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The Art of Writing and Belonging (with special guest Genki Ferguson)
18 Plays35 minutes ago
In this very special episode of 'Friendless,' recorded live at the Book Warehouse on Main Street, host welcomes guest Genki Ferguson, an author based in Vancouver. Genki shares insights on his writing career, experiences working at Book Warehouse, and studying at Emily Carr University. He talks about his debut novel 'Satellite Love' and his forthcoming book 'The Love An Abalone Feels For the Sea' set for 2027 release. The discussion dives deep into the timelines of publishing, the process of writing, and the importance of community for writers. Genki and James also touch on the impact of independent bookstores, online communities like Bookstagram and BookTok, and how different storytelling mediums influence their work. The conversation wraps up with reflections on the state of the publishing industry and the significance of organic connections and community in a writer's journey.
You can find Genki Ferguson's debut novel Satellite Love at your local bookstore, and follow them on Instagram @genki_ferguson.
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Transcript
Introduction to Friendless Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hey there, sweet peas. Welcome back to Friendless. I'm your host, James Avramenko, and this week I have a very special treat for you. This episode is the first in what is developing into becoming a series of episodes that we'll be recording live from the book warehouse on Main Street.
00:00:28
Speaker
Main Street Vancouver, I should specify, um but for for anyone you know not no not listening
Meet Genki Ferguson
00:00:34
Speaker
locally. Anyway, ah joining me this week to kick things off, I could not have asked for a better guest. He is the author of two novels, including Satellite Love The one, the only, Genki Ferguson.
00:00:47
Speaker
We had an incredible conversation about not only the writing life and the publishing process, but also what it means to create art in community and how we might foster a deeper connection to these artistic communities. all of that and so much more. it was an absolute pleasure chatting with Genki and I know you're going to love this one. So it is time to lean back, get comfy, set your volume at a reasonable level and enjoy my interview with the one and only Genki Ferguson here on Friendless.
Vancouver's Literary Scene
00:01:27
Speaker
All right. So this week on Friendless is a really, really special event. We are recording live in the book warehouse here on Main Street. And I have my guest, Genki Ferguson. No worries. Thanks for having me. say Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. worked at this location or i i worked at book warehouse i didn't work at this location much i filled in like a couple shifts but i went to emily carr university i did the film program there and for about the whole time i was studying there and then also for a couple years after during pandemic weird kind of era i was working at the book warehouse on broadway so it kind of feels like home i've been working here basically since i moved to vancouver in like 2016 so I love it. This is my favorite store and my favorite chain. So yeah it feels like home in a lot of ways. so Big time.
00:02:14
Speaker
You know, there's lots of things I want to talk to you about today. But to get us started, just kind of set the set the playing field a
The Writer's Journey
00:02:20
Speaker
little bit. Right. I always ask my guests the same question with various levels of aggressiveness, just so that audiences know, you know, who the hell are you? Yeah, who the hell am I? That's a good question. That's actually a great question because I ask myself that every day and the mirror. My name is Genki Ferguson. I'm a writer or author working in Vancouver. I write fiction. I guess my debut novel, Satellite Love, came out with MacLennan Stewart in 2021. And then I have another title, ah the the Love and Abalone Feels for the Sea, forthcoming with Counterpoint Press in 2027.
00:02:50
Speaker
Amazing. Okay. I want to start there, actually. You know what? I'm going to kind of throw my notes out the window because that's something that I'm always really curious about, about the sort of like a timeline of publishing, right? You know, and sometimes you'll look at authors and you'll sort of look at their work and there's these big gaps, but it's not like they're not working. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with the, you know, there's the writing process, obviously, but then it's more about like,
00:03:15
Speaker
How does the publication, why 2027? Why
Research and Publishing Process
00:03:18
Speaker
so far out? Yeah, because it's the the manuscript is done, at least in some capacity. Now it hasn't been properly edited yet by the wonderful team at CounterPoint. And this is really just like ink not even dry like a couple weeks ago. Gotcha. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Sorry about the publishing industry. I mean, it takes a while, you know, so that alone, i mean, a draft can take you a year, let alone all the kind of planning beforehand if there's a research component. So Abalone or the love in Abalone feels for the sea.
00:03:45
Speaker
It's a long title. So in internal emails, we just call it abalone. But for that book, I went to MIA Japan in 2023. The book is centered on ama divers, which are traditionally female. They free dive without the use of oxygen masks, tanks or masks, just holding their breath and they dive far deep underwater.
00:04:02
Speaker
and kind of harvesting abalone and and sea snails or or just whatever else. and that's kind of how they make their life work. I think they they pop up in pop culture from time to time. Sometimes as pearl divers, which isn't quite what they are anymore. For that, I went to Mie in 2023, Mie, Japan, and spent, I believe it was about a spring kind of in one of these villages, learning about the culture and that sometimes even working with them too.
00:04:24
Speaker
There's a lot of fun, yeah but that as fun as that is, that's not writing.
