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Going Bi-ral with RJ Aguiar
4.5k Plays2 years ago
What's it like to go viral with your Bi+ coming out story? We asked that and more to RJ Aguiar, the OG bi YouTube sensation. in our 2-part season 5 premiere! In this episode, RJ discuss his personal bisexual journey, reactions to his coming out (both privately and on social media), the experience of being a very public bi guy years before the more recent (modest) increase in representation, how to balance and integrate Bi+ content with other important issues, the ways that social media shapes how we see ourselves, and much more. Stay tuned for part 2 where we discuss more about RJ's modeling, activism, and his work with the LA Bi+ Task Force!
Follow RJ on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/damnitrj
Follow RJ on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DamnItRJ
Follow RJ on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@damnitrj
"Quick Question" hosted by RJ on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gotaquickquestion
"Quick Question on Snapchat: https://story.snapchat.com/p/bd17b093-426b-4a13-9d9f-a36dfe8c9231/192565335373824?sender_web_id=ccdf3237-e350-4aa8-9fad-f3ed9dd93d8b&device_type=desktop&is_copy_url=true
"TheNotAdam", RJ's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/thenotadam
LA Bi+ Task Force: labitaskforce.org
Two Bi Guys is produced and edited by Rob Cohen
Created by Rob Cohen and Alex Boyd
Logo art by Kaitlin Weinman
Music by Ross Mintzer
We are supported by The Gotham
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Transcript
Rob's Pride Parade Adventures
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello everyone! Welcome back to another season of 2. Bye guys, I'm Rob. I cannot believe this season is here already. I can't believe it's time. I hope you've all been having an amazing summer filled with lots of pride.
00:00:27
Speaker
I just got back from Amsterdam Pride. I was there because actually a listener of this podcast, Leroy, invited me. He and Vera, his partner, were organizing and designing the first ever Buy Plus Netherlands boat on the canal parade for Pride.
00:00:45
Speaker
Buy Plus Netherlands is an awesome organization over there. They're a community group. They run social functions and other online things like the Buy World Meetup, which I believe is every couple months, maybe four times a year, maybe two times a year. But check out the next Buy Plus World Meetup. I will be there. It's run by Buy Plus Netherlands. I had such, such an amazing time over there meeting everyone in that group, being on the boat, helping them put it together.
00:01:14
Speaker
and building by community and by culture. The whole thing just really made me feel very lucky to be bisexual, also that I realized I was bisexual, and then that I came out as bisexual and all the things that have happened after I came out, because if all of those things had not happened,
00:01:36
Speaker
I would not have met this wonderful group. I would not have had that experience at Amsterdam Pride. I would not have been part of this international bi plus community that is so warm and accepting and loving. The theme of the boat was more love for everyone. It was written in Dutch on the side. I think that's a pretty good motto for bi people.
00:01:56
Speaker
It was very special because I didn't really get to do New York City pride this year. I came back to New York for pride and then got COVID, unfortunately, so I had to miss most of pride in New York. I did get some pride in LA this year. I marched in the WeHo pride parade with Ambi.
00:02:16
Speaker
another awesome bi community organization out in Los Angeles. That was so fun. It was so amazing to walk in that parade and see the bi flags waving back at us, get excited when our group passed by. It's always so much fun to see that and experience that bi visibility because people are really hungry for it because it hasn't existed for so long.
00:02:39
Speaker
If you are not part of a local bi community, I highly encourage you to find one if you can, if it's safe to, if you're out. There are also some great online bi communities. I am on the leadership committee of bi request. As always, anyone who listens to this podcast is welcome to come to any online bi request meeting. And bi also does some online stuff. There's other good online groups. Bi community is so important.
Teasing Two Bye Guys Season
00:03:04
Speaker
I can't stress that enough and I hope everyone gets some.
00:03:09
Speaker
We have an awesome season coming up for you here on Two Bye Guys. I've already recorded a bunch of interviews for our season premiere and second episode. We have RJ Aguirre. He is a content creator and much more you'll hear when we actually get into the interview. We'll also hear later from Steven Quatterer who created an app called Hetero. I recommend you download that and check it out before that interview drops. Also Dominic Arnall who is
00:03:36
Speaker
possibly the only bi man who runs an LGBT plus charity in the UK. So we're going to talk all about the charity space and why the bi community typically is underfunded and has fewer resources and how that plays out and what we can do about it.
00:03:53
Speaker
We also are going to hear from Dr. Mimi Huang. I'm so excited for that interview. It was so much fun. I've been wanting Dr. Mimi to be on the podcast for a while now, and we finally made it happen. I also marched with her in the WeHo Pride Parade and got to meet her in person finally. So stay tuned for that interview. It's going to be great. Plus a lot more in the second half of the season. Lots of good stuff coming up. And now a brief message from our podcasting platform and sponsor, Zencaster.
Zencastr Promotion
00:04:20
Speaker
And then we'll get on with the show. Enjoy.
