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The Empire’s Pawn... or Its Greatest Threat? (Syril Karn) — Andor S2 Arc 2 Breakdown & Reaction
29 Plays2 days ago
Syril Karn: Loyal Imperial… or Time Bomb Ready to Explode?
In this reaction, recap, and breakdown of Andor Season 2 Arc 2 (Episodes 4–6), we dive deep into the rising tension, fractured relationships, and shifting agendas threatening both the Empire and the Rebellion — all through the lens of Star Wars’ most unpredictable character: Syril Karn.
As deception spreads on both sides of the war, Syril is being lied to, used, and kept in the dark. But he’s not alone — everyone is reaching their breaking point.
We cover:
🔹 The one-year time jump and how it reshaped the rebellion
🔹 The tragic mission on Ghorman and Cinta’s death
🔹 Vel and Cinta’s relationship vs. Luthen’s cold strategy
🔹 Cassian’s moral shift and friction with Luthen
🔹 Mon Mothma’s political isolation and continued struggle
🔹 Bix’s trauma and revenge arc
🔹 Kleya’s espionage and the early signs of the Death Star
🔹 Krennic, K2SO, and what’s really behind Project Stardust
🔹 Syril and Dedra’s toxic relationship — is defection coming?
With major reveals, emotional payoffs, and dangerous threads converging, this arc sets the stage for a high-stakes finish — and we’re here to unpack every piece.
Episode Titles Discussed:
📺 Andor S2E4 – “Ever Been to Ghorman?”
📺 Andor S2E5 – “I Have Friends Everywhere”
📺 Andor S2E6 – “What a Festive Evening”
Recommended
Transcript
How does propaganda influence us?
00:00:00
Speaker
listening to him tell ed like it's just propaganda like they're literally selling you this stuff i'm like i feel like i'm like dealing with somebody's parents or grandparents who just sit and watch fox news all day because these are the things that i think i'm like you're being sold these ideas like right you haven't formulated them in your head you're just hearing it regurgitated over and over until you believe it And a lot of people with progressive ideas, I feel like can relate to the fact that it always kind of starts with your family, like trying to correct to the information that they've been told or the things they believe, the things they grow up with.
Introduction to 'This Is The Way Seekers' and 'Andor' Season 2
00:00:33
Speaker
It's funny because when he was actually introduced, I was like believing him.
00:00:37
Speaker
i was like, oh my God, are we going to see the Cyril Karn defection arc?
00:00:47
Speaker
Welcome back to This Is The Way Seekers, a podcast for Star Wars fans by Star Wars fans.
Is the one-year time jump in 'Andor' Season 2 effective?
00:00:53
Speaker
My name's Austin SWE and I'm joined with my Rebel co-pilot once again to be discussing the second arc of Andor Season 2, the first one-year time jump that we've been talking about, anticipating.
00:01:05
Speaker
Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Scotty, I want to ask you, basically that is it a good thing is it a bad thing did you enjoy this one year time jump i'm conflicted ah feel like aniket we just saw revenge of the sith i'm feeling conflicted because i want to say yes and no um i feel like it works really well for this story because there's just so much to tell and a lot of it's action um on the flip side i found myself being like i wonder what happened to take home a And um it's just like it's the slime war dinner from season one all over again. We're just not going to
Character evolution: Cinta and Vel
00:01:40
Speaker
know.
00:01:40
Speaker
Interesting. i I actually really enjoyed it. I think that they it was obviously a very big creative hurdle. And I think that they did it perfectly. I feel like like, for example, the take home a thing. Right.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yes, there's no direct, oh, this is what happened. But if you remember, Cinta mentioned that she got in an accident to Vel. I did think about that when she said that.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And we know that like timeline wise, the accident that she would have had to have gotten in with take coma to make it seem like an actual thing and not like she was murdering somebody. Oh, so you think she like crashed the speeder
How have relationships changed after the time jump?
00:02:20
Speaker
or something?
00:02:20
Speaker
ah she She would have had to, right? Like she couldn't have just taken in and killed him. I mean, he's like a high profile senator, right? Or he he's not a senator, but what is he exactly? He's a banker. He's like financial person who's like a very well-known financial person.
00:02:35
Speaker
I mean, I just imagine Sinta would pull an Aldani and just like put the blaster to his head and call it a day because she's a warrior. Right. But I think that, you know, it it just is a cleaner look that Te Colma got in a car accident rather than Colma mysteriously disappeared and no one knows where he went and yeah was possibly murdered.
00:02:57
Speaker
After the Skuld and Mothma wedding. Yeah, you're right. That probably have looked very cool. That feels a lot cleaner for Luthan for his work, though. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But overall, I liked having the one year time jump and kind of the creative ways that they continued the story. I feel like there was some, you know, some things that felt like direct continuations, like the Gorman stuff, for example.
00:03:20
Speaker
You know, I feel like I didn't really miss much, even though a year has happened. It's one of those things. things that's obviously going to take a few years. I think director credit for said that in his initial meeting, that it would take like three years or something like that overall. So I, I enjoyed it. I, I don't, I didn't mind
Cyril Karn's role and potential defection
00:03:38
Speaker
it basically. Well, one thing I did like,
00:03:41
Speaker
And I think you could probably agree with this is that we got to see how these relationships have changed in this year time, which I think was one of the coolest things about this episode. We got to see, you know, where Bix and Cassian were then, and now we could see them a year later.
