Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Bisexual Married Men: André
5.5k Plays1 year ago
Welcome to this special series on bisexual men who are married to women! This week I interviewed André T. Short, one of the subjects in my new oral history book, “Bisexual Married Men: Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity” – out November 30 and currently available to pre-order. André’s story is unique and layered, but it also features common threads that many Bi+ men have experienced – though we often feel like we’re alone.
There are 15 minutes of bonus content with André exclusively on Patreon, as well as FULL LENGTH VIDEO of this entire interview, so you can see us as well as hear us! Subscribe below – and thanks for your support! www.Patreon.com/RobertBrooksCohen
Stay tuned for more interviews with Bi+ married men, weekly throughout November and December! Thanks for listening and supporting my work.
Preorder “Bisexual Married Men”: https://www.routledge.com/Bisexual-Married-Men-Stories-of-Relationships-Acceptance-and-Authenticity/Cohen/p/book/9781032473260
Zencastr Offer: Use my special link https://zen.ai/1XCrFVbuRtL8iY87izFTPwto receive an exclusive 20% discount on your first month of any paid plan.
Bunny Shoppe Offer: Use my special link https://zen.ai/63nDqXXSjVnoNkG9-hgQ-A to save 20% off your order at bunnyshoppe.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Two Bye Guys' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
🎵
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Two Bye Guys, here with another interview from a married bye guy from my book, Bisexual Married Men. It's about bi men who are married to women, appropriately titled. And I'm very excited to be here today with one of my fascinating interviewees. He has a lovely story in the book. I can't wait for you all to read it. And we're going to talk about it a little bit today.
Choosing the Pseudonym 'Kaiko'
00:00:37
Speaker
Welcome to Two Bye Guys, Andre T. Short. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So good to see you again. You too. And for you to be here. So in the book, your name is Kaiko. Is that right? Yes, Kaiko. Or Kaiko, by the way. You don't have to do the x-ray. Oh.
00:00:56
Speaker
Oh, okay. I was doing that in my head as I read it. Okay. So actually, let's start there because in other cases, I chose people's names because they didn't care. And what I would do is I would go to their birth year and look up common names, find their name, and then pick a name near there
00:01:19
Speaker
uh in popularity so that you know if you had a common name you'd stick with a common name and and not but I also offered people you know you can pick your pseudonym and you and we sort of collaborated on this one can you tell me how we came up with Kaiko? Sure uh I just felt like no offense Troy just felt a little bland
00:01:40
Speaker
because I find my name to be a little interesting. And most people, when I tell people, they're like, what's your name? And I say, Andre, they usually go, oh. It's like, oh, that's nice. That's not very common. I mean, if I were in France, it would be super common, but it's not usually common where I tend to find myself.
Participating in the Book Project: Motivation and Growth
00:02:00
Speaker
So I just wanted something a little richer and something a little bit more that would clue in that I'm not a white man.
00:02:10
Speaker
So Kaiko's very Hawaiian. Um, I'm Hawaiian myself. So I thought, you know, that let's, let's go with that.
00:02:17
Speaker
I love it. I don't wish, but I like that you took me up on the option to choose your own pseudonym. Let me also start here. I'm asking everyone this, before we get into your actual story, why did you decide to participate in this project? I think you were in the second round of interviews in 2022, so I put out this call and you answered and
00:02:45
Speaker
Why did you choose to reach out and participate? I think. I didn't think that it would necessarily end up happening, but I thought, you know what, you might as well put put your best foot forward and see what happens. I think I am always becoming more and more comfortable in who I am. And part of that is my bisexuality. And so I thought.
00:03:10
Speaker
it would it would be something that would be helpful for me to just keep sitting in that space to be able to process it and to also be able to pay it forward a little bit because I started listening to two by guys when it initially came out because I was soups in the closet and I
00:03:32
Speaker
I didn't have the language to even describe how I felt, what I was thinking, and it really just, it helped me a lot. And I thought, you know, if we can also make room for other people to feel like they're seen and heard and give them maybe some more stories and language around how they might be feeling, then that would be something to be a part of.
Discovering Bisexuality
00:03:56
Speaker
I love it. And I love your young millennial slang. Oh, God. I mean, you're not that much younger than me, but I think you are the youngest person I interviewed for the book because it's married people. Right.
