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Grant Cameron - UFO's, Crash Retrievals, Wilson/Davis & More
657 Plays2 years ago
Vinnie's Movember donation link: https://movember.com/m/14838165?mc=1
Grant Cameron has been a UFO researcher since 1975. He is the winner of the Leeds Conference International Researcher of the Year and the UFO Congress Researcher of the Year. He is a world-recognized expert on Presidents and UFOs, the Canadian government and UFOs, the alien music connection, and the relationship of consciousness to UFOs. Grant lives in Winnipeg.
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Grant Cameron has been a UFO researcher since 1975. He is the winner of the Leeds Conference International Researcher of the Year and the UFO Congress Researcher of the Year. He is a world-recognized expert on Presidents and UFOs, the Canadian government and UFOs, the alien music connection, and the relationship of consciousness to UFOs. Grant lives in Winnipeg.
Grant Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GrantCameron...
Grant Twitter: https://twitter.com/GrantCameron
Grant Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whitehouseufo/
Grant Books: https://itsallconnected.weebly.com/bo...
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Become a YouTube member: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMEn...
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/disclosu...
Disclosure Team Merch: https://disclosureteam.bigcartel.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Anomalous Technology
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon. One realizes very quickly we've been seeing this technology for decades. I had access to all those programs.
Witness Accounts of Strange Objects
00:00:48
Speaker
No windows, no real wings or control surfaces, no obvious signs of repulsion, and yet this object is witnessed now by four separate individuals and two separate aircraft.
Introduction of Grant Cameron and House Rules
00:01:09
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. I am so happy to be here. Um, before we bring on my guests, just a few house rules as always, please keep the chat nice, cool, calm and collected. Um, we can all have good conversations without being abusive or anything like that. Uh, you're always really good. So, uh, I always appreciate that. Um, I'm not going to really talk about the UAP report at all because we're still waiting on that.
00:01:37
Speaker
That's a whole nother story altogether.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, if you have any questions for Grant during the conversation, please pop them in capital letters. I'm more likely to see them and then I can pop a little star and they add to my little list as well so I can try and get around to answering them at some point. And that's it. So yeah, I'm really happy to be talking to my guests today. I've been following Grant's work since I first got into this subject over a decade ago. Grant's been researching since about 1976 and he's covered most aspects of the phenomena. So we're going to try and cover
00:02:07
Speaker
a decent amount of topics today so without further ado guys please welcome Grant Cameron. Grant how you doing?
Discussion on Wilson-Davis and Oak Shannon Notes
00:02:14
Speaker
Just doing fine Vinnie thank you for the invite here and I'm excited I'm always excited about my field here and what I've done and at my age I'm excited to be anywhere so go ahead and let's get going.
00:02:27
Speaker
Excellent, well we mentioned just before that one of the really important conversations that's been happening in well since this kind of summer since the congressional hearings was the Wilson Davis notes or the Wilson Davis memo which we've covered on this channel and I think a lot of people have kind of covered the core story but one thing that I'd like you to sort of touch upon and give us a bit of detail in depth on is the Oak Shannon notes and the Jack Hauck notes that you Melinda Leslie and
00:02:52
Speaker
Nicole have discussed so I don't know where you want to start with them but if you could talk to their provenance and importance that'd be great. Okay so for people who know what the notes are the Eric Davis has a conversation with the former head of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff who had gone on a search and had discovered the program had discovered a back engineering program and was told to back off or he'd lose
00:03:16
Speaker
a star and he basically backed off. Then he had a conversation with with Eric Davis and these notes came to me from James Rigney out of Australia and I found a way to get him on the internet. They sat on the internet for quite a while for I don't know four or five months before anybody ever discovered them
00:03:33
Speaker
And then they sort of went viral and then people are disputing or they real or they're not real.
Criticism of UFO Community's Secrecy
00:03:38
Speaker
And we've actually learned in the last little while, which kind of upsets me because my big thing is I'm the kind of guy that, you know, if you want to keep a secret, you better not tell me because I'm going to tell everybody. And I wanted this thing out and I now I've learned, you know, the idea that, um, that, uh, Leslie Kane had seen these notes in 2007 or 2008.
00:04:01
Speaker
And Jack Valle has now admitted he saw them at least eight years before they were released. And all these people side on this stuff. And it's like I always disputed this in past. I got so upset with the UFO community. I said, if the UFO community has more secrets than the government, and that if every UFO researcher would put their stuff on the Internet, it would all be over.
00:04:22
Speaker
because and I know like I even went to to Stanton Friedman's files I wanted to see certain things to Stanton Friedman's files because I figured oh he must have something that he hid something that he didn't tell anybody and I'm going to find it in in his notes but so I got these notes out there and then the reason that I knew they were important when James Rigney first showed them to me
00:04:43
Speaker
in I guess it was 2018 in November at the conference in Laughlin, Nevada. I didn't want to see these notes. I said, oh, just send me the document, whatever it is, because you get contacted all the time. And so when he showed them to me, he was on an iPad, and he walked off into the casino.
Notable Figures in UFO Research
00:05:01
Speaker
And I'm looking at this, and the first thing I noticed on the front page was Oak Shannon's name.
00:05:08
Speaker
And the thing was, when this conversation took place in 2002, I knew Eric Davis, they were the he was working he had just been laid laid off from NIDS he didn't have a job, he and the NIDS people were interested in the Canadian government propulsion, they were interested in my information on
00:05:26
Speaker
the Holloman Air Force Base film, they were trying to figure out all these mysteries. And so I had some conversations with a lot of these high ranking people until I sort of started leaking stuff, and then they stopped talking to me. But anyway, so I was talking to Eric Davis at the time, and he told me a lot of really interesting stuff. And I basically say he's the sharpest knife in the drawer. I mean, he knows a lot of stuff that you have no idea what Eric Davis knows. I mean, he was a former intelligence guy,
00:05:51
Speaker
And then he got into UFO and he had the UFO sighting on the day he graduated and stuff like that. But I was talking to him and he provided me with this set of notes from Oak Shannon from, it used to be called the UFO working, the UFO
00:06:07
Speaker
UFO group and there was an actual book written by the New York Times reporter, his name is escape, Howard Bloom wrote a book on it and they were called the UFO working group and then it was rumored and people kind of figured out who was on the
Advanced Physics Theoretical Working Group
00:06:23
Speaker
group and stuff like that. So when I got these notes from Eric Davis, he said that when Oak Shannon had a heart attack and he said,
00:06:34
Speaker
If Oak Shannon dies, you can release these notes. And it didn't appear that Oak Shannon would live. He was pretty seriously sick. And so I said, OK, fine. So I held these notes. And then the Wilson document was shown to me on this iPad. And I remember I'm looking at this thing and I saw Oak Shannon's name and I saw Eric Davis's name. And I knew that Oak Shannon was good friends with Eric Davis. And I'm going,
00:07:00
Speaker
Holy cow. And I'm thinking, wow, this is something else. And all I saw was the first page and maybe part of the second page of this document. And I was going like, wow. I mean, this is, and I'm thinking like James is not around that I'm going like, I gotta get this document. I gotta, I gotta get this document. And I'm thinking.
00:07:17
Speaker
I'm going to get this document and I'm thinking well maybe maybe I'll photograph the screen before James comes back so I can at least get the document. I didn't realize this 15 pages and I've never read the whole document. I've never read the Wilson Lake document. I saw the first page with that Oak Shannon's name on and when I had I saw Oak Shannon's name
00:07:33
Speaker
And Eric Davis having this conversation with this admiral, I knew this was the real deal. Because the thing was, I was the only person in ufology other than the NIDS people who know who Shannon was. Nobody knew who Shannon was. I knew that he was this high level guy. And so I would check every once in a while, I would go and check his bio to see if he died yet. Oh, and then he was on the board of this company, aerospace company on the board of this. And it was like this very powerful guy. And then he just never seemed to die. But then Oak Shannon went live.
00:08:01
Speaker
And he came live and he did an interview with Jay. And as soon as that happened, then I said, well, OK, well, I mean, if he's gone live, I mean, why am I holding these notes now? There's no point in holding. And so I said, OK, I'm going to release the notes. And Oak Shannon came back to me on Twitter and he said, can you show me the notes before you release them?
Funding Struggles in UFO Research
00:08:23
Speaker
I'm not going to stop you, but I'd like to see what's coming.