00:04:26
Speaker
Starting a podcast can seem daunting and challenging, but it doesn't have to be. Zencaster's all-in-one web solution makes the process quick and painless the way it should be. I have not been using Zencaster to produce this podcast for three seasons. This is the third. I researched a bunch of them, and this is the one I chose before I even joined the Zencaster Creator Network.
00:04:45
Speaker
One of the big reasons is because it records everything locally, so you don't get any of that internet static. You're getting clean audio for each person. Zengaster can then combine the tracks together and do some noise reduction and other mixing, or it can give you separate tracks for each person depending on how much editing you want to do. Not only does Zengaster provide crystal clear sound, it also provides gorgeous HD video if you've seen our Instagram page. You've seen the video that Zengaster produces. It looks great.
00:05:13
Speaker
And the whole thing is so easy to use, even for my guests who are not very tech savvy. There's nothing to download. You just click the link and we start recording. Zengester is all about making your podcasting experience easy and with everything from local recording to automatic post-production in the tool, you don't have to leave your browser to get the episode done.
00:05:30
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experience as I do for all my podcasts and content needs. So if you go to zencaster.com slash pricing and enter the promo code tobuyguys, you will get 30% off your first three months. Pretty good deal. That's Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R dot com slash pricing promo code tobuyguys. T-W-O-B-I-G-U-I-S. It's time to share your story with Zencaster.
Meet RJ Aguirre
00:05:58
Speaker
okay the dick jokes will abound yeah i can't believe we missed all those slut jokes and i wasn't recording that okay uh yeah no we'll just have to remember those the old-fashioned way
00:06:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Two Bye, guys. I am Rob. I am here with a lovely writer-creator-performer out in Los Angeles who I've met since I've moved out here. I am joined by RJ Aguirre. Did I pronounce your name correctly?
00:06:35
Speaker
It's Agyar, but like Agyar, yeah, like backyard sort of backyard. All right. RJ Agyar is a writer, creator, performer, model and advocate for the queer community, best known for his work across social media. He is the creator and host of Quick Question from Brainjolt Media, which you can find on TikTok and Snapchat. He first, I have so much to say about you, just get ready.
00:07:03
Speaker
I get around, I get around. And it's like not even all of everything you've done. He first rose to notoriety with his YouTube channel, The Not Adam. He has since appeared on Buzzfeed, Blossom, Watch Trending. His work has been featured on the Huffington Post, Upworthy, Daily Dot, The Advocate, and much more. As an activist, RJ has worked with the Trevor Project, the Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, Binet USA, Planned Parenthood,
00:07:31
Speaker
the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Obama White House. He was also a founding committee member for the Resist March, the second largest LGBTQ plus march in history. And he is currently on the board of directors of the Los Angeles Bi Plus Task Force,
00:07:50
Speaker
Welcome, finally, to my God. Good God! I was exhausted just listening to that. Oh, and I trimmed it down a lot, too. Good God! Oh my God. What am I trying to prove to people? Yeah, seriously, you've done a lot. Do you want to take a break or something? You know, maybe I should, honestly. Given the current climate, you know, you got to self-care. This is a marathon, not a sprint, clearly.
00:08:19
Speaker
This is true. Well, I doubt you'll take a rest. Yeah, no, I have anxiety. Resting does not compute in my little brain.
00:08:32
Speaker
Well, it's nice to finally have you here. I've been following your work for a while. I have been circling this pod for so, like just standing by the phone, just waiting, I mean, and geeking out over so many legends you've already had. And now you get me. So I apologize in advance.
00:08:52
Speaker
And this is my LA season. I'm also having Dr. Mimi Huang on this season. So between you and her and probably some other people, we're moving to the West Coast this season. I mean, I just to be, yeah, even to be mentioned in the same breath as Dr. Mimi, much less now on the same board is such a, can I curse? It's a mind fuck. Yeah. It's a complete mind fuck just because like this is someone who like taught me when I was first,
00:09:21
Speaker
you know, getting into this space, but I guess we can get into that.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, we will. And we'll talk about your advocacy work. And Mimi has been around for so long. I mean, it's really amazing the stuff she's done before a lot of us were doing anything. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. So before we get into that and all your social media stuff, let's start with you, RJ, the person. How do you identify what pronouns do you use? Any spectrums you want to identify on? What labels do you like? Go for it.
00:09:53
Speaker
I Stick to by guy, you know, that's a and guy I know it tends to be a bit of a masculine identified You know a term although I think I think people of all identities could can have guy energy Pronouns he him his or sir if you're nasty and Yeah, no, I mean like
00:10:21
Speaker
Even though I identify very much as a cis man, I actually love that my forays into gender fuckery help redefine what it means to be masculine identified. I love that I hopefully have the opportunity to help define non-toxic masculinity and what that looks like.