00:04:13
Speaker
We're not going to get them too young, especially by guys, but I love it. Do you identify as a millennial? I'm very much so. I'm too many years away from Gen Z to be even close. Cool. Then we're in the same generation. That makes me feel not too old. I do what I can.
00:04:37
Speaker
Okay, well, I want to come back to how the project helped you process and think through some of this stuff, but let's get sort of the overview of your story. There's a lot more in the book, obviously, but tell me a little bit about like, so you were listening to the podcast and you were not out. What did you know before then?
Life Changes and Personal Realizations
00:05:00
Speaker
When did you sort of become somewhat aware and what was the journey toward coming out?
00:05:07
Speaker
That's a good question. I think I was always aware. I always thought everybody was hot, which is actually how I describe my bisexuality is I like everybody and I can see the best in everybody. So I didn't think that it was an option though to like both. I thought you could only like one.
00:05:27
Speaker
Especially growing up in the church and having gone through most of my education in Christian school, it was all very... It was loaded. You couldn't be anything but straight. And I thought, well, this is an option that I do feel, so why don't we just go with that one?
00:05:47
Speaker
not realizing that both is also a valid option. So I think it's always been there, but I was just approaching 30. My wife and I had left Italy. I did my master's in Italy in piano performance in case anybody's curious. And we came to the UK so I could do a PhD. And by this point, we left the church.
00:06:12
Speaker
We had too many just bad experiences with people who we thought that we were supposed to be able to trust, like our pastor, for example, who married us, who was actually sleeping with other married women at the time that he married us. And so it was just it just felt like the world was like
00:06:33
Speaker
crashing down on us. And I just thought, okay, things aren't what I think they are.
Coming Out to His Wife
00:06:40
Speaker
I'm starting to be able to sit in my own thoughts, especially with lockdown. Nothing else was going in except for just so much time staring at the same four walls. And I just really had to face it. I didn't really have anything else to do, anywhere else to go, anything else to think about.
00:06:57
Speaker
And then I found your podcast and it just helped me form language around what I was feeling. Wow. Cool. A pandemic coming out story I think is semi-common because people were just like alone with their thoughts and thinking about how do I want to live when we come out of this? And I love that. Absolutely.
00:07:21
Speaker
I also like your, it's sort of a new good definition of bisexuality. Like we have Robin Oaks, I call myself bisexual because I see the capacity of being attracted to more than much blah, blah, blah. Much more eloquence. I think yours is pretty simple. Yours may be a little more eloquent, but yours is nice and simple and beautiful. I like everybody and see the best in everybody.
00:07:43
Speaker
I call myself bisexual because I think you should coin that. Okay, so tell me a little more then so you didn't realize till close to 30. I remember that's where your story in the book starts with like, I don't want to not address this before 30, which is exactly exactly what happened to me a few years earlier. Tell me about how you met your wife and how your relationship started and developed.
00:08:10
Speaker
you know, amidst that awareness and coming out later. Sure. Well, we were very young when we got married because church, uh, we, you know, you couldn't have sex, so you basically have to get married so you can do that.
00:08:26
Speaker
And we were 23 when we got married, which is just looking back, it's just so painfully young. I feel like we were confident in who we were, but didn't necessarily, you know, when you know, you only know what you know, but you can't receive something because you're just not there yet. So people would say all the time, like,
00:08:44
Speaker
Oh, you're so young. Don't you want to wait? You're gonna find out who you are later. And I was like, Yeah, goodbye. And we got married anyway. And it's all very true. But I think because we were able to embrace
00:09:02
Speaker
a growth mindset and that we could support each other even in the changes because I think compatibility is a bit of a myth. I think you always have to work at that. And so I remember at one point
00:09:15
Speaker
she said, oh, bisexuality, that's just like when you can't pick a side or whatever. And so that kind of shut down in me anything of wanting to potentially come out. But after going through years of thinking through all of the church trauma and just gaining a little more life experience, I thought, well, maybe she's in a different place with this now. So and I have the language to actually say how I'm feeling.
