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From Prenatal Depression to Popular Pregnancy Podcast Host with Laila from the Learning to Mom Podcast
107 Plays1 year ago
This week on the @bloomafterbaby podcast we’re joined by fellow podcast host Laila from the wildly popular @learningtomom.podcast. Laila shares with us her personal journey through a difficult pregnancy and challenges with prenatal depression, motivating her to create a pregnancy and birth-focused podcast as a way to educate and inspire women who may be struggling in pregnancy themselves.
In this episode we’ll discuss:
- Symptoms of Depression in Pregnancy
- Risk Factors and the Importance of Support
- Practical Tips for Managing Prenatal Depression
- Navigating the Digital Landscape of Motherhood
- Understanding Medication and Mental Health
- The Power of Social Support in Motherhood
- Addressing Misconceptions and Embracing Motherhood
- How to know if youre ready to be mother (spoiler - you are!)
Here are some helpful resources mentioned in this episode:
How to Connect with Laila:
Her instagram HERE
Her website HERE
Screening tools for perinatal depression
Follow along with Bloom After Baby for all things maternal mental health: Instagram @bloomafterbaby and website bloomafterbaby.com
** Don't forget to leave a rating and review if you enjoy this Podcast! Thank you so much! 🥰 **
This podcast does not contain medical advice and is for entertainment purposes only.
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Bloom After Baby, pregnancy mental health, motherhood challenges, unplanned pregnancy, motherhood wellness, Learning to Mom podcast, postpartum depression, mental health struggles during pregnancy, depression in pregnancy, mood changes in motherhood, symptoms of depression during pregnancy, seeking help for depression
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Bloom After Baby'
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
Layla's Pregnancy Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
But today Layla is joining us to get a little bit more personal. Today Layla will be sharing with all of you a glimpse into her own personal pregnancy journey, including her mental health struggles and battling prenatal depression. So today we'll talk about some of the risk factors for depression in pregnancy, signs and symptoms of depression, and some of the ways that symptoms can look a little bit different in pregnancy versus other times in your life.
00:00:49
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in.
00:01:15
Speaker
We'll talk about how to distinguish between typical mood changes and symptoms of pregnancy versus more serious symptoms or what could be clinical depression. And Layla also shares with us some of her reflections on her pregnancy experience now in hindsight, what she's learned, what she'd do differently.
00:01:35
Speaker
what she wants other moms to know. So if you're pregnant or if you're a new mom and you're struggling with mood changes or difficulty adjusting to the early stages of motherhood, this episode is definitely for you. So with that, let's dive in.
00:01:52
Speaker
All right. Welcome back, everyone. Today, we are so excited to have Layla from Learning to Mom podcast on here. We've actually referenced your podcast on our pod before, and probably a lot of you already listened to her podcast. It is wildly popular. So we're so excited to have you here today, Layla. And we're really looking forward to hearing about your experience. You have kind of a unique experience with perinatal mood and anxiety.
00:02:17
Speaker
conditions and also really excited to hear about kind of how you Responded to that and turn that into this incredible platform and podcast that you'd started So thank you so much for being with us today
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah,
Unplanned Pregnancy and Societal Pressures
00:02:32
Speaker
absolutely. Well, that was so nice and such a warm welcome. Thank you. I'm just really glad to be here and finally be able to really connect with you. I feel like it's been such a long time coming and I just respect so much what you're doing, what you guys stand for. So I'm really thrilled and I'm excited to just have a transparent and open conversation today. Thank you. Yes, same. And I'll apologize to everyone I told Layla.
00:02:56
Speaker
horrible cold. So I'll try to do less of the talking, but this is about you anyways. So it's going to be, it'll be good. Yeah. So why don't we just jump in? Some listeners might be familiar with your story, especially those who listen to your podcast, but I'd love to just kind of start from the beginning of your experience in particularly the pregnancy period and your experience with mental health stuff during that time. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll try to kind of like
00:03:24
Speaker
divvied up into chunks almost because I don't want to just be like giving a monologue over here. So I've been starting at the very beginning. First, I'm like just ripping off the band-aid. You don't even know like the whole backstory, but my boyfriend and I got pregnant when we were still dating and I really, really struggled. I was young. I like never even know how old I am. And I'm still too young to like get to that point.
00:03:53
Speaker
like you do it you're like kind of in your mid 30s or something but I'm only in my mid 20s and I'm still like I don't know how old I am um but I was like out of college like fresh out of college young the first of my friends to become a mom or get pregnant and I was just absolutely scared of my mind and so unplanned I assume
00:04:13
Speaker
Yes. We got engaged, praise God, that if I were to get pregnant by someone before I was married, that it was someone that we had already started discern marriage. He wanted to propose on this trip, and that's why we ended up making our baby. So praise God that it did all work out. But I've had a lot of misconceptions around motherhood that I just
00:04:43
Speaker
Believe in the lives that the lies that society gives you the like your life is over You have to totally give up yourself. It's complete sacrifice, which is like true, but also Just neglect so many of these like beautiful realities of motherhood and instead I was really Inwardly focused about my life is over and this is not what I wanted as a 24 25 year old woman especially when
00:05:12
Speaker
society paints motherhood in this like really negative, just horrible light was like, that looks horrible. That's not what I want at all, especially not right now. So I just really, really struggled. And that led me into experiencing prenatal depression.