00:10:46
Speaker
and how it's free to play in other people's playgrounds and not feel like that threatens or invalidates my identity in any way. Yeah, that's awesome. And it's kind of where I've fallen on it too. I kind of have toyed with this idea of how much does my maleness matter to me? I think I've come down where you are, which is I feel like a cis man and I'm comfortable there, but I like
00:11:13
Speaker
pushing the boundaries of what that means and what masculinity is. Yeah, no, no, it's great. And I think now, like, I mean, we're in a kind of overcorrective period where we still kind of see like masculinity as being something that's very oppressive and very, you know, toxic in a lot of ways. But, you know, hopefully, as we sort of, you know, advance the cause further and further,
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, like there'll be more, you know, more and more people, even straight identified men can see this as an opportunity to really, you know, expand what it means to be a quote unquote man. And it's funny because especially out here, you know, in cities like LA, like you do meet some non-toxic straight men and then, you know, you meet straight guys that don't flinch when you flirt with them. In fact, they'll flirt back and I don't care for that shit at all. Okay, wait.
00:12:06
Speaker
I want to talk about that, but I think my doorbell is ringing because my AC is out and they didn't tell me they were coming, but hang on. Can you hang on one second? No, let's do it.
RJ's Bi Identity Journey
00:12:27
Speaker
Leave it all in. Can you hear me? Oh my God.
00:12:35
Speaker
So I didn't leave all of it in, but I did leave some of it because it was kind of funny. And there was really no cutting around it in the end. Of course, after two days of not telling me when they were going to show up, the repairman showed up exactly when I was recording this interview. Oh, well, you also missed RJ faking an orgasm to see if I could still hear him while I was talking to the repairman. Maybe I'll post that on social media. Maybe not. We'll see. But eventually we did pick it back up somewhere around where we left off. Here it is.
00:13:06
Speaker
Anyway, where were we? We were talking about the straight guys. We can definitely move from that. Let's get back to you. Let's get back to your bi identity. When did you realize that about yourself or when did you first start noticing that aspect? Oh my gosh.
00:13:27
Speaker
I don't know, because that's always such a weird question because the technical answer was age 19 in college was the first time I was like, oh, that's me.
00:13:40
Speaker
It's not the first time I heard the word by or noticed that I had same-sex attraction, but it was the first time that someone had a conversation with me as like, oh, no, no, this is a thing and put to bed a lot of the common misconceptions. And that was kind of that first moment where it was just like, oh, that's me. That is me. That's a thing I'm allowed to have.
00:14:06
Speaker
you know, noticed my I mean, in elementary school, I had crushes on girls and boys like, like, you know, in retrospect, but but, you know, two things kind of really conspired to sort of have me try to keep that part of my identity, you know, suppressed. One was being raised in the church, the Catholic Church, which, you know,
00:14:29
Speaker
I guess to their, I don't know, I didn't get a lot of the fire and brimstone. I got what I call soft homophobia, which is, oh, you can't necessarily help if you have gay thoughts. If you act on those gay thoughts, God is pissed off and you're going to hell. So if you're same sex attracted, that's just your cross to bear and you're supposed to be celibate or you can choose which impulses to act on. And I'm like, I guess that's kind of right.
00:14:54
Speaker
And then the other being like growing up in the aftermath of childhood sexual assault and not really telling anybody and thinking that my same sex attraction was like something that was the result or like a sickness or a symptom of something you know of that experience that just you know I tried to sort of get rid of.
00:15:16
Speaker
And so between those two things, like, yeah, like it was kind of rough, especially, you know, in the teenage years, coming to terms with all of that. And then finally, and that was why it was so huge to meet someone who was just like, No, you're not broken. No, there's nothing wrong with you. Like, this is just how you are. Or this is not even you. She was just saying like, that was how she identified and told me about her experience. And then that was what clicked. I was like, Oh, boom, me. Yeah, that's so nice to have a friend like that who can kind of, you know,
00:15:46
Speaker
be very straightforward with you and just talk about it. I can't even remember the last time. Like, Maddie, if you're out there, I'm just like, we haven't really kept it, like, haven't seen her since college. But yeah, Maddie, if you're out there, thanks. Thanks for changing my life. Yeah, that is really nice because, like, I mean, I've had a couple of friends who since I've come out to them in my 30s, they have also come out to me as by, like, people I was friends with in high school or younger.
00:16:14
Speaker
And I don't blame any of them for not sharing this with me sooner, but I do kind of regret that none of us felt comfortable enough to talk about it with each other, even though there were a whole bunch of bi people at my high school, at my summer camp. Oh, 100%.
00:16:31
Speaker
And it speaks to the power of representation, you know, like, not just representation, but affirmative, you know, healthy representation is yeah, like, that's the second order effect is is more and more people have the capacity to be like, Oh, okay, this, this is a possibility. And therefore, like, I can accept this now for myself.
00:16:51
Speaker
Right, exactly. So you're 19 and you're in college, you realize this. And then what happens? Did floodgates open in terms of exploring it? And also did you come out? When did you start coming out?