Role of Literary Agents
00:04:28
Speaker
That's the research. So then after that, then you got to write the thing. And then even the process, you after you have a draft, you if you're being traditionally published, often you have an agent. An agent is kind of who's in your corner. They're the one that represents you to the publisher in a lot of ways and deals with the business side of things that writers, myself especially included, don't really know. There's there's actually your agent kind acts as your sword and your shield in a lot of ways, but your agent will help edit your your manuscript often and help place it with a publisher and an editor. That's a good fit for the book.
00:04:59
Speaker
um This is all before the deal was announced. yeah And then there's a whole process of finding a good good match. Different manuscripts, different novels require different levels of edits. Even if it is a light edit, there's still so much time that's required to properly market, promote a book, kind of get the word out there. And then publishing, they don't want to compete with themselves too, right? So...
00:05:17
Speaker
maybe they have another title or a similar author. They want to make sure they're launching your book at a good time. That was 2027. That's really exciting. And like I say, writing a book is not an easy task in and of itself. No. It's just so fascinating to me, the rest of the...
00:05:33
Speaker
production or the rest of the kind of system that
Writing as a Community Effort
00:05:35
Speaker
has to go in. Right. And it's something I wanted to kind of talk to you a little bit about. As a writer, there's this perception that you create in isolation, right? Yeah. Because it's just, there's the sort of myth of the genius at the typewriter. Yeah. I mean, and that myth is beneficial in a lot of ways too. Sure. For publishing as a whole. I mean, yeah, say more about that. What do you think?
00:05:54
Speaker
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but so much goes into creating and a novel. But ultimately, you know, often it helps to have this image of a, I definitely do not put myself in this category, but it helps to have the image of a reclusive character.
00:06:07
Speaker
author, at least in a classic sense. yeah But really there's so many people that have a hand, not just directly with the manuscript itself, like your editors and agents or copy editors. And there's also all the wonderful, like your agent will have assistants and readers and your editor will as well.
00:06:19
Speaker
But a book is a whole thing. It's not just the story. It's the cover. You know, Satellite Love has some art design in it too, in that there's illustrations throughout the book. And Emma Dolan was the designer who did a really wonderful job with that. Gotcha. So there's the design, there's the marketing, you know, there's a whole package that The act of writing the story is, even I hesitate to say that because that you're often bouncing off and getting friends to read it. exactly Writing is solitary at its most pure form, but there's no real way to write in isolation, I don't think. Yeah. Thank you for taking that because that's what has been in my mind. yeah but i'm But I'm always curious about, I think that there's sort of an outside perspective. but I think for people who don't write, they don't realize how much of a balance is required. Yeah, it's it's very community. It can be very community oriented. I think at its best it is. I guess, yeah, I'm hesitant to say like should or or has to be. or Yeah, I mean, everyone has their own process ultimately. And for myself, I think any writer should have their drafts reread, read by friends, read by trusted readers. and They call them beta readers. It's kind of like a bit of a slang or or lingo, I guess. Jargon, there's the word. Took me three tries. I am a writer, you know, believe it or not. I do know my words. That's kind of the jargon.
00:07:27
Speaker
so Yes, I have some of my friends here, for instance, who, while not directly helping write, definitely are part of the kind of community that you wrap yourself in as a writer.
00:07:37
Speaker
And that's, so that leads me to another point, you know, on the show, very often I'm discussing with guests about the communities that they kind of work within and that they interact with and how do they build these communities. But I think to begin with, what I always like to do is sort of lay the foundation of what does a word like community mean to you and how do you personally define that?
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's a tough one because writers are, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit, but they are you are inherently solitary. So it can be tough to build a community in that way. I think just fundamentally yeah to like one, I'm going to spend like five years of my life writing one story alone. There's a certain mindset you need to have. Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
So I think a writing community is in some ways very distinct from maybe, I'm thinking about my friends who are like jazz musicians that will get together and jam. I'm not really getting together with my writer friends jamming on a story, yeah but we'll meet for coffee or we'll go over, know, sometimes it's about industry too. Like have friends who will offer perspective if there's something I'm not quite sure about or on a larger story scale, maybe we'll talk about it. philosophy ah of story writing, which it sounds more fascinating than it is, but it's really just two writers trying to untangle different stories using the other person as a, as a backboard. What were we talking Oh, what is a community? I mean, I guess mutual support. I think at its best, a writing community, um doesn't really gatekeep information. I think it's helpful.
00:08:56
Speaker
From the level of craft to the level of industry, you want to be careful with what you share and who you share with. But I think if you build up trust with certain people, you should be able to discuss. yeah How do you find yourself, personally in your experience, how do you find yourself building those connections? you know Because I find that, like you know myself very much included, but I think many people, you know there's sort of this like outside looking in where they're like they see people who have friends or connections for decades and they're like, I want that now, but you can't build it like that. It has to be incremental. Where do you start?
00:09:28
Speaker
i mean, that's that's a tough, it's organic. and You find community so many places, you know, working at a bookstore for for like the better part of a decade helped with more so with like readers, but I definitely met some authors through the bookstore You know, for me, i'm had a leg up in some ways and also not others. I didn't do a MFA sure in creative writing, which is very common in kind of Western world to do a ah creative writing MFA.