00:03:55
Speaker
We saw Deidre and Cyril, whose relationship was completely new to us. And we can see where that relationship has gone a year. and even with Luton and Clea, like everybody everybody's relationships have kind of changed.
00:04:06
Speaker
I might even say that Lita being out of the house is maybe helping Perrin and Mon's relationship. Like, yeah it was very interesting. Yeah, you're so right. The relationships have changed a lot in this in this last year. I mean, think about even s Cyril's relationship with the Empire. He's now this...
00:04:24
Speaker
double agent working for the Imperial but Bureau of Standards on Gorman and convincing these rebels that he's some sort of, you know, sympathizer to their cause.
00:04:35
Speaker
It's so interesting. And I almost feel like the ISB, you know, uses him using him and they're even using his backstory of being fired by the ISB.
00:04:46
Speaker
You know, Cyril even uses that to his advantage, which I thought was so interesting. And kind of shows how dedicated he is to the empire because he's kind of like,
Can Cyril find redemption?
00:04:57
Speaker
you know, he thinks he's not getting in.
00:04:59
Speaker
He thinks he's getting in good with them. So he's willing to do anything, even like run his name through the mud, which isn't, he hasn't done that much, but you know, to him, like, and because of his mom, uncle Harlow, all that crap, like his,
00:05:14
Speaker
His appearance and the way he comes across to others and his success, it's very important to him. And it's crazy seeing him like his mom talks down all the time, but letting the empire essentially use it too their advantage. He's like, go ahead.
00:05:28
Speaker
I'm all in. It's crazy. Yeah. And he's so smart with it too, the way that he convinces them. He knows that they're listening, you know, talking about imperial propaganda with his mom saying that's what they're feeding you.
00:05:40
Speaker
But it's so interesting because it's clearly something that he realizes because we know as of the last arc, they are feeding imperial propaganda about Gorman to people.
00:05:51
Speaker
Is this something he's actually aware of and knows about? You know,
Challenges of progressive ideas vs. established beliefs
00:05:56
Speaker
it's funny because when he was actually introduced, I was like believing him when he was talking about it. i was like, oh my God, are we going to see the Cyril Karn defection arc here like our deflection arc here is it actually going to happen and you know it didn't and I was proven wrong um very quickly but I still feel like there's a possibility there right that he could eventually see what's actually going on sympathize with the people he's actually working with I could just see a world where you know he learned something that he really should be reporting back to Deidre but he just can't because in his like
00:06:32
Speaker
I don't want to say heart. I don't know if Cyril has a heart, but in his brain, in his calculative brain, he's like, well, technically you guys are, you know, killing these people and, you know, yeah spreading false information. i feel like he's just such a technical person.
00:06:47
Speaker
i feel like there's a world where he stops and is like, the fuck?
Cyril and Deidre: Allies or adversaries?
00:06:51
Speaker
but What's going on? Yeah, I think the fact that we know that Partagaz and Dedra are keeping things from him on the mission, I think that that could be the thing that kind of flipped a switch in his head to be like, well, if they don't trust me to like actually tell me why I'm here, why am I doing this to begin with?
00:07:10
Speaker
And I also think that part of it, it's funny because Edie's said multiple times like, oh, Coruscant's great. Come back to Coruscant. I almost wonder if being off of Coruscant and on his own again has made him question some of these things because he's not kind of like what I talked about with the first arc.
00:07:25
Speaker
He's not in the pressure cooker of Coruscant, like being fed this stuff. So he's looking at it from the outside instead. it It's just like listening to him tell Edie, like it's just propaganda. Like they're literally selling you this stuff.
00:07:38
Speaker
I'm like, I feel like I'm like dealing with somebody's parents or grandparents who just sit and watch Fox news all day. Cause these are the things that I think I'm like, you're being sold these ideas. Like you haven't formulated them in your head. You're just hearing it regurgitated over and over until you believe it, which is the propaganda of the empire. And just like we talked about last episode.
00:07:58
Speaker
And a lot of people with progressive ideas, I feel like can relate to the fact that it always kind of starts with your family, like trying to, correct to the information that they've been told or the things they believe the things they grow up with you know tell them to think for themselves and formulate their own opinions exactly so i'm almost like was like oh my god have we seen the start of it and you know you know me i love me a little redemption story in star wars so yeah you know it's it's serial karn and but i've been i feel like i've been seeing this coming since season one and there's no proof of it on this podcast but
00:08:34
Speaker
When I talked about season one and other avenues, I was like, Stenel Korn, I feel like, could could turn you know He's that character where... he he's He's basically an incel. He's been sold these ideas. He's been sold fascism as a solution to his loneliness. The fact that he doesn't have you know a community. The fact that his you know mother, the only person in his life, just looks down on him.
00:08:59
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, are we going to see kind of this changing this character? Now he has a girlfriend and he's is having sex. Turn the lights out. you know and and now...
