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16. How to Know if You're Done: Tears, Fears, & Hard Truths, with Rachel Quigley
189 Plays1 year ago
Today, we talk tears, fears, and hard truths. SO much of the growth in motherhood is about getting comfortable being uncomfortable, being unsure, and sometimes being downright ๐๐จ๐ง๐๐ฎ๐ฌ๐๐ ๐๐ with no answers in sight.
Rachel Quigley shares difficulties in her postpartum experience, how her partner advocated for her, where she has found support, and how she is now navigating the very difficult question "do I want to have another baby?"
The emotional vulnerability in this episode is ๐ฅ (so much so that both @rachelscouch & @rachelmquigley were sweating by the end of it ๐ฆ
โจMama, we hope this episode helps YOU feel less alone in whatever unknowns you are facing, and more empowered to ๐ฉ๐ซ๐ข๐จ๐ซ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐ณ๐ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ๐ซ ๐จ๐ฐ๐ง ๐ญ๐ซ๐ฎ๐ ๐ง๐๐๐๐ฌ, ๐๐๐ฌ๐ข๐ซ๐๐ฌ, ๐๐ง๐ ๐ฆ๐๐ง๐ญ๐๐ฅ ๐ก๐๐๐ฅ๐ญ๐ก ๐ข๐ง ๐ญ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐ข๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง๐ฌ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ ๐ฆ๐๐ค๐ ๐๐จ๐ซ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ๐ซ ๐๐๐ฆ๐ข๐ฅ๐ฒ.
xoxo + PERMISSION TO DITCH BOUNCE-BACK CULTURE ,
Dr. Jen and Rachel
Rachel Quigley Residential (for all of your South Orange County, CA home buying and selling needs)
Get Help - Postpartum Support International
On Deciding Whether to Have Another
Free Guide to Addressing Resentment in Your Relationship After Baby
The Liz Moody Podcast: How to know if you should have Kid(s) + Debunking Myths about Parenthood
You can learn more about Rachel's California-based group therapy practice and how you can work with her at www.racheldaggettlmft.com or on instagram @rachelscouch ---------------
You can find and follow us @bloomafterbaby on instagram so that we can connect with you and reach more new moms and dads who need to know that they are not alone!
*Please note that this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for seeking individualized care from a mental health or medical professional"
Learn more about us and access all of our courses, coaching services, and free resources at bloomafterbaby.com
Pregnancy tips Postpartum wellness Prenatal care New motherhood Postpartum recovery Maternal health Pregnancy journey Expectant mothers Postpartum support Motherhood experience Parenting advice Family dynamics Parenting tips Raising children Family well-being Parenting challenges Family relationships Parenting insights Mental health for mothers Emotional well-being Coping with motherhood Maternal mental health Self-care for moms Stress management Emotional resilience Conversations with experts Interviews with mothers Real-life parenting stories Expert advice for moms Support for new mothers Insights on motherhood Informative parenting discussions Working moms Health at Every Size
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Transcript
Introduction to Bloom After Baby
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in. Let's get to it.
Meeting Rachel Quigley: The Importance of Postpartum Support
00:00:35
Speaker
Today, I am sitting down with a very, very good friend of mine whose name also happens to be Rachel, Rachel Quigley. And in this conversation, we talk about how we met, which is a really cool story that we both just love to share and I think is really valuable for new moms to hear.
00:00:55
Speaker
We speak to the importance of mommy and me groups and postpartum support groups.
Rachel Quigley's Postpartum Journey
00:01:01
Speaker
We talk a little bit, or Rachel shares a bit about her mental health journey in postpartum and she shares a really, really amazing story about something her husband did for her when she was struggling with her mental health in postpartum and how he really showed up for her and advocated for her. Really awesome story. I can't wait for you guys to hear.
00:01:24
Speaker
And let me just talk a little bit about a predicament that Rachel is currently in, which is whether or not to have a second baby. And she really shares really vulnerably. Rachel was really brave and courageous to share this part of her journey with us, with me, and with you guys, our
Deciding on a Second Child: A Personal Dilemma
00:01:45
Speaker
listeners. And she really wanted to do it because
00:01:49
Speaker
Rachel really wants to help other moms who maybe are in that decision making process of do I have another, whether you already have one or two or however many kids or maybe you're just trying to decide if you should or want to have kids at all with your partner. And she talks you through how she's going about making that decision, some of the conversations she's having with
00:02:13
Speaker
her husband, John, about the decision. And she shares a couple of resources that have been helpful for her in making that decision.
