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11. Hey Dads: What I Wish I Knew, with Sean Daggett
176 Plays1 year ago
In this week's episode, Rachel invites you into an intimate conversation she has with her husband and father of two, Sean Daggett. He shares a bit about what he learned from entering fatherhood; specifically what he wishes he had known in order to be better prepared for the vulnerable period of postpartum.
This is a good one to share with a new or expecting dad!
HUGE gratitude to ALL the men out there who are being change-makers and cycle breakers!!
Links and resources mentioned in the episode:
Postpartum Mental Health Help for Dads
Our Free Guide to Addressing Resentment in Your Relationship After Baby
Why We Can't Ignore Dad's Mental Health
You can learn more about Rachel's California-based group therapy practice and how you can work with her at www.racheldaggettlmft.com or on instagram @rachelscouch
If you enjoyed this episode and appreciate what we share here, we would be so honored if you shared the show and tagged us, @bloomafterbaby on Instagram so that we can see it and connect with our listeners!
We’d also be so grateful if you would rate and review our podcast in your favorite podcast app, because that’s the best way for a new podcast to get more people to listen so we can keep growing!
*Please note that this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for seeking individualized care from a mental health or medical professional*
Stay Tuned for more to come from Rachel Daggett and Dr Jen Jordan on all things motherhood and mental health - real mom experiences and insights from a licensed psychotherapist and medical doctor.
Learn more about us and access all of our courses, services, and free resources at bloomafterbaby.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Bloom After Baby Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in. Let's get to it.
Episode Format Explained
00:00:38
Speaker
All right. Hi, welcome back to a bit frazzled with Pull After Baby. This is your co-host Rachel Daggett, the therapist half of our duo here. And I have a little bit of a treat for you today for this episode. That's going to be a little bit of a different format than we usually do or than most podcasts do. The audio that's going to be in the bulk of this episode might not be great. So please bear with me, but I'm actually going to share with you
00:01:06
Speaker
a really transparent conversation that my husband Sean and I had on the couch in our living room one random night.
Conversation on Maternal Mental Health and Dads' Roles
00:01:15
Speaker
So I was asking him some questions for some of my own research because I've been thinking about this topic of maternal mental health and
00:01:24
Speaker
how dads and men need to be involved in this conversation. And so I was asking him what he learned from his postpartum experience and how his experience was as a new dad, both watching me and through the lens of my experience with postpartum depression and anxiety, and also some of his own postpartum anxiety and how that was for him witnessing me go through those things. And he started sharing and I asked him if I could record him because
00:01:52
Speaker
I was just so in love with everything he was saying and I felt like it was so good that I needed to record it. And then later he did give me permission to produce it as part of our podcast. We tried re-recording it later with better audio and everything, but it just didn't feel the same because what he had initially said was,
00:02:12
Speaker
So off the cuff and so from the heart that I decided to just upload it from my phone here onto my computer and I'm gonna use it as an episode and we will have more episodes where I'll interview Shawn and other dads and other
00:02:27
Speaker
experts in the field who are dads as well.
Importance of Partner Involvement in Mental Health Discussions
00:02:31
Speaker
But hopefully this just really honest conversation can help some of you as well. So I hope it is information that can be helpful for new dads, new moms, expecting parents and just also give you guys a little window into what it's like to be married to a therapist and to get used to talking about your feelings a lot.
00:02:54
Speaker
So this episode is with the one and only Shawn Michael Daggett, who, like I said, it also happens to be my very sweet, very handsome and willing husband and baby daddy of two. And we're talking about maternal mental health. Obviously, that's our main focus here at Bloom After Baby. But Jenna and I both feel really, really convicted about
00:03:18
Speaker
They need to involve our partners and the voices of dads and men in this conversation, and joining them in this work to improve maternal mental health and improve awareness in education and proactive care for everybody postpartum. And in this work, maternal mental health is and involves the health of the full entire family, which obviously also includes the dad. The transformation to motherhood involves your partner on every level,
00:03:47
Speaker
And we really want to work at spreading the knowledge, not only to moms and women, but also to fathers and men so that they can be better equipped to support their partners in postpartum and also to navigate the transition themselves because it is a wholly transformative time for everybody, including you guys.
