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EPISODE 121: MOTHERHOOD IS TERRIFYING!
724 Plays6 months ago
EPISODE 121: MOTHERHOOD IS TERRIFYING!
"Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children,” quoth THE CROW, and in this episode, we’re talking all about MOMS— from the good to the bad to the downright terrifying!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
It doesn’t get any better than SERIAL MOM and MAMA!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
HOOK UP, HACK UP, SHACK UP
Our terrifying version of Fuck, Kill, Marry… what will the boys decide? Listen in now!
–
A proud, independent podcast
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Friday the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit Friday13.com. All right, Maddie, which of these celebrities really scream just mother to you? OK, like goddess status. Yeah. Yeah. OK. First up, Joni Mitchell. Oh, mother, mother.
00:00:25
Speaker
Okay, how about Reba McIntyre? Mother! Mother! Sarah Michelle Geller? Horror mother. Taylor Swift? Maybe more like Sister? Okay, how about Marjorie Taylor Greene? Stepmother.
Hosts' Personal Experiences with Motherhood
00:00:46
Speaker
It's episode 121. Motherhood is terrifying. I am the writing.
00:00:53
Speaker
the whisper in the classroom. I'm Marjorie Greene, and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Thank you all, and we honor thee from life to death. All right, we are right. Doubters, the doomsders, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong.
00:01:23
Speaker
Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now! Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh? What are you waiting for? I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes, that is better. What is the worst thing you've heard your mommy say?
00:01:54
Speaker
Can I say it? Let's see. I'm serious. All I can think of really. Those are the two absolute worst. She's a monster.
00:02:20
Speaker
Welcome to Episode 121 of Frage the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Andrew. And I am Matty. And if this is your first time to Frage the 13th Horror Podcast, we are a podcast that talks not only about horror in the movies, but also horror in real life. And today we are talking all about that scary, scary time of motherhood. Yeah.
00:02:47
Speaker
And something that both of us have experienced as mothers ourselves. Yeah. Well, as sons of mothers, we know a little bit. And as and as motherfuckers, both of us, we do we have that part of it down. Yeah. But yeah, today we're talking all about motherhood. Actually, it's really fun because we're recording this on Mother's Day. Yeah. Which is which is pretty cool. Got to spend some time with the in-laws yesterday. I'll go ahead and give
00:03:16
Speaker
I'll go ahead and give my mom a call after this. And we're very lucky that both of us still have our moms around for the time being. When we get to Father's Day, it'll be a different story. The Father's Day episode will be much more depressing in June. Look forward to that.
00:03:37
Speaker
Yeah, I called my mom today and it's always weird being six hours ahead of your mother, you know? Yeah, of course. And sometimes seven hours ahead or no, sometimes five hours ahead, pardon me, because she's just old. So I got on FaceTime. What I do is I FaceTime my sister and then my sister uses her phone to give it to mom.
00:04:01
Speaker
And my mom was like, can you believe your mother's 87? And I said, you're going to be 88 this year. I said, mom, you're going to live, you are going to live to 120. I just know it. And she started laughing. And mind you, it was like 345 here when I called and she said, okay, well, sweet dreams, sleep well. I was like, mom, I'm not going to bed yet. And she was like, oh, I thought it was late there. It was pretty funny.
00:04:23
Speaker
Um, but, but Andrew, I called my mom, um, cause it's mother's day of course, but also because, um, and I was telling our, our, our friends on Patreon and our Patreon group chat about this. I got a new tattoo yesterday and it is all about my mother. Would you like to hear about it, Andrew? Yeah, go, go for it. So I have told this story before, um, probably on our, was it our aliens episode? Yeah, I'm assuming. Yeah. One of those for sure. Anyways, I've, I've, I've, I've probably told it a few times.
00:04:53
Speaker
times on the show, whatever. But when I was little, about 10, I don't remember exactly how old I was, but about 10 years old, my mom and I saw a UFO. By far, it was one of the most foundational things in my childhood that set me up to be the weirdo adult that I am now as a co host on a podcast.
00:05:12
Speaker
about about horror stuff. But it's a story that's not super dramatic. My mom and I were just we were driving one night and, you know, my mom loved to take like evening drives and we were driving through my hometown. We went and got ice cream, listening to the radio, whatever. And my mom said that she heard me say, wow, when I was looking out the window. And so she kind of like, you know, ducked her head to look through the windshield of our of our woody station wagon back then.
00:05:40
Speaker
And she said that what she saw made her slam the brakes. She stopped the car. She opened the door. She got out. She got me out. And we both stood looking up at this UFO. It wasn't like the UFO of the movies. It wasn't like a bunch of flashing lights. We didn't get abducted. It wasn't like a bunch of noise or whatever. In fact, it was silent.
00:06:03
Speaker
It was completely opaque against the sky, and it was gigantic. It was like two football fields long of just this oval shape in the sky. I didn't realize it was that big. Yeah, and I can see it in my head right now. It was like gray, impossible to miss. But what's so crazy is that there was nobody, and this happens for a lot of UFO people that have seen UFOs.
00:06:26
Speaker
There was nobody around us at the time, nobody like this totally silent. Maybe it was a Sunday, Sunday night. And so, you know, I don't remember exactly all of it because I was so young, but my mom sure does. And my mom said that she got us back in the car because she wanted to really quickly buzz across to the other side of town to see if she could like see it from the front or, you know, or at least from another side kind of thing.
00:06:51
Speaker
So we got in the car, we zoomed over to the other side of town, really not that far away. And by the time that we got there, it was gone. And so it's a story that we've told a lot over the years. It's actually an X-Files magazine, number two, from way back in the day. But I always tell folks like, you know, if you don't believe me, I don't really care because I know what happened.
00:07:13
Speaker
But if you talk to my mother who does not lie, she will tell you the exact same story. And so the tattoo that I got and we'll put a photo up on our social because I'm really proud of it. It's a UFO on the top and it has kind of like a beam coming down and you have to kind of like make your tattoo stylish. So this isn't exactly what happened.
00:07:35
Speaker
But it has a little beam coming down onto a silhouette of my mom holding my hand. And I'm a little boy, of course, and we're both looking up at this big UFO in the forest. And when I got to the tattoo parlor yesterday and the artist showed me what she had done with it, I started bawling because I just knew it was exactly what I wanted. And I would have this lovely memory of me and my mom
00:08:04
Speaker
on my arm forever and my sister showed my sister showed her the photo of it and my mom started crying which was which is really sweet to hear so she really loves it too so i really love my mom my mom has
00:08:22
Speaker
My mom, well, should we just talk about our moms now? Talk about our moms. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So my mom is, she's going to be 88 this year. She had nine children. She lost her husband when she was 60 years old. She still had to raise me at the time. And she raised nine kids.
00:08:43
Speaker
nine kids think about that. I can't even think about having one. I know she she she was raising kids from the time she was 21 basically until God like when did I turn 21? When did I turn eight until until I went to college until math is two.
00:09:01
Speaker
Math is hard, right? So how about this? From 1957 until the year 2000, basically, she was raising children, her own children, plus a ton of grandkids and nieces and nephews and you fucking name it. My mom is a matriarch. My mom is like the head of a dynasty. She doesn't get that. She would never think of herself that way, but I think that we all think of her that way.
00:09:28
Speaker
And, um, you know, like she's, she's closer. I mean, look, this happens to all moms, doesn't it? She's closer to the latter end years of her life than she is. And so, you know, that is the way that it is for everybody. Eventually you lose your parents. For me and Andrew, we lost our dads in a really weird way, you know, through, through just weird circumstances, not natural.
00:09:49
Speaker
Um, our moms, we will lose in a natural way. I'm sure of it. And it's going to be different. It'll be different for me, for me and you, Andrew, you know, like that's going to be, that's going to be weird. And you know, for my mom, it's going to, it's going to come soonish, you know, and I think about this often, like.
00:10:04
Speaker
You know, I think I think I'm a little bit obviously I'm more prepared for her than I was for my dad. But it's still something that's, you know, it's crazy to think about. Like one day you're just not going to be there. This person who's always been there in my life and who has done everything for me.
00:10:21
Speaker
and who made sure that I'm fucking alive. It's incredible. And for as much as she has driven me nuts over the years and still does sometimes. That's a mother's job. That's her fucking job, right? And I love her for that. My mom too, she always did things for me that clearly showed she was getting it. You know what I mean?
00:10:48
Speaker
prime example, like when DVDs were new or new ish anyway, like woman went out and bought me the Rocky Horror Picture Show on DVD. You know what I mean? I didn't even ask for it. She just, it was just like at home one day and I was like, Oh, that's cool. Thanks mom. Like she just like got it. You know, I feel like a one story that always resonates with me with about your mom that you told me over the years is when she at Christmas would buy you
00:11:11
Speaker
two DVDs. So when the one wore out, you would have another one. And like, it wasn't just that it was like two of everything. So it was like two of like, two of like a sleeping bag, two of a book, two of a whatever. And like, when I think about it, like, you know, my mom, I think that like her philosophy of motherhood
00:11:32
Speaker
I would imagine because she grew up, she grew up pretty poor and like her dad, my grandfather, who was very, very old, he was literally in the Spanish American war. Literally, I'm not even joking. Like he was
00:11:48
Speaker
from all stories, I never met the man of course, but from all stories that I know, he was just a bit of a fucking asshole. And like, yeah, you know, they didn't have a lot of money though. And you know, my mom's mom died when she was 13 years old. And you know, she was basically raised by my aunt Annette who I adore and who left this world a long time ago.
00:12:05
Speaker
But like, she didn't never got Christmas gifts. She never got this. She never got that. Her dad didn't do things that were sweet. And so I think when my mom had kids, it was just like, I want to do whatever I can for them. So we never had a dry Christmas. We never had a dry birthday. We always had clothes. We always had everything, even though my parents struggled a lot.
00:12:30
Speaker
And I know that. And I don't know. It's what a parent does. I know I get that. But also, I don't know. When it's your parent that does it, it just means so much. Yeah, of course. I mean, when anybody does anything special for you, it means a lot. And that's something that's really missing in this world right now, I feel like. It's just like doing something special for someone.
00:12:56
Speaker
Big time. But yeah, my mom is younger. I mean, she had me when she was 19. So there's that. And she was never married to my dad. So a very like...
00:13:11
Speaker
I didn't know she wasn't married to your dad. I didn't realize that. No, I was a love child. A love child, baby. Yeah. And a bastard. No, I'm just joking. No, but no, I was conceived out of lust, I guess, even though my dad was gay. But we'll talk about that on another episode.
00:13:33
Speaker
Uh, different time, different time. Um, but no, just like totally different upbringing than you, but with so many similar circumstances. So like, um, I, so, so my mom married my brother's dad when I was three. Okay. So for all intensive purposes, I thought that my brother's dad was my dad, like for the longest time. You were young enough that that makes sense to be honest. Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker
or I thought my dad was on my uncles, but that's like because I was like raised by them, but that's what. But so for the longest time, I thought that and then when they decided to, you know, part ways, they kind of told me the whole story when I could end it, you know, and then just like it was kind of like.
00:14:21
Speaker
me and my mom conquer the world for the longest time because she was in and out of like some bad relationships and some like, you know, we had roommates like growing up like other female roommates with kids and like, yeah, it was it was it was just kind of bounced around a lot. I mean, we went for me, I grew up in northern Michigan and I went to six different elementary schools between first and sixth grade. So like, Andrew, that's what that's one for every year plus. Yeah, exactly.
00:14:53
Speaker
So it was a lot of bouncing around. It was a lot of instability, but I could always count on my mom to be the stable part of that instability.
00:15:02
Speaker
I really appreciate everything that she sacrificed so that I could be who I am today. Um, but you know, that's, that's kind of the thing. And you know, she's, she's stable now. She's been married for many, many years now and they live a very happy existence up in that, up in that Northern woods in Michigan. But, uh, you know, it took some time to get there and it took a lot of, uh, it taught me a lot about relationships and a lot about what a good relationship and a bad relationship looked like.
