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212- Trump administration to end animal testing?!
69 Plays19 hours ago
This week, Dominic brings us the news that the 'Make America Healthy Again' programme, may involve an end to animal testing in the US. He is also joined by Julie, Mark & Anthony, and together they dissect the week's vegan & animal rights news from across the world.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marineland-beluga-whales-theme-park-says-may-have-to-euthanize-30-animals/
https://www.psypost.org/people-with-dark-personality-traits-show-less-concern-for-animal-rights/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2025-10-07/humpback-whales-eastern-population-numbers-rebound-estimate/105843256
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2025/oct/04/warnings-imports-caged-hen-eggs-ukraine-poland-uk-biggest-suppliers#:~:text=Eggs-,Warnings%20of%20imports%20of%20caged%20hen%20eggs%20as,Poland%20become%20UK's%20biggest%20suppliers&text=Ukraine%20and%20Poland%20have%20overtaken,back%20door%E2%80%9D%20despite%20welfare%20pledges.
https://vegconomist.com/society/vegan-mres-coming-us-military-rations-2027/
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/parked-another-beagle-pack-joins-the-club/
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-pulse/2025/10/06/animal-welfare-meets-maha-00594538
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrj4qqqy7po
https://www.foodingredientsfirst.com/news/world-octopus-day-animal-welfare-food-security.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5v75deewo
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Mark, Dominic & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, hope you enjoy this upcoming episode from Enough of the Falafel. Just so you know that we know, Mark's microphone for this episode wasn't the best.
00:00:11
Speaker
It's not up to our normal standard. You can still understand him, but if this was your first time listening, you might be thinking, Oh gosh, is it always that bad? No, it's not. It's normally much more slick. Anyway, we don't think it gets in the way. So without any further ado, on with the show.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello everyone. If you are looking for vegan and or animal rights news, look no further. You're in exactly the right place. Hang with us and you'll be just fine. My name is Anthony.
00:00:37
Speaker
Joining me for this episode is Dominic, Mark and Julie. But that is enough of the falafel. Let's get on with it. It's time for Vegan Week.
Marineland Controversy and Animal Welfare
00:00:46
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble.
00:00:50
Speaker
That's not what butter is used for. Protein. Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels?
00:01:00
Speaker
Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me. Hang on a minute. You always pay.
00:01:12
Speaker
any form of social injustice has connection with another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give superpowers?
00:01:28
Speaker
No, cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello, hello, hello, hello. My name is Dominic. Thank you everyone for listening to the show. It is great to have you here.
00:01:42
Speaker
Hello everybody, Julie here. This is Vegan Week, our new show where we look through the last week or so's vegan and animal rights news. Hi everyone, this is Mork here. Thank you for joining us. But that's enough of the Flapple. Let's hear what's been going on in the news this week.
00:02:01
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:02:13
Speaker
Okay, go queer. Starting off our news stories from CBS News in Canada. This is an absolute bin fire of a news story. If you ever want to hear why marine-themed animal parks are not a good idea, ah listen to this very carefully. and This is the news that Canada's Marineland theme park are saying that they are going to have to euthanise, kill animals.
00:02:40
Speaker
30 beluga whales unless they get emergency funding. This is not the start of the story. um They've been under heavy scrutiny for the last few years for their treatment of captive animals. They closed to the public last year. They've been trying to sell their, quote, assets, i.e.
00:02:58
Speaker
animals, um ever since. In Canada, it has been been made illegal to hold a whale, dolphin or porpoise captive since some legislature in the last few years. Massive fines are pending if you're doing this.
00:03:16
Speaker
Inspectors have declared that all animals at this marine park ah were in distress due to poor water quality. It's absolutely horrific. And this this statement has has been put out there in in the last week or so saying that the federal government needs to step in.
00:03:33
Speaker
Dominic, it's it's obviously the bottom line here is that animals are suffering and it just shows the tangled mess that these enterprises can get themselves in. it's It's horrid for the animals.
00:03:44
Speaker
It is horrid. It is. Oh, my gosh. You know, what a heartbreaking story. We don't know how it's going to turn out for fear of being a foolish, deluded optimist. Maybe an outcome might be them closing and someone stepping in to.
00:04:01
Speaker
do some kind of getting them into a better place scenario. I know on one of my many tours and travels I've done around the world, I ah went to a place ah for ah farm animals, perhaps not dissimilar to what our own wonderful Julie does with her magnificent sheep for which she is there.
00:04:21
Speaker
And I'd never seen anything like it. and and all of these, yeah it was it was a massive place. It was in Australia, where it was. And it kind of gives us, gave me hope, gave me hope that sometimes there are folks who step in and do wonderful, wonderful things to help animals.
00:04:37
Speaker
So, yeah, maybe it's the kindest thing for them to not step in and subsidise their ongoing business for it to lead to its collapse. But let's just hope that there is some kindness towards the existing animals.
00:04:52
Speaker
It's disingenuous, isn't it, to put out this statement saying, oh, we need federal funding, we need support from the government. It's like the the government didn't ask you to set up this business that's exploiting animals in a way that's clearly outdated. It's literally illegal now.
00:05:07
Speaker
We don't want these animals to be killed. But really, the the park themselves have, you know, it's their doing, isn't Yeah. For fear of comparing this to something completely different, ah I've been in show business for a long time and I'm a lively person who often goes where there are circuses on and the number of circuses that are like without animals now have adapted and have their clowns and just have people going, you know, and I mean, um I'm old enough to remember the days of it being very, very common.
00:05:41
Speaker
to see ah animals advertised in circuses and you know the the idea of oh but think of the art think of the artist how can this possibly go on and there's loads of family entertainment going on with our animals their businesses have evolved and adapted so yeah I think that I hope I live to see a day where there are no marine land attractions if that's the the word doesn't attract me Yeah, not particularly attractive at all. And um yeah,
Whale Population Recovery
00:06:14
Speaker
obviously, the the home for these animals is in the wild, which takes us to our next story, comes to us from ABC News in Australia, where a preliminary report ah to the Australian Federal Department of Climate Change Energy, the Environment and Water, nice snappy department, that one, suggests that there were more than 50,000 Eastern Australian humpback whales in 2024. And
00:06:40
Speaker
positive sounding news there is that that that's around 20,000 more individuals than estimated pre-whaling population of the early 1900s.
00:06:52
Speaker
This report hasn't been peer reviewed yet and it is, as I've said, it's it's all estimated things. So obviously that there could be errors there, but it's you know that's nearly two and a half times the level since efforts have been made to to kind of reduce the impact of of hunting and things like that.
00:07:12
Speaker
The article that we've put a link in the show notes for here, basically says that folk aren't exactly sure what has caused this. There are ah suggestions. And Julie, you ah I mean, you've been focusing on this one. You might have your own ideas, but um it sounds like causes for cautious optimism, I i would say.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a good example of when you leave a reasonably naturally resilient species the heck alone, it can sort itself out, really.