00:08:25
Speaker
He wanted to know what kind of backlash it was going to be. And I showed him the notes and he basically said, well, you know, yeah, I don't really remember this and I don't know what this is all about and whatever. And so then when I released the notes, um, the important thing to me in the notes too, cause it's 27 pages and, and Melinda Leslie had some that were from Oak Shannon. So there was this group called the, uh, it used, as I said, it was called the UFO working group. But then when I released this back in,
00:08:52
Speaker
maybe 2003, 2004 at a conference in Eureka Springs, I released the names of the people. I mentioned the fact that it was called the Advanced Physics Theoretical Conference and I had the front page and I just took out this section because I didn't, it was labeled top secret restricted. So it was a document from the Department of Energy because John Alexander was with Los Alamos, which is under the Department of Energy.
00:09:22
Speaker
So I just put the middle part because I didn't want to put the top secret part on there. So I just put that and then I put the names. And remember, Tim Goode came to me and he said, Timothy Goode says to me, says, you know, you put those names on and George Wingfield came as well. And they said, hey, you put those names on the screen. I said, yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
I only put them on that screen for one second, so nobody could copy them down. And then he said, could I get those notes? The names? And I said, yeah, okay, Tim. So I gave him the names.
00:09:54
Speaker
And then about a month later, I get a email from hell put off and you almost never hear from hell put off. I got an email and he says, Oh, I understand you've got a list of names from a group that I was rumored to be a part of. And I said, well, yeah, I do. And he said, well, can you release, can you give me the names? So I gave him all the names except for Oak Shannon. I didn't put Oak Shannon's name on there because I didn't want to release what I, how I knew this. And I never heard from hell
Calls for Openness in the UFO Community
00:10:17
Speaker
back again, but.
00:10:19
Speaker
Then that's when I identified that it was called the advanced physics theoretical working group. And that's when John Alexander started saying, Oh, it was called the advanced physics theoretical working group. And he admitted that it was actually real. And then he said, but nobody took notes. And then I said, I immediately responded and said, I've got notes. And then he said, nobody's supposed to take notes. So, so I had these notes and I held them for 20 years. And then I released them. And the most important thing in there is
00:10:45
Speaker
Um, if you look at the, and you probably, probably nobody will realize this and I didn't realize Melinda Leslie picked this up and she had the Oak Shannon notes or the Jack Hough notes. And he was, he was a member of, um, uh, Boeing or McDonald Douglas at the time. And he was, he was in there and what John had done is he had tried to gather 20 people with top secret SCI clearances.
00:11:06
Speaker
to try to figure out, they were trying to get funding. They were doing exactly what ATIP did. We want to get this funding, what Elizondo is doing now. We get these people and we put pressure and we make our case and then we get this money to investigate
Historical Figures and Classified Meetings
00:11:19
Speaker
UFOs. That's what they're doing back there. And it all fell apart because they couldn't get anything.
00:11:23
Speaker
And they basically say in the Oak Shannon notes, they're not getting anywhere. There's this conversation at the end where the one guy says, are we to believe that there's a group there that's collecting this stuff and we don't have access? And then somebody else said on the panel said, yeah, I guess I would about sum it up. And so it was this idea that they had tried this thing and they had all these high level guys with top secret asset clearances, and they were sharing stories. It was like the Avery. They're all sharing stories trying to get to the bottom of this thing.
00:11:50
Speaker
But in the notes at the bottom of the Oak Shannon notes and one page and Melinda picked this up, it says the ATP10 and it's T-E-N, A-P-T 10. And so we're doing the one with Melinda Leslie. Melinda says, hey, hey, that's in the Wilson Lake document. And I'm just gonna, it is, it is. And she said, yeah, it's in there. And then somebody's screenshared it and showed it. And in the,
00:12:18
Speaker
the Wilson League document on the first page, you'll see AP10.
00:12:26
Speaker
And that means advanced physics 10. And in the Oak Shannon notes, it's ATP 10 advanced theoretical physics, but it's the same thing. So then the name was not advanced physics theoretical working group or advanced theoretical physics conference. It was the APT 10. That was the code name for the thing. And when I saw that, I went, holy cow. And what it says on there is the phone call. People don't realize this.
00:12:50
Speaker
So everybody knows that Oak Shannon talked to the Admiral and, and vouch for Eric Davis and said, Eric Davis is a good guy. You can talk to him, but most people realize, forget the fact that the phone call took place three years before the actual meeting with Eric Davis. So why is there's this big gap in between the two? And the thing was that, that so Oak had phoned the, the, the Admiral, he's maybe telling the story the other round. It looked like he phoned the Admiral and he said,
00:13:17
Speaker
Oh, I want you to talk to Eric Davis, because what happened is the same thing when they came to me when it's came to me said, we'd like to know about the Canadian propulsion they were doing 1950s. We'd know like to know about the, the whole thing with the hullman Air Force Base film, they had gone to Oak Shannon and said, Oh, you know, the admiral, there was this story in 1997, the admiral was briefed, and he believed that he got to the program and they got cut off.
00:13:41
Speaker
can you set up an interview with the admiral? So Shannon phones the admiral and says, oh, can you talk to my friend Eric Davis? Because they're trying to put the story together. They're trying to confirm this 1997 story where Greer and Mitchell and all these guys go in and this briefing takes place. They're trying to get more details on the story. NIDS was trying to do it on everything, black triangles and Catholic relations. They had all this money and these high level guys were being
00:14:07
Speaker
paid to try to figure this thing out. And so the thing was the phone call took place three years before and now if you read the first page, Wilson said, he said, I couldn't
Consciousness and UFO Craft Interaction
00:14:17
Speaker
do it. He said I was too busy. He said the time wasn't right. So if you take a look what happened, he was waiting to become the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
00:14:26
Speaker
And what happened was that was the three years between the phone call. So what happens is he, in the three years goes, then he retires and that's when he phones up. He tries to get back ahold of Shannon to get ahold of Eric Davis. And you see the conversation takes place. He couldn't get ahold of him. He couldn't, he wouldn't answer the phone and stuff like that. And that's what happens. He now he's retired. He's from DIA. They can't demote him anymore. They can't take any stars away.
00:14:52
Speaker
that's when he sets up the meeting with Eric Davis. He says, okay, I'm now ready to talk to Eric Davis. And then there's this arrangement made with these these guys and they set him up with Eric Davis. So that's what people don't realize is and the phone call between the first phone call in 1999, when when Shannon had the heart attack
00:15:10
Speaker
And he said, I couldn't move around, but I could sit in bed and I could make a phone call. The phone call was two hours long. And if you look at the first page of the Wilson leak document, it says that Oak Shannon briefed them on APT 10 or AP 10. He briefed them on these meetings that took place in 1985. Cause Wilson was saying, Oh, I tried to get at the bottom of this program and I got cut off. And he told me to get lost and hung up the phone on me.
00:15:33
Speaker
And then he said, hey, I was part of a group in 1985, and we will try to work on this thing. And the door was shut on us too. We couldn't get any. And so the phone call was two hours long. And he talks about talking for 10 minutes about remote viewing, which was in the Wilson leak document. And that's important because the remote viewing, there was a briefing that was done
00:15:56
Speaker
in the Shannon notes show that there's a briefing done by Hal put off on remote viewing. 1985, remote viewing would not be known until 1995. It was declassified with the CIA. Nobody knew what remote viewing was in 1985. It wasn't until 1995. So he tells, he has this to our phone call with the admiral and he tells him this whole thing. Oh, we had this, John Alexander and all these guys were there. We had this meeting and this gift and we couldn't get to the bottom. We were trying to figure it out and nobody knew it.
00:16:24
Speaker
And he's basically backing up the admiral story that we tried to get to the bottom of this thing, too. And we couldn't get to the bottom of this thing. And the phone call was two hours long. So he's briefing the admiral. So the admiral got a two hour briefing on this advanced physics theoretical working group. It was a top secret meeting that took place in a skiff in Virginia. So that's the most important part. And people can read the notes. And there's all this stuff about the different subjects that they discussed. And the big thing that they had, and apparently there's an article coming.
00:16:54
Speaker
There's this thing on the one page where they have back engineering and they have only one thing, Bobby Ray Inman across the page. And the whole thing was that we'd always known that Bobby Ray Inman was rumored to be the guy behind the back engineering. And there's actually a document people were asking me and it will relate to this article that's about to drop.
00:17:15
Speaker
but they're looking for a document from me from Senator Barry Goldwater, where Steven Greer was telling me a story that he had gone to Senator Barry Goldwater, and Barry Goldwater says, well, you know what, this is all this top secret. He says, well, Steven, who's running this thing? And he said, Bobby Rayman. And he said, really? Bobby Rayman's running this thing? He's my friend. He says, I'll phone him up.
