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226- Even unhealthy plant-based foods 'beat' the Mediterranean Diet!
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Bring on the deep-fried battered Oreos! This week the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine released news of their latest study, showing that even 'unhealthy' plant based foods (such as orange juice, and potatoes?!) were better at encouraging weight-loss, than the so-called Mediterranean diet. So another reason to leave fish & chicken of your plate perhaps?
As well as these stories, Kate, Carlos & Anthony discuss nine other bits of news from the vegan & animal rights space over the last seven days across the world.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://apnews.com/article/turkey-thanksgiving-adoption-sanctuary-59564d3d3b4a713a570ffdb1237da5db
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20251124/Vegan-diet-with-unhealthy-plant-foods-promotes-greater-weight-loss-than-Mediterranean-diet.aspx
https://nypost.com/2025/11/23/us-news/long-islands-largest-most-controversial-zoo-set-to-close-after-budget-nix-very-sad/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8jwywr0p90o
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/jakarta-dog-cat-bat-sale-ban-rabies-b2872645.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce91gn5e3yko
https://www.modernghana.com/news/1450669/frances-primate-research-drive-sparks-backlash.html
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/animal-rights-activist-arrested-for-harassing-five-women-volunteers/articleshow/125522651.cms
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cathedral-city-cheese-dairy-farms-animal-cruelty-b2850103.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15324947/Katie-Price-risks-wrath-animal-welfare-charities-cuts-initials-horses-skin-PETA-called-banned-owning-animals.html
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Kate, Carlos & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan Week
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, hi there. Fancy seeing you here. What? you You're looking for animal rights and vegan news from the last seven days? Well, look no further. You're in absolutely the right place. My name's Anthony, and joining me for this episode of Vegan Week are Carlos and Kate. Let's hear what's been going on.
Misunderstandings and Injustices Faced by Vegans
00:00:23
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:35
Speaker
What about protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me, oh no. Hang on a minute, you always pick
00:00:51
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll
Welcome to Enough of the Falafel
00:01:00
Speaker
be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:06
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello, hello, lovely listeners. Welcome to Enough of the Falafel. This is Carlos, and thanks so much for being here. Hi, everybody. It's Kate here. It's lovely to be here again. So for new listeners, this is actually our news show where we look through all the sort of vegan and animal rights stuff that we think you might be interested in from the last week or so. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:40
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
Thanksgiving Turkey Sponsorships
00:01:52
Speaker
Okay, we're going to start off this week's stories with a real nice positive one. It is from the Associated Press in the US. The headline, some families are adopting turkeys for Thanksgiving instead of eating them. Adopting is in inverted commas because we are talking about sponsorship here and it's a lovely focus piece. It came out on November the 25th. Big editorial piece talking about the number of farm animal sanctuaries across the USA today. where instead of obviously eating turkeys, Animal Sanctuary is not going to be promoting that, but they're giving folk the opportunity to donate money and in return they're receiving photos, certificates, maybe one-on-one visits with the birds at an appropriate time that they are sponsoring and effectively financing the care for. Some of these birds have been rescued directly from unfortunate, well, unfortunate situations is putting it mildly like animal agriculture is very deliberate it's not a case of fortune is it some of them might be turkeys that have been pardoned non-american listeners might not be aware but there is a ah tradition in the u.s at certain times of the year i think it's generally thanksgiving isn't it where
00:03:12
Speaker
a turkey is pardoned and is given the the the good grace of not being eaten. But either way, Kate, it's a real
History of Turkey as a Holiday Meal
00:03:20
Speaker
nice story. And great is getting this coverage in a reasonably prominent news source, really.
00:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, really, really is. It's a lovely story and just wish it was like that for the 46 million turkeys that are killed in the US every year. But there's a really cute video and lovely photographs of some some lovely rescued turkeys. They're very sweet creatures. They're very sociable. They they love cuddles. I've never actually met a turkey myself, but it's on my wish list. I'd love to cuddle a turkey. or just meet one at least, face to face, rather than seeing them dead in a shop. So actually even in the UK we kill 15 million turkeys every year and 9 million of those are for Christmas. So I did wonder, because I do mention about tradition, and it is seen as the traditional so-called food for Thanksgiving and and Christmas in the UK. I just wondered, where has this tradition come from? We didn't always eat turkeys. Turkeys aren't even native to Europe even. Apparently, in the US, there was a writer called Sarah Hale, who was around in about the mid-1800s, about 150 or so years ago, who decided she campaigned for Thanksgiving to be a national holiday. Forgive me, US listeners, if I'm talking rot, but but you can write in and and tell me so. But she also promoted turkey as a main dish because she wrote recipes and stuff. And likewise, in the UK, apparently one of the main people to promote turkey and indeed like promoted Victorian-type Christmases which was, of course, Charles Dickens and his Christmas carol. It was expensive. People couldn't get hold of turkeys necessarily. It was expensive. So it was very elitist and aspirational.
00:05:23
Speaker
Hence, everybody wanting to do it. And hence, now we have this bloody awful industry that is producing turkeys that are sick and tortured and all the rest of it just for it. a meal but i just thought there's a book here which was written in 1892 and it's about Charles Dickens Christmas stories and there's a bit in here which says a Scotch philosopher who nationally does not keep Christmas day on reading the book sent out that is a Christmas carol by the way Reading the book, sent out for a turkey and asked two friends to dinner.
00:06:06
Speaker
This is a fact. What a feeling is this for a writer to be able to inspire and what a reward to reap. And I just thought, yeah, the power of stories. We need to reclaim the
Changing Perceptions of Turkeys
00:06:19
Speaker
narrative. We need to tell the stories of these gorgeous stories.