00:09:54
Speaker
There's even a ah book. I haven't read it yet, but I just saw the other day on how. I think it's called, i'm I'm going to scrap this because I'm not i not i'm about to bungle my words, but MFA programs are a big part of developing community and voice. Like I know, for example, Sashiba and Kevin Chong are both kind of part of that world. I didn't do an MFA, but my father is an author. Gotcha. So since a young age, I've already felt like part of that world. yeah My father, Will Ferguson, whose book Killer on the First Page is out now at your favorite bookstore. Especially a book warehouse. Especially at Book Warehouse. He's not in Vancouver, but I'll sign it for you. yeah
00:10:27
Speaker
um But what was I going to say about that? bill Building Connections. Yeah, but Building Connections. know, I think it's you find connections whether it's through the Writers' Festival. of Vancouver has a great Writers' Festival. If you're in Vancouver or Calgary, Word Fest is been fantastic. There's Writers' Festivals pretty much anywhere, it feels like, any city. but Maybe it's education or just your local bookstore or getting to know writers. I mean, genuinely, 30 minutes before sitting down here,
00:10:51
Speaker
I was at Aperture Coffee, just like the next door. yeah And I ran into Andy Zuliani, who is an author in Vancouver and also a friend of mine. So its I think you settle in one place long enough, you start to get to know people. yeah And I'm Sarah. How did I meet Sarah?
00:11:04
Speaker
Oh, I met Sarah at the bookstore. i was working at Book Warehouse and she was an author. And her first book was coming out at the same time as mine. yeah yeah And that's one of the interesting things. i mean, I think... We're coming at it from the perspective, obviously, of like Canadian art. And yeah the the irony is there's not that many of
Indie Bookstores and Community Engagement
00:11:20
Speaker
us, right? yeah Even just collectively speaking, there's not that many Canadians. So it's kind of hard to miss us. But if you were to make a few recommended steps, you know you mentioned things like festivals. where would somebody go to begin with to make these connections or meet these people? You know, what would you recommend somebody? do I think indie bookstores are really like great, like a really core component of this book warehouse here, obviously is doing this amazing podcast and always has launches. So going to book launches, but then there's bookstores throughout the city too. I'm thinking like Neroonji on Granville Island. I want to give them a shout out too. They do really cool stuff. Jennifer there runs a like a,
00:11:57
Speaker
Bookstore social night, which is really just like a wine bar inside a bookstore after hours. So you just keep your eyes peeled, I guess. Indie bookstores are often hubs for this. And if you're lucky enough to live somewhere with the Writers Festival, obviously that's a big one. But even outside of the regular festival season, I know the Vancouver Writers Fest has a really great kind of year round set of programming.
00:12:17
Speaker
yeah You know, talking about the idea it independent bookstores versus the sort of the chains, you know, when we talk about the importance of an independent bookstore, what's your experience been like as an author with your connection? no Not just working there, but just what is your connection to independent bookstores and what kind of impact do you see them having on especially kind of newer or kind of breaking in author author's Yeah, I mean, i was a bookseller first and then an author second or a reader first, bookseller second, author third. you want to keep going that way?
00:12:50
Speaker
the I mean, I think ultimately we're lucky enough to live in a city that has a lot of independent bookstores. I think the chains have benefit in that it's a wide reach and you can count on them to have such a large stock. But then if you're lucky enough to live somewhere with a great indie bookstore or in Vancouver where there's many amazing indie bookstores, you know, you can really get to know the booksellers there, you know, I know different bookstores kind of cater to the taste of the area too. So maybe your book doesn't have, maybe it's not like the lead title and that's fine. And you're not getting crazy distribution, but you get to know your local community. You get to know your local independent bookstores and they'll stock more. You'll be able to go in, you'll be able to sign it. And again, this is just all comes down to this kind of nebulous idea of community, but... Yeah, I think it's, you know, independent bookstores really thrive, in my mind, on hand-selling, which is where a Book Warehouse has a really great tradition of having every staff member usually gets a shelf of their favorite books.
00:13:41
Speaker
One really enthusiastic bookseller at an indie can sell more than, like, an entire region of of other stores. 100%. It's those conversations, isn't it? a little, like, on a more, I guess, pragmatic level just about sales, but beyond sales, too. It's, again, this concept of community, and yeah and this is where you meet other writers. I mean, Sarah is probably...
00:14:00
Speaker
not probably is is one of my closest writer friends for sure. And I met her at Book Warehouse. Gotcha. Yeah.
Impact of Online Platforms
00:14:05
Speaker
Continuing on the idea of ah the impact and the importance of indie bookstores, looking further into the industry, this is actually something with Debbie and I, we're talking about just before recording is the impacts of things like BookTok, Bookstagram and these kinds of things, right? And these online communities that are really thriving and growing and Multitude of thoughts that I want to get your takes on. But to begin with, I'm curious about your personal experience.
00:14:31
Speaker
What kind of impact have you seen even just on your own personal growth, your own personal writing with these kinds of communities? Yeah, you know, I'm not super online, frankly, which I think many writers aren't.
