not good. Um, my, my middle sister, I'm the youngest, so youngest middle and then older. So yeah. Um, and I've had dreams of people dying twice. Both of them happened. I've had stuff like that happen. What is that? I don't know. Um,
01:06:21
Speaker
I don't know where I was going, but where do we even start? I don't know what you asked. That's the thing. It just seems like that aspect of the phenomenon. Just, you could just go and go and go and break off into all different branches of it. I mean, where would you suggest anybody start then? If, you know, if I, tomorrow's was like, right after what, speaking to Joe, I want to look into reincarnation. Where would I go first? All right. Let me just add one thing about, um, yeah, yeah.
01:06:47
Speaker
reincarnation. Oh, yeah. So my sister, she was eight when she died. And so that was before I was born. But when I attended a metaphysical church, the Reverend who married my first wife and I, she's no longer here, the Reverend. She would give readings on Wednesdays. We'd do psychic readings, one question, raise money for the church. I had a reading with her private, a couple of private readings, and she did a medium type reading and she brought thought. She goes, I bring forth a little girl who appears to be eight years old.
01:07:16
Speaker
She nailed the date. Yeah, I don't remember what other details. So it was really interesting whether or not she got it right. Guest, I don't know. Reincarnation. Where to start. Old Souls by Tom Schroeder. Although you can start on The Washington Post. I don't know if Tom Schroeder wrote the article or somebody else wrote the article. It was Washington Post magazine. They did a Sunday article
01:07:41
Speaker
on Ian Stevenson's work. It's a really good place to start and I could tweet it out later. I'll find it. I think it's gonna be good. Yeah, I don't have the Washington Post link, but somebody else put it on and it makes it looks it shows you what he did and how skeptical he was. And also, like I said, the Scientific American, I'll re I'll retweet and I'll tag you the Washington Post article.
01:08:03
Speaker
the Scientific American article in the Psychology Today article. And if people like that, they have Leslie Kane's book, which isn't focused on reincarnation, but she, she deals with a couple of cases. And there are, there's one case where it seems like the researcher was fooled, but overall, some of these cases are really interesting. And then Tom show, I'm not sure if Tom Schroeder followed up old souls with another book. If he has, I need to get it. He's the one who took up the work of Ian Stevenson. So that's a good place as far as a trap.
01:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't even go there yet. Ike's book, I recommended to somebody who I saw in the chat. I don't know if she's still here, Nora. I don't know if I would, and I recommended it to other people. I don't know. You really have to be open to the conspiracy stuff. Otherwise you're going to be bogged down right away. You're going to be like, this is nonsense. But chapter six, which I'm reading now, talks about reality and the simulation. And it's really, really good. And it's like I said, the message is so positive from him about love, about
01:08:58
Speaker
infinite were infinite beings. People don't realize that him. I mean,
Ayahuasca, DMT, and Spiritual Awakenings
01:09:02
Speaker
but I had his breakthrough. It was a download when he was in Peru. Basically, the information came through, he's just standing there, and I just poured into him a download. And then he had another experience when he took ayahuasca. And it was just, he said it was so impressive. When he got home, he had
01:09:17
Speaker
all total recall of everything that they told him. It was basically about simulation and stuff like that. Um, it was a woman's voice, which it usually is with ayahuasca. It's a female spirit. If it's a spirit, it's a female presence energy that comes through on ayahuasca. I would love to do ayahuasca, but I'm definitely scared because you hear all the stories between vomiting and diarrhea and, and, and I have a heart issue, which is pretty good right now. I'm not sure if I should do that. Um,
01:09:44
Speaker
And it lasts for like 12 hours and this world totally disappears. I just, somebody I worked with the other day randomly, we went out to lunch. He's like, yeah, I had, I took ayahuasca. It was amazing. And yeah, I had the opportunity in Columbia at the start of the year with a shaman and I didn't do it, you know? But the good thing is when I, when I didn't do it, I actually got to see the phenomena that I was there for. So kind of, you know, swings and roundabouts. So.
01:10:10
Speaker
It was all good. It was worth it. It's a big stuff. I mean, that's a really big stuff. Yeah. We talk about mushrooms and stuff like that. But this ayahuasca DMT, if there's a new DMT, that's supposedly, I forget what it's called, but Graham Hancock talks about it, but that lasts like 15 minutes. So maybe, maybe I would consider doing that, but ayahuasca 12 hours. Well, that's a lot of you have a bad trip and people do have bad experiences. Yeah. It lasts for 12 hours. So you're kind of screwed with hours. Yeah.
01:10:41
Speaker
Go on. No, there's a woman here, Kat Courtney, who was doing a lot of ceremonies around the United States. And then she got arrested for DMT distribution, which was total bogus. But she got a year probation. So she's just doing classes right now. Amazing shaman, if you want to not go to another country. Although I don't think she could do it here again. She'll have to go to Costa Rica and host it. But she's amazing. From everything I know about her, amazing shaman.