00:06:22
Speaker
birds and what they're really like any any brilliant storytellers out there please write some lovely turkey stories yeah absolutely that's that's absolutely right and i suppose that that's part of what ah an animal sanctuary does we've we've spoken before on a specific episode talking about how resource heavy animal sanctuaries are but they do have the power to change that narrative and give a different perspective on these wonderful birds that for i i have met turkeys in person and my My experience was that they do not suffer fools. they and ah
00:06:55
Speaker
They're not ah the most tolerant animals and all power to them for sticking up for themselves. So yeah, we like that story. They've got small head, but they haven't got a pea brain, have they, for sure? No, no, indeed.
00:07:07
Speaker
Brilliant creatures, as as are they all. Thank you for that extra bit of research there, Kate. Top of
Jakarta's Ban on Certain Meats
00:07:13
Speaker
the class. Now, on to our next story. We are moving to another continent. We're moving to Asia, Australia. And often when I'm researching for the show, I'll come across stories that have been recycled bits of news where it's like, oh, well, that was actually, you know, three months ago or three years ago, sometimes Yahoo, very good at recycling old stories. And this next story I thought was one of those because I saw Asia, I saw ban dog meat, victory for animal rights activists, and I thought, oh, well, this is old news. This is South Korea banning dog meat. But no, this is good news because it is a further place in Asia, indeed, one of the biggest capital cities in the whole world, Jakarta, the capital city of Indonesia. They have outlawed the sale and consumption of cat dog, cat, and bat meat, any three-lettered animal it would seem, well they're not pig or cow to be fair. This is one of Indonesia's most sweeping measures yet to curb rabies and regulate its controversial meat trade. So the prohibition was signed into force on the 24th of November. Governor Pramono Anung signed it, with Jakarta officials later confirming that the ban is now active. So this bars the sale of any rabies transmitting animals. So that category includes dogs, cats and bats, but also monkeys, civets and similar species and extends to all live animals, carcasses and raw or processed products. And it's a graduated enforcement system. So first time offender receives a written warning and any animals or meat found with them will be seized for observation, particularly where signs of rabies are present. I mean, if it's against the law, why what more why is it being observed? It's either right or wrong, surely. Anyway, a second breach triggers full confiscation of stock and continued violations can lead to business closures and further non-compliance may result in the permanent revocation of business licenses. Carlos, the more you read that, the more you think, well, like
00:09:20
Speaker
Is this a law or not, what's what's going on? However, we'd rather this is being announced than it not. It's ah it's a step, isn't it? Yeah, so this is, a I think, a crucial first step for banning those practices in Indonesia. One can only hope that, you know, as the capital city goes, the rest of the country follows. Of course, the main concern for this ban is due to public health. It's not for any kind of animal welfare or animal rights issues. But...
00:09:49
Speaker
you know, we can only welcome this sort of thing
Vegan vs. Mediterranean Diet Study
00:09:51
Speaker
happening. And it's also interesting that, you know, there's often talk about China and its ah dog meat trade and dog meat festivals and so on and so forth. But actually, the practice of eating what we consider companion animals is widespread across the world. It's not just in China, you know look for example, in Africa. Nigeria is, I think, the second or the third biggest consumer of dog meat in the world. So this is something that's occurring all over. I would say for public health reasons, there's going to be strong emphasis in kind of stopping the spread of rabies, but also in in terms of having a wild animal meat being for sale, you know, all sorts of diseases that affect animals and other and humans as well can can come from consuming the the meat from wild animals. So this is just something that we yeah we've got to to welcome and well done to the animal welfare activists on the ground, kind of promoting this. I know we often don't talk about animal rights activists in other countries, especially countries where I would say they're taking like their first steps in animal rights and animal welfare. So I can only imagine how hard it is to get something like this passed.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And that yeah, we've got the organisation Dog Meat Free Indonesia quoted in this article. And yeah, kudos to to their hard work. 42 million people live in Jakarta. So like this is big news. And like you say, Carlos, it's a public health reason for it. And it's quite an acute one. So the health ministry recorded 25 fatalities between January and March this year alone. So it's it's a big deal. And um if it's improving outcomes for animals and human animals, then then we'll we'll take that after this first six-month grace period. So there's there's even more leeway than the first bits we reported. But hey, we'll take it. We'll take it. That's fine. Thank you for that one, Carlos.
00:11:50
Speaker
Now, last week, eagle-eared listeners will remember... I say that phrase sometimes. as Eagles aren't known for their ears at all. It's because I'm trying to say eagle-eyed and then I think, oh no, this is an audio medium. Anyway, get on with it, Anthony. We reported a study from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine reported in Frontiers in Nutrition that... journal.
00:12:14
Speaker
We're going to do the same again this week. They've been very canny. It's the same study, but they're releasing multiple press releases with different findings each time. I'm not suggesting they're changing in the results or anything like that, but they're reporting on a different aspect of their findings.