00:04:06
Speaker
So I do want to say before I start rolling his recording, I do want to say that I know Sean, it's not always easy being married to a therapist. And you really leaned into that role. You've gotten kind of used to being psychoanalyzed and you've gotten really good at psychoanalyzing me back and playing the game right back at me.
00:04:27
Speaker
And I'm so blessed and lucky because you really leaned into this and gotten so good at being in your feelings and communicating your feelings. And I'm pretty sure at this point, you are a little bit of a better communicator in many ways than I am. And I learned so, so much from you on this journey.
00:04:45
Speaker
You're such a good role model, such a good dad, and I love that you are willing to put this on our podcast to help shed some light on the experience of being a new dad and to also show that it's okay and it's safe to be vulnerable even if you're a sports-loving guy's guy. So Sean is really used to having a lot of these conversations with me
00:05:10
Speaker
in either the comfort of our living room or maybe on a date night. But talking about this stuff in this public way and putting it on our podcast is something that he initially was a little nervous about and he really wasn't sure if he was going to be comfortable with it. And so I just want to say I really, really appreciate your vulnerability and hopefully this can help some other dads get in touch with their feelings too.
Sean's Postpartum Experience as a New Dad
00:05:35
Speaker
And also give you moms an idea of
00:05:38
Speaker
the kinds of conversations to have with your hubbies to get this communication rolling and to really support each other in this process of becoming parents together. So without further ado, let's roll. So when I had this conversation with Sean, my initial question to him was,
00:05:58
Speaker
What do you wish you knew before we had our first? So about three or four years ago before we had our first baby, we have been married for seven years now. We were having this conversation on a normal weeknight after surviving another rough bedtime with our three-year-old and eight-month-old. And this is how he responded to my question, what do you wish you had known before we had our first baby?
00:06:24
Speaker
I wish I had just knew the absolute level that you could reach as a mom, biologically, mentally, physically, all the things that you could pour into that baby and what that toll was on your body and how much I, no matter what I did, could never fully alleviate that from you. No matter how many wake-ups in the night, no matter how many times
00:06:47
Speaker
I would make breakfast, watch the baby so you could nap through the day. I knew it was helpful, but I quickly realized it was uphill battle and it felt defeating at times because I wanted to do everything I could to help you build your strength every day, every hour, every day. It was those first few weeks, months were tough.
00:07:07
Speaker
I just wish I knew the full magnitude of all that. Not that I was discouraged when I said defeated, but just I wish I would have been able to take it more day by day and just realize, keep doing what I'm doing and stay the course. But I think through that, I wish I kind of would have taken more time off. Four weeks, I thought it was going to take two weeks. And then I took four weeks. And then that felt like, thankfully, we had COVID and I was basically home after that.
00:07:37
Speaker
for the foreseeable future, but yeah. You just take for granted, I know you did a post about this, that you're gonna bounce back and go back to your normal programming, and this is not the case, whether it's work-wise or relationship-wise, it's just forever altered, and so.
00:07:55
Speaker
just conceptually you understand that but until you like live it you don't understand all the implications and I just definitely wish I had a grasp on that second time around obviously different because you have different challenges
00:08:14
Speaker
But then you realize how much you're not the MVP, although you're doing all you can. Mom was always going to be the single most important provider for that baby. There's a lot of things you can do to help. I just wish I knew the intersect of all those things. So I guess two, there's that just more just practical sense, but then just also the impact of that on your mental health.
00:08:35
Speaker
I don't know, it didn't occur to me. You've had waves of depression for a long time, but it didn't occur to me how much that could again hit you deeper or evolve or change. If the weather it, support, be there for you is definitely a mental grind from the beginning. And then I wish I was as a result of knowing more about that. I wish I
00:09:05
Speaker
didn't let you go back to work so soon. I thought you needed that. And I kind of let it happen because I thought you needed that to feel like yourself again. But we were kind of dumb and naive in the first round. Only, what, six weeks in? You were on that laptop with the baby on you? Yeah, that was way too soon. And I wouldn't have let you do that.
