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224- Is it still 'seafood', if they lived in a swimming pool?
67 Plays4 days ago
Shame on the University of Exeter this week, for their non-solution to the problems surrounding the needless plundering of the world's seas & oceans for 'food': Inland, hell-hole swimming pools full of prawns. FFS....
Perhaps they've just not considered the thought of not eating them?
As well as these stories, Dominic, Carlos & Anthony discuss eight other bits of news from the vegan & animal rights space over the last seven days across the world.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1369281768257810
https://vk.com/video-580964_456242571)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c740d43nqj8o
https://www.farminguk.com/news/nfu-urges-caution-as-uk-weighs-up-methane-cutting-cow-feed-additives_67555.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w90l7zx2vo
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/too-little-too-late-countryside-alliance-try-to-cut-ties-with-coniston-foxhounds/
https://www.worldanimalprotection.org/latest/news/cop30-peoples-march-climate-animal-welfare/
https://www.dtnext.in/news/chennai/animal-rights-activists-stage-silent-protest-against-sc-orders-to-relocate-stray-dogs-853455
https://realnewsmagazine.net/german-prison-does-not-have-to-provide-vegan-meals-court-rules/
https://news.exeter.ac.uk/faculty-of-health-and-life-sciences/uk-prawn-farms-could-spark-sustainable-seafood-revolution/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/experts-warn-of-super-infectious-bird-flu-as-farmers-told-to-prepare_67512.html
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Carlos & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Co-hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, it's a rather husky Anthony here. Very excited to tell you that once again we are bringing you vegan and animal rights news from the last seven days or so. Who is we? It's me, it's Dominic and it's Carlos, but that is enough of the falafel.
00:00:17
Speaker
Let's get on with Vegan Week. So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere.
00:00:31
Speaker
We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me. Hang on a minute.
00:00:41
Speaker
You always pick them.
00:00:48
Speaker
social
Show Format and Vegan News
00:00:49
Speaker
injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him don't have laser vision. and Hello everybody, thank you so much for being here and listening to us. This is Carlos, welcome to Enough of the Falafel.
00:01:15
Speaker
Hey hey hey everybody, my name is Dominic, it is a joy to be here with Carlos, always love sharing the show with Carlos. And Anthony, poor Anthony with his poor throat, but soldiering through it, goes to show that us vegans, we're not all superheroes are we? Even vegans every now and again might have a little...
00:01:34
Speaker
tickling
Vegan Activism in Music
00:01:35
Speaker
the throat it's all right and it's all right if you've not tuned in before this show is our news show where we are going to look through vegan and animal rights news from the last week or so plus a couple of stories that link back to ah previous shows but we'll explain all of that when we get there that is enough of the falafel let's hear what's been going on this week
00:02:03
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:02:16
Speaker
Well, I will stop bemoaning my sore throat in a moment, but I feel I should explain to listeners how I got it. This is a completely true story. I was trying to sing along to the death metal vocalist Ignacio Fernandez. Who is she? She's only the vegan who has been crowned Miss World Chile in the last few days. Dominic, you've listened to some of her band's work is outrageous isn't it outrageous stuff it is outrageous stuff so um those of you who've been listening for a while might know that um two vegan groups who i've gone on to really adore i discovered through anthony through this show i discovered uh joe and i'm not sure if we're allowed to to swear a word that rhymes with hit joe and the hit boys
00:03:02
Speaker
who I'm off to see on tour. They're in Manchester where I live in a couple of weeks' time. And Bob Villan discovered them both through this show. Now, I'll be honest. I'll be honest. This ah this singer... ah Yeah! Yeah! It is. It's throaty, isn't it? It's throaty. We've got a wonderful fellow who joins us for this show called Paul. And he... ah He loves... her i went I stayed over his his house. I met Paul through this podcast. And we spent the evening with him playing me a whole load of vegan singers.
00:03:33
Speaker
I don't know if this was one of them. I don't know. But, um yeah, I encourage listeners to to check out the link. and It made me feel proper old grumpy guy. I thought, is this what the kids are listening to now? Because it is...
00:03:51
Speaker
it is It is chaotic. It is loud, you know. It's fantastic that vegans are existing in all walks of life everywhere. But ah it's not something that you'll catch the postman whistling. I think that's fair to say, isn't it? And I don't think that's their target audience either, to be fair. It's really passionate, really admirable, really inspiring. And...
00:04:17
Speaker
You know, cast aside all those ideas that vegans are all, you know, limp, lifeless, can barely hold up a stick of celery because they're so lacking in protein. You know, you look at this bad and they are bolshie, they are bold, they are full of power. And yeah, it's a great thing to have in the world. It's great great that they're really outspoken about their vegan ways. That is brilliant. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've i've currently got on the screen in front of me of a video to one of their tracks, which we'll put a link in the show notes for that is, as well as having the music, it's documenting a lot of social justice and animal rights issues as part of the music video. So that's
Animal Rights Legal Issues
00:05:03
Speaker
that's great that they're not just accidentally vegan and not really telling anyone about it, they're using their platform to to raise awareness to so good for them thank you Dominic let's move on to Carlos's first story of the week it's great that Carlos is with us this week because he is an active hunt sab and I would say that just from my lay person perspective this story has been possibly the the biggest story relating to to hunting in the UK in the last 12 months or so that I've noticed would would that be your perspective too Carlos
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's certainly one of the biggest in the news this year because it was so blatant and it actually made the news not just in the activist circles, but kind of in mainstream media as well.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah. So tell tell us about it. you're You're going to give a far more informed perspective than I. So the Lake District Huntsabs, they captured some some footage of the Coniston foxhounds. I mean, not literally, that that's the name of the band of the group.
