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13. How to Fall Apart, with Dr. Cassidy Freitas, LMFT
220 Plays1 year ago
Oh mama, we can't wait to get this one into your earbuds!
In this episode, the loving presence that is Dr. Cassidy Freitas takes us through the confusing, disorienting, wonderful, transformative process of becoming a mother. Besides being one of our long-time role models, Dr. Cassidy Freitas is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and was one of the first professionals to begin using social media to disseminate information around maternal mental health. In this raw and honest conversation, Dr. Cassidy shares her personal story of entering motherhood, the difficulties she endured, and the "beauty in the breakdown" of falling apart and rebuilding a new version of yourself as a mom.
We also talk about:
- Birth trauma and it's reverberating effects
- The surprising way mood disorders show up in postpartum
- Paternal mental health and postpartum depression in dads
- Domestic labor roles and the invisible emotional load
- Eve Rodsky’s book “Fair Play” which outlines a household system for distributing domestic labor
- Glennon Doyle Melton’s term “brutiful” (brutal and beautiful) from her book "Carry on Warrior"
If you are a new or expecting mom, this one is a must-listen!
You can find Dr. Cassidy on Instagram @drcassidy and her podcast "Holding Space", And attn California Parents! Dr. Cassidy's group practice is accepting new clients and they have so much support to offer you as you navigate the muddy waters of postpartum, parenting, and relationships. You can get in touch with them via her website www.drcassidymft.com
Other BAB resources related to this episode:
- Mindful Momming 10-Day Challenge
- Free Guide to Addressing Resentment in Your Relationship After Baby
- Dr. Jen's Practices for Connecting with Future You
If you enjoyed this episode and appreciate what we share here, please rate and review the show in your favorite podcast app! And come find us on Instagram @bloomafterbaby!
*Please note that this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for seeking individualized care from a mental health or medical professional*
Stay Tuned for more to come from Rachel Daggett and Dr Jen Jordan on all things motherhood and mental health - real mom experiences and insights from a licensed psychotherapist and medical doctor.
Learn more about us and access all of our courses, services, and free resources at bloomafterbaby.com
Pregnancy tips Postpartum wellness Prenatal care New motherhood Postpartum recovery Maternal health Pregnancy journey Expectant mothers Postpartum support Motherhood experience Parenting advice Family dynamics Parenting tips Raising children Family well-being Parenting challenges Family relationships Parenting insights Mental health for mothers Emotional well-being Coping with motherhood Maternal mental health Self-care for moms Stress management Emotional resilience Conversations with experts Interviews with mothers
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Mission
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Post-Baby Relationship Dynamics
00:00:32
Speaker
Let's get to it You're listening to a bit frazzled the podcast with bloom after baby and on today's episode we're exploring the massive motherhood transition We're looking at relationship dynamics and changes after baby including the topic of the division of labor and the invisible load of motherhood And we have an incredible guest for you guys today. She's someone who's really leading this conversation around the invisible load and
00:01:00
Speaker
in the mental health space around this issue. So, Rachel, you want to introduce Dr. Cassidy? Yeah.
Meet Dr. Cassidy Freitas
00:01:06
Speaker
Dr. Cassidy Freitas is joining us today. She is a mom of three and a licensed marriage and family therapist with her own group Private Practice in San Diego, California. She specializes in trauma and loss, relationships, perinatal mental health,
00:01:23
Speaker
And she also coaches therapists who want to take the leap into private practice, which is where I initially found her. She also has her own podcast called the Holding Space podcast, which I have followed and admired for many years. And I'm so, so excited to share her wisdom and her soul with you all. I highly suggest that you send this conversation to
00:01:47
Speaker
your partner and let it be an opportunity to communicate with each other with open hearts. I know for me, Jen, this conversation came at such a timely moment in time for me as Sean and I have really had some oh shit moments in the last week, just around marriage after
Marriage Challenges Post-Baby
00:02:08
Speaker
baby. And it's so, so hard. I'm personally feeling super convicted about my own role in
00:02:15
Speaker
stewing in resentment and not always communicating enough with him when I'm feeling burnt out, overloaded, and not always leading with love, not always accepting his bids for connection or his offers to help because I will speak for myself, but I know a lot of women relate to this of feeling like, well, I'm the only one that does it right or I do it all. And we kind of start to just sit on a high horse a little bit and be offensive and defensive with each other.
00:02:45
Speaker
And that's where the resentment cycle really can become addictive. So this convo really spoke to me this week. What about you, Jen? Yeah, yeah, definitely the same, definitely the stage that we're in too with our kids being kind of similar
Social Media as a Mental Health Resource
00:03:00
Speaker
ages. I think we're going through some of those relationship strains that
00:03:03
Speaker
you face in early parenthood and Dr. Cassidy, I mean for everyone listening, I think she really can be such a great resource. I found her early after my second daughter and she was one of the first people I started following on social media, one of the first like periminatal mental health accounts and she is such a great resource because she really brings mental health teachings to the social media platform, things that are really like difficult
00:03:28
Speaker
concepts, tough conversations, uncomfortable conversations, uncomfortable topics to face with your partner and something that you really need a lot of guidance and it can be really hard to find that professional guidance. She is a professional but she meets that professional expertise background with the social media platform and does such a good job of helping to break down some of those really tough topics using that tool and that resource. So I would definitely recommend
00:03:54
Speaker
that everyone check out her Instagram and then also her podcast, like you said, Rach, that she has a great podcast where she discusses these topics too. So we're so lucky to have her with us today and we're excited to share her insights. So let's get to the conversation. So Dr. Cassidy, thank you so much for being here today.