01:11:10
Speaker
Well, I'm going back out to Columbia in February, March 23. So, hey, maybe I'll be, you know, ready for it then. I'll see. I just don't know
Interdimensional Theories and Extraterrestrial Assistance
01:11:21
Speaker
until I'm there. Listen, Joe, before I let you go, I've got a couple of questions here from the viewers. So Jornae asks, Joe, do you think we will, Abe, will we, do you think we will be able to fully grasp the vastness of the phenomena, like really understand it? I don't know the vastness of everything because
01:11:41
Speaker
You know, I've heard about E.T., time travel, interdimensional Bigfoot. I heard that behind the scene. What I would love if if we're in a simulation or if if there is a reincarnation trap and we can somehow and it's technological, it's something that we can break. That would be my first goal. Let's focus on that. And if there are humans that are helping these interdimensional beings or believe they're helping these interdimensional beings and messing with life on this planet,
01:12:11
Speaker
I don't know how we would actually stop that, but just to at least expose it that it's going on. And maybe some of them have amazing technology we didn't get into. If they had a breakthrough, I don't know how we would battle that unless we have our own technology or as a species.
01:12:30
Speaker
If there are ETs here or ETs out there, I think as a species, and I'm not the first one to say this, if we woke up enough where we asked for help, maybe we can get help. I don't think somebody's gonna just step in and help us unless we ask for help more than the non-interference Star Trek, non-intervention type of thing. I don't know how many people it would take for us to be open to ask for that to happen. And if ETs are here, probably most of them are indifferent.
01:13:00
Speaker
Probably some are negative, some are positive, but as far as helping, I think somebody mentioned to me privately that they're going to keep hands off unless a certain line is crossed. What that line is, I don't know. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. I guess.
01:13:15
Speaker
Red Panda Koala, thank you so much for the donation. I really appreciate it. That's a great point, actually. He's asking if he can get a chance on Joe's insider's thoughts on Havana syndrome and anything on Chuck Missler and the Collins Elite Scientology influence. If you want to tackle any of them before we finish, I'll avoid Scientology only because I only because I don't know enough to speak Scientology. I've had people say, you know what, what you're talking about,
01:13:40
Speaker
Now is Scientology and I avoid it because I'm like, okay, I don't really know what Scientology is. I never studied it. I did go and leave that up there for a second Vinnie. I'll get to that. I don't forget. I went to the Clearwater headquarters, which is a massive headquarters for Scientology. I wanted to get a tour, but they were too busy. Very, very weird. They were all dressed in the same outfit coming off a bus. It looked really robotic.
01:14:04
Speaker
Um, yeah, whether or not they have any part of the truth. I don't even know. Um, did they talk about people being dumped here, dumped here, like from other planets? The background, I'm not too sure when, but I've looked into it briefly in the past that as soon as it got into that alien thing, I kind of switched off. Okay. A while. Yeah. Here's one thing in life science, I've shared this article before they talk about the apocalypse of James. So it's an extra biblical.
01:14:32
Speaker
book that did not get into the Bible and it looks as Jesus as a teacher and it says that Jesus Jesus told James that basically and this is the writer saying this but basically we're living on a prison planet and it's like the matrix and when you die you're going to face these archons and to get to the actual real afterlife you need to have the passwords um unfortunately somebody else has co-opted the prison planet term Alex Jones which really sucks because then you mentioned prison planet and they connect you with him but
01:15:01
Speaker
This was the Nag Hammadi, the Gnostics talking about this. And I'm like, do I really think there are passwords you're supposed to know?
01:15:10
Speaker
you get to the archons and you have to give the password and if you get it wrong, you get sent back down or if you put in the wrong password, are you barred from trying again for three weeks and there are people on Reddit or like, does anybody have the passwords? If you type it in, not six passwords, archons, people are asking for the passwords. I don't think there are actual passwords. Maybe it's something you need to realize that you're a powerful spiritual being and these archons have no control if that's even a literal thing. Um, just remember who you are. So,
Technological Anomalies and Societal Imbalances
01:15:41
Speaker
Havana syndrome. I'll just say this, and whoever has that technology is able to avoid detection. So whoever has that technology has some really advanced capabilities. And for the United States government to say, I mean, they've thrown it out there like, oh, a lot of this is just in their head, or it's some sort of basic prosaic technology that they're mistaking.
01:16:05
Speaker
The government also is paying people now who are affected by it. So obviously it's real. And there's a hardcore group of people CNN just did an hour special on it. 60 minutes did a special. It's ruined their life. I mean, it's really affected them neurologically. It's a real thing. Um, is that here's my opinion. Here's my speculation. Is that some sort of human group saying, this is what we can do.