00:06:04
Speaker
of the fox hunting group, the criminal gang. The the members of the Coniston Foxhounds digging out the fox and then throwing the fox to the hounds, which of course is a violation of the Hunting Act of 2004.
00:06:16
Speaker
What happened is that this this has resulted in 13 arrests so far so far. I think it was in an initial six arrests and then seven arrests after that. I believe probably through going through people's phones and seeing evidence there are kind of messages between people talking about illegal activities. Usually you get these type of people who do fox hunting. They also mess with other types of illegal hunting or animal abuse, like hair coursing and so on. So there might be other crimes or lamping. So there might be other crimes involved. But anyway, 13 people arrested.
00:06:50
Speaker
And of course, the the Countryside Alliance, which is the main pro-hunting lobby group, they've attempted They've kind of immediately just gone and and said, no, no, no, we ah you know we don't we have nothing to do. We need the Connison Foxhounds. you know we've They're suspended. you know They have nothing to do. But the fact is, you know it's this same Countryside Alliance that in the past has demonstrated against the Hunting Act that has done web seminars for its members show you know telling them how to pretend they're trail hunting.
00:07:20
Speaker
and so on and so forth. So the cat's out of the bag in this one, as the Labour government is now increasingly talking about strengthening the Hunting Act at the beginning of next year. This is another, well, we hope, nail in the coffin. Absolutely. it's It's never a good time for these things to happen against wildlife and against innocent and animals. However, as you say, Carlos, it could be a particularly good time for it to be exposed yeah in lieu of that that proposed government activity. I've seen Dominic shaking his head, who like many of us is skeptical that that will come to anything. but Yeah, we've, um of course, my subgroup also has... a lobbying group at the moment, and and we're kind of working actively on that. So they seem receptive, very receptive to the idea. And it's already been announced that they're going to look into it, but we'll wait and see as usual with these things. And of course, just because a law exists doesn't mean it's automatically enforced, as we saw in this very in this example we're talking about, where you know these fox hunters in the Lake District, they just went ahead and did it.
00:08:27
Speaker
even as Well, I assume they could hear the drone above their heads. I mean, that thing makes a lot of noise. So they just felt completely above the law. Yeah, absolutely. And kudos to everyone who who does the fantastic work to document this and and highlight it, because that's the that's the stuff that is the most persuasive, isn't it? It's showing that this does happen, as we know. But sometimes people need to see proof, don't they? And even that might not be enough. We need lots of proof. But yeah, well done to everyone doing that. Laudable behaviour. something that's not laudable, and in fact something that's been called un-British, has been the fact that penguins in the Sea Life London Aquarium are, quote, trapped in this aquarium and not seeing the light of day. This is something that's been reported on the BBC News website this week. Dominic, are you able to tell us some more about what's the context of this? Why why is this being brought to our attention now?
00:09:27
Speaker
Well, as is often the case, this is one of the stories that trigger all kinds of contrasting views in me. Of course, I really care about all life. I, you know, as a vegan, I care about little worms out in the earth. I care about limpets on rocks and I care about penguins. Of course I do. We've spoken on previous shows about how certain animals that might be perceived as cute might get more attention than others.
00:09:58
Speaker
And this is a campaign that's really being led by, amongst many people, one of the Labour MPs, the MP for Hemel Hempstead, David Taylor. And he's the one who's called it un-British. And, oh, that makes my blood curdle, my blood curdle for him to single out penguins. So the implication, if it's un-British for penguins to live in this zoo, is... It's, you know, completely fine, isn't it, for pigs
Climate Action and Protests
00:10:28
Speaker
to be in crates, for, you know, cows to be in a constant state of pregnancy, for chickens to have their beaks clipped, you know, it's ridiculous. It's this selective situation. speciesism that's just awful. And I really question, I've never read the name David Taylor, the Southern MP before today being someone up North, but question his genuine pairing of animals in general. I think that, you know, he's seen this as an opportunity to look good. That they have actually received statement back from Life London Aquarium. They've said that, you know, they do care deeply about the penguins. They know that other people do. They work with an incredible team of conservationists, animal welfare specialists and Am I saying that correctly? Let's go with that. Let's go with that. So, yeah, you know, there's always zoo discussions being had.
00:11:36
Speaker
And in this day and age, I think it's a very... difficult argument to argue that any animal needs to be in a zoo it's not my stance for it to be um so i agree that i want the penguins to have the life that most suits them being in their natural state as possible but to call it un-british oh shut up shut up Yes. I felt like the only British kind of interaction with a penguin at all would be to visit one in its natural habitat. He gives the quote, no animal should live like that with their rights appearing to be traded for hard cash.