00:17:35
Speaker
And I got this document, which I've now provided to some people who are writing an article where it confirms that Goldwater actually did talk to Bobby Reindman. And so you get this whole story and see there's all these back channels, but it always comes down to the thing that there's these people in the background.
00:17:51
Speaker
who know more than you and I, and I always talked about the Avery, whether it's John Alexander or Kit Green or all these Nolan and stuff. Like I said, you may agree or disagree with these guys, whether it's Alexander, it doesn't matter. You may agree or disagree, but listen very carefully, write everything they say down and cross index these things. And what you're going to realize is they're, they're all working for the same thing as you and I, they're all working on the levels and the why they stopped talking to me was the whole thing was one guy was approached. One of the very senior guys was approached.
00:18:19
Speaker
And he was asked this question. He may have heard this story. I said, um, could you name the 12 guys that are running the show? And he said, yeah, I could probably do that. And so the researcher said, well, so why don't you, why don't you do it? And he said, well, he said, if I did it, then you'd go to the New York times. They'd publish a story. I would have to deny it.
00:18:39
Speaker
And then nobody would ever talk to me again. And that's the whole thing. So whether it's Eric Davis or whether it's how I'll put off or get green or whatever, they're all trying to figure it out as well. So if they tell you and you leak it, that's what happened to me. If you leak it, then they get say like, like now Eric Davis is a big mouth man. Eric Davis had this document.
00:18:57
Speaker
You know, he talked and he didn't keep this document restricted. He gave a copy to Edgar Mitchell and leaked out and stuff like that. And then it was called to me, Eric Davis told me it was called Intelligence Blowback.
00:19:09
Speaker
So when something like this happens, you sit there and you sit there and wait, is there gonna be a blowback? Are you gonna lose your job? Are you gonna lose security clearance? And they wait to see what happens after the leak. Because if you're seen as a leaker, then nobody above you will talk to you. And that's how they're getting it. They're trying to move up the chain and try to talk to a senior person they can. Because they're trying to figure it out the same as you and I. You're trying to get a
The Phenomenon of Orbs and Consciousness
00:19:32
Speaker
good source. You're trying to interview somebody who might know something. They're trying to interview people who know something. And they're keeping it all secret
00:19:38
Speaker
But then you get this idea where, where Leslie Kane knew about this like 10 years before it was actually dropped and, and Jack valet and they kept it to themselves. They never released the thing. So we're all sitting there scrambling around the dark. And my thing is, whether it's right or wrong is the minute you get it, you put it out. I mean, you just drop the thing and I don't really care. People think that I can't keep a secret. There's no point to keep it a secret. It doesn't make any sense. It's crazy. We're doing this. We're sort of shooting ourselves in the head.
00:20:05
Speaker
So I guess the main thing with the Wilson Davis notes is that they were looking for the crash retrieval program where it was, who was running it. Do we know anything about that program or have we learned anything about any of the crash retrieval programs that may exist? Well, that's the thing. That's when you get into the rumor thing and that's when you listen to Eric Davis. And on one interview, Eric Davis, I think he was being interviewed by George Knapp.
00:20:28
Speaker
where he was putting down Bob Lazar. And he said, that Bob Lazar, he said, that's nonsense. He said, they shut down the removing program in 1989. And the stuff, the material isn't even started at Area 51. And then that's when George Knapp said, I think we just got to lead to tomorrow's story. I don't think he intended to say that. It indicated that he knew where the crash retrieval stuff was. But when he made this statement that they had shut the program down in 1989,
00:20:58
Speaker
because they couldn't get anywhere, that lines up with the core story. The core story is this core story where Jacques Bellet helped put off and who's the other one? Jacques Bellet get together and they sit in a Denny's restaurant. They say, there's all this garbage going around the UFO community. This is the 1980s. How do you separate the wheat from the chaff? What do we know for sure? And they came up with the conclusion, we know that we're being visited by something. We know that we have hardware and we're not being able to back engineer it. And that's where the idea of consciousness comes in.
00:21:28
Speaker
So in the Wilson League document at the very end, there's two things that people dispute that I like to talk about. And the one I'll leave, the one that says no abductions. So you get Edgar Mitchell said there's no abductions. Kid Green said there's no abductions. John Alexander said no abductions. Jack Belaise said no abductions. They're all saying the same thing. And it's in this document, people say, oh, that's just counterintelligence. They're lying to Wilson and stuff like that. But the other one was the thing that rang to me, because I've heard this before, is they said, we have a craft intact.
00:21:55
Speaker
And we think we think we, it'll fly. And when I heard that, I go, Oh, I know what that is. They've got a craft and they can't get it to fly. They can't turn it on. Cause I've just released a book called UFO sky pallets. And when I had the first meeting, all these people came to me, you cannot find this stuff on the internet. And that's the thing is all these 36 people are more than that came to me and started telling me this story about the fact that they told the craft, which makes no sense. Why would the aliens let you fly the flying saucer? It just makes no sense whatsoever.
00:22:22
Speaker
And then when I asked the first woman that told me, and she was in her seventies, I said, they let you fly the craft. I'm thinking in the back of my head, like I'm thinking of Saudi Arabian women. They can't drive a car unless there's a male in the car. And I'm going, and they would let you fly the car. I met a 70 year old lady. She said, why have you flown three different models? I said, really? So how do you fly a craft? She says, Oh, you do it with your mind. And as soon as I heard that, I knew what, why they had set me up to talk to this woman. And that's this whole thing is they've got an intact craft.
00:22:50
Speaker
and they think it will fly, but they can't fly it because it needs a consciousness interface. The same as on your cell phone. You can use your face print or your fingerprint or whatever. You need something to turn it on and they can't turn it on. They've got an intact craft.
00:23:03
Speaker
And that's comes to this idea of consciousness is that this idea that, that consciousness is a big part of this thing that, that people will describe. They go on board the ship. They put their hand on a panel. Chris Bledsoe put his hand on what he called like a beehive in the middle of the thing, or you put your hand on a panel. One guy over Liverpool, England told me, there's a panel on the wall. He put his hand against, you become one with the craft. The craft is alive. The craft is AI. It's, it's actually alive. It's biological material. It's alive.
00:23:31
Speaker
You put your hand on, you become one to the craft and whatever you think is what the craft does. And then the beings will tell you, go within yourself. Imagine where you want to go. And the one guy said, they asked him, where would you like to go? And he said, I'd like to see the Milky Way from a distance. And they said, okay.
00:23:47
Speaker
Imagine where you want it. It's within you. And this is this whole idea. Is there time and space or is it all inside us? Is it all a video game? Is it all a hologram? A hologram and we're in this hologram and there is nothing out there. As John Wheeler said, the physicist who was the guy that took over for Einstein at Princeton said, there's no out there out there. And this idea that it's all inside yourself. That's what they said. It's within you.
00:24:17
Speaker
Just imagine where you want to go. And he said, one second later, he looked out the window and there was a Milky Way off in a distance, which was 50 to 70,000 light years in one second. And that's why I say.
00:24:26
Speaker
If you get that, then you got to start believing the consciousness story that these people are telling, or you got to discount the whole time space theory, because if that story is true, and I've got 36 people, not one, I think Nolan says, one case is an anecdote, two cases is evidence, and 36 cases to me is something you need to investigate. 14%, if you're familiar with the free survey,
00:24:50
Speaker
They did 3000 experiences of the people who answered the question. 14% of the people said they've flown the craft. So you start looking at this whole idea and they'll all say the same thing. It's like they read off a cue card. You say, I even said to the guy, the guy who's the US Air Force retired Colonel. He didn't come to lecture. This was in Orange County, California. He didn't come to lecture.
00:25:10
Speaker
And so we're at the restaurant after, and then this David guy walks in and he said, David, David, oh, you shouldn't have been a grand lecture. He was talking about flying the craft, telling me your story. And then he said, David looks at me. I said, you flew the craft. He said.
00:25:21
Speaker
I think it was a dream. And I said, everybody thinks it's a dream. Did you have the, did you have that thing of a flying car? Yeah, but I think it was a dream. And I said, well, everybody thinks it's a dream. And then they said, David, David, tell them, tell them what you're a pilot. I said, you're a pilot. I said, my father's a pilot. My son's a pilot. I said, what have you flown? And he said, F4s. And he said, F16s. I went, F16s. You flew X16s. And he said, yeah, yeah. And I said, well, what? And he said, well, I'm a US ever, I'm a retired Colonel. I flew in Iraq.
