Transcript
Speaker: You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
Speaker: Thanks so much for tuning in. Let's get to it. Hey guys, this is Rachel today. We have the honor of having Leora Robles, International Board Certified Lactation Consultant, IBCLC, and owner of the Breastfeeding Center of Orange County here with us today.
Speaker: Um, a little bit of context for how this combo and collab came to be. I first met a newly aura through my own breastfeeding journey. She supported and helped me through my feeding both my babies, Reed, who is now four years old and Blake who just turned one.
Speaker: And if you have had a baby before, you know just how heavy, hard, confusing, painful, lots of things the feeding journey can feel with your little one. I feel really, really passionate about connecting new mamas with the support that is out there to help with all of these little
Speaker: Things that come up in motherhood that you may not realize will come up or may not realize you will need more help with. I fully wholeheartedly believe that having the right support system is a huge invaluable aspect of improving maternal mental health outcomes. So I was really honored and grateful that Leora came on.
Speaker: The podcast today and shared a little bit about how a lactation consultant or lactation support can help you. She gives a little bit of tips on things like the best types of breastfeeding pill to look for the best type of pump to have.
Speaker: We don't go into this in the conversation, but she gives so much helpful information on things like supplements and what to look for a good latch. Things like that on her Instagram and on her website, which I have linked here in the show notes. But I think one of the things I love most about Leora is she has such a non -shaming and non -judgmental approach towards breastfeeding and feeding in general.
Speaker: She'll still hear her say on here that when she's running her prenatal breastfeeding support groups, she says, Hi, I'm a lactation consultant and I don't care how you choose to feed your baby or something along those lines. I love that she gives, you know, just the permission and validation that breastfeeding is not and may not be for everybody and that that is okay to recognize too.
Speaker: I'm not going to say too much more in this pre -roll because the conversation kind of speaks for itself, but I'm so excited for you to hear from her, for you to feel a little bit more informed and better prepared for your breastfeeding journey if you are pregnant or postpartum. And I am just grateful to you for being here and listening and helping us spread this information and support to more moms.
Speaker: If you haven't already, please hop onto Instagram and follow us at bloom after baby. That's our handle and click subscribe on our podcast. And if you're on Apple, you should be able to leave a review in the app there and that would help us out a ton. So let's jump in Leora.
Speaker: Yeah, I think we're good. So thank you, it's so good to see you, first of all. It's good to see you too. How are you doing? I'm good, I'm good. Blake is, she's about to turn one. It's crazy, it's so crazy. Way too fast. I know, I know. You have two boys or one? I have three boys. Oh, three. Okay, how old are they? They're seven, nine and 17. Oh my gosh, yeah. We're in like every stage all the time.
Speaker: And then you're in, you're also in the newborn baby stage through work all the time. I know, which like gets my fill and keeps me from wanting more. So that's perfect. That's great. Oh, that is wonderful. I have been listening to your podcast and it's awesome. Thank you. That means a lot. I really, really love it. Thank you. And I'm not just saying that. I really think it's great and just so real.
Speaker: And I think that's so important. Thank you. That really does mean a lot. I love it. Yeah. We're like, Jen and I, it's, it's a lot. Like we're both working moms and then trying to build this and neither of us are very tech savvy and neither of us have ever done in a podcast or been trying to do the Instagram thing either. So definitely a steep learning curve, but our main point in doing all of this is just to put authenticity out there, to put information out there, but.
Speaker: more than anything to just be supportive and normalizing of the struggle that can be and all the different things that can come up in pregnancy and postpartum for mamas. And yeah, so I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. And there's so much.
Speaker: And I know how much work it is to do stuff like this. So yeah, I know you do. I see that end of it. And I know it's a lot, but I think you guys are doing a great job. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I will carry that with me. So speaking of that, tell our listeners what you do, who you are and what services you provide. Yeah. So my name is Leora Robles. I am an IBCLC.
Speaker: as a board certified lactation consultant. So we at the breastfeeding center support parents from the time that they decide that they want to breastfeed or even if they're still exploring what feeding options are all the way through, you know, the time that they're ready to lean. And that could be at any point because your body's going to make milk, whether you're planning to breastfeed or not. So.
Speaker: for every birthing parent at some point, they kind of need to manage this milk, right? That happens no matter what their feeding plan is. So I have three boys, right? And I had a very different feeding journey with each of them. And that experience or that struggle, I should say, kind of like lit this passion of mine to help other people through those same challenges because we all struggle with feet in one way or another.
