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18. How to Surrender to the Pregnancy Experience, with Celynna Harnetiaux, LMFT
125 Plays1 year ago
Celynna Harnetiaux, LMFT, generously shares her experience of navigating mental health changes in pregnancy, and how she surrendered and relinquished control in the pregnancy & birth-preparation process.
You’ll also get some 🔥 hot tips for medication and non-medication ADHD & mental health management ✨
𝑾𝒆 𝒉𝒐𝒑𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒆𝒑𝒊𝒔𝒐𝒅𝒆 𝒘𝒊𝒍𝒍 𝒃𝒆 𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒐𝒖𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒊𝒏𝒈 & 𝒏𝒐𝒓𝒎𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒛𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒐𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒐𝒘𝒏 𝒆𝒙𝒑𝒆𝒓𝒊𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒔𝒑𝒂𝒓𝒌 𝒔𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒔𝒆𝒍𝒇-𝒊𝒏𝒔𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕 𝒂𝒓𝒐𝒖𝒏𝒅:
❥What impedes on your ability to ask for for and accept help
❥How you can better connect with and appreciate your partner through the challenges of new parenthood
❥Surrendering to the pregnancy and birth process
You can learn more about Celynna's private practice (in California) and how you can work her or her team, at www.celynnaharnetiauxtherapy.com
You can learn more about Rachel's California-based group therapy practice and how you can work with her at www.racheldaggettlmft.com or on instagram @rachelscouch
Links and resources from the episode:
Get Help - Postpartum Support International
"Expecting Better" by Emily Oster
Free Guide to Addressing Resentment in Your Relationship in Pregnancy and Postpartum
Episode 3 with Mackinzie Rummell, AMFT on Boundaries Being an Act of Love
If you enjoyed this episode and appreciate what we share here, we would be so honored if you shared the show and tagged us, @bloomafterbaby on Instagram so that we can see it and connect with our listeners!
*Please note that this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for seeking individualized care from a mental health or medical professional*
Stay Tuned for more to come from Rachel and Jen on all things motherhood and mental health - real mom experiences, support, & insights from a licensed psychotherapist and medical doctor.
Learn more about us and access all of our courses, coaching services, and free resources at bloomafterbaby.com
Pregnancy tips Postpartum wellness Prenatal care New motherhood Postpartum recovery Maternal health Pregnancy journey Expectant mothers Postpartum support Motherhood experience Parenting advice Family dynamics Parenting tips Raising children Family well-being Parenting challenges Family relationships Parenting insights Mental health for mothers Emotional well-being Coping with motherhood Maternal mental health Self-care for moms Stress management Emotional resilience Conversations with experts Interviews with mothers Real-life parenting stories Expert advice for moms
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Hosts
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in. Let's get to it. Boy, am I excited for this one. Hi, Rachel here. Jen is out today as her childcare for today fell through. So grateful there are two of us to basically make one functioning person. When we tell you we are in this with you, we really mean it. Jen, wish you were here.
Guest Introduction: Selena Harnato
00:00:52
Speaker
I'm connecting today with a close colleague turned your friend
00:00:55
Speaker
Selena Harnato, who is also a licensed therapist and a first-time mommy to be. Those of you who know me know I'm a mom of two. I have a nine-month-old and an almost four-year-old, and I had quite a journey in pregnancy, both times not a happy pregnant person, to put it lightly.
00:01:13
Speaker
I was lucky enough to not have any major health risks or complications, but I did have hyperemesis, prenatal depression, a lot of physical pain, migraines, and my body was just very uncomfortable with the whole thing. So partially from that experience and from those learnings, a big focus here at Loom After Baby is to provide information and support not only for post-partum mothering women, but also to pregnant women pre-baby.
00:01:39
Speaker
because there was a lot of need there as well. So back to our guest, Selena. She was a huge support and cheerleader for me throughout my entire journey to motherhood, from my very first pregnancy to my second pregnancy. And even now she supported me both professionally and personally so much. And I've been super excited to be able to watch and support her as she grows and embarks upon her own journey of entering motherhood. Selena is always a source of authenticity and wisdom for me.
00:02:08
Speaker
So I know she will be for you too. I've always admired and learned from her strength and fierce yet gentle presence. So I'm excited to have her on today to share a little bit about what her pregnancy experience has been like, what she's learned so far in this journey from both a personal human
00:02:25
Speaker
and a therapeutic standpoint.