00:07:49
Speaker
I think a couple of things came out of this article that were particularly interesting to me. Of course, it's good news that whaling has stopped and these animals are no longer being killed and and their numbers are recovering.
00:08:03
Speaker
But the statement what the first statement I found interesting in the article was this idea that this rapid rise that has been found in their numbers might soon slow down or stop.
00:08:18
Speaker
as they reach what they call carrying capacity. And that's the maximum population that the environment can sustain. Now, this is another word for all these arguments that vegans, you know, that we put forward when other animals are hunted, that actually, you know, they are self-regulating. And once they get to a certain number, no, they won't perish and die.
00:08:46
Speaker
die worse deaths than being shot or whatever they will just not breed because they just won't have the capacity to do so so I'm really glad that this article is recognizing and they've got a nice phrase for this carrying capacity because I think in my naivety perhaps that that applies to all animal populations in the wild that they will just you know regulate themselves So that was the first thing where I thought, well, hurrah for a bit common sense there and nobody's talking about.
00:09:16
Speaker
And once these whales get far too numerous, you know, we're going to have to go out with our harpoons again. Introduce sharks. Oh, gosh. And the other thing that I love about this article is the end of it. So they are talking about the fact that these whales are a bit versatile and they will go closer to the land than other whales and they're numerous now. So they're kicking about, you know, well, flapping about where people are likely to be in little boats and things.
00:09:47
Speaker
And that could be difficult. You know, that could make things tricky. So they have said to people, you know, please be careful because although it's very tempting to go, oh, look, there's a whale and to sail up close to have a look and everything, that actually if there happen to be a lot of whales in the area all moving away from you at the same time, you you might get into trouble in your boat.
00:10:09
Speaker
So they end with this quote saying, There's so many opportunities to have close encounters with them, but when it's on the whales' terms, that's when it's good.
00:10:24
Speaker
And actually, if you just substitute when it's on the animals' terms, that's when it's good. That is my wish for this entire world.
00:10:35
Speaker
that we could have close encounters with all the beautiful animals on this earth, but on their terms, not ours. Wouldn't that be fantastic? So, yeah, if people learn that lesson when it comes to whales, it would be lovely if they would then extend it to other beings.
00:10:52
Speaker
Well said,
Veganism in the Military
00:10:53
Speaker
Julie. What an excellent... Julie for Prime Minister! Yay! Yay!
00:11:01
Speaker
And ah great to read that in a non-vegan news source, ABC News in Australia. You know, it's it's not someone with an animal rights bent that is pushing forward that message. So that's great. Thank you for that one, Julie. Now, we we get statistics on where people are from in the world listening to this podcast, but we don't get to see individual people. But I imagine and I hope that one person who started listening to the podcast after last week is Rear Admiral Philip Mathias. We quoted him. and He wasn't very happy that, quote, given that we could be on the brink of war with Russia in the UK, it seems strange that the RAF is worrying about the importance of introducing vegan boots.
00:11:46
Speaker
Well, um Philip, if you're listening, sorry, Rear Admiral Philip, if you're listening... um You might not be particularly happy to hear this next story from The Vegconomist who are reporting that it's not just the UK that are going woke.
00:12:01
Speaker
and vegan. The the US s military rations by 2027 are going to include more vegan meals ready to eat. This is kind of like their their ration pack.
00:12:14
Speaker
So this is in two years time, they announced that four of their current vegetarian meals ready to eat are going to be replaced with fully vegan alternatives, which vegconomists say marks a significant shift in military food provisions. Some great advocacy and research by Mercy for Animals has as contributed to this by all accounts. Interestingly, a 2022 survey conducted by Mercy for Animals um suggested that 81% of military personnel supported the inclusion of more plant-based foods and 69% expressed interest in having vegan meals ready to eat themselves, with many respondents saying they would prefer a vegan option if given the choice, citing health and sustainability concerns. Mark, who would have thought that people in the military are being so conscious of these things?
00:13:11
Speaker
what What a revolution we're seeing here. Yeah, I agree there, Ant. And it is very surprising that that this sort of thing is happening when people like Trump, and is it Robert Kennedy, the the the Minister for Health, that the two of them are okay with this, or and and that no one is kicking up a fuss, and that this isn't peak wokeness at its very worst. And it's sort of it's it's slipping through, there isn't any sort of outrage about it. What's also very interesting is that the the vegetarian meals that had been formally on offer are being pushed aside in favor of the vegan meals.
00:13:42
Speaker
So it does reflect the sort of trend in society where vegetarianism, which was once the cutting edge of animal rights advocacy, is being sidelined in favor of the the obvious logical step and it's been replaced with vegan meals.
00:13:57
Speaker
So I have mixed feelings about this because I have mixed feelings about the US Army. and You might fairly describe them as the largest terrorist organization on the planet perhaps i'm not sure if many soldiers listen to this particularly over the us but um i don't mean to apart from rear admiral phillip hutle in yeah i don't mean to imply they're all fascists but given given their history that they have certainly the the us military have done some very dark things and i'm not sure if if people who were victims of them care whether they're they're eating animals or not when they're being oppressed by by the US military. and But it is certainly a step in the right direction. And with figures like 81% of the military personnel supported the inclusion of more plant-based foods and 69% expressed interest in vegan meals themselves.
00:14:47
Speaker
So again, it does reflect the a growing trend in society. The military and police have all been the bastions of the most conservative parts of society.
Dark Personality Traits and Animal Empathy
00:14:56
Speaker
So if they're going in this direction, again, without much fuss, it's a very positive sign.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, we'll definitely take it, won't we? We'll definitely take it. you You mentioned there, Mark, a dark sort of sides to one's actions. um Our next story is is focusing on dark personality traits. This is part of the headline from Psypost. That is a silent P. It's so short for psychology post, I would have thought.
00:15:21
Speaker
ah Their strapline is the latest psychology and neuroscience discoveries. I'm not sure whether this is a bit clickbaity. Let's see what Dominic and listeners think. The headline, people with dark personality traits show less concern for animal rights.
00:15:38
Speaker
um And the the whole link here is they're saying that certain socially aversive personality traits may help explain why some people believe humans deserve moral superiority over other animals. This is according to a new study published in Current Psychology.
00:15:57
Speaker
The research apparently suggests that psychopathy and sadism are linked to stronger beliefs in human dominance over animals, along with lower empathy and a preference for social hierarchies.
00:16:10
Speaker
um The methodology was basically two surveys. It was generally speaking to younger adults, and it was looking at in terms of their outlook on on sort of hierarchies and and who deserves what, basically, but also in terms of one's meat consumption.
00:16:30
Speaker
Dominic, I have to say, I was quite surprised by this. this These seem like very hyperbolic, strong terms. um I've certainly heard misanthropic vegans in the past saying, oh, everyone that consumes animal products is a sadist and blah, blah, blah.