Family Planning: Personal Needs and Relationship Health
00:02:21
Speaker
One thing I really want to highlight that I hope you mamas can take away from this conversation is that it is okay to put your needs first at times when you're a mother and that it's actually incredibly healthy, both for you and your children, for you to take into consideration
00:02:43
Speaker
the health of your marriage, the health of your relationship with your partner, and the health of you in your decisions that you make about your family and about growing your family and parenting decisions. Again, I really admire how John and Rachel are going about this. And so I was really excited to share this and I'm so grateful to you, Rach, for your courage and sharing this with everybody. And also with working at being comfortable in the unknown.
Embracing Uncertainty in Motherhood
00:03:09
Speaker
That's a
00:03:10
Speaker
really big thing that Jen and I are passionate about as well is teaching other moms that you aren't always going to have the answer. And we may not always have the answer as well. I certainly don't, a lot of times don't have the answers for my clients that I work with in therapy. And a lot of our work is kind of just sitting in that and being okay in the unknown and in the gray area and just getting comfortable being uncomfortable. So can't wait to share this conversation with
The Power of Mommy and Me Classes
00:03:38
Speaker
you. Thank you guys so much for listening.
00:03:40
Speaker
and let us know if you have any questions and I've got everything in the show notes if you want to reach out to Rachel or check out her her new business and yeah.
00:03:56
Speaker
Hey, Rach. Hey, Rach. Thank you. Truly thank you for doing this with me. For sure. It's a lot. So for our listeners, I'm sitting here with Rachel number two, or one, depending how you look at it, but Rachel is a very, very dear friend and very, very important person in my life and in my journey of motherhood. And so I kind of want to set the stage
00:04:26
Speaker
so that all of you who are listening know what you can gain from this conversation and from this connection that Rachel and I have. And so I want to set the stage a little bit for...
00:04:36
Speaker
who Rachel is and how we met and our story a little bit. And so I'm, I'm thinking about, well, first I want to say you are, you're, you're one of those friends that you feel like you've known forever. And like maybe in a past life we were connected or something, even though I've only known you for not even four years now because our, I'm going to start crying.
Struggles and Support in Early Motherhood
00:05:00
Speaker
Nora just turned four, reads about your report. And I'm thinking back to,
00:05:06
Speaker
Like probably the most raw and vulnerable time of my life when I started a mommy and me class, when Reed was probably like what, four weeks old. And first time mom, probably one of the very few times I drove with him in a car yet. And other than taking him to the pediatrician, I'm remembering just like going up the stairs with his,
00:05:32
Speaker
car seat and just shaking, right? Like what am I doing? I'm so nervous for this group. Why did I do this? And sitting in a circle with women with all their little babies and just feeling so surreal and so out of place, but also so
00:05:51
Speaker
felt like I really belong there at the same time, yet so uncomfortable with my skin and just so unsure, right? When you're like a first-time mom with a newborn. And any noise that they make is like, oh my God, yeah. My child is crying. Everybody's going to think I'm a terrible mom. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember the group leader being like, babies cry. Yeah. Don't apologize when they cry. But I remember watching all of us because it gave me reassurance, seeing other people being nervous too.
00:06:20
Speaker
like whenever the baby would start crying it would be like we had this like reflex to like want to yeah like a physical reaction to them correctly so it looked like we were doing it right we didn't know what the hell we were doing no no no idea no idea and and i remember specifically too reid was really gassy and uncomfortable and colicky at that stage and so i i was so insecure and i bet every other mom felt the same way yeah but i remember uh
00:06:50
Speaker
you were like a few people down from me and then, and I think I maybe came in late. So I heard like the tail end of your story, but I heard that your name was Rachel and that your husband's name was John and that your baby was born like three weeks of the day before, before Reed and that you had a white fluffy dog. And I was like, wait, what is happening?
00:07:15
Speaker
It's not pretty crazy. So for context, my name is Rachel. Obviously my husband is Sean and I have a white, fluffy dog. And yeah, it was just crazy. And I obviously the first thing I thought was like,
00:07:27
Speaker
She's so beautiful and her hair is so lovely. No, it's true. I know, but I'm just thinking back to what I looked like at that time. Yeah. So I just remember that first meeting and then COVID happened like two weeks later.
Friendship and Support During the Pandemic
00:07:43
Speaker
So I think we maybe got to take advantage of like two total in-person groups for mommy and me.
