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12. Hey Dads: The Transition to Fatherhood, with Eric Jordan
153 Plays1 year ago
The dads are back! Jen sits down with her husband Eric to hear all about his hindsight 20/20 take on the transition into parenthood. We discuss what he wishes he’d known before becoming a dad and some of the most challenging emotional and psychological transitions. We dive into relationship dynamics, the roommate stage (and why it’s not what we initially thought it would be), and myths and biases around gender norms. We share lots of our personal experiences, plus some of our biggest mistakes and revelations.
This is a good one to share with a new or expecting dad!
HUGE gratitude to ALL the men out there who are being change-makers and cycle breakers!!
Links and resources mentioned in the episode:
Sad Dads: Recognizing Paternal Postpartum Depression
Our Free Guide to Addressing Resentment in Your Relationship After Baby
Why We Can't Ignore Dad's Mental Health
If you enjoyed this episode and appreciate what we share here, please rate and review the show in your favorite podcast app! And come find us on Instagram @bloomafterbaby!
*Please note that this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for seeking individualized care from a mental health or medical professional*
Stay Tuned for more to come from Rachel Daggett and Dr Jen Jordan on all things motherhood and mental health - real mom experiences and insights from a licensed psychotherapist and medical doctor.
Learn more about us and access all of our courses, services, and free resources at bloomafterbaby.com
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Bloom After Baby'
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Bloom After Baby, the podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel Daggett and Jen Jordan. We're a therapist and a doctor and both moms of two. We're here to discuss the mental health and wellness needs that are unique to motherhood. From confusing hormone swings to your expanding body to boundaries and tricky relationships, we'll give you the information you need to experience motherhood in a way that feels good to you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in. Let's get to it.
Transition to Fatherhood: Eric's Perspective
00:00:36
Speaker
All right. Hi everybody. And welcome to the show. This is Jen. I'm solo today. Rachel and I are both doing solo episodes with our other halves to bring in some of the dad perspective. So today my husband, Eric joins the show and Eric and I have two daughters, a three year old and a 17 month old. And today Eric's giving you his hindsight, 2020 take on the transition into parent. We talk a lot at Bloom After Baby.
00:01:02
Speaker
about the transition to motherhood. And we talk about the term matrescence, which describes the transition into motherhood, the physical, biological, hormonal, social, relationship and identity transformations that women go through in the transition to motherhood. And today,
00:01:22
Speaker
I wanted to get Eric's perspective on his experience in that transition to fatherhood. We focus on some of the things that he wished he would have known before becoming a father. We talk about some of the psychological and emotional elements that were challenging, and we talk about some of the relationship dynamics that shifted. We'll get into some of the parenting dynamics that we personally found most emotionally and psychologically impactful. We talk about the roommate stage.
00:01:49
Speaker
and why it's not what we initially thought it would be. And we also get into some of the myths and biases around gender norms. We get into prenatal care and how it might influence how dads approach parenthood in the early stages. And we share lots of our personal experiences and some of our mistakes and revelations. So episode helpful, especially if you're an expecting parent or a new parent.
00:02:11
Speaker
in the early postpartum period. And as moms, I hope this information provides some insight into some of what your partner might be going through. And as dads, I hope that this conversation can help offer some insights into topics and information that are important and helpful to discuss with your partner.
Emotional Challenges in Fatherhood
00:02:28
Speaker
So, Erika, as you're sitting with me right now, we don't need any formal introductions. We'll just dive right in with the first question we wanted to talk about.
00:02:34
Speaker
So what are some of the things you wish you would have known before entering parenthood that you think would have made the whole transition easier? I wish I would have known how emotionally vulnerable we would be and how difficult being parents to active children would be. I did a lot of
00:02:59
Speaker
preparation. I had spreadsheets, I had timelines, I was very trying to be as involved as I could in preparing the room, making dressers, doing all these sorts of things, being prepared for the physical presence of a baby, but not understanding a lot of the emotional side, how to be, how to
00:03:22
Speaker
be patient with a crying baby, how to adapt to an ever changing environment that doesn't just revolve around having the right baby carrier. But I imagine most parents feel that just because it's a completely new experience that
00:03:38
Speaker
Maybe nothing can prepare you for. I feel like we had a bit of preparation with our dogs at that time when Scotty came. I think we had three senior dogs. Yeah, three and two blind. So we were literally carrying around two dogs most places. So we were just transporting.