00:16:45
Speaker
But it it surprises me to read this in a ah study that's appeared in a journal. do you think this is clickbaity or is is there something in this? What's been your take?
00:16:56
Speaker
I don't know if there's anything in it or not. Let's say that there is, and ah possible positive, if we take this as true, is that maybe there are other ways to engage with people if they're not going to care about the suffering of animals, then there might be another way to encourage them to lead a nicer way of living. Like, you know, if I meet someone who's a passionate climate change campaigner, and I don't really care about animal suffering, I think, well, you know, that there's there's an overlap. I too care about the environment.
00:17:32
Speaker
Ultimately, that they're they're correlating with something that that I believe in, animal welfare, even if they're not saying that. So let's say let's say that's a possibility. I wonder if all of this is nonsense. That's what I wonder. That's what I wonder.
00:17:47
Speaker
You know, as a person who goes in and, you know, my job, I do poetry stuff with people in all kinds of communities, and I do believe, and it's just my personal belief, this is not a scientific study, but I think people are people.
00:18:02
Speaker
People people. I was in Burnley today, not necessarily the world's capital of veganism, and the folks there, er they had a vegan poet come in, and one woman made a whole load of vegan treats for everyone, 25 people there, and everybody loved them.
00:18:20
Speaker
I was out on tent talks thinking, oh no, it's going to one of them where everyone's like, oh, this is disgusting and it didn't It wasn't disgusting. She made biscuits. She made protein bars. She made chocolates. It was amazing. And yeah, I just think judge people by how you come across them. And like i I've been into schools. I say my vegan poetry everywhere. I go into... High schools where I'm told there are behavioural problems and certain teenagers have been marked off as they can't be saved.
00:18:59
Speaker
And they engage fantastically. i I think dark personality types is inherently problematic. I i don't know if I believe such things exist.
00:19:10
Speaker
What do you reckon, Mark? and As someone who worked previously for two decades in mental health, I used to be a mental health nurse and I used to work in intenive intensive care units for the most unwell people in whatever given town I was working in. What I did notice was that there is an ability for a lot of people, for most people, to be selectively psychopathic or sadistic towards certain groups.
00:19:32
Speaker
or a certain species. Particularly when we're talking about a species in society, when it comes to the ill treatment of animals, of non-human animals, the sort of, it's it's open season for a lot of people they they feel that they can get away with anything that they want to in terms of behavior towards animals but when it comes to dealing with people they're actually quite okay because they've learned that it's it's in their own interests to be not sadistic or psychopathic towards people for instance who are trying to help them so they're intelligent enough to be able to discern between when it's okay and not okay for themselves to behave in ways that are completely unacceptable to other people particularly when it comes to animals because they they can't report a crime and a lot of people also don't really see them as being capable of being a victim so ah you you people can be selectively psychopathic when it comes to
00:20:23
Speaker
treatment of particular groups of people, like back in the days when slavery was legal, a slave owner it might be, and typically were, upstanding members of their society, church-going people who ran businesses and were very polite to their neighbours, but were completely sadists when it came to their they are slaves. I'm using air quotes here. So these personality traits can be selective in their application. But also everyone's capable of change, aren't they? Everyone's capable of change. I've worked in shelter accommodations with older people.
00:20:54
Speaker
I've seen people go vegetarian and vegan really late in life where you've been like, oh you know, hope for them. And people who were like, yeah, I used to work on a farm. I used to do this. So I think that, you know, we are...
00:21:07
Speaker
susceptible to our brains developing to those who influence us developing we're all in a constant state of change and are influenced by the world and the situations around us so yeah i totally agree and the the reason that tactics like the the cube of truths are so successful or all factory farming and so on to the general public. And when people actually see this up close, they do tend to be really shocked, which means that most people are not psychopathic status, that they're ignorant rather than bad, you know? Well, I think that's my biggest kind of contention with this article is that I completely take what you're saying, Mark, in terms of like people can have these tendencies.
00:21:55
Speaker
and they can be brought out with regards to a speciesist society. But the fact is that like this this study only had like about 300 people in it, and the headline that they're putting forward in this particular news source is that people with dark personality traits show less concern for animal rights.
00:22:14
Speaker
Well, how many people of this 300 are sadists or whatever? it it It seems like a really... It's a missed opportunity, I think. Like, the the point you're making, Mark, in terms of like, yes, because speciesism is allowed in our world, it kind of enables that side of people to come out in a way that generally people have learned is not socially acceptable with humans.
00:22:38
Speaker
That's the takeaway, but it feels like this article, they're just saying, oh, there's a load of sadists and all these sadists don't like animals either. It's like, that that's that's not a point. I don't think anyone's interested
Animal Welfare in Food Production
00:22:49
Speaker
in that.
00:22:49
Speaker
I'm not anyway. We'll move on. Yeah. so Because I said so. But yes, thank you. Thank you for all the all the comment on that one. Let's move on to a couple of stories from the UK. We've not featured any from the UK yet.
00:23:03
Speaker
This one comes to us from The Guardian. Again, talking of clickbaity headlines. Warnings of imports of caged hen eggs as Ukraine and Poland become UK's biggest suppliers.
00:23:15
Speaker
Now, what it does say later in this article is actually only 12% of the UK's eggs are imported. So whilst Ukraine and Poland have become the UK's biggest exist suppliers of eggs, still 88% are coming from the UK.
00:23:33
Speaker
And the point that several people are making in this article is that whilst there might be, quote, stringent welfare measures that are in place for UK eggs, obviously we might disagree with that from an animal rights point of view, but whilst these might be in place in the UK,
00:23:51
Speaker
Those are not the case in Ukraine and Poland. This is a ah generalization. Julie, you've been taking a look at this one, as I've been saying, um ah from a vegan and animal rights point, that there are going to be things that we draw more attention to rather than the fact that, oh, what are all these Ukrainian and Polish eggs coming in for? But what have you been your main takeaways from this?
00:24:15
Speaker
Well, the first thing is just the shocking numbers we're talking here, because although it's only 12%, so far this year, that was 8 million kilograms of egg products from the Ukraine alone.
00:24:30
Speaker
You know, that's a serious amount of eggs. And the thing is here, as people might know who are sort from the UK, we banned these battery hen eggs.
00:24:42
Speaker
the wire cages where they don't even have a solid floor to stand on a and they're really crammed in. and We banned them in 2012 but in the Ukraine that's the kind of go-to way that hens for eggs are raised and kept unfortunately. So that's the kind of, that's the thing.
00:25:06
Speaker
We still have hens in cages here so You know, we' we're we're not 100 miles away from the battery hen scenario, but and and even some of the free-range stuff is pretty hideous in practice, as we know from undercover investigations.
00:25:24
Speaker
So anyway, these tariffs are suspended at the moment so on things coming from the Ukraine into the UK, and there's another two years of that to go. It doesn't affect the eggs that people can buy in supermarkets, but it does affect the eggs that people are consuming in restaurant food, you know, in food you eat in cafes and outside and ingredients, you know, in things ah sort of in proust and processed foods.
