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Sobriety and the Art of Queer Friendships (with special guest Will Pacheco)
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In this very special episode of Friendless, host James Avramenko delves into the complexities of friendship, sobriety, and mental health with his dear friend William Raphael Pacheco. Join them as they discuss the impact of family names, the challenges of quitting substances, and the journey toward self-acceptance.
They share laughs, deep reflections, and valuable life insights on maintaining friendships and navigating queer spaces while staying sober.
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Transcript
Introduction and Themes
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avramenko, and this week I have one of my closest friends on the show, the one, the only, William Raphael Pacheco. We discuss getting sober in queer spaces, what it actually means to go easy on yourself, and a few handy tips on how to set healthy friendship parameters. They're not boundaries.
00:00:33
Speaker
They're parameters. All of that and so much more. Will is one of my favorite people in the world and you are going to love this episode. So it's now time to lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level and enjoy my interview with Will Pacheco here on Friendless.
00:00:48
Speaker
All right, here we go.
First Meeting and Family Names
00:00:50
Speaker
This week on Friendless, I have one of my dearest friends in the world. um I met him through mutual friends, something like that. I don't know. Something like that. Some gay party somewhere. Definitely a gay party. Yeah. It was definitely that.
00:01:05
Speaker
I feel like it was one of those love at first sight moments. um The one, the only, William Raphael Pacheco. I do love how you use my full name. It's so good. Can you roll your R with it, too? Raphael. There you go. That's right. Raphael is i banger of a name thank you like it's a definitely family name yeah but my mom when i was changing my name she wanted to pick out one of the names again so she was like can i make it this because way everything's like all cohesive and i was like absolutely gorgeous um so yeah officially
00:01:45
Speaker
You know, family names are a funny thing. um i I find myself feeling very jealous of a lot of people's family names. um and and and i've And I'm hesitant to beg on my family names because, like, they're people I love.
00:01:59
Speaker
But, like, I don't really want to name a child of mine Herbert. Herbie? Herbie? Herbie? I mean, that's pretty cute. Yeah. but like Or like Heath, Heath, Heath, you know, which is technically a boy's name, but was my grandma's name. Totally. So it's it's it's it's tough, you know? Yeah. Like my my family has like, I mean, my half of my family is from PEI. So white as all hell. And then the other half is from Belize and other South Central America places. Yep.
00:02:29
Speaker
um So some of them can get very exciting. Yeah. um But yeah, my mom picked it. I love it. Thanks. William Raphael.
00:02:40
Speaker
ah but but I kind of love it. Right? Right? and this might be This might be a new thing. um um Before we launch in, I've got tons of stuff I want to chat to you about um based on prompts that you yourself created. I did. I'm so grateful for it.
00:02:55
Speaker
um But before we launch into those, I want to ask my go-to tentpole opening question. um Who the hell are you?
Identity and Age Discussion
00:03:02
Speaker
um I am... Who is William Raphael Fajago? That's the never-ending question, truly. I am a... Like a 28-year-old... Oh, sorry, I'm still 27 for a couple more weeks. 27-year-old queer trans dude.
00:03:20
Speaker
ah queer trans dude And honestly, that kind of sums me up in a nutshell. um ah People like to say I'm very soft. um But I do have a very deranged sense of humor, which you know. Yes. I've sent you some very questionable reels. Very. Like, the the to the level of, like...
00:03:44
Speaker
Is it okay to be Will's friend? you know but Listen, I... Hey, I just like really dumb stuff. Yeah. yeah and very bad jokes. yes um Nothing cancelable.
00:03:56
Speaker
Nothing cancelable. No pro-Nazi. No. God, no. Yeah, no, no, no. But definitely, like... Those like memes where people end up covering their face. up Yeah. where you're just like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. um That is definitely me in a nutshell. yeah So adorable, yeah soft, soft little baby um with a very deranged sense of humor. Yeah. um Yeah. That's well. I love it. You're also, you're also, you know, not, not to pull the old man card as I so often do around you, yeah you know, but I am very old. But no, it just made me laugh because, you know, you had to sneak in your age and and you're still of the age where you want to say. i do. But, you know, I'm at the age where i'm like, I think I'm. i
00:04:38
Speaker
Am I? Yeah, I'm 38 now. Totally. I think. I think. I'm pretty sure. you have to, like, do math just to figure out your age. That's just it. And it's it's like 87 is such a pain in the ass year because, like.
00:04:51
Speaker
You're 10 years older than I am. I just realized that. my God. I know. Disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. Where were you on 9-11? ah In my mom's arms? In a cradle? Actually, would been three. jesus Four. Jesus. No, three. So we can never date.
00:05:08
Speaker
No, we can't. That's my go-to deal breaker now is is um do you have cognitive memories of 9-11? I remember learning about it in school. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, we can never be in love. yeah It just can't happen. And I'm okay with that. i yeah Yeah. It's fine. cry about it later. fine.
00:05:30
Speaker
that's the most gentle shootout i've ever received i really appreciate it yeah yeah like it's fine it's whatever i'll just cry fine but it is troubling and we're we're at you know we're we're at the age now okay but i mean i guess you have just told me you won't understand this but but but in the faraway lands of of the mid-2000s yes you know uh uh it was you know 9-11 changed everything.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah. you know That's what I've heard. And it's really it's just it's really tough to feel like there's any kind of future with somebody. Yeah, that's very rare. Who doesn't know what it was like before then? Yeah. um Because like I don't say that I grew up in the ninety s because I didn't. I first years were my first three years were like I'm born in December, so my first like two years, I guess, all that was just all 2000s. Exactly. I grew up in the 2000s. I graduated 2015. Again, just to make you feel old. Yeah. um yeah i was i've already I'd already graduated university. Yeah, exactly. um and God, I was engaged.
00:06:34
Speaker
Damn. Yeah. let' See, and i I forget. Am I your youngest friend? I actually, i hold that stake very high. Yeah. And that makes me very happy. Yeah.
00:06:44
Speaker
And I will go no lower. I think that's i think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. um I feel like 27. That 10-year age gap is pretty good. Yeah. um yeah But yeah, I do hold that stake very, very high. Big time. I don't know why, but I do. yeah I basically, I guess i've gotten to the I've gotten to the age where I can't be friends with anybody younger than um um the, like, Musicians 27 Club, you know? Totally. like you have to you have to be the age where you would... um ah Kill yourself with drugs. yeah you know If you can survive a drug bender, we can't be friends. Yeah, yeah that's actually so true. like Also being sober now, I'm like, yeah, you will not see me doing that at all. yeah ah Never in my life. um Yeah.
00:07:29
Speaker
But we were friends pre that. Yes. So when i was like 25. yeah but i was a younger man too oh that's true the halcyon days of 35 oh yeah no you're very right you're very right was still nimble and spry you saw some pep in your step um which both of us are like old men now oh yeah i love being at home and just being cozy oh i have aged i have aged decades in the last three years yeah me too honestly like 28 going on 208 yeah So speaking of the sobriety thing, this is something that am really curious to talk to you about.
Perception of Time and Sobriety
00:08:05
Speaker
There's a few different directions I'm sure we can end up going in it, but in your initial experience of getting sober, have you found...
00:08:16
Speaker
How do I put it? Like, I have found that I have, like, i feel like I've double aged since I got sober. Like, every year that passes, I feel like at least two have passed. Yeah. You know? Time moves a lot faster. Yeah.
00:08:31
Speaker
Which you would think would be the opposite yeah because you're sober and so you're experiencing everything. But it's like now it's like the I don't know. and and And this is not me trying to be like I miss drugs because I don't. It's it's more that it's like I just feel slower. yeah And yet everything's going faster.
00:08:48
Speaker
I feel like i like my days feel longer. But it is it it's it's weird. Like I've I've been sober for I think just under the same amount of time as you like yeah a couple of months. yeah um but it just like everything just feels like it's yeah toned down. And I guess it's exactly what it is, but like life doesn't feel as chaotic, maybe. But I do find that, yeah yeah. I guess maybe you raised a good point there about the idea of like maybe because it's
00:09:21
Speaker
there's so much more routine there's so much more stability yeah there isn't those novel spikes of like oh I got fucked up and this weird thing happened because I put myself in this bizarre place out of nowhere there's no good stories anymore yeah yeah and so in turn so like because of like our ADHD it's sort of like yeah we don't register and and then it's like oh shit a month just went by and I did I don't think I did anything yeah i I think I also keep myself so busy with work stuff specifically and like having two partners and just it keeps me so busy and in a routine because I usually see my partners on like certain days a week um and like work is busy. It's like it's just easy to for let it for it to like fly by. But like I'm like I didn't see anyone this month yeah except my partners. Yeah. My clients. That's all.