00:04:20
Speaker
have both been following you for a long time and for sure reference you a lot in our clinical practices. And then you've really been someone we've turned to professionally and in our motherhood journey. And I think with the personal component, so both of us being a family medicine physician and a therapist did not expect to be so unprepared for the transformation that is becoming a mother.
00:04:45
Speaker
So when we went through that transition, both of us were really surprised that our background, our experience, and then also our perinatal, our maternal healthcare didn't prepare us for that very well. And so we started turning more to social media and that's where you really became someone that
00:05:02
Speaker
we found and turned to for a lot of our education and information around this topic. So we'd love to hear more about your career trajectory, kind of pivoting to that focus, and then also how you've decided to use social media as one of your main platforms for educating.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's really fun and really meaningful to reflect back on that whole process of getting there and that journey. But first, thank you so much for having me and for sharing that because sometimes we create content or we put something out there and it's hard to always know who is on the other side.
00:05:38
Speaker
is anybody out there listening, but I'll keep doing it. Because even if it just touches one person as you shared that it impacted and was meaningful and touched you, then it's worth it. So yeah, my journey into this specialization came with my experience of becoming a mom, as I think it does for so many.
Personal Journey into Perinatal Mental Health
00:06:01
Speaker
So my oldest, she's now 12. And so over a decade ago,
00:06:07
Speaker
I was in my master's program and at the time I was getting my hours, seeing clients in a collaborative healthcare setting. So in a family medicine clinic at UCSD, I was working collaboratively with the doctors and the nurses. So folks were coming in to them and then they were fortunately getting educated on mental health and the support of a therapist. So they would do a warm handoff to us as therapists in the clinic.
00:06:36
Speaker
a really, really beautiful sort of introduction into what collaborative healthcare should really look like and could look like. And so I got pregnant in that last year, my master's program. I walked across the stage getting my degree with, she was there with me in my belly and then she was born a few months later.
00:06:57
Speaker
I really thought I knew what was going to go down. I was like, I am a therapist. I was working with folks who were expecting a postpartum in the family medicine clinic. I was like, I know the symptoms of anxiety and depression. I know that having kids can be hard on a marriage. I had done some of my own work at that point in time.
00:07:27
Speaker
not a ton of like really really deep work. I think that I was kind of doing what I had always really done to kind of keep myself protected and safe was through school. So I just I really relied on
00:07:42
Speaker
education. And so I had learned a lot of things. I took the baby CPR class. I took a birth class. I made a plan, right? Like I had a plan for what I wanted the birth to look like. I did a lot of research on what I needed to put on my registry. And I think that now I understand that there were a lot of my perfectionism, kind of like
00:08:12
Speaker
smart kid, straight A student parts of me that were showing up in my plan for birth.
00:08:22
Speaker
in this way because I was like, that's how I'm gonna stay safe. This thing feels really brand new and like what I know how to do, how I know how to do things is by preparing and studying and taking the classes and like having the perfect registry and like I am gonna A plus this birth, like this postpartum, right?
Traumatic Birth and Therapy Journey
00:08:43
Speaker
And with all that, right? Like with perfectionism, with these sort of high achievement kind of drives,
00:08:51
Speaker
It becomes some rigidity too, right? And so I had a pretty rigid idea of what I wanted birth to look like. And I really focus on that, right? Like that's something that I could focus my energy on and then all the rest of it, right? Like breastfeeding, that's natural, right? Like I always wanted to be a mom. I've babysat before. I've pulled all-nighters at school. Like these things, like it's all, I'll get, I'll be fine, right?
00:09:18
Speaker
So I I hired a doula that also shared some of my rigid views of what the birth was gonna look like and I went into it again with these rigid ideas and and a lot of pressure and a lot of high expectation and then things hit the fan and it didn't turn out as I anticipated it ended up being an emergency cesarean belly birth that I call it now and
00:09:47
Speaker
It was traumatizing. I remember the doula, she, she laughed because I had hired her because she had these, you know, I've never had a C-section, very quote unquote natural birth, vaginal birth, right? And now I understand there's so many beautiful natural ways for a baby to come into the world. And, and that was through my belly. But I, she left and I remember the look on her face. That was a part of the trauma for me when she, when I said just, when I finally said, let's do the C-section, right?