00:07:50
Speaker
and it continued on virtually luckily and our leader did a great job really supporting us because COVID was such a weird time obviously and scary for everybody but having a newborn it was even more unsettling and but I was in therapy at the time and my and I was telling my therapist about you because she was really encouraging me to reach out to other moms and and I was like well it's like I'm good right I've had many
00:08:15
Speaker
close friends paved the way for me and I knew I could ask them, you know, but they were in different stages. All their babies at the time, her kids were a little bit older and she was like, no, there's something really important about having a mom that you can turn to and text them all the night that's in the same stages. Yeah.
00:08:33
Speaker
And I was like, well, I really like this right now. And I feel like we would be friends and I want to ask her to be my friend, but like I feel really weird and now it's all virtual. So anyway, long story short, she encouraged me to reach out to you and ask you on a Zoom date. I remember it very, very vividly. Yeah.
00:08:54
Speaker
And we did it. I thought it was so nice. Oh my gosh, she's she's so ballsy to do that. Like that's so cool. I love that. You know, because I obviously was looking for friends too. And I was kind of the opposite of you where I didn't have as many friends who had kids. I think I had one at the time who had a baby like three months prior to me. And so I was like really
00:09:17
Speaker
searching for someone, searching for my Rachel.
Humor and Connection in Friendship
00:09:21
Speaker
It's funny now because thinking about when I was growing up, I had an imaginary friend named Rachel. And so I would look in the mirror and
00:09:33
Speaker
talk to this girl named Rachel. And so then I made this friend named Rachel and my family joked because it was COVID and nobody can meet each other that, are you sure you have a friend named Rachel? I swear she's real. I promise. Yeah. And then it took me like a couple of years into our friendship to meet your family.
00:09:52
Speaker
for COVID and then people getting sick or for whatever reason not being able to attend events. But that is so funny to me. I know it is pretty good. So I do exist. Boji. So yeah, so just just such a beautiful story. And I feel like we like trauma bonded a little totally because we both really struggle postpartum.
00:10:16
Speaker
And I felt like you were somebody I could like be totally brutally honest with. And I could text like, I'm not enjoying this.
Postpartum Loneliness and Partner Support
00:10:24
Speaker
Or why did I do this? Or I remember if we went out to dinner one time, like when the babies were like a little bit older.
00:10:32
Speaker
we just sat and bitched about how horrible pregnancy was and I had had a lot of friends who loved being pregnant and so it just felt so normalizing for me to not like just be loving every minute. Yeah totally. So all that to say you know Jen and I with Bloom After Baby something we really want to
00:10:56
Speaker
offer people is ultimately knowing that you're not alone and if you are
00:11:04
Speaker
tough place in pregnancy or postpartum or motherhood and whatever phase, there's nothing wrong with you. And you, Rachel really helped me come to terms with that because going into motherhood, I thought maybe you felt this way too. It's all going to come naturally. Yes. Yes. It's all just going to fall into place because people told me that. And even providers told me that, right? Oh, he's latching in the hospital. So you're good. Yeah. And then when things weren't good, when we got home with nursing,
00:11:33
Speaker
I felt like I was flawed. I was doing something right. I want to talk a little bit more about postpartum and what your experience was like. You also struggled with depression and anxiety historically. And then maybe I was surprised by how much postpartum made all that so much worse for
Challenges of Postpartum Mental Health
00:11:49
Speaker
me. I know you struggled too. So will you share a little bit about what your experience was postpartum? Yeah. So postpartum for me was a crazy
00:12:00
Speaker
like smack in the face that I did not expect. I knew everybody told me and everybody says it, it's going to be so hard. This is the hardest thing you're going to do. And I was like, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. But it's like one of those things that literally just have never experienced it before. And there's nothing, and I truly feel like you can be prepared, but there's nothing that really fully prepares you. And
00:12:25
Speaker
I just remember being like, not confused, but very, Oh my God, this is forever. Like, this isn't gonna stop. This is now my responsibility forever. And I'm never gonna get a break. And I think what the craziest part for me was, is your
00:12:41
Speaker
safe space your home has now become the biggest shift and I didn't feel like I had a safe place anymore or a place to relax or a place that I could go and unwind because the baby was constantly there and I had had a c-section too and so I was also in a lot of pain and I was on pain medication and I remember just like
00:13:02
Speaker
trying to manage the time. I remember waking up at like 3 a.m. and having to write down what time I needed to take my next pill, what time I should be feeding the baby next, what time the baby had pooped or Nora had fed or whatever. And I just remember being so overwhelmed by it all. And yeah, it was funny because
00:13:23
Speaker
I was even talking to Julie about this, my cousin, and she was like, I just remember you during that period. And you had said to me, I just feel so alone. Like, I just feel like no one. I don't know, like just so alone. But so I had a really, really hard time with it.