00:25:49
Speaker
And I go sit down, tell me your dream. And then it's the same thing. It's like they come into the ship, the beings are behind them. The beings are the humans. They don't know if the humans are beings. Everybody describes these beings are behind them. And they say, go ahead and do it. And he and this David guy says, I didn't know what to do. And then they all did. They say the same line. They say, you know what to do. Just do it. And then there's this panel on the panel. He goes to put his hands on the panel. And he said, suddenly it's like flying an F-16. He's flying the craft.
00:26:15
Speaker
And he's going wow this is and everything he thinks is what the craft is doing and he takes his one hand off the panel.
00:26:21
Speaker
to, uh, he thinks it's going to stall. He's going to put his hand back down on the belt, takes his hand off and he's still flying the craft and he's whatever he's thinking to the craft is going. And then he takes his other hand, but he leaves it like an inch off and he's going to slam it down because he figures it's going to stall and nothing happens. And he's got his hands off the panel and he's flying the craft and it's just in his mind. And everybody is like to read off a cue card. When you get everybody telling exactly the same story, except for the thing, one's a ball, one's a panel, stuff like this, but this idea that you, you interact with the craft, the craft is alive.
00:26:50
Speaker
You become one and then you have to think of what you want and it's, it's within you. And that comes to this whole idea about about experience. Are we going within ourselves or are we actually going out there as, or as Steven Greer used to say, there's a puny, there's a, there's a Sufi expression. You see yourself as a puny being when within you isn't folded the universe. And this is this really wild idea when it, I say it gets more complex as you go on. Is it true that everything is actually in you? So when you do remote viewing, you're not going anywhere.
00:27:20
Speaker
You're going within yourself. It's all within you and you get the material. That's why remote viewers, you'll see instantaneously. They're at the target. You say the number is six, seven, three, seven, four. And then you just go, Oh, it's a desert. I think it looks like a desert. They're at the target instantaneously.
00:27:35
Speaker
And that's this whole idea that it's going to be way more complex and it has this, uh, consciousness component that when you read the, read this book on sky paths, you can't deny it because everybody's telling the same story. Oh, you use your mind. And I thought when I first heard, I thought this woman was absolutely insane. And then it made sense exactly. And then everybody's told me the same story since then. And I've gotten, I got 50 people, but I got 36 on the record in the book that described this whole story.
00:28:05
Speaker
Certainly begs the question, when you get that many witnesses saying the same thing, that it certainly warrants further investigation, absolutely. Now one thing I really wanted to talk to you about, I've had conversation with quite a few friends about, we mentioned it before we came on, was orbs. Orbs seem to be everywhere. I hear witnesses and people talking about them all the time and there's
00:28:25
Speaker
different color orbs, predominantly blue and orange seem to be the most I hear about. Orbs that look like they're made of plasma, some that are a bit more solid. Different sizes, some small and close to the ground, sometimes even in people's houses, some large and in the sky. Where do we start with orbs? They've been around for a long time. I'll tell you what, before you start, I'm just going to go and open my window and I'll let you start. I can still hear you.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it starts way before. And that's where I always point out to people that you've got to keep in mind that what happened today didn't happen in the 1970s when I started. It was a completely different world. Everything says it's the same world. When we first saw what would now be called orbs, we called them ground lights. We didn't even know what to call them. The first year, the UFOs were flying around this town, the big ones.
00:29:18
Speaker
And then in the next year, suddenly they were on the ground and they were these, first I saw them, they were oranges, oranges. They were completely orange. I got within the first night I got within about 50 feet. I was going to jump on this thing. I was so close to it. I was going to jump on it. I was filming over an eight millimeter movie camera. And then after that, we couldn't really get close and we tried to surround it. We tried all this stuff and we photographed an infrared. This is back in the seventies. And I remember talking to the head of the Canadian government program
00:29:46
Speaker
The guy who ran the metallurgy stuff were Wilbur Smith. So Wilbur Smith ran the Canadian government flying saucer program. And this was his metallurgist who worked for the Department of Defense. And we didn't want to talk to me. Wilbur Smith had died.
Scientific and Cultural Perspectives on Orbs
00:30:02
Speaker
His wife said,
00:30:03
Speaker
art, you need to talk to Grant. And so I went there and he was, he said, I don't remember the reason I'm talking to you is because Merle said, I got to talk to you. And I said, we've got these things on the ground over there in around Carmen. I said, and he lived pretty close. So they're on the ground there. We don't know what these things are. We're trying to surround them and stuff. He said, Oh, you mean, you mean monitors? And I went, Oh yeah, monitors. I didn't want to play like I was dumb. So I played along with, I go, yeah, monitors. Yeah, yeah, monitors. And he said, Oh yeah. We had those back in the 1950s.
00:30:30
Speaker
And they called the monitors because they were monitoring the UFO group. And Wilbur Smith, there's actually one, I think an audio, where he actually talks about this, where they come out of one of the UFO meetings, and this thing's in the ditch, and it turns its light off in the ditch. It's there, they can all see it, and it turns its light off. So we saw them, and they were like orbs, and there's actually one now they've still got. There's two of them. So they're different types. So when they were back then, there were objects maybe this big,
00:30:57
Speaker
very intense and and what was called we call the dead light which you'll see descriptions in people inside the craft where they'll describe the light in a room the room is open to the next room but the light doesn't cast into the next room it's cut off like it's
00:31:12
Speaker
And that's what I noticed when I saw this one, I was 50 feet away from it. And I was looking at this thing and all I could think about was, it was on the edge of this bridge, this wooden bridge. And there was the wooden railings down this bridge and it was this far from the edge of the bridge. And I'm looking at this thing and I'm going, why is it not lighting up the bridge? Because it was so bright, you couldn't even look at it, but it's just tremendously bright. And it was just this faint orange glow on the side of the bridge. And I'm going, why is it not lighting up the bridge? It was like, and so we called them dead lights.
00:31:41
Speaker
And we could actually tell whether it was a car or whether it was one of these orbs by looking at binoculars. And when you look at binoculars with car lights, you'll actually see the beams coming off the car light. And then all of a sudden we'd look at it and there'd be a dead light. There'd be no beams coming off this thing. So it was like a contained light. So when I saw that, and then the orbs really got taken off when the digital cameras. So that's when people said, oh, you're photographing dust and all this kind of stuff.
00:32:08
Speaker
And the fact of that is, if you're photographing dust, every photograph should have, especially if you're living in Arizona or like the Sahara Desert or something, every single photograph should have like piles of orbs in it and they don't. And so that's when it started and everybody figured, well, it was this extended range of a digital camera, it has a little bit on each end and these things are
00:32:28
Speaker
are in that spectrum outside the visible range and so then uh it was it was okay it's all digital cameras doing this and we don't know what it is but it's it's the digital cameras doing it and then I've just written an article it's on my White House UFO blog site where I actually show photographs and we have a lot of photographs we started going back and looking and there are orb photographs exactly the same
00:32:50
Speaker
One for the I show one from 1976 from a wedding wedding couple there's a clear one of these clear, you know, white orbs on the on the guys pants, and so they did happen before digital or more common after digital.
00:33:05
Speaker
And so I started to gather these things and I still wasn't really that interested. Then I saw some of these collections that people had, they're huge collections. I would say that there's probably, the collections I know, I would say there's gotta be a million and a half orb photographs around the world.
00:33:21
Speaker
that are all over the place. There's Hong Kong, there's Scotland, Macedonia, United States, and all these people who've got these collections. And it becomes the old deal is once people have got one or two orb photographs, then they're out every night and they're trying to photograph these things. And then they start picking up beings and they start picking up all sorts of other stuff like actual beings. And it just was so incredible when I saw some of these collections. So I started having panels where I'd bring these people on
00:33:47
Speaker
with these collections and just get them to go through and they're they're almost uh like um i say they're like crop circles that you may not know where they're coming from or what's going on but it comes to my theory of wow the the reason i think that the the beings are putting down crop circles rather than landing and giving you a message is the fact that you want they want you to go wow look at that take photographs and they want everybody to photograph it
00:34:10
Speaker
or like cattle relations, like why do they do this bizarre thing with the catalyst? They don't take out one eye. They do all this bizarre stuff because they want you to take photographs. They want you to go in there. That's what the whole idea is. They want, they want a message and because to me, cattle relations is very simple. It's downwind and downstream from nuclear power. They did all the above ground atomic tests there.