Understanding ADHD and Pregnancy
00:02:27
Speaker
Selena works with a lot of couples and women. She's a Gottman Method therapist and is also EMDR trained like myself. I know she has so much goodness to share with you, especially if you are an expecting mama and especially if you also experience common symptoms of ADHD, such as anxiety, mood changes, and difficulty with executive functioning skills.
00:02:50
Speaker
which is something Selena struggles with and has learned a lot from in her journey of pregnancy and has a lot to share with you about it. So let's jump in. Hi Selena. Thank you so much for being here today with me.
00:03:06
Speaker
Hi, I'm so excited to be here and nervous too. I'm excited. Me too. We're both nervous sweating right now. Yes. I really wish we were sitting at Gumtree in Hermosa Beach having a latte.
00:03:20
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I'm so sad you moved, but also I get it. I want you to come back though. I know. I miss seeing you in person, but I appreciate so much you doing this with me and sharing your wisdom and experiences with me and with our listeners. So tell me, remind me what week you're in and tell me how you're feeling today. Okay. Yeah. I'm in week. Is this Friday or is this Thursday? That's Friday.
00:03:49
Speaker
week 32 officially today. I'm just physically exhausted, mentally just strained. And I don't know. I can't remember ever feeling this low, even prior to being on antidepressants or my ADHD medication. It's just like I keep telling Steven, my husband, there's no dopamine, nothing. Yeah.
00:04:10
Speaker
Oh, it's got to be so hard. I know how that feels just to get through every day and then also to have to function and be on at work and hold emotions for your clients. I feel for you right now. Yeah, I feel like we love what we do. And I feel like going into session, I'm always feeling a little bit
00:04:30
Speaker
dreading it a little bit and then I get in there and it's the perfect distraction from my own stuff and I enjoy those moments when I'm in session with people because it makes me feel like I'm a human again, I'm a therapist again and it's easier for me to fall back into that rhythm but outside of therapy.
00:04:47
Speaker
I'm just, I feel like a shell. Totally relate to that. I remember during pregnancy just, I would wake up and think, okay, I have five sessions today or whatever it was, even if it was just one. And I would think, I can't do it. Like, how am I going to get on to the other side
Embracing Motherhood and Partnerships
00:05:03
Speaker
of this day? There's no way I can do this. But you're right. I think when you've been practicing for a certain amount of time, your brain just learns how to switch modes and it really is energizing when you're actually with it. Yeah. And I've had, I've actually had one of my couples clients
00:05:17
Speaker
The guy he said, he said, I think you're a better therapist because you're pregnant, because you're just unfiltered. And I said, yeah, you're getting the unmedicated version of me. So yes, I am very unfiltered. I just, I recut to the chase, which is nice. Yeah, that is so true. I had a similar comment from a client early in my pregnancy when I was really sick and truly struggling to get through every moment. But
00:05:41
Speaker
I was so unfiltered and like kind of on fire with my clients and it was just like taking no shit and calling them out like with love of course but one of my clients was like before we hung up and she didn't know I was pregnant yet because it was really early and then later we reflected on it and I was like remember that one session.
00:05:58
Speaker
And she was like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense now. But she was like, dang, you're feisty today. I'm really glad I got to see you today when you're feeling really feisty. It's hard to imagine because I know you lead with such compassion and just in general as a therapist. And so to imagine you feisty with a client would be, yeah, it would be so different. Yeah. She's probably like, oh, what's happening? Oh man. Okay. So tell me, tell us what
00:06:26
Speaker
You're 32 weeks in now. You have about a month left of working. Yeah, 10 working days. Counting them. So what has been the most surprising part of pregnancy for you? Yeah, I feel like I am most surprised by two things. One, how much closer Steven and I have become. And two, how much more ready I actually feel to take on the identity as a mother.
