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18: Disclosure Team - Thomas Winterton
424 Plays3 years ago
Thomas Winterton, superintendent of Skinwalker Ranch, manages facilities, equipment, and maintenance of the property. He assists in the investigations and has unique insight based on firsthand experience with the unsettling paranormal activity that occurs there. Prior to the start of the series, Winterton developed a serious head injury while on the ranch that could have killed him, the cause of which is still unknown and of vital importance in the context of the investigation.
Thomas Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThomasWinterton
Thomas Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thomasrwint...
Skinwalker Ranch Official Website: https://www.skinwalker-ranch.com/
PHENOMENOLOGY YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9CZ...
Disclosure Team Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disclosure_...
Disclosure Team Twitter: https://twitter.com/disclosureteam_
DISCLAIMER:
FAIR USE NOTICE: This video MAY contain copyrighted material, the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Disclosure Team distributes this material for the purpose of news reporting, educational research, comment, and criticism, constituting Fair Use under 17 U.S.C § 107.
Intro music:
• Track Title:Yearning
• Available at: https://youtu.be/j-UlkEjDAOA
• Beat by Chris Hayes Music
Thomas Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThomasWinterton
Thomas Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thomasrwint...
Skinwalker Ranch Official Website: https://www.skinwalker-ranch.com/
PHENOMENOLOGY YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9CZ...
Disclosure Team Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disclosure_...
Disclosure Team Twitter: https://twitter.com/disclosureteam_
DISCLAIMER:
FAIR USE NOTICE: This video MAY contain copyrighted material, the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Disclosure Team distributes this material for the purpose of news reporting, educational research, comment, and criticism, constituting Fair Use under 17 U.S.C § 107.
Intro music:
• Track Title:Yearning
• Available at: https://youtu.be/j-UlkEjDAOA
• Beat by Chris Hayes Music
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Anomalous Podcast Network
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon.
Host Greeting and Audience Acknowledgment
00:00:38
Speaker
Hey guys, how's it going? Welcome back to the channel. It is Thursday. I hope everyone's having a great day wherever you are in the world. I've had a fantastic day. It is 8 p.m. here in the UK. Before we bring on my guest, a couple of things. I just want to say thank you to everybody that's here live on YouTube.
00:00:57
Speaker
And thank you to everybody on YouTube that may watch this after the fact I appreciate that not everyone can be here as it goes out live and to everybody listening to this on the anomalous podcast Network Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate all the support and for anybody that wants to support the channel We have memberships super chats and super stickers But don't worry if you can't help out if you do have any questions that you want to ask our guests Please pop them in the comments in the live chat and pop them in capital letters
Documentary Trailer Announcement
00:01:28
Speaker
One final thing the documentary series that myself and Dan and ash recently filmed in Columbia The trailer is going to be released tomorrow at 2 p.m. GMT You have to work that out wherever you are else in the world I'm sorry, but look out for it on my Instagram on my Twitter and everywhere else I cannot wait to share this with you guys
00:01:51
Speaker
But that is all irrelevant right
Introduction of Guest: Thomas Winterton
00:01:54
Speaker
now. I would like to bring on our guest. I'm a big fan of this show and of this gentleman as well. So please welcome Mr. Thomas Winterton. Thomas, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm really good. Thank you so much for doing this. It really means a lot. I'm excited to visit with you, especially when I found out that you're across the pond. Yep, yep. It spreads everywhere, man. The ranch is global.
00:02:20
Speaker
So yeah, really exciting stuff. Have you done much global interviews and things like that? So I did a podcast with a gentleman in Scotland, I believe. Excuse me. I'm just getting over a head cold and some pneumonia. So if I have to clear my throat, I apologize. But
00:02:46
Speaker
I did one over there with him, and then I did an interview in Poland, which was an interesting experience because it wasn't a live interview. What we did was they submitted the questions, we had to translate, then I submit. Translation, we had to make sure. And I don't read Polish, so hopefully it came across the way that it was supposed to. But other than that, everything else has been stateside.
00:03:11
Speaker
Awesome. I'm glad that we can share this with people over this side of the pond. I guess to start off, I'd just like to ask a simple question, which is, have you been on the ranch today? I have not been on the ranch today. I actually will be on the ranch later today. I was on the ranch yesterday until, well, I was there till yesterday evening, so. Excellent, excellent.
Ranch Activity: Quiet or Active Period?
00:03:37
Speaker
I know that from some of the things we've seen on the show and stuff, there are kind of quiet periods on the ranch and then there are times when things kind of ramp up a little bit. So if you were to say at the moment, what's happening on the ranch, is it a quiet period or is there still sort of strange occurrences happening? Actually, I would say that the last little while has been active.
00:04:05
Speaker
But I say that, the thing about the ranch, I tell people, nine out of 10 days, you roll on the ranch nine out of 10 times, it's calm, it's peaceful, the gate shuts behind you. I feel like I'm kind of locked away in my own world. I don't get good cell phone reception out there at all. So for the most part, when I enter the ranch, it's like entering this whole private little realm and I love it.
00:04:31
Speaker
And then there's that one out of 10 where you roll on and there's been times where just roll up to the gate and whether it's the hair raising up on your body or just I've learned
00:04:46
Speaker
And it's like being married, you know, you're married long enough. You could start to tell the moods without having to ask the questions. You roll up the gate and it's like, ah, man, she's not in a good mood today. I don't know if I should be going on. And, uh, and so there'll be once in a while you roll up and it's like, no, it's not happening today. And I'll turn around and leave. Wow. So we can really go from just being in a beautiful place and every day kind of.
00:05:15
Speaker
pleasant experience to something that really just is the opposite. That's so fascinating. Yeah. And, you know, I can't count the number of times where I've been there working and been working there all day and everything's great. And then it's like something shifts, something changes.
00:05:34
Speaker
And really rapidly, I've learned to listen because when you don't listen, that's when it seems problems happen. Especially if I'm out there working on something by myself and I don't have somebody close by that can help me out.
Safety and Challenges at the Ranch
00:05:54
Speaker
We've seen people go in catatonic states. We've seen people have some pretty severe physical reactions. And so I've learned, I'm not going to tempt fate. So if I start feeling that way, I usually heed the warning signs. Now, if I'm with somebody, if we've got the group of us and we're doing something, that's different because we've got a lot of instrumentation.
