Transcript
Danny Price: everyone. Welcome back to the Table Talk Discussions podcast. We are trying to rebrand a little bit. I'll talk about that here in a second. I'm here with Shane Finley. um We have been traditionally Table Talk Recap for the past 20 episodes. um But a couple things.
Danny Price: First of all, I don't know why, but Table Talk Recap just does not flow off the tongue for some people, and it's hard to remember. um Table Talk Discussions may might be a little easier. The other thing is we've been recapping sermons from Mountain View for...
Danny Price: 20 episodes and we're good. We're not going to, I'm going to tell you guys what we're doing exactly, but there's going to be some episodes coming out, hopefully in the near near future that are not recaps.
shane: Thank you.
Danny Price: So we're not going to necessarily be spending every single episode we do on just the sermons and just recapping the sermons and going over that. We're going to be discussing things, topics more.
Danny Price: um i don't think we're going to, we're not going to jump into that fully in the sense that we're going to be done. but I think we're always going to be going over the sermons at Mountain View, but I just didn't want to limit us with the name and with the description and all that of just, hey, we're pigeonholed into just doing, recapping the sermon.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: If that makes sense.
shane: Well, also, I think it really is more of a discussion of, it's discussion based on the sermon more than it is a, don't know, when I think of a recap, I think of like, here's a summary of this.
Danny Price: Yeah. And we're not, honestly, I'd probably, we probably do a bad job at that. Um, because a lot of these questions are just like, we'll focus in on one tiny aspect of the sermon as opposed to like the whole sermon.
shane: Yeah.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Like we're like, and here's, was his summary and here was his three points. Like we don't do that as much. I know I've seen, and and I've actually listened to a couple podcasts that do that. Um, and it's cool.
shane: Oh, really?
Danny Price: Yeah. Um, South mountain does their fully delighted podcast. That's kind of what they do is they go, he goes through his notes and like goes through the sermon a little bit more. Um, And I think it's awesome to do that, but I think we're leaning for more towards, and you passed on what's his face to me, Josh Haverton, the guy that does the, I can't think of their church.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: There's is a little bit different than us too, but there's is again is more of a, yeah, live free is more of a discussion based.
shane: Live free.
Danny Price: And again, they do like Joe Rogan style minutes. They do like three hours.
shane: Yeah, they have gas. They have the whole deal. they have
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: They have money to do production, too.
Danny Price: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Right now this is Danny funded ah crappy editing software. Um, Anyways, so just to give you guys a little bit of a glimpse of what's to come, that's kind of the future thing going on right now. So um I don't think we're it's going to be like every single week we'll come out with a separate episode. This is like, you know, maybe once a month we'll find some topic. But if you guys are interested in things, we already had one listener reach out to us and ask about doing something.
Danny Price: um But if you are interested in different topics or hearing about, you know, our our thoughts, you know, hopefully biblically on XYZ topic, we'd love to do that. So anyways, we're going to jump into the message.
Danny Price: If you were here on Sunday, Shane did not teach. It was Dave Nelson. He used to be the pastor at K2. um Dave's taught for us here at Mountain View for, don't know, a handful of sermons in the past little bit.
Danny Price: um Maybe just really quick, Shane, catch everyone up on who Dave is, what what he's about, why you guys have a relationship, all that.
shane: ah Yeah, Dave. Well, Dave's, first first of all, a friend. um We've known each other now for 17 years. And as the pastor at Dave has always, he always was one of the top guys ever.
shane: in Utah as far as just having a heart to help pastors that were starting out, basically anyone doing anything kingdom-minded in Utah.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: And so um when I first came, Dave was just really awesome about connecting and seeing where he could help or bless us and um was willing to meet if I ever had something I was struggling with, that kind of thing. So um he was instrumental in getting Loving Utah going, which I sat on the board for don't know, five years.
shane: um So anyway, ah yeah, we just kept the relationship going and he's been a friend of MBF, I guess is how I would would say it.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And then now he's no longer at k two um He stepped down in April and he's kind of looking for his next step of direction. He's got some exciting things that um I won't talk about.
shane: I'll let him share probably maybe the next time he preaches or some some point within the next year when he's preaching.
Danny Price: Cool.
Danny Price: Yeah, I going to ask if you knew what he's doing.
shane: But um yeah, yeah, I have some idea of it, of what what it looks like, but I don't want, and until he had until he has it all formulated on, i don't want to talk about that.
Danny Price: I didn't want to. i don't I don't have no idea. Okay.
Danny Price: Cool.
shane: so
Danny Price: Right, right, right. Well, awesome. Yeah, it was a good sermon. He's a great communicator. He's got he's got a ton of passion.
shane: Yeah, he
Danny Price: He's got a ton of passion. He gets like really elaborate or but enamored on stage. He moves around a lot and is really excited.
shane: Yeah, he's he's a very solid communicator, so. so
Danny Price: Yeah, you can tell um he loves what he does. So anyways...
shane: OK.
Danny Price: um So Shane wasn't here on Sunday. He got a chance to listen to it. I listened to it I was there on Sunday. So we're just going to kind of jump into some questions. And then the other thing I was going to say, Shane, didn't even need to tell you this. So surprise. um I want to start doing...
Danny Price: I want to have questions, but I don't want the whole thing to be questions. I want to maybe just like take out like six, like four or five topics from the sermon. And we just talked about those for a little bit, like actually more of a discussion based and then have like two or three questions.
Danny Price: Um, especially if we actually start getting listeners to like engage a little more and send us more questions. Cause that way, i can have If I have like a burning question, I can like list it. But right now, what I'm doing is I'm listing questions in a way that gets us to talk about topics where I could just say, hey, talk about this let's talk about this topic.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So maybe like two or three topics, maybe more, and then like a handful of questions. So it's it's kind of split up. So that way, where're it's not like I have...