01:16:30
Speaker
And if you don't do what we say, we can keep doing this because you can't catch us. You're not going to catch us. Um, Gary Nolan said that, and it was in his vice interview, vice magazine. Uh, he said that he thinks that at least one injury, Thomas Winterton, who, and Gary didn't say Thomas Winterton, but Winterton later on, he's the superintendent at skinwalker ranch. He's later on said, yeah, that's my case. Nolan said he thought that involved a state actor.
01:16:57
Speaker
putting that, that would hurt him. And Brandon Fugel immediately said, I don't agree. Winerton said, I don't agree at the time. I was like, eh, but now I'm like, I think he's right. I don't think state actor though. I think non-state actor. I don't think it's a foreign country that has so much, although, I mean, with Havana, we know where it's taking place.
01:17:19
Speaker
And I'm not sure if we have, see, that's the thing. Maybe it can be detected if you know the attack is coming. This is coming out of the blue. Just like at Skinwalker, maybe there is some sort of human presence that's, here's another theory, human presence. If there is a technology, if there is a group out there that interacts with inter-dimensionals, where would you want to, and maybe that group has advanced technology. Where would you hang out to have most access to those inter-dimensionals you would hang out at a place like Skinwalker or Dulce in New Mexico?
01:17:48
Speaker
or Sedona or there are other places around the globe, Yakima, Washington. Maybe that's, and maybe they're, I don't know if they're able to stay stealth, but there are reports on Skinwalker that always made me think,
01:18:02
Speaker
You know, you hear there are footsteps in one of the trailers during the NIDG years, just like human footsteps. Was that some human technology that made them invisible or was it just poltergeist activity? I'm more open to the human technology angle, but I totally, I mean, skin marker stuff goes back hundreds of years. That's not human. So I think it's a mix that's going on there.
01:18:23
Speaker
Um, so yeah, Havana is a massive problem. That's not talked about in this community at all. And I think it should be Lou has said there's a connection between UAPs and Havana. He won't say what I think they got their technology from UFO. Tech and turn that into Havana. Um, and also slide nine, I'm starting to wonder is slide nine, an enemy of the United States that engages in psychotronic weapons and pre, you know, in, they can,
01:18:51
Speaker
cognitively interface with us and affect decision makers. Is that non-human or is that human? Are they talking about this human group that's involved with Havana? That's a recent theory that popped into my head. I don't know. I don't know if they're talking about humans, non-governmental group, or non-human intelligence, as far as Collins Elite.
01:19:14
Speaker
They don't think we should study this because they think it's demonic. I understand after what I just said, you know, that these beings come across as demonic. I don't think that's the case. And I, and, and I debate it with somebody online on Twitter and they're like, listen, if, if some of the worst things that happen on this planet are egged on by humans just to placate these inter-dimensionals and that's all evil. I'm like, you're right. From a human standpoint, that is 100% evil. We're talking about rape and incest.
01:19:44
Speaker
and pedophilia, all that worse stuff, if that's going on, putting out that negative food, that's horrible and evil. But from a non-human standpoint that survives off that stuff, they might not see it like that. And Lou says, you need to stop looking at this from a human viewpoint. It's part of the natural world. So if that's going on, okay. But if we have humans that are adding to that and doing the bidding in their minds of these non-humans, that's really,
01:20:14
Speaker
Really messed up and that's basically David Ike and other people It's not just Ike although Ike talks about it the most and I know it's controversial. I know people think it's crazy but if you put all the pieces together, it's like certain things start clicking you're like and Peter LaVenda and Tom DeLonge in the last book they put out to like certain things on this planet to not make sense something feels off I think a lot of people have thought that this does not seem right There are people starving on this planet. We have billionaires. Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I
01:20:44
Speaker
No, completely. I completely agree. Well, Joe, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. For anybody that may be watching or listening now or in the future, if you don't follow Joe, all of his links are in the description below. You follow him on Twitter. He's got his own blog site and other things as well. Please, please, please go and follow Joe.
01:21:06
Speaker
Yeah, you won't be disappointed. The work he puts in on Twitter is second to none. It's always highly appreciated. I know a lot of people go that way for their information. So, Joe, thank you so much. To everyone in the chat,
Closing Remarks and Upcoming Break
01:21:20
Speaker
thank you again, as always, for keeping it nice, cool, calm, and collected. I really appreciate it. Everybody listening on the Anomalous Podcast Network in the future, thank you for tuning in. I will be
01:21:31
Speaker
I think I'm having next week off. I'm going to have a little vacation. I might release something if it's edited by then, maybe not. If not, I'll see you the week after. But guys, thank you once again. And we'll see you soon. Take care. Goodbye. Thanks, Vinny. Thank you, mate.