00:09:44
Speaker
So I was actually, she was the first person I told, I think it was actually 29 when I told her, but it was like gearing up to be 30 so that I could be, you know, out and out and 30 for 30 and thriving or whatever it is.
Impact of Coming Out on Marriage
00:10:00
Speaker
And she took it really well. And I was a little surprised, but very happy that it, that it went well.
00:10:09
Speaker
Huh. Can you tell me more about how it went? Oh, sure. So her parents were here and, uh, we were, so we were actually like, it was national coming out day, which I didn't know. It just happened at the time, which was like serendipitous. And we were just like laying in bed and we were chatting because I like fucking love me some pillow talk and just like give it to me. So, uh, we were at pillow talking and I was just like,
00:10:37
Speaker
I have to do this. I have to do this. And no matter how it goes, I need to do this for me because it is for me. And it's something that I feel like I can invite people into. And it's it's really not for them. Like it's not for you, boo. But even though I love my wife, it's it's mine. And I wanted to share it. And so I did, of course, very sheepishly, like under the covers. I think I'm bisexual.
00:11:01
Speaker
And she was like, oh my gosh, that's so great. Like, thank you for sharing that with me. And, you know, it was a conversation starter.
00:11:11
Speaker
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, and kudos to your wife for that response and that open-mindedness of like, okay, I'm glad you're sharing this and let's talk about it. I don't want to harp on it, but it's just such a difference from where you started and all the things you were brought up within that church.
00:11:35
Speaker
Was it really scary until that moment? And what was it like before versus after? Yeah, in terms of fear. I think I was still a little bit afraid after I told her because you have to wake up in the morning and see that person who just said that thing to you. But her reaction was very real, so I was pleased.
00:11:59
Speaker
I think I had just spent so much time processing it because, um, I talk about this a little bit in the, well, I guess in the book, but it was just, just the interview that we, that you did the last time we talked. Yeah. And, um, it was actually the census. So I, yeah, I, I filled out the census differently than how I normally would just to see like, if my computer would explode, if I, you know, typed in bisexual and it was fine.
00:12:28
Speaker
Nothing happened. And I sent that shit
Monogamy and Bisexuality
00:12:30
Speaker
to the government. So now they know. And I was just like, okay, that was January. So then, you know, all the way to October to National Coming Out Day, listening to the podcast.
00:12:41
Speaker
freaking out a little bit if I might also maybe be pansexual but then landed on bi because that felt more appropriate. And yeah, I think I just had a lot of time to sit with myself and think so that I felt, you know what, saying this out loud, I can be confident that I'm actually sharing who I am and not
00:13:01
Speaker
you know, some half-baked idea, but that's also a little bit of my perfectionism because I tend to overthink most things, but I was very sure when I said it, even if I was nervous to say it.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's great. And I'm glad the podcast was helpful in that processing. I think you're not the only bi person who tends to overthink things. I don't know if it's necessarily, but it certainly could be related. It could be.
00:13:32
Speaker
And that's the secret way that they buy a racist is if you put that you're bisexual in the census, your computer explodes. So I'm glad you made it through. Okay. Let's not tell that to the UK government at this point. So I think our interview was about a year ago only, so it hasn't been that much time. But let me ask you this.
00:13:56
Speaker
What's changed in your relationship since coming out? And then also, if anything's changed in the last year, how has your relationship evolved?
00:14:11
Speaker
I feel like I'm more of myself because I am. So I remember having this discussion with a friend and she was like, well, yeah, you want the person who you're with to know all of you. Like, you know, she said, I've told my husband things that
00:14:29
Speaker
I'm not proud of, but I just wanted him to know who I am. And even if that person is different, it's just you can connect on a different level. And I didn't realize it, but I think that was also part of me wanting to share with my wife
00:14:47
Speaker
that I am bisexual is just so that we can actually be connecting with each other and not ideas of each other. That makes any sense? Totally. And so I feel like when we are together, we're really together because it's me who's present. It's not an idea of me. And also sex is better because it's freer. I'm not like competing with this weird idea of what it means to be like a man in the relationship.
00:15:14
Speaker
And I feel like we've talked about hard things. Saying I'm bi, it was really hard. And so now it's okay to...