Speaker: And it's such a vulnerable time for us that if I can just lessen that stress or burden just a little bit, it's so inspiring and rewarding for me.
Speaker: And so yeah, that's kind of how I got to doing what I do. I don't know a ton about your own personal journey into this. I'm excited to hear that and learn a little bit more about that. So what support did you have or not have that like looking back you wished you'd had at the time? Yeah. So my oldest is 17. And so
Speaker: 18 years ago when I was pregnant with him, I had a couple close friends who were having kids and they were breastfeeding. And I was like, wow, that looks great. I think I'll do that too. And he was born and within 24 hours I was in so much pain. My nipples were cracked. They were bleeding. I was in so much pain. I gave birth at a hospital and the hospital lactation consultant stopped by a few times.
Speaker: they gave me a nipple shield at some point and kind of just sent me home. And I continued to try, but I was in so much pain. And I didn't even know that lactation support existed outside the hospital. I didn't have any friends who needed help or who told me they got help. So I just kind of assumed it should work, right? What about breastfeeding? Shouldn't work. This is like the way I'm supposed to be.
Speaker: And it was about the middle of the night, night five, that Noah woke up crying and I turned to my husband. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I was like, I love him, but I hate him. Like this, like I'm not in a good spot. And so I told him that I was like, go downstairs, make the bottle of formula. I don't even care. I'm going to pump because my breasts feel like they're going to explode. And I pumped and they were actually like bright red milk.
Speaker: probably from all the bleeding I was happening. And I was just like, oh my gosh, what is going on? And from that moment on, I never latched him again. I ended up exclusively pumping. I was blessed with a lot of milk, so that worked out well for me. It was easy, and that's what I did. For around, I think, seven or eight months, I just exclusively pumped.
Speaker: And at that time, I felt a little defeated. I remember going to like pediatrician's appointments and they'd say, oh, how is he breastfeeding? And I would say, well, kind of like I'm pumping. And I remember just feeling like I always kind of didn't give myself, I didn't allow myself to say, yes, I'm breastfeeding. Like I felt like I wasn't fully. Anyway, so moving forward, looking back at that, I say that was not fair.
Speaker: me. I still provided breast milk to my child and I was still breastfeeding. So we had a number of years of unexplained infertility between our first and second, which is why we have an almost eight year gap between them. And so I had a lot of time to process that and think, what do I want the second time around? And so a lot of that was finding all this like lactation support that existed outside of leaving the hospital.
Speaker: So I read a lot of books and like I took a class, which I didn't do the first time. And Ari, my second, was born a few weeks early. And sure enough, we had challenges, right? Because like I said, it's hard for everyone really. It's so rare to find somebody who says, oh, everything was so easy.
Speaker: But I knew that I can go get support. And that's what I did. A week in, I was like, I'm going to go see somebody. And I did. And it's not that everything was fixed right away. But knowing that I had somebody that is going to check in with me in a couple days and was going to change my plan if I wasn't reaching my goals yet just kept me going.
Speaker: And yeah, after a few weeks, things got a lot better. And I ended up exclusively breastfeeding him for like almost 18 months. And so such a different experience, right? Between my first and my second. And really, it had nothing to do with my experience. It just had to do with having
Speaker: Having somebody that was like my cheerleader that was like, we'll keep working on this. We'll keep figuring it out. And that was it. It like got me over the hump. And then I had this beautiful breastfeeding journey. And my third came and things went much smoother with him. Every baby's different. Every diet's different. All of that.
Speaker: Yeah, so that that's kind of my journey. And so ironically, my sister had her first baby three months after I had my third. And I was like, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna help you. This is amazing. She had a home birth, all these different things. But she was wise enough to bring in a lactation consultant to her home, like right away. And so I observed this support that I never had. So like,
Speaker: personal in your home, like right after a baby was born. I was like, that's amazing. Oh my gosh, this should, everybody should have this. And yeah, I was like, I think I need to like make a change in what I do. Okay. And that, so that was when you decided to do this as a career. Yeah. So I have the three kids and I went back to school.
Speaker: Oh my gosh. I know. First of all, thank you for sharing that. It's so beautiful. And it's such a just perfect observation of how things can go differently when you have the support versus when you don't. It's not about having the right tools necessarily, it's just having somebody who can walk alongside you and love you and nurture you through that process.
