Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Kickflipping Into the Abyss with Pete Anderson
74 Plays1 year ago
This week, our guest is writer and dresser extraordinaire, Pete Anderson. We discuss the menswear scene in Washington, D.C., precious clothing memories, buying records down the Jersey Shore, and more sacred knowledge.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Pete Anderson
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. Welcome to Apocalypse Duds. Today we are joined by writer, editor, adult skateboarder, menswear take generator, and more. Here's Pete Anderson. Among the other Pete Anderson's, we had a hard time looking you up, so this is your intro. There's like a relatively well-known, I think, country guitar player. Pete Anderson? Yeah, it's hard for me to differentiate myself from him.
00:00:27
Speaker
He was the first person that came up and I think he played for Dwight Yoakum at one point, who I absolutely love, but I do not know this dude from Adam. So I was just like, okay, this is gonna be harder than I thought. I have a Pete Anderson tour t-shirt somewhere in my archives that's fun to wear. How's everything going today?
00:00:52
Speaker
It's going pretty well. Happy to be here with y'all chatting on a Friday afternoon. Yeah, thank you for coming on. And it's going to be a fun conversation, I think. And I don't know. I've followed you for so long that it's like, oh, cool. I get to know what his voice fucking sounds like. Right? Yeah, that was one of the things with Zach when we interviewed him. I was like, you do not sound anything like I would have imagined.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I was expecting like a very deep, gravelly kind of voice. And I was like, okay, all right. It can be tough to follow people for a long time online and communicate with them and everything, but it's not always in person. So yeah, that's yeah, totally. I'm not a big fan of voice messages either. Yeah, well, it is 2023. Yeah.
Life in Maryland
00:01:45
Speaker
All right, so we're gonna get into a little section we call ASL as a throwback, but we really only care about ANL. So how old are you and where are you from? I'm 42 years old and I live in Maryland, just outside of Washington DC in Silver Spring, Maryland. And I've been in Maryland for most of my adult life now, but I grew up west of Philadelphia.
00:02:14
Speaker
OK, gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, that's a nice little central Atlantic jaunt for your life. Yeah, I haven't really gone too far. I mean, I'm all within like a two or three hour radius from where I grew up. Yep.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's a little bit like why leave, you know, it makes me think like having seen other places when the when the guys who are like getting started with this country found this place found Maryland, they were like, this is going to be the fucking place forever. And they were kind of right. Like, it's very beautiful, at least from a natural standpoint, extremely beautiful. I appreciate your Maryland pride.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, dude, I'm well, I'm fucking only Maryland, like I grew up in Annapolis around Annapolis, and then I moved to Baltimore. So I have been here my entire life. And I am extremely, extremely. I love Baltimore. Yeah, Baltimore is terrific. Yeah. I've been a handful of times like playing shows there, but I've never really gotten to hang out in Baltimore. But like,
00:03:22
Speaker
You mean? Well, not yet. Not yet. Not yet. It will happen probably this year, but you know, like that has always seemed like a pretty similar place to Atlanta. And so like, I think I can, I can dig it and get down with it. Also Philly is one of my favorite like cities that I've ever been to. And so, you know, there's a, there's something in the water up there, I guess.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, I love Philadelphia. I always feel bad because I don't know it that much as an adult. So it's a very special place in my heart. Totally. But I can't make a restaurant recommendation to save my life in Philadelphia. Same here, man. The two cheesesteak spots that I always used to go to when we were playing up there, they had vegetarian cheesesteak. And so I think they're both closed now. But that was about it.
Fashion Beginnings
00:04:16
Speaker
So since we are a clothing show, we have a little feature. The Ensemble investigation, other names for it are trademarked, so we don't use them. And so we were going to ask you to run through what are you wearing? What are you wearing today, as they say? Top down, bottom up, really your choice. Well, I'm in my house right now, so I'm not wearing shoes.
00:04:45
Speaker
Earlier today, when I left the house, I was wearing a pair of Clark's crepe sword shoes. I think they're the Redlands model, like dark brown suede with like a crepe that runs up kind of over the toe and up the... Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, kind of hippie boot kind of thing. Yeah, for sure. I've got a pair of pants. They're kind of peanut butter colored, herringbone, cotton fabric with cargo pockets.
00:05:14
Speaker
and pleats from the brand Manresa. Damn, I'm looking that up because that sounds great. Yeah, they're nice. He does kind of like limited drops. I'm not like trying to say that you can't get them. I'm just, he does a lot of turnover in stock. So good brand though. I got a Chambre Polo Ralph Lauren Western shirt on.
00:05:37
Speaker
And when I was outside earlier, I had like, uh, like a barn jacket, hunting jacket, uh, old, uh, I hesitate to call it vintage, but it's probably vintage polo with like an exploded, exploded tartan kind of, um, wow. And, uh, I had a baseball cap on, I had a black stoozy new era on outside. I'm gonna welcome the dog earlier. So it's a competitive outfit. Yeah. It kind of checks a bunch of boxes.
00:06:05
Speaker
for like our general interests. What's the weather bike up there right now? It's been a, you know, for winter, it's not too bad. It's a little muddy. I think muddy is like a weather descriptor, but it's been- Stand down here. Yeah, chilly, windy, not miserable though, not too bad. Okay, yeah, yeah. So I think on this episode, this is our inaugural rolling out of this next question.
00:06:33
Speaker
But what is your earliest clothing memory? That's a nice open-ended question. I guess I could name a lot of things, but when I think of that, I think of a particular item. I don't know exactly how old I was, but I must have been pretty young, like five or six probably. I had a red hoodie, a red hooded sweatshirt that I really loved.
00:06:59
Speaker
And I wanted to wear it like all the time. And I don't, I can't even picture it really, but I know what it was and I can still kind of remember what it felt like if that makes any sense. Right. Zip up. Did you say? No, there's a pullover pullover like kangaroo pocket kind of hooded sweatshirt. And I remember I used to argue with my mom a lot about it because I like to wear it like with no shirt underneath. I just like to wear the hoodie. Yeah.