00:15:25
Speaker
just ask for what I want and be comfortable with what I want because I'm more comfortable with who I am. It's been great. It's been great. Awesome. Awesome. It sounds like so many things I have said to people also. I think we had a similar evolution once we came out, but I also think it makes so much sense that when you
00:15:48
Speaker
hid this thing for so long and then you finally say it and everything's okay, then it makes you comfortable with the other things that you thought you might be ashamed to talk about or especially sex and things you like and what you need. So that makes a lot of sense to me. So you married young, something I learned from the book is that
00:16:11
Speaker
bisexuality does not equal non-monogamy, and actually a majority of the people in the book are monogamous, but it is often something that comes up. Even those who remain monogamous often end up talking about it. Did you guys end up talking about it, and what were those conversations like if they existed?
00:16:32
Speaker
They definitely existed.
Bisexuality in London
00:16:34
Speaker
That was kind of one of the first topics to come up. And we are monogamous. I think it was more of just like, you know, I don't want to make it sound like it was...
00:16:50
Speaker
that dramatic, but sort of that idea of like, do you love me? You're not going to leave me for all these other people just because you're into all these other people. And it was like, well, no, because I've built a relationship with my wife and she's just been so supportive. And that's what I think really worth keeping and fighting for. So yes, I would, you know, have loved to done a lot more exploring. But, you know, this is this is where we are. And I'm really happy here. So
00:17:20
Speaker
It works. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, I think a lot of people sort of fear that conversation and it often comes up one way or another, but being bi is not the same as being non-monogamous necessarily. And just talking about that, you got to get comfortable talking through why and those things too.
00:17:48
Speaker
Promoting your podcast on social media can be challenging. I should know. I did it for many years, all by myself. You have to go through your interview and find the best clips. You have to add captions. You have to add artwork. You have to upload it to multiple different social media sites and monitor all of them. It's necessary to get your content out there, but it just takes a lot of time. That is why I love Zencaster's AI clipping tool. It has really changed the way that I post on social media.
00:18:15
Speaker
and made things much, much easier for me. It's easy to get started. Zancaster's AI clipping tool is designed to make your content creation process seamless, whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting out. Zancaster's platform is user-friendly and accessible. The clipping tool creates auto-captions so you can leave the heavy lifting to AI as it generates titles, descriptions, and complete closed captioning for your video clips, and you can autopilot your posts, effortlessly integrate and auto-post your viral video clips across top platforms like Facebook,
00:18:44
Speaker
Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube. Are you ready to revolutionize your content creation? Click on my referral link in the episode description or use my code 2BUYGUYS to receive an exclusive 20% discount on your first month of any paid plan. Don't miss out on this opportunity to elevate your content and engage your audience like never before with Zencast.
00:19:13
Speaker
I love sex toys. I have acquired quite a collection. I think they're a really fun way to try out new things and explore with whoever you want to explore. Other people, even just by yourself. If that sounds interesting to you, I think you will love bunnyshop.com. Bunny Shop is not your average adult store. Think of it as your very own adult shop thoughtfully curated by your fashionable bestie. They take their selections seriously, hand picking each item for its aesthetics, safety, and top notch quality.
00:19:41
Speaker
No matter where you are on your journey, whether you're a BDSM pro or completely new to the world of sex toys, Bunny Shop has got you covered. Their thoughtfully selected range includes toys, accessories, and wellness products to suit every desire and preference. And that's true, I've explored their website a little, they have a lot of interesting stuff
00:19:59
Speaker
So, let go of any shyness and embrace your self-love journey with confidence. Save 20% off your order today when you use code 2BUYGUYS, T-W-O-V-I-G-U-I-S. Visit Bunnyshop.com. That's B-U-N-N-Y-S-H-O-P-P-E.com. Spilled with two P's and an E at the end, because Bunnyshop is fancy.
00:20:26
Speaker
I want to ask you this because your story is unique in many ways. But one of the ways is that you don't live in America at the moment. You're in London, is that right? Yep. So tell me, where did you live until you moved to London? And then what's it like being a queer person there? Is there a bi scene? Have you found bi community? Or just what's the vibe over there? Is it different in any way?