Speaker: And to like, like, for me, and I think probably a lot of other moms, it's also just having that load off. Okay, I don't have to figure this out by myself. Somebody can tell me what I can do differently. I don't need to sit on Google at two o 'clock in the morning researching how often I should be pumping or how to know when my baby's had enough. I can have Leora, for me, tell me that. And so I can just focus on resting and recovering and being with my baby.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. And let having a professional be able to say, I will let you know if there's a problem. I'm not going to let your baby starve. I'm not going to let your baby suffer. So kind of guiding to what's normal, what's not normal, just to take that pressure off. Gosh, parents have so much pressure. Yeah. So much. So much. Yes.
Speaker: And, and then I think too, this is something I've, I've talked a lot about with friends who, who've gone through becoming a mother around similar timeframe is that idea that it will just come naturally. Don't worry. You don't need all that extra stuff. Like breastfeeding is what your body is supposed to do. It will just happen if you relax and let it happen. Right. And that's just not true. It just isn't. And so then there's so much shame in that when things, when problems do come up and it's like, Oh yeah. Right.
Speaker: What's wrong with me? What's wrong with my body? Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for sharing your personal journey. That's beautiful. Tell me really quickly, so people can know the difference too, when they are looking for lactation support, what is the difference between like someone who says I'm a lactation consultant versus an IBCLC? Right. So anybody can call themselves a lactation consultant. There's no regulation about who can be a lactation consultant.
Speaker: And there are many different types of like certifications you can get in the lactation world. So there are like certified lactation educators or certified lactation counselors. And those are courses that are pretty simple to sign up for and to complete. And those types of certifications are excellent for people who want to provide like basic lactation education.
Speaker: or support, they are very valuable for those things. But the only lactation certification that really has more of a thorough education and like clinical experience to assess and support more like
Speaker: more challenging cases are is going to be the IBCLC certification, which is an international board certified lactation consultant. So that's the IBCLC. And that's the one if you are having any pain, any of your babies that has a medical condition is not gaining weight appropriately, has any like symptoms of pain, then that's really who you want to see.
Speaker: So they can really do deep assessments on both parent and baby to really dive deep into figuring out what's the root cause of what is going on. So if it's kind of beyond just I need some kind of help with different positions or I need to know like how much my baby should be feeding, how often like all that basic stuff. Most people with a lactation credential in some way can help with that. But if you're having continued challenges or pain in any way,
Speaker: you want to see an IBC. Okay, that's really helpful. I will say though too, that even if, I mean, obviously my only experience personally with this is working with you and you're obviously an IBC LC, but I feel like even I didn't, let me back up.
Speaker: I didn't know that there were underlying problems and I wasn't having pain necessarily, but I'm grateful that I had you and that you are board certified because you were able to come in and help me get ahead of the underlying issues which were oral ties for both my kids that I wouldn't have known and that maybe someone who isn't board certified wouldn't have had that expertise or ability to assess
Speaker: on that deep level and then refer me to where I needed to go. True. I mean, and hopefully those people know what their scope of practice is and can identify when something is happening that is beyond their scope. But what I'll say is, even if they don't, and this is true for even an IVCLC, as I would assume even a therapist, right? If you're not finding the support you need with that person, go somewhere else.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. So the experience that you have with one lactation consultant, IBCLC, like any provider, that person may not be the right fit for you, regardless of what their credentials are. Right. So if you're seeing somebody and you're just not finding the help you need, or you're just not improving or you're not reaching your goals, go find, go see someone else. There's no limit to what, to what you can do. And so that's, I think, a good way to kind of get around
Speaker: Yes. And that's so true. And like you said, true for any type of support in any profession. Is it true that breastfeeding shouldn't be painful? I love this question. I love it because I hear lactation consultants say breastfeeding should never hurt. And if you're having pain, then something's wrong and you need to fix it.
Speaker: And I think that's true to an extent, but it's not 100 % true. And I feel like for 99 % of parents who are breastfeeding at some point in their feeding journey and usually in the first week, there is discomfort. I think we're using a very sensitive part of our body in a way we're not used to over and over and over and over again.
Speaker: And there's like an acclimation period so i don't want parents to feel like if they're having any type of discomfort or tenderness that something is wrong it's to be expected but how do we figure out what's normal and what's a problem.
Speaker: So I would say any pain that gets increasingly worse as the feed goes on is not really good. Anything that's beyond just a little bit of tenderness since in the first like 30 seconds, I would say we should look at that and anything that's causing damage to your nipples.
Speaker: So if you're having any cracks, bleeding, pinched nipples, then yes, we should definitely get assessed. But if you're just feeling a little bit of sensitivity when baby first latches, that goes away within 20 to 30 seconds. The rest of the feed is comfortable. You're not having any pain in between feeds. Then most likely that is normal and we will see that resolve within the first one to two weeks.