00:25:55
Speaker
as well so not the actual eggs in a box scenario from the supermarket and of course when people say you know oh I only have free range eggs and all the rest of it they might they might it's not much better but nobody knows what the eggs are that are in processed foods where their provenance is and and battery hen eggs you know i are used for these things and and the same when people eat in restaurants and things So ah that kind of thing is hidden for people.
00:26:29
Speaker
So we can tell our egg consuming friends, they're probably best off just staying away from anything. If they are that kind of person who's got those kind of, oh, well, it's okay if they're free range, I'll only have free range. Well, they can't guarantee that. So if that's their take, they're better off just not having eggs at all, really.
00:26:50
Speaker
Disappointing but not altogether surprising that this article only mentions that this is a bit of a scandal because it's impacting on UK egg farmers.
00:27:02
Speaker
It doesn't mention anything about just how horrific the you know the whole battery hen egg production process is. And it only makes mention of animal welfare regulations in terms of their cost.
00:27:16
Speaker
ah So and financially, so yeah, not a very sympathetic article. But my take from that is really just, as I say, to say to the people, and I know tons of people like this, who say, oh, well, all at the eggs are consumer free range. They're okay.
00:27:32
Speaker
Firstly, no, they're not okay on any level. But also you don't, you cannot say that that's definitely... all that you're consuming. And i would I would say you can almost categorically say the opposite in that, you know, for for five years of my life, my income was was from the food trade. You know,
Hunt Saboteurs and Activism
00:27:51
Speaker
I was running a cafe, I was running a restaurant and you want to keep those ingredients costs as low as you possibly can.
00:27:57
Speaker
And so I would say if you check an ingredients label or you read something at a restaurant, unless it specifically says free range eggs, they they will be using the cheapest things they can lay their hands on.
00:28:10
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's going to be categorically the opposite. No, you're absolutely right, Julie. And thank you for that one. Let's feature something from the Hunt Saboteurs Association. Nice positive story for them. Short and sharp and simple.
00:28:24
Speaker
The Dorset-based park beagles have folded. That is according to Pro Hunt Lobby Group, the Countryside Alliance. They're doing a bit of a farming UK there and bringing us their own negative news so that we do we don't have to go looking for it ourselves.
00:28:38
Speaker
This is similar to the Sandhurst and Old Shop beagles, which last week, folded and They've become what is now called a hunt club, which I'm a little bit confused about. Maybe Mark will have a bit more insight on this. But um it basically means they've given up their hounds and their staff.
00:28:55
Speaker
So they they do continue to exist. but in name only. And this is a trend that we're seeing across the country over the last few years. Mark, do you have any insight as to what what does that mean then that they're staying a club, they exist in name only? I mean, presumably they'll still do stuff or would they join up with other hunts or is it just that they're losing their infrastructure as a as you know they've not got staff or or animals anymore?
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm not too sure, actually. it's It's sort of a new term to me. But what I can say is that and on, say, a wet Monday morning, and if I'm feeling a little bit down in myself, and I look out the window and it's lashing down with rain, there are two things that I do to cheer myself up.
00:29:38
Speaker
One is I go online and and look at the lack of Catholic priests there are in Ireland, because it's a number of falling all the time. And I look at how how much the the the hunting scene in the UK is in free fall.
00:29:52
Speaker
Now, when I was living in Hertfordshire, I was there for many years throughout the 90s, and our local air hunt that we used to stab week in, week out was the Vale of Aylesbury hunt, who had been around for about 70 years and had been the victim of hunt sabotage since the very get-go. I think Ronnie Lee used to stab them back in the early 70s.
00:30:11
Speaker
they They've been continuously stabbed since then, and without
00:30:19
Speaker
final death throes basically. What they've done since 2002 is the Vale of Ellsbury collapsed. They there are businesses so they so so when they run out of money when we make it too expensive for them they do collapse.
00:30:32
Speaker
The Vale of Ellsbury folded and became and I'm going to read this half from the internet, and they they they they were there for a while called the Vale of Ellsbury and Garth and South Berks and Old Berkeley and South Oxfordshire and Woodland and Hertfordshire Hunt.
00:30:51
Speaker
So all those different names used to be single standalone hunts. that folded because of pressure from saboteurs and from publicity into this really long-winded one hunt and now they've renamed themselves the Kimberwick Hunt and they've been active since 2010. So <unk> not too sure what the distinction between a club and ah a hunt is. Maybe the a difference is is that is that the club is is no longer a business. it It doesn't exist to to meant to make money anymore. It is simply
00:31:22
Speaker
gathering point for like-minded individuals, basically. what What it does do is it reflects the impact that the badly written, but still sometimes effective and ban on hunting with dogs and law, which which which came into effect in 2005, I think. So what what is happening is that, especially with beagle packs, so any non-horsebound hunt, any foot pack where the hunters are on foot, as well as the saboteurs, instead of on horses, it means that they're theyre they're harder to locate in the countryside when they go up, but they're really easy to satisfy.
00:31:57
Speaker
sabotaging the hunt anytime that they try and set the beagles onto a scent. You sort of call them back and and this can go on for a while until they, these days they simply just give up. But back before the act came into place, they they would try and physically attack you and it would it would always lead to violence. So what what sort of happened over time is that we sort of wore them down because they go out there to enjoy themselves and the so and the supporters ta ta tag along to see ah to see a good ah good morning's hunt.
00:32:24
Speaker
If we're out there sort of sabotaging it continuously, it means that we suck out all the fun and take it ourselves. And we have a great time and they have an awful time. So it means that there's less and less supporters that go out that that pay their annual dues.
00:32:38
Speaker
And the hunt goes into a financial freefall because it can't. can all it can no longer afford to exist it costs a lot of money to house and feed a pack of hands the main guys hunting are usually employed they are actually paid to go out and do that so it is a business and if we can sabotage the financial flow money to them it quickly collapses so i think maybe the distinction between um a hunt and a club is that a club has given up the ability to try and make money and employ people and it being a profit-making enterprise and and and it is now just a club of, as I say, of like-minded individuals. So it does reflect the impact that the law has had and the saboteurs have had
00:33:21
Speaker
The law states that you can take these dogs out on a walk, but you but you can't set them after a wild mammal. So as soon as they try and do that, at the saboteurs either step in or they do that and they also call the police.
00:33:34
Speaker
And because these these ah guys aren't as rich and as well connected as their fox hunting brethren, it means that the police are a lot more inclined to actually come out and stop these guys from hunting. So ah the beaglers themselves, as soon as saboteurs show up, they they will typically just pack up and go home.
00:33:51
Speaker
Whereas in the old days, they they would actually phone the police and the police would come down and attack us and the hunters would with ah join in. But now because it's against the law, they have no more feet to stand on, essentially, and they will just turn around and go home.