00:34:29
Speaker
And that's where all the cattle regulations took place. And they want you to photograph it. And you may not know what's going on, but somebody in the government is going, you see where that cattle regulation was? Holy cow. And they know exactly what's going on. And so it was this theory of, wow, that the orbs, some of these collections, we just did one with this, Darrell Stokes, absolutely unbelievable collection out of Sedona, Arizona. And he's taken thousands and thousands of photographs and he's got just the most bizarre collection of stuff
00:34:58
Speaker
And it's all different. And that's where do you find with UFOs? So people can get on to think about the tic-tacs. Oh, there's tic-tacs. And everybody starts looking for tic-tacs.
00:35:06
Speaker
And it's the old idea. They can look like whatever they want. They can move themselves. That's where this idea where the craft is, is the size of a football field inside and outside is just a little tiny thing. So that gets to the idea that it could be a little ball, a little rock, and inside there's a whole civilization inside this rock because they can make the inside of the rock as big as they want. And that's where all our ideas of materialism and how the world works all start to fall apart.
00:35:31
Speaker
but the orb is almost to me like a crop circle thing it's just and and they change them they become almost more magnificent and the colors what I learned with the colors we had these shooting parties so one girl like some people say oh it's digital cameras or it's it's um cell phone cameras iphone cameras they're they work and and then this one girl was using a point and shoot and she was getting really good photographs so she lives just north of the city and she thought it was because her her land was on aboriginal land and that's why she's getting all these orb photographs
00:36:01
Speaker
So we had an orb party and we would all get, we all went and got digital or point and shoot cameras, the old point and shoot cameras. And we went out there and we'd all shoot at the same time. And then we'd compare photographs and we went out there and what we noticed were some things like, like the longer you do it, the more complex your, your, your orbs will get. So when this first started, my assistant, his name is Desta, she's a, she's a channeler.
00:36:23
Speaker
When she first was getting up, she was the same as me. She was getting these black and white, just sort of white orbs type thing. And the more she shot, then she said, I was getting colors. I got some colors. I got red ones and stuff. And you could see she was starting to get colors and stuff like that, that the longer you go on, it seems the more complex the phenomena becomes in terms of the orbs that you get. But the thing that bothers me is people will categorize them as the different colors and stuff.
00:36:47
Speaker
I was talking to the guy today and he was assigning them to angels, different types of archangels, the different colors. But what's come now is the thing about the blue meanies, which really upsets me, is this idea that the skinwalkers of the Pentagon book put this thing. They're doing this whole deal about evil aliens and the aliens out to eat us and all this kind of stuff. And the blue meanies are the ones you got to look out for, these blue orbs. They're terrible.
00:37:12
Speaker
And I knew instinctively that Betty Andreessen, who's had six books written about her abduction experience. She had got her first experience in 1944. She's seen the beings her whole entire life. And I would ask questions to her and her husband. I'd say, hey, let me ask you a question. You know, like this thing, when you saw the being in 1944, is this the same being you're seeing now? And they go, yep. I say, did I ever get any older? They go.
00:37:36
Speaker
Nope. Never got any older. And then the husband said, Oh yeah, but aliens are the long time. It was like this, you know, you're trying to justify it. And I said, you know, this is this idea that when you look at aliens, you start asking questions like I ask, and it doesn't make any sense. Like, why would they not get older? You're wet. You're a six year old girl. Now you're 80 years old and you've completely changed. And the alien looks exactly the same. Or you saw it in the last lifetime. It was the same in the last lifetime. Or I would say to people, Hey, did you hit the alien? And they go, yeah. Do you have any clothes on? They go,
00:38:04
Speaker
No, did not, did not seem unusual to you. And they go, yeah, I never thought about that. Had no clothes on. And then that's it organs. They're raping our women. That's the story. They're raping women there. And I said, do you have any sex organs? I've never had anybody ever say an alien had sex organ. They say, no. And I'd say, what didn't you think that was unusual? And they go,
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah, that was kind of unusual. I never thought about that. And so you see these patterns, these weird patterns, but they can appears whatever they want. So they're, they're, they're making it more complex. And the blue meanies, we've got also, I'm gathering the stories now, other than the skinwalker thing. I've never had anybody say the blue meanies were, they're all say that they're.
00:38:42
Speaker
their angels or their guardians or their all this kind of stuff. And what that turns into is this whole idea about the the the sort of the people who have injuries, which is another thing I look at. So what I say is that when you have this skin rocker thing, the three guys that the Special Forces guys
00:39:00
Speaker
They were walking down the road and they followed them home. They had the hitchhiker effect and hitchhiker effect happens everywhere. It happens in ghost stories. I tell the story of the one guy, he had the one ghost. I would tell the whole ghost story, but he wanted this ghost to appear. The ghost appears in his black form.
00:39:16
Speaker
And he said for five years, he couldn't get rid of the same for five years. It followed him to three different houses. So the hitchhiker effect has got nothing to do with you. It's got to do with paranormal phenomena. It'll follow you whether it's a ghost or, or whatever. If you get attached to it, it'll follow you home. And that's why people do these protection things, but the, the, the, you know, the laid around them and all this kind of stuff. So when it comes to the stuff, when, when, when, when it came to, for example, the runners from forest. So I looked at the runners from forest case and you had Gabanzac and you had,
00:39:42
Speaker
Burrows and you had peniston and they were there and this thing flared up. Okay, so then they say oh burrows got injured I mean, this is uh, you know, this is uh, the Aliens are dangerous and all this kind of stuff and I say well Why if it was this in this terror hurts thing? There's a radiation thing. Why did the other two guys not get injured?
00:40:03
Speaker
And I've asked Burrows that, and that's the whole thing. They should have all got injured. It was radiation. And the thing was, if you hear the story told by Kabanzek, they were there, and this thing flared up. And Kabanzek was in the back. Jordan Burrows was there. And Penniston was the closest. He never got injured. Penniston touched the thing. He never got injured. I was close five times within 100 yards. I never got injured in the 1970s. And the thing was, when it flared up,
00:40:28
Speaker
Peniston yelled open fire. Burrows pulled his gun. They were supposed to have guns outside the Air Force base. And he said, I don't remember taking the gun. We usually handed our guns in before we left the base to go on British territory. And he pulled his gun and he's the guy that got zapped. So when they came to the skinwalker, these three guys that have these things fall at home, I said, I kept asking, were these guys armed? Were these guys armed?
00:40:52
Speaker
And people say, well, I don't know. And then finally it's confirmed. Yeah. There's special forces guys. They were armed. So they were hunting the skinwalker. And suddenly the part of the story they leave out of the book that I've heard, and I'm trying to confirm, I know who said it, but I'm trying to find the audio of who they said. You know how they said they came to this cold area and then they got all scared and then they moved it and they moved away and it went away. Then they went back into the cold. The thing that they leave out is the thing that they all got a voice in their head. And the voice said, leave. You are not welcome. That's what they heard in their head.
00:41:22
Speaker
And when, so when they took these things home and they had the blue meanies and all this kind of stuff, that's where the story came from. The thing was, these guys were armed. Same as I heard a story now about a portal and the woman said, oh, these two guys went in a portal and the one guy died and the one, one guy had his cancer come back. And I said, Oh, were they armed? They're in Georgia. Were they armed? Well, yeah.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I said, uh, they went in the portal and the other special forces guys that went in there and I said they were armed. Yeah. And it was the whole idea is when I always said, if you're going to a C five, don't take a gun with you. Because I tell the story. One of the things I found in the stat and treatment files that I found most interesting when I, the first thing I wanted to look for, I want to see the Cuban case. Do you have the file in the Cuban case says, yeah, we've actually got that. We've got it filed already.
00:42:07
Speaker
So I went down to the Cuban case was 1967 when a UFO was coming in over Cuba and the, they scrambled the two jets and the wing man is, is, is in behind and he's, he's talking and the U S Navy intelligence out of Florida picks up this communication and they're listening to the Cuban fighter jets and, and, and he's going along and then you hear this, you know, lock on the warning lock on and the guy in behind.
00:42:35
Speaker
is watching the front guy, the front guy locks on to shoot this thing down and boom, the thing's gone. He's just disintegrated. The whole plane is disintegrated. Now the national choir filed an FOA. They fought with this. The FBI was involved. I won't get into the whole story, but there was a lot of people trying to figure out the story. Stanton Freeman was one. He got this guy that leaked the story to him and that's what the file I was looking for. And that's the whole thing is when you lock on, get ready. I mean, make sure your insurance is paid up.
00:43:00
Speaker
you know, make sure your will is done because I mean, it could go bad and it's reflective thing. If you listen to, um, uh, the guy who in skinwalker ranch, uh, Brandon fugal, Brandon fugal says when they land there, they always say a prayer. He's a big Mormon guy and he says it's got a reflective character and that's what George Knapp said.