00:12:29
Speaker
Clever old Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, you see. The The vegans are quite clever, really, aren't they? This week, the headline from this study is vegan diet with unhealthy plant foods promotes greater weight loss than Mediterranean diet. So you'll remember we were talking about the Mediterranean diet as the as the standard that this was being held up against. This was maybe two weeks ago, actually. Now I'm thinking about it. I remember Mark commenting on this and that was talking about the climate impact, the carbon footprint. So this week, they're talking about
00:13:02
Speaker
weight loss, which as we've mentioned in the show before, obviously is not intrinsically a good thing, but obviously for many people, weight loss is a desirable outcome. And it's interesting, Kate, that this study is showing that even unhealthy plant foods is promoting greater weight loss than the Mediterranean diet. you've You've looked at this in a bit more detail than I, and certainly our listeners who might be coming across this for the first time. What were your notes from this? Like, is the headline misleading or have they got it pretty much spot on? I don't think the headline's misleading at all. Right, it's a great study. So they they kind of make a sort of plant-based diet index and foods that are healthy, plant-based foods, they get they get plus points. unhealthy plant-based foods get minus points such as fruit juice and fizzy drinks and cans and they say potatoes but I'm guessing they must mean things like chips because potato is pretty healthy would have thought especially you've got the skin on but I digress um valuable products yeah negative negative points definitely
UK Sugar Tax Expansion
00:14:13
Speaker
and they pit that against the Mediterranean diet which is always promoters the most healthy diet and obviously It sounds like it's promoted to help people with weight loss and stuff.
00:14:27
Speaker
And within that, you are allowed a certain number of portions of fish and white meat, which I guess is like chicken or turkeys. Also, olive oil. They found that people who were consuming the... So ah so yeah, the study, they they did 16 weeks on one diet, then they the say the Mediterranean or the vegan, and then they did a washout thing of four weeks of going back to whatever they were eating before, and then 16 weeks to the opposite diet. And they found, yeah, that people on the vegan diet, they actually lost weight.
00:15:02
Speaker
And also some other benefits, of course, like diabetes and other ah conditions kind of reducing and the people on the Mediterranean diet didn't lose any weight. So the the vegan diet was a kind of low-fat diet, so no no oils and stuff. And even though...
00:15:21
Speaker
and There was like only like four questionnaires they were given on foods they were eating. And it was self-reporting, so they could have been cheating. And they had to make their own meals. They didn't get their meals provided.
00:15:33
Speaker
It still worked. It still worked. So maybe there could have been even more benefits. But this is a great study because it's on humans and it's not on animals. Yay! I did think it was interesting that the yeah unhealthy foods... included, like you say, potatoes and fruit juices. Like when I'm thinking of unhealthy plant-based foods, I'm thinking like deep fried battered Oreos and- When I go unhealthy, I go all the way. But um yeah, we've still got to take this, haven't we? you know Absolutely. and that you know And as you know, I'm a proponent of being as healthy as possible anyway. So we can be our best selves for the animals, show for the animals and we can like attract people in and say, gosh, they they look healthy and they're fit and all the rest of it. So of course not everybody wants to be like that, but that's fine. So, you know, anyway, all good. And sometimes if you're really fit, people make documentaries about you. that The fact that you're still running marathons in, you know, as a very experienced human being with a few years behind you.
00:16:42
Speaker
Imagine that, Kate. Imagine, imagine, yeah, 62, yeah, not too bad, bad for not bad for an old deer. Indeed, indeed, long may it continue. But yes, we acknowledge on this show that veganism is more than just a diet and don't have to be healthy, but an interesting thing. to see studies like that, especially as that will appeal to lots of folk. And ah lots of folk have had their ears pricked up and their eyes peeled on the budget that has been released in the UK in the last week or so. And there's many different ways that animal rights and plant-based foods and things have, or indeed animal-based foods, have been related to that. We're focusing on one of them in our next story.
Holtsville Ecology Centre Closure
00:17:31
Speaker
We've taken this from the BBC, where they're reporting that milkshakes and lattes are to face sugar tax in the yeah UK. Effectively, the long and the short of this is that originally when this so-called sugar tax was proposed,
00:17:47
Speaker
it was going to be avoiding things like milk products, so things things from animals, cows, milk. However, there is is going to be more of them included in this, but not all of them, Carlos. and I noticed that there is is still a lactose allowance to account for the naturally occurring sugars in milk,
00:18:11
Speaker
Right. Okay. But also, ah did I read somewhere that pure milk, I'm not talking about unpasteurized, but just milk out of a ah a carton or whatever that's not had anything done to it, not turned into a Yazoo milkshake, that's exempt completely, isn't it? So it's It's not being applied to everything, but um it's good that the the dairy lobby is not having as strong an effect that we thought it might originally. No, yeah. Initially, this um this sort of dairy allowance that milk-based drinks were were going to be exempt because of the containing calcium, but it turns out that they're all going to be taxed the same way. So...
00:18:50
Speaker
It just depends on the sugar content, whether it comes from ah oat milk or it comes from fruit juice or it comes from dairy milk and so on and so forth. I mean, it's hard to to say something nice about this. is like, well, at least we're being treated consistently the other ones, although it doesn't help our cause in any way. This is mostly about just kind of general health, isn't it?
00:19:09
Speaker
Kind of obese children and so on. I i don't want to really... comment too much of it. I mean, I would say though that Dairy UK, the industry body said it was disappointing that the government had decided to expand the sugar levery levy because they trotted out their usual stuff about B vitamins and protein and calcium and so on and so forth to kind of, you know, make a pitch that dairy is an essential part of people's diets and other kind of All the studies that have come out recently kind of disproved that and say that you can just get those nutrients elsewhere. It's been plenty, been discussed plenty of times in this podcast and elsewhere that this idea that milk is necessary for you grown-up humans is ah something that was made up at some point and put on that big pyramid of of foods and said, you know, the milk should be there for even adult humans. But, you know, there's no but scientific basis for that. actually. And it's it's nice that they're not being let off the hook as an unhealthy drink just because of containing calcium or whatever the pitch is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And further annoying news from the UK budget that a lot of gambling related industries have had tax paid on profits almost doubling from 21% to 40%. But has been exempt.