00:20:56
Speaker
The vibes are good here. So I grew up outside of L.A. actually in the one of the world's saddest towns Lancaster. Don't go there. Save yourself. And I also grew up between there and Hawaii, which was a lot nicer. I spent a few years in Hawaii. Then I went to university in Colorado in Fort Collins at Colorado State.
00:21:18
Speaker
and then a master's in Perugia, Italy, and now a PhD in London. So a bit of a lot of things, a little bit everywhere. I don't really know what to compare it to because I wasn't out in any of those places. I wasn't seeking anything in any of those places. But I do find, I mean, being bisexual in London is like
00:21:44
Speaker
being a ham and cheese sandwich. There's just so much other more interesting, crazier things that this city has seen that I don't even think anybody's particularly bothered. It's easy and
00:22:02
Speaker
I mean, for the most part, I think there's still some people who don't really understand, but that's also not really my problem.
Continuous Coming Out and Acceptance
00:22:11
Speaker
So I'm not too worried about that. I think you can find people anywhere. In London, it's a great city to find people to connect with. So it's been great. Cool. And have you found by community or is that still something that is a struggle?
00:22:30
Speaker
I found queer community, but not necessarily specifically bi, although I do know it's out there. Um, but I, I have found that more just in my circles that I'm in normally, as opposed to like going out and seeking, um, uh, anything, uh, in particular, mostly just because of time, because part-time work, part-time PhD, self-funding, like it's not easy. So, um, you know, I have found really cool people though, uh, and my normal circles.
00:23:00
Speaker
Cool. And okay, so you said you came into your wife first, then when did you decide to come out more publicly and how did you do that? And then how has making those queer connections affected your life? That's a great question.
00:23:21
Speaker
It's a continuous process because you constantly have to be like, hi, I'm Andre. Oh, also I'm bisexual. And some people know what to do with that and other people don't know what to do with that. Again, not my problem, but I just think people should know because I want to know that the people in my life, uh, except me for me.
00:23:42
Speaker
Uh, it's, it is interesting though to have to continuously say it. Whereas if you're straight, you're just assumed to be, or you're, it's like a default, you know, like you're assumed to be straight until otherwise, or people just assume that I'm gay, which I just let them assume anyway, because I think it's kind of funny, but also I'm like, by the way, it's a little bit true. So, you know, it's yeah, it's, it's what it is. Um, yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker
It's been
Queer Connections and Self-Acceptance
00:24:12
Speaker
good. I feel like it's so nice to have, you know what the best thing is, I think, about having queer connections with people is that you can just acknowledge a little bit that
00:24:22
Speaker
Maybe we're all a little attracted to each other and we give each other really nice hugs. Straight hugs, fucking hate those. It's just like pat pat goodbye. And I'm just like, no, bitch, hug me, please. Like, I love you. I want to just hug you like a normal person, but it has to be like, dudes, don't hug like that, you know? So that's been really nice.
00:24:45
Speaker
I have to say. I totally agree. And I also have had that. What I actually kind of like about being a queer person in a straight passing marriage is if I'm in a gay space by myself, people will assume I'm gay. And then sometimes I'll just mention my wife and they'll be like, oh, get interested. And then they'll be like, does she know that you're
00:25:12
Speaker
And I'm like, uh-huh, yeah. I'm like, we're poly, we're bi. She knows I'm doing all this wherever I am. And they're fascinated by it. I like that reaction even if it's a little making an assumption. I'm subverting it in reverse of the normal way. It's good stuff.
00:25:35
Speaker
So you said that you didn't know would be helpful for you to participate in this project. I'm curious, how did it help you participating or what did you learn about yourself by doing the interview?
00:25:52
Speaker
I think it's the pointed questions, you know, because you have a very clear idea because you've been out for a while and you've been in buy spaces and you've been thinking about this thing for a while. And then I just come in like this baby by like, I don't know what I'm doing. So to have someone who's actually thought about this and who can ask those really important questions was just really helpful for me to think about things in a new way. And to have questions that no one would necessarily ask.
00:26:21
Speaker
Or I guess that straight people or even gay people wouldn't think to ask. So it was really interesting, actually, thinking back on it. What was the other question? There was something else in there. Yeah.