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: i because i'm These are legit questions, so you guys know I'm not just like... A lot of these are actually questions I'm wondering, but sometimes I'm like, I want to talk more. I know Shane has something to say about this. I know I'd like to talk about this.
Danny Price: I know that the church would love to hear about this. And I have to word it in a question way where it feels a little disingenuous because I'm like, I could just ask him, hey, let's talk about this and we could do could accomplish the same goal. So anyways, you guys get the idea.
shane: Yeah, yeah. yeah
Danny Price: um Question number one. So Dave talks about unity. um the whole The whole first part of the sermon is about unity. um I don't want to beat this dead horse because we've talked about this, but how do we balance this tension between having unity with all believers and then maybe splitting and having division with um correct doctrine and like being like, hey, you know what?
Danny Price: We're not going to unite with X church or with you because youre but you you believe this thing that we would hold to be a core tenant of Christianity.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: for and like For a quick example, let's say there's a church across the way. There isn't, but I'm just saying let's say there is that teaches in Oh, let's see here. That the Trinity is not real, that Jesus was not fully God and fully man.
Danny Price: Let's just say that for an example. ah How do we experience unity?
shane: actually is a church that teaches.
Danny Price: Well, I know. Okay, but that, okay. Yes.
shane: Yeah, that's part of your whole point.
Danny Price: hey A church that is calling themselves a Protestant of evangelical church that wants to be in relationship with us, it says, ah I guess that was a poor example.
shane: Yeah. Okay.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: You get the idea. What do you, like, how do you experience unity, but also say, hey, you know what? we I can't have unity with you in a certain area. whats What's the tension there?
shane: Yeah, i ah you know, I'll go back to our EFCA doctrines is that, you know, part of the EFCA doctrines is, you know, an essentials unity and non-essentials charity, you know. And so I think it's important as a Christian to know what are essential beliefs in our faith, you know, um because there are all sorts of churches that,
shane: they say they have the word church in their name. They look even more like a church than we look. Um, in fact, they oftentimes are the churches that look very churchy, um, that have really, really bad doctrine. They don't hold to the Bible as God's word.
shane: And, um, so we do have to be careful of that. And I think it's important to know where, where, what we believe. Uh, but, i I also understand that we have a lot of people that aren't going to know exactly the difference between essentials and non-essentials, but that's, I will say, and you and I have talked about this a little bit, Danny, that's, I've been kind of thinking through like,
shane: How do we, is it is it possible, not is it possible, is there a way that we can do it that fits for who we are to start working the Apostles' Creed into our um services?
Danny Price: Let me pull that up so you guys know what we're talking about.
shane: Because, you know, the Apostles' Creed pretty much covers the basics of what we would say, hey, these these are essentials to our faith. I mean, that's why they wrote it. Right?
Danny Price: going to read it so you guys know this, just in case you've never read it.
shane: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, I was just in Atlanta with, um, some friends and, you know, they, they recite the apostles creed every week at their service.
shane: And I think it is, you know, i was like, I was kind of convicted. I'm like, this is a good way of just keeping people on track.
Danny Price: It's kind of cool.
shane: Um, you know, but at the same time talking about the, the, the liberal churches, we were, while we were in Atlanta, we probably drove by like three or four churches that they, they were pointing out like, oh yeah, they're, they're told this, that church, well, looks like a beautiful church. It's actually super liberal, super doesn't hold to God's word.
shane: um So you got it in front you?
Danny Price: Yep, I got it in front of me. I'll read it um so here it here it is. i believe in god the father almighty creator of heaven heaven and earth and in jesus christ his only son our lord who is conceived by the holy spirit born of the virgin mary suffered under pontius piate was crucified died and was buried he descended into hell on the third day he rose again from the dead he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of god the father almighty From there, he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
Danny Price: And it should be noted, when it says Catholic Church, I know that's going trip up some people. Catholic is... it's revering to a Greek word, which really means universal. So it's like the universal church that all, like, ah ah there's a reason I know that because I literally just went through this.
shane: Very good, Danny.
Danny Price: I'm going through for this other topic we're going on. I listed these um these creeds and there's a reason I know that.
shane: Oh, yeah.
Danny Price: That's not just me knowing everything. um
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But anyways, you get the idea. That's pretty cool.
shane: Yeah, um it's funny because when we read, I've gone to churches just because they don't want to, it's just too much teaching. I've been to churches that read it, that just take out the Holy Catholic Church um because they just don't want to confuse people.
shane: But this church we were at, they they did have it in there. But um you'll note, like anytime you have it, they it's not capitalized. it's So it's just using the word, the universal,
Danny Price: Yeah, and that's not Roman Catholic. Yeah.
shane: Yeah. yeah
Danny Price: I guess you could say that you did the universal, which I guess is ah is a weird word too, because you know we don't believe in universalism, but anyways...
shane: Yeah, you could change that. I don't think that would be...
shane: I'll say that's the other problem. Yeah, universalism is a whole other... I'd rather be Catholic.
Danny Price: Yeah. But it's so funny. I literally just had to Google that going through this other topic I was writing some notes down on. I was like, what does that mean? Why? I don't believe in the Catholic church. It's like, oh, wait, I do. I believe in that Catholic church.
shane: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: Anyways. um Cool. yeah Is there anything else you wanted to talk about with that unity or is that you feel good about that?
shane: yeah No, no, I think that's it. And it it is hard, you know, as as a pastor, when you've got 35 minutes, you know, which, you know, for us oftentimes means 40 minutes.