00:10:11
Speaker
there's ah There's an old man saying i heard once of of of long days, short years. Yeah. And I think that we're finally at that stage. yeah it's It's come up a few times in previous interviews about this idea of like, you know, I'm sure there's some word for it, but it's like when you're seven, you've only had seven summers. So each one is special.
00:10:32
Speaker
and And the more summers you have... the bigger the pool of experience you have, so the less special they each become. That's so sad. Yeah. That's really depressing to think about, but it's also true. Yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
But then the opposite side is that, like, something that I've found I really celebrate and really cherish about aging is that, like, for me... i don't you know i okay I forget shit all the time. i forget But I forget dumb shit. I forget shit that like the moment I learn it, I'm like, oh, I don't need you know like names.
00:11:03
Speaker
I don't need to know those. Yeah, in the in two seconds. Yeah, yeah yeah like i don't I don't need that. But like important shit, like like stuff stuff that happens, you know things that I know I need to... you know like I don't forget that shit. And so 10, 15 years could have gone by And if I, you know, if if I haven't seen somebody in 15 years, but the last time I saw them was like some thing and I run into them, like I remember it like, you know? And yeah so so for me, aging... has just meant like having a bigger pool of memories and having a bigger pool of things to look back on and enjoy and appreciate. That is actually really beautiful. yeah um
00:11:41
Speaker
i'm I'm excited to get older. Honestly, like 20s sucked. Yeah. 20s suck. Oh God. And I cannot wait to be 30 because I've heard it's great. yeah it's the It's the funny thing. I mean, you know,
00:11:52
Speaker
It's got to be something to do with our like youth fetish culture or something. you know that like Everybody's so terrified of turning 30. Right. But for me, goddamn. Look, okay, my 30s have, technically speaking, if you were to look at them objectively, have been robo ro rough. Yeah. ah but But at the same time, too, somehow...
00:12:15
Speaker
they're they've still been better than my 20s. Yeah. You know? Which is crazy. Yeah. um But, you know, nothing can get worse than some of the stuff that has happened in my 20s, truly. Like, mental illness-wise, friend-wise, pete like, just person-wise. Like,
00:12:33
Speaker
I was so bad in my early twenty s as a human being. Sure. And now I'm like. But you were sweating. Literally. And at that point, like, there's also, was talking to my girlfriend the other day and she was like, I wish I, like, can't believe I'm 28 and like, I don't have everything figured out and this is crazy. And was like,
00:12:51
Speaker
Dude. It's fine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 28 is the new 18. Mm-hmm. You know, like... And I think it's psychotic that we, for so many generations, made people... You know, okay, like, obviously I get it because life expectancy was lower. Yeah. Like, you weren't living past 60. Yeah. Anyway, so, like, you had to grow up. But at the same time, too, like...
00:13:08
Speaker
your brain is still like fully solidifying yeah up until like 20s. Yeah, exactly. right So it's like your brain is still mush. And the fact that for centuries we had babies running everything. yeah Literally. like No wonder everything was awful. and we had They have their frontal lobe developed. Exactly. o They had no idea what was going on. Exactly. yeah So it's like I i celebrate. you know I think aging is a privilege. yeah and And I think i think um this fear of of getting older, is it's it's a marketing ploy. yeah It's just a way for us to keep us feeling bad about ourselves and and make sure we buy more to comfort that and pretend we're still young when we're not. and yeah I think that's exactly what it is. Yeah. and it
00:13:54
Speaker
I just... and I don't know, wish that everyone could just like take a second and breathe a little bit and not feel like everything's rushed. yeah Because, like you know, like not every day is promised. yeah But...
00:14:08
Speaker
Just slow down. Yeah. I hate that, like, carpe diem type attitude. Yeah. You know? because Because the thing is that it's, like, it's it's a balance. Yeah. Right? It's that thing of, like, i you know, I think that the the intrinsic philosophy
Balancing Stress and Self-Kindness
00:14:20
Speaker
behind something like Memento Mori, right? Right. This sort of stoic, remember, you're going to die. You only have so many days. Right.
00:14:25
Speaker
I think that is important. And I also don't think that means, you know, because that then gets bastardized into the like rising grind, you know? Yeah, exactly. That gets bastardized into the like, so you've got to hustle every fucking day. And it's like, no, some days I'm going to go sleep. Exactly. all i want There was one weekend i remember I grew up in a very like seize the day kind of household. And it was like, okay, what did you accomplish today? And sometimes it would be like, actually, nothing. I've i've done nothing today. um and Not because I was like felt too pressured or anything. i was I didn't want to. And then I was like, okay, well, now you have to do something. yeah um Which, you know, like both thank you to my parents for giving me that kind of motivation. And also...
00:15:08
Speaker
Fuck you. Yeah. Love you guys. Yeah. Like you suck. Yeah. um ah And now it's like I was talking to my mom I think like a couple months ago and she was like what did you do this weekend? Like did you get anything ah everything done that you wanted because I had this huge list of stuff that i needed to get done.
00:15:23
Speaker
And I was like actually i spent the entire weekend doing playing the Zelda. Fuck yes. And I didn't like i didn't change my clothes. yeah i don't even think I brushed my teeth. yeah It was like kind of gross, but it was great. It was so good. And she was like, did that make you happy? And I was like, it made me so happy. That's the key. And like just taking that time to slow down and just...
00:15:49
Speaker
you know, do something that I wanted to do that I haven't done since I was a kid. Spend an entire weekend playing video games and like staying in my pajamas all weekend. yeah I think this was mid-summer too. yeah Like I didn't want to do anything. It felt so good. It's the best.
00:16:02
Speaker
It's something that I've been learning. You know, you know I've been on medical leave now. You know, as in the time at the time of recording this, I've been on a little over a month and and and it's been really weird because like there's there's been this huge emotional drop because all the stress has gone away.
00:16:18
Speaker
And, and initially I thought that was really bad because I was like, i was being held up by my stress basically. Um, but then I've let myself just drop up and, and, um, been really leaning into like, you know, some, some weeks I shower every other day, and yeah you know, and, and that was rough at first.
00:16:39
Speaker
I've, I've learned to embrace it for a bit. I also am now at the stage where I'm like, some stress is good. Like I need some stress to, yeah to get myself back up. Exactly. Like level out your stress thrust but a little threshold. Yes. um Like if you don't keep it at a certain level, it will drop. And then every time you get a little stress, it's just going to get worse. yeah Learned about this in school. It was great. um You have to kind of like keep yourself, not stress at all times, but like,
00:17:06
Speaker
Give yourself the chance to be stressed just so you remember how it feels, honestly. That's And also, it's like it's like stress is good. It's not a bad – like in the sense that like needing – you know, we need to do stuff. Yeah. right And and this this is what leads me back to this thing of like, you know, it's good to take a day or two to do it. Exactly. It's not helpful to do that for a week straight. but But like a couple days – and this is the thing of like, you know, you don't have to achieve something every day.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
is like what am i going to achieve this Right. Or maybe this month. Yeah. You know, like, like, and some of them are still stuff I could do in an afternoon. But, but I, but it's like, if I do it, then it's like, yeah, now I don't have to fucking panic myself. Exactly. Right. And, and I think.
00:17:52
Speaker
I don't know. I don't have a point. But like, but like, it's just the there's a there's a middle ground here that I think they think is much more effective and much more helpful for. It just makes life so much easier when you're easy on yourself. That there it is. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I don't I don't want to be stressed all the time. Yeah. like stress is going to pop up. Like it's actually a part of like my.
00:18:11
Speaker
therapy program to like lessen my stress. But I knew that if I took out everything in my life that was stressful, which is also not possible. like like there's always going be- Being alive is stressful. It's stressful. Like I didn't ask to be here, but I'm here and here we are. yeah yeah um But it was like, okay, you need to like take out all the stress in your life.