00:15:31
Speaker
yeah sure and so like that's that's motherhood right there is just like teaching your kids what's i don't know what's what's what because i i feel like this is like the the crux of like what i'm trying to think how to how to phrase this but like
00:15:48
Speaker
This is what why motherhood is so stressful is because you feel like you have to shape the children because like and I think it's changing a lot in like modern day parenting. But like back in back in when we were kids, the dad's job was to like have a job and bring home the money and like figure it out. And like mom's job was like to like like literally what you said, like raise the kids. Yeah. I think that's changed a lot in modern and parenting. It's changed in huge ways.
00:16:18
Speaker
But that's a lot of burden to put on a person is to shape people. You know what I mean? Yeah, it is. I used to talk to my friend Lizzie about this often. We were terrified to have children because we know that every single thing you do shapes the child.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, my God, how do you live with just the stress of that? Like knowing you say one wrong thing and the kid's brain is messed up forever. You know what I mean? It's like they'll they'll never forget that now. Great. Well, and it's funny, like I feel like in my late teens, early 20s, I blamed a lot of things on my parents. Oh, God, everyone does. Yeah. And then.
00:17:04
Speaker
By the time I got to like my late thirties, I was kind of like, oh, this is just like what life handed you and you had to deal with it. And I'm really sorry about that. Like, you know, there's I forget who said it, but like there there's sort of like a general maxim in psychology that's basically like until you just forgive your parents, you can never move on.
00:17:25
Speaker
kind of thing. And I largely think that's true. I mean, look, every, but there's always going to be an exception, abusive parents or whatever. Well, we're going to talk about some of them. Oh, for sure. But you know what I mean? In general, if you had a fairly, I put this in big ass air quotes, normal childhood, yeah, eventually you just kind of, you need to forgive.
00:17:50
Speaker
Even my mom, when I was a kid, you don't understand I worshipped my mother. My mother was the pinnacle of all humanity. In a lot of ways, she still is for me. But that changes as you grow older and you become an adult and you understand things. You also have to ruminate on like, wow, why am I this way about that thing or whatever it might be?
00:18:15
Speaker
And you know, there were some things in my childhood that I was like, fuck mom, why did you not do this? Or why did you do that? And you know, it really took me until like, I don't know, maybe like five years ago to finally just go like, because she didn't know what the fuck else to do.
00:18:31
Speaker
Everyone's just continuously learning. I mean, think about our moms. Our moms didn't have fucking iPhones to refer to all the fucking time for any problem at all with your child. Like, oh, my child has a cough? Okay, let me go to my iPhone. Our parents didn't have that. They had to figure fucking everything out and just sort of deal with the knowledge that had been passed down to them by their mothers or their grandmothers or their aunts or whoever it might be.
00:19:03
Speaker
There is something special about like the bond that a mother has with their child as opposed to the father. Like the mother really does shape the child because the bond is so strong between a mother and a child. And it's, you know, for a number of developmental reasons, you know, obviously breastfeeding and like just like the first person to hold you was probably your mom. Not to mention you grew up in her fucking womb. You know what I mean? Like the bond is strong. And, you know, look, I, I,
00:19:23
Speaker
But that is the thing, it's like...
00:19:32
Speaker
I know that I am I know that you are I hope people out there listening to I hope that you have reason to be proud of the person that you became from your mother and I hope that if you don't have that and that's okay if you don't it really is I hope that you you have healing from it at some point at least
Exploring Troubling Maternal Stories
00:19:48
Speaker
But Andrew, maybe we should talk about some mothers who are not so great, who will who will not be healing in their children's lives completely not. What should we we've got some good shit here? What should we start with? What do you think? Well, I can start with mine if you want. Yeah, sure. Go ahead. So Shirley Winters, do you know this story because I stumbled upon it in a way that will be revealed by the end of my story?
00:20:15
Speaker
I saw it in the notes and I, and I remembered the name, but I don't remember the story at all. So it'll be new to me. So Shirley Winters, uh, she had a, she had a very weird childhood, but when you learn more about her, it gets even weirder. Can I, can I just say this to you before you even go into it? Do you ever think Shirley Winters just thought one day like, Hmm, one day I'll be talked about on a podcast. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
00:20:41
Speaker
All right. In 1966, her life starts pretty crazily. Um, Winters, a 10 year old brother and four and 11 year old sisters died from apparent carbon monoxide leak in their family home. She is now. I only bring this up because this kind of stems into her life later and it makes you think
00:21:05
Speaker
What really happened? In 1979, Winter's first two children, three-year-old Colleen and 20-month-old John, died in a family fire in the family's Hyde Lake cabin in Teresa, New York.
00:21:20
Speaker
Investigators blamed an electrical defect when her children's bodies were exhumed. Well, I'm going to skip that for now because it comes in later in the story. The day before the fire started at the winter's cabin, another fire started at the winter's friend's house in Herman, New York, while her friend's three children were still inside. And again, they reinvestigated this in 2007. We'll bring that up in a little bit.
00:21:45
Speaker
Winters was near at least 17 fires since 1979.
00:21:53
Speaker
nine determined as arson. She pleaded guilty to these criminal mischief in relation to two in 1981. So basically I want to go back a little bit because Shirley Winters, she played this off like it was all an accident for years and years and years. All these fires were just an accident. Yeah. And all the investigators thought so too.
00:22:17
Speaker
With the investigators thought so, too, like there's like there's all these fires around her and she then she's just like, oops, sorry. Oh, my God, whatever. And then later on, basically after all these fires and then in 2006, a boy named Ryan Rivers was found to be drowned at his grandparents home while Winters visited.
00:22:43
Speaker
She was indicted and finally found out. And she was basically, for 10 murders, she was somehow related to all of these things.
00:22:58
Speaker
And she never was found out until 2000. It was really a lot later. And then in 2007, they exhumed the bodies of her children and found that they didn't die from the fire, but they died from blunt force trauma. And that was from 1979. Correct. Oh, my God.
00:23:19
Speaker
And so she went to prison. She got eligibility for parole after 17 years. The reason I bring this up is because guests who will be released just in time for Mother's Day, but none other than Shirley Winters. So she's released like like today. She's out. She'll be she's released from prison into psychological hold, essentially. But she's out.
00:23:47
Speaker
and I don't understand. And the article that I read, it kind of read that she like, the best way I could put it, and I don't mean to laugh about this, but it's ridiculous, is that she like had like almost like paid time off. Like she had good, like good standing in the prison. So they let her out early. Good behavior kind of thing. Yeah.
00:24:09
Speaker
And so, yeah, she will be able to, and I read an article that her one living daughter, Joy, is very nervous about her being released from prison. Yeah, I would say Joy is not bringing her flowers today. You know what I mean? Like, my God.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I honestly had never heard this story. And so if you want more about this, there's a pretty good Wikipedia article. But now that she's being released from prison, there are a lot of really good articles out there about what happened. But yeah, she essentially was like a serial arsonist and killed her own children. And now she's being released from jail. So is happy Mother's Day.
00:24:50
Speaker
That's really, really fucked up. Well, what's her name? Shelly Winters or Shirley Winters? Well, Shelly Winters is a very famous celebrity. That's why I noticed the name. Shirley Winters, I hope you have a bad Mother's Day because you are not a good
00:25:07
Speaker
Mother, Shirley Winters. Andrew, speaking of bad mothers, you've heard of Munchausen syndrome by proxy. I mean, who has been able to escape this term after the five years? It's so good. Well, it's not good. It's so salacious.
00:25:26
Speaker
So, look, if you don't know what Munchausen syndrome by proxy is, it's a long name, it is a rare and terrifying disorder where parents fake their children's illnesses. One easy example for horror fans would be in, what do you call it, Sixth Sense, with what's his from M. Night Shyamalan Medina, right? So, remember, like, the little girl that they go to visit and, like, she's being... That's Misha Barton.
00:25:54
Speaker
Oh, Misha Barton, right, right. That mother was keeping her daughter sick, and that was an example of Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Wasn't it, like, Pinesol in her soup or something? Yeah. Remember? And she's in the bed. She's like, I'm feeling much better now. So this is an article from Rolling Stone from 2016.
00:26:13
Speaker
And it's called Beyond Gypsy Blanchard, when mothers harm their kids for attention. So I'm going to read through this and give you, there's five other examples here that I'll kind of run through quickly to give you an idea of some other fucking weirdos out there that
00:26:29
Speaker
that were trying to kill their children. Anyways, before her murder, Dee Dee Blanchard reveled in the world's pity. By 2015, the 48-year-old mother from Missouri had managed to convince just about every make-a-wish-size charity that her wheelchair-ridden daughter, Gypsy Rose, was dying of natural causes.
00:26:54
Speaker
This month, and this was of course in 2016, Buzzfeed published a detailed report of the 2015 murder introducing readers to one of psychology's most controversial conditions, Munchausen syndrome by proxy, an extremely divisive syndrome that many consider to be one of the most dangerous forms of child abuse. Throughout her life, Blanchard fed Gypsy seizure medication.
00:27:19
Speaker
shaved her tiny head, and confined the growing child to a wheelchair for years, all so that Gypsy would appear ill. Petite and toothless, Gypsy Rose was her mother's cash cow,
00:27:34
Speaker
So when the small, sickly girl emerged from her wheelchair to take knife-wielding selfies shortly before posting, the bitch is dead, in quotes, on Facebook, her actions begged the question, was the killing of Dee Dee Blanchard, her mother, an act of self-defense from years of sadistic abuse or cold premeditated murder?
00:27:59
Speaker
Children raised by mothers with munchausens by proxy lived through unfathomable abuse and manipulation. In 2003, Arizona mother Blanca Montano was caught on tape contaminating her infant daughter's IV with fecal matter. Infant?
00:28:16
Speaker
infant daughter. In 2009, former chemist Hope Ibarra drained her daughter's blood with a syringe and faked tests for cystic fibrosis. Just two years ago, so this would be in in 2018 or in 2014, Lacey Spears was convicted of murder in the second degree after slowly poisoning her five-year-old son with lethal amounts of salt.
00:28:44
Speaker
People with Munchausen syndrome typically feign their own illnesses. Munchausen's by proxy, however, is when the caregiver, predominantly adult females with a history of abuse, intentionally sickens their patient to maintain sympathy and attention. Gypsy Rose narrowly escaped her mother's torture by enlisting her boyfriend, Nick Gudgeon, to stab her to death. But other victims are not so lucky.
00:29:11
Speaker
Here, five other fascinating court cases that have linked Muchausen's by proxy to intense sickness and even homicide. So the first one here is Lacey Spears. Lacey Spears was a mommy blogger and she was convicted for the murder of her beloved five-year-old son Garnett.
00:29:29
Speaker
thousands of Spears social media followers were absolutely shocked at her conviction. For years prior, the young Kentucky mother had taken to the internet for support by documenting Garnett's various health struggles. Lacey exhaustively blogged his medical journey, all the while hiding the one thing that was keeping him sick.
00:29:49
Speaker
unbeknownst to Lacey's faithful supporters, she had been secretly poisoning the child with life-threatening doses of salt through a feeding tube. What a fucking hairdo. Blanca Montano. In 2011, 23-year-old Blanca Montano of Tucson, Arizona was sentenced to 13 years in prison after allegedly infecting her hospitalized infant daughter with foreign bacterias, including fecal matter.
00:30:17
Speaker
Months before her arrest, her two young children tested positive for E. coli, a dangerous bacteria found in human waste. While their eldest son had a normal recovery, Montano, seven-month-old, seven-month-old,
00:30:33
Speaker
daughter continued to fall suspiciously ill, contracting infection after infection. Over the girl's month-long hospital stay, doctors treated her for nine rare and unusual infections that placed her in intensive care. Determined to keep up the ruse, Montano demanded they administer a complete
00:30:54
Speaker
completely unnecessary bone marrow biopsy. Can you believe that? How painful for a child? And speaking of that, 13 years, that means 2024, Blanca Montano should be out of prison as well. Hope Ibarra, former chemist and mother of three, she had a flare for the dramatic. She documented her very public battle with cancer and detailed online updates that culminated in posts about picking out colors for her casket.