00:14:42
Speaker
I'm mostly on Instagram. I find Instagram has been a great way to connect. I know BookTok has a really great way of just snatching a backlist title from an author and thrusting them into the spotlight. You know, I think that can be really positive.
00:14:55
Speaker
I think anywhere where organic kind of readership can grow, organic connection like that can grow is positive. One of my favorite, ah he's long dead, so... yeah This isn't really helping him out. Maybe his estate.
00:15:06
Speaker
But an author I've always loved was Osama Desai, who wrote this really psychological novel what called i'm No Longer Human. When I was in like high school and loved it, but it was like out of print. One weird translation somewhere. And then like five years ago, BookTok latched onto it. Now it's like in any bookstore ever. so I love it. if your micro internet trend can get young people reading like post-war Japanese fiction, I'm all for it. yeah I'm not really on BookTok, but I will say that Instagram's been great in that it kind of connects me to readers. It's cool to see where people are reading from. you know I'll get...
00:15:39
Speaker
tagged or or people send messages sometimes. Yeah, really, Instagram is kind of the only one that I'm on. So fair, yeah. You know, it's funny, just in this conversation with you and conversations earlier with Debbie, you know, I have this impulse to get kind of negative about it, right? I have this i have this impulse to get kind you know, I think i I have that around most sort of like online communities not built with people and, you know, and especially around sort of like things like the genre types that are being pushed and these kinds of things. They feel a little surface sometimes. But then you actually stop and you think about it and you're like, no, this is,
00:16:09
Speaker
great this is actually like so beneficial and if it's anything that's getting people reading kind of yeah that's kind of where i right that's kind of where i'm at i think any organic community will find themselves slowly being encroached on by entities that want to just sell more product but i guess my feeling is also publishing anything that gets people to read even if it's a flashy book talk title that's not my cup of tea i'm like well If people are picking this book up, yeah I'm going to sound like twice my age with making people put down their phone and pick up a book. I'm not going to be against it. Literally, though. Yeah. I mean, right now, I'm not super online, but if a book of mine gets a book talk hit, you'll see me every day. in front of the book talk, be like, hey guys, you whatever yeah trend is next or whatever. That's something that I think, you know, again, I'm obviously framing it from my personal perspective, but I also think it's a pretty common one to like, see it as like, oh, it's flippant, it's surface, it's whatever, it's, you know, the kids are just reading trash or whatever, but it's like,
00:17:07
Speaker
then that instills a love of reading that hopefully will bloom into something else Yeah, definitely. And I mean, you need to, not everything can be, can require like a master's and yeah in literary, you know, like you need to have entry points. And I think that's really important. I, myself, I don't think I write a mixture of kind of literary or commercial. it's It's hard for myself to tell or any writer to tell what niche they fit in all the time. yeah But yeah, I think anything that,
00:17:32
Speaker
You need an entry point. Yeah. Right. It's like any art. I'm i'm all into to literature, but I don't know a lot about jazz, for instance. But I've had friends who have pointed me towards, you know, maybe something more approachable that will kind of start me on a journey. so Do you see the intersection of other storytelling mediums?
00:17:51
Speaker
Do you see it impacting your own writing? Are you witnessing shifts in how...
Influences on Writing
00:17:56
Speaker
book stories are being told because of the impacts of things like, you know, narrative structures in video games or narrative, you know, the changes of movies or whatever it might be, or TV. Yeah, actually, that is something I've thought about a decent amount. Personally, I mean, it's like trying to psychoanalyze yourself. You know, I can't really answer that. But I mean, I've been really interested, I think,
00:18:13
Speaker
You know, video games especially are as a medium. I used to be a big gamer when I was in like high school, then I went to university and had responsibilities. So not so much anymore. But I think games especially are really interesting kind of frontier. It's such a young medium. I mean, we talk about like cinema being a young medium, but video games are even younger than that. Literature has had about a couple like thousand year head start. So yeah it'll be interesting to see where more interactive modes of storytelling go.
00:18:39
Speaker
I mean, I'll play, what did I play recently that was interesting. I mean, i had a writer friend recommend to me this game called Nier Automata, which is like, don't know if you're familiar. It's like ah a Japanese kind of action RPG. I'm not super, I don't play a lot of that kind of game, but it was, what was interesting about it is that you need to basically play the game over three separate times to get the full story. Yes. I don't think you can really write a book that you have to read three separate. Well, maybe you can. Who knows? Well, that' like that's my curiosity. We don't know what's going happen. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's some really amazing, I'm thinking of Helen DeWitt's The Last Samurai, which is this really sprawling postmodern novel that is so much with form.
00:19:14
Speaker
I think as a writer, you always want to be thinking about form. Yes. And that's my curiosity. Even saying something like literature has thousands, it's the word is thousands of years. The novel only really has a couple hundred by scale, still morphing and still coming together. And it's not necessarily, I think sometimes we have this image of the novel as this eternal totem when in fact it's itself still morphing and shifting and learning what it can be, right? Yeah, it's like any art, it needs to evolve to survive. And I think, you know, books are maybe no longer the most dominant form of media consumption anymore. But in a way that frees it up. Right now, you would give that mantle to long form TV. No, not so much movies anymore. It feels like every art is always in a crisis of identity. Yes. In some ways, I think it's healthy. Yeah, I think that's a really fascinating point too, of the idea of when it moves away from the spotlight, that's actually when you have a bigger opportunity to do something new. I think about a book like, i don't know if you've ever read House of Leaves.