00:26:39
Speaker
No, like what did you learn about yourself?
Bravery and Authenticity
00:26:42
Speaker
That's what it was. OK, sorry, I forgot I'm here. But that that all makes sense. But keep going. I think I learned as I lose a headphone, I think I learned that I can be brave enough to be who I am. In front of other people.
00:27:01
Speaker
which sounds probably a little cheesy, but you know what? It's true. It's absolutely true. And I think it's just so important for people to feel like there's space for them and that they can just be who they are. So I think the experience helped me sit in that a little bit more.
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. I'm so glad that that happened for you and yeah, you can be. I mean, you can be brave enough to share this stuff and it's similar to your census and your computer didn't explode. It's like you kind of have to try it sometimes to know how you feel and then when you put yourself out there and it feels good and okay and nothing exploded, you keep moving forward.
00:27:51
Speaker
Also, this is a slight detour, but your first answer makes total sense to me because this isn't meant to be a plug, but I guess it will be. I'm in training to be a life coach with IPAC. It's a coaching training program because I've realized that a lot of what I've been doing is
00:28:13
Speaker
in that vein anyway. And what we learn about is coaching is basically about asking empowering questions and digging into things that people don't always have the awareness that they should dig into. But really,
00:28:30
Speaker
you had all the answers inside. I didn't give you any advice or tell you anything, especially because it was an interview. I literally just asked questions. But what you said makes total sense that you hadn't been through it and you hadn't necessarily thought about each of the things I asked you before and just reflecting on them and thinking about your life in a certain framework
00:28:56
Speaker
is useful and helpful and helps you kind of connect dots and figure out what your values really are. It's all there, but just being asked and being listened to is powerful. Yeah, absolutely. Also, I love that for you. That's so cool. That's cool. Yeah.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I want to continue this podcast and this work and buy stuff. And I want to continue my writing career and TV work and film work, like all of it's continuing. But I'm really into this coaching stuff. And it's going to be a nice sort of side gig for me. And I want to I like helping people through all this stuff. So so stay tuned on my website. I'll have some coaching stuff coming soon, but not yet.
00:29:44
Speaker
Will do. What is something that you wish you had realized or understood sooner in your life? Too many things. I don't know if we have time for all of that. Oh, man, that's a loaded one. I think I'm going to gather my thoughts. Oh, just so much. I guess starting with
00:30:12
Speaker
It's just okay to be you, like on a, just a basic level.
Perception of Gender and Diverse Experiences
00:30:16
Speaker
Um, in, in thinking about trans rights right now in particular, like it's, it should just be fine to be yourself, you know? And I wish that we didn't have to make people feel like that wasn't true.
00:30:39
Speaker
So I guess that would be the really the basis for everything. Like it's not, it's not bad to
00:30:48
Speaker
want to be with a woman and it's not bad to also want to be with a man or with however that anybody else identifies. Um, I, but you know, it's that thing that I was saying earlier, you can only know what you know at a certain time and sometimes you just can't receive things. So like even when people would explain to me, you know, that the,
00:31:13
Speaker
that the church was this and that, and I would just be like, no, it's great, it's fine. And don't get me wrong, I had some great experiences there, good community, and some of my best friends are still, were from the church, even though they've kind of, you know, all left in different capacities, which is telling. But I just wish that I would have been able to see a little bit outside of myself, I think.
00:31:41
Speaker
and my own experiences. So without getting into all the things that I would list, I feel like those are probably the two biggest ones that would have just led me to being a lot more open and a lot more comfortable with myself and with other people because I hate thinking about
00:32:02
Speaker
that old version of myself where I was so homophobic to myself and then also to other people. It's just rough to think about. I mean, I'm glad we're past that, but yeah, slightly uncomfortable because I wish I had known what I know now.
00:32:17
Speaker
right? I mean, don't we all? But yeah, we're very much stuck inside our own experience for a while. I mean, you broke out of it very young comparatively, but when you're in it, it's tough to see it from outside. Actually, let me ask you, because it came up, how has coming out affected your perception of gender and the gender spectrum? If it has.
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think it has. Well, because I had to think about that because I had that moment where I was like, what is that actress on? Oh, the cat is coming down maybe to visit. OK, she's very cute if she does. What was I watching? Oh, it was Sense 8.
