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EP 09 - A relaxed approach to hitting the first $1M + 912.5k followers on TikTok w/ Jessica Hawks (Vault episode)
27 Plays1 month ago
When I first started my online business (a decade ago!) I used to have this one niggling fear that stopped me from doing my job more times than I can count.
It was the fear that I wasn’t “professional” enough to be a business coach. Cue all of the images of corporate America with their tweed jackets and conservative slacks. I tried that life, and it wasn’t for me. So I couldn’t figure out how to find the happy middle between being me and being who I thought you wanted me to be.
"Is my hair brushed? Can I wear these jean shorts? Will people care if I’m still in my bathing suit cover-up after swimming with the kids?"
The thought of a polished Amy Porterfield pops into my head, with her scripts and ironed shirt tucked neatly into her probably very clean pants while I’m over here scraping some crusty baby food off the front of mine.
“Should I do it? What will they think? Will they take me seriously? I hope so…because this is all I got.”
These are the real thoughts I had before I came to the conclusion that actually, the people who come to me like me because I’m me. They feel comfortable taking off their mask because they see me taking off mine. And sometimes it ain’t pretty. But the point of what we do as mentors isn’t to continue building a facade, it’s to break it down so others feel inspired to do the same.
My friend (and basically neighbor), Jessica Hawks, has built her massive online presence and multimillion-dollar business around what makes her most unique, not what might help her fit in.
This episode is jam-packed with ideas for how to show up more authentically online as well as how to find your niche (the people who want what you’ve got in the way that you have it), plus super simple strategies for how to use TikTok to expedite the process of finding your fans. It’s crazy good.
I hope you love today’s episode as much I did!!
Muah!
Dana
Connect with Dana HERE and Jessica HERE and tell them what you loved most about this episode and what resonated deeply.
**If you loved today's episode, don't forget to give this podcast a 5-star rating! You can easily leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts by scrolling down on my show page, selecting a star rating, and tapping “Write a review.” This helps other modern-day healers discover the show, and your feedback helps me curate more content you love. Thank you for your support!!
Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Modern Day Healer podcast. I'm your host, Dana Hayes, and I am so excited to share with you the stories, the trials, the tribulations, and most importantly, the triumphs of my own as well as many other successful modern day healers.
00:00:20
Speaker
We've gone all in to pursue our passion, to make an impact in the world by helping humans heal from the past and find true empowerment in their lives
00:00:37
Speaker
She is me and anyone else who feels a calling to help others heal, grow, and share their light. You could be a wife, a mother, a teacher, a writer, a speaker, a podcast host. You might be a workshop producer, a course creator. You're most likely an entrepreneur and can't shake the desire to make your calling your career because you know how much impact you could make if you went all in and had the opportunity to share your story with the world. That is a modern day healer. I'm a podcast host, a co-author of an amazing book about the journey of sobriety, a wife, a mom of two young children, and the creator of the spiritual lifestyle brand, Living in Power. I am Dana and I am a modern day healer. I am so glad you're here. Let's get started.
00:01:38
Speaker
Okay. Well, hi, Jessica Hawks. Thank you so ah oh much for actually being here. Of course. I'm honored to be that I'm the first guest, right? You are. yeah I'm so excited and honored. I am too. And so, um, we were just talking about this, but before, uh, we got on this call today, I was like looking back through our first messages because on Instagram, because we actually contacted, you contacted me.
00:02:08
Speaker
I did. Like four years ago, five years ago. I think it was a little over three now, or like might be just hitting three. Cause three days ago I had my three year anniversary in business. and So, but I can't remember. I think I might've messaged you before I like actually fully started, you know? I think so because when I was looking, you were still, um, doing the thrifting business. Uh-huh.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, I was. Were you selling the thrift store clothes on Instagram? Yeah. So I, it's funny because I kind of think about my online journey as like just my VA thing and coaching and stuff like that. But I actually started selling vintage clothing online when I was still working at a chiropractor's office. So I was like, I'm barely making any money. And I started seeing these other people that had accounts where they would thrift and then resell the clothing on Instagram.
00:03:03
Speaker
And I used Depop a little bit as well, but I mostly posted on Instagram and I was just trying to engage with as many people as possible. And that did actually pretty well. um I did that while I also was working like 50 hours at the chiropractor's office. So after work, I would come home, take pictures of things, package them up while I'm like eating dinner and watching TV.
00:03:26
Speaker
and do it on the weekend a lot and I continued doing that even into whenever I first started my VA business but then it just that took off and it was but obviously a lot more lucrative than what I was doing and it was also just I didn't have the time anymore because I was spending so much time on the business but it is funny because I kind of forget that I did that even though it was such a cool thing to me at the time Yeah. And it was, it was actually, didn't you have a lot of engagement and followers and traction in that business? Yeah. I think I at one point had like, Oh, it's hard to remember. I think I had between like 10 to 16,000 somewhere in that. I can't fully remember, but yeah, it but it's a weird, like little niche community of the internet. Like I never thought about people reselling clothing on Instagram. You always think about like eBay, Depop,
00:04:18
Speaker
and apps like that. But once, I mean, I would just kind of do some of the same methods that I did on my VA account as far as engaging. But I, once I became a VA and started learning about marketing, I was like, wow, I was doing so many things wrong. And there were so many things I didn't even know that I could have been doing, you know. That's so funny. Well, it's like, I almost wonder, do you feel like you are like a complete niching expert because, first of all, it seems like it comes really, really naturally to you. you Like everything you touch turns to gold. It's, I wanna, I'm obviously gonna get into this, but the amount of followers that you have on your accounts now for the VA business is insane. And the growth that you you like have had in such a short amount of time is, yeah so can you talk about that just a little bit?