00:06:18
Speaker
That's when we really want to dig in and see if we could try to capture the fingerprint of something that's going on. But if it's just me working out there during the day on something, I'll usually heed those warnings and get off. But it can happen rapidly. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think for anyone familiar with the show knows that you've had some pretty serious injuries in the past. So to hear that you are working on your own in some instances, do you have
00:06:47
Speaker
How would you go about contacting someone you mentioned you have bad cell service and stuff? Like are there still risks involved with being on your own on the ranch?
Weather Balloon Experiments and Anomalies
00:06:57
Speaker
Well, and I need to I need to qualify that statement You're never truly alone on the ranch With all of our monitoring and everything so whenever I'm on the ranch
00:07:11
Speaker
One, security knows, and then we've got our scientist, Eric Bard, and I let him know, right? And he's really good at keeping tabs on me and making sure that if I'm out irrigating,
00:07:27
Speaker
We, we generally don't let people go out by themselves it's not a good idea but frankly at the end of the day there's just some tasks that have to get done and and if I had to wait, are we only get water, we to irrigate the land water the land.
00:07:42
Speaker
we don't get to choose those times that we get the water. They just tell us, this is your turn, and you can either take the water or you can let it run down the ditch. And here in Utah, second driest state in the United States, every drop of water is precious. So that means that I'm out there on the ranch at a good portion of our turn to take the water happens at night. And so if I'm sitting there trying to coordinate with other team members, it just becomes impractical.
00:08:11
Speaker
I've kind of, there are times that I just, I go do my own thing, but I'm always careful. Like I check in with Eric, right? And security knows that I'm out there. And then we've got our caretakers that are there most of the time. And so helps never far away.
00:08:27
Speaker
Uh, but if something bad's happening, sometimes 10 minutes can be the difference between something really bad and, and, and, uh, we've had individuals go into catatonic state, in which case I'd be at the total mercy of Eric checking in or, or, you know, dragon or Caleb checking in and saying, okay, where's he at? Is he okay? And, uh, so there there's, look, I know when I go on that ranch, there's risks involved. It's something that I've accepted and, uh,
00:08:58
Speaker
You have to look at the risk rewards and say the opportunity to be part of this team, the opportunity to be involved in this investigation carries risks. And I either accept them or I find something else to do. No, that's fair enough. And I suppose you've been working together as a team for a few years now. So I suppose you form that bond, that cohesion where you naturally look out for one another and you're kind of almost hyper aware of what everyone's doing. Am I right in saying that?
00:09:26
Speaker
absolutely yeah we we have a very we call it ranch family uh we you know we're very close and you do get a sense uh i mean we've been together now going on what six years and you get a sense of the movement and just over time we've we've developed
00:09:47
Speaker
policies and procedures and just habits that we follow. So we keep a close eye on each other and that is part of it that helps mitigate the risk because I know those guys got my back. Excellent. And you know you've got your core team and obviously Brandon we see in the TV series seems to play an active role but is that the same in reality? Is he constantly in touch with you guys or visiting the ranch on a regular basis?
00:10:13
Speaker
Absolutely. Brandon's very hands on. The thing I love about Brandon is he doesn't micromanage. So, excuse me.
00:10:24
Speaker
Uh, you know, he's very successful. He's very busy, uh, businessman. And the, the great thing about Brandon is he, he assigns everybody their roles and then he just trusts you that you're going to take care of that. And he doesn't micromanage. Uh, but we all are, you know, we all check in with him on a regular basis. Um, Eric's in touch with him on a daily basis. So he's very hands-on anytime something happens, uh, there's not.
00:10:53
Speaker
I don't think that there's much that happens on that ranch that Brandon is not aware of. Excellent. Excellent. Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to go into a few sort of more technical questions about things that we have seen through the TV show and maybe things that we've heard on social media. And it's kind of to do with different experiments, I suppose, that you've done on the ranch that have kind of for me personally, I've just wanted to ask more questions about them.
00:11:17
Speaker
Now, one thing that, I mean, I'm a UFO UAP guy, and yes, I'm interested in the kind of paranormal aspect as well. But with regards to the UAP side of the investigations, one thing you have done is utilize weather balloons. But you've not had a lot of luck with them because, you know, sometimes they seem to have popped or not gone up to where you want them to. Do you put that down to bad luck or do you genuinely, genuinely believe that there is something affecting them?
Equipment Malfunctions and Personal Experiences
00:11:45
Speaker
Well, let me ask you, how many times do you, how many failures do you finally switch from bad luck to something's going on? What's that number? Man, that's a, I'm on the spot now. That's a great question. I guess I don't really have an answer because I've not physically done it, but then now I guess I'll rephrase the question. Have you got past that period yourself where it becomes a bit too convenient that it's just luck?
00:12:15
Speaker
So I came on the ranch as a very healthy skeptic. My brain is wired more for skeptic. Although I will say the ranch is a fantastic job of helping me rewire some of that. And at the beginning, you know, oh, it's a coincidence or bad luck. And then two happens and then three happens.
00:12:44
Speaker
And then four, and you're like, man, this is a huge coincidence that all these things are taking place. And then at some point, you start looking stupid is what happens. And we talk about this at the ranch a lot, sometimes trying to reach for the mundane. For example, we'll talk UAPs for a second. You see a UAP, this guy, you're like, oh, it's just a plane.
00:13:13
Speaker
And then it moved sideways, and you're like, oh, well, it's a helicopter. Then it drops down, you're like, oh, well, that's a drone. And then all of a sudden, it appears from here to there so fast. You're like, we're not aware of any drone that can move that fast. At some point, you run out of things that can logically explain what you're witnessing. And you actually look more foolish trying to fit it into the known than you would if you just said,
00:13:42
Speaker
you know, okay, that's a UAP, right? So back to the weather balloon. Yeah, we launched that weather balloon in season one. And what you have to do is just...
00:13:55
Speaker
Eric's been really good for our team in the fact that I'm getting less and less to say, oh, it's got to be this or it got to be that. Here's the facts. You tell me what you think because I'm tired of looking like a fool if I'm trying to fit it in a box that it doesn't belong in. That weather balloon was instrumented out with two separate GPS tracking devices.