00:03:57
Speaker
coming around two dogs, hand feeding dogs. Any free time was taken up by these high needs dogs, which prepared us and in some senses may, but it's still a different, it's obviously different killing challenges or unknowns that I thought again would just come naturally. Elaborate on the emotional component. What do you mean by that? Was it the worry? Was it anxiety? Was it the constant unknowns?
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just really the constant unknowns. It wasn't necessarily anxiety or worry. I always felt that we would be good parents, but it was really just the unknowns. How's the baby going to sleep? How is it going to impact our relationship? How do we prioritize everything else in our lives when we've got a newborn or a baby or a child or toddler? It kind of is an ongoing thing that we're still
00:04:49
Speaker
working through. But yeah, I think it's just trying to, the emotional component of it that just, you can't control, I think. I turn immediately to, what can I do? What can I do to fix this? If you're overwhelmed by something, or Sky's been crying too long, or she won't go to sleep, and you're putting her down that night, or however it was.
00:05:14
Speaker
I would put it down. Let me put it down. I'll take this off your shoulders and it'll make it all better. Yeah. Yeah. When we'd recognize that there wasn't a solution, it would almost create kind of this helplessness.
Resentment and Expectations: Navigating Parenthood
00:05:26
Speaker
If you couldn't solve it, then how could you even be supportive? And I remember saying things like, I just need the affirmations. I just need you to tell me I'm doing a good job. I just need you to put some snacks by my bed where I'm nursing in the middle of the night or just these little things that to me felt maybe supportive, but
00:05:44
Speaker
maybe weren't even on your radar because you were focusing on solution. And if there's no solution, then what is there even?
00:05:50
Speaker
Not to say you didn't do a million other things, but I think a lot of times it was like the focus was on solving versus the little support things. Yeah. I mean, nothing I can do and not understanding fully how important some of those little things are. I had to have a mind shift to an extent that what you needed was not exactly what I was trying to offer that I thought would be what you needed. That makes sense.
00:06:18
Speaker
One thing I want to say in response to that too is that I think that also created some of the resentment between us or resentment on my end that I almost looked at you as you should have a way to help or to fix the problem even knowing that there wasn't a solution.
00:06:39
Speaker
even knowing that you were already doing everything you could, but because I was experiencing certain mental, emotional changes, also just some of the physical stuff you literally couldn't do like breastfeeding, the physical recovery after C-sections. I still had resentment that you weren't going through it the same way I was and rationally like absolutely knew that didn't make sense.
00:07:01
Speaker
But yeah, it was, there was definitely a period of time where I felt that I was walking on eggshells and there was a fair amount of expectation. I feel like that I should be a little bit of a mind reader, which was hard because I couldn't step in and just say, here's what I can do to get ahead of any.