00:18:31
Speaker
But I knew that that wasn't possible. um But what I kind of came to the conclusion was was just, I need to be so easy on myself. Something doesn't get done right away. I have crippling OCD. Same. and duck sorry Sorry, not crippling, but but it's but it's in my wheelhouse. Yeah, my wheel it's in the wheelhouse. I love that for us. yeah um And it's like, it's things, it's a lot of things, yeah but a lot of the times it shows up is,
00:18:57
Speaker
if I don't have a perfectly clean home, I cannot leave the house. yeah So what I've been working on is I will CMS and I know that I have to like, i just have to run in the store to grab bagels. yeah Um, and a lot of the years it was like, I can't leave until everything is spotless yeah or else something bad's to happen when I come outside. And then it's like this weird trickle down effect yeah of me having to clean my entire apartment or being in like Like complete paralysis because I'm like, I don't want to do that. I'm like trying to break from it.
00:19:29
Speaker
And then now what I've been working on is just seeing the mess, acknowledging it. i mean, like that will get dealt with. I'll ask my partner to my nesting partner.
00:19:42
Speaker
I'll, you know, I'll do it next week. I'll do it tomorrow. i don't care anymore. Yep. And it's not that I don't care. It's just that I, if I'm going to kill you, it's not going to kill me. yeah And I'm tired of stressing about stuff like that. So that's what I've been, that's what I've been working on too, has been the idea of like stress about the things that deserve stress. um But more than more so below that has been what you were bringing up before about like, go easy on yourself. you know And that doesn't mean what, what, What's so interesting for me and what ah the way I try to internalize it is the idea of like going on easy on yourself doesn't mean let yourself off the hook. Yeah, absolutely. Right? It doesn't mean don't do anything and no you know no goals and no work and da-da-da. No. like You still have to push yourself because if you want something, you do still have to work for it.
00:20:32
Speaker
But... If you don't get this done in this time or you don't you know yeah achieve it to the level you want or whatever, that doesn't mean you're a failure. That doesn't mean, you know, because my brain immediately goes to, well, fuck me forever and I'm a piece of garbage. Absolutely. You know, and instead it's about being like, oh OK, so that's where you got. Great. Yeah. You know, it's like it's it is what it is, you know, like um it's not going to kill me. yeah um But yeah, I think that's a very good point. Yeah. Goals and just like.
00:20:57
Speaker
bigger things in life, yeah you do have to, like, you have to push yourself. and Exactly. Sometimes ends you do have to be hard on yourself. Yeah. When it comes to, like, the clothes haven't been folded. this this is it. And I'm having a mental breakdown over it. Yes.
00:21:09
Speaker
Then I can be easy on myself. Exactly. And like, it'll get done. Like, the dishes haven't been done, and I know that, and I can, like, see them in the back of my head. yeah And I'm like, okay, I have to go home and put those away. And like if I don't do that, like but I kind of want to just go home and play Zelda. Or like yeah dode I want to lay in bed and read my book. you know like Is it going to kill me if that doesn't get done? No. Exactly. so what's the next step? um And I think...
00:21:32
Speaker
I don't really have a point to that end either, but love yeah, be easy on yourself, kids. That's what it comes down to, you know, and I, and I, and I hear it in myself so often. I hear it in my friends so often. I hear it in my partner so often where when I, when, when I sit with what, you know, when somebody brings a problem to me, you know, what I end up more often than not hearing is like just this like shame, you know, and, and, and you know,
00:22:02
Speaker
it it really upsets me if I'm being honest. It really upsets me because it's like i hear the problem and i I don't want to jump to like, I do i do my best not to jump to problem solve. like yeah I do my best to just hear it about it. I'm in the same way. But I do also, when I hear what they're saying, what I end up hearing is like, you're just being really mean to yourself for no reason. Like, you know like take it take a breath. Yeah. like I'm also a problem solver. Yeah. And it's been like, actually my nesting partner has been very good at being like, Stop. Stop yeah doing that, which I love them endlessly for. yeah Because there's things that you can't solve. and But when I hear my partners being very, or my friends, anyone being very hard on themselves, even my parents, I'm like, dude, you need to take a breath. Just like... that's that's where That's the direction I often take these kinds of conversations is, you know, validate what they're saying. Exactly. But what I'll sort of, you know, chime in about in a sort of quote unquote problem-solving way is being like...
00:23:02
Speaker
you know, just like be nice to you first, you know, because this is not some character flaw. This is not some failing of yours. It's just like, you're having a hard time. Yeah. I was just talking to my mom about this the other day. Like she was being really mean, but you know,
00:23:16
Speaker
And it's what I often hear pop up in my own speech and in other people's speeches, these very casual self depreciating, you know, Oh, I'm so stupid. Oh, I fucked that up. Oh, what an idiot. You know, I'm a fucker. Yeah. Yeah. I hear that a lot from my partners. And I also hear that from myself a lot. And I've been very consciously trying to not do that. Or if I'm like, i messed that up. yeah I'm like,
00:23:38
Speaker
Just don't say it. That's just, yeah. like i I see that it's messed up. yeah um But like not everyone needs to hear it. It's not even like, it's not that they don't want to. It's just that like, It doesn't need to be put into the universe because it's not a big deal. And like learning that it's not a big deal is really hard. yeah Yeah. But being able to recognize that.
00:23:57
Speaker
Sorry. you i was No, no, no. It's the idea of like it can be a big deal. Yeah. And that also doesn't mean you're fucked up. That's very true. You know, like it's like, yeah, that sucks. You know, like this thing is hard. This thing is a problem. You're allowed to be upset. You're allowed to be mad. You're allowed to be sad. Whatever it is. Exactly. And that doesn't reflect poorly on you. Exactly. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. It's just the situation that you're in currently is shitty. Exactly. Exactly. But you're not bad. Unless you're a bad person, then. Well, you know. And even then, you know, i mean ah look I mean, obviously there's context and nuance involved around it, but it's like it's like on a on a
00:24:35
Speaker
on a macro, like, philosophical level, yeah I don't believe that there are good or bad people. i think Really? I really don't. I think that there are people who are misguided. I think there are people who make ineffective choices. I think there are people who make decisions that cause harm. Right. But I do not believe that there are intrinsically good or bad people. Totally. I think there are people who learn...
00:24:58
Speaker
malicious and harmful behaviors. Right. see where you're coming from now. First I was like, oh. But now I see what you Like harm is done. There are people who cause harm. Yeah. But I don't i don't think that there is an inherent evil. Evil. No. No, it's not born. Yeah. Definitely. It's the it's taught and the taught and yeah I can't remember what the saying Nature versus nurture? Nature versus nurture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. And there's predispositions. Yeah. You know, there's conditions that are easier to tie in. Like when the kid is playing with a bunny and it doesn't go so well. Exactly. That kind of stuff. Like, there's stuff. But like, that's also genetic too. Like, it's all chemicals in the brain. That's just, yeah. It's weird stuff. That's why it's not one or the other. It's like, there's no such thing as black and white. Exactly. It's a middle ground of the two. There's predispositions, then there's conditioning, then there's experience, and you know.
00:25:46
Speaker
Oh, mental health. Oh, it's very complicated and fascinating. sort of talk about sobriety when But this i mean that's i mean is what I love about you so much, William Raphael, is that you is that you you can just ride with me.