00:17:06
Speaker
No, I mean, I question two different questions. Oh, yeah, I know. Well, I mean, it was definitely not something that I really explored into like, because I was 19, like about to turn 20. And then like 20 was where I kind of
00:17:24
Speaker
started giving myself room to maybe explore a bit. And even then I was just like, I don't, I don't see why this is relevant to anybody else. Like why I have to sit here and change because in my mind, I was still gonna like end up with a woman. And so it was just like, Oh, well, then why would I like be open with people and then have them like question my eventual marriage because like,
00:17:47
Speaker
And then I started dating a dude and we started dating at 20 and then by 21 and it was starting to get serious I was like, oh shit. I should probably tell people, which kind of ended up being a slight misstep on my part just because they sort of associated
00:18:08
Speaker
that epiphany with like what sort of made me buy or got or prompted it and it's like it wasn't it wasn't such a direct you know A to B sort of thing but I mean this was also like the first like the first guy ever really like did anything well was the first guy I dated so it was you know it was it was a catalyst but not the for coming out but not necessarily the realization of the exploration of it and
00:18:33
Speaker
right yeah that's it's interesting i i also had realized it at a certain point but still was mostly dating women and i just kind of thought why does anyone really need to know this i probably want to marry a woman this other part of me is like this little little thing that isn't that important but and i yeah i didn't have that catalyst to like kind of push me out there i just it took a few years
00:18:58
Speaker
I'd say the other part though was I didn't even tell people like I'm bi or I'm gay or anything I just said like hi I'm dating a dude and that was it and sort of just sort of let them gather their own conclusion from there which is what prompted the video the now the now famous video where like I kind of went on a rant
00:19:23
Speaker
Basically, because I had, you know, there by that point, you know, I was doing YouTube with my then partner and, you know, had people just sort of constantly being like, you're gay, why don't you just say you're gay? Why do you keep saying whatever? And then that was, you know, I made I made that video that now, you know, had I don't I haven't even checked with the view count on it, but it was the shot heard around the world.
00:19:47
Speaker
What video tell us about it? It was the set by our sexuality setting the record straight. I did air quotes for those of you listening. Yeah. And it was like that was and I had been doing we've been doing I've been doing YouTube for years already at that point. So it wasn't even like I kind of just focused on like general LGBT, which in parentheses was basically just gay community like activism for a while. And to me, I didn't really
00:20:15
Speaker
like see a difference or a point in singling myself out as bi just because it didn't sort of seem relevant and then it wasn't until i made that video with the intention of i'm gonna talk about it once so i don't have to talk about it again oh
00:20:30
Speaker
Oh, the irony. Oh, the irony. Because then it's everywhere. It's on HuffPo. It's on Upworthy. And there's this flood where everybody's like, okay, now do more stuff. And I'm like, eh. And so, especially on YouTube, like on the Not Adam channel, what I loved about that,
00:20:53
Speaker
channel and those videos was that it was very much documenting my own sort of discovery of by specific community and activism and how even someone who had, you know, sort of privately identified as such for years, oh my god, like there was this like,
00:21:10
Speaker
I and that's where I first, you know, started getting in touch with people from a buy net and from the by task force and having people literally sit me down and giving me like, you know, slide presentations on Hey, like, we have larger health disparities and mental health disparities than even gay people. And it was just such a huge, like, I
00:21:33
Speaker
It was like a mind-blown for like over the course of like almost an entire year as I just kept learning more and more and more and how like we've been erased from history and we like like there's there was just this treasure trove that I had just stumbled upon kind of forest. I always say I have forest gump my way through the beginning of this because I was just right place right time. Boom. It just sort of converged around me and
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, the great thing about social media is I was able to share that process and have it benefit more than just me.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually kind of what I wanted to ask you about because you were doing this stuff on YouTube a little bit before the bigger explosion of buying stuff on the internet that's really happened in the last five years, it seems. But you were doing it about 10 years ago and a lot in that window where there wasn't much.
Bi Identity and Social Media
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's weird. No, no, no, it's fine. No, it's wild. It's absolutely wild, where even now, recently, I went to VidCon again for the first time in quite some time. And I went to an LGBT creators meetup thinking that just like VidCons in the past, I'd be the token B. And then all of a sudden,
00:22:58
Speaker
Most of the people there were like bi and pan identified, which I was just like, I was so choked up because I was just like, oh my God, like, I mean, did I, I definitely didn't call it, but I'm like, I'm sure I at least helped bring this to fruition. And I mean, I do like still to this day have people being like, I watched you when I was a teenager. And I'm like, thanks, I feel old, but also still thank you very much.
00:23:23
Speaker
Well, and it's also interesting because it's almost the opposite of what is happening with me in this podcast, which was I came out, I wasn't doing social media like this. I wanted to find a podcast about bi men and couldn't. So I was like, okay, let's do that and fill that space. Whereas you were already doing all this stuff and the bi awareness came in almost
00:23:47
Speaker
because of that, it sounds like. So I guess I'm curious, how do you see your bisexuality fitting into all this work you're doing? Is it a core component of it? Or do you see yourself as a content creator for all sorts of things? And the bi thing was a period of time or a certain topic that isn't everything.