00:07:24
Speaker
And she was always like, the point of it is a layer, you know? But, you know, I remember as a kid being not really picky about clothes, but kind of sensitive to how they felt. So I remember that particular hoodie wanted to wear that as much as I possibly could, which obviously couldn't be every day. Right, right. That's awesome though. I mean, I grew up loving hoodies in high school and shit too. Like, it was one of those things that was just like,
00:07:53
Speaker
like a security blanket in a way? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Final shirts. Yeah, same. Final shirts also. We had to tuck our shirts in in high school, but we didn't have like a dress code or anything, but that's part of the reason I learned some of these because I could just wear a t-shirt underneath it and not really have to worry about tucking it in. Right. So, and wait, did you say you didn't, you don't really know how old you were with that?
00:08:21
Speaker
I mean, I was pretty little. Like I said, I think maybe like five or six years old. So I'm trying to think of like what houses I lived in and where my memories of it are. I think I couldn't have been older than six. Gotcha, gotcha. So that's, you know, that's a little kid's day. Oh, totally, totally. But I mean, it sticks out in your mind. So it obviously had an impact. Oh, I thought about it. Yeah, totally. Yo, you're ahead of the vintage curb these days, because, you know, that shit was probably sun fading. I'm sure it was.
00:08:52
Speaker
by the time I was done with it anyway. Right, right, exactly. So did you realize at some point that you liked clothing more than most people or more than your peers at some point? How did you get into clothing, I guess is the question. Yeah, I think I was pretty keenly aware of
00:09:20
Speaker
you know, as you grow up and you kind of like find your interests and find your peer groups, I think I was pretty aware of kind of like clothing and kind of tribal identities as you kind of separate yourself out with peers. So I think I was pretty aware of that relatively early and certainly by middle school. And I know that's not like, that doesn't necessarily make you special to like be aware of what people are wearing in middle school.
00:09:47
Speaker
You know, I was into something, some subculture stuff at that point. Like I spent most summers at my grandmother's house at the Jersey shore. Yeah, there was kind of a skate and surf culture down there. And I'm not a surfer. I'm not going to try to claim the claim to that. I'm a total Benny. If people from New Jersey might, or, you know, it's basically just New Jersey poser. So I was a,
00:10:15
Speaker
which is like kind of a through line through, I think my middle school and high school life is being a kind of a poser. But I think I was aware of that stuff. Like I knew down, like I would go skateboarding down there with other kids and I, you know, you wanted to have vans. I don't think I was really particular about brands at that point, but I kind of knew the vibes you were looking for. And I was like, you know, at the time. Yeah, exactly. Plaid shorts, you know, big white t-shirt or some kind of surf t-shirt.
00:10:44
Speaker
Um, that was, that was kind of what you wanted to wear in the summer down there. So that's, that's, I think that when I like can imagine, can, when I think back on like when did I first like think like, well, I want to wear X. I want to get clothes from the surf shop. Um, cause that's what seems cool to me. Right. Um, but otherwise like, how did I get into clothes? I also, uh, I think Matt, I think it was you mentioned you had to tuck your shirt in. I went to, um,
00:11:13
Speaker
all boys Catholic school, high school, I went to Catholic school all the way through. So I was always wearing tucked in shirt and a tie from like second grade up. So I was pretty comfortable with that, even though I wouldn't say I liked it. That wasn't something I wanted to wear in middle school or even high school, but in high school we had a, it wasn't a uniform, it was just code. So you just had to wear
00:11:38
Speaker
you know, not jeans, a tucked in shirt of some sort and a tie, and sometimes jackets, sometimes a sweater in high school. So that was kind of the first time I think I remember like thinking about clothes, those kind of clothes. And it wasn't like I was trying to dress up. I mean, most of what we were trying to do, my friends and I back then was like trying to dress it down. So like we were trying to get away with wearing bands and you could wear like
00:12:06
Speaker
suede vans with black souls and they counted as dress shoes and nobody would give you a hard time. But like we were wearing like, you know, thrift store corduroys and flannel shirts with a tie because like that meant the
00:12:19
Speaker
Right, right. You're trying to skirt the rules. My mom volunteered at a thrift shop in the neighborhood back then, so we would pretty regularly get stuff from there that I could wear to school. And I would go to the thrift shop every once in a while and pick that stuff up. So I had a pretty early introduction to that kind of vintage shopping. Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm right there with you.
00:12:46
Speaker
I think I started thrifting when I was 12 and I had like a BMX helmet that I really wanted and they were, you know, expensive if you ordered one from somewhere, but I was like, oh.
00:12:57
Speaker
I can find this shit at a thrift store. Like this is gnarly. I got these Jeff Rowley ski shoes. Yeah. And my dad is a notorious tightwad, but he like bought them for me $9, whatever it was. And I was like, holy shit. Like these shoes cost $100 and here I am getting them for a single digit.
00:13:21
Speaker
That's a good deal. Probably had some good shoes too. I don't know what the official name of it was. I think it was his second or third band signature shoe. I wanted those so bad just because they looked so cool. Compared to everything else in the early 2000s, late 90s, I was like, oh, these are dope. Yeah, those were good shoes.
00:13:50
Speaker
I know he had vegan cheese back then. He's kind of done a 180 on that at this point. Yeah, it's okay. It was a very interesting time for sneakers. I'll leave it at that. So, Pete, you mentioned your skateboarder. What other kind of outside influences did you
Influence of Music and Subcultures
00:14:16
Speaker
or I guess have you had over the years, like music or films and things like that that kind of influence your style and your excitement about clothing? Yeah, I think music is probably kind of a through line through my, you know, I think that, again, I think high school and college is like a really, not that I dress now like I dress then, but I think that's like when you become aware of the, at least when I became aware of like,
00:14:46
Speaker
how people are using it to express themselves. And again, like how they're kind of sorting themselves out by clothing. And high school was such, I mean, music was like the most important part of my life. Like we, as pretty, pretty young, my friends and I were able and allowed to go into Philly and go down to like South street and hit the record shops there and repo records out in Bryn Mawr too was like really
00:15:17
Speaker
formative and important place where we got lots of lots of different music. And you kind of, you know, look at that stuff or go to shows. And even back then, this is like, early mid 90s, I was 14 or 15, probably you, you know, you kind of borrow from some of the aesthetics and some of those, and sometimes those stores are also selling the aesthetic too. So like, right. Yeah.