00:14:21
Speaker
And we had Matt come out. He's an acquaintance of Travis Taylor's and he's launched hundreds of weather balloons. So he's very, very experienced in this. It's why we bring experts out is if we mess it up and it's our first one.
00:14:39
Speaker
and probably user error. We're trying to eliminate as many of the possibilities as we can. So we bring this expert on who has launched hundreds of weather balloons with the same type of equipment package. And interestingly enough, this was part of the fascination for me was that specific launch that we lost the balloon
00:15:01
Speaker
we're we're running into the later part of the day and the winds are picking up and while we were sitting there trying to get this thing ready, the winds were blowing. I mean, it was a pretty stiff breeze and as we are sitting there preparing, I was joking with guys. We're all joking. We're like, this thing's going to be Colorado before it even gets to that park because the wind was blowing from the west towards the east and and just to give reference, we were probably
00:15:30
Speaker
I don't know, we are several hundred feet to the south of the triangle there and just a little bit east, right? So just a tad to the east and to the south of the triangle. And we've got winds that are blowing straight out of the east. And we had smaller balloons, just your regular birthday balloons that we would fill up and we'd release them so we could get an idea of what the winds aloft were doing.
00:15:54
Speaker
So before we'd launched the big one, we'd let these little ones go and we'd see what was happening with it so we could have an expectation of what to expect. Well, these little ones are launching and they're just taken off towards the east. But that's one of the issues with filming is to try to come back tomorrow and do it.
00:16:21
Speaker
it may not even work. Ma or we've got something el day. So it's now or never. go and sure enough, it but as it's quickly ris it almost makes a U turn
00:16:41
Speaker
into the winds aloft and then it gets it goes right up through the center of that triangle I mean so it kind of backtracked to the west a little bit and went north which wasn't at all what the little balloons were doing right so now look the winds can shift I'm not saying they can't
00:17:01
Speaker
but we let this balloon go and it goes right dead center where it was that we wanted it to go. And so we're now tracking it on our electronic devices. We've got these GPS that are, and I can't remember if, I don't remember what the response rate was. If it was once a second or once every minute, it almost seems like every 60 seconds it was transmitting.
00:17:27
Speaker
And Matt's never had a problem with these. Matter of fact, he was telling us about one that hit the ground and got ran over and the thing still worked. He's like, these things are almost indestructible. We're talking about the GPS units, right? Yeah. Well, it's reporting fine. It's reporting fine. We're getting good data, good data. And right when it gets up to the 5,000 foot mark where we triangulated that this energy is coming from, it quits transmitting.
00:17:58
Speaker
It never transmits another, now that's the hard one. The second one continued to transmit for just a couple, just a little bit longer and then it went out. And to this day, we never found that balloon.
00:18:16
Speaker
We went out searched for it for a while and then there was a couple members of our production crew that searched I think for up to two weeks looking for that weather balloon and we and they when I say searched I mean we they were putting drones up we were we were using some
00:18:32
Speaker
you know, we were using drones to see if we could spot it on the ground where it crashed. We had done some triangulations and tried to figure out possible locations where it could be and try to narrow it down. And they searched all the way over to the Colorado, even into Colorado a little bit, looking for this blue. So they searched a huge swath of ground and we never found it.
00:18:54
Speaker
that's so strange yeah so bizarre and we know that you like you said there is anomalies when it kind of hits the altitude around 5 000 feet but also and you talk about the triangle area we know that there seems to be anomalies under the ground um so let's stick with equipment going wrong shall i say um let's talk about the cell phones because we've seen in the show caleb's phone for example really
00:19:18
Speaker
doing some really strange stuff that almost doesn't seem possible because it's breaking through his passcodes and stuff like that. But are there other examples that we may not have seen in the TV show of equipment going wrong without any kind of logical explanation? All the time. That's that's probably one of the
00:19:40
Speaker
Our electronics malfunctioning is probably one of the most common occurrences, most common anomalies that we witness on the ranch. We seem to witness a lot of electromagnetic interference with things, whether it's drones that are malfunctioning, falling out of the sky, thinking they're places that they're not, whether it's our cell phones. My cell phone is personally wigged out.
00:20:08
Speaker
I could give you one example. I was up on top of the Mesa working on a set of cameras one day. This was a couple of years ago and had another individual there that was just out kind of looking through the rocks below me. You know, we're always looking for signs and stuff.
00:20:30
Speaker
And this is later in the afternoon, and this individual had a headlamp, a flashlight headlamp, and it had gone dead. And so rather than packing the bag and everything up the hill, just left it at the bottom of the hill. Well, I'm up there and I'm trying to troubleshoot these cameras that are having issues with Eric.
00:20:50
Speaker
And I'm up on a ladder and I've got my cell phone up there. I'm leaning against ladder and I'm up there. And our ranch dog, our black Labrador ranch dog, William, he's up there at the base of my ladder. Right. And so I'm up on this extension ladder and I'm texting back and forth with Eric and he's, we're trying to troubleshoot between, he's, he's, uh,
00:21:16
Speaker
At this point, he was actually running things that particular day he was in his home office out on the Wasatch front. And so, you know, but so I'm communicating with him and he's telling me try this try that. And I'm up there trying to do this and all of a sudden the dog starts whimpering.
00:21:34
Speaker
William is like he's so mild mannered and and it's so out of character for him and he's and I looked down at him I'm like what's wrong William and he starts just really really whimpering I'm like what the heck well at that same time I lose control of my phone and what I mean by that is I had my message app because I was sitting there messaging Eric
00:21:56
Speaker
The messaging app closes and it starts opening up other apps. And it's doing it, you know, it's opening it up. And I go to close it and click it and it'll do something else. And I lost all control of the phone. And so I kept opening up the message app. I get into Eric and it would close it.
00:22:14
Speaker
And I'm like, what the heck? So I finally, I'm like, I can't communicate with Eric. The dog's down there whimpering and I'm thinking, okay, this isn't working. So I climbed down the ladder and I yelled down to the other person. I'm like, Hey, when you go down to command center, I can't communicate with Eric. I need to go in there and call him.