00:06:55
Speaker
because I was so nervous to not only just have kids in general, but also to have this new identity of motherhood. I worked really hard prior to even thinking about getting pregnant to work on myself, both emotionally and just in life. And I really loved where I was at. And I'm very protective over my marriage. We work really hard in couples therapy. It's something that I just
00:07:19
Speaker
It's a big part of my life, of course. And so we had to do a lot of work together in couples and then me individually for me to get to a place where I felt like I could do this. And I've learned that a lot of that is me actually relying more on Steven. I tended to
00:07:36
Speaker
lean more towards the hyper-independent side before being pregnant. And I really had a hard time asking for help, which is terrible as a therapist. We're human. Yes, but we should ask for help. And I feel like I'm softer now because I just don't
Managing ADHD Without Medication
00:07:53
Speaker
have a choice. He has to help me for some things. I have to let my clients see me more as a human and family and friends. I just have to surrender to this experience of pregnancy. And as a result of that,
00:08:05
Speaker
I've been able to really let go of things and it's just been so beautiful to watch how helpful he is. And I guess I probably should have given him more credit that he would be so great, but it's been surprising. That's so amazing to hear. And I hope any mamas who are pregnant and listening to this can learn from that because I think it's one of the most proactive ways you can get ahead of
00:08:29
Speaker
the trenches of postpartum, like already being willing to ask for help and already being willing to accept help when it's offered to you and to express your needs to your partner is one of the hardest things that we struggle with in postpartum. I'm so
00:08:45
Speaker
proud of you. I'm so glad that you've shared that. Yeah. What's been the hardest part, the low for you? The hardest part is the adjustment to being pregnant, but also being without my ADHD medication. I knew that I was going to get off of my medication. And honestly, after this experience, if I go through pregnancy again, I might stay on it just because I don't know if I could do this again.
00:09:09
Speaker
I did not anticipate how much it would affect me with just my emotions and my emotional dysregulation. I just, like I said, have no control over my own body and my own thoughts and my emotions. And for me, that's a really scary thing to just surrender and
00:09:26
Speaker
let the day go by because I used to be really on it and I would have a routine and I would do these things and being without that medication just means that I'm unhinged and I have no filter. I'm so forgetful and I just have no sense of time. People with ADHD just in general struggle with a sense of time and meaning you just have no perception of how long things are going to take.
00:09:52
Speaker
or you like to play this game with yourself where you think that I can get all of this done in 10 minutes. And that has really affected my day to day life because obviously that means I'm not getting as much done and I'm just a mess. Okay. ADHD isn't something I'm professionally very well versed in or anything I've struggled with personally, other than trying to get my husband to admit that he has ADHD and he's time blind as well. And it drives me insane. Insane. That is so funny.
00:10:21
Speaker
No. Steven also has his EBD. Oh, okay. Yes. Oh, boy, you two. Yeah. Mine. Yes. Our house is a disaster. Our life is a disaster right now. I'm excited to learn from both you and Jen in this because, like I said, it's not something I know a ton about. But one thing Jen wanted to ask you was about that executive functioning and working memory and how
00:10:46
Speaker
that can exacerbate what's already changing physically with your brain, with the pregnancy brain and mom brain, which are actually real biological conditions are not just cute terms for being forgetful, right? Like our brains are actually functioning differently. And then on top of that, if you have ADHD and
00:11:06
Speaker
Those things are hard for you anyway and you go off your meds. That's a whole perfect storm. So I'm curious, how did you make that decision around the meds and what was your conversation like with your OB in the beginning? What was that like? Yeah, my OB is amazing. She really advocated for me in the beginning that if I want to stay on meds, I can stay on meds.
00:11:29
Speaker
It was very supportive. And we talked about the risks of the medication because it's a stimulant, obviously. And she said, basically, there's not enough evidence that proves that it's that terrible. We have to weigh the risks. What's the risk of you being without medication and what that's going to do to you and the baby versus you being on your medication and being able to function? And so in the end, although she was so supportive,
00:11:57
Speaker
I wanted to try without, and so I stayed on my antidepressant, so I have that as a buffer. But getting rid of the stimulant was just, it was scary. From the second I found out I was pregnant, and you were the first person I told I was pregnant, that next day I was like, oh no, I have to stop these meds. And I was on vacation. And I was like, I can't be on vacation without meds? That's so mean to myself. But yeah, I think
00:12:25
Speaker
I just, I wanted to try and see what was going to happen. And it's just been really hard. Yeah. And I can't remember what your question was.
00:12:35
Speaker
There we go. Pregnancy brain. Oh, you said mommy brain. Yes. Okay. Okay. I'm back on. So yeah, I mean, I knew that was a thing and I knew it's a real thing, but I also didn't realize how much overlap there would be with the ADHD symptoms in itself. And so I have no idea what the typical pregnancy experience is without ADHD. And I don't know if something is being pregnant or being without meds.