00:10:17
Speaker
And I was so exhausted. And when they pulled her out, my husband was like, she's here. Look at her. And I turned away like I couldn't even look at her. I couldn't even open my eyes. And that part of the birth and the look on my doula's face and like my husband saying, look at her, look at her and like his anxiety of like, why aren't you looking at her? Those two. There was there was a lot of
00:10:44
Speaker
EMDR therapy work later on around those experiences and and then that kind of You know set this stage for what what came after right
Postpartum Anxiety and Depression
00:10:55
Speaker
there? I was like, okay well I really felt like I my body had failed me and I had failed her in this first experience and so the way that I I
00:11:02
Speaker
Coked with that was those parts of me, the perfectionism, the rigidity, the need for control, anxiety. So always being on alert for the bad thing that's going to happen just ramped up. So now I'm struggling.
00:11:19
Speaker
traumatic birth experience that I that just quickly got brushed under the rug to now cope with well I failed that so now I need breastfeeding I became so rigid about the feeding experience and journey and was not open to supplementing right it was like this this is gonna work and then I got mastitis and then I had plugged ducts and then she was colicky and then we weren't sleeping in my anxiety and
00:11:46
Speaker
just was really it really took a hold of me and Kept me I had intrusive scary thoughts. I struggled to leave the house My partner who my husband who had a history of depression it was experiencing what we didn't know what the time was but now we understand was postpartum depression as a non-birthing partner which is a real thing and so we're both struggling and my
00:12:16
Speaker
My identity as a therapist kind of kept me from getting support. I felt a lot of shame. I am struggling. I can't let anybody see this. This was not part of the plan. This is not the identity as a mom and the image of a mom and
00:12:33
Speaker
I felt like I wanted to keep my baby safe, but she felt like a little alien to me. I didn't know her, duh, right? I don't know her. Any relationship, the most beautiful love stories take time, but that just wasn't what I expected. So I eventually got help and really took the
00:12:54
Speaker
It felt like a risk of sharing with someone that I was struggling and to have them a friend and have them look at me and say, oh my gosh, you too? And to be like, wait, wait, hold on. I'm not the only one. Just that opened up the door for me to get support, for me to open up to my partner, for him to open up to me. The antidote was the meaningful risk of opening up in connection and feeling less
Educating Through Social Media
00:13:23
Speaker
alone.
00:13:23
Speaker
So, I ended up going back to get my PhD because I wanted to do more with what I was discovering about postpartum, depression in the partner, like the experience of anxiety, which I was not assessed for. I was assessed for depression but not anxiety, right? Like the experience of traumatic births and just how this impacts the whole system.
00:13:48
Speaker
And so I went back to get my doctorate and did all my research on the postpartum experience. I published research on postpartum depression in dads because that was not something that was in the research. It was definitely a place where we needed more information. And then I graduated and I got my license and I was like,
00:14:14
Speaker
Okay, what do I do with this now? And let me back up a little bit that actually while I was in my PhD program, I was on Instagram and social media as a blogger because I was able to activate my creative identity through that. So for example, I partnered with Pottery Barn Kids once and
00:14:32
Speaker
I organized and directed a photo shoot for them where parents could come up with costumes that went with some of their Pottery Barn kids' costumes. That was a really fun project I was working on. But here's the thing, I didn't use my real last name on social media because at that time as a therapist, the message was you need to keep your identity really private and your work is behind closed doors.
00:14:56
Speaker
So I was doing this like creative work and this part of my identity that was really fulfilling, but it was something I had to keep like separate. So this part of me was very like disjointed from my role as a therapist. So I graduated, I got my license and I shut that account down because I was like, well, I guess that part of me like ends here. And so then I was starting my private practice.
00:15:24
Speaker
figuring out how to reach the clients that I wanted to work with, which at that point through the research and through the experience and the training was a specialization in working with parents and that transition into becoming a parent.
00:15:37
Speaker
And I was like, wait, I actually know how to reach folks. And this research that I've published, it's going to take years for this to trickle down into the true stakeholders, which are not just the providers, but the parents themselves. And so I don't want to wait while this research just lives in these research journals that eventually will trickle down to the people that really need it, but it takes way too long.
00:16:05
Speaker
And so I very cautiously stepped into social media. I mean, at the time there were not a lot of therapists on Instagram. This was back in 2000, like
00:16:25
Speaker
It was about a decade ago and there were not a ton of people on Instagram as licensed therapists or as licensed providers beyond maybe Bernie Brown and Esther Perel and there were a few others. I got on and I connected with a couple of therapists that were on there and just really
00:16:44
Speaker
cautiously, slowly started to share information that I knew that research that I had done and research that I had read and work that I was doing, but in a way that I still wanted to uphold the integrity of my license. And so slowly started to do that. And then it sounds that's where you and I initially connected. And so I'm so glad that I did.
00:17:08
Speaker
But it was really scary and there was a lot of unknowns. And then eventually I was also teaching adjunct and I loved teaching therapists and I wanted to connect with therapists in ways and teach them things that I had learned along the way in starting a business. And so I know that you and I, Rachel, had also connected in that way because I have a podcast and some courses for therapists on
00:17:31
Speaker
utilizing Instagram while upholding the integrity of your license, right? Like how to market and reach those ideal clients about podcasting and blogging and all these things. So eventually my identity got to coexist all these different parts of me, but it was it was fragmented there for a while.