00:24:12
Speaker
I mean, bisexuality is central to me and so therefore it is central to the work that I do. But kind of like you sort of listed off at the beginning, I don't believe in trying to sort of pigeonhole oneself to
00:24:29
Speaker
a singular cause like that's all and that's always been I mean I found the Audre Lorde quote about you know we don't leave we don't leave single issue lives like so early on in college and that was just that was just such a that hit me at the right time at such an impressionable age where
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, even before being sort of out and proud and by, the goal was to see how many different fronts can I try to fight on in terms of making the world better. And then to have this whole new community available and
00:25:07
Speaker
not only available to me, but then also in such need in terms of visibility, in terms of funding, and all that. It was like, I was primed and ready, but then,
00:25:19
Speaker
I found something that was in many ways life changing because it was personally enriching. It was professionally enriching. It was the first time I really found something that was really unique to me because I was also one half of a two person brand. And this was one of the things that I could own as being distinctly mine.
00:25:45
Speaker
and start to forge an identity that was my own. It's both in a lot of ways. As is often the answer with bisexual people. I often ask binary questions and I know that the answer will be somewhere in between.
00:26:07
Speaker
Right, right. You also can't see how weird I'm sitting in this chair right now. Anyways. I actually, it reminds me of something in one of your videos. I just binged a bunch of your videos yesterday and today, but about this like, this binary of like night and day and how that is sort of like a parallel to bisexuality and gay and straight. And it's like, people
00:26:31
Speaker
often look at it as like it's either nighttime or it's daytime instead of bothering to learn like how to tell time and what time it is and actually there's a lot of things that matter beyond just night and day. I thought that was kind of an interesting one I hadn't heard before.
00:26:47
Speaker
And that was the first one, that was the first, I believe it, yeah, it was that first video. And yeah, I like it, and that was, well, and I loved that comparison in particular because it's like, oh, if you stay in that frame of mind, you can't be on time to anything. Granted, queer people are never on time to anything, but that's a whole different discussion.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yes, yeah, and you just look at things in these very big broad categories which which eliminate the complexity of of people's actual personality and experience. Right, right. And and I think that was luckily it was it was even it was early on that I was able to sort of
00:27:27
Speaker
Come to the personal epiphany and then also share that like yeah, oh people who anytime you're met with resistance It's because this person values their small-minded simplistic view of the world more than they value your well-being And and that we're actually learning about you, right, you know, right and that's still I mean it, you know rains true across a
00:27:51
Speaker
you know, all the different, you know, you know, fields where I where I've tried to do work. And yeah, like that, that was luckily, I mean, that was one of the few epiphanies I was able to kind of have on my own.
00:28:08
Speaker
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00:28:31
Speaker
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00:28:46
Speaker
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00:29:07
Speaker
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00:30:00
Speaker
has your bi identity and what bisexuality means to you, has it changed over time from when you made that video or when you came out in college to now? Is it the same or has it changed? Oh, definitely. It's definitely evolved as my understanding of gender has evolved. I mean,
00:30:22
Speaker
Traditionally, even in the early to mid-aughts when I was making a lot of my stuff, people's view of gender was still pretty binary, even though we definitely recognized the trans people.
00:30:41
Speaker
And it was funny because even in the in the early days where they're like bi people are transphobic It's like most trans people I know still identify as like one or the other so but yeah, like as as my understanding of gender has has, you know deepened and evolved like yeah, my my my understand my I the way I sit in that identity as as You know
00:31:05
Speaker
Evolved slightly just because you know that I've had many a conversation with myself. I'm just like am I paying or am I by and and it was Luckily like I I feel very very comfortable being like okay. Yeah, I'm attracted to Pretty much any gender, but the attraction doesn't always cut the same in every direction So I'm comfortable saying I'm by even though still like yeah like like if you're hot you're hot That's that's it
00:31:32
Speaker
Um, and, and also like I, I appreciate the term by as a legacy term. Like that was the, that's the other way that it's really evolved is, is that, you know, this is the same identity that like Brenda Howard had and Steven Donaldson had and Sylvia Rivera had, you know, like I am.
00:31:52
Speaker
hopefully carrying, maybe not the same torch, but I'm on the same relay team as these incredible luminaries throughout history. And so yeah, making it a point that's still used by has just really, I see it as equally a heritage term as well as a sexual identity.
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I love being connected in some way to the history of the bi movement because I do think it's sort of the tip of the spear of the LGBT rights movement. And even if the word itself is linguistically misinterpreted sometimes, I still think it's worth it to identify that way because of the really important history of it.
00:32:38
Speaker
But also as an English major like language evolves through usage. Well yeah, like that too. I don't agree with the misinterpretations of it. Oh sure, yeah. But it gets frustrating to constantly deal with that.
00:32:55
Speaker
And luckily, I mean, luckily, like plenty of thinkers even well before us have already sort of parsed that, that, you know, that definition and just been like, Okay, you need here's your bye. Same gender, different genders, the attraction moves two ways. There's your bye. Boom. Yep.
