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Saddle Friggers with Richard "Dick" Carroll
265 Plays1 year ago
An action-packed (and potentially venomous) episode with genuine Aussie illustrator, Richard “Dick” Carroll: The New York Bagel Situation, The Pitfalls of Masculinity, Dressing Up For the Punk Show, What’s In a Name, On The Observational Cartoonist,The Validity of Australian Stereotypes “AccaDacca,” Silverchair (again?!) Turning Yourself Into a Cartoon, and heaps more!
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Transcript
Introduction & School Chaos
00:00:04
Speaker
Greetings, hello, I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And you are now listening to Apocalypse Duds. It has been a time, it has been a hellish time at the school. It's really trying, but you just kinda gotta keep doing it because it's...
00:00:30
Speaker
What is right, I guess, not to be sanctimonious about it, but yeah. And you're only like, you're only what, two weeks in, like, since you started back or something? Yeah. Yeah. And it's been, uh, I think I'm going to start taking video, like, cause the stuff is unbelievable. Just like little kids, like running, just like running and screaming and running and screaming and running and screaming. Like.
00:01:00
Speaker
their parents don't even believe them, believe us when we say, when we say what's going on, you know, they're like, no, not my kid, which it's like this everywhere at every school with every child, right? It's not my little Bobby, he's a precious angel.
Engaging with Listeners
00:01:17
Speaker
Right, right. And Bobby is like punching a five-year-old in the head repeatedly. Bobby is the fucking son of Satan himself. He yells at Bobby, if you will.
00:01:30
Speaker
Right, right, right, exactly. So we wanted you to, well, I guess we wanted us to say thank you and welcome to our new listeners.
00:01:45
Speaker
we have been advertising and it's really been working, so. Yeah, yeah. Well done. We're too stupid to know if followers on Instagram equate to more listens, but hey, thank you for following along and giving our stupid little show a shot. To the extent that anything matters, like the metrics are important at all, like it's just,
00:02:12
Speaker
it will be good to interact with more people. I mean, that's been all of this show for both of us. I think it's just been meeting people.
Connor's Vintage Clothing Business
00:02:20
Speaker
And if you're a new person and want me to stop making the joke that we never get email, because I think I've done that. Send us an email, please. I think I've done it consistently for the middle of the day that we have
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, a little over a year. But yeah, shoot us an email. Tell us what you like, or don't like, or tell us go fuck ourselves. We don't care. We just, we like getting nods. Do you know if you want to say, fuck you? Yeah. Like even if you want to say, don't ever say shoot us an email again. Right. But please do it. Shoot us an email.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I don't have a traditional job. I work for myself selling vintage clothing as I'm sure everyone is aware.
Matt's New Band at 40
00:03:09
Speaker
So I do not have the wonderful problems that Connor gets for working in the school system. Yeah, I have a little bit easier of a life and in that easiness I have had the second band practice for a new band this past Saturday.
00:03:28
Speaker
And man, starting a band when you're almost 40 versus starting a band when you're 21 is a vastly different experience. And in a lot of ways, I don't know. I'm really pumped on how me and the other two dudes, Grayson and Eric, kind of gelled. And we spent four hours practicing one song, and it's almost done. So yeah, hopefully by the end of the year, we'll have something for four days. Sounds fucking awesome.
00:03:57
Speaker
Thank
Friendship & Podcast Dynamics
00:03:58
Speaker
you, Connor. Thank you. Yeah, I always get inspiration. It's the like, it's the like, Matt version two, or it's like, I figure Matt is holding his phone up to the to the speaker. It's like, yeah, it's being recorded. But it's like, yeah, it's a little nice. And it's like, not
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's a little better. Little, little slapdash. Like, it's just practice shit for right now that I'm showing him. But, you know, I'm one of those wonderful night owls that gets inspiration. I'm like one in the morning. And if Connor is up or he responds the next morning, he's he's always a positive telling me this sounds good. Or if it sucks, he's like, yeah, that's not great. And we he. I mean, I would definitely tell you.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, we have almost diametrically opposed musical tastes in a lot of ways, but like there's definitely some crossover. And Carter has been a cheerleader for the past, I don't know, nine months since I started like writing and playing. Nice of you.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, we have like whatever kind of relationship we have. It's just this good one where we're really supportive of each other. Yeah. Yeah. And I tell Connor- That's like part of the show too. Yeah. This show is really just like us turning our personal relationship with one another into something.
00:05:24
Speaker
And yeah, we've said it before and I'll say it again, like whatever Connor sends me something that I just absolutely think is heinous. I tell him and I am now his barometer for things that he thinks are cool. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's terrible. Yeah, right. If Matt thinks it sucks, I'm buying it, baby. I'm buying it. That too me overnight. Yeah, yeah. Anyway.
00:05:51
Speaker
But yeah, that's what's going on in our world. We have the apocalypse studs extended universe. Connor wrote something that I had a really hard time trying to articulate. And so before we get to our wonderful chat with Dick Carroll,
Cultural Humor & Guest Introduction
00:06:15
Speaker
Amazing. Amazing. Just phenomenal artists, like funniest shit. I don't know. Super, super funny. Even for an Australian. Even for, I personally love Australians. Like, I don't think I've ever had a bad interaction with Australians. I would lie, obviously.
00:06:31
Speaker
It's a joke, it's a joke, right? They are stereotypically funny people. They are, they are. There are no Paul Hogan references, which to my chagrin I withheld during the conversation. Yeah, we didn't talk Crocodile Dundee somehow. We didn't. I fucking love Crocodile Dundee. It was a very good... That movie is in the Smith collection. Yeah, yeah. The Transformers series.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah, I have this the new Top Gun. The new Top Gun is fantastic. Yeah, I know it's propaganda, but I like it anyway because I have a terrible taste in cinema.
00:07:12
Speaker
But yeah, we talked a bit about growing up in Australia, walking across the paddock. I don't know how many other... Hoppin' fences. Hoppin' fences. Yeah, we talked about him like being a punk rock kid, pushing a skateboard around the New South Wales. Him drawing himself as his basically main character in a lot of his illustration. And yeah, it was...
00:07:40
Speaker
It was a really fun, a little over an hour combo with Dick. But yeah, before we get into that, Connor, put into words something that we would like to say. So if you've listened to this show in one episode, if you've listened to five minutes of this show, I think you already know our stance on the quote situation in Gaza.
00:08:08
Speaker
But we want to be clear, we do not punch down on this show, period. Everyone's humanity is sacrosanct. And I think that that kind of sums it up.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yep. So, uh, yeah, if you, you know, if you like what we're doing, um, we would love a buck or two. If you feel so in con, uh, Connor's Venmo is at Connor dash Fowler. His PayPal is Connor Fowler at gmail.com. And yeah, stick around. Cause I think you're going to really enjoy this episode and thank you for listening. You'll get a hearty chuckle.
00:08:50
Speaker
or something, whatever they say down there. Crikey and g'day, mate. As they say in the bush, throw another vegan shrimp on the barbie and crack open an ice-cold Foster's as we prepare to welcome Australian cartoonist, Australian and cartoon, a man from the land down under, Richard Dick Carroll. Hello.
00:09:18
Speaker
Hello. Dick, I have to go on record to tell you that I struck down all of these stupid fucking cliche jokes that Connor wanted to make about Australia. That's the whole entire point. We looked up the slang words. We know about bludging, okay? This is where we are on the show. It's an educational experience. A vegan shrimp on the barbie? What does that even mean?
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Vegan shrimp. OK. I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. It would be just like Play-Doh. I am vegan, have had a lot of vegan options. I have never been a seafood person. And so I probably wouldn't even try vegan shrimp, just so we're clear here. And I don't know what it would be.
Australian Landscape & Rural Life
00:10:06
Speaker
I don't know what it would be based off of. We're not ripping on veganism, we just thought. I thought it would be funny.
00:10:14
Speaker
because I couldn't get Matt to touch a real shrimp.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's like a weird ice a bug on ice About eating bugs when they're just we're eating bugs all the time like yeah are much grosser than any bug They're so weird you like probably this little shell and sock the inside out. That's but yeah. Yeah, it's fucking strange I've never understood it will never understand it, but I'll eat it, but then you want it like a cricket
00:10:45
Speaker
What's the difference? I have eaten crickets. I don't like seafood, so I don't eat seafood. I have eaten bugs, but I will not eat seafood. I always say I don't like seafood, and then I'm like, if I'm near some seafood, I'm like, yeah, I'll eat all of this. I'll eat it. Well, I imagine it's extremely common in Australia to seafood. I'm inland, baby, so it doesn't even rain where I come from. So let's get into that. Yeah, where are you from in Australia?