00:17:49
Speaker
as was my identity in the transition to becoming a mom felt really fragmented. But opening up, connecting, getting that support was really very meaningful for me. And so I wanted to provide an opportunity and a space for that for other parents as well. So amazing. Cassidy, your story is so inspiring. And that is one piece of your story that I wasn't super familiar with was when like exactly when and how you brought your identity into social media and your professional identity and
00:18:19
Speaker
That's something that through my training as a therapist has been one of my favorite parts of learning that you can integrate your humanness into your therapist persona as well, and actually how powerful that is for people.
00:18:36
Speaker
So I love that you've been a pioneer in that truly. And Jen and I have you to thank for sure for opening up this space for us to be able to do the same as a therapist and as a provider and just being transparent and authentic. And the healing power of that for people is so incredible. So thank you for sharing your birth story and your trauma. And yeah, I have so many thoughts. I could go in like a thousand directions, but just thank you. I'm sure so many can relate to everything you went through.
00:19:07
Speaker
Well, thank you for providing the space for me to go back and reflect. It's not often that I get to do that these days, so I appreciate the opportunity.
Creativity and Professional Identity
00:19:17
Speaker
I would definitely add that
00:19:19
Speaker
We've been so impressed. And again, I think that you're kind of leading the field in the component of making this transition to social media, really about education and like you said, upholding your credentials and the ethical components with it. But I think also you have such an artistic skill and you talked about kind of the creativity that you'd been able to express with the Pottery Barn collaboration and
00:19:43
Speaker
That's something too that I think we've found so inspiring too. We've been a little bit rejuvenated by having this sort of creative, less formal outlet for something we're passionate about, but also can bridge the gap or merge the lines between your professional work and your personal life and interests since you've been someone who's been really inspiring and what that can look like.
00:20:05
Speaker
That was scary though too. So when I first got on Instagram as with my real last name and my like identity as a therapist, I was using my middle name previously. So once I, once I did that, you know, at first it was, I don't even think Instagram stories, reels definitely weren't a thing, right?
00:20:23
Speaker
It was just Instagram posts. And at first it was like being like, okay, is it okay to share this image that feels right? Also aligns with like my value of like beauty. Like it's a really beautiful image, right? Does that feel okay? Because I'm talking about really hard things. And I eventually got to a place of, I'm thinking about like branding, right? I'm thinking about like imagery and color and aesthetic. And I was like, you know, this is something, these are things that I really enjoy. I enjoy creating and I enjoy
00:20:52
Speaker
bringing people in, building that like bridge with a brand and aesthetic and color and imagery or, and now with reels, right? With something that's like brings humor and is really relatable and kind of like acting something out. And then bringing something, bringing people in and then, and then bringing the real, right? Like the real stuff, right? This is, this is going to be really hard, but like I want to catch your eye. And so with,
00:21:17
Speaker
With a graphic that brings in really beautiful illustrations and colors or now with reels, music that really touches you or something that makes you laugh, those are values of mine. I value humor. I'm going to show up as myself and I know from experience now that that also supports bridging a community and bringing in clients that are the right fit for me.
00:21:42
Speaker
Not everybody will be and that's okay too. There's so many wonderful providers out there with so many different approaches that in the diversity that is beautiful and I want folks to find the right person to share the message, right? Because the truth is it's now at this point now.
00:22:00
Speaker
There's a lot of therapists, a lot of providers on Instagram and it's all been said and done before. It just hasn't been said and done now by you and that's meaningful because there's someone out there probably looking for that message or that education or that strategy or that push to reach out and get support.
00:22:20
Speaker
but they need that message coming from someone like you and the way that you deliver it. So I think that being able to integrate ourselves and allow for creativity and for our values to be reflected in the content we share is really important too.
00:22:35
Speaker
And that's also one thing I'd say that you are also breaking down some of those barriers and access to care that aren't just about economic and financial and actually access to a provider, but interest.
Accessibility of Mental Health Resources
00:22:47
Speaker
And some people, they're not going to turn to a journal. They're not going to go online and read a study. And so you're actually breaking down some of those barriers, making the information appealing and digestible. Yeah. Accessibility is one of my values too, along with humor, along with beauty, right?
00:23:03
Speaker
I think that while not everybody is going to be the right fit for our practice because they're not based in California or because we don't take insurance and so they want to use their insurance. I think that what we can do here is provide that support and education in a way that builds that bridge for someone to get support wherever it is that's going to be the best and most sustainable fit for them.
00:23:27
Speaker
deeply important to me. And I think that while social media is such a double-edged sword in so many ways, and there's a lot of things that are problematic about social media, 100%, right? And I think that it's great, it's important to talk about those things too on the app, because that's what people are showing up, right? And having difficult relationships with social media. And I think that it also can be a really meaningful place to make some of these connections and access resources.