00:34:04
Speaker
So if you if you go onto the Hunt Saboteur's website, it will be and endless accounts of saboteurs turning up at a Beagle Pack and the Beagle Pack immediately just going home and doing what we call the walk of shame and walking past all the saboteurs have their camcorders and phones out and are recording this and recording for any transgressions of the law.
00:34:22
Speaker
The Beagleers know this and they know that they can't they can't continue with without what they're doing, that they can't fund the police anymore. It's us doing that. it's It's great to see. As I say, it's it's one of the things that cheers me up endlessly on any given day that I'm feeling a bit depressed.
00:34:36
Speaker
The lack of priests in Ireland and the lack of hunting in the UK. Long may it continue. And as this article states, ah the government consultation on the Hunting Act is set to begin soon. and We've got an episode coming out on Thursday, which features Philip from North London. Hunt Sabs really recommend giving a listen to that one too. Thank you for that one, Mark.
00:35:00
Speaker
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we are going to be hearing Dominic, Julie and Mark's picks of the week. We are focusing on rivers in the UK, octopuses in Spain and making America healthy again.
00:35:17
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless, we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show. So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. i'm going to spell it all for you. Zencaster is Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R
00:35:51
Speaker
dot com, then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:36:03
Speaker
and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
Debate on Phasing Out Animal Testing
00:36:10
Speaker
Okay, Dominic, let's start with your pick for the week. It's the second mention in the show for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Maybe he'll be our new listener of the week. Quite unlikely pioneer of phasing out animal testing, but that is indeed what he's doing as part of his Make America Healthy Again plan.
00:36:31
Speaker
Bit less controversial than some of the ah recent announcements that ah the American government has been making about ah medical things but that's that's for another podcast why is this your pick for the week dominic Well, I was given the choice of stories and the story about dark personalities was certainly one you've heard i had much to say about.
00:36:54
Speaker
But I chose this one because I don't know what I think about it. I don't know. You know, i know we have listeners over in America. I'm not American.
00:37:05
Speaker
I know enough to know that I'm not the biggest fan of Donald Trump. That's an understatement. And people are saying that this is left leaning situation for Donald Trump and his his ah his folks to be in.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has said that phasing out animal testing is part of his make America healthy again plan. ah He's asked his agencies to refine high-tech methods of testing chemicals and drugs that don't involve killing animals.
00:37:41
Speaker
And he thinks phasing out animal testing and using the new methods will help figure out what is causing certain chronic diseases. diseases. Now, a spokesperson from PETA, Emily Trunnell, is saying no one likes to see suffering.
00:37:57
Speaker
The animal welfare benefits are very obvious to most people. I think that Kennedy is interested in doing things very quickly. ah The article in the Politico says ah Kennedy signed this off because he believes enabling scientists to move quickly and inexpensively in drawing conclusions about chemicals and drugs working ah will be.
00:38:25
Speaker
good for for for all kinds of reasons. Now, I don't know. I don't know. Like, we have spoken on the show before about how animal testing is a load nonsense. You know, animal bodies are completely different to human bodies. So when animal testing is complete, human testing happens anyway. So why this horrible, cruel, unnecessary step?
00:38:48
Speaker
Is this ant? Is this a case of a little bit when I was saying sometimes I chat to folks who are vegan for reasons not to do with caring about animals. I think, oh, well, it's a good thing. At the end of the day, it's a good thing.
00:39:05
Speaker
Is this a good thing, Ant? Is this a good thing? Does it matter? Does it matter what the motives of the the government is? Does that matter? Well, I think um the phrase, a stopped clock is right twice a day comes to mind with this one. I i feel like the the current US administration are really chaotic.
00:39:26
Speaker
The fact that they're making a decision that as animal advocates, we can be like, oh, Well, I mean, that's an unexpected bit of good news. Yeah, great. i I think, I don't think it matters because I just would have thought that, let's say there's a ah reaction to the current US government and the next administration kind of responds to that and is a, let's say it's a Democrat government.
00:39:51
Speaker
Are they going to undo this? I would imagine probably not. I would have thought it's it's quite a lot of work to unpick these things, um especially because it is it's easier to continue animal oppression.
00:40:05
Speaker
It's harder to start new animal oppression, if that makes sense. So I personally don't think it is a problem. I'd be interested if Julie and Mark think think any different, or ah of course our listeners too. But Yeah, I think we take this as a fluky win.
00:40:21
Speaker
Obviously, there's a few more hoops it's got to go through before it it's definitely put in place. But i I don't think this is a sign of them doing anything else that's kind of humane or that, they like you said, at the top, Dominic, this is being seen as like, oh, well, actually, this might help them gain some left-wing constituents so or whatever. ah I don't think it's because of that. It'll be too with money or speed or something, won't it? Yeah, this is the same Robert robert F. Kennedy who's part of the yeah gang saying things like, you know, that that autism is caused by certain drugs. I mean, you know, I'm an autistic man. I work with autistic children all over. You know, that's a deeply...
00:41:03
Speaker
Cruel and completely untrue, quantifiably untrue thing to say. he's ah He's a bad person saying bad things for sure, for sure. but the The painkiller that they were saying caused autism um wasn't on the market for 10 years since autism was first like diagnosed. So it's like even just from that, it's it's completely nonsense. And as as you say, Dominic, anyone who who's met anybody with autism would know like that.
00:41:32
Speaker
How on earth can you link those two things? But um yes, chaotic government, but well I'll take this outcome personally. There is an unfortunate coincidence in history, but particularly in the modern animal animal day rights movement, where you have had some very right-wing people who seem very concerned about the plot of animals.
00:41:49
Speaker
I've looked into this and on the most part, seems to be a genuine concern. And as despicable as all the rest of their politics and mindset is, some I've met some Nazis who seem very concerned about particular don't. So it is a weird mix of two outlooks, but it can happen.
00:42:09
Speaker
And maybe in this case, this is the end result of it. in And Trump's administration is highly chaotic. It's a bit like watching, say, ah horse enter a hospital.
00:42:20
Speaker
You aren't sure what's going to happen. but you know that probably most of it is going to be bad, but some of it might be good. And in this case, maybe it's a good thing. So it's a win that we should take. I suspect the motivation is money, like cutting out process to get more drugs sold more quickly. I would think that that would be the probable motivation rather than in any case, animal concern in this situation.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yes. Well, more, more data might reveal what the the motivation is, but, um, If the motivation was animal concern based, they would be then shutting down other forms of animal exploitation and slaughter at the same time and they're not.
00:43:00
Speaker
So I think it is just a recognition that animals in research is bad science and we've got better science like AI and things now that are lucrative and that we can use.