00:43:19
Speaker
The people that had the worst experiences at the ranch were the people that were the most aggressive to the phenomena and is the whole idea that that he said it reflective is this idea that if you're in a bad mood.
00:43:32
Speaker
And you, you bring that on, get ready. Or if you remember the book, um, uh, Michael Talbot wrote a book. He was an experiencer. He wrote the book, the holographic universe, the famous holographic universe book. Now he was an experiencer. He was a client of Bud Hopkins and he wrote this book and he tells the story about a poltergeist. And when he was a kid, he had all these poltergeist experiences going on. And he said, when he was in a good mood, the poltergeist would hang the plants, hang the socks off the plants in his room. And when he was a bad mood, he'd wake up with needles.
00:44:01
Speaker
needle marks and cuts in his arm. And that's his idea. It's reflective. It's reflecting your, your, your, your mentality. And that's what Brandon Fuegal says. It's reflective. And they warn people when they come on to the skinwalker ranch to be careful of not challenging this thing, not, you know, doing this sort of thing. It's the whole idea. When you want to hunt the skinwalker, be ready for the skinwalker to turn around and hunt you back. And it, you always see this reflective that the phenomena is
00:44:30
Speaker
is part of us. We're part of the experience that there's not this them in us. We're part of what we're seeing. Yeah. Cause that, I mean, that's interesting because sometimes, and I get this a lot of people talking about whether the beings are malevolent or benevolent, but maybe they're neither. It just depends how you ask is to what you're saying. It's they react to you and your, your state of mind. And that's one of the things I'm working on right now is this whole thing. I'm writing a book called the evil alien.
00:44:57
Speaker
and that's this whole idea that in our material world we want to separate things we want to separate there's all nouns and when you when you start looking at this idea of the consciousness flying the craft and consciousness being primary and that God didn't create the heaven and the earth God created the sparks of the divine and we're creating it with our minds we're creating
00:45:14
Speaker
It's the whole idea that the early quantum physics guys, this idea that a material object does not come into the material world until it's observed, until it's measured, that we are part of the experiment and that we're creating this universe. It's like a video game, but we're the creators of this video game and it's a loop. So we take information in, we have experience, we put it back into the system.
00:45:37
Speaker
The system, the whole system becomes more smarter, more magnificent. And we're, it's this loop that we're inputting and we're exporting at the same time. And everything just gets bigger. So it's a thing that we have to keep in mind that there's separation. And I think the number one message of the beings is oneness. Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. It's this idea that everything is connected. Everything is one. That's why they give these warnings about
00:46:06
Speaker
the planet, that you're destroying the planet, that you're part, and we didn't have ecology. 1933, I think, the idea of ecology started. We didn't even have the idea that we have an input on the universe, on the world. We now know that you can't just dump your stuff into the river and stuff. We didn't have that idea before. It's this idea that you're part of the system that you're in, and that's the idea they're trying to get to us. And when you realize you're one, this idea that you've got to see the thing in your mind, and you can go 100,000 light years in one second,
00:46:34
Speaker
That it's all one thing, and that the beings are part of us that you may be, if you may be part of that being you may have been a being before so if somebody says, Oh, I think the grades are evil I say well do you believe we're inclination Yeah, what happens if you're born a great next time, are you evil now. I mean it's it's insane it's the, the idea that that everybody's inputting and and and putting out.
00:46:56
Speaker
And that the beings are just simply, I think they're higher than us. They're at a higher vibration than us. And they realize everything's all touristic. We're the only ones that have this separation idea. Everybody has this idea that you're, you're part of the universe. Or one guy said, he had, he was abducted by the grays and he was talking to the tall gray and he was really upset. He didn't like them at all. And he said, the tall gray, let me give you, let me ask you why you tell me, tell me what's your concept of God. And he said, the tall gray said, we are one with the one.
00:47:25
Speaker
who is all and he said, I was so blown away. I had to sit down so I couldn't believe it. And this idea that it's all one thing and that they're part of, you're part of the universe. You're part of the system. And when you get that, then you realize you're going to cut your own arm off if you, if you kill, but we have this idea that there's a separation between me and you so I can kill you. I can steal your stuff. But when you realize that that's all going to come back, even the idea of near-death experiences that we now know when you start to look at how magnificent the universe, how complex it is, people will talk about this life review.
00:47:54
Speaker
out in the near-death experience where you go into life review and you replay every event of your life, but you see it from the other person's perspective. So I do something to you and I can see the pain that I caused you, but you've got to realize somebody will see 5,000 people in their lifetimes. So this 5,000 people are all linked and it's all linked back in. And somehow the universe puts it all into one little thing that takes place in one second and you start looking. Then you realize how complex the universe actually is and how it's all
00:48:23
Speaker
finally tuned, it's all mathematical the constants and everything's exactly the way it's supposed to be. And that we have we have created this and it just gets more and more magnificent. So it would start as a very simple thing and the and the consciousnesses grow and they make atoms
00:48:38
Speaker
Even the idea of evolution, where people say, oh, evolution. And I say, well, OK, how did the first hydrogen atom get? You have this thing going around, whatever it's doing around the nucleus and stuff like that has been doing that for 13.7 million years. Where did it learn to do that? I mean, it's like you start realizing that something has to be behind this complex. Because every time you go to something as simple as the hydrogen atom, you realize how complex it is. And the subatomic particles and the movement and all this kind of stuff
00:49:08
Speaker
And the UFO thing is just sort of an example of that thing that's showing the universe is much more complex and magnificent than you think it is. And that's why I remind people, it's like for you to be the World Cup. You are in the World Cup of all games. I mean, this is it, man. You got to be in the game. You're playing in this game and most people outside the stadium don't even know this game going on. And we got to be in the game and we got to appreciate the fact that we're on the leading edge of this thing and we can see this magnificent
00:49:37
Speaker
Aspect to the universe that other people don't see and we realize that it's a more than than just a physical Material we're more than biological robots running around in a random random meaningless universe And that's what they're showing us that but it's this concept of oneness that we're all connected And that's what people will say was with the psychedelics. I did the book on psychedelics I had the experiment and people will say I mean the famous musicians thing where he goes and does the ayahuasca and he said when he when he did it and then he said I suddenly realized everything was alive conscious and one
00:50:07
Speaker
that's what it's about. Everything is a live conscious in one and that's where you get the craft. They say, will we ever have AI? Will you ever be able to take consciousness and put it into a machine? They got it backwards. The consciousness creates the machine. So it's the whole idea of when you use bio boards, when you start using biology,
00:50:24
Speaker
to manage biology and put information into biology, which I think they're starting to do now. They're starting to figure out how do you put information into the thing so then you can build a ship that is conscious and it's made out of biological material. It's not made out of metal. It may seem that way, but it's alive. It's conscious. It seems like as a race, we've got a lot to learn, whether it be about the universe, physics and ourselves consciousness. So some very interesting thought.
00:50:51
Speaker
thought experiments and thought provoking statements you made there. I find that really fascinating. Now we've been talking about orbs earlier and one case that really intrigues me and I know a lot of other people is the Christopher Bledsoe case because orbs are really prominent in that. Now I think we've all heard the kind of the story down by the river and we've heard about the lady but
00:51:11
Speaker
One thing I've struggled to find much more information is just about everything in between with his connections to NASA and intelligence people. And I know that you've been a part of that case, and I think you've visited Chris many times if I'm not wrong. Just once. I had a bizarre story so I could tell you about it. But I wrote about him in a book called Alien Bedtime Stories. I wrote about him in 2014. I met him in 2013.
00:51:41
Speaker
And it was one of these synchronistic things where I met him at an event called The Gathering. I didn't know who he was. It was people all gathered around him. I guess they'd sort of heard his story or whatever. And I remember I was sitting with his wife in the bus and she was saying, she was just showing me her cell phone with the daughter. And she was doing tap dancing or something and singing. And so, look at my daughter. And that's Chrissy's thing. I'm not really into that. And look at my daughter. She's innocent. She's all into her daughter's tap dancing or whatever.
00:52:05
Speaker
And so then I still didn't talk to Chris, but then what happened was I was lecturing, I was at the citizens hearing and I was going to Florida to lecture and I would go right within five miles of this place. So I said, Chris, can I stop by and see you? And he said, oh yeah, he's the most hospitable guy in the whole world. He said, yeah, sure, stop in.