00:33:05
Speaker
And I can't remember the actress's name, but there's a trans actress in in the series. And I was like, wait, am I pansexual? Like, what does that mean if I'm attracted to this gender or that gender? And so I just kind of had to confront it more than I normally would have in my typical binary thinking of, you know, male or female. So I think it just
00:33:32
Speaker
It just helped me realize that there's so many experiences out there and there's so many different expressions of humanity. And I think of how we experience ultimately how we experience joy. I think there's just so many different expressions of joy and I think gender can definitely fall into that.
Pandemic Challenges and Couples Therapy
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, beautiful. Let me ask you this. Oh, cute. Do you want to introduce your cat since we're on video today?
00:33:59
Speaker
Um, this is Chanel. We call her boob. She's super cute. This is Penelope. Hello. She's so cute. Okay. You can go back to eating your kibbles now. Although I should move her out of the frame. Maybe that's fine. Whatever. She can, she can be part of it.
00:34:21
Speaker
We love dogs and cats on this show. Amazing. Since we moved to video interviews, there's a long history of dogs and cats invading the interview. That's what they do best. Yes, indeed. What's something you're still struggling with in this space or in relationships? What's still a challenge? I don't know that there is anything super pressing
00:34:50
Speaker
Yeah, if anything, if there's not, that's cool. I guess it would be great to find other. It would be great to find some more by community, I think. But I feel like that will come when I'm not so like.
00:35:06
Speaker
Here and there with every all the commitments that I that I currently have but that that's just not really a struggle though that's just something that would be nice although I say that and then I bet when I when I end up actually making friends with bisexual people I'll be like
00:35:22
Speaker
this is what I needed my whole life. So I'm sure that's going to happen. But yeah, yeah, for now, that's kind of how I'm feeling. Cool. And when stuff has come up with with your wife, that is challenging. How do you guys how did you guys learn to get through it? Oh, God. Couple's therapy for one, just like go to it, even in the best of times, just do it. That's me giving everybody unsolicited advice.
00:35:48
Speaker
I also think you just have to learn how to how and when to have the conversations. For us, we're both we both got real strong Capricorn energy and we bring it we bring it to the table. And sometimes it gets really stubborn, you know, like the air is thick with stubbornness. And it's just like, I'm right and you're wrong. And there's no
00:36:14
Speaker
really like understanding that can happen there. So we just had to learn to value each other's experience, even if we didn't experience that thing that same way.
00:36:27
Speaker
find ways to just accept that maybe I have to do a thing for you just because that would be the thing that you need and not necessarily the thing that I want to do or the thing that I think you need. That's definitely still a work in progress and probably always will be because we're imperfect people, but I think that's the basis for that.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah. Were there ever any times you weren't sure if your relationship would continue? Oh yeah, during the pandemic. Just because, again, all that alone time
00:37:07
Speaker
was a lot and that's actually when we started couples therapy which couldn't have come in a better time because I was and I said this to her I was at the point of like I'm not saying I'm going to leave you I'm just saying that whatever this is that we're doing is absolutely not working for me and it's not working for you either so we just had to we were just stuck in that same pattern of being stubborn and fighting about literally nothing
00:37:36
Speaker
Uh, because we were stuck together forever, which I think a lot of people, well, I say that, you know, hoping that, hoping that everybody else can identify with this experience. But if you don't, that's great. Good for you. Um, but, uh, yeah, that was, that was an interesting time, but then we got the couples therapy and that was like a really good reset and a really good way to give us the tools to be able to, to move forward together instead of feeling like we were always going to fight each other.
Joy in Bisexuality
00:38:14
Speaker
Don't go away, there's a bit more with Andre coming up, but there's even more on Patreon. 15 extra minutes of bonus content for this episode alone, you won't want to miss it. And also full-length video of this entire interview, so you can see Andre instead of just hearing him. You can also witness all my weird facial expressions and many raised eyebrows as he speaks. Totally different experience, you should try it out.
00:38:29
Speaker
Cool. Love it. Yeah.