00:31:23
Speaker
Her bravery after three bouts of cancer made Ibarra the soft-spoken darling of local Texas news. The diagnosis was most devastating to her daughters, however, who were made to believe that they were about to lose their mother. The youngest daughter, born prematurely, had her own host of medical issues. But when Ibarra's lies began to unravel, first about her own health and then that of her children,
00:31:49
Speaker
Suspicions arose that pulled out an endless threat of medical fraud and feign diagnosis. Upon further investigation, Holz continued to appear in her daughter's medical history, including 30 to 40 unneeded hospital procedures. Ibarra eventually admitted that she wanted people to pay attention, a classic symptom of a person with munchausens by proxy.
00:32:12
Speaker
Ibarra has been incarcerated at the Gatesville, Texas prison for many years, and she was eligible for parole in 2019.
00:32:21
Speaker
Mary Beth Tinney, she had nine, oh my God, she had nine deceased children. That's up to here as children, as one of nine. And goes down as one of the most puzzling and fatal cases of munchausens by proxy in the history of the disorder. Between the years of 1967 and 1985, Tinney, a wife and mother in upstate New York, gave birth to,
00:32:50
Speaker
and buried every single one of her young children, often within months. The eldest, Barbara Ann, was born in 67. By 1972, both she and her two siblings had passed away, starting with eight-day-old Jennifer, who was the only tinning child believed to have died of natural causes. The rest fell like dominoes, not a single one living past the age of four.
00:33:16
Speaker
While Tinning repeatedly sought the attention of ER doctors, no one seemed to find her actions suspicious. They simply looked for symptoms, found none, and sent the woman and her child home. But Tinning brought them back one by one, claiming they mysteriously died at home from seizures, going blue, and cardiac arrest. By the fifth death, they were at least calling it Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
00:33:41
Speaker
Rumors began to circulate in the town of Schenectady, New York that the Tinning family suffered from a death gene. She was allegedly asked why bring more babies into the world if they're destined to die so shortly after, to which Tinning calmly responded, that's what women are supposed to do.
00:33:59
Speaker
After 14 years of deaths, Tinning was finally arrested for the murders. The only murder the police could prove, however, was the smothering death of the youngest child. Tinning was arrested, charged with second-degree murder, convicted, and sentenced to 20 years to life. She ultimately confessed to also having smothered her other two children, though it is widely believed that she killed eight total. Tinning, who is now in her 70s and likely in prison for the rest of her life,
00:34:27
Speaker
says she has and would like to volunteer to care for sick inmates. All five of Tinning's parole attempts were denied. And then a final one here. I just want to say like, not everyone needs to be a mother. Yeah.
00:34:45
Speaker
Or paroled, for that matter, right? Lisa Hayden Johnson, the final one here. She had grown accustomed to the luxury of other people's sympathy after her son was born dangerously premature. Once he began to heal, the fame-hungry British mother appeared on daytime TV to inform viewers that her son was now suffering from a life-threatening food allergy that left him unable to eat.
00:35:09
Speaker
What a brave little boy, thought countless viewers. He'd spent his life hooked up to feeding tubes he'd never needed, plopped down into a wheelchair he learned to rely on, and even received the Children of Courage Award from British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his wife. After six years, doctors became suspicious of the boy's lack of symptoms, demanded further testing. In an effort to delay this from happening, Johnson falsely claimed she'd been sexually assaulted.
00:35:36
Speaker
The hospital, however, discovered that Johnson had been spiking her son's urine with glucose and the Brixham native was publicly disgraced. Johnson was arrested in October 2007 on the charge of child cruelty and perverting the system of justice. Despite public outrage, Johnson was given the lenient sentence of just over three years in prison.
00:35:59
Speaker
So ladies and gentlemen, they's and them's you've just heard of at least one, six, seven really awful mothers and two good ones. Ours. Yeah. So I leave you with that for Mother's Day. How about those stories, huh? Jesus.
00:36:18
Speaker
Well, I mean, what I'm seeing when I'm what I'm seeing just as a correlation from like the most of the stories that you're sharing is that some sort of glamour or fame was was like harnessed by.
00:36:35
Speaker
public sympathy, I guess. But they got some taste of that and couldn't get enough. And that's like, when we talk about social media and stuff, I think that's where we get a little bit
00:36:51
Speaker
We need to be careful because this is getting dangerous. People will do a lot to be famous. I don't even think famous in the way that we used to think famous was because fame is now different. It's not the cover of People magazine anymore.
00:37:12
Speaker
like the reels that you get served or the tiktoks yeah it's it's very weird and very it's a slippery slope of what people do to be noticed you know i completely agree and you know i think it's one of those things to be like the other thread in the stories is like nobody noticed until it was too late.
00:37:31
Speaker
You know, and so I think like the natural like the natural predilection for all of us or whatever is like to believe mothers. Right. So if the mother is saying this, we just got to believe them. And like, you know, look, largely that's fucking true. Thankfully, this disease or the syndrome is very rare. But like it just kind of shows you like even then you need to ask questions like you need to delve deeper into it. And it shows you how good it is that like
00:38:01
Speaker
you know, in hospitals, like they're really serious about abuse shit. Like if they see a bruise on it, they ask about it, or if they see this, they're like, what's what the fuck is going on kind of thing. And, you know, I don't know. It's it's it's crazy. You know, it's like you mentioned social media to like.
00:38:17
Speaker
social media and parent and parenthood is I'm not a parent and you're not a parent we I think I'll speak for you on this I'm sure that you would agree like okay we get that we're not parents but like social media for parenthood is wild out of control it's so wild like there are there are people like for example like my my wonderful brother and my my wonderful sister-in-law who like
00:38:41
Speaker
they use social media just like just to post cool shit about their kids and like you know it's it's sunny's baseball game or it's yeah they have the they have the old school they have the old school mentality of social media and how to and how to use it yes they have never been on social media going oh my god being a parent sucks it's awful blah blah blah and
00:39:01
Speaker
I gotta tell you, when I see that shit, I'm like, yo, what if your kid sees that one day? Do you know what I mean? Like you don't want that shit on there. Some video of you in a car crying over your McDonald's shake because your kids going wild. Y'all kids go wild. That's what they do. Like if you want to have them.
00:39:20
Speaker
You got to deal with that, man. That's just part of the game. I don't know what else to say. And that's like not to bring this totally political, but that's why I think, you know, pro you know, pro choices is very important because if you don't want kids, that's your right to not want kids. Yeah, you don't have to have children if you don't want them like that. That's not it. It's OK. Listen, I'm going to tell you something right now. We have enough people.
00:39:47
Speaker
It's okay. It's true. I need parents in the world who want to be parents. Exactly. And who want to have children and who know that they're going to do a good job. And look, it's hard. There are challenges. No one's perfect. I get that. But especially in today's world, we need mothers like our mothers who sacrificed and did what they needed to do for their kids to raise good human beings in this world.
Community Engagement and Media Discussions
00:40:14
Speaker
Luckily, it's not just our moms. I know so many great moms. I'm thinking of my sisters who are all amazing mothers. I'm thinking of some of my beautiful friends who have raised amazing human beings that are adults now, which freaks me out. I'm thinking of people that I've gone to church with who have just raised these lovely human beings who are just doing good in the world.
00:40:38
Speaker
and countless other people, or I'm thinking of teachers who were mothers to me, or I'm thinking of friends' moms who were mothers to me. The work of a mother is incredible, and I adore mothers. It reminds me of that line from The Crow, remember? Mother is the word for God on the lips of children. That's it, dude. That's it. Then I think of the really shitty ones.
00:41:07
Speaker
Welcome to a horror podcast. You know, no. And I think that that's like, man, there are just so many bad ones to God. Yeah, dude. What are just teaching children to hate from such a young age? And I hate it so much. Marjorie Taylor Green, our stepmother. Yeah, our stepmother. I just think like.
00:41:30
Speaker
It's really important to remember the legacy that you leave behind with your children. And if you are only there to ensnare hate and hatred for people that you probably don't even know,
00:41:46
Speaker
What's the point of that? What's the point in doing that when you could share love and happiness and community and all the good stuff? Stop focusing on the hate. We got to stop it. I agree with you. Andrew, let's end it here. I want to do one little plug really quick before we go.
00:42:09
Speaker
We have a new feature in our Patreon and we're really just testing it out right now, but it's kind of cool. So I wanted to kind of talk about it a little bit. So it's kind of like what you think of as like a Discord for Patreon.
00:42:27
Speaker
And basically what it is is we have a general chat in there and then we have a chat for each individual episode. So anything you want to talk about that happened in the episode or if you want to weigh in on the topic, you can kind of go in there and chat directly with other fans of the show and with us.
00:42:44
Speaker
Um, and so I just think it's really cool. You know, I want to, I want to shout out a couple of people like Brett and Louisa. I'm going to forget a lot of people, but there's, uh, there's a lot of people in there just chatting with us and chatting with each other. And I think that's really cool.
00:43:00
Speaker
I think it's a really cool thing that patreon added and you can join patreon for free now i don't know if people know that you don't have to pay when you can we welcome the money don't you can join for free but i think that that.
00:43:19
Speaker
Those kind of features, you know, along with social media, but that's a whole nother realm of like craziness, those kind of features and like you chatting with us really does make us feel like, oh, we're doing something right. And we're like, totally. I mean, like, yeah. And like, look, I'm in there now because Andrew told me about it, but then I went on holiday, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
00:43:41
Speaker
So I got in on it this weekend and it's great. I'm loving chatting with people on there and like just like it's just like hanging out. And I think Patreon was smart to do it because they realize that like a lot of podcasts start a discord so that you can do chat there.
00:43:57
Speaker
And I remember one of our biggest fans, Kyle, had mentioned that to me and to you. Oh, should we start a Discord chat? And I think for both of us, we were like, that sounds like a lot right now. It's a whole other platform to dig into.
00:44:13
Speaker
And so what I would imagine is that Patreon is going to really develop this feature further and make it even more social across shows, if that makes sense, or across Patreons. So I think it will develop further. But yeah, highly encourage all of you to jump in there because I'm really enjoying it. It's a great feature and I would love to chat with more of you. Awesome.
00:44:37
Speaker
So that will do it for our horror in real life. Happy Mother's Day to all of you. Happy Mother's Day. Yes, we will take a quick break and be right back with what you've been watching, bitch. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat. And now it's time for everyone's favorite segment, what you've been watching, bitch.
00:45:05
Speaker
what you've been watching, you smothering, mothering child person. Wow. Wow. Folks, this is the segment of the show. If it's your first time with us, where we talk about what we've been watching, sometimes reading, sometimes listening, sometimes other things, but it could be anything could be horror, could be not horror. Who knows? Each of us always have four selections for this segment, and Andrew will give us his first right now.
00:45:31
Speaker
So yeah, I finally went back and watched the stand. Wow. The one that came out in the pandemic. So that's why I remember that one. It came out if you don't remember this, I don't blame you because probably nobody wanted to watch this when it came out because guess what? It's about a sickness that takes up 98% of the population. And it came out in December of 2020. So fucked up. Yeah.
00:45:59
Speaker
Um, but listen, I watched it. Um, most of it I enjoyed. It starts off a little. Was that like long ago? Mortensen? Who was James Marsden? James Marsden. But then who was the main bad guy? Alexander Skarsgard. That's who it was. Okay.
00:46:18
Speaker
You know, and it's got a lot. This this cast has not aged well. It's Amber Heard is one of them. Oh, wow. Ezra Miller is one of the mains. Wow. Whoopi Goldberg is the is the main good, the main good person with it, which to cast whoopi Goldberg is like a 90 year old woman is kind of insulting. But yeah, right. Yeah, she needed the work. She needed the work.