shane: But when you've got those 35 minutes to preach, it's hard to go, well, now i'm going to take three to five of those minutes and and give the people the details of what we mean when we say be unified. you know, like, hey, we're not talking about this church or that, you know, that kind of thing.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So um i you you you do preach sometimes with certain, some assumptions that honestly, sometimes those assumptions can be a little little dangerous sometimes, though.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: You have to. you know
Danny Price: And you have to think that over the course of continued of membership and attendance at a church, you would get the heart and the thoughts behind it. I mean, you're not going to catch that one-off person that's visiting from out of town, but
shane: Yeah.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: that might, that person might not be your mission. So just like what you would say, like is your one, so to speak. So it's like you're anyways, um, question number two, how do we imitate God?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Um, he talks about imitating God, um, in the sermon, what does God do that we imitate? That was a question I asked was like, what does that even mean? And is it his communic communicable poll attributes that he has? Is it his purposes? What is, what, how do we imitate?
shane: um Yeah. i like the way he said that. When he read that, he goes, you know, like pressure much, you know, because that pressure of like, how do I imitate God? Um,
Danny Price: yeah
shane: And, you know, I mean, I think, honestly, Paul answers it. I'll just read verse one two. He says, therefore, be imitators of God as beloved children and walk in love as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
shane: So, you know, he's taking kind of the end it.
Danny Price: Tell everyone where we are first. Where are we in that?
shane: Yeah, so chapter 5, verse 1 and 2. So he's taking kind of the end argument of chapter 4, where he's saying, hey, you know, i basically don't grieve the Holy Spirit by living this a against him, but rather...
Danny Price: of Ephesians.
shane: live in such a way that is honoring to God. um You know, even the end of chapter four, verse 32 says, be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another as Christ, as God in Christ forgave ye ah you.
shane: Sorry, reading over myself. um You know, and then in verse three, he's going to list all this stuff. So basically saying everything that in no way embodies God's love we shouldn't do. And, you know, and even that can like be confusing because we live in this world that when they they talk about love, um, they're always, you know, lot we, the world wants to take, say love is tolerant and it never challenges people. And it always just accepts people for where they are and, and all that.
shane: Um, it's all just mushy, making people feel good. But God's love is not, that's not the case at all. It's, it's actually, he loves you enough to knit to, to tell you what is going to lead to the most fulfilled life and believing and living in lies,
shane: will not lead to the most fulfilled life, right? I mean, so he lists all the stuff that we're to about in just minute, but sexual morality, covetedness, blah, blah. Those might make you feel good for a minute, but they're not going to lead to the life that's going to be most fulfilled in Christ.
shane: um What leads to the most fulfilled life in Christ is seeking to imitate God and what he has you. So... so
Danny Price: interesting. um I'm just like looking through some of this stuff. So when you say live the most fulfilled life, I would put a caveat there.
Danny Price: And i don't this isn't what you mean, but I know people can take it this way. of Christianity is not a self-help, oh, you just need to live your best like like live your best life type of thing.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And I think that's what you're saying, but I think... people will sometimes hear that like, Oh, I just want to be fulfilled in life.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And it's like, yes, I mean, that's, that's accurate, but also we're just, we're we're being called to obedience. We're supposed to do what God says. And that brings fulfillment.
shane: Well, yeah.
Danny Price: But it's not like Christianity is, and I'm not saying you're saying this, but it's Christianity.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: For those of you are listening is not a self-help, the best possible way to live. I think it is the best possible way to live, but it's not, it's not like someone would frame it in that kind of circle. If that makes sense. Is that confusing?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: What I just said, does that make sense for other people?
shane: No, no, I think, I think what you're saying is right.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: You know, it's that whole, it's not prosperity gospel. It's not about you. It's not any of those things. The fulfilled life is living as God calls us to live. And really, if you want to, if you want to be filled, the best way to be filled is to empty yourself.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And, you know, um because then you're going to be filled with what God has for you and not with what you, you try to make on your own.
Danny Price: Well, that's good. That's good.
shane: And anytime you're trying to make yourself happy, ah make yourself feel but all all those things of, you know, pride, self-help, self-esteem stuff, all that stuff.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: All it does is is actually lead you down a darker path usually. So.
Danny Price: Yeah. Oh, that's good. I like that. That's ah that's a good Shane quote, the whole, the best way to fill yourself is to empty yourself. I like that. Is that yours? Or is that, I'm like, it sounds good.
shane: i i yeah i mean i don't know i probably
Danny Price: It's, I like that.
shane: i don't I don't give myself credit for anything very original.
Danny Price: I know we're all, I'm a product of all the things I've listened to and read.
shane: so
shane: Yeah, I'm sure I've heard it or read it, but but I have no idea who.
Danny Price: So I don't have a lot of original ideas. Yeah. Not really like that. Um, Just ah quickly you ask this question. I was curious about this.
Danny Price: So in verse four, Paul's saying don't to not have foolish talk, crude joking, filthiness, but instead to give thanksgiving. um How do we replace all that with thanksgiving practically? Like, what is that? I don't quite see how that works. Does that just mean every time you would want to say and appropriate joke, you would just go, oh, I'm so thankful for this time. Like, how does that how does that work? i don't I don't get it.
shane: Um, yeah, I, that, that's a tough one. Um, on, and there again, I i should have taken more time to i look into that word. know, I did some thinking on it, but it'd be interesting to kind of look what the original word is that Paul's using there.
shane: Um, did we, did we look at any other versions
Danny Price: You know what?
shane: But and what what he says, no, that's okay.
Danny Price: I'm going to that right now. Let me pull the Bible app. Sorry for my for my keyboard, guys.
shane: I've got NIV pulled up real quick. um Now he says rather Thanksgiving. um You know, only thing I can, I mean, obviously I get what he's saying about let not the filthiness and foolish talk.
shane: So yeah, in my mind, what he's kind of saying is replace it with when you're going to go there. you know, replace it with, you know, I, I think we, when we, whenever we struggle with something, we kind of have to replace, uh, that negative thing with something positive.
shane: Um, and, and when you're thanking God, it's, it's kind of hard to be, it's kind of like, you know how, um, they say, if you hate someone, the best thing to do is pray for them.