Speaker: Does that make sense? Yes, it makes a ton of sense and it is very helpful because I do feel like the messaging is a little bit black and white. If you're having any pain at all, and also pain is subjective, then something's wrong, right? Look, it never hurts to get help. It never hurts to see somebody. I tell parents, you can come see me if literally everything is going perfect. In your mind, come see us.
Speaker: Yes, because even if there's not something for us to fix, there is education to have, right? Why is your baby doing this at this time? What can we expect to happen in the next week or two? Like there's always support that
Speaker: That is helpful regardless if there is a problem to be fixed in that moment. But if somebody is trying to identify, is this pain normal or not? I think anything that lasts into a feed or is hurting in between feeds that that's your good indicator. Okay. Let's go check this out.
Speaker: Okay, okay, awesome. Yeah, and I totally agree. I think everyone could benefit for sure. I mean, now I'm rocking my brain and thinking about some of the little things that like you helped me with, okay, what to do if I'm in gorge or if I have clogged ducts or if I'm on the edge of possible mastitis and even to know how or how to know if that's happening. So again, to get ahead of that. So then I knew what to do the following week when that started happening. And then even one question that I think
Speaker: probably most moms ask themselves, it is, okay, how often and how long am I supposed to feed them for? And I remember a second time around, you were at our house, I had Blake, she was like, probably four days old or something. And the control freak in me was like, but Leora, but how long do I set my timer for? Every time I'm feeding, I need you to tell me, is it 10 minutes, 15? And I'd been through it before, you'd already taught me this. But
Speaker: I especially when you're in such a vulnerable place and you you're seeking control in any way right and you remember you said let's not and you're just so gentle way let's not think so much about the time the clock yeah but more about what cues she's giving you she'll tell you and she's
Speaker: had enough and it's okay to let go. And that gave me permission to eventually I got rid of my little timer app and that felt so liberating. But little things like that that you wouldn't necessarily think, oh, this is a problem I need help with, but it's so supportive and helpful. I'm glad you felt that relief. And I think this is where just kind of getting like general education
Speaker: can somewhat be hurtful because if you went online and like Googled, like how long should my baby feed or how often should my baby feed? You're going to get, your baby should feed eight to 12 times a day for about like 20 to 30 minutes total or 15 minutes per side, right? And while that could be true for some babies, it may not be the
Speaker: situation for others. So now you have a mom who's, well, my baby only feeds for eight minutes. Are they not getting enough or something wrong? Or do I not have enough milk? And we start to spiral because of this general recommendation that was made based off of the average, right? And this is where I think having somebody specifically looking at you and your baby
Speaker: in your situation is so helpful because I may not have made that same recommendation to my next consult after you.
Speaker: because that situation could have been totally different. Babies for that baby, they do need to make sure they're on for longer. It's where we get into trouble with Google because Google isn't looking at you and your baby. They're taking averages of hundreds of thousands of breastfeeding people.
Speaker: So that is one unique thing. And we're also one of the only professions that has two patients, right? Most like doctors, even if you go to your pediatrician or your OB, they're only looking at one of you. The OB or the midwife is about the mom, pediatrician is about the baby, ones that like look at you guys as individuals and as a dyad.
Speaker: And it's the, we're managing three people. Yeah. And one can affect the other, right? So maybe like an OB or midwife might look at mom and be like, you have a great milk supply. Your milk has volume. You have plenty of milk. Just like follow baby's cues. No problem. Then maybe we have a baby who does have oral ties.
Speaker: or has dysfunction, right? And you can't actually pull that milk out that mom has. So now that information for that baby may actually be harmful. Yeah. Right. Because just because mom has a lot of milk, we can't make the assumption that baby's going to have this like amazing feed. And so this is where like having somebody on your team looking at your specific situation for both the parent, the baby and how they come together.
Speaker: is so important and recommendations change based on any of the others. That's so beautiful. I have never thought about it that way. That's so cool. It's very cool. And it's a lot. Yeah, a lot. Oh, totally. This is why our appointments are 90 minutes long. Yes. Right. Yes.
Speaker: This this is why like we can't just take a quick look and give a recommendation because there's so much information to gather on these two individuals. So we're going to gather all of that. And we need to see, OK, now, how does this come together and assess that? And now what are your what are the symptoms and what can we recommend to help get you closer to your goal? Right.