00:46:43
Speaker
Listen, so this is my take on this. It's mostly OK. But what I what I noticed about it, watching it this time and with like fresh eyes and outside of the pandemic and none of that is like this feels like more of a remake of the TV series than an interpretation of the book, if that makes any sense. Like if you remember a lot of people in the mid 90s, we had the McGarrus TV series.
00:47:12
Speaker
I think it was a two night event, if I remember correctly. I think it was even more than that. Well, yeah, sure. But it just felt like they were trying to mimic that rather than make their own stand. So it felt a little wonky, like a lot of the dialogue is really wonky and it feels very like 90s in a way. So like.
00:47:37
Speaker
I don't know. Did you ever watch any of this? I did. Yeah. No, I so I vividly remember the original stand. Oh, yes. Because I was obsessed with it. And, you know, it's cheesy as hell. It's like it's like every other Stephen King mini series of that era. Like, yeah, of course. It's just totally cheesy.
00:47:56
Speaker
And this was the one that I was really hoping was going to be a really good remake. And the cast was awesome. James Marsden, for God's sake, how much have I masturbated to this person? I mean, it's incredible. But it did not work for me. And it's mostly because of what you just said. I completely agree with you.
00:48:20
Speaker
they were just trying to remake the TV series and that was the wrong choice to make. I don't know what else to say. It didn't work. And it's a shame because it was an opportunity to do it right and they just completely, completely foiled it.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was mostly botched. I mean, I still I still had fun watching it because it's a stand and it's like this. It's almost nostalgic in a way. Yeah. But overall is like a Watch Again series. I'm probably going to go back to the 90s one. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I would, too.
00:48:51
Speaker
Um, my first one, cause Maddie's doing a lot of rewatches these days. Everybody remember, um, I am rewatching the wire right now. And if you have not watched the wire, the wire is the story of police and gangsters in Baltimore, Maryland. Ah, Baltimore, a big topic of our, of our episode today. Right. I didn't even think about that. It is. Um, so yeah, it's in Baltimore, Maryland. Uh, it takes place in the early 2000s and, um, it's just an incredible.
00:49:21
Speaker
fucking show, man, I don't know if you've not watched The Wire before. It's five seasons. Highly, highly recommended. It's some of the best TV you will ever watch in your life. And it really does. It's it's what do you call it? A David Simon show. He he did a great job creating a series that was about as as true to real life as it could possibly be when it comes to gangs selling drugs and police battling against them.
00:49:49
Speaker
basically, and all the rest of the crooked shit that happens in cities like Baltimore, all over the country, all over the world, really. Incredible actors, Michael K. Williams, and got just a host of other people, Idris Elba, a bunch of people. And just so well done. It's a really incredible show. I'm just finishing season three on this rewatch.
00:50:13
Speaker
How many seasons does it total five? I believe it's five. I think it's five. Um, and it's fucking good. You know, like, look, it's, it's, it's a lot of TV. It's a lot of content. It's a lot of hours. Um, but if you've never watched it before and you're looking for something to, to really like dive deep into and binge highly, highly recommend it. You can watch it on HBO. I watch it on now over here in Europe. Um, but give it a watch the wire.
00:50:37
Speaker
Cool. My next one is one that you brought up. I can't remember if it was last episode of the episode before. Um, but it was, oh yeah, it was two. Yeah. Uh, last night with the devil finally got to watch this film. Uh, overall I, I had a really good time with this. Um, it's, it's, it reminds me of things like W N U F. Yeah. Um, ghost watch, of course. Totally.
00:51:03
Speaker
Um, and so I always have fun with those like pieces of the same TV. And you know what? Like I know that you saw it in the theater. Have you watched it on shutter yet? Not yet. I haven't had a chance to. Okay. I think it's honestly like even people are listening. If you haven't watched it just like on your TV.
00:51:23
Speaker
You should give that a watch because like it offers like a different viewing experience because it's about a late night TV show in the 70s. Like, and that's our last broadcast or whatever, but like it gives you like that kind of intimacy of people that grew up watching David Letterman, Jay Leno for far, as far as back as Johnny Carson, like what they speak to in the, in the, in the movie, but like.
00:51:49
Speaker
I had fun with it. I have I have some slight criticisms. I think the fourth wall breaking black and white could have maybe not been in the movie and done it a different way for that because it kind of takes you out of like the context of the movie. And I understand everyone's criticism of them using AI for their interstitials. I get it. I think I also think that this movie was made like five years ago. So, oh, I didn't realize that.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yeah, because it's been on the festival circuit for like two years. That really just kind of went over my head. Go figure. I get everyone's criticism of using AI for the artwork, but you guys, they didn't know what they were doing. These people, they have to beg for money to make these movies. Also, get over it. What have you done lately?
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, seriously. But yeah, overall, I really do mean that it's like, you know, we have some friends who are filmmakers, the folks who may drop dead, gorgeous, for example, and death, gorgeous or death, drop, gorgeous part of me. Well, listen, we love drop dead, gorgeous, too. And our friend Amy Taylor, who's making movies out there, you know, like any of the folks that have that have shared some of like the feedback that they get from, you know, quote unquote fans or viewers or whatever. Sometimes it's just like
00:53:10
Speaker
Give them a fucking break, dude. It's like, come on. Come on. Jesus. What are you making besides honestly? Yeah. Like, come on. And like, you know, it's OK to criticize films. There's nothing wrong with that. But like, give them a break, dude. Come on. Yeah. But yeah, I had a good time with this. Do I think it's like the best thing ever? No. But is it is it is it in the upper echelon of shutter originals? Yes. Yes. That is that is for fucking sure.
00:53:37
Speaker
My next one is another rewatch, but not a series. It's a it's a movie. The talented Mr. Ripley. I bring this up because I talked about Ripley recently, the new net, the new Netflix series. Have you had a chance to watch that yet?
00:53:52
Speaker
I watched the first episode and I was not entranced, but I'm going to go back. I'm going to go back and give it more. I hope that you stick with it because, and like, do me a favor and just like go, go past it a little bit because I think you genuinely will. It picks up a lot. I will. I think it's the serialized way that they're that.
00:54:11
Speaker
I'm used to consuming this story in the movie, which you're going to talk about. This is like a slower pace than that. So I think once Ripley picks up, motherfucker picks up. But, you know, I was so I was just on holiday in Italy, which was really wonderful. I've been in Venice for a couple of days, which I've been to before. And then I was in Florence for about a week, which I have not been to before. And let me tell you what, Florence fucking rocks.
00:54:37
Speaker
food was so good. I had a panini or panino actually that literally literally made me cry not joking. It was it was the best thing I've ever eaten in my life and like also that panini was five euro and the glass of wine the house wine that came with it was a euro motherfucker.
00:54:58
Speaker
Oh my God, I love Italy so much. Anyways, went to Italy and I had just watched the Ripley TV show on Netflix. I also was reading again the Patricia Highsmith novel, which was great to read. And while I was in Venice, I had this one night where I was just, I was really, really tired at my Airbnb. And I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna watch a movie. Cause that just sounds like what I want to do right now. So I watched Dale to Mr. Ripley, the Anthony Mingella version with Matt Damon and Jude Law.
00:55:27
Speaker
And so it was great to watch because my brain is really ripply right now, right? So I've watched the show, reading the book and looking at the sort of like the classic film. And so you're trying to rob people of their money. Yeah. And also trying to, you know, to entrance a very handsome man and then kill him in a canoe.
00:55:50
Speaker
Anyways, it was great to see it again because number one. It's a beautiful movie like Anthony Mingala directed and created a beautiful version of Ripley Everyone in that movie is so fuckable. Oh my god Even like even like even like Dickie's dad. I can't think of his name right now even he's handsome like everyone is hot in this and
00:56:12
Speaker
It reminded me of how different all these versions are like all of them are so wildly different. I mean, the one what's funny about about the movie.
00:56:23
Speaker
as opposed to the series on Netflix, and this isn't giving away too much, is it's less about, well, no, I mean, it is about it. It's all the different characters. So like Ripley himself in Anthony Mingela's version sort of is haphazardly a criminal. He sort of falls into it. And like he does fake things before, but he's not like, he doesn't set out necessarily to like do this.
00:56:53
Speaker
The intent is different. Yeah, that's the vision that that Anthony Mingela creates in his film in Ripley. It's entirely different. Like Ripley is a criminal. He knows he doesn't know exactly what he's going to do, but he has some ideas. And then in Patricia Highsmith's novel, he is a criminal, but he also goes into the entire Italian engagement, really sort of like thinking, you know what, this might be a chance for me to get things right in my life.
00:57:21
Speaker
I might be able to leave that life behind and do things the right way now. And so, you have three different Ripley's. You have the book Ripley, you have the Netflix Ripley, and you have the Anthony Mingella Ripley. And it's just entrancing to watch. I think it's really cool to see a character sort of divvied out in these different ways, right? So, I don't know, it was a lot of fun to watch again, and it was also cringy, some of these parts. Oh my god, like, there were parts where I literally
00:57:49
Speaker
had to look away. Cause I was like, Oh my God, Tom Ripley, you are such a cringe bot. Like you are, you are ridiculous, man. Like get your life together. Also like with Ripley too, like did Ripley like in Anthony Mingella's Ripley did Tom Ripley like never realized how hot he was. Do you know what I mean? Seriously. He's so, Oh my God. And like, I know it was like the fifties and like being gay wasn't the coolest yet, but I was like, Oh my God. If I
00:58:14
Speaker
I was him in the 50s. I would be fucking. Oh, my God. I would be getting fucked because, you know, you know, he's a bottom. I would be getting fucked every day, all day long, because I would be that fucking cute. Are you fucking kidding me? Thankfully, I'm not a bottom. I'm a top. But you know what I'm trying to say here. So, God, the things I say on the show. Do you know what? I will never be president. It's never going to happen. Folks, don't don't vote for me.
00:58:37
Speaker
But yeah, look, it was fun to watch again. If you have not watched it in a while, you have a great opportunity now to sort of have a look at these different Ripley's and just have some fun with it. So there it is, the talented Mr. Ripler.
00:58:51
Speaker
All right, my next one is currently on Netflix. It is called Anyone But You. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this movie. It came out right around January, I believe. I think I heard about it, but I didn't watch it. Pretty popular rom-com that came out because it had Sydney Sweetie and Glenn Powell who are kind of like the like it people right now. Sure. And it's the basic premise is
00:59:19
Speaker
Well, I'll just tell you it's literally an interpretation of much to do about nothing. Oh, OK. And like set like a modern time. It's about how much to do. It's about these two people that get together. And because of circumstance, they think one things that they hate the other one. And so they go their separate ways and then they come back together for a sibling's wedding in Australia. And then, you know, things happen. I'm not going to give away the plot. But, you know,
00:59:46
Speaker
It's been a while since we've gotten like a little rom-com like this, like kind of just like a lighthearted, almost like slightly raunchy rom-com because there is like, there's male nudity in this. And you see butts and boobs and whatnot. It's a little bit of a raunchy take on much ado, but like I had so much fun just like taking in just like a lighthearted movie for a change.
01:00:15
Speaker
Well and bots yeah, but you know what I mean like I do yeah There's so many dark movies that we watch especially for the show like every once in a while We just get to watch like a light-hearted comedy That's kind of like I don't know there's something about this movie that like hearkens back to like
01:00:33
Speaker
I don't know, like can't hardly wait or like, you know, like that kind of thing. So if you like those kind of movies, I think you'll really like this movie. It's currently on Netflix. So if you have a subscription subscription, you can go ahead and watch it there. But I had fun with it. I think that these two watching, watching attractive people be loving together is just great.
01:00:54
Speaker
Speaking of Netflix, Andrew, my next one is a baby reindeer. I have not watched it yet. I've only heard so many things about it. Baby reindeer. Uh, I feel like it's like all the people we're talking about for a minute. Um, baby reindeer is the story of this comedian who, uh, was stocked and was, and look, it's a little bit of a spoiler, but I'm just going to, I mean, it's not that big of a deal. Trust me, you're going to learn this pretty quickly.