00:20:34
Speaker
So more more excellent news there, more more just like, oh, you know, gambling's bad. Unless you're gambling on a sentient being being exploited, in which case carry on, carry on. Nothing wrong with that at all. Yeah, the horse racing lobby is so strong. It's going to be a really hard industry to dismantle. oh We have some good news about that too. We do. Hold on listeners. There's we've got something just to titillate you with in a few minutes time, a positive bit of news with regards to horse racing. But yes, thank you for that one, Carlos. Not often we talk about the yeah UK parliamentary budget, but, Needs must, needs must. Let's go to New York. We are going to celebrate. Why? Because Long Island's largest zoo, which faced animal abuse allegations, is set to close. The quote is very sad. Well, we'll ah beg to differ, I think. So Brookhaven's town board passed its 2026 budget on Thursday night in a 7-0 vote.
00:21:38
Speaker
The move cementing the shutdown of Holtzville Ecology Centre. Goodness me, they humane wash and green wash and everything else wash, don't they? Ecology Centre. It's a zoo. It's a zoo. It's described in the New York Post as a knockout blow to residents fighting to keep the animal sanctuary open. Make up your minds. Is
Debate Over Primate Research Center Expansion
00:22:01
Speaker
it an animal sanctuary or is it a zoo?
00:22:03
Speaker
Come on. They don't know, do they? Keep the animal sanctuary open and funded by taxpayers. payers. The town supervisor Dan Panico, that's a good name isn't it, panic definitely happening here, they say there needs to be far more in terms of an investment and resources into even attempting to run this operation properly. Now there have been lots of protests and outside this zoo after animal abuse allegations. Multiple times they've been accused of neglecting multiple animals. The news story that we're taking this from has a picture of Honey the bear, was one of the animals alleged to be not treated properly. Kate, it sounds like an absolute bin fire of an organisation.
00:22:47
Speaker
Fantastic that it's being shut down. Obviously the next question is what's going to happen to those animals? We've heard recently Stories of zoos where they've been left behind effectively for years in South America. But ah we've got to take this as a positive, haven't we? Yeah, definitely.
00:23:04
Speaker
They're poor animals. They've lived lives of misery and despair, probably. Freezing to death in the winter, some of them. not given veterinary treatment when they needed it, and dying of all kinds of illnesses. But thankfully, yeah, they are going to get sent to sanctuaries, which will hopefully, and hopefully specific to their needs, because there's a whole range of animals here from sort of wild birds and some exotic animals, as well as farm animals. and It sounds like, you know, over the years they've kind of been donated or I wonder if make ah because it's under the um the local government, yeah the highway department or something, which sounds really bizarre why it's under the you know highway department. And they've been they've been putting in two million dollars of funding every year, which is nowhere near enough. You know, it's just, I guess, either do it properly or don't do it at all. And it looks like, thankfully, they're not going to do it at all and they're going to get sent to sanctuaries. But, you know, in a sense, it's, I kind of find, you know, because obviously it's local people have donated some of those animals. Maybe some of them were hit by traffic. I don't know. and they they couldn't go back to the wild. I don't know. i'm just making that up. Perhaps somebody who knows better will be able to tell us. But it's almost like there's no...
00:24:28
Speaker
the I mean, even the place is actually ah an old landfill site and all the infrastructure is just rotting and falling apart. You know, it's absolutely horrendous.
00:24:40
Speaker
And it's almost like, well, we can't really be bothered. We're not going to do it properly. We're just going to let it fail anyway. You know, what is going to... I guess people in future who've got animals that they don't know what to do with will have to seek out a sanctuary elsewhere.
00:24:55
Speaker
It's like animals are not really part of our society. We don't care. We're not going to look after them when they need us to. Zoos are always going to be up against it, aren't they? To replicate the diversity, the scope, the space of the wild that the animals inherently belong in. And I understand a sanctuary, it doesn't sound like this is a sanctuary at all, but like if if you are ah a sanctuary, a rescue center, or what have you, then you're not doing it for nefarious purposes, but you're still gonna be up against it to create anything like what a wild habitat
Animal Rights Activism in Indonesia
00:25:30
Speaker
is. And as you say, Kate, it just seems like they they were just cutting corners left, right, and center. I mean, the accusations leveled against them, letting a mountain lion drown cutting infections out of a rooster's feet without anaesthesia, ignoring rotting teeth. It's not grey things, it's very black and white, isn't it? It's absolutely horrendous and you're right, there's no way that animals can be given the same freedoms that they would in the wild, although the wild is getting smaller and smaller all the time. So, but I guess there are some times we have animals that can't go back to the wild for whatever reason and we have to
00:26:10
Speaker
think about what to do with them. And hopefully now these animals are gonna have a ah ah relatively pain-free and happy life with their needs cared for as much as is actually possible yeah within captivity, you know. yeah Indeed, indeed. Well, yes, good riddance to bad rubbish with regards to that zoo, though. Shut them down, shut them all down. Somewhere that is not being shut down are several primate research centres in France indeed plans to expand one of France's primate research centres. They're facing resistance from animal rights groups and apparently according to modern ghana.com where we've taken this from there's a growing national debate over Europe's animal testing future. Obviously we've covered this topic a lot in the show and several countries including the UK and the US s are saying well we want to reduce the amount of animal testing going on but
00:27:12
Speaker
The National Centre for Scientific Research, which is a site at Rousset in Provence, they've spent decades breeding primates for scientific experiments. They're aiming to triple their population to 1,800 animals.