00:05:10
Speaker
It is crazy. I think, you know, with, obviously I was pretty niche down in, but I never know to say niche or niche. I always say ni niche, but um I feel like with the vintage business, our vintage clothing business, I kind of just immediately dove into that. And obviously it was, I had a specific style of clothing. I was thrifting for mostly things that I would really love to buy from someone else instead of just doing a bunch of random different things.
00:05:40
Speaker
And then once I started as a VA, I also dove headfirst into working with wedding creatives because I'm definitely the type of person where if things are too general for me, then I have a really hard time knowing how to get from A to B to Z. So I just went headfirst into that. And I think that now what's really nice about working with so many students and teaching them how to start is that I've been exposed to so many niches that It makes it a lot easier for me, for a student to come to me and be like, hey, I want to be in this niche, but I also want to be in this niche. And for us to work through, like, how do we find where those connect together to create a niche that's not so on opposite ends of the spectrum? Or if maybe, you know, there, I mean, just
00:06:26
Speaker
Frankly, there are some niches out there that aren't at the point where they're ready to outsource or to hire someone. So if someone wants to go into you know working with authors but they also want to work with photographers or something like that I remember one of my first students wanted to work with like eco friendly businesses.
00:06:45
Speaker
And that just at the time, I mean, even now a lot of those businesses are smaller and might not have the budget to outsource or even really be familiar with the process of doing it. And she also was interested in working with people in the wedding industry. So we found the middle ground of that and she started working with wedding creatives who had a focus on sustainability. So event planners who tried to reuse things and tried to not create a lot of waste, things like that. And she's killing it. chase She immediately got multiple clients, became booked out, quit her job as a flight attendant. So I think that because of being exposed to so many different niches with my students, it's helped me figure out how to navigate through that in my mind.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. And I agree with the whole, like I need some structure. Like I love that. I love following my intuition, the energetics, um, that are, that are being channeled through me from, from something bigger, but I also love to have some kind of structure around who I'm speaking to because it it allows me actually to, um, flow better and to have sort of a a tangible energy through my messaging. like yeah Yeah, if you're not aligned with you know what you're doing and don't have a clear idea of it, it's you're going to feel all over the place because something like your niche and having structure in that way bleeds over into every other facet of your business. And I think that specifically with business owners,
00:08:15
Speaker
You pretty much always have to have some type of niche or clarity so that that comes through in your marketing and so that you're excited about it. I think that there is an exception with people that are basically kind of internet personas or influencers. Some of them can be truly all over the place, making you know day in the lives, making videos about makeup, making videos about their meals, about their outfits, about the gym, because people are drawn to just their personality. like That's what they're following you for. When you're trying to get clients and people to try to convert someone into just observing you to then paying you and working with you, that's a lot different.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Like coaching versus influencing. Those are different business models. Definitely. Definitely. There's a lot more wiggle room with being an influencer and you have to work a lot harder as a business owner, as a coach, as a service provider to get people to engage with you, to get people to trust you. I mean, if if you look at someone who is a business owner or a coach or someone like that who has a lot of followers, their engagement is, even if they are still having good engagement, it's going to be likely way lower than someone who's an influencer with the same amount of followers. Interesting. Yeah, well, let's talk about your followers. You have the secrets.
00:09:41
Speaker
nine 912.5 to be exact, thousand dollars on TikTok and 124,000 on Instagram. That's crazy. It took me so long to break the 900,000 mark. I was like, am I this? It was like continuous, big growth for a long time. And then I was just stuck at like 870 or something like that for so, so long. I also lose a ton of followers on TikTok and Instagram.
00:10:09
Speaker
you have to You have to work to get get your followers in the higher amount versus in the negative. Oh my God. Do you know how many people are listening to this going, are you kidding me? It took me years to break the 300 mark, like 900,000. I know. This is so first world problems. it's Unbelievable. it's It's so good though. I love it because you're here and you're like,
00:10:37
Speaker
i I want to give people a glimpse behind the scenes of what it really takes to have, you know, not just that type of success, um but, you know, what actually goes into the the joy you know ah of having a business that you are actually excited to wake up and do because yeah some people might have 912.5 thousand followers on TikTok, but it lies because they are literally a slave to their business. And it seems like you have it figured out where you're actually enjoying yourself and you're building something from your heart. And so I would love to take people um maybe down a different,
00:11:20
Speaker
path right now and kind of get a little bit personal with you and ask you, like, what, what is the story behind Jessica Hawkes? Like, where did you start in your life with this? And how did this blow up so fast? And do you feel like, um, you followed something, uh, you know, intuitively that, that place?
00:11:42
Speaker
Yeah, so i I'll just take it way back. I grew up in North Carolina and I grew up in like the smallest town ever. there was like It was ridiculously small and it's one of those places that it seems like most people who grow up there never end up leaving there.
00:12:01
Speaker
And I struggled a lot whenever I was younger. um My parents separated when I was 11. They got divorced when I was 16. I moved out of my parents' house when I was 15 and I moved in with my brother. um And, you know, it's not that I was in a situation where I was lacking a lot. My parents had their own business and they were by no means rich, but We were fun for the most part. I never was, you know, struggling, never felt like I wouldn't have food to eat, anything like that. But I had a really strained relationship with my mom. I was often involved in the arguments and felt like I was kind of having to be the parent in that situation.
00:12:41
Speaker
And it really, really sucked. I haven't seen my mom in like nine years, I think, which is totally wild. But growing up, because of that, you know, I found myself looking for creative outlets. So but just to kind of escape what was happening inside of my house. So I was, you know, writing and drawing and painting, and I got really into doing my makeup and my hair and things like that. and Those things were really fun for me and felt like they came really naturally. and Then once I hit 15 and you know moved out and was trying to do school while also working full-time at jobs and I was living with my brother and my sister-in-law, which they have three kids and I loved living with them. But it's just weird not to be living with your parents and to have a very toxic relationship with your mom.