00:12:19
Speaker
It's like, have you ever heard of animal agriculture? That's um mean that' that's that's basically what's happening, isn't it? Interestingly, he was also quite prominent in commenting on The government's announcement about trying to phase out animal testing quicker, which made our show last week. He he was vocal about that. He doesn't seem to be vegan, but he he does seem to be feeling like he wants to speak up.
00:12:44
Speaker
on behalf of animals. so Maybe I'm doing him a disservice, I guess because for fear of going off topic, across the world, there's like the big divide between, you know, the left wing and the right wing, the poorer people and the richer people, the gap in wealth getting bigger. And, you know, if you're one of our international listeners, we've got a political party here, which make me feel all kinds of anger at their very existence a party called reform who are like the party who are very much for oh britain britain and britain with all the what i would describe as xenophobic qualities of that and i can't help but feel if he just not use that word un-british it's like it's like he's appealing to that kind of reform sort of mentality and it's like oh come on man
00:13:30
Speaker
come mom Come on, come on, mate, you're better than that, surely, surely. We would hope you so, wouldn't we? We would hope. yeah But yeah, no, I think you've summarised my feelings, certainly, Dominic, and i yeah I imagine many of our listeners too. Thank you for that one. So, moving away from Britishness to more global matters, World Animal Protection, as well as many other organisations, foreign Thousands of activists and civil society groups have been in Brazil recently for the COP30 People's March.
00:14:04
Speaker
They've been calling for urgent climate action that places animal welfare, human rights and environmental protection at its core. Carlos, I was very inspired by the pictures that I have seen of this, but get fill us in some more details about what's been going on there. Is this cause for inspiration? Is it too little, too late? What what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's good that they joined the protests, but, you know, COP30 has been a failure so far in terms of climate targets and temperature rise has been a a complete farce so far, along with the other COPs, yeah the 29 before and the other parallel events. I don't know. it's it's I guess it's good that Wild Animal Protection was there.
00:14:51
Speaker
i mean, this is this is a long-running organization going on for 75 years now. Their list of achievements is barren. They're kind of pushing for an animal welfare perspective and, you know, so effectively effectively just trying to kind of go with this idea that big, big agriculture is bad, but small agriculture is good. i guess i guess the the good points of this is that it kind of just raises the more awareness to the fact that eating animals and consuming animal products is tied to climate change, you know but you know the use of the use of natural resources, and the use of land, in this case, the Amazon, for soy production, which for the most part doesn't even go to humans. So I guess it's good that they're asking for improved and then to big ah industrial agriculture. But, you know, we should go much further than that. if were Even if if our point is not just animal suffering, but even just thinking of the climate, we really need to move to a fully vegan food system. And there's, you know, there's no amount...
00:15:55
Speaker
of kind of sustainable meat, as they call it, that can solve a climate crisis. In fact, I mean, you could even say that factory farming probably even uses you know leads to less deforestation than ah than kind of just you know kind of like letting the end they're just kind of chopping down the Amazon forest to let the animals graze. That's currently what's happening. So I think it's good that there's animal activists, welfare activists, I guess in this case, protesting alongside events related to to climate change. Linking the two, but I don't think this this is going to achieve much in the in the grand scheme of things. I mean, we can't even as ah as a species, humans in this case, we can't even sort ourselves out to prevent our own existential risks to ourselves as a species by, you know, actively kind of doing the... the the
00:16:48
Speaker
COP30 and kind of agreeing on something, agreeing and then acting acting as if these this was an actual existential risk, let alone for the animal. So I think this is, it's fine that they raise awareness, but this is um not the way, in my opinion. What do you think? Well, I'm being reminded of of our show last week on Vegan Week, where we were again talking about the double-edged sword, I suppose, of increasing your numbers shouting about an issue, but people shouting about the issue for different reasons. And so then you can get conflicting messages and and things like that. I've always been a believer in the personal impact of protesting, even if in some cases,
00:17:30
Speaker
It doesn't actually lead to the direct, bigger scale change immediately from from government or whoever else you're trying to persuade with your protest. I think it' it does something coming together and having a bit of a shout and waving your banners and what have you.
00:17:48
Speaker
i I think there is a power in that. And sometimes it does lead to the direct change you want to see. But i think more often than not, it has a personally galvanising effect. So I think it's great for that. Like you say, there's going to be all sorts of people there for all sorts of different reasons. And that's going to be a bit fuzzy and a bit grey and a bit amorphous. So we would be naive to perhaps expect all of the, quote, world leaders out.
00:18:16
Speaker
elected or otherwise,
Methane Reduction in Agriculture
00:18:17
Speaker
Prince William, who were there um and expect them to completely change their stances and actions and urgency because there's a few thousand people waving banners.
00:18:28
Speaker
And I think it's great that they are out there waving those banners. So I think that's my feeling. I tip my hat to anyone doing any protesting. I think it's, ah you know, we've spoken before about us having different things that we can bring to the table of trying to make the world a slightly better place. Something that Carlos mentioned before is, of course, how much a deforestation in in the Amazon is for food for for animals. And I've met so many meat eaters, people, over the years many who you who who who go oh you know you vegans it's you with your soya that's the fault of uh climate change it's not having the the amazon anymore so i think in a real gentle way there's a bit of activism that i certainly feel able to do to very you know to
00:19:18
Speaker
to to to point out reliable sources to be like, look, this is where it goes. It's for animal feed. It's not me just drinking gallons and gallons of soya milk every day. Although I do do that as well, but I don't feel that's as as big a problem to the world. No, They don't call you Dominic, drink the Amazon dry berry for nothing. of Your impact is still minimal.