00:27:28
Speaker
animals in the next three to four years. They insist that the expansion is necessary to reduce reliance on costly imports and improve welfare.
00:27:41
Speaker
Not quite sure what that means, and but they are backed by the French government here The article does go on to say that COVID disrupted animal shipments from China and Africa. So the cost of a single lab bred primate soared to between 15 20,000 years.
00:28:00
Speaker
thousand euros which is a price that public research institutions struggled to meet. Carlos, it's obviously good that there's a a financial barrier that is kind of getting in the way of these things, but if they're if they're talking about tripling this, it it doesn't sound like it's a it's a barrier that they're failing to overcome. Yeah, it's such a strange move, this one. just as And I say this with some reservations, just as the UK has announced that it's going to phase out animal experimentation. And I say this with reservations because it's going to take a bit longer than we'd like. In France, they're increasing the number of animal experimentation.
00:28:43
Speaker
And they talk about France's research sovereignty so that they, you know, let's have more animal experiments so we can have more research in academic research in our country. That's such a disingenuous phrase, isn't it? Calling it research sovereignty. It's it's like, come on, just break that down. What does that mean?
00:29:02
Speaker
Yes, it's it's it's really strange. And then they talk about, yeah, but this is good because we're keeping this facility in France. and So this way we're not kind of exporting the animal testing. We can we can monitor, we can control it better. Yeah, but it's still animal testing in an age, we're you know, in 2025, in an age where the scientific community is moving away from animal testing towards running simulations of how animals would, animal kind of biological systems, let's call it that, would interact with specific drugs and so forth. There's quite a lot of research going on, meta research, got research on research on how even AI can be used to simulate biological systems and the biological systems of humans, which is what these things are being tested for anyway, much more closely than you could get from a primate. Here's France in 2025, increasing the number of primates it's keeping, it's torturing for in the name of science. and and And it's, I mean, we've already commented on the nonsensical language that's being used here. Their head of ethics, Ivan Balanzard, has said, oh keeping the facility in France ins ensures better monitoring of living conditions and animal welfare. So, Each primate will have 1.49 square meters of space on average, which is above EU requirements. It's like, again, just just take a look at what you're actually saying there. You're celebrating.
00:30:31
Speaker
that each primate has got 1.5 square meters of space on average. That is not something to be celebrated. Goodness me, goodness me. Well, let's let's hope, like you say, Carlos, there are countries who are very vocally moving away from this, even if they haven't quite made the steps yet. Let's let's hope that sort of thing is is the direction of travel for the majority. and Yeah, let's hope. Yeah, and there's pressures.
00:30:59
Speaker
pressures outdated practices like being done and being proposed in France. ah Now we titillated you with a ah bit of bonus good news. We've covered our usual first six stories.
Acquittal of Grand National Protesters
00:31:11
Speaker
We should be going to pick of the week now but the second week running we have got some grand national news and Kate is really positive again.
00:31:21
Speaker
Even more positive. I said to Dominic last week oh well hopefully we'll be reporting on another 10 people being acquitted soon or another five people being acquitted soon but this isn't even a a judge saying or a jury saying oh yeah looks like you guys are are off the hook nothing doing it didn't even make it to a trial no i amazing isn't it because they basically i think the crown prosecution service ah you know they keep an eye on how things are going and they keep checking whether or not they think trials will possibly succeed or not and they just looked at this one where it's nine people were up for causing a public nuisance and fixing themselves to some jumps and just being a general pain in the arse and stopping the race go you're going ahead by about 14 minutes delay they they just said oh well it's it's not gonna it's not gonna happen they're not gonna get they're gonna be acquitted more than likely the jury because they're up against the jury the jury will probably say they're not guilty so then we're not even gonna bother sending it to court so hooray horay hooray hooray that's pretty amazing long may it continue long may it continue i just like the idea of the of the
00:32:40
Speaker
the judge or the the court or whatever, just saying, oh, don't be ridiculous. Don't be ridiculous. Don't don't you know that we're not we're not making these people guilty? Haven't you been reading the news? Someone who I think has not read the room particularly well has been the journalist who covered this one. I don't is if it's the same journalist that's covered the the previous two stories. and But this one is Lynette Horsburgh. Horsburgh, an interesting name there. After detailing the the fact that, oh, well, you know, it it didn't even go to trial. And earlier this month, there were people who were cleared to. They then went on to say, by the way, the 2023 race that they protested, it was won by this horse that was ridden by this horse. It's like, Lynette, no one cares. when we We don't want to know who won the horse race.
00:33:25
Speaker
Read the room. This is about disrupting the horse race. She did does go on to. Yeah. she Yeah. She does mention that one of the horses did die after falling at the first fence, meaning that three horses did die at the 2023 race.
00:33:39
Speaker
race me overall so letter off it's interesting though isn't it because you know generally you know it may so signal that you know public opinion is changing okay so there's a minority of people that go to the races and what have you but majority people don't no majority of people don't care and they are not swayed by by the arguments And they were swayed by the prevention of animal suffering argument.
00:34:10
Speaker
And hopefully, hopefully the law follows public opinion. And you never know. It's another chink. It's chink, isn't it, in their defence. All for hearing more of these acquittals. Let's hope there's even more that don't even go to trial. That would be good news.
00:34:26
Speaker
So we're going to move on to our picks for the week in a moment. Put the kettle on first, though, because there's time for a quick break.
Zencaster's Transcription Accessibility
00:34:32
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless, we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
00:34:52
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. going to spell it all for you.