00:11:15
Speaker
Central West New South Wales from a town called Dubbo Don't really love that Central West when it's but it's it's like the last town on the on the edge of the Great Nothing that is Australia But
00:11:38
Speaker
terminology for like bands of Australia, right? So like you're in the coastal part of Australia, and then you're in the outback, and then you're in the bush. This, I don't know what I was reading, but I was reading something. I don't know. I don't think there's a difference between the outback and the bush. Oh, they're synonymous. You would say the bush. You are. I am. There's like a mountain range on the east side, on the east coast of Australia.
00:12:08
Speaker
uh the great dividing range and basically on the east of that is like pretty lush and green and then on the west of that mountain range it's becomes gradually more deserty and baron gotcha yeah dude in deserts i've never seen a desert in my life it's not really a desert but yeah it's deserty desertish those plants they're very small
00:12:38
Speaker
Dick, have you been to the Southwest of the U.S., like New Mexico, Arizona, West Texas? Is it kind of similar?
00:12:46
Speaker
like where you come from to that type of like terrain. Okay. Okay. So it's, it's somehow worse than living in like 125 degree heat with, you know, it's a, it's a dry heat. Right. Right. Plants are so different because there's no Australian plants are only in Australia pretty much. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's like parts of California, which feel very Australian, but not like where I grew up, where it's
Queens, NY Food Culture
00:13:11
Speaker
like.
00:13:12
Speaker
where there are palm trees that are probably Australian and gum trees, all of these probably terribly invasive plants that planted like that a few years ago, thinking that they were good for the environment, but actually they were terrible for the environment. But when I walk around there, I'm like, oh, this smells like Australia. The color is not like Australia. I mean, the sun is brighter and the colors are brighter. The ground is red.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah. Like that red clay, and then the trees are not a real green. And they're very sparse, so they don't have that tree shape. I never understood why people would draw trees that way, cartoons. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, for sure. You mean the way that I still draw a tree?
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's what trees look like. But where I grow old trees, they look like that. They're just the wind. And they're like this blue, green, gray. They're not really very green. Interesting. Yeah. As someone that lives in the southern part of the United States, I am very well familiar with red clay. And if it's anything like the shit here, then God help everyone. That's pretty interesting. Yeah, I think so as well. So you're from New South Wales. Where do you live now, Nick?
00:14:21
Speaker
I live in Queens in New York. Nice. Nice. Forest Hills. Forest Hills. All right. All right. Get down with that. I call it the fucking Queens. That's what we call it. Fucking Queens, yeah. All cats. I was a Bushwick. I was a Bushwick very close to Ridgewood resident for a few years. And I fucking love both Eastern Brooklyn and Eastern Queens. I don't know. There's some cool shit things. Queens is cool.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Culture is cool. It's just like diversity is it makes everything good. Equals sick. And my my my wife's parents are sort of from nearby. They don't live here anymore. They live actually close to you, Connor, in Silver Spring, Maryland. But sure. Feels cool being like from where they're from. They're around. Yeah. A lot of stuff. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Queens. How good is the food in your neighborhood? Wop on a broom.
00:15:17
Speaker
It's medium, really? It's medium. It's medium. It's like a really nice part of Queens. It's not gentrified. It's ungentrifiable, I say, because it's like one of those parts of town that was never had an up and down period. It was always nice. It was built in the 30s or 40s, and it was nice then, and it's still nice now.
00:15:40
Speaker
Probably upper middle class. This is one of the wealthier neighborhoods in Queens. So the food is fine. The food's fine. We have that middle ground. We have some good food, but not as good as the other parts of Queens where there are a lot of migrants. Right. So it's like a lot of white people food, basically.
00:16:03
Speaker
It's just like a lot of mid restaurants. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. It reminds me of DC food kind of like a mid city. Pretty good. Too expensive. And like not that interesting. Yeah. It costs $50 and it might as well be frozen. Yeah. It's like, it's good. I don't have a fondness for the district.
00:16:29
Speaker
you might you might detect i mean a lot of bagels like a lot of places that bake on that they're old i i miss i miss the fucking new york bagels like just the the bodega on the corner with a deli has amazing fucking bagels like there are i was having this conversation with a friend like
00:16:51
Speaker
In Atlanta, there's one or actually there's like an old, old Jewish spot that's like constantly packed. I think they may have two locations at this point, but they've been in business since like the fifties. So, you know, they know what's up.
New York Bagel Prices
00:17:05
Speaker
And then in the neighborhood where I mostly like go out, hang out or whatever, there's a place that makes really good bagels. I will give them this. But I call them gentrified bagels because it's like this artisanal bullshit.
00:17:20
Speaker
And it's like $9 for a bagel with like avocado spread on it. And I'm like, guys, dude, just like make traditional fucking bagels. Oh, really? Really? Yeah, dude, like we can go to like to like classic queen spots where well, it's everywhere where I live. There's no one cool is coming out here to like hit up the bagels. Right. There's nothing cool out here. And every spot is is good. But we go out to like on the other side of the big park.
00:17:49
Speaker
into this great bagel spot called Utopia Bagels, which might be the best bagel spot in New York City. And that place is so busy and like a plain bagel with cream cheese is probably $4.
00:18:03
Speaker
Okay. Maybe 450. No, that's expensive, dude. That is expensive. It's like bagels and rent, dude. When I moved to New York, I could get a bagel, a plain bagel with plain cream cheese for $2 or $1.50. That was only 10 years ago. And now it's three times that much, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Which, comparatively to the gentrified bagels in Atlanta, that is definitely cheap.
00:18:28
Speaker
but yeah like the spot that i used to go to with locks and cream cheese you gotta pay sixteen dollars seven yeah yeah just just just an absurdity to pay that much money for breakfast they tried to open one on greenmount avenue here in baltimore which is like drug corridor basically and it was fifteen to twenty dollars a bagel they were open for like
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So Dick, we like sometimes on this
Dick Carroll's Outfit & Fashion
00:18:59
Speaker
on the show, we start with a what we call the ensemble investigation, which is what are you wearing today? So we saw some cool shit in the intro video. Let's have what you got head to toe, toe to foot, sorry, toe to head, whatever.
00:19:14
Speaker
I'll do toed ahead. I'm wearing shoes because I don't really care about wearing shoes inside. I'm one of those people. And I just go outside. Normally I would be wearing Ugg boots. Okay, all right. I wear them inside. I'm not wearing them right now. Because I just was outside somewhere in plain toed bluches, the olden one on the Barry last night. With a big skull. I'm wearing red socks, Levi's.
00:19:43
Speaker
i wear jeans when i'm working because i can get painted stuff on them and not i mean i don't really care about getting paint on my dress pants but right you know so it's less cool they just did like a bit fucked up um so i just wear like the same pair of jeans every day somewhere in those levi's like uh the lvc
00:20:06
Speaker
They're actually the last of the Cone Mills denim, remember when they sold it to the factory, whatever, seven or eight years ago? And the Levi's stores were just blitzing all of their LVC stuff that worked Cone Mills. They just wanted to get rid of it. Of course. To not have to talk about it, I guess. Kind of makes sense. I get it. But it's still like, wow, this is like the best stuff you guys sell. And you're just like, fuck, 80% off and 90% off. So I picked it up. Yeah, yeah. That sounds very similar.
00:20:35
Speaker
yeah that sounds very similar to the first pair of like i bought my first lvcs i think in 2008 and and it was the same kind of shit like into the season sale everything's 90 off you're like really this is how it works like these these dark yeah so i've got those on they never fade i put them in the dryer like i wash them in the machine
00:20:58
Speaker
Nothing. Yeah. They fade never. So they're slowly breaking in. I've had them for like six years. That's it. I'm wearing a man after T-shirt and a yellow Shetland. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. The Shetland is key. Yeah, it's a great sweater. Yes. If I do say so. The sweater's very stained with paint and stuff, so that's why. Dude, that makes it cooler. Just out of curiosity, why LBCCut is that?
00:21:29
Speaker
It's like a 55 or something. Oh, nice. Okay. They shuffle them around a bit. But yeah, I think it's the 1955 or 54 or something like that. Yeah, it's just a classic wide leg.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah. Hell yeah. They're tagged at 33. The voice must be actually 36. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The quality control was always very, very weird with LVC. You could try them, or Levi's in general, you can try them two identical size pairs and they will both fit completely different. Like it drives me insane. That's cool.
00:22:05
Speaker
It's hard that kids can't keep it, can't keep it straight. Well, they shrink, they shrink, right? Especially secondhand, but the new ones, these didn't really shrink at all. Right. Right. Which is weird because I've had pairs that were tagged like a, you know, a 31 and they measured like a 34 and then they would shrink to a 28. And I'm like, guys, what are you, what are you doing here? I don't understand that. That's it. Well, when I bought them, I was a 33.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm gonna just throw these in the dryer and shrink them up and they'll be great. And then they were huge. And now I'm much closer to whatever their untagged waste is. We don't need to measure it. It's nice to grow into something in that way though. All my other genes have sort of, you know, they're in the bottom of the drawer. You don't get rid of them because you're gonna
00:22:56
Speaker
You got to trim down one day. Right. Right. Exactly right. You just have to have 15 articles of clothing that you will never, ever, ever fit into, even if you cut off pieces of your body. That's it. It's not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. So what, you know, obviously you've had an interesting thing for a while.