A Partnerโs Role in Mental Health Advocacy
00:13:38
Speaker
And there was nothing I could I couldn't really snap myself out of it. And so
00:13:43
Speaker
When we had gone to one of our checkups, my husband John had came with me or John came with me and we were getting Nora checked actually. And we had taken her for like a well baby visit. And the doctor was, you know, baby looked great. Everything's good. The doctor said, how's mom? How are you doing mom? And I said, I'm fine. And then John said, no, she's not. She's not okay. She's really struggling. And I think we can get her, we should get her some help.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, I know. And I just remember sobbing and the doctor like hugged me and was like, this is really hard. It's okay. It's okay. We're going to get you some help. I know it was, and that was like the moment I was like, Oh my God, I'm, I feel like I'm going to cry. It was like, Oh my God, this is really hard. It's okay for me to say that this is really hard because I thought I was like the crazy one for thinking that I can't handle this. What?
00:14:38
Speaker
did I just do. So I just appreciated John for doing that for me so much because I don't know that I would have ever said it, you know? Had you guys talked before the appointment about it? No, he knew that I was struggling. Like he knew that I was, and I think I had just been like,
00:14:55
Speaker
had like, I would just be crying. I remember collapsing on the stairs one day and just like, just like falling and crying on the stairs and being like, I hate the way I feel. I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. And just sobbing. And I think that might've been like right around the, maybe like the day before or right around that time. But we hadn't really talked about it because we hadn't ever, I don't know. It's such a blur. It's such a fog. It's
00:15:22
Speaker
What a beautiful thing he did for you. I know. I know. I'm so glad you brought that up and I was going to ask you about it too because we, you and I have talked a lot about this and Jen and I are wanting to talk a lot about it with Bloom After Baby too, of the experience of the dad as well and that they can struggle too with their own
00:15:43
Speaker
postpartum mood or anxiety stuff, but also with how to help us. Yeah. Right. And Sean has shared with me so many times that he felt really lost at times with when he knew I was struggling because he didn't know what he could do. He couldn't fix it. And so many men are programmed to fix and for that to be their, you know, what they can offer that bring me to the table. And so I know that
00:16:07
Speaker
for a lot of men and for those moms listening, maybe your partners have felt this way too. It's like, you feel really helpless when they see you struggling and suffering and being this version of yourself that they've never, maybe never seen before. Right. And not knowing what to do and not knowing how to help. And what John did was so beautiful. I know. Like, and so vulnerable of him to say that. Yeah. To not knowing how you might react or feel right in the moment about it.
Honesty with Healthcare Providers
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah. I don't even, yeah. And I just, I don't even think he,
00:16:39
Speaker
I think that was just, he just knew she's not okay. This is, I'm going to get help, you know? And he's really good about doing that too, about like reaching out to others for help. And I remember too, he had tried prior to this, like, I think it was like the second week, like Nora was like two weeks old, so little. And he scheduled a day out and we went to Stillwater and we got beers with Julie, Greg and Nicole and me and John and doing stuff like that. He was able to,
00:17:08
Speaker
You know, that was him helping. Yes. Cause you wouldn't have done that. Absolutely not. No, you wouldn't have told them. I couldn't even like, I literally, I couldn't even think straight to set up a plan. You know what I mean? I couldn't even plan something. Right. Yeah. Let alone. Yeah. Yeah. Cause your brain can't, I get it. It's so all consuming. It's like that part of your brain is shut off, which is actually sort of scientifically true, which is crazy.
00:17:36
Speaker
But I love, I love that. And I just hope more dads can learn how to like fully lean into that power that they have to help in ways that might not feel super intuitive to them and might not feel also, there's no immediate gratification there. Right. Right. But he just like advocating and like you said, cause you commented on our post about it, that he found the words when you couldn't find the words or something.