00:09:34
Speaker
You're doing things that everything are helpful, like, okay, encouraging you in that moment because ICU is wanting to be you and maintaining you while having this baby, but it was way too young and fragile at the time for you to be messing around with that. And that probably took away from some of your bonding with Reed.
00:09:52
Speaker
that is ultimately, it's fine and you make up for that over time, but I know that you missed that opportunity and certainly didn't help with your, again, the impact of your just mental health in general. I was taking on far too much at once. I mean, I wish I just pressed harder to not let you do that. I'm sure I said stuff like, this is probably, it's one thing to start ramping up your practice again, but to be teaching three classes at Pepperdine, you're crazy.
00:10:23
Speaker
What changed about our relationship that you didn't expect? Yeah I mean I think I don't know that I didn't expect it but I think again until you go through it you just don't realize how much you're going to miss the ability to be spontaneous or we used to do a lot of fun travel and we used to plan it in advance and look it would be something we look for like every six months we'd
00:10:44
Speaker
We look forward to some adventure together, whether it was to Europe or Hawaii or the mountains. We would always go somewhere, at least two times a year. And not having that ability to be spontaneous and escape together and connect, you never understand fully how much that will impact you until you live it. But yeah, that was a big thing.
00:11:06
Speaker
this simple night of dinner out which we got to do periodically once COVID alleviated with your mom being here but not being able to go somewhere for a week just you and I out of the blue but oh I guess
00:11:22
Speaker
Maybe part of that is you're not as nimble. You have an anchor now, different than Murphy, easy to get him situated somewhere. But then when you leave your kids, you don't actually leave your kids. You leave them physically, but not mentally. That's another thing you don't realize.
Navigating Postpartum Mental Health Challenges
00:11:39
Speaker
You go to connect, but there's a pull on you subconsciously or consciously. Thinking about them, worrying about them.
00:11:46
Speaker
I used to fly all the time for work. All the time. Short, domestic flights, long international flights, the whole thing. It was just like second nature to me, navigating airports. But those first flights that you take, when you got a young one at home, it's just a different feeling. When you leave them behind, you don't actually leave them and you're thinking about them.
00:12:10
Speaker
You think about, like, gosh, hope nothing happens to us because we're both gone and he's there. And so it's just that gravitational pull of your mind that moms have, obviously, like, at an exponential level for their young violent.
00:12:27
Speaker
definitely didn't realize how much I would feel that too. When we knew he was in good hands, just going out for a night, I think we got used to that, like a dinner or whatever, but going somewhere for multiple nights, like it was hard not to just think about him and want to hear his voice or hope he's okay and you can't fully unplug and connect. Okay, we'll have some follow-up questions.
00:12:49
Speaker
This was something I didn't expect either. It was for my question to turn on the follow-up questions. If we're talking about things that I wish I would have known, boy. So did you, in the early days, did you feel defeated because you realized that you weren't as useful as you thought you would be or feel? Or because there were things I did or said that made you feel defeated?
00:13:15
Speaker
I don't think it was either. It was more about, I mean I think we had a pretty, I think we're always a great team and we're always supportive of each other and we're both a get it done type and we love that kid to death. But I think both of us just probably
00:13:31
Speaker
didn't realize the level of exhaustion that we would reach, you especially, just knowing that there's just more biologically, physically, emotionally that moms provide, but I more defeated in the sense of like,
00:13:48
Speaker
There was nothing I could do to help you. I couldn't help you, but I couldn't fully get you back to yourself. It was going to be time. Time was the only thing that would get you back to yourself. I couldn't fix it. But like I said, the only thing that was going to heal it was time. I could help.
00:14:12
Speaker
you get there and hopefully minimize all the things that you went through during that vulnerable time. But that was just more of the combination of I couldn't fix it no matter what I did. It was just going to be hard. And we're burning the candle on both ends because I'm still working. You tried to start working again. You did. You dove into it really fast. And we were in the middle of COVID and just
00:14:39
Speaker
One day after the next, it was just a slog. So that was just defeating itself as the landscape of the world at that point. You wish you would have known or better understood the toll it would take on me, mentally and physically.