00:52:25
Speaker
So I stopped in there and I had the, what's called the burning tree, which people know the story about the burning tree where, where he has this, it burns three times in six hours and they keep putting it out with this hose and it keeps lighting up or whatever. And so anyway, um,
00:52:41
Speaker
I went there and then what happened was my bizarre story that I knew it was a real deal was I'm sitting in the living room with him and I'm ready to go to Florida and I was going to stop on the way back, but I said, I'm going to head to Florida. I got to make it there by whatever time. And so we're sitting there and his wife and kids are all left and we were playing on Facebook and all of a sudden Chris goes, but he didn't back in the room. He's got three dogs. He got a big black.
00:53:08
Speaker
lab, which his name was Nelly. And then he's got a medium sized dog. It's all mixtures. Then he got a little chihuahua. So he's three different dogs, two different sized. And he's, how do you get back in the house? And until you get up and we walked the front door, the front door is wide open. And he goes, put some out. He says, you know, get out there. I don't know how the front door got open. He closes the door. So I leave and I go to Florida and I get to Florida. And there's an email from Chris and he says, you know, it happened twice more after you left. And he said, I, I, I went back in the living room and suddenly the dogs are back in the house.
00:53:36
Speaker
And it went in the front doors, wide open. And then I put them out and then I went to the bathroom and I came out of the bathroom and the dogs back on those front doors, wide open. And I thought to myself, yeah, you left the door open. You left the door open. And this is where I had this idea of the theory of wows. What is the phenomenon actually doing? So I didn't know. I mean, the door was being left open. So when I go back, this happens within 10 minutes after I come back. So I get back and for whatever reason, I had the camera on the front seat. I don't know what it was. I had the camera sitting on the front seat.
00:54:05
Speaker
I go back and I want to take some more pictures of the burning tree. So I says, let's go and I take some pictures of tree. We come back. We're standing on the back concrete patio outside his back door.
00:54:15
Speaker
And we're talking and Nellie is right in behind us, the big black lab. And she's chewing on this, on this gourd and she's chewing on it. And, and she's right there, right on the edge of the grass. And then, um, he says, why do you want to go to the house? I said, yeah. Okay. So we're going to go to the house and you know, a dog wants to get in the house before you, and you open the door. So Chris is here. I'm here. And the dog is on my left hand side.
00:54:39
Speaker
And the dog goes running by me. We're going in the door. And then I hear Chris say, Nelly, Nelly, what happened to you? And I look at the dog. The dog is there and the blood is not the dog's neck, like a, like a host.
00:54:53
Speaker
And he's shooting out and it's all over the walls. And he grabs it by the collar and he pulls it back out and the blood is coming out the door. And he says, Nellie, Nellie, what happened to you? And he lies there down on this patio thing, concrete patio. And Nellie's just lying there very nicely. And so the sun comes out and he says, I'll shoot that raccoon. I said, there was no raccoon. We're standing right here.
00:55:14
Speaker
And then I'll shoot the dog. Then I'm going to shoot it. He's got this automatic rifle and it's like, holy cow. And then I said, no, Chris, this is Chris Jr. Who was actually in the event. He was in the event there. And I said, Chris, no, no, there was no, there was no raccoon. There's no dog. We would have heard it. It's something that bit the dog. We would have heard it. And then, but what happened was as soon as, as soon as I saw that the blood, I said, this is weird. And I go run into the car and I grabbed my camera and I come back and start photographing this.
00:55:44
Speaker
And so I took photographs of Chris and this is what Chris learned to heal. He didn't heal before they put, he had a rag and the rag you'll see in the picture, it's all full of blood. He's got the rag on the dog's neck. And then he takes, he takes it up and the dog gets up, wags her tail.
00:56:00
Speaker
goes running around the house. I go chasing after the dog. No more blood. The dog barks at the front door once and goes running into the neighbor's yard. And so the thing was, was the way it appeared to me was you weren't, you weren't amazed when we were opening the front door. Watch this. And when I looked, cause it was on my side,
00:56:18
Speaker
So when it bought, went by me, how long does it take a dog to run by you? Like a 10th of a second. You see the side of my pants, the side of my pants were completely covered with blood up and down my pants. It was like, it was standing there for five minutes, shooting blood on my pants. And I'm looking at the pants. I go, holy cow. So I never really, for a month, I didn't wash the pants. I said, man, I got these famous pants, man, with the blood, all of them and stuff like that.
00:56:38
Speaker
And it was like, watch this. You're not, you're not, you're not amazed. And it was just, I was just floored. I was, I was, and then so Chris and I have a discussion after, but what happened? And he said, Oh, that was the, that was the shadow people. And I said, what do you mean the shadow people? And he had told me about the shadow people. It was these two dimensional shadow people run around.
00:56:55
Speaker
along the wall and go right through the wall into the next room and they were around all the time and they would all, everybody in the family had seen them. I interviewed everybody in the family. They all said, yeah, we'd seen the shadow people. And then you hear footprints walking through the ceiling and stuff like that. And this happens in poltergeist cases as well. And then I would say to them, Hey, you saw a shadow people. Did you see the one with the hat? He said, yeah, I saw the one with the hat. And it's like,
00:57:17
Speaker
what the heck like why is a shadow person wearing a hat but he saw the one with the hat and uh so anyway he he said it was the shadow people i said what would be shadow people and he said well they they're evil and i said well how do you know they're evil and he said well they're dark and i said well it's just because they're dark doesn't mean they're evil you know what i think he was you know why i think they did it and he said why i said because you're doing at that time he was there was going to be a movie with warner brothers and mill gibson wanted to do the movie and and uh
00:57:45
Speaker
Julia Roberts was going to play Diane Pasulka, the religion professor. So they were going to do it. And so I said, you're doing a movie. They want this in the movie. They want this. Because in a movie, if you go to a movie and it's just like people sitting on the beach drinking Mai Thais for 25 minutes, you're going to get a walk out. You want this thing. The dog's bleeding and the guy's trying to overcome his disease. And he's trying to fight off the evil guys. You want a roller coaster. Some people are sitting on the edge of their seat.
00:58:14
Speaker
And I said, that's what they want. And he said, no, no, I don't think so. And then about two weeks later, he says, have you still got those photos of the dog? I said, yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker
He said, uh, can, uh, we can word of rather get a copy of those. And if they're going to put it in whatever he does, whatever movie, this is going to be one of the, this, the stories that they're going to tell. And that's where I got this idea that they're, they're doing it. So I knew it was the real deal from then, but that's when he was able to heal. And if you've seen some of the photos, people send him clothes and they put the clothes inside the tree and people are praying. I saw him do a healing. Um, I saw two things. Now this gets into this thing about the government people. I was at a conference with him in,
00:58:52
Speaker
And he said, I couldn't tell you this. And he would take me into his room. And he would show me stuff on the computer. I couldn't tell you till now. Now I can tell you this stuff. And he would show me all the stuff on the computer of these things that he had seen and photographed and stuff like that. And he did a healing there just before my lecture. He was standing out front. And these two women, they were in their 70s. They were twins. And one had had a stroke. And she was deaf.
00:59:19
Speaker
And they came up to Chris and said, can you heal my sister? Can you heal my sister? And he said, I didn't know what to do. So I said, in the name of Jesus, he put his hands on his ears. I pray you be healed and stuff like this. So she came out of my lecture and she was yelling, I can hear, I can hear, I heard everything, I heard everything Grant said.
00:59:36
Speaker
I was like, holy cow. And what happened was he got a message from this Tim Taylor guy. So Tim Taylor is this NASA guy that's the secret. And I've actually met this guy. I was with him, Chris and him in a cottage in 2013. And I got a real wild story that gets to do with, do they have time travel, which I think they may have. But anyway, so he shows me, he says, Tim emails at the same time he gets a text message
01:00:04
Speaker
And he said, if you're ever outside a hotel and someone asks for a healing, go ahead and do it. I said, he said that. He said, yeah. And then we go to this meeting, you know, at Lanchold, the people go to a restaurant or something. So we're on this restaurant. And two of the girls had said they were going to ask Chris for a healing. I don't know what the deal was, but they're going to ask for Chris for healing.
01:00:23
Speaker
So all these people are there and I'm there and these two girls are there and then people start to leave. And then I realized that just me and the two girls and Chris, I don't want to interfere with what they're going to do. So I said, Oh, okay. I'm going to head off to the lecture. See you later. These two girls were there. And then the girls come and the girls crying. She says, you can't believe it. She says, she said, Chris, Chris was sitting there and all of a sudden you got a message from, uh, on his cell phone and said, if you're ever in a restaurant and someone asks for healing, go ahead and do it.