Mental Health and Sobriety Journey
00:25:58
Speaker
do. And i I think a lot of our conversations end up being like, These weird tangents of yeah fuckery yeah um that like neither of us can follow for the most part. And I'll probably listen back to this and be like, I don't remember what I said. yeah i have no idea idea what I said. And that's okay. yeah um If anything, yeah I'm just telling people to be easy on themselves. yes ah Because I said that like 80 times, but that's fine. It's true. i won' really want to hone that in. But that also, that circles back to another element of sobriety that I'd be really really interested in your sort of your your experience with. In that, like I know for me, the first, I would say, like six six months to a year, I would say that first that first year,
00:26:41
Speaker
it gradually to be diminished. But at the start, it there was so much shame involved. yeah And there was so much self-loathing involved. and And as my nervous system was coming back online, yeah after being numbed and muted and mutated for so many years with drugs and alcohol, as that came back online, my first impulse was to hate myself even more. Totally. Right? And and upon you know upon with with therapy and upon self-reflection,
00:27:07
Speaker
I was realizing i was using and I was drinking because of my internalized self-loathing. Right. But then when you remove those, you know, because it's like there's that AA adage of like ah alcohol isn't the problem, it's the solution, you know? and And I realized I was using to to hide from those problems. But then when you move that, now you're just with your problems, right? Yeah. And so my first impulse was to hate myself even more. Totally, totally, totally. And and
00:27:39
Speaker
as I learned to let that piece go and as I learned to like give myself that love first, you know, um that's when it started diminishing. and, and and I'm, uh, you know, I'm not prompting you to be like, do you, do do you hate yourself too? But I'm just, what I mean is that it's like, I guess a piece of it that I'm curious about is like, you know, an experience I had was like,
00:28:03
Speaker
I didn't really feel any sort of benefit to it until probably post six months at the earliest. Yeah. um And I'm curious, like, yeah, what was your sort of like journey like in that first It was kind of phase weird. So like when I didn't really have a choice to get over. So when I got diagnosed, so I have schizotypal personality disorder and also borderline personality disorder.
00:28:26
Speaker
When I got diagnosed with both of those, I was like coming off of like a mini psychosis. yeah um So it wasn't fully there, but it wasn't fully not there, which is kind of like the middle ground for schizotypal. You can Google it if you want. um It is quite interesting. have. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. um Not to diminish your I had no idea that it existed. like The reason why I got assessed is because my GP thought I had schizophrenia.
00:28:53
Speaker
um And it wasn't quite that. But the thing was that schizotypal could be a precursor to schizophrenia. So when I was talking to my psychiatrist, he was like, you need to stop drinking and you need to stop smoking weed specifically because that's what I was using the most. And it would be like...
00:29:11
Speaker
like smoking bowls in my apartment, yeah i would get home, I would have maybe six. Yeah. Which was like, I was constantly in this very high state and I would also like buy a case of beer and I would And you're disassociated and you're like, yeah. Completely. remember like watching a TV show. think I was watching The Last Airbender with ah with my partner, my nesting partner. And we rewatched it, I want to say maybe six months ago. Yeah.
00:29:38
Speaker
And I didn't remember a single thing. Yeah. Because i remember I remember seeing it, but I couldn't see it. Yes. Like, I wasn't i wasn't processing anything. yep And, like, I was, i'm like, not unhappy, but I was also dealing with a lot of mental issues that I didn't know were happening. Yes. So I was having the hallucinations, but a lot of them were internal. Mm-hmm. Internal audio hallucinations, which are also very fascinating. Mm-hmm.
00:30:02
Speaker
I get the... My BBD gives me... I get audio stuff. Yes. And I get shadow people. Which is so annoying. In an episode. Which also people don't realize that is a part of BBD. Yes. That's why I think it does separate itself from... What is... Complex PTSD. Yes. CPTSD. Yeah.
00:30:21
Speaker
That's a tangent. But... yes So my... soul All the... all The there's a puppy pile of conditions are my so interesting. weird like fascination with... um mental disorders yeah is been a lifelong thing yeah like i've always like i took psychology and stuff so it's just been an ongoing process so i knew kind of what was happening when i started to lose myself and i started to smoke less weed um this was pre getting diagnosed so i started to smoke less weed i was drinking a lot less but i was still having all these things so was like okay um that could be an issue and earlier that year i'd also been you know doing acid. I think at the beginning of the year, my nesting partner and i celebrated by candy flipping, which was acid. And i want to say it was MDMA. Yeah, that's usually hippie flip. It's a great night. but It was yeah very fun, but I also felt nothing. Which very interesting, because I was this is my normal. i don't know what's happening.
00:31:14
Speaker
ah It's like me and Coke. I was yeah like, I'm just going to go to bed now. Yeah, it was like, this is very normal for me. The calm down was Awful because I could feel everything starting to kind of come out of my system. Again, another side tangent. But so I was off all of these things.
00:31:28
Speaker
They're still in my system, but like stuff was still happening. So like i was still getting hallucinations, the voices ever. I felt so away from my body. i felt like my body was 10 feet behind. at all times and i could not focus i was going through my day it was just like very day-to-day um i knew what i had to do i would go to work there i called out a lot um and luckily my boss is very very understanding um but i'll go to work do my day and not remember anything
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah. So when I finally got assessed back to that, my psychiatrist was like, you need to stop smoking weed and drinking because again, schizotypal is a pre can be a precursor to schizophrenia.
00:32:11
Speaker
And that can be something that comes down the line. Right. And my i do have a family history of like uncles and stuff that have um ah bipolar disorder. Oh, yeah. So it's not like it's far. Sure. It's not like it's a far off thing of persistent mental illness. Well, and it's that thing, you know, like like all these conditions, the Venn diagrams of them are like they there's just like slivers. Really? Exactly. And so when I got that diagnosis, I was like, oh, fuck. um I don't want to stop smoking weed. Yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
But I also was like, I also don't want to stop drinking because I love drinking. and That's how I go out. That's how I meet people. That's queer spaces. That's, that is everything to me. What am I going to do? Which is maybe more of a them problem than a you problem. Absolutely. We could probably dig into that. Absolutely. but yeah But I was like, I have no idea what to do. don't like, this is my nightly routine now.
00:33:02
Speaker
And I was like, I was upset that I had to quit. Um, like I knew that it was something that I had to do in the back of my mind, but at the front of my mind, I was like, I don't need to do that. I'm fine.
00:33:15
Speaker
And then as I was researching more and more into this, it's, there's not much on it. Yeah. Um, ah into this personality disorder. Um, was like, Oh, I really can't, I really can't do this. Um, and then there was something that just clicked and I was still really upset about it. Yeah. I was like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. I'm 26 years old. Yeah. I can't drink. I can't smoke weed. All of my friends are doing these things. ah One of my partners is Irish. I remember the last last time I had like a full drinking binge was on St. Patrick's Day that year. That was right after I got my diagnosis. and I was like, this is the last time. yeah um so I just had ah at a full day out. and I think we were drinking from 8 a.m. m because it was like a rugby game on until 9 p.m. Then I went home and slept. yeah um
00:34:01
Speaker
But... it probably took me about, i was i would say about six months, even to a year yeah of me finally being like, I don't need a drink to have fun. Yeah. um And like going out to wrestling with you and like every time I would go up to the bar and be like, I'm going to get a drink. I'll just get one. It's fine.
00:34:17
Speaker
I just don't. I get up there and I'm like, actually, I'm just going to have a bubbly or I'm just going to have a soda yeah um because that's what i really want. I don't want to not have the experience of being sober, which is also really weird because I i have like photos of stuff being but like having fun while drinking. And I'm like, that would have been really fun. Yeah.
00:34:40
Speaker
Now I do allow myself to have a drink very occasionally. um and it's just because I like the taste. I was on my anniversary with one of my partners um and I had a craft beer. And then the other partner, it was, I had a wine or something like that. yeah And like just little things to just be like, I'm celebrating and that's fine. But it's no longer drinking a case of beer every two days. yes Smoking six bowls. I smoked weed twice since. And like that little break of sobriety where i was like, I just want to try it again. Yeah. Let's see what happens. Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
um and i have been having these thoughts where i'm like i kind want to smoke weed again yeah but i know what's gonna happen yes yeah and my brain goes so wiki wonky the next two weeks i'm barely a human it's not worth it i'm like i'm busy i got stuff to do literally um i don't want to have all these feelings and have all these hallucinations or these bad thoughts um And it's just not worth it. So I would say even the last six months now has been where I'm finally like, yeah, it's fine. don't want to drink. I'm good. I'm good. So that's a year and a half. Yeah.
00:35:43
Speaker
Which is a long time. It's amazing. It's amazing that you got there. It's like, i'm I'm proud of myself that I still don't smoke weed. um I still smoke nicotine, but, you know, I still vape. Yeah, literally vip vaping as we record this. Yeah, we are. And we we were talking about this earlier as well. um But it's it's better.
00:36:03
Speaker
Like everything is so much better. I'm so more cognitively aware. And that is, I didn't realize how important that was to me because I wasn't experiencing life. I was just a body. I was just a body. ye And now I'm actually experiencing things, feeling enjoyment and love. I don't feel enjoyment and love and things that I think are very tangible. Well, they're not tangible. um Like, it's not...