00:05:30
Speaker
which I know is kind of the majority of the focus today.
Understanding Prenatal Depression
00:05:35
Speaker
Um, but essentially like there's different risk factors that I'm sure too. Um, one of the risk factors is non-plan pregnancy. So I know that was definitely like my case, but that's kind of the story and how pregnancy where I was when I got pregnant and all the things.
00:05:54
Speaker
And thank you for sharing that. That's a unique story. We haven't had that exact story yet. Although I'm sure it's also a common scenario, right? I think I don't know the statistics around that, but how many pregnancies are planned or unplanned. But yeah, you're totally right. Obviously, that's definitely a risk factor for mood disorders, anxiety, and depression in that period. Can I ask, you talked about feeling like society kind of painted a negative picture related to motherhood.
00:06:23
Speaker
Had you wanted to be a mother? Were you planning at some point? That is a really good question. And I think that was something that also made me struggle was because I never wanted to be a mom. It was something that was inevitable. I wasn't against it. I wasn't someone that was like, I do not want to be a mom. I was kind of like, eventually, I think I'll have a family one day. But I never grew up even playing house as a little girl. I had no interest in being the mom.
00:06:52
Speaker
Like not for me. And then college and you're a young adult and I had a really great career at first, you know, just thought the like corporate world was for me and then I was going to do all these things. And a baby just totally changed everything for the better, but I didn't know it then.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That hindsight, of course, but how would you, and I actually read an interesting, um, article the other day, it was a study that looked at, you know, different risk factors for, um, moon anxiety disorders in the perinatal period. And it talked about how optimism, like your attitude towards parenting was like a huge component of that, which is really interesting that, yeah, if you're going into it, like, I don't really think I want this. It's not going to be, you know, yeah. That is so interesting. It makes so much sense, especially when I look at it in my own life, like
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, horrible. And I didn't want anything to do with it, especially at that young age. Yeah. Yeah. And so your mindset, I mean, you were already set up for it to be more challenging, right? Cause like you'd already been.
00:07:55
Speaker
putting a stage of your life or your mindset wasn't like most conducive to that kind of acceptance. Did you, so did you have any history of depression or anxiety before? No, and that is a really great question because that is another one of the risk factors.
00:08:12
Speaker
already have depression or anxiety, then you're more at risk for having prenatal depression. And yeah, this was the first time that I ever experienced depression. So honestly, I didn't even know that that's what I was experiencing. Actually, truth be told, I feel like this prenatal depression is something that is so often because it doesn't get
00:08:31
Speaker
the attention that it deserves during pregnancy because it gets confused with, oh, you're just pregnant. You're just, you know, you can't get out of bed. Well, that's just because you're pregnant. Oh, you're tired all the time. That's just because you're pregnant. Yeah. Um, so it kind of can be confused with pregnancy symptoms. And then secondly, just because it's never talked about, you don't even think of it as an option or as an explanation to why you're feeling this way. You're just kind of like, I'm just like really struggling and like down in the dumps, but like, whatever you don't realize, like,
00:08:59
Speaker
This is actually an issue that you need to go, that you need extra support and need help with. And so it wasn't until an episode on my podcast where I had a guest on and she just mentioned it like off the hand, offhand, whatever that means. And I made a note of it to go do some more research later and I was like, oh, that might be good to have a guest on. And then it just led me into this whole rabbit hole of me being like,
00:09:23
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that is what I had. So I will say I was never like medically diagnosed. I self-diagnosed myself after the fact of doing all this research. And that is how the majority of women
00:09:40
Speaker
find out that that's what they have. They literally listen to a podcast episode or finally read a news article that's long overdue because again, it doesn't get the attention that it deserves. That's when women connect the dots of like, I wasn't crazy. I was really struggling.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which is so interesting because you, um, you know, you have all these different checkpoints where you are being screened using those screening, like just the routine screening tests, the PHQ, um, or the Edinburgh tests. Like both of those are used pretty frequently throughout.
00:10:17
Speaker
pregnancy and then definitely in postpartum and that just totally highlights the issue that a lot of times those miss, you know, they miss the diagnosis because so many of the symptoms like you just said overlap with normal symptoms of pregnancy. And so it really is hard to tease out what is normal and what's not normal. So tell me more about the timeline then you, so you diagnosed after you had in postpartum. This was after you started the podcast. Yes, exactly.