00:23:15
Speaker
We have asked in the past what your first clothing memory is, but I really like, after listening to another podcast that I love, they have a similar question about music, but what do you remember the first piece of clothing or footwear or whatever that had an impact on you? Oh, an impact. I'm not really sure. I don't think I really cared about clothes until I was a teenager. Oh, yeah. That's totally fine.
00:23:44
Speaker
That's like the age, though, basically, because no one is like eight and it's like, I want to fucking wear these pants. I want to go into it. I have this memory. Well, I'm not sure if it's a memory or if I have just thought about it since. But I had this shirt that was like my dressy shirt. You know what I mean? Yeah, I sort of really grew up in like a lower middle class family. And we would have like one good shirt that we'd wear if we were like going to the
00:24:12
Speaker
The RSL club, which is like a diner that's attached to a casino. Technically, it's a club, but it's really more like, you know, I mean, you have to pay. It's it's probably three or four dollars a year to be a member. Right. We used to go there for like the two dollar roast dinners on Sundays. And. And I had this shirt, which was like an Adidas rugby shirt and I had big vertical stripes. I was probably like 10 or 11.
00:24:42
Speaker
like bright blue, white and black. And that was like my dressiest shirt. I would wear it to like someone's wedding and eat like the fanciest events I would go to. But I would have to wear it if we went to the RSL club. That was my. That's OK. Mid 90s Adidas, probably. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's that's sweet. I mean, like the dressy rugby.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because you're a little more formal, you're a little less casual. It's a middle shirt. It's a middle shirt. What about the kinds of stuff that you saw while you were growing up? I mean, in the middle of nowhere? Yeah, I had a
00:25:39
Speaker
I liked skaters and I was a skater. We didn't really have skaters. You were. I was a skater from maybe when I was like 11 or 12 or something.
00:25:49
Speaker
And I liked that sort of thing in the late 90s, you know? Right. Right. I like music and stuff, but like looking around, I mean, the stuff I hated is like the stuff that I wear right now. We associate it. Right. Yeah, it's ironic that like the kids that came from farms were the rich kids. It's not what you necessarily would think.
00:26:09
Speaker
So the farm kids were the rich kids and they all dress really preppy in an Australian sort of way. And they wore Ralph Lauren and jeans and stuff. We didn't wear jeans at all because we were like, we're not those. Because you didn't want to be perceived. Those kids suck. They suck.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah, we wouldn't even wear jeans. I remember making a pact with one of my friends, Josh Wells. I'm going to name drop on here. Nice. We would never wear slim jeans because that's what the farm boys would wear. Wow. That is really wild. Saddle friggers, we called them. Like they were jerking off saddles. Saddle friggers? Got to write that one down. Saddle friggers. In South America and in Latin America, the farms are where the rich people are.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same. So in the farm kids would go to like private schools in the city, like boarding schools and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I like those guys now. I left the city and they're actually they're like fun to hang around. But I don't like them at the time. I don't like them in 1995, you know? Yeah. No, it's odd. I mean, I had a I had a similar feeling about like Ralph and about preppy when I was a boy, too, because it was like,
00:27:28
Speaker
These people are not like me. These people do not like me. So what am I going to dress up like them for? And now here I am, right? It was kind of fun to, later on, we just dressed that way. Me and some friends, we would just dress that way as a joke kind of. Oh, totally. An ironic in joke. Right. And that's what it's all about. We're going to punk and noise shows, but we're dressed as fucking dressed up.
00:28:04
Speaker
right but that is punk in the punk scene is to look like not everyone else yeah yeah that's right that's right so it felt it felt like we fit in that way totally i told cotter a story i think it was yesterday about um at my sophomore year in high school you know i'd started driving um i was very into like punk and christian ska
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, I was at the Game Grumps show with the tie on.
00:28:27
Speaker
that we discussed on the last fucking episode. Yeah, yeah. We've already been down this road. I don't want to get into it. And like, like, you know, I was a weirdo in a town of like, you know, 7,000 people. There were like 250 people in my high school. Yeah, I am a weirdo. But, you know, like I was into all this shit. And then me and my friends during quote unquote spirit week during like the football season, we would have suit day.
00:28:55
Speaker
And so my outfit for suit day, pretty much standard, was a Stuart Tartan sport coat that I thrifted. Who knows if it's fit well or not. I really hope that there's no documented evidence of this. But then there's a trash I used to wear, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Thank fucking God my parents forbid me to wear big jinkos.
00:29:22
Speaker
anyway yeah so like it was that that jacket with wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait were you wearing the jinkos with the no no no no i was that i was forbid to wear the huge ones i could only wear the like normal sized ones which basically fit like dickies anyway so yeah so it's the stewart jacket a white button down shirt from fucking walmart or something
00:29:46
Speaker
Skinny black tie probably also from Walmart or thrifted black dickies and black Chuck Taylors and I was like I'm the fucking shit because I'm not dressed like these other assholes Like yeah, that's a that's a very punk like punk Yeah, like, you know, I just I love hearing other stories that are kind of synonymous in ways I'm like, yeah, like dude wearing a tie and a fucking jacket to a punk show like that's that's the ultimate punk
00:30:17
Speaker
That's how I look like such a freak. Yeah, I want to ask before we get into the art thing. What is it like going my dick? I mean, did you choose it? Did you was the alternative rich Richard? I mean, I know that that is the alternative, but I'm saying in practical conversational sense.
Small Town Life & Art Journey
00:30:37
Speaker
It's really it's just started as like a pen name that I made up for myself when I was during comics Not even that long ago. I mean maybe well probably 12 years ago, you know What's in the scheme of things? So no one really called me dick
00:30:55
Speaker
My parents, like, well, and in Australia, we don't really care about names that much. I don't want to generalize cultural stuff too much, but it feels like in America, people are more uptight about being called to think they want to be called. And if you don't call them that thing, you're being disrespectful or whatever. But in Australia, the opposite is sort of true of you. If you come up with a name for someone, even someone you don't know, someone you haven't even talked to before, you could like start calling them something that could be insulting or anything.
00:31:23
Speaker
And it's sort of like a fun way to chat with people. It sort of means that you like them a bit. It's like, oh, yeah, well, it's so you like me. So everyone sort of calls everyone different things. But mostly I got called Rick or Ricky. OK, yeah. My those are my most normal names. Like that's what my wife calls me. That's what my parents call me. No, I only calls me Richard. One or two teachers would call me Richard. And as I got older, I started calling myself Richard Moore.
00:31:52
Speaker
not because I wanted to just because it was sort of my name. And there was this point where I was in primary school, my first bank card, we got like a bank card when we're like five years old or whatever, start saving money with school, something like this. And my bank card just said Ricky on it. Didn't have my real name on it. My official bank card, right? So they had given you
00:32:18
Speaker
I had that account my whole life until I was like 18 and I never got my license Which is another punk rock thing. I decided to do just hell. Yeah Everywhere dude, but
00:32:36
Speaker
No, it sucks to not be able to drive. Well, I guess in Queens there are more places to drive. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. But so I had to change my name at the bank. It was really hard to go into the bank and try to convince them that my name was actually Richard. They were like, your name's Ricky. Why would we make this account? I had to have that piece of documentation to get my ID.
00:33:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it was super hard to do and I was like, I know like three or four of these tellers, you know, since I was a kid, like they all know me, you know, I write and we just make this happen. But it was it was a very small town.
00:33:14
Speaker
Not that small, but, you know, small. Well, I thought it was the biggest in that. Yes. New South Wales, right? No. Sydney's in New South Wales. Oh, I see. I mean, Australia has only like seven states or something. So I can't even I'll count one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eight. We have eight. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But so, yeah, New South Wales is huge, though. It's probably two times the size of Texas.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, they're really, really, really big. I was looking at like a scale map. But there's nothing else. We're on a highway. So if you drive from Sydney to go anywhere, you go through my town, basically. And if you're driving across the country, you also go through my town. So that's why it's there. There's probably 50,000 people there still. There was when I grew up, and there still is. So it's kind of big, 50,000. Yeah. There's probably five high schools or something.
00:34:09
Speaker
okay high schools we knew everyone you know what i mean you kind of knew everyone in your own year a little bit yeah it was big enough you didn't definitely know everyone but you pretty much knew everyone yeah yeah it sounds like a pretty typical like like suburb outside of major u.s city like yeah but there's nothing else nearby you know what i mean they're right oh they might have like one or two thousand people in them so there's really like
00:34:37
Speaker
The 50,000 feels smaller than like a suburban town where there's other suburbs where you can actually do stuff. For sure. Because it's not like part of the metro, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're on a train, but it's like a rural line.