00:36:29
Speaker
I don't think I feel the same way that I would say like a neurotypical person does. Sure. Yeah. Which i think you would also exactly agree with. It's much more heightened. It is. yeah or But mine's mine's actually the opposite. It's very dulled. um So it's like, I'm like, yeah, I love you. I know that. I know that. And i like sometimes I think it's the thinking part of my brain that it, but it is the feeling part. I just don't feel things correctly. I i correctly and i know exactly what you mean. I was just having this conversation the other day about how like I feel these things. I feel them really deeply. yeah I don't know how to express them beyond just like yeah thinking them and feeling them, though. like I really struggle to express love.
00:37:08
Speaker
Even though it is like deep and sincere and fair, but there's like a cutoff of like, I don't know what to do. I don't think it's a trauma thing. I just that's a part of my personality. Sure. Truly. And I like, it could be like a, like a personality disorder thing or it could just, where I'm like, I don't like, I know that I love my family, but I'm also okay if I don't see them all the time. Sure. You know, like, like I really adore them and I love my sister. She lives in a different city.
00:37:33
Speaker
I don't think about her that often. Yeah. Unfortunately, but I'm like, I do love her. Yeah. But like, I'm not calling her all the time. To me, to me, that's like an overlap of the ADHD part where it's like, there's no object permanence. So it's like, for me, you know, with my family, it's like, my dad will call and I'll be like, oh yeah, I have a dad.
00:37:51
Speaker
you know and it's like and then i'll talk to him and i'll be like that was lovely and then just say and then i'll go back to my life and i'll just be like dumb to them yeah and this you know like exist yeah like i'm just here if i see you hi yeah um but it's just i don't i like very everything is very dull um which knowing that now when i was drinking and like smoking weed specifically i could feel so much more Yeah. And I like I'm on a lot of medication now. So that also has something to do with it. But but I could like feel so much more. I could like I can't cry because I'm on testosterone. That's just a thing. Sure. And it burns when I cry. So when I do it just sucks. Men don't cry. Men don't cry. That's actually the man handbook that I got when I first started transitioning. The man book? The man book. Did you get one? I did, actually. Yeah. They were like, should we?
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah. and I guess. You know? Yeah. Yeah. and yeah The first page was Mendo Cry. So don't. um No. It was, it just, it burned so much. Really? And I think my my tear ducts are just like shut. I was like, sometimes I try to cry. yeah And then it just doesn't come. And I'm like, well, that was pointless.
00:39:01
Speaker
um But I don't know where I was going with that. I completely lost track. But, um oh I was feeling... yeah ah and now that I feel everything more dull-y, I'm like, oh, okay, that actually makes a lot more sense for me because I was feeling way too much and it felt felt too much. yeah But it's also more like, because you're more cognitive, it's more controlled. It's more regulated. It is a lot more regulated. yeah And like BPD brain, whereas like it's like I'm like in an up state all the time, which is just like,
00:39:36
Speaker
it feel It feels like in a constant state of anxiety.
Emotional Experience and Challenges in Queer Spaces
00:39:39
Speaker
And like, ah what is it? It's like your lizard brain is always open. You know which point? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, it's like the little part and the little flap at the back of your head yeah um that it's just always open and it's like the danger, basically. And like that part was always open also because I was drinking and smoking weed and doing drugs.
00:39:57
Speaker
um And that part was always open so I could just like, I felt, i felt like i felt a lot more, which i might also not be true. It's so interesting, too, because it's like my experience with that feels like it's like it's similar, but but flipped in that, like, I found that because in my natural state with my nervous system now, it's like I feel so much. My my emotions are so elevated and.
00:40:22
Speaker
But but with my with my therapy work, with my DBT work, with and with my medication and all these things, it keeps the the sort of danger spikes, whether it's spike high, spike low. Right. It keeps them level. and And I think that I was drinking and using...
00:40:39
Speaker
to dull those because because for me it's like i think in my sobriety i struggle to express these things because they even even with the regulation they still it's easy to flood my system right in one direction or the other and so it's easy to shut down but when i was drinking it dulled everything it brought everything down to a level where i could comfortably express stuff. Totally. you know So it was way easier to be like, I fucking have the AMA on, you know? Yeah. um it Because it would bring everything down and my nervous system would be shut down so I could express. Right. even with the dull
00:41:14
Speaker
it's it's only it it's dulling already something really big. yeah So dulling it just brings it down to normal size, right? Mine was yeah definitely the opposite where i was like everything was heightened and I was like I can finally feel something. Which was like I just like it like numb to life. i remember my parents saying that I was a silent child. Like I never, I rarely cried. I rarely did much. I was very quiet.
00:41:36
Speaker
And I think, again, that's just who I am as a person. And it all makes sense. It made sense after got the diagnosis. I think I got the manhand book you were supposed to get. I think so. Yeah, I think so. It was switched. That's why came out with a girl. was like, oh, this boy. want to go watch Practical Magic again.
00:41:55
Speaker
I just want to play with Hot Wheel, okay? Actually, for my, like I think 19th birthday... Maybe my 20th? I can't remember. ah The year after I came out um for my birthday, my mom got me a Hot Wheels track. Like the one, because she was like, you never got one, so wanted one. Like the one that shoots them through in the loop.
00:42:12
Speaker
yeah fuck It was so good. And I felt, I was like, I feel seen. Thank you. um yeah But yeah. yeah no hello I love it. Sprite is weird. It's weird as fuck. I mean, I'm happy with it. I love it. yeah and And it's it's it's funny. i I often, I worry that I come across as condescending about it or like kind of like smug, but I'm i'm really not trying to be. but But I always, whenever, you know, whenever a friend is like, I'm going to do like Sober October or something. yeah I'm always like,
00:42:42
Speaker
Don't bother. Don't bother. You know, like, because it's like, it's like, if you, and and those this is why I'm like, I think that's a bad take. I think I shouldn't be doing that. um Because, but from my reasoning behind it is that it's like, if you genuinely think you have a problem with your drinking,
00:42:57
Speaker
A month off isn't like that's going to be the worst. So you're going to want to just drink again. Yeah. So. So if you really think you have a problem, you have to stop for a while. Like you have to really stop. It's very intentional. You know, like, you know, and and because I didn't even feel a genuine benefit till at least six months. Yeah. You know.
00:43:17
Speaker
So it's like if you really think you have a problem, you have to give yourself that amount of time. Yeah, and that's also for people that are like heavy drinkers. yeah. You know, like if you have a drink occasionally you just want to do like a no alcohol for a month. Sure, yeah. Totally, go for it. But in that case, it's like people who announce they're leaving social media. I'm like, why are you telling anyone that? Yeah, do it. Just do it, fuck off.
00:43:44
Speaker
You brought it up really in in passing before, but I think it's a really interesting thing to circle into and kind of dig into a little bit is this idea of the the ah in sort of importance and the way that it's like very tied into like queer culture. Yeah.