00:15:41
Speaker
Zipperhead and Philly was a place that sold like, you know, double rider jackets and then you'd get like Doc Martens and crass t-shirts and stuff down there if you wanted to. So, you know, it was time for me to like, I tried on a lot of those different styles. Some of them worked for me and some of them didn't, but you know, you discover music and you get into it and you go to shows and you borrow something from something from that. So that was really,
00:16:10
Speaker
really influential to me. So, and that could mean like, you know, being really into pavement for a while and like wearing thrift store Western shirts from the 70s or whatever. And, and that was, that was, you know, a cool look or like old soccer knees or whatever, or, or wearing some more really kind of punk rock stuff or getting into hardcore, like 90s hardcore. And, and it's just, it's also funny, just looking back on the, on the errors, because
00:16:39
Speaker
I remember getting into like, you know, youth crew hardcore and like probably, probably like 1995 or 96, when I was a teenager. And like thinking that the Gorilla Biscuits were like a hundred years old. Right, right. When Really Sip was probably like a decade older than New Work. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And all that stuff, all the music came out in like the late 80s, you know what I mean? And we weren't really that far. Right.
00:17:05
Speaker
past that so um uh but you know that that kind of that was easier to that stuff was largely easier to wear and also like more socially acceptable um in a way like you know i i had uh i you know i'll confess i had some jinkos too back then but didn't we yeah but um you know wearing a hoodie whether it was a band hoodie or just like a plain hoodie or some other kind of vintage hoodie and some some um
00:17:35
Speaker
you know, jeans or camouflage pants and skate shoes. You know, that's, that's an easy thing to wear. And, you know, you know, it's kind of a winking thing. Like you and other kids might know that you're, you know, nodding to being into 10 yard fight or whatever, but. Right. Yeah. Cause I mean, back then fans weren't like super, super well distributed too. And so like, you know, in the,
00:18:04
Speaker
mid 90s or whatever you know like if you saw someone wearing bands or like chucks too you were kind of like oh you're you're into something cool right right that's and that's you know i all this stuff when i look back on i think about it it's just crazy to think of um kind of the pre-internet nature right of how that stuff got communicated and i know
00:18:28
Speaker
You know, it's pretty common to say like, oh, well somebody's older brother or something, you know, new. And that's how you knew I should wear bands or I should wear chucks or something. Cause like you just, you just found that. And that is true, but I still look back on, I'm just like, I'm not quite sure. Like we had a couple of people around, like we had some, some cool like punk rock kids in my high school who, who were like, you know, you'd look at the bands written on their backpack or whatever. And like, they were, they were the influencers, you know, they were the tastemakers.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah. The one guy in my high school, Eric Peterson was in the band, the orphans, and then he was kind of a big folk punk guy in Philadelphia for a while. And like, you know, if something was Eric endorsed, it was, you know, it was cool. He passed away a few years ago, but he, he was a really, really, really cool dude. And you, you learn a lot from those, those kinds of guys when they're around. Totally. Yeah. We, we all had that like in, in one way, shape or form. Sure.
00:19:27
Speaker
or maybe we were that to other people that were younger than us, you know? I guess it's possible. I wrote a lot of crap in my backpack too. So, okay. We've got the hardcore, we've got the Jersey Shore. Did you ever see floor punch at the shore? I did not ever see floor punch at the shore. I saw like floor punch merchandise and records and stuff down there. I mean, it was,
00:19:53
Speaker
The record store in the town where I went down there, Manisquan, New Jersey, always had a funny selection. I mean, they always had like Bouncing Souls stuff, because they were kind of has very part. They always have the e-town concrete stuff, which is funny. And there's like a handful other like Jersey Long Island bands that always have stuff. But yeah, no, I never saw, I don't think I ever saw Floor Punch at all. Sorry, sorry to just point.
00:20:21
Speaker
If it happened, it was gonna be such a magical, like, coming together of things all in one place, but nah, nah. So, do you, you know, in your day-to-day life, do you tend to plan your outfits? Sort of, you know, I don't, like, think about the,
00:20:47
Speaker
It was probably as unsophisticated, but you know, I really do probably organize them around like a specific item I'd like to wear. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, me too. I'm it's not like the question is not to say like, do you plan your outfits very detailedly in a very detailed way? And if you don't, you suck. Like, I just want to know, like, how does it come to you? You know, you put something together today that was good. Mm hmm.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think about it sometimes, I think about cooking. I love to cook, but I'm not necessarily a really creative person when it comes to cooking. I can follow a recipe, I can modify a recipe. I'll do it and the next time I make it, I'll be like, well, I didn't like this so much, I'll tweak.
00:21:38
Speaker
the human or whatever, you know? And I think I'm a little bit that way of addressing too that I'm not like the most creative original person, but I can tell when things kind of work. So like if I want to wear, like today I wanted to wear that polo jacket. It felt like it was the right weather for it and it's a cool jacket. So it's like, well, what can I wear that kind of works in that context? And I don't want to be like a, you know, free and easy flat lay photograph, like just like a perfect deal.
00:22:07
Speaker
everything fits together exactly. And then you, cause then you have to like change your vibe anytime you want to change or like wear a particular thing that's, that's from, but I do think the, you know, very general, like Americana, that's like such an overused word, but like that, that stuff all plays pretty well with itself, you know, with each other, those kinds of pieces. So I think you can wear, you can wear that kind of stuff together. I know it was like a joke a couple of years ago to be like, oh, that person wears engineer garments like J. Crew, you know? And,
00:22:37
Speaker
I like to wear energy garments like J. Crew. I feel like that works. Those kind of things, there's a reason that you can sometimes wear ALD stuff with Ralph Lauren, with J. Crew, with vintage. It all kind of works together. Yeah, it kind of all plays off of the same shit. So why wouldn't you mix and match that kind of stuff?