00:10:46
Speaker
Another, if you experience prenatal depression, you're more at risk to experience postpartum depression. And just by the grace of God, I did not have postpartum depression. I think it must have been the Lord just being like, I don't think you can handle other things.
Research and Critique of Diagnostic Criteria
00:11:02
Speaker
I'm not going to go through that as well.
00:11:08
Speaker
no explanation for why I was lucky enough to not also have postpartum depression, but I didn't. And I was able to, yeah, I started the podcast and I had like looked back on it and I was like, Oh my gosh, that just so explains it. Um, but I can kind of get into more about like, you know, the definition. Um, if, would that make sense? That's a great idea. Yeah. Cause yeah, we should backtrack because, um, you're right. Some people are not familiar with that yet at all. Absolutely.
00:11:39
Speaker
The easy definition of prenatal depression is that it, it's like literally so, like such an easy, you could definitely come up with this on your own, but that it refers to depressive symptoms experienced by expectant mothers during pregnancy. And the symptoms then are pretty similar to depressive symptoms, but are present obviously during your pregnancy. So like persistent sadness, feelings of hopelessness, loss of interest or pleasure and activities, changes in appetite. And I'm not just talking like,
00:12:00
Speaker
OK, so.
00:12:07
Speaker
First trimester changes in appetite, you know and also changes in sleep patterns And I think those are two things, you know that overlap with just like normal pregnancy Irritability again, your hormones are off the chart. It can get overlooked is just pregnancy Excessive worry or anxiety about the pregnancy guilt or feelings of inadequacy difficulty concentrating and thoughts of self-harm or suicide
00:12:34
Speaker
And then they used to say that it impacts one in seven women, but just this week I was reading this new, like this research article and I'm not a sciency person. So a lot of those articles kind of go over my head. Like you would do a lot better. Like one of these kinds of articles, what I gathered from the article is that research is being done in China right now on prenatal depression.
00:13:02
Speaker
Um, and they're still like coming out with stuff, but basically what was said is that they're discovering that it impacts more women than postpartum depression does. Oh, wow. How interesting. Yeah, it's just something. And then the point of their research is that they're creating a model and better screening for it during pregnancy. So that is really, really exciting. And hopefully we'll get that, like their results soon and hopefully over here in the States as well.
00:13:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you make such a good point, like you said, the same definition or diagnostic criteria as outside of pregnancy. And that's what's so frustrating or so kind of challenging about it is that the DSM criteria, like the criteria for diagnosing mood conditions, they haven't actually
00:13:53
Speaker
designated depression in pregnancy or depression in postpartum postpartum depression as its own diagnosis right like it's tagged on as just depression occurring within in that period but the issue with that is like you've pointed out the diagnostic symptoms how it manifests can be very very different right and so why are we actually kind of trying to lump it into this category that
00:14:15
Speaker
is so really not similar in a lot of ways in terms of how it manifests and presents itself. And then two, we know that the causes are so different too, right? So much of it has to do with hormones, very unique psychological and environmental components and stuff too. So it's really kind of, I know there's been a lot of effort for it to be recognized as its own DSM diagnostic condition and having it
00:14:45
Speaker
now kind of designated at least that caveat is a step forward. But you're right, hopefully with studies like this, we'll be moving towards really more recognition of how unique it is as a condition kind of outside of routine depression and anxiety and other mood. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned some of those risk factors. So let me just kind of list off some of those. That'd be great. Two, this was something for me when I
00:15:14
Speaker
understood the risk factors. It was finally, or not the, it was the first time where I was like, oh, this really could, like this could be it because it's very clearly like unplanned pregnancy is one of them. And also symptoms as that I listed off earlier, I think it's just so helpful.
00:15:32
Speaker
just hearing a list of them or seeing a list because you can be feeling like, you know, five of those and you don't really connect all of the dots until you see them in one place. I resonate with five of those, you know, whereas when you're going about your day, you don't really like keep track of all your symptoms or, you know,
00:15:54
Speaker
Totally, that's a good point. The risk factors. And I also, though, I want to stop here before I read these. Just because you have one of these doesn't necessarily mean that if you're listening to this while you're trying to conceive or something, you already have depression. It doesn't mean you're a shoo-in for prenatal depression. It doesn't mean any of that. So I want to take some of that weight off.
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah. But here are the risks. First, I just want to say everyone is multifaceted. It's not a one shoe size fits all. Right. And there's, like you said, a combination of biological, physiological and social factors. And then when you add that just to your pregnancy hormones, like it's a it's a lot to be going through. Yeah. But long story short, risk factors, history of depression or anxiety, stressful life events,
00:16:51
Speaker
a lack of social support, relationship difficulties, financial strained, and unplanned pregnancy. So those just like at a higher risk for experiencing it. But I also say you can have prenatal depression without any of those. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking,
00:17:09
Speaker
this might be me. I don't feel like guilty or like you shouldn't feel this way because you don't match up. Like this is out of our control. It doesn't matter how we get it, how we start experiencing it. All that matters is that you realize that you need and you deserve the help. Yeah.