00:22:34
Speaker
and walk down to the bottom of the hill, well, here's this bag just glowing. It's pulsating. Like, what the heck? What's going on with that bag? Open it up. Well, there's that LED headlamp, which was dead, and the light is so bright. I mean, it's pulsating brighter than if you put a fresh battery in there, right? I mean, this thing's just... And it's sitting there pulsating, like...
00:23:00
Speaker
I'm like, what the heck? And so that's an incident of a time when my cell phone started misbehaving, the dog started whining, and then we've got this dead battery LED headlamp that just goes from dead to suddenly pulsing very, very bright. That's a good example of electronics. Everything from I've pulled up to the gate, I was driving to Vernal one day,
00:23:28
Speaker
I was taking my family to dinner over to Vernal and I had, I think I'd left my wallet in the command center. And so I was like, Oh, just stop real quick. I got to grab my wallet. We pull up to the gate. I got my wife and kids in the car with me. And as a rule, my kids aren't allowed out there, right?
00:23:47
Speaker
we just we don't let people go out there but I'm like I just got to grab my wallet it's going to be a quick one in one minute in and out pull up to the gate I'm in my we have a 2002 or I mean a 2012 Yukon Denali and I'm waiting for the I punched the button I'm waiting for the gate to open and while I'm waiting the radio turns itself on
00:24:09
Speaker
And this lady, it's a country song, a lady singing and the exact lyrics is, as I pulled up to the gate in my GMC and my kids are like, no way dad. And I'm like, oh, you got to be kidding me. And so, I mean, everybody saw, nobody touched the radio. We didn't turn it on.
00:24:31
Speaker
I run and grab my wallet and we spent the rest of the night. My kids are like doing lyric searches, trying to find a song that matches those. We never found it. If anybody else out there, your listeners knows of a country song with a lady singing, I pulled up to the gate in my GMC. I would love to know what song that is, but strange stuff like that happens constantly.
00:24:54
Speaker
So like, for example, when things do malfunction like that, do you then go back to the command center and look for energy spikes or any kind of activity that may have been captured on the equipment you have in the control center?
Collaboration with UAPX Team
00:25:08
Speaker
everything to the best of our ability we try to report everything to Eric regardless of how inconsequential it may seem to us and you know I'm not the scientist there it's not up to me to determine what's important what's not important
00:25:25
Speaker
Anytime anything out of the ordinary appears to happen, we're all instructed to let Eric know. Eric is meticulous and very detailed. He'll collect the data, and then maybe it helps out, maybe it doesn't. But it also allows him. And now, I have to say, we were all skeptical when we started this. And this has been a
00:25:52
Speaker
It's been a journey for all of us. We're not professional paranormal investigators. I didn't go to college for that, neither did anybody else. And so there's been a learning curve here of, oh, something's happening. I need to have presence of mind to get a timestamp. That's so critical. And it sounds simple, and yet
00:26:16
Speaker
I have to admit like I'm well into the well into my time at the ranch before I finally have gotten to the point where something happens I'm like timestamp you know and sometimes it requires notes so that I can tell Eric go back and look at the equipment did we see an RF spike did we see gamma rays did we see something on the cameras
00:26:38
Speaker
And so yeah, you're right. Like we always report that. And then Eric, that gives Eric the ability to go back and say, did we see anything happening across the ranch? Was there an RF spike? Can we explain this phone going crazy with maybe a high spike? The problem with the RF though, I mean, we've, we've got trifield meters that do the RF, but when we're talking about spectrum analyzers, the spectrum is so massive that
00:27:06
Speaker
to try to watch the entire spectrum is the data that it requires. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack is what it's like.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I just want to take a second to thank Mr. Gary Voorhees Jr. Thank you for the $20, Gary. Gary says I will forever be grateful to Thomas and Dragon for saving Jason. Now, it's no secret that the guys at UAPX have visited the ranch in the past year, whether you can talk that much about it. Maybe, maybe not. But can you talk about what it was like meeting those guys and working with them in a general, on general terms?
00:27:44
Speaker
Well, I could just say being in my position, I can neither confirm nor deny their visit, but I can confirm I have met them. And I'll tell you, very impressed. I mean, we're talking about no-nonsense individuals.
00:28:04
Speaker
Look, I, I like getting around people that I feel are grounded, that are seeing you. I don't like it when I get around people I feel preconceived agendas, like, if you have an agenda to prove it's true or an agenda to prove it's not true. I'm a skeptical of both ends of the spectrum, right?
00:28:23
Speaker
I like people that are grounded and that just says, you know, we'll go wherever the data takes us and and in meeting those individuals. That's really the way I felt was I felt like I was dealing with like minded individuals. It's like, we're just going to follow the data and
00:28:39
Speaker
know, see where it takes us. And to meet them, to hear of their own personal experiences, I'm a big fan. I'll say that. That's great to hear. And that'd be obviously, they've got some great work due to drop soon, I think. So I think everybody's looking forward to that. So Gary, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate it. Moving on to one thing that really, really stood out to me, and I think this was in season two was
00:29:05
Speaker
the time when the rabbi was brought out to perform the ancient ritual just away from Homestead 2. And what we saw on the show was obviously this thing forming. I think it was above a doorway that I guess I'm just going to say it looked like a portal, which we know has been reported on the ranch before. Temperature drops drastically. I mean, I have so many questions. I can't pinpoint one, but what
00:29:34
Speaker
Was it was anything ever did that investigation go on for a lot longer than we saw? Were there any conclusions formed? Like, where are you with that kind of strange activity? Yeah, so I have a lot of questions, too. It seems for every one answer we get, we create 100 more questions.
00:30:01
Speaker
You know, so to answer your question, yes, that exercise has caught our attention a lot. And again, what we've been dealing with out there a lot is electromagnetic interference frequency, right? And so when Rabbi Ariel's talking about how his culture, the Jewish culture has tonal technologies that can open portals,
00:30:30
Speaker
it gets our attention. And again, like, I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical when we go out, you know, you hear him start doing his chant and we're all sitting there watching. And yeah, you got to realize what you're seeing on TV,
00:30:52
Speaker
You know, we film for months and it's taken down, let's see, that was season two. So we had 10 episodes. Okay. And I want the listeners to understand. So we film for months. And when I say we film, I mean, we're filming minimum five days a week.