Speaker: And I'm glad the word goal came up because that matters also in what our recommendation is. So if you have a friend that says to you, oh, well, I just did this, I started bottle feeding like early on, or I started pumping early on, you should do that. Well, maybe her goal is different than what your goal is, right? Do you plan to introduce bottles? Do you want to pump? Do you plan to go back to work? At what point? All of that will change what I'm recommending to you.
Speaker: And so it's such an individualized thing. It is. And these are things too that most moms don't even realize they need to be thinking about in those early stages. And then it's empowering to have a professional come in and help you figure out those answers instead of you thinking, having it in the back of your head and feeling anxious about what am I going to do, but not having any answer and just kind of like not doing anything with that anxiety.
Speaker: Yeah. We, we can help you in our minds. We're always like thinking about how old is the baby and what are some of the things that we need to start thinking about if this is part of the plan in the future. Yes. So like a big one is like returning to work, or even if you're not returning to work, if you just want to be away from your child at any point in breastfeeding journey, like most, most people, then we need to talk about when is the appropriate time to introduce a bottle.
Speaker: because we want to support your goals to breastfeed, but we also want you at a few months down the road to have that flexibility to go back to work or go on a vacation or go on a date night, whatever it is. So we're going to think for you, okay, what is the right timing for us to implement some pumping and bottle feeding?
Speaker: to also support that future goal that you have. I don't want you to come back in like a few months and you're like, my baby won't take a bottle and I'm stuck. And I feel so stressed. I can't go back to work. I can't go away. So we're also trying to like foreshadow how to prevent future problems. Kind of like you said about the mastitis. Yeah. Right. Sometimes like we see that we're looking at like a supply.
Speaker: and breasts and I'm just like, oh, something is brewing here. And so let us do that hard work for you. You don't have to figure it all out on your own when there are people who can take that burden from you.
Speaker: And I imagine in my mind, like a mom who after a number of months is going back to work and is in that position that you just referred to of my baby won't take a bottle, what do I do? And I know from a mental health perspective, how, oh my gosh, just how debilitating that anxiety can be and how much, how many bigger issues that could cause for somebody.
Speaker: And so will you talk a little bit about what is the intersect you see in your work with moms of how this support can directly influence and improve mental health outcomes for moms?
Speaker: It's hard for me to say because I don't know what I don't know, right? So for the folks that don't get the support, I don't know what their trajectory is. But what I can say is the number of times that I've heard families say, I feel so much better after our time together.
Speaker: I feel like I have a plan or I feel okay. I guess like things are going well when I thought that because my baby only fed for six minutes for the last week, everything was going downhill. I think that reassurance just alleviates so much stress and anxiety and concern and overwhelm. So one of the things we do at the breastfeeding center is we have a support group called Mamba's Milk Club and
Speaker: It's literally for those moms that just need a little bit of reassurance. I'm not having major problems, but I still am not feeling confident that everything is great. So come in, see other parents who are wondering the exact same thing.
Speaker: and know that you're not the only one. Talk to a lactation consultant and ask your questions. We always have a pediatric scale available for a weight check because that weight gain is like the best reassurance, right? When you need your baby gaining weight, you're like, okay, I guess they are getting what they need, right? Even though things have changed, which they will. I think just everybody needs that reassurance, that kind of check -in, things are still on track.
Speaker: Because inconsistency with breastfeeding is so consistent. You have to expect it to be inconsistent. And I think for some people, especially like we're using the apps and we're tracking so much. And when we see a change, we stress like what's wrong. Like why did they not feed as many times or for as long or why did they wake up more often? And we always blame ourselves. Yeah.
Speaker: It's always, I did something wrong. I don't have enough milk. Right. What did I do differently? So I think to get together with a professional or other parents and just hear that we all, we all worry about these things and that's okay. We worry because we care and we're good friends. And then just to get that little check in, no, you're still on track. You're doing good.
Speaker: goes a long way for how we feel and then therefore our mental health. Such a long way, such a long way. Yeah, the overwhelm, the stress. And I mean, you have your own experience too as a data point. My experience was that so many of my clients as well, because the feeding relationship with your baby is
Speaker: It's obviously, there's a lot at stake and biologically we're wired to worry about it, right? Cause that's what keeps our baby alive. And so it's, it's heavy. It's heavy. And well, it's like the most important job in the entire world in that moment, right? It's just to make sure this little one is fed and healthy. Yeah. And it's, it feels like it's all on you.