Opposition to Octopus Farming
00:43:13
Speaker
I think that's at the bottom of this with my uninformed. Yeah.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yes, indeed. Indeed. Thank you for that one, Dominic. Julie, let's move on to your pick of the week now. You have picked a story that is referring to World Octopus Day, which I didn't know was a thing, and a big campaign from Compassion in World Farming, and and indeed a report from them, warning of the growing threat of octopus farming on on animal welfare, food security, and marine ecosystems. do you want to tell us a bit more?
00:43:48
Speaker
Yes, I will. So Compassion and World Farming is described in this article as an animal rights group. I was reading the article waiting to see where the animal rights group was going to get mentioned and then I realised they were referring to the authors of this report.
00:44:05
Speaker
Compassion and World farm Farming are an animal welfare group. So anyway, they have warned in their report that octopus farming would cause severe animal suffering. Well, that's putting it lightly. You know, I mean, these animals would be losing their lives, never mind suffering.
00:44:25
Speaker
That it would disadvantage humans by depleting wild fish stocks because the octopuses would have to be fed fish that humans could be eating. They have urged the European Union to adopt a ban.
00:44:41
Speaker
just like some US states have already done. The kind of good news on this topic is that a Spanish company who richly deserves to have their name mangled by my Scottish ignorance called Nueva Piscanova were hoping to open the world's first octopus farm and they got their rip proposal rejected by the Canary Islands government last year.
00:45:12
Speaker
They're entitled to submit a revised proposal. There is no sign publicly that they've done so and also I guess they could take their idea to another part of the world.
00:45:24
Speaker
I don't know, the Ukraine? I don't know. There are moves to ban octopus farming in Spain and a legislative proposal is going to be debated later this year. So it's not too late to take some action here actually. If you Google campaign to ban octopus farming you will find lots of places where you can sign a petition or send one of these emails that's pre-populated that you just personalise.
00:45:52
Speaker
And if you don't feel confident going on sites that you don't recognise, PETA's got one. I've signed their email and sent their email off. So you can have a say in banning octopus farming.
00:46:06
Speaker
So anyway, back to the Compassion World farming. They're saying that it's not possible to slaughter farmed octopuses in a humane way.
00:46:17
Speaker
I know they're an animal right welfare organisation, but I hope they're not trying to imply that there's a humane way to slaughter any living creature for food.
00:46:27
Speaker
These Nueva Pescanova people have said in response that their chosen slaughter method would, and I quote, involve proper handling that would avoid any pain or suffering to the animal.
00:46:43
Speaker
You know, how is that even possible? They're saying as well, there's no scientifically validated knowledge about an octopus's intelligence or whether they are more intelligent than any other marine species that are already farmed.
00:47:00
Speaker
Well, do you know what? That's not even an argument to make. a Because, you know, it's like saying if somebody else is already doing something that is utterly devoid of any moral reason, disgustingly cruel and destructive, that means it's okay for other folk to do it then, is it?
00:47:19
Speaker
You know, it's just like, why? The European Union doesn't currently protect octopuses, but the European Commission is expected to revise its animal welfare regulations to include not just octopuses, but other folk in their family, the cephalopods.
00:47:38
Speaker
So that's squid and cuttlefish and these people. The problem with all of this is that people are getting this message that because too much fishing's been going on, that they kind of think they're doing something sustainable and a bit right on by eating other wee creatures from the sea instead of fish and everything.
00:47:59
Speaker
And We don't want them to be doing that, of course. And even by their own logic, it's the wrong thing to do. you know, because these animals, farmed octopuses, for example, ah as alluded to in this report, they would need a load of fish in the first place to be feeding them.
00:48:19
Speaker
And also the carnists' food miles argument that they keep coming out with and would absolutely tie them in knots there as well, you know, because these animals are not local to, certainly not to us in the UK, for example.
00:48:34
Speaker
doesn't stop you seeing in Morrisons a wee octopus in a packet, the whole thing, just... you know, in a package. It's wee eyes, everything, it's whole body and everything like that.
00:48:47
Speaker
Just, I mean, any slaughtered animal is is awful and upsetting for for us to see. But that, I just think there's so many people really would would balk at that.
00:48:59
Speaker
People who were fed meat from you know certain animals when they were babies and children and didn't know any better and have just continued that habit, I can see some kind of excuse for them continuing until they're enlightened otherwise.
00:49:16
Speaker
But not many people grew up eating octopuses. So, you know, let's be progressive people out there and leave animal consumption to people, you know, from the past and go forwards instead of inventing new ways of being stuck in that kind of mindset.
00:49:38
Speaker
I think you're absolutely right, Julie, is the whole thing of, well, it kind of relates to what we were saying about animal testing. Like in a sense, once you've progressed beyond a certain point, it becomes harder for animal abuse to go backwards.
00:49:52
Speaker
And it seems to be that's the resistance to this at the minute, like people in the Canary Islands saying, no, we don't want this coming to our part of the world. And and hopefully that that continues that, that kind of resistance to know we don't want to start this new thing because there doesn't seem to be this massive scale heritage for this industry that, that might be at saving grace and certainly hope so.
Environmental Issues from Farming
00:50:18
Speaker
Certainly hope so. Thank you for that one, Julie. Mark, let's finally hear about your pick for the week. This is from the UK. It's from the BBC. Thousands joined the biggest ever UK environmental lawsuit over river pollution.
00:50:34
Speaker
It's featuring the River Why, Rivers Why, Lug and Usk. We've touched on this on previous episodes, but the big news this week is that this has now been filed at the High Court and and a lot of people have signed up to it, haven't they? Yeah, so almost 4,000 people have signed up to this lawsuit and they're arguing that the state of these rivers in recent years has severely affected local businesses, property values and the people's enjoyment of the area. And they're seeking substantial damages from the firms, which are Avara Foods, Freeman's of Nuant and the Welsh Water Company, who all deny these claims, of course.
00:51:12
Speaker
So, Celine O'Donovan from the law firm Le Dei. said the case was the largest brought in the yeah UK over environmental pollution in the country on three counts. The number of claimants, 4,000, the geographical scale of the damage, and the total damages claimed.
00:51:27
Speaker
Those who have joined the group, group legal claim, all either live or work alongside the rivers or use them regularly for leisure activities like swimming and canoeing. They want the courts to order a clean up of the rivers as well as compensation. So it's a combination of chicken manure,
00:51:43
Speaker
from the possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of chickens that are cooped up in these hellholes called free-range And sewage spills are blamed for having for harming water quality and suffocating fish and other wildlife.
00:51:58
Speaker
The wye, in particular, has become symbolic of widespread concerns over the declining state of the UK's waterways in recent years. As many as 23 million chickens, quarter of the UK's poultry production, are raised in the river's catchment areas. 23 million.
00:52:14
Speaker
So um this actually reminds me of a few things at over here in New Zealand. A few hours inland from me, there is a river called the Whanganui River.
00:52:25
Speaker
And because of the Maori outlook on life and nature and their and their position in it, they have managed to force the government to declare the Whanganui River, which is a really long river that flows for years.