00:18:05
Speaker
So it's just so beautiful. I also think it's cool that the pediatrician even asked that. I know. I was surprised. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. And she, and I'm thankful for our pediatrician too, because she has a daughter who's a year older than Nora. So I felt like we were kind of in this, she understood, she understood as a mom with little ones, you know, how challenging it can be. Yeah. So this is a kind of a tangent, but one other really
00:18:31
Speaker
important thing that has been on my heart and kind of was in my face when I had my second, when I had Blake, is this like, what is that impulse we have to not be honest with doctors?
Gratitude for Advocacy and Friendship
00:18:46
Speaker
I don't know. I'm a therapist. We're in my office right now. I teach people how to advocate for themselves. Then when I'm in a doctor's office and they give me the PHQ-9 or the GAD-7, which are the standardized surveys for
00:19:02
Speaker
depression and anxiety i'm like hesitant to be honest right i know what is that i don't know i don't know if it's because i don't know i don't want them to think i'm crazy yeah like that's like a whole lot of thing we need to break down but that is interesting though because i know totally right yeah and and i'll i'll tell more about this story in future episodes i don't know if i've told you this but
00:19:23
Speaker
After we had Blake, we were in the hospital still, and they came around and they gave me those assessments for depression and anxiety. And I do want to say how we've progressed, how that they even give those to new moms now, which is incredible. But I had been really depressed during pregnancy, which you know. And so
00:19:46
Speaker
If I had, if I was being brutally honest on that, I would have scored really high on the depression survey. And I sat there and I like grappled with it. And Sean was sitting in the corner. He was holding Blake and I was filling it out. And the nurse had left it with me with all the other people, like discharge paperwork. And I was so torn up about, I was like, do I be honest on this? And then I was like, no, I have to be honest. Like this is what I'm doing for a living. I can't, I feel like I can't be honest.
00:20:17
Speaker
Even when I'm really scared to me, like how can I expect anyone else to be that's not in this field, right? And so I was and the look on the nurse's face when I handed it to her of like just pure
00:20:33
Speaker
She was terrified. I thought you were going to say that she was like, Oh honey, I'll take care. No, no. And bless her heart. I don't blame her. It's a systemic problem, but she obviously hadn't been trained in like what to do. Yeah. Yeah. What to do. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so she was just like, she was like fumbling with the papers and okay. Well, since you scored this on this, I'm going to have to call your OB and we're going to have to get her in here before you can leave.
00:21:03
Speaker
And she was like, poor thing. I was like, so when she left, I turned to Sean. I was like, oh my gosh, I just terrified her. I was like, why did I do that? And he was jokingly like, they're not going to let us go home with her now. Like, you're going to end up in the psych ward. And it was like funny, but also I was nervous. Yeah. I genuinely was like,
00:21:23
Speaker
Were they going to come in here with a straight dragon? Yes. Anyway, so that didn't happen. And they ended up sending in a social worker, which I was grateful for, because we had this great conversation. And I'm so glad that that resource is there in the hospital.
Parental Shame and Supportive Friendships
00:21:37
Speaker
But it was just an interesting experience. Totally. There's so much more to talk about there. Anyway, I'm so grateful that John advocated for you. Yes. Yes, I know. Same. So one other thing I want to say about our friendship that, again, I think is so valuable for moms to know
00:21:53
Speaker
in terms of when you're looking for mom friends, or friends in general, is that not only have I never felt judged by you, but I've never felt that you've judged my child. And that's harder to come by than you might think.
00:22:14
Speaker
Because kids are crazy. Right. They are. Reid has hit Nora on the back with a toy vacuum before. And shoved her down at the Los Molina house. And he's done many things that make me, and this is my own issue. This is not about him. It's about me when I go into a shame spiral. What is wrong with my child? Nothing is wrong with him. But you've never been
00:22:44
Speaker
reactive about that. You've never been gentle about that. And I've always felt that I could come to you with anything I was going through as a mom in the transition and knew I could be completely honest with you. Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker
and vice versa. And I could tell you anything that was happening with Reed and I knew you would still love my kid too. Yeah, definitely. And that is so, so important. I mean, you were there for me when I had to take Nora out of daycare. Yeah. I, John and I are so grateful for you and Sean for opening up your house and letting our child even go there for two days a week. And she got to play with a buddy. Yeah, he hit her. Whatever. No big deal.
00:23:24
Speaker
Kids hit? Yeah, they do. I remember they were running around and they just smacked right into each other. Yeah. So PSA, for those of you who still have infants, kids hit and bite and do all sorts of things that you thought your kid would never do.