00:13:03
Speaker
I just know that there's a lot of overlap and it makes life really difficult. Yeah. And the mood stuff. So tell me more about that. In general, how your ADHD impacts your mood and then especially in pregnancy without the meds, how that's been? Meds, without the stimulants, it's the lack of dopamine and the inability to start things. Before, when I was on meds,
00:13:29
Speaker
I didn't really feel like I had a choice in deciding do I want to go do this or not, even though it was on my calendar. Right now, I feel like I play this fantasy game of what if I don't go to work today? That would be so great. And so there's just a lot of resistance to getting started with things. But as far as emotional dysregulation goes, I'm just at the whims of my emotions. I just cry for no reason. And I just
00:13:55
Speaker
Things change so quickly and I don't really understand it and it is scary to surrender to your body emotionally. But I've learned that the easiest way to get through it is you just have to surrender. So does it feel like you feel your emotions more intensely and more deeply? Where you feel a wider array of emotions or it's harder to regulate them or it takes longer to regulate them or all of the above?
00:14:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. I have not thought to ask myself that. I think, let me think about this. Okay. I think all of the above. The one thing that is different though than what I would have expected is anger. I don't really lean towards anger right now. Before I did, and I was more irritable, which is surprising because I was on medication, but right now I don't have the energy
00:14:42
Speaker
or capacity to be irritable or angry. I'm just sad and low. And yes, the anxiety is there, but it's more about the lower symptoms. Yeah. Okay. That's really interesting. I know that was something Jen wanted to ask you about too, especially because this week, the week we're recording this, we've been focusing a lot on
00:15:02
Speaker
postpartum rage. It'll be interesting to see if postpartum, you experience more of that. Oh, definitely. What's your postpartum plan medication wise? Are you going to go back on automatically or wait and see if you're going to breastfeed or do you have a plan? Wait to see if I'm going to breastfeed. I'm very up in the air about it. I'm just going to go with the flow if I can and I enjoy it enough. I will stick with it.
00:15:27
Speaker
If I can't, then I can't. But if I don't want to, then I don't want to. And whenever that happens, I will go back on my medication for sure. Okay. How else are you planning for your postpartum? And are you involving Steven in that? And what does that look like so far?
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, surprisingly, postpartum, although I'm obviously scared for this child to be born and to have to keep this human being alive, but I'm not as nervous because of how great he is. And I think I'm really ready to lean on that and to be able to figure it out together as a team.
00:16:04
Speaker
We've talked a lot about some of our, both of our fears surrounding new parenthood and how we want to navigate that. And we're both in agreement that we want to ask for help and receive help wherever we can. But as far as planning personally for my own postpartum experience, I just gave myself extra time off work.
00:16:23
Speaker
And I told my clients, anywhere between three to five months, I'm sorry, I can't give you a deadline, but it depends on how I'm feeling. I just didn't want to put any expectation of myself to be back onto the person I was because I just know that's not possible.
00:16:40
Speaker
You helped me with that. I think if you hadn't shared your own experience, the reality of your experience being pregnant, the whole experience for me would have been terribly different because you were one of the first people that told me it's really hard and it's okay if you don't like it all the time. And that was like my
00:17:02
Speaker
my lifesaver through the first couple of weeks, especially because it was so difficult. And I just remember thinking like, it's okay because Rachel said it's going to be hard and I don't have to feel bad if I don't like it.
Body Image and Acceptance During Pregnancy
00:17:14
Speaker
It doesn't mean I don't want this baby. It's just that this is hard work on our bodies and our brains and it's going to affect us. Yes. I'm so glad that helped too. Yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
Oh, it's always hard to to know. I don't want to be like a Debbie Downer to people or clients when they're preparing for pregnancy or postpartum. But it's helpful to know that at least gave you permission and normalized it. But it feels hard because it is hard not because something is wrong with you or you don't love this baby or that you're not going to be an amazing mom. It just is so hard on us.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, and I think other people who have been pregnant before, they talked more about the joys of it. And if I would have only heard that experience, that would have been terrifying for me. And I do think it's important to be honest about your experience. Most of my clients this week, or a couple of my clients this week, as soon as I've sat down for our session, they're like, you really hate being pregnant, huh? Can you tell with my face? I thought I was hiding.