00:52:41
Speaker
a couple of hundred K, I think they they have granted it legal personhood status. So similar to the way a corporation like McDonald's can claim to be a legal person in court.
00:52:51
Speaker
Now the Wanganui river is considered to be a legal person in court over here. So the river can sue people. actual people, for damages.
00:53:03
Speaker
Now, I'm not sure if that's actually happened. It's been in place on the legal books since 2017. I'm not sure anything's happened around that positively because the state of the water quality in New Zealand and probably...
00:53:15
Speaker
Definitely everywhere else that um animal agriculture happens is really bad. So if you're looking at a Lord of the Rings movie or something and and you see this pristine, outstanding beauty here, and it is really outstanding, what you're not noticing is the state of the rivers here. And 65% of all the rivers in this country on both islands are unsafe to touch. there You are advised to not swim in them, to not to not allow your pets swim in them, and to not fish from them because the animals, the few animals that live in them are at dangerously polluted.
00:53:45
Speaker
And that's almost exclusively as a result of the dairy industry. There is, I'm not sure if I've mentioned this on this show before, there is a lake a few hours north of me called Lake Fanta.
00:53:56
Speaker
It's nicknamed Lake Fanta. Its real name is Lake Waikara, but it's called Lake Fanta because it's the same color as Fanta Soda Pop. It practically fizzes. I was there once, myself and my family were driving south when we used to live in Auckland, and we noticed this big river off to the side of the motorway and decided to go off down smaller road to get to the river to have a picnic there.
00:54:19
Speaker
And we could we literally couldn't have picked a more polluted river on the planet. It's up there in the top 10 most polluted bodies of water on planet Earth. And that's entirely because of two decades, a mere two decades of dairy industry in that area,
00:54:33
Speaker
So that particular area, Waitomo, it's home to about a quarter of the the dairy herd in this country, which is massive. And loads of spinach, all the pee and poo from the cows, which is filled with nitrates from the amount of chemicals that these animals are given, it flows into this river. and 20 years, it's turned this ecosystem that took millions of years to develop a pristine body of water into something that bubbles and fizzes and is colored orange.
00:55:03
Speaker
There is a big, huge public safety sign at the entrance to the river saying, don't go in this river, don't allow your pets to go into this river, don't eat anything that comes out of this river. The only thing that things that live in the river are some emaciated eel. Everything else has been annihilated.
00:55:18
Speaker
The day and over in England and everywhere else are completely unapologetic about this. Any time that groups like Greenpeace try and get something done about it, there is a fringe right-wing group, a bit like the Reform Party over in the UK, called Groundswell.
00:55:33
Speaker
And they're made up of farmers who fight tooth and nail against any legislation that stops them from polluting the environment here as they wish. So it's an obvious by-product of the dairy industry which is a completely unnatural industry it is essentially a war on nature and the end results of this war on nature by the dairy industry is decimated rivers so despite New new Zealand's pristine nature sort of presentation it's actually been destroyed by farmers who consider themselves always on the Indian media when they're being brought brought up about this that they they describe themselves as the backbone of the nation and
00:56:13
Speaker
they are not they are breaking the back of the nation by the pollution that they cause well it's really interesting this this story here like the response from the the chicken farmers um avara foods that the the response that is quoted in here is saying well we employ about 1500 people and our chicken is produced to standards that are amongst the highest in the world it's like what that That's completely irrelevant.
00:56:39
Speaker
Like the charges are that your chicken shit's going in the river. Like it doesn't matter how many people you employ. It doesn't matter how like great your chicken standard is compared to other producers. Like that the claim here is that you're putting the shit in the river.
00:56:53
Speaker
Like, have you got anything to say about that? Well, if if this is the the best that they can do, if this is the the the highest farming practices on the planet and it is killing the rivers in the area, if that's the best they can do, then it's nowhere near good enough.
00:57:06
Speaker
So they should cease and... Let's stop then. They should cease and desist. It is really good to see people finally rising up around this. I mean, we've been screaming from the rooftops around this for a decades.
00:57:17
Speaker
It's only when it's in people's faces and its ah and it directly affects them and their own enjoyment of swimming in a safe body of water then people react and and we see this all the time it's only when their backs are against the wall that people tend to react in an appropriate way until then they're they're prepared to sort of forget about it and turn a blind eye so it is interesting it will set a precedent and it will affect factory farms and the poultry industry and the dairy industry around the UK and around the world potentially as a result. So it's a very good thing. I'm looking forward to seeing what the legal outcomes of this are.
00:57:52
Speaker
Surely the the courts cannot ignore this or rule in favour of the factory farms and the and the and the industry, but we'll wait and see because the government, as we know, are in cahoots with these industries and always have been and they wield an enormous amounts of power over ah governments and local councils.
00:58:11
Speaker
So it is something to keep a close eye on. um And it will, as I say, set a precedent for future court cases around this sort of thing. Yes, and this this will be reported on widely. It it pops into my newsfeed whenever there's any news on this. In fact, I've had, don't know about you three, but I've had sponsored adverts from Lee Day kind of saying, have you been affected by this? I don't know whether they kind of know my geographical area is not a million miles away from these rivers, but i like I'm getting a lot of lot of content around this one. So we will definitely share news of this one as the case develops.
00:58:50
Speaker
Thank you, Mark. and What is brilliant about having Mark and julie and dominic on the show is that we are not short of opinions and we love that and we love hearing your opinions to listeners but you need to know how to get in touch with us so here's a reminder of how to do so To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
00:59:13
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:59:25
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, just time for one last story. Now, do not adjust your sets. I'm not repeating a story we've been reporting on however many times in the last two and a half years of this podcast.
00:59:43
Speaker
The European Parliament has this week voted to ban the use of words like burger or steak to describe their plant-based variants. This has been going back and forth and different countries keep saying different things.
00:59:55
Speaker
This is the latest. And to make things more confusing... This proposal needs the backing of the European Commission. So that's the executive arm of the EU.
01:00:06
Speaker
And then the governments of the 27 member countries need to back this to make it law. So this is kind of like the first step in the pushback for this.
01:00:17
Speaker
um It was 355 247 majority was victory, but certainly not...
01:00:22
Speaker
majority vote so was a victory but certainly not Unanimous. Céline Imart, who's the French member of the parliament who led this initiative, said, let's call a spade a
Labeling of Vegan Products
01:00:34
Speaker
spade.
01:00:34
Speaker
Marketing plant-based products using meat labels is misleading for the consumer. So we've got to assume then, Dominic, that they're you know if this goes through, then burgers aren't going to be called burgers anymore. They're going to be called cylindrical or circular discs of cow flesh. sausages are going to be called like minced bits of pig rectum there's there's so many holes in this argument and it's really disappointing to see that that the the needle has swung a bit in favor of animal ag
01:01:10
Speaker
Well, yeah, I don't know. I do remember us covering similar stories before, and I think my opinion might have changed. If memory serves, I was really passionate. No, language always evolves.