00:23:42
Speaker
and nothing's wrong with your kid and nothing's wrong with you. Yeah. And like, even if you, like you struggle with Reed being physical, whereas I struggle with Nora being verbal and saying really hurtful verbal things. And it makes me want to just crawl in a hole. And again, that's like my issue.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah. Because I know that she's just finding her place and trying to figure out she knows exactly who she is. Yeah. And I know Dr. Becky has helped us both.
Deciding on Family Size: Personal Considerations
00:24:09
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Definitely. Love Dr. Becky. Okay, so last main topic I want to touch on is where you are currently in your motherhood journey. Yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
And I know as Nora and Reid were growing and embarking in the toddler stage, and we were both navigating the struggles of that. We both were honest with each other about, I don't know if I want another one. For a long time, we both were kind of grappling with that.
00:24:38
Speaker
and Sean and I ended up deciding we did and as you know I still questioned it until she came but we made that decision earlier and I know you are still yes making that decision and figuring out what's best for your family and I think the way you and John are navigating it and talking about it
00:24:56
Speaker
and the way you're seeking guidance about it. It's so easy to get stuck in asking for advice from a million different people, like what should I do? I feel like you have done such a good job of seeking other people's
00:25:10
Speaker
personal experiences and guidance, but you and John are still making the decision together as a team. And what I love so much is that you're taking into account your own needs as a mother, a wife, a friend, a daughter, a professional, and a human being in that decision. And I feel like you're such a good role model for being a mother who is
00:25:37
Speaker
wholeheartedly committed to loving her child and being an incredible mom.
00:25:44
Speaker
And also knowing that you are also so much more than that and that doesn't define you. Yeah. So will you share a little bit about where you are with that and how you're making that decision? Yeah, definitely. So originally when I, it's crazy because when I first had the idea of starting a family, I always thought I would have two or three kids. But before John and I got engaged when we were still dating,
00:26:09
Speaker
I had said that I wanted kids, and John said he wasn't sure. He didn't say no, but he said he wasn't sure. And I said, I 100% want children. And if you're not sure, then maybe we shouldn't do this. And we didn't talk for three days. We really had to decide if this was what it was. Ultimately, he said, I'll be open to it. So I was like, good enough for me. I can change him. No problem. That's easy.
00:26:32
Speaker
And this was pre-engagement? This was pre-engagement. So this is probably like, we have been together, John and I have been together too for 12 years. And we've been, yeah, so we were probably dating for five years at this point. So for a while. So then after we got married and once, and when we did get married, we had, within a year, we had gotten engaged, gotten married, bought a car, bought a house, moved cities, had a baby.
00:26:57
Speaker
So it was like wild, right? And that probably is a lot to do too with my postpartum anxiety and depression. Like the fact that I couldn't even, I didn't even know where to drive. If I tried to get myself out of the house for the day, I wouldn't even know where to go. Yeah. You literally move into your house.
00:27:14
Speaker
when I was like three weeks before I gave birth. Yeah, 30 miles south of where I was living. So anyway, then fast forward. So we had a baby, then fast forward a year and a half later at the time you're supposed to start talking about having your second, right? Supposed to. Supposed to, right? I'm like, all right, John, let's do it. And he's like, what are you talking about? We are barely, we're barely holding it together with one.
00:27:41
Speaker
like how and I had never I had never even thought that
00:27:47
Speaker
you could have one, just one. And so for me, it was really, really difficult where I was like, my world spiraled because I had originally been like, I'm having two kids. That's what I've been told. I've told myself that. And so it was really difficult for me at first. And I feel like I grieved for a while and I really struggled with it, but it never like was totally off the table. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it was always like,
00:28:15
Speaker
I don't know. Like, not yet, but let's talk about it again. Not yet, but let's talk about it again. I feel like we've just talked about it on and off so much. So it took me a long time to come to the fact that we might not have two kids. And I was in this stance that I couldn't... My marriage and my family are...
00:28:31
Speaker
so important to me and I never want to be in a position where like I am forcing John to have a baby. You know like that just it just wouldn't work especially after having a child and like it just it has to be something that we both really want.
Couples Therapy and Family Planning
00:28:47
Speaker
So anyway like now as of this past January we were quote-unquote scheduled to have a conversation about it and I was six days late on my period.
00:28:58
Speaker
And I was like, oh shit, I think I might be pregnant. Like, oh no, this isn't, what are we going to do? And so then obviously I told him, Hey, I'm late. I'm going to take a pregnancy test. And then when I took the pregnancy test, it was negative and I was sad, but I was more sad that the decision hadn't been made for us. Yeah.