00:31:13
Speaker
And we're on that ranch. There's been times where we filmed like 16 hours through, like our filming days are long. And when we're not filming, we're getting ready for the next experiment. There were so many times during our
Unique Experiments and Phenomena
00:31:31
Speaker
filming interval where we would put in long, long hours filming, we would finish.
00:31:38
Speaker
Then our teams get tired, but we've got an experiment planned. We're bringing so-and-so in from across the United States and they're going to be here at 8 a.m. and we need to be ready to execute this experiment. And so what happens is we get done filming and then we literally will spend the rest of the night preparing for the experiment.
00:32:00
Speaker
And then it's like, oh, the sun's back up. I need to run home and shower and get ready so we could start filming again. And so the whole point of this is we're talking about months of experiments and film. And then we have to condense it down to 10 episodes. And I don't know what the exact minute count is, somewhere 43 or 47 minutes, somebody can...
00:32:28
Speaker
Somebody can check that next time when they're looking, but 430 minutes. And when you look at the amount of time and the amount of film that we did, we're talking about 1%. So what you're seeing on TV is like the exciting parts, the highlights, the parts that are going to captivate the audience. What you don't see is the hours and hours of prep leading up to it.
00:32:53
Speaker
And sometimes during the experiment, the hours that we did during it, in case a point that the rabbi, yeah, we spent a lot of time there, right? And then of course, the long analyzed period that takes Eric spends months after we finished filming, I mean months and Travis too, but mainly Eric analyzing and sifting through the mountains of data. And so,
00:33:20
Speaker
As far as a rabbi, we repeated that twice. The first time we did it, we was live with the rabbi. And it was a warmer night. And what ended up happening is we saw this vortex of cold air.
00:33:39
Speaker
that just kind of like, I mean, it's not like it floated in and floated out. We're watching this thermographic camera and the flare and all of a sudden you just start seeing this start materializing and it creates this big black hole. Well, the black hole, we ran down there. And I tell you as an individual running into that,
00:33:59
Speaker
Uh, I grew up, my family, my family has a grocery business and I grew up walking into the deep freeze from, I know what that's like going straight into the 10 below zero. This was different. This cold light goes through you. It's, it's like humid cold. It penetrated and it was like, it was bone chilling and it was so, it was just like a wall. Um.
00:34:26
Speaker
Obviously, we couldn't see anything with our naked eye. All this is being picked up on the camera. But I stopped and thought about it. I'm like, we hear about portals, but I don't even know what a portal looks like. Would I know a portal if I saw one? And so you see the thermographic camera. You see this black vortex. Well, then we repeated it a short time later.
00:34:52
Speaker
that the second time we did it it was cooler outside like i believe the thermometer was 43 or 47 degrees so i mean it's cold and the opposite thing happened we had a vortex of warm air that materialized same spot right so part of the scientific method or uh yeah the scientific method is being able to repeat your results so
00:35:16
Speaker
Without going in and giving away anything else just know like anytime that we can produce a repeatable Back now twice is not enough to say it could have been a coincidence, right? Yeah, and and then the other thing that happens is that means we need to create a baseline and
00:35:32
Speaker
Would we see that normally if we didn't play a chant? Does it happen to be something about that particular geographic location or the trees or something in the physical makeup? So what it does is it creates a lot of groundwork for us. We got to go get a really good solid baseline. How does it behave normally? And then repeat the experiment more because, again, twice could be a coincidence, maybe.
00:36:01
Speaker
But it is fascinating that we did it twice and we got the inverse reaction, but it was the same basic thing.
00:36:09
Speaker
Excellent, excellent. Thank you for that. And I just want to reiterate for everybody watching this live, if you do have questions, please pop them in capital letters because I'm switching between talking with Thomas, checking my notes and checking the live chat. It's quite difficult to catch every question, but capital letters will give you the best chance to get them. And I will note them and ask them towards the end of the interview. So thank you. Thomas, another thing, you used alpacas at one point to bring in now
00:36:38
Speaker
I don't know whether that was, or what the reason was, but one thing that was shown in the series was that there was a time where you discovered they'd been attacked and there were bite marks. Did anything ever get, you know, did that get sorted? Did you find out what had done the bites? Was it, you know, a Prozac? Was it a coyote or anything like that? Or was it kind of anomalous?
00:37:02
Speaker
Okay, so I'm going to have to be very politically careful here. Here's the thing, we always want to be completely transparent and that was, I love the professionals that we work with with the production team. The entire group from the top down, you know, at first it was Kevin Burns and then
00:37:25
Speaker
You know, Kevin passed away and now we have Joe Lessard and Kim Shearer. They're all professionals from the top down. And I have nothing but admiration. And I mean, this group of people is, we couldn't ask for any better, right? And one of the agreements when we went into this was that we were never to fabricate. Brandon was crystal clear.
00:37:49
Speaker
Like if you're gonna come in and document our investigation, then you're gonna document it. We're not fabricating anything, we're not gonna embellish anything. Are we willing to reenact something that maybe wasn't caught on camera as long as it's factually correct what really happened, right? We're not gonna recreate and embellish. Our scientists, Eric and Travis were like, we got too much on the line credibility wise to be fabricating.
00:38:25
Speaker
If you're to watch just the pure science on TV, our ratings would probably be, you know, the hundred people out there in the world that, that dig that kind of thing. But your average person coming home from work that just wants to turn the TV on and be entertained is not going to like that. So there has to be a give and take, you know, they add in their music. Uh, sometimes we laugh cause you get the looks, you know, like, and you're like, wait a second here, right? We gotta, we gotta add the drama in the alpaca output episode is one.
00:38:40
Speaker
That being said, you also
00:38:55
Speaker
And it's been a learning experience for all of us, but that's one where we got a little bit upset. Did they lie? No, they didn't. Cause you can look, you can edit me to make me look say and do almost anything. They have a camera on me 16 hours a day. Yeah. They have enough probably to sink me forever. Oh, right. So with the alpacas here, here's the facts that we have of the alpacas did the camera.