01:01:23
Speaker
Burger is just a shape. Sausage is just a shape. know, if we can have, like, you know... other words evolve we can have food words evolve milk is a word that's evolved but now i don't know don't know i don't know if i'm if i'm bothered now i think you know like just have a photo on of a burger and call it you know there's that big thing years ago wasn't there of calling vegan cheese gary wasn't there that was that was a thing and like Yeah, why not? Why not? I think that people are largely image led.
01:01:57
Speaker
I mean, I'm sure this is a loophole that they'll have already thought of, but you you already get things that say like alternative to milk. So I'm not calling it milk, is it? But but maybe that maybe they've already got that base covered. But I don't know. i don't know.
01:02:12
Speaker
Maybe, maybe it doesn't matter. Does it matter, Ant? Does it matter? Well, let's see what let's see what Mark thinks. What do you think, Mark? Are you threatened by this? um I think it's hilarious that music... Definitely not you. You're in the southern hemisphere. all ah I can still call them sausages and burgers. This is the land of free here.
01:02:32
Speaker
i think I think it's hilarious the way the meat industry become the victim here or play the victim. up As if the meat and dairy industry don't hide things themselves and food consumers all all the time.
01:02:43
Speaker
For instance, a meat sausage has very little meat in it. It's it's mainly gristle and the bits that are scraped off of the slaughterhouse floor to be shoved into a food tube. Now, there's a word we could call it, food tubes instead of sausages.
01:02:57
Speaker
And they are continuously fooling people all the time. The the the idea of humane slaughter, there's not just things that you may still work, but it's a word that they use to describe what they're doing all the time to try and fool people.
01:03:10
Speaker
So I think it's pathetic. it's it's the only argument that they have. If they do win this, I wonder what what they'll be coming out with next because they can't defend their practices, they can't defend the impact they have on the environment, so they're going after words and semantics.
01:03:24
Speaker
If they do win this, what else do they have left? Nothing really. It's not as if any consumer, they they never mention consumers are coming to us saying i bought this sausage in the store yesterday and it turns out it was plant-based and not gristle and eyebrow-based like the meat sausages that that that i that I intended to buy.
01:03:43
Speaker
It's a completely invented concern, and I'm not sure even if they do win this, which, to be honest, I doubt because it's going to go through two more votes yet. It comes up yeah time after time, and it's usually beaten back. I think in France they won some limited sort of thing on this, but it is pathetic. It is ridiculous. and It's not like when you go and buy these products, it typically says plant-based.
01:04:08
Speaker
burger or plant-based sausage so unless you're only reading one word on the packet in front of you for some reason and can't see the rest of them then everyone knows what they're buying over here you have specific plant-based uh refrigerated product bits so you have your meat fridge and then on the other side of the store or far away from it you have your plant-based and it says very clearly plant-based No one has been fooled into buying vegan food when they assume that they're buying tortured animal flesh.
01:04:36
Speaker
okay it It just doesn't happen. If it did happen to a consumer once, they would they wouldn't make the same mistake a second time. So it's a completely invented argument, if you want to call it an argument. It'll be interesting to see if it's if it passes or not. But the industry, the plant the plant-based food industry, will come up with ways of getting around this by...
01:04:56
Speaker
For instance, selling milk, M-Y-L-K instead of M-I-L-K or something like this. There's always a way around this. It probably won't impact on the sales at all because people who want to buy vegan food know what they're doing and they're not blind or badly sighted. I know I'm wearing glasses as I'm saying this and I don't buy food tubes that have pigs in them rather than plants.
01:05:19
Speaker
you know So it's it is pathetic, I think. yeah it's It's interesting though, Julie, that like Mark mentions like oh vegan food manufacturers will will find ways around this. It's interesting that a lot of the backlash to this has come from Aldi, Lidl and Burger King even.
01:05:38
Speaker
They've been saying, no, this is a bad move. Like, What unusual allies. Well, do you know, it's neither a bad move or a good move. It's an inconsequential move, no matter which way it goes, I think.
01:05:50
Speaker
It was tried in 2020 and didn't get anywhere. I don't think it's going to get anywhere. yeah It kind of just doesn't matter either way, I don't think. I think it doesn't really matter what it says on the actual package.
01:06:04
Speaker
I think people will still call these items sausages and burgers and things like that in the same way... that we all talk about, or I do anyway, hoovering my house. My vacuum cleaner is not a hoover.
01:06:18
Speaker
So they will just, tell they'll use the words that are familiar or whatever. And I'm sorry to repeat myself, and I've said this before, but Because I don't aim to replicate the experience of meat eating meat at all. It's not something I've ever really wanted to do, even before I knew about animals being slaughtered and I was a tiny child. i'm I don't purchase these burgers or, so you know what mean, fake meat things anyway. So it's kind of outwith my knowledge and I don't really...
01:06:51
Speaker
I don't feel the need to to have these things. So in a way, if there were some products made of planty, protein-y stuff, I would rather they didn't have names that were sort of echoes from the slaughter industry. I'd rather that we were creative and progressive, actually. I reckon, though, Julie, if they do win this, they are going to come after your borlatti beans and your hariko beans because they're going to say...
01:07:18
Speaker
They're called pulses, but that didn't used to have a pulse. Our products used to be living and breathing and have a pulse. You can't call them pulses, but they won't stop. We need to push them back. Very quickly, the word burger actually refers to Hamburg, which is where the burger concept came from. It's got nothing to do with the animals. It's to do with the location they came from.
01:07:37
Speaker
So the meat industry needs to wise up as to where these the etymology of these words come from. used to all
01:07:47
Speaker
they've got of pigs in them, it's cows. It's because they were a steak that came from Hamburg. hamburger from the states so boom you know mo draw yeah yeah yeah yeah there you go meat industry and the burgers they sell aren't from hamburg they're they're all they're produced all over the world so they themselves are misleading consumers into thinking that all the products are made in a city in germany let's call a spade a spade and cylindrical meat a hamburger they are saline imarts
01:08:19
Speaker
put that in your pipe and smoke it thank you very much mark julie and dominic always enjoyable chatting to you listeners if you've enjoyed it too here's a little favor we'd like to ask that If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
01:08:41
Speaker
We
Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
01:08:42
Speaker
don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:08:57
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:09:09
Speaker
Well, I, for one, always have a fantastic time recording this show. So I want to say a really massive thank you to everyone who has been listening.
01:09:21
Speaker
The next Enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out on Thursday, 16th of October, and that will star Anthony, Carlos and Philip. who will be doing a deep dive into the largest known organised group of Huntsaboteurs in the United Kingdom, the North London Huntsabs.
01:09:37
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you to Mark, Anthony and Dominic for your contributions. Thanks everyone again for listening.
01:09:50
Speaker
I've been Julie and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:10:02
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:10:16
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:10:43
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:11:04
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:11:18
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.