Luthan's strategy and rebel tensions
00:09:11
Speaker
Maybe he's he's even going to sympathize with people. I really didn't want to believe that that's what they were doing with turning the lights out. I was like, maybe it's just because, you know, she doesn't want anybody to see in the windows.
00:09:21
Speaker
um Let's talk about their relationship for a sec, though, because in talking about this gap, like their relationship seems like it's not going the best. um She's got people watching Cyril just coming to her apartment. They've only got one hour.
00:09:38
Speaker
He doesn't seem happy about it. And I thought Deidre was going to be possibly the one to defect. um But it seems like, yeah, it's going to be the opposite. And the fact that Cyril, I assume, will eventually learn that Deidre is not telling him the truth or lying to him.
00:09:52
Speaker
that could be what breaks him because his mommy issues this new woman in his life. Like, and then he's like, you screwed me over too. That's why he got away from his mom.
00:10:04
Speaker
That's why he went to more Lana one in the first place to get away from her and to do something on his own. I could see him if, you know, the empire doesn't completely, which I guess we know they will like destroy Gorman. I could see him deciding to stay there and being a part of the community.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I do feel like there's that wedge. I said it last week where I felt like it was going to be the fact that she couldn't tell him about this you know mission.
00:10:31
Speaker
And it's interesting because he's like way more involved than I thought he would be, but say he still doesn't know he's doing all this for. what What have they told him?
00:10:42
Speaker
What does he think he's doing? We don't know. And this kind of goes back to what I said at the beginning, um like we're we're not going to know probably that's probably just information that's going to be left for us to wonder and I did have to think to myself imagine if we got a three episode arc of Cyril on Gorman if we had 12 episodes but yeah I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole we got plenty more to talk about Yeah, it is interesting, though. And that's one of the things because I keep going back and forth. And I think our conversation here shows that whether there is a possibility of Cyril Karn defecting or not, is that he doesn't even know what this mission is. He's just doing it. And he
Mission risks and relationship manipulation
00:11:22
Speaker
probably just tells himself it's for the greater cause of the empire.
00:11:26
Speaker
You know, that's what. Whatever they believe in is what I believe in. And so and what they think is right, he thinks is right. Literally. So I have no idea where he could go if he's going to be redeemed or not. I think you guys should let us know in the comments because we want to hear all the perspectives.
00:11:42
Speaker
Yes, because we can't make up our minds, obviously. And hopefully y'all can't either. We can all chat about it Yes, 100%. But he's very smart. Cyril is very smart. He's super analytical.
00:11:54
Speaker
like a hundred 100%. The way he's orchestrating this whole thing with allowing the rebels to win. So ah Dedra even says ah giving them a taste of what it's like to win and the ways that he's convincing them that he's a part of their cause. It's so calculated and so good that it's like, how is this guy undervalued by the ISB? how was I mean, I understand why he was fired. He, you know,
00:12:17
Speaker
very very much messed up it in season one, especially with what the Empire was doing, but it's like This guy has has a good brain that it's like so weird that he's the one that's like left out of it. you know i think... I'm pretty sure that even after when Dedra first interrogates him, when they first meet on Coruscant, he like literally screams like I could be an asset.
00:12:41
Speaker
And she's just like, don't ever fucking scream at me again. Literally. But this whole plan was so smart that it was successful. It worked. And was this the first time that we actually saw Cyril make plan?
00:12:54
Speaker
that was actually successful here i mean he wanted them to steal the cargo ship steal the i assume it's weapons or or something like that just the crates um and it was successful that's exactly what happened i mean cinta died but that doesn't bother him i knew she was gonna die too the emotional scene of her and vel i was like okay one of them's gonna die Yeah, 100%. Once they were both introduced and reunited, i was like, oh, God. And two, when they both said that they were there because they knew that the other would be there and they just wanted to see each other, I was like, oh God, this isn't going to go well because I feel like...
00:13:35
Speaker
they're not in it for the right reasons or, you know, I kind of thought about that too. I was like, Sinta is definitely acting way different than the last time we saw her. Cause before it was all about the mission and she was constantly letting Vel down on, on the, like as her partner, because all she was ever worried about. And she says, we take what comes left missions always first.
00:13:57
Speaker
And this time her being like, yeah, I feel horrible that I've been away from you for so long. I only took this mission cause i
Luthan's tactics vs. Cassian's approach
00:14:03
Speaker
wanted to be with you. Like, I was like, oh, this isn't going to end well. Gay people can never be happy.
00:14:09
Speaker
Ever, and especially in Star Wars. But even when Luthien, because Luthien kind of alludes to the fact that he knows that it could be unsuccessful, but he doesn't... it doesn't really matter. And I'm sure we'll get into this further with him and Cassian's dynamic, but his thought process is basically, if it goes bad, if Gorman burns and the empire, you know, fucks them all over, it's going to enact other people to, you know, fight against them and, and, you know, spark more rebellion elsewhere.