00:18:18
Speaker
Like, you know what? Yeah, I really hate being pregnant. I hate it so much. And it's okay if I'm going to walk around as the poster child for hating pregnancy. I'm okay with being that person. And admitting it. You don't have to pretend you're glowing and loving it. And I think there is pressure to do that. And I think that's part of why I went into it thinking it would be amazing. I was mostly just getting information from
00:18:43
Speaker
social media, friends who genuinely did enjoy it or didn't hate it or who weren't sick. It was really hard and scary for me to admit I hated it because I felt like this isn't right, something's wrong with me. You feel guilty because also you think about the fact that so many people have a hard time getting pregnant and so you want to be sensitive to that, of course.
00:19:06
Speaker
If I'm walking around saying, I hate this so much, I can't even imagine somebody who's been trying for years, and this is all they want in life. But at the same time, there are so many different circumstances, and we just have to allow for everybody to have those different experiences. Yeah, totally. I love how you said that. It's important, of course, to be sensitive to that. And it doesn't take away from your pain and your own personal and unique experience. Sorry if you can hear my dog bark.
00:19:35
Speaker
Say hi to Murphy. So speaking of your clients mentioning you hate pregnancy and thinking about some things people with pregnancy the second time around, I would bring our two, three year old at the time to preschool and drop him off. And at one point the director was like, wow, you just look really miserable and uncomfortable. Great. Thank you so much. So tell me, has anyone said anything hurtful to you or
00:20:04
Speaker
insensitive to you either about how you seem or your body.
00:20:09
Speaker
your growing body or anything. Yeah. I'm sure people have. Steven's grandma is German and just very straight to the point. We FaceTimed her over Thanksgiving and she said, you look like you're carrying twins. But I don't feel offended by it whatsoever. I just think it's funny to me because yeah, I probably look miserable. Maybe I look like I'm carrying twins because our baby is a giant baby because Steven is a giant person and I'm not short.
00:20:39
Speaker
I'm okay with it, but I would imagine that for some women who are pregnant and who aren't prepared for somebody to make some comments about your body or how you're physically looking, that would be really jarring to hear. But I think I was prepared for that. It tells me a lot too that I know about the work you've done on radical acceptance and body image.
00:21:01
Speaker
stuff like that. Like you've done a lot of healing in that work and so it can definitely make those comments less impact and offensive. Yeah and that doesn't mean that I don't feel sometimes I feel huge or I'm like I just feel like I I'm so bloated all the time and none of my clothes fit me and all of that. I think that's coming more from the place of just discomfort and
00:21:24
Speaker
feeling like I'm not my own self right now. I'm just this vessel. I'm an incubator and that's my job. I want my other jobs back.
00:21:33
Speaker
And you will, you will get them back, I promise. Even when the baby comes, you're still giving them so much, especially in the beginning when you're recovering postpartum and all that physical recovery. And then if you're nursing, like you're obviously still giving so much of your body to them. But in my experience, at least there is such a liberation of having your body physically back and not having a human being living inside you. I can't wait for the day I can lay down on my stomach.
00:22:01
Speaker
Just keep thinking about running over to my bed, jumping on my bed, on my stomach. It is the weirdest thing to be excited about, but it's because it would symbolize that this is, I get to do what I want with this body. I don't have to worry about this child getting squished if I lay on my stomach. Totally. What's the first thing you're going to eat after?
00:22:20
Speaker
There's nothing really that I'm that excited to eat because I have been eating things that sometimes people say not to eat. I'm eating my salami sandwiches. I'm eating all the cheese. I get to drink a glass of wine every once in a while. I've been really relaxed about that. And a part of that was also you. I forget what book you mentioned to me about pregnancy. Yes. Once I read that, I felt so liberated to know that this is all the data surrounding
00:22:50
Speaker
these rules and regulations, and then you get to make your own informed decision.
Therapy and Connection for Expecting Couples
00:22:55
Speaker
So there's not anything that I've been necessarily holding out for. That's so great. So that book is Expecting Better by Emily Oster. I will link it in the show notes. You mentioned your relationship, your marriage, and you are a couples therapist, Gottman trained.
00:23:12
Speaker
What would your advice be from a therapist's perspective for couples going into pregnancy about how to stay connected? I love this question because I love couples and I love talking about couples. Get into couples therapy the second that you know you're pregnant.
00:23:28
Speaker
It's so cliche because therapists were going to say that, but it really was important and so helpful just to have these conversations that you know you need to have. And me even being a therapist, I knew that we should talk about how we're going to raise our children around religion.