00:07:27
Speaker
restrations or resentment that you might have because I didn't know what they really were. And I didn't know what they were stemming from. And I didn't know how to stamp them down. So I think that was hard for sure. And in hindsight, if I had known what was really going on underneath the surface, I think it would have been easier to understand where you were coming from, as opposed to feeling like I can never make you happy.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah. In hindsight, if you would have recognized some of what I was going through mentally, it would have made it a little bit easier maybe to just roll with some of that behavior. But at the same time, I was exhibiting a lot of resentment. I know talking to other moms, that's such a common thing to experience during that time, but it makes it really challenging for the partner because like you said, you're walking on eggshells and that resentment isn't really rooted in anything
00:08:23
Speaker
very justified as a way to put it that it was a defense mechanism and it was feeling helpless me feeling helpless that resentment is really your defense mechanism that gives you this kind of false sense of power or self-righteousness that your ego likes and gives you a temporary kind of lift but
00:08:43
Speaker
obviously as a detrimental cycle. And I guess that's just to say that it made it really tough because I was expressing a lot of that pretty consistently. And so you were working against a lot. We have been knowing what I know now, it allowed me to take a step back, give me more space. And that's something we've worked on just through our relationship and parenting decisions and things like that is if we disagree on something, we can
00:09:13
Speaker
take them in and apart and reflect. And I would have done that more as opposed to being right there saying, what can I do to help? How can I fix this? It wasn't the difficulties in that moment or whatever. It was something else. And so just being able to give you space and
00:09:33
Speaker
allow myself to think more level-headedly about really what do you need in that moment, something that I would obviously do differently because my solution-oriented self isn't what was going to make things any better. Yeah. In some situation. Okay. So going back to that original question about what you wish you would have known before parenthood that could have prepared you better, I think one thing we've talked a lot about is really just the parenting aspect. Before kids, we weren't a couple that really
00:10:03
Speaker
bicker it a lot. Most of our arguments were over broader kind of topics or events. And so going into parenthood, I don't think either of us anticipated the amount of little arguments over what feel insignificant. Parenting really brings that out. There's so many little things to scrutinize about each other. And I think I want to hear your perspective on that. I don't think
00:10:26
Speaker
That's something you can even prepare for because without having been a parent before when you're a parent for the first time, you're going to learn your own approaches while we have very similar parenting holistic approaches and global approaches to things. Like our core values align for sure. Our core values align and gets down to like
00:10:49
Speaker
how do we approach things in the moment when we're trying to solve a problem, when we're trying to get Scotty to put on a shirt, when we're trying to get out the door, when we're trying to, do we give her ice cream before dinner, things like that. Little decisions that don't really have a huge impact on how that child is going to turn out or anything. It's really just in the moment decisions. That's where I didn't necessarily anticipate or know
00:11:14
Speaker
I guess I didn't know how much I would think that my way is the right way. I realized that neither of our ways really work 100%. I think that was something that even I realized more and more as we go through parenthood is that there is no 100% right way. And that's a hard thing for me to accept. So I think just knowing that we're both just trying to get through the day and trying to get through that situation.
00:11:42
Speaker
I think what you just said too about just trying to get through the day is key. The idea of giving each other a charitable assumption that you're trying to do what's best for your child, you're trying to do what's best for your family, those disagreements or discrepancies in approach, we would think about that as like a negative,
The Role of Dads in Early Parenthood
00:12:02
Speaker
hostile thing, that you're doing it wrong.
00:12:04
Speaker
Therefore, I should be upset and angry about it as opposed to you're doing it differently. You're wanting to do what's best for your family. There's doesn't need to be anger attached to it. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think realizing that we're both trying to achieve the same goal. We both have the same holistic viewpoint on parenting that we share. I know that we're both focused on the same goal, whether it's in that situation or raising our kids for the long term.
00:12:34
Speaker
I like what you said about the space part too. I think that's also been one of the biggest take homes for us is that we need to stop having these tense conversations within the tense moments that when we're in these really tense moments like in the midst of a tantrum or a newborn that
00:12:51
Speaker
is having six hours of constant crying. Our nervous systems are so activated. We're not actually having the most logical conversation. So with the parenting piece of it, not critiquing each other while it's happening, but trying to think about those things, log those things, and then discuss it in the context of an overarching parenting approach that we need to reconcile and taking that space
00:13:17
Speaker
and step back to have those conversations at more constructive times.
00:13:22
Speaker
Okay, so we're gonna switch topics for a minute. I have another question about preparation. We talk a lot about from the mom side of it, that moms, we're just not doing a good job of being really transparent and vocal about how wholly transformative this motherhood process is and what to expect. And I would love to hear from the dad side of it. I don't wanna throw anybody under the bus, but I know some of the conversation around some of your dad friends
00:13:51
Speaker
And especially early on when we're talking about a baby is statements like, I don't really do anything. And tell me more about your thoughts there, what that looks like, what you want that to look like.