00:39:26
Speaker
facing that direction work? No, it didn't. Do we know why? No, we don't. Is that strange? Yes, it is. Was that the only camera on Skinwalker Ranch during that? No, it wasn't. So were we able to get other camera angles? Not of the Corel per se, right? But did we have other angles of coming and going off the ranch that maybe allowed us to see what that was? Yes, we did. And
00:39:53
Speaker
And so it was played off as if we weren't sure what it was. And yet, you know, it was a pack of tribal dogs. Right.
00:40:05
Speaker
and then attack the alpacas. Now, there's nothing strange about tribal dogs attacking alpacas except for, and this is where we're telling them, like, guys, in the future, let's frame this a little bit different. And rather than the way it was framed, which we, I have to say, our team was a little upset about the way that that once, and I'll tell you, it's only been that one episode. We've been fine with pretty much everything else, that one episode.
00:40:32
Speaker
Here's the things is we've had animals up to that point. We've had animals on that ranch for a couple of years and nothing's touched them. We had calves there. You know, we've had other animals on the ranch and those dogs. I see those dogs every day when I come in and out. They've stayed put. They haven't attacked anything.
00:40:53
Speaker
We bring the alpacas on and literally, we have them in the corral right by the command center. And within less than 12 hours of them arriving at the ranch, Harris comes as pack and attacks them.
00:41:05
Speaker
that I find kind of strange like did something affect those dogs that made them were the alpacas carrying a scent that I don't know what it was and why did that camera quit working right so there there are definitely strange things surrounding that whole incident we don't know
00:41:25
Speaker
why we can go a couple years and never have so much as a hiccup. And then bam, we bring on alpacas, this exotic meat, this weed joke, you know, these exotic animals. And look, we're all of us on there are animal lovers. And this was the other thing is like, we would never intentionally try to put an animal in harm's way. Do we have the animals on there for biosensors? Have there been cattle mutilations there? Yes.
00:41:53
Speaker
Are we curious about that? Absolutely. But are we out there like intentionally trying to put animals in harm's way so we can advance science? Absolutely not. And we actually at the alpacas closest to the command center, literally like we're talking less than 50 feet away from the command center. Here's the alpacas for the night. They get attacked. We don't know why the camera misbehaved. And I definitely don't understand why those dogs, which came
Impact on Personal Life and Worldview
00:42:20
Speaker
on and attacked
00:42:23
Speaker
Why did they choose? What made them do it, right? It wasn't a characteristic with the other three years of baseline that we had. Yeah, that's a long explanation, but I don't want to say I have to. It wasn't fabricated, but the way that things can be perceived is.
00:42:42
Speaker
is amazing through editing, right? No, absolutely. I'm with you, and I really do it. I appreciate you going into that kind of depth of detail, so thank you. Now, I'm just going to ask you this question, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to check on my daughter, so I will hear the answer through these, but I'm going to ask you. My good friend Benji asks, Thomas, how has your experiences at The Ranch changed your personal outlook on life, the world, and your relationship with others?
00:43:10
Speaker
That's a great question. So it's completely changed it. The world I wake up in now is completely different than the world that I used to wake up before the ranch. And I do get asked this quite a bit. And whoops. Great.
00:43:40
Speaker
Are you still there? Yeah, just had to check on my daughter. Sorry, she's okay. You okay? Something happened. As long as you can see me, my computer just went blank. You can hear me? I can hear you fine. Can you see me? I can see you, yeah. Okay. Well, I can't see you anymore, but I'm staring at the black screen. It's fine.
00:44:08
Speaker
As long as your head's good, we're good. I'm, I'm staring at a, at a, it's, it's, it's blurry. It's like a blank blurry screen, but anyways, it doesn't matter. Um, back to your question. I've witnessed too many things on the ranch that I, I can't explain. Um, probably the most traumatic thing that happened to me was my head injury, which, um, you know, they talk a little bit about on the show. Um,
00:44:35
Speaker
There is so much to my head injury that took place. There's the physical aspects. There's the psychological things that took place during that. There's been the investigation on it that's happened since. And it's hard to say which aspect has been most disturbing. I'd say the physical part, which was absolutely the most horrendous thing I've experienced physically in my life. The pain was
00:45:05
Speaker
indescribable you know they show on TV they show the bump on the back of my head well yeah that that that specific brain scan that they I think it looks really dramatic in that I think that's why they chose that one or maybe that's the only one I gave them I'm not quite sure to be honest because they asked for them
00:45:27
Speaker
And I shared some with them, but that particular scan happens to be after I was operated on. So my head completely, I had fluid that came in and completely separated the fatty tissue from my skull to where like by the end of the second or third day, I could grab my hair and walk my.
00:45:46
Speaker
my head around you know it wasn't attached so I could grab and move it around it was it was completely and and they came in and did an incision on the back and so that it could drain out and so everything like the fluid and everything pulled back to that spot and I get a lot of uh questions on this online they're like oh you say that the injury happened on the backs the injuries was back here on the back of my head
00:46:10
Speaker
And yet the CAT scan shows it up on the top and they're like, you know, you're not even pointing to the same place. Well, that's because, uh, that is actually where they put the little wick in that. And so all that fluid and everything was, was coming back to that spot and that particular brain scan shows that pulled up right there. But.
00:46:31
Speaker
It happened all over my head and it was very traumatic. I'm not to the point yet that I feel comfortable talking about it much in public. Maybe that'll change in the future, I don't know. But that experience changed almost everything for me.
00:46:58
Speaker
I witnessed and experienced too much to be the same person as I was before. And so I've come to the conclusion that there's a lot in this world we don't understand. That's how I compartmentalize it. That's a great answer. And thank you so much for sharing that with us. It must be difficult to.
00:47:17
Speaker
to relive and go through those kind of things. So it is really appreciated. Now that small technical issue that we just had right there just automatically pinged in my head to something like Hitchhiker Effect or something like that. Is that something that you have experienced personally where you've gone home and you've had strange things happen like you've taken it home with you? That's been the worst part of being associated with the ranch is, yes.