01:01:22
Speaker
Or are you probably already I don't know how you wouldn't know it to be honest with you story of a comedian who and like actor kind of guy who was stalked by a woman and then was also sexually abused by like this guy who was who was helping him.
01:01:40
Speaker
Um, and it's a wild story. Uh, it's weird. And, you know, I don't really know how I feel about it. I'll be honest, like there's a lot of controversy about it. Like, um, like suppose, because it's also based on a true story. And so like the woman who like was the stalker or, you know, like people think that she's a stalker. She's gotten a lot of abuse in real life and, you know, like,
01:02:08
Speaker
I don't know about that. The guy who did the sexual abuse, apparently no one's talking about him. And somewhere in the middle of it, I don't know, the guy who wrote it, you'll remember that I talked about a show about metal detecting a while back, right? That guy was on that show too. And that guy is the author and the actor and the creator of Baby Reindeer, which I did not know at all.
01:02:33
Speaker
And so supposedly, this is autobiographical. It's a wild story. It's crazy. There's just parts of it where I was kind of like, this feels really self-indulgent, if I'm being honest. It feels really self-indulgent. And yeah, the guy went through a lot of shit. But also, the guy did some stupid shit too. I think that's a part of it where I'm like, let's be real, dude.
01:02:58
Speaker
You did some stupid shit here, too. And I don't think that he really delves into that as much as opposed to like to sort of really digging into I'm the victim here and now I'm going to create a Netflix series about it kind of thing. Yeah. And I and I and I that didn't sit well with me. It's that it's that really bad with me, actually. I've heard a lot of comparisons to his character to Fleabag, which is, you know, kind of like
01:03:24
Speaker
They're not really that great of a person, but they still try to be better. I don't know. I do kind of get that. At least with Fleabag, it's entertaining. And with this one, it's just sort of like, I don't know, it's like eight hours of just like, are we fucking done yet with this? I don't know.
01:03:41
Speaker
There are parts of it that I like, there are parts of it that I definitely did not like, and there is sort of a general idea of it that I'm like, I don't know, I guess I'm half and half on. I definitely, I was not gaga over it like most other people were, so I don't know, it's that weird with me. I'm half and half on it, to be honest.
01:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to watch this or not. I might just let it go into obscurity. You know, honestly, I wouldn't blame you. And if I'm being like, Andrew, I've watched so many things with you over the years, you wouldn't be missing much. Yeah. All right. The next one I have in the final one I have is X-Men 97. Have you watched any of this yet? No, is this new? Oh, you don't know about you don't have anything about this at all. Oh, I'm about to blow your little child's mind.
01:04:27
Speaker
So it's on Disney Plus and it is a it is a direct sequel to your childhood cartoon, The X-Men. What?
01:04:39
Speaker
And it is literally the same artist style, most of the same voices doing X-Men, like a continuation of X-Men, the cartoon. And it's animated still? It's animated the exact same way. You know, this is the shit I've been waiting for. Like, this is it. Because like, that's the X-Men that I love. Is that right there? I can't believe you've escaped this because, Maddie, you when that opening music comes on and it goes, do, do, do, do.
01:05:08
Speaker
Do, do, do, do, do, do. Oh, my God. Your little child brain goes. So is it like is it like a bunch of episodes right now? Like, yeah, there's I think we just watched the eighth episode. And is it like there's only one season on there or like as of now, but I'm guaranteeing it's getting renewed because it's all these it's all these little nerds can talk about.
01:05:31
Speaker
That is that's so I'm really glad to hear this because you know like for me the movies never really did it for me They did it for everybody else. This is me. I was on into it, but that this is like when the cartoon ended in 96 it started back up in 97 just like it never stopped
01:05:48
Speaker
Oh, God is real. God is real. Thank you, Jesus. Go to your Disney plus slash Hulu account and turn on X-Men 97 and greet yourself with some Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm Jubilee.
01:06:03
Speaker
all of them. Andrew, I will be doing a little thing called eating an edible tonight and watching that on Disney. You're going to love it. This is great. Um, Andrew, my final one is, uh, what is it here? Uh, the Jinx part two. Did you watch the Jinx part one on HBO? I didn't, I didn't. Um, let me just ask you this then.
01:06:22
Speaker
Do you know how it ends? I do, unfortunately. That's why I never watched it. So listen, I would say like, okay, you should still watch the entirety of the first series because it's really, really good. It's really, really good. If out there you have not watched the jinx part one and you don't know how it ends,
01:06:43
Speaker
I'm gonna tell you right now, do not Google, do not watch part two yet. Don't do anything. Just go watch part one as fast as you can because the end of it, I watched it like real time. And so I know the ending when it happened. And like everybody else who watched it, your jaw just fucking drops because you cannot believe, you cannot fucking believe what just happened. And like one of the most incredible moments on television, to be honest, like it's fucking fucked up.
01:07:12
Speaker
Um, so anyways, part two just came out. Um, and it's being released, you know, uh, weekly by episodes. It's on HBO in America. It's on now over here or, or sky TV. Um, and it's good, you know, it's, it's not quite as good as the first one because like the first one, like you, you're learning about all of it and you know, there's just all these surprises keep happening, but it's still pretty good. It's following the trial of Robert Durst. Um, so, you know, it's stuff that we haven't seen yet. So can I ask a question? Yes, ma'am.
01:07:42
Speaker
Is this a Tiger King part two or is it better than that? Oh, I see what you're saying. You know, I think it's really different if I'm being honest. OK, OK. It's not like we didn't need it. Yeah, no, it's we we definitely need this because we need to know where this will all end up for sure. And like and like I don't know what's going to happen at the end of this one, which I am like genuinely excited to find out like what's going to happen at the end of this series.
01:08:10
Speaker
I thought Tiger King Part two was so serious. Part two did not work out. It just didn't work. God, what a fucking weirdo Tiger King Jesus. Remember that shit. Fuck. Yes. But yeah, so anyways, I'll keep it short. The jinx part two. It's very good. I think I've watched three episodes of it now. There will probably be six or seven, I imagine. So it's good. That's all I have to say about it, really. If you have but if you haven't watched part one, do not watch part two. Do not do that. That would be very stupid.
01:08:38
Speaker
Cool, well that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us the wire.
01:08:42
Speaker
Baby Reindeer, the talented Mr. Ripley, and the Jinx part two. And Andrew brought us The Stand from 2020, right? 2020? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Late Night with the Devil, Anyone But You, and X-Men 97.
Deep Dive into 'Serial Mom' Film Discussion
01:09:00
Speaker
So folks, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode, the genius cinematic masterpiece from John Waters, Serial Mom.
01:09:12
Speaker
Life doesn't have to be ugly. Look at the birds out there. Listen to their call. Will we? Will we? This is the story of Beverly Sutton. Scramble legs, anybody? A devoted mother. I'm so happy I could chip. You know how I hate the brown word. A loving wife. You think the kids are awake? We could be very quiet. I'm ready. Honey, you're hot tonight. And a suspected murderer.
01:09:41
Speaker
Kids, are you doing your homework? How did America's number one mom turn into one of America's most wanted? Is she really guilty? Are you a serial killer? Chip, the only serial I know anything about is Rice Krispies. Is she the only one with a motive? Believe that damn letter, Parker. Give her.
01:10:02
Speaker
Happy face. Or is there someone else... I'm stood up. I'll kill that jerk. with an axe to grind. They'll never get a boyfriend. Meanwhile, this small Baltimore suburb... Please! keeps getting smaller and smaller. It's been a crazy day, hasn't it?
01:10:29
Speaker
Savoy Pictures asks the burning question. Is your wife mental? Is Beverly Sutvin just a sweet suburban housewife? I don't know what it is about today, but I feel great. Cookie? Or is she? Cereal Mom. Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom! Cereal Mom
01:10:53
Speaker
Kathleen Turner, Sam Waterston, and Ricky Lake. Serial Mom. Every woman wants to be wanted. Just not for Murder 1. Beverly, I've read all about this. Is it menopause? Do you know about Rice Krispies?
01:11:18
Speaker
then you might be a serial mom. Matty, talk to us all about serial mom. Oh, he's been thinking about that one all week, folks, I can guarantee ya. Serial mom, every mom wants to be wanted, but not for murder.
01:11:33
Speaker
A picture-perfect middle-class family is shocked when they find out that one of their neighbors is receiving obscene phone calls. The mom takes slights against her family very personally, and it turns out that she is indeed the one harassing the neighbor, as other slights befall her beloved family
01:11:53
Speaker
the body count begins to increase. Serial Mom was directed and written by John Waters. Produced and distributed by Polar Entertainment Corporation and Savoy Pictures. Mom was played by Kathleen Turner. Dad played by Sam Waterston. Misty by Ricky Lake. Chip by Matthew Lillard. Dottie Hinkle by Mink Stoll. Rosemary Ackerman by Mary Jo Catlett.
01:12:19
Speaker
Mr. Stubbins by John Badilla, Scotty by Justin Whalen, Bertie by Patricia Dunnek, Carl by Lonnie Horsey, Suzanne Summers, played by Suzanne Summers, and The Voice of Ted Bundy, played by John Waters. This film is rated R, it's 95 minutes long, from the USA, released April 13th of 1994, filmed in Baltimore, Maryland.
01:12:45
Speaker
budget of $13 million and brought in $8 million at the box office. Andrew, I don't think this was a first watch for you, was it? No, I own it. Tell me all about Serial Mom in that case. Well, one person that is left off of your cast list that I want to bring up. What did I do? Well, that I did not put together until I was literally doing research for this episode is juror number eight. Do you know who that is? Who was it?
01:13:12
Speaker
The woman wearing the white shoes is none other than Patty Hearst herself. Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is my fault for leaving that off. The the kidnapped, radicalized and then absolved. Patty Hearst herself plays juror number eight. Isn't that insane? That's not true anymore.
01:13:37
Speaker
Anyway, fashion has changed. No, it hasn't. Anyway, this could be just a series of us saying quotes from this episode. Yeah, basically. Oui, oui, oui, oui. Anyway.
01:13:55
Speaker
I'm a divorced woman. Please help me. I'm a divorced woman. Please help me. Which is one of the best lines literally ever written of all time. In fact, just, just to button really quick, the first fucking phone call between Dottie Hinkle and, um, and what's her fucking name? Uh, Betty, uh, Betty set up and whatever. Yeah, Dottie, Dottie. Um,
01:14:17
Speaker
Beverly Beverly Beverly Beverly Beverly is one of the best things ever filmed period. I crack my shit up every time I hear it or see it. It's so good.
01:14:29
Speaker
So yeah, Serial Mom. I've obviously seen this movie many times over my lifetime, but I remember Serial Mom being one of those movies that like your parents told you you weren't allowed to watch. Like it was like seen as like sleazy and like
01:14:47
Speaker
And is like in like the John Waters of it all, it's probably the least sleazy. Oh, my God. Totally. It's nothing compared to compared to fucking literally anything else. This is not pink flamingos. He's demented. Except for except for what do you call it? Except for hairspray. Maybe that's it. Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:05
Speaker
Um, but anyway, I, I remember being like, I remember thinking like you had to sneak watch serial mom. It was like, it was like watching, um, married with children. Like that's, you know, like, or like Beavis and butt head or like something like that. Like it fell into like that.
01:15:21
Speaker
part of our childhood, I feel like. What I appreciate about this movie is that it just fucking goes for it. You go into it thinking you're watching a nice, I don't know, 50s depiction of the 80s. It's going to be
01:15:39
Speaker
Flamingos and butterflies, you know what I mean? Like, it's easy watching. And then she just goes absolutely batshit bananas for kind of no reason except motherhood. Yeah. And just watching it this time and watching it critically for the show, I was just like, man, where do you get an idea like this? Like, where do you just think from the mind of John Waters? I know. And I'm sorry.
01:16:07
Speaker
The image of short haired Kathleen Turner in a polka dot dress and pearls sprinting down the street with a butcher knife will never get old completely. So I don't have much to say in terms of.