Speaker: It is your sole responsibility, especially when you're breastfeeding. That's a lot of weight. It's heavy to take on that responsibility. Yeah, it is. And it's not like you can ask someone else to breastfeed for you or pump for you. But when you have the support from someone like you, it's okay. I felt like I could give you some of my worry. I could hand it over to you and you could carry it for me or hold onto it for me.
Speaker: And I definitely felt like struggling with PPD both times. The first time around not connecting with you until three or four months in and then it was like damage control versus with Blake. I remember emailing you like two months before her due date. When can you come within 10 days of her being there?
Speaker: And it really helps like I saw the difference for me of being able to relinquish that control and get that reassurance and have those tools and not be getting mastitis every other week because if you're depressed if you keep getting physically sick, you're just gonna get more and more depressed. So yeah, I really
Speaker: really fully believe that what you're doing is obviously holds so much value for the feeding and for the baby's health and the mother's health and just their relationship together, but and also for maternal mental health outcomes. Thank you. Yeah. That makes me feel like good and just proud that like we can offer that just like emotional support in addition to a
Speaker: the clinical recommendations that we do. And I love being able to provide the time and space for families to get that, right? Because like we said, we're together for an hour or more, right? And we get to talk.
Speaker: and hear what's going on. And I think that's a big difference between some other types of providers who you have like your 10 minutes. And I think it's therapeutic just to have a listening ear, somebody who's been there who understands and whether it's like a one -on -one or a breastfeeding support group, which there's breastfeeding support groups. I mean, so many of them, they're invaluable to give yourself that space to know
Speaker: Yes, this is hard, but we're on track. We're not alone in this. I really liked, too, having the ability to involve Sean in it and get him closer to the process and just understanding what was going on and everything that goes into feeding a baby. I feel like it helps to give the non -birthing, non -breastfeeding partner that perspective of how stressful
Speaker: full it can be and how wrong how literally how much work goes into it. But also helped me and him be closer too, because I felt like he really understood what I was going through. And then you also could give him tips on you can do the bottle feeding and teaching him how to hold the bottle and all that stuff. So it's great for I think for couples as well. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up Sean, because that is another part of that support system that can really make our break.
Speaker: this experience. So surrounding yourself with people who support you in your goals, and are willing to are willing to allow you to do the hard things, but still be support. So I like I saw this meme once that said, just because I say it's hard doesn't mean I want to stop. And I think that's so good with breastfeeding.
Speaker: Because I think every breastfeeding parent at some point sat on their couch and was like, this is so hard. Oh my gosh, you want to feed again? Oh my gosh, you're still feeding. Oh my gosh, why won't you latch? But that doesn't mean we don't want to do it. I mean, for some parents that might be their choice and that's fine. But I think for others, I remember being like, this is so hard or I'm in pain or whatever it is. But I was asking for help to get through, not permission to stop.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. So I think having people in your circle who are like, you're doing such a great job, like for, for parents who, who do both come to consult and they understand the plan, the reminder of, Oh, remember, Leora recommended this, or sometimes I'll have, when parents are dealing with pain and we work on positioning and latching, sometimes I'll have the dad get up off the couch, step back and look. Yeah.
Speaker: like, do you see this position? She can't see this. So I want you to be her eyes from this perspective. And it's a simple thing. Tuck the tush in, early chin up. It's such a difference. So just having somebody who's like your cheerleader, even when it's hard, and that could be a partner, a grandparent, a friend, support group, whatever surrounding yourself with people who are like,
Speaker: You got this, you're doing great. I see how hard it is. So proud of you. Those encouraging words go such a long way. Absolutely. What? Let's see. You did have a question about products. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember thinking about it. I was like, there's not one product that is, you have to have this. This will make or break your success. I will say, there are breastfeeding pillows that I feel like are better than others.
Speaker: Something that will stay near your body that you're not fighting to keep close to you. So some of the pillows have buckles in the back versus others that don't. I think in general, I see more success with them, but there are some people that find other styles are better for their shape. So there's not really one, but it's just if you find yourself feeding your baby and fighting a pillow, it's not the right pillow.
Speaker: Your clothes should help you. You shouldn't have to like hold baby and pillow to make it work. And the other thing I'll say is I know right now, like the wearable hands -free pumps are really popular, but I don't recommend getting them as your primary pump. Like when you're pregnant and your insurance is allowing you to get a pump, I really recommend getting a good solid double electric pump.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. Most insurance companies are covering a spectra. That's what I would recommend right now because you never know what your pumping needs are going to be. Yeah. And if you need to pump early on, you want a really good double electric pump.