00:23:44
Speaker
all these things, it just helps to have this third person in the room who's walking you through that. But as far as connection goes, I would say both people have to be really honest with how hard it is on them. Steven does tell me when it's hard on him, and I like that. And I get to tell him when it's hard on me, and we play off of each other of who's feeling like they can handle more at that time. And it really helps to eliminate some of the
00:24:11
Speaker
resentment and even also preparing to be a little bit resentful. That was something that I wanted to be prepared for because I knew there was going to be moments where I felt I have to carry this baby and he gets to just sit there and lay however he wants. And how dare he, like how dare he not be pregnant. But we communicate a lot about what we need from each other and about where our limits are.
00:24:36
Speaker
It's hard navigating that imbalance because it's like no matter how much they do or try to help, there is this sense of they just aren't going through the same physical changes that we are.
00:24:49
Speaker
I can speak from personal experience, but it's really hard to not hang that over them sometimes. I found it helpful sometimes even just to say that to him. I love you and I know it's not your fault, but I just need to tell you I'm annoyed that you don't have to feel what I'm feeling right now. It's not fair. And just having him and then I would tell him, I just need you to validate that. I don't need you to say anything else. Just validate that you don't understand what I'm going through physically. Just saying it felt good for me.
00:25:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's, it's so powerful to hear. Let me say, I cannot imagine what this is like. I literally cannot imagine what that would physically feel like, emotionally be like. And that alone, just that acknowledgement, it feels so good to have that acknowledged. Yeah. It feels seen and respected, everything you're doing. Definitely.
00:25:37
Speaker
Okay, one other question Dr. Jen had was back to ADHD. Do you have any favorite non-medication strategies for managing your ADHD symptoms that helped you in pregnancy? Yes, I wrote them down because I'm so flighty right now and this is something I wanted to make sure that I communicated. These are
00:25:55
Speaker
tips and things that have worked for me personally, being on medication and not being on medication. Whenever I'm working with a client with ADHD, I always tell them, assume that the future version of yourself is the worst version of you, the laziest, most tired,
00:26:13
Speaker
Just let it be realistic in that this person that you think is going to save you. If you think, oh, if I don't do my DMV application right now, future Selena will want to do it tomorrow. She is not going to want to do anything. So I tell them we have to be realistic about some of the limitations of our ADHD and how hard it is to get started with doing things.
00:26:36
Speaker
And once you do that, you're able to get things done because you're not relying on that for future version of you to save you. That's a big one. Another one is to just be aware of your dopamine seeking and where you're trying to get that. You want to pay attention to when it's getting maladaptive. If I'm on Amazon every night buying things, even if it's for $5, I know I'm dopamine seeking and I want to find a different way to go about that.
00:27:02
Speaker
And so I will watch reality TV instead. That's such a simple thing, but it helps me feel more in control of my own body and aware that I am, I'm working with the ADHD instead of against it. Doing the easiest thing first, instead of what people tell you, which is do the hard thing first, because we are dopamine seekers. If you do the easiest thing first, you obviously will feel good about that and you build momentum.
00:27:29
Speaker
And that is the biggest E to lean on when you're having to be productive with ADHD is momentum is your best friend. That's why you'll see people hyper-focus and they will do a lot.
00:27:42
Speaker
It's called, I think the boom or burst. I can't remember where I heard it. I heard it on a podcast, but there's like a boom or burst theory that ADHDers are either doing a lot at one time or they're doing nothing. And it's because if we don't have a momentum doing something and we stop and we sit down, getting started again is really hard. Yeah. I am curious though. Sorry. I want to ask you a question. Are these things that, I mean, I'm assuming other people struggle with them as well. It's not just neurodivergent brains that are struggling with these things.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah, I struggle with that too. And I don't fit any, I don't really fit the criteria for ADHD and I've never sought diagnosis, but I don't think I have it at all. But I, yeah, I do struggle with that. I think what ties in is the mood stuff. Cause I certainly do struggle with depression, not ADHD related. But I know that if I'm experiencing a depressive episode or I'm not on my medication and when I was pregnant, for sure, because there's
00:28:39
Speaker
definitely all those mood changes. I had a hard time with momentum and getting things done. And it's hard to not label yourself as being lazy. And that first tip I gave of assume the future version of you is the laziest version. I say that with empowerment, not a sense of shame that other people, because other people have constantly told us we're lazy or we don't follow through with things. And there is such a weight to that label. And so when I say the laziest version of yourself,
00:29:09
Speaker
In the future, it's more to take back, I guess, that label and to say that, yeah, sometimes I don't want to do things. There's nothing wrong with that, though. It does not mean that it's my whole identity as a person to be this lazy person.