00:23:04
Speaker
Some people probably say it's a little tired, but that's still kind of my wheelhouse. So that's where I am. EG is one of my favorite brands ever just because everything is so damn comfortable. And like, I mean, I wear, you know, mostly vintage because I sell vintage, but like engineer garments has always had that kind of feel that I get from like a vintage pair of fatigue pants. Like, you know, it's not trying to like reinvent the wheel. It's just doing its thing.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's always a good vibe with engineer garments. So I still wear a lot of engineer garments, too. But yeah, when I'm planning an outfit, it's usually I pick one thing, whether it's a pair of shoes or a shirt. I mean, it's often outerwear, especially in the colder months. And then I just try to figure out what else. And I wear a lot of the same stuff. I mean, truthfully, I wear a lot of the same stuff all the time. And I usually seasonally have either one or two
00:24:02
Speaker
outfits that like just they just become the the outfit of the season because it's easy to re-aware them. I see. Yeah, yeah definitely. Well and I think that
00:24:17
Speaker
talking about those brands. And I don't want to like whatever, I am no expert, but I do think that they are, with maybe the exception of J-Crew, like flipping something that is traditional, like that is the ALD thing that for a long way has been Ralph. So I think that it makes sense. They're a little counter-cultural themselves. So I was going to ask,
00:24:45
Speaker
There seems to be a correlation between membership in these subcultures, you know, your skaters, your hardcore kids, punk kids, metal, etc.
00:25:00
Speaker
Why do you think these people are drawn to menswear after a while? It seems kind of antithetical, right? For like a punk to be into tailored clothing. But I mean, I know, blah, blah, blah, that's in there too. But anyway, we were wondering what you thought about that, if anything.
Subcultures and Menswear
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, I do think it's really interesting. And I do, I've seen what you're talking about. I think a lot of, it's always funny when you talk to people at menswear and then eventually you find out you have other things in common and music is a common denominator. I think, so I think music is one of them. And I think, as I think I was kind of referring to earlier, I think that people are, people know how people dress to fit into a certain crowd or a certain crew. And I think like that's,
00:25:49
Speaker
other people who aren't into those subcultures or don't care or don't want to signal to other people what they're into might be kind of ignorant of those sometimes subtle uniform signals, whatever you want to call it. So I think that's just like people gravitate toward, people who are into that stuff are often aware of those kinds of things. And I think as they get more into it, they might
00:26:19
Speaker
gravitate towards that as they grow up and make their way in the world. They just kind of know about it and they see it in other non-subcultural things too. You talk about tailoring, there are punks who get into tailoring and there's mods and things like that that have a tailoring tradition and
00:26:44
Speaker
I think people see that, and they might be attracted to that, and also the music's good, so I'll try that out for a while. So I think that's the common denominator. People are just very aware of how clothing speaks for them, and what it can say to other people, and what it can say about you, other than, I think traditionally we think about clothing, like what does clothing say for people who care about clothing? And a lot of it is economical, right? A lot of it is like, I'm signaling that I have a lot of money, or I have more money than you, or I can have.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah, or that. In my case, in my case, I'll spend it myself. Well, I think the clothing I wear, considering the amount of money I've spent on it over the years, probably truly signals that I have less than I should, less money than I should. More money than since. Yeah, it's bad. It's very bad. But that's my kind of gut take on that, is I think that if you're into those kind of things, if you're into those scenes, especially as they like, like I said, I went through a bunch of different
00:27:45
Speaker
musical identifications and looks in high school and college and I think that a lot of that's pretty common for a lot of people but there's some things that stick with you and I think people kind of take that into adulthood and they're just more aware of that than your average person.
00:28:07
Speaker
It's about, yeah, it is about like attention to detail to a certain extent, not in my case, but I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people are like attuned to certain, you look at some of the like menswear people, the way that they analyze, like the fit of a suit, they really, really, really are picking up on the fine, fine details. Absolutely. And if you go back, not to, I'm trying to think of like specific examples.
00:28:37
Speaker
And I'm gonna bring online menswear into this by saying there's a, I assume it's still there, a thread on style form. I don't know what it's called. It used to be like mod the skin head or skin head to mod or something. Oh yeah, there's like, I think like three or four different, three or four different like threads. Like it's reached its peak that many times.
00:29:05
Speaker
Right. And so there's a lot of interest there. And, um, you know, the people who are in that thread are like their own community. Like it's, they're not even like reading the forum. They just exist on that thread. It's like their shared blog or whatever, whatever you have. And you just, you mentioned attention to detail and it's like, there's people on that thread who were there in the late sixties. Um, and there's people on the thread and they'll post, that's a great place for like to find pictures of that kind of stuff because those people aren't posting those pictures in other places. Um,
00:29:35
Speaker
And there's people in the thread who got into it in the last 10 years or whatever, and they can share knowledge and awareness, but that attention to detail, it's like, your Levi's had to be cuffed exactly X inches or centimeters. And I remember fucking measuring. I remember measuring my shit. Like, why the fuck did I do that? Yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
Because that's the right thing to do. That's the uniform. That's the acceptable number. The American Psycho quote, because I want to fit in. That is the whole satire of the thing, which, of course, you'd sort of turn into a caricature of yourself. So we were going to get into hashtag menswear
00:30:28
Speaker
first by asking where were you when that really took off in the 2008 to 2012 period?