Danny Price: h
shane: um When you hate someone, the best thing you do is pray for them because you can't hate someone and pray for them at the same time. You got, you know, you're, it, it starts.
Danny Price: ah
shane: So I would say the same kind of thing when you're, instead of being negative, if you have Thanksgiving in your heart and you focus on Thanksgiving in your words, then you're not going to be able to be negative.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's a good thought. ah so but I'm looking at all these comparisons. They're all some version of giving thanks for Thanksgiving.
shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: the message The message is actually interesting here. are like i The message is hit and miss for for me. Sometimes I'm like, oh gosh.
shane: Yeah, but what's it say?
Danny Price: But but this is this is interesting.
shane: Hey, by the way, the message is ah is as a paraphrase of the Bible, if you don't know what the message is.
Danny Price: It says...
Danny Price: Oh yeah, thanks. um The message says, verse 4... Though some tongues just love the taste of gossip, Christians have have better uses for language than that. Don't talk dirty or silly. That kind of talk does not fit our style. Thanksgiving is our dialect.
Danny Price: Which I think is interesting of like, that's Thanksgiving is our dialect.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: Like we should be talking. And then to kind of bounce off what you said, I don't... Again, I come unprepared for this stuff. But there was that there is a study. There's a um ah study that I was just learning about the other day ah where they, it basically has to do with your brain, the way that your chemicals fire in your brain, and the different emotions you have with hormones, et cetera, things but way above my head.
Danny Price: But what they did say was, is that it's impossible to be, to have negative like anger and like like like negative emotions at the same time that your brain is experiencing gratitude. So when you're like giving thanks and and like saying like thank you for something in gratitude it's almost and and not just saying it out loud, but like actually you feel gratitude, it is impossible for that emotion to coexist with anger or frustration. While other emotions, like love, for example, you can you can have a lot of those live together.
Danny Price: like Actually, the love center of the brain and the anger center of the brain are very close.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: They like they share ah like really like close compartments, I guess. Again,
shane: That makes a lot of sense when I think about how I feel about people I love sometimes.
Danny Price: again
shane: them
Danny Price: I know. Well, it makes sense. But apparently the locusts for Thanksgiving, like gratitude, is not really, like you cannot really experience those emotions.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And again, that's just some study that someone was citing. ah
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: please fact Please fact check me on that if you guys want to dig into that. But I thought that was an interesting concept of like, if you're really feeling thankful, you really can't feel a lot of those other things. So anyway anyways, anyways.
shane: Yeah, makes sense.
Danny Price: Cool. That was, that was good is there anything else you wanted to say on that? I thought but that was good.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Cool. um Number four, traditionally,
Danny Price: I don't know why I actually miswrote this question. i'm looking at my my my grammar here. Traditionally, how should we understand how should we understand sexual immorality?
shane: Yeah, yeah, you...
Danny Price: How does this equate with sex outside of marriage, like what Dave was saying from the pulpit? Can you walk us through verse five? um And then a subset of questioning. Does this seem a little works-based um where it says like, this should not even be named among you. Like you're not a Christian essentially is what it's kind of getting at if you're practicing this stuff. Can you talk about that a little bit? That's a big question.
shane: Yeah, so um so I would agree with what he said about sexual immorality. Any kind of sex outside of marriage is definitely sexual immorality.
Danny Price: Yeah. OK.
shane: I think the list gets bigger than that. um You know, I mean, because people might say, you know, well, I'm not actually having sex with someone.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I watch porn. Well, you're – any –
Danny Price: okay
shane: Form of going there sexually, you know, I guess, you know, if you want it.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: So if someone's going to get in piggy, so that's the basic form of it, you know, is anything outside of marriage. But I love what, what Dave said that keeps it from being,
shane: works based is he basically, you know, he said, it's not just that, Oh, I, I sin you know, I've sinned, I've done those things. It's when someone is that way, when someone chooses to live that way, they, they, they're not feeling the guilt. They're not feeling the conviction.
shane: They're not, they're not repenting of it. They're choosing that path. Because even, especially when he gets into the, cut um look at what he says here, verse five. He says, for you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, this is the part I like, or who is covetous, has no inheritance in the kingdom of God.
shane: So he's saying, if you are those things, not you've ever done them. Not you've ever failed. You've ever fallen. You've ever, you know, messed up.
Danny Price: right
shane: um I, you know, cause I, I think there's a big difference between the person who is just completely pushing the Holy spirit out and does not care. and they're going to choose that life.
shane: You know, if if you're going to talk about coveted, I would say coveting, even over sexual morality in our, in our culture,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, if we're going to disqualify every American who's ever coveted, every American who's ever, you know, been greedy, then yeah, that that's it.
Danny Price: Everybody.
Danny Price: That's everybody.
shane: You know, I mean, shoot, when I go to people's places, they have really nice things or you see like really, you know, someone who has that car that you kind of was like your dream car. Yeah. Are you never going to have just a, like yeah um hint of coveting?
shane: You probably are. I mean, I'd love to meet the person who just never does that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um But there's a difference between saying, hey, I'm going live in that versus I'm going to put that out of my mind and be grateful for them and be, you know, sharing their, you know, um their Thanksgiving and, you know, be happy for them.
shane: And, you know, and and just and also just trust God for what he's given me.
Danny Price: Yeah. No, that does. it's interesting it It was interesting, too, that he throws it in with that. Like, somehow there's a connection, and I would have to do a deeper study on that, where that connection is.
shane: Yeah, I didn't. i Yeah, it is an interesting like. It's like there this and this, you know.
Danny Price: why do yeah Why would sexual immorality, impurity, and covetousness be all in the same thread?
shane: um Yeah. And I and I did not since I didn't preach this passage, I didn't study it like that.
Danny Price: No, and yeah, I knew and i knew that, yeah.
shane: You know, I did do a little bit of it, but I didn't do anything like what I would do for preaching.