Boundaries and Expectations in Motherhood
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
What other labels have you accumulated through your life with this? Flaky, flighty for sure. Too curious. I don't know if that's, that's a therapist thing, but there are times where we'll meet someone new and Steven's like, you're asking really tense questions.
00:29:41
Speaker
And I'm thinking this is just normal dinner talk, but it's probably more therapist related. I think with the flaky and the flighty though, there's always this fear of disappointing other people when you have ADHD because you are constantly disappointing other people. You're always over promising and you live in this constant fear that someone's going to find out that you aren't able to do it all, that you promise you could turn in that thing on Tuesday. And I don't know why you promised that because you have no time.
00:30:11
Speaker
up until Tuesday. And so you live with this weight on your shoulders of, do I look like I'm getting it all done on the outside? Because I don't want people to know that on the inside, it is so scattered, so disorganized, and just, it's a mess. And so I've had to learn how to be really careful about when I do commit to something. Of course, even now, when I commit to things, there are times where I overcommit.
00:30:37
Speaker
But I also tell my clients with ADHD that do not say yes to something, ever. You only say, let me get back to you. You have to be alone to think about, can I actually do this? And that's something that you have to think about. Do you say yes to the person in the moment and make them happy? Or are you going to worry about messing up and not being able to do it later? And I think there's that Brene Brown quote, choose discomfort over resentment. Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker
I rely on that one a lot. Choose the discomfort of telling this person, no, I can't do this in this moment, rather than the resentment later I'm in the field for having said yes. Oh, that's powerful. And that's a good tip for everyone, especially in motherhood, pregnancy and beyond, to do the never say yes in the moment. Always say, let me get back to you, because our priorities shift and change so much. And maybe in your former life, you're used to being
00:31:34
Speaker
an over-committer, an over-doer, an over-functioner, or just having more energy and time on your hands and wanting to be social more or work as hard as you used to. It can be hard to accept that change after going through motherhood. So that's a really helpful tip just to give yourself permission to say, I'll get back to you. Let me look at things and then be really intentional about what you actually say as to commit to
Exploring Birth Plans and Techniques
00:31:57
Speaker
upfront.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah. And it also means you have to be okay with people being disappointed in you and knowing that you're never going to win. And somebody's always going to want more from you. You know, as being therapists, we experience that with our clients. Sometimes we have to set boundaries with them and we have to set a boundary that may be hard for them, but we do it because we love them. Like Mackenzie said in your guys's podcast, it was so beautiful. She said that boundaries are an act of love.
00:32:27
Speaker
And it's so true. We're doing this because we love you and we want to keep this relationship safe. And so I can't commit to doing this thing because I don't know how I'm gonna feel on that day. And that's especially important during pregnancy. I don't know how I'm gonna feel in two weeks. And I cannot say that I will commit to this Christmas party. I can only say maybe, and I hope you're okay with that. Yeah. Yeah, it can be hard for people too if they're not used to you functioning that way.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Okay. I have two final questions for you. Fill in the blank. So finish this sentence. I didn't expect pregnancy to be so hard. I know that's so cliche, but hard. Yeah. One thing I really want to do before baby arrives is, um, this is more of a to-do list thing, but hypnobirthing. I don't know if you looked into it when you were pregnant. I'm fascinated by it. It is so interesting.
00:33:25
Speaker
Right now I'm learning from TikTok and YouTube, which is probably not the most reliable. And it's just, it's so beautiful to reframe birth and labor as something that maybe does not have to be terrifying or completely terrifying, that it can be this beautiful thing. And so far from when I've gathered a tiptoe birthing, you want to reframe that your body was made to do this, that you have to allow your body
00:33:57
Speaker
I've been listening to some practice hypnobirthing tracks and it's just funny because if I play them out loud and Steven will walk by and it's like, your cervix is opening. Allow for it to open like a rose petal. And I'm in there like, yeah, that makes sense. I can do this. Yeah. But I think it's just another, it's another tool in your tool belt. And when you're somebody that has anxiety, you want to feel prepared as best as you can. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
to push your baby out.