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. I don't believe, and I've had a lot of my friends before I became a dad say those exact words. You can't do anything in the first six months anyway. Yeah. I don't subscribe to the, you can't do anything mentality. And it's really just the mom who has to do everything. I really relished, especially with Scotty, I think maybe part of that was that.
00:14:28
Speaker
She did take a bottle earlier on, but that I could put her to bed. I could rock her to sleep, could give her a bottle in the middle of the night. I love that. Yeah. Childcare tasks. You literally did everything that I did other than the breastfeeding, everything else we shared in some way. Yeah, I think so. And obviously probably some situations that I could have done. How did you decide to do that though? I think again, I think it's just.
00:14:55
Speaker
Never really join where you can't do anything. And that myth that don't ball with the baby till later on in their, in their infancy or whatever. I just never believe that. I think that there's so many things you can do.
00:15:10
Speaker
I think you being really involved in the prenatal care made a huge difference too, especially the first time around that it one set the tone for that mutual approach, but also it gave you so much familiarity with what all went into having a child and just being so engaged early on, I think made a big difference. I think that, again, it gets back to how much can
00:15:38
Speaker
you know, can the man do once the baby is here. And the more I knew and the more I taught, may not taught myself, but the more I was involved during pregnancy, the more I knew or thought I could do once the baby was here. And so having the
00:15:57
Speaker
charts and the pictures and the growth curves and understanding all that stuff and what changes you were going through in your body during pregnancy then led into tracking and understanding baby's progress.
00:16:13
Speaker
as that baby grows older and then also understanding how your recovery is going to go or expected to go post pregnancy to mainly physically because that's I guess what I could understand the most because the other getting back to what I would talk about with other dads or seem to be dads. It is easy to say, oh, you're going to be more interactive with a child when they're walking and
00:16:40
Speaker
hugging and high-fiving and doing all these sorts of things. I think there's so much more before that A, you can create a bond and B is noticeable.
00:16:51
Speaker
I just had an aha moment too that I think what you said about the prenatal care where a lot of the information has to do with fetal changes, physical changes for mom. And that kind of sets the stage for that being the continued attitude towards it after baby arrives that these are changes happening within mom's body and to mom's body. And then afterwards it's like those same things are
00:17:20
Speaker
owned by the mother, maybe the way that those prenatal care visits, medical visits set us up for that idea.
The 'Roommate Stage' in Relationships
00:17:29
Speaker
Obviously there's a lot of gender norms and biases there too, but yeah, I think that's a good point that the typical medical care sets it up for the mom to own that information.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think unfortunately a lot of that is because you're the only one that can be in tune with what's happening. And yeah, I guess part of that's true. But the way that even fetal information is shared is with the mom. It's not shared with the dad the same way. Yeah.
00:17:54
Speaker
And it doesn't mean that the dad can't educate and understand it. Maybe they're not going to, they're obviously not going to experience it, but they can understand and try to understand what the mom is going through because I think that's important and it helps just the dad's mindset. I think, or at least it helped to just my mindset into maybe how I could be helpful and what would be most beneficial for you because at least I understood a little bit about what was happening. Yeah.
00:18:23
Speaker
All right, so again, I'm switching gears, but the last question I wanted to touch on was in, let's focus on the earlier postpartum period, maybe the first six months or so. You have this massive transition where you often go to like a roommate stage and everything revolves around the baby and everything is transactional. So I'd just love to get your take on that. If it's a negative thing, if it's something you worry about, what you think it means, your thoughts around that.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, it obviously exists. I think some people might be really worried about it and think that it has a negative impact on the relationship. I actually just look at it as it really just was a pact of life. And again, we
00:19:08
Speaker
both have the same goal when we're in that roommate stage and that's to take care of our kids, be there for our kids, bond with our kids, less interaction between us. I think that you have
00:19:26
Speaker
navigated through that or within that because we're still in that, but with so much less resistance. I think I took offense to a lot of it early on and would make a lot of comments like, you don't even notice me and take it as almost rejection. So how did you not take it so personally? I don't know. I think just because I know that we will always come back to it. I don't question that connection.