00:13:34
Speaker
So I felt like at that point, kind of as I got into my teenage years, I was struggling a lot with things like depression and self harm since I was like 11 years old and that kind of i sort I felt like that started to kind of bog down my creativity and me being able to kind of listen to myself. I think a lot of people who are listening can relate to the fact that whenever you are living to please someone else and to make someone like your parent happy, you totally lose yourself and you lose your intuition and your ability to follow your gut because you're having to be so focused on other people and constantly giving to them and not listening to what you actually want.
00:14:16
Speaker
So, you know, once I was a teenager, I kind of just started bopping around to different jobs. I worked in retail. I worked in ah coffee shops as a dog walker. And I had no idea what I was going to do whenever I grew up. And honestly, because of, you know, the area I was living in and whatnot, I was like, I feel like I'm destined to just, like, I feel like I'm destined for more than this, but I feel like the reality of it is that I'm just going to be stuck working in a job that I don't like, like everyone around me, most of my family didn't go to college. And so I was like, well, this is just probably what it's going to be. And I'm just going to have to accept that. And then whenever I turned 19, I moved to South Carolina, I started working as a chiropractic assistant immediately once I moved here.
00:15:03
Speaker
And that was, you know, a really, I really actually liked my job. I liked the work environment. I loved my boss. I still see them all the time. And it was great. It was a great job, but obviously, you know, I was a chiropractic assistant. I wasn't a chiropractor, so I was making not that much money, living by myself, paying my own bills, going to you know, college at the same time, I ended up going to school for nursing. And I quickly realized with nursing that it was just not for me. Like I'd been in the medical field, so it felt like a natural transition, but it was just not what I wanted. I was like, this is feels so lame to me. Like just, you know, working 12 hour shifts, not being creative at all. Like kudos to people in the healthcare industry because it is rough. and
00:15:55
Speaker
You can obviously, you know, be successful, very successful in it, but it just didn't feel right to me. So ah eventually one of my friends that I had met through mutual friends, through I think through Daryl, actually, youre vi she the the friend that she introduced me to was also a VA at the time.
00:16:15
Speaker
And once she told me about what she did, I was like, oh my gosh, this is literally exactly what I've been looking for. But obviously it was terrifying. So I still stayed at my corporate job for like six more months before, six, seven months before I actually decided to take any initiative with it. I feel like that was a long winded answer to that. I think there was something I was coming back to, but got distracted. I'm like, well, when I was born,
00:16:47
Speaker
Great answer. And so now we are at the point where you're quitting. You're quitting your job at the chiropractor. And was it Martin chiropractic? No, I know. I was like, you probably know where I worked because we live so close to each other. Well, yeah. And you used to live here. I think you lived in my city whenever I messaged you originally. I think you were still here in Bluffton. Yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I was. I definitely was. That is so funny. to Not even a year ago, actually. No, sorry. We lived in an apartment complex while we remodeled this house. So we've been out in view for two years, but yeah, it's so random. It's bizarre. We've probably seen each other out in public before and just didn't know. Yeah. Daryl will be like, I'm at Corner Perk, or she'd be like, I'm at this coffee shop trying to, well, it's Corner Perk. Okay. you you know where I am. So you know everywhere that I am. Definitely no corner. But funny okay, so you're quitting your job. And now into this terrifying um phase of your life where the unknown is, is happening. And you're like really drawn to it, right? Like I i remember feeling the same way where I'm like, Oh my God, the internet is calling my name internet.
00:18:05
Speaker
Service providing is calling my name. I must follow the call and I don't care what it effing takes. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. So what ultimately made you take the leap? Are you like, did you have a client or like, how did you, how did you break ties? Yeah. So I actually did make, I started my Instagram for VA and I signed up for a program to help me. That was similar to programs that I have now.
00:18:35
Speaker
And the program didn't start until like mid April or something like that. And I made my first post on March 6 of 2020. No, yes, of 2020. And I was still working at the chiropractic office at the same time.
00:18:51
Speaker
So I actually kind of made the decision and like placed a deposit. I had to put on two different credit cards. i like I truly could not afford it at the time, but I was like, I'm going to make it work. And I can see the bigger vision of this. Like I'm not just looking at short term, what's this going to cost me? I'm going to make it worth my while. And I'm going to figure it out because if you pay, you know,
00:19:13
Speaker
a thousand five thousand dollars for something and then within six months you're making ten thousand dollars a month that's like the best investment you've ever made so i you know started made my first post on march 6th and i think the biggest thing that was holding me back was i was honestly just really embarrassed like if i could boil it down to one thing it would probably be embarrassment and fear of being judged. um You know, all all my best friends, like we don't, at the time we didn't post a lot on Instagram. I rarely ever posted on my personal page. Never would, I would be caught dead before I would be showing up on my stories before I started my business. And I was like, this is just so embarrassing. like My friends are going to be like, what is she doing? I didn't want my family to see it. I didn't want people that I knew from North Carolina to see it.
00:20:03
Speaker
And I was just embarrassed to put myself out there and then get like two likes on a post for a year or something like that. I was like, that would just be humiliating and waste of my time. But eventually I was like, I was starting to see all of these people that I was following. Cause I was obviously stalking every coach and every VA's account. I was starting to see people who were in my exact situation, make their first post few weeks later, get a client two months, they're quitting their job.
00:20:33
Speaker
before you know it, they're making 5k months, 10k months. And I was like, this is, what's embarrassing is that I'm telling myself that they can do it and I can't do it because I have a strong work ethic. I've had to work, you know, full time since I was like 15, 16. I've had to pay my own bills. I've figured things out. I've gotten through like terrible family trauma. I've done all of these things. There's no reason why I can't be resilient enough to do this. And I started to be be at this crossroads, which I think a lot of people eventually get to because a lot of my students will, you know, join my program. And then on our first call, they'll be like, I've followed you for like two years. I finally just, you know, made the decision to do it. And I wish I would have done it sooner.
00:21:18
Speaker
always hear that. I wish I would have started sooner. And I got to this crossroads, which many people come to where I was like, I am actively making a decision by not doing anything. I'm making the decision to just stay exactly where I am, or I could make the decision to just try something new. If it doesn't work, okay, I'll figure it out. And if it doesn't work, I'm exactly back exactly where I am right now. So it's really not that big of a deal.
00:21:47
Speaker
So I just got fed up. I kind of was just getting annoyed with myself at the flip-flopping of, oh, should I do this? Or trying to do the research on my own, but struggling. And eventually I was like, I'm just throwing money into this so that I actually have to do it and hold myself accountable. And I have structure and someone there with me and a group of people there with me who are doing the exact same thing.
00:22:08
Speaker
And, you know, I started, I made that first post about a month and a half before the program actually started. And within like two weeks, someone reached out to me and I, my jaw was on the floor. Cause I was, it doesn't become real until that moment, until the moment you are actually talking with a potential client or someone reaches out to you.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I ended up getting two clients before the program even started. I had no idea what I was doing. I was just figuring it out as I went. I was totally unprepared, but I figured it out. And I think a lot of people don't realize how good we are at figuring things out when we have to do it. And instead we spend way too much time wondering if we'll be able to figure it out when the time comes, you know?
00:22:50
Speaker
Oh my God. So true. And that, okay. So what I have got to ask you is, so when you're at these crossroads and you're like, okay, I'm going to make this first post, right? I'm just going to, I'm going to do it. I'm going to put myself um there. um What, and okay. And now you are where you are. So you went from having one post and, you know, having no idea how this thing was going to go to blowing up off the map, like being literally probably one of, if not the leader of the VA a um entrepreneurial coaching world. So um when you made that first post to now, like from in that time period, if you could give a piece of advice to the people listening who are also coaches, right? They're they're all coaches in this audience.
00:23:38
Speaker
um They're all content creators trying to create posts that are going to land them that first client. so what would If you could give any piece of advice, and I kind of have a feeling that overthinking is is going to be a part of this, only because I know that a lot of your content is like, are you overthinking this? And it's so easy to do.
00:23:59
Speaker
so is overthinking the biggest problem that you're seeing out there with content creation. And then what kind of content do you advise people to create in order to land those clients?
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I have like a three-fold answer to this, I think. I just made a TikTok about this the other day and I was basically the gist of it was the only thing standing between you and being successful where you want to be is your fear of being embarrassed. It feels very embarrassing to make your first post on TikTok, to make your first post on Instagram when you don't have the following, when you don't have the comments, you don't have the likes. It feels like you're just talking into the void.
00:24:41
Speaker
Every single person who you admire, who has grown a following, who has you know killed it on TikTok or Instagram or in business, felt the exact same way whenever they first started. They don't feel embarrassed anymore because now they have a following and it's you know that it's but easy for them, not easy, but it's you don't have that fear anymore. So you have to just get over that. it really The thing you have to remember is that anyone who, I would never look at someone who is starting a new TikTok, making their first video, and be like what are they doing like i love when i see people doing that because i'm like yes there's so many people who wish they were doing that who just won't push themselves to take that first step the only people who would look at your videos and judge you or think you're cringy or think you're embarrassing is are the people who wish that they were brave enough to do it and it brings it your
00:25:35
Speaker
holding a mirror to them and they're starting to feel resentful because they wish they could be that strong and that brave. So that's the first thing that I would mention. Overthinking is huge, a huge part of it. And I relived this experience a few months ago, whenever I started a TikTok account and an Instagram account for like home decor renovations, we're in the process of renovating and, you know, redesigning our house that we just bought.
00:26:05
Speaker
And I put off making that dumb account for like four to six months. And I was like, you are telling, you've lived through this once for one thing and look at where or where it got you. that's Number two, you're telling people every single day to not do the thing that you're doing. You're being a hypocrite. I eventually just did it. And on TikTok, I mean, that you know, me, I like i have a skewed vision of version of this, but I look at it and I'm like, okay, I have 5,000 followers on TikTok. That's not that much, but you know, 5,000 followers of growth in like a month, two months.
00:26:43
Speaker
I think that's really good. So I like it's just that pushing yourself to just do it. Once you make anyone out there who hasn't made their first post and maybe you're new to this world, um once you make that first post, everything feels better. You have to just make the first post and it's the easiest one you'll make, especially on Instagram, just introduce yourself. It's the easiest piece of content you'll ever make in your life probably. So just make the first post, you will feel so much better and it will start to snowball effect after that.
00:27:15
Speaker
I think my first client reached out to me when I had one or two posts on my Instagram. Lord knows why she chose me to reach out to. But she did. She felt something there. And I only had one or two posts up. So you have to remember that. And yes, stop overthinking it. The We create so many versions of what what an outcome is going to be in our head and catastrophize it before anything has even happened. So hope for the best and think through the best case scenario instead of the worst case scenario. And then the second thing, I think that this is this is applicable to anyone, but I think it's especially applicable to coaches or people who are trying to get into that industry to be educators of some sort.
00:27:57
Speaker
Whenever I first started my ah TikTok, I was, you know, around September I was, I really knew that I wanted to start teaching. I had done some strategy calls, I had taken on um a one-on-one student at the time who is now a co-coach in my program and we created a business together as well. She was my first one-on-one student and she got booked out in like five weeks, I think, when we were coaching together. So I was like, I feel like this is what I need to be doing. And they're also at the time, weren't a lot of VA coaches, believe it or not. And there especially weren't many VA coaches that were in my situation where they had dropped out of college and they were at this crossroads of what am I going to do with my life? And also that we're working in the creative industry. A lot of VA coaches teach their students to work like on the tech side of things or with coaches, things like that, which
00:28:49
Speaker
I have a lot of students that do that as well, but I more so focus on the creative side of it. So I was like, I really want to do this. And what I was seeing on Instagram was a lot of coaches really struggling to get people in their programs, struggling to you know market themselves.
00:29:07
Speaker
A lot of them were following a very rigid launch strategy, which I think there's nothing wrong with doing that. But for the demographic I was going for, I was like, a 21-year-old on Instagram is not just going to stumble on my you know posts about coaching and ah like be convinced by my marketing. they How are they even going to find my account? right And I'm very impatient. So I was like, I'm not going to wait around for this and try and struggle to get people to know to work with me as a coach.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I was like, where are they? Where are those people that I want to teach? They're on TikTok, obviously. And your chances of getting seen on TikTok are astronomically higher than they your your chances of getting seen on Instagram. It's the best place to go viral with your first video. So I took to TikTok and believe it or not, there also weren't many coaches or business owners on TikTok at the time.
00:30:02
Speaker
So, you know, instead of doing what you think you should do or what you see other people doing, you have to just try new things. and This is especially, you know, like I said, with coaches and with service providers, there's a lot of service providers that start and just mimic what other people are doing. And you're constantly two steps behind those people whenever you're doing that. So you have to try new things just because somebody who's a marketing strategist isn't telling you to do it doesn't mean that you can't do it.
00:30:31
Speaker
and that it won't work. And TikTok was the one that it completely changed everything for me. And had I just stuck to what I saw other people doing or what I saw coaches saying you should do to launch something, I would probably be still struggling to get students into my programs. Exactly. I completely agree with that. And that's why I really hesitate to handout templates or anything that is so structured that it puts you into a box and limits your ability to test your own creative um inputs or outlets. I do not like to hold anybody back from from ah fully expressing themselves because ultimately I feel like that is what makes us stand out.
00:31:19
Speaker
yeah Head and shoulders above the hundreds of thousands if not millions of other coaches trying to do something very similar at this point because so many people are clamoring online to get seen and heard and they're all doing very, very similar things following these um these templates and these cookie cutter strategies that everybody else is following. Yeah, exactly. and ah A lot of people are worried and whenever they get into the online space that it's oversaturated. and I made a whole podcast episode about this, but it's not there are a lot of people on the online space, obviously. The online business space and creator space has blown up in the past three years, but I still have students in every program. We're halfway through our you know my current coaching program and a ton of them already have clients. You're not
00:32:11
Speaker
it's not oversaturated when you can make yourself stand out. That's what people are looking for. You have to figure out something out that makes you different and that's what people are drawn to. People are very tired of seeing the same things over and over again, the same types of posts. You have to just try different things and you can take inspiration, like look for inspiration from not only like like old newspapers or interior design magazines, like look anywhere besides in your niche.
00:32:43
Speaker
for inspiration and then also within like the online space, take inspiration from like people who are, you know, not in the business space, who are content creators or influencers or, you know, there's a girl that I, um, that comes to mind who started making videos just for fun where she basically the context of them was, you know, what I would do if I was Kylie Jenner's PR manager or this celebrity's PR manager.
00:33:09
Speaker
And they, those videos blew up. So even just taking that and being like, how could I kind of make that applicable to my online space? Can I do a case study of an account? Or if you're a social media manager, can you do a case study of like how I would rebrand this really popular brand Target or, you know, whatever it is, Urban Outfitters.
00:33:30
Speaker
That type of content is different and it's fascinating to people to see that. We love seeing that type of content. So you have to start kind of taking your inspiration from things outside of the world that you're so deeply involved in. I love it. And it's like, again, it's telling people to get outside of their comfort zone and be different. like yes the leap, you've become a coach, you are now putting yourself out there, but now it's time to take the next step and be fully expressed as the person that you are as opposed to taking on all the qualities of the coaches and the people in your niche that you're constantly inundated with their info. Yeah. And I think that another thing that, you know, especially in regards to like, um,
00:34:21
Speaker
I guess this applies to coaches and to people like virtual assistants, social media managers, et cetera, but I'll take the example of, you know, yeah let's say like social media managers.
00:34:32
Speaker
What I, ah the and mistake I often see making whenever they try to venture into a platform like TikTok is that they replicate their content from Instagram on TikTok. So you may make a very educational, you know, one and a half minute reel on Instagram talking through like why a social media manager is important for someone's business. And while that may perform well on TikTok, you have to shift your strategy because Instagram is where people are looking for your more long ah long-form content and are going to be, you know,
00:35:04
Speaker
Um, shifted into being your client slowly over time. TikTok is a very fast app. People aren't going to, you know, see one video of yours and follow you. If it's just you constantly making really long videos, talking about the same type of content you would post on Instagram. You have to think of it in a broader sense. And a way that you can do this is by thinking about outreach content and retention content. So on TikTok, your outreach content is going to be your more general content. It may be like 10 second reels where you're doing a trend.
00:35:33
Speaker
where it's going to appeal to a lot of people. If you're a social media manager, maybe you make a video about the new Instagram update where you can buy verification. A lot of people are going to find that interesting, not just people that you're trying to get as clients. So if you're making more, a little more general content, your outreach content is intended to bring in the masses of people.
00:35:54
Speaker
so that they can start getting exposed to you and then your retention content is where you start to go deeper into things. I do this a lot in video responses to comments on my TikToks that way I can dive in more so I'll do a trending video and then there's you know people will asking questions in the comments then I'll reply and do longer educational videos for that because I've already brought in the masses of them.
00:36:16
Speaker
um Your retention content is what's actually going to make them want to work with you over time, but you have to have a lot of both. um The outreach content is what's really going to help you bring in the people. So you have to change your strategy a little bit to not just be that educational content, inspirational content on Instagram, where it's a longer form. You have to think about what's going to grab a lot of people's attention, what's going to appeal to a lot of people.
00:36:42
Speaker
and Okay, that is some very juicy, especially for someone me who it's literally on TikTok last night, looking at my quote unquote, account that I don't have anymore. And I was like, where's all my content? I could have sworn I had one. And I don't know. So I happened. I don't know.
00:37:07
Speaker
That's weird. well They banned you. They're like, no, she can't be on this app. active enough because you got to go She's got go. She's not keeping the people on the app. That's what I'm saying. And I really don't know, but I think I created it with a different email address. And now I just can't find it.
00:37:25
Speaker
And I locked out. I don't know. So I might just create another one. Yeah. Just start fresh. It might be number four, but it's fine. It's fine. And so I am going to take some inspiration from this and I'm going to make my first TikTok video as of 2023. And I'm going to implement the things that you have said. you I'm going to tell you how it worked out.
00:37:51
Speaker
Do it. you have the Especially in like your industry, there's so much potential to be making content about intuition, how to follow your gut. mindset, things like that. Everyone on TikTok likes that. I see those videos all the time and you're getting them to follow you. And I always also recommend having some way to bottleneck people over to Instagram because TikTok is such a rapid app in general. People will follow you or like your video, think they'll come back to it and then forget you exist until you pop up on their new page, hopefully again. So you need a way to get you those followers over to your Instagram because that's where they're really going to start, you know,
00:38:29
Speaker
liking you, trusting you, knowing you. So for me, I you know direct people over there because I have a like 15 hours of Instagram lives where I'm talking, teaching, answering questions about working online and how I got started. You might notice this with people who have like fashion accounts on TikTok. They will say, everything's tagged in my Instagram stories. They're not just doing that because it's easier. They're doing it because they want you to follow them on Instagram.
00:38:53
Speaker
So figure out a way to get those people some incentive to get the people onto Instagram because that's really where they're going to start to, you know, like I said, invest in you and trust you. Oh, this is good. I said this was for my audience, but it is absolutely for me now. You're like, you're like, can you create a content plan for you on TikTok?
00:39:14
Speaker
Oh my God. Um, so, uh, I have a question. Would you, like, I know what I tell but my clients and most of the time, like, okay. So I outed myself already. I am not on TikTok and I am, however. Shame.
00:39:34
Speaker
No, sorry, I will make up for this. um But I, of course, I'm on Instagram and Facebook. And ah on Instagram, just like you, I have, who knows how many hours worth of educational posts with lives. Now, I tend to err on the side of o posting when I feel very, very compelled to do so. However, also not making the mistake to to just drop off the face of the earth and not be right visible, but I tend to create content when I feel really creative. And maybe I'll create a bunch and then save some of it for later to like post when I'm not feeling so creative. But would you, know do you advocate more for a,
00:40:24
Speaker
quantity or quality strategy when it comes to posting or is it a mix of the two? I think it's a mix of the two. I would say more so in the beginning. You want to focus on quantity because you're kind of in a test period of figuring out what people respond to and what resonates with your audience and you need to get comfortable. So in the beginning, just post, get the content out there. It doesn't matter what it is.
00:40:45
Speaker
If you hate it in six months, you can archive it, it's not that big of a deal. As time goes, I definitely started ah focusing more on the quality of it and You don't want to get in that cycle where you're feeling like I'm just posting to post. You never want to just post to post. And up until I hired a social media manager, I was very much so the same. I would just post when I felt like it. I didn't plan out my content. I'm terrible at content planning. I don't like doing it for myself. And that's fine. Everyone's shoving down your throat. So you have to content plan. If you don't feel like if it doesn't work for you, it's okay to do it more intuitively.
00:41:26
Speaker
um But you have to make choose your priorities. So I didn't post as much on my feed, but I showed up on my stories all the time because it felt easier for me and it was just natural and I got a lot of clients from doing that.
00:41:39
Speaker
um Then once I got a social media manager, that really helped me kind of structure things better. um And, you know, for a while, she was taking over most of it for me. Obviously, I was filming the content and all that stuff and approving and, you know, giving input, but it started I started to feel very detached. ah This was around like the end of 2022, I started feeling very detached from my business and my content. And I felt like that was reflected in my audience. Um, I felt like they just didn't feel like I was there anymore, you know? And so we actually changed things completely around. I'm so much more involved in the content creation process. You know, she still makes graphics for me. She's way better at doing that than I am.
00:42:25
Speaker
But, you know, I'm way more involved in the ideas and writing all the captions and filming the content and we made things a lot more casual as well. So I would say, you know, if you're kind of struggling or feeling stumped with content, sometimes you have to change it up. It was starting to feel a little more like corporate with my content for a while.
00:42:45
Speaker
And now it's a lot more casual. We post like ridiculous pictures of me. We do more casual fun reels. um You know, if I'm doing more educational content, a lot of times I'll just film that in a reel versus it being in the caption. Things like that where people feel like it's more authentically me. So try switching it up and trying something else. I think casual marketing is the the way everything is going right now.
00:43:11
Speaker
That is such a good point to make because, only because I wanted to ask that question. You're like, only because I liked it.
00:43:26
Speaker
so good you know This question, so it's obviously all of it. um but It really has become all about me. oh I was going to ask you about the idea between okay so this is probably going to be one of the last questions we'll wrap it up but I wonder.
00:43:49
Speaker
Like I remember I had my first coach and she was amazing. Um, but she was anything but cash. She was not casual at all. And very much. And, and I see a lot of coaching on this in the coaching industry, which is, you know, coach as if you're a luxury brand and that's how you get the high end clients. And I.
00:44:10
Speaker
Do I am just a casual person? Like I'm sorry. yeah not I love, don't get me wrong. Like I love being taken care of and I love nice things. And I do. I love that stuff. I love the experience. However, and I do also love being taken care of.
00:44:25
Speaker
in a client-coach relationship when I have a coach. So of course, I want to take my people on a beautiful journey. However, when I show up like in my social media, I do feel a certain sense of pressure from those teachings to be something I'm not. And when I watch your content, I have to tell you,
00:44:46
Speaker
that it makes me feel so good because I'm like, Oh my God, this is so much more relatable. However, there is still a fear that I'm like, well, but if I'm still being myself, which I can't be anything other. So if you look at my, a lot of casual stuff, but, um, if I'm, if I'm doing that, what if I, I, I make people think that I'm not professional or something like,
00:45:13
Speaker
has I think a lot of people feel this way. And, you know, you said, I can't be anything other than myself. I actually think a lot of people do become something other than so themselves on social media. And because you feel and a lot of it is because we have been but given an idea of what professional means for our entire life. And you can't undo that in a short amount of time. It takes time to be like, okay, I can post a video of me falling down a boat ramp and relate it to my content. And I'm still a professional, you know, you're, you have to choose again, prioritize things. So
00:45:57
Speaker
In terms of my programs, like I'm going to make sure the quality or the content is high quality. I'm going to make sure that people feel taken care of and you know tended to, that they're getting the right information and that I am holding myself to a high standard of making sure I'm giving them the correct information and also you know guiding them on how to come to conclusions on their own instead of me just telling them what the right thing to do is. That's where i that's what I deem professional, is having really high quality You know material resources client experiences holding yourself to a high standard in that way whenever it comes to your marketing and your content you have to think about you know.
00:46:41
Speaker
what you're, who you are as a person. Like there are some people who are way more like proper and and put together and are very serious most of the time and wouldn't be caught dead posting a, you know, picture with them of no makeup on or something like that. And if that's your thing, then totally lean into that like that. You will find like is drawn to like, you will find those people that do like that and appreciate that about you.
00:47:08
Speaker
but I'm not like that. Like, I'm like you. I like nice things. I like, you know, getting dressed up and all of that stuff and, you know, being professional in my own way, but I'm also a very not serious person in real life at all. um And I don't want my students feeling like they can't show up to a Zoom call with like their kid in the background or eating dinner or like cooking while they listening, stuff like, listen, stuff like that. and I often see at the beginning of you know my 11 week program that people are very, I think that because of the way that we've been you know trained our whole life, people are like, I'm going to be a few minutes late to the group call. I'm so sorry. um Or I'm going to turn my camera off because my dog's in the background playing. And so I really put emphasis on like, we don't care. Show up however you want to these calls. If you want to bring your drinks, if you want to bring your food, if your kid's in the background or on your lap or you have
00:48:05
Speaker
a cat crawling around the computer. Like we don't care. It's not disturbing us. We want you to be able to relax and feel like you don't have to put on this, you know, charade whenever you're showing up to these calls. And by the end of it, they're way more relaxed, way more themselves and having so much more fun on the calls or probably ah by like week three, I would say everyone's feeling that way a lot more. So, you know,
00:48:31
Speaker
If you're a more casual person, if you are, don't take yourself seriously and you want to just post ridiculous things sometimes, do it. Like tie it back to business in your, you know, ah caption. If you're posting like a picture where you look busted because you think it's funny.
00:48:48
Speaker
Make your caption like me whenever this happens, something related to business and then expand on it. People love that. People engage so much with that type of content because it makes you a real person to them. And with the amount of content that's being pushed out and that we consume daily,
00:49:04
Speaker
You kind of start to look at people as like in PCs. It's like that's not even a real person. So whenever you do something that actually shows who you are as a person, it almost like shocks people. And they're like, oh, I love this because this is more humanizing.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yes. Oh my God. Okay. So seriously, you have inspired me. I will be showing up, um, posting ugly photos of myself falling down because I have the same video. Um, Oh, you should do it.
00:49:35
Speaker
That's so fun when you do a collab. I was like, is that Martin's place? Like I literally was like looking at the boat ramp. Like, is that the same one? That was so funny. No, it's at my friend's house. But I was like, yeah, that was ridiculous. I have so many videos like that. And there, trust me, there are times when I'm like, I get that same feeling because it's so ingrained in us where I'm like, oh, is there people gonna think this is weird or, you know, showing some up on my stories and just different occasions where I do have that voice in my head, but you have to, you know, the proof is in the pudding whenever people are engaging and like, Oh my gosh, I love this, or this is so funny, or like, oh this makes me feel so much more related to you or like feel like you're so much more relatable. You have to look at that and the people like if you are a more casual person who wants to post fun things like that and still obviously hold yourself to a high quality of work.