00:19:48
Speaker
Thank you for that one, chaps. Okay, talking of, Carlos was talking about ah perhaps naive or or short-sighted strategies from folk. That brings us nicely onto our next story. It comes from Farming UK and it relates to the NFU, the National Farmers Union, talking rather a lot about methane cutting cow feed additives and We have covered Bovia or Bovia, not quite sure how to say it, but that product and similar products are part of the animal ag industry's attempts to reduce
00:20:29
Speaker
the methane emitted by cows by changing what they are fed often things like seaweed or or things like that being put into their food it seems Dominic that not even all British dairy farmers can agree on this it's a contentious topic you've been reading a bit about methane inhibitors and this story what are you are your takeaways from this Well, similar to what we were saying about the soy all being guzzled by vegans, I've met, I can think of one person in particular, one of my vegan friends' mum, who goes, oh, you know, the poor cows, they can't help farting, Dominic. You know, if you're a vegan, you should feel sympathy for them with their gas. And it's like...
00:21:20
Speaker
But no, it's the numbers of them and the ways in which they are intensely bred, intensely kept, intensely fed. You know, it's what we're doing to them. It's not just, oh, you know, what a shame that one of the animals on our earth happens to be a bit gassy naturally. Not at all. Not at all. So on one hand, good that...
00:21:44
Speaker
You know, we are talking about the very, very serious harm that the methane from cows does to our ozone layer, to at all of our lives. You know, we've got one planet, so it's a really good thing to talk about it. But to leap to, like, putting methane-suppressing feed additives into their food... You know, oh, gosh, oh, gosh. I mean, I tend to be a little bit as as well as like wanting the quotable science. ah You know, I also feel a bit like, ah oh, you know, all the things that we're putting in in animals, if we then eat the animals, we're're we're having that too. that That's what we're having in our... in our body awful awful if we do that which you know i'm so glad i don't so yeah they're they're arguing that it'll be a really good thing that you know they've checked out all their you know risk assessments and uh denmark already do something uh comparable there There are many methane cutting things, but it's a bovea that's the only approved one. And of course, farmers would receive subsidies in order to implement this if this is something that they do. So yeah, what a good thing it would be to just not have cattle farming. That's one solution to it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I philosophically agree with everything you've said. I will add that I've got a sneaky feeling this is going to be an additional thing that we're going need to educate folk. about in in the coming years, because I can see it slipping in and becoming a norm.
00:23:30
Speaker
There's some resistance from farmers at the moment, but I can see this becoming a norm that we as animal advocates then have to say, did you realise that this happens? In the same way that we have to say the same thing about pus in milk, about the age of animals when they're killed. Denmark, who
Speciesism and Animal Rights Protests
00:23:46
Speaker
are in many ways very progressive with their approaches with regards to agriculture and climate change and stuff like that, they became the first country to mandate methane reduction methods measures in 2025, requiring farmers to either use these approved additives or raise feed fat levels. I can just see it becoming the norm.
00:24:07
Speaker
And I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. You shall hear what the norm is on Vegan Week, if if nowhere else beforehand. But yes, sneaky stuff, sneaky stuff. Something else sneaky that has been happening in India lately has been, I think we've reported this before, has been the, quote, relocation of stray dogs from public spaces, which of course very often leads to termination and those dogs being killed. It's part of
00:24:39
Speaker
something that, don't know whether it's happening more or it's just being reported more across the world as governments see that it's a terrible PR move to have stray dogs in your town or city. The positive news has been that a silent protest was held last week. Animal activists were it The news article says voiced their strong opposition, although it was a silent protest, but I think we get what they mean. um They were in strong opposition to the Supreme Court's recent directive for this relocation of stray dogs from public spaces. Carlos, it's it's obviously deplorable that this is happening. what What... Do you think that this is happening more or is it just being reported on more and and the the actions of activists like these is is actually bringing it into the public awareness that it's happening?
00:25:33
Speaker
I think it's the latter. i think there's just more, to put it in another way, more citizen journalism, or rather people doing things like these protests who are aware of things, that are are able to organize better and make a big fuss out of it.
00:25:48
Speaker
I would imagine these things have ah been happening forever, pretty much. But I've never heard of so many happening together. as much as as these events. We had the one in Turkey, wasn't it, recently as well, and a bunch of other ones. And Morocco ahead of the Football World Cup in ah five years' time. Yeah, exactly. So there have been quite a lot of these, but I think they've always happened before these big events. It's just that you know, it was with, the you know, the general population didn't have the tools to create their own news and kind of report on. And also to to have the tools to organize amongst each other and kind of create enough critical mass of people to do a meaningful protest like this one. Yeah, so so, you know, effectively this, what we've been hearing is that this sort of speciesism where,
00:26:36
Speaker
you know, all right, it's, it's, there's a minor human inconvenience of having these stray dogs living on the street, but then the solution is basically just to imprison them and put them in these shelters, which, you know, even in the best types of conditions, know,
00:26:52
Speaker
That's not where that a dog should should be. They're very social animals. They should be with humans because we literally bred them to be sociable with humans, although they can form packs as they live on the streets, but they do have relationships with humans around them where they often procure food or or attention. And by putting them in shelters, it's effectively a prison. You know, they don't get a lot of time out of it. What likely happens when the local government says they're going to ah put dogs in shelter is that quickly the shelter reaches capacity and then they have to the excuse to euthanize the dogs.