00:23:56
Speaker
Absolutely. One of the things that you mentioned in your story was having historically been in a place of rigidity and perfectionism and how through your professional journey and your personal journey in parallel, you learned to integrate these parts of you that were formerly quite fragmented and separated.
Integrating Identity in Motherhood
00:24:16
Speaker
And that is one thing we really want to emphasize in teaching about matressence and that journey into motherhood and how
00:24:26
Speaker
where in previous generations, I think mothers have sort of been, and still now, but we're certainly fighting against it more now and able to have a voice about it, but conditioned to really sacrifice these other parts of ourselves that weren't aligned with the cultural or traditional definition of a mother. And so I love that you speak to that with your professional journey and how you really have learned to
00:24:55
Speaker
still tap into and utilize the creative part of you and the partner part of you and the therapist and the professional and the mother and the nurturer and the scholar, right? And all these different parts of you, you've been able to integrate. And that is one thing I think Jen and I as we start this journey with our new business and our new platform,
00:25:18
Speaker
And also still both being pretty new in motherhood. You know, my oldest is four and hers is Scotty's three. And so we're kind of like, we feel like we need some of your wisdom. And I'm sure our listeners do too about what advice or encouragement would you have for moms who are starting this process, whether they have a professional piece of it too or not. But just in motherhood, how about you balance and integrate all these different
00:25:42
Speaker
parts of you and be able to quote do it all without completely burning out. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons that I love working with parents and in particular, new parents in that transition is there really is something about becoming a parent that I think it's with the sleep deprivation and it's just with the all of a sudden, like your
00:26:11
Speaker
Data day in the groundhog's day and you're so you're so much more deeply connected to your body because of what your body just went through or what your body is like experiencing and what the pressure that your body feels the relationship that all of a sudden like you're seeing this little being that's just
00:26:30
Speaker
It's just full of needs,
Personal Growth in Motherhood
00:26:33
Speaker
right? Full of needs. And it doesn't have any part of them yet that's trying to protect you from their needs, right? There's so many elements of that experience that just breaks us down a bit. It really made me feel like I was falling apart. But I think there's a way of looking at that where
00:26:52
Speaker
It's falling apart in the sense that all of my parts are becoming so much more visceral to me and like they're on the floor, you know, and I'm kind of like looking at this. Oh my gosh, this part of me that I miss or this part of me that feels really triggered by my child's cries and that my child's like intense needs or this like part of me that like now that I don't have as much time feels like I don't have the energy for this this relationship that is really like
00:27:21
Speaker
taxing to me anymore or like I want to protect my child from this dynamic or my partner and I looking at each other in the middle of the night without all of our cognitive functioning because we're sleep deprived and we're just like things are coming out that we don't have as much space to reconnect and repair that we used to and it just oof all of that.
00:27:42
Speaker
I kind of feel like we fall apart a bit, but in a way that I think can actually be really healing when all of a sudden I'm looking at these parts of myself and these relationships and these dynamics and getting curious about what is no longer working or what do I want to shift? What do I want to protect my child from? And with the perfectionism as an example,
00:28:10
Speaker
I, it really pushed me to reflect on my own relationship with my parents, right? And some of the different pressures that I felt and really just even looking at say like my mom, for example, and it's being like, wait, like,
00:28:26
Speaker
I really thought she was perfect. And now I'm really recognizing that's not, I know now, like that's not real. That isn't possible. But, and that she isn't, right? Cause then with through, through work and through reflecting, I was like, I don't think she ever apologized. And then putting her into context, right? As a Hispanic woman in her time in the career that she had as a lawyer and eventual eventually becoming a judge, like,
00:28:54
Speaker
in the spaces that she had to show up in, I think that she did feel like she had
Perfectionism and Family Legacy
00:28:58
Speaker
to be perfect. She didn't get a lot of support from
00:29:01
Speaker
the family system because she was the first to pave the way, right? And now there's so much pride, but at the time she had to be perfect. There was, in order for me to show up in these male dominated white spaces, there's no room for error. And I, now I understand through my work with her that that translated into home, right? And the way that she saw that we, the eyes of women and that she's a woman could be safe and, and by safe, I mean,
00:29:28
Speaker
financially secure, right? Like safe in these spaces was perfection and achievement and education. And so putting her into context, right? It really then allowed me to breathe a little that like maybe some of these things that little me was experiencing, right? Like that I could, I could release myself from and I could, I could shift my mindset. I could begin to do things differently for,
00:29:56
Speaker
my daughter for my children. And first and foremost, though, I had to begin to relate to these parts of myself in a new way, right? And so that part of me that was the protector part, the perfectionism, the high achieving part, being able to, you know, sit with those parts of myself and look behind at what they were protecting, which is a much more vulnerable version of me who doesn't always know the answer and who
00:30:23
Speaker
sometimes needs help and who makes mistakes. And that work I think is the most meaningful part of my experience as a human being and my legacy as a human being, right? Which now looking at it from like a legacy perspective was huge because that part of me that was really anxious and having scary thoughts at the end of the day was actually really
Therapy and Family Dynamics
00:30:49
Speaker
afraid of
00:30:50
Speaker
death and being alone or, yeah, and legacy is this thing that then lives beyond. And so there was just, there was so much meaningful, beautiful work that happened in my own therapy and that now I am able to support my clients with. And I think that Becoming a Parent has this
00:31:08
Speaker
provides this opportunity to begin to look at these parts of ourselves and our relationships and dynamics and our family systems in a way that is really vulnerable. But the vulnerability of I'm sleep deprived, I don't want to screw up my kids, like all of that that comes forward, I think creates this space for change. This opportunity to finally start looking at it and talking about it. It's so profound, everything you're saying. It's giving me chills and
00:31:36
Speaker
It's like the beauty and the breakdown, right? You can't put yourself back together and truly integrate.