Blogging and Writing Career
00:30:37
Speaker
I know you just mentioned Style Forum, of course Tumblr very, very big at this time. Yeah, the years kind of run together. So I'm sure I have my timeframes mostly off. I was on Style Forum really early. So just to relate it back to a question you asked earlier about like, you know, growing up in personal style,
00:30:58
Speaker
I went to college in Maryland. Connie might be familiar with Washington College on the Eastern Shore. It's a little tiny liberal arts school. But it's kind of like preppy adjacent. It's a little preppy. It's surrounded by cornfields. There's somewhat moneyed area.
00:31:20
Speaker
the eastern shore can be anyway yeah well that's the story of another podcast because it's definitely a haves and have nots situation over there it's not particularly
00:31:31
Speaker
Not particularly equitable place to live, but I went to college there, so I was quarantined from a lot of the actual living conditions of people in the Eastern Shore. And then after college, one of my first job out of college was actually doing admissions, college admissions stuff. So I went up and down the Northeast to prep schools to try to get kids to come to Washington College, which was really funny at the time because
00:32:02
Speaker
those prep schools are nicer than my college, you know, like there's absolutely no doubt about it. But it gave me a firsthand look at a lot of the
00:32:11
Speaker
a lot of the schools that you'd only read, you know, I don't really read about or even heard about in the Northeast from like, you know, Phillips Academy, St. George School, all the schools in Connecticut, Deerfield, that kind of stuff. And those schools, like some of them have like golf courses and stuff, like it's in their high schools, you know, so it was a funny job. But anyway, that exposed me to those kind of, more to those kind of dress traditions and just like that world is real, you know?
00:32:38
Speaker
to an extent. And after that, I was teaching. So after that, I was teaching middle school and high school on the Eastern Shore. And I was interested in looking older because I felt really young. I was like 21 teaching, in some cases, 18-year-olds, which is a weird. Classroom management was tough for me at that age, especially because I looked really young.
00:33:06
Speaker
I was trying to dress older largely to try to appear more authoritative in school. So I didn't just look like another student. And one of the places I discovered to kind of teach me that stuff was StyleForum. So this is, I think my official joint date on StyleForum for my account that still exists is 2004. And I think I probably even joined StyleForum before then.
00:33:33
Speaker
Um, but at some point, you're way, you're way back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So do you know when that forum was created? I have to imagine around 2000, 2002. I don't think I was, I was a member of that point, but yeah, I think I joined super future, uh, for the denim section in like those six, I think. Yeah. I think that by a few years.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's correct. Yeah, it seems like it. I mean, like you said, the years run together.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, and it was you know, such a funny place back then because it was it was um Like there were no fit pics. There was a fit. There was a fit thread, but you just said what you were wearing. So yeah, dude I I remember like Stumbling into that at one point like and I think I started on stop warm when I was more so like, you know 2011 ish but
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah, like I remember finding that I was like, wow, this is really what it was, like describing your your outfit. Are you familiar with something awful? I mean, this definitely is a different discussion, but I've heard of it. I did not participate. So they did have a they did have a fashion for them. Like that's where I was. And I know other people were in style form, but like I just thought it was not funny enough.
00:35:02
Speaker
Style form wasn't? Yeah, especially- It seemed a little over serious, which like I think it is, which there is nothing wrong with being serious, but I don't, I mean, I sort of think that everything can be funny. Yeah, I agree. And form culture is its own kind of thing, right? I believe, I'm probably giving the history wrong. I believe style forms split off the world like GQ forums.
00:35:29
Speaker
way, way back when. And some people decided that those were, you know, not right for them for some reason. That's why they started South Point. There's also Ask Andy Forum. Ask Andy was really one that I was like, this is too serious. That takes serious and multiplies about a thousand times in my experience. Yeah. Yeah. So those were, you know,
00:35:58
Speaker
especially the outsiders and had their own, definitely had, you know, kind of inside jokes and things like that. Like, again, like any form over time. But I was really active. You would just be destroyed. Like, if you did something wrong, you would just be destroyed.
00:36:17
Speaker
And so it was very like, I mean, of course the internet is not that friendly of a place, but I think that the style forums are particularly vicious. There certainly could be. And you're talking about, you're talking about how you present yourself to the world. So when you put yourself, I think there were people certainly who joined style forum or any of those forums and put themselves out there
00:36:45
Speaker
in a, you know, you're really putting your own appearance out there, you know, it's kind of a vulnerable position to be in. And you don't necessarily know that you're making yourself vulnerable in that way. And then, you know, you get, you get,
00:36:59
Speaker
attacked by whoever. I always kind of found style form to be of them, like the friendlier, certainly friendlier than super future. Oh my God. The super future is terrific. I mean, what a source of knowledge, both of them. Yeah, for sure. For sure. The denim section was a little bit more like chill than the rest of the site. Yeah. I definitely caught some plaque on there at various points for, you know, my cuff being the wrong height.
00:37:25
Speaker
I mean, it's a you know, it's foreign culture. It's like know it all culture. It's that's that's that's the vibe. So that's I was on style form very early. I had other blogs that were not necessarily style oriented. I had like blogs on that we talked about music with friends where we talked about music and things like that with like zero readership, which is fine. And I hope they're all gone. I started a blog like
00:37:52
Speaker
I'm gonna mispronounce the name of my own blog, Brannag. It's spelled B-R-E-A-T-H-N-A-I-G-H. Oh, right, right, right. At some point, and I did some writing on there in the pre-Tumblers, a blog spot era blog. I think I've seen that. Yeah, and then I transitioned it to a Tumblr at some point and became a little more image focused and reblogging, you know, Tumblr is kind of way of doing things.