01:16:26
Speaker
criticism for the movie because I just enjoy it so much. Right. I think that there are a couple of parts that maybe don't work as well for me. But one thing that I always think feels really out of place is the Scotty masturbation scene. We can get to that. Yeah.
01:16:43
Speaker
But what do you think of Serial Mom? I think it's brilliant. Yeah, I didn't see this movie until college. And so I wouldn't have seen it until I was like 18, I think somewhere in there. And I and like once again, like it was it was by far.
01:16:59
Speaker
Cause I wasn't like, I was watching a lot of movies then, but I wasn't watching a lot of like fucked up movies. And so I wasn't super into John Waters then really, just because I didn't really get it. Like I just didn't get it for whatever reason. I loved horror stuff. I didn't get like, I didn't get the fucked up, weird, stupid shit yet.
01:17:16
Speaker
And for whatever reason, like, I think my friend had it and we watched it at her dorm room, at her and Kelly's dorm room. And we just laughed our fucking asses off. And like the fucking like once again, the fucking phone call between Beverly and Dottie was fucking hilarious. And we just I remember like we watched it and then we just quoted it for months over and over and over again. Or the one woman who who doesn't recycle what's her fucking name?
01:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, they're next door neighbor. Yeah, they're next door neighbor. And like my friend Rhee would constantly Rosemary. My friend Rhee would constantly say to me, for the good of the environment, someone just might.
01:17:57
Speaker
And it's like sticks in your head. And that's what John Waters is so good at is creating these ridiculous, fucked up, weird circumstances that are otherworldly almost in some ways, but with lines and with scenarios that stick in your brain forever because they're fun. They're funny. And this is a movie about a serial killer mom
01:18:21
Speaker
who kills other women basically and like a couple of guys but like mostly women and like is kind of a fucking bitch when you think about it but also is this anti-hero that you fucking love and he and he digs into that in the film too with like you know Matthew Lillard the son of of of Beverly um like you know trying to get like book deals and tv deals and movie deals and everything else out of it
01:18:46
Speaker
So it's a fun, rollicking romp through murder and serial killing and also motherhood at the same time. Look, she's watching after her daughter, making sure she don't eat too much chicken. Or gum. Watching after her kids because the other kids drive really badly. Or don't swear in the house. How could you ever do that? But also, I love how
01:19:13
Speaker
Beverly, as a serial killer, is triggered by just being offended at the stupidest shit. Yeah, the stupidest shit. Well, the whole reason she's calling Dottie and sending her threatening letters saying, I'll get you, I'll get you pussy face is because is because she took her parking spot. Exactly fabrics. Right. So.
01:19:35
Speaker
So that's just the thing is what John Waters does is he makes it relatable like the same shit that we that you're in the parking lot waiting for some waiting for a space and someone takes it and you think you're fucking kill that person or somebody wears dumb shoes and you're like, God, what a fucking idiot. You should be dead. Like dumb thoughts like that that you get all the time. He just said.
01:19:58
Speaker
What if we just put that into a movie? What if we acted on it? Yeah. And that's what it looks like. And that's what's so fun about it. Is it like it really relates to the things that you've thought before yourself?
01:20:10
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, well, another person I forgot to put on the cast list and it shows up. She's only a cameo in the movie. But I do love that part where Rosemary and Dottie are having midday beers and watching Joan Crawford. Yes. Not Joan Crawford. Joan Rivers. Joan Rivers.
01:20:28
Speaker
Oh, and then there's just this, this, this is one of those movies that if you saw it at a certain age, and I think that you were at the perfect age, just yeah. And I think that you kind of alluded to this is that you just quote it all the time, like,
01:20:44
Speaker
Like I can't I can't tell you how many times I turned to my one friend and it just said oh now You know how I hate the brown word Or I still just randomly go pussy willows daddy Yeah, and like no one else knows what why I'm saying that but like I sure fucking do
01:21:02
Speaker
Um, a couple of things that didn't age well about the movie is when she's in the video store and she goes, uh, and he, she's returning ghost dad and she forgot to rewind the tape and he, she goes, Oh, I just love those. Yes, totally.
01:21:20
Speaker
Or maybe even age is better because of that. Yeah, true. Maybe he knew something we didn't. Yeah, right. And the other part that I'm sorry, this grossed me out. And of course, in a John Waters film, there's always going to be something that he's trying to get you to be grossed out about, whether it's the guy having his, I think his liver pulled out from the back of it. But the part that really got me this time was when that same woman that returns the videotape, she's watching Annie and she's singing along and she goes,
01:21:50
Speaker
Mommy's feet. Get them all wet. Go ahead. Lick. Lick. Mommy's feet. Yeah. Get them all wet. And she's just fucking singing. And like it is so it's so fucking deranged. It's absolutely deranged that entire scene. She is just fucking going for it on singing. And the fact that the fact that she returns the knife to get the to get the rump or the roast. Yeah, he throws.
01:22:17
Speaker
She picks it up and she's like, ah, yeah, like this is perfect. And when you think about it, it is. It's the perfect weapon because, you know, she go and beat her with it and the dog going to eat it. That's perfect. It's true. Absolutely perfect. So basically this in this is what I think about this movie. And what I always forget is I was like, what is the inciting incident? Like, that's what I always like try to remember. And I never can remember because there's really not one. It's just kind of like
01:22:45
Speaker
you know, Kathleen Turner, it's the phone calls. Well, and she just wakes up one day and chooses violence. Yeah. Is this the cocksucker residence? And God, I forgot how many people were in this movie.
01:23:01
Speaker
Ricky Lake, Matthew Lillard, Mink Stoll, Suzanne Sommers, who we just lost a couple of years ago. Like, oh, I forgot she died. Oh, I forgot about that. Oh, it makes me really sad now. Matthew Lillard. Had hackers come out yet in 94?
01:23:21
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know. I can't remember. Like, I'm sort of thinking, like, where are we in the Matthew Lillard land? I'm looking on IMDB right now. We're before Scream for sure. Definitely before because Scream was 97. When was Scream? 96? Uh, yeah, 96, I think. 96. So that's 96. Hackers was before that, though. Was it the same year?
01:23:43
Speaker
Wait i'm scrolling right now i have to i have to find out i have to find out. Ninety four hackers is ninety five okay and then screen screen was ninety six so this is this is debut as well as well. Looks like gooleys go to college.
01:24:01
Speaker
But I think that Serial Mom was like his first major thing and then after that it was Vanishing Son 4, Ride For Your Life, Mad Love, Tarantella, Hackers, that really set him off. Ghoulies 3, Ghoulies go to college. Right? And then Scream of course was the thing that really got him going.
01:24:19
Speaker
Yeah, one other thing that I have in my notes that didn't quite age well is that these salacious magazine that she gets the one guy in court is chicks with dicks. I know. Oh, my God. But OK, in context of the era, it makes perfect sense, of course. Yeah.
01:24:38
Speaker
Um, I do. So I kind of I always associate this movie with the concert going backwards. So like, I think I've watched the maybe like the beginning of this movie up in concert, like many, many times. Yeah. And I've maybe watched the whole movie with the court scene a handful of times. Yeah. That's how we that's how we consume movies at some point in life. I don't know why. But
01:25:04
Speaker
And so like the the court stuff, a lot of it was still really fresh and new to me because I didn't remember a lot of it. Like I kind of forgot all about the Mr. Pickles thing and how she does the kind of like weird fatal attraction moment in that part where she separates her legs and close their legs and separates her legs and closes their legs until she. Oh, it's so good. So good.
01:25:31
Speaker
And I do love when when Suzanne Sommers is like, No, let's take the picture from this thing. And she's like, Suzanne Sommers, this is my bad side.
01:25:42
Speaker
There were a few little ephemera trivia things that I did not know about the movie. Two of them were that the copyright holders of the song Tomorrow from Annie, of course, as heard when Mrs. Jensen watches Annie in her living room. Opening credits never ends. They charged $60,000 for the rights to use the song because of the explicit content of John Waters past films.
01:26:07
Speaker
Then this this is the thing that is wild to me. So Kathleen Turner asked John Waters if she could bring her friend Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor to the set. What? Yes. I never heard this before. Waters expressed amazement and agreed. She agreed. O'Connor spent the entire day on the set and was photographed with the whole group at the end of the day shoot.
01:26:36
Speaker
So I just want to point out that this is a John Waters film where on set watching the filming was none other than a Supreme Court justice of the United States. Is that not fucking crazy? That's hilarious. Absolutely wild.
01:26:51
Speaker
Um, so, and so fun to see a young Sam Waterston to like, I love Sam Waterston. Like, how can you not love that man? Yeah. Um, just because what we've seen him in lately is, um, it was that Netflix series where he played a gay, but like he wasn't, he's an old man now. So like seeing him so young, I was like, Oh wow, that's cool. I don't know.
01:27:14
Speaker
I did not know that John Waters played the voice of Ted Bundy. I know, right? And her like what? So is it meant to believe that she had a cameo essentially from from Ted Bundy hidden in her tape collection? Basically, yes, essentially. Oh, it's so funny. Officers, life doesn't have to be ugly. See, look at the birds out there. Listen to their call. Ooey, ooey.
01:27:42
Speaker
But we she just keeps fucking going. It's amazing. Oh, I wanted to point out one thing. So the one woman who eats chicken badly. Oh, God, the chicken eating. That's what sickened me the most. And in this watch. Oh, she's watching Wheel of Fortune. Were you able to solve the puzzle? What was it?
01:28:03
Speaker
Opposites attract. That was the that was the puzzle. I am an avid. I am an avid wheel watcher. I hope to be on one day. My sister was on it once. You can do it, too.
01:28:15
Speaker
Yeah. But and then the one part that I was like, wait, I don't know what's going on or why this is is literally Mr. Pickles. Like when he's in the swap meet bathroom, Mr. Pickles is weird. There is a glory hole for sure. And what is Mr. Pickles right on the glory hole? Eat me. What?
01:28:43
Speaker
And then I forget what he writes in the in the courthouse bathroom stall. But what is this character? Mr. Pickles is a deranged man guarantee you somebody from John Waters life was Mr. Pickles for fucking sure without a fucking doubt. I also like that Ricky Lake's character, the daughter, that her job is to sell things at the swap meet.
01:29:09
Speaker
which I was like. And the shit that she sells, including a talking Pee-Wee Herman doll in the box, which by the way, everyone, I have two of those right now with me because I was obsessed with Pee-Wee Herman. They are in my house, bitch. And doesn't her like, her like potential date, doesn't he's like, oh, but he's such a weirdo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we miss you, Pee-Wee Herman. My Franklin Mitt Faberge egg.
01:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, very 90s Franklin mint for a second. So the girl that is with Ricky Lake's crush at the swap meet, I had to Google it because I was like, is that Rebecca DeMornay? But it's not. But she looks just like Rebecca. Now that you say that she does look like her.
01:29:57
Speaker
Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's, I mean, that's serial mom. It's not to be taken heavily. It's meant to just kind of be fun and be a little salacious. If you take any John Waters film heavily, I think you're doing it wrong. Like John Waters is out to create things that are fun, that you laugh at, that gross you out and that like take you on a little fun journey.
01:30:20
Speaker
All the while, I do think subversively exposing you to the weird sides of life and getting more used to it. And that's the brilliant thing about what John Waters does out of anything is he makes the weird more normal. And I think he does it exquisitely. Serial amount is one of my absolute favorites from John Waters. It might actually be my favorite, to be honest with you.
01:30:46
Speaker
And it's just, it's, it's wonderful. And it's fucking funny, Dottie Hinkle, you fucking pussy face. It's between this and Cecil be demented for me. Totally. I don't know. I can't check her, but Parker is good too. Parker's good. Yeah.
01:31:01
Speaker
Um, so here at Friday, the 13th horror podcast, we judge on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. Maddie, what do you give cereal? I give it a solid six and I say it's one of the absolute best. I love this fucking movie and nothing will ever be the first Dottie Hinkle phone call. Cocksucker.