00:31:43
Speaker
all the parts of you unless you let yourself fall apart. And I guess that, what you're speaking to is that that does happen in parenthood, right? Because you are so vulnerable and you don't have access to maybe, or the ability to engage in the outlets or coping skills that you might otherwise. And you're faced with this human being that just needs everything from you and feels like a reflection of you and a huge trigger of all your own wounds.
00:32:09
Speaker
And maybe that is one of the huge gifts that we have now in this generation, although there is so much pressure involved in, you know, breaking cycles and re-parenting ourselves. I think there also is this huge gift we are given of having permission to fall apart.
00:32:30
Speaker
And as, I think it's Glennon Doyle, Merton, her word, brutiful, right? It's beautiful, but it's also brutal. And I think that that's important. It's important to name that there also is, being a cycle breaker, it is so meaningful to be the one to look at your family tree, your family system, right? To look at the generation above you and the generation that you're wanting to protect and to say, enough, this stops here. And that is,
00:32:56
Speaker
That is really hard work. I don't think that we need to do that alone. That's been a big journey also just for my husband and I with each of our own experiences and what we both brought into the family that we've created together. Individual therapy, couples therapy. My 12-year-old has a session, her first session with a therapist today, this afternoon. It continues.
00:33:26
Speaker
She came to me and she said, she's been struggling with some anxiety and her and I have a really, really, it's wild, right? Like I was just talking about how disconnected I felt from her and how I was turning away from her and those first few moments of our life together. And now how that love story built and grew and that connection and attachment over the years. And now she turns towards me, right?
00:33:54
Speaker
And we have really deep conversations and I, and she knows now that she could come and say to me, I would really like to talk to a therapist about this too. And for me to be like, Oh yes, let's do it. And that it doesn't have to just be me like that. She comes to that she can access support and that that's okay. And, uh, and I, can I tell you, I probably apologize to my kids
00:34:20
Speaker
several times a
Repair and Growth in Parenting
00:34:22
Speaker
day. I lose my shit. I am frazzled. I'm a frazzled human mother being. And it's like the other day,
00:34:36
Speaker
I lost it on my son. I said something like just, I think I said something along the lines of like, it gets harder than this dude. You know, like he was complaining about something, you know, just not my best moment. And he looked at me and he said, you're going to be saying the S word to me soon. And I like my eyes got all big and he, and he was like, you're going to be saying sorry. And he like stormed off and it was like, at first I was like, oh shit. Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
And he was right. But the fact that in that moment when I lost it, that he could be like, this isn't about me. This is about you. You're going to repair just that right there. It was a super shitty moment. And I remember thinking, gosh, he's going to be in therapy one day and being like, my mom said, it gets harder than this when I was just wanting a snack or something.
00:35:26
Speaker
But you know what? But also in that moment, he knew that I would come and say sorry. And that's something. Oh my gosh. They just always call us on our shit. They do.
00:35:40
Speaker
but they feel safe enough to do that. And that's huge, you know, and the acknowledgement of that. Like it's not about perfect, like ever. And like I want to model to them that like they don't have to be perfect and I want to show them like how to repair. Cause I will say it was really hard for me to say sorry for a very long time. Like it was not something that had been modeled to me. It did not feel comfortable. It was a really tricky part of my relationship, my husband and I's relationship. It was really hard for me to say,
00:36:10
Speaker
I'm sorry. But yeah, I think it was awkward and then I kept doing it because it felt important. And the awkwardness was just a sign that my brain was making a new connection that like, it was like, wait, we haven't observed this. We don't need to doing this. Like my brain's like, I guess let's make a new connection. Ooh, what happens when you do this? You know, and, and now it doesn't feel so awkward anymore, but yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
Well, you bring up your relationship with your husband, and that was one thing we did want to briefly touch on. Jenny, do you want to segue into our question about mental load and invisible
Managing Relationship Mental Load
00:36:44
Speaker
load? Oh, no. Yeah, the relationship component of it. I think so the term mental load or invisible load was new to both of us until entering motherhood and really until recently. And I think we see a lot of it mostly on social media. I hadn't heard about it like in any medical or professional space.