00:35:07
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:35:18
Speaker
and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows you click on.
00:35:25
Speaker
Okay, Pick of the
Harassment Allegations in Indian Animal Rights Group
00:35:26
Speaker
Week time then. We'll start with Kate's. And Kate, I must say, I was pleased to say that you chose this one for Pick of the Week because I think it can be very tempting in vegan and animal rights circles to sweep under the carpet news that doesn't necessarily put vegans and vegan organizations in a good light but actually we've got to be honest we've got to be authentic about these things and your story focuses on the founder of the Indian Centre for Animal Rights and Education being arrested for doing some quite horrendous sounding things you're able to tell us some more So this is the Times of India. Animal rights activists arrested for harassing five women volunteers. I'm not entirely sure whether the Indian Centre for Animal Rights and Education is a vegan organisation. i did try and find out, but I'm not sure that it is. Yeah, Anthony, if you could check that out. So police have booked somebody called, apologies for mispronunciation, Maral Idharan.
00:36:33
Speaker
Sivalingam on charges of Tamil Nadu prohibition of harassment to women act and information technology act and intending to insult the modesty of women.
00:36:46
Speaker
So basically five women who are all animal rights. welfare volunteers, they alleged that he had subjected them to cyber stalking, intimidation, defamation and targeted harassment across social media platforms. So he he's been tagging their names in posts, misrepresenting their activities and provoking online mobs that endangered their safety. and In their complaint, they stated that the accused repeatedly used derogatory and misadjection misogynistic phrases to describe women activists referred to them as mental patients and out of control. They also stated that the repeated tagging of officials and strangers
00:37:33
Speaker
had sparked negative comments from unknown users instigating public hostility. And I did wonder what all this was about. And it seems to be, because this article doesn't really tell you what it's all about. and It's all to do with community dogs.
00:37:51
Speaker
in India, I think that it's something also to do with the fact that there's been a law passed, new laws, that rounding up dogs, sterilising and vaccinating them, they have to be re-released locally because they're like, they're community dogs.
00:38:09
Speaker
And it's not that they're strays or anything in particular, they're actually loved by their local community members. People feed them, they know them, they name them. They're part, they're friends and neighbours. And historically, dogs have been living alongside humans in this way for like thousands of years. And one of the the key flashpoints, I think, is that there are places being set up that are feeding stations and you're not supposed to feed them anywhere else. And so, you know, in a lot of perhaps lower income places, there might not be anywhere
00:38:48
Speaker
to feed the local dogs. And yet they live there, they're their friends and neighbours. And so it sounds like I think different animal rights people are having disagreements as to whether or not they should kind of break the law, because apparently the feeding stations, say they have notices up and there's like a helpline to ring if you see somebody feeding a dog where they shouldn't be feeding them and things like that. So... is kind of pitting people against people. and And also, apparently, the people who, Mural Idharam's people, who are his supporters, are also saying that perhaps some of the the people are weaponising social media to attack him. And, or kind of, they're using their, they they're kind of basically making it up that that he he didn't do that thing. Well, they'll able to find out for sure, won't they, by looking it. social media posts and stuff but basically yeah there's a lot of disagreement going on about um how to treat the how to treat the dogs seems a massive shame and i guess in europe we also once upon a time had street dogs did we not but modern life with cars and and such like so-called cleaning up neighborhoods and stuff there there are some people finding them like
00:40:10
Speaker
They're calling them dangerous and a nuisance. And and actually, some of them are rabid, but not that many. And they're thinking that maybe that will be used as an excuse also to round up dogs.
00:40:22
Speaker
And because there there isn't enough funding to treat the dogs before releasing them, that actually that might mean that some dogs do do get euthanised, that perhaps wouldn't have been and they'd have been re-released back into the community. so it's a bit I don't know, it's very complicated. Trying to work out what's going on here. I just thought there's more to this story than appears on the surface. Yeah, well, like you say, it's it's difficult to find out more about this story and indeed more about the organisation. I mean, it it did...
00:40:55
Speaker
I have to say it did pique my interest as as was evident from my introduction because actually i it's not that I'm ah on a witch hunt for, for um it's probably not a great phrase to use, but just for organisations where that things are being hushed up and i think...
00:41:13
Speaker
because we are a ah social justice cause, I think sometimes there can be a tendency to say, oh come on, we, you know, we can't publicize those bad things that are going on because that would be really bad press for veganism or animal rights as a whole. And I absolutely do not believe that, you know, we need, we need the right people leading organizations if indeed they are hierarchical organizations that have a figurehead or a leader. So there's that side of things. But yes, it's that this this issue as as a whole, in terms of street dogs and things like that. Goodness me, there's there's so many different sides to it. And and and it's one of those where the, I mean, Carlos, you very eloquently put forward, you know, straightforward solutions to these things last week. And yeah, that that is the that is the ideal. And
00:42:03
Speaker
logistically sometimes those things are ah not possible or it's not as smooth in practice are they? No, not at all. But you know, just because somebody's an animal rights activist doesn't give them a free pass.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The only other, the I was furiously searching whilst you were telling us about that, Kate, and the only other bit of information I could find out about the Indian Centre for Animal Rights and Education was ah ah a story of a few years ago where they were being questioned as to whether they could indeed solicit donations to be made directly to their website and whether they were doing so in an ethical way. So,
00:42:40
Speaker
Not the first time they've been brushed with controversy. And obviously we hope that the the volunteers who were working working on on behalf of animals and who've been, quote, harassed, you know, we hope that they're still able to do their work and it's not affected them too much. I just want to say that we're all, even as vegans, tell surprise we're not perfect and make mistakes and upset people. But yeah, there are some red lines.