01:31:23
Speaker
I gave it a five and a half and I said, horror comedy done right and with a little bit of sleaze. And also I just want to say, welcome to the show, John Waters. We hope you'll come back. Oh, he will. Welcome to the show, Kathleen Turner. Love you. Yes. Please, please come back more, Kathleen. Folks, that does it for Serial Mom. Take a break. We'll be right back with our next film. Something very different for you. Very different. Mama.
01:32:04
Speaker
Victoria and Lily were found in deplorable conditions. Their parents gone alone in the wilderness for at least five years. Hey, Victoria. How they survived is unexplainable. I'm your daddy's brother. Remember, he called home. With a loving family environment, Victoria and Lily have a real chance at a normal life. You sure about this? Nope.
01:32:31
Speaker
Hey, girls. Mama. Amanda Bell, you can call me that. Or whatever you'd like. Mama. There's no way these girls are ready for this. And there is no way that I am ready for this. How have they been affected? They talk to the cops. And what did they say? Mama. They'll get better. Promise. You like that?
01:33:13
Speaker
The bad's gonna happen to me. You can't do that. I think someone's coming to visit them.
01:33:36
Speaker
A ghost is an emotion bent out of shape, condemned to repeat itself time and time again. Where is she now? Is she here in this house? Mama, stop it! You promised! Who is Mama Victoria?
01:34:13
Speaker
It ain't Papa, it's Mama. Andrew, tell us all about Mama. A mother's love is forever. Guillermo del Toro presents Mama, a supernatural thriller that tells the haunting tale of two little girls who disappeared into the woods the day that their parents were killed. Well, isn't that?
01:34:32
Speaker
Yeah, kind of. Very darker story there, but we're talking about it. When they are rescued years later and begin a new life, they find that someone or something still wants to come tuck them in at night. Directed by Andy Muschietti, written by Andy and Barbara Muschietti, who we just learned are brother and sister, and also written by Neil Cross. Production company and distribution were handled by Universal. Annabelle is played by Jessica Chastain in a horrible wig.
01:35:00
Speaker
Luke and Jeffrey are both played by Nikolai Koster Waldo. Victoria is played by Megan Carpenter. Lily is played by Isabel Nellisay and Nellie. Yeah, sure. Dr. Dreyfus is played by Daniel Cash and Mama is played body by Javier Baudette, but is voiced by Laura Gutierrez and Melina Matthews.
01:35:27
Speaker
And then also played by Hannah Cheeseman when she's in her, quote unquote, beautiful mama. Yeah, there were. It takes a village to play mama. Seriously. Rated PG-13. This comes in at 100 minutes. It was made in Canada, Spain. I'm sorry, wait. Canada, Spain and Mexico. Oh, wow.
01:35:47
Speaker
I released on January 18th of 2013, which I thought this movie was way later than 2013. I didn't too. Budget was $15 million and this buddy poured in about $148 million, so shocking that we don't have Mama 2 at this point, but we do have It, which is also Andy Muschietti.
01:36:10
Speaker
Maddie, had you seen Mama before and what are your thoughts? We may have seen this movie together, I don't remember. It's a question I'm glad you asked right away because, well, what am I kidding? It's a question we always ask right away. But anyways, I was thinking of it when I turned it on because I remember distinctly my brother sending me the trailer for it way back in the day because he was like, oh my God, this looks so fucking scary. Look at this.
01:36:34
Speaker
And I remember going, oh wow, that does look really scary. And I can't remember seeing it in the theater, though I may have, but I know I saw it before. What was interesting, I just know that I did. I may have seen it with you, I may have watched it with some other people, I don't know, but I know that I watched it. But what was interesting was that in watching it again, I couldn't really remember it.
01:36:58
Speaker
And I didn't recall these things, which is sort of, I don't know, I just thought, oh, that kind of says something about the movie. And I think, you know, the movie is very dark. It's extremely different than Serial Mom that we just talked about. We're talking about apples and fucking, like, I don't know, fucking steak. Very, very different. Very dark, very, very, very sullen. I think overall the movie is good.
01:37:24
Speaker
And what do I really mean by that? I mean, like, I don't really enjoy the movie. I just think, like, yeah, there's a good story behind it. There's some really great jump scares and some good spooky parts to this for sure. There's a bit of good acting. You're absolutely right. Jessica Chastain's wig is fucking awful. Like, it's very, very odd. It's distracting. It is. And it's almost like I just don't want her to play the role. I don't know. It's like she was miscast or something. I'm not sure.
01:37:51
Speaker
Oh, and then I just realized that he cast her in it, too. Oh, oh, yeah, that's right. Oh, crazy. But I don't know. In general, what I think is that the movie just has an awful lot going on. And I what is it? It's 100 minutes long. You know, so it's an hour 40. I guess like they're as economical as they can be with the story. But there's just a lot fucking happening. And I think maybe that was a little too distracting for me, to be honest, on this watch.
01:38:19
Speaker
And I and the fact that I didn't remember it from the first watch very well, I don't know. Yeah, I'm old now. My memory is not the best in the world, but like I should have remembered some parts of it and I really didn't. I don't know that some parts that bothered me. It did kind of bother me that Nikolai Kosterwaldo played both roles. I just thought that was kind of weird. Like I didn't mind seeing him, though.
01:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, but like, I mean, it would have been fine with me like if it if like if Jeffrey had been played by somebody else and he played Luke like that. It is kind of weird. I don't really see the need for it except for the part where Victoria is like, oh, daddy, like she like obviously they look kind of alike.
01:38:59
Speaker
Um, which I get it, you know, brothers kind of tend to look alike if you share that much DNA. So I understand that, but I don't know. It's didn't really, it didn't really hit for me. Um, I think Jessica Chastain did a fine job. I just think maybe it could have been played by somebody else that they were looking for that edginess of like a rocker. Um, Jessica Chastain just doesn't have that. That's just, that's just not who she is. So I don't know. Maybe that could have been played by somebody else. The kids, I think we're good. Um, and
01:39:26
Speaker
Mama was, was genuinely fucking spooky. I mean, it's, it's weird. Um, I really enjoyed the, um, the part where the, uh, what's his fucking name? Um, not the bounty hunters, but the people who were searching for the girls when they, when they, when they finally do go into that house and they find the girls, I think that's exceptionally well done. Like there is where they're skittering around the house. And like, listen,
01:39:50
Speaker
anything that skitters in a horror movie is going to freak you fucking out. Like it's going to get you. And like that got me for sure. And like the way that they the movement, the way that all that was done, that was really, really good. I thought, you know, I read ahead and read your your main takeaways, Andrew.
01:40:08
Speaker
I and like not to spoil yours but like I would agree it's a sad movie like I mean the story of what happens to like the actual mama whatever her real name is Edith I think might have been the name I think something like that something yeah something like that yeah the the story of how that all occurs is really sad and like there's you know there's like stories of ghosts like that like the ghosts who go
01:40:32
Speaker
like looking for their children or the ghost like what is that called in La Llorona La Llorona. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you or like Like the the widows who wait for their their man to return from sea, you know all that kind of shit Those are sad ghost stories like they're meant to be sad. They're meant to sort of haunt you They're meant to be haunting and this is I think another one of those for sure You know, I don't know a lot about like where they got the idea
01:40:58
Speaker
Do you from totally I can tell you good? Yeah, because I want to hear more about it. Like that, that that type of ghost story is really compelling to me, I would say. Yeah. So for me, this is a second time watch. I saw this definitely when it first came out. I think I want to say I saw it in the theater. I have a memory of seeing in the theater, not for sure. But I definitely wanted to see this movie based on kind of what you said. We saw the trailer. We're like, oh, that looks spooky. Yeah, sure.
01:41:25
Speaker
Um, and you know, me and Maddie, we would have been, you know, fresh into our friendship about, about, uh, two years. So maybe we didn't know each other's horror tastes by that time. Um, but I feel like we saw this together for some reason, but you know, we probably did. The only movie that I directly remember seeing with you in the theater because you annoyed me the whole time was as above. So below, and we'll get to that. I'm sure someday, Jesus, that movie.
01:41:53
Speaker
Wait, you know, you don't remember seeing Midsummer with me when I spit popcorn all over Bobby. Remember that? Oh, yeah, I do remember that. That's one of my favorite moments. And Dr. Sleep. Now that I'm thinking about it, Dr. Sleep was so good. Anyway, Mama, I remember thinking like I was really excited for Mama and maybe a little let down the first time I watched it. Yeah. I watched it this time. And like you said, I didn't remember a lot of it.
01:42:20
Speaker
Interesting. It was kind of like watching it again for the first time. I think overall this movie gets kind of maligned in a weird way like in a horror community. Do you think? Yeah, people don't like this movie for the most part. I think it's a solid movie. Do I think it's like an all-time top movie? No, but I think it's a pretty good movie for this era of filmmaking.
01:42:46
Speaker
And I think that what's interesting, and now that I kind of put two and two together, as soon as I saw Andy Muschietti's name as the director on the screen, as I was like, Oh, a lot of this gets woven into it, the new iteration of it, like the way that she moves and the way that things happen. Yeah.
01:43:06
Speaker
That's that's it. That's it. So if you liked it, chapter one, I can't say much for it, chapter two, but whatever. This is like the the the kernel that birthed to that movie, I think. But I think overall, I liked this movie. I actually think the kid actors are really good in it. I think Victoria does a really good job. I think Lily is a fucking insane animal. I don't ever want to be around that child ever.
01:43:34
Speaker
I think that everyone does a good job. I think that, you know, we kind of lose Luke halfway through the movie, which I understand is the crux, but like to get Annabelle to care about these kids. Like I get why, but like there is like a weird part where like Luke sees like a vision of his brother.
01:43:55
Speaker
saying like save my daughters. And that never really pays off. So I don't really know. It never pays off. Like I don't really get what that was. Like we already saved the children by going to the cabin and finding them. So I don't really understand if that was maybe meant to be earlier on in the movie or what, but that part I didn't understand.
01:44:17
Speaker
And I think that like, listen, do I think Jessica Chastain is like one of our one of our greats actors? Yes. Is this the movie for her? No, no, I really agree with that. I can't. I'm sorry. But like watching her play that bass guitar was like
01:44:34
Speaker
was nails on a chalkboard. I was like, this is not you, girl. It's like watching me do a triathlon. It's not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense. She just doesn't fit this role. I'm so sorry. And I don't really get what Luke does for a living because at one point the cop or the social worker or whatever says, and you draw pictures for a living. And I was like, so he's an artist? He's a
01:44:58
Speaker
Architect? What do you do? It doesn't make any sense. And so like, I don't know. There's like a dynamic with like the family that I kind of don't understand. And are we meant to believe that Luke and Jeffrey are twins or did they just look alike? See, that's that's the thing. If you're going to have them play the same, if you're going to have one actor play both, there better be a fucking reason for it. And right. There's there's really not.
01:45:23
Speaker
And i'll tell you what do you know i look at the letterbox reviews you are right people fucking hate this movie told you there is a guy named dirk h and dirk h says i apologize in advance for the swearing and caps lock typing but fuck this film and modern mainstream horror.
01:45:42
Speaker
I don't agree with the latter part of his sentence. And what does he say here? He says it's about as scary as being barked at by an old chihuahua without teeth. I don't agree with that. Apart from the obligatory very, very poor jump scares, Mama manages to evoke no atmosphere whatsoever. Completely disagree with that. I disagree. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's another thing. Pixels aren't fucking scary. OK, what happened here? Did the director get his hands on some cheap
01:46:08
Speaker
two for the price of one cgi when the ghost looks as fake as it does here and nothing considered from becoming more laughable than frightening if this is representative of what a good modern horror film must entail in the genre is well and truly fucked see it's those sort of like big huge.