00:44:00
Speaker
And almost like queer identity yeah is like just like casually doing some special K and then going to the whatever. Yeah, or just drinking all night. Drinking. drink I mean, obviously drinking is the the key one, but then there's so many casual drug users. Very much so, yeah. And when I got sober, the thought of like going to the birdhouse or going to Pride or something like that was terrible. terrifying at first. Very, yeah. I actually, so I still can't go the birdhouse. And it's just because the first time I went when I was sober, you actually drove me home. That's right. I was having an awful time yeah because I'm seeing all these people and it was very fresh. Like, it was a couple months. Yeah, you were still the... was still in the, I want to drink too. And like very stompy feet. I like, I felt like a toddler because I was like, I want to do that too. Yeah. um But it was because I, I really couldn't. Yeah. um And we, we got some for such different reasons that I totally understand it. I, you know,
00:44:58
Speaker
And I'm not saying yours wasn't like, but you know, you didn't d choose it or something, but it's like, I could, and I can totally understand your frustration with me on the time at the time where it was like, you have to do this while something bad's to happen. Um, and then once I reconciled with that fact that that was true, it was, I was better. Um, whereas I was like, I was like, I was just tired of that life. Yeah. Which is also very fair. And actually like pause for a second i had a picture on my phone from a night i remember this night very clearly i rarely blacked out um but i had a picture on my phone because i was puking in the in my toilet after a night out drinking and it was like a thursday i had to work the next morning at 9 a.m and it was very very late and i was with a bunch of friends and we were drinking so much i want to say it was a birthday party um like fish bowls and like we everything to ourselves it was ah it was a night yeah and i remember like in inviting someone over and not telling my partner. I didn't end up having them over, but I was like, I'm going to do something silly and stupid. Yeah. um
00:45:56
Speaker
Obviously didn't invite them over. If you're listening to this, they did come over. I promise. um Because I have this picture my on my phone of me literally puking and crying in the bathtub and, or not in the bathtub, in the toilet. And I was like, I never want to feel this way. Yeah. But I've had a lot of moments like that. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
um which I haven't thrown up in over two years because I stopped drinking. Yeah, and like and it's great. It's the best. Oh, my God. was I was like really sick one time. Yeah. Maybe that. Yeah. But like that's fine. i I can deal with that. And I was like i was a quick puker when I was a drinker. Were you? Oh, my God. I i puked like clockwork. you know i would gaze Because i would I would binge drink, I'd binge drink, I'd puke, and then I'd keep drinking more. I'd make room. you know and and it was almost like ah was like ah it was like a game for me. What was that, puke and rally? yeah yeah Yeah, exactly. The rally was the best part. yeah you know it was and and ah it was like ah It was like a joke to me. you know but like
00:46:50
Speaker
Rarely did a night go by drinking where I wasn't puking some point. It's it's off what Which also, like, feel when you're out at space at spaces, yeah you see that all the time. oh someone yeah. Someone pukes in the corner they're like, all right, let's go. yeah And, like, being in a space like that now is so jarring. I, i like, when we were at that party at the birdhouse, it was like this afternoon kind of drag show.
00:47:13
Speaker
Very fun. yeah But I could like see people and like I'm very grateful that the Birdhouse doesn't say it. Oh yeah. Open drug policy. ah Use it openly. Don't have to hide it. It's all good. Just make sure that you're safe and they have people there that can regulate stuff. Um,
00:47:28
Speaker
But when I was seeing it and like freshly sober, it was so. Yeah. because I was like, i I want to be in that. Yeah, that's that's the mindset I want to be in when I'm partying for sure.
00:47:40
Speaker
And like partying, I think queer culture has very shift like it can shift into that. Yeah. I found a lot of spaces that aren't like that. Like I went to trans boxing this weekend and it was very, you know, you're just here to move the body. Yeah. um and Yeah. I know. I shouldn't I shouldn't be implying that it's like every queer space is and get a drug. But it's like but yeah, it's a lot of very tied in. It is. And like I kind of love that. Yeah. Not the drug, not necessarily like the drug use and everything.
00:48:04
Speaker
But like, yeah, party. Have a good time. freedom. Yeah. The freedom of that. The freedom that we can have these spaces. that are open to party and we don't have to hide it is wonderful. However, it's not for more. I'm not saying that it's not for everyone. Not everyone should do it. I think if you want to drink, how do drugs, party, go for it But the queer spaces are very tied into that. yeah And everything has to do with drinking. yeah And you can't you can't go to a party...
00:48:33
Speaker
that people aren't drinking. yeah That's why last year I had a sober birthday party and it was just at my house. I was like, I don't want anyone drinking. no one If you're doing drugs, do it outside. and like um You can, just don't do it.
00:48:45
Speaker
yeah Because it's my space now yeah and it's all my queer friends, but this is a space where you're not going to drink. And if that's not cool with you, that's your fault. yeah yeah i i I've had an interesting experience in that. like Actually, your your partner was was sort of my I don't know what you want to call. Like they were they were sort of my anchor through my first dipping toes into going out. and And what they would do is they were they were very gracious and they would come to the birdhouse with me when it would open.
00:49:15
Speaker
We would get tickets to shows and we would go at 10. So there was like no one there. totally the only one we were literally the only ones that very awkward right yeah and and we would just like sit and talk yeah we would just like post up at a but at a bench or something and we would talk and i would drink a couple pepsis you know diet pepsis and and then we'd go home um and that helped me re-acclimate to being around total the music and the lights and the sensations and the stuff while also not feeling too overwhelmed by like everyone is fucked up and you know exactly that really helped um because that but but then even you know i tried doing my first pride i think at year one and it was weird and it was hard it was very hard i i really i would just went with my girlfriend that year and like because she had never gone to a like the um pride parade yeah and i remember used to just filling up
00:50:10
Speaker
Big old water bottles with a bunch of alcohol and then just getting absolutely sloshed for the whole day from 9 a.m. until 3 a.m. Well, that's just it. yeah It's Pride, so it it goes late. And it goes late and it's very fun. So we were on Davy and like Davy's pretty dead these days for Pride. I don't know if what it was like last year, but um we just went to like the sober Pride event last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was...
00:50:31
Speaker
Awesome. yeah They had these amazing drag performers. Everything was sober. They had Bubbly. like It was totally great. But yeah but the first year, i was just like, we're at clubs because that's what she wanted to do. And I was like, yeah it's your first like like ah parade parade kind of pride. We'll go to Davey. We'll do the thing. Yeah. I've done it before, but I'll take you. Fuck yeah. And I, there's so many drunk people all around me at these clubs. Yeah. And I just kept drinking like non-alcoholic stuff because I was like, I need something and I need to have a drink in my hand. And that's kind of me all the time. Non-alcoholic? is a lifesaver. Yeah. And like I think people don't realize that. Sometimes I'm like the non-alcoholic stuff is not worth the money. Yeah. I wouldn't drink it regular times but like at an event it's the best. It's a lifesaver. There's something about it where it's almost a placebo effect sure but also like it just makes me feel included. and i loved I love being included in stuff.
00:51:29
Speaker
um And i think that's a big part as well which is like Back to my point being like queer spaces. are so revolved around these things. yes And again, I love it. yeah But there comes with a price. And like for people who are sober, it's very hard to find those spaces that are not that, like it took me a very long time to find something like queer choir and it took like through friends of friends of friends of friends to find a thing like trans boxing that I just went to for the first time, which was very cool. was all queer people yeah um finding queer spaces that are
00:52:06
Speaker
meant to be sober and you're there to do something and meet people and have fun but in a very i'm gonna say like almost childlike way where you're essentially it's essentially play just without the drugs yeah and without the drinking yeah um which is very nice yeah you know what's what's interesting to you though is that i i I it's a double-sided... think the other side of that coin is like, how do you show up in that space as well? yeah Because I did find this most recent Pride, i ended up going to The Hangover, like the big Saturday. you know I'd never done that day before. I'd never gone to that party before. It was like the legendary. Totally. It's been going for 20 years, whatever. you know and And what I did for myself was I just i really kind of like...
00:52:53
Speaker
I essentially like autism prepped. So i had my I had my loops. I had my loops and I had sunglasses. I've never had prescription sunglasses before. So I just never wear sunglasses because I'm blind.
00:53:05
Speaker
And this year I finally got a pair of prescription sunglasses. So I just I had my shields. You know, I have my shields on. I have my loops in and I had my non elk drink. Yeah. And I had fucking. See, I'm thinking like I would like to start dipping my toes stuff like that. And I think like the whole prep is very important because I do get so overstimulated and just overwhelmed with everything that's going on. There's people all around me. If I lose a friend, I'm like a lost puppy dog. You know, like I just want to be able to prepare myself for the worst. And I had a good crew. It was a small, but it was a tight crew. We all stuck together.
00:53:43
Speaker
And when we did split up, we knew where we were going. Totally. had rally points. yeah you know And and and as and and i ended up staying way longer than I thought I would. Really? Oh, yeah. I stayed for hours. And I ended up like dancing. And i ended up like...