00:43:07
Speaker
you know, to try and respect people and not call them mental patients and out of control would be would be a good step. I think that's a good general rule of thumb, isn't it? Yes, it's quite a civil way of going about things. We'll make that one of our podcast rules. I'll make sure not to do that in the future.
00:43:24
Speaker
Thank you for that one, Kate. Now, moving on to further controversy, Cathedral City Cheese Farms, as quoted by The
Abuse in Dairy Farms Exposed
00:43:33
Speaker
Independent. I don't think that's exactly how they're normally phrased, but I suppose that that headline does make it a bit easier for readers to understand what's going on. They were in the news a few weeks ago after an expose from Joey Carbstrong and et al and carlos they're back in the news this week it's your pick of the week and uh i'm very very interested in the dairy firm's headline response here it's it's not really been condemning what's been happening it's basically saying
00:44:04
Speaker
Be careful who you employ and look look look out for strangers because they might they might be filming us, basically. Yeah, so this is um what a strange response, isn't it? To just say, hey, can you ah can you just do your jobs for a change?
00:44:19
Speaker
Because there might be people filming instead of saying... do your jobs properly because that's how you're supposed to do your jobs. Even outside of animal any animal welfare considerations, they were literally behaving illegally towards these animals.
00:44:34
Speaker
And all they could say was like, but you know, can you please behave legally because you might be being filmed with hidden cameras by animal rights activists like this guy. Joey Carbstrong, who's done quite a lot of amazing work in exposing these farms, who've been abusing animals. I mean, all farms abuse animals, but kind of abusing animals outside of the remit of the abuse they're allowed to get away with. i also want to highlight how pathetic the response from the RSPCA has been.
00:45:02
Speaker
which is, again, not really a surprise at this stage. this These farms were under the red tractor scheme, so they're supposed to obey certain welfare laws and and and so on and so forth. And the RSPCA just says, okay, we suspended them. Yes, that's cool, but that's not what the the point is that that you don't even allow this to even happen. It's not...
00:45:27
Speaker
that you do nothing and then suspend them when somebody else does your job for you. And then their their response is that they're not allowed to actually get inside these these farms to to put cameras or kind of kind of random visits when they don't know they're being... looked at So what's the what's the bloody point of the assured scheme besides making money for the RSPCA and making a bunch of ah people who buy animal products feel good about themselves? So it's incumbent again on independent animal rights activists and Joey Carbstrong and other content creators to go to these farms and actually do their ah the RSPCA's job for them and do even, i would say, the government's job for them. Yes, indeed. it does It does fall to that. We were noting in our Enough of the Falafel WhatsApp group in the last few days that there's a new chief executive coming to the RSPCA next week, Joanna Rowland from the Home Office.
00:46:24
Speaker
coming in as new chief executive. So, of course, we can have high hopes that it will all change then. Yeah, i wouldn't hold my I wouldn't hold my breath, but let's give them benefit of the doubt and let's see what they decide. I mean, this retroactive scheme has been a complete disaster, hasn't it? Yeah. And and the the fact is, as you say, like that this stuff is still happening. This stuff is still happening. I mean, these aren't events and practices that are open to interpretation. When you follow the link in the show notes and watch this, the credit to The Independent, I mean, that they put a little warning at the start saying people might find this upsetting. But then they are showing the fit the footage. And it's not someone who is calm and then all of a sudden...
00:47:08
Speaker
react These guys are going out of their way to cause harm to these animals. So, you know, what whatever systemic things you want to say that the assured scheme is doing, it it if it's not stopping that, then then what's the point of it?
00:47:26
Speaker
What is the point? and They give Joey Carbstrong the final word, don't they? He doesn't actually say stop drinking milk and eating cheese, but he does say from the milk in people's tea to the cheese on their pizzas, the products of this system reach almost every household in the country.
00:47:44
Speaker
It doesn't say, but they don't have to. But, you know, i so i just, it does worry me putting in CCTV footage because I reckon they're just putting it in there really to stop any more activists.
00:47:56
Speaker
Do you know what mean? I'm sure that's it. Rather than, am I being really miserable about it? Why would that stop activists though? Like, because surely activists still want to get hold of the footage. They'll stop them going in there and planting their own cameras, I mean.
00:48:12
Speaker
they can i reckon it'll be easier. it would it would just it would just look like... you reckon? do you reckon Perhaps they can hack into the CCTV footage. ass what Who knows? I don't know. i just like...
00:48:25
Speaker
I'm always very suspicious, really. Always. Well, I mean, ah we can we can be reasonably sure that any measures that an animal ag farm is doing is is not going to be done in one that is upholding animals rights, is it? You know, it's they might be doing things because they're being forced to, or they might be doing things to greenwash or whatever. But yeah, it's not going to be done to him improve outcomes for animals.
00:48:50
Speaker
Thank you for that one, Carlos. Carlos and Kate have said what they have thought about those picks for the week and indeed the previous six stories. But regular listeners will know that we very much want to hear what all of you think about those stories or any of them that you've found or indeed our commentary on these things. So do get in touch with us.
00:49:13
Speaker
Here's how to do so.
Katie Price's Animal Care Controversy
00:49:15
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:49:34
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com So time for one last story. This comes to us from the Daily Mail. The headline, Katie Price risks the wrath of animal welfare charities once again as she shaves her initials into horse's coat.