00:20:10
Speaker
I'm very familiar. haven't it, but I'm very, very familiar. mean, it's not a book I've ever been able to finish, but it is something that is like, it's like homework, but it's a book. I've never read something like it, and it feels like there's no way to make it anything but a book, you know? That's, I think, the opportunities that present. Yeah, and that's kind of the one like advice I do have to like younger writers because I get get asked a lot by people who want to write a book and kind of the question is always like, do you actually want to write a book or is it that you want to tell the story and the book is the only medium that you can think of yeah or that is most accessible to you? yeah
00:20:43
Speaker
Which is fine, but I think if you're writing a novel, it's not necessarily easy. So you should make sure that what you want, there's a reason why you want to write it in this way. Yes. And that you wouldn't be better suited to There's so many different forms, like is this serial over a newsletter or maybe short story collection or maybe you want to put together like an RPG maker game or do an indie make or indie film.
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah, thats that's kind of the one thing is if you have this idea for a story in your mind, make sure you actually know what it is meant to be. Yeah. That's something I think about a lot. I remember years ago, i got suckered into getting one of those masterclass ah subscriptions. Oh, website master lives that's what he's tempted me. Yeah. I got totally targeted. I got a it. It was in lockdown. I got a message. yeah Yeah. And one of the first ones I did was the David Lynch class, which was fascinating. One of the things that he taught was the idea of, you know, he didn't consider himself a filmmaker or a painter or a musician. He considered himself an artist. And what he would do is whenever he got an impulse, he would ask, what does this impulse want to be?
00:21:44
Speaker
You know, and if it wants to be a song, he'd write a song. If wants to be a movie, he'd make it a movie, you know? And I think something that kind of holds a lot of people back is this idea that I have this idea. I want it to be a movie, but I don't know movie people. I don't know how to make a movie. So instead, I'm going to make it a book and hope somebody else makes it a movie or or something like that. Yeah. I think you'd be surprised with what you can do as it just on your own. i went to film school, actually. I went to Emily Carr. So I felt more like an art school than a film school. was a pretty like kind out there program.
00:22:15
Speaker
But I mean, originally, Satellite Love was meant to be a screenplay. And then I realized that I just I understood and frankly, loved books much more than I understood or appreciated film. But I think, you know, the reverse can be true, too. And being at Emily Carr or being in Vancouver for long enough, going to VIF, for example, I saw the Modes screening. Modes is their experimental shorts program.
00:22:36
Speaker
And there filmmakers and artists doing amazing stuff with like shoestring budgets and a camera. I think what's most important, no matter what you do, is to be educated in your form, not necessarily get a MFA, find a mentor, although those can all be valid too.
00:22:54
Speaker
just absorb just input like if you want to make a film just know everything everything there is to do it but if you want to write a book make sure you know what you're writing make sure you know the form i'm going to keep using jazz analysis yeah because apparently i don't know much about jazz but if i wanted to make an album i wouldn't just jump into it and hope it comes to me yeah i would want to pay respect to the media i think that's so important That raises really, you know, something I've i've been a drama teacher in the past many years, a teacher of some capacity for even longer. But something that I'm always trying to get across to all my students is this idea that, you know, more often than people think that they can just jump in and break the rules right away. They can just make something brand new and, you know, right.
00:23:32
Speaker
And it's so much more beneficial to learn the fundamentals and to learn how to do the fundamentals well. before you can then break out. Yeah, fully. So it's like try to write the most boilerplate novel first before you then start experimenting. Learn to read like a writer. Like you're reading, it's a different way of reading where you should understand also how the story is being put together and why certain decisions are being made. Or if you don't like something, reading something you don't like is so valuable too. Why don't you like it? What would you have done differently? And more on a deeper level than just, oh, I don't like this character. Like, well, why is it?
00:24:03
Speaker
Do they feel inconsistent? Does it not feel true to this world? Or what would you change? And would your change even be better? Or is it a different story at that point? Yeah. Well, and the idea too, I think digging into that a little deeper too, because I think you raise a really valid point about the idea of like, sometimes people are uncomfortable with art about quote unquote bad people. You know, and and, you know, the perfect example is something like Lolita, where it's like you people think that it's like in defense of the narrator and it's very much not. Yeah. You know, do you think that this comes down to some level of like media literacy or critical thinking?
00:24:38
Speaker
skills without Without getting on a soapbox? like yeah that's Definitely, i would I would say so. We're also on a podcast. so Yeah, I guess that's that's what soapbox is. What were you talking about Media literacy? Yeah, and I think it you know not to rag on current social media or whatever, but I think having, we're in a crisis of attention span. I think even people who love the whole TikTok Reels ecosystem would admit that.