00:27:26
Speaker
Whereas if the dogs were still on the streets, it would be would be a much harder narrative to say, yeah, we have 10,000 street dogs. That's 8,000 too many. So we're just going to kill 8,000 dogs and leave 2,000.
00:27:39
Speaker
two thousand So they could just put all 10,000 in the space for 2,000 dogs. These are just numbers I'm coming up with. i don't know. Probably these are going to be more dogs in the in that they're taking care of.
00:27:51
Speaker
and And they just go, right, we put all these dogs. Oh, look, there's no space. Now we have to euthanize them humanely. So that just kind of just becomes a narrative, isn't it? To be able to kind of ah kill a large amounts of of dogs. it It's true that, i mean, the the problem the problem, of course, you know with stray dogs is not them being on the streets and inconvenience they cause. The problem is, of course, the you know the unregulated breeding, unregulated sales of dogs. The way to solve a stray dog problem is not by capturing them and euthanizing them, it's by you know catching them, neutering them, vaccinating them.
00:28:26
Speaker
and releasing them. So that that by itself just solves a massive amount of problems, kind of vaccinating them so almost completely solves the problems of them transmitting diseases to humans that they might have. And of course, neutering them kind of solves the problem of them creating more dogs. And if you have that kind of program together with regulation of dog breeding and sales, and when I mean regulation, I mean like a proper regulation, not any, I mean, even here in the UK with our, I would say, fairly good, good compar relatively speaking, animal welfare laws, any, you know, Tom, Dick, and Jane can can can breed dogs and sell them to their neighbors as long as they don't want
00:29:04
Speaker
ah them to be pedigree, it's completely unregulated. I can only imagine that in other countries, there's no laws for this either. i can only imagine that in this case, in India, there's no laws to regulate breeding and selling of dogs. So that just creates an en armm like more and more dogs. And if you don't control this the street dog population with like a catch, neuter, vaccinate and release program, then the solution will always be killing them, which is no solution. at all Thank you for that, Carlos. That was really thorough. And you you gave me certainly lots of lots of insights and and knowledge there that i I didn't have before. I will just finish off by saying, unfortunately, this news article doesn't name any organisation that these activists are associated with. I mean, maybe they weren't, maybe they were just a ah group of concerned local citizens. But um Up the revolution, I say. Well done anyone who's ah voicing silently or otherwise their discontent at something as unjust as this. And in a similar vein, we would normally be cutting straight to Pick for the Week now, but we've snuck in an extra story because...
00:30:14
Speaker
A few months ago, when Dominic was on the show, he read out the names of some people who had publicly got out there, interrupted the 2023 Grand National, delayed it by 15 minutes, and they were put up for trial and they were acquitted. And Dominic, five more have been cleared this week. Why don't you read their names out too? I would love to read their names. It is Robert Gordon, Daniel Kidby, Michelle Farnham, Edward Allnut and Alistair Stewart. And there is the BBC News ah website with a big photo of them looking like really happy outside the courtroom. They had nine-day trial at Liverpool Crown Court.
00:31:01
Speaker
And it was trial by jury. And Michelle Farnham, one of the five, says, this is why trial by jury really matters, because it gives ordinary people the power to say what is morally right. She says the writing is on the wall for the racing industry. It's time horseraing horse riding, sorry, let's say again. It's time horse racing was consigned to the past where it belongs. And this needless suffering is finally brought to an end. It's ah really fantastic that, you know, they did direct action and, the you know, the jury have been on their side. It's it's a wonderful thing showing, ah you know, the positive, positive outcomes. Hats! Hats to them. Hats off indeed. Wonderful, wonderful news. Fantastic stuff. And it seems like there are even more people who are going to be trialled for this in the in the coming weeks because I think 118 people were arrested. So let's ah let's look forward to hearing more juries that have decided that actually this is perfectly okay and who knows what that might lead to or be a good indicator of in the future. Thank you for that one, Dominic. We are now going to take a quick breather,
Vegan Meals in Prisons
00:32:17
Speaker
put the kettle on. When you come back, you will hear our picks of the week. We are featuring German prisons and UK prawn farms. As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless, we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
00:32:46
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. going to spell it all for you.
00:33:01
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:33:12
Speaker
and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:33:18
Speaker
Okay, Dominic, let's come to you first. You are the one who is going to be telling us about German prisons. Why are we talking about German prisons on Vegan Week? Why is it your pick for the week? What's happened? Well, it's a really sad story. There's a court in Munich who have ruled that German prisons are not legally required to provide inmates with vegan meals.
00:33:42
Speaker
They rejected one prisoner's claim that his basic human rights were violated when he was only offered vegetarian, lactose-free meals with the chance to buy his own vegan produce at his own expense. The wishes of individual prisoners cannot always be catered for, given the many faiths and ideologies found in Germany, is what the court argued in its ruling.