00:53:58
Speaker
just you know doing all the things you would do when you were drunk yeah but but um but what was so interesting was that like at one point my friend Lee who was has been on the show recently love of my life oh like just like but just like oh my god the best. um But they they were so funny because they were fucked up. Yeah. But they were like they were gassing me up so much because they were like right they were like I have to be fucked up to be able to do this. And you're here having fun. You know? And like and they were like they were like I'm jealous of you because they were like you're having as much fun as I am but you're sober. And and they were like that's so incredible. It's so inspiring. Which is such a
00:54:44
Speaker
like hearing that. I've heard it like a few times and I'm like, thank you. know, I know. I was like, that's right, baby. You know, right? Absolutely, I can do this over. And I think that this is the year that I can get to that point. Again, it's that thing of like, you can't just like flip and go. It's like you've got to like reprogram, you know, and you've got to give yourself that time. That's why like a month, like don't bother. I'm Alberta and like I started drinking when I was 13.
00:55:09
Speaker
That's just it. 13-ish. Exactly. And like was like very controlled. Like my parents would let me have a Sure. They knew that I going experiment with it, so they just let me do it. Fuck yeah. very controlled. yeah And then 18 is the yes legal age. Yeah. 18th birthday. Oh, mayhem. And on. there was There was times where I was going out for like seven nights a week with friends. Oh, yeah. And getting absolutely sloshed, doing drugs, and waking up the next morning and still being drunk but going to work.
00:55:35
Speaker
Literally. Or still being high going to work. yeah And just like that programming... was so ingrained into me until the last two years. Exactly. Which was such a weird flip, especially because my brain was still developing. That's just it, exactly. And now I have to lose all of that, what I thought was a part of my life, what I thought that I had to do because I'm queer. Mm-hmm.
00:55:59
Speaker
And it's now I'm just like, I think I could go have fun and dance. I went to the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah. Yeah. um So the the very classic midnight screening and on Halloween with my girlfriend.
00:56:09
Speaker
And I had a drink because I was like, I think that this is the night that I'm going to do it. yeah And again, I only drink very seldomly now. um And it's one drink. It's never anything more. I just I wanted to throw in something, something I forgot to throw in earlier. What I was meaning about, like, why I shouldn't I don't like that take ah of my own oh don't is because, you know, harm reduction, I think, is far more beneficial, to you know. And and and and I think that like this sort of traditional classical abstinence, cold turkey forever. Yeah.
00:56:42
Speaker
it It doesn't work for everyone. no it i've had it It's had to work for me because of just my shit. yeah um But I think having drink is fine. yeah you know And I think people, again, it' it goes back to back of like, go easy yourself. i yeah I was talking to somebody recently who was getting sober and they were like, how'd you get two years? you know I've been a couple months, but I still, every once in while, I'll drink. And I'm like, so?
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah. Like, whatever. that's fine. You can still say that you're sober. That's just say that sober-ish or like 99% sober. Exactly, exactly. Which I'm very okay with. Yeah. It's like a vegan eating cheese every now and again. That's just it. That the example I was thinking of. It's the exact same thing. If it's not going harm you, then it's okay. And like, it wasn't, harming And don't let it derail the rest of it, right? Exactly. Just because, you know, if you don't eat,
00:57:24
Speaker
meat and then you have some cheese, that doesn't mean suddenly you have to now go eat meat again. It is like it doesn't mean you're going to go grab a burger and like you're going to feel bad about yourself because you promised that yourself that you would stick to this veganism. And you still need to be mindful. like you know I think it's really great that you can have that drink. You still need to be really... I need to be very mindful. Very mindful and very cognizant of like not sleeping more. And I always like to my partners, I'm like, maybe I can do one more. Yeah. They're like, actually? Yeah. And I'm very grateful. Like at the time, whenever they say like, actually, you've already had one. Yeah.
00:57:55
Speaker
Remember either you're driving. I'm like, legally I can drive. I've got my full license. I can drive with a drink in my system. Um, But my tolerance is also a lot lower these days. So when I was at this Rocky Horror Picture Show thing, A, I was having so much fun. Fuck yeah. Without a drink. and dunna I've done a Midnight Halloween. It's a blast. I will be doing that every year for the rest of my life. It's so much fun. and We dressed up. Did they do the thing? Did somebody blow away? My favorite part of the whole movie is when somebody blows away the fog from the pool.
00:58:23
Speaker
No, nope it wasn't it wasn't like... um Like were people weren't getting up and doing stuff? No, it was it was a screening of it and we were all just like heckling the show. ok Which was very fun. We had like the heckle kind of prompts. There's definitely people at the stands that have been like been there a lot of times before that were really on it. fuck yeah and there's just There's one moment where whatever's happening, it's yeah near the end and the pool's all foggy and then the pool clears away and what'll happen is somebody in the audience will run up and like...
00:58:51
Speaker
blow the smoke away hilarious it's so fucking funny i really hope next year that they do that if they don't you just go do it yeah but they did do the whole like virgin thing yeah yeah we were everyone gets up to do the time warp fuck yeah and i was dancing and like the the drag queen that was there as frankenfurter came up and was like you're doing like you look like you're so much fun and i was like it was so vindicating because yes i had like half a drink in my system sure but still i was like i'm It's nothing like, know. It's nothing like I used to do. And I wouldn't have done that six months ago. Exactly. If I was, like, still, even six months ago, sober. Yeah. So, I can't remember what my entire point was, but, like. We're just telling stories. We're just telling stories. And it's, you know, sober is great. It really not for everybody. Yeah. You know, one last thought about this idea of, like, you know, I think as I hear myself unpacking this idea of, like, the sort of
00:59:45
Speaker
interconnectedness of of drugs and alcohol and queer spaces. Like, i can't help but feel like maybe it's less of a a queer issue and more of like a North American or Canadian issue. No, that's a good point. Because like, I can't off the top of my head think of many straight spaces that aren't alcohol alcohol forward.
01:00:03
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, yeah, you know, so it's like I don't know if it's necessarily I think I think I almost want to review my own stance on that. Very good point. Right. We probably like could read like we just don't we don't really have culturally spaces of any kind that aren't alcohol forward. Exactly. You go to a sports show, whatever those are called. You go to a game. game. A sports show. You go to a game. You go to the theater. You go music. You go to whatever. You go to dinner. There's always alcohol. It's very ingrained in our society system.
01:00:39
Speaker
I guess, yeah, both queer and straight. You know? um It's just that then... it's I think that's just the space that we're in, I suppose. But then but there is something deeper about... like There is such... ah you know it To me, it's like it's almost like it's like the caricature of the queer space in the same way that it's like the the suffering, starving, tortured artist. yeah you know and it's like You don't have to suffer for your art. you actually need You just need space to be able to like imagine and think. You know you just need you just need stability, if anything.
01:01:10
Speaker
In the same way that like I think that there's this image of like, um you know, there's a song from a musical ride the cyclone that's like about like I want to be that fucked up girl, you know, right? You know, and it's like this dream of like I want to die in the gutters of Paris, you know, and it's like I think that's the caricature of the queer ideal. I think that's very on it as well. Yeah. I can I can see that in my head. Right. Exactly. It's very clear. yeah um I would I would I might do some research on i just like kind of deep dive and see if I can find a couple articles on why queer spaces have been so affiliated with alcohol and like I know I know that it's both straight and queer spaces like I'm not saying that it's no no no they queer drink yeah yeah yeah yeah and straight people are all yeah straight there's you straight edge you know yeah um but I would like to see if there's any articles on why it has been so ingrained. Because i'm I'm sure that there's a reason, but it's also, I think it's that underground thing. yeah yeah And I think that's that's a thought. That's ah like my own personal take on it.
01:02:10
Speaker
But I would like to see if there's any deeper... Traditionally marginalized groups needing some escape. needing It makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. There's a lot of there's a lot of things at play there. But i would I would like to do some more deep dive research into that.
Expressing Gratitude and Friendship Communication
01:02:24
Speaker
um You've got homework and we'll do a follow-up. I actually will do like a jot notes next time. Fuck yeah. um What I learned. Yeah. Yeah. Because I am very curious about that. so I'm going to go. I'm going to go do that. I love that. yeah You know, this is actually perfect timing. ah where We're at about the hour mark. um And, you know, i think it's good to to start the wind down for for for what we'll call part one.
01:02:46
Speaker
yeah um But, you know, before we we really move away from everything, i just, I really want to say, you know, William Raphael, um I love you so goddamn much. I love you. It's just, it's always such a joy to talk to you. and And, like, when I get to do, like, an in-person interview, it's so special. It's so special for me. And, like, um thank you for coming over and chatting with me. Honestly, i might just stay here. yeah i would You know, please, by all means. It's closer to work. Right? Hey, you know.