00:24:57
Speaker
And I think it's important to learn to sit with art that makes you uncomfortable. In the same way that important to learn to sit with situations in life that make you uncomfortable. Not everything has to be curated to make you comfy and happy all the time. The world is so stressful. I get it. But at least if you want to engage with a full... just experience of being a human there's more to it than just making sure you're in a safe bubble read works that perplexes you or that maybe upsets you but and then know why you don't have to like it after yes but try to come do it halfway as a reader I'm always trying to do that too I mean have my genres that I like but if I find myself reading too much of
00:25:34
Speaker
I read a lot of Japanese fiction for instance, especially when I was writing my debut. But if I find I'm reading too much of one genre, I'll try to switch it up and don't know, maybe read like a Czech-Slovakian sci-fi novel I've never read before.
00:25:44
Speaker
i may not get it or or necessarily like it, but I'll force myself to to sit through and read the whole thing. I mean, Elena Ferrante's My Brilliant Friend. It's a tetralogy of four... I'm not choosing something obscure here. It's like a really, yeah, they made like an HBO series of it.
00:26:00
Speaker
But I picked it up thinking I wouldn't enjoy it at all because I'm like, well, what am I interested about? Like Naples, Italy, post-war, you know, but it ended up being one of the most like thrilling reads. And I would have never known if I hadn't thought to make myself uncomfortable. That was me in the first Court Rose and Thorns book. Oh, yeah. I thought I was going to hate it. I was dating somebody at the time they were like, no, please just try it. The Sir James. Yeah, yeah. I haven't read it, but maybe that's I flew through it. I loved it. I mean, it's not something I'm going read all of that genre forever. But you wouldn't have known. And now you know a little something more about yourself, too. Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
And thats isn't that the case, too, where it's like, is it that you don't like something or is it that you haven't actually experienced it? So you are telling yourself you don't like it so that you can... Exactly. Yeah. So I think that's like, and same with thing with community. To build community, you have to be inconvenienced. You have to be uncomfortable. yeah It's easy to isolate. And catch myself doing this sometimes too, but yeah having a friend means sometimes putting up with something that's annoying about them or you're annoying them too. It goes both ways. Like if you want to build up a network, it can't,
00:27:00
Speaker
You're not just going to hang out with clones of yourself. Yeah. so In my personal experience, there's been to such a desperation for community.
Building a Creative Community
00:27:06
Speaker
But then this frustration when it's like, well, nobody else is showing up. And it's like, yeah, but you're not showing up.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah. You know, so it's like if you want a friend, you have to be one first. If you want a community, you have to be a community for someone else. You have to make the effort to reach out to a writer that you're maybe a little intimidated of or put yourself out there. If I hadn't struck up a conversation with Sarah or Sashi, for that matter, I've known Kevin since I was a kid, so that's a little A little easier, yeah. And my dad, too. He was stuck with me at least for 18 years. What would hope you can talk to him? Yeah, yeah, I can. But my non-relatives non-family friends, if I hadn't made the effort, I wouldn't have gotten to know them.
00:27:46
Speaker
Do you have go-to... I'm always... hesitant around things like prescriptive advice, you know, but I'm always curious about how people take these kinds of questions on of like, what would be some strategies that you would recommend to somebody to like, get over that? And or how would you approach if you if you didn't know an enough, and you wanted to, you know, I think it comes down to being okay with yourself. Like yeah if I, but I've had lovely experiences with all these people, but I've had not great experiences with other writers too.
00:28:15
Speaker
But it's ultimately, i mean, they don't change who you are. If there's someone that you want to admire or a writer that you're curious about and they maybe blow you off, that doesn't make you worse for it. If anything, it just makes them, you know, it drops their esteem maybe. The same way that discomfort is the cost of community. So is you have to be okay to be afraid of. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Interesting. I like that. Do you find yourself,
00:28:38
Speaker
actively trying to separate the art and the artist in those
Art and Personality
00:28:43
Speaker
moments? Or does that end up tying it deeper? In what way? Like, let's say you meet an author and they're a total dickhead. Do you separate that person from the art or does that influence how you engage with it? not going to lie It makes it harder to like, yeah, yeah yeah so yeah I can't. yeah It does. yeah Are you, do you philosophically speaking, do you find yourself,
00:29:03
Speaker
leaning more towards like the art is the artist or do you find yourself separating the you know like this sort of the definitely you know you could ask me every day of the year and I'll have 365 different answers for you so that's a tough one I mean so I'm gonna give the milquetoast Canadian answer like oh it depends I mean I think all things is always context as king so like i you know yeah i think as ultimately you know i went to art school and your statement and your practice you knowre we're taught and we understand that it does inform your work. And I'll enjoy certain writers so much more if I know their history, for instance, a decision in in a film or in a writing or or maybe in in music too.
00:29:40
Speaker
Maybe it makes a little more sense to me if I know where that writer is or that artist is coming from. Yes. So I guess I don't fully separate them. I think it's, and also if the artist is doing something really morally reprehensible, it's just hard to enjoy it anymore. Big time, big time. Yeah, yeah, I guess i Yeah.