00:34:06
Speaker
However, also found that all prisoners should have the option of feeding themselves according to their personal worldviews. They seem to lean in seeing medical and religious reasons as acceptable, but not currently ah veganism. This particular prisoner said, spoke about his ethical grounds, animal welfare, sustainability, and said that his fundamental rights were being violated. I usually choose a cheerful story for my story of the week. And, uh,
00:34:41
Speaker
I don't know. I just think that here in Britain, where we're recording this podcast with, ah you know, Labour MPs talking about what is and isn't British, I think that there's a real there's a real vilification of... them people who are in prisons. ah I do a lot of um work with art and I go into communities and I've been into prisons and I always think when I go into a place, you know, i do work with people who are at risk of homelessness or are homeless. I do work with people who are who are in trouble with the law, but it hasn't yet
00:35:18
Speaker
led to an arrest. always think, you know, i could be there. I could be there. You know, we're all we're all directed by the choices that we make and also luck and also luck. And I think there's a problem with vilification of people in. I think that if we did a survey, think a lot of people would like, well, you know, they're prisoners. They should be lucky they get more than gruel. I think, i you know, i think sadly what that's what people you know, would say. And I think when you actually do go in and and you work in prisoners and you work with prisoners, you see that, you know, however bad an action may be, often that action shouldn't fully define violence.
00:36:04
Speaker
the person that won action, you know, people, people have stories, people have reasons why they're there. Not saying that it forgives them. I'm not saying, oh, open the doors, let them all in the street. But I am saying give them vegan meals. I am saying that. And the typical vegan argument is if you're looking for stuff that's simple, Just give everybody vegan foods. Just do that. There's your simple solution. If you're like, oh, but some people are lactose intolerant. Some people are vegetarian. Just give everyone vegan foods. Yeah, that's your answer. That's your answer. It also helps prisons meet whatever emissions targets they have. Definitely, Carlos. Definitely. Yeah. I think there was an instance, oh, 10 years ago, plus possibly. And I want to say it was in Canada, but I'm saying all of this off the top of my head. And I think there was a Canadian prison or a series of prisons that that chose to make everything plant-based and the reason was for cost. Yeah. And that's an interesting one, isn't it? Yeah, sure. Because part of your argument there, Dominic, was one's deprivation of liberty, isn't it? And...
00:37:22
Speaker
saying, well, you're in prison, so you don't get to choose what you eat, which I personally, doesn't sit comfortably with me. And yes, in terms of accessibility, and of course, in terms of social justice for the animals and the climate and everything, of course, that is the the best option. But yeah, just batch cooking a load of portions of chickpea curry for this particular German prisoner. would would certainly be a solution, wouldn't it? For sure. i mean, how hard can it be? Yeah, exactly. And I said lightheartedly, I'll make it all vegan. Of course, you know, some people might have soya allergies and things that do. but But, you know, what you were saying about cost a moment ago, I have also had the great joy of having my art take me over to work in India for quite a length of time. And it really was a very, very...
00:38:10
Speaker
poor part of the country. I went to a number of different places. I never saw any meat, never saw any. Everything was at least vegetarian. Some stuff had been cooked in ghee, but a lot hadn't. ah Most of it was vegan. I easily ate vegan for the entirety. The only animal product I even saw was was was gay you know like it was it was all curries being cooked and it was because of cost it was because of the the how inexpensive it was as a freelancer i have affluent times i have times where i'm tightening my own belt and i know how easy it is to like buy a load of lentils buy a load of spices you know to make delicious curries from scratch and yeah it absolutely could be a solution
00:38:59
Speaker
for for prisons. Maybe
Ethical Issues in Agriculture
00:39:01
Speaker
that'll be my next job, get myself ah ah cooking curries for Manchester prison. Yeah, sign me in. I thought you were going to say an internship in a Munich prison. Come on, Dominic, come on, please. dont don't Don't expose yourself to that. There's no need for it. Thank you for that one, Dominic.
00:39:21
Speaker
Now for Carlos's pick for the week, I'm normally reasonably happy to tell folk that I attended the University of Exeter. However, for the sake of this next story, let's say I just went a bit further along the ah the coast and went to Plymouth University instead, because ah I'm not particularly proud of this ah next story that does come from the University Exeter. And Carlos, it is ah not a solution to the problems of the seafood industry that we would agree with, I think. God, that was ah this one was hard to read, especially the jubilant celebratory ah tone of this. Oh, wasn't it? God. Yeah, it's like they were patting themselves on the back and saying how amazing they were for finding this out.
00:40:03
Speaker
What happened was the University of Exeter released research promoting the creation of an indoor land-based kink prawn farming industry in the UK. Well, if that's not horrific enough, a kind of factory farming kink prawns,
00:40:18
Speaker
They called it a sustainable seafood revolution. And it's going to be like a closed system aquaculture type setup, which uses tanks and renewable energy. You can see where this is going. They're kind of greenwashing animal abuse. They say it's environmentally superior to imported prawns, not just because of actually importing, but because the traditional way in which they're farmed kind of destroys mangroves and uses a lot of antiabia antibiotics.