01:00:49
Speaker
And this girl breaks breaking the crying that they're about to ask her for healing. And there's this another text message. So this Tim Taylor, the way he got picked up, Tim Taylor got got involved with this thing was Diane Pasalka had somebody had she's the religion professor. She was the head of the department at North Carolina University. And she had
01:01:12
Speaker
somebody came up to her and said, oh, you're photographing, she's talking about sky stuff in biblical stuff and in religion, Roman Catholic religion. And they said, that sounds like UFO stuff. She said, not UFO stuff, not UFO stuff. And she disputed this. And then she got sort of, she went to see Chris lecture. And this was the famous lecture he gave at, in North Carolina, where he was giving the lecture and he was talking about meeting the lady
01:01:42
Speaker
that he met and the lady that he met was the same dad the download experience is either then or it was within a couple of days when I had the download experience in 2012 February 26 he said it was Easter but it was it was in that time period and Ray Hernandez from free had the dog experience the week after me so all these events happen at the same time
01:02:01
Speaker
But so Diane Fisalko went to see him lecture. And this is the lecture where he's lecturing. And he starts talking about the lady. Because Chris is sort of very religious. And he thinks that's the important part. And it may be the important part. So he's talking about this lady. And the lady said, you've got a message. You've got a burden to carry. And you have to do this. The burden is the
Predictions and Government Contacts
01:02:21
Speaker
message. He's got this message for the world. And so he's telling this. And somebody started yelling.
01:02:26
Speaker
We don't hear about the lady. Tell us about the lady. And they were starting to harass him in this lecture. And then he said suddenly this voice came in his head and said, tell him about the earthquake in Baja California on September 25th. He said there's going to be an earthquake in Baja California on September 25th. And then the second one, what was the other one that they told him?
01:02:47
Speaker
Oh yeah, as you said, there's going to be a natural event that's going to affect the 2014
01:03:02
Speaker
2012 election and that's when Hurricane Sandy came down the coast and knocked out all the election stations in part of New York City and New Jersey and it actually happened and so he had got these two predictions and he just said to the people there's going to be this thing and there's these two predictions but so she saw him at this lecture
01:03:22
Speaker
And then she started to talk to him and got interested. And she's the one that sort of introduced him to Tim Taylor. And then people started looking at him. And Chris actually told me just a little while ago where he said to them, he said, so why? Because he's got everybody. Like I asked him, we flew the ship, for example. And I said, did any of these high level
01:03:44
Speaker
government people ever ask you about flying the ship. He said, oh, yeah, he said they brought a US Air Force general. And I told this US Air Force general how to fly the craft. And so they're bringing these people in. And he said to them, he says, so so why are you on my property? So why are you guys all coming to me for like, you know, like, well, what's the big deal here? Like, why me? And then the guy said to me, says, well, he says, it seems that you got contact. And he said, it appears they like you.
01:04:12
Speaker
And it appears they don't like us because they don't contact us. So he's had all these experiences. I wrote about him in 2014. And there was stuff, I described stuff that you'd probably never heard
High-Level Involvement in UFO Disclosures
01:04:25
Speaker
about. He had this camera. They messed with this camera. He had this golden orb that was flying along and he photographed it. And it was a brand new camera. And it never worked again. We call them melted pictures. All the pictures look like they're melted.
01:04:40
Speaker
And then he tried to return it and they wouldn't return it. So I actually went to the company and made the thing and I said, we got this thing and I sent them the photographs. I didn't say what happened. I said, what would happen to a camera that does this? Can you explain why a camera would, your camera would do this? And they said, oh, send it back for repair. And I said, I don't want to repair it. Just tell me about the photographs. I said, no, no, if you want to repair it, we'll give you a free camera. And it was, I couldn't get them to buy the thing and tell me what these things, but he had a lot of bizarre stuff that happened.
01:05:08
Speaker
and so he's there was enough at one point he was going to do five seasons of of a show that they they auctioned for two and then the people said no we wanted five seasons he has a lot of stuff but he's he's like a magnet so there's a bunch of people around you'll find that that seem to attract the phenomena and now he's photographing the orbs and they come
01:05:31
Speaker
And like Jim Semivan from the CIA comes every year to his house for his birthday and stuff like that. That's how I discovered Jim Semivan was. I just identified him before anybody every day, identified him. And Chris was the one that told me in 2016, when I figured out he's kept referring to him as the big man in Washington. And then I saw this guy sitting there at Chris's birthday party. And then I look at his name was Jim Semivan. I look, I wonder if he's from Washington. Look, yeah, he's from Washington. That's the guy.
01:05:58
Speaker
And Chris told me in 2016, he said to me, he said, I kept telling me it's going to happen. There's going to be disclosure. He said, a number of high level officials are going to come forward and they're going to say UFOs are real and there's going to, they're going to force disclosure. That's exactly what happened. High level officials, uh, Elizondo and put off and Jim semi van and, uh, Mellon and all these high level officials came forward is exactly what Chris said. I remember when, when Hillary lost the election, cause it was supposed to happen before Hillary
01:06:25
Speaker
When Hillary won the election, she was gonna be the disclosure president. And so as soon as it didn't happen, then I said to her, the minute Hillary lost, the very next day I went back and I said, so is it over? Is it, they're calling it off? He said, oh no, it's bigger than it was before. It's still a game and they're gonna do it and they're rolling with the thing. And they just needed a bunch of months to get the thing ready. I've actually filed FOA's on the three guys that were involved. Like the general from Wright Patterson, our first base.
01:06:54
Speaker
Neil McCaslin McKay and and Robert Weiss I filed with the Obama administration for documents and I've actually got the classified reports back that There are pages on all three of them in terms of but I don't know what's just gonna be related to UFOs or whatever But that's what I do it. I do my FOA's I I file for Chris Blutzel because Chris Blutzel was briefed to the president they went to Chris Blutzel and
01:07:17
Speaker
and they did this thing. I've heard the story about the medals. Have you ever heard that story with Chris, the medals? Probably. I've listened to a lot of stuff. So, Tim Taylor comes. This story is told by his son. I have, yes, it just hit me. He puts a piece of metal and he feels the thing go up his arm. But when Chris does it, when the girlfriend does it, nothing happens because the girlfriend hasn't had experience. But when Chris does it, he basically goes like in a coma. He just goes sort of like, you know, really bad. And it was the idea was,
01:07:47
Speaker
Tim Taylor tells him that that means you've been face to face with it with an ET. So then you get the question is, what is Tim Taylor? No, I'm actually this guy really know about what's going on. And and and so when they had that, then they got Chris to describe the be the what the woman had told him the messages from the woman. And then Tim Taylor went to the president.
01:08:08
Speaker
at Camp David and did a briefing. And that's when Chris put the napkin, if you've ever seen the napkin photo, he puts the napkin photo. And as soon as I saw that, I go, what's going on here? And I'm like- The presidential napkin. And so I asked Chris, he showed me the medal that he got for the president. And I said, so where'd you get that for? And he says, I can't tell you, I can just tell you where it came from. And then he shows me the next photo, which was a mailing envelope from Camp David. And I went,
01:08:34
Speaker
Wow. And then, then you believe it's the real deal. I mean, they're briefing the president on this guy.
Upcoming Interviews and Engagements
01:08:39
Speaker
So I filed on, on, on Chris Bledsoe and they came back and said they don't have any material. Tim Taylor, I think they got 500 pages now, whether it's got anything to do with UFOs or whatever, but I file on everything. Everybody in this good name is a related, I file and I just like shooting darts and see how many you can get in the middle.
01:08:55
Speaker
That's amazing. I really hope something comes back from that because I have heard those stories and they are fascinating. We just need some data or something to back them up because that will just take it to that next level. Yeah. Well, listen, Grant, we just hit an hour and 10 minutes. I just want to thank you so much for joining me. It's been a fascinating conversation. You'll have to come back again in a few minutes time and we'll do more talking.
01:09:17
Speaker
is absolutely wonderful. So thank you so much to everybody in the live chat. I'm going to give a quick shout out to Davey. Thank you so much for the £5 donation. Really appreciate that, my friend. I'm sorry if I didn't get to everybody's questions, but I appreciate everyone being here and keeping it really nice in the chat. So I might be back in the next couple of days with Christopher Sharp, depending if we see this UAP report or not. If not, I am going to be back next Tuesday for a double whammy. So I'm going to be interviewing
01:09:44
Speaker
Professor Avi Loeb, and then a few hours later, I'm going to be interviewing Alejandro Rojas. So just go over to, while you're on my YouTube channel, go and subscribe, hit that bell, go and follow me on social media. All of Grant's links are in the description below as well. Please go and follow Grant on all the sort of networks and his website and everything. And I think that's it, guys. So for now, thank you, take care, and we'll see you on the next one. Goodbye.