Recovery and Support Strategies
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Did you thank you so much for reading through that. That is helpful. And I think you're totally right. Seeing that list and being able to kind of quantify like how
00:17:37
Speaker
impactful and some of those symptoms are in your daily life can really kind of like bring it to the forefront. Did you feel like looking back when you had that hindsight, any of the symptoms presented or kind of like disguise themselves? For example, I remember thinking, okay, postpartum rage was one of my main anxiety symptoms and I had no idea what it was until learning more about it. Did you have any symptoms that kind of felt like they were a little bit tricky? Oh,
00:18:05
Speaker
I've never thought about that. What a good question. Um, I think I chalked up a lot of it though, just to being like, yeah, it's because I'm in an unplanned pregnancy and I'm not like, yeah, I want to be pregnant. You know, like no wonder I'm, I can't get off the couch. Like I'm just freaking sad because I don't want to be a mom. I didn't, you don't, I guess, and I too, I didn't realize that this was like a possibility, like,
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, like I didn't want to be a mom and I was sad, but that was leading me into something much more serious and I was just treading water, not getting the support that I needed because I didn't know I needed that support. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And that adjustment component, I mean, I guess kind of going back to that risk factor of unplanned pregnancy, that probably ties into that article I mentioned where it talks about optimism and
00:19:02
Speaker
you know, anticipation. And if you're wanting to be a mom, and if you're not, not having, you know, obviously not not having that mindset yet. And that's tough. I mean, we have assistance for way less important life changes and decisions and to not have that and especially when it's something that like, you need assistance in that adjustment process. Yeah, it's pretty wild. That's so true.
00:19:31
Speaker
And two, when you are struggling with this, I think that there's another complexity of guilt that you experience from, similar to what women experience with postpartum depression. Because it's like, you should be so happy you have your baby. Or you should be so happy that you got pregnant when your best friend's been trying for five years. Or even you could be trying for five years and get pregnant and then experience prenatal depression. And the guilt that comes with that
00:19:59
Speaker
just adds a whole level of extra complexity and emotions. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So how far into postpartum when you recognized that you'd had depression and pregnancy? Oh, months. Like I gave birth in July and I didn't probably figure it out until like
00:20:21
Speaker
six, seven months later. Like I was through it. I had gotten over it, was very grateful that I didn't experience any postpartum depression or anything. But I mean, I still, like you can't forget not getting off the couch or literally not brushing your teeth or like refusing to shower. And because I had never experienced depression before, I didn't know what those like signs were, you know?
00:20:49
Speaker
Again, it was just like, yeah, I don't want to be a mom. This sucks. My life sucks. Yeah. And I think, I mean, there's obviously these are treatable conditions. And so it's really important to recognize it during that time because you deserve help and you can find support. They are treatable, but it sounds like you didn't seek support, right? Because you didn't recognize until
00:21:14
Speaker
And is there anything that you would attribute to your improvement then after having babies that you didn't? I think a lot of it was me being in an unplanned pregnancy and then we got married and I was seven months pregnant. And so I think that just gave me a lot of peace of mind.
00:21:33
Speaker
and but I think too just like it was really just like the grace of the Lord being like it's and I also was just really blessed that like the baby was born and we bonded instantly and I didn't really have any serious postpartum issues and things like that which
00:21:54
Speaker
was just like a big, huge blessing. But there were a few things that I discovered as I went through prenatal depression that I realized like, oh, if I did this, it kind of boosted my mood, which I can get into. I have like eight tips. That'd be awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First and foremost, recognize the signs. Obviously, this is not one that I did during prenatal depression. But I guess I keep up with this list, like,
00:22:21
Speaker
looking back and after self-diagnosing and then also just talking about it. Like I talk about it on my podcast, although it's not the focus, but I do have an episode on it. Um, and I talk about it like throughout. Obviously it's a huge piece of my pregnancy. Um, so I do talk about it, but one is recognize the science, which wheels it off. So hopefully that's done to talk openly with your healthcare provider about it. We talked about this. Um,
00:22:48
Speaker
You know how like just a lot of times they're not, it's not screened and depending on your provider. And I know that, you know, a lot of times it just kind of depends on their insurance and we might not have.