00:34:27
Speaker
Along with that, I don't even know if I'll be able to use it because I might have to get a C-section, which I don't think I told you. No. Don't tell us about that. Yeah. Because she's measuring about two weeks ahead and she has been measuring two weeks ahead. She's not in the position for vaginal labor. And so they're anticipating she might not be able to flip on her own because she's running out of space.
00:34:50
Speaker
time and so if she does not flip then yes I will go in for a c-section which is something that really scared me when I heard about it and it's not a guarantee she could still flip but I am preparing for the unknown I don't know what kind of labor I'm gonna have and normally that would absolutely terrify me weirdly it calms me down because it really shows you you have no control at all
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, just surrendering to that is so much better than trying to pretend you can control it. Yeah, definitely. I'm sorry, though. There's always some process of grief when your potential birth plan or your birth plan or experience doesn't go the way you want it to, or hoped it would. It is just a testament that our bodies and these babies are going to do what they want to do. And we have tools to help us and to help us feel empowered and help us along with the process.
00:35:44
Speaker
We're not in control. It's hard. It's also beautiful. I loved birth. We are not having any more children, that is for sure. But I'm always like, oh, I wish I could give birth again. Every time we go to our doctor's office or in hospital, the other day, actually, maybe TMI, I don't have to get Sean's permission to air this part. But last week or a couple of weeks ago, I was taking Sean to get his vasectomy.
00:36:12
Speaker
And it finally happened. Yeah, it finally happened. Thank goodness. A lot of relief there. But I drove him there and he was close to the hospital I delivered at and I was like, oh, I wish we were checking in for me to get birth right now. And he was like, this seems like odd timing for you to say that. And I don't want another baby and I don't want to get pregnant again. But birth is just the coolest experience ever. I can't wait. I can't wait for you to experience it and to hear it. I think you helped me reframe that as well.
Postpartum Plans and Support Systems
00:36:41
Speaker
because I was just absolutely terrified. If I do have to go through labor without a C-section and you had something about it feeling so empowering and so freeing, and I think about that sometimes when I'll be driving and I'll be thinking like,
00:36:56
Speaker
It's probably gonna feel so good to be able to scream out your baby. I just picture this wild experience, woman, jungle woman letting go, and that just sounds so cool. Either way that I give birth, it's going to have its ups and downs, but I remember thinking about that when you shared it with me about your birth experience. I just love that you drove by as if you said, I wish we were checking in, like it's a hotel, like it's a vacation.
Selena's Therapy Practice and Contact Information
00:37:25
Speaker
I mean, it kind of is. Oh my gosh. I don't just think that is hilarious. I wish that I was checking in so that my body could be torn apart. I know. You get food served to you and the nurses are just checking on you all the time and everyone's taking care of you and you get walked to the bathroom. It's actually quite luxurious. Wait, that does sound it sounds like a retreat. Yeah, honestly, I miss it sometimes.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. We'll see. Everyone's experience is different, obviously. Of course. And that's on everybody's sentiment, but. Of course, yeah. You know, so many different things can happen. Yeah. But I just love that that is your reaction to the possibility. I know. I would love driving to get the sniffity sniff done. Yeah. Like, wait. So I would love to have you back on whenever you're ready after baby comes. And I'm sure everyone would love to hear
00:38:25
Speaker
how your birth goes and what you learn from the postpartum experience. So we'll talk offline about that. But thank you so much for your openness and your vulnerability and your wisdom and authenticity. I'm so appreciative of you. Oh, I love you just so much. I want everyone to know how great Rachel is. She really is. And I just appreciate being even being able to talk about it as nervous as I was to talk about it here. I think it's also liberating and
00:38:53
Speaker
It's important to talk about the hard stuff with pregnancy as well as the beautiful stuff, but they're both really important. So I appreciate you listening. Tell us a little about your practice and how people can find you if they want to get in touch with you or any of your associates. Yes.
00:39:12
Speaker
I am not taking on new clients right now, obviously, because I will be on maternity leave. But when I'm back and ready to take on clients, I love working with ADHD and couples, perfectionism, burnout, codependency, high
Closing and Listener Engagement
00:39:26
Speaker
achieving women. That's my specialty. And I do have two amazing associates who are both so different and wonderful. And I love their work. And they are taking on new clients. So you can find them through my website and book
00:39:41
Speaker
consultation with them. I'll link your website in the show notes too. Thanks again, Selena.
00:39:46
Speaker
Of course, thank you. Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week, so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned.
00:40:12
Speaker
We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the Gram and TikTok, plus go to bloomafterbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.