00:29:57
Speaker
No, that's really it. I like that. I really, I found that really interesting. And I think, I think you nailed something there too about the idea that, and it's kind of spider webbing my brain into yeah examples in my mind of like when you learn about somebody's history and then you, and then you're like, oh that's,
00:30:13
Speaker
why they're telling the story. can enrich it as well. know, like separating art from the artist doesn't just mean like overlooking something terrible to appreciate something, you know, maybe a beautiful novel. I mean, it can also mean enriching your understanding work of a career. one that always comes to people's. I love just talking about Osamu Dazai and so much of his life really informs his work. He's kind of built up this mythos around himself. Yes, yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
in the past tense, I guess, but we had just a really troubled life. yeah That reflects so clearly in Japanese literature. There was kind of this whole movement called the I novel, which was basically like auto fiction kind of.
00:30:45
Speaker
um And that's an example of meshing as close as possible in the form of fiction, the art and the artist. do you I remember reading a book a couple of years ago. The title escapes me now. Something like reality, something, I don't know. But it was talking about the idea that fiction often houses deeper truths than nonfiction and i'm wondering in your experience do you find that to be right paid to write fiction so my answer is yes do you find yourself what do you like when you are writing fiction versus when you're writing nonfiction in my experience i find it's like almost safer to say truer things through fiction I guess an element of that, I mean, what I'm trying to, I think the best fiction tries to name something unnameable yeah to put to words something that fundamentally resists being put
Truth in Fiction
00:31:31
Speaker
into words. yeah So that's, I think, the tension of what makes the best of fiction so was so thrilling and so interesting.
00:31:37
Speaker
I think with Satellite Love, I really tried to do that with this sense of, belonging but also the so much of what we talked about really ties into this. and um The tension of wanting to protect whilst being so vulnerable yourself. yeah It's about a young girl who falls in love with a satellite who may or may not even exist.
00:31:53
Speaker
With Abalone, that's a really core part of it too is you know what does it mean to try and protect or care for someone when you yourself maybe need to be protected as well? Or are you maybe just imposing this protection, maybe offer something to you? you know, I'm not a not a philosopher. I'm not an essayist. So for me, I i try to approach that in fiction.
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah.
Publishing Landscape Challenges
00:32:14
Speaker
I love that. I'm just watching the time here. So I'm just going to move to kind of a couple of little wrap up questions, but I think to sort of cap off the discussion, I'm curious about what is your perspective on, this really big, you do not have to have any kind of professional answer, but I'm just curious about your perspective on like, what's your take on the state of the industry right now of publishing, of writing, of, you know, what's your experience with where are words right now and what's something that gives you hope and what's something that you're hoping we avoid? so That's a big question. The state of the industry, I mean, i think we're reaching a point where so many people have so many different stories to be told. It's never been easier and also harder to be seen at the same time. There's so much signal and noise, as they say. Anyone can write a novel, and I think that's not bad. i think there's so many different ways now to have your story read.
00:33:03
Speaker
Whether it's through traditional publishing or self-publishing, think what's important is to remember is that art or storytelling is ultimately, or should be, in my mind. It's a one-to-one experience. Maybe your book is read by a million people, but one person is reading it at a time. yeah And that's kind of what ah I think as writers, as artists, you should focus on is that individual kind of connection. In terms of publishing as a whole, similar to the way that indies are growing, there's so many amazing kind of indie presses growing too.
00:33:32
Speaker
My agent is the one who knows the industry better than me. So I guess we could ask her, I guess from an artist, and I can answer that.
Relevance of Physical Books
00:33:39
Speaker
It's never been easier to write a novel. It's never been harder to have it read. You should look for ways in the same way that you should understand if your story should be a novel or if it should be a movie or if it should be a video game or a conceptual soundscape or or whatever, or a podcast. You should also think about how do you want your work to find an audience? How do you want to connect? And that doesn't necessarily mean going viral on TikTok or having it on shelves everywhere. Maybe it's a more direct kind of thing.
00:34:08
Speaker
think in the digital age, I'd like to think that maybe there's a bit of inertia coming back to physical goods and kind of individual connection. I mean, vinyl is now, I don't have a record player, but vinyl is a thing. No matter how much we talk about ebooks, people are still buying physical books and coming to independent bookstores. That's really I really appreciate that perspective. And it is something that, you know, I was mentioning before, you have an inclination towards the doom and gloom.
00:34:29
Speaker
But then when you actually sit with things, and also when you look at the actual numbers, yeah and you look at the actual, like, what's really going on, not just assumptions and not just kind of what your echo chambers are telling you, I think there's a lot more hope than not. Yeah, yeah I mean, there's never been more people alive in one moment as there are now, which is terrifying and also incredible. and I don't know, it's genuinely more than any one brain can comprehend. Exactly, exactly. That's why I tend to put those, you know, I love exploring those thoughts. And then I also love putting those thoughts away because it's like, there's no way to hold it If you're trying to create something, you need to be a little ignorant to that. You're not going to, if you're constantly thinking about, oh there's like a hundred thousand other people writing a novel at this moment.