Danny Price: Right, if you have to that you have to teach it, that makes sense.
shane: Mm hmm.
Danny Price: It's interesting. um When it comes to sexual immorality, just to to quickly just like some summar summarize that, um what did you think about his, what was that analogy that he used?
Danny Price: Basically, if you're having sex outside of marriage, you're you're having sex with somebody else's husband or someone else's wife. Did you hear that? Did he say that in the sermon that you listened to online?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: What did you think about that?
shane: Yeah. I, I actually, i loved it. I thought it was, you know, that where we, if we believe that God has is sovereign and he knows, you know, ah all things and, you know, that, ah you know, that who is going to get married and all that kind of stuff, then we, you know,
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: And they they're not your they're not your spouse. And I love what he said about now you live up there. You live up there in their mind, you know. um And, you know, there's just so many. well The funny thing is, it's it for me, is when people deny all this, but and then even the studies that are not Christian-based show...
shane: You know, people who live promiscuous promiscuous lives have have actually usually worse sex lives. um They have more sexual baggage, all you know, all that stuff, but people just don't want to buy it.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's, it's constraining.
shane: It's almost like God understands us. It's weird.
Danny Price: It is, it is crazy how that works. Yeah. I thought that was actually really good. It was interesting. I'd never thought about it that way before. I mean, I knew like if you were, you know, it's it's logical, it makes sense, but I'd never heard anyone say that before. It was interesting.
Danny Price: I think the hard part would be too, is if, um, like you're with a girlfriend or boyfriend, um like you know when you're younger or something, you're like, well, I'm going to marry them eventually, or maybe they're engaged.
Danny Price: I've had a lot of people ask me about that recently, um surprisingly. It's like, is it OK if you're engaged to have sex before marriage? And it's like, like you're pretty much there, you're committed, and then you you just you want to jump the gun a little bit.
Danny Price: And I'm like, oh, man, those are hard questions to answer. know, and that's what
shane: And in my mind, to me, it's not that hard. Go get married.
Danny Price: I know and that's what and that's what i say
shane: Quit worrying about all the other people. Pull your four parents into a room and get married. it it To me, no.
Danny Price: because Because why wait?
shane: I actually, I don't. Yeah. I mean, if you know you're getting married.
Danny Price: I guess what I mean... i don't mean it's a hard question. I know where I stand, but it's a hard question to try to communicate to somebody because they're like, well, what's the reason?
shane: Oh, yeah. No, I know you know what you're saying. No, I...
Danny Price: what's the reason
shane: hey
Danny Price: ah I get it.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: Anyways, cool. Question number five that I had. How do we walk as children of light? And then I just put kind of in quotations. It seems like we're supposed to bear good fruit and expose darkness, but...
Danny Price: realistically, what is that what does that mean? Because again, I'm trying to bring this to practicality. not like I don't want to over-practicalize all the like the scripture, I guess, but what is that what is how do we do that? How do we walk as children of light?
shane: You know, Jesus is the light, right? He's the light of the world. um And so I've always, the way I, the visual I have of that is, you know, you have darkness and you light and Jesus being the light.
shane: And that we should be always walking towards the light, right? We should always be getting closer to the light, living in that, living in his light, right? in heaven And have, when we get to heaven someday, we're going to fully be enveloped in his light.
Danny Price: Uh-huh.
shane: Right now, there's still shadows. There's still, you know, um reflections, those that, you know, right? but If you're just trying to put a visual to it, but
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: but we should always be pointing and walking in that direction um and not moving towards darkness. And that's, that's the visual I have for, for my life in it.
shane: um You know, is, is this me? And for me, it's, it's, it actually helps me like, even in my thoughts, you know, like if I'm kind of going down a thought path of, you know, what I want to do to that person who cut me off or when I, you know, or, you know, anger or sexual immoral thought, that kind of thing.
Danny Price: Yeah. yeah
shane: It's like, hey, is this, is this following the light or am I walking towards darkness right now?
Danny Price: yeah
shane: So I don't know if that's kind of what you were looking for, but that's the visual I have.
Danny Price: Yeah, a little bit. I guess like when it comes to like the walking
Danny Price: with exposing thoughts, let's but but let's go there for a second. What does that mean? I'm going to read it just verbatim. So here we go. um
shane: Study in verse 7........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Danny Price: Yeah. for sorry Well, yeah, I'll start in verse seven. Therefore, do not become partners with them for at one time you were in darkness, but now you are in light, in the light of the Lord. Walk as children of light, and for the fruit of the light is found in all that is good and right and true.
Danny Price: And try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord, take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them, for it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything exposed but is exposed by the light, it becomes visible.
Danny Price: For anything that has has become visible is light. And then it continues. um Is that talking about exposing, like an in your in your mind, in your thoughts, is it talking about other people?
shane: Oh, or exposing other people or that thing. Okay.
Danny Price: Yeah, I don't i don't understand what quite what that means, because also we're not like the whole, you know, like, I think we are, as Christians, called to judge to a certain degree, but not judge.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Judge and discern, I think, are different than put judgment on um in certain in certain ways. I'm not saying that Christians aren't called to judge in certain capacities. What does that mean to expose...