00:34:54
Speaker
Right. Interesting. We don't know anything about trains in America because we just don't have it. I'm just the same in Australia. Yeah. Infrastructure stuff just as bad or worse. Yeah. I mean, I believe it. I think infrastructure in a lot of places is bad where they don't tax the right people. Yeah. I used to be up. We lived out of town for a while, like just on the outskirts of town when I was like 18 and I would catch a bus to work.
00:35:22
Speaker
because it was probably an hour walk or longer and through the bush to walk, like I had to walk through farms. I would like to jump fences and walk through farms to get to work. If I was going to walk, that's how I'd have to do it. And I was the only person that ever caught the bus. I asked the bus driver once, am I the only guy who catches this bus? And he was like, yeah, there used to be a lady, but she stopped watching it. It was just me. Yeah, that's crazy. I'd sit like up the back, play my Gameboy Advance.
00:35:54
Speaker
Nice, nice. That's like the surreal existence. Yes. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Walking through the bush to go to work versus being the only person on the bus is a crazy dichotomy. It's both a bit surreal. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you get your start drawing? Is this something you've done since you were a kid or something you picked up later in life?
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think it's the same story for most people where it's just something you don't stop doing, right? That's right. OK, that's it. Right. Everyone does what it's like usually, or maybe they don't, but I think they do. But I was shitty at drawing. But I was shitty at drawing. I painted I painted miniatures like you did.
00:36:47
Speaker
But I was not good at drawing. But when you're really young, you know, when you're like five to 10, you draw a lot. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We just didn't stop drawing. That's all. That's the difference. OK. OK. When people tell kids that their stuff sucks, too. So it's like, you know. Right. You mentioned paint earlier. Like, what is your preferred medium for the illustration that you do?
00:37:14
Speaker
Oh, uh, I usually use watercolor paint. It's not really paint. I guess it is really paint. I just use ink of watercolor. That's what I usually use. So it's physical.
00:37:29
Speaker
like you're not yeah you're not drawing on an ipad which no no offense to that i'm not meaning that you know different artists have different ideas i think it's actually fine now there was some i don't think there's any difference really except you have a physical piece which i like right yeah totally totally yeah i mean as someone that was just another tool but totally you know you're interested in clothing which is a physical thing and so it totally tracks in my mind that like a physical art piece is is preferable to you
00:38:00
Speaker
I like how it takes choices away as well. You have an audio page. You can zoom in. So you have this finite space. And then, especially when you're coloring in digitally, I just go straight out. You just pick a random color that's close to what you think you want. You just start doing it. But when you're going to slap a color on a page and you can't really take it back, you just stop for a second.
00:38:30
Speaker
You have to think, oh, OK, do I really want to do this color? And it. Yeah, that's a little icing. Making yourself make those choices is useful, I think. Yeah, totally. So I wanted to talk about your inspirations. And while you have said in an interview you compared clothing to cartooning, which I thought was brilliant, quote,
Cartooning & Fashion Illustration
00:38:56
Speaker
It's a very rich form of expression, but also one that people don't take too seriously. So to what you were talking about just now, could you tell us about some of the ways that you use clothing to communicate in your art? Oh, in my art? Yeah. Did you say you don't think you said that? I'm sure I said it. I believe it. It's a great point. And when I read that in that interview, I was like,
00:39:26
Speaker
This is gonna be a great interview. Cause I found that quote and I was like, this is gonna be a great interview. Cause this guy thinks in an abstract way. I agree with it. I mean, I went to art school proper, like real art school too. Yeah. Well, you went to sports. I teach you any skills. I went to like art school where they teach you how to like think about stuff. Yeah. So you're just forced to think about stuff for the rest of your life if you do that, which is okay. It's like a worthwhile burden.
00:39:55
Speaker
How do you use clothing to communicate? Oh, okay. Okay. So originally they were just two separate things for me. I mean, they're not really separate. You know, you're like art school kids. I think are the best dresses. Hmm. And I would put myself in the past in the arts school kid group. I'm not really an arts school kid. I'm an arts school kid at heart, but I don't look like an arts school kid anymore necessarily. I'm old now. Cause you wear suits a lot, right? I wear suits or whatever. So, and then, and then on the other hand, um, I make comics.
00:40:25
Speaker
Right, I think tunists can be good dresses some of my favorite cartoonists I think are good ish dresses but cartoonists have this Because they draw everything we have to like Even more so than like a photographer or a filmmaker, you know, if you're drawing a room you have to like You have to draw the door And if there's if there's like an ironing board behind the door, you have to think okay, there's an ironing board back there I'm gonna draw that and then next to this there's a dresser and on the dresser there's like
00:40:53
Speaker
there's some books, and then I get to write what the books are. And then on the books, there's some other stuff, you know, you sort of have to really think a lot. So I think cartoonists pay a lot of attention to stuff. Yes, we're walking around. So I think we're the best observers maybe. Yeah, but I think cartoonists by default are very good observers. And I think clothing is good. If it's a good way
00:41:17
Speaker
to send a signal if you're an observer you could see something and say and sort of you make up these little narratives about people based on how they dress and so you could you could take that back on yourself as well and think oh okay i can make little narratives up or or i could try to portray little narratives by dressing certain ways in certain situations or something of course people see me maybe they'll think the things that i think when i see people dress certain ways or whatever
00:41:43
Speaker
That's why I do what I do. Cause I want the six year old to think that I am in charge. Look at that guy. Oh, do you know what I mean? It's like totally. I know what you're saying.
00:41:54
Speaker
We might be on different wavelengths. I want to be like, I want someone that's not from New York to see me on the train and be like, whoa, look at that guy. That's it. People ask me when people ask me for directions. I'm in New York. I'm like, I won. Yeah, no, so I'm not saying like I want to.
00:42:15
Speaker
as an authority figure, I'm saying to a six year old, there's very limited perception. And the six year old sees the tie, the jacket, they see like the white man, they're like, he'll send us to the office. And I won't. And that's the secret. They've never tested it.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I'm not going to punish anyone. I was punished plenty in my school days and it didn't do me a fucking lick of good. So. Yeah, you're actually make comics about close for a million years. I just used to make auto bio comics and whatever. Yeah. Well, that's that's amazing. That's my era. You know, the 90s late 90s. Yeah. I studied this stuff in college. Yeah. You're not the first cartoonist that we had on.
00:43:07
Speaker
No, we had the cartoonist for The Economist on. Oh, really? Who is a dear, dear friend of mine. Yeah. And just like I think because he's the only cartoonist I've known for a while. I mean, I've known some other people who are drawing cartoons, but like just a genius, just a pure genius. And I think like people who have the ability to draw cartoons are like
00:43:35
Speaker
you're set in the brain category. Well, this goes to one of the later questions, actually. So when I was a boy and I was dressing up my GI Joes, I was limited by the clothes that existed. But you, when you're outfitting people, you can do whatever the fuck you want over again, right? I mean, I guess with the painting, kind of not so much.
00:44:04
Speaker
Just amazing. So many choices that you have to make. Is there ever optioned paralysis? Well, maybe... I think it's the same as everything, you know?
00:44:18
Speaker
It's like driving, I guess, not that I drive. I was going to say, you could go anywhere, but you're just going to go the same way. You always go, you know, after a while you get the hang of, especially with drawing. I think a lot of drawing cartoons or drawing anything is you develop this like language that you use personally or that you've copied. Usually you copy it off other people. And then after a while, it just becomes your own language.
00:44:45
Speaker
And then so you just learn how to draw certain things, certain ways. And then you just always draw those same things that same way. I think a lot of the time it's going to be the stuff that you engage with because you can't really draw things that you don't understand. You could try, but.
00:45:03
Speaker
It's always you guys or maybe you never notice that sport coats on animated characters always look terrible. Not like sport coats at all. Oh, yeah. Bad representation of like geometry. It's like they they button at a weird point. And I mean, they don't have to exist as a real thing. You know what I mean? There's just like a symbol like adult adult comedy cartoons.
00:45:32
Speaker
But they're always super short because it's quite hard to draw a sport cut that's going to cover your whole bum and then just have little legs sticking out of the bottom of it. That's really hard to animate, I think. So you do need, especially for these more shapely characters, like a Bugs Bunny sort of guy. Yeah, it's it's weird, but I think that's just because the animators aren't engaging with that clothing, probably.
00:45:53
Speaker
Older cartoons are much better at it like Bugs Bunny in a in a tux from like a Chuck Jones cartoon or something Which is not something that I know if it exists or not. I'm just that's just an example I made up but that would Be positive it exists But
00:46:13
Speaker
Your herringbone, for example, and like I'm not an artist in this way. I can appreciate many different things as art that I do. I am not a traditional artist. It just isn't what it is. Like my grandmother is an artist. She's extremely talented. I am not talented in that way. The herringbone that I've seen, it's always a little bit of
00:46:37
Speaker
And like, maybe this is obvious. I would have tried to do the whole thing and it would have looked like shtulkshit. So like you have a suggestion of the pattern. And I think that that is really brilliant. I don't love doing really meticulous work, so. Yeah.