00:38:20
Speaker
And that was, that was a lot of fun. And at that point I was, I was reading a lot of the other blogs, you know, continuous lean, uh, I five style, uh, starts with, starts with typewriters. I think that's, that was Jeremy Kirkland's blog back then. Right. Um, John Moyes blog, uh, all plaid out 10 engines, uh, satorially inclined wax Wayne. Oh, wax Wayne. Shout out Jake. Yeah. Come on the pod, bro.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, I was reading all that stuff. Um, and it was great. I mean, it was, it was really fun time, I think for, and, and, and, you know, a lot of growth in the, in that kind of cultural space at that time. Uh, and, and I do, I do kind of miss, miss that, that era of tumblr. Yeah. Same. Same. It was just like, it's, it was like a, a snapshot, like,
00:39:12
Speaker
when you really think back on it. And it's like, this was cool as shit. And it's so sad that it just kind of disappeared. Sometimes I think like, I was a different age than you guys were when that was happening. Like I was in my undergrad. And so everything was a shit basically, you know, I had all of this freedom, I could do whatever I wanted, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:37
Speaker
But here you talk about it, it seems like it really was just a great time, like it's a great time for everyone involved. Yeah, I mean, there was no like, it's hard, it's hard to really pin down exactly why the conversation is a lot different today. I know both like the online space has evolved and
00:39:57
Speaker
and just style in general has evolved and like people's takes on style. Cause that was like an era of like hot style takes. You know, it was a lot of people, including myself, like learning about stuff and writing about it at the same time. And there really wasn't anybody to say, hey, shut up. You know, like, you don't know what you're talking about. Occasionally that would happen. And there was, you know, kind of an older guard too, who I think knew more and was like more involved in actual either clothing industry or just like had been,
00:40:27
Speaker
wearing clothes for a long time that could really give you some knowledge. But that's, I think, I think about it kind of in some ways as a glory days, but I'm sure there's some people who thought it was annoying or stupid or didn't know what it was talking about. But it was a fun time. You can't please everyone.
00:40:49
Speaker
Is that how you kind of started writing? Like, I know you've been editing and contributing to put this on forever, but kind of, how did you get into writing and did the clothes come first, I guess, is the question. Yeah, well, I mean, writing, I've always done writing. I went to college for English and creative writing. I had a really good
00:41:16
Speaker
creative nonfiction professor back then who kind of like opened up that idea of like personal essays and you know that nonfiction wasn't just like history books so that was that was kind of cool and I always kind of had that
00:41:32
Speaker
in my back pocket even and my jobs coming out of college were often writing oriented. I wrote proposals for government contractors and nonprofits and things for a while. So even though that is like a different muscle writing wise, that's always kind of been my job and I'm still, that's my profession. I'm still an editor, not clothing related. Yeah.
00:41:57
Speaker
So yeah, I've always been writing kind of on the side, sometimes freelance, sometimes not professional at all. Back then, I think, I don't remember exactly what the order of events was. I was working a little bit with folk, the co-owner of Style Forum. And I worked with, back then, I think through my blog, I met the guys from Trabian Shop. Oh, okay, cool, cool.
00:42:26
Speaker
So I was writing some copy for them and that involved kind of meeting and interviewing some designers and things, which was really cool and opened a lot of doors back then. And with style form, with folk, I think the, I don't remember the first year we went, it was probably 2010. Around then we went to Capsule in New York. And that wasn't really, I'm not gonna say like we were like blazing trails, but that wasn't really a thing at that point yet.
00:42:55
Speaker
That was really, it was kind of pre, a couple of years later, like a lot of the blog guys were working for a lot of those companies too. So like, there was a lot of kind of blog presence. Not to minimize it, it was, that was awesome too. It was like, all of a sudden I knew everybody at those things. But the first time I think we just stayed in like a, I stayed with like three other guys and a style four members and a, you know, hotel room in Lower East Side and went to the, went to capsule when it was in.
00:43:25
Speaker
like some kind of like converted church I think it was in. Down there and it was probably like we got to meet like Yuki from Yucatan and Takeshi from Post Overalls and Mark McNary was there and it was a weird place to be because we were young and like we had no professional experience or really any like anything to offer. I don't think that people had any idea
00:43:51
Speaker
what we were doing there. They didn't see what was coming either, I'm sure. Yeah, well, neither did we. It wasn't like we had any particular agenda other than like, hey, we can see next year's close now. You're kind of just immersing yourself in the industry. Yeah, so that was really fun. And that's kind of how I got into writing.
00:44:17
Speaker
and doing it kind of semi-professional, at least as a freelancer. And then I knew Jesse a little bit, Jesse Thorn from Put This On. And after he had done, I think he might have already done both seasons of the videos, he was working with Derek and they were looking for other writers. So that's when I joined and started contributing to Put This On, which is like the best gig ever, because it was just kind of like
00:44:40
Speaker
write about whatever you want to write about like research, find a cool movie, you know, interview somebody, whatever works, go for it. So that that's been really fun. I don't contribute so much these days. I'm still pretty heavily involved in search and stuff for eBay roundups. But I know Derek is Derek's the big driver behind the, you know, real deep dives these days. But yeah, but this sounds great.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, Connor and I were talking yesterday about how in the space that it occupies, it's definitely the most academic of writing about menswear. And it's such a cool thing that is still happening. And there are still that kind of fan base that you guys cultivated for it. Yeah, I think it's still a really good resource for people. Oh, for sure. It's authoritative.
00:45:37
Speaker
And not in an obnoxious way. There is an ethos, I guess, that the crew has that people are not challenging the takes on the site a lot. I think you're putting down exactly the vibe that we've gone for over the years.
00:46:05
Speaker
it tries not to be, I hesitate to say not trend-driven, but like it's not, like I'm talking about going to Capsule or, you know, I know Pity Womo was in Florence this week and there's all sorts of cool stuff that you can see when those shows happen. But put this on like tries to kind of stand apart from that. It's not about coverage or brands or it's, you know, it's not necessarily, early on it was very much about classic dressing and I think it's,
00:46:32
Speaker
as the culture has moved beyond that, it's moved beyond that too. But yeah, it tries to be approachable and smart about things. And one of the things I think we really try to do, have tried to do is...