00:23:02
Speaker
the like, sure, you may want to go to this hospital with this provider, but it's out of our hands and you just have to make do. So I feel like a lot of times we have to take that into our own hands and say, actually, this is really uncomfortable for me to talk about, but I am really struggling because they're not going to ask. They like really don't ask unless I feel like the only time that they kind of like ask is when they walk in the room and it's just like, hi, how are you? And we all know you're,
00:23:30
Speaker
socially acceptable response is great. How are you? You know, are there like, how's pregnancy going? And then you're just like, Oh, my back hurts. It's getting heavy, you know, but like, you kind of have to leave that conversation. Because unfortunately, as we've talked about time and time again, by now, like, it doesn't get the attention that it deserves. Most likely these doctors aren't researching prenatal depression in their free time.
00:23:58
Speaker
When they're on 24-hour shifts, it's not top of mind to do that when they don't have a patient. So talk openly to your health care provider about it, but that's something that you kind of have to leave the charge with.
00:24:11
Speaker
Re-seek therapy or counseling, huge advocate for that. You know, if you already have depression, you can continue talking to your therapist who you have a relationship with or try to find one that's like specialized in it. I know now there's like really great online therapy, you know, there's better help, although I personally don't really recommend them, but if that's
00:24:38
Speaker
what you have open, better help, way better than nothing. So yeah, so take advantage of therapy or counseling. Or seek social support, because one of those is a lack of social support. That's one of the risk factors. But I also just want to, on the same, while I'm saying seek social support,
00:25:05
Speaker
also set some boundaries with friends or family if need be. If someone has never experienced depression in their life and is not showing you any empathy because maybe they're the one trying for five years. It's your sister and she can't get pregnant and she's like, suck it up. You need to set boundaries. That's not someone that you need to be seeking social support from right now. So I just really hope that you can find
00:25:31
Speaker
one person, if that's your partner, if that's your best friend, if that's your mom, like just one person who can keep you sane, can show you empathy and be understanding to this. Because if you only have social support, that's literally like suck it up, then that's only going to make it worse. Yeah. Um, number five, this one is my favorite. It is
00:25:59
Speaker
to unfollow any and all negative social media accounts. And I am specifically talking about the relatable mom accounts. I have such beef with them because those are the accounts that really made me think motherhood sucks was like these
00:26:23
Speaker
And related, I don't even want to, they're not like, I don't know, some of them are influencers, some of them, but they're just like relatable mom content where it's like complaining about how hard motherhood is every day and just completely partner bashing their husband and just being like, yeah, he sucks. And I hate being the default parent. And I had to get up five times in the middle of the night because I'm the default parent and all this stuff. And like, I still don't subscribe to any of that because I know how much I'm impacted by what I see online.
00:26:53
Speaker
But right now, you really have to safeguard not only your friends in real life, but also your friends on the internet who is on your feed. Because if all you're seeing is horrible comments, conversations, Instagram stories about how Brotherhood is so hard, then you're not going to be excited about it.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good that's such a good one. And I think we've kind of like almost taken like the pendulum swung too far and that transparency and honesty around motherhood that you you're right, it definitely can kind of fall into that really negative territory that for sure can can be impactful. Yeah, 100%. I think it used to be like
00:27:38
Speaker
Instagram was this place to just put your best foot forward and how this picture perfect life and then people like revolted against that and became just like this is the ugly of it but then when all you're seeing is the ugly and none of the beauty it sucks and when you have never experienced motherhood before you don't understand how much beauty there is. Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So yeah, that's a good one. My favorite. Number six, this is like in any, this is, you're going to find a step anywhere, but engage in self-care. So whether that be going on blocks or painting or taking a bath, like.
00:28:15
Speaker
whatever it is that fills your cup, do it often. I think this is where it's really crucial to have good social support because I know that for me, my social support was definitely my boyfriend and he was making sure that I was doing those things because you're not going to want to do them. Let's be honest. You're going to need someone that's going to be like, have you
00:28:39
Speaker
hung out with your friends lately? Have you done anything besides watch TV? Like you need someone to keep you accountable to do those self care activities. Number seven, get outside. You know, this one's like everywhere too. It just really does wonders for our mental health and not like you're going to do a walk around the block and you're going to be cured, but you may feel 1% better and that 1% is
00:29:08
Speaker
going to help, you know? Oh yeah. No, that's a real one. There's something to do with melatonin and serotonin and how that actually, like there's actually a physical argument there. So definitely that is a good one.
Role of Medication in Treatment
00:29:21
Speaker
And then the last one, number eight is I just want to make sure that you're aware, like medication does exist and that there is no shame
00:29:29
Speaker
and taking medication during this time. I think a lot of women are really nervous to do that, obviously because of pregnancy. But if you are having those open conversations with your healthcare provider, you can like, I would go through literally every single one of the side effects and talk to your healthcare provider before you ever take it. It's just that you can feel 100% comfortable and on board and be like, okay, this side effect is increased blood pressure.