00:37:02
Speaker
We've noticed that you're someone who's talking a lot about it from a relational aspect and that's something that's been really helpful to both of us because obviously that's where that situation shows up a lot. I think maybe we could even take a step back and for listeners who aren't very familiar with the term that you could go over and describe what that even means and from a relationship perspective to what it looks like.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, there's the visible load. In our home, actually, my husband does a lot of the visible load of things. He does the laundry, he does the grocery shopping, he does the cooking, he does the dishes. It's a literal visible load of dishes, a load of laundry, and it's a task that has to be done to run a household with humans in it.
00:37:47
Speaker
And then there's the invisible mental load, right? So that's like all of those running tabs that I carry more of, right? Like him and I have done
00:38:00
Speaker
a lot of work around this. So we actually have made the invisible more visible, right? So these are now visible loads that he's aware that I carry, but, um, for a while it was invisible. And I would find myself feeling quite resentful that like, I was the one thinking about, okay, like there are social lives and like making the connections with parents and what day is library days? So my kid needs to have the book, right? Like in the backpack and what are,
00:38:27
Speaker
you know, what are the appointments that we need to be scheduling, right? Also the kind of emotional, like relational load and being the one that's spending time with the kids, talking about their feelings and about their social life, about school. It's just, it's all those running tabs that are running in the background and taking up space and energy.
00:38:50
Speaker
and I just shared a funny reel. We just had those two weeks when everybody's home and it's like in the holidays and that week between if you celebrate Christmas, Christmas and New Year's and it's just like a wild week, right? We're just like, what day is it? Someone's probably sick and yeah.
00:39:09
Speaker
And so I just, I shared a real recently that was like talking about that week and, and in it, like there's a lot of moments where I'm acting out frustration, right? Where it's, it's the mess in the house, right? It's the dog barking during nap time. It's I'm like trying to get space and I can't because everybody's home all the time.
00:39:28
Speaker
And at the end of the reel, I walk into the bedroom and my husband's on the peloton and you like see me like slowly start to lose it. And then it was like an explosion, right? So, I mean, these things are like actually really fun for me to act out. They're actually quite therapeutic to act out. Like my husband's in on it. Like we're like, we're doing this. We're creating these things together. And I say that because sometimes people don't have that context and they watch it and they're like, well, why don't you talk to him? I'm like, guys, like I'm a therapist. I think we are.
00:39:55
Speaker
I'm just acting out what happens sometimes anyway. Absolutely. It's very real. Yeah. And so, and then afterwards we get to laugh together about it, right? Yeah. But yeah. And so it's this real thing. And I really, I want to name Eve Rotsky here. She's a colleague. She wrote the book Fair Play. When I say that my husband and I have done the work and we have made this visible, like she actually has a card deck that lists like just all of the tasks, the invisible and the visible.
00:40:21
Speaker
And it's like a, it's a quote unquote game, but it's a process that you can go through with your partner to identify who's caring what and making space so that both of you also have space for what Eve would call your unicorn space where you get some space. And she's got another book called unicorn space and, um,
00:40:39
Speaker
And yeah, she was on my podcast Holding Space where we talked about this together and her work was game changing because she's pulled together all the research. She's given terms for this. She's made it visible. And yeah, it's something that a lot of couples don't go into parenting having talked about, right?
00:40:58
Speaker
maybe before kids, like you guys, you know, division of labor was whatever it was. And maybe it worked because, you know, there wasn't like other human beings to take care of. And maybe it really wasn't working, but they're just, you know, it wasn't so obvious that it wasn't working or so painful that it wasn't working.
00:41:17
Speaker
And then we get into parenting and we bring in our baggage from our upbringing and the homes we grew up in, what was modeled to us, right? So we kind of might just find ourselves without even discussing it, getting into certain roles, carrying certain loads, right?
00:41:35
Speaker
And it's not just, oh, I'm carrying all this and he doesn't, right? And like, I am resentful of him, which is part of it. But there's also, there are also elements of like, I was controlling certain things. And so he was like, either he would help and like, I'd get annoyed that he wasn't doing it right, right? Or he didn't.
00:41:54
Speaker
help and I was getting annoyed that he wasn't doing it at all. And so there was just this dynamic that needed to be addressed and be communicated on. And like we were communicating, but just not verbally communicating, right? Like in an effective way. And so because people say he's not communicating or she doesn't communicate, we're always communicating. Sometimes the like turning away from, right? Or the
00:42:19
Speaker
shutting down or the eye roll or the facial expression is communication, right? So we're always communicating. It just was finding more effective ways of communicating with each other and understanding each other's parts that we're getting activated in these moments. And
00:42:36
Speaker
Yeah, that was really powerful work for both him and I that we did together and that I also support couples with now too. I think I was always so scared to be like, I'm a human being that makes mistakes and struggles and went to therapy and benefits. I actually believe that those are the parts of me that make me a really great therapist because
00:43:00
Speaker
I get it. I'm human too and not afraid to show up as a human being that also has training and specialization and has done the research and all the above. But trust me, in my own marriage, I show up as human being Cassidy, right? As a parent as well. That's one of the things too, I think you call out a lot on social media, but you talked about with Eve was kind of that toxic messaging that's so ingrained in us that
00:43:25
Speaker
my way is the right way, or it's going to take more time to explain it, or there's really this one way to do it. But it's subconscious. I mean, at first, a lot of that. And so we're not communicating it other than through dirty looks and frustration. And so I think you helped us really kind of recognize some of those unhelpful thoughts.