00:14:41
Speaker
and that's because everyone's just a chess piece to Luthan. Yeah. And we're definitely seeing that in this arc. Yeah, because that's exactly what i I was going to say is like Vel and Sinta, I almost feel like they he he allowed them to be on this mission together, knowing that one of them, if not both of them, could die and would die because they both say like Luthen values us apart, you know, rather than together.
00:15:08
Speaker
i'm like, oh, my God, this whole time I was like, oh, my God. I feel like he's scrambling to try to get all his wires from being crossed because we have Vell and Sinta who are romantically involved.
00:15:19
Speaker
Right. We have Bix and Cassian who are romantically involved again. and I think Luthan sees that those, that's an issue. and because Luthan's eyes is do whatever I have to do for the mission.
00:15:32
Speaker
need all my operatives to focus on the mission that comes first. Yeah. And obviously with Val and Sinta, that wasn't what came first for them because they didn't necessarily take it only, and they only took it because the other was going. and And then there's the struggle with Cassian and Bix and their relationship. Now Cassian trying to protect Bix from the world, essentially. And Luthan sees that's an issue as well.
00:15:54
Speaker
So Luthan, I do kind of think that Luthan is trying to split everybody up because, like I said, he's seeing that these emotional ties are causing issues.
00:16:06
Speaker
I mean, he says something to that effect when he speaks to Lonnie in the underworld in his amazing monologue in season one. He's like, I don't have relationships anymore. i don't have friends.
00:16:17
Speaker
It's just the rebellion and I'm going to die doing it.
Cassian's moral growth
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. And I feel like Luthan's mindset is almost, I feel like the way Andor is structuring it is that Luthan's mindset might be a little too extreme for what the rebellion is actually doing. And I feel like it's a natural progression here that we see Cassian and Luthan kind of have this wedge in between them because we know that Cassian is eventually part of Mon Mothma's rebellion, the one that she leads. and The wider rebellion.
00:16:47
Speaker
Exactly. The true rebel alliance. and I feel like they're almost setting it up where Cassian is going to, you know, yeah ah in terms of the ladder here, the the rebel ladder, he's going to surpass Luthan here. Because the way he's already thinking about, like, you know, are we just going to allow these people to die? Like, is that okay? Is that something that we can just...
00:17:12
Speaker
you know, allow to happen. i feel like it's just not part of the, the rebellions mindset here where they're like, Oh yeah, let's fuck over this planet so that all the other planets, just not even so that all the other planets will do well for the chance of all the other planets to prosper.
00:17:29
Speaker
We're not, we're not going to sacrifice lives for other lives basically. Well, and you know why? had Cassian unfortunately not seen it happen to his own planet, he wouldn't be able to make this decision now to walk
Ideological clash in rebellion strategies
00:17:42
Speaker
away.
00:17:42
Speaker
which is such a He's been on such a crazy arc already, Cassian, and I feel like this is also where the time jumps come into play because we get to see we don't actually get to see the growth, we just get to see it in motion.
00:17:55
Speaker
um or like see it as it's already happened. And we're clearly seeing that in this episode. And that's a really great point that you bring up is just the fact that Luthan's starting to get a little too radical, I guess you could say. And Cassian's the one trying to reel it it and Even Luthan says to him, he's like, I don't need you to think like a soldier. I need you to think like a leader. When in reality, who's really thinking like a leader in this situation?
00:18:20
Speaker
Cassian. Who's acting like a soldier? Luthan. or an extremist like his good friend saw. Yeah, 100%. And I think Cassian, like with how it all ended with him and Bix, you know but well, it was mostly Bix, but Cassian was present when that entire building was blown up that Dr. Gorst was in. you know So it's not like Cassian is of the mindset of like we can't have any violence. I feel like Cassian as a character is and
00:18:50
Speaker
for cassian he has the devil and an angel on his shoulders you know that that cliche thing maybe you could save the ashla and the bogan on either shoulder yes he has mon and luthan where mon's like you know we you know keep the peace in any way possible and luthan's like fuck it kill everybody if it means that there's peace you know and cast for the chance of peace exactly not even exist like that happy medium where i feel like yeah
00:19:22
Speaker
You know, he cannot 100% follow what Mon Mothma's ideals are, but he can't also 100% follow what Luthans are. I feel like in the end there, we see like a a good example of violence that's needed.
Bix's turning point
00:19:35
Speaker
You know, Dr. Gorst deserved that shit. The people that worked with Dr. Gorst...
00:19:41
Speaker
deserve that shit. Like those are people that, you know, needed to die in order for peace to happen. Oh, well, don't forget that major part of guys even mentions to, to the ISP officers, the emperor's like, working us we're gonna, we're gonna do more with Dr. Gore's program. We need more people to inflict this torture on the galaxy essentially and we already know they're taking in a bunch of prisoners because they talk about it a bunch of times in the episodes like that needed to be stopped because we've seen what it did to one person we've seen what it did to Bix and how she's still struggling poor things doing drugs just to sleep at night yeah ah oh my god
00:20:21
Speaker
Poor Bix. Poor fucking Bix. Let her catch a break. And we kind of got her little victory by the fact that she got to not only inflict Dr. Gorst's horrible tactics on himself, but then obviously got to blow up and keep that from ever happening to anybody else.
00:20:37
Speaker
So I hope that helps her move on from it because yeah clearly she don't have time for therapy. so Right. Do they even have that in Star Wars? feel like the therapist would be very busy in a galaxy far, far away.
00:20:49
Speaker
but Yeah, I feel like Bix will be able to sleep at night.
Star Wars therapy: A missed opportunity?
00:20:54
Speaker
You know, when she thinks of Dr. Gore, she's going to think about him being dead, him never being able to do this shit to anyone else ever again.
00:21:02
Speaker
It's just that that peace of mind there. And it's exactly Bix needs to continue. you know And for her to be strong, as Luthien says, he's like, he needs her at her best. And I'm kind of curious on how that mission even worked out, um how they ended up going to see Dr. Gorst. But I'm i'm glad that it did because also she was like, Cassian, you have to trust me to go on a mission.
00:21:26
Speaker
like And Cassian, it seems like he let her do the majority of the groundwork. Right. Yeah. I think it was just a bunch of things coming together for both Cassian and Bix, you know, because Bix brings up, you know, the point that you know, she does not want to fall in line with what Dr. Gorse is doing. you know, yeah she kind of saw herself in that soldier that was killed and she brings this up to Cassian. And I feel like the ending there was just a natural progression of everything that happened with Luthen and Cassian, their conversation with the conversations that Bix and Cassian had. It was kind of that happy medium, like I said, where, you know, this is violence, but it's not violence for the sake of it or, you know,
00:22:12
Speaker
for personal reasons, you know, Dr. Gorst and the people he worked with needed to die in order for peace to to be there. And so I will only agree with you in the sense of Star Wars in this galaxy. And in this story, yes, the violence needed to happen.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, well. There may be some cases in the real world, but... We're not a we're not um a political podcast. We're a Star Wars podcast.
00:22:38
Speaker
oh yeah Because, you know, those two things are completely different. Yeah, there's no politics in Star Wars whatsoever.
Clea's espionage and mission stakes
00:22:45
Speaker
ah So speaking of politics, let's catch up with our our senators here. It's funny because all within the same room, we have key figures of the empire and key figures of the rebellion.
00:22:56
Speaker
And Clea has to work in front of all of them in one of the most... thrilling heart racing um spy sequences in all of star wars and it's so interesting because it's something that you know it just feels so minuscule compared to the other things we see in star wars you know she has to yeah take a microphone from an artifact yes it's but it's everything big thing exactly it's everything that's at stake Exactly. like everything that we've watched in this episode falls apart if she does not find this listening device.
00:23:30
Speaker
And when I say everything in this episode, I'm not just talking about her and Luthan. I'm talking about Gorman. I'm talking about Cyril. I'm talking about Cassian, Bix, all of them. Even Mon- Yeah, Mon and Davos golden, you know, funding for the rebellion.
00:23:44
Speaker
Well, we don't know if Davos and on that part, but still even the melting pot of all the people in that room and we have Mon like trading blows with director Krennic just right there.
00:23:56
Speaker
yeah and then that was important and poor lani young he has to always be involved in the most stressful situations he did not ask to be a part of he wanted to stay with dedra's twink assistant throwing back drinks but of course clay was like pretend we're flirting and i love this artifact and i'm gonna tell you about it and then she's actually like if you don't smile and move to the left like everything's over for all of us so shut up and move she's like she's always on fire i love clea she's always on fire that's a good way to put it yeah she just i'm so glad that she's being highlighted more in in this arc and in this season specifically because i was so over her in season one i was like why is she here
00:24:40
Speaker
right But now we're actually seeing her do things and she's being kind of funny without
Navigating Empire's internal tensions
00:24:44
Speaker
trying. Like I'm actually enjoying her directness as a character because they're putting her in these, in these situations between the wedding, which was kind of like a bubbling pot waiting to burst.
00:24:55
Speaker
And then the same thing in this room with the listening device. um I was really curious why she was listening in on Davos golden. And it never clicked in my head that, Oh, she's got a listening device in there. And that's why.
00:25:06
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I guess I didn't think of it at first. I was like, what's the importance of this? But I knew, you know, Davos Golden being involved. I was just like, I'm sure I'll come to me of something Something skeezy is going on because Davos Golden's involved. Remember, he's a thug.
00:25:22
Speaker
So weve got to watch we got to watch what he's doing and figure it out. i wish I wish we got more of the politics in this episode, but I feel like I was really treated with the first arc. So the second arc was never going to be able to was never going to be able to give me everything I wanted.
00:25:37
Speaker
I did enjoy watching Mon go around trying to get votes. still talking about Still talking about the PORRD. I don't know how far you've read into the Mask of Fear, but it's something that we also see her doing in the book in some of the early chapters. So I kind of like that we got to see her go around and just see a little bit of the politics of it all.
00:25:56
Speaker
um That scary Oathbringer man in the Senate, Didn't like that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was so funny, too, because they're literally doing something similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, to the national anthem.
00:26:13
Speaker
yeah And it's seen as like this, like, oh my God, like what the fuck, this fucking cult. and It was unsettling and cultish. And I would have been right with Mon walking out of the room. I wouldn't be able to handle that. and But I mean, think of how how different is it from having kids do the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in class? like It's like holding up a mirror to to America and being like, look how fucking you know stupid and scary you guys look. Well, that's why that's why I stopped saying it in school. um Me too.
00:26:45
Speaker
And then the ROTC kids would be like, stand up! No, no, no. But yeah, I wish we had more politics. I'm glad with the politics we did get because it also brought the camp back into this episode, which this was a lots of dialogue.
00:27:00
Speaker
There's a lot of dialogue in this arc. And I feel like because maybe I'm at 80% because i haven't been feeling well, it was going a little over my head. i definitely wrote way more notes this time around. But a lot of the questions that were brought up were answered by the end.
00:27:15
Speaker
That's exactly what I was just going to say is I too was struggling with like, okay, what exactly is going on with Cyril and, you know, his mission?
Complex plot threads intertwining
00:27:26
Speaker
Is he feeding the information to them? Or, you know, is he secretly giving it to them? You know, are they just trying to hire him. what What exactly is going on? But then by the end of it, I was like, okay, I understand it now.
00:27:40
Speaker
Because two, I was like, wait a second. i For some reason, I thought when they were doing the whole mission that it was going to blow up right then and there. like sayday They were going to fail and you know they were going to kill all the rebels.
00:27:54
Speaker
i For some reason, it slipped my mind or I wasn't paying attention in that scene when he was when him and Deirdre were like, This is what needs to happen. So yeah, it is one of those things where everything all comes together in the end once you're finished with it and you're like,
00:28:10
Speaker
Oh, and you know what's funny about that? What's funny about it is both the ISB and Axis Luthen, they're both separately struggling with being given too much information and not knowing how to really handle everything.
00:28:25
Speaker
And it's kind of funny how that was a parallel of us watching the episode. So it all worked out in the end, but I thought that was really funny. it's This was an interesting arc.
00:28:36
Speaker
I'll say that.
Fan service and sequel connections
00:28:37
Speaker
I think that this arc specifically would have benefited from three weeks, you know, oh yes for sure because we would had time to process everything um and i could have used that processing time because i'm not gonna lie when we finished i was like oh my god i have no idea what i'm gonna talk about or how i'm going to talk about it yeah it really was a lot and something we haven't even mentioned yet is willman and dakar i you know sequel fan sequel lover and i almost feel like it It had to have been on this podcast too that you said that that planet looked like Dakar from The Force Awakens when we saw it in the trailer.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yes, I was hoping for Dantooine, but I also said it looked very similar to Dakar. um i always complain that they never revisit other locations. And then here I am being like, of course it had to be Dakar, some boring planet we only see for five minutes. So it's like, I'm never happy.
00:29:35
Speaker
As much as I hate the fact that the sequels are just, ah you know, rehash of Rebellion versus Empire, I am a sucker for them showing sequel locations in the original trilogy era.
00:29:51
Speaker
In Leia, Princess of Alderaan, we see them operating from the crate base that we see in The Last Jedi, but it's like before A New Hope. So it's actually Bail Organa and like the Alderaan Rebel cell.
00:30:04
Speaker
They operate out of crate. So I like seeing it where it's like, oh, okay, so the rebels used this. So when, you know, the resistance came across it, there was actual precedent for them to be there because this was a rebel base, you know? it was an old rebel base. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:30:20
Speaker
I agree. i do I love when they take something from another era in Star Wars and insert it into a completely different era because it's just fun to have that connectivity. And it's not like in an obnoxious fan service-y way. it's just like like you said, this was an old Rebel base. Now the Resistance is using it.
00:30:38
Speaker
Or this was a Resistance base. Oh, but it was an old Rebel base, and here are the Rebels so on said base.
Saw Gerrera's influence on rebels
00:30:44
Speaker
The Saw stuff was very bizarre. yeah it was it was it was I think it was important though and I feel like it was very powerful by the end seeing Willman actually have that moment ah you know He drank Kool-Aid drank the Kool-Aid that's what that moment was he's He's joining the cause and I just feel like you know for a character like him you know he's going to lose his fucking mind yeah i mean He was the one that made a bomb feel like
00:31:13
Speaker
iphon makes I feel like if Saw Gerrera were to get a hold of Bix, like the same thing would happen by the end where she's like, you know, well, accepting the fact that she's kind of fucking crazy now that everything has happened.
00:31:27
Speaker
With her current mental state, yes. With her with not in this mental state, no. wilman Willman is someone who is begging for, um i don't want to say violence, but I feel like he's easily preyed upon because of the things he's had done wrong to him.
00:31:46
Speaker
He's lost his father. He's lost his girlfriend now. His home. he He lost his home. Yeah, true. So i feel like he's vulnerable to be inflicted by Saw's insanity. know Yeah, 100%. But I still feel like it's it's powerful. And I still feel like even though Saw Gerrera, you know, he's he's very criticized within the Star Wars canon.
00:32:09
Speaker
Someone like him and his partisans are still very much... needed. Like with Cassian being the happy medium there, it's like all these characters are still needed for them all to come together.
00:32:22
Speaker
And, you know, obviously Saw Gerrera and his partisans never come together, but he's still like a of vital part of the rebellion. Like the rebellion does not exist without Saw Gerrera, even though they don't operate with him. the The things he's done, the things he's, you know, led,
00:32:40
Speaker
It's he's he's a he's a key part of it. And
Rebellion's internal challenges
00:32:43
Speaker
that means that Wilman is still going to be a key part of everything. Now, is he going to be used as kind of a lens for the differences here? And, you know, we'll eventually get to see him. Yeah.
00:32:57
Speaker
yeah Like, I feel like, at least in a perfect world for me, he would eventually, you know, move away from Saw and his partisans and join the rebels on Yahoo. He drank the Kool-Aid. Like I said, it ain't happening.
00:33:10
Speaker
And we do know he eventually ends up on Gore. Yeah. Or on Gorman. Well, that's what I mean. Like, if if he's... I feel like there's a world where he kind of sees the the issues with what Saw Gerrera's partisans are doing.
00:33:26
Speaker
And that's what I mean. like He's kind of used as a lens to like criticize Saw Gerrera. Well, like we we probably won't get to see that because we have to move to 2BBY next week. So we'll probably either he'll be he'll be in with Saw Gerrera or he'll be back with Cassian.
00:33:44
Speaker
I feel like we're not going to get that happy medium. Right. I feel like it is a possibility because I actually didn't know that he was on Gorman, so I'm taking your word for it. Oh, yeah. It's in the trailers.
00:33:56
Speaker
Interesting. So, like, maybe there's a world where everybody meets on Gorman. like I mean, we have to. We have to go back there. There's, there's gotta be a Gorman massacre too.
Mon Mothma's pivotal role
00:34:08
Speaker
And I love they acknowledge the first Gorman massacre with the Tarkin massacre. Cause that was like a legends thing and they brought it back into Canon in a way that still fit with the story.
00:34:18
Speaker
So I love that. um But we, but we've got to see, we know Gorman's like the big, that's the big event that's happening over these years with season two. So we're going back there for sure. and Well, yeah, that's not what I mean. I mean, I know Tony Yoroi said there's five episodes with Gorman.
00:34:34
Speaker
I mean, are we going to see Mon Mothma, Cassian, Luthan, and then Saw Gerrera's partisans? Are they all going to be on Gorman meeting up? Like, is this going to be the location where...
00:34:46
Speaker
Everything fucking blows up because now everybody's wires are being crossed here because if we're seeing Willman on Gorman, then that means Saw's partisans can't be too far behind him. Right. Oh, like maybe do you mean like maybe we could see them even not necessarily lines getting crossed, but like trying to work together on this.
00:35:05
Speaker
not even trying to work together, but everybody's going to be in the same spot at once. yeah All the characters are finally going to come together. I don't know if it'd be like them working together. i actually think that it would cause more chaos.
00:35:18
Speaker
Well, anything war almost.
00:35:22
Speaker
I mean, I could see it in a way of like the rebellions trying to work together or like trying to work together as these separate cells. And then it literally blows up in their face and proves to why they can't work with Saw or with certain groups.
00:35:35
Speaker
um I don't know how it's going to come together, but I would like to think that at some point, even if it's not on Gorman, these few cells that we have been following are going to have to cross paths with each other. And it seems like Gorman is the Empire's huge priority right now, too.
00:35:51
Speaker
Right. Yeah. um I'm very interested to see how it all plays out. Like I said, we know we have two more episodes of Gorman. um I've also, you know, I've been watching some interviews. um Mon Mothma or Genevieve O'Reilly says that Mon Mothma has a really big scene in episode nine that she's said that she's very proud of that she had to channel her inner Mon Mothma to even do Oh, yay. That makes me excited.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah. I can only assume it's her like giant you know monologue denouncing the Empire and the Emperor after Gorman, but we'll see. Well, know what's
Will Mon Mothma and Luthan clash?
00:36:27
Speaker
funny? We got no monologues this arc, and I was like...
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah. feel like what we've been having was a little close. Lots of dialogue, no monologue. Yeah. So that was a little disappointing. And I wish we got more Mon, but I'm going to say that about every episode of Andor.
00:36:44
Speaker
So I'm excited to see her get some more time highlighted episodes. I'm excited to see her and Cassian meet, because even though you wouldn't know it from Rogue One, um a lot of the expanded material shows that they work very closely together.
00:37:00
Speaker
I think that she's going to order Cassian to kill Luthan. You think? I think we've talked about this before. I think we have too. I don't know if it was before or we talked about it last week, but yeah, I could definitely see that being the case.
00:37:15
Speaker
um but especially after Especially after um he had her boyfriend killed. No, i'm just kidding. That's not going to play into it. Yeah. mon and luthan reunited i was waiting for something you know same same here and of course we did not get it which is as i said i was left being like well what happened at today right i think the car accident or i keep saying car accident it's a fucking speeder wreck the speeder wreck um i feel like that's gonna be the only you know knowledge we have of it
00:37:49
Speaker
Actually, no, I feel like there still has to be something I feel like where Mon Mothma confronts Luthen, confronts Saw Gerrera. Like, I feel like those moments are very vital and key to this rebellion. Well, that's what I'm saying. i think I think that'll come after. There's going to be some kind of introduction between Luthen and or like with Cassian, i think from Luthen to Mon Mothma.