00:33:15
Speaker
When in doubt, always go back to Robin Oak's definition, which has been around for decades. Although then, yeah, and then people are like, well, then what's the difference between bi and pan? And then this is when I really nerd out. I'm like, well, it's like the relationship between rectangles and squares. All squares are technically rectangles, but because they fulfill certain extra criteria, we give them a special name.
00:33:36
Speaker
I like that. That's a good one. Yeah. You have to be a bit of a math nerd to be able to really wrap your head around that one. Because half the time people are like, wait, they get hung up on the shape part. They're like, wait, what? I'm like, okay, wait, I can't make up for your teacher's failure. I'm sorry. I love it.
00:33:57
Speaker
Getting back to your social media stuff and your content creation, I guess a similar question. I'm curious about the evolution of it. How did you get started with it? You were part of a team. And then how did it evolve from there? And how did your bisexuality come in or out of it as you grew in popularity? I mean, it started
00:34:25
Speaker
because I'd started dating a YouTuber. I was in college for media production and for creative writing, and here was someone who introduced an entirely different form of media and a platform that was
00:34:41
Speaker
and completely unlike anything that I was learning about or exploring. So it just started off as kind of a creative outlet. And then, yeah, that two-person brand just took off. And then, yeah, like, it really just began as a creative outlet, a place to just sort of mess around and explore. But then as it became a job, like,
00:35:10
Speaker
There there was there was definitely a I mean you had to keep trying to find different ways to feed the beast and and and you know The the fact that I had this new cause to take up definitely definitely helped a lot in terms of finding Because that's what you always gonna want to try to do when you're on social media is just like find your find your niche and cater to those people so Yeah, I mean
00:35:37
Speaker
social media is always a dialogue. Social is the operative word. So it's it's always a collaborative process between you and your audience. And so yeah, the fact that there was such a positive response to it was just more of a sign that this was something that I had to keep digging at and keep exploring. And and yeah, luckily, like,
00:36:01
Speaker
being a queer on the internet kind of automatically like the expectation is automatically that you're going to take some sort of political stance just because like your very existence is political. And so just by existing out in public is, you know, seen by many as an act of rebellion. And so from there,
00:36:22
Speaker
especially in the attention economy, it's like the incentive is definitely not to sugarcoat it. It's to lean in and to dig your heels in and to push it and to be more vocal and to be more
00:36:36
Speaker
Passionate and luckily I mean that that was never a That was never a challenge either finding the passion and the drive to keep keep it up because I knew that this was more than The the view counts this was more than the money because let's be honest if you want to make money on social media find another field like this is as it as it as a creator like
00:37:03
Speaker
this is not something to do, like it is far too much work for you to not have something else driving you.
Curated Identities and Social Media
00:37:11
Speaker
So yeah, there's there's got to be something else driving you. And then luckily, yeah, like the fact that I was already getting messages from of how much that work meant to kids, it was just like, oh, no, this is the like, this is the the why.
00:37:28
Speaker
Right. Is it hard for you to put yourself out there and be so vulnerable and exposed, sometimes literally exposed? Or is that something that's always been comfortable for you? Or did you have to push yourself? Not anymore. And I mean, there is
00:37:50
Speaker
There it's an art form, I will say, like, because there is definitely the the there is actual vulnerability, and then there's this sort of performance of vulnerability. And a lot of times, you know, I do try to, you know, have the two intersect as much as possible. That being said, like, there are, there are trade offs, they're definitely trade offs. So, you know, being vocal about
00:38:17
Speaker
you know, you know, being a sexual assault survivor, being an intimate partner violence survivor, like, like all of that was that was that was difficult, you know, in a lot of ways, but but luckily, every time I felt kind of freaked out, you know, by that sort of vulnerability, like the the outpouring, the the, the subsequent outpouring has definitely, you know, been so supportive that it's more than
00:38:44
Speaker
I in my mind like it's justified the the short term stress that being said like sharing everything is also a trap. You know, especially when you are the the brand.
00:39:00
Speaker
There it you know, it's very easy for it to quite literally take over every facet in your life because there is no boundary between your personal life and your professional life and It will wreak havoc on your mental health because as much you know, first of all again being by and a person of color like I
00:39:20
Speaker
Hey, I already have increased risk of all these mental health issues. Also like maybe it runs rampant in my family anyways. But then, but even then when you're trying to combat it and you're trying to tell yourself like, hey, my worth isn't defined by how I'm perceived by others.
00:39:39
Speaker
except kind of is when you're on social media. And there is such a thing as being too honest on social media. And you'll know pretty quickly when you share something and people are just sort of like, oh, get back to the fun stuff. People have enough problems of their own, so they don't necessarily have the space to sort of take on yours, especially if they can't relate to it.
00:40:09
Speaker
it's a perpetual tightrope walk and I feel like now because I've been doing it for damn near 15 years like that it's a tightrope that gets easier to walk. I also do feel like that that there's a part of my brain that that's just
00:40:28
Speaker
like mush, the part that's restrained and maybe be like, hey, maybe don't share personal stuff. That gland is burnt out. That's just gone. Social media has forever broken my brain in that regard. Yeah. But I am what I am and it's all that I am and you can't. Yeah.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, and in terms of the physical exposure, that's a direct response to what gets traffic on social media. To this day, people will be like, why are you such a thirst trapper? And I'm like, look at the numbers. But yeah, luckily, with therapy and with a lot of hard work on my mental health, there are certain boundaries I will not cross.