00:29:21
Speaker
It would have taken that out of our hands, right? And so then after that, he was like, well, if you're sad, I guess that gives us our answer and whatever you want, I just want to make you happy. And then after that, I was like,
00:29:35
Speaker
Well, you know what? I actually don't know if I want another baby at this point. I have done so much soul searching in the past year, two years of my life just like really thinking about who I am, who I want to be, who I want to become.
00:29:52
Speaker
outside of being the mom. And I feel like the last 10 years of my life, I've had it basically laid out for me where I was going to get engaged, get married, move into the cliche timeline, whether or not I want to admit that. Like I was living my life for that. And I really had to ask myself, do I want another baby because that's what I'm supposed to be doing? Or do I want another baby? Why do I want another baby?
00:30:19
Speaker
And so I've really been on this like journey trying to figure that out. So anyway, now essentially the ball is in my court. And I don't know if I do want another ring. And because I've really learned to like, I have a hard time with this. It's okay. Okay, so it's so I know that you have you've shared some of this with me as you've gone through the process. Yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker
And what I really respect is that you have, you and John haven't been afraid to get help with this. You went to couples therapy.
00:30:51
Speaker
I know at one point you guys were going through a hard time in marriage and do you feel like this looming decision was part of that? Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It was. Yeah. Okay. And so then how did couples therapy help? Well, she basically, she opened up our eyes to saying like, even if you have a baby, like even if you have
00:31:12
Speaker
one, two, three, four kids. The most important thing for you guys is your marriage. So you need to make sure that your marriage is rock solid at all times. And for us, the thought of bringing another baby in at this point is like not
00:31:27
Speaker
It wouldn't be there at that point. It wasn't a good time. It wasn't a good time. No. And so that helped, that actually helped us because we were like, okay, like this is, we are dealing with some stuff and we don't, we don't need to be adding more stress. And then I talked to another therapist and she provided me with like actual physical answers to realistic questions to ask yourself about adding
Societal Expectations vs. Individual Choices
00:31:50
Speaker
another baby. And all of this really helped with my decision too, because it was like, can you, is your family going to be able to
00:31:56
Speaker
handle the added stress. Are you financially secure for this? Will you need another car? Ask actual, tangible questions that made it more measurable. Yes, exactly. And I think that you could, in a fantasy world, you could say, yes, we'll make it work. We'll figure it out. It's all good. But this is the only thing that we, as a society, talk about.
00:32:23
Speaker
in like a fantasy world when it should be like the most realistic conversation that you have. Like, yes, you will figure it out because you don't have another choice. Once the baby comes, I don't know, you do have a choice of how your family is going to. And yeah, you will figure it out because you don't have a choice when the baby is there, the child is there. But that doesn't mean it's going to be a good situation. Right. Right. Doesn't mean everything's going to be
00:32:51
Speaker
provided for, right? It doesn't. It's hard to even be honest about that, to say that. And it has been. I'm sure.
00:33:02
Speaker
Like when I, before I got pregnant, I joined a Facebook group that was like one and done. Cause I was in that, that train for a long time and it feels so taboo. And I know I do want to say, I know one of your fears and talking about this openly is that you're going to come off that you don't love being a mom. Yeah. Right. And then you don't love your daughter. So I know and people who are listening know and your family and she,
00:33:25
Speaker
And John, there's no question that you would give your life for her, that you are an amazing mom, and that you love being a mom. You do. I know you do. So just...
00:33:38
Speaker
because you aren't sure if you want to have another. To me, that's like you're being really responsible in this decision. And also something that's coming up for me is that I feel like in previous generations, there was this given narrative of, oh, it will just work out. Like when you get married, you get married to have a family and then your kids are everything to you. And especially for moms,
00:34:03
Speaker
it's you you sacrifice everything for your children and that's what being a mom is and the there are consequences so that there are other how right right i think a lot of marriages
00:34:16
Speaker
we're lost because of that narrative. And I'm just grateful that, I don't know, I'm grateful that we're given this even opportunity to make a different choice for ourselves in our marriages and to put our marriages first. I remember Shomana and I, when we did premarital counseling, that was something we were taught that no matter what happens, your relationship has to be first.