00:46:56
Speaker
I like doing different parts of different things, and I could be meticulous about writing or pacing or something, but... Because the copy is good too, I wanted to say. It's just very difficult. Yeah. Or it's not something that I engage with that well, I don't think, so you don't have to do it. I think it looks good. It can look good, like different textures. You know, same with dressing.
00:47:18
Speaker
like slowboy does it really nicely i think he draws every little detail on everything he draws yeah the chinese english guy yeah yeah um but yeah i just think you're either gonna do every every single fucking line or just just hint at it but you can hint at stuff that's the secret that
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah. In the 90s. I think we're all the same age, late 30s, or maybe I'm being busy. Yeah. I'll be 40. I'll be 40 next month. You remember the 90s comics? Boom.
00:47:52
Speaker
that we grew up with, Matt? Yes, OK. Cheers. Which I was obviously influenced by, as I'm sure you were. So we're all drawing spawn in the back of our schoolbooks and stuff. Those guys just put so much detail into their drawings. Unnecessary detail. What is his name? Just one guy? Todd McFarlane. Right. Yeah, right, right. But that, you don't need to do it. You can just hint. Yeah.
00:48:21
Speaker
it's like interesting like to draw a shirt on a guy drawing like if the guy's quite far away you wouldn't I wouldn't draw like the center line to show or the buttons on the front of the shirt right right it just gets it looks too weird yeah and it's a perspective thing too you have to learn you have to learn not to draw what not right as well yeah well when you think you think well there's a line down the middle I have to draw it because it's there
00:48:48
Speaker
otherwise it's not a shirt, it's like a sack, but you don't have to. Can you extrapolate then from the drawings, like what not to wear? Because I think that a lot of people are using those, your style drawings, educationally even.
00:49:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the intent of them as well, for me. That's your intent. And people who pay me too, I'm sure. That's why they're paying me. Yes. I think there's something there in a drawing which says, especially when it's not labeled, there's this like masculine energy to like collect things and be very exact about stuff. You know what I mean?
00:49:25
Speaker
where it's like, yeah, I have this list of things and I just need to get everything on this list. Very specific things. I need this coin from 1942. I need this exact pair of sunglasses. But really, it doesn't matter. Any pair of sunglasses that looks kind of like that pair of sunglasses is going to be fine.
00:49:44
Speaker
Unless you really, and so I think drawings useful for that because you can just draw, you can be quite vague and people look at it and they don't think, Oh, I need those exact pants that you might think if you saw it, uh, like a photo of someone wearing some jeans, you think, Oh, okay. I could only look like that guy if I'm wearing those exact pants. But if it's just a drawing, you think, okay, I could wear blue pants and a red shirt and look fine. That sounds, that sounds like a cool combo.
00:50:10
Speaker
I'm sad that I've never really like, yeah, it makes total sense that I'm really like mad at myself for never kind of realizing that about fashion illustration. Like, you know, yeah, symbolism, you know, it's not really, it's not really the thing, just like a bunch of lines and stuff. You know, photography is also symbolism, but just less, less so. Yeah, reality either.
00:50:37
Speaker
No, definitely not. And there are certain things about a photograph where like, you know, certain brands, designers, whatever have a very like, oh, I can pick that out. But a lot of times like photos often, you know, if it's not something, you know, if it's a Navy jacket, a pair of gray pants,
00:51:00
Speaker
and things done very well, it's like, oh, I can also see that. And that's where like, your art comes in. It's like, you're not, you know, you're not throwing a label on something and being like, go buy this fucking pair of Levi's LVC pants. It's like, oh yeah, those are, those are jeans. Like that's, yeah, that's just like a genius way to think about it, which I've never, never had that thought sadly. Maybe you'll tire of us calling you a genius, but we're,
00:51:29
Speaker
probably have like half an hour left, so. And I like honestly, I respect and have respected cartoonists my entire life. Like there are teachers, there are social workers, and there are cartoonists. And those are like the salt of the earth people who are guiding us through this terrible dark night. Yeah, it's a crazy job. I'm sure it is. Did you like draw?
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah. Well, did you like draw cartoons for the school newspaper stuff like that? I mean, we didn't have a school newspaper, but I did draw. I was in the year. I did draw cartoons in the yearbook and stuff, but not. Oh, that's cool. Like fucking I drew like a like a Gen X team in my best Campbell in late 90s.
00:52:23
Speaker
I would copy a lot of like Warhammer fantasy art stuff like that. Ah see I was up on that shit too yeah. When I was younger I was really into just classic cartoons and classic animation.
00:52:37
Speaker
which really had a revival in the 90s and late 80s. So to be in that to be in that field, you know, but that was where once I was in article, I was like, this is it, man. This is what I like. This is what I really like is these old cartoons. And so I started drawing more like that. Hell, yes. Do you have examples of your like early cartoons and things still?
00:53:02
Speaker
Not that we want you to send them to us, but... In Australia, maybe. I don't think I had anything I would send. In the early thousands where I drew a lot of digital stuff, and it's all on some hard drive or something. I was always on the internet, I had a website.
00:53:20
Speaker
Oh, you were a non-internet user? Yes. Were you on something awful? No. Damn. See, no one, man. Why? It was like the much better version of all of the other humor sites. It was moderated.
00:53:51
Speaker
And there was a paywall! Lhotex DIED! Lhotex DIED! Yeah, he died, really!
00:54:01
Speaker
Well, what's I might have been like aging out during something awful as well. I'm not sure there. Yeah, I don't remember it at all 2000. Right. It just was the whole Internet nucleus like the comedy of the Internet was coming from there on Ebombs World on 4chan. It was all originating there.
00:54:22
Speaker
I would go there sometimes, but I wasn't like posting on... I mean, I wasn't posting on 4chan either. I was unfortunately involved. I mean, it cost $5, which at the time was like... I probably couldn't have joined from Australia, you know? I don't know how I would have paid that $5. Oh yeah, I wonder. I mean, I still lived in the national back then. Yeah. I still lived by two simple rules.
00:54:52
Speaker
I have never paid for access to anything on the internet and I refuse to.
Cartoonist's Creative Impact
00:54:58
Speaker
That is rule number one in my life. Rule number two is I'd never pay for parking. I will park a mile and a half away in Atlanta, Georgia and walk my ass to the fucking event that I'm going to and I will never pay for parking. Those are my two simple rules that I live by.
00:55:20
Speaker
Matt is a person of the strangest but most rigid principles. I think it's so charming. You know what I mean? What do you mean you're not going to pay for parking? It makes me furious every time I have to pay for parking because I'm like,
00:55:38
Speaker
You're taking my money. You're putting it nowhere. You're putting it into someone's pocket almost for certain in this city. And you want me to pay five dollars an hour. It's not even like DC. DC is like a quarter gets you eight minutes. I guess New York is insane, too. But I don't want to deal with that shit. We wouldn't pay for parking very often. Yeah, I can't. I mean, it would be pretty random paying for parking. I don't know when we would do it.
00:56:06
Speaker
I would just always get a ticket. I would know that I would have to pay for parking, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a car spot. Yeah, right. It's a car vibe. Yeah, yeah. So, Dick, you referred to your cell phone.
00:56:30
Speaker
You said a few minutes ago about, you know, kind of specializing in autobiographical comics early on. And now you're doing, you know, now you're doing fashion illustration, but also I, like part of the reason why Connor and I both love your artwork is because it's not super serious. And like, you know, you turn yourself and other people into cartoons, like a caricature.
00:57:02
Speaker
It's still auto bio, I think. Oh, yeah, totally, totally. Certainly. Because it's you, right? Right. Yeah. A lot of what you do is autobiographical. But but what is that like to turn yourself into a cartoon? Oh, it's fun. I don't know. I've been doing it for so long. It felt like the only way. You have the most blase answers. It's like it is a miracle, actually, that you are able to produce drawings that are good.