00:41:19
Speaker
It's one of the reasons I would never do OnlyFans, just because I don't think my mental health can handle marketing that very personal, intimate part of my life, especially as a sexual assault and a rape survivor. I don't, monetizing that part of my life, regardless of the short-term benefits, I know we'll wreak havoc on my mental health just like the daily vlogs eventually did.
00:41:46
Speaker
You do have to sort of put up boundaries based off of your own health.
00:41:52
Speaker
Yeah. That does seem important to find those boundaries and find what they are for whoever, you know, each person. Because like, it does seem that in our lives, there's all these different inputs and experiences we have. But on social media, like it always, no matter what form you're working in, it gets reduced to some number. And that's how people are reacting to it all boils down to some number of how many watched, how many listened, how many liked, how many commented,
00:42:21
Speaker
And if what you're putting out there is so close to you and who you are and your mental health, I know from experience less experience than you, but some is that it's pretty hard not to associate that number with that thing about you. And so if you have some distance from it, it gets a little bit easier to just be like,
00:42:45
Speaker
Okay people respond how they respond it's just a number it doesn't mean something about who i am as a person yeah and i'm and thank god for me now working at like brainchild producing for other people because i'm able to. Create that distance right where i'm like you know i'll still i still for my you know.
00:43:05
Speaker
heart and soul into into the show but at the end of the day like it exists as its own thing and and it's why like I just I make it a point to try not to care that much about my personal socials anymore especially just because then it also takes the joy out of it yeah and at the end of the day like joy and passion are what people connect with so that's another reason not to to let the numbers really sort of drive you like yeah there there are great
00:43:34
Speaker
litmus test for the creative choices that you make, but you can't let it drive what you do because then everything just becomes redundant and it just becomes this black hole of inspiration that you're doing it not because you want to, but because you feel like other people want it.
00:43:56
Speaker
Right. Yes, that. And also because so much of that is actually controlled by an algorithm or randomness. That does not care about you. Right. Or like one random person that shared something as a fluke and that, you know, it doesn't actually necessarily correlate to what is resonating the most with the people you're trying to talk to. So it can be, you know, I've looked at, I just got on TikTok, you know, I'll probably be off it soon because it is like,
00:44:25
Speaker
It's a lot of fucking work to think of this shit. But I look at some people and it's like some of their TikToks have millions of views and I'm like, why? And then other ones have very few views and I like them a lot more and I connect with them.
00:44:42
Speaker
there's so much randomness 100% and there's so many external factors behind that that would fill their own pod in terms of like you know not every view is created equal not every follow is created equal but that's that's that's a whole can of worms yeah is you know i still to this day have meeting upon meeting that are you know hour and a half long breaking that kind of shit down
00:45:14
Speaker
As I saw online, you've done a whole talk about this topic, but I'm curious to ask it for you here. How does social media shape how we see ourselves? Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh my God, I love doing this talk, especially at colleges.
00:45:32
Speaker
Although it's now with a new, yeah, it needs to be sort of updated a little bit. But yeah, it's changing quickly. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a constantly evolving space. But you think about how we define ourselves. We think of identity as kind of almost a light bulb. It's something that we illuminate and radiate out into the world. But if you look at the way that people define themselves, it's almost always based on criteria that shape how the world
00:46:02
Speaker
like interacts with you. And so basically, like your identity is not created, it's curated. And so now it basically just enables you to, you know, more deliberately, like you have obviously more options at your disposal. So you can be a lot more deliberate in your sort of curation of your identity. But then again, it's also very performative.
00:46:26
Speaker
Everybody is a brand now, or anybody with any sort of public facing online persona basically is a brand at this point. And, you know, in that talk, we get into a lot of like the implications of that the fact that right now this self curation is
00:46:44
Speaker
especially when it comes to young people, they're defining their worth based off of these metrics and comparing themselves and their lives with what they see from others, which is also very curated, polished, photoshopped, all that sort of stuff.
00:47:07
Speaker
And it is shaped according to the priorities and sometimes even the whims of social platforms where their goal is to make money. And there's, of course, the old adage of if you're not paying for the product, you are the product. So that, yeah. Short answer is, yeah. Social media has kind of now made everything an identity or a potential identity of sorts.
00:47:37
Speaker
And usually it was down to like the same, you know, five criteria where people would define themselves based on what, like gender, occupation, relationships, shit, it's been a while. But it was, it's like, basically, I do it at the beginning of the talk where it's like, I have them fill in the blank, I am a blank. You can't say person, you can't say human. So what do you use to fill that blank? And you usually say like, okay, a gender word, I'm a man, I'm a woman, whatever.
00:48:04
Speaker
Do you say anything based on race and ethnicity? I am black, I am white, I am Hispanic, whatever. Do you say an occupation? Do you say something about your sexuality? Do you say a relationship? I'm a mother, I'm a father, I'm a brother, I'm a sister, whatever. And it's like within five criteria, if not all of the crowd is kind of covered, even though you can
00:48:32
Speaker
more or less to use anything to define yourself. So why is it that? And now now more and more with social media, it's like, okay, no, I am a Beyonce stan. I am a, you know, I'm a
00:48:47
Speaker
I'm a nose picker. I'm an unapologetic nose picker. I don't give a fuck about your judgment. I have sinus issues. I'm a harmonizer. When I sing along with a song, I want to harmonize with the singer. There's so many different options now because all I have to do is shoot it out into the world and next thing I know, people from around the world could be like, oh my god, me too, me too, me too, me too, me too.
Queer Visibility and Marginalized Creators
00:49:11
Speaker
Do you think that's a good, helpful thing, that these weird, quirky things about you can now be actually the things that people most want to share? Yes and no. Technology, of course, always innovates faster than our ability to really comprehend it and the implications of it. But yeah, in so many ways, this does
00:49:37
Speaker
help us find community. I know for me, when I'm going to college in the middle of North Florida in Tallahassee, and there's not really that much of a robust queer community, I go online and I shoot that out into the ether. And next thing I know, there's tens, hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people that are just like, oh, me too, me too, me too. So that's good.
00:50:04
Speaker
you can also do that with if you're a white supremacist or a neo-nazi. So it cuts both ways. Yeah, that makes sense if it's promoting something positive. Do you think in general that social media, this landscape is
00:50:26
Speaker
I mean, this is a similar question, but just even more broadly, like is social media helping the queer community? Where do you see that? And where do you see social media falling short or actually being problematic for queer people?
00:50:42
Speaker
Oh, well, I mean, let's talk about how queer creators, especially sex-positive queer creators are over policed, over demonetized, harassed, de-platformed at substantially higher rates and how these platforms continue to gaslight us and be like, we're not biased, we have algorithms. And it's like, that doesn't,
00:51:12
Speaker
Or they can try to be tokenistic about maybe one or two exceptions to the rule, but then it's like, no. Especially ever since platforms like Instagram have tried to overcorrect with moderation and now
00:51:30
Speaker
It's not just enough to violate the community guidelines to be deplatformed now, you know, ever since, what was it, 2019, I want to say they've been cracking down on, quote unquote, borderline content, which is another reason why you see a lot of queer creators being deplatformed, especially because... Why? What's borderline?
00:51:50
Speaker
Borderline is basically like their version of like, it doesn't technically violate the community guidelines, but it's like on the board. Like it deliberately toes the line. And I mean, there are like troll groups out there that will even like write bots to mass report people and try to get them deplatform. And granted, it's not just a problem faced by queer people, but people across all sorts of marginalized identity are disproportionately affected by this.
00:52:20
Speaker
That being said, I do think the long-term arc of social media is a net positive for
00:52:30
Speaker
queer people and especially queer communities that suffer from this visibility crisis, I don't consider it an accident that the first real generation to grow up with social media is now all the more open-minded with regard to sexual and gender identity. People can try to argue that as a net positive or a net negative, but I don't
Episode Wrap-up and Thanks
00:52:58
Speaker
consider it an accident. And I personally think it is
00:53:00
Speaker
A positive that it has been this huge tool that has you know completely transformed our understanding of sexuality and gender yeah.
00:53:09
Speaker
Like all things though, there's so many devils in the details. Yeah, it's like because we live in this heteronormative society and queerness is very hidden, it for so long was probably so much harder to find other people like you and to feel normal. And so the internet and social media
00:53:31
Speaker
certainly helps with that and has great effects. But it is interesting what you're saying about the platforms themselves. They're there to make money. They're not there to spread awareness. They're not there to serve the creators necessarily only as the creators serve them making money. So the devil's in the details, right? Yeah, that makes sense.
00:53:55
Speaker
Right, which hopefully as web three advances, you know, and creators own their assets, then that, you know, can hopefully give more power back to creators and community. Because, you know, let's say that first buy video I made, you know, was minted as an NFT like that, that is a piece of content that doesn't just have value to me, it has, you know, value to, you know, a bunch of other other people and hopefully that
00:54:20
Speaker
That sort of advancement allows, you know, not just creators to be better at, you know, monetizing their work and getting compensated for their efforts, but, you know, more opportunities also for, I think, of like collective ownership of assets and for communities to sort of come together and own projects from their inception. But that's, again, could be its own pod.
00:54:46
Speaker
That's all for the first half of my interview with RJ Aguilar. Stay tuned for the next episode with the second half of our interview. You won't want to miss it. And thanks for listening to Two Bagons.
00:54:58
Speaker
2 by Guys is produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman, our music is by Ross Vincer, we are supported by the Gotham, and we are part of the Zencaster Creator Network. Use promo code 2 by Guys to get 30% off your first three months of Zencaster. Thanks for listening to 2 by Guys.