01:46:25
Speaker
Swings pronouncements that I really find kind of gross like of course a dude wrote this Like it's just like come on dude like get number one get a grip on yourself It's one movie that you watched in the course of thousands and number two like I completely disagree I think that that they do a great job of creating atmosphere in this movie from I like the very beginning to be honest I
01:46:48
Speaker
Well, there's that shot of when Annabelle is like picking up laundry and you're a shot from down the hallway and Lily is playing in the bedroom of Victoria is like back in the back hallway and Annabelle is like picking up stuff. And so you can kind of see and Lily's you think Lily's playing with Victoria, but then all of a sudden Victoria shows up in the frame and you're like, who is Lily playing? I thought that that was really effective. Like, yeah.
01:47:14
Speaker
There's also another scene where Annabelle goes into the bedroom and she she like gets like frightened. She's like, oh, God, Lily, don't scare me like that. Yeah. And then like from down in the kitchen, Victoria yells, you know, breakfast is ready. You know, come on, Lily is hungry. And then you realize that's not Lily. I thought that those scares were all really effective. So like, I mean, look, I don't think this is the best horror film I've ever watched. No, absolutely not large. But I mean, like, look, do I think this is the worst one? Absolutely fucking not.
01:47:44
Speaker
I think that this one, I think it's middling, if I'm being honest, like, kind of right in the middle. And I think it does a lot of it does a lot of things well. And I, you know, look, I think to 2013 CGI, look, CGI always gets better, no matter what it is, it's always going to look dumb. If in retrospect, that's just how it is.
01:48:02
Speaker
I think the ghost looks spooky. I think that the ghost looks spooky enough. And in 2013, I certainly would have felt that for sure. You know, would there have been better ways to do it? Yeah, I imagine so. But they made that choice. And I think it largely works. And, you know, one thing I did think about, too, was that some of it looked a bit like a video game.
01:48:25
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like the ending looks like a video game to me for sure. Even even the way that it breaks off into credits at the end, it looks that way when the stabbing of the nun happens with the big needle. That part of the video game.
01:48:40
Speaker
And that part didn't work for me. But they gotta tell the story somehow. And once again, it's not my favorite movie. I don't know why I'm defending it so hard, probably because I just can't stand Dirk H's fucking review on Letterboxd.
01:48:55
Speaker
I mean, did it work all that well? Not really, but did it tell the story? Yeah, sure. I think the part for me that I can't fathom is that this guy, so this is the story.
01:49:10
Speaker
Basically what happens is Jeffrey is a partner at some sort of either startup or yeah, financial firm or whatever. And they were doing nefarious things. They got caught. So everything's like tanking at like the company. Well, I mean, it sounds like it was the 2008 crash. Yeah. And then this guy, so this guy then decides I'm going to shoot my business partners and kill my entire family, including myself.
01:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't quite, it doesn't quite make sense. He could have just killed himself. Right. And then, and then the other part that I can't fathom is that they go off of a main road. Like they go off of like a, like a two lane, like paved highway over one cliff and it takes them five years to find the car. Right. Sure. And, and not only that, I mean, they've, they've found the dude in misery faster for God's sake.
01:50:07
Speaker
Well, and not only that, Luke has been paying two men to search that area for five years. So, gotta say that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe if it would have been a year or six months or something, but five years? Five years is a bit of a story. Well, I mean like maybe four years with the story.
01:50:31
Speaker
that even that seems a bit long. I think that they had the makings of what could have been a really great story and they produced a middling film out of it, is how I feel. They didn't produce an awful one because they could have gone far worse than what they did, for fucking sure. Got to say this movie did make me jump at least three times.
01:50:53
Speaker
Yeah. And like, and that's just the thing. Like maybe, you know, I, and I don't know much about Andy Machete except that he also did it to be honest. So like, maybe this is the film where he learned that maybe this is the film where his sister, Barbara learned, learned a little bit more about writing and then brought it, pardon me, and then brought it into it. Um, that that's entirely possible. Well, I can tell you where the, the mama thing comes from. So I don't, so are you familiar with the movie lights out?
01:51:19
Speaker
Uh, yeah. I can't remember what happened to it right now, but I know I've seen it before. Yeah. So it kind of has similar, um, similar, uh, history as that movie is that there were, there was a period of time where people were just putting little short films on YouTube. Like they were just making little short films, maybe doing them at a couple of festivals and then they would upload them to YouTube or Vimeo or whatever. Sure. And mama was a basically like a two minute video. Okay.
01:51:46
Speaker
of essentially like that chase scene where she's like, don't look at her. She's she's mad. And then, oh, wow. Mama chases her down the hallway. It was essentially that portion then. And then I'm guessing Andy Muschietti and his sister either made that or stumbled upon it. And then that's kind of where this all started. And then they made the whole story around just that little short of just that little frightening clip.
01:52:11
Speaker
That's crazy. So I mean, I don't know. And then and then they wrote Ma. Yeah. No, that's a completely different book. Sorry. But no, I just think that this movie, I give it another chance because I don't think it's as bad as what people remember.
01:52:29
Speaker
I don't know. I would agree. Look, am I going to watch this a bunch? No. Would I maybe watch it again, though? Yeah, I think I probably would, to be honest. I did like at the beginning that we get the once upon a time. So it's kind of meant to be like a fairy tale, almost. Yeah.
01:52:48
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I liked it. I liked it more than I remember liking it. So whatever. And then and then and then at the end, we get the fucking death of Lily. We don't save both children, which is which is like pretty dark because, you know, as I was watching it last night and then a little bit more again this morning, I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, you really do. Dark editing. You don't expect that to actually be how it's going to happen, but that's how it goes down. That's it.
01:53:16
Speaker
And also, about Lily, Isabel Nelis can't speak English, which is why she's not given much dialogue. There you go. Mama's appearance was inspired by a painting by Amadeo Modigliani that is actually owned by Andy Muschetti. So they must be fucking rich, by the way.
01:53:36
Speaker
The same visual was used again a few years later as the painting comes to, oh, that's right, as the painting that comes to life, A Terrorized Young Stan, in it, chapter one. That makes a lot of sense. I did not even think about that, but that is completely correct. Also, the curator of the archives describes a ghost as an emotion bent out of shape, barely human, condemned to repeat itself.
01:54:01
Speaker
This is almost word for word how the main characters define ghosts in The Devil's Backbone from 2001 and Crimson Peak from 2015, both movies directed by Guillermo del Toro, the latter also starring Jessica Chastain. Del Toro provided much of the financing of the film, having read the story by the director and quite keen on supporting upcoming talents.
01:54:26
Speaker
Oh, I did. Now that you say when you said that quote, I was like, oh yeah, I did want to say that the true hero of this movie is really the records keeper. Yeah. I mean, look, I would say this too. If it's good enough for Guillermo del Toro, it's good enough for me. Right. Yeah. Andrew, speaking of that, how good was it for you?
01:54:43
Speaker
So yeah, I gave this a four and a half and something I didn't hit on. And I will in my main takeaway is I think it's a title story that's equally scary as it is sad. And then what I didn't say in my review, which I should have alluded to, but I think a little too much as it revealed too early as far as like I get that. Yeah.
01:55:03
Speaker
Um, but I still jumped and that, you know what? I enjoyed it. Whatever. Cool. I gave it a four and I said, I'd seen it previously, but forgot. And even as I watched it again, that kind of says something to me. It's okay, but there's so much going on. I wish the filmmakers had been a little bit more economical. So that is mama folks. Our final film of the episode. We'll be right back to close out the show with our game hookup hack up or shack up.
01:55:33
Speaker
Oh, God, I love this game. Fuck, kill, marry. Let's do this. Okay. I'm gonna kill RuPaul right now. No, kidding. I'm gonna marry RuPaul because she has all the money. Well, folks, that does it for episode 121 of Friday the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we go, we have a game that Andrew will explain to us right now.
01:55:57
Speaker
Yeah, we haven't played this one in a while, but I thought it'd be fun to bring it back. This is our version of Kill, Fuck, Mary. It's called Hook Up, Hack Up, or Shack Up. So obviously, we choose one to hook up with, one to kill slash hack up, and then one to marry slash shack up.
01:56:16
Speaker
So Maddie, we have two casts to choose from here, and I want you to tell me, from Serial Mom, who are you gonna hook up, hack up, or shack up with between Scotty, played by Justin Whalen, Chip, played by Matthew Lillard, and Eugene, played by Sam Waterston. Oh, this is tough, isn't it? Okay, I'm going to...
01:56:46
Speaker
And this is them from that era, I will say. I'm gonna hook up with Scotty. It's kind of cute. I'm going to hack up Eugene, Sam Waterston, and I'm gonna shack up with Chip. That will seem like solid decisions to me. What about you?
01:57:08
Speaker
I am going to hook up with Matthew Lillard slash chip because that tongue, though, you know, you know, yeah. Uh huh. Amen, girl. I'm going to hack up Scotty. Just just not not my type. Fair enough. And I'm going to shack up with Daddy Eugene, your dad, and Waterston, because he is really cute in that. Check up, check up with your daddy. OK, now, Andrew from Mama.
01:57:34
Speaker
Will you be hooking up, hacking up, or shacking up with Dr. Dreyfus, played by Daniel Cash, Lucas, played by Nikolai Kosterwaldo, or Mama, played by Javier Botet? All right, this one's a little tougher.
01:57:52
Speaker
You know what? I am going to hook up with mama because she moves in all those crazy ways. She's got them moves. I'm going to hack up Dr. Dreyfus because I don't need anyone psychoanalyzing me like the way he does in this movie.
01:58:11
Speaker
And I'm gonna shack up with Lucas slash Jeffrey because that would be a nice face to wake up to every day. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm going to hook up with Mama also just because Mama gonna be crazy and give me something to think about.
01:58:28
Speaker
You know what I mean? It'll be a story. It's going to stick with me. I'm going to, I think we're doing the same thing. I'm going to hack up Dr. Dreyfuss because he ugly. And then, I mean, he just is, I'm sorry. And I'm going to check up with Lucas because he's really the only option.
01:58:43
Speaker
Like, I don't have a lot of other options here, to be honest. I think we made sound decisions there, don't you? Yeah, absolutely. You know, what we say here is the Bible, so... Yeah, got it. What it is. If you don't like it, you're going to hell. Andrew, that was episode 121 of Friday the 30 Torah Podcast. Before we let these fine folks go on about what their day, once again, you'll be hearing this, of course, a week after Mother's Day, but hope you had a great Mother's Day, especially if you are a mama.
01:59:12
Speaker
And a couple other things for you. Listen, if you want to support us, you can. We are an independent podcast. We're really proud of that. We rely on the support of our listeners. And there's a very easy way that you can support us. There's two easy ways. Number one, you can go to our website.
01:59:31
Speaker
where you can either buy merch, that's there, and you can also become a patron on Patreon. You can do both of those things by going to www.frygay13.com slash support, and you'll find links for those things there. If you want to become a patron on Patreon, you can join us in the group chat, which is so much fun, but you can join for as little as a dollar a month, which is pretty, I think it's pretty cheap.
01:59:55
Speaker
$12 a year in this economy. I think that you can you can afford it. But look, if you're already a patron, that's that's cool. Andrew, what could they do instead of becoming a patron?
02:00:07
Speaker
Yeah, if you don't have the financial wares or the energy to become a patron, we totally get it. But what you can do is look down at your phone right now and look at, oh, what am I playing this on? Am I playing it on Spotify? Am I playing it on Apple podcasts? Am I playing it on GoodPods? Where am I playing this? Oh, there's a leave the review button. Leave a review.
02:00:32
Speaker
Um, we only accept five star reviews. Unfortunately, sorry, if you're going to leave anything else, you can probably just skip it. But if you want to leave a five star review and leave us a little message there, we will be sure to shout you out on the show. And honestly, we deserve it because we've been here for six, we've been here for six and a half years entertaining your ear balls.
02:00:54
Speaker
You need to just go ahead and leave a review. So thank you do it now. And of course, the other thing that everyone is required to do, Andrew, two day or tonight, but within within 24 hours from hearing this or you will get killed probably is you need to go and get laid.