00:38:37
Speaker
That's patreon.com slash Robert Bricks Cohen. Bonus content, videos, early access, some other fun behind the scenes clips. Thanks also for listening to this series about bi-married men. I hope you're enjoying it so far. Don't forget that my book, Bisexual Married Men, Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity is out on November 30th, 2023, and it's available to pre-order now. Bakes a great holiday gift, don't you think? And now here is a little bit more with Andre T. Short. Enjoy.
00:39:11
Speaker
All right. Last question. Probably maybe, but last last real question on my list. How does your sexuality bring you joy? Hmm.
00:39:24
Speaker
I think in so many ways. I hope you can hear the joy too. It's such a joyful thing. I love the freedom that comes with it and the taking away of competition as well. I don't have to compete with the standard. I don't have to compete with
00:39:46
Speaker
like another straight dude because I'm just I'm not I'm not there anymore. I'm not on that level anymore. I'm on it. I'm not that I've leveled up or whatever, but I've just moved past that, I guess. And it's just so beautiful to be able to walk through the world and to see
00:40:03
Speaker
and try to understand things just as they are without judging them, without putting any pressure on them to be a different way. I mean, you know, there's of course things that we all wish were different, especially when it comes to horrible things that happen in the world, but that's that's not what I mean. I mean, just like
00:40:24
Speaker
being able to enjoy people for people and being able to, you know, enjoy the winter for the winter, even though it's like cold and dark and rainy the whole time, but just to kind of be able to find the joy in everything and accept things the way that they are because I've been able to accept myself. I also love, I just, I mean, I've talked about London being a good vibe, right?
00:40:51
Speaker
Like being on the tube and just being like, you know what? I don't have to feel bad about taking two second glances at that person with a really strong jaw. Like we love a strong job, you know, and I don't have to be worried about it. I mean, obviously like I wouldn't stare them down because that's creepy, but.
00:41:06
Speaker
to just be like, you know what, this is this is a new thing. Now I can think about what I like and not feel like it's a threat. We can talk about like my wife and I can talk about boys that we think are cute together. And that's totally, totally fine. It just feels like so much of a freer experience. So I don't know if there's like one thing that brings me joy. It's just the whole it's the whole thing. It's the whole package. It's the whole mindset. It's the whole experience. And it's it's
00:41:36
Speaker
I'm hoping it'll get better. I'm sure it will. It only has since I've come out.
Conclusion and Bonus Content Promotion
00:41:41
Speaker
So it's just all exciting. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, I and I identify with pretty much everything you just said and that freedom and like, even if you're not going to talk to someone on the subway, just like having the thought that that person is hot and I can acknowledge that and not have to
00:41:59
Speaker
look away quickly and deny that I was looking like that's just very freeing. And I can hear in your voice and see on video the energy you have around this and the joy that it does bring. And if you're listening to this and not watching the video, you should go watch the video on Patreon because you can really see it. You can see the difference. And people in my life told me that before and after I came out.
00:42:28
Speaker
they could feel the energy difference when they're around me. And you don't fully realize how transformative it can be until it happens. Absolutely. Is there anything else in your mind that we didn't get a chance to talk about? It's okay if there's not.
00:42:45
Speaker
Oh, not necessarily that we didn't get a chance to talk about, but what you just said made me think of when I caught up with a friend the other day who I hadn't seen in like months, like almost a full year. And he was like, oh, look at you. You seem so much lighter.
00:43:02
Speaker
And I was like, it's not all the gymnastics that I've been doing, it's the energy that I'm bringing. And that was great. Yeah, cool. That is awesome. And well, it's lovely to see you again. You as well. Thanks so much for doing the interview last year and being in the book and coming back.
00:43:21
Speaker
to talk today and for all the wisdom and vulnerability and joy that you have shared with us. I do think it's going to really affect so many people who are going through similar stuff and hopefully we can keep this going and encourage this kind of openness from more people. Awesome. Thank you so much again. Great to see you. Thank you for having me. It's an honor.
00:43:51
Speaker
Two Bye Guys is produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman, our music is by Ross Spencer. We are supported by the Gotham, and we are part of the Zencaster Creator Network. Visit Patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen for bonus content, early access, exclusive videos, and behind-the-scenes outtakes. Thanks so much for your support, and thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys.