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Ahsoka Is BREAKING The Star Wars Story...
32 Plays5 days ago
🔥 AHSOKA HAS BEEN FOUND DEAD?!
In the comic adaptation of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, Ahsoka Tano appears as a Force ghost alongside Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and other Jedi who have canonically passed on. This surprising reveal reignites a long-debated question: Is Ahsoka actually dead during the film’s climax, when Rey channels the voices of Jedi past and declares, “I am all the Jedi”?
Looking back on Ahsoka’s story, a pattern starts to emerge. She “dies” on Mortis in The Clone Wars. She leaves the Jedi Order and disappears. She nearly perishes in her duel with Darth Vader on Malachor in Rebels.
So what’s the endgame here?
Will Ahsoka ever truly die? And more importantly—what is all of this building toward?
S2:E23
This is the Wayseekers is a Star Wars podcast, with new episodes every Thursday on YouTube and audio platforms. Join your hosts Austin SWE and Scotty Holiday SW as they navigate their ways through the Star Wars galaxy.
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Transcript
Ahsoka's Death and Filoni's Perspective
00:00:00
Speaker
Ahsoka has been found dead. In a new comic adaptation of The Rise of Skywalker, she appears as a force ghost alongside Anakin, Obi-Wan, and other Jedi who've canonically passed on. And you may be asking yourself, wasn't this already confirmed in the movie?
00:00:14
Speaker
But Dave Filoni, the creator of Ahsoka, seems to think otherwise. It doesn't really have any big implications to what I'm doing with the character, to be honest. I just thought it was a really fun thing. I don't think of it in a literal story way.
00:00:25
Speaker
The film to me is like a different area." Immediately after the film's release, he also posted this picture to Instagram comparing her to Gandalf, a character people once thought was dead as well. But this isn't the first time Ahsoka's played with death.
00:00:38
Speaker
In fact, when you look throughout her almost 20 year history, there are three major points where, narratively, she should have died. But the interesting part of Ahsoka is that she's a character known for almost being shoehorned into pre-existing stories, for better or for worse. From starting out as Anakin Skywalker's never-mentioned Padawan to becoming a key figure in the formation of the Rebel Alliance, she's always existed in this sort of out-of-frame corner of the galaxy.
Ahsoka's Narrative Impact and Survival
00:01:02
Speaker
But as her story continues, and she survives across major galactic events, her unwillingness to die begins to impact other stories, raising questions as to whether the benefits outweigh the negatives of her miraculous ability to live.
00:01:15
Speaker
Is this just a case of a creator who's grown too close to his character and can't let go? Or is it possible there's some grand plan that we just can't see? And finally, is it time to say goodbye to Ahsoka Tano?
00:01:32
Speaker
Welcome back to This Is The Way Seekers, a podcast for Star Wars fans by Star Wars fans.
Introduction to Hosts and Debate on Ahsoka's Fate
00:01:39
Speaker
My name is Austin SWE and I'm joined with my co-host, one of the biggest fans of Ahsoka Tano, a founding member of the Church of Tano, a three-time inductee into the Ahsoka Tano Hall of Fame.
00:01:51
Speaker
I'm here with you, Scotty Holiday. How are you feeling today? Are you excited to talk about one of your favorite characters of all time? Well, one, I don't feel deserving of all those accolades. However, i am really excited to talk about Ahsoka with you, especially because this is stuff we've talked about off screen, off the pod.
00:02:09
Speaker
And there's a lot of conversation to be had around Ahsoka and whether or not she should or shouldn't die and when she eventually will or if she even will.
00:02:21
Speaker
So, i yeah, I'm really excited to talk about her with you and to really dig into it. Yeah, I 100% agree. There is a lot of conversation around Ahsoka living or dying. The whole Ahsoka lives thing that Dave Filoni puts on. Like we said in the intro, there's three major points where Ahsoka really should have died, but they either went back on it or played with death or something.
00:02:44
Speaker
It's almost like she's like this mystical being. She just can't die. And maybe that's connected to some things we see in the Clone Wars. I don't know. We'll talk about it all today.
Integration and Continuity in Star Wars Films
00:02:53
Speaker
But yeah, it's also funny to be like, Scotty, we're talking about your favorite character and how I think she needs to die.
00:03:00
Speaker
i mean, it is what it is. Like, ah I'm like Dave Filoni. Do I love Ahsoka? Yes. But do I recognize that we can't have her live forever? Yes.
00:03:10
Speaker
So she's got to die at some point, but it's like, what is the perfect place? What is like, how is she going to go out in a blaze of glory? Because that's the only thing like she can't die unceremoniously at this point. It's got to be something epic.
00:03:24
Speaker
Absolutely. Something, something epic, extraordinary, big. And even though it's already happened, they need to find something that tops the other times that she's already died and sacrifice herself. Without undoing it Exactly.
00:03:38
Speaker
But let's get straight into this. So we all know that Ahsoka Tano was introduced in the Clone Wars movie in 2008. She was created by George Lucas and Dave Filoni, and she was introduced as Anakin Skywalker's Padawan, despite there being no mention of her in Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith.
00:03:55
Speaker
Do you have any feelings about that, Scotty, as a big Ahsoka fan? This is like the first major time where she was kind of shoehorned into something, you know dropped into these two movies where she's never mentioned at all.
00:04:08
Speaker
I didn't for a while, but ah funny enough, going back and watching Revenge of the Sith for the anniversary in the theater this year, it did feel like there was a piece missing to it. And I think that's because of how they integrated the Clone Wars Season 7 and the season Siege of Mandalore arc into Revenge of the Sith so well.
00:04:27
Speaker
And it's almost like kind of like we talked about before. I wish we they re added the Mon Mothma deleted scenes into Revenge of the Sith. I kind of wish I would see the four hour cut with the Clone Wars season seven integrated into it, too, because, yeah, it just feels like there's a missing piece. There's just this unspoken part of it. And like even with Anakin and Padme, like Padme and Ahsoka were also friends and Padme didn't have much to do. So she could have been calling Ahsoka dealing with, you know,
00:04:53
Speaker
Hey girl, I'm pregnant. Like this is so amazing. I can tell you cause you're not in the order anymore. Like whatever. Yeah, it just feels like there's a weird piece of it missing. I didn't used to feel that way.
00:05:04
Speaker
um Did it change at all for you from the Clone Wars Season 7? um From the Clone Wars Season 7, I thought that that was interesting because obviously what happened is we saw the Clone Wars Season 1 through 5 where Ahsoka leaves the Order and then for like 10 years we didn't know what happened next.
00:05:21
Speaker
And it always worked out nicely because she came back in Star Wars Rebels and you have her story there. And you get this continuation. But she has this line talking about I'm no Jedi.
00:05:32
Speaker
So I was honestly surprised that she was kind of so tied into the Jedi Order as much as she was in season seven. Obviously, she wasn't a part of it, but she was working with them. She saw Anakin again. i had thought that they would just never reunite again after that.
00:05:48
Speaker
Because the thing about Ahsoka being put in between these two movies is that from a writing perspective, she had to be out of the picture by Revenge of the Sith. And when seasons one through four and then even five were coming out, it was like, how are we going to do this? how is Is she going to die in Order 66?
00:06:06
Speaker
What's going to happen? And then when she left the Jedi Order, it was like, oh, okay, she left the order a year before Revenge of the Sith even happened. So there's a whole year where Anakin can not forget about her, but like move on to where it's not a big part of his life anymore.
00:06:23
Speaker
But then season seven comes out and she's still a big part of his life. She literally is reunited with him right before the Battle of Coruscant in Revenge of the Sith. So that's when it starts to get kind of muddy. It's like, okay,
00:06:37
Speaker
It was fine at the start. It was like, okay, Ahsoka's here and ah you can kind of make sense of it. But then as it went on, she was still included in the story and put even further and further and further until it just eventually became too much.
Narrative Coherence and Ahsoka's Unique Perspective
00:06:53
Speaker
But the too much didn't happen in the Clone Wars. The too much happened later on because I still think that this is, it's it's okay. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, she's not mentioned in Revenge of the Sith, but it's not the worst thing ever, right? Like you can still make sense of it.
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And it's so funny because thinking of it now, like the Clone Wars season seven is like a double edged sword because as an Ahsoka fan, we wanted to know what happened to her after she left the order.
00:07:19
Speaker
But in telling that and then reintegrating it with Anakin's story to the point where this man kept her lightsabers and like channeled his energy into them and I assume he only kept them because he expected to give them back to her someday.
00:07:33
Speaker
Like we know he never stopped thinking about her. I mean, there's even the crystal crisis on Utapau arc that we never got to see where, you know, Anakin talks to Obi-Wan about how upset he still is about the Ahsoka's situation and her leaving the order.
00:07:49
Speaker
yeah So it helps to kind of fast forward Anakin's fall in Revenge of the Sith, I think, indirectly, because obviously it's I guess you could call it almost like a retcon of a way to add to like, here's another reason why Anakin was so unstable and so willing to risk it all because he already had this horrible loss with his Padawan.
00:08:09
Speaker
Well, he had the loss with his mom, then his Padawan, now his wife. So like this was like third times a charm. So I do appreciate how it adds to that, but it is odd that she's never mentioned Obi-Wan and Anakin.
00:08:25
Speaker
It's like at that point, they're like, we don't speak about her anymore, but you were still talking about her. Yeah. Literally five minutes before Revenge of the Sith started. It's very interesting and interesting.
00:08:35
Speaker
Then comes in the whole behind the scenes aspect of it where Ahsoka was actually not supposed to live that far into the timeline. George Lucas was always team Ahsoka does not survive Order 66.
00:08:47
Speaker
George Lucas wanted her to die. Dave Filoni was the one that was like, no, I want Ahsoka to live. He actually talks about it in a featurette. I'll play that clip right now. I don't think it's a mystery that I've always been a bit more in the Ahsoka Lives Camp and George has been very full on in the Ahsoka Dies Camp. I think I've said that before, if not revelation for you.
00:09:10
Speaker
So I thought expelling her from the Jedi Order is a good movement towards that end. And we stand on that bold new frontier for her. You know, things have changed. She is not the same character.
00:09:21
Speaker
The thing about that clip is I do agree with Dave Filoni. That's so much more compelling to have Ahsoka leave the Jedi Order than just died in Order 66 because that's so obvious.
00:09:32
Speaker
Instead, you get like another layer added to the disillusionment of the Jedi Order, the way that the entire establishment has kind of decayed from the inside. They've just completely lost their way becoming warriors instead of peacekeepers.
00:09:46
Speaker
um And I love what Ahsoka adds to
Ahsoka in Rebels and Narrative Implications
00:09:49
Speaker
that. Not to mention Ahsoka being in the Clone Wars as a 14 year old, what that adds to it, you know, how how lost the Jedi were. They were literally using child soldiers. And the Ahsoka series really highlighted that when they had a literal little kid playing Ahsoka Tano, because in the animation, she looks way older. It's something like you said, we didn't think about because we just saw Ahsoka as an animated character.
00:10:13
Speaker
But when we saw it in live action, it was like, oh my God, she's a literal child. The thing that I like though, in general about Ahsoka being in the Clone Wars series is we get the POV of everything, not just of the war itself, but like she is a peek behind the curtain of the downfall of the Jedi.
00:10:29
Speaker
And that culminates at the climax where they, you know, think she bombed the Jedi temple. And it really gives us a more in-depth view of the Jedi Order that we wouldn't have got otherwise.
00:10:42
Speaker
Plus, it sets her up as a character that we haven't really followed. This character who has never really stopped being a Jedi, but has left the Order and is forging her own path.
00:10:54
Speaker
um In general, when it comes to that, I like that she continued on from the Clone Wars because of that. Because like, as we've already established, I love Ahsoka.
00:11:05
Speaker
I love the Clone Wars series. So I don't want anyone to take this as like, I'm not happy she lived because I'm very happy that she survived and I'm very happy with the stories that we got.
00:11:17
Speaker
But and like I said, it's a double edged sword. Yeah, 100%. And that's when you start to question, do the positives outweigh the negative? In my opinion, when we're looking at the Clone Wars, the positives outweigh the negative. the The negative here is just like continuity issues. And you could really just chalk that up to Anakin just mentioned her off screen. The camera cut off before he said her name. But in that scene when he's crying to Padme, he did mention her.
00:11:44
Speaker
there's there's There's ways around it. But where we start getting into the danger territory is when she starts living on into the Galactic Civil War, the entire story of Luke Skywalker and the Rebellion defeating Darth Vader.
00:11:59
Speaker
That's when it's like... Gets little messy. Yeah. Because she starts off in Star Wars Rebels, and this is before you know Luke Skywalker's introduced. That's my opinion of any Order 66 survivor.
00:12:12
Speaker
It's totally fine for them to live past Order 66, but when you start to live past Luke Skywalker's introduction into the Rebellion, that's when it's like... Yikes.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yikes. But her starting off as being just a key figure in the formation, perfectly fine. We saw she was folk Fulcrum, um operating under that codename. She's coordinating Rebel Cell. She's assisting Kanan and Ezra.
00:12:36
Speaker
And that works really well because Ezra is like this... He's a sign of the new age to come for the Jedi and having Ahsoka. And obviously Kanan also was a Jedi, but he was a Jedi Padawan during the time. We have Ahsoka, someone who was more established during the prequel era, actually being able to pass on that knowledge.
00:12:54
Speaker
I love seeing all of that. That was really great. I agree. And i I think what works out so beautifully about the three of their relationship is that she's a non-conventional Jedi. And we know Ezra is a very non-conventional Jedi.
00:13:08
Speaker
And I think that Ahsoka acted as a mentor in different ways to both Kanan and Ezra, which was really great to see throughout the series. And I love their interactions and I love the integration of her with the Alliance, because as I kind of mentioned,
00:13:23
Speaker
She's always been a Jedi. She's always going to be fighting for the people. So the idea of her sitting out the Galactic Civil War, or not even the Galactic Civil War, because she does technically sit out the Galactic Civil War, which is a whole other issue we'll get into.
00:13:38
Speaker
But I like seeing her in the formation of the rebellion because ah she never really stopped fighting. You know what I mean? And I don't. just understand And she's like Anakin. She just can't sit and ignore an issue when she sees it.
00:13:50
Speaker
She's got to she's got to help people. And I mean, that's also kind of as a tour group that they're like very in tune with the people around them and their emotions. So it would make sense that she would want to continue to help the people.
00:14:01
Speaker
But yeah, like you mentioned, Galactic Civil War starts happening And things get a little messy. Yeah. So so let's get into that where it all starts. So we know that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader.
00:14:16
Speaker
Now we're in the era in Star Wars Rebels where Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. And like we mentioned before, there was no season seven yet. So we actually had no idea what happened with Anakin and Ahsoka after she left the order.
00:14:29
Speaker
So it's time to wrap up that story here in Star Wars Rebels, right? It's time to have Ahsoka versus Vader. um Such an interesting fight. ah All of Anakin's fights are so interesting because he's always fighting somebody that he either trained or trained him. So he's literally almost always fighting himself, like kind of yeah his own moves, the things that he's learned and picked up, the things that he's passed on to others.
00:14:54
Speaker
I always loved that. And I loved the Ahsoka and Vader duel on Malachor. And I'm sure you agree. Twilight of the Apprentice is like such good Star Wars animation, such good Star Wars storytelling in general, like across all mediums. But a lot of people, and I don't know if I would say I argue this point, but a lot of people argue this should have been the moment where Ahsoka finally died, sacrificing herself for not only Kanan and Ezra, but you know, trying to bring Anakin back from Vader, but ultimately knowing she couldn't do it.
00:15:28
Speaker
So what is she going to do instead? Buy the rebels time so they can escape and continue on in the fight. Exactly, exactly. And hot take. I am one of those people that thinks Ahsoka should have died in Star Wars Rebels.
00:15:43
Speaker
In that moment, fighting Vader when she sacrificed herself so that Hera and the others in the ghost crew could get away. It was such an Ahsoka moment because on one end, people might say Vader killing Ahsoka is a good end to her story, but that's not exactly what it was.
00:15:59
Speaker
It was Ahsoka sacrificing herself, allowing Vader to kill her so that the key figures in the rebellion could get away and continue on to fight the fight and create the Rebel Alliance.
00:16:12
Speaker
It was such
Ahsoka's Absence During Galactic Events
00:16:13
Speaker
a perfect moment for Ahsoka because as we mentioned, she's kind of shoehorned into these stories um in a way that doesn't always uplift them.
00:16:22
Speaker
But in this case, Ahsoka basically allowing the Rebel Alliance to happen by sacrificing herself. Perfect ending for the character. And i couldn't imagine her going out any other way, to be honest. But here we are.
00:16:36
Speaker
She survived because in season four, it's revealed that they literally invented time travel. To save Ahsoka Tano. Well, you know, Dave Filoni won't call it time travel, but he's like, it's like time travel, but it's different.
00:16:48
Speaker
It's like, okay, but how? Please explain. Right. Time travel adjacent. I understand there's all these rules. And I honestly do like the commentary of like the force dictating things. Like Ahsoka was able to be pulled out because the force needs her to be alive. But if Ezra were to pull out Kanan, who sacrificed himself, it...
00:17:08
Speaker
and It just it wouldn't have worked out. it The entire galaxy might have collapsed between space and time. And then who who the fuck knows what would have happened there. But yeah at the same time, it also feels like this cosmic cop out of like, well, let's just bring Ahsoka back. And then that literally does confirm that she sat sat out during the galactic civil war she never confronted palpatine she never confronted vader again and at this point in star wars canon we don't know what she was up to you know a lot of people may think that when ahsoka was brought back out of the portal she basically time skipped like two years but that's not the case when ahsoka was pulled back out from ezra she returned
00:17:53
Speaker
to the duel with Vader, to that moment, because we see her in season two walking out of the temple. She never missed a single moment. She never missed a single beat. So what the fuck was Ahsoka Tano doing during the Galactic Civil War? Why did Yoda sit there and say that Luke and Leia are the only hope, that these twins are the last hope?
00:18:14
Speaker
Why did he say that when he was gone, the last of the Jedi Luke would be when there was Anakin Skywalker's literal apprentice just chilling out there in the galaxy? Well, that's when it starts to get like, whoa.
00:18:27
Speaker
Well, you know, the scapegoat for a long time was that Ahsoka said in Rebel Season 2, I am no Jedi. So it was like, okay, so yeah, Luke and Leia the only hope. ah Yoda says to Luke, the last of the Jedi you will be when I am gone. Because technically Ahsoka said she's no Jedi.
00:18:45
Speaker
But that's kind of gotten ruined also. So then it makes it even worse for this era. And you think that this would be... a really cool story that somebody, maybe not Dave Filoni, but that somebody would want to tell like Ahsoka's adventures ah doing her own thing because they can literally have her do whatever, but then no story has been told.
00:19:09
Speaker
And we've moved, we've moved on. We've moved on either from further in the timeline. So it's like, Star Wars does like to go back and fill things in. So I would love to know what she did. I think it would make for a great book, but for right now, it's just like, yeah,
00:19:24
Speaker
Why? but was the point And I feel really bad saying that because I am, i am happy still that she was brought back through the world between worlds.
00:19:34
Speaker
And i don't necessarily, i see the poeticism of her dying at the hands of Vader in rebels and her making that sacrifice.
Future Storylines and Independence from Anakin
00:19:44
Speaker
And it only just like hurting in Vader in the end, um because, you know, there's that moment where he kind of comes back for a second But also Ahsoka was never going to be the one to bring him back.
00:19:55
Speaker
you know We know that his son Luke was only one that could do that. Exactly. Because I think one of the plus sides to her staying alive this long is that so far Ahsoka's story has very much been serving others, so especially Anakin Skywalker. We know that in the Clone Wars, like we mentioned, her entire existence is to basically justify his fall to the dark side. And it kind of...
00:20:18
Speaker
does that like it it makes it more interesting it doesn't justify it but it makes it make sense right um and then in rebels she's serving the story of the rebel alliance and then she's fighting vader but from this point forward when vader has died at the end of the galactic civil war ahsoka can exist on her own right presumably because then in her show it's focused on the ghost crew and it's still tied to anakin skywalker and To their credit, the story is Ahsoka trying to separate herself from Anakin's legacy, and that makes sense. But then when he's confirmed for Ahsoka season two, it's like, when are we going to get this standalone story where Ahsoka truly is the main character and actually serving her own narrative rather than serving the story of like building the new Republic?
00:21:10
Speaker
I mean, honestly, thinking of it, knowing what we know now, I'm like, maybe Ahsoka's own story is that story when she sits out the Galactic Civil War, because that's the thing. I'm like, you brought her back to life.
00:21:23
Speaker
We're skipping into the New Republic era. But yeah, what what's the point? Where is Ahsoka going? Does she really need to be helping the remnants of the ghost crew and like resolving their issues? Because by the end of rebels, they're all perfectly capable of like, you know, fighting the good fight, fighting for the rebellion, continuing to go on. We know they all survive other than Kanan.
00:21:51
Speaker
So what is Ahsoka serving by being integrated into their story, echoing what you've already said? Like, when does she get to serve her own purpose?
00:22:02
Speaker
And fingers crossed, we'll see that in season two. But as of right now, we we just don't know. I feel bad saying this, but I'm like, what is her point? Exactly. what Dave Filoni, what are we doing?
00:22:14
Speaker
Where is Ahsoka going? Is she going to become a force god? Is that the big epic thing that we're going to get at the end of it? i don't know if I love that, be completely honest, but I have a feeling that's the way things are going.
00:22:25
Speaker
Oh,
Speculation on Immortality and Divine Plan
00:22:26
Speaker
I think so. So one thing I wanted to mention, I didn't know where to mention in this podcast, but I think this is a good point. I have a theory. Ahsoka is immortal. She's never going to die.
00:22:37
Speaker
When the life force of the daughter was put into her from the father and she was resurrected, i think that that's when she became like this force god, this mystical being. She's not going to die. And every single time she has died, the force has basically said no. Uh-uh. Yeah.
00:22:53
Speaker
The Force literally broke the rules of the world between worlds to bring her back, like literally broke this the rules of space and time to bring Ahsoka back into the fold. When she died Ahsoka series, when Balin's skull kills her and she falls off of a cliff, she's resurrected within the series. Like she literally drowns and still comes back to life.
00:23:15
Speaker
So I think at this point we can assume with Ahsoka season two tying back into the Mortis gods and we we see all this mystical force stuff coming into the picture. She's not going to die. Ahsoka will live on forever and Dave Filoni will always get to wear his Ahsoka lives shirt.
00:23:33
Speaker
See, and as much as I love her as a character, that just feels so selfish. Absolutely. It feels so selfish in his self-interest that he wants his beloved character to live on forever. i do love Ahsoka, but I do not want her to live on forever because there are other characters that have other stories that we could be telling as well.
00:23:56
Speaker
It doesn't have to be Ahsoka featuring da da da. Ahsoka featuring Rebels or Rebels featuring Ahsoka, whatever you want to call it. And might also worry about her becoming like a god and almost like taking her place like Anakin was supposed to do in the Mortis arc.
00:24:16
Speaker
I'm like, is she also then just going to sit out? Like, for example, if we're talking Ahsoka series, if they can get to Mortis, is she just going to stay on Peridia forever and then send, you know, Sabine back to the regular galaxy? And like, good job, y'all. I'll watch over you from afar.
00:24:32
Speaker
What's the point? just there is something funny that I just realized, some accidental commentary that I don't think Dave Filoni meant. But say Ahsoka Tano does become a Force God. Say she becomes Star Wars Jesus, right?
00:24:45
Speaker
Oh God. Ironic that she sits out and watches all this bad shit happen that she could possibly control. She could possibly change being the almighty being.
00:24:56
Speaker
She could change it, but instead she watches, she watches genocide happen. She watches all these horrible things happen. Isn't that what is Jesus Christ supposedly does in the real world?
00:25:07
Speaker
I mean, now you're sounding like me. Yeah. That sounds like some anti-religion bullshit, I would say. um mean, but and I'm joking, but it's also like kind of funny that it works out that way.
00:25:21
Speaker
Well, unfortunately, they would just say it's all a part of God's plan. um But that's that's a different podcast. Yeah, the Gorman Massacre was a part of Ahsoka's plan.
00:25:33
Speaker
The Gorman massacre was a part of her plan. She really needed, you know, Cyril to realize he was wrong and Cassian to rise up and so fucking stupid. Like ah one of the big things that I don't understand is I'm like, and we've already glossed over this as well. Talking about stories we haven't seen.
00:25:53
Speaker
when Ahsoka and Luke meet.
00:25:57
Speaker
We just skipped it. We just skipped it. And I'm like, I'm worried that we're never going to get that story. Also, what you do during the Galactic Civil War, when did she and Luke meet? Why did she? Why was she like, oh, Luke, I'll come watch you build your temple, but I'm not going to help you do anything like it's so bizarre.
00:26:16
Speaker
I wonder if they would be bold enough to have her meet Luke Skywalker during the original trilogy. Like have that pep talk moment that we're like talking about where she does intervene, but it's really just a pep talk.
00:26:29
Speaker
That would be insane. And I feel like don't think there's a space for it. Well, I feel like like OT like diehards would despise that. I think I might too, honestly, if they did do that. But then again, it's like, where where does it work out? Like, it doesn't work out. Like, she should have died in
Meeting Luke Skywalker and Force Ghost Appearance
00:26:48
Speaker
Rebels. That's that literally every single time you think about it, or at least every time that I think about it, I always circle back to that.
00:26:54
Speaker
She should have just died in Rebels. Are we really going to play this game right now? Because the perfect time for them to meet is like between episodes 5 and 6. Luke gets a magical power-up out of nowhere. Okay. Those are lightsaber.
00:27:12
Speaker
yeah Right? However... at that point he wouldn't be able to tell her that Anakin was redeemed in the end. So that doesn't feel poetic enough.
00:27:23
Speaker
So that's another thing. It's like, what do they have a check in later? me and honestly, I could see her being like, they're still good in him. And that's why Luke's like, they're still good in him. She knows it.
00:27:34
Speaker
I know it. Obi-Wan's force ghost probably says it too. And this magical media piece that we're creating right now. um I just want them to meet in animation.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. yeah that's all that's all i need yeah because then you could have ashley ekstein and mark hamill as a voice actor because mark hamill does voice work so i always say we need luke skywalker's temple where's that and that's the thing that worries me is if they were to do something during the ot i don't want rosario dawson talking to deep fake luke skywalker I want Ashley Eckstein animated talking to Luke Skywalker animated.
00:28:09
Speaker
yeah Yeah, because then you have the two original actors. You don't have some weird deep fake and then this recast that largely ignores Ashley Eckstein's character.
00:28:21
Speaker
Well, now that we've gone down, gone through the original trilogy, I feel like it's time to get into the big question of this episode is Ahsoka's presence in the Rise of Skywalker.
00:28:36
Speaker
Mm hmm. yeah i i think what's kind of i guess sad about the way that star wars has released is that when disney bought star wars the first thing they released was the sequel trilogy and when they made the sequel trilogy they wanted to ignore the prequel trilogy as much as possible and that includes the clone wars that includes the characters in the clone wars like ahsoka tano what if the sequel trilogy came out after the clone wars and after rebels then, then you would have a good opportunity to bring Ahsoka into the sequel trilogy. And that's where she would finally have her time to shine.
00:29:14
Speaker
Right? yeah But the sequel trilogy came first and there was no Ahsoka Tano until the Rise of Skywalker, where she's amongst a bunch of other dead Jedi Force ghosts.
00:29:25
Speaker
She's the only one in that scene that is not confirmed dead. Literally everyone else is dead in that scene. So when Dave Filoni hops in and is like, maybe she was calling from across the galaxy or whatever, it's like,
00:29:39
Speaker
with everyone else who was dead like was a honestly the perfect way to summarize that is what we've unfortunately already talked about is immortal force god ahsoka calling from peridia or mortis or wherever the hell you want to say however I want to talk about the comics specifically. Okay.
00:30:03
Speaker
You've seen the panel. I've seen the panel. Another thing that I find bizarre about it is she very much looks like Mandalorian Ahsoka. um She's in the gray, right?
00:30:16
Speaker
she's look She's in the gray. And I'm sure behind the scenes, it's just because that was the concept art that they had at the time. um If they even had concept art. But she's got one lightsaber.
00:30:28
Speaker
And she's looking very Ahsoka the gray. So that also throws it off to me. Because I'm like... it be the timeline Wouldn't it be a soak of the white? The timelines are not adding up. Like this feels like Mandalorian season Ahsoka, which doesn't make sense with the timeline. She wouldn't go back from being a soak of the white back to a soak of the gray or whatever.
00:30:52
Speaker
So it's just, it's just odd. Yeah, 100%. And the the whole comic is confusing, but that's because the movie's confusing. Because in the end there, it's like, what is really happening? are they actually like Are these the actual spirits of the Jedi speaking to Rey? Is this something she's like imagining or like the Force is putting on to you know motivate her to defeat Palpatine?
00:31:14
Speaker
There's so many different explanations, but there shouldn't be. There should just be one. explanation which is the truth and what is canon and that's why we see in this comic they're depicting them as force ghosts but that's not canon that there were force ghosts there and that's where it's like it continues to be muddy because Dave Filoni's talking about well that actually had nothing to do with my plan and it was actually just a celebration of the star wars saga as a whole and jj abrams wanted to include animation rare jj abrams w that's just because ashley was on the payroll but like that's another thing it ruins continuity because it's ashley eckstein ahsoka not rosario dawson ahsoka which makes it even more muddy
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah, but like who cares about that? like I didn't want it to be Rosario anyways. And to be honest, we would not have even recognized her voice. We would have thought she was Aayla Secura something.
00:32:06
Speaker
Right. Oh, Luminara. like I'm not going to lie. I do really like the comic panel because I think it portrays what would have been more of a grand ending for the end of the Skywalker saga.
Wish for Ahsoka's Grand Ending and Gandalf Comparison
00:32:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:21
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it's version of the scene that everybody like accepts as canon. Like in my mind, the force ghosts showed up and helped Rey. In my mind, a beautiful scene would have been Luke, Anakin and Rey.
00:32:34
Speaker
Like Rey, as she's doing with the two lightsabers and Anakin and Luke standing behind her, maybe just like doing a little force thing. Anakin and Luke? Or Luke and Leia. Anakin and Luke, because then it's like all the characters that once.
00:32:50
Speaker
Oh, I see. seen And then okay it's a way to conclude it all. But like Leia would have been cool, too. And if Carrie kry Fisher lived on, that's actually what would have happened is that Leia would have gotten a lightsaber.
00:33:01
Speaker
Well, and on top of that, we wouldn't have had The Rise of Skywalker. but Very true. No Palpatine probably at all. would have had a completely different story. RIP Carrie, love you, babe.
00:33:13
Speaker
But to bring it all back to Dave Filoni and the question of, is this all some grand plan or is this just a case of Dave Filoni not being able to let go It doesn't help that immediately when the Rise of Skywalker released, Dave Filoni posts this picture to Instagram, comparing her to Gandalf the Grey, who then became Gandalf the White.
00:33:31
Speaker
I don't know anything about Lord of the Rings. You're wearing a Legolas shirt, but maybe you can let us know. Yeah, so... It her journey and Gandalf's journey really mirror each other really well, because Gandalf has his you know, he starts off as Gandalf the Grey.
00:33:46
Speaker
He's a wise older mentor. I mean, he's literally a wizard. um Oh, God, I can't remember what the real name is for the wizard people in Lord of the Rings, but that's besides the point.
00:33:57
Speaker
He has a giant sacrifice where he fights the Balrog and basically allows himself to go down fighting this monster creature to let the you know Fellowship of the Ring, the Fellowship, continue on in their journey.
00:34:14
Speaker
And that is what we think is his end. He eventually comes back after making that sacrifice as this further powerful, higher plane wizard Gant off the white.
00:34:28
Speaker
and he has his big epic time helping fight off everything at the end of the movie and it's like this big epic conclusion and he gets to live off into the sunset he doesn't die but he's there to continue to usher in a victory when it feels like all is lost and I really think that that is what we're going to see with Ahsoka's future. That's kind of the future that I would prefer.
00:34:54
Speaker
And for me, it makes most sense to do that in the Mandoverse climax movie that Dave Filoni is directing. I would imagine that he would want to, if he was ever going to kill Ahsoka or whatever, that it would be in his big project.
00:35:10
Speaker
So for me, that feels like the best place for Ahsoka to either die, become one with the force, kind of step over from the physical plane to like the ethereal plane.
00:35:24
Speaker
um Something like that. That's what I think should be the case and what I think makes sense. If she continues after this movie, I'm thinking kind of running our running her course.
00:35:36
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. the The well is running out. um A question for you. So you said Gandalf doesn't die, right? So does he just never have a death or is he a mortal?
00:35:53
Speaker
Good question. So the whole thing with the Astari, which is like that technical name for the wizards in Lord of the Rings is that they do kind of exist in their own in their own realm, kind of.
00:36:07
Speaker
I feel like that's the best way to describe it. They're not necessarily human. They can die, but it's like they have this otherworldly wisdom ah to where they can basically act as assistance to the people, like the regular people that are in the world.
00:36:27
Speaker
So it's kind of hard to explain to where it's like one foot in the real world, one foot out. It sounds almost like a force ghost. what Yeah, kind of like what we've known Force Ghosts to be what they're kind of becoming now as we've got more experience with Force Ghosts.
00:36:45
Speaker
However... well then it's hard because Yoda could make lightning come as a forest ghost but Gandalf still has more of a physical presence he's a physical person there anybody can see him like it's not just certain people that can experience things with him like he is physically there so that's what I mean where it's one foot in one foot out whereas forest ghosts I would consider not in the real world at all just interacting from a higher plane
00:37:16
Speaker
mean, that makes sense. And Forest Ghost, they got to explain it at some point because it's like yeah what you have Obi-Wan sitting on a log, like you said, Yoda summoning lightning. So obviously they can interact with the real world, but how much are they actually a part of it?
00:37:32
Speaker
But that's the reason the the reason I asked was because Ahsoka, is that possible? Is Ahsoka... just never going to have an ending like is it just gonna be the the camera pans up and the day keeps moving and there's just the the last we see of ahsoka is just her being happy and there's no death what what are we gonna what are we gonna see here i don't know i honestly just give us a little crooked smile and then a camera pan off into the stars or some shit and i'll be happy Yeah, I honestly don't have like ah an ideal death for Ahsoka. My ideal death for Ahsoka would have been in Star Wars Rebels.
00:38:09
Speaker
um I can't really think of ah like equivalent to how she could like... a sacrifice she has or or something she does sets up the sequel trilogy with like the new
Potential Ending and Impact on Sequels
00:38:23
Speaker
republic i mean maybe she's supposed to kill thron and then doesn't and then he creates the first order i don't know but then that's like i don't want so could have a negative impact on the sequel trilogy i want to have a positive one like letting the ghost crew escape so that they could form the rebel alliance like that's what i would want but what could that be
00:38:43
Speaker
The only thing I could think of, and it's to their detriment because it's not built up enough at all, is if she were to kill off like the Nightsisters, but like the evil ones, the ones that use the dark side.
00:38:57
Speaker
That's like the only equivalent because unfortunately, Thrawn's a great villain, but not for Ahsoka. Yeah. like they What is he going to get an Electro staff and fight her? like Don't moff Gideon Thrawn.
00:39:12
Speaker
and And don't forget that there they're they're so not compatible as hero and villain that um the person Thrawn's going up against in season two is not Ahsoka.
00:39:23
Speaker
It's umm Admiral Ackbar. Which is really exciting. I know we talked about that before, but that's just so exciting to think about. The only thing I can think of is Maybe what Balin's going after, maybe Balin's going to have this crazy plan that could really mess things up.
00:39:40
Speaker
who So who knows? Who knows? I'm like, maybe the Nightsisters, they're building something up with the Nightsisters, but the Nightsisters clearly aren't doing anything with the First Order in the sequel trilogy.
00:39:51
Speaker
didn't even think about that. Somehow, if she were to die at this point, what is what is she doing that helps like usher in the new era of the sequel trilogy?
00:40:03
Speaker
Or did she just sit out again? i mean, it's possible. she just, you know, Leia's son is out there causing, you know, catastrophe and she's just like, fuck it. It's got nothing to do with me. But yeah, I think, as I mentioned before, Ahsoka is a character that is shoehorned into these stories to try to impact them on a greater scale, like Anakin Skywalker.
00:40:25
Speaker
So the perfect conclusion for me is her impacting something big. um And I just don't know how that'll happen with the sequels. Maybe she saves Leia or something.
00:40:35
Speaker
I don't know. But um i feel like nothing is going to be as good as sacrificing herself so that the rebellion could be made, being killed by Darth Vader. like It just feels...
00:40:47
Speaker
perfect cinema and i don't know why they backtracked it i guess they didn't even backtrack it because in season two like i said we see her walk out of the temple and dave feloni's mind she was never dead while the rest of the fandom was like mourning her her death and like oh my god me we're gonna see ahsoka again dave feloni's like ahsoka lives he has this fucking t-shirt in his closet the entire time so yeah Well, unfortunately for you, you're never going to get what you wanted for her end.
00:41:18
Speaker
So do you have a next best thing? No, I don't. I genuinely don't. Well, you heard mine. Exactly. We'll see what happens. Yep.
00:41:29
Speaker
A hundred percent. So to answer the question, is this a case of Dave Filoni not being able to let go or is there a grand plan? I think Dave Filoni can't let go.
00:41:40
Speaker
um I think there's obviously a grand plan of like the Mando verse but in terms of Ahsoka you know explaining why she's alive during the original trilogy um impacting the sequel trilogy don't think that there's a plan for any of that I think it's just like I just want her to be alive and we'll see where it goes.
00:42:00
Speaker
Or like, she's so great, we could have her here and it would be so cool. But like, is that worth shoehorning her in? But we know that Dave Filoni loves a retcon, so he can just retcon the Rise of Skywalker and um make her still alive. Because that's not above him, unfortunately.
00:42:18
Speaker
Maybe retcon Ben Solo's death while you're at it, Dave Filoni. Honestly, Ahsoka sacrifice herself for Ben to live? oh i don't know if i like that.
00:42:30
Speaker
I mean, he's a Skywalker. yeah On that note, I think it's time for us to go. Well, Scotty, if there's nothing else, why don't you send us out of here since Ahsoka never will be?
00:42:43
Speaker
boom Well, it make sure to follow us on social media at WayseekersPod so you never miss out on any of our episodes. Thank you all so much for watching. And as always, may the Force be with you.