Danny Price: Is that, do we walk around going to everyone's life and going, oh, let's let's expose your sin.
shane: Yeah, I think i actually, they're going
Danny Price: let's Let's get that out there.
shane: You know, I like I once again, i liked what Dave said about that. um You know that, you know, he he talked about how in his the earlier years, he maybe thought of it as like pointing the finger and like, oh, exposing people's sin versus walking alongside people.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And, and asking them, Hey, is this, are you, is this, are you moving towards a light in this, or is this a darkness in your life? You know, cause I think a lot of times people don't maybe even see it.
shane: So when it comes to other people, ah do think that we are supposed to expose it. However, I don't think we should be on witch hunts. There's a difference when we're going after certain people, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: you know, and it should be out of love. It should be out of love. Cause going back to what he said, imitators of God walk in love. Are you really doing out of love when it's not even someone you you've ever shown you care about?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You've ever shown you, you know, um, you know, have any kind of relationship with like that. So, but so, yeah, I do think when it comes to other people, if it's people that we do love and we care about and we're having those kinds conversations with them, we should be open and willing to do that.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And I don't, and I, and I don't think that's, that's not us judging. That's us going off of scripture and exposing something in someone's life by, with scripture.
shane: Yeah. you know, and letting them then let the Holy Spirit work in them. But I don't, I don't think that's judging when, you know, judging is when you decide that, oh, this person is never going to repent or this person, you, you decided in your heart that that person is a bad person.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: i mean, not right. Okay. We're all bad people, but but you know, deal however you want, but
Danny Price: Yeah, sure. I get it.
shane: but that that person is an unrepentant or bad person or isn't going to repent and you just hold something in your heart towards them, that's judging. But me seeing something in your life that I know you are someone who wants to move towards the light and I see this as, hey, Danny, this, I i just at least am discerning that this is moving you towards darkness
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: That's not judging. That's me. no Now, if you promise me you're going to pray about that and I see you in your life seeking to um emulate and imitate God, then there might be some things I do need to kind of go, okay, well, you know, obviously if the Spirit's not convicting him on that, maybe that's not the case. But but like say it was...
shane: and no In no way that you, I know, you know I know this is not your thing, but but let's just say you did have, um let's let's just say you were taking money from something like camp money and and you were, but you know, like, hey, once a month, I just, you know, I just go out to a nice dinner.
Danny Price: yeah
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Yep.
shane: And I treat myself, you know, and, and I'm like, well, does, does Brian know about it?
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: you put it in the books? But well you're like, no, what's not that big, you know, but one, I point that out and you don't at all change it. Well, then that's different because I can point to scripture and go, Danny, come on, man.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: You know?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But yeah, but But if if maybe you're just not seeing it a certain way, and you know I think it's it's important to point that out to you so you don't keep walking towards darkness.
shane: right if you're Otherwise, you just keep walking towards darkness, and and it becomes bigger and bigger and bigger in your life, but you're supposed to be exposed.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Now, also personally, right when the Holy Spirit does convict you of something,
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: I think we got, that means like, man, right away, we need to, we need to turn that over to God. Keep, quit hiding it in the shadows and turn it over to God because otherwise, if you harden yourself to the Holy Spirit in that conviction, you're just going to grow harder and eventually turn it all over away from him.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. No, you can get completely just seared. Is that what you're talking about? Like where you're not listening or what?
shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: your hol Yep.
Danny Price: That
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: was a good answer. um Yeah, i think that's a tough... There's a lot of complexity to that, I think, and in a good way, not like bad complexity, but how you approach somebody, how you do that.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: If you're looking to be a, like you said, like a witch hunter, I think of like the situation, the situation in like, um what's that movie? ah like can I can't think of it. Monty Python and the Holy Grail where they have the witch in there.
Danny Price: Everyone's out to get somebody because, you know, for no reason I'm,
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: If haven't seen that movie, that's not us endorsing it. That's just me saying it's a serious part of culture. You might, there's some, actually some great lines of that movie.
shane: It's a deep theological movie.
shane: It's good.
Danny Price: I didn't elect the King.
shane: Good
Danny Price: There's so many, so many funny parts of that movie, but I'm not, I'm not recommending it.
shane: night.
Danny Price: I'm just saying that's, it's called classic.
shane: We should probably quit talking about it
Danny Price: um
shane: hot
Danny Price: Question number six that I had, what are your thoughts on verse 18? Let me read it really quick. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit. um Does drunk...
shane: then. I think it means we should not get drunk.
Danny Price: So yeah, does drunk not mean to drink? I know some Christians would take things that way. What should our perspective on alcohol on alcohol be?
shane: yeah
Danny Price: I'd love a chance to...
shane: i think you i think you need to Yeah, I think you need to follow your conscience and follow the whole conviction the Holy Spirit on that. um I definitely think this is a weaker brother situation. it's a um um It's a situation that we have we have so many varying...
shane: um experiences with, um, you know, i was just with someone who they've cut alcohol out completely.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: um and the main reason was because they just felt like when they drank, they, they more often than not struggled with moving towards drunkenness.
shane: Um, and then, you know, and even in that had in their drunkenness had other sinful behavior.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: So, um, So, you know, i ah you know, so super proud of someone who just says, hey, I feel like this is causing me to stumble. So I'm going cut it out of my life.
shane: And, um you know, and if I feel like if you drink and, you know, if you.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: drink and you find yourself more often than not, or even, you know, like, yeah, one out of 10 times I'm, I get drunk, you know, you probably, probably shouldn't do it, you know?
Danny Price: Yeah. Nope.
shane: Um, and you know, I, i it's, it's a sin to drink to drunkenness.
Danny Price: That's fair.
shane: And so the, you know, I grew up in a family where my, my grandfather just was like, you know what, if you never drink, you don't got worry about being drunk. You know, he didn't, he didn't judge other people for it, but he was just like, he made that decision never to drink.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Cause he was like, if I drink, I may struggle with drunkenness, you know? And he, was he was in world war two and he saw all these guys do lot of dumb things when they were young.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Geez. Yeah.
shane: And, you know, he just made the decision not to drink. um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But I don't think we can judge people who do choose to drink.
Danny Price: No, yeah. And full disclosure, like I'll enjoy a drink every once in a while. um Just so everyone knows where I stand.
shane: Do you?
Danny Price: ah I do.
shane: I'm kidding.
Danny Price: um um off But again, it's interesting. I guess, here, I'm going to pretend like I love what you do and you preach. You're like, okay, this is Shane.