00:35:10
Speaker
And at this coffee shop, there's two other guys writing their novels. and That guy's further along than me. I can see the word count. You're never going to get anything done. so Yeah. yeah Geiki, this has been such a pleasure chatting with you. Thanks for having me here. Absolutely. But before we wrap up, I was wondering, you know, for the people who are watching, they've seen our little backdrop of books.
00:35:27
Speaker
wonder if you want to tell me a little bit about, maybe highlight some of these books for, if you know, if people wanted to hop down to the book warehouse. Yeah, like lightning round. It's actually a good mixture of books too, ranging from literary to kind of mystery to speculative.
00:35:42
Speaker
two wonderful debuts. yeah yeah Please buy my book. good oh That one's yours, I'll let you talk about that. Double A for Ben Sun Yuh, Kevin Chong came out a couple years ago, got a lot of buzz. I think was shortlisted for the it was shortlisted for the Giller. It's kind kind of a coming of age story set in Chinatown. Kevin has a really strong, at times funny, at times kind of sad voice. I love Kevin's work and this one's no exception.
00:36:06
Speaker
Sashibat is a killer, killer wordsmith. It's a collection of stories, death by a thousand cuts. and every story feels like cut in a way. yeah She can be blisteringly funny and devastating too at times. i can't recommend her enough.
00:36:18
Speaker
Sarah Sook, Meet Me at Blue Hour. It's kind of a speculative novel about memory loss. She's written quite a bit. We debuted at the same time, but she is very prolific. She's written, i think Made in Korea was her debut, which was a kind YA romance.
00:36:32
Speaker
And then Meet Me at Blue Hour is nearest. It's kind of speculative. So you lean a little towards that. It just came out hardcover. Cool. are On the first page, that's my dad and my uncle. Will Ferguson's my father. Ian Ferguson's my uncle.
00:36:43
Speaker
That's part of a series they have by Miranda Abbott. Kind of like a cozy mystery about a now retired TV star who's kind of unable to let her fame go, who now finds herself thrust into solving a long string of mysteries in this small town. Oh my God, these all sound amazing. And then um my own satellite love. a kind of literary coming of age, magic realist story about a young girl in Southern Japan who falls in love with a satellite that flies above her house every day.
00:37:08
Speaker
Gorgeous. And what can you tell me about A Body More Tolerable? I really wanted to highlight this because actually, funny enough, this book, Body More Tolerable, is what... kick-started us doing all of this. Jay Simpson is a poet that I adored. They're a local poet here. And this just came out earlier this year. And I was just, I was in the store.
00:37:25
Speaker
That was actually a book club selection for my book club a month or two ago. And then I was in the store and just got talking to Debbie and then mentioned I had a podcast. She was like, oh, you should record one here. Oh, amazing. Yeah, so it's literally... I'm familiar with Jay Simpsons. I've seen them kind of around town, but I've always been too scared to talk to them. Yeah, so next time, put yourself out there, right? And I'm sure Jay's going to wonderful to talk to. yeah Before we wrap up, where can listeners find you? Where can they follow you? think at the moment, just one place. used to be on Twitter.
00:37:52
Speaker
Okay. Or X. yeah Not anymore. I'm on i'm on Instagram. Genki underscore Ferguson. It'll be right here. G-E-N-K-I underscore F-E-R-G-U-S-O-N. Worst case scenario, it'll be in the shout outs. You can look here. That's my name. Just put an underscore. right yeah Maybe that's what I'll do. then there's an explosion here.
00:38:11
Speaker
And then a rain for it. I'll see what I got. Episode's never coming out. Well, yeah. One more time. Thank you so much i really appreciate Thank you. a pleasure.
00:38:30
Speaker
And that's it. Thank you so much for listening through to this week's episode. And a huge thank you to Genki for joining me. What an absolute pleasure it was to not only to meet him, but to get to know him and to hear all of his perspectives on such an exciting um time in his career. If you want to check out Genki's work, I could not recommend it highly enough. You can find Satellite Love. It is out now in all of your favorite bookstores. Why not check out The Book Warehouse on Main Street? And be sure to keep an eye out for his forthcoming novel, The Love an Avalon Feels for the Sea. It is coming out in 2027. You can also follow him on Instagram at Genki underscore Ferguson.
00:39:14
Speaker
All the links are going to be in the show notes. And let me say another massive thank you to the book warehouse on Main Street, especially shout out to Debbie for letting us record in the store. If you are in Vancouver, be sure to swing by and say hi to this incredible team. It is my favorite bookstore in the city. And I wish everybody would um just give it all the support it deserves. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review or a rating wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps other people find this show and it's completely free. And if you want to support Friendless, you can head over to friendlesspod.com where you will find links to all the social medias and all the ways to get in touch. But that's it for this week. So I'm going to wrap things up here. Thank you one more time for listening. And I hope to catch back here next week for another brand new episode. But as always, I'm not going to worry about that right now. And neither should you. Because that is then and this is now.
00:40:14
Speaker
So for now, I'll just say I love you and I wish you well. Fun and safety, sweet peas.
00:40:37
Speaker
Thank you.