00:29:57
Speaker
how is that going to impact my pregnancy and the birth that I want? How is, and then like do the next one because there should be absolutely no shame in taking medication, but I also want to make sure that like you're making a informed decision. Yeah. Yeah. And I can really take an expert. That's such a good point that really finding a provider that has that expertise and is able to have the level of conversation that makes you feel comfortable making that decision. Yeah.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, but I just don't want you to have any shame in taking it if you need to. Like this, you need the support and that's what matters. Absolutely. Yeah, completely agree. And I think especially in that time period, a medication can be such a game changer and
00:30:46
Speaker
and sometimes can really be the only thing that's gonna work very well because there is, there can be so much really a biological aspect to what's going on during that period where medication is one of the most valuable resources. If you are someone who in the compilation of things that are causing your condition, the biological causes are one of the more prominent underlying causes that medication might be your best bet.
00:31:15
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. So that was kind of the eight tips that I have for going through it. And I hope that helped if you're listening and you're treading water. And that you deserve the help and the support. Don't push it under the rug. Don't try to just get through it. You deserve the help.
00:31:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Layla, thank you for those. Those are amazing. So did you come up with those after in your postpartum, just in reflection? Yeah, I mean, but again, like, I mean, one, like, I think I came up with those when I did the episode on it on kind of the deep dive. I feel like it wasn't really that hard.
00:32:02
Speaker
to come up with and I'm sure other people have like really great ones to add who have had their own experience with it. I just know that that's like looking back, that's what helped me and that's what would have helped me if I knew about it.
00:32:17
Speaker
Absolutely. And you did such a good job hitting the social pieces, the boundary setting or having a reliable, reliable support system, but also setting boundaries around people that might be a more negative impact. Did you experience that in pregnancy? Was that a big piece for you? Do you remember? I was so fortunate. I'm 100% I know people were talking behind my back, like,
00:32:45
Speaker
I feel like that's something too that I've grown into since that experience and being a mom that I don't really care what people say anymore. I knew that people were talking behind my back, but by the grace of the Lord, no mean comments were said to my face and I had a really great... My friends just really came alongside of me and I was just really, really blessed with people that were thankful and praising me for choosing life. Good. Yeah.
00:33:15
Speaker
rather than not choosing life. And so I think I really held on to that. Like I remember crying at my baby shower just like at the end and just like thanking everyone for walking alongside of me. I don't know how I would have gotten through it to be honest without like, I really don't know how I would have gotten through prenatal depression if it weren't for my social support. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:45
Speaker
Again, kind of going back to the risk factors and all of that, it's kind of both sides, right? Like not having that support system can be the game changer of whether or not you're able to kind of move through it or avoid kind of falling into a full on depressive state or not. Yeah. And I think it's something that, yeah, we really don't anticipate. I mean, especially because of the way we talk about pregnancies, like it's always this joyous time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
And it's also not linear. Like I would kind of think that I was doing better and then, you know, I wouldn't cry for two weeks. And then I would have like a breakdown and like sobbing, screaming that I didn't want it. Like, and then I would be fine for three days on another work. Right. So it's like not linear. Whereas I think if you sometimes you're like, Oh, I'm fine. I'm past it. And then you'll get hit with another wave and it just is like,
00:34:46
Speaker
Yes, yes, that's so true. That's a good point too and a good distinction between kind of regular depression or anxiety and those conditions in the perinatal period that you're right, there can be some major swings, you know, probably in part due to hormones.
00:35:03
Speaker
also probably in part to these major life changes, environmental changes, and psychological, as you're continuing to go through this mental process of, wow, my entire life's about to change. And how that clearly impacts your mood. Yeah. Pregnancy is so hard. Without any of these extra issues, it is hard. And then you just throw this on top of it, and it is a double whammy. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Turning Experience into Positive Platforms
00:35:33
Speaker
So you're, I mean, your story is amazing. You were like an incredible example of someone who kind of navigated through all of it with a lot of things that were challenging. And then, then you even went on to kind of, um, flip it and focus on pregnancy and motherhood and creating this podcast. And I'd love to hear more about that, how that all became a focus.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I love, I love the podcast. It's really awesome being able to serve women in a way that like I was, I wish I could have been served in my pregnancy. So the learning to mom podcast, um, is all about informing and educating first time moms on pregnancy and birth without making them feel overwhelmed because I'm in one pregnancy and birth is just really overwhelming. And then in my story, you know, like,
00:36:23
Speaker
anything was really overwhelming because I was at capacity already, right? So I really needed something that was gonna like come in, be uplifting, and also transparent and help me out. And I felt like at the time when I was pregnant, there wasn't many, I mean, there's pregnancy podcasts out there, but there was none that like I vibed with.
00:36:50
Speaker
Um, so I wanted to create something like I had a very clear vision. So, um, I guess the learning to mom podcast is different from other podcasts. Three ways. Um, first it's structured. So season one is all about pregnancy. And then season two, that will air in September is babies, like first year of life. And then season three will be the baby's second year of life and so on and so forth. Because what I was finding is that I would really like a podcast episode here or there.