01:03:15
Speaker
um um but ah But yeah, no, ah you know, we took a little break in the middle of recording, yeah but we were saying like, ah We have so much more to talk about and I will have you back on very soon. Absolutely. So yeah, you have some homework. I do. We'll do a follow up on drugs and queer spaces. Amazing. And a bunch of other stuff. And a bunch of other stuff. you know Whatever comes to the brain. Right? Yeah.
01:03:38
Speaker
But, um, um, cycling back to like sort of, you know, just to try to keep it a little on theme with the show. Um, um, I always like to like ask about like what's something people could do to be a good friend this week.
01:03:51
Speaker
but But I'm curious, like, ah what ah what I'm curious about is I'm trying to sort of morph that a little bit. And i'm I'm doing this on the fly, so so bear with me. Um... um
01:04:03
Speaker
I don't think I'm right now I'm interested in sort of like do one thing and then never do it again. Right. You know, so I think more what I'm curious about your take on is the idea of like, what is an area of friendship that you would recommend reflecting on this week to sort of like think about how are you showing up in that area and what would you like to do differently?
01:04:32
Speaker
Interesting. For just myself? No, well, just for listeners. For an overarching. Yeah, listeners. Because the classic question is, what's one thing listeners could do this week to be a better friend? Yeah. But what's one specific area? Yeah. Interesting. How would you go about unpacking something?
01:04:49
Speaker
And how would you recommend people maybe try ah we were actually talking about this earlier. I recommend people actually texting their friends and saying, I want to hang out with you. Yeah. And that goes for everybody. I know that sometimes it's a two-way street. It's like, we both have BPD, you know, like, they're not texting me, so fuck them. Yeah.
01:05:07
Speaker
Just do it. Yeah. Just do it. If you want to see somebody, Even if you have like a qualm with them or something has happened, but you want to see them, message them. We're at this stage where we have access to people all the time. Not that everyone's entitled to that access, but you can send a message. yeah And that's all it takes. yeah If you haven't seen somebody in a while, a friend, just send them a message, see how they're doing, see if they want to hang out, or just chat with them on the phone or something. That's a really good way to be a friend, I think, is just...
01:05:37
Speaker
saying that I'm still here. i know we haven't seen each other in a while. I'm still here. And we'll talk as soon as we can. Yeah. And I would actually, i would actually build on that because, you know, you know yeah, we we were talking about this before recording and I think this is such a vital step and such a vital piece because it's something I'm struggling with right now.
01:05:53
Speaker
um And something I'm trying to practice is um to be the person who reaches out. But when that feels like it's not being reciprocated, right? um Still doing it because it's a part of you know my values. Maybe it's part of you know listeners' values to be connected.
01:06:11
Speaker
so So what I'm trying to do is is I'm trying to reach out, connect, and also say, I'd really love it if you did the same for me in the future. It's just setting up like a friendship guideline. Yeah. And i think that's really I think that's really important because like, I think people like we started being friends and like, as we get closer, it's like, okay, like now we're kind of like not enmeshed in our lives, but like, I know stuff about you. you know stuff ah about me. Like our lives have intertwined quite a bit throughout the years.
01:06:44
Speaker
And like, okay, like if, if that's what you're saying that you need me to do, I will absolutely do that. But now I know cause I didn't know before. Yes. And like, again, object permanence. Yeah. ah If it's your fear you're not in front of me, i I think about you very passingly and then sometimes I'll send a message. yeah um And it's just not something that I think about all the time because of scouting. I think you just cracked it right there. I think that's the recommendation is the idea of like figure out what your friendship parameters are. Yeah. like what are What are your friendship needs? And have you...
01:07:17
Speaker
Have you done those for other friends and have you said those are your needs to your friends? I'm like, they're they're like that's exactly it Just set some... I'm not going to say boundaries because I think some boundary setting is not. like yeah so That's why like the idea of is parameters. yeah Yeah, parameters are great. It's like, i need I would love if you did this. Not, I need you to.
01:07:36
Speaker
i think need is a very heavy word, yeah but I would love it if you also asked me to hang out. I would love it if... you came over and like hung out with me and you know we just sat and did nothing or we just i would love if we just talked because I haven't talked to you in a while. Something like that. What I like is the idea of like i don't think it's I don't think it's very effective to like open with a demand.
01:07:59
Speaker
right To open with like i you do this for me. right and this is This is what I always like to recommend. like Do it for someone first. yeah right Model it for someone else. right And then say, you know and also, like it would feel good if you would do that for me in the future. Right. You know, like sort of, so it's, so it's reciprocal. And that's not what the intention of like being manipulative and being like tit for tat, but it's being like, you know, this is how I show and receive love.
01:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. And so I'm going to show you this love. And, and I also want you to know that's how I would like to receive it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And like, I think, I think giving your friends, your, um, uh, what is it? The, the love, or affection. do You know what I'm talking about? Like the ways of affection? Yeah, like the like the love languages thing. Thank you. yeah That's whats what i was looking for. Giving your friends your love language? Yes. And being like, okay, what's yours? Yes. And if you don't know it, there's a bunch of websites figure it out. talk about it, right? Yeah, about your love language with your friends because friends are a part of your life. yeah And I don't know, like, if I want you to be around in my life, I need to make sure that we're going to be as close as possible.
01:09:04
Speaker
maybe not together all the time, but like, I want you to know what my love languages are so that way you can show that to me and I can show that to you. yeah andm just like, have a, have a, an understanding of each other better. yeah It always gets to that point. yeah yeah yeah I love it, I love it.
Conclusion and Social Media Mentions
01:09:20
Speaker
um William Raphael, is there anywhere you would like listeners to find you? Do you have anything you want to plug? do you have any like Do you want to stay mysterious and aloof? what what What's your preference? ah You are absolutely allowed to follow me. My Instagram's on Facebook.
01:09:35
Speaker
public that's what word i'm looking for it's what is it it's will.r.pacheco you can figure out how to spell that uh if you want ah ah it'll be in the show notes i'm also a dog walker dog trainer so um hit me up yeah yeah you want me to train your dogs yeah yeah yeah he's a he's a he's a ace ace dog trainer Did I trade you? like where's Where's my bell? Where's my bell? Is that how you know? Yeah. yeah I can't um yeah the but The purely audio format, and I just did a little dog movement. That really helped. Yeah. yeah So do it.
01:10:11
Speaker
I love it. I love it. I'll file it to say dog handler, not a sexual way. i think that's a very important thing to... Yes....to... to yeah You'll get a certain certain a certain type of swiper on field with that. Yeah, which I'm not entirely opposed to, but I don't think I'm ready for it. know Fair, yeah. um William Raphael.
01:10:30
Speaker
I love you so goddamn much. You don't know my middle name. I don't. Damn it. Jimothy. That's that's all we need. That's all we need. um um I can't think of anything else, and I don't know i don't really have a sign-off. Okay, bye. Okay, thank you. I love you.
01:10:48
Speaker
Bye.
01:10:50
Speaker
Sure.
01:10:57
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you one more time to Will for coming on the show. I just love the goddamn piss out of that boy. Be sure to give him a follow on Instagram. The link is in the show notes. He is a treat and a half.
01:11:10
Speaker
And while you're poking around the show notes, why not give Friendless a follow on all the big social medias? And by big social medias, I mean Instagram and TikTok. You can give it a follow at FriendlessPod. And lastly, as was announced on my social media page the other day, um my first live stream collaboration with the book warehouse on Maine is going to be going live January 21st. I believe it's at 2 p.m.
01:11:39
Speaker
Pacific time. If you are in the city, come on down, watch us record it live. If you're not, feel free to watch the live stream. It's going to be broadcast on YouTube and then the episode itself will be available on the feed the week the week after.
01:11:54
Speaker
I'm so frigging excited about this. um It's just going to be such a blast. um So please check it out. But that is going to do it for me this week. So let's just wrap things up here. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope to catch you back here next week. But hey, I'm not going to worry about that right now, and neither should you, because that is then, and this is now.
01:12:13
Speaker
So for now, I'll just say, try to be easy on yourself this week. And remember, I love you. Fun and safety sweet peas.
01:12:37
Speaker
you
01:13:10
Speaker
you