00:40:46
Speaker
And they say it's very land efficient, which is 50 times more efficient than pork and beef farming, boosts food security, because we of course we're an island with lots of people, and allows consumers to enjoy seafood. And I'm quoting here because my disgust is enormous.
00:41:05
Speaker
Enjoy seafood with a clear conscience. So thanks, University of Exeter, for opening the the gates to hell for king prawns. It's disgusting, isn't it? I mean, you see the pictures of it. It just looks like a really naff indoor swimming pool.
00:41:20
Speaker
And I mean, Dominic, we've spoken about the the need for precision with words and that words matter. Who's going to be the first to point out the fact that if it's grown in a swimming pool, it's not seafood? No, no, not at all. Not at all. And another, I mean, or you know, regular listeners will know that um in my adult life, I received my autism diagnosis. And the thing about us autistic folks is often we can be very kind of um black and white with our thinking. Not always, but I can be. And like, why doesn't everybody just see this? Why doesn't everyone just see this? And like, i just I just, you know, it just beggars belief why, why you know,
00:42:01
Speaker
People, you know, if this was being done with cats or dogs, you know, or penguins, they'd be uproar. But because it's prawns, because like we don't have like the same attachment to that to the way they look.
00:42:17
Speaker
You know, what a staggering thing. It just makes no sense to me, like the selective care we have in our um in our attitudes towards certain life and not others.
00:42:30
Speaker
I think that if the Labour MP David Taylor from Hemel Hempstead saw this, if he thinks it's un-British to keep penguins in a basement away from natural life, I wonder what he would think of an indoor prawn farm. Let's get him on the show. Let's give him a feeling. But just think of, to quote our friends at Effective Altruism, just think of the counterfactual.
00:42:57
Speaker
Imagine if instead of the University of Exeter coming up with this terrible thing they've created, effectively a new high-tech factory farm. What if they had spent this time kind of working on perhaps creating a plant-based food that tasted like King Prawn's or if yeah had a factor of King Prawn's? or just tasted different, but somehow people enjoyed it.
00:43:18
Speaker
It was like a different palate, different things put on a plant-based plate of food. Instead, it just they just looked at something that was very cruel, found a way to make it even more cruel by cramming the king prawns outside their but natural environment, and then said, look, but it has less emissions, so we've done it's more environmentally friendly, so we've made it better. Yeah, but for who? Yeah.
00:43:42
Speaker
Well, yes. And I think if you're what you know you're you're mentioning taste there, Carlos, in terms of making something taste and feel the same as a king prawn, I think if you are so selective with your eating that only an authentic king prawn, even in 2025, without all that you know money being poured into making lifelike king prawns, if if if that is your biggest source of satisfaction in life and and nothing else will do.
00:44:13
Speaker
i think we need to be looking at who is put in giant swimming pools and farmed, really. like i just I really think anyone who feels that way really needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. you know All
Avian Flu and Biosecurity Concerns
00:44:27
Speaker
the things that are involved in that, and you're saying, no, that has to happen. That's the only thing that's going to make me happy. you know Really?
00:44:35
Speaker
Really? Take a look at yourself. Yeah. would be my feeling. That's not, that's not very inclusive thing for me to say, but it's, um it's so cruel and, oh, we need to get over ourselves sometimes, don't referring one kind of food to another is not a protected characteristic. Therefore, you can, excel you can discriminate against picky eaters. yes I'll carry on my discriminatory behaviour then. Excellent. Well, that's my opinion and you might think it's a load of old tosh or indeed anything that Dominic or Carl have said might be a load of tosh or you might really agree or we might have missed something.
00:45:08
Speaker
Either way, we really want to hear from you. Your opinions matter. And regular listeners of the show will know that we are most authentic when we say that. You're going to need to know our email address to get in touch though.
00:45:20
Speaker
Here it comes. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective, our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:45:41
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today, enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Okay, we've got time for one last story from the last week's news. Here it comes.
00:45:53
Speaker
Dominic, I'm going to ask you a couple of quick questions. First of all, before I sent you this news article, how worried were you about avian flu? Oh, Ant, well, I mean, that's a quite big question. One of the reasons I choose to be just a regular person on this show is to...
00:46:11
Speaker
bring me news like avian flu. In day-to-day life, I don't think about stuff like that. i I don't. I try and be joyful with my vegan actions, my vegan poetry. And I, yeah, so I'm not worried at all is the answer.
00:46:27
Speaker
No, that's perfectly reasonable to protect yourself from that. Having read an article then from Farming UK where Professor Ian Brown, a specialist in avian diseases, has said that the current virus circulating amongst farm flocks is as super infectious as any high pathogenicity avian influenza we've ever seen and is urging poultry keepers to prepare for the worst. How do you feel now? I mean, you know, stories like this are really depressing. They make me feel really, really depressed because the solution is mass killing. That's what what the the actions taken are. Yeah, there's been loads of them, hasn't there? This this story says there's been 28 deaths. cases of highly pathogenic avian influenza on UK farms since October, most of them being in England. it's It's really, really upsetting. Pretty much the whole of the UK bird population that are controlled, farmed, housed by humans are under strict keep indoors orders for context. And
00:47:40
Speaker
Carla, something I notice is that there's a lot of talk around things like avian flu, and we see it again in this article, with this outbreak, folks saying, well, it's too early to predict the scale of this crisis. The risk to public health remains low. This disease doesn't want to be in humans, but it still could happen. I mean, ah that's in a sense, that's not a vegan argument, is it? But it it it might be one that raises people's a awareness or sets alarm bells, might make change happen quicker if they think it's a risk to humans. Yeah, I mean, that's that's one of the arguments for kind of not concentrating animals so much in in in farms and kind of giving them more space. It reduces the the kind of transmission of the virus. But once kind of there's a there's ah an outbreak, actually, the the action is the the opposite, which is kind of to put them all back in the shed, so to speak, and kind of all kind of put them in containment so they can't transmit it outside.