00:38:13
Speaker
As far as we know now, they're working together. And the introduction might happen between arcs. So they may already know each other in the next one. But
Empire's secret weapon discovery
00:38:21
Speaker
I think it's going to get to a point where Luthan's too willing to sacrifice so much and sacrifice so many lives.
00:38:27
Speaker
With Mon Mothma being the humanitarian at the end of the day, she wants to do whatever she can to save as many lives as possible. And her and Luthan are going to have to butt heads. And we keep talking about how he is not on Yavin.
00:38:40
Speaker
Like he's not in any of those scenes. He's got to die at some point. And I've almost feel like we're starting to see maybe him unravel a little bit in this arc where it's getting a little in over his head. There's too much.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. Like it's all it's all kind of crashing down. We're going to have to see some sort of organization. I feel like that starts to come with the next arc. I feel like they can't do all of that in the last three episodes with Yavin.
00:39:08
Speaker
But I don't know. We'll see. I have not seen anybody who watched this show complain, especially about the second half of the series. So I'm very interested to get into that. um What are some things we can expect for the next arc?
00:39:22
Speaker
I think we're going to have to get an update with the energy program in Krennic. um We've only had a little bit of Krennic so far. And so I think, you know what, I'm pretty sure we know we're getting K2SO's introduction next week.
00:39:36
Speaker
So I could see some kind of Imperial um infiltration yeah trying to figure out why Gorman is so important. Yeah. We know Clea eventually finds out about the Death Star.
00:39:50
Speaker
So we know that from the trailer. So I almost wonder if maybe this could be them starting to figure out that the Imperial or the Empire is building a super weapon. They're building something that they're keeping hidden from everyone.
00:40:03
Speaker
And they're finding out that's why Gorman is so important. I think that could be where we go. And that could also make it so K2SO comes in That makes sense. Kind of like the the Discovery arc, we'll call it like they they kind of are honing in on like what the Empire's goals actually are here. We know the Death Star is a big part of it.
00:40:23
Speaker
And so now with that knowledge, they can kind of form um their rebellion against that because they don't issue. And yeah because they don't have a choice. They don't have a choice at that point. They have to work together or else they are all going to
Future arcs and potential defections
00:40:37
Speaker
die. And I think if I remember correctly, I think in the trailer that we saw, Clea says that like, it's a weapon, they're building a weapon.
00:40:45
Speaker
So they don't even know what kind of weapon it is. They don't know it's a super weapon, a planet killer at this point. um Obviously we know that comes at the end of rogue one when they actually get the plans. But ah yeah, that's, that's where I think we're going. And I'm interested to see if we're going to see any more defection.
00:41:01
Speaker
Right. Because it seems like Lonnie is also talking to other officers in the ISB. And I was curious if we're going to see him eventually cluing them in on some stuff.
00:41:12
Speaker
We never saw any of that. So I'm interested to see where we're going to catch up with everybody. I'm interested to see if everybody that's currently alive now is going to be alive. in a year.
00:41:24
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I don't know if they'll kill anybody off screen, but I'd be interested to see. But something that kind of just clicked in my mind just now after having this whole conversation, Luthien's biggest flaw is the fact that he wants everything to be separated.
00:41:41
Speaker
Not only the different rebel cells, but he wants Velen sent it to be separated. Like, I feel like that is his biggest flaw here. That's going to be the biggest thing that gets challenged with Luthen is like we have to come together.
00:41:55
Speaker
Well, I mentioned that and we're almost seeing it in a minuscule scale where he's like, and we have to split up these relationships between Vixen, Cassie and Vell and Sinta because they're just going to make things more difficult.
00:42:06
Speaker
And that's on the minuscule, small scale. Whereas in the larger scale, the rebellion can't be split up. It has to be together. And we know Mon thinks that we see her talk about it in Rebels after she makes her speech.
00:42:18
Speaker
right So that could also be the thing that kind of causes an ounce with them. that'll Yeah, it'll definitely be his downfall. And I feel like that's like a, you know, continuous theme throughout season two.
00:42:31
Speaker
You know, we know that at least three out of four arcs, we don't know what the next arc is going to be, but three out of four arcs are going to be about infighting and coming together.
00:42:42
Speaker
The first arc, the second arc, and then the fourth arc, we know they're going to all come together. So yeah, very interesting theme here of the entire season. um I'm so excited to see where it all goes.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah, you and I both. And I think the perfect way to end the episode is with my favorite quote from the episode. What's that? We should have killed Krennic while we were up there. Yes.
00:43:05
Speaker
Yes, I did love that moment. And Clay being like, that's the spirit. That is the spirit. But as we have to wait what feels like a million years for the next episode, Scotty, until then, why don't you send us out of here?
00:43:19
Speaker
Make sure you follow us on social media at WayseekersPod or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out on any of our and or content. Thank you all so much for watching. And as always, may the force be with you.