Speaker: The hands -free ones are just not usually as efficient at removing milk or not as efficient in establishing a milk supply. So if you find yourself separated from baby in the early weeks, then those pumps just don't do a good enough job, unfortunately. So I will say if you're like still planning on that, that would be a wise choice. So those are like my two. That's helpful. That kind of affects everybody at some point. Very true.
Speaker: This is something I didn't send you, but I thought about this morning that I really wanted to ask, just thinking about the magic of milk and the magic of breastfeeding and obviously the benefits of the nursing relationship for both mama and baby. What are some of your favorite little tidbit facts about what those benefits are and what breast milk has? I feel like it's liquid gold. Why is it so magical?
Speaker: I think the biggest thing is that it is made specifically for your baby. It's changing hour by hour, day by day, and depending on your environment,
Speaker: or what viruses you've come in contact with or your baby's come in contact with, your milk will change, right? So I think that's incredible because there's nothing else in the world that is tailor made like that. And if your baby goes to like daycare,
Speaker: They're exposed to whatever it is right in the air. But when they then breastfeed their saliva communicates with your body to then tell your brain, Hey, we've been exposed to this cold. Can you make some antibodies for me? And it will actually like change the milk. It is, it's just magical. I mean, how there's nothing else that does that. And I think that's so unique and special.
Speaker: to be able to provide something that unique. And that's just the milk. That doesn't even talk about like the experience of holding your little one like close to you many hours. And then we know that breastfeeding releases oxytocin. So oxytocin is like the love hormone, the feel good hormone, right? So besides getting to provide this like perfect nutrition for your baby, the act of breastfeeding even supports your like
Speaker: mental health and well be right through that oxytocin. So it's like this perfect kind of give and take. Yeah. And it's beautiful. It is. It's beautiful if it's like feeling good for you.
Speaker: And if it's not, it's okay to recognize that like I did. I say, this is like with my first, right? And I say to my husband still to this day, I'd say, I'm so grateful that I was able to recognize that I wasn't doing well.
Speaker: and be okay making a change. Because I think if I didn't stop, I think I would have spiraled. I think I would have been in a bad place. And I say to my husbands, it's scary to say, I can understand why people hurt their babies. That's how bad I was doing. So I thank God that I was able to recognize that.
Speaker: and put my breastfeeding desires aside for my own health and safety and my babies. And so that's why I say if it's working for you, that's amazing. And not to say if it's working for you. If it feels right to you, that's amazing. And if it doesn't, it's okay to say, this is not working for me. I need to make a change.
Speaker: Oh, so grateful to you for saying that and just for putting that out there. It's so important. And I always start off all of our breastfeeding 101 classes or prenatal classes by saying I'm a lactation consultant who doesn't care how you feed your baby. I love breastfeeding. I think it's great. And I had a good experience with it two out of three times. But I care more about that you feel supported along your journey, wherever that takes you.
Speaker: I want to provide you with evidence -based information. I want to provide you with my clinical lens and whatever recommendations I can make. But at the end of the day, it's your choice. And what feels right to you is the right choice. And there's just so much shame around like feeding. And I don't want anybody to feel that.
Speaker: And I never get that or got that from you at all, at all. So I'm grateful for that. Let's see. Ooh. Oh, one, okay, one more thing and then we can wrap up. The other thing about the relationship between mama and baby and nursing and milk and just like the brain of breast milk is the antibodies and all that. And then also the supply. Can you say a little bit about that? How does your body know how much milk to make?
Speaker: when to start producing less or more? Like how does that happen? I love that. So our bodies, like we mentioned before, will start to make milk for our babies during pregnancy. Right. And there's no like questionnaire. Do you want to breastfeed or do you not? Your body's just going to start making milk. So we know as early as about 16 weeks gestation,
Speaker: you'll start to produce colostrum. So early, really, really early on. And so your colostrum is like ready to go for your baby really at any point that they're born. So once baby is born and the placenta gets delivered, we have this huge hormone shift. And from that moment, your milk volume will start to slowly increase over the next, almost a week, but really four to five days.
Speaker: And so it's the actual delivery of the baby that kickstarts that. So I always empower parents by saying, you have milk right away because so many people are under the impression that they have to wait for their milk to come in. Yeah. Oh, you already have milk.