00:48:41
Speaker
of the farm itself. But it's it's still a very distant argument from saying that there's a risk of to humans from this and going from that to ending all farming of animals, isn't it? that's the I think that's the problem. And I bet a lot of farmers are really happy that this is happening because one, it allows them to kind of cram the chickens all together again instead of letting them kind of roam with that with all the complications. Well, when I say roam, they're they're in a big shed, right? It's just, you know, nice it's not like exactly they're running in the fields by themselves. But it kind of gives me them an excuse to kind of concentrate them again and kind of keep closer control. And then, of course, they have insurance, don't they?
00:49:21
Speaker
So this is like a sort of... a bonanza because you literally, you know, you you don't have to go and sell the chickens. You could just get paid for them, ah you know, automatically to put them down. Yeah, so this, I mean, if if if the if us humans were really serious about things like climate change, as we talked earlier on the show, if we were really serious about biosecurity, which is a big word that's being thrown around quite often and ah very concerned about global pandemics and and zoonotic diseases, we'd have, as a species, a plan to transition to transition to a plant-based diet by
00:49:57
Speaker
x year 2030, well, not 2030, but say 2040, 2050. And we'd have complete concrete steps to get to it. And the all the benefits that will come from that, even without talking about the animals, because we know as vegans that it's so hard to convince people to change things based on animal suffering and to take animal suffering into consideration. Just thinking about those humans, we if we were a different kind of species with maybe a bigger sense of self-preservation,
00:50:26
Speaker
we'd be already on the way. And as long as we keep these massive amounts of animals very close to each other, often living in filth, with no veterinary care except you know because there's just so many of them, right? It's impossible to kind of monitor their their health.
00:50:44
Speaker
We're always going to have the risk of these diseases appearing every time because these species, we can't forget that the species we eat, are most of them are very close to us genetically.
00:50:57
Speaker
we Most animals we eat are mammals. Birds aren't that far from mammals either. I'm not talking about the king prawns from earlier, obviously, but that's not a major food source like animals.
00:51:07
Speaker
um like, you know, birds and and mammals are, they're very close to us. So the diseases that affect them and that spread from them, when they mutate, they can very likely mutate into diseases that affect us and have done so in the past, as we know.
00:51:21
Speaker
So one thing leads to another and all this because it tastes better, which is arguable, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely. But like you say, Carlos, we don't learn these things. And I guess that's the issue, isn't it, Dominic? that that Well, it's not the issue, but it's um that humans' inability to ah stop hitting ourselves in in the face is um unfortunately perpetuating this problem for the birds. Yeah.
00:51:51
Speaker
And for ourselves. Yeah, very, very much so. But, you know, we're doing our little bit to try and bring this podcast and champion veganism and all our listeners are doing their little bit for choosing into us and feeling part of a vegan community, which, you know, we can only hope to see grow and grow and grow, you know, put an end to all this.
00:52:14
Speaker
awfulness. That's what we want in it. That's what we want. Exactly. That's what's happening too, isn't it? We see lots of news stories talking about increasing numbers of vegans and percentages and proportions and plant-based food markets expanding and stuff. Yeah, and and often not just number of vegans increasing, but the consumption of animal products decreasing, even if the actual number of vegans is not increasing by itself. There's like there's a consciousness growing.
00:52:41
Speaker
The numbers show it. I mean, even leaving any kind of idealism out of it, the numbers show that there's a a growing awareness of these these issues, especially amongst younger generations, which, thank God, please, younger generations, save us.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yes.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:52:56
Speaker
Indeed. no Wise words. Thank you, chaps. Well, we've come to the end of our news stories that we're going to share with you now. We really hope that you've derived some values, some enjoyment, some education, I don't know, something positive from this show. I'm sure you have.
00:53:14
Speaker
If you have, there's some little things that we might like to ask you to do for us if you've got the time and the inclination. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too.
00:53:32
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
00:53:48
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. Thanks so much, everybody, for listening.
00:54:02
Speaker
The next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out will be Vegan Talk, which will be available from Thursday, the 27th of November, I believe, with Dominic, Carlos, and Anthony. So this crew, if you liked us here, you'd like us even more on the on the next on the Vegan Talk. And the topic is Effective Altruism and Open Philanthropy.
00:54:23
Speaker
Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Anthony. I hope your sore throat gets better very, very soon. And thank you, Carlos. Always a joy to share the space with both of you and your contributions. Cheers, everyone, for listening. I have been Dominic and you have been listening to ah Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:54:51
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
00:55:02
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:55:32
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:55:54
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:56:08
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.