00:19:54
Speaker
And I definitely understand that in the times when the kids aren't around or we have time to ourselves, those times need to be taken advantage of too. But I always know that when those times come, that they'll be just like they were pre-kids. I've always had that mindset and that's why I never worried about it.
00:20:19
Speaker
And you didn't need the validation, I think, from talking to other moms too. I think that as moms, it's this weird dichotomy because you on one hand are expected to do all the things. And there's a lot of kind of default parent expectations on the mom that she should be shouldering so much. But then at the same time, it's also idolized or romanticized that
00:20:43
Speaker
The mom is also the one that some other of your children and you're going to be doting on her and supporting her during this time And so I had this really unrealistic expectation that there'd be a lot of praise and doting which again, you're you were doing just as much as I was and You were going through through so much yourself. I didn't even really realize that I had that subconscious Perception that there was also supposed to be that element of it. So when we were
00:21:13
Speaker
and are in the trenches and really just getting through the day and doing all the essential things and not paying a lot of intimate attention to each other. I think I internalized that as rejection for some of those reasons. Yeah, that's not wrong. That's not wrong to have those expectations by any means, obviously, I think. But unrealistic in that you were going through similar things and in it too.
00:21:40
Speaker
I wasn't expecting myself to be giving you any sort of that type of validation or other attention. Yeah. No, you're right. I don't, not one that necessarily needs verbal affirmations and things like that. But for you to want those things and for you to need those things isn't unreasonable and isn't unrealistic. And it's definitely something that is hard to anticipate when and where, but
00:22:08
Speaker
But it would have helped me to have had the anticipation of this roommate stage and of the reason it exists and not to take those personally because I think I really did myself a disservice by not being aware of that and having unrealistic expectations for that stage of our life at that moment.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. It's impossible, especially when we're knee deep in childcare and putting out fires. And when we're in the midst of all of that, it's going to be impossible for the partner to step away from the task at hand. To tell me how beautiful I look when I'm in three-day-old sweats. Yeah, it's impossible because, again, we're both working towards the same
00:22:59
Speaker
Like in a naked toddler school, yeah. Yeah, trying to make a toddler school. But again, where it's a reasonable expectation is, okay, Scotty's in school and we have a moment and I come in the door and those are the times that to really take the opportunity to give those affirmations or whatever they might be your partner needs.
Conclusion and Resources
00:23:20
Speaker
And I think, again, it's not a reasonable expectation to be able to want those things.
00:23:25
Speaker
It's not a reasonable expectation to want those things in the midst of a crisis, but it's not a reasonable to want them outside of in moments of calm. Yeah, and I think that kind of goes back to what we were saying about being unable to find a solution or there not being a solution to a situation and sometimes really the only
00:23:44
Speaker
input or what you can offer is a validating comment or a compliment or something supportive from both directions. And those, again, those needs might come in different forms, verbal affirmations, a foot rub, taking a household chore that one person might normally do off that person's hands. I think it's just, you can take the form of a lot of different things that just shows that you're present and understanding what the other person needs.
00:24:14
Speaker
Okay. Speaking of roommates, we're going to get out of our professional mode now and, uh, go sit on the couch and watch a movie or something less roommatey. We can sign off there, but thank you so much for coming on and Eric will definitely be making some regular appearances this year. So, um, we'll just be excited to continue to include the dad's perspective in this conversation. Thanks for having me. Thanks babe. Love you. Love you.
00:24:46
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in with us today. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like it brought you value, don't forget to rate the show and leave a review. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us know which conversations you are needing the most. And we'll keep bringing you new episodes every week so hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Also, be sure to check out the show notes for any links or resources that we mentioned.
00:25:09
Speaker
We're on this journey with you, so be sure to find us on the gram. Plus, go to bloomafterbaby.com and grab our free guides on all things motherhood created just for you. Breathe, be well, and keep growing, Mama.