00:37:16
Speaker
and then be like they would jump from like pregnancy to toddlerhood to postpartum to pregnancy and I was just like okay I'll come back in two weeks to see if I can relate to this episode so I wanted something that like was very structured and can just meet you where you're at and then the second thing that my podcast is different from others you are definitely right that you're doing the same thing as me as like we're uplifting and encouraging
00:37:42
Speaker
I'm not going to give into toxic positivity because that is not helpful either. But I am against partner bashing. I'm against just complaining about motherhood because we've talked so much about today that just doesn't serve women well. And then, oh my gosh, what is my third thing? There's three things. I'm structured.
00:38:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh, this is horrible. Oh, oh, oh, I remember it. The third thing is that I do really try to make it...
00:38:18
Speaker
like every seat, every view has a seat at the table. So I'm not just talking about home births or natural births, but like also hospital births, just that way first time moms can make informed decisions. Because I, what I was finding is that, you know, a podcast might be out there and be like, okay, this is really great. And I'm really vibing. But like, they're so against epidurals that if I get an epidural, then I'm going to feel so fricking guilty.
00:38:40
Speaker
Or like, okay, I'm really vibing with this one, but they have nothing to do with doulas. They think that they're so like, you know, they're stupid. They're just like conventional medicine all the way. Yeah. Wanted to make sure that like everyone has a seat at the table. Those are great. I love that, that you've laid it out in that sequence from season one through season three, almost almost kind of like a curriculum, but more fun. It's fun.
00:39:06
Speaker
So if you're listening to this and you're vibing and you're improving on friends, then go over and check out Learning to Mom podcast. I am wherever that you're listening to Bloom After Baby. I'm there with you guys.
00:39:21
Speaker
And I want to know too, how do you go about like, how did you even go about deciding what topics to cover because you have such a wide variety of topics, but at the same time, they're so applicable. Like you had the one the other day on relating to like introducing your baby to your pet, right?
00:39:38
Speaker
And it's like, how did you even think of all of these topics? It's, I don't know, by the grace of the Lord, probably the same reason that you come up with topics too, you know, I have like a notepad, and I write it down, although now it's all transferred into an Excel sheet. And so now I'm doing now that I'm planning season two. And like, when I
00:39:57
Speaker
when I come up with a topic, although I've had, I have 52 topics lined up. But then if one pops into my brain, I'm like, oh, which one needs to go? Do I like this one better? Or would I squeeze this topic into season three? So I'm just kind of like, it's kind of probably what? Maybe I can, maybe I'm like Taylor Swift. I'm just always on the hunt. Always made me.
00:40:28
Speaker
Which I'm sure you're the exact same way. Well, you've done such a good job of it. You have, yeah, some really fun topics, but also get to the heart of like the core most, most important things. And I love how like you've talked about you've
00:40:40
Speaker
Kept a positive spin on it. I think you're so right that we definitely are seeing a trend towards focusing on some of the challenges of motherhood, but not in a constructive way that really talks about what the problem is and what solutions are. It does feel like there's oftentimes that it kind of gets twisted into
00:41:00
Speaker
a bashing or complaining. And yeah, I wanted to ask about that kind of too. You touched on it early, early on about the misconceptions and did you feel like there was any specific influence that kind of impacted your perception most significantly? You talked about social media, but. I think for me, honestly, it was social media, a lot of it, because like my mom loved motherhood.
Influence of Social Perceptions on Motherhood
00:41:25
Speaker
Um, I mean, and two, maybe though, it was that I never really envisioned myself to be a mom. That was never, some, some women literally like ever since they're little, they're just like, I just know that I'm going to, I want to be a mom. And I was like, man, not relate, like could not really as an eight year old, like, I don't want to be. Um, and then growing up in your algorithm starts getting filled with like these just women complaining about motherhood and you'd
00:41:54
Speaker
see that and you're like, that looks horrible for me. Thank you. So I think a lot of it had to do with this whole like relatable mom content push because all of my friends, none or none of my friends were pregnant and like years away, you know, like I'm still waiting for my friends to start having kids. Um, and, but I also think that that was part of it as well of like, well, I'm going to be the first one and I'm not going to have any mom friends. I'm just,
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, I just didn't feel ready and all of the things, but it doesn't, it's fine. Being a mom absolutely rocks, absolutely rocks. And something that I always say is that like I didn't feel ready at all. And I just, if that's you, I just really want to tell you that like you are ready. You just don't know it yet because I know how overwhelming it can be and how
00:42:53
Speaker
unqualified and inadequate you may feel. And I so appreciate you normalizing that because even if you do want to be a mom, there's probably not very many situations where it is just the perfect timing and everything's going to go smoothly. So it's so normal to feel that way. And then yeah, I just appreciate you calling out the reality nowadays that what you're exposed to through social media or, you know, other avenues, you know, like we look, we turn on the TV and like,
00:43:23
Speaker
The mom's always complaining about the dad because the dad just like sits there and watches TV while the mom makes dinner and takes the kid to soccer practice and like all the stuff. And then she just yells at her husband because he's lazy. Like when that's the model that we have, no, we are scaring women. Like we are scaring them from ever wanting to become mothers. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think it's like subconscious that can start showing up in your own relationship and your own kind of perception.