Danny Price: like This is Danny. This is not... I'm pulling biblical principles.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: This is... I guess I'm going to talk about this. I find myself... with a couple of rules that I think have been good for me when it comes to drinking. The first is i don't drink alone, like by myself.
Danny Price: um I drink within the context of community with other people. And I enjoy it almost like kind of if you think about like in Jewish tradition, like feasting, like when you're having food, i like to send publicly with as many people around as possible.
shane: Do you like to sin publicly? I'm just kidding. yeah Sorry.
Danny Price: No, no, that's fine.
shane: I'm confusing the issue with my...
Danny Price: No, you're good. um But I think if you find yourself in that position where it's like you're drinking by yourself, I think that's where things can start to go go wrong, where you find yourself needing needing to drink. But then also, like you said, like there's lots of people in my life friends, family members that don't drink. And it's like, I don't feel like I need to drink around them or I want to drink around them because it's like, oh, they just don't enjoy that. Like that's not, that's, and I don't think that that's a bad thing. And I think you have to be aware with the circles that you're with. I think sometimes christian people with Christian liberties get really excited to show those liberties to other people.
Danny Price: When in reality, what you're doing is you're offending them and you're hurting them.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So let's say you're just out of the Latter-day Saint church and you traditionally never drunk before. I'm not saying being drunk. I'm saying drunk, like drinking alcohol before. I'm not going to approach you and invite you over to my house and say, hey, I'd love to have with like have time with you. And then just pull out the bottle of wine and be like, hey, do you want some? like i That's a very touchy subject for them because they're still trying to figure out, like, is that something that is appropriate?
shane: yeah
Danny Price: So I think that's top of your mind is don't drink when you're alone. Drink in the right context. Drink with the right purpose. Don't drink because you're like, I just want to get you know hammered. like Drink because, like, hey, i'd like i didn't i enjoyed it I would enjoy a drink with my meal or whatever.
Danny Price: Drink for the right reasons or around the fire whatever. um And then don't drink.
shane: Well, and also don't, I would say don't drink because you feel like you need a drink. Like if you get, you know, like I have, what I have a friend who,
Danny Price: Yes, that's another great point.
shane: You know, he he just, he didn't even really drink hard alcohol. He only drank beer, but he got to a point where he was like, you know what? I'm just going to, I'm gonna limit and not, um you know, for a while he didn't drink at all. He took like two years. We didn't drink at all. And then when he did go back, it was only when he went somewhere with some people that were having a drink and he'd have a beer, maybe two beers because he just noticed he would feel like he'd need, like he on his way home from work,
shane: He was looking forward to going home and cracking a couple of beers.
Danny Price: And having a beer. Yeah.
shane: Yeah. And um so, you know, I would say you know, when you're relying on something, that's that's probably it's a sin.
Danny Price: that's a great That's a great point. That's a great point.
shane: You know, you're not relying on God, you're relying on that.
Danny Price: Yeah. If your natural stress response is to go to alcohol, then that's you need you need you probably have some internal um work to do on that. um There was one other thing I was going to say about that.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That was, I can't remember. Oh, just health wise. I want to point this out. It's interesting. I think, I don't think anyone can, has really stood on the fact that drinking is good for you, but it's interesting to see there's been a giant culture backswing that I've noticed, at least in my friends and a lot of the people, Christian and non-Christian of how people are drinking less because of like sleep reasons and all kinds of stuff.
shane: Thank you.
Danny Price: Um, you just don't you know If you've drank before, you just know that you don't feel good a lot of times the day after. um In moderation, i'll think it matters a whole lot, but in excess, like drunkenness, it's interesting how people are starting to like scientifically put a lot of these pieces together. Like, hey, if you're living drunk and you're drinking to the point of drunkenness often, like it's really hurting you in your brain and all these situations. It's interesting how like God, again, like so from a scientific perspective, like
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: He's like, hey, this is probably not the best thing for you um because I say so because this is like my degree, but it's interesting how that lines up with science and how people are like, hey, actually, because I think for a while there was tre like a big push of like, hey, it's not that bad for you.
shane: Yeah. yeah
Danny Price: It's okay. And then now it's like, oh, wow. Yeah, it's it'll screw you up.
shane: Well, yeah, the wine drinkers love, wine drinkers love to be like, oh, it's actually, i' it makes me healthier.
Danny Price: if
shane: I'm like, okay, yeah, maybe if you had half a glass of wine every every other day, i don't know, but...
Danny Price: Antioxidants.
Danny Price: ah Yeah, no, and I don't even know with wine. I mean, Yeah, there's there's conflicting reports coming out.
shane: Yeah, there's a comedian, Tom Papa, who talks about, he's like, you know, like, we have to understand how bad this stuff is. ah It's the only thing you could literally put in a cupboard on a shelf and leave there for 25 years.
Danny Price: And still drink.
shane: And it's, yeah, so you're literally just pouring poison in your body, so.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: No, it's accurate. Um, do you guys have any more questions about that? Reach out to Shane or, or I guess me too. Um, Shane's a great resource for that, but if you're like trying to deconstruct some of your, i mean, if you're out of the LDS church or maybe you're just like, I've struggled with alcohol. Is it something that I need? I just need to get over.
Danny Price: Um, I don't know that any of those questions surrounding that, I think she'd be a good resource to go to. If you're listening to any of this stuff and it's causing you a little bit of discomfort or you're confused about things.
Danny Price: Um, we, we have made a lot of jokes. We talked about it, but for a lot of people, this is a serious thing. I mean, being an alcoholic and having an addiction.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So I, but in no way are we trying to make light of that stuff or say that, Hey, just drinking is fine.
shane: No.
Danny Price: Even if you're an alcoholic, um, just want to point that out. So anyways, last question that I had, um,
shane: Yeah, absolutely.
Danny Price: How do we submit to one another? It says that at the very end of this passage, talking about, number let's see here, verse 20, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father and name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Danny Price: um The reason I ask that is because, you know, previous podcast we talked about submission and how the husband and wife relationship is not a mutual submission. It's service from the husband and laying his life down and then it's submission from the wife.