00:47:44
Speaker
We've had many, many traumatic things happen at home. Unfortunately, my wife and kids have been affected. And I can handle, if stuff happens to me, that's fine. It was my personal choice to be involved. Now, did I know what I was getting into? I absolutely didn't. There's part of me sometimes that wishes I would have taken it more serious when I went on. But yeah, hindsight's 20-20. I don't believe in looking back and saying what if.
00:48:15
Speaker
It is what it is. The unfortunate thing is that by the time I realized it was real, it was too late. And yes, we've had more traumatic things happen at my house in the privacy of my home than, unfortunately, it's the part that in some ways breaks my heart. I had my son pull me aside before we started filming season two. And he pulled me aside and he's like,
00:48:46
Speaker
like, are you sure it's all worth it? And I had to really pause and think about that. And the issue with the hitchhiker effect is, if I thought that I could leave that ranch and it would leave me alone, if I could leave the ranch and the ranch would leave me, I would seriously consider doing it for the sake of my family.
00:49:13
Speaker
The unfortunate thing is we have a lot of examples of individuals that have been on that ranch who took the hitchhiker effect home. And long after they disassociated with the ranch, and when I say disassociated, some of these individuals have gone to pretty far extremes, burning clothes and stuff. I don't know if they've literally burned clothes, but I'm just saying they've gone to extremes. Anything associated with the ranch, they have
00:49:40
Speaker
They've ridded themselves of and smudged themselves trying to put distance between them, the ranch, and to no avail. So I look at that and I say, well, I see a lot of examples here of individuals that tried to leave the ranch, but the ranch never left them alone.
Innovative Experiments and Technology
00:49:58
Speaker
And so if I can't be guaranteed that me exiting the ranch is going to guarantee that my family is going to be left alone, then if we're going to continue to be terrorized, I might as well be in the middle of it and trying to find answers and trying to figure out what it is that's affecting us. I actually think it'd be worse if I leave the ranch and then my family continues to suffer the effects of the ranch.
00:50:23
Speaker
But I have no connection, no communication with the scientist. I don't have a team behind me that I can lean on. There's sometimes things happen at my house and they make us feel like we're going crazy, like we're losing touch with reality. And there are some days the only comforting thing is, is to be able to reach out to a team member and say, hey, hey, Dragon, hey,
00:50:44
Speaker
Eric, Caleb, Travis or whoever it is and have them say, oh my gosh, we had the same thing happen here. We're experiencing this and to be able to lean on each other and realize we're not going crazy. We're all experiencing the same thing. We tell people the ranch isn't something that can be explained. It has to be something that's experienced. And it's kind of a small fraternity of people that have been there. And so that's one of the things that keeps me going back because I'm like,
00:51:15
Speaker
I tell people when I went on the ranch, I didn't realize it's like the mob. There's only one way out. And so it is what it is. I really appreciate you saying that. And it really resonates with me being a father. I can only begin to imagine what you've been through. So again, I have to thank you for sharing that with us. It really means a lot. So thank you.
00:51:40
Speaker
Julie Bowen asks, have you used music to try and communicate or cause reactions with the phenomena?
00:51:55
Speaker
I'll just say there's the official science investigation that the scientists are looking at. And of course, everything, you know, everything happens that goes in the database, right? You can't separate. We tell people once you come on the ranch, you are part of it because, right. So I'm not trying to separate it out, but I will say my wife is extremely gifted with music and frequency.
00:52:19
Speaker
She she has a extreme gift. I've talked about it on other podcasts before So we have a company Surrounding it residents meditations So music and frequency plays a huge part in my life personally With with my wife being gifted like she is Where it's amazing what frequency can do
00:52:47
Speaker
And because of our research in regards to her company and what's being done with sound in terms of healing, in terms of interacting with the world around us, everything's frequency. Albert Einstein proved that mathematically. And as such, it only makes sense that music and that can have an effect. So that being said, kind of a long answer to the question is,
00:53:14
Speaker
Because of that connection I have personally, that's something that's always on my mind. And I'll say that it's something that's discussed often among us at the ranch. And I have, yes, I'm trying to be careful here. This is one of those areas I just need to. Sure, no problem at all. With the upcoming season, you know, we'll see.
00:53:39
Speaker
No, that's good. Thank you. I really do appreciate that.
Recent Unsettling Phenomena
00:53:43
Speaker
Jay Allen asks, would you mind asking if they have installed any new sensor systems recently, any new telemetry data? If we've installed any new stuff? Any new sensor systems. And I guess the second question is, is there any new telemetry data?
00:54:00
Speaker
So we are always upgrading. As a matter of fact, as soon as we got done filming season three, Eric and I personally underwent a huge, I'm not going to call it renovation, but every year we find ways that we can improve our systems, maybe holes that we had because of data that we get, we find, oh, we need to be watching this area or we need to be watching for this.
00:54:29
Speaker
The challenges with the ranch is it's remote, first of all. And we're trying to have minimal impact on the lands. And then you add in the fact that even though Brandon has done very well and is a very wealthy individual, we still operate on a budget, right? So we still have to be frugal with our funds.
00:54:54
Speaker
And so all those things combined lend to an interesting dynamic in the fact that when we want to upgrade our systems, which we're always doing, we have to figure out a way to get power network out in the middle of nowhere to run these things.
00:55:10
Speaker
We tried to set up a Wi-Fi mesh at one point early on. It was recommended. We thought, well, maybe that would be a good way to do it. But unfortunately, because of the electronic interference that we deal with out there, we could never keep it up. We couldn't keep the Wi-Fi mesh up. It was so unreliable and it
00:55:33
Speaker
To be honest, I don't think that we got anything out of it. So we've kind of learned we have to hardwire everything that we have. And so yes, we are always upgrading. And as soon as we got done filming, Eric and I actually underwent a pretty extensive upgrade this off season. We've been in the middle of upgrading a lot of things, new sensors,
00:55:59
Speaker
new equipment, new areas of the ranch that we hadn't previously been able to get to. And that's still in the works even today. So we're always adding, we're always improving. Brandon's been very supportive. This is an endeavor that's not publicly financed. So when we buy new cameras, when we put in systems, well, that came from Brandon's hard earned money. That's not
00:56:28
Speaker
That's private money there, so we're always careful
Looking Forward to Season 3
00:56:31
Speaker
with it. But Brandon's been very, very good and very supportive in trying to help us make sure that we have what we need. Excellent. Excuse me. A couple more questions before I let you go. Like I said, I really appreciate your time. Tina McLaren asks, is there any one specific type of activity that makes you more uncomfortable than the rest? A specific activity type?