00:14:56
Speaker
And I've said the magnitude of it. Yeah, and the degree at which, no matter what I did, I couldn't change it. So that I could have probably been more at peace knowing that I'm doing all I can. And you're doing what you need to do. We're going to support each other. But I'm sure there was definitely times where it was like, gosh, I feel like there's...
00:15:14
Speaker
nothing else I can do to fix it. And I'm also now running on empty and trying to juggle. It's more of a, just knowing that A, it's gonna be a rough, probably say the first six months, I would say, and then it starts to level off a little.
00:15:31
Speaker
at least for the routine. Still hard and draining for mom because you have another six months of breastfeeding and pumping and all that. And I talked high level, but just those little things, just how tedious and obstructive breastfeeding and pumping and all the things that you have to do around the clock that I can't do. I can't pump for you. I could do the nighttime feeds or I could feed the baby with the milk.
00:15:56
Speaker
but I can't pump for you, I can't breastfeed the baby. So there's definitely, you just feel like there's stuff that you can't do. You do all you can do. But just, again, being at peace with knowing that you're doing all you can do, checking in, asking what you need, all those things.
00:16:15
Speaker
And then knowing that it's time, it's four to six months to get a routine. You let going into it. In every situation it's different, but typically four to six months to getting a more steady routine. And then the latter six months of that first year, everyone's a little bit more rejuvenated and you feel empowered by the routine. But you just don't, you don't know what you don't know. And so it's like, what is there end in sight here? You're just navigating uncharted territory.
00:16:45
Speaker
So like I mentioned at the beginning, that was a very candid conversation that we were having, a little peek into types of conversations that we have pretty often. I highly encourage you to have these conversations with your partner, be curious about what their experience is. Dr. Jen did a post about this recently that will
00:17:06
Speaker
keep bringing up but dad's experience postpartum depression and anxiety as well. I'm actually going to have a follow-up episode with Sean again later on about his experience with anxiety and fatherhood and how his anxiety has really spiked since having kids and how he's navigated that.
00:17:27
Speaker
So thank you so much for listening. I hope this brought some insight into what postpartum could be like for those of you who are expecting our new dads. Hopefully you can normalize some of your experience. We did go on to talk more about how the experience was and can be really defeating because
00:17:49
Speaker
I think Sean mentioned that he couldn't fix it.
Emphasizing Open Communication for Postpartum Journey
00:17:52
Speaker
And I was obviously struggling a lot in postpartum, emotionally with sleep deprivation. And it took us a while to get into a groove where I was being really honest with him about what I was experiencing and what I was needing and not expecting him to mind read what I was going through. And he also had to get really good at consistently checking in with me so that he knew what he needed to be doing.
00:18:16
Speaker
to help me and vice versa, right? Like I was also checking in with him on how he was doing. And so really learning that it's a, like I said, wholly transformative for everybody and you really need to be on the same page and be supporting one another through it. And I know a lot of dads do struggle with that initial phase with the newborn till they feel a little bit out of their comfort zones.
00:18:39
Speaker
And maybe they don't feel as useful and are struggling with acting like they can come in and fix it and problem solve. So it's a very common experience to have. And like I said, I'm going to have another conversation with Sean along these lines where we record it officially and so the audio will be a little bit better. But I really just wanted to share what he said on that.
00:19:03
Speaker
random night because I felt that it was really valuable and beautiful. And thank you again, Sean, for being willing to be open and vulnerable and help us spread this awareness and to normalize these experiences for both moms and dads. And thank you for giving me the permission to share this. And thank you guys so much for being here and for listening. And I will be putting some resources for dads
00:19:30
Speaker
in the show notes here as well as our free guide to ending the resentment cycle because that is a big thing that comes up in partnerships after baby.
Conclusion and Resources for Parents
00:19:40
Speaker
Thanks guys.
00:19:43
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week, so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned.
00:20:06
Speaker
We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the Gram and TikTok, plus go to bloomafterbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.