00:43:42
Speaker
Yeah. And it's, it's, it's so, it's so meaningful though to go out there and share these things and then to hear like the, get to the DMS or the comments or, or in session, right? Like just to have access to so many other people's experiences and stories and to be like, wow, we are really not alone. There are so many moments when I'm with a client and I just had a session when I'm like, Oh gosh, I really wish I could have introduced you to the client I just saw because
00:44:08
Speaker
I think one, you guys would make really great friends because I think they just would. And because you're not alone in this and they're sharing what happens behind closed doors. And I think that there's ways, some creative ways to share on social media and then to dive deeper here through the podcast platform where we can begin to share those things and people can begin to feel less alone. And that's my hope.
00:44:31
Speaker
If that's part of my legacy in any which way, then I will feel so much meaning around that and joyful around that. Absolutely is and will be. Okay, Cassidy, so we have a couple just quick questions, just kind of brain dump first thing that comes to mind when I ask you these and we ask everyone that is going to come on our podcast these. So fill in the blank. I didn't expect motherhood to be so
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's like I just thought that I was like going to have all the energy and the bandwidth and I can get energy and I can get bandwidth, but I need like margins for myself in order to recuperate, you know, I didn't expect that like the part of me that like the introvert part of me like I am an extrovert, but I feel like I've introverted needs that I didn't expect.
00:45:28
Speaker
and was tricky for me to figure out how to get space for and ask for and carve out but it's exhausting and that's okay. Like I can find energy, I just have to take care of myself to recoup that energy so I can be present in the way that I want to be. Yeah and that's one thing I love about your
00:45:48
Speaker
how you shared your story too, is that you're so transparent about it not being what you expected at first. And there can be so much expectation going into it that I know for me personally, I can speak for myself. I was like kind of told
00:46:03
Speaker
It will all just fall into place. It will all just make sense. It will come naturally. Your baby will just know how to latch. That didn't happen. Your baby will breathe when he's born. That didn't happen. And then it's what's wrong with me because I thought this was all just going to happen and fall into place. And I'm way more exhausted and burnt out than I thought. And so just normalizing that and
00:46:25
Speaker
Again, going back to that, just permission to fall apart to then bring yourself back together. And I'd say that too. He just talked about it earlier, but the visceral component of motherhood and the visceral component of some of those tasks that like, it isn't just the list of to-do items. It's that in motherhood, so many of those items carry
00:46:47
Speaker
So much emotional weight that is like a different type of fatigue. Yeah, they really do 100% and just like also over stimulating like I just need sometimes to not be touched and for it to be quiet and to get back into my body and like my nervous system to feel like Regulated again, and that's it's it's hard, but it's so important. Okay, one last question then we'll wrap up one thing I wish more new moms knew or knew about
00:47:15
Speaker
I think that the power of taking the meaningful risk of opening up like that was the game changer for me. It was just like letting someone in to some of the intrusive scary thoughts I was having specifically.
00:47:29
Speaker
that open up the door to then be opening up about the birth experience, about my marriage struggling, about some of the views of my relationships that I really needed to begin to get more curious about and take a closer look at. And I think it was just that meaningful risk of opening up. And it feels like a risk because it feels really, really vulnerable.
00:47:56
Speaker
But it was meaningful risk. So anxiety said don't do it, but then I reminded anxiety, oh, this is actually a really meaningful risk, okay? And so taking that part with me to say, hey, I'm having these thoughts and they're like really disturbing and distressing. And for someone else to be like, oh my gosh, you too, right? Or you're not alone, let's get support, right?
00:48:19
Speaker
Well, we appreciate you so much opening up with us today. And yeah, I mean, again, you sharing your story, you're really creating that that ability for the rest of us to open up. And then like you said, to kind of approach all of it with more curiosity if we're willing to recognize it. So
00:48:36
Speaker
We can't thank you enough for that work that you're doing for us, for other moms. We mentioned before too that you're doing it all. You have your private practice, you have different teaching platforms, you have your podcasts, your awesome social media. So before we go, can you just let people know where's the best place to find you online? Yeah. Yeah. So Instagram at Dr. Cassidy, my podcasts on all
00:49:00
Speaker
you know, places you can stream podcasts is called Holding Space. And then my website, drcassidymft.com. And we provide, I have a group practice and we provide therapy for parents in the state of California. And so yeah, I think that the website's the best place to go because then you can find all the things from there. So drcassidymft.com.
00:49:24
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week, so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing.
00:49:43
Speaker
Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned. We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the Gram and TikTok, plus go to bloomafterbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.