00:46:45
Speaker
rather than just pointing at something and saying, this looks really cool. It's like, well, why do we think it looks cool? Let's think about that for a little while. Right, right. And dive a little deeper on it. So yeah, it's, I think, still a very worthwhile site. And I think we still get a lot of people, there's such a depth to the archives, we still get a lot of people who are just looking for like, literally had a tie a tie, you know, you can still find that and put this on. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't have to,
00:47:13
Speaker
done plenty of deep dives into the archives. I'm like, I don't know. Always, like you said, you learn something. And it's not the like, oh, your cuff is one sixteenth of an inch too short for you or your break and whatever. It's like, oh, this is stuff that we actually care about. And we want to like inform, not not just tell you that something is
00:47:40
Speaker
you know, wrong or this is not what you should go for. And, you know, like, yeah, the approach has always been like such a such as just kind of like basis for learning. And I think that's fucking awesome. Yeah, I think Derek's had some articles over the past couple years about like springboard wardrobes about like, you know, start a basis. Here's here's here's here's some things you can you can start with. And that allows you to explore lots of other stuff. So versus saying,
00:48:10
Speaker
you know, I think we're a little allergic to saying like, here's the 10 essentials because I mean, that's just been, yeah, it's been driven into the ground. Yeah, it's really bad. But just to cure some things, you can hear some items, you can start with here's some categories and here's some ideas for, you know, not necessarily capsule wardrobes, but like concepts that are might be interesting to you and you know, pick one and explore it and see if it works for you as you develop your own personal style. But given you, you know,
00:48:41
Speaker
how into clothing you are and your knowledge. Did you ever consider like going into the industry at all? Like, you know, more in-depth kind of like level? Yes, except I have nothing to offer.
00:48:59
Speaker
I have no skills. I'm a terrible salesman. Yeah. So, um, you know, uh, I, I salute the people who succeed in the industry, but like I'm, I see myself as very much like a commentator kind of, kind of role. I don't, I don't, um, you know, I'm thinking back to the cooking analogy, but I, I could never design clothes the way people design clothes. Um,
00:49:25
Speaker
or do anything like that, I don't see myself as a particularly, again, particularly terrific salesman. And those are like, you know, that's the nature of business. So like, you have to be kind of good at some of those things in order to do it. So I'd certainly be interested in working more closely with clothes. And I think that the guys who have done cool stuff in this space, whether it's other,
00:49:52
Speaker
You know, people in media, like a lot of the people we talked about with the early blogs have gone on to, you know, some careers in menswear, whether it's Jeremy with Blammo. It's been cool to watch people succeed, like Greg at No Man Walks Alone with his store. That's really, really cool. And really been kind of a tastemaker over the years.
00:50:15
Speaker
Um, that's all, that's all really cool. I just, I just can't see myself doing that. Um, so, uh, so, so yeah, I thought about it. I just, uh, you know, when I was a kid, I, for, for a few years, I really wanted to be an architect and then I, I kind of sorted out that you have to be good at math and drawing and I'm not good at those things. So like, I don't really know what I wanted to do other than, you know, build cool stuff. So I kind of feel the same way as, as an adult now about.
00:50:44
Speaker
about the clothing industry is that I'd like to be more involved and I really admire people who do a good job with it. It's just, I think that other than having decent taste, I'm not tuned in enough and never was to be a trend forecaster. There's a handful of those kind of career paths into those kind of industries, which just
00:51:08
Speaker
I just don't quite have what it takes, I don't think. The other thing I'm missing is probably a really strong work ethic. I'm a terrible procrastinator. So some people get in there and just work their asses off and they make it work and that's tough. So I just gave you all the reasons not to hire me, anybody who was thinking about hiring somebody. I like it, I like it. You're a pundit fashion and clothing. Yeah, it's the best I have to offer is take. Even my takes have softened a lot over the years.
00:51:38
Speaker
with him a live kind of guy these days. Well, we have prepared an opportunity for a take here, which would be to ask you, and I'm not trying to be leading with this, but like, what does the menswear seem like in DC?
DC Fashion Scene
00:51:57
Speaker
We know that there is a certain reputation, but we're wondering, are things getting better, I guess?
00:52:07
Speaker
To get a real answer to that, you probably have to ask somebody who's gone outside in the past three years. I think that TC has a reputation. I think that when I think about stereotypical TC office where it's really, really inoffensive, that's kind of the point is to not cause a stir. And when you think of people who work in high levels of government, they're usually trying to address
00:52:37
Speaker
You know, the vibe is you have to dress formally because it's like one of the last places in the country where you have to dress. You might have to wear a suit and tie. Yeah, you actually have to wear those things, but you can't dress ostentatiously at all because that sends the wrong signals. So, yeah. I was going to fit in in DC. Yeah, I think I heard you mention another podcast. You worked in government for a while and I remember it was a Joe's Fave Bank or Marshall's or something like that.
00:53:05
Speaker
shoot source and I think that's very typical. Yo it is it is it is yeah I mean like uh Al Franken the disgraced Al Franken told me he liked my socks once and they were red you know what I mean but like my family was always trying to tell me like don't why the fuck are you wearing that?
00:53:25
Speaker
like don't you understand where you're going and i just of course like didn't get it you know i wanted to be like uh loud and it's not a loud place yeah it's definitely it's definitely not i think for for people who for you know the main careers in dc i think that's that's still true although i think that's that slim fit
00:53:47
Speaker
took hold really strong in like the mid 2010s and there's a suit supply here and I think they've done really well with kind of like you know still conservative somewhat but yeah you know conservative now means I think more slim fit so you know by the time
00:54:06
Speaker
we kind of left the office a couple of years ago. I think what I was seeing mostly was still like, you know, again, trying not to rock the boat. So a lot of blue Oxford's, a lot of blue gingham shirts, gray slim fit pants, whether they're cotton or wool, and that's in black shoes. And that's pretty much
00:54:26
Speaker
what people, what people try to wear, to work, to work. I do think that DC has, I mean, they still have a pretty strong music scenes down here, you know, various music scenes, not just, not just punk, not just like discord adjacent, but I think people dress, in those scenes dress, can dress kind of cool. There's a really strong, I think, streetwear scene in DC. Oh yeah. And skate scene in DC, and you know, some good shops for that stuff here, and like Commonwealth's been here forever.