00:49:56
Speaker
This coming after Peter called for her to be banned from owning animals. ah Katie Price, if you don't know who Katie Price is, you can look her up if you want, but she's ah a sort of classic famous for not doing very much and but making a big deal about it. And she's got this awful record of animals dying in her care, so much so that that PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, have relatively recently done a spoof. It was a ah Halloween costume calling her the Grim Reaper of pets, and they're kind of doing it in a light-hearted way. But as this Daily Mail article also does, detailing the the huge list of animals that have died in her care, not just of old age or things like that. it There's does seem to be either very unlucky streak going on in her household or signs of negligence. But this this latest stunt, there's a picture of it on her, I think it's her Instagram, riding today, horse emoji, how cute is this, KP, and then a heart emoji and it's it's so gaudy and and disgusting really just shaved into the back flank of of this horse this poor horse that has to put up with her all the time it's it's obviously not great is it it's obviously not great that doesn't doesn't require much to um much to say that but i wonder kate and carlos what you thought of this coverage because in a sense it's it's it's focusing on one person isn't it and
00:51:35
Speaker
Katie price Price is a divisive figure. it's It's easy to just have a go at her because half the people have a go and half the people defend her. is Does it undermine a kind of, I know the Daily Mail aren't doing this from an animal rights perspective, but like, does it undermine the argument to kind of say, look at this one person, they're awful. Look, she's shaving her name in a horse's backside. All these animals die her care. Or do we need do we want a culture where we are calling people out for for not looking after animals properly?
00:52:08
Speaker
If indeed that's what's happening. Well, yeah, I do want a culture where people call each other out or to the authority whatever for mistreat of animals. I would say this is such a non-story because horses are shaved depending on the time of the year. Let's not get into the... ethics of owning a horse or using a horse for riding or for any other purpose. But just in terms of caring for a horse, horse horses, as far as I know, they're shaved and she, I guess, was going to be cute and, you know, didn't shave her the horse completely, left her initials there. i'm assuming later she did a complete sh... People were getting... I mean, I don't know if people were actually seeing this as a really controversial thing or if was just the Daily Mail stirring stirring things up as usual.
00:52:53
Speaker
would be much more concerned about her history of getting new and um new pets, getting excited about them, and then they mysteriously dying or disappearing. or whatever happened to them.
00:53:04
Speaker
That seemed much more than this horse shaving thing. It's not quite so on a scale of things bad as some of the other things that that have happened to her animals, I think. I mean, she's clearly... i mean, she seems... i i I've had a quick look at her Instagram. She's got 2.7 million followers, which is a lot more million followers than I've got. and But she's um she's... It's almost like she's using her... companion animals as her accessories really she's not you know she's using them because they look cute and she seems to to get them impulsively you know and then get rid of them impulsively she hands them ah away to people when she doesn't regard them as cute any longer or else you know she's they you know she i don't know how many dogs it's about four dogs and one horse and
00:53:53
Speaker
that have escaped onto the road and been killed once okay oh dear oh we didn't fix that fence but five times you know that is clearly not somebody who is being a responsible pet guardian animal god is it you know she clearly can't care for them enough. She shouldn't, I don't think she should be having, and looking after animals and having them in her life. I think Peter are probably correct in calling her out. I always feel a bit icky about everyone and their dog jumping on the bandwagon and and just lambasting someone. and And, you know, she she puts herself in the spotlight. So she is going to be targeted more than just, you know, Mrs. Jones at number 43, who also has put up
00:54:41
Speaker
silly hat on her dog or whatever. But I think, yeah, i I do think that drawing attention, I mean, the Daily Mail have done it for clicks and for advertising revenue. There's no doubt about that. 517 on this story online. So I think that's that's why, like you say, Carlos, the Daily Mail is stirring it up. they they They know what to do to to get people to comment. But i I think anything that draws attention to people using animals for their own ends.
00:55:11
Speaker
But you say, Carlos, it's just shaving her, shaving the horse. it's ah It's a natural thing to do. Some of the comments say that too, but actually the fact that she's doing it in an attention seeking way draws attention to how humans use animals to their own ends. I remember a few years ago, a animal farmer that lived near me used the spray paint that is used to mark animals, mark their numbers and things like that on them. to draw an England flag and wrote, it's coming home. It was during like the football Euros or something like that. And I drew attention to that.
00:55:44
Speaker
and And lots of people said, oh, it's fine. It's harmless. It doesn't harm the animal. But it's like, no no, look at how we just objectify animals. And it's, yeah, it's not the worst thing that could happen, but I think it it can serve as ah an example of this is this is not benefiting the animal, is it? Let's look at it from that point of view.
00:56:03
Speaker
And yes, I think you're probably right, Kate. let's some Let's hope she doesn't have any more animals in her lack of care, but I'm not holding my breath. Right, that's the end of our news articles and therefore our conversation about the last week's news. We do hope you have enjoyed it.
00:56:21
Speaker
Kate and Carlos are now going to have some funky music in the background while they tell you a little favour we're asking of you. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too.
00:56:37
Speaker
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00:56:53
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
00:57:04
Speaker
Thank you, everybody, for listening. The next Enough of the enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out on Thursday, the 4th of December, and that will feature Kate, Dominic, and Anthony, and they will be looking at different vegan consumer options for celebrating Christmas in 2025. can't wait. Yeah, delicious. Anyway, that's enough the falafel for this episode.
00:57:29
Speaker
Thank you, Anthony. Thank you, Carlos, for your brilliant contributions. And thank you, all you wonderful people out there for listening to us. I've been Kate, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:57:49
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:58:04
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:58:30
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:58:51
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from