00:50:29
Speaker
The people who are looking at that and are like, they're unprofessional. I would never work with them. Those aren't your people. I just ah was listening to my friend who I do a masterclass with, Erin, on her stories the other day. And she was talking about how she cursed in one of her newsletters that she sent out to her email list. And somebody replied and was like, I can't believe you would do that. I, would that happen to you? You're like, I was the one who emailed her. I reported her.
00:50:59
Speaker
She's banned now. Somebody was like, I can't believe you would do this. I'm unsubscribing. Or no, can you take me off the email list? Which first off, you get, there's an unsubscribe button. Just click it. that I hate when people do that. But she was like, that's not someone who but I would want to work with. And you have to carry that feeling through because those people, it may make you feel a little judged at first and it may make you feel uncomfortable, especially if you're a people pleaser and you want to be like, oh no, I'm sorry. Like I didn't mean to if offend you, whatever.
00:51:28
Speaker
People will get offended about anything. So those are not the people you want to be working with. So just say good riddance. They'll find someone else that they like better that never curses and always shows up perfectly put together. Not me.
00:51:45
Speaker
It's so funny, but the things that somebody, I got an email response one time to one of my emails and they were like, there was a photo from the photo shoot that I did, which obviously the photographer edited as they normally do, like edit to make it look their style. And this guy replied and was like, um why are you using so much filter on that photo?
00:52:09
Speaker
And I was like, what? Why are you even taking the time to say this to me? Like, it's so ridiculous the things that just shows you people will nitpick anything because they just don't. There's something in them and it's usually a reflection of themselves. Why people leave hate comments on TikTok. It's why people respond to email lists with something like that. It's because they're not probably a happy person in general.
00:52:32
Speaker
Of course, and they're watching you take your mask off, and they wish they could take their mask off, but they can't do so, so they're gonna project anger onto you, and it's just, it's gonna happen. A world of projections, the online space.
00:52:47
Speaker
God, it's insane. It's such a mirror, but it's like, you know, that that story of somebody calling me out for cursing, I use it all the time because it's like, guys, it it happens. People have lots of criticism that they would love to freely offer. And honestly, it's up to you to be strong enough to know who you are and that all the good totally outweighs that one tiny little comment that probably won't even happen. But if it does, it's okay. Like it's not, it's not that bad. Right. And that's the same thing with hate comments on TikTok. People, I get a ah lot of questions about like, how do you deal with the hate comments because I've gotten some crazy comments. I've gotten some crazy voice messages, Instagram DMs. And, you know, initially I, it really bothered me and I,
00:53:39
Speaker
It bothered me in the sense of just annoyance and feeling that feeling of like, you don't understand me. Like I don't have bad intentions. I am trying to help you, et cetera. A lot of people think that I'm a scammer and now I'm like, and they're right.
00:53:57
Speaker
But now I have gotten to the point where I just feel bad for them. Like when someone comments on one of my TikTok videos of me talking about how you can start a business online and they comment like, this is a scam. Nobody should believe this. I feel bad because they're never going to get anywhere in life because they're going to think everything's a scam and they're going to stay there working in their office that they hate for the rest of their life till they can retire, hopefully one day.
00:54:21
Speaker
so i feel bad it's like you're you're lost dude i you're not it's not my problem you're the one who's not benefiting from something because you think everything is a scam and when some you're so ingrained in the system that whenever someone tells you there's another option it makes you angry is yes talk about being attached to i know Oh my God. Okay. I am so excited because I feel like just personally, if no one else got anything out of this, I know I did. And I know for a fact they told me that this was so, so, so good. And you know, something about when this kind of information comes from someone with 900 and 12.5 thousand followers, it's, you know, it just feels valid. and listen
00:55:11
Speaker
So I'm like, I'm like, I bought all of those. I'm just spewing nonsense. Totally bought. Yeah. We know. So it's out. Yep. I'm a scammer. I buy followers, all the things. my god jeica Where can people go to find you if they wanted to be a VA a or just wanted to buy with you on your social media accounts? Like where can they go?
00:55:34
Speaker
Pretty much everywhere. Um, my website is it's JessicaHawks dot.com and that's my handle on everything else. So Pinterest, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. I don't really get on Facebook very much. Um, that's yeah, it's just not my thing, but yeah, everywhere is it's JessicaHawks.com. Awesome. Sweet. That's so easy. And, um, you know, if,
00:56:03
Speaker
and but by you pull a pile of books off of your bookshelf earlier. I did. If you could you could recommend a book or five, what would it or they be? um Well, first, i don't I don't know where it is, but Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's obviously a great book. Bragg Better is a good good one for fearless self-promotion, which is definitely helpful for put people in the online space. We both were talking about this when we both have it, Becoming Supernatural, which neither of us have read, but I've heard that it's an amazing book.
00:56:36
Speaker
Um, Financial Feminist by Tori Dunlap is a great book on finances, badass habits. That's a classic. Think like a monk. And I haven't read this one because it's very intimidating to me how large it is and small print it is, but 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene. I've heard this is kind of like a weirdly amazing book. Um, I'm trying to think of any others.
00:57:03
Speaker
Obviously, Think and Grow Rich and the Art of Public Speaking, those are also really popular. um But yeah, I think that's about it. And the Court of thorn Thorns and Roses series that will help you not at all in your business, but you'll love them. We come obsessed. Oh my God. And this is why we love you because you're yourself and you, that's it. That's it right there, people. If you don't take anything else away, like just do that. Just read note that series.
00:57:32
Speaker
Oh my God. Thank you, Jeffregas, so much for being here. This was better than I ever imagined it would be. Thank you. Thank you. This was so fun. This is a very good flow and easy to talk to each other. So yeah, I loved this. Again, I'm honored to be at the first guest. Thank you. ka Bye, everyone.