00:54:55
Speaker
Somewhere, yeah, somewhere is a good store in DC now that carries some interesting stuff. You know, New Balance is huge down here and New Balance Sneakers is like really the everyday streetwear sneaker in DC. So again, it does have an, I think it does have an identity DC. It may not be exactly what, the work stuff is still, I think, just overly, just very conservative and
00:55:22
Speaker
and really trying, you don't want to make waves with what you're wearing. You don't want anybody to notice that. That makes sense. But it doesn't mean DC is as boring as maybe it gets to that point. Yeah. I will say that you describing it as an offensive might be the most offensive description of a style that I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. That is like a soft, slight, whatever.
00:55:48
Speaker
back it's the it's not a backwards compliment whatever it is right yeah it's like i you know i i understand it you're telling the truth you're telling the truth but you're not saying the truth yeah like it's conservative i understand but but i'm sorry a macy's slim fit suit is gonna is gonna be offensive to me no matter what
00:56:12
Speaker
I mean, downtown, because I'm thinking about where I work near, when I go to the office, I work near the Capital One Center, I think it's called now, where the Wizards play.
00:56:24
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, there used to be a J. Crew down there. Now I think it's just a Macy's. There's an Alden store. I mean, we have an Alden store. There's a new luxury block of shops with like a Laura Piana and Paul Stewart and stuff. But you know, again, I'm not describing anything particularly groundbreaking there. It's just... Right, right. Just solid classic change. More sources for blue shirts and gray pants. Yeah, yeah. And as long as it fits well, more power to you.
00:56:54
Speaker
So Pete, you know, you've been kind of into clothing and collecting for lack of a better word, clothing for a long time. Like what's your absolute favorite thing that you own? The red sweatshirt. The red sweatshirt. Outside of the red sweatshirt. It's my, what was the name of the sled? Rosebud, is that right? Yeah, Rosebud. Rosebud.
00:57:19
Speaker
Taking back to my red sweatshirt. You know, my favorite piece probably does change. If I went down in my basement and dug through all my boxes of crap, I don't have a storage unit. That's one thing I know I've talked to guys who have storage units for their clothes. I haven't gotten there yet. Mostly because I live in a suburban single family home, so I have a basement where I can shove stuff.
00:57:43
Speaker
Um, I, I think the favorite piece I have, and then I really, really held on to for a long time is, um, uh, the main, uh, main guide coat from the Woolrich Warren Mills hunting, hunting wire collection. It was like, I think it's like 2010. I don't think I got it until like 2015, but it was, it's from 2010. It's like, so it's like, um, blue and black kind of, uh,
00:58:09
Speaker
but again, like kind of big, big plaid kind of pattern, like not pattern, intentionally not pattern matched. Shaw Collar roll jacket. Yeah. And I wore those for a long time. That was like my favorite design. So I just had like a navy one and I had this kind of more, more, slightly more colorful one, I guess. And that's, I really held on to that for a while. It definitely does not fit me anymore, but I've, that's probably the favorite
00:58:39
Speaker
favorite single item of clothing. And it just has like a lot of good connotations and good memories to that piece for me. Well, don't take it to my cobbler. I hope not take it to your cobbler or, you know, if I won't take it anywhere else, I'm going to leave it in the dry cleaning bag and on the rack in the basement. Out of harm's way. Yeah.
00:59:04
Speaker
Um, well, thank you, Pete. This has been a delight. I guess, uh, Matt will take us out. And, um, if he's, if Matt is still there. Yeah. Yeah, man. Thank you. Also, thank you. You know, from my side, um, it's, it's always fun to chat with, uh, you know, with people that have kind of like,
00:59:32
Speaker
been into the same music on, and I have internet mittens wear culture and whatnot. I don't know. It's always fun to get someone's take on that subject. Well, this is the earlier, you're spotting a pair of Converse from across the cafeteria. Right. That is my person right there. As long as the bands are written on the outsole. There you go. Yeah.
01:00:01
Speaker
Exactly exactly, right Well, yeah, we always like to give our guests a chance to shout out whatever they want to shout out. So have at it Yeah, I mean keep keep reading put this on check out the check out the site. Just put this on calm again I do I I spend a lot of time each week looking for good eBay finds for everybody So I try to put the best the best stuff out there for every way to find I'm
01:00:29
Speaker
P Anderson 2 on Twitter, and I'm gonna screw up my Instagram handle, because I think I'm, yeah, I'm Bronagon, I should probably mention that, I'm Bronagon on Instagram, it's B-R-E-A-T-H-N-A-I-G-H, and that is an Irish word for like look or observe, that's the reason, and it's the same, it's hard to pronounce, it's the same kind of root as like a Brannock device, so if you're trying to figure out, it's the same kind of,
01:00:58
Speaker
Not exactly this, but it's the same, same, same roots there. So that's like, I was pretty sure, I was pretty sure. Cause my name, my name's Connor Conchabar lover of hounds, the last King of Ireland.
01:01:15
Speaker
There you go, that's a good name. I had just, I think when I started the blog, I had just been to Ireland for a couple of weeks and I have some Irish ancestry too. And that's why I was casting around for a good blog name that wasn't just like, you know, that was the time era of like Wolf Parade, Wolf Eyes, all the different bands, you know, those kind of bands. I wanted to differentiate myself a little bit. So I named my blog something completely unpronounceable and untranslatable and it really paid off.
01:01:49
Speaker
Well, everyone, thanks for listening. Yeah, good convo, good discussion. I'm Matt Smith, at Rebels Rogues on Instagram. And I'm Connor Fowler, at Connor Fowler. And Connor officially checked yesterday. We have still not gotten one single fucking email. So, apocalypsedudsatgmail.com, send us an emoji, send us something so I can stop doing this. Sword us your spam, anything.
01:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, something that isn't spam is all we're asking for. But yeah, take care. Thanks for listening. Thanks again, Pete. Thanks, guys.