Speaker: And there are some 16 weeks in your pregnancy. And we know that babies' tummies are so tiny when they're born that they don't need large volumes of milk, right? The little tiny volumes of colostrum are so packed
Speaker: with everything that they need nutritionally, that it like fills them up. Now, because their tummies are small, they are feeding often, right? But that frequent stimulation of the breast is like the baby basically telling your body, I'm here and I'm going to need more. I'm here and I'm going to need more. Hey, guess what? An hour later, I'm here and I'm going to need more. And that frequent stimulation
Speaker: is what drives the increase in milk volume over the next few days. So for parents who deliver their baby and don't want to breastfeed, what is important is not to stimulate the breast, because that is what's going to basically not allow your brain to get messages of make more, rather they're going to get messages of, we're not really using it, so let's not make too much. And slowly the supply will dwindle.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. So for parents who are separated from their babies at birth, maybe baby has to go to the NICU. This is where pumping becomes so important in those early days, because we know that frequent regular breast stimulation in the first few days can play a huge impact on milk supply, not only in that moment, but for weeks and months to come. So we talked about earlier, like if there's any product recommendations,
Speaker: I was like, get a really good pump. Because if you need to pump in the early days, it's so crucial in getting that supply established that we don't want to lose even a few days using an inadequate pump. Okay.
Speaker: So around day four, usually most parents, I get messages of, Oh my gosh, my breasts are huge. Like what happened? And that's when that huge, like big transition takes place in volume, but it is a transition. Your milk hat, your baby has milk from day one in appropriate volumes, but they change really quickly. Right. We talked about that spec, these inconsistencies.
Speaker: And one of those inconsistencies are from their birthday to day seven, every day they demand almost what they need. So that change in our breasts is are quite, quite dramatic. And so, yes, quite the same beliefs, but it's helpful to know what to expect. Yes, definitely. And this is where I think maybe in one of your questions talked about what parents can do. And
Speaker: This is where taking a prenatal breastfeeding class or meeting with the last patient built in prenatally is so important.
Speaker: because otherwise you don't really know what to expect because even if you've been around breastfeeding and you've seen parents breastfeed, what happens in the first week is so unique to that first week. Any recommendations we're gonna make in that first week is never gonna really be made again, right? The volume expectations are completely different.
Speaker: babies like feeding kind of patterns and frequencies, stooling, right? They're poop, which is like been breastfeeding all go together. We're going to use that as a guide to kind of assess how things are going. That is only unique to the first week. And then it changes after that. But really understanding what to expect in the first 24 hours, the first few days, the first week can really get you through that initial hump.
Speaker: class get that's like the best thing you can do for yourself. Okay. So, okay. So in that vein, tell everybody a how they can find you if they're in the Orange County area, because you're based in Orange County. Yes. And, and then if they're in some other region, where's the best place to find a directory for IBC LCs? Yeah. So if you're in like Orange County, Southern California, where the breastfeeding center of Orange County,
Speaker: Our office is in Laguna Hills, California, but we do offer virtual support and home visits too in Orange County. We take many insurance plans, some HMO plans now too, but PPO. So that's really exciting. And the Lactation Network does a great job in trying to get insurance coverage for people. So that's a great resource.
Speaker: You can verify insurance coverage, like we're scheduled directly on our website, breastfeedoc .com. But you can also, if you're not in our area, you can go, you can find Laleche League. You can go to the lactation networks website. They can pair you with a lactation consultant. So there's lots of ways. Usually also your local hospitals will have like resource lists for you too. So lots of options for how to find support.
Speaker: You're welcome to reach out to us and we can help you find someone in your area too. We definitely do that a lot. Okay. Oh, that's good to know. So for anyone listening, I will link all of those things in the notes and also put Leora's website and Instagram and everything in there so you can contact her if you want help getting connected with somebody or to work with her or her team. And we're in a, our office is in a collaborative space where there's other providers like
Speaker: chiropractors, other OTs, massage therapists. We're very lucky in South Orange County to have so many groups. So really if you're looking for anybody
Speaker: don't hesitate to reach out to us. If you're in Orange County, we can connect you with someone. Definitely. Yeah, one -stop shop. I mean, so helpful. I would go with, like, see Danny. Danny's the chiropractor who's going to be on our podcast in a couple of weeks. And then we would pop in to see you for lactation, and then we'd go see Olivia for OT. Perfect. Yeah. It was so easy. Great.
Speaker: Well, thank you for your wisdom and your just your soul. You are doing so much and truly, truly, truly helping so many families and mamas and ways you don't even realize. So thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker: Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week, so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned.
Speaker: We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the gram and TikTok, plus go to bloomafterbaby .com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.