00:57:31
Speaker
right because a lot of people try to produce drawings and they are bad well you try for a long time yeah you've been out of your whole fucking life you're an artist back in the day i had like i mean i had a i had an auto bio comic that i used to put out i probably started it when i was in high school on my old website
00:57:54
Speaker
that that was just like me and my friends in that kind of webcomic era right like gag strips probably horrendous it's better that this stuff's unearthable you know i tried to find it it's gone it's gone i think a friend of mine has a cache my friend who had the server i think he has this has some cache of the server somewhere but it's okay i don't need to i don't need to re-dig this stuff up but
00:58:20
Speaker
You know, I probably made 150 strips back then. I used to put them out two or three times a week and they're all probably horrendous. But I've been doing autobiography comics for at least that long. And this guy thinks that they probably suck and they probably are good. You were a zine maker.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I discovered these and I was like, yeah, this is it. I could do this. But comics, I could do that. So yeah, scenes, comics. I mean, I was really pretentious in my high school. I think weren't we all weren't we all so. Yeah.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah, so I had like really long hair and I just I still ate meat, but I would get like veggie subs from Subway No, because I was like, okay. Oh the veggie delight Yeah veggies just salad like no Yeah It's like if you ever wanted to put a put like an entire green pepper onto a piece of bread that they may be made Yeah, we've got it's happening
00:59:23
Speaker
yeah it's like why like now that they're uh the meat is uncut yeah they have to slice it now those poor 16 year olds you know yeah yeah
00:59:36
Speaker
And they might, I mean, and Rahm Emanuel lost a finger at the Arby's. So it's dangerous. I've never been in the Arby's. That's in my future. Well, it will actually go ahead. I'll tell you, it's amazing. And then you can have the illusion, really. And you haven't been. I really haven't been. On foot, you can walk over there. Do you know this, though? It's a long walk. I can ride. Do you know this? It's a pun.
01:00:06
Speaker
Tell me. R.B.'s. I still don't know what the pun is. Roast beef. I don't get it. R.B.'s. R. Roast. Beef. R.B. It's very bad. That's the worst looking pun of all time. So call the pun is generous, but it is technically correct. That's actually a very Australian thing.
01:00:35
Speaker
Whereas to say the restaurant was called Arby's like like an R and then a B and then an S. Like like so we call McDonald's Macca's Macca's, which I love. I love Macca's. I call it Macca's. Then you go to Macca's and it says Macca's. It doesn't say McDonald's in Australia. It says Macca's on the wall everywhere, but there's definitely McDonald's. The sign just says Macca's.
01:01:04
Speaker
Well, I discovered Akadaka. Yeah. Amazing, amazing. And I think if it's true. No, I didn't know about Akadaka. Matt knew about Akadaka, which is ACDC, everyone with the Australian rock band. I thought everyone knew that. I didn't think that was even a. I don't.
01:01:24
Speaker
I don't know how I knew it. I feel like maybe I've had an Australian say that to me before, but like deep in my stupid fucking brain that the little person in my head found that in a filing cabinet. And I was like, Oh yeah, like I could not cut it. Okay.
01:01:40
Speaker
acted daca they played in my hometown in like 1977 terrible pub and my dad was there I have to say
01:01:55
Speaker
I don't know what it is with this week, but ACDC has come up in conversations that I have had, or like in various circumstances, basically every day for the past week. I don't know how I really, I mean, I like it some ACDC, but this just keeps fucking.
01:02:17
Speaker
maybe i just i'm not like crazy yeah like i enjoy them but like somehow acdc has come into my business every single fucking day this week and it's weird it's hard to have a voice it's just too silly i think yeah dude it's like radio birdman are way better than acdc for like australian bands oh yeah
01:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean they're out there they're playing we talked about we talked about silver chair on this I'm a huge silver chair fan in case that's not obvious At least frog stomp back. I kind of gave up. I kind of stopped caring after that. Yeah when there were teenagers That's cool. Yeah, dude, like, you know, you're fit shit down to you're 15 years old
01:03:04
Speaker
oh really crazy yeah okay that makes sense i got a lot like you're 14 and 15 riding pure massacre and shade which is fun fact the first guitar solo that i ever learned when i was like 16 wow or maybe 15 i don't remember but but yeah like australia has produced some fucking great bands a bunch of hardcore bands that like i played with over the years too um somehow
01:03:34
Speaker
So a question was either dodged or I didn't ask that I would like to get an answer for out of my personal life. Not necessarily my personal love. We try to be educational on the show. And so you an expert mixer of patterns and colors. How do you do it? Do you have like rules? Does stuff just look good to you? I think that's going to be your answer. But
01:04:01
Speaker
So for pattern mixing for clothing, right? When you're drawing somebody, do you say, I'm going to make this thing really colorful, bright pattern, and then everything else will be demure? Like, do you have a system? Do you just do it feels good?
01:04:22
Speaker
So it depends. It depends in a drawing. It depends on what the job is, you know, if it's for a client and they're paying me, I'll like just work it out. You know, I like work on it. Just do like a bunch of sketches. I like scan my black and white sketches in and then I do color tests digitally.
01:04:42
Speaker
Or with color pencils sometimes I come up with a color scheme before or sometimes they have things they want you to color Certain colors, and you draw to whatever they want you to draw, but yeah, if you have a bit more of a free rein Yeah, I have like a color palette that I've just kind of developed Accidentally you know not super intentionally
01:05:05
Speaker
And because I use watercolors, I've got like physical paints.
Thrifting & Fashion Philosophy
01:05:09
Speaker
And so they exist. So I can't really step outside of the colors that exist too far. Do you know what I mean? It's like a warm yellow that I really like. Yeah. Like, yeah. But I like primary colors. I like bright colors. I actually find I dress more like my cartoons now than I used to. Yeah. Dressed more somber once. And now because I like bright colors, because I think I like classic cartoons and comic books and stuff.
01:05:34
Speaker
I like bright, flat colors. I find that I dress more in bright, flat colors as well. It's a good way to dress. I think it's like, I don't know if you have, for example, like you have your brown corduroy jacket, but you have a yellow sweater, like that's a nice look, you know, you're not being too in your face. Even Celia, I think if you if you've made a drawing, you really think about it a lot.
01:06:00
Speaker
And then you're like, okay, I could wear like purple pants with like a plaid jacket. That's fine. It seems totally okay to me. So do you have stuff that you draw that you can't buy? Uh, not usually sometimes, but I have so many clothes. Yeah. How many, how many clothes do you have? You got two clothing racks, one clothing. Yeah. Two clothing racks. I've got two clothing racks. I mean, I thought there's a lot of clothes. It probably is a lot of clothes.
01:06:32
Speaker
I've got my suits in one closet takes up the whole thing. Yeah, most of my suits are on hangers by themselves and then jackets and stuff. I've got some stuff doubled up. Oh, yeah. I just doubled up on every hanger and I probably have 80 hangers. I've got an insane amount of shirts and then also doubled up. And then I've got like things folded.
01:06:58
Speaker
I, um, that's impressive because I limit myself to thrifting for the most part. Like I don't really buy stuff because I'm poor, you know, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like, uh, I feel like now I'm at a point like both of the clothing racks are full. If I add something, it would be wise to take away something.
01:07:23
Speaker
But I don't know how to play. How do you choose? How do you choose? I think that's a that's a that's a loser's game. It is a loser's game. It's definitely a loser's game. Losers. Yeah, it's the it's like the one joy having stuff like, are you joking? It's great. It's the one joy that our capitalist overlords allow us is to buy, buy, buy, baby. So nice to have all this stuff.
01:07:51
Speaker
and then you're like discovered again and you're like oh wow look at that shirt man i remember when i bought that shirt and i didn't wear it one time and i have not worn it the shirt is tight yeah and the shirt you were wearing yesterday yep yeah it's the agony of uh whatever it is i find too i'm in like a lucky
01:08:15
Speaker
Well, lucky I'm in like a position where because I worked in fashion now for so long in retail as well, as you know, in the other end of retail or whatever. I like a lot of friends that were clients or clients that are now friends. And I can like I do work for clothes, not always, but I can do work for clothes. So swaps.
01:08:38
Speaker
the trade barter system is is well and truly alive. Yes. So you can get stuff that I would feel very, I mean, ironically, I would probably sometimes ask for the same amount of money as like a new bespoke suit for something that I doing that they would give me a bespoke suit for. But if the money was never exchanged, it doesn't feel like it was exchanged. Does that make sense? Right? Yeah. If you're like,
01:09:05
Speaker
I'm not paying. It's like spending cash. And you're not paying thousands of dollars for this thing. So it's fine. Right, right. What's a little between friends? Yeah, yeah, exactly. What's a little, what's a little barter between compatriots? It's a treat. And then, so yeah, you just end up with cool clothes, clothes that you like.
01:09:27
Speaker
But thrifting is fun. Thrifting is such a treat. And I don't buy. I used to buy trash all the time. And now I just buy. I feel like I'm an expert thrifter. You guys are also probably expert thrifters. And I just love it. That's it. That's what I'm going to buy. But I know it when I buy it. I never think about stuff anymore or very rarely. Matt is definitely like I'm like, oh, that jacket is $350. That's a lot.
01:09:51
Speaker
for that jacket. But then you think, but it is a jacket I've been looking for. It's actually a good price. I'll just buy it. I buy it every time now. Every day, but every time I just because there's too many times I've gone back and it's been gone. And then you think about it for years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you have one? Do you have a thing that stands out to you? Sorry, Matt. Are you trying to say something? No, no, I like the white whale question.
01:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't have anything right now. So I have no white whales. Nothing that you're seeking? Nothing? Nothing? You can't have all that stuff and not be seeking a better version of at least one piece, right? Yeah, see what you're doing. I mean, I'm not like, you know, I'm not desperately, I'm not like on eBay every day looking for stuff. Right. Right. They've done something to eBay.
01:10:48
Speaker
that has made it way more compelling.
Retail Experiences & Elusive Finds
01:10:53
Speaker
I don't know what it is. Do you know what I'm talking about, Matt? I've always been a dude. I've been buying shit on eBay since I was in middle school. But now it's like, I'm looking for shit. I'm buying shit. I don't know. I'm very weird about buying stuff.
01:11:14
Speaker
I'm sorry. You talk about Ralph Lauren a lot. Everyone talks about Ralph Lauren, right? Yeah. Yes. This thing where I think that Ralph Lauren stuff, especially on the thrift store rack, I could pick it out now straight away. Totally. Totally. Yes. They look like the best plaids. They look like what you think a plaid shirt should look like. But like a real plaid shirt from the same era never looks as good as a Ralph Lauren plaid shirt from like 1999 because they do something. Their colors are better. Their cloths are amazing.
01:11:45
Speaker
Even if the fit's not right or whatever. But so. Yeah, I I just buy like a lot of Ralph Lauren stuff, I feel like, because it's it looks on the right program then, because we're going to change the name to the Ralph Lauren den, which like trousers. Yeah. Like on eBay, they're cheap, they're great quality, even brand new. You can buy them on sale.
01:12:09
Speaker
It's just the best story. It really is. We just did our contractually obligated Ralph Warren quotient for the show. Yeah, we're huge fans. I never worked there. I interviewed the manager of the
01:12:35
Speaker
Atlanta store was such a fucking like asshole to me about the job and I knew like five people that worked there that all recommended me and she was like yeah like your answers in the interview were not were not like up to par and I was like go fuck yourself dude I know more about Ralph than you could ever possibly wish to know and I can't sell it go fuck yourself
01:13:00
Speaker
Ah, very still salty about that. They made me work in the they made me work in the stock room at the J. Crew outlet. Because, yeah. And I was like, I was like, listen, I can sell this shit. I'm wearing this stuff. I know what it's about. But they did not like me for some reason. I don't know what the reason is. I can't think of any reasons. Reasons I work for myself.
01:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. Here it is. I have one. I have one. Well, it's not that big a white whale, but I've been looking for this for years. Like a Burberry trench, double breasted with the button in lining and the lining is the check. The lining is the plaid. So not a zip in liner, the button liner. Gotcha. And then it's got to have the pockets with the flaps, not the through pockets with the buttons. Do you know what I mean?
01:13:57
Speaker
You got all the cool details. It's with the flaps. I don't think they ever did a throat latch under the collar, but I would like a throat latch if they ever did that. Obviously, it has to have a belt. I don't care if it has the the patch on the chest or not, but what do you think about I was it. I worked for this haberdashery and we would get in weird shit sometimes. One of the weird things was like it was like a full wax cotton suit.
01:14:27
Speaker
Not like a business tailoring suit. It was like extreme bush clothing. It was like Orvis, but like apocalyptic Orvis.
01:14:44
Speaker
So I didn't know if that was like a common like Bush Bush guy outfit. Like here's my wax cotton dungarees. Do you know the jacket? There is there is one wax cotton jacket that is. Yeah, I know the jacket very well. The duster, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's by the brand is called Drizerbone. Yep. Huh.
Australian Fashion & Boots
01:15:07
Speaker
It's like big it's got big it's got like a big rain because it has the double yeah, it has exactly Yeah, exactly what I'm talking mom is where them and it's the I mean I was never around farms that much more than you guys maybe if you were never around farms at all, you know But I wasn't like on a farm every week or anything But I have a friend who grew up on a farm and he would say that the the shearers especially when they would come and
01:15:42
Speaker
Like the shorts just stop where your legs start. That's how shorts get short dark. And these guys wore them all year round and they would wear boots, shorts, and like probably a flannel shirt in cold, truly cold mornings. And then a fucking big drizer bone over the top, which is full mid-card length. Like almost. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you see like a bit of skin. The shin is showing. And it just looks like you're completely naked with boots on under this huge
01:15:55
Speaker
and in the winter, they would just wear stubbies, like the shortest shorts, shorter than your underwear, I'm sure.
01:16:13
Speaker
Why haven't you drawn this? I don't know. I don't think I have. Maybe I don't think I have. Can you draw this for one image? Yeah. The question is, what would you charge us for a commission of this soul before this episode of the podcast? Because that's the Apocalypse Duds mascot right there. Yeah. I'll just draw it. I'll draw it.
01:16:39
Speaker
All right, sick, sick. So this leads into my next question, which I had to ask because I love these and they are from Australia. I know. Were these, you know, this is going. Yes.
01:16:58
Speaker
okay uh bloodstones what how funny is it to you that like every motherfucker in new york owns a pair of bloodstones which i think are personally amazing fucking boots and i know there's there's an australian maker that still makes them in australia but they're ugly as sin um they're not quite the same i can't remember the brand
01:17:20
Speaker
Yeah Redback yeah, I have tried to buy and and tell myself that redbacks look and you know I know they're gonna be as comfortable. They're gonna be as cool as one stones wearing Every time I look at him. I'm like I can't fucking do it
01:17:38
Speaker
So how funny is it to you? How funny is it to you? That was the question. That was like one of the I don't think Australia is like a super stylish country necessarily. We've got some cool stuff or country. I mean, like the cities, I don't think the cities are that stylish necessarily compared to like, like I think New York is a great style city, of course. Everyone knows. Yeah, so I don't think I don't think Sydney is that good a style city. It's OK, but it's not that good. But Bluntstones were very popular with the art school kids.
01:18:09
Speaker
Always, always popular. No, I didn't like them because everyone wore them. That's how popular they were. And probably my whole I went to art school twice. I went once in like 2004 and I dropped out and then I went again in 2014.
01:18:25
Speaker
and I finished, but Bloodstones were popular the whole time throughout the year. Definitely popular in the 2014 and like really cute girls would wear bloodstones. Like they do now, like they do now. But no one else was wearing them back then. It was like only art school girls wore bloodstones and they'd like clump around in the ceramics studio or whatever. But
01:18:50
Speaker
It was fun to see what I considered an Australian art school staple migrate to America somehow. Almost the exact same time I moved over here, it felt like they existed and were pretty popular by 2014 when I moved here. Does that sound right? It was probably a few years before that.
01:19:27
Speaker
yeah around that time so you could they were probably like exporting them more you know yeah they were they were set like on sale and they were like 120 bucks you know whatever and like i wore those they were like 60 dollars in Australia in 2015 60 Australian dollars right tax included yeah i want to pay 40 bucks
01:19:36
Speaker
maybe people like going to Australia.
01:19:51
Speaker
It's like it's like 40 American dollars. Yeah, I wore my pair. So like I have never seen the more destroyed pair of one stones than the ones that I sadly threw away when I moved last year. And like some dude, they were I mean, I wore those impossible things.
01:20:10
Speaker
I probably wore them at least three quarters of the days in a year at some point or another for almost nine years. And they were just toasted. But I can't bring myself to pay retail for a pair now. And I wish I could. Yeah, they're like $200 now, right? Yeah, they're like $200. That's why I haven't bought a pair. Because everyone has them, and they're expensive. I mean, they're fucking fantastic.
01:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, they seem tight. My cousin is a UN guy and he goes to places on earth that are dirty, at least, and messy. And he swears by the blowing stone. They're real. I mean, do you know RM Williams? I do, I do. I was going to mention this. They're fucking incredible.
01:21:03
Speaker
Yeah, really, like that's really like everyone wears those shoes. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like you say, everyone wears Bluntstones, which they kind of do. But in Australia, like I am Williams became they weren't really when I lived there. They were popular. But again, just amongst the saddle friggers and their dads. This, um.
01:21:24
Speaker
But and I mean, I think it's a cool brand. I always liked it. And I always had a pair because I like kind of playing country in the city a little bit. Yeah, that's a weird thing. They're very popular now. They're very, very popular. Like, yeah, like that's like the prime minister would wear them. It's like the only dress shoe. They're like the penny loafer of Australia. Truly. And it's not not considered like a cowboy shoe. They're just like a dress shoe.
01:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, you look like a cowboy. They just think, oh, you're just wearing your RMs. That's just a shoe. That's like a nice shoe. And no one would have any other nice shoes, only the RMs.
Australian Culture & Wildlife
01:22:04
Speaker
I have a vintage acquaintance in Australia. He may be in Brisbane, but he is a vintage collector. I definitely don't know him. Yeah, maybe. Probably not. Or maybe.
01:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, but he has a collection, you know, that he posts and like he buys and sells too, but he posts a lot of like old vintage like RM Williams stuff and like when he buys shit that was made in Australia, and you know, various other other clothing that was produced there, like it's so cool to me to see that because like, you know, I know RM Williams, I know Blonestone, I really have no other like
01:22:48
Speaker
Connection to things that are made in Australia, but like there's a cool shit that that has been over the years Yeah, the other thing is this t-shirt by an underwear company called bonds with a D bond. Okay the ONDS And it's just like a ring of tea like a tight ring of tea. Oh
01:23:07
Speaker
but they were like very popular. Bonds Tees were like the classics. So if you see any Australian band, especially in that 70s, 80s period, but through the 90s, everything, maybe not in the 90s when shirts were really baggy, but everyone was wearing bonds tees. Oh, that's cool. Raglan sleeve, raglan. Ooh. And people would like print stuff on them. Right. It's like a real classic. And they were always made in Australia until, you know, the 2010s or something.
01:23:35
Speaker
Right. Man, I'm going to have to stick one of these out. Yeah. Skin tight. And you see, like, the fattest old man wearing, like, a yellow one. Big belly. Little shorts. Big socks, long socks, knee-high socks. Little dress shoes. Cute, man. Tucked in. Wow. Cyclops.
01:23:58
Speaker
So I was going to talk about Waltzing Matilda, but I'm not going to. I think it's an amazing song. Well, it's amazing that the unofficial national anthem of a country is this song about this kind of bad-ass guy who kills himself to escape being pursued by the pigs.
01:24:23
Speaker
You know, and it's like in America, we don't have songs like the end of that song. You only sing the first verse and then you just let it. Right. I mean, that's right. That's that is not so different than the Star Spangled Banner, which no one knows every like that. No one ever knows the second verse of any national anthem. Right. Yeah. And then we killed them because we wanted to. Yeah, that's what it's all about. So the last thing I was going to say
01:24:54
Speaker
Amazing slang, very rich, very clever stuff. I was reading some examples and I was thinking, is this Australian payback for years of penal servitude that we're all saying in the same slang terms like they're real, like quote Tucker for meal?
01:25:15
Speaker
Have you got any others? I think I was reading your comics with everyone speaking with an English accent, and now I'm reading them with an Australian accent, and I like it a lot better. I forget. I mean, I know a lot. Because I don't want to be like you, the one Australian person I've ever talked to in my life, but it's like you are a clever person, and so I'm sure you have good slang.
01:25:42
Speaker
You're our one Australian friend. There's a lot of- I asked my Australian friend about this interview actually to prep for this interview because I was like I want to really brag him about some shit. Did he get any good slang? From Alex. Alex is a PhD at Johns Hopkins. Extremely smart, very clever. No slang. He didn't give up any slang. He said that well we could talk about the
01:26:11
Speaker
voice vote you know that's where that came from of course so like he uh approved the intro so well i think the the best one and an english guy told me this but i'm pretty sure it's australian but i i remember learning learning it from an english guy is we're not here to fuck spiders that's a class we are not here to fuck spiders wow wow so that's the title that's the title of the episode
01:26:39
Speaker
yeah we're not here to fuck spiders which are comically massive in australia from my very arachnophobic maybe you could maybe you could but yeah maybe you could there's no way we're here i i don't want to i don't want to dip into tropes about australia it seems like a beautiful country i would love to see it one day um i think they're all true
01:27:03
Speaker
The 9,000 hour flight seems dangerous. Actually, I was there one year ago. Everyone has mullets. Not ironic. You know how people have mustaches now? Not ironic. We all had ironic mustaches in the late 2000s. Now, everyone has mustaches. Their mustaches are somehow, they graduated from being ironic to just being something that they had and now they look good.
01:27:29
Speaker
You agree? I mean, I can have a mustache now. Totally. Yeah, you definitely have a mustache. You couldn't have a mustache unless you're a baseball player. Or my father that has been rocking a mustache since the late 70s. And when he shapes it, he looks so weird that multiple times in my life, my mom has been like, you got to grab that back. You look weird. Yeah, so he makes kids cry.
01:27:58
Speaker
It makes kids cry. Like if the dad shaves off the mustache, the kid is like, oh, who's this person? Right, exactly. Pretty different. I mean, I'm right, though. And I mean, I wish I could have a mustache, but mine is bifurcated. It's pretty wicked. It's pretty wicked. Yeah. It's bullshit. Yeah. So I mean, I'm going to do like that now. Molot, scurly, unironic. Everyone has a mullet. Not a fashion mullet, just a mullet. Everyone has a real mullet. Everyone has them. They're not.
01:28:24
Speaker
I mean, they're they're coolish, but it's just a it's a truly I was like now that everyone has them. It's wack. It's like no, no, it's cool. It's good. Not because I come back here and I'm like, oh, wow, that's really like really looks like I'm in Australia. You know, everyone's got mullets. It's like this is sick. You know, I'll grow my hair out a bit longer in the back now. Well, I've got it. I mean, let's do it. You just got to cut the sides back a bit. Yeah, yeah. You got to you got to.
01:28:53
Speaker
You have to get the party equally distributed. It can be party front, party back, your choice. Party everywhere. Party everywhere. I'm sorry. Oh, no, no. I was just going to say, I am an animal person. I love animals. I am vegan, as we discussed earlier.
01:29:14
Speaker
The insanity of animals and insects and various non-human life from Australia solely makes me never want to visit Australia ever. Yeah. I would go. Yeah, I would go. If a snake kills me, then that would be appropriate. I don't want to see the biggest spot. St. Patrick's Day revenge.
01:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, they are around, you know, the snakes are around. Oh, yes. Like it's not. Yeah, especially in the summer where I grew up in the summer. There are a lot of brown snakes like the most deadly snake. There are a lot like you see them, you know, not every day. But if I was like when I was walking to work, like we were saying earlier, through the paddocks, hopping. Definitely. Sometimes they like lay out on the clay in the sun and you can see like sometimes dozens of them.
01:30:08
Speaker
Maybe I redacted the idea of it doesn't you see big? Yeah Spiders that that kill it for me like if I saw a spider in person the size that I've seen in some videos from Australia I would simply just like like as big as your hand bigger than your head Well, it's like you don't want a pussing abscess from any reason That I'm right
01:30:36
Speaker
Yeah, big ones don't, but there are passing abscess givers. There's that. Have you seen that little guy? He lives only on the East Coast near Sydney and my skin is traveling. Yeah. We have good names for them too. He like lays lays it. He lays the fuck in his web on the ground.
01:30:58
Speaker
so that you can feel it when someone gets near it and then he builds a little hole in the ground and then he builds a perfectly camouflaged roof yeah he pops up out of the roof and attacks and then pops back down i feel something very on my back right now fuck all the fuck off like yeah thank you dick for showing me it's not that bad it's not that bad i like you say this as someone you just kill them
01:31:24
Speaker
Yeah, oh god damn it. I'm gonna have a nightmare about that tonight. Just get an axe and you cut the snake in half. Yo, if there's a spider with WD-40... You call your uncle, I mean you're probably on your uncle's farm if you're seeing a brown snake anyway, and you say, Trent, there's a brown snake, go and get the shotgun, and he goes to all the different parts where the shotgun are, he puts the gun together, and then he goes and shoots the snake.
01:31:52
Speaker
It's a trick. I have never been a snake to bite the dogs. No, no. I have never been convinced that that's feathers. Australia is the southeast of the the rest of the world. I'm fully convinced because this is the scenario that would happen truly on on some any role in the city. You could just live in the city, right? Yes. Yeah, the city. The city is where this works.
01:32:19
Speaker
There are some, there are still big cockroaches and stuff. Yeah, cockroaches and New York rats, you don't have to kill with an axe. Rats, really big rats.
Podcast Wrap-Up & Social Media
01:32:32
Speaker
Pussing abscess. Have you seen how big the lizards are? Yeah, anyway.
01:32:39
Speaker
Dick, thank you so much. This has really been a pleasure. I knew that it would be pretty good. Sorry, we were rambling. No, we went on so many tangents that is kind of what the show is about on a sub level. Yeah, it was hilarious and definitely one of the funnier episodes that we've had. So, Connor and I are mostly funny people, so, you know.
01:33:06
Speaker
we uh we appreciate you coming on um we always like to give the guest a chance to shout out what they want to so have at it i have no shout outs no shout what what is your what is your website what is your instagram handle where can people see your see your work my website is dick carol.com c-a-r-o-l-l and my instagram is dick
01:33:34
Speaker
period like a dot carol awesome ca double double yeah easy i finally got that i finally got that url this year oh nice right nice gotta gotta be after this i owned it for a million years but now i got it of course yeah well yeah everyone go follow dick and uh check out his uh fucking fantastic artwork keep up with him um
01:34:01
Speaker
Of course, once again, thanks for coming on. If you have questions, comments, concerns, apocalypse studs at gmail.com at apocalypse studs on Instagram. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. Cheerio. Bye.