00:56:57
Speaker
or a specific aspect of the phenomena that's more worrying than, you know. Yes, there is. And I'll be honest, I just discovered it this last summer. I didn't know it existed.
00:57:16
Speaker
That's all I could say about it. And I'll just say stay tuned for the upcoming season to air, because I would imagine that, uh, that you're going to see what it is. And, uh, it, I'll just say I, I didn't sleep for several nights, uh, after discovering this. Wow.
00:57:40
Speaker
Cliffhanger. Wow. I mean, that kind of leads into my final question is, which was, what can we expect from the season three? Season three was intense. Right. And I'll be honest, again, going back to what I explained before, we filmed so much. I'm going to be just as surprised as the audience when we sit down and
00:58:09
Speaker
We're watching these episodes there. I don't know what's going to make it. What 1% are they going to show? I'm glad I don't have their job because season three gave us so much material that I can't say for sure what will make it and what won't.
00:58:31
Speaker
season three is going to be intense. I've been excited the other two seasons. Season one was special. If you'd asked me a couple of years ago or if you told me a few years ago that I was going to be on TV, I would have laughed in your face. I'm just a small rural boy here in Utah. Never even thought about doing
00:58:53
Speaker
Hollywood TV, any of this. This was so far removed. So season one was exciting. You know, I get to see myself on TV. That was kind of cool. But the excitement for season one and two doesn't even begin to compare to how excited I am for season three. Season three takes a cake by far. I cannot wait to see
00:59:16
Speaker
what is unveiled because the thing is to see after season three airs and we know what did and didn't show we're free that then we're free to it's kind of like talking about those alpacas now right like could have never talked about that before it aired but now that it's aired it gives us a lot of liberty to to go beyond what was or wasn't shown excellent and do we have a release date for season three or a premiere date you know to my knowledge i don't think that they've released one yet um
00:59:45
Speaker
And I'm not privy to that. So I'm guessing just like everybody else, but I know like season one and two, if my memory serves me right, I think season one started airing like the end of March. And then season two was the beginning of May. So in my mind, I'm thinking that, you know, it should drop here within the next couple months.
01:00:14
Speaker
So I've heard rumors of early May, so let's hope that's the case. Well, listen, Thomas, thank you so much for doing this. I really, really do appreciate it. It's been fascinating.
01:00:25
Speaker
I hope you'll come back when season three, maybe midway through or towards the end, we'll do this again and you may be able to talk us through some of the new findings that happened. I know you've got a limited time, so I'll let you go and then I'll say goodbye to my chat here. But is there anything you want to say before you go? I hope you've had a good time. Oh, it's been great. I have to say,
01:00:50
Speaker
I did one other podcast with an individual, I think they were in Scotland. And the thing is, I didn't really realize it until it took place. And the thought that this show is global is kind of, for me, it's inspiring to think that this is not just a show that's regional, but that it's international. And so I appreciate you reaching out and making contact.
01:01:20
Speaker
And I'm always happy. I'll be happy to come on again sometime in the future if you'd like. Thank you. Oh, 100%.
01:01:29
Speaker
we wouldn't look the investigation is going to continue whether the whether the tv show continues or not that's not going to have any effect on our investigation where yeah the investigation moves forward it was happening before the show it'll happen after the show um but it is a lot of fun to be able to show people the highlights of some of the things that we're witnessing out there and
Global Audience and Community Engagement
01:01:53
Speaker
And the TV shows brought a lot of awareness to the arena. My goal is, or my hope is, that hopefully by applying science to this arena, we can start to bring it mainstream and make it so it's less stigmatized, bring a little more credibility to the area, maybe start divining some parameters upon which
01:02:15
Speaker
Things are based upon and bring some structure to it, right? And because really it's the only way we're going to figure it out. And when when I first I was never in the paranormal space before the ranch and as I started to come into it, I'm like, wow. Like this, this is kind of like a space for which you can claim anything. Prove nothing. And the entire audience follow you. It just was mind boggling to me and
01:02:45
Speaker
And so my hope is like, we really wanna apply the science into this. We live in an amazing world. There's a lot happening that we are actually a very primitive species and it's arrogant for us to think that we've got it all figured out or that we're even alone in the universe. So hopefully we can use our primitive scientific methods
01:03:08
Speaker
And the hope is, is maybe we can make some advancements. If we can start to figure out what's going on at Skinwalker Ranch and at some of these other places around the world, then maybe it enables us to advance our science. And then that obviously helps us better our quality of life. And so I appreciate our fans. I get really long-winded. Sorry. I really appreciate our fans. She's fine. I love it. I love it.
01:03:37
Speaker
Without the fans and without the people watching the show, there's no show. And then it just sets back our ability to try to, again, bring awareness, bring credibility. You know, these are really our goals. So I appreciate each person that tunes in and watches. We appreciate you a lot and anything we can do to engage our fans. I'll tell you, Brandon.
01:03:58
Speaker
Brandon is very interactive on social media. You jump on Twitter. He's constantly replying to people. He's good on the...
01:04:09
Speaker
Facebook and Instagram. Social media has been something I've had to learn. It's an acquired place for
Conclusion and Thanks to Audience
01:04:16
Speaker
me. I'm getting better at it, but I tend to go hot and cold on it. But any interaction we can have with people in the space, we're happy to have. So we appreciate all of you.
01:04:28
Speaker
fantastic. I'll say thank you once again and thank you to everybody that's watched this live and commented and asked questions and thank you to everybody watching after the fact whether it be on YouTube or listening through the Anomalous Podcast Network. I really appreciate you all and finally before we go I'd just like to reiterate that the trailer for our upcoming documentary series
01:04:49
Speaker
Phenomenology is going to be released tomorrow, the trailer. You can find the link in the description below here on YouTube. For now, guys, thank you so much. I will see you in a few days' time for another interview, but thank you to Thomas and everyone. I really appreciate all the support and hope you have a good rest of your day. For now, we'll see you later. Goodbye.