Exploring Identity Beyond Motherhood
00:34:39
Speaker
No matter if you have one kid or 10 or none, your marriage has to come before your careers. Like not every day, not every minute of the day. But I wasn't taught that growing up.
00:34:53
Speaker
at all. I don't know if anyone was, especially if you have any sort of religious background. Totally. Yes. I think that is a lot where it comes from. And Sean and I put those words in our mouths that we wrote because we were so inspired by it and we still are. And it's so true. But anyways, I really admire you for putting that first and for not being afraid to talk about this because I know it's hard.
00:35:22
Speaker
And I know you want to help part of why you wanted to talk and we're open to talking about this because I asked you. Yeah. Because you forced me to come out here. Because you really do want to reach other moms and you want to help other moms who may be either trying to decide if they want to have another or just feeling lost in motherhood and who am I anymore. And like it is okay to
00:35:45
Speaker
not die on the hill that your children are everything to you or your child and that your purpose in life is to be a mom. Yeah, totally. And I think there's just a lot of fear around if you do want multiples, that they have to be close in age and that they have to be a certain way. Or I don't know, if we decide to have another one, I'm not saying we're totally done, but I'm also not saying that we're not. And I think that that's okay too, to leave it open-ended just based on
00:36:14
Speaker
we'll decide when we decide and if we had a kid and they'd probably be five years apart and that's fine because that's the decision that we're making for our family and just being like really confident in that and you know doing a lot of research on what it would look like to have just one child it's interesting the things you find a lot of it is systemic right when people ask you for example it's never
00:36:39
Speaker
Are you going to start a family? Are you guys going to have kids? Multiple. Even little questions like that. And I think that I struggled with that for so long just to get out of this sort of vision that I had. It's okay to change and it's okay to switch paths. And it's crazy how motherhood will just make you hit complete rock bottom and figure it out from the ground up.
Only Child Concerns: Research and Insights
00:37:03
Speaker
And I'm grateful for it. I really am. I think it's done
00:37:09
Speaker
a number a number a number on me i'm sweating same same okay yeah i mean it's
00:37:17
Speaker
It's uncomfortable conversations. It's so important though. Is there a part of you too along with that idea of it being a given that you have multiple kids? Has there been a concern or a stress or worry that you're going to damage Nora somehow? There has been in the past, but based on, like I said, I'm the type of person, once I have one idea in my head, I'll just go down a rabbit hole and read every book and research every influencer and podcast I can. No.
00:37:45
Speaker
If you need tips, let me know. But yeah, definitely like I, she needs a sibling relationship and she's going to be a spoiled brat or all these things. And then just the more I've come to research it, like some of the most successful people are single children. Some of the smartest, most well-liked research has shown that they are only children because they don't have their siblings to sort of lean on. They're forced to get out of their comfort zone, make these
00:38:11
Speaker
strong relationships with friends. They don't have siblings that are either trailing behind them or that they're looking up to to follow a certain path so they can really choose who they are and who they want to be. And they have two parents who are putting all of the time and love and attention and it can be a really beautiful way to raise a family.
Conclusion and New Ventures
00:38:30
Speaker
And I think it's quality over quantity. If we decide to have another one, great. And if we decide to have just one, I'm also totally happy with that and just going to roll with it. Yeah.
00:38:42
Speaker
I don't know how we pulled this off, but it's a Wednesday night here as we record. Between us, there's three children that are accounted for somewhere, not within our possession currently.
00:38:55
Speaker
And we're going to go out to dinner. Sounds great. So thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Rachel. And thank you so much for everything you're doing for moms. And you are so inspiring. And I admire you in a million ways that I can't properly express verbally. But you are an angel.
00:39:14
Speaker
feeling is so mutual. And in the spirit of identity, will you tell us a little bit about what you're doing? Sure. And how people can find you if they're in the market for real estate. Yeah. So I am a newly licensed six months ago, real estate agent, but I've been in the real estate industry for six years, working more on the escrow side. And now I've just fallen so in love with South Orange County, where I live that I want to bring
00:39:43
Speaker
as many amazing people to houses that they want to live and grow and love down here in, in this beautiful place that we call home. And so if you are in the market for a home list or buy, let me know and I can help you. Yeah. All right. So I'll link your website and my Instagram is at Rachel Boji. That's B O G Y. All right.
00:40:11
Speaker
It was bogey in my head for the longest time. All right. Love you. Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most.
00:40:31
Speaker
And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week, so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned. We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the Gram and TikTok. Plus, go to bloomafterbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.