Danny Price: um What is the mutual submission referring to? Is it Brothers among brother. Like, how does that work?
shane: Yeah, um you know, I think all of this comes after this huge, that verse, chapter 5, verse 21, submitting to one another out of reference for Christ.
shane: It comes after pretty much the end of this massive argument, not argument, like him him giving the argument, giving the point,
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: that we are one in Christ and that we should live as such, right?
Danny Price: Right.
shane: And then, you know, in the rest of chapter five and six, he's going to give some details about what that looks like in God structured relationships. um Well, not even just God structured, but also human relationships.
shane: But, and then he's going to kind of close with this, you know, Hey, to live this way, we need to put on the full armor God. So he's going to, that's where we're at in this book, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: This letter.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So he ends this, he's ending this whole argument before he kind of gets into these closing thoughts with, this idea of submitting to one another. And, you know, i think i I kind of hit on it a couple weeks ago that the moment
shane: you have an attitude of pride that says, I'm not, I'm going to make, I want my will to happen versus another person's will. And you're willing to do things to make that happen.
shane: There's no way to have unity. So even you and i right? i mean, well, it could be, ah art you some people could argue that a relationship would be that you should submit because I'm your elder and I'm your wife's husband, and but two peers, right?
Danny Price: Well, yeah, and I would. Yeah. but Yeah.
shane: Two peers. The only way to have unity is if both of those people are coming into that with a mindset of like, hey, not,
shane: my will be done, but God's will be done. And I'm assuming you have that attitude as well. And so when we have a place where we're not um' lining up eye to eye, we're both going to be willing two to see that maybe this is not what God wants. It's what I want. And I'm going to have an attitude of humility.
shane: And in doing that, we can reach unity. um So that, I mean, I would say is kind of the big, broad picture of what that looks like.
Danny Price: You see the bigger picture.
shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah. the bigger picture yeah
shane: Yeah. um But, you know, on the dayto day to day, really think it means of just putting the needs of other people before yours.
Danny Price: Yeah. And being open, I would say, and being open to them too. If they say something to you, like you're you're willing. I don't think this means that if someone says to you but the most random thing, like i'm trying to think of an example, Hey, you drink too much, for example.
Danny Price: and you were to take that, I think you, I think I'm not saying necessarily that whatever they, whatever they're saying is accurate, but when you submit to somebody else to that degree, you're like, I'll, let me examine that. Like, let me look at that in my life and see, um,
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: you're, you, you take other people's words seriously and you're open to their critiques or criticisms of your life or something that you might be struggling with. You're not just like, no, I don't believe that. Like you actually take it seriously.
Danny Price: I'm not saying that what they say is always necessarily accurate because you might examine that in your life and get other people's opinions and go, you know what?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: No, I think I'm okay. but For the example, they had the drinking thing, or maybe it's a, hey, I think you're really you're really prideful or you talk too much or whatever it you know whatever it is, but you're you're willing to at least examine that and you take what they say seriously.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: ah Cool.
shane: Yeah. um
Danny Price: Anything else with that that you wanted to mention?
shane: No, I just do think it is, a you know, i think it's kind of interesting to look at. That's how he ends that whole point, like really chapter one through most of chapter five.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And it ends it with that. Like, like, look, this is what it comes down to almost. So.
Danny Price: Hmm. That's good. Cool. Well, that's all that I had for the questions. I don't have anything else really to say. Anything else you wanted to mention from the sermon or anything else that was like burning a hole in your mind?
shane: No, no. Just next week, we're dealing with ah parents, um ah children obeying your parents and parents um not exasperating your kids.
shane: So if you're a parent or thinking of being a parent or know a parent, or you have parents.
Danny Price: Yeah, fun.
Danny Price: Or you have parents.
Danny Price: Sorry, everybody. No, it'll be good. I'm excited about that. That'll be interesting. um Cool. Well, again, thanks thanks for listening, guys. If you've been with us for this whole time, i really appreciate it If you guys could, i always say this, but share this with your friends. Send this out to people, um especially if you're going to Mountain View or if you're in this Wasatch back area and you think this would be beneficial for them.
Danny Price: um And then again, also just to increase our, we're just, I'm throwing darts at a dartboard that, you know, again, randomly. So if you have questions, please send them to us so that we can actually kind of pinpoint on what you guys are actually, you know, would enjoy listening to and hearing. And I know some of you already done that. So thank you for that.
Danny Price: Don't, don't feel shy.
shane: and rate And rate the, and and give ah give us a five star.
Danny Price: Don't feel good. Oh yeah.
shane: it help It helps put it up there.
Danny Price: give us the five star on Yelp. No, on a, on a Apple podcasts and Spotify, you can rate us. um That would go a long ways.
shane: Or send us why you would not give us a five star so we can try to make it better.
Danny Price: Yeah. Tell us a respect, respectful critiques of how we're failing. um Yeah. We're enjoying this. This is, this has been great. We're 21 episodes in and again, rebranding, it's going to start, you know, coming through and just album artwork and,
Danny Price: all that stuff. I think I'm going to actually have to read you the the intro as well, but it's going to be table talk discussions. um So if you search for us on Spotify, Apple, all that stuff, you have to search table talk discussions. The reason we're not doing table talk, just table talk. I wanted to do that. It's been taken.
Danny Price: There's like four or five other podcasts that are much bigger than ours that are already labeled table talk. i don't know what the copyright is with that or,
shane: Wait, you mean they have more than nine listeners?
Danny Price: Yeah, I know. More than three listeners, and which is not fun, hard.
shane: I'm just kidding. I don't know how many listeners we have.
Danny Price: Anyways. Awesome, guys. Appreciate it. We'll catch you guys next week. Bye.
shane: Bye.