00:43:52
Speaker
of behaviors and things without really even recognizing where it came from. Yeah, so it's so cool that you're calling that out and then also that you've created an alternative through your podcast and through your social media that you've created an alternative that people can come for reality but not that really negative spin. And I think both Rachel and I have talked about as a therapist and as a doctor ourselves not really having the awareness around
00:44:22
Speaker
perinatal mood conditions or not recognizing them when we were experiencing them in that period. And we both felt like social media and for me podcasts particularly ended up being one of the best educational tools. So yeah, I just think it's so great that you're putting that out there and creating that resource that is really one of the missing pieces or one of the best ways I think to reach moms. Thank you. That was so freaking kind.
00:44:48
Speaker
I hope you air that so I can rewind. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's true. It's so true. Yeah. You're really making a big difference. So we appreciate you for that.
00:45:05
Speaker
So Layla, before we wrap up, I'm going to ask you those two questions that we usually ask at the end of each episode.
Embracing the Joys of Motherhood
00:45:11
Speaker
So they're both just kind of like a fill in the blank. The first question is, I didn't expect motherhood to be so like fun. It's so fun.
00:45:21
Speaker
That's something that I don't think gets a lot of press or attention. It's truly so fun. I wish I had a better word than fun, but it's literally just so much fun. We haven't gotten that one. That's great. You can tell that you absolutely are overjoyed to be a mom, and that's awesome that that's your experience. But in the context of everything else you talk about and the challenges, it's not superficial. It really makes sense.
00:45:50
Speaker
I love to hear that. It's definitely like super hard, but I think the hard has been getting a lot of focus lately. And yeah, it's a lot of fun. And remind me how old you're. She's a year and a half. So she is like, you know, like she's walking, she's starting to talk. Her personality is like definitely there, but it's really like there for the first time, you know? Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah. I think I'm, what I'm going to struggle with going forward is cause like, she's my best friend. And then I'm like, but I know that she can't be my best friend. Like I have to be a parent. So when, when do you make that transition? Cause right now it's fine. I can call her best friend all day long, which is also wild. This is just a rabbit trail, but also wild, but like, I mean, I was calling her my best friend when she was like two days old.
00:46:49
Speaker
Like this child doesn't even know me. Like how are we best friends already? Yeah, no, it's a built in best friend. They are they totally in 18 months as my youngest is 18 months. And it's such a fun age. Yeah, like starting to develop all their little abilities and personality. It's really cool. All the bad things too. Yeah, we're doing they are doing a full swing.
00:47:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. You're starting to get some of that resistance autonomy pushback. Yeah. Um, fun. Okay. I love it. And then the second question is, I wish every new mom knew blank, which you kind of covered with your list of, um, eight tips, but any kind of overarching, I think I'm just going to say what I said before of like, I just wish that they knew that they are ready for this and like they can do this, even though you might not think
00:47:45
Speaker
that you are. But also at the same time though, like with this conversation that we've had, like if you need help, then you need help. And that doesn't mean that you're like inadequate or not made to be a mom or that you're not a mother, you know, like get the help and the support that you deserve, but also know that you, you can do this with the right help and support.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think hearing your story, continuing to hear stories where people look back and say, Hey, I wish I'd gotten more support. I wish I'd known to reach out for those resources. Like that's so reassuring to invalidating and comforting to know that it's normal to need, need those resources. We should have those built in and they're just not yet. So yeah, I appreciate you sharing that message.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on. I loved our conversation.
00:48:41
Speaker
And I'm, you were just like gassing me up this whole episode. Like literally I'm going to have to rewind this every day and be like, I need some encouragement today. Let's listen to Jen. Well, we're honestly big fans. You're one of the first podcasts, like mom podcasts I found just as a mom, like looking for stuff to listen to. So, um, you're doing great work. Yeah. You're putting a lot of great information out there and.
00:49:05
Speaker
We really appreciate like the transparency and honesty in your story too, because I think there's so many moms that relate to what you've gone through. So, so cool that you're willing to share that. Well, thank you. And I love absolutely what you're doing and all the lives that you're serving and touching. So you keep at it too. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for being with us and we look forward to connecting with you again soon. Thank you so much. All right. Great. Thanks for listening to everyone.
00:49:34
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned.
00:49:58
Speaker
We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the Gram and TikTok, plus go to bloomactorbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.